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Foreign. Okie dokie, everybody. Welcome back. We've got a longer episode of the Dirt Talk podcast with just me, Aaron, and we're going to talk and answer some questions that were submitted via the Internet. I don't know how many of these I'm going to get through, but we're going to have some fun today. This gives us a little bit of flexibility with our guest bookings. Nowadays, guest schedules are crazy. My schedule is crazy, making everything line up a little tricky. So to have this episode in the mix is a huge help and hopefully this helps you provides some helpful context with one or more of these questions. So to get into it, the first question that I picked and I didn't really, I basically just picked any legitimate question submitted. There was a lot of nonsense, a lot of monkey business. Go figure. Number one, what's the best way to make it into management from the field? And the traditional pathway to go into management from the field would be through construction, management through school, that's the fastest way, I would say. Or engineering, either way. Or a business degree, whatever it is. Then you go get a field, probably a field engineer internship and then that goes into probably a full time field engineer position, project engineer position. Then you can go into potentially PM type role and start working your way through the office and in whatever direction you want to you want to work through. If you're out in the field and you want to get into management and school is out of the question, I think it all starts with a conversation. I would talk to somebody in management at your company. I would either start with, you know, the project manager if there is a PM or somebody if it's a big job, you know, somebody in the office trailer. You go into the office trailer and hey, you know, my name's Aaron. What's your name? I've seen you around. Scott. Hey Scott, what do you do here? Are you project manager? You know, clarify role and hey, I'm, you know, I've been an operator for however many years and I eventually want to get into being a project manager. If you have 5 minutes, 10 minutes, or if I can come back when you do have 5, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, could we talk about what that, that might look like? If it's a bigger company, if it's a smaller company, I would go talk to someone in the office, maybe ownership, maybe anybody in leadership, project management. Estimating again to just get a feel for what it would take to get into the office and what the potential pathways are. That's best case scenario. If you like the company you work for finding a pathway, they're willing to work with you to build that pathway. It might take a while, but hopefully they do work with you to build that pathway into the office, which would be awesome. Um, and if that's not the case, for whatever reason, they either have specific job requirements for an office role, which is not all that common, or it's a small company and there's just so many positions from an office standpoint, they don't have the ability to train and develop you at the, at the present time, looking for other opportunities out into the marketplace. But you know, you can't necessarily apply cause you have that field experience. So again, I would, if I were in this position, I would be visiting construction company offices, I would be calling people, I would be messaging people on LinkedIn. I'd be going directly to the source, telling them my story, and by telling them my story, then getting in the door. Otherwise, in a more effective way than just applying online. If you're going to apply online for positions, don't expect to hear back. It's just not how the world works. So like anything else, if you want to grow, if you want to go work on something different, if you want to make more money, all of those things, a conversation is the first thing that you should do. That I would do. You have to be your best advocate. In an ideal world, the company is going to look out for you, reward you, put you on the path you want to be on without you always having to ask for it. But that's not how most of the world works. You've got to go out and get it. You've got to go out and ask for more money. You've got to go out and ask for an opportunity. You've got to go out and ask for a different role, responsibilities. You have to ask for what you want. So that would be the shortest way I could answer this question of how to get into management from the field. I would start by asking. I would start by asking. That's a great place to be. And there's pros and cons to both sides. You know, on the field it's, it's hourly management, it's salary. Typically there's again, pros and cons to that. But that could be part of the conversation that you have with whoever you talk to during those conversations as well. But you'd be amazed. People ask me all the time, how do you get all this information out of these tough guys? Or how do you go to these job sites and how does no one swear at you and kick you off, it's like. Like, well, I approach everyone with the utmost respect, humility and curiosity. And when you ask someone their opinion, when you ask someone their advice, when you say, I don't know what's best here, can you help me? You would be amazed at the help that you get. I would be nowhere had I not done that thousands of times now. It's absolutely amazing. And even now, still I have to talk myself up, like, oh, this is some tough guy. And then you ask them genuinely their advice, and you'd be amazed at what they will grant you and give you and the opportunities that they could lay at your feet that you can then take