Digital Social Hour – Episode #960: "Why Tech CEOs Are Walking Backwards (Science Explained)" with Ben Patrick, the Knees Over Toes Guy

Release Date: December 8, 2024

Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Ben Patrick (Knees Over Toes Guy)

Introduction

In Episode #960 of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly sits down with Ben Patrick, popularly known as the "Knees Over Toes Guy." Ben shares his transformative journey from a youth plagued with chronic knee pain to becoming a renowned fitness expert advocating for unconventional training methods. This episode delves deep into the science behind backward movement, the stagnation in fitness advancements, and the broader implications of a sedentary lifestyle fueled by modern technology.

The Stagnation of Fitness Advancements

Chronic Health Decline: Ben begins by highlighting the concerning decline in overall health over the past six decades. He states, "The overall health is definitely gone down over these past 60 years" (01:20). This decline is attributed to a combination of factors, including reduced physical activity and increased reliance on technology.

Impact of Sedentary Lifestyles: Discussing the allure of modern technology, Ben remarks, "Entertainment technology these days is, like, really good... reasons not to be moving our bodies" (01:36). The shift towards a corporate lifestyle and increased screen time have significantly reduced daily physical activity, contributing to deteriorating health metrics.

Ben Patrick’s Personal Journey and Philosophy

Early Struggles with Knee Pain: Ben shares his personal battle with chronic knee pain starting at age 12 due to intense basketball training. By 18, he underwent major knee surgery and struggled into his twenties without achieving milestones like dunking a basketball.

Discovery of Backward Movement: In his twenties, Ben stumbled upon backward walking combined with resistance training, which proved pivotal in alleviating his knee pain. He explains, "Every step you take, your knee is over your toes. And I've kept obsessing on that for really, when I was 18 is when I first found that" (05:14).

Knees Over Toes Training: Ben emphasizes the benefits of "knees over toes" movements, challenging longstanding fitness myths. He asserts, "If you learn how to train with your knees over your toes without working through pain, it's like a cheat code for jumping higher and protecting your knee" (06:03).

Innovations in Training: Backward Movement and Equipment

Backward Treadmill Development: Addressing common questions, Ben introduces his backward treadmill, designed to facilitate backward walking with resistance. He explains, "After a decade of answering that question, yeah, I make a treadmill now that someone can have at home" (03:48).

Benefits of Backward Movement: Ben elaborates on the physiological advantages of backward movement:

• Different Muscle Stimulation: "It's stimulating your foot differently. It's stimulating your lower leg muscles differently" (04:21).
• Knee Health: "When you go backward, it is almost like a rehab for forward activities... less pain, more ability forward" (04:49).

Overcoming Traditional Fitness Myths

Challenging "No Knees Over Toes": Ben criticizes traditional fitness teachings that discourage knees-over-toes movements without substantial evidence. He states, "It was just an incorrect assumption" (06:10) and highlights that historical practices, like those of Arnold Schwarzenegger, naturally incorporated such movements without explicit instruction.

Scientific Reevaluation: While acknowledging the past lack of long-term studies, Ben advocates for evidence-based approaches that incorporate knees-over-toes training, emphasizing its benefits for longevity and athletic performance.

Training Methodology and Lifestyle Integration

Full-Body Workouts: Ben prefers full-body training sessions, typically averaging three workouts a week. He shares, "I start at the bottom, like, start down at the ankle, work my way up, and like, finish with a set of upper body exercises" (17:06). This approach contrasts with the common split routines and underscores his philosophy of holistic fitness.

Accessibility and Scalability: Emphasizing that effective training doesn't require expensive equipment, Ben promotes bodyweight exercises and offers affordable coaching services. He mentions, "You can train full body from the ground up" (18:35), making fitness accessible to a broader audience.

Impact on Athletes and Rehabilitation

Training Professional Athletes: Ben has trained numerous professional athletes, helping them enhance performance and reduce injury rates. Discussing basketball specifically, he notes, "The nature of our sport is a ton of force on the knee... the ability in the knee is now just so much more than the demand on it" (15:58).

