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- [00:00]
Aaron
You know, I would. I've asked everybody working around autonomous equipment. What do you think about it? Everybody likes it because the machines do what they should do.
- [00:09]
Matt
Sure.
- [00:10]
Aaron
And then it allows them to go do other stuff.
- [00:12]
Matt
Right.
- [00:12]
Aaron
Or work in support machines or move up a little bit faster. Like it allows them to work in other parts of the operation. Definitely, yeah. There was a video I saw. It was a waymo. It was in San Francisco and it drove into a construction area and the road was shut. They were doing utility work or something like that. And so it drove in slowly, like it didn't run through the site, but then it just got stuck, like it didn't know what to do.
- [00:40]
Matt
That's exactly what happened in this job.
- [00:43]
Aaron
But these construction workers, like, so what do we do with it?
- [00:46]
Matt
Right. Well, some of our guys in the video, you can see they're like, talking to, like, when it got close to them, they were like, whoa, like somebody was going to stop. So, I mean, it. You know, your mind just hasn't comprehended that, hey, this is what's going to happen or what we're faced with. But that's hilarious.
- [01:03]
Aaron
What do you call?
- [01:04]
Matt
Or like, exactly.
- [01:16]
Aaron
I think every construction company should have a podcast. I think it's the perfect medium. Because in construction, like, how many people? I mean, the windshield time within your company. Crazy.
- [01:26]
Matt
That was my point. It's like most. I mean, we have employees that drive all the way from Alabama. I mean, there's a ton of people that are unfortunately on the road. An hour each way a day. Sure. I mean, I would say over 50% of our employees are riding more than an hour each way. So there's no excuse that, hey, I don't have time to listen to whatever. It's just whether you make it a priority or not. But again, it took a little bit of the, you know, the inability to get the message to everybody. Now you can really say, hey, that information was there. We shared it with you. It's not an I got you, but it's, hey, really try to listen to it. 1. You'll learn from a lot of great leaders at all levels of the organization or outside. But also, you'll know what's going on in the company, how much backlog we have, what's, you know, recognizing employees, whether it's retirement. And again, probably one of my favorite parts is that employees are sending recognitions in about their peers, so we get to share that at every episode. Yeah, it's fun.
- [02:27]
Aaron
I do think the. I've reflected a lot upon. I think it's essential for you to be involved in it. Like, I do think that's what. It's not what makes the whole thing, but. But like, whoever is leading the organization has to be involved.
- [02:50]
Matt
I agree.
- [02:51]
Aaron
And this is something I've noticed within Construction is sometimes whoever's leading isn't the best communicator. But it's like, that's your job, especially at your level. You don't build anything anymore.
- [03:04]
Matt
Right.
- [03:05]
Aaron
You're not estimating anything.
- [03:06]
Matt
Exactly. Absolutely. And honestly, I mean, I'm not the best communicator, but. And it started. I mean, when I start. When we started doing it, I was like, super nervous and planning out questions and all that. And it's gone completely away from that into, let's just have a conversation. And I feel like now I'm stuck in from my heart. And whether it's, you know, great communication or not, I think it's more like who we are. So we're having a conversation. We're kidding around. We're having a great time, you know, sharing these experiences with these. With these amazing employees. So it's more of an. Honestly, for me, it's kind of a turn the phone off. And it's more of a detox for an hour every two weeks of. You can kind of put all that aside and just have an awesome conversation with. With one of your teammates.
- [03:55]
Aaron
But that's good communication. And like, I feel like people, especially at bigger companies, too, they just think too much about everything and they. They try to control everything and like, almost let the lawyers, like, you know, the lawyer on one one shoulder and the HR person on the other shoulder, like, control everything. I. I just fell victim to this. We. I was trying to, like, draft to the perfect message about something that happened within the business. And I. I just got fed up. It's like, what am I doing? Why? And, And. And if you try to craft the perfect message, then it does the. The opposite because it's not genuine.
- [04:33]
Matt
You're exactly right.
- [04:34]
Aaron
And so. So I just record a video and said, this is what happened.
- [04:38]
Matt
Yes, because that's who you are. That's the culture of the organization again. At first we were like, preparing so much for it, and I'm like, that's not really who we are. Like, we're sending the scripted message or whatever. No, excellent point. We were talking about, and I can dig into or share more with you, but we've got this advanced leadership program we just started, first time we've done, and we have five teams doing different topics that they will Present at the end of the year. One of them that I really wanted them to work on, some of it came from their ideas, but definitely from ours as well. Is the next downturn is what the label of it. Just because a lot of our young middle managers and up and comers really didn't experience that downturn of 08.09. And one of the. For the guys that were there, the number one thing they told me that they felt we could have done better was communicate and be honest when things were happening. Right. It was. I think everybody in the industry was going through a hard time, but if you're upfront and say, times are tough, this is what we're going to do, this is the process, these are the other things that we're doing. You know, the feedback was like, everything was being secretive and, And I wasn't with Matthews at that time, but in the company I was working for before, kind of similar. Right, sure. So I think if we learn, one lesson is, hey, let's just be upfront with our people and in everything we do. And, yeah, it might, they might not take the news well, but at least you can look at yourself in the mirror and say, hey, I was open. I told you what was going on. And I think, you know, that's. At least, I hope that's how our culture is now at the company. So I think there's plenty of lessons learned from that.
- [06:28]
Aaron
Well, it's, it's, it's relieving from a leadership standpoint to just, here's how it is.
- [06:35]
Matt
Right.
- [06:35]
Aaron
It's like, I don't have to write, I don't have to calculate message, and I can just talk.
- [06:44]
Matt
Yes.
- [06:44]
Aaron
And I think that's why the podcast format is so popular now, too. Like, I was on, and I'm grateful for the opportunity, but Fox News, a few weeks ago, Fox Business, which was great, like, that's fine, awesome. But it's such an odd format. It's such a. It's a format I am not. And that was, that was it. That was the format for a very long time was it's going to be three minutes. You're going to be paired with somebody else. You don't know. You're going to get passed around from different, you know, control room to this person, to this person. This person. Now you're on. You're going to get two questions. You're going to have, you know, did.
- [07:23]
Matt
You know what the questions were going to be?
- [07:25]
Aaron
Not really, but. But then it's, it's not even. It's like It's. It's surface level because it's only just a few minutes. It's just the format. It's just. It's constrained. And I'm used to this.
- [07:37]
Matt
Right.
- [07:38]
Aaron
Or I can just talk with.
- [07:39]
Matt
Sure.
- [07:40]
Aaron
Or what we do on social media.
- [07:42]
Matt
It's like, I can see where that would have been different.
- [07:45]
Aaron
Well, it's. It's. It's. Yeah. I was into it. I was like, wow, this is way different.
- [07:50]
Matt
I want to look it up. I hate that I missed it.
- [07:52]
Aaron
I don't know if I. I don't know if it was worth all that.
- [07:54]
Matt
Sure. But I did see. I was listening not long ago because I followed Dave Ramsey and I saw where y', all, and I was like, how awesome is that? It was two guys were together.
- [08:03]
Aaron
Yeah.
- [08:03]
Matt
And I mean, for our industry. Right. Sure. You know, I think, man, that was a great episode. Well.
- [08:09]
Aaron
And he just. He just makes so much sense.
- [08:11]
Matt
Yes. Everything he says that makes sense.
- [08:14]
Aaron
Yep.
- [08:15]
Matt
Absolutely. Absolutely. It does. You can't refute it in. I mean, I was. I was impressed of his knowledge about the industry. Like, you could tell he's worked either with construction company or. Or construction people because he, you know, the conversation was very much where he understood what. Where the industry is or what's going and that sort of thing. So.
- [08:39]
Aaron
Well, and I like, in that conversation, it was a lot about family business.
- [08:43]
Matt
Yes.
- [08:44]
Aaron
Construction's predominantly family business.
- [08:46]
Matt
Absolutely.
- [08:47]
Aaron
And very few other industries are like that nowadays. Most of them are so consolidated now that you want to go start a phone company, car company.
- [08:56]
Matt
Right.
- [08:57]
Aaron
Like, it doesn't. It just doesn't work. But construction still is.
- [09:01]
Matt
That's a good point.
- [09:02]
Aaron
Yeah. You can go, you know, Cat finance will give you a skid steer. Give your dog a skid steer. I mean, they'll give everybody a skid steer. And you're a contractor.
- [09:10]
Matt
Yeah, that's true.
- [09:12]
Aaron
But the, like, his conver. It was. It was. It was. It was the first time I'd heard someone explain the intergenerational struggles so clearly, because I've seen it so many times. I'm sure you've seen it, and everybody in the construction industry, no matter what position they're in, has seen it.
- [09:31]
Matt
Sure.
- [09:32]
Aaron
Um, and it's great and it's terrible and it's everything in between. But he was able to just articulate it so clearly.
- [09:40]
Matt
He did.
- [09:41]
Aaron
Wow. I'd never heard it explained like that before.
- [09:45]
Matt
How did you two connect?
- [09:48]
Aaron
It was through Jason. We've been building a relationship with. With Ramsey for years now because of the need for what they do within the construction industry. It's, it's, it's a no brainer to be involved with. And, and when it comes to managing finances, who's better, right? No one. So we've developed that relationship and then this opportunity came up and very neat. One, two, six. There we were. What's the. How are you facilitating the advanced leadership program?
- [10:21]
Matt
Man, I'll tell you, I'm so pumped about this. So again, it's the first, first year we're doing it. We, we've done a what we call frontline leadership academy for quite some time now and we're continuing to do that. But the ide. Okay, how do we take it to the next level? And again just have a group of co workers that are really either just entered into an executive level position or kind of are the future of the company. So we partnered the frontline leadership. We were doing that with Wally Adamchek and so reached out to Wally on that. We had been talking about it for a little while because I had gone through something similar when I worked for a prior company. So anyway, it's a little different format but Wally came in. So there's a total of four people leading it, I should say from the outside or really not so much leading it, emcee ing it. I should say Wally Lanny House, he was a professor at NC State and then Joe Schneider is one of them. I don't know if you've interacted with them. Great, great person, just individual and coach. And then Garth who's worked with Wally, ex military. So anyway they each have, they're doing some coaching with these. We got 20 people in the class. There's some peer to peer coaching. They're doing that but really they're taking all kinds of programs, personality assessments and then we're doing, just trying to expose them to things even outside of the industry. So one of the neat things we just did is we went to Chick Fil A headquarters to visit them and their VP of innovation spent some time with the team, their culture, culture lead, did their HR and then their strategy person. So it's more about how do you pave a road or build a bridge. It's trying to get them to think strategically, you know, at a higher level. And these, like I said, these are going to be the people leading the company in the future.
- [12:37]
Aaron
So is this like project manager level or vice president level?