advantage of. So ask, have conversations, say you don't know, ask for help. You'd be amazed what you can achieve as a result. The second question is quite similar, but a little different. What's the best way to find a role in the industry from the outside, if you're young? I would get in wherever you can, wherever you can. You can find an opportunity in, jump at it and work it from there. That's how I would do it, and that's how I did it. I had one opportunity. I wasn't looking at a bunch of different construction companies. There was one in my neighborhood. The project looked badass. It was Pearson Construction Corporation. I called him, I asked him for a job. I met with Mr. Pearson. I was nobody. I didn't have an introduction to Mr. Pearson. I just had the phone number on the Internet. Anybody else had it too. I called, I asked for a shot. That was it. Now, thankfully, from that point on, I was able to then, you know, pull that thread further and further and further and find my way in the industry. But I just started. So I would say, just start. I would research if this was. If this was the position I was in. I'd be paying attention to the work going on in my area. I'd be figuring out who the bigger contractors are within about five to 10 minutes. I could use ChatGPT right now to figure out the biggest civil contractors in Nashville, where I am, you know, Jones Brothers, Civil Rosso. You could go down the list. All companies we know very well now. But I could find those companies their information within five to ten minutes. And then I'd be calling every one of them. I'd be trying to figure out who is head of Talent Acquisition or HR at each one of them. That's who I'd be talking to. And if I can't get a hold of them, I'm going To go to a vice president. I'm going to go to a project manager. I'm going to go to the president, the owner. I don't care. And if I can't figure that out, I'm going to go to their office, and I'm gonna go to the front desk, say, hey, my name's Aaron. I'm local. I haven't been in construction. But I want a job. I want a shot. Can I have a shot? How do I make that happen? You have to make it happen. You have to make it happen. You're the only one that wins when you make it happen. You, again, are the best advocate for yourself. If you want to make something. If you want something to happen, you have to make it happen. It's on you. And there's all this information available. There's all these people that are front and center right now, thanks to the Internet, that you have access to. It's just a matter of finding out the right people. Now. That's what I would do if I was young, you know, no family, nothing to worry about. I might even go apply with a contractor like I did. You know, I. When I was in school, I wanted to work out of state. I was sick of Arizona summer, working out in the field, you know, when it's 115, 120, especially on the railroad. That was. Yeah, it was 120 every day. It was brutal. Brutal. And I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. So instead of this company that I went to work for, instead of their southwest district, I specifically applied to their Northwest district. That was out of Vancouver, Washington. Cause I knew that they worked in the Pacific Northwest. And where did I end up? I ended up in Washington, which was great. Unbelievable. Or if there's a big project I want to go work on, you can go find the people working on a specific project, go work on that project. So lot of opportunities, but you have to make it happen. And applying online would be the very last thing that I would do personally, as a formality, to just get an application in the door. But I would not ever, if I was looking for a job, just be applying online, crossing my fingers and waiting for a phone call. That was the absolute last thing I'd be doing. And if you are more experienced and do have a mortgage, family, you have bills to pay, a little less flexibility on the. All right, I can just start wherever I want, pushing a broom, you know, maybe you can do that. Maybe. But if not, again, I would be doing the same thing. I would be Reaching out to people. I'd probably be leveraging LinkedIn. I'd be researching companies that look cool, that I want to, want to go to work for, that I'd be interested in. Maybe it's civil construction, maybe it's earthmoving, maybe it's a building contractor, I don't know, whatever, whatever looks more interesting to you. And I'd be calling them, I'd be sending them messages, DMs on LinkedIn and explaining my situation. Hey, I'm Aaron. You know, I'm a real estate broker right now and it sucks. And I've been seeing construction online because there's this guy that has the sickest Instagram account I've ever seen, sharing all these machine photos and this and that. It's so cool. And I want to be a part of it too. And I see that you, you guys are one of the bigger contractors in town and I'm just trying to figure out how I can get in the door. And this is my skill set. So how could I potentially apply my skill set there? And what would you recommend? That's how I would be doing it as well. But either scenario, if I was just looking for open positions and applying online, it's not going to happen and I would not be wasting my time. So seeing that again, the world, ideally it would work that way. It doesn't work that way. You've gotta make it happen. And the information that you have available to you with LinkedIn, with the Internet, you can find a way you can get in the door, you can have those conversations, even if they're phone conversations, while you've got a full time gig, you can make it happen and figure your way out from there, is my best advice. Next question. Is GPS making