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- [00:00]
A
This episode of the Dirt Talk podcast is with Brian Anderson of Bayer Construction. Brian Anderson is president of Bayer Construction, a site work company based in middle Tennessee. Started in 2019 by driving to water service projects in Ikea, Brian's shared much of his business journey online for others to see and learn from. I have followed Brian for years on LinkedIn. He's just down the road from the Dirt Talk studios here in Nashville, Tennessee. So it was only a matter of time before I had him on and we had a great time. So enjoy this conversation. Brian Anderson of Bear Construction. When did you get going?
- [00:49]
B
Officially 2019. I started. I was just sitting on the couch one night with my wife. I was working for a guy supposed to run his company, but every night on the ride home, I'd have to fill up my, my diesel truck and his car would decline. So I was getting tired of that. I had a six month old at house, at the house and I'm trying to get home. So I was just sitting on the couch and, you know, googling how to start a business.
- [01:18]
A
Yeah.
- [01:19]
B
So I did it and, you know, got on the government website and did all the articles and did what I was supposed to do. And then it came to, you know, what do you want to name it? So I was like, I don't know, I didn't plan on this.
- [01:33]
A
Sure.
- [01:33]
B
So I asked my wife, you know, what I named this company? She's like, name it Bear because you're my bear. So I was like, all right.
- [01:40]
A
That's how you got the name.
- [01:41]
B
That's how I got the name. Gave me chills remembering that story. Wow. And so, you know, it works because I got two baby bears, a little bear and a baby bear got a seven year old and a two year old. So, you know, unfortunate thing is I started at 35, so I still got to go to like 70 before I can turn it over to them. Yeah, yeah. But you know, it'll be a good run as long as they want to take it over.
- [02:02]
A
So you were, well, that's, that's a big thing. You were, you were doing grading work when I started.
- [02:09]
B
No, I've always been like a pipe guy.
- [02:11]
A
Okay, so you're doing pipe work for previous contractors?
- [02:14]
B
Yeah, I was sub and all the pipe for, you know, some Nashville area contractors.
- [02:19]
A
I got you.
- [02:20]
B
And. Well, one shut down, one sold out, and the other one, I knew their plan was they wanted everything in house. Sure. So I was like, I gotta do something after I started the company. So found a guy that I really enjoyed, you know, Working with and hired him to help me run the dirt.
- [02:41]
A
But why not go to work for one of the more established companies as an employee? Yeah. Why start a company?
- [02:50]
B
Well, I didn't know them until I started the company. I knew Summit. My dad had worked for Summit as a dump truck driver after he got tired of being a foreman for years. And so I knew Summit and I was like, I think I can get some work from them. But I originally started just doing taps in Metro from the street to the hpr. Okay. And that was kind of my. My, my go. And so I had some. Some home builders that needed that done. And that was how I started. I put on that same night that I put on that I started my, you know, site and utility company. I had a. Another contractor down south hit me up and said, call me in the morning. So I did. And he had two projects he needed some subcontractor work on. I didn't have anybody. I didn't have a truck. I took my wife's 08 Kia, turned it in Kia Spectra, turned it into my work truck. And my dad had a old 1997, you know, F450 dually, you know, utility bed truck. And that was my first work truck that I put a. I hired my cousin just because I needed an able body, and he drove that truck. I drove the Kia because I knew I'd have to go to meetings and all kinds of other stuff.
- [04:05]
A
Sure. And.
- [04:06]
B
And so start calling around town. Like anybody got a excavator operator and that's. I had three guys and we went and did this work for that contractor.
- [04:15]
A
And your wife was at home with a newborn?
- [04:17]
B
Yes.
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A
Was she working or was it.
- [04:20]
B
She's a nurse. So she was on leave during that time? Yeah, she went back to work.
- [04:24]
A
Okay.
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B
So it was tough.
- [04:26]
A
Holy smokes.
- [04:27]
B
And I think she was on night shift at that point too.
- [04:29]
A
Wow.
- [04:30]
B
So I'd have to. I'd had. I had to be home by certain time of night to take care of the kid.
- [04:35]
A
And you start doing water services.
- [04:38]
B
That's what I started doing.
- [04:40]
A
Okay. Can you explain a water service to somebody that doesn't know what a service is?
- [04:44]
B
So in metro, there's mainline water pipe. We. We dig, excavate the road. Typically water line and metros down the center of the road most of the time, sure. It's either behind curb or under sidewalk. But we would excavate it, tap it with a corp stop and run it to a curb stop, which is in the meter behind the sidewalk. We'd either Stop there. Or we'd run it the rest of the way to the bit. To the house.
- [05:16]
A
Yes.
- [05:16]
B
And then the plumber connects it to it.
- [05:18]
A
Well, it's kind of like. It's kind of like the body in a way. Like you've got your heart, which is the water treatment plant, then you've got your main arteries, which are your big transmission lines.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And then it starts to branch out down each street, which is then your. Just your water main, which is like what typically like 8 inch, 12 inch?
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B
8 inch.
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A
Most time about 8 inch.
- [05:38]
B
Yeah.
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A
And then every house has what you were just talking about with the service.
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B
Like 1 1/4 inch PEX. One metro is copper from the.
- [05:46]
A
Yep.
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B
From the main line to the meter box and then it's pecs to the house.
- [05:49]
A
Sure. Yeah. So you, you, for people that don't know you, you tap. Every house taps into a main line, a water main with copper one and a quarter inch to a water meter so that the city knows how much water you're consuming. And then from there it runs to the house and then from there it's not your problem anymore. Like you just said, it's the plumbers.
- [06:09]
B
Plumbers gotta. With their license, they have to connect it to the house.
- [06:12]
A
So you were doing from the water main up to the house and that's.
- [06:17]
B
That five feet off. Technically.
- [06:18]
A
Five feet off.
- [06:19]
B
Depending on the builder, they'll say just go ahead and connect it. My plumber will sign off on it. Huh. Okay.
- [06:25]
A
Whatever you want.
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B
If that's how you want to deal with it. But you know, I'm not responsible. I'm only taking it five feet.
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A
And so that was 2019. You just start doing water services.
- [06:35]
B
That's how I got my start.
- [06:37]
A
And water services aren't all that glamorous.
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B
They're not. You got to have traffic control road plates. You got angry neighbors that don't like you in their neighborhood.
- [06:45]
A
Sure.
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B
Small machines. So you can't do mass work. It's. And builders have a mindset that that should only cost me about $4,000. But most of them are 12 to 15.
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A
Is that right?
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B
Yeah.
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A
A water service is 12 15.
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B
So for a HPR unit, one initial one where you just connect to their meter that's already there because you're selling one piece of property, but you're gonna build two houses on it. Okay, so it's 12 to 15 really. But they don't like to pay that because you gotta think once you dig something out of the road, the city wants gravel backfill all the Way up. Nowadays they want flow fills to like 3 foot depths. To a certain distance under the asphalt, you gotta binder it, then you gotta infrared it, which turns the binder stuff into like a smooth mix to where it looks like, almost looks like nothing ever happened really. Except for the new binder is darker.
- [07:42]
A
Really.
- [07:43]
B
So it's crazy. It gets more expensive, you know, every time in Dot Metro come up with a new spec.
- [07:48]
A
I see. And so a lot of the cost is piecing it back together because then you've got to haul the material off as well.
- [07:55]
B
You got to do that. I mean, technically we just leave it on site. Home builder, the landscaper can deal with whatever it is. And if there's asphalt, hopefully there's a dumpster on site to put the asphalt in.
- [08:08]
A
So when it comes to water services, you'd done plenty of them at this point. So you knew what you were doing.
- [08:13]
B
I knew what I was doing.
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A
But you just didn't know what you're doing from a business standpoint.
- [08:17]
B
Oh, no, I still don't.
- [08:18]
A
Yeah, well, you're in good company there.
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B
I have no clue.
- [08:21]
A
Yeah, you and me both. But that's the secret. I've met some people that seem to know what they're doing, but turns out they don't know any better than we do.
- [08:31]
B
When you get in these leadership groups and these business development groups and y' all actually start conversing, you realize, okay, you don't know what you're talking about. And I don't either. So, like, now that we know that, let's actually talk about how we're gonna fix it.
- [08:45]
A
Well, I'm. See, I'm, I turned 30 this year and it is interesting. Like I did, I didn't, I didn't go into 30 with any kind of regret like I feel like a lot of people do because they didn't do what they're supposed to do in their 20s. Oftentimes is what I've seen around me as of late. So I didn't go into it, but I also was like, oh, it's just going to be like another birthday, so on and so forth. But there is, there is some weight to another decade. And I, I, and I didn't totally appreciate it. But now before, and, and it wasn't bad before because I grew up around business people, but certain people I would put on a pedestal from a business standpoint. But now that I'm getting a little further in life, I'm not putting these people on it. I'm just seeing them for people. Exactly and it's, it's a lot more clear. It's like, oh, wait, no one has this figured out. And if someone says they do have it figured out, watch out for that person. Stay away.
- [09:50]
B
In 2020, we had an epidemic of consultants. Everybody that either lost their job said, I'm going to be a consultant.
- [09:58]
A
Sure.
- [09:59]
B
So that's all I ever receive on LinkedIn anymore, is, hey, let me help you. I'm like, you don't know me. You don't know my business. We ran totally different from what you might have done for years as a leader in your company, but not an actual owner. So I've always been very careful to maybe not even add them as interactions people, because I just, I don't want that sales pitch.
- [10:30]
A
Well. And I struggle with somebody trying to talk to me about business that hasn't done business themselves. Like, hasn't been in the trenches because it's. And maybe they have great things to offer. Maybe they're smarter than me. They probably are smarter than me, but it's like they still haven't been in the ring. Like, they've always been outside the ring.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And you just. It's like, how much can you really know if you haven't gotten in the ring and gotten socked? A bunch.
- [10:56]
B
It's easier to spend someone else's money than it is to spend your own money. I look at the cash flow every single day. Every single dollar, every single penny is accounted for. And it's, it's on a spreadsheet that we keep. So of course it's going to be more accurate than QuickBooks. And we sometimes have to make QuickBooks replicate what the cash flow shows.
- [11:18]
A
Sure.
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B
And I think that's the most important thing is making sure your cash flow is dollar for dollar accurate.
- [11:25]
A
Have you always been so disciplined with cash flow or have you been snug? Which has then taught you about cash flow?
- [11:32]
B
I don't know. It's kind of weird. Personally, I like to spend cash. I like to spend on stuff. But when it comes to the business, I try to be very frugal. And I've wanted to build my capital in house capital a whole lot better than I've done my personal capital. So we're sitting very well right now. And all my bills are paid within 30 days. 30 to 40 days, depending on what day of the week it turns in. But that's what the cash flow helps to make. Sure, like, bills are coming in and then bills are going out. Sure. And we've, we've. It's it's helped grow the company exponentially.
- [12:14]
A
Yeah, I. The contractors that I've seen that are the most successful are the most disciplined with cash and cash flow and how they manage the finances of the business.
- [12:25]
B
I've always. It's. It's hard to explain to employees that none of this is for me, is to grow the company to hand to my kids. They don't see that. They see me getting rich because I'm buying them machines, I'm buying them trucks. I'm doing this type of stuff, stuff that I never even get to sit in or play in. And so they think that I'm rich because of all this. I'm like, I'm not rich yet. When I sell this in 30 years or hand it over to my kids, then I'll be fine. And that's the. That's the end goal. It's not. Right now. Right now is to help take care of y' all and grow y' all so that y' all can. You're. You're fine. You're good to live.
- [13:04]
A
And so now you're doing all kinds of site work around Middle Tennessee.
- [13:09]
B
Here we're doing. We're bid. We. We're bidding 493 house subdivisions. That's crazy.
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A
493.
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B
It's. It's nuts. It's.
- [13:20]
A
It's doing the site work for a project like that.
- [13:22]
B
Yeah. Full site work. Sometimes they phase them out to, you know, 12 phases, depending on how they want to run it and depending on interest rates and everything else.
- [13:30]
A
Sure.
- [13:31]
B
But, you know, that's. That's what they send to us nowadays. I just got a call this morning on a 300 house subdivision here in Metro that they want me to bid. And We've already got 12 other projects in the hopper and three estimators working on them. We can't even. I can't turn it around in 15 days because of that. I've already promised other projects, but they say it closes in 15 days. So I'm like, is it ready to work in 16 days?
- [13:59]
A
Yeah, sure, because.
- [13:59]
B
Let's go.
- [14:02]
A
So all that in six years and you've just figured it out along the way?
- [14:08]
B
Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Gave me chills speaking on it, but, yeah, there's been a lot of lessons learned. Like, I was more nervous walking in here than the first lawsuit I got.
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A
So what was the first lawsuit about? Hopefully it's settled at this point.
- [14:24]
B
Scope. Yeah, Scope Gap. Like, new developer had absolutely no clue what they were doing. Hired a PM that was just money hungry.
- [14:32]
A
Okay.
- [14:32]
B
And Did a lot of wrong things and tried to cheap us out. And, and they sued me because I told them I wasn't going to do something because they had already fired their PM and they thought we were supposed to do it. And, you know, I've got sign offs from Metro saying, no, you don't have to, you know, vacuum test a private sewer, which. And so, you know, they thought I had to. And I was like, no. And, but I learned so much from that in conversation. Like, hey, I didn't bid that in my package because I know, you know, Metro, you don't have to vacuum test private sewer line sewer manholes.
- [15:09]
A
Yeah.
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B
And if I would have just said that, like, but it, but we can do it for you. Absolutely. It'll be a change order. And so we went to the lawsuit and I won twice. And that's just part of it. That's part of the learning pains that we, we always speak on. And, and it happens.
- [15:26]
A
Yeah.
- [15:27]
B
I'm actually no longer scared of lawsuits because I didn't sleep once that happened.
- [15:32]
A
I can imagine.
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B
But now I, you know, I know to document stuff. And we have, you know, field management software that documents everything that we do. Pictures, you know, details on what we're doing.
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A
Sure.
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B
And that, you know, that's helped. That helps safeguard us against those type of people.
- [15:52]
A
Yeah, I just, but those are, those are the lessons that you in some ways just have to learn on your own. I feel like, like, I feel like every, every person in business has to learn about covering your ass, for lack of a better term, on, on that, on that, in that category, on cash flow, on equipment, on hiring the right people, on hiring the wrong people. I feel like there's like core business lessons that everybody's been through. Regardless of how many times you hear about things happening out there, regardless of how many people mentoring you or how many podcasts you listen to.
- [16:30]
B
Right.
- [16:30]
A
You've just, you've got to touch the stove yourself.
- [16:33]
B
You have to.
- [16:34]
A
Yeah. The top question I'm asked is, what does Bill Witt do? Our purpose is to build the dirt world's next generation. The dirt world is the company' and people building the critical infrastructure and supporting those who build our critical infrastructure that we need to live the lives that we do. Our business is much bigger than me. I run around the world building our brand. But the business itself does two things. One, we help develop the next generation through our product called billwhit Improve. It's a daily training and development platform that about 300 civil construction companies are using to not Just make their people better workers. But. But better people. And of course, we have the 2026 Ariat dirt world Summit. The best opportunity to develop yourself and your teams as leaders. So check us out. Billwhit.com, book a meeting with us, and we'll talk to you soon.
