Construction Leadership w/ Wally Adamchik of Firestarter – DT 362

Summary

Dirt Talk by BuildWitt – Episode DT 362: Construction Leadership with Wally Adamchik of Firestarter

Release Date: August 7, 2025

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Introduction

In episode DT 362 of Dirt Talk, host Aaron Witt engages in a profound and candid conversation with Wally Adamchik, founder of Firestarter, and Chris, discussing the multifaceted challenges and opportunities within the construction and mining industries. This episode delves deep into mental health, leadership dynamics, generational shifts, and the imperative for systemic change to foster a healthier, more productive industry.

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1. Mental Health and the "Four Ds"

Key Discussion: Wally introduces the concept of the "Four Ds"—Drugs, Divorce, Depression, and Death—as prevalent issues tied to successful careers in the construction industry. The conversation underscores the alarming rates of mental health struggles and the critical need for addressing these challenges.

Notable Quote:

Wally Adamchik [00:00]: "That's drugs, divorce, depression, and death."

This candid acknowledgment sets the tone for a discussion on the personal toll that high-pressure careers can exert on individuals within the industry.

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2. Leadership and Industry Culture

Key Discussion: Aaron and Wally explore the existing culture within construction leadership, highlighting the need for a shift from traditional, often rigid practices to more empathetic and supportive leadership styles. They emphasize the importance of building trust and fostering positive relationships to enhance productivity and employee satisfaction.

Notable Quote:

Aaron Witt [02:46]: "I'm on my third wife. Oh, okay. I didn't figure it out for 30 years, but now I figured it out."

Aaron reflects on his personal journey toward understanding effective leadership beyond mere financial success, emphasizing the integration of faith, health, and personal well-being.

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3. Generational Shifts and Work-Life Balance

Key Discussion: The conversation delves into the evolving expectations of newer generations entering the workforce. Wally and Aaron discuss the disconnect between traditional industry demands and the modern workforce's desire for balance, flexibility, and meaningful work. They critique the entrenched "hustle culture" prevalent in construction and advocate for models that accommodate personal lives without compromising professional responsibilities.

Notable Quote:

Aaron Witt [28:16]: "I don't want to work 80 hours a week for 19 an hour. I'm sorry, that just to me, doesn't do it."

This statement encapsulates the frustration with unsustainable work expectations and the necessity for more balanced approaches to labor.

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4. Training, Feedback, and Crew Dynamics

Key Discussion: Aaron and Wally emphasize the critical role of comprehensive training and consistent feedback in enhancing crew performance and safety. They advocate for daily safety meetings that go beyond superficial checklists, fostering genuine communication and relationship-building among crew members.

Notable Quote:

Wally Adamchik [50:14]: "Now they can play the game in a better way, which is why, you know, HCSS, whatever other softwares. And I can look and go, I had a good day, I had a bad day."

Wally highlights how leveraging technology for feedback can transform daily operations, making them more efficient and fulfilling for workers.

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5. Systemic Change and Industry Evolution

Key Discussion: The dialogue shifts to the necessity for systemic change within the construction industry. Wally and Aaron argue that the industry's fragmentation and resistance to change hinder progress. They call for extreme ownership and collective responsibility to address systemic issues, drawing inspiration from international models that prioritize worker well-being and efficient practices.

Notable Quote:

Wally Adamchik [14:06]: "It's different isn't bad. And we have a tendency here to think different is bad and to ridicule different."

This insight underscores the importance of embracing diverse approaches and learning from global best practices to drive meaningful change.

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6. Events and Initiatives: Building a Better Community

Key Discussion: Aaron introduces the upcoming Ariat Dirt World Summit, emphasizing its role as a unique forum for industry leaders to collaborate, learn, and drive positive change. The summit aims to gather 1,500 industry leaders from 500 companies, featuring an impressive lineup of speakers dedicated to leadership, productivity, and community building.

Notable Quote:

Aaron Witt [16:27]: "If you're a leader looking to elevate yourself, your team, looking for like-minded individuals that are hungry, then look no further than the Ariat Dirt World Summit November 5th through the 7th in Dallas, Texas."

This promotion highlights the summit's vision to foster a collaborative environment for advancing industry standards.

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7. Work-Life Balance and Employee Retention

Key Discussion: The hosts discuss strategies for improving work-life balance, such as flexible scheduling and recognizing employees' personal commitments. They share real-life anecdotes illustrating the positive impacts of accommodating employees' needs, which in turn enhances loyalty and productivity.

Notable Quote:

Aaron Witt [93:56]: "We need to accommodate that as a business or else we lose this person or their family deteriorates or something like that."

Aaron stresses the importance of understanding and supporting employees' personal lives to ensure their well-being and the company's success.

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8. Future Outlook and Opportunities

Key Discussion: Looking ahead, Aaron and Wally express optimism about the industry's future, driven by a new generation of dynamic contractors committed to change. They foresee significant turnover in the coming decades, presenting opportunities for innovative companies to establish themselves as industry leaders through improved culture, training, and leadership practices.

Notable Quote:

Wally Adamchik [90:19]: "I'm as excited as I've ever been because there's this opportunity, I think, and it's a small one, but for the folks that want to be part of it, it's like, let's go."

This forward-looking perspective emphasizes the potential for transformative growth and the creation of a more sustainable, fulfilling industry landscape.

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Conclusion

Episode DT 362 of Dirt Talk offers an in-depth exploration of the pressing issues facing the construction and mining industries today. Through honest dialogue, Wally Adamchik and Aaron Witt illuminate the path toward a more compassionate, efficient, and resilient industry. By addressing mental health, embracing generational shifts, enhancing leadership, and fostering systemic change, the episode serves as a beacon for those committed to building a better future in construction.

For more insights and updates, visit Dirtworld.com and follow Wally at wallyadamchik.com or constructionleadership.com.

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This summary captures the essence of the discussion, highlighting key themes and including impactful quotes to provide a comprehensive overview for listeners and non-listeners alike.

Transcript

[Wally Adamcheck]

Not to laugh, but years back, I was talking to an industry leader and we were talking about. He goes, oh, Wally, that's the four Ds. And I'm like, what's that? He goes, oh, that's drugs, divorce, depression, and death.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And we chuckle about it, but you can't. With the suicide rate where it is now and mental health where it is.

[Aaron]

Drug overdose.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yeah, that. So drugs, divorce, depression, and death. And you go, if that's the outcome of a, quote, successful career. Is it. Is it really successful? And you go, well, that's not everybody. There's successful people. Well, yes, there are. What are they doing different? Well, they got their faith, they got their health, they've got some. And maybe they are working 70, 80 hours, but at some point it doesn't work. Oh, no. I'm on my third wife. Oh, okay.

[Chris]

Right.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I didn't figure it out for 30 years, but now I figured it out. Right.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Look, there are successful companies, successful people. You know, we're kind of pointing on the, quote, bad side, but the system would give us more bad examples than good examples.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And that's why I wake up in the morning, because I know it can be better. What are you working on?

[Aaron]

What am I working on?

[Chris]

I don't know.

[Aaron]

There's a lot going on right now. Like I said, we have a trip abroad in a few weeks.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Preparing. Just tying up loose ends, podcasting to get ahead.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Are you.

[Aaron]

Do you.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Are you speaking internationally?

[Aaron]

No.

[Wally Adamcheck]

So you're learning when you go, because here you'll speak at conferences and companies and spread the word a little bit, the vision a little bit. And what you're learning a little bit, but you're not seeing those opportunities or just that people aren't seeing. That's not showing up, like, to speak at Bauma or something like that, as opposed to a con expo.

[Aaron]

I don't chase that kind of stuff down, and I don't really want to. Honestly, I. Speaking's tough because, as you know, it's. It's very time and energy consuming, but it's not my job.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Like, it's. It's. It's becoming a little bit more of my job. And especially that was part of making Randy CEO of the company, was to take some of that just off, allow him to do that. He's better at that than I am anyway. Like, I was just listening to him this morning talk numbers. It's just like, he is so much better at this than I am. By, like, I'm not. I'm not Even catching up in my lifetime, like, so well, he's done it.

[Chris]

And.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah, but that's. But it's also just his skill set. It's how his mind works. Like, my mind just does not work that way. But it's like, what does it. Where does it work? Where can I apply it? And I can apply it from a brand influence, building trust of the industry perspective, the international stuff. Like, if I go international, I would much rather be in a coal mine than speaking.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

If I'm going to go to the trouble of going to Australia, like, traveling 24 hours, I don't really want to go give a talk. I want to go to a coal mine. I want to go see iron ore. I want to go into a tunnel, whatever it is. Like, I want to experience not just the country, but the infrastructure and the industry.

[Wally Adamcheck]

So when you talk about those mines being technologically advanced, scale, etc. And you go, okay, yeah, but here I am running a $30 million utility company. Do I. Do I. Am I missing something? And, you know, do I think that your stuff is. Oh, that's just big. And I can't do that. I mean, is there a translation loss?

[Aaron]

Sometimes there is, but that's what I'm trying. So when I started speaking, I never. I think people that don't like me misinterpret what the heck's going on here. And that's fair. I would. I would have the same interpretation. Like, my goal was never to create any kind of fucking attention about. About me.

[Chris]

Right.

[Aaron]

I am still very uncomfortable with it.

[Wally Adamcheck]

It's not who you are.

[Aaron]

I don't. Yeah, I do not at all want to be on a fucking stick. I don't want to be speaking. Like, that's not the play, man. And the money I make from speaking goes into the company. I don't see a lick of that. And if I did, I would be living much nicer than I do. Like, I would have a really good lifestyle right now if I saw even a percent of that income. That's just not the play. But I've realized I'm in this unique position, so I better get over myself and talk about what the heck I'm seeing. Because I'm the only person seeing what I'm seeing. I'm the only person with this perspective. And I think it's a very powerful perspective. And the irony is I'm young, so people are like, what the fuck do you know? But the irony is I'm only able to create this perspective because I'm young. Because I'm just this kid that is not threatening. I'm small. I can't grow facial hair. I still look like I'm 12. I don't have a competing business with them. I'm not gonna go bid against them next week. The information I have access to is just. Is wild. I have better access to the industry than the CEO of Caterpillar does, which is crazy to think. And that is completely legitimate because I just. I know that's legitimate. So when I started speaking, it was really. I wasn't good at it. Anxiety inducing. I'm just going to try to get over. Get over this. And it was trying to prove why I was on the stage, because I was. It was years ago, male, in my 20s, not sure about myself, not confident I'm gonna overcompensate. I'm gonna try to prove. Justify my existence, prove I'm smart. I got over that, thank goodness. Then went into this next phase that was, I'm gonna go tell this story about our company and what we've done and how we're impacting the industry, which is great, but no one gives a shit. So then the next evolution was let's not talk about as much about us and me. Let's talk about the industry and what the winners of the industry are doing with some of our story mixed in, because that's important. And there's some lessons to draw from our story as well. My story, I feel like that was the latest evolution, which went quite well, but now the next evolution is here. Like, it's what I was saying. Like, listen, something has to change. So us just sitting around patting ourselves on the back, saying, oh, it's such a great place to work. It's their fault, not our fault. It's not working. That's not the solution. We, we all know it. We're not kidding anybody here. And like I was saying at dinner last night, it's like the industry is blaming this next generation and accusing this next generation of being entitled. But it's like I actually think the entitlement. And yeah, there are people that are entitled in that generation, but who raised that generation? Yeah, that's question number one. Who raised them? Okay, you. So shut up. And then two, what if, Mr. Employer, you are the entitled one because you think you deserve a workforce because you offer a paycheck, because you have benefits and a 401k that's out the window?

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yeah, I can get that anywhere.

