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- [00:13]
A
If I could start a power line company, the very first crew I would hire would be a content crew. Like, it would be a crew that's, it's in their contract.
- [00:23]
B
It's already happening.
- [00:24]
A
Yeah.
- [00:24]
B
With, on the civil side, like there's companies. Yeah. They're, they're hiring full time videographers. You know, maybe one guy.
- [00:32]
A
Well, it would be a videographer and like full content people that go along with the line crew. But the line crew would be. Yeah, it's in their con. They're being filmed. Like, that's their every day. They're getting followed around. And you're making a show out of it. You're making a social show out of it. You're making like whatever you can for content. Yeah. And you're running a podcast. Like you, you start up, you start a powerline company and you start a media company at the same time. And you run both beside each other.
- [00:58]
B
Yeah.
- [00:59]
A
And that's what you do in today's world. You say you speak like this to them though, and you have like four eyes.
- [01:06]
B
Yeah, yeah. Well, but, but, but I think, but, but I think this is where again, you've done a nice job because instead of just beating your head against the wall, like I did that for a while too. I, I, oh man, I was working for this construction company and I put this whole presentation together to the executives on why they should be on social media and why we should make a company social media page and presence. And I was gonna do it like on the side, like just for fun.
- [01:32]
A
Yeah.
- [01:33]
B
And I was gonna do everything, like in after hours. My job remains the same. I don't want any money for it. I just want to show people what the hell goes on here. And there's a lot of benefits to it. They're just like, nah, we're good. And, and in the early days too, I spent a lot of time just beating my head against the wall, just trying to convince, convince, convince. It's like, let me just show.
- [01:55]
A
Yeah.
- [01:55]
B
And that's what you did. Like if you had gone to them and say, I want to start a podcast, I did this. But.
- [02:01]
A
Well, that's why you're smiling at you. Because that's what I did. I went to them and they looked at me like, you what?
- [02:07]
B
Didn't work?
- [02:09]
A
Hell is going to listen to you talk to lineman.
- [02:12]
B
Yeah.
- [02:12]
A
Like, laughed at me.
- [02:14]
B
Yeah.
- [02:14]
A
In 2019 too, there was like, what, 750,000 global podcasts. Like, it's pretty, it was pretty small market. Like, who the heck is going to listen well, there's people listening now. It's not like tons. It's no Joe Rogan at all.
- [02:28]
B
But, but, but it doesn't. But, but that's the cool thing. It doesn't have to be. Yeah, you. And it's, it's arguably more powerful in a lot of ways. When you do have that, that specific audience you're speaking to up because you start to become a power player within that, that market, which is that market is the Quanta Services business. So. So being the voice within their business, like 100%, that's a, that's a valuable place to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And even with the video stuff we've done, like the YouTube stuff has been a very. We haven't got it quite figured out yet. We're on our way. Like, we're getting a lot. Gotten a lot better over the past six months especially. But even like you have to use these videos to, to show people, hey, this is what we're doing. And they hear video and they're like, no, pass. Like, and it's like, no, no, no.
- [03:21]
A
I'm not just gonna like construction.
- [03:22]
B
Yeah. I'm not gonna sit here and go record every safety violation on site. That's not what we're doing here.
- [03:28]
A
This guy's not wearing his glasses.
- [03:29]
B
Yeah, no, we're, we're here to make it look good and, and show what it is. But that, like, they can't visualize that. But if you show them, hey, here's an example of something that's kind of similar we did for another big company. Oh, this makes perfect sense. Gets you in the door here. But it's like, it's just one block after the next. I mean that's, that's been a eight year process now. Just building one block. One block, one block. And then you can then just focus on the people that want to be on board and run with that. And then people will slowly, those you were beating your heads against the wall with over here, they'll come.
- [04:08]
A
What's your ultimate goal with the content side? Like, what do you want to. Like what do you want it to look like and be? What level do you want to just keep growing?
- [04:15]
B
I want to be mainstream. Like I look the quality, the cinematic quality. So with photography, I've always been like, I want to be the best in the world at my craft, which is photographing civil construction, mining. And you are. And well it. But I, and perhaps like I'm up there. I know that much. But it's a small group. Like I kind of in A way built the market. But I've always really like, I'm really proud of that. But then I'm always pushing. Like I'm not comparing against it. It's like, it's almost like I'm put. I'm comparing myself with myself because that's what you have to do with creative work. It doesn't like comparing your creative work to others. It screws you.
- [05:02]
A
You're an artist.
- [05:02]
B
Yeah, it just doesn't, it doesn't, doesn't work that way. But, but I've. But at the same time, I'm not a technical guy. Like I couldn't talk to you about cameras. I couldn't. We couldn't shoot the shit about cameras or I mean I know the basics. I know how to use a camera. Clearly I do it often. I couldn't tell you a lot about it. I don't keep up with latest and greatest.
- [05:27]
A
Just crazy for like how good you are at photography.
- [05:30]
B
But like I'm not concerned. I don't get distracted by the technical side of things. I'm focused wholly on the story and I don't want the technical side to get in the way of the story. So on the podcast front, on the YouTube front, just like the better story we can tell, the better off we are and the better. And this is what's getting me really excited like about the, like the latest video with Quanta with the Sun Zia T line. Like the more I can explain very complex infrastructure projects in a way that anybody can understand, the better.
- [06:11]
A
Yeah, you did a good job with that.
- [06:12]
B
I, it came together really nice for not.
- [06:16]
A
I learned stuff, dude.
- [06:18]
B
I was like, oh yeah. I was just explaining what I learned. I didn't know any of that before we started, but that's where like that's what I'm really trying to figure out now is how can I explain the challenges of a multi billion dollar 552 mile transmission line through New Mexico and Arizona to my mother?
- [06:37]
A
Yeah.
- [06:40]
B
And make it interesting to her and make her understand why it matters. So if I can do that, we're going to win. And I think that that's why I'm excited. Yeah, that's why I'm excited about this school. So I like it.
- [06:54]
A
I like it a lot. Yeah, it's cool. It's cool to see. It's cool to see guys like you pushing like for guys like me. Like that's what I was saying when I interviewed you is like I have looked up to you and your content since the beginning. Like since I started because there was very few people in the space. And I know, like, you weren't in the line work space, but you're in the construction space. And it's a. Like, that's what people don't. I've seen a few comments on some of those posts you added. The helicopter guys was like, oh, not much dirt around here. It's like, yeah, they're in the same world, man.
- [07:29]
B
They're working parallel.
- [07:30]
A
Yeah, we got lots of dirt workers working side by side with like we as linemen, jump in cats and you know, backhoes and like everything. We drive truck, we. Everything. Right. So it's the same world. Yeah, it's. So anyway, it was. It's nice to have people to look up to in this world because there isn't many, you know. And I want more people like us out there to start doing this too. That's why I keep encouraging, like, I keep encouraging people. If there's any construction worker out there that is interested in content and interested in photography and videography and things like, start putting your work out there because it's needed. Like, how else besides us and a few others in this space, you then have, you know, the micros of the world, like you said, are like way up here.
- [08:23]
B
Yeah.
- [08:24]
A
We need more elevating to that level in this world because we need more people doing this.
- [08:33]
B
I think like, what we really need first and foremost is more leaders within the industry. Talking about the industry, 100%. I think that's where it really starts. It starts top down. And I know it's scary, but it's like those are the people. Because the, the pushback I always get from people out in the field is like, listen, they don't allow me to post anything, so I can go take as many photos and videos as I want.
- [09:00]
A
Right.
- [09:00]
B
They won't. They won't even let me put it anywhere. It comes from leadership. And leadership needs to be on board and leadership needs to be going first. And that's why. That's part of the reason why we've done so well is our leadership is very active online. Like Dan, he posted about this the other day. Well, so. So I told you we sold the creative company earlier this year. When you do something like that as a business, what do you do to get the word out about it? Press release. We need a press release. We. No press release. I don't know what a press release is. I don't know how to write it. I think it's a waste of time. We put. We talk about it on the podcast on social media, et cetera, et cetera. Everybody I'm talking to right now, how's that been? I haven't talked to them. 6 months, 9 months, 12 months, years. How's that going? They're curious. Like, how do they know? Because we're talking about it. Yeah, we're. We're from top down leading that charge. And I know it's easy because we have 50 people and I don't have the SEC up my ass. And, you know, I get it. Like, I have it. I have it a lot easier. But at the same time, I've seen publicly traded. Like, there's this guy, Joe Hendricks, I think his name is. He's the CEO of csx, the railroad. If you don't follow him online, you gotta follow him. He does it so well. He's like, yeah, you know, surprise visit to the Nashville yard today. And it's just pictures with him and the people. And it was great to see everybody this and that. And then since I've been liking his stuff, I see what he's commenting on, and it'll be some, you know, CSX employee somewhere talking about something, and there he is in the comments. Love what you're doing. Thank you so much. And then he signs everything in a capital Joe, and it's like, total boomer move.
- [10:53]
A
It's working, though.
- [10:54]
B
But how cool is, like, if I'm working at csx, I'm some engineer somewhere in some far off world, so far removed from corporate, but I'm sharing what I'm doing because the guy is sharing what he's doing. He's proud, gives me permission. And then the guy's liking my post and sharing my post, commenting on my post. That's a shot in the arm. Let's go. Like that. That is. That's. That's not everything. But that's so meaningful.
- [11:23]
A
I was sitting, I had the opportunity to get in front of basically all of the executives for Quantum Services. And the whole weekend I was listening to them say, we need to communicate better with the field and how do we do this and this and that. And they're. They're talking about this all weekend. We need to communicate better. Talked about leadership a lot, because they recognize that too. Like, they recognize it. They see we need to, you know, bring up our leaders. And I just, like, I got. I had an opportunity to get up on stage and I told them, like, okay, you have an opportunity to communicate with everybody through podcasting. It's just one, One medium. It's all of social, but, like, I was going to speak about thing that I knew something about. Like, what if each one of you, I challenged them? I'm like, what if each one of you executives got on one to five podcasts a year? There's 300, and some of you that's, you know, times five. Like, that's a lot of exposure. Like, you want to talk to the people in the field, you want to talk to your potential clients. Your clients, you share your message. And I'm like, it doesn't have to be an industry related podcast. You can start with Powerline podcast shit. Like you own me. We can start here. How many of you guys know something about hunting? All of you get on a hunting podcast because guess who else knows shit about hunting? Everybody that works for you. And through that you get to talk about the other things you do in life. You get to talk about leadership. You get to talk about how you got to this position. Come on, guys. Like, you want to talk to people and you want to better communicate and share your message. Do something like this. Yeah, you know, because you can start on social media, but like, chances are the majority of you don't have more than, you know, five followers. And you know, but it does. Probably not, but you can start there.