- [17:32]
B
I mean, I hired some crackheads off of Craigslist when I first started. Cause I didn't know how to get people.
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A
And how they do for you?
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B
Well, I set their laser up for them. They said they've been laying pipe for, you know, four years. They said their dad been in the business forever. Like, call them. Everybody knows my dad. I did, but I was like, you're from Craigslist. Like, what does it matter? I just need a laborer at the moment. Sure. And I set the pipe laser up. And when I got to the job site, because I had a meeting that day, I got back to job site about 2 o'. Clock, and their pipe, their sewer line did like this. I'm like, where. You know, I'm standing on the manhole. Like, where are y' all going? Yeah.
- [18:10]
A
For people just listening, it wasn't straight.
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B
No, it's not straight. So I get down in the manhole and like, you're supposed to see a full moon. You're supposed to see daylight, but you couldn't. So I went and, like, looked at them, and they had the pipe laser remote on their pocket. I'm like, what? Why you got the pipe laser remote? I said, well, because we move it. I'm like, you should never move that. It's a straight line. Why are you moving? And so I said. I said, all right, get out of the excavator. Like, we're gonna. We're gonna relay this before we go home tonight, no matter how long it takes. And so they just. They got their stuff and just walked up the hill and left.
- [18:50]
A
Really?
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B
Somebody had came at lunch and offering two more dollars an hour. I want to say who.
- [18:55]
A
Yeah, sure. She wouldn't. You wouldn't hire. Recommend hiring pipe players off.
- [18:59]
B
Not on Craigslist. Yeah. Okay, good. But that's a lesson learned.
- [19:05]
A
I might have been able to tell you that one, though.
- [19:07]
B
So if. Want to go, if we want to talk about stuff not to do, I got you there.
- [19:12]
A
Yeah, sure. But. But that's just. That's just part of the game. Like, I'm talking to a bunch of kids here in a week. And there's just this. I don't know what it is. There's like this fallacy that if you Go start something. Whether it's a business or anything. You need to have a plan before you go into it. And it's just like, that's not how it works.
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B
You, you.
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A
Because you don't know what you don't know.
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B
You don't.
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A
You, you have no data whatsoever.
- [19:42]
B
That's why I, you know, I looked around the room, I was like, I don't know. I didn't have a plan. I just started. I made my mistakes and we've come out. It takes a lot longer, but if you have a, an idea, maybe it's quicker.
- [19:56]
A
Yeah.
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B
I remember playing video games as a kid. I would, I'd get the feel of it and start the season over after I knew what I was supposed to do.
- [20:06]
A
Okay.
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B
And that's because I had experience in it. So I start to season, I'm like. And you know, in two years, I'm outstanding at it. You know, college football is what I played. So recruiting, you know, I would, I'd suck at it when I first start.
- [20:20]
A
Sure.
- [20:21]
B
And then I'd restart it with all the information that I knew and I'd be successful a lot sooner.
- [20:28]
A
Yeah. So you're about to make a trade based on a friend's text, but which you do you listen to, is it. We could buy a house in Tulum, get optioning those options. We could lose everything. Or let's do a little research. Get your head in the trade and make the investment decision that's right for you. Learn more@finra.org TradeSmart It's. But it's, it is amazing though. Like, I feel, I've heard other people talk about this. You everything, like year to year goes a lot slower. Or like week to week, month to month. But then as you stack years up, like over the bigger picture, it's remarkable what you can do in not that many years. But at the time it's just like, oh, it takes so much longer.
- [21:23]
B
No, five years. And this is based on another company around town that I watched them grow. Five years is the kind of the breaking point where you realize, all right, we're gonna do something good with this. Like, you've been through the learning pains, you've experienced it, and now at year five, you get it, you understand it, you know what type of people you want, you know, kind of where you need to be in the business. You've hopefully started to hire some people to take to delegate some stuff off of you.
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A
Sure.
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B
And you're starting to feel more comfortable with it. It's at a five year mark so.
- [22:02]
A
Where are you at the business? Where are you in the business now? This is the six year mark.
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B
It's the six year mark. And if you're going off Dave Ramsey's newest book, I don't know which is.
- [22:14]
A
Build a business you love.
- [22:15]
B
Build a business you love. I'm not nowhere close to legacy because that's, you know, handing it off to my kids. So that's 30 years away. Sure. But I'm like, I feel like I'm in between second, third or fourth because I'm not doing it how, you know. Yes, he makes sense with what he's saying. But you can't always run your business that way because days are different than other days. And so I'm in between second, third and fourth. But there was a lot of great things in that book that I understood completely. And it's hard to pin down exactly where I'm at. But I've got a lot of great people in office. A lot of great Christian people in office. I've got Admin is outstanding. The guys out in the field are young but they're eager and they're hungry to learn. I feel secure in everything. I don't, I'm not scared about nothing anymore. Sure, I go home, I play with my boys and then we, I put them to bed and I don't have to work till 2am anymore.
- [23:22]
A
Really.
- [23:22]
B
I've had those days like, you know, I've been blessed and it's, it's, it's, it's nice.
- [23:29]
A
So how many people are at the business now?
- [23:31]
B
We're at 30, but we're, yeah, you know, we're, we're ready to expand. Sure. I'm, I've got some documents. I'm buying a 480 today. Volvo already.
- [23:40]
A
That's a big machine.
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B
It is. It's not 550 that they've got on the yard, but.
- [23:45]
A
Well, maybe next year.
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B
I was hoping I'd be the first one in town to buy one of those. But we buy used. We don't buy, we buy something around 25 out, 2500 hour mark. Okay. We don't buy anything new. We try to keep. We have a different plan than most people. You know, we're not the kids that start a company and buy the F350 duallys with trailer truck tires. Yeah, that type of stuff and just bomb out everything. Like I said, my first work truck was a 08 Kia Spectra. So.
- [24:18]
A
So you buy, you buy your equipment used.
- [24:20]
B
Yes. And from the, from the rental houses.
- [24:24]
A
Okay.
- [24:24]
B
Because they they have the documents on it. They know what's wrong with it. They've serviced it themselves. You have full documentation on it. They typically fix stuff before they give it to you.
- [24:35]
A
Okay.
- [24:38]
B
And they'll buy anything.
- [24:41]
A
And you've had better. You've had better luck with that.
- [24:43]
B
Yeah, we've had some great machines from it.
- [24:45]
A
Really?
- [24:46]
B
First one I bought from, like a Mini X and skid steer. The skid steer had a lot of problems with it. So I wouldn't suggest maybe buying a used skid steer. But like the bigger machines.
- [24:59]
A
Okay.
- [25:00]
B
You can. You can usually see how it run just by the wear and tear of it in the hours.
- [25:06]
A
Yeah, because I would be. Because I was thinking the smaller stuff, like a skid steer, I'd be nervous buying that from a rental house because those things are just abused.
- [25:15]
B
They are. Oh, boy.
- [25:19]
A
But I guess the bigger stuff, sometimes it'll just be. One customer will be running it on a job for a year.
- [25:25]
B
It can be. And that's the good thing. Like, if you rent it for a year under your name, I get that advantage. So, you know, if you spend a hundred thousand on it, they take off the hundred thousand off of the unit. And now I own it for a lot less cheap than buying it new. I got you. And it's only got, you know, however many hours you can put in a year. Hopefully you just kept it on a dirt pile loading trucks. And there's no wear and tear.
- [25:50]
A
Well. And sometimes they don't have that many hours on them, too.
- [25:52]
B
No, they don't.
- [25:53]
A
Yeah. Okay.
- [25:54]
B
I mean, this one's 20, 23 model. It's got 2500 hours on it. Yeah.
- [25:57]
A
That's great. That's really good.
- [25:59]
B
Yeah.
- [26:00]
A
Wow. And I guess a bigger machine, too. You can. Yeah, like you were saying, you can kind of tell how it was used. You can look at it a little bit easier. Does that make sense?
- [26:10]
B
You can see the wear and tear on the sprockets and everything else, the rollers, and know if they've tracked backwards the whole job site or if they tracked forwards.
- [26:18]
A
Now, something like that. Is that just another thing you've had to figure out?
- [26:22]
B
Well, a lot of that comes from my vice president, operations. Okay. He could tell you the pin size, the diameter of the pin on the front knuckle versus the back. He knows all that type of stuff. And he's been the biggest help since starting the company. He's the dirt guy, I'm the pipe guy. So. And the way we get along is just great.
- [26:46]
A
So you have somebody Else that's helping you.
- [26:48]
B
Yes.
- [26:49]
A
Run the company.
- [26:49]
B
When I was. When back in early 2000, I worked for a guy and we did pipe, but then he started getting some dirt jobs. I did like, a full cul de sac of medical offices where we built it up 20 foot, cut it here, built a beautiful retaining wall. And so I learned dirt in Georgia red clay.
- [27:13]
A
Okay.
- [27:14]
B
But I was always scared of rock. And he knows rock. He knows how to grind it, knows how to turn into stone, knows how to, you know, do whatever he needs to do to.
- [27:21]
A
To get to pass in Middle Tennessee. It's. It's nothing but rock.
- [27:27]
B
That's all it is. It's hard to find any type of dirt and any type of flat lot anymore. Everything's just hilly and nasty and. And gross.
- [27:36]
A
Yeah, it's. Well, it's. I think that's one of the big things I noticed first coming out here was the site work just looks a little worse because it's just chunky. Like, it's just rock. And so you can't make every. Anything. Everything look as pretty like in Georgia. You can make it look real pretty.
- [27:52]
B
Oh, you make it look beautiful. The whole. The whole length. Like, your drone shots look pretty. But if you. Yeah. Schedule your drone shots on this.
- [27:59]
A
Sure.
- [27:59]
B
Yeah.
- [28:00]
A
Yeah.
- [28:00]
B
If you're blasting, it's not. You know, you can't do no drone shots.
- [28:03]
A
No.
- [28:04]
B
For. For picturesque.
- [28:06]
A
Oh, and trenches look ugly because you're oftentimes having to hammer it or shoot it.
- [28:10]
B
Trenches expand because you pull it out. Big rock that didn't blast right. You gotta fill it up with more gravel.
- [28:15]
A
Yeah. It just. And. And then even, like, this was the first place I saw them using just surge for building pads. Like, I've just. I'd never seen stuff like. Not even close to that bony just being laid down for. For a pat. And it's like, yeah, what are you guys doing? Like, what do you mean? What are doing? Why. Why crush it any more than this if we're crushing? Like, the cost just goes away, so it's not.
- [28:40]
B
It does. But nowadays, you got. You got to find a better price point than what we used to. So, like, sometimes you throw the crushing in for free just. Just to turn. That way you don't have to purchase stone, you know, from the rock quarries. Yep.
- [28:53]
A
Yep.
- [28:53]
B
You know, I might get my hand slapped, but, you know, their. Their prices go up almost every. Every minute.
- [28:59]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [28:59]
B
Feels like. Oh.
- [29:00]
A
Oh, that's everywhere. Because. And why? Because they can.
- [29:05]
B
They can't.
- [29:05]
A
What are you going to do about It.
- [29:06]
B
Especially in Nashville, you got to put rock everywhere. And, like Metro, you know, you got to feel that. You got to fill your ditch all the way up with 57. You can't put, you know, native soil back in the ground no more.
- [29:16]
A
Yeah. And they're not. They're not putting any more quarries in for good reason. There's a few companies that run them.
- [29:22]
B
All, and they don't like you selling to yourself.
- [29:25]
A
No.
- [29:26]
B
So you can't crush on one side and send it to another site.
- [29:28]
A
They've got a good thing going. In fairness, some of them have had to go underground, which is way more expensive.
- [29:33]
B
Have you ever been to the one in. Where is it? In Franklin?
- [29:37]
A
I haven't been Vulcan. No.
- [29:39]
B
No.
- [29:39]
A
Vulcan would never have me out.
- [29:40]
B
No.
- [29:41]
A
No. Why would they? But I've seen it. I've seen some videos of it because they. I think they started doing social media even, and I think that's how I saw. I was like, wow, Vulcan's on social media. This is pretty wild.
- [29:53]
B
I won't go down because it's just too far down. And, you know, just the amount of pressure sitting on top of you, you.
- [29:59]
A
Can'T think about it.
- [30:00]
B
Yeah, I'm not that brave.
- [30:02]
A
I went. I went to an underground quarry in Chicago. A lot of them have gone underground there, too.
- [30:09]
B
Yeah.
- [30:11]
A
And it's just like. It's amazing that the, like, the. The economics support that because it's so much more expensive to go underground. And even just like, to develop the mine itself before you're even hauling anything out of it is a ridiculous sum of money. But that is, like, the only alternative to putting a new pit somewhere, and that's just out of the question.
- [30:34]
B
Can't ship it from Nashville.
- [30:36]
A
No. So, yeah, that's a common problem everywhere, though, is just how much rock has gone up since 2020. And even I've been talking about this, like, just the cost of projects now. I mean, you want to build a road compared to 2018 now, it's like, it's. It's. It's. It's. It's not gone up by, like, a little bit. It's gone up just an astronomical amount. And contractors aren't, like, any more rich. It's not like you're just raking in any more money than you were before.
- [31:10]
B
We've had a lot of developers take that out of our budget just because they. They don't want to pay, you know, the markup on a million dollars that they could cover themselves just by project magic.
- [31:21]
A
Sure.
- [31:22]
B
So, you know, we Always offer it. But then we also offer the original price quote from, you know, the asphalt company to them. Say, hey, this is who we like to work with. If you got somebody else. Okay. But like, this is their straight up pricing. Take it if you need it.
- [31:42]
A
So you mean paving? Like they'll just do the paving direct?
- [31:45]
B
Yeah, they'll pay for it and project manage it technically, but we end up project managing it anyway.
- [31:51]
A
I was gonna say, does that ever end up.
- [31:52]
B
Well, no, we still, you know, and then, you know, there's some that GPS everything, and if their model doesn't match our model and we end up, you know, 2/10 low in their model, who. Who pays for that?
- [32:06]
A
Sure.
- [32:06]
B
If it was in our contract, you know, we could discuss it, but now we've got to discuss the third party developer and they got to make the decision.
- [32:16]
A
I gotcha. And every developer is a little bit different here, I take it.
- [32:21]
B
Yeah, nobody's saying no. Nobody is the same.
- [32:24]
A
No, it's. And it's a lot of groups in Nashville too, isn't it?
- [32:27]
B
There's a lot of. There's a lot. And they're still moving in. There's a lot coming on. And I've heard some are starting to go. Yeah, they just can't make their product work in Nashville. Sure. Doesn't really make sense. But maybe that goes back to the size of the house and the cost of the property that. And the cost to build.
- [32:48]
A
They're having to make it really dense here too. I know they put two houses on every lot, which I think is a horrible trend, but they've been doing a lot of that.
- [32:56]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [32:57]
A
All over Nashville. The whole place.
- [32:59]
B
And I think it just got. I think Metro just got more dense.