- [12:39]
Matt
There's vice presidents and project managers. We've got people from our estimating team. We've got, you know, people from Our grading division, asphalt plant. But yeah, middle management into the executive level. And again, a lot of, you know, kind of digging in into who you are as a person. Maybe some things that you got to work on here. In the next few weeks, they're going to do a360 to get some feedback from their bosses and peers and their own employees. Just a multitude. I want to say it's probably a terrible description for it. Originally I called it a mini mba. It's really not that because we're not getting a ton into the financial stuff. It's really more getting them put in situations, discuss opportunities for improvement, both personally and for the company. But one of the things that we just did or they did is they read a book called Edge Strategy, for example. So they presented in groups, they get to work in groups and just ideas for the company of maybe business segments that we're not currently performing that where we could utilize our people and equipment to do these things without really spending a bunch of capital or it could have been ideas that are something we're just not doing that that fits in the realm of the industry. So, sure, a ton of that. The, you know, the. Again, the other part is just a camaraderie. I mean, they're spending a ton of time together and they're doing projects together that they're going to present. So, you know, I just feel like, I mean, you can kind of tell they're all clicking and, you know, eventually, again, they're going to have to work together at their next roles or their current roles. So I just think it'll make us stronger in the future. Great feedback from everybody. And, and then, I mean, in pure honesty, like, it's given us an opportunity to kind of learn more and see these individuals interact between each other and others and say, hey, I'm thinking this guy might be the next ex. Is he really prepared to that can he. They go over this thing called levels of work is, you know, can they really step into the next role or are they capped out at this point? So, so far, so good though. And I think, like I said, the feedback that we're getting, we'll go to the Caterpillar plan in September and they'll. We'll have some interaction with some executive there.
- [15:08]
Aaron
The one up the road in.
- [15:09]
Matt
Yes. In Athens. Yeah, yeah, we'll have interaction with a nonprofit in Athens and, you know, serve in that. So it's a lot of different realms and kind of ideas coming from everywhere. And then like I said, the final, like, you know, quote unquote graduation will be them presenting on these five topics that they'll be researching and, you know, presenting a plan on how we could improve in a lot of different areas. You know, divisional cooperation, compensation and benefits. I mean, just exploring a lot of different things. And we're challenging them not to just look internally, but a. And not even in our industry. Like, look outside. You know, feel free to, like, explore and see. Maybe we can learn something, which I know we can from the outside, that maybe we could bring in and make us better. It's exciting.
- [16:03]
Aaron
Did you pick these people or.
- [16:04]
Matt
So they applied. Okay, that was kind of interesting and tough, to be honest with you, because since it was the first class, we had 63 applications and we were only going to select 16, but ended up selecting 20. So we will do another one. Not sure if next year or a couple years from now, but it was great for the 20 that got selected. And then a few tough conversations with some people that didn't get selected, which I loved in a way because they were passionate and they wanted to know, hey, why did I not get selected? What do I need to do or improve on to get selected for the next one? And honestly, there were some people that didn't get selected and they were ready for it. It's just that we wanted to keep the group small enough where they would be, you know, a smaller group, more interaction. Obviously the coaches don't need a ton of people, so it worked well.
- [17:03]
Aaron
That's pretty cool.
- [17:04]
Matt
Yeah, like I said, I'm very excited. I think they are too, and they appreciate. One of the feedback we get is, hey, we would like to get better training, but, you know, more on the leadership side. And I think this is bringing that to them.
- [17:20]
Aaron
Are you involved in the program at all?
- [17:22]
Matt
You know, we're involved in that. We're participating. I get excited about stuff like that. But honestly, the chairman of our company has been going. Our cfo, obviously, our HR folks, just more to make sure that messages are aligned. And heck, I'm learning. I mean, at the Chick Fil A thing, I mean, I was taking notes, like if I was a student, because I need it too, right? I mean, you kind of get in the tunnel and you forget that, hey, what about this, that or the other? So I left there with, I'm sure, as many notes as some of those people. And we got lucky. I mean, this wasn't planned at all. We finished the day, for example, Chick Fil A. We were walking into the corporate headquarters and one of the family members, the son of Truett Cathy was coming out. Just purely coincidental. He spent like 15 minutes with, I mean he had everybody doing like the Chick Fil a cheer. None of that was planned. That was just in the entrance. But he shared his vision for the company, for the past and also for the future. So clear just in a few minutes in the entrance of the building. It was pretty neat. And then we got to meet the grandson and he kind of told some stories about him, but just to see again their culture and their vision and the innovation side. And then we want to do that, like I said, with, with other industries. And then we're looking at ourselves in the mirror and kind of saying, hey, where do we want to be five years from now, ten years from now? What are some of the things we need to accomplish to get there? And again, are these 20 the right people to get us there?
- [19:00]
Aaron
Yeah, because that, I mean that is the future of the company.
- [19:04]
Matt
Sure. Without individuals. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
- [19:07]
Aaron
I mean it's the whole company, but it is that leadership.
- [19:13]
Matt
Without a doubt.
- [19:14]
Aaron
Yeah.
- [19:15]
Matt
And we have one family member in the group that works for the business. So it was one family member, but there's 19 others that are not. And the reality is. Yes, those will be the folks leading the company in the future.
- [19:26]
Aaron
Yeah. Because it's still family held.
- [19:29]
Matt
Yes.
- [19:30]
Aaron
But the family's not involved in the day to day.
- [19:34]
Matt
There's very few family members involved. We have. The chairman of our board is obviously leading from that perspective, but not in the day to day. No. That's actually Matt Burton, who's Bob Matthews son in law.
- [19:48]
Aaron
Okay.
- [19:50]
Matt
And then the fourth generations come in. So Michael Matthews, he ran a grading crew for several years. Now he's on the asphalt plant side. So he's working at plants, dealing with FOB customers, dealing with that side. And then Matt's son is involved. He's more on the investment side of the company. One of the son in law's has come in, that's fourth generation. He's working as a project engineer on our grading division. So there's a few, but not, not a lot of family but need to see them. Right. Because they're super engaged. I mean they're just not, you know, collecting a check or anything. I mean they're actually in the day to day working just like all their peers out there, but obviously have some inside. Two of them are part of our board, but they have day jobs that. Where they're working just like everybody else. Which is awesome to see.
- [20:47]
Aaron
I think that's huge.
- [20:48]
Matt
Yes.
- [20:48]
Aaron
Yeah. I mean there's a bunch of ways to do it. But I think it's cool when it's your family held, which gives you some freedoms.
- [20:57]
Matt
Yes.
- [20:57]
Aaron
That other ownership structures don't allow you.
- [21:02]
Matt
Absolutely.
- [21:04]
Aaron
But then everybody's still very engaged and aligned with the business because at, I mean, what generation is it now? It's fourth. Yeah, fourth. So 75 years.
- [21:14]
Matt
It'll be 80 years next year. So we're at 79 years right now. So.
- [21:18]
Aaron
Yes, but you can get 80 years out and at a business that size too, you start to. You can get a lot of family involved right at that fourth level.
- [21:28]
Matt
Yes, you can.
- [21:30]
Aaron
And sometimes they're involved in the business, sometimes they're not.
- [21:33]
Matt
Yes.
- [21:33]
Aaron
But then, you know, everybody's not necessarily aligned then that it could work or it could create complications.
- [21:41]
Matt
I call it half involved doesn't work. That's, that's my, that's my saying is you either have to be fully involved or not involved because just coming in and out, that creates problems. I think, you know, you insert yourself and then you leave. Thankfully, we don't have that. So, you know, those that are in the business are fully involved and there's not somebody that's really just kind of half in it and it just comes in and maybe makes some suggestions for proclamations and then you might not see for a while. Thankfully, we don't have that, which is why I think makes it successful.
- [22:16]
Aaron
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- [23:22]
Matt
Mine? Yeah, about to turn 25.
- [23:25]
Aaron
Okay. Do your kids have any interest in construction?
- [23:27]
Matt
I wish, I wish they did. You know, four girls, one boy. Our son worked for us all summer doing quality Control. But the girls I couldn't convince. And, you know, it breaks my heart because, I mean, I think it's such an awesome industry and I really think, you know, they would have enjoyed it. But no, I'm not successful. Yeah, I've not been successful in that.
- [23:50]
Aaron
But it is an industry where you can't be half in, half out either. You've either got to be all in on it. A paving crew in July.
- [24:01]
Matt
Yes, in.
- [24:02]
Aaron
In Georgia.
- [24:03]
Matt
Yes, exactly. That's tough.
- [24:06]
Aaron
That's tough. That's hard work.
- [24:07]
Matt
It really is.
- [24:08]
Aaron
You know, nights or whatever it is, is. It's sure you've got to be all.
- [24:12]
Matt
And I love that they're involved because when you're making decisions about people, whether it's compensation, benefits or just really just anything they understand. Right. You can have that conversation where they understand where you're coming from. Whereas if you're removed, really not involved, you don't have that connection with the employees or understand what they go through. That's why for years I loved working for Bob Matthews because, I mean, he really was in the trenches and grew through it. So he understands that when it rains you can't pave, or when market conditions are tough, that, you know, you get more competitive. And having the family understand all those dynamics is awesome because they're in the trenches with you, you know, at all levels. They understand why you're making the decisions you're making. And, you know, it makes life a lot easier for someone like me.
- [25:02]
Aaron
Absolutely. Where do you spend most of your time nowadays? How often do you get out into the field?
- [25:08]
Matt
I don't get out as much as I used to, unfortunately. You know, a lot of it is, which I know is important. It's just being out on the field is what I love. But, you know, like right now, ton around this advanced leadership program, large projects have come into the area. So we're spending a ton of time, you know, at high level negotiating contracts or talking to potential, you know, owners of these large projects. Still pretty involved on the estimating side at a higher level, but just on. On larger jobs there as well. And then, you know, we did an acquisition last year, so spent a good bit of time kind of in that. In that area. It's through the gamut. I mean, still involved in, you know, was driving up here this morning, we got an issue. We're paving at an airport where we had, you know, an issue and kind of somewhat involved with that. Just kind of know what's going on, but definitely more on the, on the bigger picture. A ton on the employee side, you know, involved on the overall safety side. But, but I guess that, you know, more of a. Don't, you know, wish I had more time for the strategic side. I tend to find myself, you know, going back into the operations because I love that part, but definitely have made more of a concerted effort to say okay and I trust our team. So it's not like I don't, but it's like, hey, let them handle the day to day, those kind of issues and try to, try to, you know, back off and really help more at the, at the higher level and with larger jobs and more complexity coming into, into Georgia, you know, trying to spend more time in that, continuing to build relationships in that area with our customers and that sort of thing.
- [27:02]
Aaron
The giant job you guys are starting.
- [27:04]
Matt
Yes.
- [27:04]
Aaron
Over a billion dollars.
- [27:05]
Matt
Yes.
- [27:06]
Aaron
We can talk about this stuff since you're public. Public contractor.
- [27:08]
Matt
Sure, sure, sure.
- [27:11]
Aaron
Because sometimes we can't talk numbers because it's private, whatever it is. Previously. What was your biggest job?
- [27:16]
Matt
Oh my goodness. I think our biggest was around 300 million.
- [27:23]
Aaron
Four times the size.
- [27:24]
Matt
Yes, yes. We build the. And this was before I joined Matthews. There was a joint venture of APAC and Matthews to build the fifth Runway at the Hartsville Jackson Airport. That was a large job.
- [27:37]
Aaron
I wish I could have seen they.
- [27:38]
Matt
Have the conveyor going over the interstate and all that. Had built a large job on, on 3 16. But nothing, nothing like this. Now say, I mean it sounds huge and it is, believe me. I mean, you know, it's not that, you know, it doesn't make you nervous starting a job that big, but, but it's what we do day in and day out. You know, it's bridge work, it's paving, it's grading, it's. It's just a very large intersection. The fifth worst intersection in the country as far as traffic and congestion. So there'll be a lot of nights, days, weekends, all that sort of stuff. But the good thing is it's in our wheelhouse. It's what we do. So yeah, we're excited about it. We've gone through the. It's a design bill. Finance. It's the first time that we're doing a job that has a finance component. So the DOT has a certain amount of money they pay in certain years and you basically have to finance the gap. So obviously we work with outside consultants to get that part lined up. But the work itself, like I said, is what we do day in and day out. And we just finished or still haven't finished the design portion, all the design won't be completed till probably close to summer. But there's areas of the job that are opening up that we're already going.