- [13:15]
B
But social media, what I tell executives is LinkedIn. Don't even think about anything else. Just do LinkedIn that it's, it's.
- [13:23]
A
And hire a ghostwriter.
- [13:25]
B
Well, yes, yes, you could do that. However, I see that done a lot and if you're going to do it, you better do it well because there's a lot of executives doing it and it's just like, it's not. Well, it's just nonsense. Yeah, it's like, what is this? Like, what are these words? Like, I don't even know what these mean. It's just so flowery. And yeah, it's like, it just turns into executive speak. Like, you know, we, we, this quarter we, we delivered a lot of value and, and we really appreciate, you know, our employees are more valued than ever before. It's like, blah, blah, blah. Who talks like this? Like, this is what's going on here. They just talk like a person, for goodness sakes.
- [14:06]
A
They talk like that on LinkedIn. That's where they talk like that.
- [14:08]
B
Yeah, yeah, but that, but that's the cool thing about podcasts is. Yeah, it's just like, and I'm sure, I'm sure you've gotten good at this over the hundreds of episodes you've done is some, especially at the executive level, you've Got to kind of pull it out of them, like. Or they start to go off. No, no, no. Hey, come back, come back. Come on. Or like, they kind of glaze over something. Wait, wait, let's go back here. Like, what's going on there? And you've got to. You've got to like, guide them through.
- [14:37]
A
The process because, dude, you can. You're right. Because you can pull on the threads that mean something. Like, I talk a lot about, not because I know a lot about leadership, but I pull on that thread all the time because people are interested in. We need better leaders and we need more leaders. So, like, if I'm got. If I got somebody that's in a leadership position sitting in front of me, I'm going to pull the leadership thread. Like, I don't really care about a lot of these other things. I'm going to pull on that thread a lot. What makes you a good leader? You know, what's your thoughts on what? Like, what do you do to be all those sorts of things? And then communication is another one that I hear a ton. Like, we need to be better communicators. We need to learn how to communicate better. I'm like, all right, let's pull this thread then. Let's get every ounce of, like, what you think it means to be a good communicator and how somebody can be a better communicator. Yeah, let's pull that thread. I like that. In long form combos, like podcasting.
- [15:34]
B
Yeah.
- [15:35]
A
Because you get the truth out of them.
- [15:37]
B
Yeah. And it's not in a. Like, it's not a. You're not running a gotcha program. Like, I'm not running a gotcha program. I'm not after this. Yeah. 33 second sound bite to like, I'm.
- [15:46]
A
Just gonna get this guy.
- [15:47]
B
Yeah.
- [15:48]
A
In fact, you don't get any good.
- [15:51]
B
No, no. And if. Yeah, if you want. I mean, you know, this video editor, you're gonna, you have to edit out a lot of ums. You know, just not build a post.
- [16:00]
A
From an hour and a half of.
- [16:02]
B
Yeah, but, but that, that is why me. I'm very introverted. I think I can tell you are too. Like, I'm, I'm. I'm not a communicator, naturally. But to get to where I want to go to. To elevate this world that I love, this infrastructure world that I love, and help carry it forward into future generation. Like, to do that, I better figure out how to communicate. And that's why I've leaned into all of this podcasting, writing, video, etc. Makes me a better communicator. If I'm a better communicator, I'm more effective.
- [16:43]
A
Yeah.
- [16:43]
B
I can lead more effectively. Like, that's the single best skill I've built. Communication. Being able to talk, being able to write. It is more valuable than anything else I've done.
- [16:56]
A
Yeah.
- [16:56]
B
I still can't do it with women, but I can do it in business.
- [17:00]
A
That's okay. That's all right. You gotta let you have a little mystery.
- [17:06]
B
No, it's just dysfunction. It's not mystery.
- [17:11]
A
It's just working on communication here.
- [17:14]
B
I just can't get it. But it's, it's and, and like for you, I mean, I'm sure I haven't really learned. Listen to my original episodes, but I'm sure they're trash compared to now.
- [17:25]
A
I don't. I can't.
- [17:26]
B
I don't. Yeah, I don't want to wait in.
- [17:28]
A
When people say, like, hey, I started listening to the podcast. I went all the way back to the beginning is I'm like, oh, bro, do that. Start with the last three. Not the first three.
- [17:37]
B
Yeah, it's cool too. I like what you do. You will have executives on. Because you have had some of those executives on, it looks like. Yep. But then you'll also have some dude in his truck.
- [17:49]
A
Yep. I'm going to Sunzia in a week or two, a couple weeks, and I'm literally, I'm gonna set up like a truck podcast. We're just gonna mount these little DJI's in the truck and I'm gonna have the guy sit and lineman sit in the front seat and drive me. And I'm gonna sit in the passenger seat and I'm just gonna. Going to. Dex is going to handheld from the back seat and we're just going to make it rough and real and that's going to go out in audio form, but also going to go out as a little YouTube video. Like, I want to try different things like that too. Like, how can I. Also because of, like you say, the field side of things, like, the executives are a little bit more. Some of them a little bit more comfortable sitting here and talking because they're in kind of high pressure scenarios and they can public speak a lot more. But these line guys, they don't want to come on the podcast. They get all scared about it. I'm like, dude, it's just a conversation with another lineman. Like, there's. You're barely even going to notice the cameras.
- [18:44]
B
Yeah.
- [18:45]
A
But to get them comfortable. I want to get them off site, away from other people, get them doing something like driving.
- [18:51]
B
Driving's perfect.
- [18:52]
A
So it distracts them a little bit and just talk to them.
- [18:54]
B
Yeah, yeah, we've got some. Back in the early days when we would interview people for, like, overview videos, driving was, like, just a really good way to get people because. Yeah, they can. Like, even in a podcast setting, the quicker I can get them to forget they're on a podcast, the better.
- [19:13]
A
100. Get them answering questions that they can answer straight off the hops.
- [19:18]
B
Give them some soft. Yeah. Some softballs. Or I'll talk a lot, like I'm doing right now, but I'll talk a lot in the beginning and. And really, like, it's valuable, but I'm kind of just spouting to just.
- [19:29]
A
Yeah, get them comfortable.
- [19:30]
B
Get them comfortable, because the quicker I can get them to just forget what's going on here. Now we're cooking. Yeah, let's go.
- [19:37]
A
Yeah.
- [19:38]
B
Driving, though, out the field, like. Yeah, you. You sit that. Put that guy on, like, on a camera. All right. You know, don't look at the camera, but the camera's gonna be looking at you.
- [19:47]
A
Like, it doesn't work. It doesn't.
- [19:49]
B
Doesn't work. Yeah, Yeah.
- [19:51]
A
I get it, though. It's hard. I still.
- [19:53]
B
Yeah.
- [19:53]
A
Like that, too.
- [19:54]
B
Yeah. Yeah. The camera thing is.
- [19:56]
A
It's weird.
- [19:57]
B
I don't think I'll ever get used to it. It's super weird. We. I was in Japan a few weeks ago, and it was funny. I. I was with the. We were at a quarry, and I was with the guy that owned the quarry, and I was like, hey, can we get a picture real quick? I wanted to get a picture with him just for memory's sake. It was a pretty cool place. And then they heard picture, and there were maybe like, 15 people that came over, all with their. I mean, it was like 15 people taking our picture at once. It's like. It's overwhelming when two people. You know, it's like when two people with iPhones that you don't know which one to look at, you're like, oh, do I look at that one? Or, like, she looks like the one charged. I'm going to look at that one. But this was then that. Guess this is what celebrities do all the time. Which is ridiculous. But it was like, it's just too cool. It's so against everything.
- [20:42]
A
Everything.
- [20:43]
B
Yeah. I hate it. Like, it's not. It's just not. Not what I'm. What I'm about. Did you start as alignment or did you do other stuff before I started?
- [20:55]
A
Second generation lineman.
- [20:56]
B
Oh, really?
- [20:57]
A
My father owned a small. He. My father started out as an electrician, and then he owned his own electrical company and then quickly realized that there was more value and more money in high voltage and excitement and everything. He just kind of liked it better. So he ended up becoming a lineman and then ran a power line company. All through my childhood, ran this company, him and my mother. Just a small company. A small town, central British Columbia, Canada. It's a forestry and mining town. So. So again, like, come from very blue collar, you know, background. And right out of high school, it wasn't something I wanted to do that my. My mom always asked me, like, hey, do you want to be a lineman? Do you want to be a lineman? Because it was, you know, would have been easy to get into, right? Dads. And I was like, no, heck no. I've been around it, like every summer, every day after school, I'd worked in the yard, I'd stock bucket trucks, I'd stock shelves, I'd, you know, paint trailers, drive trucks, whatever. And it was not something I wanted to do. I wanted to be in the creative space. I actually wanted to go into, like, graphic design. This was like 1999. So, like, there was no Internet as we know it, right? So, like, I was thinking graphic design or something like that. And a foreman that worked for my dad, Dave Fossa, he pulled me aside one day and kind of like slapped me on the side of the head and was like, do you understand the opportunity that you're giving up if you don't go do this? He's like, how old are you? I'm like, I'm 20. He's like, so you're 23, 24. You top out, you got a ticket in your hand. You can go work anywhere in the world with this ticket. Like, just do it. Don't be an idiot. And so I went home, thought about it that night, came back in the next day. I was like, okay, dad, let's. Let's do this. Let's. Let's do it. And the second I climbed my first pole and drove a big truck and got to go out with the crews and did some traveling and, you know, new sights every day, just, like, saw some beautiful countryside, did interesting, valuable work every day, I was hooked, like, instantly hooked. So spent 15 years, like the next 15 years ticking off the bucket list of all the cool I ever wanted to do in the trade. Then that was everything. I chased everything cool that I Want to do from flying on top of hell on the side of helicopters underneath of them. Like getting dropped off on cool towers. Did energized bare hand work. You know, working on energized 500000 volts with your bare hands kind of stuff. Like chasing hurricanes all across the country. Like just everything cool that you could do in the job I wanted to do. And I spent the next 15 years just doing that.