- [33:02]
A
Yeah.
- [33:02]
B
I think they just signed something in the act that you can build a lot more now.
- [33:06]
A
Yeah, I think. I honestly think that's been a huge. I don't think it's a good trend at all. And then the homes they put up, like, the way they built them too. It's like, all right, that's not worth a million dollars. There's no way that's a million.
- [33:19]
B
Now. It can be questionable, especially if they build it in a. In a factory and ship it to the job site. Why does it still cost that much if y' all just saved a ton prefab in it? Yeah, but maybe that's how they got their prices down to purchase the lot.
- [33:34]
A
I. Yeah, I don't.
- [33:36]
B
Because there's a lot of times I'll see a development, you know, three Times start off with, you know, one developer that wanted budget. Second developer bought it, wants to see if they can make it work. Then the third, it's like they turn it in again. I'm like, my gosh, how many times I'm going to bid this to a different developer.
- [33:54]
A
Because the, I guess not the problem. The challenge with a place like Nashville or any city in America now is the Goodland's well gone.
- [34:01]
B
It's gone.
- [34:02]
A
So you're dealing with just crap sites that were previously completely uneconomical to develop.
- [34:09]
B
Some of them have been absolutely beautiful. You're like, why are you turning these mountains and valleys into a, you know, into a retaining wall subdivision?
- [34:17]
A
Sure.
- [34:18]
B
But there's good money.
- [34:20]
A
Businesses. Business.
- [34:21]
B
Business is business. Uh huh.
- [34:23]
A
So that, but that for somebody like you. That's why these projects are bigger and bigger and bigger in some ways just because there's more like yeah, there's this giant hill in the middle of the site that we've got a lob off or this giant valley over here that we have to fill in to make it work.
- [34:41]
B
That's the biggest reason we've set. We've kept the same crews, but we grow 100% each year because the contracts get bigger, projects get harder and projects get bigger.
- [34:50]
A
I see.
- [34:51]
B
So we've been able to keep, you know, 30 people for the last two, three years really. And. But we still grow 100% each year.
- [34:57]
A
No kidding.
- [34:58]
B
This year we actually broke even because we, we, we had some projects that we've been verbalized in January and they didn't go until like just this last month. Just waiting on utility districts to. I think they're slowing it down on purpose.
- [35:16]
A
The district or the developers are.
- [35:18]
B
No, not the developers. Developers won't go.
- [35:20]
A
Okay.
- [35:21]
B
Typically they're, you know, they're saying, oh, we should start in like four weeks. And then the utility districts just won't give them sign offs. Really Keep giving problems revisions over font sizing or font, you know, interesting. So a lot of, a lot of stuff keeps them held in check until you know, eight to ten months.
- [35:44]
A
Okay. And there's nothing you can do about it.
- [35:46]
B
There's nothing I can do. And so you just gotta hope that you know, interest rate and some of them might do it themselves. Wait for interest rates to come down. They're like, ah, let's wait, let's wait, let's wait. I see what's going to happen.
- [35:59]
A
Yeah. It's been the interest rates are a big deal and then the tariff stuff's definitely not. It's not been bad necessarily, but it's definitely put money on the sidelines. Well, you had the election last year. That put money, a lot of money on the sidelines. No one was spending anything before that happened. And then it goes through, which then shakes some money, a little bit of money up. I saw. Like, this is. This is painting with a very broad brush here.
- [36:29]
B
Yeah.
- [36:29]
A
And then new administration comes in, the tariff thing. The tariff wrench is thrown into the whole. The gears.
- [36:38]
B
Everybody's scared to death.
- [36:39]
A
And then everybody gets spooked again. And it's been a weird. A weird year as a result, I feel like.
- [36:48]
B
Or.
- [36:49]
A
And everybody's busy, it seems like, but it's just. It's just felt weird.
- [36:53]
B
It's been a very real weird year.
- [36:57]
A
Yeah.
- [36:58]
B
Because we were going to grow another 100% this year. Like, with the work that we had last year that was backlogged into this year, plus that amount of growth that we had, we were set to grow again.
- [37:10]
A
So assuming. And you were just planning on the work going when it was supposed to go.
- [37:15]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [37:16]
A
But then it's like, is it just a developer calling you or like emailing you? Hey, sorry, it's going to be another four months on this giant project. You were assuming. Assuming was going to go.
- [37:26]
B
They never say it's going to be another four months, always. Oh, it should. We should have it signed by this Friday. And then coming one month later, you're like, hey, I didn't want to bug you, but where we stand on this, really. And they're not trying to keep us on, you know, and held up.
- [37:42]
A
Yeah.
- [37:42]
B
They really believe that because they. They get the comments back and they're like, all right, it should be the. It should be easy.
- [37:48]
A
Sure.
- [37:48]
B
In all logic, it should go quick. But then the engineer is busy. Gosh, they're busy. And so they might not be able to get to it. The. You know, and then everybody's going on vacations these days, so it holds it off another month some way somehow. Sure. It's just. It's wild. It's.
- [38:07]
A
Yeah, we.
- [38:08]
B
Funny.
- [38:08]
A
We were trying to get something. It's. It's very different, but similar. We're trying to get something approved and with some people in a different country, and you just get an email response back like, yeah, we'll be back at like the end of next month. And you just don't hear from them until the end of next month.
- [38:23]
B
Yeah.
- [38:23]
A
And you're just like, well, I was assuming this was gonna get done. I don't know. I Was being like in three weeks time we'll have this sorted and it ends up being like 12 weeks.
- [38:35]
B
You can't use logic anymore.
- [38:36]
A
No, no.
- [38:39]
B
You gotta start using common sense a whole lot more. So that's, I told a developer when they told me just recently, we won a big, big project that we're really excited about and they said, oh, we should be ready next month. Like it's going to take eight months.
- [38:55]
A
Yeah.
- [38:56]
B
And we're at the eight month mark and I'm still asking. Sure. How's it going?
- [39:01]
A
Well, that's why this is one of the things like we shut the company down between, for two weeks over Christmas and New Year's because nothing gets done. So even if you are the hardest working individuals and the hardest working company, no one else is doing anything. And so it's like, why try to work? Like why waste, it's just a waste of time. Those two weeks. And honestly, like especially the government, everybody's checked out after Thanksgiving, like between Thanksgiving and New Year's. You want to get something done? Good luck, buster. Like I'm just going to be hanging out at home.
- [39:37]
B
I've always told my project managers and my foreman and you know, might get my hand slapped again, but that's okay at the, like, if you call for 8 inch gate valve and the salesman puts a ticket in the warehouse, person goes to pick it. The person loading the truck somehow got a 6 inch gate valve. If then the foreman goes to pick it up, takes it to the job site and then says this is an 8 inch gate valve.
- [40:03]
A
Sure.
- [40:03]
B
Like somewhere along the way something's going to mess up.
- [40:06]
A
Yeah.
- [40:06]
B
So I tell them like you have to double check. You have to focus on what you're doing. Don't just go pick up something, make sure it's the accurate, most, you know, most correct thing that you're supposed to do.
- [40:17]
A
Yeah. Well, and there's also this big difference between big business and small, different small business. Like for, for somebody like you or me, speed is very important and time is extremely important. And accuracy and accuracy. Like you don't, you don't have the luxury of time, of making mistakes that you can avoid. Like there's just, there's less wiggle room across the board. But people like us, we have to deal with these bigger companies that operate on a totally different operating system. They're, they're not in any kind of rush whatsoever. They can make mistakes. They've just got a lot more people because they can afford more people. I don't know what the people do, but they're there and you need them oftentimes to do something for you to then get your job done. And there's just this total misalignment in, like, velocity.
- [41:14]
B
I feel like somewhere along the way it's going to mess up.
- [41:16]
A
And it is one of the most frustrating things. Like, I don't think I've ever butt against it more than this year. And it is just. I want to yell sometimes. I'm just so frustrated, but that wouldn't do me any good. But these people are just in no rush whatsoever.
- [41:36]
B
They're not. They're still going to make their money off of it, which is fine. That's the whole point of it all. But, like, that's where communication is the best deal.
- [41:47]
A
Yeah.
- [41:48]
B
And what do you do if something does go wrong? That's where your service comes in.
- [41:52]
A
Sure. So what do you do when something goes wrong?
- [41:57]
B
Take a deep breath. I say, all right, guys, like, you know, what do we need to do to fix it? You know who. I don't care where it messed up. You know, that doesn't bother me anywhere anymore. We got to figure out what the problem is and go fix it and then try to fix it on the back end. That's why I keep telling them. They're like. When they say I did everything I was supposed to do, I was like, I get that. But understand that somebody along the way is going to see it differently and they're going to pick the wrong thing. Sure. They do it every single day. They pick this up, they pick this up, they pick this up. They accidentally pick this up. Like some. Somewhere along the way it's going to mess up.
- [42:35]
A
But that. But that's what I like, the gate valve things. It's a good example. Like, it's probably a big company you're buying the gate valve from, big national supplier or whatever it is. They don't really care if they get it right or wrong. And okay, they got it wrong.
- [42:49]
B
They.
- [42:50]
A
No one's gonna lose their job. Nothing's really gonna change. You'd want them to, but they don't really care. But then you've got a pipe crew, like, they're laying up to that valve and now they can't go any further because they don't have the right valve. And even two hours lost, like two hours to the big gate valve supplier or whatever, doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. But to you, two hours of the pipe crew, that's very valuable.
- [43:18]
B
It is.
- [43:18]
A
And if you're not, especially if it's a nice day and the weather's really good.
- [43:23]
B
Especially knowing rain's coming tomorrow.
- [43:25]
A
Exactly.
- [43:26]
B
Ditch feel.
- [43:27]
A
Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Or. Yeah, the paving crews right behind you or whatever it is. It's just like the cost of things is a lot different, but you can complain about it all day long. It just. It is what it is. Yeah.
- [43:40]
B
Like, you can't complain no more. No. Or else that's all you're doing every single day. It's just complaining.
- [43:45]
A
I know a lot of contract. A lot of people in business like that, though.
- [43:49]
B
I had to learn not to do that.
- [43:50]
A
Yeah.
- [43:51]
B
I can't lead that way. There's no way that I could complain about every single thing and expect them not to complain when one. If I didn't do what I was supposed to do, I didn't send the email with the right documents. And then they bid something completely different from what, you know, the updated documents were.
- [44:07]
A
Yeah, it's.
- [44:08]
B
It's a. It's a wild world.
- [44:11]
A
But I feel like you almost have to for your sanity, or else you just become this bitter asshole. Like, I would just go insane.
- [44:17]
B
Yeah. No, I mean, when I came to Christ, like, I realized I hated everybody.
- [44:22]
A
Yeah. Okay.
- [44:23]
B
I was. No, I didn't like anybody I worked with. This is before my company, of course. Yeah. I think I've been baptized about over 12 years now. No, actually 10, because my wife was with me. But I realized I just hated everything about every minute of every single day. And so I just randomly started listening to Christian music in the car and noticed, like, I was smiling, just riding around town, and I started to, like, not let everything bother me anymore. And it just. It just freed my soul to where I was able to deal with these type of headaches and these type of people because I was. I think I was cutting grass on a landscape crew at that moment. And I just hated everybody. Everybody, you know, driving around town. Hated them. I was like, something's got changed.
- [45:20]
A
Sure.
- [45:20]
B
So I just turned the radio dial to, you know, I found a Christian station. And, you know, it took a while, but several days later, I felt a cleansing almost. I felt relieved. I was like. I felt I could deal with these people.
- [45:39]
A
Really.
- [45:41]
B
It was beautiful.
- [45:42]
A
After listening to Christian music, huh? This year it's been good. I've read the Bible every day, which I really enjoyed. I grew up in. I grew up in church my whole life. Methodist Church, actually. Pretty sweet. I had a great relationship with it all. I didn't resent my parents for making me go or anything. Like that and my parents were quite smart. They didn't force me into anything. I think we had confirmation at our Methodist Church at 13. And after that point on, it was up to me. Whatever you want to do, you've got the foundation, you go do it. And that was the same with my education too. Like up to 18. Like, listen, we gave you the foundation. After that, it's up to you, bubba. And after that, I got away from it for a while. And I'm not.
- [46:36]
B
Everybody does.
- [46:37]
A
Yeah. And I'm not. I'm honestly not a big. I'm not a big. Like, I don't. I'm not a big church guy. I don't. They make me super uncomfortable. I don't. Like, everybody just on board with something oftentimes without asking questions or anything like it just to me. And, And. And I'm fine with church. It's just not. I've never been all that big into it, but I assumed that religion and church, that was the only way to do it. And then this year it was like, oh, wait a minute. I don't actually need church to do any of this.
- [47:11]
B
And it's like, you just need your time with. With him.
- [47:14]
A
I just need my time, and I just need this book.
- [47:19]
B
And that's that.
- [47:20]
A
And in just doing it every day, I'm a big believer in doing just a few things every day. I am. If I have one superpower, is consistency.
- [47:31]
B
Are you still running every day? Okay.
- [47:33]
A
I exercise every day, I read every day. I write every day, and I read the Bible every day. Like, there's some things non negotiables. Doesn't know. Does. Does not matter what I'm doing. I will be doing those things. I've done it for years. Stopped drinking last January. Like, just a few things, but it's brought. It's just taking the weight off.
- [47:57]
B
Your shoulders. Aren't so heavy.
- [47:59]
A
It's not. It's not heavy. That's exactly it. And it's just. Because it'll just crush you. And just. I mean, not John. Just. Just life. Like, I. Business owners like to talk about how hard it is. Like, yeah, it is hard, but it's. It's hard for everybody. Like. Like, life is hard. 2020 was hard.
- [48:19]
B
You signed up for, you know.
- [48:20]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [48:21]
B
Why start business if you expect it to be easy?
- [48:23]
A
Well, not. That's why I don't have a whole lot of patience for business owners complaining. Because it's like, dude, you signed up for it.
- [48:31]
B
Like, then what you expect.
- [48:32]
A
Yeah. Don't do it. Yeah.
- [48:33]
B
Whoever Your last boss was. Made it look way too easy.
- [48:36]
A
Yeah. Yeah. But it's, it's, it's just made it, it hasn't made it easier, but it's made it a lot more, a lot more bearable.
- [48:48]
B
No, and that's the point of it.
- [48:50]
A
Yeah.
- [48:50]
B
It's the purpose of it.
- [48:51]
A
Yeah.
- [48:51]
B
It helps you get through anything.
- [48:53]
A
Uh huh.
- [48:54]
B
It's been really good because employees are tough and if you're able. I've calmed down so many more people by and I don't know the gospel. I couldn't tell you what a verse is.
- [49:11]
A
Yeah, you and me both.
- [49:12]
B
You know, I've got one on my, on my monitor so that I will look at it and try to remember it one day. But it's, it's the best thing. I can't even tell you what it is right now. Sure. But it's my favorite one that I found. But that's the thing. Like I'm still trying every single day to get better in my faith. But to be able to calm someone down by using faith is so much easier than me riling up and fist fighting. Because that's the way it used to be back in the 90s and early 2000s. You fist fight and go back to work. You either quit or you go get back in your machine and get back to work. I worked with my dad for the longest time, like right after high school. And you know, yeah, we didn't fist fight but threw rocks and cussed each other and stuff. But like, yeah, you just get back in the machine, go to work.
