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Digital Social Hour
Why Your Dating App Strategy is FAILING You | Sabrina Zohar DSH #949
00:43:59
Struggling with dating apps? 🤔 Your strategy might be missing the mark, but not for the reasons you think. Join relationship expert Sabrina Zohar as she breaks down why most dating advice fails and what psychology really tells us about finding connection.
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- [00:01]
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- [01:10]
Sabrina Zohar
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- [01:54]
Sean
Right.
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Sabrina Zohar
So I like to cut through that noise and ultimately bring it back to, like, what's happening with you. Not really focusing on, like, why do these people keep doing this to you?
- [02:05]
Sean
All right, guys, from San Diego, we got Sabrina here. Thanks for coming on.
- [02:08]
Sabrina Zohar
Thanks for having me.
- [02:09]
Sean
Hello, podcast host.
- [02:10]
Sabrina Zohar
Hell yeah, dude. I'm stoked.
- [02:11]
Sean
Absolutely. And your shows about dating, right? Relationships.
- [02:14]
Sabrina Zohar
Dating relationships, and ultimately doing the work to heal.
- [02:17]
Sean
So you went through your own journey and wanted to teach others basically.
- [02:20]
Sabrina Zohar
Yeah. It was one of those that maybe you can relate, maybe you can't. That I never thought it was going to happen. I just was going through, going through it and seeing all this content, adjusting all this stuff, just saying like, hey, this just doesn't resonate. I don't understand what you guys are saying. Why are you keep using these, like, same, you know, 140 characters or less type like taglines. And as I started going on my journey, going to therapy, understanding. Wait a minute, all the things that you're telling me to do are not yielding the results in relationships. And when I started to change that dynamic and then started to realize my relationships were changing and my experiences, that's when I realized, like, hey, I think I need to share this because there feels like a disconnect, right?
- [02:55]
Sean
Yeah. Because a lot of people try to give relationship advice.
- [02:58]
Sabrina Zohar
So many people try to get. It's like having an. Everyone seems to have one and everyone seems to know. And it's like, it's. It's frustrating because I think a lot of the advice that we see isn't actually rooted in psychology. So it's a lot of like, why do all men do this? And you're like, well, there's 9 billion people, so to speak, for every single person in a sweeping generalization just seems irresponsible.
- [03:16]
Sean
Right.
- [03:17]
Sabrina Zohar
So I, I like to cut through that noise and ultimately bring it back to like, what's happening with you not really focusing on, like, why do these people keep doing this to you?
- [03:25]
Sean
There are. Is a lot of broad statements on social media.
- [03:27]
Sabrina Zohar
There's a lot. We love the. If you wanted to, he would. If you like, if they, like, you'll know. If not, you'll be confused. And it's like, okay, do those have a place? Yeah, maybe if the guy doesn't call you. Well, he doesn't want to call you. You're like, okay, well, there's that. But when we start to utilize those of like, oh, this person didn't want a relationship. Well, if you wanted to, he would. It's like we're using quite a broad statement to examine and understand somebody who may have, like, severe trauma triggers is dealing with a lot of things personally. Maybe this isn't a priority. Maybe we don't know how you've been coming off as well. And I think what it does is it mitigates accountability. And I think that's what we're really seeing now in the dating landscape is like, there's very little accountability, very little communication, and just a lot of like, fear that's driving the car. And then we wonder why we're not connecting.
- [04:10]
Sean
Yeah, that makes sense. You take a personalized approach.
- [04:13]
Sabrina Zohar
I try to. I Try to at least like when we're speaking to the masses, of course, you know, like, I'll make a video and let's say people are like, well, this isn't my experience. It's like, well, yeah, of course my lived experience won't be everybody else's. But the point of it is to give broader perspectives. You know, like my partner and I slept together on the first date. It's such. Oh yeah, we are the ultimate taboo couple. Met online, like met on an app. My dog had just passed away. I was like, fuck this, I don't want a relationship. I'm just going to go out with this guy. We had a great time, we hooked up and I was like, if I never see him again, great. And it's like, here we are two years later.
- [04:43]
Sean
Wow.
- [04:44]
Sabrina Zohar
Like looking at rings and talking about engagement. Because I think at the end of the day, sure, for some people that doesn't work. And for 15 years didn't really pan out for me. But that doesn't mean that every person's the same.
- [04:54]
Sean
Yeah, you hear that one all the time. If you sleep with her on the first day, she's not wifey.
- [04:58]
Sabrina Zohar
I'm curious your thoughts as a man, personally, what are your thoughts on that?
- [05:02]
Sean
It would probably be a turn off for me. I waited six months. I mean, I feel like that's excessive for most people, but first date for me probably wouldn't. And see, that's like just based off numbers.
- [05:12]
Sabrina Zohar
Okay.
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Sean
Like statistically, because I'm pretty analytical.
- [05:14]
Sabrina Zohar
Yeah.
- [05:15]
Sean
Like if you were to look at couples that slept on the first date, I'd be curious to see a study on this and see it. Like if they panned out, I think there had.
- [05:21]
Sabrina Zohar
I've looked into quite a few studies and like quite a few of them have shown that a lot of the healthier and successful relationships. And it's not. This isn't a sweeping generalization, but it's the fact that like, I think what it is is that we have to look at intentions. It's not about the physicality aspect. It's really about like, what is this? Does this person have the bandwidth for a relationship? Do they have intentions for one? Because when my partner and I did that on the first date, I left saying, oh, if I never see him again, that's okay. I'm a woman, I had needs, I just want to have fun. But I made it clear to him, if you're going to pursue this, I'm not doing the casual thing. Like, we had that fun and he was fine. With that. And so I think it's also about how you show up as a person. But I, I've, I've been talking to a lot of people and a good portion of people have said, ah, yeah, we slept together early and got it out of the way. But I also have so much respect for people like you who are saying, hey, that doesn't work for me. I know weight. But I think the ultimate thing is looking at, does that work for me? Not is the Internet telling me to do this, oh, I have to play the game and make him chase me. Okay, well, you're doing it for other people, then. You're not doing it authentically for yourself. You want to wait, do what feels right.
