← Digital Social Hour
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- [00:00]
A
Dana has gone on record as to saying that, like, hey, when once a fighter starts making a lot of money, like, they don't have that same kind of oomph in their training. They don't dedicate themselves the way they can, and big money has killed this sport.
- [00:12]
B
But, like, do you agree with that?
- [00:14]
A
The last month and a half of my camp against BJ was like, the worst training I've ever had. Like, I just didn't have anything. Like, guys that I would play with in sparring were, like, beating me, and I'm like, what is going on? Obviously, it comes down to the motivation of the individual at the end of the day. And what are they fighting for? Are they fighting for money? Are they fighting for respect? Are they fighting for legacy?
- [00:42]
B
Okay, guys, we got Kenny here at the bitcoin conference. He's speaking here, meeting for the first time. Thanks for coming on, man.
- [00:48]
A
Thanks for having me, man. Yeah.
- [00:49]
B
How long you been in crypto for?
- [00:51]
A
Let's see. I've been in Bitcoin since 2016, so pretty early. Been at it a little bit. Yeah. And it's been great to see kind of the evolution of everything. And, yeah, it's. It's changed a lot since then as well. And, you know, I wasn't even one of the early, early ones, but I'm glad I got in when I did.
- [01:10]
B
Sixteen is kind of that first wave, I feel like. Right?
- [01:12]
A
Yeah, maybe second. Second. Ish. Maybe, yeah. I think what. It started 2009. It was kind of unleashed into the wild. So probably, Maybe, Yeah. Class of 2016, probably. Yeah, maybe second generation, maybe.
- [01:25]
B
Were you. Were you fighting at that time?
- [01:26]
A
I was not, no. So I retired in, let's see, 2011.
- [01:31]
B
So that's.
- [01:31]
A
Gosh, it feels like time ago, and it was. But, yeah, 2011.
- [01:37]
B
So five years. And then you found out about it. Now athletes are getting paid.
- [01:41]
A
Yeah, I know. I wish I found out about it in 2011. That'd be nice. I certainly heard about it before then, but I, you know, disregarded it. And I thought I was like, ah, no, there's no way that's gonna work, or, you know.
- [01:51]
B
But what sold you over ultimately?
- [01:53]
A
You know, I think really obviously educating myself over time. I eventually bought some, bought a little bit.
- [02:06]
B
And back then, you had. It was sketchy. Right.
- [02:08]
A
It was harder to do it too. And I remember, like, I had money tied up in real estate and stuff like that. I was always trying to invest and thinking about the future. So whatever money I had left over, I was trying to put it into other things. Had heard of bitcoin. Didn't really delve too much into it. I was living in Los Angeles at the time. I had a buddy who was like, dude, you really like this? There's this thing called bitcoin. It just went down to, like, 70 bucks. You should buy it. And I dragged my feet, you know, didn't really learn about it until later on. And then 2016, I bought some. I bought some other crypto as well. Like, did like, half bitcoin and half something else. And then I. I maybe checked it, like, a few weeks later, and I was like, that's. I didn't buy that much. And I was like, oh, no, it went up. It went up a lot. Whoa, that's crazy. And I think I bought a lot. Not a lot, but I bought more at that point. And then kind of set goals over time of how much I wanted to accrue, and then that number just kind of got bigger over time. And, you know, I would always get nervous because I would buy inevitably, like, when it was going high, and I was like, yeah, cool, I'm going to buy some more. And like, oh, my gosh, it went down a bunch. So it was obviously a roller coaster ride, like a lot of bitcoiners have experienced, and just kept educating myself more and more, whether it's listening to podcasts and watching a bunch of videos on YouTube and kind of learning about it. And I think as a fighter, you're kind of always managing risk. And I think a lot of what we do in the world, no matter what realm you're in, it comes down to, like, navigating the world.
- [03:52]
B
Yeah.