[Aaron]

I can get that anywhere. And if that makes me entitled, I don't care, because that's just how the world works now.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And I'm gonna take that to my. I'm gonna use that to my advantage. So sue me. I mean, that's not. That's not my problem. That's not. That's your problem, and it is your problem. So we've gotta go somewhere else. There is a groundswell of contractors that you work with, that we work with, that. Everybody knows at this point now that is going in that direction. That is sitting down and saying, actually, maybe it's our responsibility, maybe it's our fault. Maybe we need to take some extreme ownership, look in the mirror and say, what do we need to do? How do I need to change as a leader to figure this one out? And so there's. That's happening, and it's going in that direction. How can I illustrate where the industry needs to go even further? By leveraging not just Those examples, the C.W. matthews of the world, but leveraging examples from the world because it's a big world. And to think that even as the United States, we have it all figured out is just silly. Like, how can we learn from Japanese manufacturing, which the manufacturing industry in the States has done for a long time did.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Very successfully. How can construction learn from Japanese manufacturing? How can construction learn from, you know, the workforce development efforts in Chile that we were talking about? How can they learn from the sophistication of. Of European contractors, which I think can. Can teach us a lot. How can they learn from just the grit and the pride that I've seen out in the Middle East? Or even the work life, you know, the work life mix. Like I was thinking yesterday about the story. There's. We drive out to the. Just middle of fucking nowhere. Like everything is middle of fucking. You're either in a big, beautiful city or just. Or the middle of nowhere or just nothing. And. And it's not like New Mexico nothing. It's like proper nothing. You better. You. You should have got fuel when you did, or else. Or else you're going to get stuck. So we're out in the middle of nowhere, and we're driving down this dirt road forever. Forever.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Forever.

[Aaron]

Well, it's paved for a while, so I'm like, all right, where are we going? And then pavement just drops off and it's just dirt for forever. We're with a guy that kind of speaks English, not really, and I don't speak a lick of Arabic. So it's. You just kind of sit there until the car stops. And when the car stops, you figure out what the Hell's going on. We pull up to this like yard area where they're fixing a bunch of excavators, cat excavators. And over a little ways away, there was a D11 sitting there. And I was like, that's a big dozer, man. What the hell's going on there? Like, what, what are they using that? I was like, oh, it's parked up. It's probably broken. Bummer. We're not going to see that. So again, I don't know what's going on, but we're told there's a blast. So we go over and there's probably 20 excavators all walked out of the cut for this blast. We wait for a while. The blast goes off. It just rips. And then all the excavators go back into this cut. I still don't really know what the hell's going on. But we get start to walk down into the cut. And then I see some D9s. I'm like, oh, nice dozer push. So we got, we got, we got some dozers going on. I'm walking further. There's an 11, there's another 11. There's another 11 and 11 and 11 and 11 like all over the place. All working in the same cut. They're slot dozing in quotes. It wasn't a perfect slot scenario. But they were there. They were there. They were pushing some material. They were building a road. It was like this like plateau almost. So it was huge, abrupt change in elevation. Then they needed to go from the top to the bottom. So they were essentially just pushing off the top, pushing the material off the edge and lowering the roadway down to about halfway, which would then be met by a bridge, the other halfway. Wild infrastructure. But I was watching it for a while. The dozers start going and they're going for maybe 20, 30 minutes. And I'm like just getting in my groove, taking pictures, this and that. And then they all start stopping. And I'm like, oh man, what now? What now? Yeah, we just waited for the blast. We drove all out here. I just got into the groove. It's a bunch of D11s. Like this doesn't get any cooler. And you see these guys and they take their. These prayer mats, these little carpets. They'll have them under their other arm. They get down of the.

[Chris]

Each.

[Aaron]

Each dozer and I walk up and I'm looking out over the cut and they all just set up in the corner of the cut. Their prayer mats just in the dirt.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And they're all praying there. And I was like, it's just. It was such a. It's a. It's a life moment. I won't ever forget that one was like, I will remember this the rest of my life. But just to see that. Something like that, that you'd never see that state.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yeah, that's bad for productivity.

[Aaron]

Not great for productivity. But like, right or wrong, indifferent. Like, that's. That's not my religion. But I can. I can appreciate that. Everybody's on the same operating system.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And they prioritize that. Like, that is just the priority. That is literally the sacred cow. You can't touch it. And everything revolves around that.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And it's like, that's interesting. It's not a perfect parallel, but that's at least what I was thinking about yesterday.

[Wally Adamcheck]

It's different is different. Different isn't bad. And we have a tendency here to think different is bad and to ridicule different. And I don't travel like you do, but you get into these places and you're like, wow, that's fascinating, the way they do that. And then you come home and you talk about it and people are like, ah, yeah, that'll never work here. That's stupid. Or that's a bad idea. Or, oh, the French, or whatever. And it's actually what they're doing is pretty cool. And it's sometimes tough to break through that well.

[Aaron]

But I've seen contractors do it here and it works really well.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And so I'm like, well, no, that's just not true. I've seen it done over here. So I don't exactly. I don't just travel the world. I travel over the States. And so I can tell you which contractor is doing what really well. There's a bunch that are doing things differently like that, and it's working out great for them.

[Chris]

And.

[Aaron]

And it's like, it does work here. And I'm not here to tell anybody how to build better. Like, everybody's moving dirt just fine. Everybody's pouring concrete, laying pipe. Like, they're good to go. I'm not here to tell them how to do that. Do I have an engineering degree? Yeah, I do have an engineering degree, but that's not my thing. My thing is just to say, hey, again, if you look at just money, we're doing great. But if you look at all these other indicators, there is something wrong.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Really, really wrong. And if it's not wrong at your company, it's wrong at an industry level. And your company ultimately is only as Good as the industry. So we have to do something differently. Like again, you just look at all these indicators. Health. If you were to health score the industry from a people standpoint, not in even companies. Like if you look at profitability, it's not fantastic.

[Wally Adamcheck]

No, it's just good.

[Aaron]

It's good.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

But for the risk and for the work, stupid. It's crazy compared to other industries. But that, like, I think that is my role, to just call attention to that and then use companies, individuals, not just across America but abroad to say, I'm not going to tell you how to do it. Here is a better way of doing it and here's how it's worked out for them.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And it's working out great. Yeah, that's it. I'm not the smart guy. I'm just, I'm just the one in the middle of it all and I'm just the one able to go see it. You can't. I can. And then even cooler, I can bring a camera, I can bring a video camera, I can bring videographers and we can go tell that story. So I'm not just there gathering all this information for, for my sake and then being Mr. Consultant. I could make a shitload of money doing that. I could kill it, kill it doing that. Especially rolling in my 30s now being Mr. Consultant. Oh, I can tell you how to make so much more money. But that doesn't change the industry.

[Chris]

Right.

[Aaron]

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[Wally Adamcheck]

Yeah, so there are these exemplars out there that we get to be with and one of my favorites is I will call it flex time. And you know, you mentioned that word to People, and they're like, you're a heretic. And it's like, look, I didn't say we don't have supervision on the job. I didn't say we're not going to get the job done. But why can't you have one crew start at 6am and one crew start at 9am and one guy, One guy's got morning childcare at his house and the other guy's got evening childcare. I mean, but this. No, that. You know, there's never. We've never done it that way. It doesn't work. And that's. It's total bullshit. Because it, because you see it and I see it work and there are folks making it work. And it's that. I think that's one of my frustrations and is that there's this blanket rejection of it. It can be better from a culture perspective and then ultimately a productivity perspective. Safety, mental health, all those, you know, things. It's, it's. But it's also why I wake up in the morning, because if we can make a few more dollar signs and a few more happy smiley faces, life will be okay. Life can be better.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Well, and again, has to be better. Like, that's everybody's, Everybody's missing the people that aren't changing, which again, aren't the people we interface with, which is awesome. We get to work with those that are kicking ass and that are asking those questions and how can I get better? And what do I need to do as an individual? And how can I grow? And it's awesome to be a part of, awesome to watch, et cetera. But anybody that's just riding the wave, and I don't blame them at all, if I was some rich guy, I'd been doing it the same way for 43 years, don't screw with it. I've got three more years to go.

[Chris]

Yeah. Why?

[Aaron]

And I'm making more money than ever. Like, dude, I'm not changing a thing. This is great. Yeah, fantastic. I, I understand that. But again, that's, that's the. Well, that's one of the problems of the fragmentation of the industry. Everybody's in this silo. No one's thinking big picture here. And it's like, listen, we have to get healthy as an industry or else, like, the economy is on our back.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And so if we don't figure this out, like, we're. The quality of our industry and the quality of our infrastructure is like the key indicator of, of how successful we are as a country going forward, I think that's true. We can't outrun infrastructure. Again, people in Silicon Valley will probably argue with me. I'm just like, you're just out to fucking lunch. It just doesn't. I think they're overstating the technology thing because they're like, there's this disconnect. Like, well, you still have to power it all. Like, you still have to produce the power. Even if everything is robots, where does the power come from? How do you manufacture the robots? Where's all the materials? Like, that's, that's where my mind goes. I'm not smart enough to tell you about robots, but I am smart enough to know that robot is made of metal. Metal comes from the ground. You can't transform it into something robot shape without a lot of energy and a lot of manufacturing and a lot of equipment and a lot of people. So we, we have to figure this out. Like, that's. It's just not an option. It's not an option.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I think we take infrastructure for granted.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

It's like, okay, my water runs, I flush, I turn the. Flip the switch, my. And heck, we take Internet for granted now.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I mean, there was a time, I don't know, a decade ago where you weren't 100% sure you were gonna get good coverage. Now it's. We take it for granted. And we take for granted how it gets there, too. Or we complain about how it gets there because there's a road being built or whatever. But. And it's in my way. But it's, it's an afterthought for sure.

[Aaron]

No, I. I get annoyed when I go to the store and I'm like, I want this kind of beef. And they don't have this kind of beef that I want.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

They have, you know, 17 other different types of beef, plenty of beef. Like, beef's not a problem without the beef. But they don't have the one I want.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And I'm like, damn it. You know, I go. I come shopping once. I'm going to have to come back in two days to go get the beef I want because I don't even want to settle for the other beef. And it's like, that is insane. We've spent hundreds of thousands of years as humans. Like, where are my calories going to come from?

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And if I don't figure that problem out, I die. I die. Everything around me dies. Big problem. I've got to figure it out today. If I don't figure it out today, we've got Fucking problems. Okay, cool. I figured it out today, I've got to figure it out tomorrow. On and on and on and on, and here I am, 2025. Like, damn it. They don't have the right kind of beef. Like, yeah, Such an inconvenience.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Amazon can deliver it tomorrow or it can be there at 4:00am yeah. Like, oh, my God. Like, I can't even believe that's an option.

[Aaron]

But. But I have to, I have to pick the, like, other option. I'm like, Amazon, I don't need this delivered at 4:00am Like, 11:00am is fine.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yeah, exactly.

[Aaron]

I don't, I don't need somebody who's probably underpaid, you know, not seeing their family in the morning, getting up really early to drop this off at 4am when I'm not even using it until tomorrow. Yeah, tomorrow, whatever.

[Wally Adamcheck]

But, man, I can get it now or it's.

[Aaron]

I don't need that.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Fuck it. I'm not gonna buy it. I can't get it to tomorrow. Yeah, I don't need it till next week. But I want it. It's. Yeah, it's an interesting society we enjoy. And it, there's, it's, it's got some challenges.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

But that, I think that that disconnect, like, who, whose responsibility is it to ground people and bring them back to this reality that we're humans and need basic. We have. We have basic needs. It's like, well, no one else is. So if we're not going to do it, or at least if we're not going to try, like, we can at least try, maybe we don't succeed.

[Chris]

Okay.

[Aaron]

That's an option. That's very possible. But, like, well, we're just going to roll over or we're just going to even worse complain about it. Oh, people just don't. People just don't appreciate road construction or.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Not be able to flush the toilet next week.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They don't. Yes, you're right. So are you. Is there anything you could do about that? I don't know. Maybe like, let's talk about it. And I'm not like, I'm not criticizing individuals within the industry. I'm not criticizing companies. I'm criticizing this bigger pattern.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

That doesn't have anybody's name next to it, but is terrifying. Is clearly headed in the wrong direction and requires some sort of correction. And if there isn't a correction, there's a big unknown.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

At the end of that rainbow.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I remember being in a conversation a while back, and it was in A union environment. But that's irrelevant. But what happened? And the contractor said, well, the unions need to figure this out.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And you know. You know what the union is saying? Well, the contractor needs. It's always a they thing.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

It's rarely a we thing, and it's certainly never a me thing. You know? So it's. When are they going to fix it? What's the government going to do? Well, we are they. And we all have a piece of it. I think.

