From Family Business to Winning Major Contracts - Ricky Webb (DT 438)

Summary

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Dirt Talk Podcast Ep. 438 Summary

From Family Business to Winning Major Contracts – Ricky Webb (East Coast Demolition)

Host: Aaron Witt (BuildWitt)
Guest: Ricky Webb, Owner, East Coast Demolition
Date: April 30, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode features a deep-dive conversation between Aaron Witt and Ricky Webb, third-generation owner of East Coast Demolition (ECD), a leading abatement and demolition company serving North Carolina and Virginia. The discussion centers on how Ricky has guided the family business from its roots through significant growth, higher standards of safety and equipment, innovative thinking, and a focus on people—all to win major contracts and thrive in a competitive, challenging sector of construction. The conversation covers operational realities, leadership lessons, business philosophy, industry culture shifts, and the personal side of running a contracting legacy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Regional Construction Realities & Logistics

• Traffic and Access Challenges
  • Ricky shares the complexity of getting crews to jobs due to notorious traffic choke points, military base inspections, and inefficiencies with logistics in the Hampton Roads region.
  • “If you get stuck at the [tunnel], they’re not getting to the job site at 9, and there’s nothing you can do about it. …So the first thing everybody does… Well, they start going to the other [tunnel]… you’re done.” – Ricky [03:19]
• Owning vs. Renting Trucks
  • Ricky’s choice to own a truck fleet enables flexibility and efficiency, contrasting with reliance on unreliable rentals and idle time.
  • “You control your destiny.” – Ricky [06:49]
  • Employees have autonomy and company drivers help optimize site-to-site logistics and foster team cohesion.
• Operational Efficiencies Beyond the Spreadsheet
  • Many business decisions aren’t easily quantified (e.g., improved morale from owning trucks, brand recognition, culture).
  • “There’s so many benefits that you can’t really quantify.” – Aaron [08:08]

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2. Investing in People, Equipment, and Brand

• Employee Engagement and Pride
  • Empowering drivers with autonomy (“they want to run”), investing in comfortable, high-spec equipment, and recognizing their central role to project success.
  • “They’re invested. …They know that guy’s close to getting finished, so they’ll jump over there and knock that out.” – Ricky [09:56]
• Changing the Narrative Around Truck Drivers
  • Rejecting industry tendencies to treat drivers as second-class; instead, integrating them into company culture and process.
  • “Your whole job depends upon the truck drivers. So why wouldn’t you integrate them within the process?” – Aaron [11:43]
• Equipment Customization & Branding
  • Branding is approached as meaningful investment, not just expense—machinery wraps, colors, logos, and clean equipment elevate company image, morale, and advertising.
  • “If I do good work, why wouldn’t I want people to know it’s me?” – Ricky [14:21]
  • The company brand (“the claw”) acts as a recruitment and reputation tool, akin to the Nike swoosh.

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3. Balancing Tradition with Innovation

• Harmony Between "Old School" and New Tech
  • Bridging generational divides: Ricky leans into both old-school, tough-minded values and the appetite for innovation seen in younger employees.
  • “I’m like the middle. …getting them to understand that you can mesh those two things together is the hardest part. That’s what we’re trying to do right now.” – Ricky [28:47]
• Role of Instinct in Leadership
  • Not all business decisions should “pencil out”—sometimes leadership requires trusting gut instinct about what’s right for people, even if it isn’t spreadsheet-approved.
  • “There are so many decisions in business that are not necessarily… you’re not able to pencil them, but they’re the right decisions.” – Aaron [21:20]
• Innovating for Efficiency and Safety
  • European models (distinctive brand colors, tool sophistication, work sequencing) inspire ECD’s methods—faster tool-swap systems, custom wraps, and asset care drive productivity and resale value.
  • “When I go to sell that machine… that yellow [paint] is going to look OEM brand new. …Just like taking care of your asset.” – Ricky [17:37]
  • Adopting advanced equipment not just for efficiency, but for better work environments and retention—future-forward but rooted in hands-on practicality.

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4. Building Culture, Retaining Talent, Rewarding Loyalty

• Investing in Employee Well-being
  • Competitive wages, meaningful work, autonomy, benefits packages (including for diverse life stages), and encouraging long-term retention.
  • “It’s the coolest thing to see people enjoying their lives partially with what you’ve helped to create.” – Aaron [52:59]
• Open Communication & Leadership Vulnerability
  • Being clear and honest about what the company can—and cannot—do; humility in taking responsibility for mistakes; helping employees reach financial/retirement goals.
  • “Make the change and it might cost you. And on the spreadsheet it doesn’t look right… but their work life, when they come to work, they’re just happy that you invested…” – Ricky [24:35]
• The Journey from Labor to Leadership
  • Many employees rise the ranks via opportunity and happenstance, not rigid career ladders—luck and hard work both play a role.
  • “You create your own luck, you create your own opportunity, you create your own position.” – Ricky [82:28]

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5. Industry Realities: Attracting, Hiring, and Messaging