- [03:53]
A
And that can be tricky, and that can be tough, and that can be scary sometimes. So as a fighter, I think with my background, it's like, I'm always thinking of ways of, like, all right, how can I be hurt? Right. Who has leverage over me? You know, what are the kind of risks that I pose? And, of course, valuing your time. And, you know, I busted my ass to. To be a professional fighter and to be as successful as I could, and. And, you know, how do I preserve that? How do I have assets that are going to go up in relation to inflation or what's going on in the world? And how do I, you know, insulate and protect my family, my future, things like that? So I. I guess I kind of saw it in that lens, and whoever was able to kind of communicate that in varying ways, you know, educated me a lot and helped me a lot. So it just gave Me that much more confidence and conviction and what I was doing, I guess.
- [04:53]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like risk mitigation for you was a strength, because as a fighter, you were known for your defense, right?
- [04:57]
A
I tried, yeah. Like, I, you know, I guess I'm very critical of myself, so if I look at fights, I'm just, like, cringing the whole time.
- [05:06]
B
Yeah.
- [05:06]
A
You're like, what was I doing? What was I thinking? You know, because I do have a passion for wanting to improve at what I do. You know, I, you know, maybe obsessively, but I guess the one thing I was proud of was my defense. I think some thing that I saw was like, I guess I was like, the top 10 best defensive fighters in UFC history or something. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. I don't remember, but I take pride in that because, you know, I also felt like I wasn't the most boring fighter either. So if I can manage, you know, being aggressive, trying to win, and also being defensively sound, I think that's super important. I think a lot of MMA fighters like, to their credit, like, and it's paradoxical because many times, you know, it's like, our toughness can also be our weakness.
- [05:56]
B
Right.
- [05:57]
A
You know, so it's like, I'm just going to go chin first and just throw down with that dude. Just like, well, that may work in, like, 2016, but by the time 2018 comes around, it's like you have no chin left. So, you know, mitigating risk and, and figuring out what are the things that are going to allow me to, you know, sustain what I'm doing and also be healthy later on in life, which is pretty important. It's like, I see a lot of fighters who have accrued a lot of damage over the years, and they are definitely not the same when they started.
- [06:31]
B
Scary, terrible, honestly.
- [06:33]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's tough.
- [06:34]
B
They're not all the way there, dude.
- [06:35]
A
Absolutely, it's tough.
- [06:37]
B
Yeah, it's tough. And it's an interesting balance, Right, because to be defensive doesn't necessarily sell fights.
- [06:42]
A
Right.
- [06:42]
B
So are you thinking that when you're
- [06:44]
A
in there, you know, a little bit. I, I, I think my nature is to try to be aggressive, but I also learned that perhaps the, the best superpower one could have is to be unkillable. You know, it's like, even if I have no offensive abilities, if I had unlimited lives, like a video game, or if you couldn't kill me, you know, I could potentially go into a bank and get, you know, people are shooting me, and I'm Just like walking out of the bank with all the money and go on to live another day. So, yeah, so, you know, I saw it in those terms of like, how do I not die first? And then what can I do to expose certain, certain vulnerabilities and then bring my offense to Debar?
- [07:33]
B
You know, Was there any fighter that you couldn't figure out that you went up against?
- [07:37]
A
Yeah, for sure. I mean, and a lot of it, it's like you have your best hopes and dreams to do certain things, but then there's certain things that you just don't account for or simply weren't ready for, or weren't able to develop your skills to a certain level to achieve what you wanted to achieve. So guys like BJ Penn, guys like Jose Aldo, you know, I had three fights in the UFC for the belt, two at lightweight, one at featherweight, and that was a nut I couldn't crack. You know, whether it was my skills weren't up to par, whether it was my experience wasn't up to par, whether it was bad luck, injuries, you know, there's so many ways to win and lose in the sport. There's so many factors involved. So it's a tricky thing.
- [08:21]
B
Yeah, it's hard because you study all the film and maybe they adapt, maybe they change their whole totally completely. So you prepare for something that doesn't even happen.
- [08:28]
A
Totally. And, you know, I guess to my earlier point about, like, being ready for as many things as possible, you also have to assume that that person that you are going to fight in two months, a month, whatever it is, are going to bring something new that you may not expect. So you're constantly trying to develop skills. And the way I saw it was time was probably my biggest opponent because I. I was training all the time. Like, I didn't understand what fight camps were. I was just, like, training all the time. I didn't take any time off unless I was like, I had a really, really bad injury. I didn't take any time off because I knew that, like, that was going to be my edge on people. Was like, I. I need to prepare for things that I don't even know. So anyways. Yeah.