- [06:19]
Sean
Yeah, absolutely. I agree. Do you see a lot of people trying to compare on social media?
- [06:24]
Sabrina Zohar
I mean, I feel like that's what social media does so well. Right. Yeah, it's. And I, I fall victim to that as well. Right. Like I think we are as humans, it's so easy because when we start to compare, what that's actually saying is like, that's an insecurity. I don't.
- [06:38]
Indeed Advertiser
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- [07:48]
Sabrina Zohar
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- [08:15]
Sean
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- [09:16]
Sabrina Zohar
Why can't I? What's happening? And we have to remember, social media shows us the highlights, right? Like, it shows us the blooper reel of, look how beautiful that relationship is. And then all of a sudden, six months later, you find out, like, the guy cheated on her and she got pregnant. And then it's like all this crazy shit. But, oh, that photo looked so good. So I think what's happened is between social media, movies, Disney, you know, all the fuck I think about, I'm 34, the Backstreet Boys. Like, some of the lyrics, you're like, oh, no wonder I thought that love was going to be something it wasn't. It's highly set up for unrealistic expectations. And then I think we start to compare on social media because we have zero data besides a photo. And so it just leads to, I think that mindset just kind of being reaffirmed of, like, I'm not good enough. I can't have this.
- [09:56]
Sean
Yeah, I'm sure you're seeing that with a lot of young women. Right?
- [09:59]
Sabrina Zohar
It's really. It breaks my heart because I. I would love people. I think that's why my partner and I are so open about how we communicate and stuff, because I will be the first to be like, oh, no, I got triggered. Like, that annoyed me. And then this is how we talked about it, because it's the healthy relationship Isn't the absence of conflict a healthy relationship doesn't mean that, like, you guys just agree on everything and everything goes well. A healthy relationship means you have conflict and repair that. You can have an issue with your partner, Repair it, have a conversation, understand them, understand yourself, express boundaries, things like that, and then move on together, as opposed to having, you know, how many times you see, you're like, wow, you guys are fighting about same thing. And then now it's mushroomed into 20 other things because no one's really listening to the other. And that's. I think, like, I did a video the other day about don't do a ghosting. It went viral, okay. And there were so many people saying, ghosting's so hurtful. Please don't do it. Like, guys, please just say something. But then there's the other opposite of, I'd rather be ghosted. I don't want to have to say this. That sounds like hr and it's like, well, no, that's just emotional immaturity. If you're so scared of having a direct conversation and just telling somebody, hey, I'm just not interested. Very basic. Then how are you going to have a successful relationship where that requires constant communication?
- [11:07]
Sean
That makes sense. So instead of ghosting, you'd recommend them just to be straight up?
- [11:11]
Sabrina Zohar
I'm a big fan of straight up. Now I understand. And I've seen. I mean, I dated for 15 years in New York and LA. So, like, I'm not two different markets. Two very different markets. And I'm not saying that because the reason I share that is, like, I was in the trenches, I was online dating, I was getting. I was dealing with all the same shit.
- [11:26]
Sean
Yeah.
- [11:27]
Sabrina Zohar
And for me personally, when somebody would ghost me, that was a very clear example of what they're going through. Right. I don't need to internalize the fact that this person couldn't just tell me. On the other token, I hear this all the time of, well, when I say something, the person freaks out. It's like, okay, but you're not doing it for them, you're doing it for you. And if this person freaks out because you told them you don't want to see them, I'd love to know what you think is going to happen when you just never contact them again. You think they're not going to freak out.
- [11:51]
Sean
Yeah.
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Sabrina Zohar
And it's just because I think a lot of people ghost in general simply because either it's a scared, a lack of, you know, confrontation. I don't want to hurt someone else. I don't want to feel responsible for hurting somebody else. I don't want to deal with their emotions. I don't want to deal with my own because then I'm gonna have to process through this. So a lot of the times it's easier to. They don't exist to me. But unfortunately, it really hurts people. So I would personally suggest, because I get this too, of, well, they're dangerous or they'll freak out. And it's like, well, then I have to ask what you're doing dating somebody that you feel so unsafe to even just end it, but yet you had no problem dating this person. A bit of a disconnect, right?
- [12:24]
Sean
Do you see a lot of people, like, staying in relationships? They shouldn't be.
- [12:27]
Sabrina Zohar
The pendulum swings. So you'll either get where it's just too quick to walk away, where you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. All the person said was like, they couldn't make dinner and all of a sudden you're like, whiting them off. Or the guy didn't text you for three hours and next thing you know, the person's been blocked. So I think there's. That there's like the two extremes of staying way too long and like, you know, not. And then going the opposite of not having any kind of capacity or space for anything uncomfortable. So for me it's like, yes, we see people very often that are very clearly. I think the number one question I get is it'll be like a paragraph of how terrible this person is. And they're just, I don't feel heard. They dismiss me. They're super rude to me. They don't call me. They dismiss. They gaslight me. And you're like, okay, so these are all great reasons to walk away. But then the question at the end will say, shop. Blinds.com's Cyber Monday sales event. Now for some of the best deals of the season, a Blinds.com designer blind expert can help you make the perfect selection on your schedule. We can handle everything from measure to your whole home installed for one low cost. With over 25 million windows covered, Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings save up to 50% site wide plus door busters and a free professional measure. Right now@blinds.com rules and restrictions may apply. What do I do? And I think what we see and what I see a lot is there's a lack of self trust, of, oh, I can't make that decision for myself. And so I'm trying to encourage people like, hey, if it doesn't feel right. Then this is the moment to walk away. If you cannot have conflict and repair, if you can't just. If I were dating you, Sean, and you were treating me like absolute shit, and every time I went to you to say something and you were gaslighting me, if I stay, what does that say about me? It's not about shame or blame. I don't. I don't need to have judgment. But what that says is, ooh, boundaries are uncomfortable for me. I learned at a young age that maybe this is all I'm deserving and worthy of because I'm too scared to even walk away. I'm scarcity mindset. I may not find anyone else. So there's a lot of things that start to kind of play in as to why we stay too long.