[Aaron]

That's what I think. I think we all have a responsibility here. But. But union. Non union. Like, you see that.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Like, you see that everywhere.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

But you see. You see that in that scenario. You see it. Just non union versus union contractors. You see it. That inspector sucks. You see it?

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

You know, a prime will be bitching about their subs. It's like, well, hey, hey, hey, hey. Whose name's on this project? Like, that's. That's one that's crazy. Another one that's crazy is people within the same company. Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

The dirt and the paving guys hate each other.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Dirt and paving guys, or especially equipment guys hate the guys using the machines. It's like, wait, who the. Who works for who here? Like. Like, this isn't an equipment company. Okay.

[Chris]

This is.

[Aaron]

This is a earth moving company. So you got to use the machine. We might break money. Yeah.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We're missing the point. Like, that stuff. But even. Even contractors after. Like contractors that hate each other in the same market, it's like, that's a losing proposition.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

You're. You're the. You're. You lose first, you lose. Like, we're fooled into thinking the those that we're bidding against are the enemy. It's like, no, no, no, no, no.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

There's a lot of other stuff going on here that we've got to focus on, but that's what all those bigger forces want. They want everybody focused on the guy next door because then they can. Great. Their heads are down here. They're divided down. Yeah. It's divide and conquer. It's like. And it's not. It's not malicious like we were talking about dinner. It's these bigger companies exploiting that to make more money to increase shareholder value. Good for them. Like that's their prerogative. But it's run a little wild.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yeah. The system is broken for sure. And we talk about procurement and all that, and you go, well, I can't fix procurement. Well, I can talk about it. I can be Active in my state, of my trade association. I can vote. I mean, we can have a fingerprint on some of those things.

[Aaron]

Again, we have to have that mentality or just roll over. And it's not like the money side of things. Why things haven't changed is because it's not been apparent on the financial side of things, because there has been trillions of dollars in government spending, more government spending than ever before in human history in the past five years that we forget about somehow. But the labor market is saying, listen, this doesn't work for us anymore.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah.

[Aaron]

The market is saying, something's off. It's just not backlogs, it's the labor market right now. I don't want to work 80 hours a week for 19 an hour. I'm sorry, that just to me, doesn't do it.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yeah, I was, I commented on a LinkedIn post the other day and the boss was bragging about this young man working 60, 80 hours a week to make something of himself, et cetera, hardware. I'm like, and I'm like, I admire that. I mean, I admire hard work. But why do we have to laud 68 hours a week, 80 hours a week? I mean, is there a different model? And you and I know there's a different model now. Look, Summer, we're going to go. I get it. But just this systemic hustle culture. I'm a fan. You hustle? I hustle. But yeah, the labor market, the kids are looking and going, this is fucking stupid.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And I don't blame them.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I don't either.

[Aaron]

But. But like, I'm all four hours too. Like, especially when I was in the industry and now, I mean, I work plenty, but I was like, give me as many 60, 70, 80 plus hours a week. Let's go. Yeah, I was stacking it up.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

I was early 20s, single. I was in the middle of nowhere, single. Nothing better to do. So let's just stack it up. Let's just work, man. Yeah, but then I go get married and have two kids. It doesn't work for me anymore. Because if you're working 80 hours in.

[Wally Adamcheck]

A week, you have no other life.

[Aaron]

There's nothing else going on. There's something somewhere breaking. I'm either if I'm the perfect family man, I'm probably not healthy. I'm probably not sleeping. If I'm sleeping, I'm not seeing my family. They're just. There's only so many hours in any day and you're working that many hours. That's not getting to and from work.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Oftentimes it's one to two hours additional.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Easy, easy. Particularly if you're in an urban environment.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

So you're doing 12 hours a day plus two more. 14 hours. There's 24 hours, another hour, you know, coming and going, eat. So you have nine hours. Humans are supposed to per doctor sleep seven to eight hours. So eating, you know, and it's like.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yeah, where does it go? But you don't understand. You don't know.

[Aaron]

I don't understand.

[Wally Adamcheck]

You just don't understand the industry.

[Aaron]

I get it.

[Wally Adamcheck]

You're young, you don't understand.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And I'm not like, again, I'm not criticizing individuals because it's, it's.

[Wally Adamcheck]

No, it's a system.

[Aaron]

It's a system. Yes. It's a systemic issue that, that is, that is causing contractors to have to do this. But it's, it's also not been good because I think over time has essentially like subsidized wages in a way.

[Wally Adamcheck]

It's a drug, It's a, it's a good one.

[Aaron]

It's a, it's not a good one, but.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Well, I mean it feels really good. Like most. And then that movie usually ends pretty bad.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And that, that's what, that's what is really concerning with overtime too is is that paired with bad spending habits means you now have to work that many hours and you become a slave to it. And I've seen so many guys go down this path.

[Wally Adamcheck]

No, they're hostages.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

If not slaves.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And it either burns them out, they leave, they just become bitter. I don't blame them. Their family dissolves.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

They become alcoholics to cope. They have to cope somehow. Like I've seen all of those things happen. Like, and it's, that's not a one off thing.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Not to laugh, but years back I was talking to an industry leader and we were talking about. He goes, oh, Wally, that's the four Ds. And I'm like, what's that? He goes, oh, that's drugs, divorce, depression and death.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And we chuckle about it, but you can't. With the suicide rate where it is now and mental health where it is.

[Aaron]

Oh, and drug overdose.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

So drugs, divorce, depression and death. And you go, if that's the outcome of a quote, successful career, is it really successful? And you go, well, that's not everybody. There's successful people. Well, yes, there are. What are they doing different? Well, they got their faith, they got their health, they've got some. And maybe they are working 7080 hours, but at some point it doesn't work. Oh, no. I'm on my third wife. Oh, okay.

[Chris]

Right.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I didn't figure it out for 30 years, but now I figured it out. Right. Look, there are successful companies, successful people, you know, we're kind of pointing on the, quote, bad side, but the system would give us more bad examples than good examples.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And that's why I wake up in the morning, because I know it can be better.

[Aaron]

No, again, it has to be better. And that's my. It can be and it has to be and that's my genuine belief. But yeah. You even look at other industries like, I mean, even healthcare, they've had to throttle hours from doctors because it was out of control.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Well, help me with airlines. It's a badge of honor to do a 24 hour shift at the hospital. Yeah, I don't want that guy sticking me with anything.

[Aaron]

No. But they had to clean that up. And it's still in progress. So airlines, Airlines are a big one. Trucking, you can only drive so many hours. Now that's restricted.

[Wally Adamcheck]

European construction companies are tracking that in some cases, particularly if they're anything related to infrastructure. Right. Do you really want to be the contractor with a guy on the rail line who's at 55 hours? And the answer is, hell no. Because you just, that's a causal factor. Yeah, we talk about. No, I'm sorry, we don't talk about fatigue in the United States. And we get into the 70th 80 hour and every piece of research says that you're less productive. Yeah, I mean that research has been done. You know, you're not productive. And we just kind of. Why can't you go to the crew? You've seen this, I've seen this. Say, hey fellas, how do we do this in 50 hours this week? And they do it.

[Aaron]

And they, they, they do it. They do it. Most of the time. I get it. Like it is, there is just production and you can only get so much production, like in mining, so many trucks equals so much.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Or it's a math problem.

[Aaron]

So much. It is a math problem at the end of the day. But they, they restrict it. Like they, not in the States. The schedules are pretty shitty in the States, but like Australia, for example, I think it's, I, I, the only time I've been like, oh, I would totally do this, like legitimately do this is fly and fly out. Because you're working one week at a time.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

So you're on 12 hours. 12 hours. 12 hours. 12 Hours. For seven days and then you have seven days off.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

So you're working plus time off. So you're working less than half the year. You have a much better quality of life with a schedule like that. You're seeing your family far more on a schedule like that than if you're working 60 hours a week.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Traditional schedule.

[Wally Adamcheck]

So what? All right. We do steel erection in the US we travel, we go build stadiums. Stadium's got to be built.

[Chris]

Yep.

[Aaron]

Game day is game day one right down the street. Yeah, I'm really upset about. But yes, because.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Why are you upset about it?

[Aaron]

Oh, billions of dollars of taxpayer money.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Okay.

[Aaron]

Right. To the. You know, we need.

[Wally Adamcheck]

To the team owner.

[Aaron]

To the team owner. We need to stimulate the economy.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Because Nashville is just a complete.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Anyway.

[Wally Adamcheck]

But if. So the steel director says, okay, every two weeks you're gonna go home and see your family. No, no, I'm gonna pay you. I'm gonna pay for it. I'm not gonna give you the money. Or they. Yeah, I'm not going to give you 3,000 bucks allowance. I'm going to pay for you to go. Because you've given 3,000. They'll pocket the 3,000.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Bring your family here. I mean, that's a tangible example. Like, this shit works. Like, there are solutions out there and it's. I don't know what your solution is. I don't know what that's. But there's a solution. Meaning I don't know what Aaron's or Wally's or Randy's or Jason's, but every single one of us, from a company and a personal perspective, there is a solution out there. But we ignore it.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Or like. And again, you don't have to do the solution, but then just don't complain about, like, whatever result you're getting or the result of what you're doing.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I have turnover, high turnover.

[Aaron]

Because my people work. And if you don't like your turnover, you've got to do something different or you don't have to do something different and shut up. But just. Exactly. Just, just, just be fine with the turnover. And if you want to run your business to 50% turnover, by all means. I see it done a lot. Or, or like a, I mean, like, like a, a restaurant industry, for example. Like, it's all built on turnover. So you, you can do it. But yeah. Just don't complain about it. Or, or, you know, of my. There's a conversation that has pissed me off more and more and more every year is the women in Construction thing. Because it's just talking out of both sides of. Of. Of the mouth. It's like listening. We need more women in construction. It's like, yeah, sure, I'm on board with that. I don't know many people that would be like, nah, we don't need women. That's stupid. At this point, I think everybody's on board with that. But we're also not gonna change anything. We just want them to conform with our model. What are you fucking talking about? Like, that doesn't work. It doesn't work. They are, statistically speaking, by a wide margin, probably the caretaker of the household.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

So if they have two kids. Three kids. Have you looked at the cost of daycare recently? So, you know, three kids, that's, I don't know, maybe 30, $40,000 a year.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

In just daycare costs so that you can have an additional worker. And she's making 70,000, you know, it's just like. So to take home, you know, after that, you know, 10 grand extra and not see her children, have somebody else raise the kid. Like, but then daycare is only open between 8 and 4.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Oh, and we start at 6am you started.

[Aaron]

You start at 6. And don't finish until, like, just explain to me how it maths. Or explain to me what you're doing to adopt your business model to accommodate that. Or just don't say it like. And I think that's fine too. I think it's very realistic to say, listen, this industry would be in a world of hurt without women. Most women in the construction industry are in the office because it's a more consistent environment, because it's fixed hours, it's a fixed location, it's an easier schedule or more simple schedule. Less variables.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Well, because women can't do hard work either.

[Aaron]

Well, but it's. It's like. It's like even you pull that from the. From the whole equation, like, the whole industry would unravel. Because, again, if you go into offices, I would say a majority of construction offices are women, primarily women. They're making, you know, they're doing dispatch, they're making payroll, they're making sure permits are squared away. They're running companies. A lot of times, they're doing legal, they're doing accounting, they're doing.

[Wally Adamcheck]

They're there.

[Aaron]

All the functions of that construction company oftentimes. But the office, it's easier, quote, and I'm saying this like in heavy quotes. It's easier to do that and run a family than it is to work 70 hours a week with variable hours in variable locations and variable conditions and manage a family.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And somehow that's not realistic to say.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Hey, you're single. You don't understand.

[Aaron]

I don't understand. You clearly don't understand. White male. I don't understand. And I'm not saying I do. I'm just asking the question, like, does that make sense? I don't know. And I've talked to a lot of women about this, and they're like, yep, yep, yeah, okay. Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

There was some research earlier in the year. Gallup always does their stuff. And you know the exact thing. It's, it's. This continues to be an issue and all we do is talk about it. But again, you go overseas, you look at different childcare models, different demographics, People do it differently, and somehow they, And I'm not lauding overseas. I mean, look, no place is perfect, but people are figuring this shit out.

[Aaron]

But you could, you could even go to nursing. In the States, a lot of nursing is three 12 hour shifts, three days in a row.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Law enforcement.