less skilled operators? I would say gps, the best operators I've seen, like I go right to a blade hand, greater operator, that's one of the more valuable operators within the earth moving kingdom. I would say the absolute best blade hands, the most productive blade hands that I've seen out in the field these days. They're using GPS because it's just, it helps you finish way faster, way faster, way faster. But they're pairing the GPS with the basics. So they have a really good skill set on the machine itself married with a really good skill set of leveraging the gps. You pair those two things together, bingo, bango. It's the same thing with any kind of technology whatsoever. You know, is ChatGPT or is AI making people worse at communication and writing? Yes, because they're Using it to do the whole thing, which doesn't work all that well. Now if somebody like me, I have a pretty good base skill set of communication, of writing, of speaking, of creating. And then I marry some of these tools with that now I can be a lot more effective, but I know when to apply the tool and when not to. I know when to lean on my skill set a little bit more and when not to. And so I think anybody looking to be top notch from an equipment operation standpoint, they are very proficient at the machine itself, technology or not. They are increasingly proficient in the machine itself from an operation mechanical standpoint. They understand the machine, not just its capabilities, if that makes sense. They understand its technology and then they understand other things. How to read plans, how phasing works, how to work around others, how to communicate effectively, how to lead. Those are the most valuable people on any job site. They're well rounded, they, they understand the whole of it. They're not leaning on GPS to make them a good operator. So this is something silly. It's it. When I see it argued in the comments, I'm like, what a waste of time. GPS is, is undoubtedly an effective tool for earthmoving, but if you're using it as the tool, it's just not gonna work. But the old timers seeing like oh, what happens when the satellites go out, you know then what it's like, yeah, okay, that's fair. Doesn't happen all that often though. But I understand where they're coming from. You need a base level of knowledge, but then to think that's all you need. Now again, that's a little misguided. It's just not reality. There are other great tools out there and the old timers that are open minded that are adopting these new tools, they are the most valuable people in the industry by a mile. They have the experience and then they're layering these tools on top of that experience to become absolute weapons. So if I was trying to be the most valuable person out there, which hopefully you are, that's what I'd be doing. That's what I strive to do within this company. I try to be as valuable as possible. As valuable as possible. I want to be as hard to fire as possible. That should be your job, that should be your goal. I am going to master the basics. I'm going to strive to become a master of my craft and I'm going to keep my mind open to then learn and adopt new ways of doing things to get better and better and better. So that's a little bit on not just GPS but technology in general. Next question. Would you say the wage gap between leadership and the field is reasonable? The number one reason why people leave the construction industry and turnover is money. Now I've talked about this on the podcast. I'm talking about it more and more. A lot of people say, well, you can make so much money in the trades, come on down. It's true in some areas, it's true in some applications. It's not at all true in a lot of other markets. A lot of markets, especially in the south, it's just not true. And on average in the construction industry. So the United States has spent more in the past five years on construction than ever before. We just alone, this is only a fraction of the total spending. But we had the historic infrastructure package, over a trillion dollars of spending. The entirety of the United States interstate system was half a trillion dollars adjusted for inflation. I don't know one where the money went. No, I can't find anybody that can actually tell me. But say we spent it all on good stuff. On good stuff. Okay. Wages in the construction industry have gone up by about 20% over that same time period since COVID But because of inflation, they've actually declined by a percentage point. So buying power has decreased despite record spending, despite record profits. And you can go look at the money that the public companies are making, especially the materials companies. Just look at how much money they're making, more and more income every year. But the people out the field are not financially better off as a result. That to me is not cool. And the market is speaking accordingly with people washing out, hey, I can't. You know, the original bill of goods post World War II for blue collar work and the construction industry was like, yeah, I'm gonna go bust my ass. I'm gonna go work harder than most everybody in society. I'm gonna work in conditions most people wouldn't. I'm gonna work hours most people wouldn't. And I'm gonna get paid. I'm gonna get paid and I'm gonna go buy a nice house and I'm gonna have a great family. Now that's not the case. That bill of goods no longer applies. And it's frustrating to me. I'm not faulting anybody in particular, but it's frustrating to me watching these, a lot of long standing companies stack up the money, stack up the money stack up the money and their people see none of it. Now, something that is very encouraging in the construction industry as a