- [14:27]
Sean
So the conflict is the key. Like, growing from that.
- [14:29]
Sabrina Zohar
Basically, conflict is. That's. That's growth, I hate to say it. And discomfort. Sitting in discomfort. It's like, I do. Do I go work out every day because I. I love how hard it feels to do squats. It's like, no. But I know the end result is it's going to be good for me. It's going to be better. I'm going to yield results. And when it comes to relationships, we grow through what we go through. You grow through repair and conflict. And so when my partner and I have an issue, I could shut my mouth and then just be resentful and walk around like a. Like, just salty. Or I could just be very direct and be like, hey, what you said the other day was really, really hurtful to me, and I just wanted to share how that impacted me and moving forward, instead of saying this, would you mind saying this? That would just be more supportive for me. Right. And you're like, great. I don't have to guess. Thank you for giving me a very clear roadmap of, like, how I can satisfy your needs. And then you have a conversation. Hey, that doesn't work for me. Okay, well, what would work for you? And you come. Because then what happens? After the conflict, I felt so seen, heard, and understood. Thank you for giving me the space to express myself. Thank you for validating me. You start to feel closer to your partner versus you have this conflict, and then you're both. I'm going to walk away, and no one's going to talk about it. You're not actually getting any closer, any deeper.
- [15:34]
Sean
Right. You're just pushing it to the side.
- [15:36]
Sabrina Zohar
Right. And especially if that's a dynamic that we're used to. Right. We have to look at. And this isn't about. I think a lot of people misconstrue attachment theory as like, oh, I don't want to live in the past. Not everything is my childhood. But what we do have to look at is if you're having patterns, where did you learn that behavior from? If you cannot communicate to partners, where did you learn that from? Did you come from a household? And it doesn't mean your parents were bad people. Those are two conflicting thoughts. I can love my parents and also know they didn't teach me what I needed to be taught. And so we also really have to look at that, strip away the shame and blame, and just start to get curious of, like, oh, yeah, when I was a kid, my dad was emotionally unavailable. He never really expressed himself, and when he did, he would walk out. So I learned I'm too much and there's something. Okay, so now I can go and heal those parts and then not project them onto every person I date.
- [16:20]
Sean
Yeah. Because a lot of the stuff as a kid, you kind of project in a relationship, right?
- [16:24]
Sabrina Zohar
Oh, yeah. I mean, let's think about our brain. Our amygdala stops growing when we're six. That's so unfair. Because our prefrontal cortex doesn't grow until we're 28. So the amygdala is where we hold onto feelings and emotions. So if at 4, you would get hit every time you said something, your brain is only going to remember, this isn't safe. And so in when you're 30 and someone says something like your parents did when you were six, your brain is automatically going to shut the prefrontal cortex off and go right into the limbic system because it understands this is too overwhelming. I need to keep them safe.
- [16:54]
Sean
Wow.
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Sabrina Zohar
And it shuts down. So then when we actually have some space and we can say, whoa, whoa. The pinch doesn't match the ouch. I just freaked out on my partner because they said they didn't want to go to dinner where I wanted to go. Right. Okay. Let me start to understand what's happening in my body. So usually where we look is you learned it somewhere, and then your brain holds on to that. And as we get older, because we're so stressed and things, our brain will shut down a lot quicker because it is trying to protect us.
- [17:18]
Sean
Yeah. What do you think of all those tests, like the attachment styles and the love language test? Do you have your partners take those?
- [17:24]
Sabrina Zohar
Honestly? Nah, I. Okay. I think they're important in the Sense to understand yourself. Right. I understand. Like, when I first learned about attachment theory. I'll preface. Prior to that, I thought I was crazy. I thought there was something wrong with me. I just kept looking around, being like, I guess no one else goes through this. I guess I'm just. There's a bad apple. So when I learned that, I was like, I have anxious attachment style, it just made me feel, oh, I'm. I'm not fucked up. There's actually, okay, I can. That's it. But that's where it stops. What I see so often is people use attachment theory to diagnose other people, and that's not what we're doing. If you have so much data that the person you're dating is the avoidant, they're an avoidant, and they did it. Okay, so you know so much about them, but yet now, what about you? Right? And so if you're. If you're acknowledging. And for anyone who doesn't know attachment theory, how you attach to your parents and early childhood and your caregivers, there's three insecure, one secure. So secure attachment. They understand interconnected and interdependence, so you can be alone and also with a partner, and they don't take things as personally. They were taught in the home at a young age that emotions are safe, that you're valid for having them. Then you have the three insecure, you have the avoidant who shuts down. You know, very common that we hear right now. The anxious avoidant trap.
- [18:37]
Sean
Yeah.
- [18:38]
Sabrina Zohar
And they're same. Same, but different. Both of them fueled by the fear of abandonment, fueled by the fear of rejection manifesting differently. One person's outward, one person's inward. Really, where it stems from. So it's important to understand, like, love languages. Important to understand for yourself how do you like to give and receive love? Because, for instance, when I met my partner. Big on cooking.
- [18:57]
Sean
Yeah.
- [18:57]
Sabrina Zohar
Big cooker. And I think it was like our third date, he said, why don't you come over? I'll make you dinner. And he had the movie. And, like, it was a. It was a dinner. This wasn't just like, Netflix and Chill. But we did that for, like four or five dates. And I remember at one point saying, like, hey, I don't. I feel like this is now kind of turning into something casual. And he instantly was like, absolutely, let me take you out. Like, you're right. I. Let me show up in the ways that you need. But had I not looked and gone, wait a minute. That's his love language. Acts of service. He's making me food. He wants to take care of me in that way. Gift giving might not be his thing. And so the reason I think it's important to just learn about them is so that we don't overlook how people are trying to love you in their ways that make them feel comfortable.
- [19:33]
Sean
Right.
- [19:34]
Sabrina Zohar
So gift giving, if you're like, I want flowers. Well, that person might not pay you flowers, but they make your coffee every morning for you, and they make sure that everything's prepped. So can we look at how they're trying to love you and assess if that works for you?