• Work is Hard, Not for Everyone—and That’s Okay
  • Rejecting sanitized, misleading recruiting pitches. Sometimes, authenticity is the best filter and draw.
  • “I would argue at least our industry would be better off just saying it’s not for everybody… It’s probably not for you.” – Aaron [95:13]
• Mentality for Success
  • The grind, adversity, and even suffering are formative, not to be avoided; the pride comes from overcoming difficulty, not seeking ease.
  • “Doing hard things… the benefit you get from it is massive.” – Ricky [92:09]
• Culture of Ownership and Training
  • Value in learning by doing and making honest mistakes; importance of mentorship and closing the skills gap with compassion, not ridicule.
  • “The biggest problem is…the guys will talk shit about them not knowing how to do it, rather than saying, ‘listen, man, this is how you do it.’” – Ricky [125:36]

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6. Safety: Equipment, Experience, and Changing Perspectives

• Personal Experience Reshapes Approach
  • Ricky lost a finger and broke his shoulder in a worksite accident, prompting a personal and company-wide shift in safety protocols and mindset.
  • “So glad it happened to me and nobody else… I was just, you know, young, 500 mile an hour… I bid jobs differently. I changed how we approach things differently.” – Ricky [106:13]
• Proactive Safety: Equipment and Planning
  • Investing in machines, tools, and site planning as the first line of defense—removing as much risk from personnel as possible.
  • Encouraging open calls from the field about unsafe conditions and resisting schedule-driven shortcuts from GCs.

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7. Legacy, Succession, and the Real Meaning of Business

• Not Just Building for the Next Generation
  • Recognition that succession is uncertain—values, adaptability, and team are more important than rigid plans.
  • “The world’s so different now for what our kids do… I’m not going to force my kids to do it… If they want to do it? Awesome.” – Ricky [88:25]
• Drive for Purpose Over Money
  • Personal fulfillment and pride is found in enabling others’ success, not just profit for owners; legacy is about building opportunity and resilience in others.
  • Echoing Steve Wozniak: “There’s nothing more gratifying… than seeing somebody… [buy] a new vehicle for themselves… after years at my company.” – Ricky [50:45]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Efficiency and Control
  • “If you don't control your trucks, you don't control your destiny.” – Ricky [06:49]
• On Branding
  • “Our claw, I want it to where I don't have to put East Coast Demolition everywhere. It's like a Nike swoosh.” – Ricky [15:07]
• On Leading People
  • “You have to have the humility to be able to step back and say, That was me. That was my fault.” – Ricky [25:30]
• On Industry Messaging
  • “I’m almost just tired of the conversation about how we need more people in the industry… What if all that’s wrong? What if we’ve never gotten respect? …But that’s the whole point.” – Aaron [68:33]
• On Safety after Personal Injury
  • “Now I'm like the top safety guy… you never realize how many people have appendages that are missing until you lose something.” – Ricky [106:13]

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Major Timestamps

• [03:19] – Local traffic/bases/logistics hurdles in regional contracting
• [06:49] – Why owning trucks gives ECD the edge
• [14:21] – The origin and impact of ECD’s branding/advertising approach
• [21:20] – The interplay of instinct and spreadsheet thinking in business decisions
• [28:47] – Bridging “old school” and new school mentalities
• [36:30] – The real skill in demolition—tool selection, sequencing, training
• [50:45] – Most gratifying aspect of business: seeing employee progress
• [68:33] – Reevaluating the industry’s attitude about seeking respect
• [106:13] – Ricky’s accident and lasting safety lessons
• [120:12] – How keeping equipment clean ties to work quality and safety

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is honest, humble, occasionally irreverent, and deeply respectful of those who do hard, vital work. Both Aaron and Ricky critique industry habits but do so from a place of constructive care and insider understanding. There are frequent anecdotes, genuine self-deprecation, and a spirit of camaraderie. The tone moves fluidly between operational detail, leadership philosophy, and reflections on life, legacy, and character.

Big Picture:
East Coast Demolition’s evolution is emblematic of how small, family-rooted contractors can win major work—not by chasing every penny, but by investing in people, forging a visible and proud brand, balancing old and new, learning from mistakes, and prioritizing safety and team cohesion. The industry needs more honest dialogue, not just better marketing, and a re-centering on proud, purposeful, hard work.

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End of summary.

Transcript

[Aaron]

The Stur Talk podcast episode is with Ricky Webb of East Coast Demolition. Ricky is the owner at ecd, a third generation abatement and demolition company serving North Carolina and Virginia. As he's taken over the business, he's focused on investing further in equipment, people and safety to compete at a higher level with major GCs in the United States government. I had briefly met Ricky years ago at a demolition event, but have watched him and the company on social media for years now. Have really enjoyed what they've done. It's been incredible to watch the company grow, change, invest in people, technology, process equipment. It is a blast. I think they're a great example of the next generation of contractor. I knew having them in here would be a great time and boy was it a great time. So with that, enjoy this episode with Ricky Webb at East Coast Demolition. I think there, there's a, there's the, the tunnel out in Seattle that went under Seattle. I feel like they're still in litigation over that one.