- [29:00]
Aaron
And to explain that to somebody that hasn't been involved in estimating a billion dollar job, you're not just getting a bid packet and putting a price on it and putting it in an envelope and sending it to Georgia dot.
- [29:15]
Matt
Right.
- [29:15]
Aaron
And then they read, they read the prices and whoever's lowest gets it.
- [29:18]
Matt
Although it wasn't too far from that. I mean, you kind of put the bid together like any other. But obviously the design component, I mean, our team spend months and months, I mean this job was over a couple of years kind of looking at ways to improve, come up with, you know, ideas. Because being a design build, we had more flexibility obviously of coming up with ways to cut cost and.
- [29:44]
Aaron
But explain, explain that process.
- [29:46]
Matt
Oh, goodness.
- [29:47]
Aaron
So they kind of tell you what they want.
- [29:48]
Matt
Yeah, they tell you they give you a basic 30%. This is kind of what, what you, what we want. And then we team up with an engineering firm and start the conversation. I mean, when I tell you hundreds, thousands of hours of meetings with the engineering firm, with numerous people at our company, it's small, but it's mighty. We have a separate division that just deals with design build projects. So they spend an incredible amount of time coming up with ideas that then we present to the dot. There's what they call one on one meetings. So you come up with these ideas, you bring them to the DOT and you discuss them with them. The other teams competing against you are doing the same thing. And then they vet them. They said, yes, proceed with this idea or no, we don't want that. So I mean, that process took over a year. And then the day comes where you turn in your price and then you also turn in your technical proposals. So then the DOT evaluates pricing and they evaluate, they know what they're doing or this is, you know, their ideas or plans and then that's how they award. And then once they award, in this case, because it had the finance component, we had to reach financial closing, make sure that all the terms there were correct, which, I mean, that was very complicated. I mean bonds and banks and consultants and million attorneys and just a lot of people that guide you in that process. And then you also begin the design process, which is going to take 18 months of getting all that finalized and then you go to work. Right. So it's a lot. I mean, and you learn in all of these, but we have had a good bit of experience in design build, but much smaller projects, and those have gone well for us. Like I said, our team has done a good job. But this obviously much larger project and having the finance component, we had more outside consulting help in that area than we've had in the past.
- [32:06]
Aaron
Which engineering firm?
- [32:07]
Matt
Ice. So, yeah, we're using Arcadis and ICE on that project, which in our area are incredible. They're very good. They understand the dot, they know the work, so it's been good. There's other great firms, we've teamed up with other engineering firms, but for that project, that's who we're with.
- [32:33]
Aaron
And you guys are the largest.
- [32:36]
Matt
Road.
- [32:37]
Aaron
Contractor in Georgia, but you're competing against these behemoth organizations. Oh, absolutely. Construction companies in the country.
- [32:46]
Matt
Absolutely. And in the world, right?
- [32:48]
Aaron
And in the world.
- [32:49]
Matt
Yeah, they're doing it.
- [32:49]
Aaron
Yeah.
- [32:50]
Matt
For, for those kind of projects. I mean, you're seeing very few American companies looking at those mainly as these large companies.
- [32:59]
Aaron
You're big fish usually. But yeah, this kind of table, this.
- [33:03]
Matt
Is a whole nother level. Yes, we. We absolutely are. And you know, the funny thing is when that, when the job was announced, because of one thing and another or another, there was two jobs concurrent that were concurrent as far as the process. And it somehow, some way, both the DOT ended up deciding to read out both jobs on the same day. So they read our job first and we were selected. So for 10 minutes, literally 10 minutes, we were the largest job in the history of the state. And then 10 minutes later, they announced the other job, which is State Route 400. Our job's 1.4 too. That job was $4.5 billion. I mean, four times our size. And so again, for 10 minutes, we were the largest job. And now, of course, that project is getting, you know, on its way. We. That was a whole different team, Flatiron, Dragados and Acciona that secured that job. And it's a 50 year concession. So much larger job. But both ours is just now starting today. It's our first day of actual physical work on the job, but. And then their job, by next summer it'll start. And again, four and a half billion dollar jobs. I mean, it's just incredible.
- [34:29]
Aaron
What's crazy though, and we were talking about a little bit before we started recording, is like a billion dollar job ten years ago.
- [34:36]
Matt
Oh, yes.
- [34:37]
Aaron
Almost unheard of.
- [34:38]
Matt
Oh, absolutely.
- [34:39]
Aaron
Or like some giant mega project somewhere that's like, wow, not around our area. Yeah, yeah.
- [34:47]
Matt
This somewhere else.
- [34:48]
Aaron
Or like a highway. Yes, it was almost unthinkable. And then in the private market, like a billion dollar private development was like as big as it gets. Now They, I mean they, they're, they're like on every street corner nowadays. But yeah, these, these multibillion dollar jobs are almost starting to become like, I don't want to say common, but not uncommon.
- [35:13]
Matt
Yes. Not unheard of. Right. Which before you were like, I mean, I mean, like I say, even for us billion dollar jobs, like, that's huge.
- [35:20]
Aaron
Yeah.
- [35:21]
Matt
But then ten minutes later you seen that four and a half billion dollar job. It is to your point. I mean, I think it's more, more common now obviously than it was years ago. I mean, even smaller jobs like it used to be. I mean, Bob Matthews talks about this like a $20 million job was a huge job, you know, when he was starting out and all that. I mean, years into the company. Whereas Now, I mean, $20 million unfortunately doesn't go very far, you know. So definitely that has changed over the last couple of decades.
- [35:59]
Aaron
A job that big, it is substantial risk for the company, isn't it?
- [36:03]
Matt
Oh, significant.
- [36:04]
Aaron
So you've got to get it, you've got to make sure you get it right.
- [36:07]
Matt
Absolutely. All eyes are on it, but we have a great team. I feel really confident about the team. And again, a year into it, I think the riskiest part is the design. Right. That all the assumptions you made, are they going to, you know, prove to be correct? And I mean, obviously you got to build it in. That part is not an easy task. But I think a large portion of the risk was, hey, what assumptions did you make at bid time and are they materializing? And again, so far, so good there. Now you got to get out there and build it. The risk there obviously is, I mean, you got to do quality work. There's a tremendous amount of money that we're getting paid. The other part of that job is that we have to do quality assurance, quality control. So yes, the DOT has a consultant and they're there to verify, but you're in essence doing quality control and quality assurance with other firms to make sure that, you know, that you're not cutting any corners or whatever the case, you might want to call it, that the work you're producing is to the highest standard. So some risk in that side, but hopefully again, nothing that we don't experience on a $20 million or $40 million jobs, just at a much greater scale.
- [37:23]
Aaron
Yeah, it's still building the road.
- [37:24]
Matt
That's right. That's right.
- [37:26]
Aaron
You know what's funny is these, these big jobs too. I see online you were talking about just kind of the everyday person, they don't understand how this stuff works and it's not their fault.
- [37:36]
Matt
Right.
- [37:36]
Aaron
It's not explained anywhere.
- [37:38]
Matt
Sure.
- [37:40]
Aaron
Just how much criticism there is sometimes on these projects. Yes. And I see all the time, like there'll be these big highway projects and they'll be talking about online. I love looking at comments. I think comments are very telling.
- [37:52]
Matt
Without a doubt.
- [37:54]
Aaron
Sometimes they're hilarious. They really are really, really clever people.
- [37:59]
Matt
Oh, absolutely. The comments are hilarious and then the responses to the comments are hilarious. And I mean, people, like, used to be people were like, kind to each other. I mean, now, you know, they hide behind the screen. I mean, they're ruthless, man.
- [38:11]
Aaron
Ruthless. But some of them are really funny.
- [38:14]
Matt
Oh, they're hilarious.
- [38:14]
Aaron
So one, hilarious. But two, it's like you can. I use them also to gauge the temperature and it's not, it's not perfect, but you can, you can understand. And I feel like people, it's. I think it's a problem. People are very jaded post 2020.
- [38:29]
Matt
Yes.
- [38:29]
Aaron
Very jaded about everything. And infrastructure is like the very physical government spend, like sometimes really the only major government spend that the average person will interact with.
- [38:45]
Matt
Sure.
- [38:46]
Aaron
And some of the frustration and some of like the man, all these people are getting rich. Construction.
- [38:54]
Matt
It's like.
- [38:55]
Aaron
Or, or like what they say about the company, company owners. And it's like, I. I haven't found any of those guys. Right. Maybe they exist. Right.
- [39:05]
Matt
But it's so jaded. Right. I mean, it's just. And I mean, if it's, you know, social media, everything's true in social media. So if somebody reads it, they just assume that that's a fact. And I mean, again, it can be, you know, I mean, you can go in two directions. You can let it get to you and get frustrated, or you can kind of just laugh and say, hey, unfortunately, they just don't have an understanding of really what goes into. I mean, to your point, you know, the Matthews family is putting a lot on the table to go do this job. And in our industry, as pretty much most of your listeners know, it's like the margins are not, I mean, what you would think for that kind of risk. Right. I mean, I don't know what other industry takes as many risk as ours does for the returns that come out of it. So, you know, it's education. It's things like what you're doing and, you know, and if projects are going well, then you know, it also helps you, I mean there's, you know, there is some good publicity on projects when you're completing them on time and within budget. And you know, you treat public. I mean one of the things on this job, I mean we're a lot, there'll be a lot of, you know, social media and just a lot of marketing communication about what's going on and when the pro, when certain lanes are going to be closed and that sort of thing. Because obviously you want the public to you know, at least tolerate because you. We're going to be out there for five years. So.
- [40:35]
Aaron
Yeah, I, and, and, but this is something we still struggle with. I remember we were on a site visit last summer in Denmark at a tunnel. Big, big, big time, like mega project. And the guy, he was head of media, he was just happy to have us out there. And it was, it was really interesting. It was a different dynamic because they own the project, this big government agency. So they're the owner, they're the dot in the case. But they, before our visit they're like, we have to go talk to the contractor about this and we need to make sure the contractor is okay with this. So it's just a very, it's a different culture and it's very like partner based which I think the United States could learn from. But he was also very confused that we struggle to get access to some of these projects which we still do to this day. I mean it's just brutal. And he's like, why wouldn't you want to talk about it? Like, like what do lose? Why wouldn't we want to be engaging more with the public? And it's like the public is the customer.
- [41:40]
Matt
Sure.
- [41:40]
Aaron
Like the motorist, the parent in their car with their kids. Absolutely, that's the customer. So shouldn't we be serving them and involving them in the process? Aren't they the key stakeholder here? And I, I see these projects, some of them are great with their communication. Other times, and I think it's. The majority of the industry still is still just very traditional. And it's like we're just gonna build the damn road.
- [42:13]
Matt
Get out of our way.
- [42:14]
Aaron
Get out of our way. Like we don't want any trouble. We just wanna, I mean like a major contractor, Major contractor recently said, nope, we have a media policy, corporate policy. We don't allow outside media at all.
- [42:30]
Matt
And it's like that makes no sense.
- [42:33]
Aaron
It doesn't make any sense.