Injury Prevention and Recovery: Ben addresses common injuries like ankle sprains, explaining their long-term impact and the importance of strength training through flexibility for prevention. He advises, "Full range of motion strength training for the ankle" (21:06).

Educational Outreach and Community Impact

Educating Parents: A significant focus of Ben's mission is educating parents to lead by example, thereby influencing their children’s fitness habits. He states, "My life's work now is all about taking these concepts and making it a smooth scale so that if you're the parent, what you're doing, your kids can naturally follow" (25:35).

Global Influence: Ben observes the global adoption of his methods, sharing anecdotes like, "I see a guy two days ago, walking backward... He saw it off my YouTube" (31:20), illustrating the widespread reach of his training philosophy.

Mental Resilience and Social Perceptions

Overcoming Social Judgments: Ben discusses the mental benefits of exercising against societal norms, such as walking backward. He reflects, "You get some mental gains from doing something for yourself that you have the desire to do, even though the mainstream might look at you funny" (32:07).

Building Confidence: By pursuing unconventional training methods, individuals develop resilience against external judgments, fostering a stronger sense of self and commitment to personal health goals.

Success Stories and Real-World Applications

Transformative Results: Listeners share impactful stories, including one where Sean Kelly's mother overcame torn meniscus issues without surgery through Ben's regimen. Ben responds, "That's awesome, dude... That means that the recovery process would be a little bit better" (38:28).

Family Fitness: Ben highlights the benefits of training multiple generations, describing how his 70-year-old mother became an active, sprinting grandma capable of engaging energetically with her grandchildren. He states, "She's a super grandma now... they're just running up because she's given me a break" (33:09).

Philosophy on Success and Purpose

Prioritizing Helping Over Profit: Ben emphasizes that his primary goal is to help others improve their health rather than maximizing profit. He explains, "If I wanted to make money... I would have been selling a joint supplement" (11:00).

Purpose-Driven Life: Ben believes that having a clear purpose enhances life quality and longevity. He articulates, "You've put a lot of energy on... making a difference" (12:16), aligning with his mission to educate and empower individuals through fitness.

Future Aspirations and Broader Impact

Aiming for Public Health Improvements: Ben aspires to see broad improvements in public health metrics, such as increased youth fitness levels. He envisions a future where "more youth be able to do a pull up than today" (30:14).

Educational Reform: Advocating for integrated fitness education, Ben suggests that schools incorporate scalable fitness programs that cater to all ages and abilities, fostering lifelong healthy habits.

Conclusion

In this enlightening episode of Digital Social Hour, Ben Patrick challenges conventional fitness paradigms, advocating for the incorporation of backward movements and holistic training methodologies to enhance physical health and longevity. His dedication to educating parents and athletes alike underscores a commitment to transforming public health through accessible, evidence-based practices. Ben's journey from chronic pain to athletic prowess serves as an inspiring testament to the power of innovative training and purposeful living.

Notable Quotes

• Ben Patrick: "The overall health is definitely gone down over these past 60 years." [00:22]
• Ben Patrick: "If you learn how to train with your knees over your toes without working through pain, it's like a cheat code for jumping higher and protecting your knee." [06:03]
• Ben Patrick: "She’s a super grandma now... they’re just running up because she’s given me a break." [33:09]
• Ben Patrick: "Most people are really good people and if they even do get into some reason you dislike them, there's probably reasons for that." [39:18]
• Ben Patrick: "It's like a continuum. I do a lot of strength training through my flexibility... it's like enough that the same thing isn't a problem now." [36:47]

Resources Mentioned

• Ben Patrick's Coaching Services: atgonlinecoaching.com
• Social Media Platforms: Instagram, YouTube, Threads on X

This summary captures the essence of the conversation between Sean Kelly and Ben Patrick, highlighting the key discussions on fitness innovation, personal transformation, and the broader societal implications of sedentary lifestyles.