- [23:47]
B
See this is where I, I really dislike the focus about like balance. Especially in your 20s. Like stop, go chase. Like this is the only. Especially in your 20s. Like most people can go chase whatever they want to go chase. So it's like I get. If you want to be at home every night, that's great. But like this is your one opportunity. Go chase the big. And the big shit's cool. Like, like why not go experience it? So if you, if you have the opportunity, like send it. Like just, just go for it. Because then that carries you the rest of your career like that. You can hang your hat on that. The rest of how you know, for whatever is beyond that.
- [24:30]
A
I think her Moses says it the best. Or the best that I see. Like you don't know anything when you're 20. Like you don't know. All you have is like a potential within you, a work ethic. Like go do something. Go work. Go spend. You have energy and you have the ability to do things. You don't know anybody and you don't. Like you don't have anything. You don't have money and you don't have network.
- [24:57]
B
Yeah.
- [24:57]
A
So go build that in your 20s.
- [24:59]
B
Well. And you don't know who the hell you are.
- [25:01]
A
Yeah.
- [25:01]
B
And it's like what better way to figure out who you are as an individual than try a bunch of shit out. Yeah. And go in a bunch of different places and being super uncomfortable and meeting different people and, and, and failing like that, that allows you to become a individual. Like a well formed human being adult. Which a lot of people aren't. Because it's like man, you, you still have no idea what's going on because you've been in the same spot for like, I don't know, we all have it. You know, you see the kids from high school, whatever it is, they're still doing the same shit in their 30s. Like man, you guys haven't, like you haven't gone anywhere. Like this is crazy. Like this is what you guys still do. You still hanging out same place, same people do the same thing every week.
- [25:46]
A
Wanting to be somebody.
- [25:47]
B
Yeah. And how do you. And like good for you. That's great. Like if you enjoy that, if that's your purpose, fantastic, congratulations. But I just don't see how you can really learn about who you are doing that. Like there's just no, like there has to be some turmoil, there has to be some chaos, there has to be some headwinds to figure out what you're made of, what you're best at, what you should stay away from.
- [26:15]
A
And this is what the trades honestly will do for you that school won't.
- [26:20]
B
Yeah.
- [26:21]
A
And not to knock school, it's great for a lot of people but it's also not good for a lot of people. School would not have been good for me. And this is what I didn't realize coming out of high school is like you talk about not knowing who you are, not knowing yourself that well. I didn't know myself that well. I was 19, I sucked in school. I was a CD student. Like and it wasn't that I was dumb, I just didn't apply. It wasn't interesting to me at all. So going into college or university would have been the same way. I would have not applied myself properly. It would have been born like whatever. The second I got into trades and like I said I was hooked from the start. I excelled. I was top apprentice, you know, like I loved what I was doing, I was passionate about it. I started talking to everybody about what I was doing passionately because it was awesome, it was interesting. I wanted to tell everybody about it and that's. I also brought that creative side into what I was doing in the trades. I was always the guy with a camera. I got, I had in 2009, I remember like a Nikon, Cool picks, shitty. Like it was taking 720p. I taped that with black electrical tape to a shovel handle, stick it in the dirt, you know, 100 meters away and then go do like a helicopter pole set on the side of a mountain. And I come back and I still have a few of those videos kicking around. Some of them I've lost but like just this old shaky friggin Nikon cool pics. Anyway, go find out who you are and there's no better place to do that than the trades I think because of going through that. Because also you can like make a kick ass living doing it too. Sure. And you're not going to do that at school. You're going to go, not necessarily waste your twenties in school but if you're somebody who school's not working and you're Trying to find yourself. And you're trying to find yourself by going to university or college. Like, dude, go into the trades, go get a valuable ticket, Go learn some shit, be tested in life, learn some work ethic, learn how to dig in.
- [28:33]
B
Like, well, because. And even if you don't end up in the trades long term, you now have legitimate skills. Like, there's a lot of degrees that you don't really develop any legitimate skills getting, which is a problem. And that's what they tell you is like, no, you know, you have valuable skills coming out of this. Like, you don't. You're not taught how to communicate, you're not taught how to critically think. You, you. I mean, in some case, like, I got an engineering degree, so. Okay, yeah, you do get put into a specific path. But could I design a bridge out of school? Not a chance. No way. You have to go work in the real world for four more years before they'll give you the ability to say, all right, you can build a bridge now. Yeah, it's in going into the trades. But I, I like the world you went into because you get moved around so much. And I think that's really valuable too. Like, going away from home is really good for you. It's really like. I worked in different. I worked in. While I was in school in Arizona for a few years, worked in California for a little bit, worked in Washington for a little bit, went to work in Texas after school. That was just as important as the work itself. Different environments, different people, different companies, doing different things. It just gives you this remarkable skill set. This just rich, rich, rich experience that you can then draw on. And it just allows you to move faster, I think.
- [30:01]
A
And you're also, you're also doing things for yourself. You have to figure things out on your own.
- [30:07]
B
Yeah.
- [30:07]
A
I taught pre apprenticeship for two years at Quanta's Electrical Line School at Lazy Q. And these are like 18 to 30 year olds, kind of. There was a few older ones, but 18 to 30, the amount of like young people, like mid-20s. Never been away from home before.
- [30:27]
B
Yeah.
- [30:28]
A
Didn't even know how to do laundry.
- [30:30]
B
Yeah, like to break it right down.
- [30:32]
A
For real, dude.
- [30:33]
B
Yeah. Can't cook.
- [30:34]
A
Would swing a hammer by like punching, you know, a leg bolt instead of like holding the hammer at the bottom of the handle and hitting something with like, I saw all sorts of stuff that it's just valuable, valuable skills. Get out, do things on your own, be tested both in the trades and then just outside in life, like doing life things, finding out where you're gonna sleep? Like, where am I gonna live on this job site? You know, like, where am I staying? Figuring that out on my own, you know? You know, I got to get some buddies, you know, I got to get somebody. I got to pay for things I got. Yeah, yeah. What happens when things go wrong?
- [31:08]
B
Yeah. Me and my buddy get to fight, which has never happened, I'm sure. Yeah. Now I need a new place to live unexpectedly.
- [31:18]
A
That's the good thing with dudes, though. You'll probably just, like, fight and then get over it the next day.
- [31:22]
B
Sure. Well, it's usually when women get involved is. Yeah. You meet a girl and that goes south. That's the problem. What do you. What do you tell those or what. When you. Especially when you're training those younger guys, what would you tell them?
- [31:36]
A
I don't think you tell them anything. You try to guide them and coach them. That's the thing I've found. Like, if you can get them to come up with the ideas themselves, almost.
- [31:48]
B
Yeah.
- [31:49]
A
Guide them into that. You need this, like, aha moment with them because that's what ultimately changes behavior or gets. Gets the thing to click is like, you need them to come up with the idea and for it to go, ah. So that's like, where you're almost not so much a coat or not so much a teacher or instructor. You're like a coach. Right. Like, I gotta. I gotta figure out how to get you to figure out how to do this thing. Like how to tie a knot backwards and forwards inside. Because you're gonna be up on a pole and you're gonna have to tie that thing without seeing it or, like, around. Like, you're going to have to know and you're going to have to trust it because your life is on that knot.
- [32:31]
B
Yeah.
- [32:31]
A
You know, or somebody else's life is on that knot. You got to figure it out. But getting them to, like, getting them to that point, I found you got to figure it out as if, like, look at. As. As if you're a coach. So it's not so much telling them things, it's like guiding them and coaching them into it especially.
- [32:52]
B
It's very applicable for young men. Like, the ego is very fragile.
- [32:59]
A
Yeah. But that's good too, though. Like, play on that, though.
- [33:04]
B
Sure.
- [33:04]
A
But, like, from the point of, like, almost like a comedian, like, get. Get your bet. Draw out your inner comic and. And play on that ego. I mean, make sure it's in front of people. Because there's nothing better than, like, there's no easier way to get somebody to that point of aha than getting them to their, like in front of their peers and like pointing out the things they're doing wrong in front of an audience, you know, that makes them try a little harder to get there quicker.
- [33:34]
B
Sure, yeah. Well, and you can all. Humor is a great, great one to just disarm certain situations too. And that, like, I feel like that's not talked about enough. You can tell who's spent time in the field and who hasn't as well. Like this is what I run into a lot with some people in corporate, you know, that have, especially in, you know, in, in the marketing world and want to control messaging, so on, so forth. It's like, like we don't, we don't talk like that here. It's like, I don't know about that. Have you been on a job site recently? But that's like, but that's part of it. Like that's the language, like the humor, the jokes, the giving each other shit. Sometimes in a funny way, sometimes in a legitimate way, sometimes like telling somebody go fuck themselves and in a joking way. And then sometimes when you really mean it, like that's all valuable. Like that's, that's like part of the language. That's part of the bond. That's part of what. And especially in the line world, like you live and work with these guys. They're. Everything in your life depends on these guys. Like it's, it's very similar to the military in, in that regard. Like you're off in some far off land with just the people around you. Your life depends on them. They depend on you. And that, that bond that you have, that you have to form it, that's, that's part of, that's, that's essential. Like it did. The work doesn't get done in an effective, safe manner without that bond. Like you can't get it done through an operations manual. And I get it. The rules, the safety, all that's valuable. Like there's, there's, there's, it's there for a reason. But if you're just trying to build that through a manual, it just doesn't know, it just doesn't work.
- [35:23]
A
It's why vets, I've always, always like leaned into supporting vets in trades and especially vets in line work. Because at this program I was an instructor at, we had people that would come to the program just like kind of fresh off the street, kind of not, not like apply to the program and then get in. But they'd have to work for a Kwanzaa operating unit. And then they kind of get selected to go to here. But they'd had minimal experience, whether life experience or job experience. Right. And then you have military veterans that come into the program through the Veteran Electrical Entry program, the Veep program. I'm not sure if you know about that program, but WICKED program for helping veterans, you know, get into the line trade. And so they would apply to the program. They come in, they get selected, they. They show up at the school. They have this. Most of them, not all of them. Most of them have this wealth of experience, not like just life experience. Right. Like all these things we just talked about. They've done things like you've got little Davey over here that's never done laundry before, and you've got this, you know, same age guy who's led people, you know, in life and death scenarios. Some FOB in eastern Afghanistan. Like, it's different. It's different. And they would bring that to the job, and you could just see the difference. Like, you put them together and you're like, davey, go learn from John. Go, like, get some of what he's got out of him. We'll teach you the line work side. That's easy. But, like, what you need to learn is that those leadership skills or those communication skills or those just like those skills of not getting butt hurt. If your instructor or your lineman's seeming like he's hazing you, he's not hazing you. He's trying to get you to, like, level up because you suck at this thing you're trying to do.