- [19:44]
Sean
Yeah, I love that. Yeah. That was an important test for me, actually.
- [19:47]
Sabrina Zohar
Was it? What did you come up with?
- [19:49]
Sean
I'm acts of service as well. But, you know, other people would have, like, physical touch or something, so you got to love in that way.
- [19:56]
Sabrina Zohar
Curious. Was acts of service for you? Give and receive?
- [19:59]
Sean
Yeah. I think. Yeah. Do you prefer that was number one or two? In both.
- [20:02]
Sabrina Zohar
That's awesome.
- [20:03]
Sean
Yeah.
- [20:04]
Sabrina Zohar
You see what I mean? Like, you learn about yourself and you can become a better partner.
- [20:07]
Sean
No, I learned a lot because physical touch was last for me.
- [20:09]
Sabrina Zohar
Really?
- [20:10]
Sean
For partners I've had, it's been number one for them. So I've had to learn how to adapt, you know?
- [20:14]
Sabrina Zohar
Yeah. Do you resonate with all? Like, did you feel when you were doing this? Like, fuck, yeah. I see the point in this.
- [20:20]
Sean
At first I was like, this is stupid. Like, I'm not gonna lie. Like, why am I taking this? But those tests, you do learn a good amount. I've taken the 16 personalities one also.
- [20:28]
Sabrina Zohar
Oh, yeah?
- [20:28]
Sean
Have you tried that one?
- [20:29]
Sabrina Zohar
I have. I can't. It's the one with the letters.
- [20:30]
Sean
Yeah.
- [20:31]
Sabrina Zohar
Yeah. I keep forgetting. People are like, you're this.
- [20:33]
Sean
Yeah, that one's cool. I love the Dark Triad test, though. I make all my friends take that one.
- [20:37]
Sabrina Zohar
What's that?
- [20:38]
Sean
It measures your worst traits.
- [20:39]
Sabrina Zohar
Shut up.
- [20:40]
Sean
Yeah. Oh, narcissism. Machiavellianism. One other one.
- [20:44]
Sabrina Zohar
Okay. When we're offline, I'm going to get that.
- [20:46]
Sean
Yeah.
- [20:46]
Sabrina Zohar
Because I'm curious.
- [20:47]
Sean
It's a good one to have your friends. Sake.
- [20:49]
Sabrina Zohar
And it's, I think, glad you brought the word up. Narcissism. That has been. That's been a hijacked word. It's a weird word to use around this, but it's been a term that's been so inappropriately used. I don't know about you. If you see that.
- [20:59]
Sean
I see it a lot.
- [21:00]
Sabrina Zohar
Right. I think a lot of people misconstrue someone who's selfish for someone who's narcissistic. As a. I grew up in a household with a narcissistic caregiver, so I very much understand it, and I think it's interesting, again, to learn about it. But when we. If you're diagnosing the person that you're with and you're just so confident to diagnose them, then we really have to look and say, what else can you use that information for?
- [21:22]
Sean
Right. Yeah. People are quick with the labels these days.
- [21:25]
Sabrina Zohar
I'm sure you see it all over. All over every comment. My narcissist. You're like, oh, they're yours. Okay, I didn't realize that. And it's like. And then I'll ask, what made them narcissist? Well, they were super selfish. It's like, that's not a narcissist.
- [21:36]
Sean
Yeah. Because then you combine that with the victim mentality, and they're using these labels as an excuse almost now. And it's like, dude, exactly. You know, I've been labeled so many different things, but I'm not out here using that as a crutch.
- [21:48]
Sabrina Zohar
I remember one person called me a narcissist on the Internet, and I said, can I ask you, what was it about? What made you say that? And they said, well, you talk about yourself. And I was like, oh, my God. Like that. It's just like. I was like, you mean when I was telling a story about my experience on my channel, on my plat. Like, you have to stop. And you're like, okay. That's what I mean by. You just don't understand what that means. And that's okay. There's no shame against that. But don't use words that are very heavy to diagnose other people. And especially in those. Are we dating the same guy? Facebook groups.
- [22:19]
Sean
That's a group.
- [22:20]
Sabrina Zohar
Oh, Sean, what have you not been? Can I let you into the world? Okay, so there are thousands of these groups called Are we dating the same guy? And there's every city, there's a chapter for San Diego and Sunita's, Carlsbad. Like, every town, thousands. And the. Okay in. On paper, I understand the point of these groups. Like, a client I had, she found out her husband was cheating on her from those groups.
- [22:43]
Sean
Really?
- [22:44]
Sabrina Zohar
Five girls had posted this photo, and her and her friend found. It was like, homegirl.
- [22:48]
Sean
No way.
- [22:48]
Sabrina Zohar
Right. So that's how she found out. So I get how sometimes you're like, okay, there is a time and a place, but I've had so many people write in. I've had clients even tell me they'll show me the screenshots and, like, I have nothing to hide. Girls that will post them on that group simply because the guys told her, I want, I'm not interested in seeing you again.
- [23:06]
Sean
What?
- [23:06]
Sabrina Zohar
And girls will say, you know, he's a this and he's such a piece of shit. And they'll go off and they're harassing this guy. Some will post photos. I've had guys that have lost their job because of it, because employers are like, hey, what's happening here? And, like, again, I had one girl saying, like, oh, well, you know, sorry that men have to take accountability. And it's like, yeah, but you're not. It's so easy for you to start spreading. But here's the reality. My partner and I had very different experiences than girls he's dated because girls he's dated have had such high anxiety that they have no problem projecting their onto him. And he'll set a boundary and say, I'm not doing this. They'll villainize him. He didn't want to listen to me. And it's like, that's not. That's not what happened. And so the issue, I think, that we see with those groups is you're getting one side of the story, and then you're villainizing this guy. But we don't really know what happened. We don't know how did you show up? Right. Take a look at those Facebook groups.
- [23:54]
Sean
That's crazy.