- [09:13]
B
Does that become a hindrance, though, when you're just fully going out, like, hard 24 7?
- [09:18]
A
Yes. I remember I had my tonsils out prior to the BJ Pen fight. I was, like, constantly getting sick and, like, had trouble breathing at night and got my ton tonsils out, had a tonsillectomy and like, two weeks later I was back training and I wasn't supposed to, but I was like, yeah, what do the doctors know? And I hit a wall, I think, maybe like a month and a half in. And the last month and a half of my camp against BJ was like, the worst training I've ever had. Like, I just didn't have anything. Like, guys that I would play with in sparring were, like, beating me, and I'm like, what is going on? And it was. It was such a mind f. And also, like, character track and all that stuff. And, you know, I. It was. It was a struggle. I was so excited to fight someone like BJ Penn, who I looked up to for so long, that I got overly excited and. And over trained. For sure. That was something that I didn't believe in. I was like, over training, whatever. Yeah. And I experienced it anyway and paid the price a little bit.
- [10:21]
B
Get away with it, right?
- [10:22]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Exactly. And. And you're getting older, and, like, there's certain limitations of the body. You know, you can only do so much, and how much do you want to save for the fight and how much do you want to save for your preparation? And it's not always a balance that I was able to figure out.
- [10:37]
B
Yeah, yeah. I know you went out the way you didn't want to, but are you pretty at peace these days with how everything played out?
- [10:42]
A
Yeah. Oh, for sure. You know, I think part of the reason why I did want to become a professional fighter was I did. Didn't want to look back on and go, oh, man, I wish I tried that, or I could have done this or I could have done that. So I'm happy, you know, with the amount of time that I was in the sport, and it's kind of been my M.O. whether it's Jiu jitsu or some other endeavor. Like, I. I get thrown into the fire very early on, and it's. It sucks because you have to learn some hard lessons. Like, my record probably would have been a lot better if I took my time to get into the ufc. I think I was, like, four fights and I was already in the ufc. That's super early. Super early. And so, you know, I. I made mistakes. You know, I had some failures along the way, but I also. It forced me to learn a lot faster, so I was able to progress, I think, faster than a lot of people, too. So, you know. You know, it's a. It's a give and take. Yeah.
- [11:38]
B
Enter with, I'd imagine, over 10 fights, right?
- [11:40]
A
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like when I fought Diego Sanchez on the Ultimate Fighter finale. I think he had like 15 professional fights, not including his amateur fights. And he had a bunch of amateur fights. I had like one amateur fight and I think three or four professional fights. So, you know, it's like, here you go, kid. You want to fight?
- [11:57]
B
Have fun?
- [11:58]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [11:59]
B
So I just went to Tough Enough last week and there was fights where, like, the guy was 100 and the guy was 0 and 3. And you could clearly tell there was just like, fight experience around victories.
- [12:08]
A
Yeah, it matters.
- [12:08]
B
So it matters a lot, right?
- [12:09]
A
For sure.
- [12:10]
B
Maintain your energy in the, in the arena.
- [12:12]
A
Definitely.
- [12:13]
B
We'll move on past fighting now. So after that you got. Was that when BattleBots started or was that later?
- [12:18]
A
So BattleBots, let's see. That must have been in and around 2015. Ish. Something like that. That's when we were on ABC. I think we did a couple seasons on ABC and then after that we had a little break and then moved to Discovery Channel after that. But yeah, so I think I've done seven seasons of. Of BattleBots.
- [12:41]
B
It's such a different world, too, something by that transition. It is.
