Why You Can’t Get Clients... | Matt Brockman | DSH #1901

Summary

Podcast Summary: Digital Social Hour – “Why You Can’t Get Clients...”

Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Matt Brockman (Enroll Premium Clients)
Episode: DSH #1901
Date: April 3, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, Sean Kelly sits down with Matt Brockman, founder of Enroll Premium Clients, to dissect the current challenges of getting clients—particularly in the high-ticket coaching and agency space. The conversation is a candid and detailed look at eroding consumer trust, the evolution of business models in response, the human (and AI) side of sales, lessons from polarizing industry leaders, and the gritty realities of entrepreneurship.

Matt shares hard-earned lessons from doing over $4 million in sales, building (and shutting down) niche offers, surviving legal battles, and why perseverance and risk tolerance are more important than ever for business owners.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Trust Recession" in Online Business

Timestamps: 00:32 – 04:59

• Both Sean and Matt note that consumer trust in coaching, courses, and agency services is at an all-time low.
• It's easy for anyone to launch a high-ticket program now, but the low bar has created a wave of poor experiences and client dissatisfaction.
• "It's so easy for anyone these days to make and launch a high ticket program where there's a lot of backlash from that. Where it's way harder to gain people's trust these days." – Matt (01:27)
• Buyers are more skeptical of proof (screenshots, testimonials) than ever, knowing manipulation tools like Photoshop are common.
• "Even if you have like 100 case studies... people still find a reason to be skeptical." – Matt (02:41)

2. Business Model Shifts: From Big Upfronts to Rev/Profit Share

Timestamps: 03:06 – 07:40

• Broken trust and skepticism have led many in the industry to move away from big, upfront high-ticket fees.
• Matt and Sean discuss shifting to revenue-share or profit-share models, only making money if clients do.
• "I think the days of like charging 15 to 20 grand up front to join a group program are gonna be gone soon... unless you're like Grant Cardone or Hermozi." – Matt (07:22)

3. The Role of In-Person Events & Community

Timestamps: 07:40 – 10:38

• Despite digital advances, real-life networking maintains powerful appeal.
• Large conferences are less sustainable, with costs outpacing benefits, but smaller masterminds/workshops are rising.
• "That human connection is absolutely priceless... people want to see each other in person and not just see each other through a zoom screen." – Matt (08:03)
• Modern events serve as funnels to bigger offers/programs.

4. AI’s Growing Role in Sales and Operations

Timestamps: 10:55 – 13:39

• Matt discusses using AI tools like CharlieAI for appointment setting—consistently outperforming human setters (available 24/7, no off days).
• AI (Claude, ChatGPT) now drives content creation, copywriting, webinars, ad creative, and knowledge bases.
• "We can create entire knowledge bases for each of our clients... we have this entire knowledge base that just spits out perfect copy." – Matt (13:26)

5. Industry Reflections: Key Influencers & Lessons Learned

Timestamps: 14:12 – 19:58

• Matt shares opinions on industry leaders: Alex Hormozi, Grant Cardone, Andy Elliott, Tai Lopez.
• Biggest lesson: Polarity makes an impact—being authentic and sometimes controversial attracts more attention (but not always positive).
• "If you're being authentic, it's the best. Because even if you're authentic, but you're polarizing, you're just yourself." – Sean (19:06)
• Matt credits Dan Henry as the most impactful mentor, inspiring him to successfully sell (very) niche high-ticket offers.

6. The Paradox of Pricing: Why High-Ticket Works

Timestamps: 27:27 – 32:14

• Low-ticket offers rarely deliver committed clients or profit, especially against paid ad costs.
• Repurposing identical content as a high-ticket, personalized experience vastly improves client results.
• "With low ticket, people just don't take it seriously... but the exact same content as a high ticket program, people are buying the same information for 100 times the price and then they're actually using it." – Matt (31:28)

7. The Biggest Block to Getting Clients: Persistence

Timestamps: 32:32 – 35:38

• Timing is tough for new entrants today due to the evolving market—but the #1 reason people fail is they give up too soon.
• "I've had clients... they'll spend a thousand dollars on ads and be like, this doesn't work, and then they give up. It's like, you only spent $1,000." – Matt (33:08)
• True success required grit, risk tolerance, and sometimes “Hermozi moments”—betting it all even when down to your last dollars.

8. Entrepreneurship’s Realities: Loss, Lawsuits, and Learning

Timestamps: 36:51 – 53:15

• Losing everything isn’t the end—“You are the asset that can get everything back.” – Matt (37:10)
• Lawsuits are inevitable for successful entrepreneurs; managing risk and protecting assets becomes a priority as business grows.
• Offshore entities and trusts are discussed as strategic defenses, drawing parallels with how billionaires structure their holdings.

9. Digital Nomad Lifestyle, Taxes, and Freedom

Timestamps: 41:48 – 44:29

• Vegas and Dubai are compared as business-friendly destinations; moving for lower taxes, new opportunities, and more flexibility.
• Matt and Sean discuss the pros and cons of digital versus in-person businesses in relation to location freedom.

10. The Value of Travel and Perspective

Timestamps: 45:15 – 49:02

• Changing locations is tied to renewal, learning, greater adaptability, and resilience.
• “The more you travel, the more places you live, the younger you feel... there’s always something new happening." – Matt (45:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trust in Sales:
  "It's so easy for anyone these days to make and launch a high ticket program where there's a lot of backlash from that. Where it's way harder to gain people's trust these days."
  — Matt, [01:27]

• On AI Appointment Setters:
  "It sets around the clock. So like if a lead opts into your funnel at 3:00am, Charlie's going to talk to him at 3:00am. And then you just wake up to booked calls."
  — Matt, [12:01]

• On High-Ticket's Real Value:
  "People who pay, pay attention. If you actually spend like multiple thousands of dollars on the same information, you're actually going to consume it because you have skin in the game."
  — Matt, [32:03]

• On Grit in Business:
  "You can lose everything, but you are the asset that can give everything back... once you really understand that, money is just material."
  — Matt, [37:08]

• On Dealing with Lawsuits:
  "Getting served for the first time, I was just out of commission for six months... felt like everything was over. Life was going to end. Like it's the worst possible feeling."
  — Matt, [50:45]

• On Authenticity & Polarity:
  "If you’re being authentic, it’s the best. Because even if you’re authentic, but you’re polarizing, you’re just yourself."
  — Sean, [19:06]

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Structural Highlights (with Timestamps)

• The Trust Recession in High-Ticket (00:32 – 04:59)
• Shifting to Performance-based Models (03:06 – 07:40)
• Revival of In-Person, Mastermind Events (07:40 – 10:38)
• AI Revolutionizes Sales Ops (10:55 – 13:39)
• Industry Leaders & Controversy (14:12 – 19:58)
• Low vs. High Ticket Offers (27:27 – 32:14)
• Why Most Fail to Get Clients (32:32 – 35:38)
• Resilience and Life Lessons (36:51 – 53:15)
• The New Digital Freedom (41:48 – 44:29)
• Valuing Travel & Experience (45:15 – 49:02)

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Flow & Tone

The episode is unfiltered, personable, and advice-rich, matching Digital Social Hour’s promise of no-holds-barred, authentic conversation. Both Sean and Matt are candid about their wins, failures, skepticism, frustrations, and moments of self-doubt, offering a realistic look at entrepreneurship in 2026.