- [23:55]
Sabrina Zohar
I actually had to stop. I had a Facebook group for, like, the community. When I first started the podcast last year, I had to get rid of it because it turned into that where it was. And I kept saying, stop posting personal photos, phone numbers, screenshots of these people. That's not. They didn't consent to that. And that is actually a. I would be quite upset if.
- [24:12]
Sean
Yeah, that's not cool. A lot of people badmouth their ex.
- [24:15]
Sabrina Zohar
Yeah. I was gonna say, how do you feel about that? If you were on a date with a girl and she's badmouthing her ex.
- [24:19]
Sean
Huge red flag to me. Like, that's terrible, because that's how they're going to talk about you.
- [24:23]
Sabrina Zohar
My ex called all of his exes crazy on our first date. And I remember being like, oh, oh, my God. I. I can save. I was. Don't worry. I was on the list of crazy by the time we were done with it, because you find out why they're all crazy. I'm a big fan of listen, if you want to talk about like, hey, how'd your last relationship end? And what did it teach you about yourself? It's like, oh yeah, like, you know, I realized we weren't compatible when I went to theory. You're like, okay, cool, this person's growth minded, they've process the relationship next, right? I don't give a about your ex. I don't care about the fact that your ex was this and this and this. Because at the end of the day, I want accountability. If I'm coming to you saying my ex was a narcissist and he was a raging piece of. Okay, well, what was my part in this? I'm not just always a woe is me. Everything happens to me. Well, but I also played a part in this and my part personally because I was. If anyone wants to try and say I'm victim blaming. I. That was personal story. I was super insecure. I was anxious. I had no boundaries. I allowed it. And I really thought him choosing me was more important than me choosing me.
- [25:16]
Sean
Wow. But you took that accountability, right?
- [25:20]
Sabrina Zohar
And like. But that's what I mean by like when you're in a date, imagine you're on. You're like, oh, wait, that's actually a green flag. This person has no problem sharing. Sure, her ex was this, but she understands her part in it. That's more important than. I mean, I've heard some go nightmare stories of women on dates. Have you ever had that where a girl's just like their ex the whole time? What do you do? What do you do?
- [25:38]
Sean
I've heard about it. Yeah.
- [25:39]
Sabrina Zohar
Have you ever had.
- [25:40]
Sean
I haven't. My friends have dealt with that though.
- [25:42]
Sabrina Zohar
Do they leave or do they just entertain it?
- [25:44]
Sean
They just entertain it. Gotta pay the bill and then never talk to them, I guess.
- [25:47]
Sabrina Zohar
And that's where. And then here's the thing, then those girls will post the guys in the Facebook group being like, he ghosted me. He didn't want to see me. And you're like, yeah, but girl, how'd you show up? That's the perfect example of, well, that's only one side of the story, right?
- [26:00]
Sean
What do you think about being friends with exes?
- [26:02]
Sabrina Zohar
I don't get the point. Okay, there's nuance. You have children. That's one thing. Like, obviously you have kids. Do what's best for the children. Doesn't mean you need to be quote unquote friends. You can be cordial. I think friends with an ex, it's the type of thing that if both of you were to let. Hey, you know, both of you are like, hey, I'm just. I'm not feeling this. I think we're better off as friends when both are mutual about that, fine. But the reality is, when you get into a new relationship, you have to be okay with the fact that your new partner might not be okay with that.
- [26:31]
Sean
Right.
- [26:32]
Sabrina Zohar
And there's a time, like. And it's not about your new partners telling you who to be friends with, but I had that. My. My ex and I were really good friends after we broke up because it was very mutual. And when I got with my new partner, he said, listen, it makes me really uncomfortable. Like, you guys had a year relationship. I just. I don't see why you need to be alone with him. I said, okay, fair. I respect you. And I think that is a very valid ask. So I think there is nuance, and it depends, because it's not. It's not necessary to gaslight people of like, oh, what? She's just my friend. Nothing happens. And it's like, yeah, but that's not instilling confidence. You're not making your partner see feel validated. You're gaslighting them to make them feel like they're insane for even asking. So I think if it's an issue, talk about it. And if it's not your friends, you know, if your partner's cool with it, great. I just. I don't personally see the point. Do you?
- [27:14]
Sean
I agree. No, I agree. I wouldn't want my fiance being friends with their ex.
- [27:18]
Sabrina Zohar
Have you ever stayed friends with an ex?
- [27:21]
Sean
Yeah, but I still had feelings for her, so that's what I mean. Like, those feelings are tough to, you know, get away from, so.
- [27:26]
Sabrina Zohar
And usually when it's mutual, you're like, all right, well, yeah, a good life. Like, I'm good.
- [27:31]
Sean
Has the red pill movement brought a lot of hate your way? Like, all this body count stuff and all that?
- [27:36]
Sabrina Zohar
I. Well, that'll be a video I'll be doing soon. So I do thing on body count now. Okay. I am the type of person that if somebody else's body count bothers you, that's you, right? To me, if somebody were to ever judge me, like, I'll be honest. I had my hoe hat on for a long time living in New York. I. Because I connected physically with men. I was insecure, and I had my own trauma, and intimacy was really scary for me. So great. I'll just connect with my body and I'll sleep with you, and then we're Done. And for me to be judged now in my adult life for something that was really coming from a trauma would be highly irresponsible for the other person to do because you're not allowing me to grow. You're not allowing me to evolve and change. You're holding me to the girl that I was, but you're not allowing me to be the woman that I am. And so I think that's where it becomes just dicey. Again. I will respect. If body count is important, fine. That's on you and you and that person. But I hear it all the time. Women on dates saying, I was insulted, especially on a first date. Have you heard about that? People are asking, really? First? Yeah. Wow. First date being like, what's your body count? It's like on a first date, I'm sorry, homie, but you want to never get laid or spoke to again. Don't ask that. Like, it's. If it's that important, ask before you go on the date of like, hey, I'm someone who's a lot more conservative. I really don't want to be with someone that slept around.
- [28:52]
Sean
Right.