[Aaron]

Yeah. So you're, you're, you're. But you've got four days off. So you're working 12 hour shifts, but for three days, then you've got four days off.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

That again, is a lot more sustainable from a being a parent perspective.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

As opposed to six 12s.

[Aaron]

As opposed to six 12s.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Aaron]

And maybe, maybe I'm, I'm not being fair, but I don't, I don't think I'm being unfair. And I, I just don't, I don't think so.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I mean, my kids are 23 and 26, and they're successful and they're both college graduates, by the way. But, you know, that was their choice. They could do whatever the hell they wanted to do. But I'm so, I'm not in touch with a generation, but I'm in touch with a subset of the generation. And they're like, and they work hard, but they want a life too. And I'm like, yes, you should be able to have one, but you're gonna make trade offs. Like, if you want to go to Scotland for a week, that's gonna cost you money and all those things. And, you know, I guess we're just pragmatic and realistic and. But I mean, this country still has opportunity, but the demographics and economics have changed. This isn't 1955 dramatically. And I find myself saying this a lot. I'm like, well, welcome to 2025. And sometimes it's encouraging. Like hey, this is a good. In some kind. It's laced with sarcasm because, yes, women do want to work, but the system won't let them. And I'm like, well, welcome to 2025. We, you know, there's an opportunity here. We need to figure this out. Well, you know, it's an opportunity. Whether it gets figured out or not remains to be seen.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but then you have the other side of that, the dramatically declining birth rate. But let's ignore that.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Let's just be Japan, you know, a few decades from now.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And, yeah, deep, all of this is a math problem, I hate to say it. And the math is not compelling.

[Aaron]

That's what I'm saying. That's. I'm just. I'm. Again, I'm. I'm not even seeking this shit out. I'm just the guy in the middle, and you're in the middle. And a lot of. A lot of cases, too. Just looking around like, is anybody seeing this? Like, it's. It's like right in. Right in front of you. But. But you do have to be removed from it. Because. Because I'm not in the fight every day.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Well, if you're in the insanity, you can't see the insanity.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Because that's just how it is. Once you step out, it's like addiction. Once you step out, you look and you go, holy shit. That was insane.

[Aaron]

Well, and I'm saying this as, like, the biggest fan of this industry. That's why I'm so passionate about it, because I want this. Like, why aren't people flocking to this industry that sucks. Like, why do we have our tail between our legs right now? We shouldn't. We have everything people. People should want. We have the camaraderie, the hard work, the satisfaction, the purpose.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Making a. Making a living.

[Aaron]

You should be able to make a great living, you know, have the American dream. Like, we're one of the only places in the entire United States where the American dream, I think, is. Is pretty achievable.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Very, very, very possible. Very possible. But it's not happening. And, and that's what pisses me off, that. That disconnect. Because I'm, I'm. I'm. I'm in. I'm. I'm just so in love with this world.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And this total disconnect drives me nuts. And it drives me nuts that these younger people are going into these other industries that suck. Like, a lot of them suck. And, And, And, And I'm. I'm tired of sitting around just acting like, no no, every other job is a great job too. No, there's a lot of other industries that just take. They're just a parasite.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

They don't create value. They just take and they take and they take. And that's why we're here right now. That's why we have the biggest division between classes that we've had in a modern time in the entire United States. We have all of these very wealthy people and then everybody else because they take and they take and they take. I want to help restore that middle class. The people that give, they, they make money, they build a living by creating value.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Not just by taking. And, and, and what. What better way to create value than by building and supporting your community? Like that's as human as it gets.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Well, there's, there's, you know, it's one of the few places where is that tangible. My, my dad. The Verrazano Narrows Bridge, right, Connects what, Staten island to Brooklyn big time, right. I drive over that still. He was a steel guy and what, the first dad built this.

[Chris]

Yeah, right.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And when the kids were young, your grandfather built this. What is it? 70 years later, I'm still saying dad built this. I mean there's, there's very few places in the world where you can. Professions in the world where you can have that satisfaction.

[Aaron]

Yeah, it's.

[Wally Adamcheck]

It's singular, it's unique, and it's pretty freakin cool.

[Aaron]

It's the cool. It's the coolest. That's why, I mean, it was like a drug for me when I first got into it. Like again, I talk about my background because it's like I shouldn't be here. I should have gone into law. I should have gone into big business, finance, medicine, whatever it was. Because that's where I was around, right? People that made a shitload of money and all the other. In all the industries, you'd think they'd be making a lot of money. And I fall into construction, but I'm like, this is the coolest shit in the world, man. And I would drive by and no one, you don't get it unless you've built something or even you. You probably like, what did you fly up? It was Apaches, Cobras. Cobras.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Similar.

[Aaron]

Like your feeling towards a Cobra helicopter flying over is a lot different than mine. I'm like, oh, that's pretty fucking cool. You're. It's visceral, it's visceral. You have this emotional connection to that, that machine, that inanimate object. It's like I drove by These stupid catch basins. And this sounds dumb to anybody that's built anything probably, but it was like me as an 18 year old, I was so stoked. I still drive by those stupid catch basins when I. Every time I'm in Phoenix, every time I drive by him. Because that's just. It's just on my way to weight of things. And I look at them, I'm like, I've been in those stupid catch basins, stripping forms in the middle of summer.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And it sucked. But I loved it.

[Aaron]

And it sucked. But I loved it. And I don't know why, but I'm just so connected to this little piece of infrastructure, this little part of the world that I've helped create.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And again that, like there's so many people missing that. Which is why I think there's a lot of misery in the world is the people are just disconnected from the real world. That's why people want to go into nature. That's why one of people have. They want to garden in their backyard. They want to. They want to do these things to reconnect them to the world around them. Yeah, because we're human. We didn't grow up on. We did. We didn't develop on computers and in the AI, whatever.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

We're human beings. We eat shit, sleep, like breathe in nature. In nature. Outside, in the real built environment. And to have that be your day to day. I'm not like, I don't want to overly romanticize it because it sucks. It's miserable. A lot of days. It's hard work. But you cannot replace that feeling.

[Wally Adamcheck]

No, there's the camaraderie, the team, the connection. Just that, I mean, you, you know, you think about championship, football, team championship, anything last, you know, whatever. Championship. And heck, you can win a championship every day on a project.

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Like we got production. I'm not even talking about the end of the year when you get the AGC award for whatever. I'm talking about, like, we nailed production. We overcame this gnarly fill in the blank because on a job site there's always going to be a gnarly fill in the blank. Because that's the nature of it. The unforeseen conditions. Oh, we had this stuff that didn't get located. Whatever it. There's a chance to win every single day. But almost we do ourselves a disservice because we kind of take it for granted. Like that's just what we do. Like, yes, that's what you do. But when the receiver catches the ball over his shoulder for an 82 yard thing. We applaud him because he made a great play.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

We have guys out there making great plays and we say, oh, okay, we don't applaud him.

[Aaron]

But, but, but I think it's because if I'm a receiver that catches the ball, I know if it was a great play or not based on where I am in the field. Oh, I went. There's the pylons.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Because the scores. Right. Touchdown metrics.

[Aaron]

I hear it. Immediate feedback. Yeah. I, I did it oftentimes in construction. There just. There isn't even the information. I mean I've been on a lot of crews. It's like I don't know what production even is.

[Wally Adamcheck]

But at some level that information does exist.

[Aaron]

It exists somewhere.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And that's a lack of feedback, a lack of coaching, a lack of recognition to come down and go, hey, I know we're 10 days into a hundred day project, but you just saved us 20 days. Yeah. Which means we may get out of here 10 days early. And it's that level of communication which differentiates the great ones versus the not great ones. And to a Wally, we've never done it that way. There's a million reasons. We have never done it that way before. But there's like six reasons why we can and should do it that way now. And you're right. I mean what you said about there's no feedback, but there can be. There should be. That's an opportunity.

[Aaron]

It's a huge opportunity that we're talking about right now internally. But I like the times that I've seen people most stoked on a project are oftentimes like they broke their load count record.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Or they put one more stick in the ground today than ever before.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And they're. Or they just nailed it. Yeah. We needed 10 sticks in today. We hit 10 right by 4 o'. Clock.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And that is just, just walk off the field feeling like a million bucks. You can just see it. Everybody carries themselves differently.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Right.

[Aaron]

It's just a different, a whole different attitude vibe.

[Wally Adamcheck]

As opposed to see you tomorrow at 6am yeah.

[Aaron]

We'll do it again. It's like, whoa, what the fuck?

[Wally Adamcheck]

Why did I bust my ass? I thought we were busting my ass. Yeah. What? Okay. You said I had to get 10, I got 10. What? What? Yes. It's one of the. There's. This is a zero cost opportunity.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but, but it's not even. You didn't even say 10. I don't even know. 10 is the number.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Right? Exactly.

[Aaron]

I'M I am a pipe player.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

I lay pipe.

[Wally Adamcheck]

It's Groundhog Day tomorrow.

[Aaron]

I will show up, I will lay pipe. I don't really know why. I don't know what we need to do when. And I'm not saying that like the pipeline is dumb. Like.

[Wally Adamcheck]

No, no, no, no.

[Aaron]

I have more respect for pipeliners than anybody. Yeah, they just. They just don't have that information. Yeah, it's just not at the front line yet. The front line controls 80% of the costs of any construction operation. Yeah, 80% is at the front line. The operators, the people in the ditches, the guys on the back, the pavers, whoever. 80%.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yeah. And the part B of this is when. Now you share that information. Now they can play the game in a better way, which is why, you know, hcss, whatever other softwares. And I can look and go, I had a good day, I had a bad day.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Holy. Now I can communicate that and I can send a new guy or an old guy walking away like you said, with a. With a spring in their step.

[Chris]

That.

[Wally Adamcheck]

They didn't have previously.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Honey, what'd you do today? Man? We busted our ass and, man, we had a great day. As opposed to, I don't know. I put pipe in the ground there.

[Aaron]

You know Petticoat Schmidt? Yeah, Ryan Schmidt, he. They have a full time industrial engineer and they film their pipeline operations.

[Chris]

Yes.

[Aaron]

And they have game film.

[Chris]

Yes.

[Aaron]

They'll analyze, they'll do. They'll do production studies within their company. Not to be some overlord, but to give each crew information on how they're performing so that they can perform better. It's like game film. Whoa. Absolutely not groundbreaking, but that's the first time I've ever heard it applied consistently in a construction setting.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Well, Marcus Sheridan talks about recording sales calls. It's the exact same thing. What's your game film? Every great athlete looks at game film. Every construction company I know has a drone. Launch it for the first hour, have it film your first hour. That's it. I don't even care about hours two through seven, but how quickly do you get going? You will vomit when you watch that video.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but that's where what you teach comes into play. Leadership. Because you can't then just go to the crew, be like, what the shit guys doing?

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

It took you 43 minutes to get, to get moving. It was 7:43.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

This is unacceptable.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Like, fix it or else.

[Aaron]

Yeah, fix it like we need it. Yeah. Tomorrow 7:15. Like there has to be.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yeah, there's there's education, training.

[Aaron]

Yeah. There's a. There's a lot that has to come with it. And there's. There's an intent, too. I think this is what people underestimate is how abused people are. I've recognized this as an employer. I can at least speak as an employer. If nothing else, we've had, you know, safely over at this point. 150 people come through here. So decent data set. By no means all that comprehensive, but good enough. Most everybody, unless they're real young, is abused in some way by former employers. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's no different to, like, relationships. Like, you have to understand where somebody's been in previous relationships to understand where they are today and where we're going because, or, or childhood, you know, is. Is even more relatable for everybody. Like, understanding how somebody grew up and what they had to deal with coming up is very helpful to understanding them as an individual. It explains behaviors a lot. It very much does really, really nicely. But to assume somebody is just gonna come in and trust you. Day one, you are out to lunch and I tell people, come in here, I'm like, don't trust what I'm saying. Like, if I were you, I'd be like, this guy is full of shit. Yeah, that is exactly what I'd be thinking. So don't take my word for any of this. Just come into the business, have an open mind, experience it for a long period of time, and hopefully you'll understand this is not nonsense. Yeah, it's just not.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

But the last guy I worked for told me it was, and then he treated me like, so.

[Aaron]

Exactly. And I. How can I blame them?