- [37:24]
B
And he's being a lot nicer to you than the guys out in the field will be.
- [37:27]
A
Yes.
- [37:31]
B
No, I think, I think, like, line work trades in general for veterans is. Is. It's as perfect of a world as it gets back into the civilian life. I know a lot of them go into law enforcement, which is great, but I've talked with enough guys to know law enforcement is not the right place for a lot of people out of the military. But the camaraderie you get, the hard work, the satisfaction, you don't really find that anywhere. But the trades and, and the veterans, I know that I've got into the trades, they've done really well because they have those skills that are very applicable. Yeah. They have to learn a different skill set, which is not shooting, moving, whatever it is. It's. It's. It's line work, it's underground utility work, it's grading a road, whatever. But they have those fundamentals which apply quite nicely.
- [38:23]
A
Yeah, I actually got a really cool story. I've shared it a few times. This guy's been on the podcast, a veteran, Air Force veteran, two tours in Afghanistan, came back from a second tour, had to get medically discharged from the military because of some stuff that went down. Severe ptsd, like, severe trauma, like, was not in a good place, came back home. So now he's left the military, which was giving him purpose, direction, you know, brotherhood, camaraderie, all of those things. Right. Is what the military provided for him, not from things that he did. Had to be, you know, discharged, and now you're cut off from that. So this is a story that is not new with vets. That happens every day with veterans, whether they have to leave or it's just time. Their time's up and they, like, leave. Right. So now what do you do? You come, you're forced into civilian world. And like you said, what are you going to do? Going to law enforcement, something like that. You come, you. You typically come back not knowing where to go, what to do. So little direction, Right? So this guy, Noah, he bought his uncle's bread route. So I'll rewind a little bit. He text me or DM me on Instagram one day. So this is a guy again. Like, you never know who's listening. So when you put out this content, you never. So he'd never followed. He hadn't followed my accounts up to this point. He never interacted with any posts, never, never liked, never commented, never nothing random. Dm. One day. Hey, Ryan, my name's Noah. I'm an Air Force veteran. I'd love it if I could get on the phone with you. I have a really amazing story about how you helped save my life. Do you think I could talk to you? And I was like, okay, you know, I'll give you my number. Yep. Get on the phone with them. And he starts sharing this story. You know, up to this point, now he's discharged from the military. He's like, I. I bought my uncle's bread Road. And he's like, eight hours a day, Ryan, sitting in a bread truck, delivering bread with severe PTSD and trauma just in your own head. No one's. I was losing it. He's like, through this. I found your podcasts. So I started listening to every I. For two years, I'd been putting out episodes. Now he's like, I started listening to episodes about line work. And he's like, one day, I found myself at home sitting on the edge of my bed, alone by myself, in a bad place. He's like, I had a pistol and I was ready to just like, not be here anymore. He's like, I kept thinking about two things, though, and these two things saved my life. He's like, I just recently had a baby. So I was thinking about that baby and I kept hearing your voice. I was like, okay. He's like, you kept talking about this trade and this job that, you know, had a sense of purpose and camaraderie and brotherhood and excitement and, you know, working with your hands and being outside all the time and like, all of these things that I just, I was just a lineman talking to linemen about line work. It's, you know, to the rest of the world, maybe boring, but to this guy, he was like, maybe this, maybe this could be something. Maybe this could be something I could do. So he's like, I decided to put the gun away and I decided to pursue a career in the trade. It took me 12 months. Finally found a co op that gave me an opportunity at an apprenticeship. Fast forward a few years, now he's a lineman. He just texted me the other day that he's got an opportunity now to shadow the engineer and the, the co op is going to put him through engineering school. So he's all excited about that. He's going to become an engineer. He's alignment as well. He's got this future, he's got purpose, direction. He's got four kids, beautiful wife, a total life now. And I know that's, that's the extreme side of it, but that's kind of like why I do it. I do it for Noah and whoever else is because the trades can provide that for people.
- [42:34]
B
Oh, I, I, and that story is probably not that unheard of.
- [42:41]
A
No.
- [42:41]
B
In the grand scheme of things, how, you know, say I'm a, I'm a kid, I'm 18, I'm miserable in a job. I'm 27. I just got out of the military, whatever it is. How, when people ask how I, you know, how can I get in? What do you, what do you tell them?
- [43:00]
A
So I tell them one of the best ways that I know to get into the line trade, if you're a veteran, is through the VEEP program. There's a lot of other ones. There's helmets to hard hats. There's a lot of other veteran programs that do a really great job. They all, they're all rooted in the right purpose. Right. The veteran electrical entry program was because I work for Quanta Services. Quanta is deeply involved with it on the line side. It also exists for the electrical side, like electricians. But the power line side, they decided to come in and help grow the program. So you can apply to the program. It's into veep.com in the number two, veep.com you can apply to the program. It's not guaranteed. If you're selected, you can. You get basically to go to the Quantum electrical line work program at the Lazy Q. So it's a 15 week pre apprenticeship program, all expenses paid. In fact, you get paid to go through the school. You get all free tools supplied by Milwaukee Tools and Buckingham. So all your full kit, which is like a lot of money, a lot of money worth of gear. Right? It's all through the program. Here you go, free tools, free training, and you get a guaranteed job with Quantum Co. When you come out of it. And direct entry or direct interview with an IBEW apprenticeship district. Basically you get to kind of choose where you want to go. You get, you know, top two choices. But anyway, you come out with an apprenticeship, a job, tools and training. It's the best way to get in.
- [44:45]
B
That's amazing.
- [44:46]
A
It's the best way to get in that I know of.
- [44:48]
B
That's.
- [44:48]
A
That's really something for vets. Yeah, it's a little bit more difficult for civilians. It's a incredibly hard job to get into. Can be an incredibly hard job to get into if you only want to stay local. And this is the thing, this is a question I get asked constantly, all the time. And I know a lot of people say this is the question I get asked all the time, but legitimately is, is how do I get in? You have to be willing to move around and take advantage of opportunities. Your opportunity might not exist in your small little hometown in Arkansas. So you might have to go to California, you might have to go to the mountain states, you might have to travel and take your chance on that. There's lots of. 99.9% of people won't do that. I got another guy that's been on the pod a couple times. This is how he got into line work. He tried in California. He came to the International Lineman Rodeo in Kansas City one year, met a business manager or something for the IBW local in Texas. Was just talking with him, hey, do you got any jobs in Texas? I would love to get into the trade. He's like, yeah, if you can be here Monday, if you show up in Monday. He's like, he's at the rodeo on Saturday. He's, he leaves the rodeo, goes back to California, loads everything in his truck, drives back to Texas and he's in a job starting Monday. That wouldn't have happened if you'd be like, oh yeah, no, maybe I'll give you a shout again, six months, see if like you got to take advantage of opportunities when they present themselves and you gotta be willing to go.
- [46:21]
B
Yeah. And there's so many people that are looking for jobs that are honestly just, they don't know any better in a lot of cases, but they're just lazy.
- [46:29]
A
Yeah.
- [46:30]
B
Yeah. I've applied online. Congratulations. Like, wow, very cool. Like, I, I, that's another one. Okay. I mean, that's great. Like, but, but the odds of you actually getting a gig applying online right now are very, very, very, almost non existent.
- [46:46]
A
I just said that to my 20 year old. I got a 20 year old son struggling to get a job.
- [46:50]
B
Huh.
- [46:51]
A
I was like, nolan, print your resume off. He's like, what do you mean I apply online? I know that's the type of kid you are. I know you're an online kid. You grew up in this. You're Gen Z. I know. Just take it from me, please. Print the thing off. Dress nicely, go into the, he's trying to get at a restaurant. Just go into the restaurants around town, present yourself nicely, shake somebody's hand, look them in the eye, tell them who you are, give me your, Talk to them.
- [47:21]
B
Yeah.
- [47:22]
A
A week and a half later he had a job.
- [47:23]
B
Yeah, go figure. Yeah, just saying. Yeah, go figure.
- [47:26]
A
Tried for six months.
- [47:27]
B
It's that, that's, that I know is scary, but it puts you ahead of like 99% of people. If you just call, if you just go into the office, if you just shake somebody's hand, if you just look somebody up on LinkedIn, send them a message, hey, can I, can I talk to you on the phone? I'm really trying to get into this. I haven't been able to figure it out. I'm not looking for a job. I just need some advice. Like, like meeting people, like go to the, to the rodeo. I mean, that's like, I've said that to people too. There you go.
- [47:59]
A
Like, that's, you get them from all over the place.
- [48:01]
B
You've got the whole country in one spot like that, that's like the golden goose right there. But you have to, you have to put effort in and then, and, and you have to demonstrate that you're worthy of hiring. Like, I get it, it's, it's, it's an Employee's market right now, but not for the best in class companies. Best in class companies. They're not hiring just anybody, they're hiring the best. And you've got to say, hey, I might not have the skill set yet, but I've got what it takes. I'm at least hungry. I'm always here. Give me a shot. Yeah, there you go.
- [48:35]
A
Yeah, that's the other side of that. Like when you're in your 20s, you don't have a network. And this is what I've been telling younger people as well, is build a network of people around you. So like you said, you know, shoot somebody a message on LinkedIn. Shoot somebody message, Go meet people in person. Just like. But don't, don't do it with the intention of getting something in return. Just do it with the intention of like building a network, meeting people. Just talk normally to these people. Start becoming front of mind. Like, I got this one kid that has been trying to get into trade. He's an electrician, he's been trying to get into line trade. Just, you know, DM me on Instagram started, we started talking about Formula one, you know, and now. And we start talking about cars. I'm into Porsches, like things like this. And now he's top of my list because we've connected on another level. That's what you got to do with people, build some sort of a network. A female apprentice in, in Ontario, Canada, had her on the show mackenzie. I was asking her what she did to separate herself from the pack because she'd go to line school and it was a pre apprenticeship school. She still didn't have a job with any utility or any company yet. And she was looking for somebody, a sponsor to give her a chance at apprenticeship. Like, what did you do? She's like, I'd go to pre apprenticeship class and I'd spend all day there climbing poles, learning. And then I go back to my room and instead of going out with the group to the restaurant or the bar or whatever, she's like, I go home, I'd get ready, I take a train into the city on Fridays or whatever. Take a train into the city and I'd go to whatever networking event I could go to, I'd go to whatever trade show I could go to. And I just started talking to people. She met somebody from Ontario Hydro or Hydro One, and next thing you know, she had an apprenticeship position above anyone else in her class.