- [42:34]
Matt
Again, it's so frustrating. You know when you're, when it, it's only gonna help. It's back to the point we were making earlier about just, you know, communicating with your employees and the public. I mean, yes, if you're being upfront and say, hey, this, this project, it's gonna suck. You're gonna be in traffic for the next four years. Yeah, this is what we're gonna do. This is what it's gonna look like at the end. You'll be happy with the product. And by the way, let us know, you know, how we can improve. I think that just earns a lot of respect for us. It's so important because it's not like we're coming in from another state or country or whatever to build one project and leaving. I mean, this is where our people live. It's where we live. So it's important to have that kind of communication. I mean, obviously there's going to be people that are going to get upset and things won't go perfect, but if you deal with them with transparency and kind of keep the public informed and I will say talking. You made the comment about partnership. So one of the requirements for this project is that we have to find an office where we are in the same building with the DOT next to each other. So there's partnering meetings, there's a lot of communication going on. The teams are specific to that project. They're not working on other DOT projects or whatever the case may be. So, so far, so good in that area in that there's a lot of conversations, kind of shared goals of completing the project on time. It's a good way to do it. To your point, other countries have done this very successfully. If you can be on the same page as a dot in the good times on the project, or when there's issues and you're kind of dealing with them together instead of pointing fingers, then the project's going to be more successful.
- [44:23]
Aaron
But that goes back to the leadership skills we were talking about earlier. It's just like I see this all the time. You see the ego gets involved. I mean, egos everywhere in construction. But like, yeah, you. You end up on. On different pages than the DoT or the customer, whoever. But it's like, wait, wait, so what's your goal here? To build the job on time and on budget.
- [44:47]
Matt
Right.
- [44:48]
Aaron
What's. What's your goal here? To build the job on top with it. So why are we arguing?
- [44:52]
Matt
Why are we arguing? And I mean, we had a little small item come up already on this job, and that was a conversation. It's like, I mean, let's just read the contract. We both agree on what we want, want to advance the project. And when everybody thinks that way, then, you know, you come up to reasonable and quick solutions rather than, like you said, getting in a ton of arguments and pointing fingers and all that. In some of these large jobs, I mean you can read about them ENR and a lot of other places they haven't gone well, they go so far. So you know, it's important to get kicked, kicked off in a good way. And with that mindset, like you said, hey, we have a common goal. Let's try to make this happen.
- [45:34]
Aaron
So there. Well, and that's another thing. When projects go south, then people don't like talking about them as well. Especially like governments even. Oh, brush it under the rug like no, no, no, don't talk about it. I read a phenomenal book called How Big Things Get Done. If you haven't read it, I have not 10 out of 10 would recommend it. These guys that have studied mega projects, okay, that's their study globally. Just mega projects and why they almost always go way over budget and way over schedule.
- [46:08]
Matt
I'm reading it on the way back.
- [46:11]
Aaron
It's brilliant. It is.
- [46:13]
Matt
How big projects get done.
- [46:15]
Aaron
How big things get done.
- [46:16]
Matt
How big things get done.
- [46:18]
Aaron
I'll send you the exact book.
- [46:19]
Matt
But.
- [46:22]
Aaron
It'S all about how these projects go terribly wrong and what they've learned as a result and what you can do to avoid that. But it's really interesting. Like you think at the scale. Well, of course they're going to get it right. But it doesn't take all that much to then just derail. Yeah. Just veer into this wild. And he was talking about it how like once it starts to go down that path, it almost becomes a self fulfilling prophecy because they don't want to. You don't want to talk about, you don't want, you don't want to acknowledge that it's not going well. So. But then you have to acknowledge it to fix. Like we're doing this within our company right now. We're having to say things, some things out loud within these meetings that are not fun to say. But it's like, but it's almost a relief to put them out there.
- [47:13]
Matt
Sure.
- [47:14]
Aaron
Because it's. Because it's the truth.
- [47:16]
Matt
Sure.
- [47:17]
Aaron
And you can't solve the problem until you acknowledge the problem. But it's so human nature. Like it's so tempting to dance around it or to ah, it's not that bad. Or oh well, but, but, but XYZ.
- [47:35]
Matt
Or Point fingers at someone else. Right. Normally when things start going down, the everybody's trying to find, well, who's guilty instead of, like, getting in the middle of it and trying to fix it.
- [47:46]
Aaron
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [47:47]
Matt
But it's all these big jobs. I mean, you see the claims. I mean, when you read all these articles, the claim with the owner and all that. So I mean, it just. It turns into a legal battle rather than building a project. And I mean, the focus is elsewhere.
- [47:59]
Aaron
Which disappoints me, though, because again, the consumer, the end user, they're the one that they lose. Like the legal community, they win. Oh, good for them. But like, you've already talked about how dots, they have a budget.
- [48:15]
Matt
Right.
- [48:15]
Aaron
You can't exceed that budget.
- [48:17]
Matt
Right.
- [48:17]
Aaron
And so if more of that budget's going to the legal community and not work for us infrastructure, it's less work for you, and it's less infrastructure for the community. And then it degrades the community because.
- [48:29]
Matt
And it degrades the industry because the taxpayer, the traveling public is not happy because the project took twice as long as it should have. So, I mean, it all snowballs and then those kind of cases.
- [48:41]
Aaron
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's. There's a project on the west coast right now. It's like, it's so clearly a, like the biggest infrastructure failure in United States history. How much they've spent on it and how little has been achieved. It's wild.
- [48:59]
Matt
Rail project.
- [49:00]
Aaron
It's a rail project. Yeah, but, you know, it's west of the Mississippi. I'll leave it at that. Yes, but it's just. It's bad.
- [49:08]
Matt
I mean, it's bad for everybody, right?
- [49:09]
Aaron
It's so bad. But. But you see that. Like, but no one wants to own up to it. And the answer, like, especially the politicians, like, we just need more money.
- [49:19]
Matt
Right.
- [49:19]
Aaron
We just need to keep building it. And it's like, at what point do you say, hey, this is not working, exactly? And you just see them getting deeper and deeper into it, and you're like.
- [49:31]
Matt
Oh, my gosh, it's awful.
- [49:34]
Aaron
Yes.
- [49:34]
Matt
And again, it puts black eye on the whole industry. Right?
- [49:37]
Aaron
It does, yeah. Yeah. And it's like, okay, that contractor's, you know, getting more work, but. But I think that contractor loses big picture as well, because it's like, cool, you're getting work here, but now you're not able to build other things that are actually necessary within that market. And it's. From my perspective, it's so interesting to watch.
- [49:56]
Matt
It really is.
- [49:57]
Aaron
I don't have a horse in the race. I just spectate from the outside with some insider knowledge.
- [50:05]
Matt
But having you traveled and seen all these big projects, you know what a successful looks project looks like. And then you have something like that that kind of, I mean in the energy and you know, that takes away from, from other projects to your point or you know, the industry, the funding and all that is significant.
- [50:23]
Aaron
Well, it's. And it's. I'm 30, I'm still naive. Like I'm not far enough along where I still have a. Like my ignorance is waning but I still have enough of it to be very much glass half full. And it's like I want to believe that infrastructure is just for the common good of society and is not a political ploy.
- [50:50]
Matt
Don't give up on that. I'm like you, I'm a lot older. But I want to believe that it is and for most of the time it works. You know, obviously you only hear these, about these bad jobs nobody ever calls about, you know, the project that's going well or very few people highlighted. That's why I love what you do. But, but you're right, I mean it does kind of make you think man. It's just, I mean that's a prime example. It's turned into a political well and.
- [51:18]
Aaron
It'S just like yeah just like why can't we just build infrastructure? Because it's best for our sure people our economy and like, like isn't high quality infrastructure. Like why is that an argument anywhere?
- [51:32]
Matt
Right?
- [51:32]
Aaron
Like shouldn't we all be on the same page of that?
- [51:35]
Matt
I mean it's a great investment. You're employing people, you're obviously getting a product at the end of it. So it should be. And it.
- [51:44]
Aaron
Well and I mean and just the future like you've kids like the quality of their future is dictated by the quality of infrastructure. Without a doubt it, it doesn't get more fundamental than that. So it's like if we want to go build a better future, we need better infrastructure. And it's frustrating sometimes to see how spectacular and it's kind of a flawed perspective, kind of not. But it's like I was Jakarta, I'm in their airport. It's one of the most extraordinary airports I've ever been in. In Jakarta. I wasn't expecting that. I was expecting not one of the, you know, like maybe one of the lesser airports in the United States like that level. And I fly out of this just beautiful air. Everything about it is gorgeous. And it's even designed Better because when you get off the plane you go to a different level so the people getting off aren't going through the terminal.
- [52:50]
Matt
That's awesome.
- [52:50]
Aaron
It's like, it's even like just designed better and you just, you're looking at them like that makes perfect sense. Why haven't and international does that but domestic, we don't do that here. This was domestic. Everybody goes, everybody's channeled different directions. And then I fly back into the States and I fly into Chicago o' Hare and I'm just like, oh man.
- [53:16]
Matt
It blows my mind. Like why are we, why aren't we doing these things? Right? I mean, shouldn't we have the best airports? Absolutely, absolutely. Absolutely. But I think as you get trapped in these again, political things and thinking that, you know, we do it best and we, we can learn from a lot of other people.
- [53:34]
Aaron
Yeah, yeah. There is some hubris, like the American hubris that is worth better than everybody. And I think construction, you mentioned it too, how you're looking beyond construction for inspiration. I think that's essential. I think construction's the industry because it's so. I don't blame anybody. It's so competitive.
- [53:55]
Matt
Yes.
- [53:55]
Aaron
Everybody's out to slit your throat every day of the week.
- [53:59]
Matt
Right.
- [53:59]
Aaron
And you've just, I mean you eat what you kill.
- [54:02]
Matt
Yes.
- [54:02]
Aaron
And there's not a lot in the woods. So.
- [54:05]
Matt
Yes.
- [54:05]
Aaron
I mean it is, it is an all out brawl. And so you can't afford to look up and out.
- [54:12]
Matt
Right.
- [54:12]
Aaron
Because you're, you're, you're just, you're fighting for your life every day of the week. Which I get. But then you're, you're trapped by. All you're doing is just comparing yourself to the other names on that bid list.
- [54:26]
Matt
And it's flawed.
- [54:28]
Aaron
It's flawed. Yeah. Because then it's, it kind of in a way becomes this rat race. And, and while, and, and we're innovation.
- [54:37]
Matt
And some things like that are not always recognized. That's why I do like the whole design Bill. Especially when you have more. This component of what do you bring to the table, not only in price. Price has to obviously be a factor and be reasonable, but what innovation can you bring, what ideas? Instead? The unfortunate part, and this is the world we live in, is the low bid process. It's all about installing widgets faster than the next person. And when you get into those kind of scenarios, then you miss out on coming up with ideas of creating an airport like you just described.
- [55:15]
Aaron
Yeah. And does it really end up being low bid at the End of the day.
- [55:19]
Matt
Not always. Does change order thing? Absolutely.
- [55:22]
Aaron
Yeah. Probably in a lot of cases.
- [55:23]
Matt
Or does it get billed on time? You know, it's easy to be the low bidder. It's hard to finish it on time and within budget. And then again, just having where the taxpayer and the owner, whether it's the DOT or public agency is happy when you get done with the work, it's.
- [55:41]
Aaron
The qualifications based stuff. It's a double edged sword. I think it's great. But then there's also the downside that is, well, if it, I mean, it's great for C.W. matthews because you have the resume for it. But if I want to start Aaron Witts Road building tomorrow.
- [56:01]
Matt
It's true. That's true. We kind of see it with the bigger guys than us.
- [56:05]
Aaron
Right.