- [50:01]
A
You, you said you use these principles too. From a hiring standpoint. How does that play out? What are the mechanics of that?
- [50:17]
B
That one's tough. There are you, you need labor, you need laborers, but you don't need the, the homeboys with the tattoos on their neck and above their eyes. You don't need those type of people. You need management. I let them know in the interview that I'm a Christian man and that this company is led by Christ. It wouldn't be here if it wasn't for him. And you know, I let them know that so, and I, so they have the option to back off if they don't believe in that. We, you know, we put, we put scriptures on our shirts and you know, I've had a man rip the sleeves off of it. I didn't know that until after he quit on his own accord, but I wouldn't have. I wasn't too keen of hearing that.
- [51:16]
A
Sure.
- [51:17]
B
Not to be pushy on it. I Don't ever push it. I tell my guys I love them. When we have our safety meetings and we do it and Thanksgiving and we bring everybody to shop on a rainy day, I straight up tell them I love them. I'm like, you're here for a service for your community. I don't think you ever think about that. But you're out there building home sites and clean infrastructure, sanitary places for people to use the bathroom. Like, this isn't third world country. You're providing a service to these families that have kids and families living in these homes that you're building these. These land sites for. Like, be proud of that. Yeah. So that's how I lead with my faith. But when I'm hiring them, I let them know up front, especially, like, the management. Maybe out in the field, they're a little more rough cut. But when I can. When they do come into the office, I lead into them. I've had a lot of people cry and give me hugs just because of the person that they think I am. Because of my faith. They don't know me fully, but the way I present myself to them and how slow I am to react to certain problems and stuff. They got $300,000 machines that they're tearing up. If I go out there and cuss them out, that's not gonna go well. But if I'm able to lead in a certain way, then they feel better. Sometimes they feel worse because they're like, man, I just kind of hurt this guy's house. Like, that's a house.
- [52:53]
A
Yeah. So, so good, so good, so good.
- [52:59]
B
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- [53:23]
A
Today.
- [53:25]
B
When hiring them. I know I keep scooting around that question in the interview process. I let them know and I talk to them and I ask them a little bit about who they are. I think we just had. We. I had hired a guy who rescinded his. His offer, and I almost wonder if I put too much pressure on him.
- [53:49]
A
Did you write about that?
- [53:51]
B
I did. I feel like I saw. Yeah.
- [53:52]
A
Okay.
- [53:53]
B
Yeah.
- [53:54]
A
And pressure. How so?
- [53:57]
B
I don't know. He wrote an email saying it was different reasons, but almost feel like maybe he wasn't connected. Like he said he was in the interview process and we ended up hiring a man that is. And it's worked out great.
- [54:13]
A
Sure.
- [54:14]
B
So I think everything led the way it's supposed to. Yeah. Sometimes you can pick the wrong person.
- [54:20]
A
Yeah. It always seems to. If your intentions are in the right place, though. It always seems to work out.
- [54:26]
B
It does. It always does.
- [54:27]
A
Yeah. Yeah. It's. It's. I've. I've noticed there are faith based undertones throughout the whole construction industry because now that I'm more involved with it this year.
- [54:44]
B
You're seeing it. Yeah.
- [54:45]
A
You're starting to see it.
- [54:45]
B
Yeah.
- [54:46]
A
You're starting.
- [54:46]
B
There's a lot of great companies here in Nashville that are faith based.
- [54:49]
A
Yeah. But I mean, there's a lot of great companies across the whole industry that are like.
- [54:54]
B
And they don't shout it.
- [54:55]
A
Most. Like, most of them, I would say, like. Like a vast majority.
- [54:59]
B
I feel like they are.
- [55:00]
A
Are. Yeah. But very rarely do you hear it talked about. Very rarely.
- [55:06]
B
I'm trying to change that. I want people to know that, like there are like construction industry is a good industry to one being work in. You can have your faith on the job site in a company and not be scared to do so.
- [55:20]
A
Sure.
- [55:21]
B
Like, you know, construction is known as a tough man job, but, you know, tough men love. Love God.
- [55:31]
A
Yeah. Well. And. Yeah, it's. Yeah. I don't think it has like a bearing on how tough you are either. I think it makes you tougher in a lot of ways too.
- [55:40]
B
It does. I mean, you look at like the Duck Dynasty guys, like, they're not scared at all to talk about it.
- [55:45]
A
Sure.
- [55:45]
B
And they put it on TV platform.
- [55:46]
A
Yeah.
- [55:47]
B
Yep.
- [55:47]
A
Yep. Yeah. It's been, it's been, it's been. I've reflected upon that this year a lot, actually. Like almost everybody, if not everybody I really respect in the industry is faith based. Like the more I get into it, the more I unravel it, the more I'm like, wow, there is a common theme here.
- [56:07]
B
There's some great business owners out there that only want the best for their employees. Do they see that that way? Not every. Not every time. Not every person.
- [56:16]
A
Yeah.
- [56:17]
B
But like my company is not for me. It's for. It's a service to. To good men to build a lifestyle.
- [56:25]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [56:26]
B
That's their families.
- [56:27]
A
Well, and that's like, this year it's been really helpful.
- [56:31]
B
I'll.
- [56:32]
A
There's been some times where I don't know if I've talked about it. I maybe have, but there's Been some earlier this year, some very snug moments from a financial standpoint. And it gets so snug. You go into. It's just human nature. You go into the. You go into survival mode a little bit like survival state in your head mentally. And so you start to go, all right, well, if this really does implode, how am I going to be okay? Oh, well, xyz, you know me, like, finding a job would be. No, no problem. I'd be. I'd make much more money that I'm making right now.
- [57:12]
B
Yeah.
- [57:16]
A
If I was. Even if I was just taking pictures speaking, like, I'd make way more money than I'm. It's so and so I'm like, oh, I'd be okay. But then I realized, like, wait a minute. I almost kind of, like, smacked myself on the head or, like, slap myself like, you're. And. And then. And scolded myself in a way. Like, you're missing the whole point. Like, none of this is about you at all. No, none of this is about you. And then it was like. Like it was. You have to remind yourself of that. I feel like it's. It's just human nature. It's just ego. It's like, well, I'm gonna make things about me. But then you pull yourself back out of that. You're like, wait a minute. None of this is about me?
- [58:01]
B
Well, it's hard to do with. You know, you're. You're big in. Into everything Instagram and everything else. Like, I've recently become Fairly big in LinkedIn. So I start. You know, you get to that point where you're like, oh, people like me.
- [58:17]
A
Sure, yeah.
- [58:18]
B
And, you know, people are following me. People care what I say about. So it's hard to. To keep yourself grounded to where you're not thinking it is about me.
- [58:29]
A
Well, and yeah, for. For where I'm at. Like, I'm the face of the business and brand in a big way and in a way that I. I never intended. I never set it up this way. I didn't. That's not the driving force at all. Like, it was, um.
- [58:47]
B
No. I remember watching you on Instagram when you first started. Like, you just loved Big Machine.
- [58:52]
A
Yeah. I would have given up so long ago had it been about, like, oh, how many people can follow me? And how this and that. But it was. I remember. I think it was 2020 Con Expo. It was like the first Con Expo I went to, where I was, like, kind of somebody in construction. And now it's way, way beyond that.
- [59:11]
B
But you created your own Conexpo.
- [59:14]
A
Well, yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [59:15]
B
Yeah.
- [59:15]
A
Which, Which I think is better. But I'll be there. Good, good. Have you been there before?
- [59:21]
B
No. I wanted to go last year to see Herb. I really love Herb. Yep, yep, yep. I want to see him speak. Yeah. I had a, you know, one and a half year old, so I didn't want to leave my wife at home with the baby.
- [59:31]
A
I'm excited you'll be there. You'll really enjoy it. But, But I went there and, you know, it was like the first time I was meeting people. This and that. Oh, I love your stuff. This and that. And I was, I almost went into it expecting it would go to my head a little bit.
- [59:44]
B
Yeah.
- [59:44]
A
Cuz I'm just, you know, male in my mid-20s. Of course, like, that's the most intoxic. But it didn't at all. And it was, it was like surprising and relieving at the same time. Like, okay, all right, thank goodness. Like, that isn't the motivation. Like, I almost got in my head about, well, is this the motivation? And then I had that, that, that real world experience. Like, oh, wait, no, this doesn't get me going. I, I appreciate it. I'm really grateful and I love meeting these people, but this, this isn't driving me at all. It doesn't feed ego or anything like that, but it's like, I can see how people perceive it that way.
- [60:26]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [60:26]
A
Because that's what it looks like. And it's like, well, yeah, I mean, it does look like that.
- [60:30]
B
Yeah.
- [60:32]
A
Because I am the face of everything. But, But I, But I have to be like, that's the role I play. And so I'm trying to play it. Like, that's just. Again, that's just the path that's been laid out for me.
- [60:42]
B
I'm actually trying to get out of being the face of the company. Like, we don't. My bare LinkedIn page and Facebook page, we don't do anything with it. It might repost something that I post on there or a job, but I don't have a marketing company. I don't do anything with it. Sure, we haven't needed it because I've been able to get enough work. That's where I've got all my work from, is LinkedIn. I've never really had to knock on doors to get work.
- [61:09]
A
Go figure.
- [61:10]
B
Even my first job, you know, I said, hey, I started my company and that night I had a job offer. And So I love LinkedIn. Like, it's been it's grown my company as far as it has.
- [61:23]
A
Well, that's. I mean, I've been following you on LinkedIn for. Since the whole time.
- [61:27]
B
I appreciate it.
- [61:27]
A
Yeah.
- [61:28]
B
I mean, any like that you put on there just adds more, you know, impressions.
- [61:31]
A
Sure.
- [61:33]
B
Yeah.
- [61:33]
A
You've done just fine, though. I don't. But I don't. I don't. I think you should be the. I think you should. People want to know who they're going to work for.
- [61:43]
B
Yeah.
- [61:43]
A
And I think there's power in that. Like, I think. I think any notable company right now in the industry. I've thought a lot about this. That's not a keywit. And a notable company that somebody from another market knows of. So. Like a sergeant.
- [61:59]
B
Yeah.
- [62:00]
A
Like a C.W. matthews. Like an Emory Sapp and Sons. Like a veit. You know, like, you know, of these companies.
- [62:09]
B
Yeah.
- [62:10]
A
They. They all have somebody that's the face of the company. And I think, like a sergeant and Herb doesn't want to be the face of the company. He has to be, but somebody has. Exactly. Somebody has to be knowing him.
- [62:28]
B
He's just fit for that.
- [62:29]
A
Yes. Yeah. But somebody has to be. And I think construction contractors, they really struggle with that because there is this sense of humility in construction that isn't just. Is not a thing in most other industries, but. But that also is special. Like the company, as hard as you try to make it, not a representation of you will always be a representation of you.
- [62:53]
B
And that's why I want to get out. Because I want it to be more than me.
- [62:56]
A
Yeah. Yes.
- [62:57]
B
Like I say, I don't want the company. It's not about me. It's about the guy. So I'm wanting to develop a marketing plan to emphasize them a lot more. I want them in the pictures. I want background stories on them. I want more of who they are. Instead of, you know, me putting a picture of myself.
- [63:19]
A
Picture of your shirt.
- [63:20]
B
340,000 views. Like, I was like, holy crap. And so now I have that pressure to try to get that same amount every single time.
- [63:30]
A
Yeah, but it's. Well, don't. Don't do that. Yeah, that's. That's a fool's errand. But the. I still think. I think. I think it needs to be. I think it needs to be both. Like, I still. And from your perspective, too. Like, you can make your host whole social strategy on LinkedIn, talking about your people.
- [63:51]
B
Yeah.
- [63:52]
A
But I think it's still, like someone still needs to be the face and the voice of the company. There needs to be a person.
- [63:58]
B
I just. I practice not saying I. Yeah. I practice saying, we, us. This is how we do it. I don't want it to be, oh, I learned this. And so now we're doing that.
- [64:09]
A
Yeah.
- [64:09]
B
I hate. I hate that.
- [64:11]
A
Yeah. But I think you can do both of those things is what I try to tell other people. And there's. There's just. I will always connect more with an individual than I will with a company.
- [64:25]
B
Yeah.
- [64:26]
A
Because I'm a human, and I connect better with humans than companies.
- [64:30]
B
I love going on, like, sales meetings.
- [64:32]
A
Mm.
- [64:33]
B
Taking people to, like, developers.
- [64:34]
A
Yeah. I love.
- [64:35]
B
I love doing that. Yeah.
- [64:37]
A
But I think you can make your whole. Like, you can make your whole social strategy just talking about other people. Like. But I think it's. I think there's still a lot of value in it coming from you.
- [64:48]
B
Yeah. And I believe that. I don't want to get out completely, but I won't. I won't bear to have its own.
- [64:53]
A
Sure. Yeah.
- [64:55]
B
Background story. That's not me.
- [64:57]
A
Yes.
- [64:58]
B
But I won't. I like to have my own and explain how we're doing things and why, you know, Bear was built this way.
- [65:04]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [65:05]
B
Just like Herb did as, you know, 100 year story book like that. I would never remember that. That many amount of stories.
- [65:13]
A
I still need one. I don't think I have one.
- [65:15]
B
He didn't get you one yet. No.
- [65:17]
A
You hear that, Herb? I need a damn book. I collect. I have all kinds of books around here. He knows that. But I. Every time I find any kind of story in the industry like that, that. That Peterson one's actually really well. Really well done. You can find the Peterson ones on the Internet, too. I found the other day, they have a. This one right here.
- [65:36]
B
Yeah.
- [65:36]
A
They have a whole PDF, so you can't. Anybody can just go read the Peterson history and the stuff they did. Like, the equipment that they would build back in the day was wacky. Just wacky stuff. Like the double. They made, like the two D8s.
- [65:52]
B
Yeah.
- [65:53]
A
Put together. Then the two D9s, I think, were butt up against each other long ways because caterpillar, the D10, didn't exist and they needed a bigger dozer. So they're like, well, why don't we just start putting dozers together?
- [66:05]
B
So they made a D18.
- [66:07]
A
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So they. Yeah, they just put them together. And then I think Caterpillar bought the patent to it. And then Caterpillar came out the D10, which then made that obsolete. But that was the kind of stuff they're doing. And they, I, I don't know who they hired or what, but they put all the history together, and it's brilliant. But stuff like that, like that Herb is doing, and there's a few other books I know being authored currently with some pretty cool other companies that's just, that's so valuable to keep. And that's where, like, somebody like Herb. I've been reflecting upon this a lot. I give a huge amount of credit to. There are a lot of. And, sorry, Herb, Old timers in the industry that have built.
- [66:55]
B
He's earned it.