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Where to Find Matt Brockman

• Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube: Enroll Premium Clients
• Brand focus: Helping people enroll premium clients (B2B high-ticket space)

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Summary prepared for listeners who want a deep, practical, and honest summary—giving you all the key ideas and moments without needing to wade through the full episode.

Transcript

[A]

Real genuine human connection is never going to be replaced by AI when it comes to like sales and closing deals. Like people want to feel understood and people just want to feel heard and understood. I mean, that's why I don't think therapists ever are going to be replaced by AI either.

[B]

Okay, guys, got Matt on the show today from enroll premium clients. We're going to talk high ticket offers making money online. This Guy's generated over $4 million in sales off of high ticket coaching. Thanks for coming on, man.

[A]

Yeah, I appreciate having me.

[B]

Yeah, it's an interesting space these days, right. Trust is probably at an all time low, you'd say.

[A]

Yeah, like everyone, even like two, three years ago people were saying we're in a trust recession. But I think it just gets even worse as time goes on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because there's so many people. Because it's so easy now to throw together a coaching program. Right. Put together a course, have some group calls or whatever and it's easy, it's easy for people to like not do it well and then burn a bunch of clients. And then now those clients are harder sales for the next offer they invest in because they're like, oh, I, I spent 10k with this last guy and he didn't give me results. Like his course sucked. Like the, he threw me in a group call with 100 other clients. I didn't get real support. And I mean I feel like over the last few years that has kind of compounded over time and it's getting harder and harder to sell people into high ticket programs because I mean the secret is out. It's so easy for anyone these days to, to make and launch a high ticket program where there's a lot of backlash from that. Where it's, it's harder, way harder to gain people's trust these days.

[B]

Yeah, I only buy from experienced people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? Because there's a lot of high ticket offers with young sellers these days that don't have the experience, their track record.

[A]

Right? Yeah. I mean if you're like have a really big track record, like you're a household name in the digital marketing space, those people are probably still fine. But for people who are like just getting started out, maybe they're still under a hundred thousand a month and you know, they, they, they, they mean well and have a good product or service, it's really hard, especially for those people who are just lesser known, to get people to agree to high ticket 100. Yeah.

[B]

Because you need that, that trust now. Right. You need to build that brand first. Exactly the following. It used to be you could launch ads, no one knew who you were, and you could make money instantly. I remember those days exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You showed your revenue like a Shopify screenshot or whatever, stripe dashboard, and people were like, oh, let me learn from this guy.

[A]

Yeah. Now everyone's saying, well, you could have Photoshop that stripe dashboard, which people do. Yeah. And you know, people are a lot more skeptical of. Even if you have like 100 case studies and you have conclusive proof you've made like multiple seven figures through your immersion account or whatever, people still find a reason to be skeptical.

[B]

So that's just the Internet now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's become a place where you really have to prove it. Right?

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

It's kind of frustrating.

[A]

Yeah, it is. Because like, I remember a couple years ago how easy it was, but now it's like there is a lot more effort that needs to be put in if you're gonna sell a high ticket offer that involves any large amount of money up front. And that, that's why I kind of pivoted towards a new model where it's like, like less upfront or even nothing up front, but like, you only make money. I mean, we only make money if you make money.

[B]

Yeah. And that's the model I'm, I'm even shifting towards.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like I'm hiring an agency right now and I don't want to pay a retainer.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I mean, because I've heard the worst stories from that.

[A]

Yeah. Like I've hired ads agencies in the past. I'm not going to name names or anything, but like they usually charge like an upfront flat rate like the one I hired. I'm not, I'm going to make up the price point because. Yeah. But just for the purposes of this, like they charged around like 5k a month.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they charge 5k a month regardless if you get results or not.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Right. And when I hire this agency, they literally spent two weeks to set up my ad account.

[B]

Jesus. That takes like two hours.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. It's something that takes an hour, but they spent two weeks. So I literally spent like $2,500 for someone to set up an ad account. So it's. So I understand why there's this trust recession is because of bullshit like that.

[B]

Yeah. Because they're scaling so quick they don't care about the customer.

[A]

Yeah. Everyone's doing this whole churn and burn model. Because what I'm finding from all these like marketing gurus is like they at the end of the day, their number one goal is to brag about their monthly revenue.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

They were like, oh, we're, we're an eight figure marketing agency. And that, that's where like that, that, that's what motivates them is to make those claims. But like the actual like client success is like low on their priorities.

[B]

Yes. It's irrelevant.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah, they don't, they'll list a couple of them on the site as testimonials, but that's it.

[A]

Yeah. And they'll, they'll, they'll have like thousands of clients and then maybe like, I don't know, 10% of them actual get real results, but the other 90 were essentially burned.

[B]

And that's important when you're hiring someone to talk with their previous customers. Like when I'm hiring, I'm hiring a YouTube strategist. Right. To get the YouTube views up. And I'm like, who did you work with in the past? What, podcasts? And then I go and talk to these people.

[A]

Right, right. Yeah, yeah. I mean that, that's, that's an approach. I mean, what I usually tell our prospective clients when they ask, oh, can we talk to who you previously worked with is like, I mean, imagine like you drive a car, right? Like you say you drive a Toyota. I don't know, like, would you want Toyota sending their entire mailing list out with your phone number saying, hey, you can call Johnny whenever you want and ask him if he likes his car or not? I don't know. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'm with you on that.

[B]

I wouldn't provide the whole client list.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I would, I would mention like your top ones or a few that way if they want to, because I'm friends with these guys at this podcast space is all. So yeah, I think it's a little different with pods, but I get what you're saying for sure.

[A]

Yeah. But it's like, because we do want to be as transparent as possible. It's like I would want, you know, people to talk to our successful clients and everything, but at the same time it's like I don't want to turn my most successful clients into salespeople.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

And kind of annoy them. Annoy them, make them feel harassed. Like there's these weird Internet people asking them a bunch of questions every day. You know, that's a good point too. So it's like it's a double edged sword to build trust. But, you know, we want to do it without, you know, making your current clientele Feel weird about it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So I think it's going to go towards the Rev share profit share model instead of high ticket offer.

[A]

Right? Yeah. And that's what I've noticed. Like a lot of people are pivoting to something like that. Yeah, I know Cole Goran through the Grapevine is doing like a service model that makes something like that. Because it's like, I mean, I know I can get clients results. I feel very confident in that. Like, I literally had a client make their first sale this past weekend. I heard about it. So, like, I know we can get results, but like, I think the days of like charging 15 to 20 grand up front to join a group program are gonna be gone soon.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Unless you're like Grant Cardone or Hermosi or like a big household name like that. But I think the everyday marketer, I think those days are going to be over pretty soon because there's just so much backlash from people getting burned from those types of offers.