[Ricky Webb]

Really?

[Aaron]

And that finished up, they're finishing that up when I was in college, so maybe like 10 years of litigation, like, because they ran into a pipe. It was like a 12, 10 inch, 12 inch steel pipe and it's the largest tunnel boring machine at this time ever built. And it just mangles the cutting head. Oh no, just the machine. And it was so bad, it, it ruined the machine. And you can't just, you can't go into reverse.

[Ricky Webb]

No.

[Aaron]

So they had, they spent two years digging a shaft above the tunnel boring machine and then they had to build this massive gantry crane to pull it out, to rebuild it, to put it back in and then restart from there.

[Ricky Webb]

Dude, there's, there's times where I'm like, I think what I do is complicated. And then you hear stuff like that and you're like, you know, elementary to things like that. I mean to engineer that and bob and weave and do that kind of work. But gosh knows, I can only imagine the cost. The.

[Aaron]

Just that. Well, it's. That one went billions over.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Built like years and billions.

[Ricky Webb]

It's, it's necessary for what we have because it's almost like our area is like 10 years behind like growth in a sense.

[Aaron]

Right.

[Ricky Webb]

So I feel like like the roads, they should have been building these roads and these tunnels and stuff five years ago.

[Aaron]

Your area, most people don't even know about that area, but it's, it's notorious for. I remember like Carter Machinery is actually one of our very first customers.

[Ricky Webb]

Okay. Yeah.

[Aaron]

Huge shout out to Carter They've been great to us, huge supporters along the way. And I remember the first time I went out there, they're like, hey, you need to go out there at this time, because if it's this time, good luck. It's like, what are you talking about? There's nothing out here but these. It's like these tunnels and these certain highways are these choke points that's like you're going to be sitting there for two hours if you miss it, It's.

[Ricky Webb]

Well, it's funny. Like I came in this morning, right? Yeah, it's like seven o', clock, whatever. And there's like wrote in on the Uber. No, traffic seems kind of quiet, like sleepy around here and stuff in our area. Seven o', clock, there's already a line of traffic everywhere, you know, and so my guys, when they leave the shop and head up to Virginia and stuff, we have to account for a lot of that. We have to account for the traffic time. You know, like my guys come in at 6, but by the time they get to the job site, sometimes it's 7, 7:30. Well, if you get stuck at the modern Merrimack Bridge tunnel and you get a wreck, they're not getting to the job site at 9 and there's nothing you can do about it. Yeah, you're just stuck in traffic because you can't just go around the other way. The other way is another hour and a half, you'll leave and go. So everybody knows that there's a wreck at that tunnel. So the first thing everybody does, they get an alert on their phone. Well, they start going to the other

[Aaron]

tunnel and then just go, you get

[Ricky Webb]

a wreck on that tunnel, you're done. That's it. So like, you know, your client, you know, your general contractor is like, where's your guys at? And you're stuck in the tunnel.

[Aaron]

Well, well, but I, I feel like you all, that's all you have to say, and everybody knows it is.

[Ricky Webb]

They don't, they don't argue with you.

[Aaron]

I've been there three times this week.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Aaron]

And then you were saying because of the military bases, you, some of your guys, it takes you an hour just to get into the site.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah. So you get, you know, you get delayed at the tunnel and then you finally get to the base and then you got to go through truck inspection and. Well, everybody's getting there at the same time now because everybody got out of, let out of traffic at the same time. So now the line to get into truck inspection is, you know, 30 trucks long. Sure. And that's not a quick process, you know, so do they have to.

[Aaron]

And they have to visually inspect the whole truck?

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, you know, you pull up, open the hood, open the doors up, open your glove compartments, and they, you know, the. The truck inspections at some of these places are pretty legit. I mean, they have mezzanines where the guys can get up and walk and look in the back of the truck and stuff. So, I mean, it can be a process, you know.

[Aaron]

Is it like military police that does that? Yeah, yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

But I mean, you know, you get in there and then you finally get to the job site. Right. And then that's what, in 9, 30, 10, you know, and you get three loads out that day, and then you have to turn around and, you know.

[Aaron]

Well, and. Yeah, like, you were. This is stuff I didn't even think about. But you were saying the. You know, you get your material, you're hauling off base, and as soon as you leave and you come back in, you have to go through inspection again. Again and again and again and again.

[Ricky Webb]

Yep, yep. It's. It's like. It's the least efficient type of work you can do. Yeah. But, um. And that's why we own a lot of our own trucks. So we own, like, 10. 10 trucks, you know, so we own a lot of our own stuff. Because what happens if you're paying rental, you're just paying idle time for the guy just to sit there.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

And so a lot of times what'll happen is for, like, if you're in, like, rental. If you have rental trucks lined up and say you order in five trucks and the tunnel's a mess, then they get to the base, and the. The truck inspection's a mess. You're paying four or five hours of no hauling time.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

Just sitting there where we have our trucks, we own them, we can divert them however we want. So a lot of times we know, my first guy gets a truck inspection, it's a mess. We call the other four trucks, say, hey, don't worry about it. Go to this job site. So we'll shift to another job, knock that job out, get that job out another two days ahead of schedule. Then we know the traffic's not bad. We'll switch all the trucks over to this job on the next day and knock the base job out.