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

It's like they've been over by seven previous employers.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

So maybe it's their problem and I've got to find that out too. Maybe they are a bad egg, for lack of better term, but maybe they've just been abused seven times over. I need to have that, that level of patience. But if I'm able to turn this person and to get them to trust me by first giving them my trust.

[Chris]

Exactly right.

[Aaron]

Consistently, on a consistent basis. If I can turn that person into a trusting individual within this company, they are going to be so trusting. Because once they, once they get it, once they see it, they're in. It's like, holy shit, I don't want. I don't want to ever go back ever, ever, ever again. That's my favorite. When people, when people have that moment not just within this company, but any Company, I've seen it all over the place. I finally get somebody into a great company and they finally get it. It's like, yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's it right there.

[Wally Adamcheck]

So I ask leaders, I'll say, what's going to cost somebody to take the bullet for you? What does that look like? Means it's Friday afternoon, there's a tropical storm coming in. And they make the decision to walk the job site one more time to check erosion control. Like I could just check out and go home, or I can go, you know something I give a shit, I'm gonna take that extra walk. Right. Cause now they've bought in, they're leaned in and maybe it took them 20 minutes and heck, maybe they actually leave 15 minutes later. Quote, that's what winning looks like. I think.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

I've realized too, in business, and I think a, I think the biggest part of leadership. This might sound bad. I don't know how to explain it better, but it's, it's like parenting.

[Wally Adamcheck]

It's not a bad analogy.

[Aaron]

You have to parent people because they haven't been parented by their parents, by the education system, by previous employers. Like I'm just realizing, and I get frustrated, I really do, with some young people at the company just because it's like, this should be fucking obvious. And you're just, you are just missing it, man. But I have to, I was thinking about this the other day. It's like I've got to step back and realize, listen, I didn't know what was going on when I was 22, 23, either.

[Wally Adamcheck]

We were all knuckleheads.

[Aaron]

We were knuckleheads. And I was way at 23, I was way ahead of 23 year olds.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Just. And not by my doing, by my, by my situation in life. I was just dealt a better hand than most people, so. And I did have people that were in a lot of ways either helpful but hard on me, coming up to teach me some of these basics. And when once you get them, once you get your ass chewed about something, you're like, I do not need to relearn this. I'm good to go. And at least for me, it's like, check. Just. People haven't had that. And as an employer, again, you can sit here and bitch about it all day or you can say, man, we've gotta, we have got to parent these people and teach them these basics about life and about being a adult human being.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah.

[Aaron]

Which will make them better, which will make us better, which makes Everything better.

[Wally Adamcheck]

So, yeah, demographic again, demographics. Right. So three generations ago, nearly 40% of kids had a high school, you know, had a high school job. Now it's under like 18%. Right. So, you know, do I know how to show up on time and say please and thank you?

[Chris]

Correct.

[Wally Adamcheck]

You know, you can play with the everybody gets a trophy thing right there. There's good science behind that. Like increased self esteem in people is a good thing.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

So, okay, what does that look like when I come out on the job site? It goes back to what we just said about let's give somebody a pat on the back. You got 10 sticks in today.

[Chris]

Right.

[Wally Adamcheck]

There's nothing wrong with that. And oh, by the way, nowhere in here of anything have we said, did we say lower the standard. Like, you still have to put work in place safely, profitably, etc. It's just harder than it's ever been. But if we talk about, you know, creating a place where people want to be in quote, culture and all that, I think it gets a little easier to put the work in place. But the standard is the standard. And all too often people are saying, when we're saying, here, here's what. Great, you're just being soft. No, I'm just not being an asshole.

[Aaron]

Well, but this is where like I'm also understanding of the previous generation because they were probably raised by assholes.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yes, it's what they know.

[Aaron]

It's just what they know. But it's like, hey, one, child labor isn't a thing anymore. And I agree, it is unfortunate. We need to have more kids working. Yeah, great. But it's against the law now. Yeah, can't do it. Especially on a job site. It's quote unquote, a dangerous world.

[Wally Adamcheck]

You mean when I was a helper, when I was 13, that's. Yeah, yeah.

[Aaron]

Unless I'm the owner's son. Not happening anymore. To. I get it. You got wrenches thrown at you. You again. Throwing wrenches at people is illegal nowadays. Yeah, it will.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And it's probably a bad idea.

[Aaron]

It's a bad idea. It's. There will be a lawsuit. It's going to be a pickle. It's just not in anybody's best interest. Did you like having wrenches thrown at you? Probably not. Like, but there's a, there's a, there's almost a re education process in that as well. And, and so there's, there's, there's this re education process with everybody.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Which is amazing. But that's where we've really started to recognize too. Like the construction industry says they do training but they don't. They'll do trench safety maybe once a year.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yeah, they'll check. They do check offs.

[Aaron]

Check offs. But the, the degree of training compared to like an industry that's as dangerous as this is non existent. You look at how much does the military train all the time, how much do the airlines train all the time? Like how much does manufacturing invest in training and development? Sometimes like in Europe before I go work at Liebherr in the factory. I'm in their program for two to three years before I'm ever working on the factory floor.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yeah, I think it's two to three hours in America.

[Aaron]

Maybe it's here's the address.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And the time you should be there. That's kind of it. And again it's not a criticism of individuals, it's not a criticism of companies, it's a criticism of the system. And I get why they don't because they have to go produce at a certain rate to make things pencil to make the world go round. I understand that reality. But there's a lot of training and re education that's required to I think get to that next level. And the question is, how do we do that?

[Wally Adamcheck]

Well, it comes back to your current premise of productivity sucks, but we're making money. Well, what if I increase productivity and we, I don't know, pick, pick whatever you want to do. Double your bottom line, increase it by two, you make more. Okay, now I can share that a little bit more. I can invest it a little bit more and it becomes a virtuous positive cycle. Is it, is it linear? No. Is it guaranteed? It's highly likely that when you invest in those things there's cause and effect here, there's laws of nature here that if I invest in, in our relationship, I invest in you. You think that I actually give a shit about you. You might give a shit about what we're doing. And that 10th stick becomes possible when previously we could never do eight. Well and it's not about working harder. Like we can't work any harder.

[Aaron]

No, it's not.

[Wally Adamcheck]

It's not about throwing out. It's about starting at 7:15 instead of 7:43. Right. It's about okay, what do we need to get started?

[Aaron]

Yeah, we. And this is where we've really begun to focus from a build improve standpoint on the safety meeting every day.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Which is a very under. I think that's the most important 15 minutes of the day. I think that crew Leader, whoever they are, is the most influential person in construction. And I think it's the most. Well, it's the most important, most underutilized few minutes of the day. Yeah. Which is a huge bummer. But it's because people don't have the tools to utilize it correctly. Which is why we've developed this whole software product. Thousands of training videos do that.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

But that's, that's the whole premise now is like just, just utilize that time. You don't actually have to slow down and train for a 40 hour block. You just have to teach your people, your frontline leaders, how to facilitate a legitimate conversation.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And offer what they, what they know to extract what other people know to help those that don't know to ask the right questions and explain and admit they don't know something so that you can help them so you know where everybody's at. Like just that alone, if nothing else creates just better relationships.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And it's like you go to safety and you start to talk about, you know, stop work authority. That's the one I've been picking on recently. Because it's like, I think in most scenarios that's just fucking insane because I've been in that situation and if I don't have the relationship, if I don't have a good relationship, a strong relationship, feel like I'm cared for by those around me. There is no way. One, I don't know when to stop work because I don't have the information. I don't have the training to even know something's unsafe or not. But two, even if I do, I'm probably not going to stop work if I don't have relationships with those around me.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And if I'm just showing up to work and we're just talking about slips, trips and falls. Wear your hard hat. Hey, check, check, check. You have your seatbelt on yesterday? Just. Can you wear your fucking seatbelt? Yeah, you know, this and that. All right, let's go to work. What are we doing today? Why are we doing it? Who's doing what? Yeah, what do we need to be thinking about? Is the, are the conditions going to change at all? There's so much there that can be talked about that cannot just get information out but, but build the relationship of that crew. That's why I really don't like I'm. Again, I'm not, I don't run a construction company. But this is why I don't like when companies constantly move people around the different crews nonstop because it's like you're, you're ruining something that's really special. That is this crew dynamic.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

That when you get right, is spectacular. Is one of the most special things I've ever been involved in in a professional setting.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Is a well oiled crew. That is phenomenal. But to build that, you have to build relationships.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Well, when we would deploy. You would deploy in combat crews.

[Chris]

Yes.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Right. I knew who was going to be in the front seat, who was going to be in the back seat. And yeah, we would rotate from time to time. But on game day we knew exactly how we're going to do it. We see it in sports, we see it in the military, and, and then we, we just jumble people here. I agree that the daily huddle, you know, whatever. We want to call that startup. One of the most underutilized pieces of time with one of the most underserved human beings. I'll call them the crew leader because. Why are they a crew leader? Because they were a hell of an operator and we threw them some keys and said, you're running the work. Stereotypical but absolutely true.

[Chris]

Yeah, right.

[Aaron]

The guy before retired and.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Or just didn't show and now they're like, oh, okay. And God bless them, they pull it off. But there's a lot of sweat and tears and along the way and yeah, the tools that you're talking about, I mean the platform, the buildwit was it learn, inform, educate, improve, improve.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I mean the learning platform is, look, you know it. There's nothing like it on the face of the earth.

[Aaron]

No. And it's not, it's not a magic bullet.

[Wally Adamcheck]

No. But it's part of the, it's, it's part of the ammunition and it's, it's, it's underutilized. And I talk to contractors and I'm a fan of it. I mean, I'll be the first one to say it. I think it's got a place. Well, it doesn't train people. No, you're supposed to freaking train people. It helps you train people. And you know, there's no silver bullet out there. It's part of a systemic change, to use that word, systems again and again. People are either figuring it out, they're not. But it's, it's amazing.

[Aaron]

And it's like, okay, Chris, good for you. You came out of the womb knowing how to start a fucking quickie saw. Like, congratulations. Well, I didn't. Yeah, I've never seen one of these in my life. I don't know how to use it. Yeah, like again that was 18 year old Aaron. Like, I didn't know. I don't even know how to start that saw, man. I didn't. I didn't know. Oh, there's that little bubble that you have to press a bunch to get fuel into it. And then it, it takes a certain kind of fuel because you have to, you have to mix it. So it only comes from this can. Don't use this can. And, and then here's how to change the blade, you know, here's how to know when to change the blade. Here's. Here's how to know what, what blade to use. You want to use this blade for this? You want to use this blade? Like, I didn't know any of that.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And so you had to figure it out, but you feel like an idiot while you're trying to figure it out and you're like, you're trying not to be totally useless.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

So listen, like, I've already asked 73 questions today. I don't want to ask it anymore. I'm like, please, can I just get one thing? Can I just like, just figure out how to run the saw on my own? I don't want to ask, like, oh, my word. Like, that's what's going through. That was what was going through my head.

[Wally Adamcheck]

It's going through every human's head.

[Aaron]

Well, maybe, maybe I'm the only one that doesn't know how to use a quickie saw.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I think it's safe to say you're not.

[Aaron]

So I just, I just know going back to the best companies in the industry, the best companies in the industry have the best meetings in the morning.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Aaron]

There you go. There you go. Every one of them. Every one of them. I thought about like, you go to CW Matthews pre job meeting, you've been to one before. They get paving.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Been to a couple.

[Aaron]

It's awesome. Yeah, it's really something. It's amazing. I love being a part of it. Like, Rummel's another one that come to mind. Every single Rummel safety meeting I've been, I've been a part of.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Well, and I love it when they go, wally, do you have any questions? Yeah, like, they make me feel like I'm part of it.

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Because now when we get into Stop Work Authority, they've made me feel like I'm part of something and I'm never going to stop work, but I'm going to lean into the superintendent and go, is that right? Holy shit. Stop the work. Stop the work. You know? But I feel like I'm part of something, although I'm just a freaking tourist. The good ones bring you in. And hey, here's Wally. He's with us today. Here's why he's here today. And I'll be like, just keep me out of trouble. I'm going to try. But yes, those are from a leadership, management, morale, motivation, productivity perspective. That's probably the most important time of the day. And I'm not even going to quantify it. It could be 11 minutes someday and it could be 41 minutes someday and oh my God, 41 minutes. Well, you just stopped the trench collapse.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

So tell me what that is worth.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And oh no, we gotta go. And then they don't even get going.