- [28:52]
Sabrina Zohar
Sexual health is important to me, but it's still with that, go get tested. Right? Even LabCorp on demand has, like, you can go walk into a clinic now and get your STI testing. So if there are issues, let's talk about it. But I would be curious, for the people that have such an issue with body count, where does it stem from? What's the issue? And like I said, if that's the thing, I respect everybody. Personally, I don't give a fuck. I'm not trying to change other people's mind. But if it doesn't, if it does bother you, say something.
- [29:17]
Sean
It's these podcasts, man. And would you ever go on like a fresh and fit or one of those red pill podcasts to debate them?
- [29:23]
Sabrina Zohar
Honestly, my mama has always taught me, like, you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all the people all the time. And for me, I am much more in the school of thought of, I'm going to resonate, I'm going to speak my truth, and if you want to join me, come. But I don't need to convince you to join me. So I think going on those, could I. Sure. But if somebody is misogynistic or old school or sees either judging people, it's like me having one quick conversation with them isn't going to be doing enough. Like, oh, that person needs therapy.
- [29:53]
Sean
Right.
- [29:54]
Sabrina Zohar
So have you Been on him?
- [29:56]
Sean
No, but I've had a couple of them on my show, I think.
- [29:59]
Sabrina Zohar
Have you?
- [30:00]
Sean
Yeah, not. Not fresh and fit, but a couple of those, like red pill guys. One guy's named Rolo Michael Sartain.
- [30:07]
Sabrina Zohar
Like I said, there's a, there's someone for everybody. You know, it's like, it's the same with these women that want provider mentality. I want someone to do all this and it's like, hey baby, let me just let you know Ain't nothing in life is free. So you want to go for a dude that's gonna pay for everything and take care and you don't have to lift a finger. Well, then what are you doing for him too? Because I think women forget we never were able to vote. Sex was a currency and it wasn't even sometimes by choice. And so oftentimes, up until what we were allowed to have jobs, we didn't have a way of reciprocating back. So it was very well known. Man takes you to dinner, you sleep with him. That's just what the true. That was a transaction that has been going on for decades.
- [30:44]
Sean
Wow, I didn't know that.
- [30:45]
Sabrina Zohar
Very, very. Yeah. If you actually look at like the deep rooted, like sexual history. Yeah. And I'm not saying that's good or bad, but I'm just saying like that's kind of where it's stemmed from. So again, if we're going to come from that, I want the provider mentality, low body count. It's like, okay, well then what else comes with that? Are you going to be cooking and cleaning in the house? Okay, well, if you want a man that's that specific. I'm not going to use any other words. Well then what is he going to. How is he going to treat you like a partner? You think that he's going to let you walk out in whatever you want to wear, but yet this person is upset that if you've had more than one partner before him, so we kind of just have to look at what are we asking for, what are we getting and is there a connection there? And if that works for you and you like that, you do you. Baby, I'm not in your relationship.
- [31:26]
Sean
I. Yeah. Have you ever seen an open relationship work out?
- [31:31]
Sabrina Zohar
Not successfully.
- [31:32]
Sean
Wow.
- [31:32]
Sabrina Zohar
Yeah. I'll be honest.
- [31:33]
Sean
Try that. Right?
- [31:34]
Sabrina Zohar
They try it often. Usually more often than not, one person gets jealous, the other person falls for them. No, again, none of this is black and white. There are so many people out there listening, going, I have an open relationship and it's Great. And it's like, yeah, it's like long distance. Long distance relationships, more often than not don't work out. Right. It's. It's safer to be in a long distance relationship when you have a fear of intimacy. It's easier, whatever. Can it work? Sure. Can I win the lottery? Sure. But am I going to put my paycheck on it? Probably not. What do you think about open relationships?
- [32:01]
Sean
I'm not a fan.
- [32:02]
Sabrina Zohar
Yeah.
- [32:03]
Sean
Yeah.
- [32:03]
Sabrina Zohar
I don't get it.
- [32:04]
Sean
I just. Human nature. You're going to get jealous. Right? There is that debate where like men are programmed. You've probably seen this biologically to reproduce. They're not programmed to be with one person their whole lives. What do you think about that?
- [32:15]
Sabrina Zohar
I think, listen, I understand the biology of things, but I also think that we have evolved and I think that there are ample people to show. Yeah, you're right. There are some people that really are just like, no, like. But even it's funny as I think about it. And I was like, oh, I have some examples of people. And I was like, ooh, every one of those people really needs to get help because a lot of it comes from a deep rooted of like insecurity. I don't want just one partner. I get bored again. If that's something that like biologically feels like it's in alignment with you, just make sure that you have a consenting adult as a partner. That's all I ask for. 18 and over and they're a human. Pretty simple. But for me, I don't know. I think we've also evolved as people. I think what we biologically used to do 200 years ago, now that we have cell phones have completely changed the game. So I think that we can evolve as people. And I think some can, some can't. And it's not just men. I see some women and usually it's a fear of intimacy. That's why they want multiple people is because it's. You don't have to really show full parts of yourself. You can go to different partners. But hey, I'm not a sociologist, right. I don't know the evolution of people. But that would be just the psychological aspect of it. Interesting.
- [33:19]
Sean
Yeah. We're in crazy times right now. Only fans just hit another revenue high.
- [33:22]
Sabrina Zohar
No way.
- [33:23]
Sean
Yeah, 5.4 billion last year.
- [33:25]
Sabrina Zohar
Those girls are making more than more than athletes.
- [33:28]
Sean
They added up all the revenue from NBA players and the of girls were making more.
- [33:33]
Sabrina Zohar
All for showing your butthole on screen, right? And listen again, more power to you. Baby, you take control of your career. You have full autonomy of that. But I mean, let's also be honest, the onlyfans world, like, I know that the porn conversation is a huge one. A lot of women are really against it and all of that. And it's like, okay, I'll be honest. I grew up, my father owned 15 porn theaters in New York.
- [33:54]
Sean
Wow.