[Aaron]

Trucks in general. And this is from a guy that owns no trucks and does no actual work. But I feel like I understand how painful trucks are, but I don't understand why more people don't own and operate their own trucks like that. To me, it's a huge. It's just this, like you're just leaving it to chance when you're using. I understand you have to use brokered trucks for all kinds of stuff, but you're not controlling your destiny.

[Ricky Webb]

I think you should have base level of trucks. Right. So, like, some guys, you know, they're renting 30 trucks a day. These site contractors and stu, they're running 30 trucks a day, and they don't own any of their own trucks. But then what happened when and this happened? I don't know if it was pre Covid or whatnot, but in our area got really busy, and it was just a. Basically a game of who could get the rental trucks first. So what happens is, like, if you get a job and you got to have 20 rental trucks. Well, it's. The area is so busy, there's not that many rental truck companies around there that can supply that many trucks. So what happens is you're kind of like, you ask for 10 trucks and you get three. Sure. Well, you do that for a week in a row, and you're two, you know, two or three days behind schedule. And the GC is wondering, you know, why didn't you get more trucks? And you're like, listen, I called for five, but I only got two.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

So now with owning our own trucks, it's like you said, we control our destiny. And for us, it makes us super efficient, you know, and we'll load attachments and stuff in the trucks in the morning, send them up, and then we have to, you know, we might go to one truck, might go to five jobs in one day. Yeah. He gets a load from here, load from here, load from here. Well, you can't do that with a rental guy. Yeah, he. He doesn't want to do that. And even our low boys and stuff, we have like three lowboys now. We haul our own equipment and everything. So, you know, he goes by and drops this machine off, and then he goes and picks four attachments up, and then he goes and picks up another machine randomly that we didn't know was going to finish up. And it does. And.

[Aaron]

And that's where I think it. It is super beneficial. Like, I feel like people just. They just look at the spreadsheet. They're like, it doesn't spreadsheet. It's like, okay, yeah, I get like, the insurance requirements and all the requirements on trucking now is crazy.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Crazy how expensive it is. Yeah, it's just. It's out of Control.

[Ricky Webb]

It really is.

[Aaron]

And like, the insurance rates and this.

[Ricky Webb]

It's just. It's a lot of liability running up and down the road, too.

[Aaron]

It's a lot of.

[Ricky Webb]

I just showed you my.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

With all my trucks.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

And it. You know, every morning you wake up and you see all the red dots and green dots running around.

[Aaron]

You're like, I just had this conversation with somebody, like, the. The concept that is like, zero entries ever, ever, ever is possible. And it's like, I don't think it is with that many people driving every day.

[Ricky Webb]

Right.

[Aaron]

Like, you don't control the roads. The roads are just wild. And it just is what it is. Like, I don't know, man. But I think there's. There's so many benefits that you can't really quantify, like you were just saying. And then even just, like, culturally, like, it just creates this cohesion between different sites as well. Because your truck drivers are the ones that are seeing multiple sites.

[Ricky Webb]

That's true.

[Aaron]

In. And interacting with different foremen. And they're kind of spread across the whole business, which can work for you or against you. They can sit there just gossiping all day, which sometimes. Truck drivers.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, yeah.

[Aaron]

But. But if you have good people, which I'm assuming you do.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, yeah. My guys are great.

[Aaron]

I feel like it. It furthers the overall mission and company.

[Ricky Webb]

Well, you get a group of guys. Like, we have a great group of drivers right now. And the biggest thing is they'll see, you know, hey, I finished up over here. You know, I can run out. Where do you want me to go next? You. Me to go over here. I can go over to, you know, Bob and get. Knock two loads out and get you done. Oh, we can run late today. If we run two extra loads today, all three of us shift over here and get two extra. Three extra loads a day. We can finish this job a day early.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

And so they're invested. They're invested. So a lot of times they're knowing where the job's at, and they know that that guy's really close to getting finished, so they'll jump over there and knock that out. Or they'll come in on a Saturday and they'll work a half a day. Saturday and get us a day ahead.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Ricky Webb]

And a lot of times we've allowed them that autonomy to be able to make that decision, which has been awesome. So you can direct them a lot. But. But the. The group we have right now, man, they. They want to run. I mean, they love to run, and they. They I mean they put miles on them trucks sometimes. Every time I turn around and look at the mileage on my trucks, I'm like, I just got it.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

You know, but it's making money. And the biggest thing is it's like you said, it's hard to put on a spreadsheet. It's kind of like the quick coupler things and stuff like that. Like everybody tries to spreadsheet things.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

But there's a lot of times you can just feel the inefficiencies. And when you literally can, there's no downtime. That's the biggest thing is you don't want your operator sitting. If he finishes at one o', clock, he can't tear the building down no more. There's nothing else. He's got all his piles separated and everything. The only thing that keeps him from moving ahead is trucking. The only, the, the fastest way to get a job done is getting the stuff off the job. Sure. Because everything has to leave.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

Trucks is everything. So a lot of times the guy gets done at one and you got rental trucks and you can't get a truck. But see, we can, we can shift all of our trucks over so we have complete control.