[Aaron]

And well, it's just kind of a, it's just unorganized the whole day. I have been in those 41 minute meetings. But it's well beyond safety. It's a lot about just like what's going on today and why.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And so who's hauling where, what we need to be thinking about how we did yesterday, what we might be doing tomorrow. Like it's, it's, hey, you'll be on, you know, this, this other water poles down this morning. Mechanics are working on it this morning. They came up a little early. So you're actually going to be on 6 23, you know, whatever, whatever equipment number this is like, hey, you know, I heard this on the radio yesterday. I think we can be communicating a little bit better at this crossing. And just remember these guys have right away. Yeah, it's, it's though that's the kind of shit I remember. So if I remember it like I'm in so many of these meetings, like that means it's good. That means it's worth remembering.

[Wally Adamcheck]

That's how you know it's good. You walk away and you go, I could have done more of that.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And you know, whatever, whatever. You know, you go to a shop, you go to a meeting in the office and like we see a lot of bad ones and it's like, I would rather shoot me. But you're like, that was good. I could, when I say I could do more of that or that went fast. I know it's going well.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

I, I, and you know, it's good too because you enjoy it and it's actually helpful. It's like this is really good information because even from my perspective, like I want to know what's going on the site. So if I get, if I know what's going on before it even Starts up. It's like, this is fantastic.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Because you know where to look.

[Chris]

Yes.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Which is just fun from a tourist perspective. And you know where to step. And that's good from a keeping alive perspective because these big yellow pieces of iron are swinging around and shit happens.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

It's not supposed to, but it does. And one of the reasons is because you go where you're not supposed to go.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

It's like, all right, I gotta. I'm responsible for me here.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I mean, got a highway job at night.

[Aaron]

That's the most dangerous, I think. I don't think it gets more dangerous than that.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I was once told a flight deck is the most dangerous place in America. If that's true, a highway job at night is the second most dangerous place.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

I don't think there's anything more dangerous than. Yeah. Working highway. Interstate. Interstate night work.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And you'll have Dan Garcia and, you know, with cw. And he's out there all the time at midnight.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

You know, out there with his people. And what's he doing? He's just being there. And you say, well, leadership is showing up sometimes. That's what it is.

[Aaron]

And Dan, he doesn't talk a lot about building stuff because he knows that.

[Wally Adamcheck]

He'S got people to do that.

[Aaron]

I'm not the guy. I'm not the guy to figure out how to build stuff. I don't. I don't know how to build stuff as well as these guys do. He knows his place.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

He's. He's just there to serve and. But you can. You can tell. You can also tell. It's. It's really interesting watching. I spend a lot of time watching.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

You can get a really good read on a company when you watch how the people in the field respond to people from the office or leadership coming out.

[Chris]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Aaron]

That. You can learn a lot about a company just watching that dynamic.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Is it welcoming?

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Wally Adamcheck]

You can read the body language.

[Aaron]

Does everybody tense up? Is everybody. Who the fuck are these guys? Have they even seen these guys before? Like, yeah. There's so many different scenarios.

[Wally Adamcheck]

The only reason they're at the site is because you're at the site site. And they're doing a site visit.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Because you got to go visit two job. Yeah.

[Aaron]

Or is it somebody like Herb? It's like Herb. Like, yeah, we gotta go. Like, we need to go to the ne. Like. Like, can you get. Like, let's. Let's go here. I. I know. Or I know. I know. You want to introduce us to everybody? On the site. But, like. Yeah, we only have so much time. Like, we, We.

[Wally Adamcheck]

We haven't made it 30 yards into this one.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

But I do find it like, if. If you think about everybody we've referenced, like a. Herbs like that or like a Chad Goodfellow, like another one that's just, like, he's just talking to everybody and like, like they're buds.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And it's. It's a lot of fun. A lot of fun to watch. I love that dynamic.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And because we're not in it every single day, we can see it.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And. And I'm usually quick to point that out, like when we get back in the truck and go. I don't know if you realize that. Right. But from my perspective, here's what happened. Because they need to be reminded of that, these guys. Because they're, because they're, you know, when. When these CEOs show up and, and they just take it for granted. I'm like, dude, keep doing what you're doing. This is a point of differentiation. As opposed to the point. Opposed. The point place you go and you're like, man, that was fucking painful.

[Aaron]

But even not even at the executive level, like safety people, that's another great. I can tell the quality of a safety by how crews respond to them coming on the site.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

I. I really do.

[Wally Adamcheck]

If they're all throwing their goggles on the minute he shows up, there's probably, you know.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

But if they're. If it's just amicable.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Like, that alone tells me a lot. Or if it's like you could tell they're thinking, fuck this guy.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

I don't envy anybody in safety position, but I think you're a lot more effective when you have great relationships than not.

[Wally Adamcheck]

But that's this cultural shift. Right? It used to be enforcement and compliance. It still is.

[Aaron]

Oh, definitely still.

[Chris]

Right.

[Wally Adamcheck]

But, you know, oh, we hired this guy as retired state trooper, like, okay, that may not work well. It may work well, but it's this relational piece. It's this supportive piece. It's this collaborative piece. It's his teaching. Whatever words we want to use. Look, you still do enforcement and compliance, but it's a heck of a lot easier if they comply in the first place because they want to, as opposed to have to. I mean, that's basic motivation. But old. Welcome to 2025. This is how it can work.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

I think it's better. I don't know.

[Wally Adamcheck]

It doesn't. It doesn't have to suck.

[Aaron]

No.

[Chris]

Right.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I can go Home at the end of the day and go, honey, you know I got my ass chewed today because I did something stupid. And, man, it was. It wasn't that bad. Like, they taught. They. They. He coached me up instead of rolled his eyes, said, who the fuck trained you? And get out of my way, dumbass.

[Aaron]

Like, and sometimes, like, I still would argue there's times and there's a time and place for that. Like a swift, what the are you doing? Like, it can drive the point home pretty quick.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yes.

[Aaron]

And sometimes it's like, yeah, yeah, I got it. Like, I. I have learned. Well, maybe there was a better way to teach some of the lessons I've learned, but again, those are the ones I've stuck with me.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And in the moment, that. That's just raw emotion.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

So be it.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And so I. I do think there's, like, I don't want to go too far in the other direction. I don't think too far in the other directions, and I think that's what.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

A lot of the big corporate construction companies are trying to do. They're trying to go too far the other direction. It's like, hey, hey, hey. You do know things still need to get built.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yeah, we do need to build things out.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And that's like. That's the business. Like, we're. I saw a. This was years ago, like, a big sign on a. It was a GC. Of course. I love, love, love using GCs as an example. I forget which one, which one it was, but it was a big sign on the fence and says, we do safety here. And it's like, what, you don't do anything? No, no. Like, you build stuff. Like, hey, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Like, you build. You build here, and you might do it safely, but you don't do safety here. Like, what is doing safety? Yeah, like, well, like, doing safety is staying home.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I was like, well, if you're the gc, you're not really building. Your people are building for you kind of in there.

[Aaron]

Yeah, that's fine. Like, if you're. I understand There's. There's. Somebody needs to do the paperwork and everything. And these projects are sophisticated, so for, like, good, great. But, like, there's. There's. You don't do safety. You pay. You build stuff. You build stuff. You build. You build, build, build, build, build. You do construction and you do it safely. That's important. You have to have those two things, but that's not what you're doing.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

I love it. And I think there's been some of that. And it's like, hey, there's still a building to build.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Still a bridge to build. Still pipes put in the ground. Let's not forget about that.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yeah. What are we here to do?

[Chris]

Right.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And it's not paperwork and it's not software forms and all those things. Those. Do they enable us? Do they help with production?

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

It's not even equipment.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Oh, no.

[Aaron]

It's not even like.

[Wally Adamcheck]

No. It's just.

[Aaron]

It's not even machine.

[Wally Adamcheck]

It's everything.

[Aaron]

Yes. Yeah.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

I like, in talking with Jonathan at Wheeler, like all the time, he's like, the customer doesn't need a machine. They need a hole.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Right.

[Aaron]

It's like, bingo. They get paid for the hole, not for the machine. Our machine, we believe, is the best tool to make that hole happen. You can't make the hole happen without our tool. But our, our machine. Our tool is not the purpose here. It's like, that's.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I mean, in our world, leadership culture, training, whatever. No, it's about productivity. It's about retention.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

You know, that's the. Which ultimately is about profitability. Yeah. You know, that's the, the again, the math problem.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Is.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

You know, we're not trying to create a work life balance kind of scenario just because it's. Because we'll. Or make it easier for women to have a real career so that they can work, so that they can contribute to our company. And it's like, it's.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

This isn't, this isn't social engineering. This is a business.

[Aaron]

No.

[Wally Adamcheck]

How do we make this business work better?

[Aaron]

Well, and that's. That's your whole business is how do you work with people to make it work better? Like everybody's smiling, high fiving at the end, like, wow, that was great. But then they don't go make the business better.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

You're not going to get a call back.

[Wally Adamcheck]

We call that team building.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Team building.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Let's go do team building.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Oh, I'll tell you what. Billy and Tommy hate each other. Let's go act some throwing and see how it goes.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Let's do ax throwing. Let's make some spaghetti towers with marshmallows. Classic look.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Not bad.

[Aaron]

But you know, I. I see that. I'm a little jealous. I'm like, man, I wish we did that. But that I have. It has its place. But I have an aversion to stuff like that.

[Wally Adamcheck]

It's.

[Chris]

It.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I break out in hives a little bit whenever I hear team build. Building.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

I Think it's just gimmicky.

[Wally Adamcheck]

It can be very gimmicky. And that's the danger.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

You know, and whatever. You're building spaghetti towers, whatever. I mean, there's learning. There's definitely learnings that can be done there. But, you know, when your team has done that seven times and the consultant comes in and says, oh, we're gonna do this, you know, you need to fire him or tell them no. And that's about finding a good vendor and all those things. Right. Doing the due diligence and selection. But.

[Aaron]

So you're not doing a lot of spaghetti towers.

[Wally Adamcheck]

We've moved on to Legos.

[Aaron]

Legos are great.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Biggest toy company in the world for a reason.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yeah. There's a lot of bad training out there. You know it, I know it. And it's really tough to make it excellent because it has to be used to really be excellent. And that's why when you think about, you know, your platform or how we got to go do things, it. It's not a one off. It's. Yeah, it's. We're talking behavioral change. Whether that's safety or not being a jerk, it requires more than me telling you, don't be a jerk. It says, don't be a jerk. Here's one of the reasons you are a jerk, because the guy you worked for was a jerk. So that's all.

[Chris]

You know.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Here are three things you could do differently to not be a jerk.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I don't care which one. Can you just try this for the next 30 days?

[Aaron]

Here's the advantages to not being a jerk.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And then here's the payoff bubble will show up and actually give a shit. Right? And.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

No, it's. And that's. What's the payoff? Well, we make more money. Sign me up.

[Aaron]

Yeah, it is hard, though.

[Wally Adamcheck]

It's really hard. So therefore, let's not do it, because we're already doing okay.

[Aaron]

We're making more money than ever.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And this is the.

[Aaron]

Okay, we're making more money than ever.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Because, you know, again, the government just keeps funneling money, and I just keep putting in my pocket, why don't. Don't screw with it.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Hey, we're making haywell sunshine. Oh, yeah. And then Next Generation comes in, and it's like, they're not gonna want to rock the boat at all. One, either dad's still looking over my shoulder, which happens. Or two, I. I'm not gonna be the guy to fuck things up right away.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Right?

[Aaron]

Like, I don't need to Go prove myself. I'm just gonna. Well, I'm gonna prove myself by just keeping it on the tracks.

[Wally Adamcheck]

The funny thing is, if you keep it on the tracks, you'll have a good career.

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Chris]

Right.

[Aaron]

Yes. Well. And that's the crazy thing about it is a lot of these companies are pretty insulated, especially materials companies.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Oh, my gosh.

[Aaron]

You've got plants and pits again.

[Wally Adamcheck]

That's tough to screw up.