- [12:44]
A
And, and it's also, yeah, like, it. There's a lot of similarities as well in how they prepare and how they build their robots and, and also, you know, maybe the, the different stylistic matchups and things like that and, and also like the, the. The common principles and concepts of like, physics and how that translates. Like, fighting is fighting at the end of the day, whether it's via robot or, you know, human on human. Yeah. So, yeah, it's interesting seeing that translation, but, you know, of course, like, the engineers and how they think and how it's like, next level stuff that I love getting a peek into their brains and how they're formulating their strategies and how they're building their robots. And it helps me, like, I'm still a martial artist at the end of the day. I'm always trying to learn and see how I can apply those things from other people, other successful people into what I do.
- [13:38]
B
Absolutely. So there's undefeated fighters. But what about robots? Has there been an unbeatable robot?
- [13:42]
A
Yeah, gosh, you know, Bite Force back in the day, Paul Ventimiglia, who's a buddy of mine now, had an unbelievable robot. I think he won two or three in a row, something like that. So. Yeah. And as far as. I don't think, like, if you're asking me generally, is there a bot that's unbeatable, I would say no, just because, well, they're changing all the time. Like to see where the bots were at when I started to where they're at now, like, it's just a completely different level. What, you know, whether you're talking about like going from brush motors to brushless motors and you know, the different types of steel that they're using now and magnets to be really grounded to the floor and like, there's so much stuff that they're doing now and you know, some successful, some not. And you know, it's so it's fascinating to see that evolution and how that changes. And you know, I'm sure, you know, whether you go from, you know, whether it's mixed martial arts or any of the combat sports to robots to, you know, whatever kind of global kinetic warfare is going on out in the world, you know, it is constantly evolving, constantly changing. And, and that's fascinating to me for sure.
- [14:59]
B
Yeah, My first taste of it was last year. I never saw the show, so I just went in person. Vegas, you guys have like a weekly thing, right?
- [15:05]
A
We do, yeah. So they, they have live shows now here in Vegas that I'm not a part of and they kind of have some of their lighter robots that are kind of ready to go. They have like a fleet of robots that they can kind of go out there and then they have other like individual competitions where, where teams will actually come out. And then they kind of have like the more high level things for whether it's YouTube or for television or streaming, well, where they will do like kind of a professional league or world championships and things like that. So it's, it's fun. It's really fun.
- [15:37]
B
It was a blast. I had no idea what was going on, but it was, it was cool.
- [15:41]
A
Yeah. Well, it's kind of like it brings out the kid in you because a lot of it is just kind of like mini car crashes. And to see it in person I think is more impressive than even watching on tv. Like on TV it's fun, obviously, but watching a live show, it gives you that kind of visceral feeling of what it's like to like see those impacts and how hard they're actually hitting with the sparks and all that stuff.
- [16:02]
B
So it's fun. There's some sparks.
- [16:04]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [16:04]
B
Bots were flying. Yeah. There's like things that are moving. The wheels.
- [16:10]
A
Yeah.
- [16:10]
B
Ran into that.
- [16:11]
A
Yep. Exact. The screws and the. Yeah, the hammers and all that stuff
- [16:14]
B
seem to struggle that day.
- [16:16]
A
Yeah.
- [16:16]
B
Is that, is that a meta right now? Is the low ones?
- [16:20]
A
I think so, man. I, I think that, you know, if you can win the low ground. And it's similar to, I guess, maybe the grappling realm, where if you can get underneath someone's center of mass, if you don't have stability to the floor, you don't have power. So a lot of it has to do with getting underneath someone better, whether it's utilizing, you know, low forks to the floor or, you know, a level change in wrestling, for example, where I'm getting in, double legging you and slamming you to the floor. It's like, well, your striking's not. Not going to do anything now. So it is fascinating. I love seeing the parallels between the two sports. Yeah.
- [16:55]
B
Have you ever design your own?
- [16:56]
A
No, I would. I. I am like. My dad is a. Is a physician. He's a surgeon or was. He's retired now. I didn't get that talent with my hands, so I've forced myself, I guess, over the last decade or so to try to be more hands on, whether it's any stuff around the house or doing work on my car or whatever. But it's. I make so many mistakes. So I'm not like, I definitely don't have a natural talent or. Yeah, I'm like, with my identity. Oh, dude. Yeah. Like, and I think. I hate to say this, but I do feel like certain engineers, or maybe a lot of engineers are kind of born, you know, whether their dads did it. It's like something in their genes where they're like, oh, let me take. Yeah, it's like, oh, let me take apart this camera or this phone. And like, they do it. And you're like, first time, like, I'm like, I don't know what that is. Like, I'll take it apart. I don't know how to put it back together.