[Aaron]

I think, I think too with trucks. Like people treat truck drivers like second rate citizens.

[Ricky Webb]

Right.

[Aaron]

Like just like cattle dogs. I mean it's, it's stuff people say about truck is wild and like, I'm sure some of it is, is earned. Yeah, I understand that. I've dealt with truck drivers. But I feel like it also becomes this self fulfilling prophecy when you treat them like animals. They just, they don't give a right at all.

[Ricky Webb]

Right.

[Aaron]

And again, to me it's like your whole job depends upon the truck drivers.

[Ricky Webb]

100.

[Aaron]

So why wouldn't you integrate them within the process like that? To me, it's just, I've never really understood it well.

[Ricky Webb]

I mean, and a lot of guys, they just won't invest in the trucks they'll have, you know, I mean back in the day, man, listen, when we were, when we were growing and coming out of the recession and stuff, we had trucks and we were struggling with the AC and I mean we had some rough equipment, you know, I mean it's. But as soon as we could afford to buy new trucks and buy nice trucks and build them the way we wanted to, so I went through and like designed how I wanted to build the truck. Thicker bottoms. We put angle iron in the truck beds, all disc brakes. We went to automatics. I mean the fatigue that the guys were doing. I mean. Cause the traffic's so bad. So you know, guys that are literally just riding the clutch all day where you're burning clutches out of the trucks. Cause the traffic is terrible where we're at. Sure. Well then we had all the def stuff. Cause your truck's idle so much that the definition start having all this levels go and all the issues with that. So they got all that figured out and now the automatics are huge. And now the guys, I mean, you know, they love our. I mean they take pride in them. We gotta, you know, build a put. You know, we got a wash bay with a hot pressure washer and stuff and a foam cannon. They come in and they'll fill their trucks up and foam can in their trucks and hot pressure wash them off. And I mean they're shining and. Yeah. So I mean it's. It's a. It's a beautiful thing when. When you know all the equipment swinging and then all this. Your own trucks are running in there. And the clients love it too. That's the first thing. It just looks better too. It does.

[Aaron]

When you've got like.

[Ricky Webb]

And we logo it.

[Aaron]

I mean some of these broker trucks, dude, they are hanging on by a thread.

[Ricky Webb]

Well, you get guys that jump out like these and they'll jump out like flip flops on. Flip flops?

[Aaron]

Yeah, big, you know, big old belly with a. With like their, you know, daughter's safety vest on.

[Ricky Webb]

It looks like you can't do that on the jobs we're on anymore. You know. So like. Yeah, I mean, you know, if you. If you don't have the right PPE and stuff and don't even get out of the truck, you know, so. And our guys don't even get out of the truck half the time. You know, they don't have time to get out of the truck. And we're, we're. We're running them, you know. So the. You know, you got to think like if I was going to be a truck driver and work for a company and this is what I love to do. I love running a truck. Like it's my office. Like your office is beautiful. You invest in this for your people.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

And I do the same thing with my trucks, with my excavators, all that.

[Aaron]

Well. And from an advertising standpoint.

[Ricky Webb]

Brand, it's crazy.

[Aaron]

I mean if everybody probably thinks you guys are everywhere.

[Ricky Webb]

I just tell them it's just the same truck that just runs around Hampton Roads all day long. But it's not.

[Aaron]

Yeah, I'm sure you hear that all the time, man.

[Ricky Webb]

It's crazy. People like, you are everywhere, and it's just like. No, you just see us. It's subliminal, you know, and my sister actually does all of our advertising for us. She has a company. Yeah. So she does that.

[Aaron]

So nice.

[Ricky Webb]

I throw a plug in there for me.

[Aaron]

No, it looks good. Like, all your equipment's looking real slick. She.

[Ricky Webb]

Or like, hers, like, it's image advertising. She's like, it's about your image. And that's what it's about, you know, and we grew up. My dad was. He always logoed his stuff up from the, like, day one. And actually with my sister, he got her a plotter when she was in high school and got her, like a plotter and stuff. And she's. She's very like, graphic design. Like, you know, like, she just sees it on a different level. And so it started with just like lettering his booms up on his trucks and his. In his. In his dump trucks. And he's always had it levered. And he was like, you know, if I do good work, why wouldn't I want people to know it's me? So, like, what happens now is people think we're everywhere. I mean, if you have a machine that's tearing a building down and it doesn't have a logo on it, people just assume it's us because they assume that we're the guy that's doing the demo.

[Aaron]

Exactly.

[Ricky Webb]

You know?

[Aaron]

Exactly.

[Ricky Webb]

And it's fun. It's. It's. It's like. I don't know, it's the fun part of business, you know, having a brand and brand recognition, like the claw like that we have, I want it to where I don't have to put east coast demolition everywhere. It's like a Nike swoosh.

[Aaron]

Exactly.