[Aaron]

I can't, as much as I would love to compete. Like in town, we've got Vulcan and Rogers.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

I'm going to start Aaron's Rocks.

[Chris]

Yeah. No, you're not.

[Aaron]

No, I'm not.

[Wally Adamcheck]

No, you're not.

[Aaron]

No, I'm not. And if I try to and I find the perfect location, it's unbelievable. Reserves for 100 years. It's not going to piss anybody off, so on and so forth. For some reason, I'm going to get really caught up in all kinds of litigation and issues that I just didn't foresee. And I don't know where these issues are coming from. I don't know who's where. It must just be the government looking out for the people.

[Chris]

Yes.

[Aaron]

And the environment. It's all about that. They're just. There's no other interest at play. I would never. That would never happen. No. I'm just. Now I'm just talking about shit you don't know. It's really hard for me to start Aaron's Rocks. It is really hard.

[Wally Adamcheck]

But it's really easy for you to start irons, excavating.

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Wally Adamcheck]

So go do that.

[Aaron]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. But even, but even. Even the more insulated companies, they still have to reckon with this at some point. Because unless they automate everything and if they do, good for them, good for them, I don't see that ever being possible because these pits aren't set up for automation.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Not in our near future.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

But anyway, I'm happy to be wrong on that. Unless they automate their entire business, they still have to have people at the end of the day doing the work.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And so every. Like, nobody is safe. Nobody is safe here. And the companies that I think are going to do the best are the sergeants, the hoopas, the CW Matthews, the companies we've already talked about, Goodfellas, etc. Because they have that mass, they have that weight, they have the bonding capacity, they have the balance sheet, the equipment, the people, the experience. They can. They, you know, they can't move as quickly as a. As we can because they're just. They're bigger organizations so there's just, there's time required but they have to wait so that they, they as they do move though they can put the weight behind it and boy can you make a big, big, big push there. So you have the more established companies that I think are going to do the best that are able to shift and then you have these new companies coming up.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

That. Because an excavation company is easy to start again. Quote, quotes, quote. Yeah, it's but it low buried entry.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

In the grand scheme of things there's a lot of people starting excavation companies that are unencumbered by the way we've always done it.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

That I think over the next 10, 20 years are really going to chip away at things.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I mean, I mean Kate, Katie Holden, you know, you know a great example.

[Aaron]

You know, great example.

[Wally Adamcheck]

You know these $30 million firms plus or minus that are saying, you know something, it doesn't have to be what it was. And, and I man there's, there's more than I'm aware of that are burns dirt down in Mississippi.

[Aaron]

Another great one.

[Wally Adamcheck]

People that are just saying I'm gonna do it different.

[Chris]

Yep. Right.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I'm still gonna do it. We're still gonna work hard. It's still gonna be gnarly, nasty, dirty, you know, whatever.

[Aaron]

It's still, we're do it well.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And oh by the way, there will be some 60 hour weeks. But here are the parameters in which we choose to operate. They're not hard and fast because like okay, maybe we'll travel a little bit or whatever. And I think KT just had one of those. It was like, hey, there's a job a state away. Do we want it?

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Wally Adamcheck]

But I agree with you this. Okay. The big guys can do their thing and you know they're aircraft carriers and they're, they're going to be okay. It's those, some of those middle market ones that are going to get caught in the middle and you know, too big to be small. Too small to be big, whatever the cliche we want to use is. But yeah, there's a whole new fleet of dynamic contractors that are changing the industry. I would say.

[Aaron]

I think the whole industry turns over in the next few decades. It's going to be few, it's going to be decades. But again, it's just a math problem. You just a majority of the industry will be retiring in the next 15 years. So the industry just by default will turn over. We've never had this kind of turnover as an industry before and that creates a huge opportunity.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Well, I had this conversation last week. It was generational, so third to fourth generation.

[Chris]

Wow.

[Wally Adamcheck]

50 million. Ish. So nice. A nice business.

[Chris]

Yeah. That's great.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Right?

[Aaron]

And.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Dad is still there, kind of in the corner helping out a little bit. Not in a bad way to help. Definitely helping out. And junior, very competent, etc. But he's like, okay, I need. I need some pre construction. I need some this. And Dad's like, well, we've never had that before. It's like. And I'm looking at going, dad, your company was a $20 million company. This is a $50 million. I know there's inflation, but like, this is a different dynamic. Like, you can't run this company today the way you ran it.

[Aaron]

The important distinction there is that the way he ran it isn't wrong either.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Exactly.

[Aaron]

That's how it got here.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Right.

[Aaron]

But it just doesn't. Even if it still worked for him. Yes, you are getting out of here. It doesn't work for others here.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yeah, look, hey, we won World War II. We won the Cold War.

[Chris]

Right?

[Wally Adamcheck]

God bless America.

[Aaron]

Some would say we did, but let's.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Just go with it. Our model is a good model. The people that have built America, construction wise, good people. Nothing's wrong. Quote. It's just, welcome to 2025.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

What does. What does that look like today? So, you know, the, you know, Gen 3 and Gen 4, you know, and Gen 3 is like, do you really need to spend that much money? And it's like, well, I. I kind of do because. Oh, by the way, I don't want to be doing estimates till midnight. I have four children.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And I love you, dad, but you were never there.

[Aaron]

Well, a great example. When Tyler and Katie were here, they were on the podcast as probably years ago now. I'd love to have them. I should have been back at some point because a lot's changed since then. But. Yeah, a simple example they used was they had a dump truck driver who was nervous to ask them if he could get off a few hours early on Fridays to. I think it was like picking up his kid.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Because of just scheduling.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And they were like, yeah, yeah, of course, of course. Like, of course. Yes. And. And. And Kate's talked a lot about this because she's running a business, but she's also a mother.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Quite a few kids going, like, quite a few young kids. Like, there's a lot happening in that family and they're as understanding as anybody. It's like, well, yeah, our people have lives and kids and families too. We need to accommodate that as a business or else we lose this person or their family deteriorates or something like that. There's this resentment created between them and maybe their spouse. Like all kinds of wacky stuff can happen. But then if you, if you do do that now you have this loyalty with this individual because they've never had that opportunity with any other employer. You, you, you figure out a creative solution to make that happen, which, I mean, a few hours on one day a week, like, it doesn't even have to be that. Like, doesn't have to be that groundbreaking.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And now you have fostered so much more trust and understanding. And I would bet the hours that truck driver works in a lot of ways are probably more effective after that as well.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Well, here's the flip side. My kids in the state championship. I run a paving plant. It's on the other side of the state. We're doing a night job, a lot of, you know, highway job, high stakes, etc. Do I even ask for the day off? Yeah, and it's on the other side of state, so. And one of three scenarios. I ask for the day off and then either I get it or I don't get it, you know, Or I don't even ask because I know they're going to say no or. So this is a true story. So the guy doesn't ask and the boss comes, hey, how you doing, kids? In the state champion. Oh, my God, that's great. You going? No, it was last week. Why didn't you go? I didn't think you gave me. I didn't think you gave me a day off. Why'd you think that?

[Aaron]

It just makes my stomach.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Because four years ago we had a guy who had the exact same scenario and you didn't give him off. Like, talk about a gut punch to that owner who was like, well, he was different, you know, I mean, what? Just. It's welcome to 20, 25, right? There's got to be a way to keep that hot plant moving if you're not there, if you're hospitalized. We'll figure it out.

[Aaron]

But even that's, that's, that's a huge point of exposure for your business if you only have one individual capable of running the planet in the first place.

[Wally Adamcheck]

So many elements to this, but this is a true freaking story. We don't make this shit up.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but I laugh because it's like we've been there all the time where we just have one person running a very, very important Part of the business. Like, what if they go away? We'd be fucked.

[Wally Adamcheck]

You'll figure it out.

[Chris]

Okay.

[Aaron]

Right on.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

No, I know somebody recently. Part of the reason. I mean, like a big part of the reason why they just quit their job was they didn't get the time off they requested.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And they're top performer.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Like, it's like top should be non negotiable.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Yeah, it should be. It should be like, no. And just not giving it off for no good reason.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And that, that, see, that's like. I think people are pretty understanding.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

If you're reasonable.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

With them. When you're not reasonable.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And they have choices now, more than they've ever had.

[Aaron]

Boy, do they.

[Wally Adamcheck]

You know, and that's one of the. One of the best things, worst things is owners. You know, people kind of get into this. This is where I work. It's almost like a habit. And they don't realize they can step across the street and make more money and have a better lifestyle because this is just what I do. But then when that light bulb does come on, oh, my God. I don't know why I didn't leave five years ago. Like, I was trying to tell you.

[Aaron]

Yeah. But this, this is. What if somebody asked me what keeps me up as an employer? This is what keeps me up. It's like, are we doing enough for our people? And I am just not in a bad way, but I'm just so paranoid. I just spend so much time and energy thinking it through because I don't think we are. Like, I'm constantly afraid that we're not.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Well, only the paranoid survive.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

But it's like I. Again, I was. I was talking. I just talked about this. I feel like another business owner. He's like, yeah, I just. I view it as everybody's even. Maybe. I said in this podcast, everybody's even. Every two weeks. You're even with your people every two weeks. It's like, fuck. That is totally true. That is everything in a nutshell. And if you forget that as an employer, you will pay for it.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Because there is a transactional nature to what we do. I give you time, you give me a wage. But how do we elevate that? And sometimes you don't.

[Aaron]

How do you elevate that? But. But you also like me, Mr. Employer. I can't put my perspective and desires onto people as well. It's like I'm running a very different play than anybody else at this company right now. Like, I don't Have a family.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

I don't have anything but this.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

But if I expect everybody else to be like that.

[Chris]

Is.

[Aaron]

That is fucking insane.

[Wally Adamcheck]

That's ownership.

[Aaron]

That's, that's, that's. I am so far out to lunch. But it's, it's, it's easier, it's easier said than done. Like, it's easy to go down that path. Like, like why aren't they as serious? Like, oh, wait, like I was talking to Dan about this probably years ago now. But it's like I'm the only one at this company where this company is the most important thing in my life.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

The only person. Everybody else has something else has something more important.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Was this humbling to you?

[Aaron]

No, it's just, it's just a very real realization. Like, like that's. And, and so. But it's, it's helpful because it's like, okay, I need to make sure that, that this is serving their interests, not mine. Like, it separates you separate self. The separation of self, I think is such a powerful, powerful thing. And I'm learning a lot more about it now. But it gets you out. Like my needs, what I'm trying to do. Irrelevant. What are they trying to do?

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And how can I align that with what we're trying to do? As, as, as a, as an organization? And if you can line those two things up now you're cooking.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Well, it's what, it's an. And statement.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

How can I get. Accomplish my goals and build what's goals.

[Chris]

Right.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And can that be an end statement? The answer is yes.

[Chris]

Yes.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Not always.

[Aaron]

Not always. Right. And it changes to company changes, individuals change.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I have kids, wives change, whatever, you know. Yes. Which is why you need to stay in touch with people and why sometimes people, quote, need to leave because they, their spouse got a job and wherever. And you can't support them from a work from home perspective or which you can do in a lot of cases.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

We have a lot more flexibility.

[Wally Adamcheck]

But if I'm a loader operator and my wife gets a job across the country, I'm sorry, I have to leave.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Love you. If you ever back, come on back.

[Aaron]

But it's, you know, it's funny because it's, it's, it's somewhat a double standard. And this isn't construction, this is employers in general. Employers are the first ones to be like, yeah, if we just have to get rid of people. Get rid of people.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

It's just business. Yeah, well, it's just business. I hope you can understand my Wife.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Has told me the minute you say it's just business, it means somebody got hurt.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah. But then, but then the other way around, when somebody leaves you like, oh, you get butthurt about it. You get, you get your feelings hurt. It's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. If the tables return, this would be a different conversation.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

But again, I've always had to put myself in their perspective. Like I can never fault somebody for doing what they think is in their.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Best interest as long as they have all the information.

[Aaron]

Yes. And maybe it's, maybe I don't believe it's in their best interest. And maybe then it's, it's a conversation. It's a conversation.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

But you can't at the same time convince people of anything they don't want to do.

[Chris]

No.

