Podcast
Directionally Correct, A People Intelligence Podcast
Hosted by WRKdefined Podcast Network · EN
Directionally Correct is the #1 people intelligence podcast in the world. Hosted by Cole Napper, the podcast dives into people intelligence, workforce planning, behavioral science, and talent analytics, helping leaders navigate the future of AI in the workplace with insight and a dash of fun. To find out more, check out colenapper.com
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The ROI of People Analytics from Aptitude Research - Madeline Laurano - #183
5d ago01:06:40Summary readyThanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect! Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Madeline Laurano, Founder and Chief Analyst at Aptitude Research! Host Cole Napper sits down with Madeline to unpack the real ROI of people analytics, drawing from Aptitude Research’s findings that only about 18 percent of HR leaders even track it while talent acquisition leaders lag further behind. They explore the critical gap between traditional HR metrics like time-to-fill that business executives largely ignore and the outcomes that actually matter at the C-suite level—retention, productivity, revenue impact, and cost. The conversation digs into how the pandemic-era technology buying spree left many organizations with underused systems whose data makes little sense, creating barriers that people analytics teams must now navigate by collaborating more closely with CFOs rather than operating in silos. Madeline and Cole contrast how HR leaders and analytics practitioners define ROI, emphasizing costs, benefits to the business and employees, and realistic payback periods that can shrink to months with AI rather than the multi-year horizons once common in HR tech. They discuss the need for ongoing measurement instead of once-a-year calculations, the value of distinguishing direct from indirect returns, and the simple power of “journaling” executive priorities to build credibility. Strategic workforce planning emerges as both a long-standing passion and source of frustration for Madeline—too often treated as a start-and-stop exercise triggered by layoffs or relocations—yet newly urgent amid AI-driven restructuring of how work and tasks get done. Cole outlines the extensive data required to assess AI’s true workforce impact: third-party skills and task information, actual usage from tools like Gemini or Claude, internal productivity metrics, non-employee labor contributions, and full cost comparisons including human labor versus AI tokens. Vendors claiming to have solved this, they agree, simply do not yet possess that complete picture. The pair also examine what it means to be an independent HR industry analyst: conducting quantitative surveys, qualitative interviews, and endless vendor demos to deliver market clarity and informed forecasts, while relying on hard-won judgment and discernment that years of experience—and even newly minted sharp analysts—can cultivate. Side conversations at small dinners and informal gatherings often reveal more about real buying decisions, organizational politics, and vendor positioning than formal research alone. Looking ahead, they explore the shift from people analytics toward people intelligence, where human judgment, context, and gut feel complement AI rather than being replaced by it, and why positioning AI as a tool serving people rather than an equal collaborator remains essential. Practical AI agent use cases that already work—highly focused, low-risk, end-to-end tasks such as candidate sourcing or frontline shift scheduling—demonstrate how technology can restore autonomy and meaningfully improve workers’ lives. Additional threads cover the declining relevance of college rankings beyond the top twenty for early-career hiring, the salary-equivalent value of well-designed jobs that offer variety, learning, and initiative, the underappreciated strategic role of organization design, and a proposed AI-era HR operating model built around workforce intelligence, capability architecture, and strategy. Throughout, Madeline shares insights from her role as MC and product judge at the HR Technology Conference and the messy current state of agentic AI that demands better governance and orchestration if the industry is to move beyond chaos. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
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The State of Workforce Planning in 2026 - Nick Kennedy - #182
2w ago01:09:31Summary readyThanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect! Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Nick Kennedy, CEO of The Workforce Planning Institute! In this timely conversation, Cole Napper and Nick dive deep into the State of Workforce Planning Profession Report, revealing key insights on growth and challenges. The report shows massive variability in team sizes with no standard model—some 10,000-employee organizations run teams of six while smaller ones have just one or two. Job ads indicate strong expansion, post-COVID recovery, and 166% growth in APAC driven by aging workforce focus, local training, and Australian pioneers like Alicia Roach and Peter House. Nick explains why executive buy-in remains hard: SWP needs direct senior leader access, which layers dilute in massive firms. Midsize organizations around 50-100k employees often have larger median teams