- [17:53]
B
Some people don't even have to look at the manual when they get a table. They just know.
- [17:57]
A
Yeah. I'm like, how do you do that? Or construction stuff.
- [18:00]
B
Like, I need a video and I still need to rewind it.
- [18:03]
A
Right, right. I'm saying.
- [18:05]
B
Saying, like, I can't change a tire. It's. As a man, it definitely messes with you sometimes. My wife gives me shit for this, but, like, makes me feel kind of useless sometimes.
- [18:13]
A
Yeah.
- [18:13]
B
Well, that's.
- [18:14]
A
That's what kind of motivated me is like, man, I. I gotta. I gotta be able to do more dude shit, you know?
- [18:18]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [18:19]
A
But I mean, you could get better at it, so.
- [18:21]
B
Yeah, that's the ultimate dude right there. I feel like, you know.
- [18:24]
A
Yeah, there's that. That helps give me some Passes.
- [18:27]
B
But you still train at all. Are you pretty much done from that?
- [18:29]
A
So I, you know, speaking of injuries. So I. I had a really bad back injury. That's why I retired. So I had stem cell. I went to cpi, shout out to CPI in Mexico, and my back has felt significantly better. So losing weight again, working out again, and then hopefully in the next few weeks. I feel like I've been saying that for a while that now, but been doing physical therapy. I'm hoping in a few weeks I can get back to doing some jiu jitsu. So it's been a while, but I kind of had to take that time off to kind of recover because again, I'd be dumb and be like, I'm fine. Let me try it again. It's like my back would go out and then I'd do it again, again. So I just had to, like, take time away from doing anything for a while, which, you know, forced me to gain a lot of weight and test my patience. But now kind of getting back into it, it's. It's been good, and this is the best I've felt in a very long time. So the stem cell has worked on my back, and my knees have been feeling good, so I'm hoping I can get back to it. You know, I don't. I'm not going to be competing or anything like that or like, thinking I'm gonna, like, roll with, like, heavy weights and go hard. But I do want to be smarter about it when I get back. But, yeah, it's something I. I really, really miss. I.
- [19:37]
B
It was your lifestyle for a while.
- [19:38]
A
It was, man. So that's. It's hard. Like, I also feel like I need some kind of competitive outlet. I do competitive shooting now, which is a little much, much easier on my body, but I kind of need that. Like, I need to be working towards something. I feel like it, you know, it gives me meaning. It gives me something to work on and. And satisfies like, I don't know, maybe the add.
- [20:02]
B
Yeah.
- [20:03]
A
Yeah.
- [20:04]
B
How's the shooting work? Is that like the stuff you see on social media where you're. You have a timer and. Yeah.
- [20:08]
A
So it's. It's kind of like a race in that, you know, they set up a bunch of targets. Everyone kind of needs to. And everyone has the same rules. You start on a timer, and your last shot stops the timer. So there's strategy involved and memorization involved in knowing where the targets are, how you're going to execute your little plan that you have, and you're racing against, you know, I don't know, anywhere from 50 to, you know, 400 competitors and trying to beat everybody and you get, you know, the best shooters in the world.
- [20:43]
B
Keanu Reeves does this, right?
- [20:44]
A
Yeah, he does a little bit of that. Exactly. And it's so much fun. It's, it's, you know, there's a lot of little things. It's a martial art, really, and then at the end of the day, so there's a lot of little things you need to learn and get better at. So that's been fun learning that process. I just started about a little over a year ago, like maybe 13 months ago or something like that. But it's been, it's been a lot of fun. So, yeah, I've been traveling around doing that.
- [21:08]
B
Do you have to shoot the targets in a specific order or can you pick the order?