- [56:06]
Matt
I mean, that is the concern a little bit. Is this just a beauty contest or is it really, you know. Sure. Look at like I've always said, well, you know, it should, there should be a component of. Look at the past 10 jobs that contractor has built, that we have built. And just look at, you know, have the jobs been completed on time? Is the owner happy? I would like to see more of that then. Then it really turn into, you know, it's a big name, a big national, international name. Because then it could go the other way and I could see smaller contractors saying that about us. So I think the best way to do that, I've mentioned it to owners in the past is like, hey, check references. Look at actual past history. How many have ended up in litigation, how many finished on time and then base part of your score on that. And then I think you would be making the right decision. But it is hard. It is hard to do well.
- [57:02]
Aaron
But it's interesting even. Yeah. From your perspective, it's like there's only so many design bid or design build jobs in the state of Georgia.
- [57:09]
Matt
Right.
- [57:09]
Aaron
And there's never been one that's exceeded a billion dollars.
- [57:12]
Matt
Sure.
- [57:12]
Aaron
But then you could be Mr. Big Time Contractor 1, 2, 3. With, you know, 13 jobs. Because you work in all 50 states.
- [57:20]
Matt
Yes.
- [57:21]
Aaron
You know, 13 of them. It's like. And.
- [57:23]
Matt
And your resume looks better and they.
- [57:26]
Aaron
Make it really pretty.
- [57:27]
Matt
Yes. Yeah. So then like ask questions, go look to see how have this jobs really turned out. Talk to the other owners. You know, I think that would be a better way of possibly doing it.
- [57:38]
Aaron
Yeah, yeah. It's. I think where the industry really starts to get trapped is in workforce and labor because I think contractors, again, because of this hyper competitive world, they Think they're competing with those on the bid list for people. But that's just not how the labor market works anymore.
- [58:00]
Matt
You are exactly correct.
- [58:01]
Aaron
You're competing within the labor market.
- [58:04]
Matt
Yes, with other industries in Georgia.
- [58:06]
Aaron
I mean, Georgia is very competitive. You've got the, the entire entertainment industry now. You've got Home Depot headquartered there, Chick Fil A headquartered.
- [58:17]
Matt
I mean just Delta, Delta, all the large power companies. And now you've got all the big vehicles. You got Rivian, you got Hyundai, you got all the battery plants, Amazon you.
- [58:32]
Aaron
Do on every street corner.
- [58:33]
Matt
But you know, and I don't know if that the market's changed, obviously. I know you know this. We, we focus on the high school side. The market, even with all that's going on right now is actually pretty good. I mean we are, we've been able to attract, we are focusing like we've discussed in the past on the high school students graduating. We've got some in work based learning, some that have come up after high school with us and the whole state. I mean, what a great job the industry has done. In Georgia, there's now 25 high schools with construction programs, with simulators. Just this past week there was a train the teacher symposium that was done by all contractors coming together to do that. So it's not just us, it's not just, you know, our competitors, it's everybody working together with this idea that, hey, all these graduating, I mean there's over 600 students right now in these programs. We just hired 22 of them. So it really is solving the workforce for our industry. But like you said, we're losing very few people to our competitors. If anything, it's to other industries that are coming in and attracting, whether it's compensation or benefits or whatever the case may be. But we're sort of continuing to focus on that, focusing that. And at one time, you know, it was like five or six schools. Now that's up to 25. And man, it's an amazing program.
- [60:11]
Aaron
What's the sell to high school students? Because if you were to ask the everyday person, they'd be like, well one, no kids want to work anymore and who wants to work construction? Construction sucks.
- [60:22]
Matt
Yes.
- [60:23]
Aaron
And every kid's going to college, so you can't get high schoolers anyway.
- [60:27]
Matt
That's what you'll hear, but that's not what we're seeing or experiencing. So one is, I mean one just simple factor is that college has gotten very expensive. So not every family can afford that or the student's going to get in huge debt. So, I mean, I think that's somewhat of a selling point. We are seeing a little bit of. Of a change, transformation and that parents, you know, are starting to say, hey, you know, the traits are. That's a good opportunity. You should explore the trades. I love hearing that. Right. I mean, nothing against college. My kids have gone to college. But, you know, we're all given different gifts. And there's plenty of people that, you know that the trades are where their gifts are. So what we're seeing is, again, people like yourself, the industry in Georgia, it's just highlighting that, hey, this can be a great career. And then for us, it's become a little bit easier because now we can give actual examples of a. Here are these four young men that graduated from high school, and now they're foremen for us. This is what they're getting compensated. They drive a vehicle, they have their own family. So the story is actually becoming easier to tell because there's now examples.
- [61:46]
Aaron
More data.
- [61:46]
Matt
Yeah, more data. And. And then I think, you know, this whole idea of these young people don't want to work, I mean, it's baloney. It's like, man, there's some. Some of these young guys are amazing. I mean, they want to work. They're, you know, I was, I was. One of the young guys, goes to the. The same church I go to. And I mean, you know, I mean, he's. He's been at work since 4am Dirty. And I'm talking to him. I mean, he's dusty from head to toe. And his comments are, I love doing this. You know, I appreciate the opportunity. Like, you know, they see that there is a bright future that financially they can do well if they stick with it. Now, is it hard? Sure. Is it long hours, hot? You know, all those things. I think we're trying to. And we're doing a better job of just kind of just putting it all out there. Before, I think companies used to sugarcoat, oh, come work for us is a great thing to do. Now we're more taking the approach of a. It's hard. You know, it's long hours, it can be nights, it can be weekends, you know, but these are some of the things that you can accomplish. And to have, you know, a foreman at 22 or 23 leading other young men. And now we're seeing them mentor others, and our foreman and superintendents are buying in and they're, you know, they see that, hey, this is the future. This is how the company started, you know, 70 some years ago. So let's spend the time. Let's not just throw up our hands and say, oh, it's just another young kid. It's like, invest in them, because we need the workforce to continue to come in and so that you have opportunities for you to move up and more people are buying into that, and it's really working.
- [63:26]
Aaron
How many high school kids have you hired at this point?
- [63:28]
Matt
Oh, my goodness. I would say we're probably. I mean, in total, we're probably close to 200. Wow. Yes. So not all of them are there. We have also changed a little bit of that. We're bringing them in and kind of. Of letting them explore a little bit, try them out before we make a final. Like, okay, we're gonna spend a ton of time. But. But, you know, like I said, the 22 that just came just came on this summer full time. I mean, I was talking to. We do a big event and bring their families in and talking to some of them and their parents. I mean, there's some quality, quality folks there.
- [64:08]
Aaron
Sure. Yeah.
- [64:10]
Matt
I'm excited about the future. I mean, I think it can happen. Right. We just got to invest in them and make sure they feel like they're cared for so that they'll stick around.
- [64:20]
Aaron
Yeah. And that. I'm like, I heard somebody talk about this the other day. In a way, it's like, you either have to convince people or challenge people. And it's. It's frustrating. Like, I've tried the convincing thing. The convincing things, not that's. It doesn't work out very well. And so, like, I'm not the biggest fan. There's some great, great associations out there, et cetera. I'm just. I'm not the biggest fan of. Of just the traditional mindset in the construction industry, where it's like, let's all just get together on the golf course, pat each other on the back.
- [65:05]
Matt
We're all.
- [65:06]
Aaron
We're all rich. Like, we're. We're doing great. We're retiring in a few years. Life's good. And then that's that. It just. To me, it, like, it bums me out because it's like, what's the point?
- [65:18]
Matt
Right?
- [65:19]
Aaron
Like, what. Why. Why wouldn't you guys be working harder than ever to ensure the future is good to go? Like, what? Like, aren't. Aren't you guys the ones that are supposed to be figuring this out and solving this problem? Like, instead, it's just like, well, that's.
- [65:38]
Matt
That it's so frustrating. Or comments like, well, nobody wants to work. Nobody Wants to do that. It's so frustrating. I mean, it really is.
- [65:47]
Aaron
Well, and it's frustrating to me because these are the people that are oftentimes in the way, like, they're the ones telling me no.
- [65:55]
Matt
Right.
- [65:55]
Aaron
And it's like, can you just, like, you believe what you want to believe, but when you're standing in the way of, like, when you're impeding progress, that has to happen at some point. Like, it's going to happen when you're impeding. Really frustrates me. It really, really frustrates me.
- [66:18]
Matt
Yeah. And creates a story that's not factual. Right.
- [66:21]
Aaron
So.
- [66:22]
Matt
Which hurts our industry. Instead of, like, you're saying kind of focusing on, hey, this is a solution for the future, you know, let's stop talking about, you know, what can't be done. Or, I mean, it's. It's. And it re. Energizes the industry. I mean, to see these many young people coming in. Everybody talks about, well, you know, what's the future going to look like? And all these people are retiring. If anything. You know, one of the great things about us having the opportunity to grow some is that now there's more opportunities for these young people to move into the next level. Because if anything, what I've seen is not that they don't want to work, is that, hey, you better be ready to provide them opportunities. The old. You got to work in this industry for 20 years before you can be the next foreman or superintendent. I do think that those days are gone. Right. You got to be able to give opportunities as soon as these young people are ready. And that's, if anything, that's a challenge. And I love that challenge. Like, that we're battling some of that. It's like, okay, we got several folks that are ready for this next step, and how do we provide that fast enough so they don't get kind of down in the dumps because they don't have that next opportunity.
- [67:41]
Aaron
Yeah, but it's like, I think you guys are doing some of the best work in this category in the industry. But at the same time, it's like, what choice do you have? Sure, yes, I want to pat you guys on because we deserve it. But then at the same time, it's like, it's what you're supposed to be doing.
- [68:03]
Matt
Patting on the back doesn't do anything. I mean, I appreciate it, but no, what we need is who's going to run this paver in two years and who's going to be the next superintendent or bridge or build this Bridge. When we're growing and you're doing a billion dollar job, like you need some people to build this thing.
- [68:19]
Aaron
Yeah.
- [68:20]
Matt
So if we're not developing, then we're going to die. So, yeah, it sounds great. It's, you know. No, we need it to survive because if we're not bringing them in, not recruiting them. And again, the great thing at a young age is that, you know, they're willing to learn and they're asking questions and all that. It's not somebody that has already spent, you know, half of their life in another industry and are having to restart. I mean, and again, that is one option. We just haven't found that to be the best option. So, yeah, I'm super excited about that portion. Now these big jobs come into the area. I mean, does that lend itself to people trying to take your folks away? Yeah, but if you take care of them, hopefully they're not going to leave us for a quarter or 50 cents because they've seen we've invested them, I mean, at two high school full time high school recruiters that are not only bringing them in, but then they're, you know, spending time with them and with the foreman. And again, probably the best thing, I mean, although those two guys are doing an awesome job, what I'm seeing is the whole group, like the foreman, the superintendent, they're now, that took a while, but they're now buying in and saying, hey, to your point, I don't want to pat him back. It's just that I need somebody that's going to show up every day and give me all they have. And they're seeing that these young people, these young men and women are doing that. So now they're buying in and excited about bringing more in.
- [69:50]
Aaron
Sure. But that, and that's a good point too is that you all have invested in this. You have high school recruiters that are focused on developing relationships with these high schools.
- [70:01]
Matt
We do. And you know, somebody maybe that's a smaller company or whatever, I mean, you gotta come up with your own method. But to me, it's like you pay an outside recruiter, you know, 25% of somebody's salary or 20% to bring one person in. You know, that adds up quickly. These guys are full time, they're looking for these young men and women and I mean, the dividends, I mean, they're doing an awesome job.
- [70:30]
Aaron
What do you go to these high school career fairs?
- [70:34]
Matt
I went to our signing day which happened last week and you know, we give them the jerseys, bring their families up we kind of recognize them. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I mean, I love, I love that part.