- [50:33]
B
Go figure. Yeah, yeah, you. But this is what I try to like get into people is like your Career is your responsibility. Your future is your responsibility. If you're putting your future into somebody else's hands, that's a pretty foolish place to be in. Like.
- [50:53]
A
Man.
- [50:53]
B
Like, I don't envy anybody like that. I am. You got to take the bull by the horns. And I know it's easier said than done, and I know I'm sitting from a very privileged. Like, I'm an employer. So, like, I don't. I'm not on a job hunt right now, and I'm not demoralized, but that's what I did. Like, that's kind of how I got here. Was. Was. Yeah, I did. I did just that. And I. That's how I got my first gig in construction. I called the company, I met with the owner. I asked to meet with the owner. My dad didn't give me the intro or anything like that. I just called the damn number on the Internet that anybody else can. Can see as well. It's right there. I mean, it's. It's. All the information is there. People are wildly accessible right now, and yet people just aren't. Like, I've applied. I've been applying for six months. I've applied to 183 jobs. I'm like, dude, if you've applied to 183 jobs and you haven't had any success, I don't know, like, maybe let's try something else here. Like, maybe there's an alternative strategy, because this one doesn't seem like it's doing very well for you. And yes. Do I wish companies did a better job managing online applicant, so on and so forth? Yeah, sure. But it's not reality. Their hiring system is probably an absolute cluster. You could blame it all day long. You still don't have a job. That's your problem.
- [52:14]
A
I would also challenge. Like, did. Did none of them call you back or message you back? Did any of them call you, message you, and say there was an opportunity in Nebraska and you turned it down because you live in Florida?
- [52:29]
B
Yep, yep, yep, yep. Like, that's a good point.
- [52:32]
A
Take advantage. Like, yeah, construction's mobile, man. Like, you're not gonna be. That's the other thing with trades. Majority of them, you got to be mobile. You got. You gotta be willing to travel, willing to go.
- [52:45]
B
Yeah.
- [52:45]
A
At least to get your foot in the door.
- [52:47]
B
Yeah. Well, yeah. And, I mean, there's some companies that won't even hire you. Like, I. I went to work for one company. I was under no impression that I got to tell them where I was going. Like, they gave me a list, like, list out what states you want to go to. Give us your 5 preferences. It was probably just to make me feel good. I didn't care. Screw you, dude. I got really lucky. I went to a great place, but if I had said, no, I don't really want to go there, they'd be like, cool. And then I'd be looking for another job. That's just not how it works. And, and you know, being at home is great, but again, we need like, especially in the, in the lineman world. Transmission infrastructure. It's in the middle of nowhere.
- [53:32]
A
Yeah.
- [53:33]
B
That's how it works. We need people to build and maintain it in the middle of nowhere. That's just the reality of the work.
- [53:40]
A
And these big projects now are crossing two or three or four states.
- [53:45]
B
Yeah. From one end to the other.
- [53:46]
A
It's crazy.
- [53:47]
B
It can be a day's drive from one side of the project to the other, like Sun Zia. I mean, it's, it's out there. And so, yeah, I mean, you could be on the same job and work in multiple states within that, that one job, which is a wild concept as well. Yeah. Just. I don't know. But you can almost tell and in some ways, like who's gonna make it, who's not, based on how hungry they are and how willing they're just. Yep, cool.
- [54:15]
A
There's been a few people that have surprised me and have. It's taken a while for them to figure it out, but once in a while. So that's, that's what's difficult too, because like, all the sooner you can get there as a, as a kid, or not a kid, but like your early 20s, if this is what you're doing, the sooner you can get to this point of like, okay, I'm cool with this. The better it's going to be for you and the more opportunities you're going to have. Because I have seen it where it's taken a few years for some for it to click with somebody and then all of a sudden they're solid, they're good, the rest there. But if you can make a click for yourself a lot sooner and just say yes, like, say you, you kind of have to, like, you kind of have to earn the opportunity to say no or earn, earn the, the ability to say no. But until that, you have to say yes to everything. You know, like, you hear a lot of this online, like, we gotta, we gotta say no to more things. It's like, no, no, dude, you can't say no. You cannot say no for 10 years. You have to say yes to absolutely everything.
- [55:18]
B
Sure.
- [55:19]
A
But I promise you, if you say yes for that 10 years, you'll be able to say no the rest of your life.
- [55:25]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [55:26]
A
Or you just get to choose.
- [55:27]
B
Yeah.
- [55:27]
A
Not that you're saying no, it's like, you know, I'm going to go here instead. And you can choose that because you.
- [55:33]
B
Have the market value at that point, because all the experience you've built up. But yeah, you've earned that. Earned that position. No, you're. I mean, yeah, you're in a. It's a unique position. I don't know many. Like you were saying, I think in the beginning, I don't know of many other infrastructure focused podcast like to throw Quanta a huge bone. They let you go where you want to go, which is the huge mistake I see a lot of big companies make. Yeah, well, we need a podcast because we're a big company and that's like, that's the thing. We need a podcast. And it sucks.
- [56:06]
A
It's super corporate, super bad because they're just filter.
- [56:10]
B
It's, it's. Oh yeah. It's just like, who is going to listen to this? Nobody is the answer. But in the money they spend on producing these when nobody's listening, it's just like, it's just not interesting. You're talking to people that, I don't know, I, it's, it's, it's everywhere now. Very rarely is there a show within this realm that lets you just talk to who you want to talk to, go where you want it. Like you even went recently. Somebody within mental health. She was.
- [56:41]
A
Therapist.
- [56:41]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Therapist. Yeah, therapist. Like, yeah.
- [56:45]
A
I'm trying to have, I'm trying to have real conversations and keep it as real as I can because I was a lineman for 15 years. I know what it's like to sit in a crummy on a. Right away. Sit on tired. I know what it's like to have a bunch of friends, if not yourself, deal with a bunch of problems and issues in everyday life, life on the road. Like, I haven't been with my family in a month and a half and the company's asking me to stay here on the job site and finish it off and it's going to take another 20 days or, you know, like I've been in northern Alberta in January and February and if you don't know where that is, it's way the hell up north, like Fort Mac, like minus 40 every day for two months. Like this sort of place. You leave your trucks running all day 24 7. You don't shut them off because you've shut them off for five minutes. They're not going to start again. I know what that's like. I know what a drain on mental health, physical health, just like I know what that is. And if I lose talking about that with people, then I've lost the purpose for why the show exists. So, like, when people start these podcasts, they don't have a real purpose. Their purpose is, like, what they think is just to market their company. Yes, but you're gonna go further, marketing your company by being real and doing things like building trust. You're talking about just trying to keep the trust, Build the trust. Like, let people know that these are the real things. These are the real subjects. Yeah, I sometimes get hounded by the line workers out there, like, why don't you talk about more like, line work stuff? I'm like, because why don't you just sit beside the guy in the pickup and talk about, like, you talk about it. Nobody wants to talk about a three phase cut and kick in an Intersect. Like, nobody cares about that, that you just did. Let's talk about the real things that matter, like your mental health, the mental health of your buddies, the, you know, leadership problems you're dealing with on a daily basis and can't get ahead of or can't figure out yourself. Let's talk about communication, like, whatever those. Let's talk about those subjects. And I'm not interested in, you know, doing the corporate marketing thing.
- [59:12]
B
It's just, it's just terrible.
- [59:15]
A
I don't care about putting your logo on things. In fact, take the logo off of everything. Because you know what? I'm gonna. How many times have I mentioned Quanta in this pod? That's enough. People are smart enough to go figure it out on their own. You know, you don't need to put the logo on top of this now.
- [59:31]
B
Yeah, sure, you know, yeah, yeah. Or when you do put the logo on it now you're like, more restricted because like when we. Yeah, I mean, when, trust me, I. Like when I. When I can avoid saying a company's name. I do now. Yeah, because. And I, I want to say it and I want to. And in positive ways. Like, I want to get it out there, but then now, like, their brand's involved and it makes approvals more difficult. And it's like, okay, fine, like, I just. We just won't give you any of the exposure. That's honestly very valuable at this Point. But I just don't want to deal with you. So if you want to come along, great, let's. I'm going to be a great partner. I need you to be a great partner. But if you don't want to be on here.
- [60:12]
A
Yeah, whatever.
- [60:16]
B
The, It's a cool format too, especially from like the mental health side of things because you can, you can get in depth on it and talk about, have real conversation, but talk about like real tools, I think not the, the problem, but the, the, the challenge with mental health, especially within the trades, is like, you know, everybody's saying we need to talk about it. It's like, okay, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we do.
- [60:48]
A
Yeah.
- [60:49]
B
And are we gonna talk about it? How do we talk about it when we talk about it? And it's not good. What do I do? How do I respond? Like, I have no tools to talk about it. Like, you know, we need to, we need to fix that pole. Okay, but we have no tools. There's no truck. There's like. I agree. We do need to fix that poll. How are we going to do it? Like, there's no how, there's no follow up. Because it's, it's complex. It's very gray. It's, it's, there's so many different shades to it. And in a short form world or in a formal world or on a job site even, it's just the, it's not, it's not the format. But if you can go have a conversation like that, that's an hour, hour and a half, whatever it is, and get into the weeds. Now, some guy in some truck somewhere driving to work, you know, with 60 minutes one way, windshield time can listen to it without anybody the wiser as well. Like he can, they can, they can get those, those real tangible tools without ever admitting to anybody that they're curious about it, that they're trying to figure it out themselves. It can just, they can get real information without even being vulnerable, which I think is actually quite valuable.
- [62:10]
A
Yes, I fully agree. And it's so many tradesmen heal hair. I don't believe in mental health. It's like, well, okay, let's talk about that a little bit for a second.
- [62:22]
B
How many times you've been divorced?
- [62:24]
A
Yeah, right. Like everybody has their own stories. I personally have three stories of how a mental health issue took the life of a friend in the trades. Not this is even outside the trades, we all have that story. But three tradesmen that I knew personally lives were taken by themselves alone at home because of, because of problems with mental health. And then if you peel that onion one layer back, this is what I've been challenging people with lately too, is like, how many job site incidences, whether it's a fatality or just a workplace accident happened. You know, safety loves to throw. Throw things like, okay, well, how do we solve that problem? What barrier do we put in place to prevent that from happening?
- [63:21]
B
How many more pages do we need to add to the.