- [21:12]
A
So, yeah, I guess it's dependent on you. I mean, technically you don't have to shoot any of the targets, you just get penalized for it, you know, but it's. So it's. Yeah, you definitely have to shoot all the targets in, I guess, the most efficient order that you deem fit. So everyone may shoot it differently, but there's, in certain stages there's going to be better ways to do it than other ways. So it's kind of up to you what strategy you're going to employ. And yeah, it's fun. And then you get. So they basically base it on time and on hit factor. Like, so the hit factor is how fast you did it in or how slow you did it in and then the accuracy of the targets. So if you're sitting, if you're hitting center mass or if you're hitting outside of that, you get less points. Yeah, so it's like there's five points for center mass shots. There's three points for shots out there. If you're shooting minor. I don't want to get too technical and nerdy, but. And then there's one points if you're shooting like the edges of the target and then they, they calculate that versus the time and it's, you know, you compare it to everyone else in, in, in your bracket or in your division.
- [22:16]
B
How have you done so far?
- [22:17]
A
I've been doing good, you know, mixed results here and there. It's frustrating. I, I don't want to compare myself to like, you know, like other people that are just doing here. I'm like trying to compare myself against the best guys. So in that regard, I have a long way to Go. But, yeah, I try to be and I try to, like, all right, who are the best? Okay. That's where I need to go. But I guess given my time frame, you know, doing well, I guess, for. For the time that I put into it, I guess in the time that I've been competing. But I. I would like. You know, there's, like, different classes, too. Like, Grandmaster is the highest ranking you can get. And then there's.
- [22:55]
B
Yeah.
- [22:55]
A
Master A class, B class, C class, and D class. I'm class. So I'd like to get to a. A GM level eventually. But. Yeah, it's been fun, man. Yeah.
- [23:07]
B
Already in a year. Sounds fast. I don't know much about.
- [23:10]
A
It's pretty. I guess it's pretty fast. Yeah. But, you know, there's other guys. It's like. I had a Buddy who, in eight freaking matches, he's a former professional video gamer, Maxwell McNut. Shout out to Max. He made Grandmaster in eight matches.
- [23:25]
B
Damn.
- [23:25]
A
And he, like, wasn't shooting that long, like, so I think, you know, from playing video games, like, your vision gets super good and, like, super fast, and he trains like an animal, and, yeah. Achieved grandmaster in eight matches, which is, like, unheard of, especially in 2025, 26,
- [23:41]
B
I will say, like, video games, my parents really demonize them. I feel like that generation.
- [23:45]
A
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
- [23:46]
B
A lot of my skills I attribute to video games.
- [23:48]
A
Yeah.
- [23:49]
B
I was a big video gamer totally.
- [23:50]
A
And figure things out, figuring things out. And, like, you know, I think there's certainly value to that, for sure.
- [23:55]
B
The action speed is crazy.
- [23:57]
A
Yeah. Like, you should get into shooting, man.
- [23:59]
B
I might be decent.
- [24:00]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's. Once you learn the technique of a technique of it. I think that's maybe the most underrated or most misunderstood aspect of competitive shooting or shooting in general, is the value of your vision, of how quickly you can pinpoint a dot on the target and shoot it. Like. And once you trust your vision, it's like, man, the sky's the limit. Yeah, it's pretty cool.
- [24:25]
B
That's your main hobby right now. And I know you got the podcast, too.
- [24:27]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I do. I do the podcast with John Anick, who's, you know, the lead commentator for the ufc, and John and I have been going on, I guess, since 2015. Been doing it a long time. Yes. We got into the space pretty early, and. Yeah, we just talk fights all the time and been doing broadcasts for a while and.
- [24:45]
B
Yeah, 11 years of podcasting. That's rare company.
- [24:49]
A
Yeah, I guess. Yeah.
- [24:50]
B
Many that are still around for back then.
- [24:52]
A
We're glad we got in when we did and, you know, very thankful for. For the audience that we. And, yeah, keep staying at it, man.
- [25:00]
B
How do you feel about the current era of ufc? Like, you. Do you like this era? Do you like your. You might be biased to your era?