whole. And I speak with A very broad brush. I have the broadest of brushes. A big old brush man. Something I find very encouraging is the employee ownership model. ESOP is what you'll hear. Employee stock ownership program, and maybe that's what it stands for. There might be something different, but it's employee ownership. And then the companies to really look out for are the 100% employee owned companies. If it's 100% employee owned and everybody within the company has shares, that's pretty damn cool. And that means the employees, everybody within the company is the ownership. It's not a guy in the office owning the whole company, making all the money, stacking it away for the next generation that is gonna end up screwed as a result of all the money. Because I've seen it nine times out of 10 there's, you know, 10% chance they don't end up screwed. But nine times out of 10 they end up screwed. But those employees are accruing the value, increased value of the business every year. And then upon when they leave, retire, the company buys their shares that they've accrued over however many years they've worked there. And they get that on top of their 401k retirement savings, et cetera, which for a lot of people at a lot of these great ESOPs, like a Sargent Corporation, like an Emory Sapp and Sons, like a Garni, that can be six figures safely, sometimes seven figures. As an operator, that's game changing. That's incredible. And that's how it should be. That's how you create a middle class. The United States, we no longer have a middle class. It doesn't exist anymore. Mathematically, it's not there anymore. But a society cannot persist, a society cannot be healthy without a middle class. And I think the people that build the United States of America, they should be squarely middle class more than anyone else. The ESOP model is one of the more promising ways I've seen to get people squarely into the middle class again, which they deserve. Now, it's not the only way. There's a lot of great companies out there with, with bonus structures and other types of employee compensation beyond just salary, beyond just wages. But if I was looking for a company to work for right now, that is what I would be looking for. I would be looking for a stock program that I could eventually become a part of. I would look for an esop. I would look for a company with a bonus program. You know, in the union environment you've got a pension. So that's a, that's a whole different ball game, but, but similar, you know, ensuring that you've got plenty of money stashed away. So there's. There's not one size fits all. There's not one single vehicle that covers everything. But that's what I would be looking for right now. And I would say in the marketplace, those are the most competitive companies with the best people, the best workforces. And it's still. I mean, the model's been around for a while, but it's starting to really pick up steam, which is. Which is really, really exciting stuff. Again, I'm not saying ESOP is the end all, be all, but it's a great model. And I would be looking for a model along those lines. Me personally, after seeing enough of it, I would want to be. I would want to benefit from the work I'm putting in beyond just dollars and cents, in some capacity, I would be looking for a company like that. And that's why we finally set up our company like that as well. Like this year, we have a bonus program, cash and stock, which is really exciting. It's the first year we've officially done it, and, and we're hoping to continue doing it as time goes on, get our people more and more ownership in the company. That, to me, as an owner, is so exciting. It's like, that's the whole point. I'm going to make a bunch of money. Great. I want everybody else to make a bunch of money too, and that's a vehicle to do it. That employee stock program that we have, we're not an esop, but we're able to grant stock every year according to performance, which is also really exciting. So to finish up here, would I say the wage gap between leadership and the field is reasonable? No. I think that's one of the bigger problems in the industry right now is pay. And until we address it with vehicles such as bonus structures, ESOPs, I don't think we'll create meaningful change within the industry. Next question. How do you overcome a lack of leadership? This is a frustrating one. A frustrating one. When you're a part of a team, part of a company, and you're just not getting the leadership you need. The company's not getting the leadership it needs. Our country right now is not getting the leadership it needs. We have weak leadership in the United States of America, and I'm talking the entire government, state, local, federal, weak. And it's really frustrating. And it's. It creates a helplessness. It bums me out. It creates sometimes feelings of hate. That's when it's really bad. But I'm gonna tell our team this, I've told our team this, and I'm gonna keep telling our team this and speaking upon it. This is what I speak about. You have to focus on your area of influence, on what you can control and touch. You cannot control the leadership at your company. You can't influence that. But you can become a better leader. You can become and strive to become the leader that you need, that those around you need. And in turn, then you will more effectively serve yourself and those around you. And hopefully that works its way up through the organization. Best case scenario, it does. That's how you create real influence. But it starts with you. Best case, it goes through the organization and everybody wins. Worst case, you build yourself into a great leader. You've done everything you can at your