- [70:45]
Aaron
What do you, what do you, how do you pitch?
- [70:48]
Matt
I pitch this to a high school kid. Well, I pitched the whole idea. You know, at that point, they've kind of committed to work for us. They've been with us. Some are working their senior year and going to school. They're doing both under the work based learning. And then we have, you know, I mean, our group meets with them while they're in school once a year and kind of just talk about what's going on in the company. Obviously we give them access to the podcast and everything else we're doing, but the pitch kind of when they're coming on is kind of what we just talked about. It's like, hey, not sugarcoating it, just going, hey, there's going to be a day in the next six months that you're going to get home. Mom, dad, listen to this too. They're going to come home and they're going to say, this is not for me. I'm out. This is hard. The foreman was a jerk to me. He cussed me out. I said, just give it one more day. You know, just wake up tomorrow and go again. And I promise you, if you stick with it now, you gotta love it. Like, if you like seeing these machines run and you like the atmosphere and all that, if you don't like it, then, you know, we want you to be happy. Don't stay with us. But if you see, hey, we all have bad days, then stick with it and the opportunities are going to be there. And then we, and like I said, I talked to them about just the power of just having a positive attitude, like, go grab that old motor grader guy or that foreman, if you really go to him and say, will you teach me how to read these plans or how to lay something out or how do you do X? Even though they might seem a little rough around the edges, they're going to take you on and invest in you. That's what we're asking them to do. They're buying in. And, and like I said, the success rate, the retention is improving because, you know, they feel like they're cared for. And yeah, we're not sugarcoating it is tough, but you're going to have some good opportunities. And it seems to be working. It seems to. And again, it's not just about, like patting ourselves on the back. It doesn't matter how many school students we bring in, it's how many are still there. And how many are moving up the ranks to be the Future Foreman Superintendents, VPs, whatever the case may be.
- [73:01]
Aaron
But some of them have done really well.
- [73:03]
Matt
They've done awesome. There's. There's four. Four guys that are. That are killing it. And, I mean, some of them will get an opportunity to move up even, and then a bunch right behind them. So. So, yeah, no, it's been. It's been really good.
- [73:16]
Aaron
Yeah, it's like, to the. To the old timers credit, too, I've. I've never really had a problem with the. With the older guys. Like, you just. You can't take it personally because some of them are rough around the edges or some of them are irritable or whatever it is. But, like, I mean, I've had, like, maybe like, two bad experience. Of the thousands of people I've met on job sites now, I've had, like, two bad experiences.
- [73:45]
Matt
Without a doubt. I think the bad experience comes if you. If they come in, we tell them. They. If you pretend to know it all. If you don't show up to work on time, those things are gonna probably get you in a little bit of trouble, and it should. But if you're there and you're showing up early and you're asking that foreman, during the lunch break or at the end of the day, will you spend a little bit of time? And he sees that you care, I mean, 90% of them are gonna be like, absolutely, because I'm in. Our point to the foreman, they know this. It makes their life a little bit easier. They don't have to be running, doing three people's jobs. They can back off and kind of see the bigger picture, which is really what we need them to be doing.
- [74:26]
Aaron
Well, you can, like, the pride is substantial within this world, and you can almost. You can leverage the pride people have to your advantage. Because everybody wants to talk about what they do.
- [74:39]
Matt
Sure.
- [74:41]
Aaron
But it's not manipulation. It's like. It's earnest questions. Can you just explain to me what the heck you're doing and why it's. Unless it's like, really obviously the wrong time. Like, you've got 10 trucks on the street and something's wrong with the screen. Like, yeah, there's. You got to read the room. But I mean, if it's. If it's. You know, with that rare exception again, I've just. I've never had a problem where somebody's like, no, I don't want to explain something. I mean, it's. It actually amazes me how much time People spend with us and even outside of people will be like, oh well it's because you're in this position now. But when I was a kid out on, on the job site at 18, 19, 20, just asking simple questions like that, it was just incredible how much people would offer me.
- [75:33]
Matt
I agree. I mean that's what helped me. And I still continue to ask. I mean if there's areas that I don't know, I'm going to go ask. Sure. It's like, hey, why did we do this? Or you know, I mean, and like you said 9 out of 10 times, people want to show you what they do. They have pride in what they do and they're, they, and they want to help these young, young people. I mean, and again, I mean I, I've shared with them and I really believe they, it's like what legacy are gonna, are you gonna leave behind? Like nobody's gonna remember what project you built unless it went really bad. What they're gonna remember is kind of the impact you had in those young people. And, and we highlight them. I was telling you the story about our asphalt plant foreman. We had another foreman the other day. I mean they're going to these kids graduations. I mean nobody's asking them to do that. They're forming these relationships. They go, the ones that have been working, work based learning. The foreman's going to their graduation. We had a picture this week on social media that the young man's like on the shoulders of the foreman at his graduation. It's like, man, when you see that, it's like, man, it's, I mean, what better feeling? It's just awesome to see that, you know, there's friendships being formed. That yeah, the people are caring for each other is. I mean to me that's what it's about.
- [76:48]
Aaron
But that, but, and that's what I mean. A lot of people talk about the jobs, but it's like a job's a job. That's like the legacy is the people you leave behind and that's. And it's the information you leave and the lessons you leave behind too. And that's something that we, that troubles me is there's just, there's a lot of knowledge just leaving and once it leaves it just, it's not written down anywhere. It just evaporates and it's like, it's almost like why'd you spend those 40 years? Because that wasn't an easy 40 years.
- [77:24]
Matt
Right?
- [77:24]
Aaron
That was a hard. You learned some lessons, man. Like you touched some stoves, let Me tell you without a doubt, like. Like, why not hand all that off? Why not. Why not make that concerted effort to give it to as many. This is where it's such a shame. Like, where that pride and ego comes into play. And especially there's, like, there is to the resentment from the older generation because they did have to do the 10 or 20 years, like, on the back of the paver before they had the opportunity to move into Foreman. But it was just a different time.
- [77:58]
Matt
It was.
- [77:58]
Aaron
And it doesn't. It's not better or worse. It's just different now. But they're. I've seen it, like, they're sometimes resentful that, well, they need to do their time. It's like, so you're gonna, like, you're just gonna withhold all this information or these lessons, or you're not gonna invest in the next generation or you're not gonna, like, build your legacy because. Because of that. Like, that's the Hang up here. Come on. Like, let's.
- [78:29]
Matt
Yeah. What a shame if that's what's happening, and it does happen. But, yeah, if you can. Again, if you can look at yourself in the mirror and say, look at all these people that I brought with me and that are now successful or getting opportunities. Like, man, what a. What a great legacy you can leave behind. Huge opportunities for that.
- [78:53]
Aaron
It's. It's really cool. The signing day you guys do. Was it all 20 something kids?
- [78:57]
Matt
Yeah, 22nd. 22 at this one. Yeah.
- [79:00]
Aaron
Is that the biggest group you've brought in?
- [79:02]
Matt
You know, I think it has been. I mean, we've. We've had some pretty big ones, but I think that's probably the largest group we've had.
- [79:08]
Aaron
And then they're just scattered across the company.
- [79:10]
Matt
Different divisions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Grading bridge. We have quite a few there. Or asphalt plants. Division does great with it because stationary, during school, they can go to one place. The workplace learning is easier there. Whereas an asphalt paving crew is, you know, they can be here today, in a different place tomorrow. But on the grading side, bridge and asphalt plants, where we're doing the majority of it, and it's working out great.
- [79:41]
Aaron
Okay. It's interesting with all this stuff how I know, like. Like, you know, some people might be like, how many people does CU Matthews have?
- [79:49]
Matt
We're right at 1900.
- [79:51]
Aaron
1900? Yes.
- [79:54]
Matt
Whoa.
- [79:54]
Aaron
I would have said 15, but I guess the acquisition was a broad.
- [79:57]
Matt
Yes, it was. It was around 300 employees. Yes.
- [80:00]
Aaron
Wow.
- [80:01]
Matt
Yes.
- [80:02]
Aaron
1900.
- [80:02]
Matt
I know. It's a lot of. A lot of families, a lot of folks.
- [80:05]
Aaron
But this is where like, I want to make this distinction, where, you know, a lot of people will be like, well, well, I'm not a 1900 person company.
- [80:15]
Matt
Sure.
- [80:16]
Aaron
Well, good for them. They've been in business 80 years. They probably have bags of money lying around the office in the cartoons, the big money sign on it, and then kind of the dollars coming out the top.
- [80:27]
Matt
Yes.
- [80:28]
Aaron
And so they can go hire these high school kids and get the simulators and invest in leadership. Good for them. Why, I can't do that. But the, the principles, like, they're, they're sound. The principles apply. You, you have to scale it up, scale it down. But the principle of investing in leadership, you can, you can scale that up, scale that down. The principle of bringing people that are not experienced, particularly these young kids.
- [81:02]
Matt
Yes.
- [81:02]
Aaron
Into the business and developing themselves, developing them as, as producing adults, producing members of society. Like, you can do that with one kid. You don't need 22. You don't need a high school signing day to do that. Like, all of this stuff is. It applies no matter what. I feel like it's universal.
- [81:23]
Matt
If anybody's listening and thinks that and they say, well, I can't do it, then, man, it would be like I would be so disappointed or devastated or whatever. Because the idea. You're right. I mean, what. But on the other hand, I think the advantage a smaller company has is if you bring one or two, you can really devote yourself to those too. Right. I mean, it's like a lot of times smaller companies can offer things. We can, because we've got 1900 employees. Right. So you can't do this for one or the other. A lot of times smaller companies can offer things. We can offer. So, yeah, I mean, I think the idea is exactly. I mean, we wanted to go back to our roots because Mr. C.W. i mean, he had an eighth grade education. He started out by bringing young people that worked hard. So that's kind of what we started thinking. It's like, hey, it worked back then, no matter the size. And again, it's just getting, you know, if you're a small company and you just have two superintendents, but they believe in the same mission, they bring two high school students in and they pour into them. To me that that is easier than when you have 1900 and you have two people kind of working on that with your HR team. So I don't think the size of the company is as important as the mission or the belief that, hey, this is how we move forward. And somebody had this really hit home for me a few years back. Somebody had sent us an old newsletter we had done and they had it in. They were cleaning out their house or whatever. And in the letter it talked about workforce and you can't find people and all that. And I'm like, we're like 30 years later and we're still talking about the same problem. Like, what are we going to do about it? And that's kind of why we've gone this direction and just poured into it. Because you can sit around and talk about nobody wants to work and the futures, the industry is terrible. Or you can do something about it after. At any level. And again, it's just the idea of whatever your values are or the culture of your company, you can do it at any size.
- [83:36]
Aaron
Yeah. And like you said, even at that smaller, like it's, it's advantageous because you can't get to everybody at your company.
- [83:43]
Matt
Exactly.
- [83:44]
Aaron
But if you're a 40 person company, you could be hands on with everybody.
- [83:48]
Matt
Without a doubt. There's other problems, but that's one thing you can definitely do, right? You know, everybody by first name. I mean, it drives me crazy. At one time, I mean, I knew everybody, Foreman's name and all that. And then recently we were, you know, once a year we get all our team together and there's a couple of guys there that I didn't recognize. And now that drives me absolutely bonkers. So without, you know, there's pros and cons on your size for many reasons, but if you have 40 or 80, then yeah, you know, you know, your entire team, you can have a more personal relation and you should use that as your strength. We utilize. The other part, I mean, which is awesome and I think it's reaffirming, is that we have a ton of family members that work within the company. So the best thing I ever see is when a dad wants his son to work there. I mean, we got a ton of that going on. That's a good sign and tells me that we're at least doing something right. We screw up plenty of things, but we have a lot of third generation in the company, a lot of siblings and parents working there in the field, in the office. So we actually encourage that because like I said, if you're a dad, you would only ask your son to come work at a place where you know that he's going to be treated well. So we want to see a lot of that.