- [25:05]
A
Sure, yeah. No, great question. I think that it's changed significantly. I think, you know, like, so many things, there's trade offs where you're trying to grow a sport and make it as mainstream as possible, and then maybe in an attempt to do that, you put on a lot of fights. But then when you put on a lot of fights, it's harder for fans to maybe care about all of them all the time. And maybe it even confuses them as to, like, okay, what? Like, is this fight important? Is this fight important? Like, why do I care about this guy? And then Also for the UFC, it's like, how do they promote 700, 800 fighters? Yeah, there's a lot. Like, I think when I was fighting, I think there was like a few hundred. Wow. Now there's a lot. There might be even more than that. It might be a thousand fighters, but so there's a lot more weight classes, you know, obviously women fighting and women's divisions. And so it's. It's harder in a way, or I imagine it's more complicated in a way for them to give fighters the promotion maybe that they deserve. So it's harder, I think, in some ways for stars to emerge. So that's how I see it differently. Like, back then, it was maybe easier for the UFC to pick and choose, like, okay, this person might be a star, this person is a star. We can promote them, we can put our resources towards this. But when a company grows that quickly, I think. And again, I'm, I'm not like a. I don't own a massive company. I'm just, you know, this is. I'm speculating here, but I think that it's. It's challenge when you're that large of a company.
- [26:42]
B
I've seen this argument because the people were saying the White House card was kind of weak. They wanted bigger names on it.
- [26:47]
A
Right?
- [26:47]
B
And it's just.
- [26:48]
A
Yeah, and it's funny because, you know, I think Dana has. Has gone on record as to saying that, like, hey, when once a fighter starts making a lot of money, like, they don't have that same kind of oomph in their training. They don't dedicate themselves the way they can, and big money has killed this sport.
- [27:03]
B
But like, do you agree with that?
- [27:05]
A
It's possible. I, I think there's, there's an argument there that, I think there's some truth to that for sure.
- [27:10]
B
Logically, I could see it, not even just in fighting. I feel like with anything, if you make a ton of money, your drive is going to go down.
- [27:14]
A
It's, it's definitely possible. But I also think, you know, it's like that same argument can be applied to the UFC themselves. It's like, you did this, what, seven billion dollar, eight billion dollar deal with Paramount. Well, you don't have to put on all these great pay per views or you don't have to put on all these great fight nights. You can, you already have your money in your pocket. There's no incentive for you to stack these cards now. So, so anyways, and so I, I think both those arguments, I think there's certainly some truth or maybe a lot, a lot of truth to, to those arguments. I, but obviously it comes down to the motivation of the individual at the end of the day. And what are they fighting for? Are they fighting for money? Are they fighting for respect? Are they fighting for legacy? Are you fighting to be the, the best sports company in the world? Or are you just trying to make money and, you know, whatever, get your paychecks and, you know, pay the executives and I don't know, so, you know, or the shareholders. So it's, it's a tricky thing. You know, I don't have the answer, but that's just kind of what I see.
- [28:19]
B
Multiple reasons. Because, like, when you were fighting, the money wasn't as much, right?
- [28:22]
A
It definitely was not. You know, they're super early. Yeah, I was super early, you know, and I did okay. And I was lucky for, you know, the, the, I guess in my era, I did fine. But yeah, I mean, it's like, I guess if we were to compare what I did in the sport to other people that are in the sport that maybe haven't fought for belts or whatever, it's like they're making a heck a lot more money than I did.
- [28:43]
B
I mean, Shaq does this all the time. Yeah, the basketball player.
- [28:46]
A
Yeah.
- [28:46]
B
He looks at the center salaries now. They're making more than him. And he's like, yeah, that's crazy. Like, best center of all time.
- [28:51]
A
Exactly, exactly. So, you know, and that's a part of the deal, and Shaq is going to do just fine. But at the same time, you know, you could also argue maybe our money isn't worth what it used to be. But yeah, yeah, no, it's. It's totally different. Yeah, exactly. I hope.
- [29:06]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I went a little too hard on it.
- [29:10]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [29:11]
B
You still need some money.
- [29:12]
A
No, exactly. That's the thing. It's like you do want to. You do need some fiat to live.