company. It's still not working. Leave and go to a company in which it will work at. That's what I would do. Again, that's the way to force change within the construction industry. It's a marketplace. If I can't retain my people, I have a bad product which is my company. That is me as an employer. That is my responsibility to ensure I have the workforce I need to to deliver the work I need to deliver. And if I don't have the workforce I need or the workforce is turning over or not capable, that's my fault. That's my responsibility. I have less and less tolerance for anybody in leadership and business complaining about employing people. Then leave. Then don't employ people. Then get out, man. Get out, sell, retire. Get out of here. That's not the game. That's not the game. So how would I overcome a lack of leadership? I would become a better leader. How do you do that? Read books. Extreme ownership is a great place to start. How to win friends and influence people. Dale Carnegie, a great place to start. I would just start there. I would read those two books and I would think about one little thing from each one of those books. Like in Dale Carnegie, how to Win Friends and Influence People, the concept of you will make far more relationships becoming interested in other people than getting people to become interested in you. Which means just listen and be genuinely curious. I've already talked about it in this podcast. That's how I get onto these job sites. That's how I'm effective with people that are, you know, 14 inches taller than me with a big beard. They could break me in two tattoos up both arms, looking at me, blank face. That's how I'm effective with those people. What are you working on? What are you doing? Hey, how many kids do you have? 3. How old are they? What are they into? Oh, you guys went fishing this weekend. Did you catch anything? Where'd you go? How'd you learn how to fish? Who taught you? Did you do it growing up? People will chirp like a bird. You have to be genuine about it. I genuinely want to know, like, what they're doing. How many fish did you catch? I'm genuinely interested. You have to be genuinely interested. They'll chirp like a bird. And now I'm building a relationship with that individual. And now I can do what I need to do more effectively. Like, when I'm on a job site, my job is to make everyone look as good as possible. Well, if they want me to be there, if they want to work with me, I'm gonna be able to make them look better. But if there's this standoffishness or they don't really want me there, or they're uncomfortable, most of the time, they're uncomfortable because I have a damn camera with me or I have people cameras with me, they're not going to be as willing to work with me. So I've got to break that barrier down as quickly as possible. That's leadership. Influencing others, influencing human behavior. How do I do that? I immediately start talking to them about them. That's it. That's the game. But it's awesome. I get to learn about so many people. I get to then break down those barriers. I then get to warm them up a little bit, get them comfortable, then make them look good, which is my goal, which then serves my purposes. It's a win. Win. Everybody wins. How cool is that? I would, beyond reading books, I'd be writing. That's another thing I do from a leadership standpoint. I audit every day, man. And it's just one page. It takes me five minutes, 10 at most. I have a notebook. My rule is write one page. What do you write about? Whatever I want to write about. What did I do? What conversations did I have? What went well? What didn't go well? How was I feeling? That's essential. Auditing my actions every day. What could I have done better in this conversation? Why did this conversation go so well? Writing is huge. Listening to podcasts is huge. Being a great example for those around me is huge. I am healthy one because it serves me, but it makes me a better leader because I have the energy, I have the ability to keep up with everybody. I serve as a good example for those around Me, I'm not telling people to be healthier, and then I'm over here a slob. I better be healthy first. And then I don't even really tell people to be healthy. I just be healthy. People around you will. They'll pick up on it. They'll see it. See, especially your kids. Monkey see, monkey do. Your kids will be watching you every step of the way. They don't care about anything you have to say. They're just watching. And they are really damn smart and intuitive. So if you become a better leader, there's no losing, even if it doesn't work within the company or team you're in. And you've got to go somewhere else. That's okay. Go somewhere else. Do your best where you are. I always say, do your best where you are. But you know, when you've done your best, you really know. You know. And if you can look yourself in the mirror and say, listen, I've tried my best here. I've done my absolute best. And there is a ceiling that I cannot exceed, which is often the case. Okay, go somewhere else. Go somewhere else. Find a great company, you know. And if you're looking for a list, go to our dirtworld website, Dirt World Summit. Check out the attendees for last year. I would start there. Those are companies investing, at least in their leaders, wanting to get better. It's not a guarantee, but that's a pretty good place to start. Anybody engaged with us, because anybody doing business with us right now is at least their minds open. That's a really good place to start. So that's what I would do to overcome a lack of leadership. I would become a better leader. What were you like in high school? I sucked. You couldn't pay me to go back to high school. I