- [33:54]
Sabrina Zohar
Yeah. That was like, when he moved to the states when he was younger, he started a bunch of businesses and that was one of them. It was very lucrative and they needed a gay club in New York for 30 years. So I grew up in a bit of a different environment. I understand what it can do, but I also think that for a lot of people that, like, hate on that type of stuff, only fans and, you know, things like that. If it becomes an issue in your romantic relationship, like if your partner doesn't want to have sex with you anymore because of an only fans girl, okay, that's an issue. But I know that men are very visual creatures and men are. It's a lot of visual. So to me, if you're getting visual stimulation from that, and especially if you're single, I'm like, ah, I don't care. But just manage your expectations that most women are not like that, you know?
- [34:32]
Sean
Agreed. What's your opinion on your partner watching porn? Some woman consider it cheating?
- [34:37]
Sabrina Zohar
I'll be honest. I watch porn. Oh, yeah, I do. I. Okay. A woman taking pleasuring herself is a really empowering act. And for me, it's a way I can connect with myself again. And for me, it's a way that I can outlet fantasies that homegirl is never going to do. I have some fantasies that I watch on those and I'm like, oh my God, I want to do this. If you even considered it with me right now, I'd probably go into a shell and hide. So for me personally, like, if my partner wants to watch something, I don't take it as an offense because he still wants to have sex with me all the goddamn time. So I'm happy. I'm fine. If he wants to have him night on him because I was too tired that night, go have it.
- [35:11]
Sean
Yeah.
- [35:12]
Sabrina Zohar
I think like I said, where it becomes an issue is when your partner no longer wants to be with you or has unrealistic expectations or expects that you're going to do what they're doing, then that's. I think, when it becomes an issue, that makes sense. How do you feel about that?
- [35:24]
Sean
Probably similar. I try not to watch it just because of the Mental. There's a lot of studies now on it, how it's affecting the brain.
- [35:32]
Sabrina Zohar
Totally.
- [35:32]
Sean
So it seems pretty damaging if you're like watching it daily, consistently.
- [35:35]
Sabrina Zohar
Exactly. I was going to say like anything. We have to have boundaries. Right. Like I might watch something once a month, you know, just to be like, oh God, that was a fun fantasy. And then back to my day. But like, if it became a day to day thing, you're like, well, there's.
- [35:50]
Sean
Guys out here that I know doing three a day, like four a day.
- [35:52]
Sabrina Zohar
No.
- [35:53]
Sean
Isn't that crazy?
- [35:54]
Sabrina Zohar
See, that's where we have to say it's dangerous. And. But I'd still go. And it's like, those are the same people. It's like an addiction is an addiction. Your brain is going to get caught on an addiction loop, whether it be drugs, alcohol, porn or a person. Yeah, we have the chemicals that get released. We have different aspects. So I think for those people it's like that's very much. They're numbing, they're trying to avoid dealing with other things. And it's. And also when you masturbate, you release all those, all those hormones. So it feels nice.
- [36:19]
Sean
Absolutely. What's your, what's been your experience with Shark Tank? How was that process? I've had a couple of those guys on the show.
- [36:24]
Sabrina Zohar
Oh, man. Oh, that's the devastating part of this conversation.
- [36:27]
Sean
Oh, really?
- [36:28]
Sabrina Zohar
Yeah.
- [36:28]
Sean
Didn't go well.
- [36:29]
Sabrina Zohar
Well. So 2022, March 2022. I have my clothing company called Software and I went through every round, I got through everything and they were like, literally no notes. Like I even did my pitch and they were like, perfect, great.
- [36:41]
Sean
You didn't prepare.
- [36:42]
Sabrina Zohar
I, of course, you know, but I meant like every. So the way that it works with Shark Tank is you go into. So February of 2022 is when the process starts. You have about 60 different meetings between then and when you get on set.
- [36:54]
Sean
Wow.
- [36:55]
Sabrina Zohar
It's insane. Every week you're getting a new email from them and it's like you're seeing if you made it to the next level. So for me, for a while I was like, hey. And I just, I kept making it to the next level. Cool, cool, cool. Then you have the big call with everyone that's on it and you start to see who else is on there and you're like, oh, cool. I saw a couple of friends on there. We were texting each other. We have to be very hush hush. I couldn't tell anybody about it. And so then you go through another round of like six Interviews where you have to do your pitch over and over and take notes. I did it. I remember doing. And I. All I got was. It was perfect. We can't wait. Perfect. Great. Done. Day comes, here's your schedule. Day one of filming. Sabrina, we can't wait to have you. I get there at 10am, I'm in the room, I'm shitting bricks. I am sweating like a whore in church. I was doing my meditations and I was like, mark Cuban, you're mine. I'm gonna get you. And I had. I went on set, they show us, they do the tour. They, sabrina, here's your design, here's your stuff. All of that amazing. Calling my mom, I'm crying in the room. All my friends were prepping. I get taken on set. I hear a pitch going and they're like, you're next. Okay, cool. Put me in the green room. I go to the bathroom, I'm like, oh, my God. There's the Mark Cuban's room and there's Lori's room. And I was like, holy. Like, I'm here. Hair and makeup comes in. Done. Outfit comments. And done. They come in, prep me one more time. You ready, Sabrina? Let's go. I'm sitting there for 25 minutes. What's going on? Why am I. Where's. Where's my chance? Comes in right after. I'm so sorry. This is our least favorite part of the job. We're not gonna have time today to put you on. We've already. It's past 6:00. And I was like, I. I've been here for like nine hours. I was like, I've been sitting here waiting. Well, that's why we say there's no guarantees. But don't worry, we have tons of spots and we're gonna. We're gonna fit you in. I left, and as I walked out, I heard someone else pitching, and I was like, you know what? You gave my fucking spot up because I was local. So they prioritize if they're gonna fly you in. And they claim no. They claim, no, no, everyone's equal. It's like, God, get bent. That person flew in. You spent money on them. I was local in la, so you didn't have to spend money on me. And I went through the another three weeks and I was dark.
- [38:53]
Sean
I was three more weeks of that. Like, you went in every day and they.