[B]

What do you think? Events, IRL events. Do you see those coming back? Because I know during the pandemic they died out, but do you see that emerging now? That AI is so hot. Do you think people want a personal approach?

[A]

Yeah, I think live in person events or there. There's always going to be a place for that. Like I went to Funnel hacking last year. Last February I went also.

[B]

It was pretty packed.

[A]

Was the last one. Yeah, it was packed. A lot of people were there. And that human connection is absolutely priceless. Like, I had a back end mastermind where like part of the offer is that, you know, we'll meet in person in Vegas and do an event in Vegas and like people eat that up. Like people want to see each other in person and not just see each other through a zoom screen, you know?

[B]

Yeah, I think the conference model is really tough. Like funnel Hacking just had their last event. Grant Cardone's done with 10x Growth Con. Because you have to pay for the speakers. There's a lot of expenses.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I. I wonder if it'll shift to a more interactive approach where more like a workshop. Like a hormozy style approach.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? More like hands on. That makes sense.

[A]

Yeah. Right.

[B]

Because I get bored as at a conference, honestly.

[A]

Yeah, me too. I mean, you kind of get information overload when it's just speaker after speaker after speaker. It's like, all right, like when is lunch for real?

[B]

And it's very general advice for the most part. It's not like tactical stuff. You can implement Right away. Unless you're at a Mastermind that's more tactical. But I think it's going to shift more towards community Mastermind workshop style.

[A]

Yeah, I agree.

[B]

So that's what I'm doing. I'm doing a meetup in a couple months, which you can come to in Vegas.

[A]

I appreciate that.

[B]

It's going to be 200 people. You got to be doing seven figures plus a year to attend. I'm not charging anything. I just want to, like, connect people, give value, you know what I mean? Figure out how to make money on the back end somehow.

[A]

Yeah, it's bill of reciprocity.

[B]

Yeah. Because I was pretty impressed with the way Hormozi did it with the workshop.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, he's making crazy money off those.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I mean, the live events themselves are. They're just a giant funnel.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I mean, with Russell with funnel hacking, like, they make most of their profit from pitching their first 25k program.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Same with Pace Morgan with Inner Circle, too. And it's like you show up to funnel hacking to get your Clickfunnels award and then they pitch you in circle. Brilliant. It's. The award itself is a funnel. Right.

[B]

No, it's brilliant because they get you all excited with the award.

[A]

And then I did Hormozi's workshops, and then they have like three levels.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like the. I did the 5k workshop and then at the end of the workshop, they pitched on the next level, which was 15k.

[B]

Now it's 25.

[A]

Yeah, now it's 25. And then they try to upsell me on the. On the next tier up, too, which I couldn't afford at the time. But. Yeah, I mean. I mean. Yeah, I mean, live events are definitely very powerful. I'm just curious, like, how they would work for someone who's not a household name yet, because. Yeah, that's something tough to do if you're not. If you don't have a reputation already.

[B]

You would need a lot of connections to powerful speakers and people that have experience with events to make it work, I think.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

Also, it's a very tough sell, you're right. Because people come based off the room, like, who's going to be there, what type of quality people, who's speaking, you know what I mean?

[A]

Right.

[B]

So that's a good point. Are you implementing any AI yet with your businesses?

[A]

Yeah, we have. We use AI in a few different ways. We have this one service we use called Charlie AI. The founder is Iggy. I. I can't pronounce his last name. I would embarrass myself. But yeah, it's essentially like an appointment setter AI. Like it integrates with ghl and what we found when we used it for our own offers is that it always outperformed human setters.

[B]

No way.

[A]

Yeah. So it calls you, it, it can do calls. And like the, the voice has improved a lot since it first launched.

[B]

Might hire this because I was looking for a setter now, but they want like 5%, 8% of your sale just to set the meeting.

[A]

Exactly. And it does mo. It mostly does like SMS conversations with your leads. And then it also integrates with. They used to partner with Send Blue, they're partnered with Link now so that they can do the imessage as well.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

But yeah, the beautiful thing about that is that it sets around the clock. So like if a lead ops into your funnel at 3:00am, Charlie's going to

[B]

talk to him at 3:00am Holy crap.

[A]

And then you just wake up to book calls.

[B]

That's brilliant because when you have humans, sometimes they got to wait 8 hours to hit the lead.

[A]

Right. And like if you call someone in the US after 8 or 9pm, you can get in trouble and everything. But if it's an AI, I mean it kind of solves that issue.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And what I love about AI is too is that they're not human. Is like setters. Sometimes setters, their girlfriend, their girlfriend breaks up with them or they're like, oh, like I got a traffic ticket, I got to go to court today, I can't work today. Oh, my son got sick, I can't work today. I just don't do that.

[B]

A lot of excuses. So yeah, yeah, I'm gonna try that one out. Thank you for that. Yeah, that's cool.

[A]

There's that. And then we also use Claude and chatgpt a lot because for our done for you offer, like we're building everything from, for our clients for scratch, like we're writing their messaging, making it actually good. We're creating their offers, we're writing their webinars or VSLs for them, we're building the entire funnel, all their email automations, we do everything for them. And Claude and GPT are incredibly useful for that because we can create entire knowledge basis for each of our clients that makes sense. Where it's like we upload everything from them. Any books they've written, posts they've made in the past, YouTube scripts and content, past sales calls they've done. We can take the entire transcript from Fathom and Just put it into the knowledge base. So it's like whenever we need to write more ads for a client or write a new version of their webinar or write an email for them, like, we have this entire knowledge base that just spits out perfect copy.

[B]

So that's awesome.

[A]

Saves us a ton of time.

[B]

That's sick, man. Yeah. AI has been a game changer for sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did you get Hormozy's AI that he did on the book launch?

[A]

I did not.

[B]

The 18K one?

[A]

No.

[B]

Did you see that one?

[A]

I didn't actually.

[B]

He did a book launch, and you had to buy, like, I think, 300 books.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And it got included with that.

[A]

Was that for his money? Models?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Models.

[A]

I wasn't able to watch that one live, so I missed that.

[B]

Then I think he did a hundred million dollars off that launch.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Crazy dude.

[A]

Insane dude's different. Yeah, he's next level, man.

[B]

Yeah. I got a list of names here. I'd love to see what you think of these people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think I already know how you feel about Hormozi, but Amon Godsy, Aman.

[A]

I actually don't know much about him, so I can't really comment on that, honestly.

[B]

Yeah. He's got a younger crowd, I feel like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A lot of younger kids. Grant Cardone.

[A]

Yeah. I look up to Grant a lot. I know Grant kind of has a little bit of a rep for. I don't know, Some people love him, some people don't like him. He's very polarizing. I would agree with that. But I learned a lot from him in the sales side of things, and I learned a lot of, like, financial advice from Grant as well when it comes to investing in real estate. And because his. His whole real estate plan with the. The multifamily that he pushes is. Is the direction I'm going as I'm building my portfolio. But he also had, like, a lot of good things to say because he did a mastermind down in Miami. I wasn't there, but I. I learned from people who were there. And he. He talked about, like, sometimes you have to shut down a profitable offer to make room for something even better, which is what I eventually did for my own companies, where my very first business was a. A coaching program for trumpet players. Believe it or not, super, super niche. But, like, we made it work. We made over 3 million with that offer.