hated high school. Hated it. I grew up at the same school, Phoenix Country Day School, kindergarten to eighth grade. Now I talk about this. My parents, I don't know why they trusted me so much, but they trusted me. And when it came time to go to high school, they let me go where I wanted to go to high school. And so I looked at Phoenix Country Day School, but it was, you know, small school, class of 50, 60, most same kids that I'd been with my entire life. I needed to get out, man. I needed to see the world. I was trapped there. I felt trapped. So I went to go look at another private school in town. All boys school. Not it for me. One meeting, I was out. So I said, all right, where's the closest public high school? It was Arcadia High School down the road. Let's figure out how to get into Arcadia. So I got into Arcadia out of district and went to public school. And, you know, I went from the same 50 kids my whole life to then a class of 500. All these kids had been together their whole life. I didn't know anybody anywhere. And people, they're like, man, have you always been talking? Have you always been doing the social media? Have you always been speaking? No, absolutely not. I could not be more introverted, man. I do not do well in social situations. I don't do well. No. I've had to work my ass off to be able to conversate with people, to be able to spend time with people. It's not me. It's not my thing. And so what happened was in high school, I went and I met a girl like that a few weeks into school, freshman year, and that was that. That was all. All she wrote. So I dated this girl, my first girlfriend, officially. How good was that? On top of the world, man. Same girl through. Through high school. But the problem was with that it was comfortable, and I didn't really do a whole lot outside of that. Now I started to then branch out a little bit. Things started to turn for me in high school when I borrowed. I've talked about this a little bit on the podcast, and maybe I'll tell the story at a greater length on another episode. I borrowed money from my friend's dad, who then made me work for him in Montana. And that was the first time that I ever had to work. I didn't have to do manual labor growing up. I grew up in a very wealthy neighborhood. We didn't have manual labor. We had landscapers my whole life. Pablo, seriously. And I go up to Montana for the first time in my life. I'm 15 years old. I get my ass kicked. Whooped, man. Sun up to sundown. Manual labor. But it felt. It felt good. I liked it. It was a rude awakening, but it was at the perfect time. I was like, okay, okay, so this is how the world works. And I liked it so much that I went back the next summer. And before I went back to. I got a job when I was 16 at the aquarium store. Of course, I was working about 20, 25 hours a week at the aquarium store while I was in high school as well. So I started to work. I started to build a work ethic. I think work ethic is a skill, and a lot of people assume it's a trait because they naturally get it. Growing up around in the environment they're in, not me. I got it from a I saw work ethic from an intellectual perspective. I didn't see it from a hard work perspective. And this was the first time I got to build it from a hard work perspective. You just grind, man. It just sucks, but that's really good for you. And that started to build my confidence little by little by little. So that by the time I was a senior, 17 years old, I realized I needed to go out on my own. So I broke up with my girlfriend at the time, which was, of course, high school. All kinds of drama. And I didn't, you know, didn't do it in the right way. And yeah, you go to go down that rabbit hole. But I needed to get myself away from that comfort and plunge myself into a new world and experience high school, honestly. And I did it at like just the last minute, the last year. And that last year everything came together because I had built the necessary confidence to start to be myself. And it happened at the perfect time because then after that, I got into construction. If I started in the construction industry without that work background from high school, not a chance I would have made it. No way. And then I went to Arizona State, the biggest university in America. Had I not really started to become myself in high school, I would have got into college and I would have. I would have gone wild like everybody else. I would have had no idea who I was now. I didn't know who I was. Showing up 18 years old in Tempe at Arizona State. But I was on the path. I was on the path. And then I was able to continue that development through college and then after college. And now here we are, almost 31 years old, still not as dumb, still pretty dumb, but a whole lot better off than I was in high school. Whole lot better off. But it was great because I was in an environment in high school that allowed me to fail. And I failed a lot of classes and overall courses. I had to redo some courses. I didn't have great grades the first few years of school. And my parents didn't save me. They didn't save me. And so I had to clean up my act myself, junior and especially senior year. And thank God I did. It was the perfect timing. So would I do it any differently? No. I'm glad it got me here. It was. It worked out perfectly. But would I do it again? Absolutely not, bro. You could not pay me enough to go back to high school. Not my thing. And school in general. Not my thing. Not it Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Next question. Two more. Why don't we see much visual innovation in construction equipment? This is something I've thought a lot about. You could make the argument that we