- [85:10]
Aaron
I find that so human too. Like that's how a majority of humanity was, was you did what your parents did. Like that, that, that, that was the whole principle we evolved within. And now it's you. I mean, my parents live in Arizona. I'm here in Tennessee. I only see them a few times a year, which is wildly unnatural. Just that alone. And that's the, the parent child, like, working together, like, that's almost evaporated within modern society in the United States. But I do. It's not common in construction, but it's not rare either. Like, I, I, and I, I love if. If that's one thing I do now. If. If there's a, if there's especially like a father and son working or husband and wife or whatever it is, if there's family working together, I always ask to take their picture.
- [86:07]
Matt
That's awesome. Always.
- [86:09]
Aaron
Because it's like. And they, you know, they're always like, you know, they're construction guys and I don't want my picture taken this and that. But it's like. But I know that that will be one of the most valuable photos. And maybe not now, but I know for a fact that will be one of the most valuable photos they have.
- [86:26]
Matt
Without a doubt. I mean, how exciting.
- [86:29]
Aaron
Oh, I love it.
- [86:30]
Matt
Yes.
- [86:30]
Aaron
And it's just. Yeah, it's so. I, I. It was Father's Day not too long ago, and I went through and tried to find as many as I could, and I, like, forgot about some. And I'm like. And just looking at them, you're like, this is just so cool.
- [86:42]
Matt
Yes.
- [86:43]
Aaron
So cool. There's one on the wall out there. It's like a, it's a, it's two mechanics and the, and the son. I didn't tell them to do it, but picked up his dad and is holding his dad.
- [86:53]
Matt
I know what picture you're talking about. I haven't seen that.
- [86:56]
Aaron
And it's just so, it's just so special.
- [86:58]
Matt
It is. Caroline did that for Father's Day not too long ago. She had a ton of pictures posted that day. Kind of happy Father's Day. And it was just a reminder of how many people we have that are father and son or like I said, entire families that we have where their uncles and brothers are all working there. It's pretty neat.
- [87:21]
Aaron
Finally, I shared this morning, of all people in the world, Larry Fink is now talking about how the trades need more people. Go figure. Like Blackrock, the evil empire itself. He's the last person that would be talking about it, and he's talking about it. So there's your problem. And then, you know, I shared that and somebody commented, well, but, you know, don't you worry. There's all this conversation about AI and technology replacing people, so on and so forth and autonomous machines and, and you see these clips go. And I'm partially guilty of this where like the remote operation, it goes, it goes nuts. Like, wow, I can, you know, run an ex. Like look at this room of operators running excavators in China, you know, from their living room. He commented saying, well, you know, I think maybe people aren't getting into this because they're just going to be replaced. Do you think robots are going to be building billion dollar road jobs anytime soon? No, because it seems like you're making a pretty big bet on people.
- [88:34]
Matt
Yes, we're making a huge bet on people and I will continue to do that. Do I think that all of that has some place? Sure. I mean we, we just started recently running our first autonomous roller.
- [88:47]
Aaron
Oh sure.
- [88:47]
Matt
With blue light. Yes, with blue light. So pretty neat concept, right? So what did we do? I mean, the roller operator is now operating something else. Like, you know, we're not going to 200 of these tomorrow. We're exploring. I think it's, you know, it's important to stay in tune with all of that. Without a doubt, use technology. And you know, I keep saying like, what I really want is autonomous vehicles because for us, a lot of the crews go to the job site together. So we have vans that pick up and then they go to the job site together. Well, one of the largest safety concerns, something that worries me at times is, hey, here's this person that's worked 12 hours, 10 hours now. He's driving the whole crew home. He's tired, you know, he might have some issue at home he was dealing with last night. I say, man, if that vehicle could drive itself while there you rest, how awesome would that be?
- [89:40]
Aaron
So, or all the vehicles five feet from your paving crew?
- [89:45]
Matt
Exactly.
- [89:46]
Aaron
Middle of the night.
- [89:47]
Matt
Yes. If they weren't coming into our zone, because we have that once a month we have that. So from a safety concern, that'll be awesome the day. I mean, it's coming, right? It's not a matter of if it's coming, it's when. So I think it's a combination. But to your point, like, like, I mean, we need people. This is not going to change anytime soon. So I'm not, I'm not betting on that now again, I think a combination of exploring opportunities, creating better safety conditions for the employees, and ways to mitigate some of that I'd love to see the innovation there. And we're trying to stay up with it. It changes a lot, but, but without a doubt, you know, I'm still betting.
- [90:35]
Aaron
On people, but it's not that different from like gps. I mean.
- [90:40]
Matt
Correct. Okay, that's a great example.
- [90:42]
Aaron
GPS grader. Now, there's not a guy pounding hubs.
- [90:45]
Matt
Yes.
- [90:45]
Aaron
But pounding hubs sucks, right?
- [90:48]
Matt
That's right.
- [90:50]
Aaron
No one wants to do that.
- [90:51]
Matt
Sure.
- [90:52]
Aaron
And so, yeah, you. Okay. On paper, you put the hub pounding guy, the grade checker, out of work, but like, like no one's sitting around.
- [91:03]
Matt
You're still looking for people. Right. He just moved to a different role. If he loves construction, maybe he's now the motor grader guy because he knew how to pound steaks and he has the knowledge behind it. So. So yeah, it's. It's not going anywhere. I mean, not only in construction, I mean, plumbers, electricians, you know, I mean, it's, it's just not going to go away.
- [91:25]
Aaron
People are, people are talking about it, but I'm just. And I don't see it.
- [91:31]
Matt
I don't see it.
- [91:32]
Aaron
I mean, I've been fortunate enough to see the world's finest autonomous equipment. I've been to operations that are wholly autonomous. Everything there is autonomous. There's still a lot of people, like, there's just as many people on those operations maintaining everything to ensure the trucks can do what they need to do. But even the roller situation, it's like, like you can't automate every roller you have because you can't put an autonomous. It just wouldn't even make sense to put a autonomous roller. And, you know, just a one lane, you're doing like a turning lane, for example, and it's, you know, small area, whatever it is, like, it's, it's for, you know, larger areas and, and being on a roller, it kind of sucks. It's. It's a very important role compaction. You can't build anything without it. But no one is like thrilled to be on a roller all day.
- [92:23]
Matt
Yeah.
- [92:24]
Aaron
Especially on just a pad or something.
- [92:26]
Matt
Like that, or a small job, like you said, or rolling every day for the rest of your life. So I'm in 100% agreement with what you're saying. I think there's a place, there's another place for that person that was doing that role. And I'd love to, to see the innovation, but without a doubt, it will not take away the important role that these folks are doing. And all the. I mean, our VP over asphalt sent me a video the other day. So one of these Waymo vehicles was coming through a paving job, and the road was narrow, and the paver was kind of taking over half the road. Well, the vehicle stopped like it did not know what to do. There were people in it, and it would not go any further because the paver was blocking part of the road. So another vehicle would have just kind of gone a little bit on the curve. It didn't, which is great from a safety standpoint, but it's like. And then. So we had to pick up the paver, move it out of the way so it could go in. Well, as soon as it started traveling, we had a crew on the sidewalk. I guess it recognized them. So it went right into the hot mat where we had to roller. And I'm like, so, yes. I mean, all this will have to be modified. It's not going to take the common sense, like, hey, don't go here. Right? So in what we do, it changes every day. It's different. Especially, you know, you can use a roller compacting a pad for a building, but you put that next to the interstate or, you know, a driveway next, you're paving next to a McDonald's, and there's a thousand vehicles coming in and out of there. I think we're years from that. I don't think we should ignore it. But at the same time, I just. I think the need for our industry is going to be there for a long time.
- [94:19]
Aaron
So you're not like, rubbing your hands together like, we get to get rid of a roller operator. Oh, my gosh.
- [94:27]
Matt
We're like, okay, now we got a guy that can actually, you know, do run the doser or whatever the case may be. So. So we're just gonna move them to another spot.
- [94:37]
Aaron
Sure. Well, and that's what's funny, too. It's the. You know, I've asked everybody working around autonomous equipment, what do you think about it? Everybody likes it because the machines do what they should do, and then it allows them to go do other stuff or work in support machines or move up a little bit faster. Like it allows them to work in other parts of the. The, The. The operation? Definitely, yeah. There was a video I saw. It was a Waymo. It was in San Francisco, and it drove into a construction area, and it, it, it. The road was shut. They were doing utility work or something like that. And so it drove in slowly, like it didn't run through the site, but then it just got stuck like it didn't know what to do.
- [95:20]
Matt
That's exactly what happened in this job.
- [95:23]
Aaron
But these construction workers are like, so what do we do with it?
- [95:26]
Matt
Right. Well, some of our guys in the video, you can see, they're like, like, talking to, like, when it got close to them, they were like, whoa, whoa. Like somebody was gonna stop. So, I mean, it. You know, your mind just hasn't comprehended that, hey, yeah, this is what's gonna happen or what we're faced with. But that's hilarious.
- [95:44]
Aaron
Who do you call exactly?
- [95:45]
Matt
Exactly. I don't know if it was real. I saw one the other day where I guess the thing was speeding and a cop stopped it and there was nobody to talk to. Right. Was making a call or whatever. But, yeah, you'll have to be. You'll face some of that. It'll be interesting. I mean, I think, again, there's a place for a lot of that. I mean, we have 27 asphalt plants. Is there a day where not every plant's running every day? Could you be sitting somewhere in a more central location and run three plants at one time? Yeah, possibly. Again, I look forward to that. While at the same time. Is that plant operator going to lose his job? No, he'll. We're just going to move him to do a different role. To your point, he's either going to move up, work on the service side. He might be the guy leading that operation. I mean, who knows? But we're looking for folks all the time, so.
- [96:41]
Aaron
Well, and another point, I think the same guy made today, and I've seen this made, it drives me nuts. I feel like it misses the point of human nature, but how, like, work from home gigs are now all the rage and how everybody wants to work from home. And that's. That's a commonly held belief from the. From the older generation. Like, all these kids just want to work from home. But it's like, I just don't think. I think that is true for some, but I don't think, like, that's a large swath of the population. And I think there's an Even more so now than ever. I think it's starting to, like, the pendulum's starting to swing in the other direction of, like, well, wait a minute. I want to work with other people. I want to be outside. I want to create. I want to know, like, what I'm doing in the world. And while flexibility is important for some, I think there is especially, like, that's where the women in construction conversation gets me a little bit. It's like, women in construction, but we want them to work 80 hours a week. It's like, then just stop. Just stop the conversation right there like that. Those things don't really have a young child. Yeah. Two kids at home. It's like, sure, explain to me how that works, and then I'll get on board with it. But until you can give me a.
- [98:04]
Matt
Good explanation, it's not gonna work.
- [98:05]
Aaron
We're not talking about it. But I just think they're. There's a strong. There's a strong desire for what construction industry trades in general offers. It offers you the ability to create every day. Like we've. And I think that's where the United States has gone off course is like Post World War II, we started to become this consumption, knowledge economy. And I've thought a lot about this, where it's like the biggest industries in. In our country, they're consuming. Like, they're not. I would. I always thought, again, going back to me being Mr. Naive, that everybody that was wealthy had created stuff. They'd, like, built a company or, you know, they were really smart and did this or solved this big problem or that. But then I found out that most of the rich people are in finance or law or like these. And. And there's. There's good people in each one of those categories, but like, a vast part of those vast. Like a big part of those industries, it just consumes. It just takes. It doesn't create. It's not creating value. It's not adding to the world.