- [66:55]
A
He's earned it. He's got, He's. He's got gray hair that have built the industry as we know it. And they've been doing it for whatever, you know, 40 years or decades. Decades, decades. Hard work. And you know how hard it is. It's just busting your ass and it just grinds you down, you know, and they get to the end of their career, and then they're just like, they just wipe their hands of it and go to Florida. And Herb's gone to Florida, but they just go to Florida. They sell the company, they go give it to the kids, whatever it is, and just check out, and then they're just gone. They just disappear, never to be heard from again. Which is. Which is a lot of these guys. A lot of them, we still need them. That's when we need them most. Like, we need them more now than ever before. And that I really appreciate that about Herb is that. And sometimes I'm like, herb, why. I'm thinking him, why is he doing this? Like, what. What's he doing?
- [67:59]
B
He cares. Because he truly cares.
- [68:02]
A
He truly cares. And he has. He has all of these hard lessons that he's learned over decades of business, and he lived through 2008, et cetera. And he has this terrible fear of all these newcomers like yourself that have seen nothing but growth, running into something like that. And he wants to help, like, prepare better for that which we need to. And he is now just pouring himself back into the industry with nothing, nothing in return. And it's like, isn't that the point of life? The point of life? Isn't it to set up the next generation better? Isn't it to leave things better? Like, but a lot of people are sold this concept of retirement. Like, well, I. I'm going to go make a shitload of money and I'm going to go hang out on the beach, and that's that. But every time I see somebody do that they just. And Sometimes it takes 10 years, 20 years, but they deteriorate.
- [68:59]
B
Yeah, they, they go quick. My dad, my dad's worked farm. He's worked, you know, construction. And then he go home and farm and that's all he knows. He's retired now, but yet he still carries two farms.
- [69:11]
A
Yeah.
- [69:11]
B
So he's working all day every day?
- [69:13]
A
Yes.
- [69:13]
B
And I'm scared of him to quit working.
- [69:15]
A
If he stops, man, he's gone. I watched my dad stop and it's just, it's been like, it's just been one of the saddest things I've ever seen.
- [69:26]
B
It's painful to watch him to, to walk. He's got like bad sciatica but yet he's still out there grinding. Never complains about it unless I ask him. And he don't complain. He's just like, oh yeah, my leg hurts.
- [69:37]
A
Yeah, yeah, man. But that's, but that's what keeps him going. And like again, they're later in life they're most valuable, which is the irony. Like that's the, that's the curse of it all. It's like their bodies are least valuable, but their minds and what they know is most valuable. And it's like we, we don't have this, this, you know, the books are what started me thinking about. It's like we don't have that many books. We don't have this stuff written down somewhere. Now we can't just go. It's, it's, it's within them and if, if they don't push it down and, and, and put it in as many places as possible. If they don't plant those seeds, as many fields as possible, it's gone, it's gone forever.
- [70:23]
B
I know you've talked about this a hundred times but like the trades, you know, there was a span between my age group and like the 50 year olds that, which I'm 42. But they didn't, they went to college. Yeah, they were, they were told to go to college.
- [70:37]
A
Sure.
- [70:38]
B
And so like there's that lull of a good aged, a currently good aged, you know, foreman, leader, manager.
- [70:47]
A
Yeah.
- [70:48]
B
So we're, you know, we got 30 year old managers, which is fine and great because they have great minds. Um, but like the experience of the 30 years in the business isn't there at the moment. It's like the 40 years and like, hey, it's time to retire, it's time to get out of this. Or there's a, hey, I'm, I only got like 10 years of experience, So I would. We don't have any. My vice president, he's been in it for 30 years, so he's kind of that timeframe, you know, he. He realized at a young age, like, this is what I need to do. And he's great at it. And then I'm 10 years behind him. But we have the experience. That's where we excel. We're not natural managers because we grew up in that. Cuss them out, go back to work. You're used to getting cussing out for doing something silly, but now we've got to develop ourselves to manage these younger guys at a differently. We've got to be more gentle. We got to be. We got to tell them the same thing 100 different times. And we get it, but it's still frustrating.
- [72:00]
A
Yeah.
- [72:01]
B
And so, like, I wish we had those old. Those old heads, as we call them, to help guide us, because I don't know that they would really know how to talk to these young kids, neither.
- [72:12]
A
No.
- [72:13]
B
And it's hard to have that foreman at that, you know, 40 year mark ready to retire that, you know, doesn't like to deal with these kids.
- [72:21]
A
But I. And see, this is where I go back and forth. Like, I saw this video the other day that was pretty funny. It was like. It was like, which. Which kind of. Which kind of leader would you rather work for? And it was like a guy, and it was like a big GC project. And he was clearly a gc. Some guy to college. And he's like, all right, everybody, let's do stretch and flex. And he puts on. He puts on the music on the big speaker and everybody's like, all right, you know, put your, Put your hand to the left. Now put your hand. And it's going around the circle. And then, and then it cuts to the next video and it's like some, Some. Some old guy and it's in the dark. It's clearly another job site meeting. And he's like, listen, if I have to tell you what, one more time, to park out of the way, like, just chewing these guys out, just chewing their asses. And I was sitting there, I was like, okay, I, I understand the value of appreciation and of positive words and of smiles this and that, but I also have lessons learned by getting my ass chewed.
- [73:28]
B
Yeah.
- [73:29]
A
And I'm grateful for those lessons because they have made me better. They have made me way more capable. They have. Like growing up my, My. My dad, I didn't get ass chewings at home, which is unusual. I feel like for A father for a boomer father. Yeah, he's very, very kind individual. But then I would go to my friend's house and his dad. Oh boy, we got our asses reamed, like for seemingly, for seemingly mundane shit, right? For just simple, simple, simple stuff. Like one time we had all this ice cream at home and it was, you know, like normal ice cream, kind of heavier ice cream, and we wanted soft serve ice cream. So we went down, we're like 2012, like 13 years old. We're old enough, but we, we walk into town and we go get self serve ice cream or soft serve ice cream cones and we come back with our ice cream cones and he's just, we walk up to him and he's just staring at us eating our ice cream cones and we're, he's like, what are those? Why? Well, we went down, we got some ice cream. He's like, he, I feel like he just said something, probably something along the lines like, you dumb. Like, we've got ice cream here and it's free and you're going to go down and spend money on ice cream. Like, how dumb, how dumb are you to. And I, at the time, you just think it's like, all right, this is way out of hand. Like, this is so far off.
- [75:02]
B
He's so mean.
- [75:03]
A
But yeah, yeah, yeah, like, you don't enjoy it at all. But after the fact, I am so grateful that I had those ass chewings. Because had I not had those ass chewings when I got into construction at 18 or the real world at 18, I would have, I would have just.
- [75:18]
B
Cried and quit on day one.
- [75:20]
A
Dude, I would, I would have quit on day one. I would have quit.
- [75:23]
B
We've had those.
- [75:23]
A
There's just no way. I just. And that, that is how the world works. Like, the world, it's not friendly, it's not fun, it's not fair, it's not. It's not kind. It's brutal. Like, it will eat you, chew you up, spit you out. And so there is a place, I think, for. I just think people have lost their way a little bit. Like, I think there's a place for both. Is my very roundabout way of getting to my point is I think there's a place for both. I think there's a place for, hey, I need to do better as a leader. I can communicate better. I can meet people where they are. I can build relationships, I can talk to them about their lives, like, what's going on? And I can, I can be genuinely interested in what's going on in their life because they've got a life. Like I have a life. And that life impacts what's going on today, whether I like it or not. And then there's another point of it. There's the other side of it where like, sometimes you just have to crawl up somebody's ass.
- [76:29]
B
Sometimes you do. And there's. There's guys that are like, I need that. Like, no, you don't. You're not going to do well with that if that's all we give you.
- [76:36]
A
Yeah, sure. Yes. It can't be everything because then. Then you just hate everybody.
- [76:40]
B
Exactly.
- [76:40]
A
And you resent everybody. And you either want to quit or go do terrible things, whatever it is.
- [76:45]
B
Or you don't want to come to a job site. It's like, I don't want to go to work.
- [76:48]
A
Yeah.
- [76:49]
B
Then you start missing, you know, it becomes a problem. Yeah. It's always the same story.
- [76:53]
A
Yep. Yeah.
- [76:55]
B
So, like, you gotta lead differently than we. Than they used to.
- [76:59]
A
I think it's like maybe 80, 20 blend. Like 80%. Let's build people up. But then 20%. Sometimes you need your attitude.
- [77:06]
B
But where do you put the passive aggressive in there? 10%.
- [77:10]
A
Yeah. Maybe 70, 20 with like a 10% gray passive aggressive.
- [77:15]
B
I lead like that sometimes, you know, somebody does something wrong, like, did you learn anything?
- [77:19]
A
Uhhuh. Yeah. Yeah, I. You know, that's.
- [77:24]
B
That's. That's me being mean, I guess, is that's my passive.
- [77:27]
A
Well, we're. Human beings are flawed. We're all flawed. Boy, am I flawed. I am really struggling some days. But I. My point is, I do, I do. I don't think anybody's wrong here. But I think just my way or the highway is just. That's not reasonable and it will not work.
- [77:52]
B
No, you have to. You have to calm your mind and get in the right space and. And figure out how to talk to this person. Because. Yeah, I can speak to you that way and you'll be fine with it. But the next person, like, I gotta learn how to talk to that person. Sure. And everybody's different. Everybody. You know, nobody's built the same anymore.
- [78:10]
A
No.
- [78:11]
B
I feel like. I feel like certain generations were. They were almost like identical type people. They also went to, you know, World War II and yes. Came back the same person.
- [78:21]
A
Toast the holidays in a new way and raise a glass of rumchata, A delicious creamy blend of horchata with rum. Enjoy it over ice or in your coffee. Rumchata. Your holiday cocktails just got sweeter. Tap or Click the banner for more. Drink responsibly. Caribbean rum with real dairy cream, natural and artificial flavors. Alcohol 13.75% by volume 27.5 proof. Copyright 2025 Agave Loco Brands, Pojoaquee, Wisconsin. All rights reserved. Well, I mean, I do. There's the, there's the facts that every generation has the same complaint about the previous generation, which is true. But then there's also the fact that life in America has been pretty damn good since World War II and even before then because like since the Depression, really, you could argue like we didn't get flattened during World War II. We were untouched. Actually, America was never better during World War II because we were the, the, the economic machine behind the whole war effort. And then Post World War II, it's just been nothing but good from a big picture standpoint. And so that's, you know, that's nearly a century of nothing but good. And when you've got nothing but good, you can't blame.
- [79:43]
B
Or we're getting better every day and every century, but yet media is not going to show that.
- [79:48]
A
No, no.
- [79:49]
B
It makes us all feel like the world's going to hell. Sure, but we're getting better.
- [79:55]
A
But my, my, like part of. I can, I can, I can really relate to kids now too, because I grew up. I talk about it because it illustrates the point that I shouldn't be here. I, I didn't have the typical construction upbringing. I grew up in Paradise Valley, Arizona. It was.
- [80:13]
B
Sounds nice.
- [80:15]
A
It sounds, it's it. I tell everybody Scottsdale, Scottsdale is like the less well off part of town. So Paradise Valley is where all these old rich people are. And that was where, that's where I came up. We had landscapers. We didn't do any work. Yeah, there was, there was nothing to do around the house. We might have had a hammer to like hang pictures up, but that was.
- [80:40]
B
That.
- [80:42]
A
That was the extent of anything really going on from a work perspective within my household. My dad was as white collar as possible. He was a, he was a tax lawyer. And so, and, and, and I was just removed from any kind of work growing up now. So when I, when I started in construction, I'd never been on a construction site. I didn't know what a ratchet strap was. I didn't really know how to shovel. I didn't know how to sweep. I didn't know how to do any kind of basics whatsoever. Yeah, is that my fault? Like, it's not because I was lazy. It's not because I'm Stupid or less able. I just wasn't raised in that world. But does that. Does that disqualify me from this life?
- [81:32]
B
It's. It's. It helps it. Like you came into it because most of us are farmers from small towns, and that's all we know. Either farm or move dirt.
- [81:42]
A
Most of the older generation.
- [81:44]
B
Yeah.
- [81:44]
A
But now, like, your kids, they're growing up in a house.
- [81:48]
B
Yeah. They don't.
- [81:49]
A
In a neighborhood.
- [81:50]
B
We don't have farms anymore.
- [81:51]
A
No, no.
- [81:52]
B
The farms are turned into neighborhoods.
- [81:53]
A
Exactly. Everybody's kids because of us. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So the farms are no more. Everybody's growing up now in a house, in a neighborhood. You don't really. You've got landscapers or maybe dad mows the lawn. That's about it, though. Like, life's so good that you're. You're disconnected from all that stuff.
- [82:11]
B
Yep.
- [82:13]
A
And so there's no. And to me, it's like, it's obvious why these kids don't know how to do anything. Because they haven't had to do anything.
- [82:20]
B
No. And nowadays you can hire assemblers to put your desk together.
- [82:24]
A
Yeah.
- [82:25]
B
So you don't even do it.
- [82:26]
A
You don't even need to do it.
- [82:26]
B
That's what I've done all week, is I put, you know, we just. We moved into a new spot building over from where we're at. We still have the old, you know, little spot in the retail building. We don't have a shop. We have like a storage area, warehouse type space. But it has more offices now because we plan on growing this year. You know, with the amount of work we've been bidding and three estimators, like, we're ready to do it again. And I've been putting desks together all week. It's like eight offices. So I've been putting desk whiteboards, filing cabinets, all kinds of stuff. I buy everything from Amazon, keep it super cheap. $136, you know, cabinet for pens and pencils and stuff.
- [83:09]
A
Sure.
- [83:09]
B
Desk are nice. You know, I want them to stand up whenever they want to, but I still keep everything super cheap. Just try. Keep money in our pockets. But. Sorry, I forgot where we were going.
- [83:25]
A
You didn't hire the guy off Facebook to put it all together?
- [83:27]
B
No, I didn't hire the assembler. I did, actually, but then when he got. He called me the night before and said, hey, you know, you only paid for one of those desks. I was like, all right, just forget it. I'll. I'll do it. Like, why would I buy four and Expect four of them to be built. And, you know, y' all only charged me for one. Yeah, I don't think that was my fault.
- [83:49]
A
Going. Going back to the. The whole LinkedIn stuff. What. What got you sharing so much on LinkedIn? Because you. You do share a lot. Like, you do just put it all on there.
- [84:03]
B
Yeah, that's. That's kind of been. It's. It's been fun. I think that's maybe where my head might get too big. Sometimes people say that, you know, they hit me up randomly, like, hey, I want to meet you. Like, I love your store. I love the way you've done things. You know, you're very honest, transparent. And I tried to be without, like, hurting people's feelings. You know, if a GC don't pay on time, I find a way to write that, to say, you know, it's biblical that you pay your bills, you pay your debts.
- [84:31]
A
Yeah.
- [84:32]
B
So, you know, I made a post about that. Got a. Got a lot of good comments and stuff like that. But people love how honest and transparent I am about starting a company.
- [84:43]
A
But how. But how'd you. How'd you even start with being honest and transparent, though? Because you're not, like, you're not a very flashy guy. You're not. Okay, everybody look at me.
- [84:54]
B
So I don't want to be.