missed the golden era of innovation, which was, you know, the industry figuring out hydraulics, for example. Hydraulics are not all that. They're not all that old. Like, we didn't have hydraulics in World War II. Hydraulic equipment. It's all cable still. Then hydraulics became real commonplace 50 years ago, 60 years ago, whenever it was. And there were all these new applications and all these innovations, so on and so forth. And so you could argue that the machines that we now have, they're just perfect. Like, you can't get better than a bulldozer. You can't get better than a blade, a scraper, an excavator, modern haul truck. It just is what it is, man. It's really similar in automotive. There has not been very much innovation in the automotive space at all for decades. Like, almost none. Your. Your vehicle, your truck, it's almost identical to what it was 15, 20 years ago. It just has more and more technology, which arguably has degraded its ability to persist. You could argue equipment has been within the same ball game. So the charitable perspective is, well, it's just as good as it gets. And now it's just incremental improvements. You know, 5% better, 10% better, 12% better, which is what you see at ConExpo for the most part. The other side of it is most of these companies, it's pretty consolidated, and most of them are public companies. Public companies in America are not rewarded for groundbreaking innovation. They're rewarded for making a little bit more every quarter. And the best way to do that is to, again, incrementally improve what you already have. You got a great excavator. Just keep whittling away at that. Just make it a little bit better. Just make it a little bit better. Just make it a little bit better. Keep the train on tracks, keep delivering those quarterly earnings, keep it nice and steady, but grow, and we're good to go. Now there's an argument for that side as well, and there's probably a hundred other arguments. Somebody within the equipment space might be thinking like, well, this guy's the biggest idiot in the world. That's not how it works. I don't maybe, I would say most of the innovations on the technology side of things now, but I would argue, and this is. This is not specific to one equipment manufacturer, I would argue that the equipment manufacturers are a little out of touch because they're adding more and more technology to these machines. I don't see it used effectively or all that often, if ever. So the customer's paying more and more and more and more for these machines. You can see the cost of equipment over the past five years. It's astronomical. If I went to buy a skid steer right now, how much more it is than when I ordered my first one five years ago, it almost makes your stomach hurt now. The market has increased, the resale values increased, but a lot of that has been in just more and more and more technology. But if the technology doesn't create value for me, if I don't know how to apply it effectively, which most people don't, at what point do I continue to pay for it? And there's a lot of people that are buying now old equipment because it's like, well, I don't want the technology, I don't want all the electronics. I want it to just work. I want to be able to wrench on it. And then now you have the whole right to repair thing. They've all got computers. And to diagnose what's going on, you need my computer to do it, which is a whole other can of worms. And I'm not educated on that subject at all. But you start to get into it, you're like, well, that's pretty clever. If you're gatekeeping the ability to even repair the machines to begin with, like iPhones, like Apple, like a lot of other technology products. No, no, no. You have to do it through our proprietary mythology. You can't go fix your own stuff. So I think there's a lot of reasons why. I don't think it's one reason. I would say it's probably more so it's all really good. A bulldozer is a bulldozer at the end of the day. But there's also these other macro trends that aren't just. It's not just equipment, it's also the United States automotive industry. There's a lot of other industries that have fallen victim to a lack of true innovation because there's not really a desire to innovate based on what I've seen. And they're all doing just fine. They're not going to be like, oh, maybe we need to listen to his kids. You can go look at their earnings right now. Any one of these companies, they're all public, check it out. They're doing just fine. They're doing just fine. So they're going to keep doing what they're doing. And I don't blame them. And honestly, I used to be on this subject and people are very opinionated on equipment. Fighting about what equipment's what. I don't get into that anymore. I think that's a fool's errand. And that's just not my world. Anything that moves dirt is good for me. I love all brands. I will play for any team that moves dirt. Okay. I also used to think that like, well, how don't they see this? This is so obvious. I know best. And then I read the book called the Caterpillar Way, which frankly, I would not recommend. It's pretty dense unless you want to get into like how a public company, a Fortune 100 blue chip industrial US company works from like a financial standpoint. If that's your thing, then it's your book. If not, it's. I wouldn't read it. But it gave me, if nothing else, an appreciation of how complicated it is to run an organization that big with hundreds of thousands of people spread across a hundred plus countries in every time zone in the world, with hundreds of different products. Like, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. And I don't want to act like I do. Sometimes I do. I