[Ricky Webb]

And so you can do that now. And it's. It looks good. Everything rolls in the GCs and the clients love it. You know, the people love it. Our employees love it, too.

[Aaron]

But again, that's. That's another thing that you just can't put on a spreadsheet that just goes. So, I mean, I went to work for two companies back in the day, Skanska and Kiewit, purely because their shit looked so good. I've told the story 100 times, but I can't in my head picture the Skanska logo on all the pickup trucks on a job I was driving to on my way to another company. So that when Skanska came up, it's like, dude, you guys look sick. I Want to go to work for you guys. Didn't know a single thing about them. Keyword, same thing. They just looked badass. Like they're, they're good and they know it is how I explain them. But like there's something to that. And especially as a young male, it's like dude, I want to be on a winning team. I want to go kick the shit out of something. Let's go. Like I didn't know anything about them though. I couldn't tell you a single keywit fact. I just knew they looked badass and

[Ricky Webb]

they were organized and they look good. Yeah. And you saw me. You like keywit based to road road construction or what? This is what they do. Or we know the infrastructure and that's what they do. It's for us. It's like, you know, like you said, it's a rolling billboard. You know, you spend you know, 200, $300,000 on this truck. You spend half a million dollars on an excavator. It's like I, I could put signs on the chain link fence but I don't even do that. I don't need to because no, my excavator is logoed up and my dump trucks logoed up and it's. I mean you got 10 trucks running in a one hour radius. I mean you're basically seeing a truck every 30 minutes. I'm sure it's non stop.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

And so you know in the back of your mind you just. I want it to be where it's like, man, I gotta tear this thing down. Oh, I only know one guy because that's the only one I've seen and that's what I want it to be. So you know, and like I said, it's fun. I mean me and my sister get together, we'll just. All of our stuff, you know, like that's a big thing. It's like not the same logo all the time. Sometimes we switch it up. You know, we're like, oh, this excavator is different. It's a different color, it's a different layout. So we're like, oh, we'll throw ECD on there. We'll do this. And we're always trying to like it's fun. We're always trying to push the envelope a little bit. Either we'll do a full wrap or a partial wrap.

[Aaron]

But yeah, some of your machines are like way wrapped.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, like we'll do the Volvos. We'll wrap all the yellow on the Volvos because the yellow fades. But when you wrap the yellow, it looks awesome because it's gray and black and it's also like but not put on a spreadsheet. When I go to sell that machine, when I pull that wrap off, that yellow is going to look oem brand new. Sure. So the residual value when I sell that machine, hopefully I'll get a little more for it because the paint looks fresh. I don't necessarily know wrap it for that reason, but it's a, it's a but you know, just like it's just taking care of your asset. You know, throwing seat covers in a machine. I mean it's simple things like that, like that and logoing up, like taking pride in it, in what you don't like. I have, I'm not afraid to say that's me on the job site doing that work. I'm not trying to hide anything but that.

[Aaron]

Yeah, I, I, I've never, it's like an old school mentality of like listen, my work speaks for itself.

[Ricky Webb]

Right.

[Aaron]

But that's one of the most striking things about the European job sites is, is you can from a block away tell whose project it is based on the colors and based on just what stuff looks like.

[Ricky Webb]

I mean they'll buy brand new machines and repaint them.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah, but, but each company has like their own colors. Yeah, it's, it's Switzerland, Germany, a little bit up into like the Netherlands, Sweden. Like every company is known for certain colors. Certain like brand, whatever, whatever it's called. I had a business that did this and I don't, I don't even know the, the terminology. But yeah, like an Eberhard job, you don't need to see Eberhard to know it's an Everhard job. Because they have that fluorescent yellow and that like turquoise.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And then a regular has their colors and then key bag is, is blue and straw bag is, is red and it's just, they do it and I know this. It's like they do like the, the Japanese ones are a whole different level.

[Ricky Webb]

It's crazy.

[Aaron]

The way they paint their machines is crazy.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, great. Like they're just like digital, like digital camouflage and some of them and stuff like that. And they'll play like the characters and stuff.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but they, but they love like characters and.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And so yeah, it's like Nabokai or some was like one of those companies and they have this monster Kobelco. It was like 1300 or something like that. Big, big machine.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And it's just like they let a six year old, you Know, just go nuts on it. And I say that in a very, like, positive way. Like, it looks awesome, but you know about it.

[Ricky Webb]

You see? Yeah. Everybody shares it online and all that stuff. I mean, they're internationally known just because they painted their machine a certain way.

[Aaron]

Yep.

[Ricky Webb]

You know, I love it. People think we're way bigger than we are. I mean, because of just how we do it. You know, they think we're just. They think we're huge. And I'm like, no, we, you know, we're 50 employees. We are. We're right in this little area. We don't go kind of three hours as our little radius and stuff. But sure. You know, we just kind of. People see our machines and they. They know them and recognize them and it's so funny. Yeah.

[Aaron]

Yeah, it's so funny.