- [29:17]
B
So I went through a dark phase where I was just like anti government. I mean, yeah, still I'm To a certain degree. But. Yeah, yeah, like, I don't want any cash, but you can't live like that.
- [29:24]
A
You can't. It's. It's tough anyway. It can be tough.
- [29:26]
B
Yeah, yeah, something. But yeah, it's crypto, the main thing. Investment for you right now.
- [29:30]
A
I think so. Yeah. You know, I have some real estate, but yeah, I think bitcoin has been solid. You know, I do have, you know, some stocks and things like that that I think are winners. But, you know, a lot of it is. Is bitcoin related for sure. So, you know, I think it. I guess, similar to when I got in the game in mixed martial arts. It's like, yeah, you made the right choice, but when is that going to pay off? You know, you have to be patient, you know, and. And I've learned, you know, from the martial arts and, you know, business and now shooting, it's like understanding, delayed gratification is. Can be a superpower.
- [30:08]
B
Yeah.
- [30:08]
A
And you kind of just have to be patient. As long as you have that conviction and that confidence in yourself and you kind of see things heading in that direction, then that's where you kind of have to sit on your hands a little bit. Just got to be patient.
- [30:20]
B
That's why I respect the early bitcoin guys because. Because they went through a lot.
- [30:23]
A
Yeah, man.
- [30:24]
B
And fud, or they call it totally bad news articles. And everyone was against them, the family, friends, media, absolutely through it. So I gotta respect it. Like, you deserve to make that money.
- [30:34]
A
100. I'm with you. Yeah.
- [30:36]
B
People think they got lucky.
- [30:38]
A
Yeah.
- [30:38]
B
I don't like that argument.
- [30:39]
A
No.
- [30:40]
B
Maybe some of them, but I think the majority of them really had conviction.
- [30:43]
A
I agree. And also, you know, when people say, like, did you wish that you got into it earlier? And I would say yes, but I like, if I bought a ton and I saw it go up to like, let's say $10,000, I would be like, cool. I'm selling it all. Like, see you later, guys. Especially if I didn't do my due diligence in regards to, like, educating myself on it. I would be like, sick. Like, I'm out. Whereas because I got into that middle range that, you know, I. I didn't do that, like. And I've. You know, it's helped me for sure. There's no question about it. I. I don't want to say that, but, you know, to get in too early, it's like. Yeah, I think. I think a lot of people would have just like, all right, let's go to Fiat now. Like, you know, so sometimes you're not
- [31:30]
B
mature enough to handle that money.
- [31:31]
A
Yeah.
- [31:31]
B
That's why lottery winners and a lot of pro athletes go broke.
- [31:34]
A
They lose it all the time. Yeah.
- [31:35]
B
I'm sure you've seen that a lot.
- [31:36]
A
100. 100.
- [31:38]
B
Yeah. Dedicate your whole life to your. Your art, and then you go broke it. And then you're too old to go back to it.
- [31:45]
A
It must suck, you know, it happens so often. Yeah, unfortunately.
- [31:49]
B
It's terrible. Yeah. Dude. I'm a watcher. What time are you speaking tomorrow?
- [31:53]
A
Let's see. I'm on at 10. 10 o' clock or 10:30. Yeah.
- [31:58]
B
So film, and I'll pop in there. Oh, right on. What are you gonna talk about?
- [32:01]
A
I think I'll be on the Nakamoto stage, but I'll be. I'm on with other professional athletes. Chris Cyborg will be there. So I guess we're just going to kind of talk about maybe the mindset that we had as professional athletes and, like, applying that to, you know, I guess, our bitcoin journeys and how that may be parallels and things like that. So. Yeah. So it'll be fun.
- [32:21]
B
Well, thanks for coming on.
- [32:22]
A
Yeah. Thanks for having me, bro.
- [32:23]
B
Yeah.
- [32:24]
A
Yeah, man.
- [32:25]
B
Thanks for watching all the way to the end, guys. It means a lot. Please Click here if you want to watch the next episode and please subscribe to the show. It helps us get more guests and helps grow the brand.