oftentimes do. But I try to have a dash of humility to also say, listen, I don't understand the game they're playing. Yeah. Has there been innovation over the past 10, 15 years? No. Would they might argue that with batteries and technology, this and that. Yes. But an excavator is an excavator. A truck's a truck. Put. You know, a 657 scraper is a great example. You put a 657E next to a brand new 657. Look at them side by side. Just look at them side by side. Not a whole lot's changed. But again, maybe it's because the 657. Hey, listen, we just nailed it, dude. And we're just going to make that incrementally better. Finally, what should you most value? Starting out as a recent graduation, the one thing that I would value more than anything else, the one thing that served me better than anything else is working in the field. There's a lot of internships out there right now. When summer comes around, that's the big thing now. Showing off all of our interns because we're the best company in the world. Duh. Which is great. But a lot of these programs, it's like, you know, they're in the office Which I understand there's office work, but as an 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 year old, that's the time to be in the field. That's the time to be in the field. And that field experience, you don't need that much of it to really get, to really get it, to get what you need. I would say you don't need that much, but you need more than a few days, more than a few weeks. You need to, you need to be out there for months to see it, to experience it, to live it, to be a part of it. And then that genuine appreciation for the work will carry you through your career. Because as you're getting into leadership management salary positions, your job is to support those making it happen. You don't build the work. If you look at how a project is built, find you as a line item on that pay schedule, pay app on that, that, that bid sheet, you're just within overhead. Everything else there is performed by the people out in the field. The operators, the truck drivers, the laborers, whatever it is. Crew leaders are a big part of that as well. You're there to support them. And so the more you can understand what they do and why, the better off you will be in supporting them and the more humble you'll be. This is why it's a key differentiator. And the more, the further I go down the path, the more this is true between self performed contractors and general contractors that manage others. There is a humility within self performed contractors that is not present in big picture with general contractors because they don't do the work themselves. And so if you can go do the work yourself, do the work yourself, go out into the field, do not let the company put your, put you in the office right away. Stay away from the office early on. Spend as much time out in the field as you can because that time will go away. You will eventually end up in the office if that's the trajectory you're on, which it likely is. Stay out in the field as long as you can. As long as you can. And then go work somewhere cool like again. Recent grad I didn't want to work in Arizona, where I was from. So the company that I signed to offer with, I signed a job offer full time my senior year of college in September for my May graduation. Afterwards they sat me down that fall and they said, hey, we actually want to keep you in Arizona. I remember this conversation. I remember the office and I remember the two guys there. I still know one of them. We want to keep you In Arizona. And I said, nope, I'm going to Texas. That's where we had agreed upon originally for me to go. Going to Texas. So it's either I'm going to Texas or I'm going to work for a different company. I don't care if I have an offer. What we agreed upon initially, now that's off the table. I don't care. I am not working in Arizona. I want to go see something else. I don't know why it was the line in the sand. Was the line in the sand, but it was my opportunity. I understood. I had this flexibility that I wouldn't have the rest of my life. I. I could go work anywhere. I better take advantage of it. And so I went to work in Texas. Now, that only lasted four months before I ended up at a software company. And that only lasted four months before I ended up back in Arizona. Go figure. But I wanted to go see something else. I wanted to go build somewhere differently because again, I knew that seeing different things would serve me in the best way possible in the future. So I would stay out in the field as long as you can. I would do the work as much as you can do the work. Don't just stand there and be a dumb dumb. Do the work. Be involved. And I would go work somewhere that you. That might be a little ridiculous. Even a foreign country. Roll the dice, man. Go see the world. Because now's the opportunity to do it. And that's not always the case. You have some kids, you buy a house, get married. That goes out the window. So take advantage of the opportunities and freedom while you've got it. And that's everything. Those are the questions for today. If you have feedback, further questions. You want to call me a dummy? Love that. I invite that anytime. Write to me directly@aaronbillwood.com and if you write to me and get a response, that's me. People are like, do you. Are you the one messaging on your. Your messages? Are you the one on social media? Yeah. Yes, Damn it. I have nothing better to do. Come on. Would love to chat with you. Really, really appreciate you listening. I wholeheartedly appreciate everybody listening to these episodes. So drop me a line, Aaron at billwood. Com and we'll see you on the next one. Stay dirty, everybody.