[Ricky Webb]

It's a simple. It's not. It's. It's a simple thing, but it's. It's cost. I mean, it's. It's a cost you got to put into it. And I mean.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but I. This is where I struggle. I think this, this works against this industry a lot, is because this industry is very comfortable with a spreadsheet and with numbers and with things that they can see.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

But there's certain decisions in business. And I just, I read Tim Grover's book recently, and he was talking so much about instinct, and I've been thinking so much about it. Like, there are so many decisions in business that are not necessarily. You're not able to pencil them, you're not able to put them on a spreadsheet, but they're the right decisions. Like, you know, that is the right thing to do. And sometimes you can't even explain it.

[Ricky Webb]

You can't.

[Aaron]

And I think, like, when you run your business too much, like, it has to pencil or we don't do it. I understand the discipline. Like, I've spent months. I've spent years, like, really stressed out about money. So I can appreciate that. But then if. If you want to do anything significant or different, there's. There's a lot of decisions you have to make just based on, like. I think this is right.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, you gotta. I mean, so that's kind of like I. I'm like 30,000 foot view how I try to, like, run my business. Right. Yeah. So I try to oversee and feel. I feel the business I'm in there every day. I know the heartbeat of it. I feel it. It's in my blood. But I will kind of be. Honestly, I'll be the opposite Where I don't look at the spreadsheet. So my vice president and my CFO, she's been with us 20 years, and her biggest thing is the numbers don't lie. So she runs the spreadsheet. Sure. So which. You gotta have that. Right. Because there'd be. There's times where I'm like, oh, we're doing great. Oh, we made money on this job. We, you know, this, this, and this. I can't control this. It is. And then you look at the spreadsheet and you're like, oh, okay. You know, or like, how much did I spend on that? Oh, I didn't realize that. Well, okay, maybe I need to taper it back and we'll do a review and we go over it and we're always trying to find that 1% here, 1% there. How can we be more efficient in things? But, you know, the, the spreadsheet thing, for me, a lot of times it's. It's off. The logos and stuff like that are one thing, but then, like, the efficiency of how the field runs, what makes my job easier. Right. Like coming in in the morning and not having to wait for the rental trucks to show up because all my trucks leave the shop. Yeah. It probably costs us more money to run our own trucks, but my operators and my guys don't have to wait. My. We're not trying to argue every single morning. Make a phone calls. Where does the shelf show up?

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Ricky Webb]

You know, the spreadsheet for the quick couplers, you know, between Oilclik and them is like, you run it in a spreadsheet, you're saving this many man hours and all that stuff. But really what it comes down to is your employees happy. He comes in every day. He's not fighting, pushing pins and stuff out like that. Like the spreadsheets. One thing. But when you get the flow of things and you understand how your business just works, you can't. You can't argue with that sometimes.

[Aaron]

You know, And I think this is all like, this is one of the root causes of why the whole industry is where it is right now. They're like, they're still just trying to run it based on a spreadsheet.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Which. Which I get. Like, there. There's value to that within our business. That's Randy and Kara. And thank God for Randy and Kara. But they also drive me fucking nuts sometimes. And I drive them fucking nuts sometimes because I don't work that way. I just want to just ready, shoot, aim, Like, I just want to go over here Go over there. And I've nearly sunk the business multiple times. As a result, right now we have systems in place, so there's a push and pull, but there has to be both. Like, and there has to be a mutual respect between the two.

[Ricky Webb]

Oh, huge.

[Aaron]

And I think it's like, no, we're just going to run everything on a spreadsheet, which again, like, okay, mathematically it's right, but is it right for your people? And I think people is where it starts to really become gray.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And. Well, it's right for our people, but I can't quantify that it's right for our people. I can't put that on a spreadsheet. But it's like, but I know it's right for our people.

[Ricky Webb]

Just talk to them.

[Aaron]

Yeah, just, just, just talk to like,

[Ricky Webb]

you know, make the change and it might cost you. And on the spreadsheet it doesn't look right. But then when you look at that person's demeanor and their, their day to day and how much, you know, better their life is, or they're just, you know, their, their, their work life, when they come to work, they're just happy to, to that you invested in that equipment. Even though on the spreadsheet it looks a little slim. The margins are tight, you know, and so for me, it's it. But there is that push and pull, and you do have to have that respect with that side of the house.

[Aaron]

Well, and, and with people too, the return, it takes a little longer to materialize.

[Ricky Webb]

It does.

[Aaron]

And so there's that period of time where it's like, I hope I'm right. Like, I hope this is the right thing. Because they're saying it's not. I think it is, but I can't, I can't show that it is. And sometimes it takes six months, sometimes it takes 12 months. Sometimes it takes years for things to actually prove out to be.

[Ricky Webb]

Sometimes it doesn't prove out to be right.

[Aaron]

Sometimes it's wrong at the top.