[B]

Damn. But failed out of trumpet class in the middle school, I think.

[A]

Oh, you played trumpet?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was not good.

[B]

I was terrible. I needed Your course.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But we made 3 million with that. But it definitely hit a ceiling. And like, I have eight nine figure ambitions, so it's like I wanted to eventually stop doing the B2C trumpet program and just focus on B2B type offerings so I can reach my, my financial goals. And I mean, I ended up having to make a tough decision is this, to shut down this offer that was printing money. Because I tried to do both at once and I. It didn't happen. And I learned from Grant that sometimes you got to shut down something that works to make room for something that might work even better.

[B]

Yeah, that must have been a tough feeling, shutting down something, printing money.

[A]

Yeah, it was. It was tough. But honestly, it just. My quality of life has increased ever since I shut it down because there's just less to worry about now.

[B]

Yeah. It's such a niche market.

[A]

Right, Exactly.

[B]

The cap on that would have been way less than what you're doing now.

[A]

Yeah. And like the, the trumpet business was never my long term goal anyway. It was my first company to learn how to run businesses. And now, now that I've done it and I've proven results with an offer that's not, you know, selling sales or marketing courses, like it's. I scaled like a real offer.

[B]

Yeah. Stepping stone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I think with your model now all it takes is a few big clients and you could hit that eight figure level, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you're doing a rev share.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

Yeah, that makes sense. What about Andy Elliot?

[A]

Yeah, Andy Elliott. He says a lot of things that make sense to me. He's a very tough. I mean, that's his whole branding is this, this big, tough guy, you know, very resilient. And I saw him speak at FHL last year and honestly, his speech was my favorite speech.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. Like, if I just went home after. Yeah. I think he was like the first or second person too.

[B]

That makes sense.

[A]

Like if I went home and didn't come back after, I felt like I would have gotten my money's worth. But yeah, he has the whole story of how like, you know, he, he had like rocky starts. Like he made some mistakes in his career as, as a lot of people do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But he, he was still able to like, overcome it and come out a better person and come back like building, you know, good offers that inspire a lot of people. Like, I was very inspired by his story and it, it's helped me a lot in my, with my mindset with, you know, my own personal issues that I've had with business, personal, whatever. So, yeah, he is definitely someone who I look up to. But I like Grant. He's also a very polarizing kind of guy. Some people love Andy. Some people, you know, think he's a scammy used car salesman.

[B]

I've noticed that with anyone in the high ticket info space is. Is polarizing. Tai Lopez, Grant Cardone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Andy Elliott.

[A]

Well, I mean, it's a good point because, like, polarity kind of creates, like, the biggest impact and the biggest splash. You're. You're much more likely to get noticed if you're polarizing.

[B]

That's how I build my show. Honestly, I've had on guests that are extremely polarizing.

[A]

Yeah. I learned that from. From Dan Henry. I was a client of his, and he. He talks a lot about it in his book as well. But. And I feel this is a huge reason why Trump is president is because he. He's willing to say things that kind of go against the grain and piss a lot of people off. But look how much media attention he gets because of that.

[B]

Yeah. So, yeah, I think if you're being authentic, it's the best. Because even if you're authentic, but you're polarizing, you're just yourself. What are you gonna say about it? You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not like you're putting on a Persona.

[A]

Yeah. And it's like you. You ultimately just have to come to terms with, like, some people are gonna hate you. Like, 50 of your market might hate you for being polarizing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I mean, you gotta just be okay with that.

[B]

You can't please everyone.

[A]

Yeah. If you end up. If you try to please everyone, you'll please no one.

[B]

I stopped doing that when I started the show. I realized it wouldn't work for my mental health.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

One hate comment used to, like, keep me up at night.

[A]

Yeah. And it's like, I. I never was really bothered by it. I mean, maybe at a certain scale, I'm like, all right, this. There's a lot of hate comments in one day. Holy. But it's like. But when you think about, like, all the clients who you're helping and all the lives you're changing and the results they're getting, I mean, you tend to just be numb to it and ignore it because it's like, yeah, yeah. Some. Some random guy who works at McDonald's and has a pickup truck as his profile picture said something mean on my ad. Well, like. Well, when I look at the hundreds of clients who are getting results, like, you can say what you want. I'm helping people here and that's the key.

[B]

Great service or product.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

Or else the hate is justified if you're just scamming people.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah.

[B]

And that's where I could see someone getting hate is a little justified when you're literally scamming people or saying things you're not going to do.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

You know, but you're actually delivering quality. So.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, if you're getting clients results and people are happy with the service, I mean then fine. Fine by me. If the price of that is a few haters.

[B]

Yeah. So it sounds like you've learned from a lot of people, a lot of mentors, a lot of books. What was the most impactful person or book or video that you can remember?

[A]

Yeah, I mean I, I, I've worked with a lot of mentors, a lot of coaches, read a lot of books. Early on in my development, I would probably say Dan Henry was my most impactful mentor author who I've read.

[B]

I used to see his ad every day. Oh yeah, he's been on the show too. Shout out to Dan. Yeah, he's in Dubai now, right?

[A]

Yeah, he's in Dubai.

[B]

That's how you know you made a lot of money when you move. Freaking Dubai.

[A]

Yeah, he'll be staying safe right now.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

But, but yeah, he was the first person who kind of helped me believe that it's possible to sell anything high ticket. Because I remember back in the day when he was selling DMC digital millionaire coaching that he had people in there like selling like handstand offers and just people doing the most random things. Like there was a client, Bruce that he had who sold like a piano course for $5,000.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And I think and then another client named Vaughn, who I'm actually good friends with now he has a gospel piano program that he's at seven figures with.

[B]

Holy crap.

[A]

Piano lessons in authentic gospel piano too.

[B]

That's so niche.

[A]

So, so niche. And he seven figure company to this day. But it was after seeing case studies like that where I'm like, okay, if these guys can sell a piano program for 5K, I can do this for trumpet. And then I launched Trumpet mastering. Wow. Yeah.

[B]

$3 million.

[A]

3 million with that offer. Yeah.

[B]

That's insane. Who would have thought teaching trumpet?

[A]

Yeah, it's crazy. I mean at the end of the day, I mean in the music niche, most people are paying for like one on one lessons. That's what everyone's used to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if you're A serious student and you're paying like a hundred dollars an hour each week for 52 weeks. I mean that's over 5k.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So in a way we're kind of saving them money and giving them a little more, more value.

[B]

When you put it that way. That makes sense. Yeah. I used to take tennis lessons. Those were like 100, 150 an hour, I think. I wonder if that's possible to teach virtually though.

[A]

Yeah. I mean I've seen someone do like a golf course. Like I, I've, I've seen this person's ads all the time. So I mean, if the ads are consistent, I assume he's profitable. But. Yeah. He sell a golf program.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Teaching golf online?