- [63:23]
A
So if you peel the onion one layer back, how many of those issues or incidences were caused by a person that showed up to the job site not fit for duty, but they started work anyways, their mind wasn't in it, they weren't thinking straight because they had something going on at home, they had something going on in their life and it was preventing them from doing their job like they know how to do. Because they all know how to do it. They all done these. Chances are they've done these things a million times. If, if they presented with the chance to do that thing over again, they probably would have done it over again in a different way and chose not to do it the way they did. That got them hurt. But they did it because they weren't thinking clearly because of a mental health problem. So do you believe in physical health? Yes. Mental health's no different. Mental illness is different, but mental health is not different. Mental health is something we all have and we can all work on every single day, just like we can work on our physical health every day. And then I'd say start with your physical health if you're running into problems mentally, mental health wise, what's your physical health like? Because it's pretty hard to be in a poor mental state if you're exhausting your body every day. You know, in a good way, you're working out, you're going for a run, you're doing contrast therapy. Like, I don't know, you're doing something physically. It's pretty hard to be in a, in a bad mental state in an ice bath. You know what I mean? Like, just try some of these things. Start there, start working on your physical health first and see how your mental health kind of falls in line. Because if you start paying attention to your mental health as well, that brings you into the world of dealing with mental health. Things that can help that, that side of things, you know, introduces you to different things like contrast therapies, like maybe therapy itself, maybe you got to go talk to somebody and just go talk to them. Hey, I've been dealing with these things. Do you have some tools for me to get like, you don't have to get into therapy, culture and now that becomes your identity and all that kind of stuff. That's not what I'm talking about either. It's just like go talk to somebody that can give you some professional tools to help you deal with the things you're dealing with.
- [65:39]
B
Sure. No, it's, it's, it's all inter. It's, it's, yeah, it's, it's been not frustrating, but a little frustrating that like safety is all about. Yeah. Process, procedures, rules, rules, rules, rules, rules, rules. But we're not going to talk about fit for work, which is sleep. We're not going to talk about the mental side of things. We're not going to talk about that guy being 200 pounds overweight. Like, we're not going to talk about what people are eating. It's just complete trash. And in a lot of cases, like you're in the middle of nowhere. I get why they're eating. I don't blame them for eating complete trash. But especially in line work, in trades in general, like your ability to produce and provide for yourself and your family is predicated on your body. Like that's the tool. It's not your tool. Like it's your body. That's the primary tool we've got here. And a lot of guys, they're not sleeping well, they're definitely not eating well, they haven't exercised in a long time. And again, I don't blame them. Like when you're working 12 hours a day, 14, 16 hours, especially on like probably storm, storm work, I'm sure you're working.
- [66:46]
A
Yep.
- [66:46]
B
Long hours in, in emergency situations, you're not going to go home. Like, man. Yeah, yeah. I just did a whole like multiple nights, just running hard. You know what I need to do is some sit ups. Like I'm good, I'm just gonna go crash. But it's, it's a slippery slope because then if you're, you're just not fit for work. And, and at that point you're not good for yourself, you're not good for others, you're not good for your family. And then what happens?
- [67:14]
A
It's steady downhill, you become addicted, you try substances, alcohol, alcohol, drugs, you know, everyone knows what kind of slippery slope that is.
- [67:23]
B
Yeah.
- [67:24]
A
Which means you don't eat well, which means you don't sleep well, which means your body's not recovering, your muscles aren't recovering, you're not producing testosterone. If you're a man, which Ends up meaning, you know, you need tests to sleep better, to repair muscle, to do the things you need to do. Like, it's, it's just a circle of nothingness, man. And it's so easy to get into that. But the good news of it is, is it's, it's honestly easy to get out of it too, you know, like, not easy to, you know, get over addiction and those sorts of things. Substance abuse, I'm not saying that's easy at all, but it's easy in the way that a couple of weeks, the other side of it, you look like and feel like a completely different person.
- [68:09]
B
Yeah.
- [68:10]
A
Like, it doesn't take a long time once you decide to make this switch and you start eating better, you start doing something of this stuff. It's, it's a, it's almost instant.
- [68:19]
B
Well, and you're the first. Yeah, you win.
- [68:21]
A
Yeah.
- [68:22]
B
Like, it's not. You win. Like, you're, you're better off. And I, I, I haven't met anybody that started eating better, exercising, sleeping better, whatever it is, not drinking less and been like, man, this sucks. Like, I feel worse. Like, I don't know about that.
- [68:37]
A
I wish I didn't go to the gym last night.
- [68:38]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I really regret going to the gym. Like, I, I've never regretted going to the gym. No, no, no. Yeah, it's. It's, It's. It's a big piece of it, and so it's, it's cool seeing those conversations happen. And there's a guy I had recently on. He's one of the best speakers on this subject, if you were ever looking for. But just really tangible. Here's the nuts and bolts tools. They're building an entire business centered around mental health for the trades.
- [69:06]
A
Connect me. That's awesome.
- [69:07]
B
Incredible. Yeah. This guy, Rich Jones, like, Like, he was, he was an addict himself.
- [69:11]
A
Cool. So that's not cool, but.
- [69:13]
B
Well, yeah, but, but that's, that's how he approaches it. It's like, I'm not here to lecture you. I'm not here to tell you that. Oh, I have this figured out. Like, no, I've been there.
- [69:22]
A
Still deal.
- [69:22]
B
Totally get it. Still deal with it every day. It's. It's very realistic. Completely changing subjects.
- [69:30]
A
Sure.
- [69:31]
B
One of the cooler things I've seen and I would love to get involved in is also that lineman rodeo you referenced. That's so badass.
- [69:41]
A
Yes. It's cool.
- [69:42]
B
Who does who. Like, how does that even come together?
- [69:45]
A
Yeah, it's. I think that they just did their 75th year now. It was just a group of linemen in Kansas. I think the Kansas City Power and light started it 75 years ago. And it's kind of snowballed into. It's like logger sports. For anyone who's not kind of like familiar with the world, you might be familiar with like logger sports and like logger sports days where you just like get a bunch of, you know, people to compete doing things that you do like on the job. So for us like a couple of the more popular or the things that they run annually like every year is like a speed climb. So you climb a pole as fast as you can. There's different ways they do it, but that's the gist of it is to get up and down as fast as as you can. And then there's Hurtman Rescue they call them. So they have a, you know, a dummy at the top of the pole and you gotta get your stuff on quick, get up there, rescue this guy, get him to the ground as quick as you can, that sort of thing. And they, they do different variations of it, but those are the two, two events that run every time. And then they'll sprinkle in the, over the next. Each year it's a little different. They'll sprinkle in two or three other events that are just, just new but they're work related things like tasks you do at work and yeah, you have your little three man team so you know, a groundman and two linemen and you just run these events. And so Kansas has the International Lineman's Rodeo. It's an annual event and it's the largest in the world of its kind. There's rodeos all over the country and all over the, all over the world now. But that one in Kansas is the biggest one. Like thousands of people show up to this. It's giant. So they have a, along with it they have an expo, like a tool expo. Actually a day before that or two days before that they have a safety conference as well. So they do a big safety conference and then they have their expo and then they have the Lyman rodeo on the Saturday and then everyone goes home on the Sunday and they do all of the like the awards ceremony and the awards banquet like the night of the rodeo too. So their turnaround on, you know who wins and all of that is done that like day of. And then they have the big awards ceremony and banquet and they usually have a singer to sing and it's a big show. There's like 4,000, 5,000 people, it grows every year. I think this year it's closer to 6,000 thousand people at the awards banquet. So it's. What's really, really cool about it too is it's. There's a couple things that I really, I really like about the Lyman Rodeos is it gives an opportunity for your families to come out and participate and see what you do, you know, man, woman, whatever. You, that's big, that's there. Your family gets to come out and stand on the sidelines, cheer you on, get to see exactly what you do. And just like all of the tools and the people that are there from within the industry, whether it's you got the guys that make the belts or the Milwaukee's that make the tools or like whoever is making the stuff that help us do our jobs, they're all there too, and they have fun things for the kids to do. It's a real family orientated event as well. And then when it comes to like the event itself and the awards ceremony and banquet, you get to highlight the trade and the industry. And you see this in academics a lot. And this is what I hate, that you don't see this in the trades, but academics do this and I don't, I guess they do a good job. I will give them their flowers for now, but they make a point of, you see this whether it's at, in your kids elementary school or it's at university. Teachers come up on stage and I'd like to recognize this professor for doing such a good job this year. And like, like it's cool because they're recognizing what you're doing for a career. Like this. Prof. Or this teacher helped this group of students do this this year. Or we're just giving recognition and flowers. That doesn't exist in the trades. You go into the trades and if you're an instructor or if you're a teacher or if you're just a worker in the trades, it's just like, here's your paycheck, we'll see you on the next one. In fact, we probably, we might not even have another job for you to go to. So I don't know, go find your own way, right? You don't get recognized and here you get put on a pedestal. This is what you do. It's a very dangerous job. We're here, we're doing it in the name of safety and, and competition and love of the profession that we've chosen. And then we get recognized for it at the end and there's a big stage there's big giant awards that are like this freaking tall which is super cool and it's in front of 6,000 people and it's like, look at what these guys did. Look at who they are. And this year was particularly cool because it was storm season. So there was a lot of people not there because they were out on the road working storm. So they recognize that, you know, like there's like a few hundred linemen that aren't here right now because they're in Florida right now putting the power on. And then they show a big video of that. And it's just, it's recognition, right. It's. It's awareness for the trade, for the industry, which I think there needs to be more of. That's part of the reason why we do what we do. You.
- [75:24]
B
But that, that event. Yeah, I've just, I want to, I want to come next year or this year, I guess.
- [75:29]
A
Is it October?
- [75:30]
B
October, mid October. I would love to go. Cuz it just looks extraordinary. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Now the storm thing is also very interesting. Like I feel like 2020 was very telling or natural disasters are very telling of what's really necessary.
- [75:47]
A
Yeah.
- [75:47]
B
In society. Like in 2020, I mean a lot of people just had their jobs shut off and the world kept moving, which to me like that, I think that that messed a lot of people up. That would mess a lot of people up because your whole purpose is rooted in that. When you find out that you're not really essential, you're not labeled as essential.
- [76:11]
A
Yeah.