as they've matured the function longer, unlike giants still focused on operational planning. The episode explores centralized to federated models that build business accountability while keeping central guidance. It celebrates SWP Conference growth in Chicago, London, and Sydney, with anchored locations driving momentum and maturing content that closes practitioner gaps. Standout sessions from Target and McDonald's plus Five Eyes military collaboration highlight global relevance. Nick expanded the portfolio with interconnected events on people analytics, AI, talent, and capability under one ticket, embracing the golden triangle converging into workforce intelligence. Cole and Nick align on this convergence, discussing talent acquisition feeding market insights, analytics shifting to scenarios, and behavioral science for stakeholder influence. Regional differences reflect geopolitics and healthcare but common challenges like Workday foster global sharing via the Institute. Nick shares his entrepreneurial journey founding the Institute as a global body. From practitioner consulting, a botched tender prompted a pivot to community: collaborate over compete, democratize best practices, and support professionals thrust accidentally into roles. The Institute offers training, education, lifetime memberships, and a home for the profession without prescribing one right way. Personal touches include Nick's morning productivity, overcoming sleep paralysis by cutting alcohol, and Top Gear car passion. In Cole's Corner they discuss fears, rapid fire on careers and characters, plus BCG HR trends where SWP ranks high alongside rising talent and org design topics. AI workforce transformation gets optimistic treatment—break down roles, skill shifts, and buy/build plans. The Tampa Bay Rays Moneyball evolution sparks talk on variety, configuration, and AI-enabled experimentation for competitive chaos. This episode delivers practical wisdom for SWP maturity, convergence, and leading uncertainty. Nick's global trends and community insights offer a clear roadmap. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
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Is People Analytics Having a Mid-Life Crisis? & Employee Listening at Netflix - Colby Nesbitt - #181
3w ago01:38:44Summary readyThanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect! Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Colby Nesbitt, Senior Manager of Employee Listening at Netflix! In this wide-ranging conversation, Cole Napper and Colby dive deep into whether People Analytics is having a full-blown midlife crisis. They explore how the field was built on the assumption that more headcount equals more productivity, an idea that's decoupling in the age of AI and shifting economics. Colby and Yuyan Sun's recent work argues we should move beyond headcount metrics to measuring productive capacity—the tasks, value, costs, and risks executed by humans and AI alike. Revenue per employee benchmarks are climbing, and companies are now rewarded for leaner operations, forcing People Analytics to reinvent itself or risk irrelevance. The discussion gets spicy on the future of HR operating models. Colby envisions intelligence layers collapsing across functions, with HRBPs empowered by data while shared services get automated and centers of excellence hollowed out by AI. They debate how People Analytics, L&D, recruiting, and talent management might evolve into a more unified, boundary-spanning intelligence function. Colby shares insights from her unique journey as an IO psychologist at a performance management company, highlighting the science-practitioner gap and the humility required when moving from academia to startups and now Netflix. A highlight is the backstory of Colby's wildly popular SIOP session inspired by Hot Ones—complete with panelists eating increasingly spicy wings while delivering unfiltered takes on embedding with IT/data science, revisiting psychological contracts, and the value of failed experiments and humanizing conferences. Colby recounts changing flights for sessions and the genuine wisdom mixed with hilarity, like JP Elliott sharing Taco Bell taco-making hacks. They tackle Netflix's iconic culture memo, emphasizing that culture must be deliberately cultivated as a product, not owned solely by HR, and why portability across companies is tricky. Colby reflects on her NYT-profiled high school years, intrinsic motivation drawn from running as a metaphor for life, and the joy of big questions in her Substack Variance Explained. Sports analogies abound: why professional sports serve as a proxy for war and data-rich playground for studying leadership, teamwork, and performance—but why they're imperfect metaphors for work due to radical transparency in pay and metrics. Performance distributions spark debate—is it a power law for outputs or normal for behaviors? They unpack compensation tensions between equity, proportionality, procedural vs. distributive justice, and whether high performers are underpaid relative to their value. Colby challenges the field on relevance, questioning why IO psychology settles for modest predictive validities and comfortable topics instead of tackling zeitgeist issues. Cole shares lessons from implementing 360 feedback that failed in reality, underscoring first-principles thinking. Additional gems include listening for capability beyond sentiment, non-response bias in surveys, disembodiment of knowledge work, off-duty deviance in the WFH era, and Price's Law on outputs driving disproportionate impact. Colby stresses writing for intrinsic reasons—what only you can contribute—while navigating power laws in content creation. This episode is a masterclass in big ideas, self-reflection, and forward momentum for the field. From AI's impact on work systems to chaos as a ladder for builders who entered People Analytics early, Colby and Cole emphasize curiosity, first-principles, and using this transformative moment to take big swings. Whether you're rethinking metrics, HR structure, employee listening, or your own career, this conversation delivers fresh perspectives grounded in real experience at Netflix and beyond. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
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What Analytics Do Startups & PE-Backed Firms Need? - Andrew Bartlow - #180
4w ago01:26:08Summary readyThanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect! Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Andrew Bartlow, Operating Partner & Senior Advisor at Altamont Capital Partners; Co-Founder, People Leader Accelerator! In this episode, Cole Napper sits down with Andrew Bartlow for a wide-ranging conversation on what HR and people analytics leaders can learn from the world of venture-backed startups, private equity, and high-growth technology companies. Drawing on decades of experience spanning engineering, HR leadership, venture-backed software companies, private equity portfolio operations, and executive coaching, Andrew explains why context—not best practices—should drive every people decision. Together, they unpack how venture capital, private equity, and public companies operate under fundamentally different business models, why HR leaders must understand investor expectations, and how those realities should shape workforce strategy, talent priorities, and the metrics that matter. Andrew demystifies concepts like bootstrapping, exits, venture funding, private equity ownership, and startup ecosystems while explaining how those forces influence executive decision-making and the role HR plays in creating business value. The discussion explores why business acumen is the defining capability for modern HR leaders and why people analytics should always begin with understanding how the company creates value. Rather than chasing universal scorecards or generic best practices, Andrew argues that every metric should align with the organization's current business context. They debate which workforce measures truly matter—including headcount versus plan, critical hiring progress, labor cost as a percentage of revenue, productivity, profitability, and growth—and why commonly reported metrics like eNPS often receive far more attention than they deserve. Cole and Andrew also explore how startup environments create entirely different talent dynamics than mature enterprises, why employee turnover is often driven more by external alternatives than internal dissatisfaction, and how labor markets, organizational stage, investor pressure, and company culture influence retention. They discuss talent density, organizational design, multi-incumbent roles, workforce planning, performance management, and why many HR teams mistakenly optimize for activities that executives value least. The conversation also covers Andrew's entrepreneurial journey building an HR technology startup, lessons learned from failure, the realities of software entrepreneurship, and why founder experience fundamentally changes how leaders think about business. They discuss AI's growing impact on HR, how automation will reshape business partner roles, why judgment remains uniquely human, and what tomorrow's HR leaders must do to remain indispensable as AI increasingly handles transactional work. Andrew also shares the philosophy behind People Leader Accelerator, how the program develops high-impact HR executives, why contextual thinking separates exceptional leaders from average ones, and what future HR professionals should prioritize if they want lasting influence inside their organizations. Whether you work in people analytics, HR business partnering, organizational effectiveness, workforce planning, talent strategy, executive leadership, or simply want to better understand how high-growth companies think about people and performance, this episode offers a practical masterclass in aligning HR with business outcomes in the AI era. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
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Is People Intelligence the Future? Unpacking a Manifesto - Cole Napper & Alexis Fink - #179