[B]

No way. That's crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What's, what are the best high ticket offers you've seen over your time?

[A]

Yeah. I think my, the high ticket offer I was most impressed with was Colegior and Sales. Sales team accelerator.

[B]

He did a lot with that one.

[A]

Yeah. Like he, it was just a perfect example of like what a high ticket program should be. Like the, the course itself is phenomenal. Like I, I still reference back to it at least once a month when, whenever I need clarity on something like the, the group calls. Like there's so many options, all different categories, everything you possibly need help with. But it's like what kind of blew me away the most is that it felt like an actual service and it didn't feel like I just bought another course. Right. It's like they have account managers and CSMs who talk to you every single day.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

They're checking in on you like making sure you reach your numbers and everything. And they have the whole recruiting service as well, where they're placing you with setters, closers. And it feels like a, like an actual service and like an actual partnership where you know, they're, they're, they're supportive of you. They want you to be successful. Granted, like, you know, they have upsells and renewals that they're trying to upgrade you to and that's the whole business model. But like his program was the first time where I felt like I joined like an actual service and I didn't just buy another course.

[B]

So he really made the right hires for community building, it sounds like.

[A]

Right, right. And like his company is like kind of what I want to model. Enroll premium clients after.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where it's like, it's not like it's, it's not just another chorus where it's selling information like it's a full service. Like Eventually I like, I want to have like a whole sales recruiting division to it where it's like where we're placing closer setters, any type of team member with, with our clients in our portfolio. And yeah, I mean the. By. By. By leaps and bounds. His offer was my favorite investor shout out to Cole.

[B]

I mean, I, I've heard some rumors that that offer did like 5 mil a month or some crazy numbers. So that makes sense. You, you mentioned earlier setters are going to get replaced by AI. What about closers, you think?

[A]

I'm not sure. I'm kind of back and forth about this one because I feel like real genuine human connection is never going to be replaced by AI because when it comes to like sales and closing deals, like, people want to feel understood. People want to feel like this guy gets me, he knows my problems. Oh, he's had clients who have similar problems to me. Awesome. And people just want to feel heard and understood. I mean, that's why I don't think therapists ever going to be replaced by AI either.

[B]

They're trying. But yeah, I agree the emotional aspect

[A]

is a tough one to replace because closing is. Is. Has a lot of parallels to therapy where it's like people want to feel heard, people want to feel like they're listened to, someone gets them, they understand their problems. And I don't feel like an AI is ever going to be able to replicate that. Sure, AI, you know, it would probably be a better listener and be able to like do the, the tactics of sales better than a human could. But especially in B2C sales, like there is that emotional piece that just needs to be there for a lot of, for a lot of people. Maybe B2B sales that are more numbery and more technical and you know, the, the founder already has a good mindset and understands that it's a transaction and not anything more than that. Maybe AI can close those deals. But for B2C sales, I don't see AI or closer.

[B]

I agree. I can see it for setters because it's just qualifying.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But for closers, I don't think so yet. Maybe down the road. Yeah, AI is evolving so quick. I mean, I just built my whole website with AI.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

It's crazy.

[A]

Yeah, like I. A lot of ad images, YouTube thumbnails that I'm using. It's like I remember when GPT and with the, the image version of that that no one uses anymore.

[B]

I know what you're talking about.

[A]

Yeah. But it's like I remember just how horrible everything Was terrible when it first launched, but it's really come a long way.

[B]

The thumbnails on YouTube. Yeah. I'm split, testing. Some of the AI ones are outperforming people. I'm paying 50 to 100 per thumbnail.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's crazy. I think graphic design is, is totally.

[A]

Graphic designers are.

[B]

Web developers are screwed.

[A]

Graphic design.

[B]

Imagine going to college for graphic design now. Spoilers.

[A]

Yeah. My younger brother went to college. I didn't feel so, so bad for

[B]

him, but, you know, like, what, what year was that?

[A]

He graduated maybe a year and a half ago. So when, when he entered chat, GPT was first kind of.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Started.

[B]

He should have seen it coming, I think at that point.

[A]

Well, I think it was new enough for like, he didn't know. No. No one really knew what it was going to become.

[B]

Yeah. Here's what annoys me though. Like, I texted my web developer, like, have you seen lovable.dev yet? Do you know that one? Yeah, yeah. Have you seen it yet? He's like, yeah, it's terrible. But I'm like, bro, you should be embracing this. If you're a web developer, why would you be against AI? It's going to help you get more clients if you utilize this.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

You know what I mean? So I think it's on you at that point if you're not embracing it.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I mean, there's always going to be skepticism when there's innovation, something new. Like, I know, like when the Internet first came out in the 90s, like, people were skeptical about that and then look how much it's impacted the world today. Right, true. So I mean, it just needs time before people are kind of normalized AI. But in the beginning, there's, there's always going to be skepticism.

[B]

Yeah. And I know you run a lot of paid ads. Is it doing most of your targeting for you these days? AI,

[A]

we still do the targeting the same way we did before AI was a thing. But like a lot of our copy and a lot of the, the creatives and media we use for the ads now, or AI got it. Like the imagery, the, the video editing in the creatives, there's a lot of AI now.

[B]

I used to take a lot of time to do manually copy and the split testing.

[A]

Yeah, a lot of the copies too. And I'll, I'll take a copy and be like, write four headlines for this copy. And it's just so easy to pump that out.

[B]

Yeah, it does my YouTube titles.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it provides good titles.

[A]

Yeah. It's like for YouTube too, with the whole SEO optimization too, where it's like, oh, create perfect descriptions with all the keywords that you want.

[B]

Wow. Yeah, I need to use that. I need to tell my editing team. I don't know if they use that, but that's smart. So you rank higher on the search.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah. Wow.

[B]

Fun times we're in, man.

[A]

Oh, my fun times.

[B]

I remember early my entrepreneurial journey, you had to do everything was so tedious. Like, you had to do everything. You know what I mean? Like, you would spend hours on the dumbest shit because there wasn't AI, like, just doing it for you. Now I feel like it's so optimized. Like, it does a lot of my research for me. For podcast guests. If I want to summarize a book or a podcast, it could do that in two minutes. Yeah, it's crazy.

[A]

Saves you a lot of time. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Like, I'm really pumped about it. I know some people hate it, but I'm a huge fan.

[A]

Yeah, well, I mean, I don't see how hating it is productive for sure.

[B]

What do you think about low ticket offers? Have you dabbled with those?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I used to do low ticket when I was first getting started, but I think any experienced marketer would agree that starting with low ticket isn't a good idea. You have to start with high ticket, something that was going to bring you a lot of upfront capital so that you have like a backbone to your whole business. But I used to sell like a $37 ebook when I was doing my trumpet program. And then I would sell like workshops with guest artists. Like, we brought in like very famous trumpet players in the niche, like Wayne Bergeron, Alan Vazuti, principals of major orchestras, like Canadian Brass members. Like, we, we brought him pretty much like the top tier A players. And I was selling like those workshops for like 97 a ticket.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And I mean, I was pretty much lucky to break even when I was doing low ticket because I was running ass to all that. If I broke even, that'd be a good month for me. And what I found is that with low ticket, people just don't take it seriously either.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So with the ebook that was 37 is like a hundred page book. Spent a lot of time making it and everything. But like the. I would say like 40, 50% of people never even click the link to download the book after they purchase it. Yeah. That's so crazy. But it's like I took this. The exact same content in the book, like just Repackaged it into a high ticket program and people are buying the same information for like 100 times the price and, and then they're actually using it because they actually paid more for it.