- [76:11]
B
Well, but with like that aside, storms I think are like, you find out who really builds and maintains a community when storms happen in natural disasters and I've had the opportunity. I've seen tornado, I've seen hurricane, I've seen fire a few times. And in every one of those scenarios it's a bunch of hard working people that are there getting everything back together. And like, I mean the, the only recognition linemen get are before a hurricane rolls into Florida, typically they've got the videos of the, you know, the 700 bucket trucks sitting there and all the linemen just hanging out, you know, just waiting. Like everybody is going this way and they're all coming right to where the storm is going to strike before it's even there. And it's just like, wow, all right. Like these are the people, these are the, these are the, this is the glue that holds this whole thing together. And these people, they're not just crazy enough to climb up these poles, but they're crazy enough to be like, hey, someone's got to do it. Let's get in the truck. We're going to Florida, storm's coming. And then they just sit there, let the storm roll through, tear up whatever's going to tear up, and then they go right to work. Yeah, it's just like, wow.
- [77:41]
A
The part of the story that a lot of people don't see as well is the mobilization part. And they see the bucket trucks. They see the bucket trucks mobilizing. So they see that's what, you know, everyone takes those videos of the 700 trucks rolling down the highway and showing up with their buckets, you know, but each one of those trucks has one or two people in it, right? And that person. So here's, here's my own personal experience with that. I live in central British Columbia, Canada. I was on my four wheeler quad in the bush with my kids. My phone was buzzing in my pocket. Shut the quad off. Answer the phone, Ryan. Hurricane east coast Connecticut. This was hurricane Sandy, east coast, Connecticut. He's like, the guy on the phone's like, how, how soon could you be in Vancouver? Well, six hour drive. He's like, you got to get here as quick as you can. So one moment I'm on a quad in the bush driving trails, riding trails with my kids. You know, within 45 minutes, I'm fully packed, passport in hand, driving my truck as fast as I can to the place where the private jet's gonna take off. Or it's a rented jet with, you know, know 30 people on it. Sure, get yourself here. If you're here by, you know, 6am Tomorrow morning, we're on the jet, we're flying to Connecticut. Boots on ground. Within 24 hours. It feels like the seals, man. Like within 24 hours, you're getting the call to boots on ground in Connecticut. Some backwoods, you know, place in Connecticut, restoring power. Like, it's just, it's a wild. And everyone's got their story like that. And. And then what they don't show too is they show those bucket trucks in the field with their booms in the air, but then they show nothing after. So, like there's the before. The after portion is two to three weeks later, I'm still there wearing the same kit I've wore for three weeks. Nobody's like, you don't have time to wash stuff. You've been working 16, 18, 20 hours a day, your work. You're sleeping in man camps. Or some of these guys are setting up hammocks off the back of their truck. Like also the powers out to 3 million people. So. And the hurricane just came through, so there's no restaurants open, there's nobody making you food. Like, if your company or the organization you're working with isn't set up to help you, like, get you the food you need, the sleep that you need, like, you're running on fumes. And you're doing it for a couple reasons. It's like, yeah, the paycheck is freaking great. Let's just. You get paid really well, I'm sure.
- [80:26]
B
Yeah.
- [80:26]
A
And that is one of the reasons people go. But the other reason is, is we do it to serve. We want to help people. We want to help people by doing the thing we know how to do. If we can restore normalcy as soon as we can to you guys, like that's what we do it for too. There's nothing better than, you know, plugging a cut out, Plugging a switch and seeing the lights go on to an entire neighborhood. And everyone's out there just like, yes, like, sweet, I got my life back. Because you can't live in today's world without electricity.
- [80:54]
B
Yeah.
- [80:54]
A
You just can't live in America today without electricity.
- [80:58]
B
Yeah.
- [80:58]
A
Yeah. So that's what they don't show as well is like the two, three weeks later and just that guy is like killing himself to try to make things happen. So. Yeah. Yeah. I wish they'd show that a little bit more too, that, that side of the story.
- [81:14]
B
We, we went to the, to Altadena in February, so it was maybe like three weeks after the fire rolled through. And just the entire town, it was all linemen, gas guys, all utility workers just trying to get everything back on because there were, I mean, most of the houses were completely gone, but. But some were still there. But your house isn't worth anything without power, without water, without gas. It just doesn't. It's not livable. And even me, I'm pretty plugged into everything. It was shocking just how many utility people were there working away. Not a single camera, no fanfare, nobody to see it. But they're there getting the lights back on. Because without that can't do anything else. And it's you just every time you flip the switch, the lights come on. Like the hope. My whole life has been like that.
- [82:15]
A
Yeah.
- [82:15]
B
Every time I've. And if, if it doesn't happen, something's wrong. But when something's wrong, I'm always like, well, someone's gonna go fix it. You don't think twice about who's fixing it though. Who's out there, the storms happening. There's. They're out there fixing it. Like, they're. Someone has to fix it. You don't think about those people, but. But they're really damn important when you don't have what you should.
- [82:39]
A
And it's not ideal working conditions either. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, they're getting paid well. But if you think about where hurricanes hit or like, it's Florida and you're working in the swamps, like, how many gator interactions has there been? How many, like, snake interactions? How many times have you, like, how many people out there have been wet for hours and had to work like that and being chafed and like, just miserable in the heat that comes after a hurricane too. You know, that damp, like humidity and then skip to California or something like that. In fire scenarios, like, it's devastating to see, for one to witness what's happened in these areas. And you're now, like, in those scenarios, you're seeing all of people's homes gone, their lives gone. These. Like, you just see some really, like, weird stuff that you. Just affects you a little differently as a person as well.
- [83:39]
B
Yeah.
- [83:39]
A
Like, complete places ruined and destroyed. So you deal with that. Plus, like, it's soot and dirt and shit, like smoke. It's not ideal. It's not ideal at all.
- [83:53]
B
Yeah.
- [83:53]
A
To work in conditions like that.
- [83:54]
B
And this is just people. Well, but this. And this is where I start to find a little. It's just all the talk right now, even in the trades, like, about technology and, and VR and new equipment and so on and so forth and, and AI, and it's like, that's great, but there's still a job to do. That sucks and we need people to do that damn job. And even with recruitment, it's like, hey, we're being a little too. It's. It's. There's a little too much here. This is not for everybody. This will never be for everybody. It should never be for everybody. This is for people that have, like, they're a little wild. Like, they're. You've got to be a special kind of person to be like, all right, let's get on the plane. We're going to the storm. We're going to. We're going to work two weeks straight, three weeks straight, and get, get this done. You need a. You just need a unique kind of person.
- [84:53]
A
Yeah.
- [84:54]
B
And. And it's. It's not for everybody. And I think that also needs to be part of the messaging because these companies need people so bad they're like, oh yeah, it's for everybody. It's like, no, it's not. It's definitely not. This is brutal work, but this is vital. This is essential. If this work doesn't get done by these tough, tough, tough individuals, everything stops. It doesn't matter how much money you have, it doesn't matter what kind of car you drive, where you live, you don't have power. Sorry, you are out of luck. And so it's, it's just like in that, you know, I've always gravitated towards dirt because tractors and bulldozers, I mean, it's, they're cool. Yeah, it's pretty cool, let me tell you. But as I've gotten further and further into it, what I've really fallen in love with is, is critical infrastructure. But then the people that build and maintain that critical infrastructure, I just find them just remarkable individuals, especially in power. Because power is witchcraft and I don't understand any of it. And yet they're there just making it happen. Working on these lines with bare hands hanging off a helicopter. It's like, how aren't they dead right now? I don't know.
- [86:11]
A
But I was trained my whole, like your whole apprenticeship. And then as a lineman, if you hear this noise that is like an electrical sound, like, like you've maybe heard this before, it's usually something bad.
- [86:25]
B
Right.
- [86:26]
A
But then you get trained in doing energized bare hand work, it's called where you actually work on energized conductor. You know, I was, I had fortunate ability to, some could say fortunate ability to work up to 500,000 volts because we have those on transmission lines in BC, Canada. So 500,000 volts energized. Just get right on it and work whatever you need to do on the conductor. You know, bare hand methods they call it. It's not actually bare hands. You wear a suit. The suit is, the suit is essentially acting as a, as a metal cage around your body. It's a full suit. Like it's coveralls, it's jacket, it's gloves, it's socks, and they all tie together and it's fire retardant material mixed with like 25% stainless steel thread. So it's based off of like Michael Faraday's theory. You know, if you encase a man in a metal cage and energize that cage to whatever voltage, the energy flows around the man, not through them. It essentially creates a bird on the wire effect because at high, high voltages you have these electrical things going on you know, that can cause damage to your extremities, we'll call it. It's like the electrons in the outer orbit of the molecule spinning off into the atmosphere at a rapid, violent rate. If you put an obstacle on a conductor, like a body, a human body, if you got to see that, it's just this blow off of energy, right. That can eat away at your ears and fingers. And so the cage kind of like helps you at high voltages. Just be a bird on a wire, right?
- [88:04]
B
Yeah.
- [88:05]
A
So that stuff is like, it's. And when you get into that, when you get into that world, you now you bond yourself onto that. And when you're bonding yourself onto that, it's that noise, that bra. And then now you become part of this conductor and you can, you can hear things now that you can't hear when you're not part of that. You can hear the hum and the frequency of like the energy being created at the dam it's created at or whatever. You just hear this hum like you're just part of. You're part of this world now. And it's just so surreal and so, so strange. It's a weird feeling.
- [88:40]
B
And you're doing this while hanging off a helicopter.
- [88:42]
A
You can do it off a helicopter. Any, any insulated platform, like rated insulated platform. So you can do this. A helicopter is like a means of access, if you think about it that way. So is a fiberglass ladder that's swung out to the conductor with you on it. That's insulated. It's rated for it. It's just, you need to. Because you can't fly yourself like a bird and land on it. You need some way of access, right?
- [89:12]
B
Yeah, yeah. It's Sun Z was the first time I'd seen that. And we didn't even really get to see it because the winds were too high, so they couldn't get too close to the wires. But they were, the guys out there, they were chill as. As it gets. They're like, yeah, we can still go up and, I don't know, make some pictures happen. And they did. And we got some cool pictures as a result. But it was just like. Yeah, wait, you guys do what?
- [89:34]
A
Like that's just the regular helicopter work. That's just like using a helicopter to access.
- [89:39]
B
Yeah.
- [89:39]
A
You know, structures, wire, whatever you need to do.
- [89:42]
B
My mouth was just like wide open the whole time. Like you guys do what, like how close?
- [89:48]
A
Like a bucket truck.
- [89:48]
B
Yeah, it's just, it's just like guys going to work. Yeah, like he's hanging off the helicopter and the helicopter takes off and he's just, he's just hanging out. Like, he's just like resting alongside a post. Like, yeah, we're just. Yeah, going to work. Here we go.