Jun 2900:57:34Summary readyThanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect ! Check out our latest HR Tech Voices episode of 2026! In a special twist, host, Cole Napper, steps into the guest seat as he’s interviewed by special guest host, Alexis Fink, Founder of Propeller Insights and Co-Founder of the Data Driven HR Academy! We explore what "people intelligence" really means, Cole's People Intelligence Manifesto, and why people analytics isn't dead but instead is evolving into its next chapter. At the center of the conversation is Cole's People Intelligence Manifesto and the ideas that inspired it. Rather than arguing that people analytics is dead, Cole explains why the discipline is entering a new era where AI fundamentally changes how organizations collect, analyze, and act on workforce data. He introduces his vision for people intelligence as the convergence of people analytics, talent intelligence, workforce planning, and behavioral science into a unified function capable of driving faster, smarter business decisions. Alexis challenges many of the manifesto's boldest claims, leading to a thoughtful discussion about why organizations should stop treating dashboards as the ultimate deliverable and instead focus on creating business impact through decision support, organizational change, and intelligence. They explore why AI will increasingly automate descriptive reporting while elevating the importance of asking better questions, influencing leaders, and translating data into action. The discussion also examines why industrial-organizational psychology is becoming more important—not less—in the AI era. As work itself is redesigned around skills, tasks, jobs, and intelligent systems, they explain why expertise in job analysis, organizational design, behavioral science, and workforce strategy will become even more valuable than traditional reporting capabilities. Throughout the episode, Cole and Alexis debate whether people analytics professionals should remain scorekeepers or become active players helping organizations shape strategy and transformation. They discuss the responsibility of analytics leaders to create shared meaning from data, challenge executive assumptions when necessary, and guide organizations through one of the largest technological shifts in the history of work. The conversation also explores the growing gap between research and practice, why collaboration between academics and practitioners remains difficult, and how organizations can better bridge evidence-based science with real-world business decisions. They discuss the future of people analytics teams, the changing skills professionals should develop, the role of AI-native technology platforms, and why today's disruption creates enormous opportunity for those willing to evolve. Whether you're a people analytics leader, HR executive, workforce planner, organizational effectiveness professional, IO psychologist, HR technologist, or simply curious about how AI is reshaping the future of work, this episode offers an honest and thought-provoking look at where the profession is headed and why its next chapter may be even more exciting than its first. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
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Is a Digital Twin Coming for You & Your Job? - Allen Kamin - #178
Jun 2201:12:47Summary readyThanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect ! Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Allen Kamin, Practice Leader, Organizational Effectiveness at Oracle! In this wide-ranging and thought-provoking conversation, Cole Napper sits down with Allen Kamin to explore some of the biggest questions facing people analytics, organizational effectiveness, workforce strategy, and the future of work in the age of AI. Drawing on a career that spans Oracle, Google, GE, consulting, and decades of involvement in industrial-organizational psychology, Allen shares lessons from the front lines of organizational transformation and explains why many companies may be focusing on the wrong problems as AI rapidly reshapes how work gets done. The discussion begins with one of Allen’s most influential ideas: the concept of the digital twin. Long before generative AI, large language models, and AI agents entered the mainstream, Allen was exploring how organizations could create digital representations of workers based on the behavioral data and “digital exhaust” employees generate every day. Together, Cole and Allen unpack what digital twins actually mean, how employee monitoring technologies have evolved, where organizations may be overreaching, and whether AI systems will ever be capable of fully replacing knowledge workers. Allen reflects on how his original predictions have aged over the past decade, what he got right, what surprised him, and why the emergence of agentic AI may fundamentally alter how organizations make decisions, collaborate, and distribute work between humans and machines. The conversation then shifts into several of Allen’s recent articles and thought leadership pieces. He explains his concept of the “day after problem” in people analytics and argues that the field has become overly focused on building dashboards and delivering data while often neglecting the harder challenge of influencing decisions and changing organizational outcomes. As AI makes reporting easier than ever, Allen argues that the future of people analytics will be determined not by better dashboards but by better decisions. Cole and Allen also discuss why many HR systems are optimized for approval rather than actual use, why organizations often design solutions from the inside out instead of the outside in, and how excessive complexity can undermine even the most technically sound programs. They explore the importance of user-centered design, manager adoption, and balancing scientific rigor with practical utility. The discussion expands into systems thinking and organizational effectiveness as Allen shares his perspective that every function within HR can be doing its job perfectly