[B]

So just reframing the.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Mindset.

[A]

I mean, it's the whole saying of like people who pay, pay attention to where if you actually spend like multiple thousands of dollars on the same information, you're actually going to consume it because you have skin in the game. Right.

[B]

It's the same thing with events. I host a lot of events as we mentioned earlier, and when it's free, only 40 to 50 of people show up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But when it's paid like 80 to 90 show up, so.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Same thing in any business you're in.

[A]

Yeah. You filter out the tire kickers.

[B]

Yeah, there's a lot of those. Why do people struggle to get clients?

[A]

From your experience, why do people struggle to get clients? So there's a few reasons for this. I mean, we already talked about the trust recession where I feel like people who are just getting started today definitely have an unfair advantage versus people who launched their first business, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Four or five years ago.

[B]

So timing.

[A]

Yeah. So the timing is definitely a big part of it because you know, the word is out about the high ticket space and like there's a lot of scumbags burning people out there.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So that definitely makes it harder for the new guy. But I think the, the biggest culprit though is people just giving up too early. Because I've had clients who like, they'll, they'll spend a thousand dollars on ads and be like, this doesn't work and then they give up. It's like, you only spend $1,000.

[B]

That's nothing.

[A]

Yeah. You're, you're selling a 5K program. You only spend $1,000. What do you expect?

[B]

Some people spend a thousand per lead.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Depending on the business you're in.

[A]

Exactly. Right. It's like people, a lot of people just aren't groomed and don't have the mental toughness to really get a high ticket business off the ground. And so I think that's a big part of it and like a big reason why I'm doing my new business model with the whole done for your service is because those people don't even get to look at their ad accounts. We're going to do all that for them. So it's like, like we're, we're kind of taking all the emotion away because it's like we're running the ads, not you, we're building the sales process, not you. We're doing all the measurements, not you. So it's like because one, it's not our money. Yeah, we're never going to get emotional about it. And we've done this before. Like, I've spent like way too much of my own money trying to figure this out. Like when I first launched my business, like, I, I'm pretty frugal. I don't really spend a lot. I mean, at least this was true, like back when I was poor. But I have a little bit.

[B]

It's all relative, right?

[A]

Yeah, it's all relative. Right. But I was 23 years old when I first got started and I had like 20k in savings, which, you know, it's a lot for a 23 year old, I guess. But I remember like I invested in mentorship programs as running ads, paying for click funnels, paying for all the software, this and that, and my 20k in life savings all the way went all the way down to 3k.

[B]

Jeez.

[A]

And then it went down to 3k and that's when things took off.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So it's like I could have gotten emotional when I lost like 75% of my net worth or I could have kept going and made it happen. Because I remember 100 million dollar offers was that at the time. And I know Hermosi told his whole story about how he was down to his last thousand dollars and he still didn't give up. He turned the ads on, just leveraged an old credit card he had and made it happen. And I remember just remembering that story because I've already read it at the time and I'm like, all right, this is my Hermosi moment. Like I'm down to my last 3K. Like, if this doesn't work, that's, that's not good. But I'm not gonna give up.

[B]

You're young.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You could afford to lose it all at that age.

[A]

Yeah, Exactly. And I'm 29, I can still afford to lose it all. But I went for it. Made my first webinar, did my first high ticket pitch, closed a three thousand dollar client in full.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And then raised the price to 5k and it eventually went all the way up to 7k. But I went from like the plane doing a nose dive to the ground, 3k left the pilot, woke up last minute.

[B]

That's how it is, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Same thing with the pod. I was down 100k first 6 months of this podcast. Easily could have quit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, that's A lot to be down and saw the. The big picture with it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. But unfortunately, like, most people just don't have that mental toughness to deal with. Massive swings like that.

[B]

They don't. I. I attribute it to. I'm a big risk taker.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was single or not single then, but I wasn't married. So it wasn't just my life on the line, if that makes sense. And I was young, you know, I could. I had the fortune of if I failed, I could have lived with my parents.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I had that as, like, my final trump card, I guess. But I think when you're that young, you should take some risks, you know?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I feel like people should take risks no matter what age they are. Because, I mean, something I learned kind of recently, like, don't want to go into, like, personal stuff, but, like, you can lose everything, but you are the asset that can give everything back.

[B]

Like, you got the knowledge still.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Because it's like whether you're. I don't know, if you get divorced or you have a major health problem and the medical bills drain you out or you get sued or anything like that, like, the money is not the asset. Like, this is the asset. Right.

[B]

I've lost it all twice, and I'm grateful for it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it's made me way stronger.

[A]

Yeah. So, like, once you really understand that. That, that money is just material and money is something that you can. You can always get back. It. It'll let. It's like a superpower where it's like, you're not afraid to lose any everything. Like, you. You can do anything with just full intention and just have the power to get everything back. Because, like, a lot of our heroes, a lot of people we look up to have lost everything.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Multiple times.

[A]

Like Dave Ramsey. Bankrupt.

[B]

Dan Martel.

[A]

Dan Martel. Abraham Lincoln.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Declared bankruptcy. Yeah. Abraham Lincoln.

[B]

He was an entrepreneur before president.

[A]

Or even like celebrities like Robert Downey Jr. Like, drug addict, you know, has been in jail multiple times, and he's. Now he's Robert Downey Jr. Yep.

[B]

You know, so many examples.

[A]

So many examples. Yeah.

[B]

So I think Trump, too.

[A]

Yeah. Trump has declared bankruptcy several times. Several times. Not Chapter seven, but like, the business version of that. I think it's chapter 11.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

But, yeah, I mean, Hormozi was down to his last thousand dollars. And no, he said in several podcasts I listened to is that he would have declared bankruptcy if it didn't work out.

[B]

Yeah, I've been close at times, you know. Yeah, it's. It's just part of the entrepreneurial journey, dude.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Don't let it get to you when you're down that bad. I know there's probably some people watching this that are down right now because it's. I think we're in a recession and they won't admit it, but. Yeah, it's definitely. You could tell when you're a business owner, like, based off your sales, kind of where the economy is heading, I feel like.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

And I feel like we are in a recession, so a lot of people are down right now.

[A]

Yeah, we're definitely in a recession with what's going on with global politics right now. I don't know. You know, it is definitely going to economically impact us because gas prices are definitely going up.

[B]

Yeah. I just paid, like, $5.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Gallon or.

[A]

It's like, I thought we were done with this, but.