- [90:00]
A
It's. It's a weird. There's something. It's not that something's loose, it's just, just. There's a thing inside the brain of these individuals that's just functioning differently than everyday people.
- [90:13]
B
I. And I. That's why I respect. I respect it to, to just no end. Because it's like, that's not how I work. Like, I, I couldn't do that. But thank God for these guys because without these people, I would not be around. Like, I am under no illusion that I could do what I do without these people. So every time I see these people at work, I'm like. The way I put is like, I feel like I'm a kid watching my dad work on the car or something like that. Like, I just think it is the coolest thing in the world because that's like so far over my head. But it's. I'm. But I'm seeing it. It's just. It's amazing. And then the helicopter has the little slicer on the front of the helicopter in case.
- [90:52]
A
Just in case it hits. Yeah, it's like.
- [90:56]
B
You have a wire cutter on your helicopter because I guess, yeah, you're working around the wire.
- [91:02]
A
So like I was explaining to you before, I used to do a little bit of that work. Just a little bit of sitting on the platform on the side of a helicopter. And I remember I was putting on some armor rod or something, shielding to protect the wire. I just remember looking down and seeing the tail rotor, you know, three, four feet off the wire. And then you kind of look up and, you know, six feet up or whatever is the main rotor. And then you just look at the pilot. Pilot's just calm, but his hands moving like this, making a thousand compensations with his feet in each hand. He's like playing drums and he's chill and you're chill and it's extremely surreal because you think everything is chaos and everything's out of control, but the teamwork between these two is on point. And is it safe? Yeah, it's as safe as crossing the road. You've trained for this your whole life. You've practiced this stuff. Like. So I guess that's what makes you kind of calm. It's like, yes, stuff can go. Can go sideways quick, but so can driving down the street. So can, you know, whatever. Going to the office every day. Yeah, it's as safe as anything when you really break it down.
- [92:20]
B
Well, it's just. They're total professionals.
- [92:23]
A
Total professionals.
- [92:24]
B
And that's what I find just so impressive. Like, man, they are professionals. They have this remarkable skill that's been honed over thousands, tens of thousands of hours. And that is, that is why they're able to do this.
- [92:39]
A
And you have to be a professional.
- [92:40]
B
Yes.
- [92:41]
A
Because if you weren't.
- [92:42]
B
Yes.
- [92:42]
A
Like, it's.
- [92:43]
B
You die.
- [92:44]
A
Like, you die and it happens a couple of times and then the industry shuts you down because this isn't a safe work practice. But with the amount of rotations that are happening on a daily basis now, meaning, like these pieces of equipment being used for work every day now, and industry, it's. It's countless. And yeah, they're. They're professionals.
- [93:04]
B
It's crazy. Yeah. I mean, like, one of the things said, and probably a lot of companies is like, well, it's not life or death. It's like, well, no, no, no. This is, this is you. You have to be locked in. In. It's just. I probably sound like an idiot talking about it, but I'm just so.
- [93:19]
A
It's cool.
- [93:20]
B
So amazed by it. I'm excited to get more into it. And the amount of line work happening now is seemingly more than ever before. And it only seems like it's going in one direction. So it's like being alignment is not something that. Yeah. You know, it used to be a big thing, but. But not as much anymore. It seems like it's only going in one direction.
- [93:42]
A
Yeah, it really has to because of the demand for infrastructure. Like, the data center demand was putting a lot of pressure on the infrastructure. Like the power utility infrastructure, space. I don't know where that sits right now with the things like deep seek and maybe data centers, like not needing to be.
- [94:07]
B
Yeah.
- [94:07]
A
Who knows?
- [94:08]
B
Let's pull small nuclear reactors in the parking lot. What people are saying, it's like, all right, okay, come on.
- [94:14]
A
So maybe it's eased a little bit, but I, I don't see, I don't see it that way. Like, especially in America with your current administration, like, the foot's on the floor with building and getting bigger, getting stronger, getting better, adding people to the country, like, and anything. Like, you're going to need more and more. There's going to be more and more of a demand for electricity because really that's the thing that powers everything right now. You've got gas and fuel and Oil powering on one side and you've got electricity powering things on the other side on the electrical side. So the thing with linemen and line work is you really don't make alignment overnight. And that's the thing. Like it's a craft, it's a trade and it takes time. You can't just like jump into it because it is life and death. If you look at line work and you look at the amount of things that can get you on it like that can kill you daily. You work with heavy duty equipment, you work with high voltage electricity, you work at heights, you work in traffic like it's countless alligators, gators, sleep deprivation.
- [95:30]
B
I don't know what.
- [95:31]
A
Yeah, it's, it, it's not that the corporate world, you know, doesn't have their own set of issues and I'm not. But it's not going to an office every day, you know, it's not sitting in a cubicle. It's not that it's completely different. So it takes a different kind of human to do it. And you can't just like raise that person overnight. So those are the issues and those are the problems. You can't just make them. So they're working at trying to solve that problem. Are they working, are they solving it fast enough? No. Yeah, they need to solve it quicker. They need to get people from A to B, like get them from zero competency to competency quicker. They're working on strategies for that. But it takes again it's going to take people coming together and trying to solve that problem together, not individually. You see a lot of like organizations trying to solve this problem of apprentices and how do we get apprentice to be alignment quicker without doing it too quick so that it's unsafe and like I don't know, big problems to solve. There's smart people working on it but like that those are the issues right now.
- [96:42]
B
Yeah, it's. But that's where I feel like a quanta is, has an advantage too because I think that's the real brilliance of Aquanta Services is let's get all these companies under an umbrella.
- [96:57]
A
Yeah.
- [96:57]
B
And let's support these companies and what they do. And I, I like I was telling you I, I thought quanta was more heavy handed than they are and it's like that's not the case at all because some companies, they buy companies to then hey you, you do it our way now like this is, I know it was this way before.
- [97:14]
A
Opposite.
- [97:14]
B
Yeah, it's like the complete opposite.
- [97:16]
A
You're, you're you're trying to, they have a decentralized approach.
- [97:20]
B
It's very decentralized.
- [97:22]
A
We will, you know, acquire your company, but then you run it. We're going to provide full support.
- [97:26]
B
Yeah, but let's still go in the same direction together. Which I think is, is very valuable as well. Because that, that fragmentation of the industry I think is one of the problems, that one of the reasons why this world, the trades, has been just walloped by corporate America in a lot of ways is because corporate America is just more consolidated, it just has greater scale and it can just, it just has more weight to throw around. Whereas if you've got, you know, a thousand different companies moving in a thousand different directions, you only have, you only, you can only have so much organization, so much workforce development, so much training. And it's like the training that needs to happen is kind of the same everywhere. Like, I know you got your special way to do it, but, but the basics are the basics. Everybody has this uniqueness bias. They all think they're special. It's like, no, it's, it's, we just need to teach the basics here. Everybody like, and if, and if we teach the basics for everybody, we're all better off. So instead of inventing it over here, inventing over here, inventing like, let's just figure it out and apply it across the board. Which Lazy Q is a great example of that.
- [98:32]
A
If you go to, if you go to the industry and you go to the trades, you say what? Like go to the, go to the field level workers and you say what do you need more of? Most of the time they say I need more training. Right. That's something that Quanta has recognized and invested in. They purchased Northwest Lyman College, so they have five or six now full line colleges where they take, you know, guys in, bring them in, teach them how to do line work and then try to put them in jobs in the end, get them into jobs doing this stuff and control the curriculum and the training. And then they have the lazy cue. The lazy cue, same thing on the pre apprenticeship side for alignment. But then they're, they're training aviation stuff. They're training high voltage techniques like bare hand work and hot stick work and these arts and crafts in our world. They're teaching them and investing in training their employees to be the best they can in the world at this craft. They've recognized it and they're pouring into it, which is something that you don't see with a lot of companies either. They just, they, you don't they do the generic training. They do, you know, whatever. What, what can we do to get by instead of, like, how do we revolutionize this and make our guys the best in the world at the things?
- [99:54]
B
Well, that's why I want to go. That's why I'm excited to go to Lazy Q whenever it works out, because I want to see how they're doing it, to apply it to other parts of infrastructure, like within civil construction. That's just not a thing. It's. It just doesn't exist. Anything and even, I mean, like, them buying the, The, The. The colleges themselves, I think is essential. I think there's. There's the need for the private sector to play a role here because everybody says, we'll go to trade school schools. It's like. But the trade schools don't exist really anymore. And if they do, they're struggling. Like, they're not getting the support. They've been squashed by higher education for decades. A lot of times. They've been squashed by the government for a long time. Like, they're, They're. They're. It's been hollowed out. The capacity isn't there. The capacity doesn't even close. Meet the demand. So we have to do something else, and I think we have to develop a lot of that ourselves. But let's not go develop it a thousand times. Let's develop it really nicely one time. Let's apply it to everybody. We're better off as a result. And that model that, that I see Quanta doing, I think will apply very nicely to other. Other parts of the industry.
- [101:04]
A
It's one of the reasons they're as successful as they are.
- [101:06]
B
I have no doubt. Yeah. Yeah, I have no doubt. Very good. Your podcast, how do people find it?
- [101:14]
A
It's Powerline podcast. Powerline podcast on everything that you can find on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, @Powerline podcast on all socials. Yeah. Come hang out there. Tell me who you are. Share something about yourself and what you're interested in. I love talking to people, trying to. My goal has been, like we talked about on the podcast, my goal with it has been over the years of doing it, to just represent the trade I come from. Not just the trade I come from, though. I talk about a lot of different trades within it. But, you know, the primary thing is geared towards Lyman. But like you said, I have mental health experts on there. I have sleep experts. I had, you know, former firefighter and podcaster on there recently as well. Talking about. He's big promoter of, you know, the effects of sleep deprivation. So I talk about that because it's something we deal with, no matter what trade you're in. I like to talk about subjects, leadership, communications, subjects that matter, no matter what trade you're in. So just because it's a power line podcast, don't let that scare you off. It's a. It's a decent source of free resource for you to come listen to experts.
- [102:25]
B
Oh, I think it's. Yeah. You. You do? It's very applicable to anybody, not even just in the trade rates, but I think it's just applicable in general, so. Right on. Well, I'm glad we got to sit down, shoot the boot for a little.
- [102:38]
A
Great.
- [102:39]
B
Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Appreciate you coming.
- [102:41]
A
Yeah.