- [99:21]
Matt
Right.
- [99:22]
Aaron
Whereas construction is almost purely additive. You're. You're almost all your. It's like, by definition, what you're doing is creating value.
- [99:32]
Matt
Yes.
- [99:33]
Aaron
Unless you're building a road like the middle of nowhere.
- [99:35]
Matt
Right.
- [99:36]
Aaron
But that's not what happens. Like, all the. This is a. This is a whole world and business dedicated to creation that benefits everybody. And it's like, why wouldn't you want to. Like, there's your pitch. It's not that complicated.
- [99:52]
Matt
Yeah. I was eating lunch not long ago. I just met this gentleman. There was the chief of staff at a very large hospital system in Georgia. And just great guy. He had ascended through the ranks at the hospital, had started out doing maintenance, lawn maintenance, like, taking care of, and has moved up. And it was so neat. It was a great reminder. Not that I didn't know this, but hearing it from him, he was just sharing about the CO of the hospital and how they had grown and how he had moved up. And I was saying, like, man, your role's so important. Like, y' all at the hospital, you know, you're impacting lives, you know, making life death decisions in essence. And I mean, without missing a beat, he said Yalls role is just as important. I said, unless you're building that road to my hospital, we can bring our patients in there. And it's kind of this idea, if you can think about it as, hey, I'm just out here shoveling asphalt or dirt or running a roller. But if you look at it from that perspective, to your point is, man, what we do is just amazing. It's building, it's just changing lives. We came up with the slogan years ago with Yalls help. Is getting Georgia home, getting Florida home. Kind of this idea that, man, it's just more than just we're out here building widgets or whatever. It's. What we're doing is impactful. So I think you make such a great point in that, that it's just, it's. It's so important. And when you start seeing it that way, I mean, it changes your whole perspective. Right?
- [101:34]
Aaron
Sure.
- [101:35]
Matt
So.
- [101:35]
Aaron
Oh, it does. Yeah. Yeah. And once. But then once you see it, you can't unsee it.
- [101:39]
Matt
Right.
- [101:39]
Aaron
Wow. This is.
- [101:40]
Matt
Yeah. And the pride that then you have when you drive through the road and you tell your family, hey, sure. You know, these are always, always talking about.
- [101:47]
Aaron
They're sick of hearing you talk about it. They're rolling their eyes.
- [101:51]
Matt
You're still excited, you know, years later.
- [101:55]
Aaron
You're like, yeah, we had the paper breakdown over here, whatever. Yeah, yeah, they've heard it seven times.
- [102:01]
Matt
Yes. Yeah.
- [102:04]
Aaron
Well, excellent. Well, I, I really appreciate what you all are doing. I hear about you guys all the time. I mean, Everybody's talking about C.W. matthews.
- [102:15]
Matt
That's kind.
- [102:16]
Aaron
So, like all over the place. So people are definitely watching.
- [102:20]
Matt
That's kind. We, like I said, we. We got our problems and issues and we work just like everybody else. We just, you know, trying to focus on. On really just creating. I mentioned that the first time we met, and I think it still holds value. I on, purposely went back and on purpose went back and listened to our last episod. Sometimes I feel like, you know, were we doing the flavor of the day? Like, were we working on something that didn't last? I started thinking about that just in the last couple of days, knowing that I was come up here. And as I listened to it, I was like, man, we actually made some of these things happen. Like, we're still working on some of these things. It was kind of good for me as a reminder that, hey, because that's a fear. Sometimes it's like, well, we just, just work on this for a little bit and then we just move on to the next thing. But I think it's, that's the key is like if you're, if you're working on building good folks and in your culture, you know the values of caring for others and thinking about what you've been saying all along of building an industry in the next generation, and at the end of the day you can feel good about what you've done.
- [103:37]
Aaron
When was that?
- [103:38]
Matt
That was 22. June of 22 oh.
- [103:41]
Aaron
Three years ago.
- [103:42]
Matt
Yeah. Three years ago. Yeah.
- [103:44]
Aaron
Oh. So it has been a little bit.
- [103:45]
Matt
It has been okay.
- [103:47]
Aaron
Okay. Yeah. I guess one other thing too. It's, it's, I think it's very interesting. And it is so hot in this room.
- [103:54]
Matt
It is warm, man.
- [103:56]
Aaron
It's driving me nuts. It's like the rest of the office is freezing. Then over here, we can't make it cold. It just, just it, it's driving me nuts.
- [104:04]
Matt
I thought you were doing it to lose weight. I'm the one. For me to lose weight. You don't need to lose weight. You're running marathons. I'm just getting a podcast. Sweating like I just ran 100 miles.
- [104:15]
Aaron
No. Yeah, well, I, I'm, I'm still jet lagged from our trip and so I was up at 2:30 this morning.
- [104:22]
Matt
Oh goodness.
- [104:23]
Aaron
Two and a half hours on the bike.
- [104:25]
Matt
Oh my gosh.
- [104:25]
Aaron
This morning. Because it's like, oh, there's nothing else to do at 2:30 in the morning.
- [104:28]
Matt
Oh man, that's awesome.
- [104:30]
Aaron
I've done my show today. But I also find it really interesting. I've, I've thought a lot more about religion and the religious context of like, it's, it's so interesting how the construction industry is largely on the same page in a, like, in a. When it comes to faith. The more I've started to like, watch for it and listen and just observe. It's like everybody's kind of on the same program. I think most everybody is more quiet about it, which is why until I've started to learn about it myself and get more into it myself, I've started to like, look for it and notice it even when people aren't talking about it. But with you all, you all talk about it, which I think is pretty interesting. Has that always been the case at the company?
- [105:28]
Matt
It's not always been the case. The foundation and the Christian values have been there all along, but it's not always been talked about until. Until the past. Probably five or six years, really.
- [105:43]
Aaron
So somewhat recently.
- [105:44]
Matt
It's somewhat recent, yeah, I would say. And even till this day, like, we're not trying to push anybody per se. We just wanted to align with our values. And it's something that I think it's not easy to do because I think the importance of it is you have to. If you're going to talk about it, you have to kind of walk the talk. Right? So I think the worst thing that could happen is you're saying one thing and acting in a different way, because that'll turn people away or turn people off from it. So we are open about it, you know, that we have a company pastor, but again, we're not forcing it on everybody. We just want. I would rather somebody say, hey, what's different about them? Or what's there that maybe I don't see or I'm not missing? And then they go, oh, maybe it's the faith component then, than, you know, to necessarily. I mean, we don't have, like, a strategic plan on how we're gonna talk about faith or anything like that. It's just. And it's very interesting that the guy. That's our pastor, which I love. Todd, we were talking about this the other day, and somebody had mentioned something like there are no Christian companies. Like, a company can be Christian. Right? It's the people in the company can. So that's really more of what kind of our thought behind it is, hey, let's build great men. Women try to help him, really. His role is there to be an advisor for the foreman when he's dealing with an issue on the job where an employee just lost their child or somebody's going through a hard time. Mental health is obviously a big topic in our industry now. So it's more to be there for others when they need. When they need us. It's more about all of us kind of being on the same page, that, hey, we want to follow these principles, these values. And then, you know, if somehow. I mean, I love hearing you say that you've noticed it and that you and yourself are inquiring more about it. I mean, I think it's a personal journey that we all are in. It doesn't matter at what level it is, but if you surround yourself. I mean, I love what. What Jason is doing. I mean, he's pretty open about it, too, and that y' all have, you know, and we kind of do it the same way like y' all have in the morning session at their talk. If you want to go, great. I mean, we're not out there pushing it, but here it is. If you want to attend, go for it. And, man, I love that. Sure. And you're right. I do think that in our industry, you tend to see a lot of people that share those same values or beliefs.
- [108:45]
Aaron
I think it's a majority.
- [108:47]
Matt
Yes.
- [108:47]
Aaron
I think it's.
- [108:48]
Matt
I love that. I love that.
- [108:50]
Aaron
Yeah, I think it's a majority. I just think it's interesting how you all talk about it, which I think is really positive. Like, I think a lot of people don't. I'm guilty of that, too. Just not even talking about it from like a. Just a personal standpoint.
- [109:04]
Matt
Right.
- [109:05]
Aaron
But even I was on a paving job. It was like a pretty high profile job. I forget what street that is. But the mayor came out.
- [109:13]
Matt
Yes, yes. On DeKalb Avenue.
- [109:15]
Aaron
Yes. Yes. Yeah. DeKalb. Yeah.
- [109:16]
Matt
Yeah.
- [109:17]
Aaron
But before, before the crew got going for the evening, they were on night shift. They all prayed together.
- [109:22]
Matt
Yes. And we don't tell them to do that.
- [109:24]
Aaron
No.
- [109:24]
Matt
I mean, they do that on their own. Yeah. So that's what's awesome.
- [109:27]
Aaron
I feel like it's the only time I can think of that I've seen that on it. I may have seen it a few other times, but that's the only time I can think of right now that I've seen that. But I thought it was pretty spectacular. I was like, wow, this is. This is something else.
- [109:44]
Matt
Yes, it is. It is. It's. It's amazing to me. And I think it's at the core of, you know, why they have, for example, that crew has such a great camaraderie and union and they look after each other and, and it's kind of just basic golden rule kind of thing, just treating people with kindness and hopefully that's something that's shared among our people. And it might not have a specific name, but we tend to all share in that and the believe and the idea that caring for others and. And having faith and not being scared of sharing it will hopefully please God. And again, just. Yeah, it's unique in that we speak about it, but it's not unique in the industry. Like you said, I just encourage others to do the same. There is. I mean, when we brought the pastor on, it was a little bit of concern. I'm not going to lie. Like, is this going to, you know, some people are going to leave the company or be turned off by it or whatever. 99% of the comments that we receive from employees is like, we're so glad. I mean, he's done weddings, he's done funerals, he's been there at the hospital. But it's not only our pastor. It's not a one person job. Like, like, our whole team has kind of bought into this idea that, hey, this is who we are. And then, you know, I think, again, it's not just about words. It's about the actions. And I think it even puts more pressure on the whole team that, hey, you know, if we're saying one thing and we're behaving a different way, then the worst thing that could ever happen is that we, you know, somebody gets, you know, turns from their faith or moves away from because of something we did and don't follow what we say. And it goes into pretty much every decision we make. And at times we're making hard decisions, but kind of keeping that as our focus is important.
- [112:05]
Aaron
But it keeps you accountable too.
- [112:08]
Matt
Absolutely. Absolutely.
- [112:10]
Aaron
Well, it's like, there's no better accountability system than that.
- [112:15]
Matt
I agree 100%.
- [112:16]
Aaron
It's worked for thousands of years for a reason.
- [112:18]
Matt
Absolutely. So thankful that you brought it out. Yeah, absolutely. It does.
- [112:25]
Aaron
Awesome. Well, I appreciate you coming up here.
- [112:29]
Matt
Always love spending time with you.
- [112:30]
Aaron
Yeah. Yeah. And. And I. I do. I want to talk to you about coming down and see y', all, but we can do that after we wrap up.
- [112:38]
Matt
Awesome.
- [112:38]
Aaron
Thanks.
- [112:39]
Matt
Thank you. Appreciate it.