[B]

And being in Vegas, we kind of can see we're. We're always like, a market indicator for recessions.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The strip clubs here, the clubs here, the casinos are usually a key sign.

[A]

Yeah. Less people are coming here. It usually means the economy is getting worse.

[B]

Yeah. Well, people are just getting ripped off here also. That's a whole other podcast, but, yeah, Vegas ain't the same, man. How long you been here?

[A]

I've been here since June of 24.

[B]

Oh, it's your brand new.

[A]

Coming up on two years.

[B]

Okay. Okay. You come from Cali?

[A]

I came from la. Yeah, Same. I lived all over, though. I was born and raised in New Jersey.

[B]

Oh, same. What the hell? Yeah, we're both 29. That's crazy.

[A]

Monmouth County.

[B]

Somerset County.

[A]

Yeah. Graduated high school in 2014. But, yeah, I went to school. I went to college in New York. Then my first job was with the military bands, and I was stationed down in Savannah, Georgia. And then that was during COVID And then I created my first business while I was in lockdown. And I also discovered very quickly that I don't want to work for anyone else.

[B]

Yeah, same.

[A]

And the government was kind of an extreme example of how much it could suck to work for someone else.

[B]

So you're locked in for four years.

[A]

Yeah. And they treat you like shit. And. Yeah.

[B]

You guys got no respect.

[A]

Yeah. The military bans, like, I was making, like, 30 grand a year living in it. Literally, like a apartment that had cockroaches in it. Oh, my God. It was.

[B]

How do you live off 30 grand a year?

[A]

I don't know that all Goes to your rent. Well, they, they give us free housing. But the, the government housing, it's like, it might as well be jail. Prohibitions are so bad. But that, that's what inspired me to be like, okay, I got to make a living on my own. Like, I can't be dependent on an employer. Like, I got to create my own success. And that's when I launched my first business. So then that got successful. I moved to LA because at the time I had a business colleague who lived in one of the neighborhoods in la. And then business really took off and I was like, why am I in California? This doesn't make sense. The taxes, with the taxes and all the regulations. And so I moved next door to Vegas to. Mostly for tax reasons.

[B]

That's literally what I did. So especially during the pandemic, it made no sense to be in la.

[A]

Yeah. I even thought of moving to Dubai, but with what's going on right now. Oh, yeah, it's probably gonna have to wait.

[B]

But not going now. But yeah, I feel like Dubai, you need to be making several millions or Puerto Rico for it to make sense. But then you're sacrificing quality of life a little bit, too.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, it depends on your values and all that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I mean, Dubai is probably the polar opposite culture of Las Vegas.

[B]

Right.

[A]

This, this is the, the Sin city. And Dubai is the very conservative, pious kind of place. But I mean, it just depends on what your values are and what you're looking for.

[B]

I agree. I think for me, you know, I'm married. I don't know if I want to bring my wife over there. You know, it's a big change for women, but, yeah, I want to go there. I haven't been there. Have you been in Dubai yet?

[A]

I haven't, but I've heard great things. Yeah, like, I, I have a lot of colleagues who live there. Like Dan Henry lives there. I studied under William Brown recently, and he lives there. And they all have nothing but great things to say about it.

[B]

So, yeah, same. Eddie Maloof's over there. Yeah. Dan Douglas, James, I think Joel Yee, a lot of guys in our space.

[A]

And the cool thing about Dubai is that, I mean, you can set up residency there, but it doesn't mean you have to live there. Yeah, like, you can live in Europe, you can get a visa and live in the States. Like, you can travel. Because what bothers me about the US is that no matter where you're located, you still get taxed. Like, you're living in the US like an MF or. Exactly. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. They'll still get their 35, 40 no matter where you're at.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I've thought about moving to like Thailand and being a boss over there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you could live off like five bucks a day over there.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

But you'd still have to pay 35.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Unless you. Which. This is crazy. You could revoke your passport, which I know someone that did that, but I don't know if that's worth it.

[A]

Like expatriating.

[B]

Yeah, you like, revoke it. So then you're not liable for taxes, but then you don't have a US passport, so.

[A]

Yeah, it's like I, I wouldn't mind doing that myself. Really? Yeah, do that. I've. I've thought about it for a lot of years now.

[B]

Yeah, dude. The US is the best, though, for, for like business, I feel like. You don't think so, I guess, because.

[A]

Really? Or do you feel like that's the truth or do you feel like that's more propaganda?

[B]

So I feel, I feel like it's industry dependent. So for what you're doing. Because you can live a digital nomad lifestyle because your business is digital.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think for you it could be possible. But for me as a podcaster, I think it was my guest opportunities not being here.

[A]

Yeah, I guess it depends. Yeah. If you're doing like an in person thing, I mean, like living in Vegas or Miami or New York, I need

[B]

to be in a major city or.

[A]

Yeah, you got to be somewhere like this.

[B]

But for you it's. I could see the argument. Yeah, you can run your business from anywhere in the world.

[A]

Yeah. Like I, I can just take my laptop anywhere and run my business.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like I, I've literally like taken my laptop, laptop to Red Rock, played some poker, had that, that slack open at the same time. But it's like, that's why I stack my days.

[B]

So I'll film once or twice a week because I still want to have that freedom the other days of the week. I don't want to be location bound like most people live. Yeah, location freedom is very important to me. I want to be able to travel when I, When I want. Also.

[A]

Yeah. Do you just do the podcast in Vegas or.

[B]

No, I do other cities. So, like, if there's a big event in la, I'll JSX over here. We got JSX in Vegas. We're kind of spoiled.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'll take that. If I need to go to Texas or Cali sometimes I'll Go to Miami, New York, if it's a big guest, which I don't mind, because I like traveling. I think traveling is very important for mindset.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

You know, it sounds like you've lived in a lot of different places and got perspective on life.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, it's a great way to, like, I. I've heard this saying is, like, the more you travel, like, the more places you live in an experience, like, the younger you feel.

[B]

I could see that.

[A]

Yeah. Because it's like, there's always something new happening. And I mean, over the last 10 years, I don't think I've lived somewhere more than four years.

[B]

Wow. Or more than.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So is that by choice or just like you?

[A]

Some. Sometimes the. The career takes me to where I go. Like when I. I mean, obviously, you know, went to school. You have to relocate for that, usually. Then got into the military. I had to relocate to that and then moved to LA by choice because I had a colleague who lived there and then moved to Vegas for tax reasons. But honestly, like, I'm super grateful to have lived in a lot of different places because you. You kind of see the world differently. A little bit. Even if it's just different cities in the same country, like the States, you. You still, like, get to learn about different cultures and learn about, you know, different ways people live.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's. It's really cool.

[B]

Very important. Even if you're not living, I. I always advise people to at least travel. You know what I mean? If you can't afford moving, completely, like, drive to the next state or the next city. At least experience something, because there's people that still live where they grew up. It blows my mind.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where are you looking at next? Because that's what I'm talking with my wife with where we're going next.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, Dubai.

[B]

Oh, you're really sold on Dubai. Okay.

[A]

Dubai was kind of like the. The plan since a few years ago,

[B]

but now with the war.