[Aaron]

And if they think. And there's other forces at play too. Like somebody can have a spouse and be like, listen, we've got to go do things as, as a family unit here. And this just doesn't align with that anymore. It's like they could want to stick around. It does work for them, but it doesn't work for their family, which then doesn't work for them. Life's complicated.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I'm disappointed. I'm grateful. Thank you. As opposed to get the fuck out?

[Aaron]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think just bitterness, it just poisons you before anybody else. If it even does poison anybody else. I mean, you're the first person to lose.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

When there's bitterness involved.

[Wally Adamcheck]

So you flip gratitude into that.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

How do you get gratitude into your life?

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And that sounds so touchy feely and woo woo.

[Aaron]

But I write about every day.

[Wally Adamcheck]

That's how you get it into your life. You, you look for it, you find it. And you know, man, I'm grateful that the airplane landed last night. Well, it's supposed to do that. Well, actually it was three hours late and I, it was a pain in the ass. But I'm grateful. I got to get where I got. I mean, it doesn't have to be I won the lottery stuff. In fact, it's not that. No, it's, you know, you and I had a great dinner last night. I got to watch a little hockey last night. I'm whatever it is. And we don't cultivate that because we take everything for granted and we have expectations about I deserve this. Goes back to I deserve this. You deserve nothing. No, you deserve the opportunity. I think. But so much of it is what do you give yourself? And we give ourselves the opportunity to have joy. Why does this matter? Because if you go to work and expect that from your people and from your company, it's not going to happen. So you as a leader, us as individuals, we as humans, we have a choice every single day. And it's how good can we stand it?

[Aaron]

But they're like, not having a shitty attitude again. You're the first person to win.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Exactly.

[Aaron]

I'm like, whenever, whenever I'm around somebody with a shitty attitude, I'm just like, man, I feel so bad for them. Like, that's. Yes.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Sucks to be you.

[Chris]

Oh.

[Aaron]

Like being that negative all the time, like, always seeing the glass half empty is like, man, what a bummer. Like, every day you do that. Like, that's how it I. Because you don't even have to do that. Like, that's the craziest thing. Like, if you didn't do that, it'd be so much better. It would, yeah. I mean, but. But like, most of the stuff I write about is it's going back to like the grocery store. Like, yeah, every. Whenever I go to grocery store, I'm like, I'll write like, I cannot believe I can just go buy whatever.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Whatever calories I need to live healthy, I can just go get them.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I'm grateful for kinds of meat. I'm sorry they didn't have the one I wanted, but this is.

[Aaron]

This is crazy.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

It's a 15 minute excursion to go get all the calories I need for an entire week. Here's some money. I walk out with just bags of all kinds of stuff from all over the world. Like, this is unbelievable.

[Chris]

Yes.

[Aaron]

But infrastructure makes that happen. And farmers. Thank you, farmer.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Well, you need people then. I guess. So you got that problem. So we come back to the premise.

[Aaron]

Yes, we do. But I think we can make a difference.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Well, I was driving down the road the other day. It was eastern North Carolina in the pocosan. Just flat nothing. I had time to think and I'm like, you know, I've been doing this for a while and man, I'm not done yet. I probably know more than I've ever known. And I have more insight and humility because I'm older, not the asshole, quite the asshole that I used to be. And my wife might disagree. But anyway, yeah, you know, I'm not done yet. Like, it's. There's. There's more people than ever, I think, that are interested in, quote, getting better. Look at the success you're having. And I always talk about you guys as a movement. You know, we're part of a movement. Like, is really cool. I'm like, I'm not done yet. This. I'm. I'm as excited as I've ever been because there's this opportunity, I think, and it's a small one, but for the folks that want to be part of it, it's like, let's go.

[Aaron]

But everybody that's a part of it is going to be way better off. Exactly.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Right.

[Aaron]

Thing about it, it's like, I'm not here to eat anybody's lunch. I'm not here to spoil anything, really. Like, I'm not here to make people worse off. Hey, we're going to have to do less. You have to make less money. This and that. It's like, no, no. This is the way to make more money as a business. This is the way to make more money as an individual. This is the way to have a better lifestyle, to build better infrastructure, to build a better economy. Take better care of your community. Set your kids up for success. Like, there's a lot of pros here. Cons. You're gonna have to admit, some of the things that you've believed in are now untrue.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

It's going to take work. It's going to be uncomfortable. But I would say the pros are right.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And I don't even know if those are cons.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Well, you said earlier, so the contractor down the street is not the competitor.

[Aaron]

No.

[Wally Adamcheck]

So I'm a member of the National Speakers association, trade association of experts who speak professionally.

[Aaron]

Whatever is that worth? Would that be worthwhile for me?

[Wally Adamcheck]

For you? Probably not. I've thought about it, but, yeah, there's a. You would be. So there's a lot of ego. Shocking, I'm sure. But one of the quotes I heard along the way was, we all want a piece of the pie. Let's make it a bigger pie.

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Chris]

Right.

[Aaron]

Can't we just buy more ingredients and make a bigger pie?

[Wally Adamcheck]

So the rising tide lifts all boats, whatever cliche you want to throw at it. But within our industry, it's like, okay, there are people that do what I do. I'll call it leadership and culture and construction. There's a handful. There's probably more than I'm aware of, but there's a handful of them.

[Aaron]

Not many.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Many. Which is one of the reasons I'm here. But how many trillion dollars in the industry? So I want those people to succeed because they elevate the trade. The craft of, quote, leadership Support, culture, training, whatever. As opposed to do poorly. Because now they badmouth every spreak on the road. It's like a contractor if you screw up. And I'm a contractor to. All contractors suck.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Now, that's not true. But. So, yeah, there's an opportunity here. And let's. Like I said, let's go. I'm not done yet.

[Aaron]

Well. And that's the whole reason why we created Dirt World.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

To create a forum for that physical location, for that exact thing to happen, just because it didn't exist.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Which is a singularly unique gathering.

[Aaron]

It's very unique.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And.

[Aaron]

And you've. I mean, you've been to a lot of them. I've been to a lot.

[Wally Adamcheck]

You know, and.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

You know, at Con Expo, you. You. I think you posted about this the other day. Con Expo. Great thing.

[Aaron]

Yeah, it's fantastic.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I highly recommend AGC of America.

[Aaron]

Your local nuka, whatever, state associations, all have.

[Wally Adamcheck]

A place, but Dirt World is unlike anything else. And people. And I can explain it more, but I'm just gonna say you should go to it.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

It's just. We had the advantage of that blank slate.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

So we could just say. Yeah, listen, we don't have to serve anybody. We don't have to serve incumbents.

[Chris]

Yep.

[Aaron]

We don't have to.

[Wally Adamcheck]

You don't have 40 years of history to.

[Aaron]

Yep.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Change.

[Aaron]

Yeah. We don't need board approval for anything.

[Chris]

Right.

[Aaron]

We can just draw something up on a piece of paper, run the play, see how it goes, make it better next time. And that's. That's like. It's frustrating because you can only iterate so fast with an annual event.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Which drives me nuts. But.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And when you do superior work, you can. How do you make it better?

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Because they've all been superior.

[Aaron]

Yes. There's a lot of room for improvement, which is exciting. Yeah, it's. It's very exciting. And. And frankly, our goal isn't to make the best industry event. It's to make one of the most dynamic, valuable events for any industry in the United States. Like. Yeah, that's the goal.

[Wally Adamcheck]

So you had with Louisville Paving, remember? And he. And Hunter was like, he goes, look, I don't want to be the best paving contractor. I want to be the best company in Louisville. When people think about getting a job in Louisville, I want the thing about us, not one thing about getting a construction job. And that's such a. That's a. That's a mind shift.

[Chris]

Right.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Because he's. He's not thinking about paving yeah. He's thinking about this bigger. And it's. It just struck me that that call it vision of his. Well, you can't execute if you don't have a vision.

[Aaron]

But that. But. But that's. That's just also an accurate representation of the marketplace because it's like, again, from an employment standpoint, I'm not comparing Louisville Paving to the other paving contractors. I'm comparing them to ups. That's right down the street.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And UPS is paying some coin right now. And even if I can't get some of that coin, I'm still seeing it on the Internet and I'm still seeing that big deal they worked out and so on and so forth. Like, hello? Like, 40, what, dollars an hour? For what? What?

[Wally Adamcheck]

Driving a truck?

[Aaron]

Are you kidding me? Like, sign me up. Let's go, dude. And I know it's not always that simple, but, like, you are competing, if you're in Louisville, to use that as an example, you are competing with every other company in Louisville.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

You're not competing with the other contractors in Louisville. You're competing with everybody in Louisville. So.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Well, I saw a piece the other day. It said that the medical community community is now recruiting in high schools because they want. All right, we kind of figured this one out, I don't know, five or five years ago. Whatever. Whatever it is. But. And. And we were like, oh, my God, yes. That's it. Like, that place is going to become a battleground again.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

You know, we kind of owned it for a little bit from an industry going in and get the kids and own, as a strong word. Like, we discovered an opportunity.

[Aaron]

I don't see, though, why we can't go fuck it up, for lack of a better term, like. Like own it.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Like, oh, we can, but it's every tool. But we're going to be bumping into more people than we used to.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Who are. Who are going down the demographic chain a little bit.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And who are more sophisticated.

[Chris]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

So, yeah. Yeah. The market, my labor market is.

[Aaron]

Well, I mean, but from civil construction, I would say it's not medicine. It's H Vac. It's electricians, plumbers. Like, there's. Because a lot of those, they are more consolidated. They've been rolled up a lot of times by private equity, etc. They just have more resources to go plow into recruitment.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And they're. Come over here, be a H Vac technician. Which is great. We need people.

[Wally Adamcheck]

We need them.

[Aaron]

That too.

[Wally Adamcheck]

We absolutely do.

[Aaron]

It's. It's it's, it's not even that. But I would say that's probably pulling more right now.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I agree. I agree.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

All right. Well how do people find you?

[Wally Adamcheck]

Wally adamcheck.com constructionleadership.com either way or constructionleadership.com yeah.

[Aaron]

And then you're on LinkedIn all the time.

[Wally Adamcheck]

All the time. Yeah, all the time.

[Aaron]

So Wally, Adam, check on LinkedIn. That's probably where I see that's where.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I spend a lot of my time.

[Aaron]

All your stuff.

[Chris]

Yeah, yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

It's what's got the new website coming out.

[Aaron]

Really?

[Wally Adamcheck]

Yeah. There's a company called Fieldwork.

[Aaron]

Oh no.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Oh that's great.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Oh really cool.

[Wally Adamcheck]

For folks who don't know, that's the, was the marketing arm of Build Wet. Right. Or the content. No, the creative.

[Aaron]

Creative side marketing business.

[Wally Adamcheck]

So they, we spun it off. They spun it off.

[Aaron]

Field work now.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And Chase is a brand whisperer.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

He hold the whole team.

[Wally Adamcheck]

This was before you spun.

[Aaron]

Absolutely.

[Wally Adamcheck]

He and I hooked up wizards and we sat in a room for two hours and he was able to articulate more about my values in two hours than I did in 22 years.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And earlier I said I'm not done yet. Like we're almost ready to launch this thing. As is always the case. Website's never ready. But yeah. So Wally adamchick dot com.

[Aaron]

Well, he's, he's the, he's the foremost expert on branding in the civil construction industry. There's nobody that's branded successfully more companies than him at this point. Yeah. And in that team.

[Wally Adamcheck]

And I didn't want to be a speaker.

[Chris]

Right.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I mean I, I wanted to be part of this industry, which is what I've done for my lifetime. Except being in the marines.

[Aaron]

You've been here a lot longer than I. That's, I'm just a little squirt.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Thanks for noticing.

[Aaron]

I'm still just like, I'm like gum on your shoe.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I appreciate that. Respect. Was that respect?

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Wally Adamcheck]

Okay, fair enough.

[Aaron]

Anyway, I'm like, I'm like an annoying like at this point. Like an annoying piece of gum. Like it's like still pretty fresh sticky.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I don't know. I think people are starting to appreciate you. Maybe, maybe Wally amcheck.com super.

[Aaron]

Well, thank you, Wally. And I'll probably see at the summit.

[Chris]

You'll.

[Wally Adamcheck]

I, I, I think so. Cuz I think I'm emceeing it.

[Aaron]

Oh great. Well then we'll really see at summit. Fantastic.