while the organization as a whole still fails. Using examples from sports, large global enterprises, and executive leadership teams, he explains why organizations need better mechanisms for prioritization, governance, and cross-functional alignment. Along the way, Allen reflects on his career journey, his involvement in the industrial-organizational psychology community, the value of professional relationships, lessons learned from consulting and corporate leadership roles, and his perspective on what separates meaningful work from merely productive work. The episode concludes with a lively discussion on AI, workforce planning, employee experience, organizational culture, executive leadership, employee listening, engagement research, career development, and the future role of people analytics in an increasingly complex business environment. Whether you're a people analytics leader, HR executive, workforce planner, organizational psychologist, consultant, manager, or simply someone fascinated by how AI is changing work, this episode offers a thoughtful and practical look at where organizations are headed next. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
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The Skills vs Tasks Debate We Need - Angela Le Mathon & Sandra Loughlin - #177
Jun 1501:06:24Summary readyThanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect ! Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guests, Angela Le Mathon, VP, Workforce Intelligence & Insights at Walmart & Sandra Loughlin, Chief Learning Scientist at EPAM! In this wide-ranging and highly thought-provoking conversation, Cole Napper sits down with two of the most influential voices shaping the future of workforce intelligence, skills strategy, organizational design, and AI-enabled work. Together, they tackle one of the biggest debates currently unfolding across HR, people analytics, workforce planning, and business leadership: What is the true unit of work in the AI era? Is the future built around skills, tasks, jobs, agents, or something entirely different? Sandra explains why skills remain one of the most important—and misunderstood—constructs in organizational science. She explores why skills are measurable despite being latent constructs, why organizations must improve how they identify and validate skills, and why skills data may become foundational to workforce decision-making in the years ahead. Angela brings a complementary perspective focused on tasks, work decomposition, and business impact, explaining why tasks have become central to many AI transformation conversations and how organizations can think more systematically about measuring and redesigning work. The discussion expands into the rapidly evolving relationship between humans and AI. Cole, Angela, and Sandra examine whether AI agents should be treated as workers or technology, the psychological implications of anthropomorphizing AI, and why organizations must be careful not to lose the uniquely human elements of collaboration, judgment, learning, creativity, and meaning-making. The conversation also explores how AI may fundamentally reshape HR itself. The group discusses whether traditional HR operating models remain fit for purpose, how AI could force organizations to rethink decades-old assumptions about work and workforce management, and why understanding work at a far more granular level may become a strategic necessity. Along the way, they debate organizational incentives, AI adoption realities, employee concerns, workforce transformation maturity, and the gap between vendor promises and practical implementation. Angela shares insights from Walmart’s perspective on human-centered AI adoption, highlighting why technology should ultimately serve employees rather than replace them. Sandra introduces emerging ideas around AI-native organizations, workforce intelligence, and the concept of a “Knowledge Office”—a future organizational capability designed to sense, interpret, activate, and sustain value from enterprise knowledge and data. The discussion also dives into skills architectures, capability orchestration, adaptive labor models, organizational learning, employee surveillance concerns, workforce data infrastructure, talent mobility, knowledge management, and the growing importance of understanding how work actually gets done rather than relying on outdated job descriptions and static organizational structures. Whether you're a people analytics leader, CHRO, workforce planner, learning leader, HR executive, organizational scientist, consultant, or business executive trying to navigate AI transformation, this episode offers a nuanced and refreshingly honest conversation about what is changing, what is not changing, and what organizations must understand if they hope to successfully redesign work for the future. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
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People Insights at HP & The Value of Data Security - Amy Stevenson - #176