[A]

Yeah. The timing is very unfortunate, so I'm kind of like back to the drawing board on that.

[B]

What about domestically? Any other cities that interest you?

[A]

I would love to live in, like, the Pacific Northwest.

[B]

Northwest, wow. That's a.

[A]

Like Seattle, because I have one of my cousins lives in Washington state now.

[B]

You got to handle the rain out there.

[A]

Yeah, the rain is pretty bad. But, like, the. The nature out there, though, is, I hear, is phenomenal.

[B]

You're big on nature.

[A]

Yeah, I'm very big on nature. Like, I love going to national parks, love going outdoors. Great weather is really important to me too. I mean, the rain. I don't mind as long as, like, the. The temperature is kind of.

[B]

I'm with you on the. I don't mind rain. I actually missed the rain out here.

[A]

Yeah. Because I lived in upstate New York for five years when I was in school, and the. That is a deal breaker.

[B]

Okay, walk me through that, because that's on my wife's list, upstate New York. But I don't know, because with the state tax. New York's second highest state tax. Upstate's also really expensive.

[A]

It is, yeah.

[B]

You didn't have a good experience those five years?

[A]

No, I did have a good experience. I love living there. Like, it's a. Upstate New York, honestly, is very underrated. Like, it's super beautiful up there. A lot of great outdoor stuff. It's just the winters there are absolutely brutal.

[B]

Right. So here's my plan.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So like, Tai Lopez taught me this seasonal. I forget how he words it, but he has three locations.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he moves depending on the seasons.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, like, he'll have a spot on the east coast, but in the winter, he'll leave to the west coast.

[A]

Yeah. New York is beautiful for the summertime.

[B]

Yeah. I would say that's my long term plan, to have two or three houses or places to live up and adjust when I need to move during the seasons.

[A]

Yeah. But yeah, New York is beautiful. I lived in Georgia for four years and this is Savannah by the. By the coast. But like, the. The humidity in. In the southeast is. It's like you step outside for five seconds, it's like, I need a shower. I need to change the clothes. Like, this is gross.

[B]

You gotta leave during the summer then.

[A]

Yeah. So, yeah. And then of course, like, the. Like the fall and spring down there were just phenomenal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, I do agree. Like, I have the same kind of plan of having, like a few different homes where it's like, this is my summer home, this is my winter home, just depending on the season.

[B]

Yeah. So I think Ty has a city spot. I think he said New York and la. And then when he needs to go off grid, he'll have, like a ranch somewhere. That's kind of my plan.

[A]

He's up in Sweden now, right?

[B]

Yeah. He's got somewhere. Yeah. And he's dealing with a lot of. With f or whatever.

[A]

This is a whole Radio Shack thing.

[B]

Yeah. I feel like that was a lot of just. That brought a lot of distrust to the high ticket space. What happened.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, because he was like the guru that a lot of people looked up to.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, Ty, I kind of put him in the same bucket as like Andy Elliott and Greg Cardone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Was like, yes. He, he's, he is like one of the top guys. Like he's. A lot of people learn from him. But yeah. I mean there's, I mean I, I like to think that once we get to the end of the, the court case or whatever, then we should cast our judgments.

[B]

Yeah. We'll see how it plays.

[A]

But it's like, you know, innocent till proven guilty. Like, you know, let's hear everyone's side of the story before we judge anyone.

[B]

That's a rare take these days.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean the, the litigation culture in this country is honestly disgusting.

[B]

Dude. It almost wrecked me, my first lawsuit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was awful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I, I like had the worst anxiety over it. Cuz you don't get taught this stuff when you're growing up. So when you get served, it's like a life changing moment.

[A]

Oh yeah. I, I li. I'm still living through it. I'm, I'm not going to talk specifics because it's still ongoing right now. But yeah, it's inevitable.

[B]

When you get to a certain financial level, you are a target.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's what I've realized.

[A]

Everyone wants to stick their filthy hand in your money bag essentially. But yeah. Yeah. Getting served for the first time, I was just out of commission for six months. You know, I got addicted to a few things. You know, I just felt like everything was over, life was going to end. Like it's the worst possible feeling you can have.

[B]

Yeah. I will say, over time you get used to it. Unfortunately. Yeah, now I do. Now you have to allocate like 10 to 20% of your funds to legal. It's just like you got to play defense, you know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. But I mean, that's kind of part of the reason I was thinking about living offshore is because that's smart.

[B]

Because international lawsuit. No.

[A]

Yeah. Is a thousand times harder to sue a Dubai company, for example, than no

[B]

one's going to do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. It would cost way too much.

[A]

Yeah. And then I got into whole like offshore bank accounts. Like I have a Cook Islands Trust now and all that into banking. Yeah. So like these are kind of lessons that I kind of have to learn the hard way when it, when hits the fan.

[B]

But I dealt with a nasty one last year that like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Pretty much put me back to ground zero, which is crazy. Like I was multi millionaire. Chilling and had to deal with that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they even had a. I think it got to, like a judgment or a. Whatever it's called, where I pretty much had to pay a certain amount.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Think a judgment.

[A]

Judgment.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Lawsuits are nasty, bro.

[A]

Yeah. But I mean, like, look at Trump and Zuckerberg and Elon. How much they're getting sued? Like, it seems like they're getting served multiple times a day.

[B]

Oh, every day, multiple times. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. It's.

[B]

It's like, so normal to them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What I've realized is the more you make, the more legal stuff you're gonna have to deal with.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Even Hormozi, he talks about this. It sucks, dude. He deals with a lot too.

[A]

Yeah. So it's like, yeah, this is kind of the ugly side of entrepreneurship.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like, you know, but it's part of the game. And, like, this. This is part of the risk we're taking. So it's. You just got to get used to it, like you said.

[B]

Absolutely. Yeah. You gotta trust up, put your money in smart places. And on paper, I'm broke now, so please sue me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because if you looked at my bank account right now and. Yeah, you're not finding much. I'm pretty broke.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But that's how these guys live, these billionaires and sentine millionaires. They are broke on paper.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All their assets are in either LLC trusts, you know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. Offshore. Or they have a spouse that owns it or.

[B]

Yeah, there's all sorts of creative ways. I love those stories where, like, some girl marries a pro athlete and then they found out his mom was getting all the money, and then they get nothing during the divorce. Those are the best.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, but, dude, this was cool. Where can people potentially work with you, find you and all that stuff?

[A]

Yeah, my Instagram is called enroll premium clients. Same thing with Facebook and YouTube. Just search enroll Premium Clients and that. That's the name of my brand now. We just rebranded too, because I'm trying to build a business model that I can sell one day. I just don't want my name on the brand anymore. So, yeah, Enroll Premium clients as well. Find all of our stuff.

[B]

Yeah, we'll link it below, man. Thanks for coming on.

[A]

Appreciate it.

[B]

Yeah, check them out, guys, if you're interested in creating an offer. See you next time. Peace. Thanks for watching. All the way to the end, guys. Please hit like and subscribe. It helps us grow the show and helps us get bigger guests. Thank you so much.