- [84:56]
A
No, I know. Yes.
- [84:57]
B
In my twenties. Yes.
- [84:59]
A
Yeah, sure.
- [84:59]
B
So I guess I know how to be okay. But I just. I don't know. I just started writing and I wanted people to know, like, how hard it was. And I've gotten over that now because I've noticed a lot of people start to start their same company and they say, oh, how hard it is. And it's written by chat. GPT.
- [85:20]
A
Yeah.
- [85:21]
B
And I'm like, okay, so you found the formula. There is a formula too. When you start a business, you tell everybody how hard it is. What I learned today, that type of stuff. And you get. Yeah, you get all the likes, all the comments, all the woohoos. Great job learning.
- [85:39]
A
Yeah, congratulations. And you started a business.
- [85:41]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, it is. It. Yeah. So I learned to write differently because I did start writing like that. You know, I was honest, transparent, and learned that I want to. I want to. I want to show a little different side of it sometimes. I want to. I want to be honest. And I want people to know, like, how hard Bear is trying. And it's worked.
- [86:06]
A
I think it has.
- [86:07]
B
I mean, there. I've had a developer say, you know, I want to use you Just because of what I've seen on LinkedIn.
- [86:13]
A
Yeah.
- [86:14]
B
He's like, you know, I've got other contractors I work with, but here's here, bid this one. And we bid it, got in the right price point and won the job. He's excited to use us just because of how honest I am. And that's how, that's who I am in meetings and stuff. I tell you know, my sales pitch right now is like, look, everybody can do the job. The job's gonna get done. Sure. I mean, there's a set of plans that show them how to do it.
- [86:39]
A
And you're building. It's the same set that another contract reviews.
- [86:42]
B
Exactly.
- [86:42]
A
It has to be.
- [86:43]
B
And it's gonna look the same way, you know, Contract reason.
- [86:46]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [86:47]
B
Yeah. So I was like, everybody's gonna be able to finish the jobs. How quickly do you want it done? Do you want to work? What type of person do you want to work with? Because everybody says, and you hear this all the time in the meetings, oh, we don't, we don't always go with the lowest bidder. We go with the most accurate scope and bid.
- [87:08]
A
Yeah.
- [87:08]
B
But then when you lose the bid, it's because you weren't the lowest bidder. I don't know what to do here. So you have to get creative. And that's why, you know, we, we try to ve options on the front end so that we do come in low because there's that other avenue if you come in too low because you, you see another way to build it. They, a lot of them say, oh, we usually kick out the cheapest bid so nobody does anything the same. So you have to learn that developer and what they're actually looking for. And so we communicate with them on the front end during the whole bid process and we try to give them the best value. We give them a full scope of what we're going to do. Inclusions, exclusions. We don't just give them one lump sum. I might be telling too much right now, but. Well, I'm here to help the industry and that's what my posts are about.
- [88:06]
A
Yeah.
- [88:06]
B
But we give them full scope and we try to make it to where they don't have to ask questions.
- [88:14]
A
But your posts come off that way. It's funny too. You talked about Chat GPT. Anybody that can write and think for themselves can recognize something written by ChatGPT. You're not. If you're writing with Chat, you're not fooling anybody. And I don't waste my time reading that Stuff. I don't have time for it.
- [88:33]
B
I don't either.
- [88:34]
A
It's just garbage.
- [88:35]
B
You can chatgpt writes the same way it does, and after your second or third time trying it, you're like, hold on. This feels like something else that I tried to get chat GPT to write.
- [88:46]
A
Well, I. I don't.
- [88:47]
B
So then you start asking, like, hey, can you write it in a snarky tone?
- [88:50]
A
Yeah.
- [88:51]
B
But it still sounds the same.
- [88:52]
A
Yeah. And it still structures it the same way.
- [88:54]
B
And you're like, okay.
- [88:55]
A
Still uses emojis.
- [88:57]
B
Yeah.
- [88:57]
A
I don't know why.
- [88:58]
B
And that dash. Just put a comma and continue your yeah, run sentence.
- [89:02]
A
I am a huge EM dash fan, but I know how to use an EM dash. Unfortunately, I hate them. And now I look like an asshole.
- [89:09]
B
Now you look like you.
- [89:11]
A
Yeah.
- [89:11]
B
Yes. Yeah.
- [89:12]
A
Because it's like, shame on me for actually learning grammar and writing, but. But now I don't. I love. I love what it can do for. For a lot of different things. I don't use it for writing, though, because writing, to me, it's. It's Writing is thought. And I don't want something else thinking for me, because then I'm not thinking.
- [89:39]
B
Exactly.
- [89:39]
A
I have to think through it. I have to understand how I want to tell something. And then I have to critically ask myself, am I making the point here that I want to be making, or is it a little less clear? Can I make it more clear? Or did I go off on this tangent here that I don't actually need? Like, all of that's valuable. All of that's really valuable. And these people are completely missing the point.
- [90:05]
B
They are. It's just. Some of them are just put stuff out there just to keep their name.
- [90:11]
A
Yeah.
- [90:12]
B
There's scroll, scroll, scroll. Gee, this guy's everywhere.
- [90:15]
A
Yeah.
- [90:16]
B
But I find the value in writing an honest story and just telling them what's going on.
- [90:24]
A
But that's. But that's why your stuff does. Well. You can put a picture of your shirt on the Internet with a story.
- [90:30]
B
Yeah.
- [90:30]
A
That's honest.
- [90:32]
B
I was scared to put a picture of, like, me because, you know, you get. You get the. The. I guess. I don't know. I don't want to say it, but there's people that sail a different way. People that sail with a picture of them.
- [90:47]
A
I've noticed those people in a mirror.
- [90:50]
B
And I'm like, that's not. That's not how you sell. That's not getting anything except for random guys, just. And I delete those people. Well, that like the stuff.
- [90:59]
A
So some of those, though, it's like, how do you get so many pictures of yourself? Like, that's what I'm wondering. Where do you even get these pictures? Who's taking these pictures?
- [91:09]
B
I've started not even taking pictures of me. It's like, it's just my kids now. And like, the kids, the pictures gonna look like they don't have a dad because, like, I don't put myself in the pictures no more.
- [91:19]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But. But again, that's the point is you can go. You can tell these stories. You can be honest. Without a picture of yourself, I think everybody goes to, well, I don't want a bunch of selfies on LinkedIn. It's like, yeah, don't do that. You scroll my feed. How many pictures of every once in a while when I do something worth talking about. But it's not just me for the sake of, you know, here's the lesson I learned in business today.
- [91:47]
B
Right.
- [91:48]
A
And then a picture of me. Like, no, we're not doing that.
- [91:51]
B
Yeah. No, the way you get, I guess, impressions or whatever it is is you got to have a good title line because, I mean, typically you got the picture and then you got like just one sentence that they can read. Yeah, that's got time in.
- [92:07]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I always have a title on mine.
- [92:11]
B
I got we last. I think it was last Friday or last Friday before we turned in $25 million worth on like six projects.
- [92:18]
A
I saw that post and I know exactly what I saw that title.
- [92:20]
B
Yeah. And like 25 million. Like, oh, gee, what are they doing? And so like, they read it and then they got like 230 something thousand. Wow.
- [92:30]
A
It is amazing.
- [92:31]
B
And it sucks. It kind of. Because your phone just goes off all day long.
- [92:36]
A
Yeah.
- [92:36]
B
You got to turn the notifications off.
- [92:38]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I don't have notifications when, like.
- [92:40]
B
Every hour you get a thousand views. It's like, what is going on?
- [92:43]
A
No, I've turned it. I don't. The only notification that goes to my phone is if somebody calls me. That's it.
- [92:49]
B
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. You have to.
- [92:51]
A
Everything else is off. Yeah. Or the people with. I don't know. Do you have an Apple? Yeah. You don't have an Apple Watch? I don't know if people have those.
- [92:57]
B
Apple Watch. Yeah.
- [92:58]
A
With notifications on. I see it going all the time. Like, how do you get anything done?
- [93:03]
B
No, even if yours was going off.
- [93:05]
A
I'd be like, you want to look at it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, it's just, who is it? But it. I wanted to definitely touch on LinkedIn with you, though, because LinkedIn is such a weapon. I, I. So one of my main points in, in my talk at dirtworld, and it has been for years, and it will continue to be this way, everybody's like, well, no one understands what we do. No one understands what we do. It's like, yeah, that's a fair assessment. That's accurate. I would say so. So whose job is it to tell people what it is that we do? Whose job is it? Who's gonna do it? And it's like, well, no one else is doing it for us. Hollywood's not gonna do it for us. Television's not doing it for us. The news isn't doing it for us. Me, I mean, I'm doing my best, but.
- [94:05]
B
Well, that was always my stick on you was like, I loved what you were doing, but you were doing it for people that already had money. Yeah, Like, I needed you.
- [94:15]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [94:16]
B
Like, but you were, you know, you were working for the bigger companies.
- [94:20]
A
Well, Dylan caught me at a good time.
- [94:21]
B
Yeah.
- [94:22]
A
Because I, I didn't have anything when Dylan called me with Rosso. But, but, but, but. And that's always my point, though, is like, I can't do it for everybody. I can't. I can't. I can't mathematically, physically do it for everybody. I. And as an industry, I shouldn't be doing it. We need everybody doing look different.
- [94:43]
B
Yes.
- [94:44]
A
1. Everybody has a unique perspective. There's all these different companies in different areas. There's all these different crews doing different work. We need everybody talking about it, telling stories about it, explaining what the heck's going on. That's like putting signs out as far as who's doing the work. Like, what a crazy concept. Wow. We're building this job, like, do you know me? Interstate projects. I drive by and it's like, well, who's doing this? Couldn't tell you.
- [95:10]
B
Well, so that's, that's a. They're pushing me to do that because we're doing one across from the Prologis on 24. And like, you can see the job driving down 24. And about two weeks from now, we're on blast and we're going to do rolling roadblocks on I24.
- [95:27]
A
Nice.
- [95:29]
B
Do I want my name on Blasted Rock hitting the road. Do I want my name on, you know, like, stop in traffic and everybody drive by. So there's, there's back End thoughts like, do you want that they're maybe, maybe once it's done and there's no more rolling roadblocks.
- [95:46]
A
No, because it's one. If rock ends up on the road, they're coming for you regardless.
- [95:52]
B
We're going to clean it off before they drive by.
- [95:55]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But they're. That that's going to happen. If something happens. It'll come back to you regardless. I think. But two, I think it's, it's an, it's an opportunity to engage with the public. It is like I think, I think we go.
- [96:11]
B
But who am I selling to? I'm selling to developers and GCs. I'm not really selling to, you know, the, the marketplace, Facebook grandma's that need her culvert replaced and her new concrete driveway.
- [96:26]
A
Sure.
- [96:27]
B
So like I don't. And that project, it's. I think those houses are 40 years old. This is the last phase apparently because it's finally hitting the interstate. But on day one, I got phone calls from someone in the neighborhood that we cracked their driveway. I looked on Google, you know, Google Earth, Google Maps. It was cracked in 2013. And thank God for, you know, that technology.
- [96:54]
A
Yeah.
- [96:54]
B
But day one, someone's looking for something.
- [97:00]
A
Yeah.
- [97:01]
B
And she, they wouldn't have had my, my number if it wasn't for the city. They called the city. But if my name is plastered on, plastered on, you know, a billboard on that job site, everybody's going to be calling me.
- [97:13]
A
I guess the way I'll put it is I've never. People that do do it. Okay. So if it was. And I guess my argument before this was like Hewitt Kiewit's pretty good at building stuff. They've been around for a while. They've been. They're one of the longest standing contractors in America since 1880 something. When they roll into a project, you know, it's a Kiwa job. They're not shy about telling you no. And if it was bad business, the longest standing contractor in America wouldn't be doing it. And that's why I went to work for Kiewit. I didn't know anything about them. They just looked badass. I just wanted a yellow black truck.
- [97:52]
B
Yeah.
- [97:53]
A
Straight up. That was 20 year old Aaron Logic.
- [97:57]
B
I'm sure a lot of their marketing is to get the local employees to come work for them. You know, putting a billboard up and seeing all those trucks and machines like yeah, they're huge.
- [98:07]
A
All those trucks, the Conexes, like everything is keywit.
- [98:11]
B
Yeah.
- [98:11]
A
You know, it's A keywit job. I've just, I've never. Somebody that's done it, I've never talked to them, been like, man, that was a huge mistake. I've heard a lot of reasons against it, but then I've never talked to somebody that's done it and said, no, stupid. I wish we didn't do that.
- [98:27]
B
Yeah. And I get that's something we're talking about, but because I, I was ready to do it too. Like, yeah, let's post it. You know, let's do a big old sign board right at the interstate. Let everybody see who is on this job site.
- [98:42]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [98:42]
B
But the most important people that need to know we're on the job site already know we're on the job site because they lost the bid.
- [98:49]
A
Well, but from a, From a hiring standpoint, and even if you, you know, recruit next year, from a brand standpoint, I do think it goes a long ways. Yeah. Like, you do want all the other people that are working at different contractors driving by that side every day looking at your name because when they're pissed off, when they want to. When they want to go somewhere else because they are getting yelled and screamed at too much. A year from now.
- [99:16]
B
When they, like, passive aggressive.
- [99:17]
A
Yeah, Bear Construction. Yeah, let me give them a shout.
- [99:20]
B
I've. I've had a problem with that because I am, you know, I buddy up with everybody. Like, you know, other contractors in town. Like, I buddy up with them. So I hate to steal or take their people.
- [99:31]
A
Someone coming to you is not your problem.
- [99:33]
B
No, exactly. Yeah. And I do see it that way, but also, like, I don't actively go after people that are with their company.
- [99:43]
A
No, no, no. But that's not active.
- [99:45]
B
But if I put an ad up and they come to me. Yes. I'm fine with, you know, them leaving to come to us.
- [99:52]
A
Yeah.
- [99:52]
B
But I never went out and tried to hire someone out of someone's office, out of someone's excavator.
- [99:59]
A
No, that's, that's not just poor form. I think that's just like dumb business. That's just dumb.
- [100:07]
B
I don't. Yeah, you. I don't. I don't think I've made any enemies here in Nashville. I've made buddies that, you know, like to bounce ideas off of me. And we talk. And even, you know, estimators of other companies, I talk to them all the time. Yeah, we try to, you know, we try to beat other people out of the business. And, you know, if we're having problems with, you know, someone Just coming in, undercutting every single thing. We'll talk about, like, what are they doing? What are they seeing that we're not. We don't share, you know, numbers and high end information, but we discuss certain topics that need to be discussed.
- [100:42]
A
Sure.
- [100:43]
B
Because it needs to be talked about.
- [100:45]
A
Well, and you're, you're, again, you're only as good as the overall marketplace.
- [100:49]
B
That's it.
- [100:50]
A
That's all there is to it. No, like you're, you're only as good as the marketplace. And if you're not looking to make the marketplace better, you're just gonna get dragged further and further down.