Jun 801:05:32Summary readyThanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect ! Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Amy Stevenson, Senior Director People Insights at HP! In this wide-ranging and highly practical conversation, Cole Napper welcomes back Amy Stevenson for a discussion that spans the evolution of people analytics, the realities of building enterprise-scale analytics capabilities, the future of AI in HR, and the leadership lessons that come from spending years turning strategy into execution. Amy reflects on her journey building and scaling HP’s People Insights function over more than five years, sharing what it takes to create a sustainable analytics organization capable of delivering value in a rapidly changing business environment. Drawing on experience across multiple industries and leadership roles, she explains why successful people analytics teams must think beyond dashboards and reporting and instead focus on long-term capability building, organizational influence, and business impact. A major theme throughout the discussion is the challenge of balancing innovation with governance. Amy provides a thoughtful perspective on the realities of working with sensitive workforce data, discussing the distinctions between privacy and security, the complexities of role-based access, and why HR data presents unique challenges compared with other enterprise data domains. She also explains why partnerships with legal, privacy, cybersecurity, IT, finance, and enterprise technology teams are becoming increasingly important as organizations develop broader AI and data strategies. The conversation explores one of the most debated questions facing analytics leaders today: build versus buy. Amy shares how HP approached developing internal capabilities, the role of proprietary intellectual property, and how leaders can evaluate whether internally developed tools and methodologies truly create strategic advantage. She also discusses the importance of peer networks, professional communities, and trusted relationships in helping analytics leaders validate ideas, exchange knowledge, and avoid common pitfalls. Cole and Amy spend significant time examining the impact of generative AI on people analytics. They discuss governance models, emerging organizational structures for AI oversight, the challenges of integrating HR data into enterprise AI ecosystems, and how leaders can responsibly explore new use cases while maintaining ethical standards and stakeholder trust. Amy argues that while AI will undoubtedly transform work, its greatest value may come from freeing professionals to spend more time on deeper thinking, creativity, and problem solving. Beyond technology, the discussion repeatedly returns to leadership. Amy emphasizes the importance of relationships, credibility, and organizational trust as the foundations of successful analytics programs. She shares insights on gaining recognition for analytics work, influencing stakeholders, navigating enterprise transformation efforts, and ensuring that people analytics functions become trusted strategic partners rather than simply technical support teams. The episode also ventures into talent, learning, and career development. Amy and Cole debate hiring for potential versus hiring for immediate qualifications, discuss what distinguishes exceptional performers, and explore how broad experiences often create stronger leaders than narrow specialization. They also examine the future career paths available to analytics professionals and why developing business breadth may be just as important as deep technical expertise. As always, the conversation blends practical advice, intellectual curiosity, humor, and reflection, offering valuable lessons for analytics practitioners, HR leaders, and anyone interested in how organizations can better use data, technology, and human insight to make better decisions. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
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The Power of Us & Social Identity at Work - Jay Van Bavel - #175
Jun 100:58:26Summary readyThanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect ! Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, Jay Van Bavel, Professor of Psychology & Neural Science at NYU and Author of “The Power of Us”! In this wide-ranging and deeply thought-provoking conversation, Cole Napper sits down with Jay Van Bavel to unpack one of the most important—and often misunderstood—forces shaping organizations, workplaces, and society today: identity. Drawing from decades of research in psychology, neuroscience, group behavior, and conflict, Jay explains why identity is far more than an academic concept—it shapes how we think, what we value, who we trust, and how organizations succeed or fail. At the center of the discussion is a powerful idea: we are shaped by the groups we join. Jay explains how identities act like lenses through which we interpret the world, influencing behavior, priorities, and even morality. Whether in workplaces, families, professional communities, or social groups, the identities we adopt quietly shape our decisions and relationships in ways most people underestimate. Cole and Jay explore one of the defining workplace challenges of the modern era: rising polarization, incivility, and declining trust. Jay shares research on why remote work, shrinking social circles, and fragmented organizational identities may be contributing to lower cooperation and weaker connections at work. The discussion reframes psychological safety—not as avoiding conflict, but as creating environments where people can challenge ideas, disagree productively, and take interpersonal risks without fear. The episode also dives into inclusion, bias, and organizational