- [38:56]
Sabrina Zohar
No, the way that they do it, you're on call every day. And so every day I had to let people know at any second, like one of My friends did it. She was on a hike and they said, can you get here in an hour? And she's like, somehow I will. Walked on, got the. And did it.
- [39:07]
Sean
Wow.
- [39:08]
Sabrina Zohar
So that was my. I was. And she was a friend. We were talking at the time. She's like, you got this. And like, it's a very lonely time because you can't talk to anybody about it with the NDA. And so you're. You're kind of like, shit, I'm stuck in my own loop, right? And so every day for three weeks, it was another day of no, another day of no. And then I got the call. Tomorrow's the last day of filming. You've got the last spot, Sabrina, we're gonna get you on. And I was like, just cheering. This was my. This was before I had any of the. What I have now. So I only had my clothing company. I was like, okay, we're made in America. We're sustainable. Like, I get my chance, right? I'm a solopreneur. Did this all with nothing. Night before, guess who gets a call. I'm so sorry, we're gonna have to give your spot up.
- [39:43]
Sean
Oh, my goodness.
- [39:44]
Sabrina Zohar
And I went, I fucking went off on her. I was like, that is disgusting. And I told her, very straightforward. She says, well, would you want to try for next year? I said, go yourself. You think I want to try for next year? I said to go. Sure enough, a month later, I started my tick tock and here we are.
- [39:58]
Sean
Wow.
- [39:58]
Sabrina Zohar
So I'm grateful it didn't happen, but I also know that it was really, really tough.
- [40:04]
Sean
That's a crazy experience. So if they hit you up right now, what would you say?
- [40:06]
Sabrina Zohar
I get you.
- [40:07]
Sean
You're still bitter about it.
- [40:08]
Sabrina Zohar
I would not. Because, one, I don't trust them. Two, the reality is I had to let that burn. And what I mean by that is I was holding on so tight that this company was going to be what put me on the map and this was going to be it. That I didn't hold space for the fact that that's not my future. I love my company. I'm selling it right now. I don't have the bandwidth. My other. My career now is so much more lucrative, more fulfilling.
- [40:30]
Sean
Right.
- [40:30]
Sabrina Zohar
I love it.
- [40:31]
Sean
I started with clothing too.
- [40:32]
Sabrina Zohar
Did you?
- [40:32]
Sean
Yeah.
- [40:32]
Sabrina Zohar
No. What were you doing?
- [40:33]
Sean
I was doing jerseys. Yeah, Sports jerseys.
- [40:35]
Sabrina Zohar
So, you know.
- [40:36]
Sean
I know very similar path.
- [40:38]
Sabrina Zohar
Where were you manufacturing?
- [40:39]
Sean
China and Pakistan.
- [40:40]
Sabrina Zohar
Okay. I was doing everything in la.
- [40:42]
Sean
Oh, nice.
- [40:43]
Sabrina Zohar
It was expensive, but it was worth. I was stoked. Sustainable, high Quality, everything.
- [40:46]
Sean
It's tough though with the margins.
- [40:48]
Sabrina Zohar
It's insane. And like trying to scale it. You need multi millions of dollars to even just get anyone to come to your website. Like, I was stoked I did a million during COVID by myself, hand tie dying. Like I was really proud of what I was able to do. But to get that to, you know, 50, 60 million dollar company as a solo person with no money, no investment, nothing, it's almost impossible, truly. Unless you're just that lucky. But I'm really grateful it didn't happen because if that's why if they called me now, I'd be like, that doesn't align with the future.
- [41:14]
Sean
They hit me up too. I'm glad I didn't go through this now. Wow. When did 60 interviews? Maybe three, four years ago.
- [41:20]
Sabrina Zohar
So I was 20, 22. So probably beat me by like a year or two. It's insane the process you have to go through now. Don't get me wrong, like I had I been able to go through the experience in totality, would have been cool. But those wasn't. It wasn't in the cards for me.
- [41:34]
Sean
Absolutely. Now you got a killer podcast and.
- [41:37]
Sabrina Zohar
Now I just talk about a completely different career. And that's something that when it comes to dating, I try to like help people with. Let it burn, Let it burn it. If something's not working out, if the career, if everything feels like an uphill battle, that's when we have to stop and be like, okay, maybe there's something else out there for me.
- [41:53]
Sean
Absolutely.
- [41:53]
Sabrina Zohar
Right.
- [41:54]
Sean
Yeah. Closing messages. Where can people find you? It's been a pleasure.
- [41:57]
Sabrina Zohar
Thanks, Sean. So closing messages would just like, man, at the end of the day, focus on becoming the best fucking version of yourself so that you can then be the best partner to an amazing person that's trying to come into your life as well. Because at the end of the day, we have no control over anybody but ourselves. And that is really the priority and that's where we need to put our focus on. And so anytime for anybody, if you're focused on why are they? I want you to instantly reframe that to I don't like this why are they Means you're not taking any ownership and accountability of what's happening for you. I don't like that they do this starts to understand, okay, what don't I like about it? And you can start to understand yourself.
- [42:29]
Sean
Love that. That's such a simple shift too, but it can go a long way.
- [42:32]
Sabrina Zohar
Huge with my friends. Her name is Britt Frank. She's a neuropsychotherapist and she taught me that. And she was like. Because I worked with children and I started to see they don't care why their parents died. They don't like it and they're uncomfortable. And so we can understand ourselves so much more when we really get that, like, our brain's neuroplastic. You can heal all of this. Just take some work, choose your heart.
- [42:49]
Sean
Love it.
- [42:50]
Sabrina Zohar
So, yeah, you can find me the Sabrina Zohar show on Instagram. As you know, when you have different handles, you're like, Instagram is the Sabrina Zohar Show. That's the name of the podcast and Spotify and all that stuff. Fun stuff. And then Sabrina Zohar on all the other Tick Tock and Insta.
- [43:03]
Sean
Perfect. We'll link below. Thanks for coming on.
- [43:04]
Sabrina Zohar
Thanks.
- [43:04]
Sean
Yep. Thanks for watching, guys. That was awesome. Check out the links below. See you tomorrow.