- [100:59]
B
No, I'm not about like putting these people out of business. You know, they're here for, for their individuals too. Especially, like the people I talk to are about the employees. And we're all trying to, you know, we, we talk about other ways that we can dive into our employees. You know, I'm in a Christian, a Christian group, leadership group. And we, you know, they've helped me, they probably help me in business more than anything else. When we do our core presentations, I basically cry every single time. Once a year I tell them how business is, how this is going, and we give like two pain points that we need real, true leadership in. And like, I typically end up crying. Typically. Sorry, I keep saying that, but most of the time they're saying like, Brian, you're doing a good job. Like, why are you so worried about things? Like, everything looks like you're doing it the way you should. You're treating the people way you should. You love your people. Like, why are you stressed out? Like, it's just, I think it's part of carrying a business.
- [101:59]
A
I think so.
- [102:00]
B
But, you know, they, they helped me learn the Christian principles on how to run a business. And it saved my business probably three or four different times.
- [102:09]
A
How so?
- [102:11]
B
The lawsuit. I got scared to death of it. And then, you know, one thing, and this might sound different, but I had an employee that had a heart problem and I kept, he went into the hospital and everything, and I kept him on insurance and everything else thinking that I owe him. They told me, like, you don't owe him. He's got Medicare, he's got this, he's got that. Like he's not actively working for you. Like, you don't have to cover him. He can do all. He's got so many different avenues that would cover him that you don't have to keep him on salary, payroll, insurance, just, you know, provide for him. I was like, okay, I Was like, that didn't. That didn't feel Christian to me. But they told me, like, you don't have to do that. Sure. And just how to communicate with people, how to spread my faith. And that is not a. It's not against the law. Like, you can share your faith. You can hire specific people. You don't have to hire. Here's how you go about it. That is a huge part. You know, you can't show discrimination, but Tennessee is a right to work state, so I can hire whoever I want to.
- [103:31]
A
Yeah.
- [103:34]
B
Just any. Several personal problems. You know, we sign NDAs when we get in there, so they know a lot about my life and how to carry on.
- [103:46]
A
Sign NDAs for the group, you mean?
- [103:48]
B
Yeah.
- [103:48]
A
Okay, I see.
- [103:49]
B
You know, we, we know their whole life story. We know how their business is run. You know, we've. We've. We've sat around the table, prayed for guys that, you know, we helped them decide to close their business. Just wasn't working. We, you know, it's. Spiritually, it's. It's saved my business. It's just beautiful.
- [104:14]
A
Yeah, I. I think you need something outside of it, or else it will.
- [104:24]
B
Because I, I kept looking at, you know, like I said, everybody became a consultant in 2020. Yeah. So, like, you could, you could hire anybody at the drop of a dime to help you run your business.
- [104:36]
A
Well, it seems like there's only more of them today than ever before, too. Like, every time I go on the Internet, there's. And especially in construction now.
- [104:45]
B
Yeah. Like, I'm like, my gosh, like, how does everybody know everything in construction?
- [104:50]
A
There's a lot of people that haven't been contracted that know how to contract, but what do I know? I haven't been a contractor, so I'm not gonna say anything.
- [104:58]
B
It's definitely easier working for somebody than it is working for yourself. Yeah, I've done it differently, and I think a lot of companies are. You'll still see the guys that are, you know, have a shop in their backyard that, you know, when they get home at night, they. They're out fixing a dozer, doing this type of stuff. I would much rather hire a mechanic, pay him to. To do it, than for me to take care of it.
- [105:22]
A
Sure.
- [105:26]
B
Cpa, bookkeeper, you know, third party. I have a lot of people third party to where? Ms. Dawn, she does so much. She's HR and, you know, bookkeeping, admin, everything else. She's amazing, but I try to take stuff off of her. So I hire a third party bookkeeper. That maybe does $100 worth of work a month just to reconcile and do all that stuff. Because that's annoying. Mundane stuff. We have a third party HR company that Ms. Dawn can just send the stuff to her and they'll organize it, put it in folders and help with compliance. Like E9. All that type of stuff. I9 sorry. And that's so advantageous versus having your wife do it. Putting that pressure on her.
- [106:14]
A
Sure.
- [106:15]
B
And then just hoping it's done right.
- [106:17]
A
And having work at home all the time.
- [106:18]
B
Yeah. To where like all you do is talk with your wife about. And you get that. You know, you get the receipts put in the QuickBooks day.
- [106:26]
A
Well, and that's one of those things. Like I got a bookkeeper like week two of business and I didn't have money for a bookkeeper. But it's just. So there's some things, it's like you shouldn't be doing it yourself. You shouldn't. And even if somebody, even if you're, you're old ladies, like I'll take it off your hand. Like, no, no, it's, it's not worth it. And a bookkeeper is going to do it better than you anyway.
- [106:47]
B
All day.
- [106:48]
A
Because that's all they do. Yeah.
- [106:49]
B
That's what they know.
- [106:50]
A
That's what they know. There's some stuff that I just don't, I don't think you should do on your own. But I also think in business there's a lot of people and it's not bad. It's just different. Entrepreneurship is different than self employment. You know, like if it's just you and you run a business but it's just you, that's a different, that's a different ball game.
- [107:17]
B
Yeah.
- [107:17]
A
Then like deliberately growing and building a company. And I, I envy those people a lot of times because it's like that's, that's pretty good living. It's not my path. So I don't actually like legitimately envy it. I'm like, man, that's, that's good living though. I mean you can make great money, probably make better money doing that than anything else. You can create a lot of value in the world. But it's a completely different game.
- [107:39]
B
Yeah.
- [107:40]
A
Not even, not even close. It's just a different game. And then even within how much business you want, like do you want to be local grading contractor or do you want to be keywit?
- [107:52]
B
That's.
- [107:52]
A
Those are different games. Like, and there's just, there's different levels. It's like, it's like Anything else? There's diff. There's all different levels within, and I think a lot of people still make it, like, just. It's all just one thing. I'm like, dude, you and I, we're not playing the same game here.
- [108:07]
B
No. And there's only a certain way, certain amount that you can take it. Like, I think me and Robert, I think we could do 30 million, and then we absolutely need someone to, like, take the company. Overrun it. Yeah. And we've. I thought it was 10 million, but then we could run it at that. I was like, okay. So I had to find that baseline. And then when we get to that point, we'll. We'll do what we need to do. Bring someone else in.
- [108:37]
A
Sure.
- [108:41]
B
But I didn't. You know, the more and more you do, you kind of surprise yourself.
- [108:47]
A
Mm. Well, I think you. You just build greater capacity, too. It's just like, if for someone that's never run before, a 5k is a big deal.
- [108:56]
B
And.
- [108:57]
A
All right, I'm gonna go train 3 months for 5k. Training for 5k right now for me is like, that's insane.
- [109:02]
B
When you.
- [109:03]
A
I can go do 30k right now without even thinking. But to someone that hasn't run, they don't have that capacity. Like, 5k is big, and they've got to put in the reps and train up for that. But then you do the 5K and you're like, wait a minute, I can do a 5k? What about 10k? And then you go do a 10k? And then. Well, what about a half marathon?
- [109:21]
B
And then.
- [109:21]
A
What about a marathon? And then once you do a marathon now, everything is like, I can't believe I had to train for a 5K. It's like that. I feel like in life, in business, with stress, with communication, with relationships, with. With a lot of different things, you just build this. I mean, like, my days right now or what I can do. It's. It's. It's crazy. If I have an unencumbered day, which is usually like a Saturday for me, or Sunday, sorry, Lord, Saturday. If I just go flat out unencumbered, how much I can get done on Saturday is wild compared even two years ago.
- [110:03]
B
The time slows down on Saturdays for some reason.
- [110:05]
A
Yeah, but just my capacity to do more. I'm just so much more effective. It's like, man, I couldn't have even dreamed of doing this much just. Just two years ago. It's crazy.
- [110:17]
B
No, I'm in a. I'm in a bad spot physically. I used to play basketball three days a week. And then here, like last two years, I ain't played at all. And all I do is sit at the desk, you know, trying to grow the company.
- [110:32]
A
Sure.
- [110:33]
B
And it's depressing. Like I feel like I don't have enough time in the day because I don't have the energy.
- [110:40]
A
Yeah.
- [110:40]
B
I don't have the drive.
- [110:41]
A
Yeah.
- [110:42]
B
And it's killing me. Coca Cola for the big, for the small, the short and the tall. Peacemakers, risk takers for the optimists, pessimists for long distance love. For introverts and extroverts, the thinkers and the doers for old friends and new Coca Cola for everyone. Pick up some Coca Cola at a store near you.
- [111:13]
A
Do you walk or anything like that?
- [111:15]
B
I try to. I was, I was getting up. So like last year I did really great. I listened to Scott Peeper's podcast like non stop during, during like the summer. And I'd walk like two miles every morning. And then it got cold and I quit going outside.
- [111:34]
A
Yeah.
- [111:36]
B
But just recently I started walking again. But I can't do the 4:30. Like I just, I can't. Sure. 4:30am is tough. I'm. I'm a late afternoon. Like if I could work from 8pm to 2am I would. That's, that's kind of my time for man. That's when my.
- [111:53]
A
We're very different people.
- [111:54]
B
That's when my brain like functions and it does great stuff well.
- [111:58]
A
But you don't even. You know what I've done all summer that's been really nice is I've scheduled within my day an hour walk. And I'll do phone calls during that hour, but I'll walk for an hour out in the sun. And it is a game changer. I feel so much better.
- [112:16]
B
Yeah.
- [112:17]
A
But I have to schedule it or else it doesn't happen. Like today I didn't schedule. It didn't happen.
- [112:20]
B
That's the biggest thing. I've been going to like a golf simulator because apparently, you know, owners of construction company is supposed to play golf like every, every two days. And so I'm trying to get into it. So I've been going to golf simulator just like on Thursday at one just to kind of relieve myself from the daily doings. That's great because Thursday we do Thursday morning meetings production with PMs and then we do estimating meeting right after it.
- [112:46]
A
Yeah.
- [112:47]
B
So like information overload. So I go to lunch and then I hit some golf balls and then I come back and kind of Settle in. Like, all right, what are action points that we. That I need to get done?
- [112:58]
A
So it's like processing time almost. Oh, that's good.
- [113:01]
B
Calm down.
- [113:02]
A
That's really good.
- [113:03]
B
Get my. Get my mind back in function mode. And then the rest of that day is. What all do I need to work on? What does somebody need help with?
- [113:14]
A
Sure.
- [113:15]
B
And then Friday, we put into action what we talked about. Thursday.
- [113:19]
A
That's great. Yeah, I. I, like, before, again, I was like, well, I wouldn't have time to walk. And even when I don't do phone calls, I just walk, which is really nice just to have some time in the day to just let my brain be. I can be so much more effective the rest of the day. I'm so much better for it.
- [113:36]
B
I know this is silly, but, like, our offices don't touch. Our buildings don't touch now. And so it's actually nice for all of us to go to see the other people.
- [113:46]
A
Oh, good. Yeah, exactly. Yes.
- [113:47]
B
Like, we walk, you know, outside and get that fresh air because, like, I took the office in the back with no window, no nothing.
- [113:54]
A
Sure.
- [113:55]
B
And so we'll walk across the street and, like, man, it's nice.
- [113:59]
A
Yeah. Wow, the sun. This is so good.
- [114:01]
B
And it is, like, a refreshing, you know, atmosphere to experience.
- [114:05]
A
Well, it's. I've, like, health. I've. I've realized. So I've spent since 20. I mean, since the business started, I've gotten super focused on health. And in fairness, no wife, no children. It's a lot easier for me. But then at the same time, my schedule's pretty outlandish, especially with travel, especially the international stuff. It's gotten way outlandish. But I've gotten super, super, super serious about it. But it's. Sleep is by far number one. If I don't sleep, man, like, the other day we did a night shift, and so we wrapped up work for the day around, like, one, and then I had to be up in Charlotte from Florida, so I had to start driving at 4. So I got, like, two hours of sleep. I was jacked up for three days. I mean, it. Or when I'm traveling, like, overseas, and it, boy, does it just obliterate me. So that, I think, is, like, the bottom of the pyramid. If I don't have sleep, I'm. I'm done. Then it's like, physical health and wellness is next. I have to be doing something every day, and if I'm not, I'm in a bad place. And Sunday, I was hit by a car downtown Close to downtown. And I am just like so grateful because you're running. I was on my bike. Oh yeah.
- [115:27]
B
I was gonna say that's why I don't run.
- [115:28]
A
No, no, no. I, I've nearly been hit by a lot of cars running, but I'm. It's a little, it's a little slower and I'm usually, I usually do everything early in the morning. Like 4:00am 4:35.
- [115:42]
B
Yeah.
- [115:43]
A
And, and so there's not a whole lot going on, which I love. I hate running afternoon. But this was in the afternoon because it was so nice on Sunday. So I'd already exercised in the morning. I was like, I'll go for another ride this afternoon. So I get hit. But I'm just so grateful because my body's not messed up. Like I can still run, I can still do stuff. So it's like, oh thank God because if I lost that, I'd be going crazy. And then it's the food and whatever I'm eating.
- [116:07]
B
Yeah, that's my bad. Yeah, it's. When you grow up as a excavator operator, you wake up, you get you a Red Bull and you get your gas station biscuit and yeah. You find you that, you find you that gas station that has the best biscuits in town and then you, you go there and so you get used to that. Oh yeah. And then like my dad and you're.
- [116:28]
A
Sitting all day, you're sitting on.
- [116:30]
B
So like all you do is you just, you just sit in your, in your filth. That's all it is. Yeah. And so it's hard to get out of that, especially when you grow up. Once you've been doing that for so long and you know, you talked about kids and family and you know, I got 2 year old and 7 year old so like it has to be 4:30 to 5:30 before I wake my boy up to go to take him to the bus. Or it's gotta be, you know, at 9 o' clock once they're in bed. And you, you've hung out with the wife. So.
- [117:00]
A
Yeah, I just, the way I look at it is like, listen, I can't get to where I need to be from a business standpoint, from a life standpoint without being physically fit. Because I'm just like, sure there's some successful people out there that are fat. Maybe they're, they must be much smarter than me. Like I don't, I don't have that level of intelligence. I can't do that. I've got to have every advantage. I Need, like, I need every advantage. And to me it's like that's, that's a controllable that I have to control to get to the world I need to be in.
- [117:31]
B
What is it? What's your goal? What's your life goal? What's your business? Go. How are you gonna get there? You know, just like everybody says, start here and then work backwards.
- [117:40]
A
Yeah. For me, that's exercise. Like I'm, I, Yeah, it's. I'm again, I'm like, I'm a sporting dog, I'm a hunting dog.
- [117:47]
B
It gives you natural energy.
- [117:48]
A
Yeah. I've said this. It's like if I'm not exercised every day, I'm gonna chew up the house.
- [117:54]
B
Yeah.
- [117:54]
A
See those shoes over there? I'm gonna go right through them. When you're out to work, if you didn't take me for my walk in the morning, man, we're gonna have problems.
- [118:01]
B
Yeah.
- [118:03]
A
And like that's, that's the bottom. If I don't, if I don't have that squared away, I can't do anything else. Nothing matters.