performance. Jay explains why diverse teams only outperform when paired with shared identity, inclusive norms, and psychological safety. He offers a nuanced perspective on why some approaches to DEI created backlash, what organizations misunderstood, and how leaders can foster inclusion in ways grounded in science rather than ideology. Cole and Jay examine the hidden power of dissent, asking why organizations often punish the very people who care most about the group. Jay shares practical strategies for avoiding groupthink, encouraging constructive disagreement, and building cultures where dissent strengthens decision-making rather than undermining cohesion. The conversation also explores why social skills may matter more than technical skills in the future of work, how Gen Z’s changing relationship with in-person interaction is affecting workplaces, and why relationship-building may become one of the most valuable capabilities in an AI-driven world. Along the way, they discuss conformity, culture fit, social media, moralization, and even the surprising story behind the rivalry that created Adidas and Puma as a lesson in identity and belonging. If you work in HR, people analytics, organizational psychology, talent management, or simply want to better understand why people behave the way they do inside groups, this conversation offers practical, research-backed insights for building healthier and higher-performing organizations. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
Summary
The Strategic Workforce Planning Handbook - David Edwards - #174
May 2501:06:01Summary readyThanks to HRBench for powering this episode. To find out more about the company building the future of people intelligence, reach out to book a demo at hrbench.com/directionallycorrect ! Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, David Edwards, Chief Workforce Strategist at Dark Artistry, Author of "The Strategic Workforce Planning Handbook"! In this wide-ranging and deeply practical conversation, Cole Napper sits down with David Edwards to unpack one of the most important—and often misunderstood—disciplines shaping the future of work: strategic workforce planning. Drawing from decades of experience across HR, workforce strategy, and organizational transformation, David explains why workforce planning is far more than forecasting headcount. Instead, it is about ensuring organizations have a workforce fit for future business purpose—and understanding the risks that emerge when they do not. David reflects on publishing The Strategic Workforce Planning Handbook and the challenge of writing in a field evolving at breakneck speed. He candidly shares how rapidly advancing AI capabilities made parts of the book feel outdated almost immediately, highlighting just how quickly workforce realities are shifting and why practitioners must constantly adapt. A major theme of the conversation is the relationship between business strategy, workforce demand, and workforce risk. David explains why organizations often misunderstand “strategy,” arguing that workforce planning only becomes meaningful when deeply connected to business objectives. Through practical examples, he demonstrates how hidden vulnerabilities—aging talent populations, concentrated expertise, succession gaps, and critical capability shortages—can quietly threaten organizational performance if left unaddressed. The discussion also explores the increasingly inseparable relationship between people analytics and workforce planning. David argues that workforce planning cannot exist without evidence, while analytics alone often lacks the context necessary to influence business decisions. Together, the two disciplines help leaders identify which parts of the workforce are truly strategic, where risks exist, and how talent decisions shape long-term business outcomes. Cole and David spend significant time discussing AI’s accelerating impact on workforce planning itself. Rather than viewing planning as a static annual process, David envisions a future where AI enables more dynamic analysis of workforce risk, capability gaps, and changing work structures. The conversation moves beyond simple headcount questions to larger issues: How will AI reshape work? Which capabilities will become more valuable? And how should organizations prepare for a future changing faster than traditional planning cycles can handle? Beyond strategy and frameworks, the episode takes a surprisingly personal turn as David reflects on his career journey—from volunteering as a teacher in Kenya at age eighteen to singing in a seventeen-piece soul band and helping redeploy employees at risk of losing their jobs. Those experiences shaped a deeply people-centered philosophy rooted not just in business outcomes, but in helping people navigate transitions and continue meaningful careers. Cole’s Corner brings provocative debates on management quality, aging workforces, mentorship, knowledge transfer, and what organizations should do with long-tenured employees whose performance no longer matches evolving business needs. The episode closes with a thoughtful reflection on technological disruption, history, and human resilience as Cole and David consider whether today’s AI-driven transformation mirrors other moments of dramatic societal change. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.
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