- [118:10]
B
It's tough to be good when you're doing bad things.
- [118:13]
A
Yeah, that's good.
- [118:15]
B
Tough to be good at anything. And I'm wanting to get better. That's why I'm wanting to work on my fitness. So I have natural energy. Because, you know, at 2pm I'm drained. Absolutely drained. After I've had my first, you know, Alani, then I ate lunch. I have, I'm nothing.
- [118:35]
A
Yeah, well, it depends what you eat too. If you.
- [118:38]
B
Yeah, I don't eat.
- [118:38]
A
Good. Yeah, yeah. If you eat a shit lunch, man, it'll put you right to sleep.
- [118:43]
B
Typically chicken tenders and 30 different sauces.
- [118:48]
A
I it. But it's, it's really. I'll just. Typically for lunch I'll just eat something like meat. And I don't struggle with that at all because. But if I eat something else, if I eat something a little bit bigger with like some rice or something like that. Yeah, man, you're right to bed. I'm just, I just want to go take a two hour nap and call it a day.
- [119:07]
B
Do you have sleep apnea yet?
- [119:09]
A
No, no, no, I sleep really well.
- [119:11]
B
Good.
- [119:11]
A
I sleep really well. I, I sleep as well as I can for changing time zones, like every other day.
- [119:18]
B
Right.
- [119:18]
A
That's what, that is, the uncontrollable part of my life. And I, I do my best to manage it, but man, like I went to the doctor a few years ago. I've. What was it for? I felt like I had something going on. And he runs all the tests and everything like that. And he's like, oh, you're good to go. And he's like, I think your problem's just a lifestyle.
- [119:45]
B
And.
- [119:45]
A
And it's like, you're healthy. Everything like that. I think it's just lifestyle. I think it's your life. And I'm like, well, I. That's not changing. So it is what it is. I'll go do everything else.
- [119:58]
B
You said, I'm fine.
- [119:59]
A
I'm fine.
- [120:00]
B
But.
- [120:00]
A
But that it kicks my ass.
- [120:06]
B
We're not. When I speak with these young kids, I talk about, like, intentionality. Mm. Like, what do you want to be? You've seen your friends. What type of friend do you want to be? You want to be the successful one that goes off and does good stuff, cares about his kids, his family and stuff, or do you want to be the one that goes out and parties all the time? Well, and you're gonna have fun doing both.
- [120:26]
A
Yeah. And you have to, like, people have to reverse engineer it.
- [120:29]
B
Thank.
- [120:30]
A
Thank God I grew up where I did because I grew up around people that were very successful. And so I didn't have to learn. I didn't have to. I'll see people on the Internet talking about it. I'm like, you're. It's very easy for me to discard all this nonsense because I'm like, I've had all these tangible, real world examples. I have. I have this huge data set, and it's like, okay, they've all done this. They've all done this, and they've all done this. So if I want that, I don't quite know how to get there, but I know that I can't drink excessively. Okay, noted. I know that I have to learn how to effectively talk to people. Yes. Okay. I know that I have to get up early. I know that I have to work on weekends. Like, there's just these. And maybe it's wrong. I don't know. I haven't seen the proof yet. But I believe in it enough because I've seen it so many times over. I'm like, listen, if I just run this play for every day for years, I'll be there too.
- [121:36]
B
Yeah.
- [121:37]
A
But that's the hard part is you've got to sustain it. And it does take years. Years and years. Like that Peterson book. Really cool. But they've been doing it for, like, I don't know how many years. Sergeant. Go back to Sergeant. They've been at it for a Century. So you're seeing and, and not there's, you know, ups, downs, all arounds in that century, but they've been at it a lot longer than you.
- [122:02]
B
Yeah.
- [122:02]
A
So it's also. You fall victim to the comparison of like, man, am I the only one here? It's like, no, dude, you've been doing it for six years.
- [122:09]
B
I love the idea of mentors. I love having someone you can call to work through something. Hey, this is what I want to do. Like, does this work? Do you see this working? Absolutely not. Not that type of lifestyle, not that type of way of living.
- [122:23]
A
But there you've got to go to the. I value most the people. I've been thinking a lot about who I'm spending my time with because it's just getting more and more constrained from here. Like, it's only going in one direction and, you know, put an eventual family on top of that. I'm going to have to really prioritize at that point.
- [122:46]
B
Yes, please do.
- [122:47]
A
Yeah. One, no, my parents got divorced. I don't need to do that. I've seen it. And I'm like, I want nothing to do with that.
- [122:54]
B
Yeah, I'm one and done.
- [122:56]
A
Yeah. Yeah, that's. Fingers crossed. That's. That's what I do. One, there are people that are just very direct and I think that's very helpful. Like again, when I took my. One of my original business plans to my friend's dad, he looked at it for maybe five minutes and said it was the dumbest thing he's ever seen in his life. Which I don't think it was the dumbest thing he's ever seen in his life. But, like, he had some pretty good points. It actually turned out to be that we were doing some pretty dumb shit. And would I have liked him to deliver the message in a more constructive way? Sure. But there was no time wasted. It was just got right to the point. Here's exactly what I think, which is so helpful. And that's not most people. No, it's quite rare. And then two, I've been really watching, like, who gives me energy. That is something I'm trying to be a lot more perceptive of. And that's also quite rare too. Yeah, there's not a lot of people that will give you more. Like, you walk away from the interaction excited, like, wow, I am fired up. And I don't even know why, but I'm fired up. And it's like, well, because there's that energy transfer that's positive.
- [124:16]
B
You believe in what they're saying too.
- [124:17]
A
Yeah. Yes, yes. But they're like, I've thought a lot about that. Like the people that are just, that are just direct to the point they're not there to waste your time and care about you. But they care. They care, they care. And then two, you're, you're, you're getting, you're getting something from the interaction as well. From like an energy standpoint. You're walking away excited. Like. Yes. Like when we were talking about speakers for next year's summit from the industry, we started going down these rabbit holes, this and that and we've got all sorts of brilliant people to choose. Unbelievable folks. But I really thought, who has given me energy over the past year? Like what interactions have I walked away from? Like, wow, wow. Because there's, there's a reason for that. There's something there. Like I need to listen to that in those. The first three people that came to mind, the first three phone calls I made, all three of them are in.
- [125:21]
B
They're in. Good.
- [125:22]
A
And I'm like. And they're all three big deal. Really big deal.
- [125:26]
B
They don't speak because they care about what you're doing.
- [125:28]
A
And that's the thing. Yeah. They don't do this.
- [125:30]
B
You're doing something good and they care about it and you know, you're, you're there and you're listening.
- [125:36]
A
But it's, it's so cool to have them along and to see that and then for them to be a part of. It's just amazing.
- [125:41]
B
Yeah. We love the build with improve. Like it is a great tool. We use it and we, for like these new guys because we can't teach them every single day. But I can give them a two minute video for them to watch every morning before the job site.
- [125:59]
A
Yeah.
- [126:00]
B
You know, we can, we can take 10 minutes in our morning huddle like, hey, watch your video for the day and you know, they can talk about it. What I love about it is if, if it's a haul truck driver and he starts coming to us with different routes or something, like, hey, you know, I, I think we can do this because I, you know, I watched the video and I learned that I can do that versus just doing the exact same thing over and over again.
- [126:23]
A
Sure.
- [126:23]
B
Like there's different routes. You know, what if we side load from this pile or something and I come around this way, like if you bring that to your, your foreman, like you bring value. So I'm like, if y' all watch these videos, you get the initial learning and then as Long as you also listen to us on the job site, you have a wealth of knowledge.
- [126:46]
A
Well, it's. Yeah, it's. It's. It's the marriage of those two. It's the information with the real world experience that creates something pretty spectacular. But yeah, you don't have time to run through, Run everybody, every new person through how to walk around an excavator.
- [127:00]
B
Yeah. And this is how you know exactly. Right.
- [127:04]
A
You don't have the time for that. And to think you do. It's just, it's just, it's. It's not reasonable. But you don't have to because every excavator is the same. Like, so if you can put it into a video series, that's the same for everybody. There you go now.
- [127:21]
B
And what I really love is like the financial part of it. Yeah. Nobody knows how to buy a house. But when Randy, you know, ran through everything that all the different type of loans you can get this and that, I was like, this is great material. It starts the conversation. And that's what I love about build with improve.
- [127:42]
A
Yeah.
- [127:42]
B
Is they can watch the video if they're buying a house. Like, we just had one recently buy a house. And I went through and looked at his, you know, his catalog of what he watched. And he watched that.
- [127:53]
A
No kidding.
- [127:54]
B
So I was like, I hope he learned something from it. And I hope they, you know, implemented what they learned.
- [127:59]
A
How good is that?
- [128:00]
B
Right?
- [128:00]
A
That's amazing. That's. And that's exactly why I'm doing what I do. Like, that's exactly it.
- [128:09]
B
But that stuff, like, I can't come to them and say, hey, you buying a house soon? Like, and they're not always going to come to me and say, hey, I'm buying a house soon. You got any advice?
- [128:19]
A
Sure.
- [128:20]
B
You know, a lot of people are scared of the owner, you know.
- [128:23]
A
Yes.
- [128:24]
B
One. One sad thing that happened to me that made me learn something very valuable was I took the foreman out to lunch one day. It was like a rainy day. We had meetings all morning. And then, okay, I guess I didn't take them to lunch. I went to lunch with them and I didn't pay for it. And so they were upset with me. Every single one of them was mad that bear didn't pay for lunch that day. When the lady walked up and put the tab, asked, is this for one or separate? Separate. I wanted to be a friend. I saw it as me going to lunch with the guys. And I learned I'm not one of the guys. No, unfortunately, I'm no longer one of the guys.
- [129:16]
A
No.
- [129:17]
B
So when I'm on the job site, you know, they're. They're gonna speak to me different than, like, just bullshitting around. That's what I want. I want to be on a dozer. I want to be loading trucks. It's what I truly want to be doing right now.
- [129:29]
A
Yeah.
- [129:30]
B
But I. I'm not that guy no more. I'm not one of the guys.
- [129:35]
A
But it. It has to be that way.
- [129:37]
B
It does.
- [129:38]
A
Yeah. And I think there's different ways to do it. I read in a book one time, I think it was Sir Alex Ferguson. He's a very famous soccer, like, manager.
- [129:48]
B
Yeah.
- [129:49]
A
And he said he's never attended one of his players weddings. He's invited all the time. It's not because he's not invited. He's just like, nope, not doing it. And I thought at first when I read that, I was like, that's a little extreme, man. That's a little much. And then it's like, the further I get into it, the more I understand it. I'm like, it sucks in it and it sucks. Yeah.
- [130:17]
B
Like, yeah. When we go to lunch with them, they don't talk to me.
- [130:20]
A
Yeah.
- [130:21]
B
Even though I'm paying for it. Like, they don't talk. They don't share what's going on. They'll do it individually, and it's typically like, hey, boss, I need money. Like, you know, something's going on. Because when I first started, I was one of the guys. I was in the ditch. I was in the excavator, growing the company, and everybody started asking for money. Like, hey, I need $1,500. I need this. And I would give it to them because I felt I was supposed to. Sure. It's like, I have the money or do I? Or if I don't, like, I would still give it to them because I want to be about the employees. That's not how you be about the employees, is enable them. You. You give them financial advice. You. You help them in so many different ways. Yeah. And I was that guy. I would give him money. I'd do whatever it took to kind of make them happy. I would go to the baby showers and stuff like that, and they'd still leave. They still complain about, you know, not having enough money, not doing this. And I was like, I don't know how to fix this.
- [131:25]
A
I just had an experience. Yeah. Someone. Someone, someone. Yeah, it was. They asked for money for something, and I was like, should we pay for that? The company and if not, I'll just pay for it like myself. Just use my card. I don't care. Let's just handle it. It's more for them than is for me and we'll be done with it. But then someone else was like, no, you shouldn't do that. That was handling it. And I thought about it for a moment. It was like, I think they're right, like I shouldn't do it.
- [132:04]
B
There's evidence. You can have a care fund where, you know, three or four people in the company separate, you know, job titles and you put money into an account and they have that to spend for special occasions. Yeah.
- [132:20]
A
An emergency or something. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [132:24]
B
Yeah. You can't just, you know, give them money. It needs to be thoughtfully involved from, you know, several people that aren't me. That's how you kind of deal with it. Just have a care team with a monetary value that they can spend and they decide. Yeah. So it's, you know, peer involved. It's not management.
- [132:48]
A
I was talking to a guy the other day. He was from not that great family. Not that great. Well, not, not well off. But he's become a, he's become a manager somewhere at a big company. He's done really well and he's just worked his way up, start at the bottom. And over 20 years, you know, God has got himself into a really, really good position. And he was just like, it might sound, it might sound rude, but honestly, whenever a family member calls me, I just say, hey, is this about money? And if it is, I don't have the phone, I don't have the conversation.
- [133:16]
B
Yeah.
- [133:17]
A
And he was, he was serious. He's like. And if it's not, that's fine. But I just, that's how I start it now because it's just happened so many times.
- [133:23]
B
Yeah.
- [133:23]
A
And I, I can't do that. I've got my own family to take care of, I've got my kids, I've got my household. And that's the priority here. I can't, I can't be the bank for everybody. And it's just, it's like against that boundary that a lot of people aren't willing to set, but it's necessary to set to actually create anything sustainable.
- [133:42]
B
Yeah, I mean, they, they see me differently.
- [133:45]
A
Yeah. Well, it's almost 2:30, so that was a few hours.
- [133:54]
B
Yeah.
- [133:54]
A
I appreciate what you all, what you all are doing. I really enjoyed following along. I love the posts. That's why I reached out to you because it's just been fun learning about what the heck you've got going. And it's, you know, you're a contractor in middle Tennessee, but you've got people from all over the United States following what you're doing.
- [134:10]
B
Yeah, that's the fun part.
- [134:11]
A
It's. It's. It's really cool. I think it's really cool, and it's. It's just crazy to me. It's like, 20, 25. What you're doing should be obvious to everybody, but it's not. You're still one of the only people I know doing anything like that. Just honestly sharing about what the heck's going on and why.
- [134:28]
B
I, I. Yeah, it's fun. You know, usually after, like, a big post, two people just want to randomly meet me and talk about, like, what they've seen over the last. You know, they've been following me for a while. Like, hey, I want to meet you. Like, I've been following you for a while. Yeah. You know, I just think you're doing something really cool over there.
- [134:45]
A
It's really cool.
- [134:46]
B
I'd like to, you know, buy you coffee, eat lunch with you.
- [134:49]
A
Sure.
- [134:50]
B
Like, why I'm not doing it. I'm just. I'm just digging holes, working.
- [134:56]
A
Yeah. No, I really appreciate it. So. Yeah. Thanks for being a voice for the industry.
- [135:01]
B
I like what you're doing.
- [135:02]
A
Yeah, I appreciate that.
- [135:05]
B
Yeah.
- [135:05]
A
And thanks for being willing to sit down on a podcast.
- [135:07]
B
Of course. A lot of cool people been in this chair.
- [135:12]
A
I'm very spoiled. I'm very spoiled, Sam.