[Ricky Webb]

You kind of have to look at yourself. That's the big thing that I try to do is like, look, it's my fault. Like, I tried it. There's nobody else to blame but me. Yeah, I thought it, I thought that maybe I put all this stuff in place and it would work out. It's not very often that luckily I can say that it's not very often that I put things in place and then I regret that I did it. But you have to have the humility to be able to step back and say that. Was me, you know, that was my fault. It's not because I put this thing in place and my people didn't use it right or didn't do it right or something like that. It's not their fault, you know, But

[Aaron]

I think, but I think that that is. Innovation is trying new and that business talks all day about innovation. Business, very American business. Very rarely does any kind of innovation now. Yeah, they're just, they're not incentivized to anymore. They're. Because most of them are backed by venture or backed by private equity or backed by the markets. Like, they just, they don't want you to do anything different. They just, dude, just stay in line and just make it happen.

[Ricky Webb]

This is how we've been doing it for however long and it works. And I mean, listen, we, we do that too to a certain extent, right? We've been doing this for 40. We've been in business for 45 years. There's some things, we get some people that come in like, why don't you do it like this? It's like, well, we've tried that. Are you sure? It's like, well, we have tried that and it doesn't work. We've been in business 45 years. Like, you understand that. But there's a lot of things that we haven't tried yet or we are trying. Like, for me, it's, you know, we're not backed by anybody. Nobody owns us. We're not partnered with anybody. It's. It's me and my dad and my mom and, you know, my family. And it's, it's our money and we're trying to put our best foot forward all the time. And, you know, I always try to say, like, there is no plan B. Like, there's only plan A. Like, you just have to go at it and you have to be 100% committed with it. And for me, if I'm going to do this every day and the technology and the innovation is there in front of me, why not give it a shot? Yeah. And if I'm making the money and the profit to be able to invest in those innovations or why not go ahead and do that? Right? Like, I should make my. It makes my team and my employees job easier. Right? And then hopefully in return, it makes them happier, more efficient, more productive, which then creates more revenue, which then I can hopefully give back to them. And it's kind of like this. Invest in innovation, invest in your people. It's kind of like this thing that just keeps climbing back and forth is what I've seen. But ideally the whole bar is being raised, you know, for, for demolition specifically. It's. The innovation is there in demolition. It's expensive. And you have to make that decision that I'm going to invest in that, you know, not only for me and my, you know, quality of life, but my people's quality of life, you know, and it's.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but that, I mean, even I was talking with like, you know, I was talking to Shay out in Colorado. He's invested in a lot of this stuff. He's been a huge advocate for oil. Quick.

[Ricky Webb]

We talk all the time, work tools

[Aaron]

and yeah, he's, he's, he's all in on it and yet almost no one else is doing it, which just is a whole other thing. But he was like the biggest thing. When you ask him what's been the benefit of all this, he's like, my guys enjoy it a lot more. It's like, okay, that makes a lot more sense. Like, like, I, But I think there's also this like old time logic that's. Well, because I did it the miserable way. Everybody has to do it the miserable way.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And that, that to me is crazy.

[Ricky Webb]

I'm the. What's great is I'm like the middle. So I'm 38. Right. So I grew up old school. I grew up like those guys. Right. My dad was, you know, old school. Like, it's just tough. This is a tough business. Demolition. Suck it up, Suck it up. You know, like, you don't get the pat on the backs, you don't get the atta boys. Like, I didn't, I wasn't raised. You know, every time I did a good job, I got told I got a good job. Yeah, right. Yeah. I got raised by like not being told that I, I. Something up was me knowing that I did a good job. And so, you know, then there's the, the younger generation that loves the innovation, man, and they love the equipment and they love the logos and they love that stuff. But they, they have to learn that it is a tough business and stuff that you need to be. This is a tough business. And so for me, like, getting them to understand that, you know, you can mesh those two things together is, is the hardest part. That's what we're struggling. Well, I wouldn't say struggling with. We're struggling. It's a struggle. We're trying to do that right now,

[Aaron]

you know, but that, that I think is where the industry needs to be. Yeah, I don't, I don't think one Side is right. I think both sides have really good things. Like, there are. There. There's just. There's physics involved that is like, you just have to do the work. And it is a meritocracy. You either remove the building or you don't like. And there's.

[Ricky Webb]

And sometimes it sucks.

[Aaron]

Sometimes it sucks. And it's outside. So you have the elements involved, which is something you can't control. And there's all these things that you can't control about it. But then there's also like, well, there's probably a better way to do this that could be a little bit more efficient, effective, and we can. This, that, this, that it all adds up at the end of the day. And I'm a believer in combining both of those things because I've seen it. Like, I don't speak on theory. That's the cool thing about travel. It's like, well, I've seen it. You're saying it won't work. I've seen it work, like, 20 times over. So I know that that's not true. Like, I've. Because I've seen it work.

[Ricky Webb]

When we were looking. When we were looking into it, and then I would talk to the guys over in the European countries, and they would. I would just pick their brain about it and stuff like that. They're like, the fact that you guys don't do that or how you do it, I don't understand it. It's mine.

[Aaron]

They don't understand.

[Ricky Webb]

They don't understand.

[Aaron]

They don't say it's stupid. They're just like, how do you do it?

[Ricky Webb]

Now that I do it, I don't understand why people don't do it. Now I can understand if you're. If you're doing. If you're not switching attachments all the time, right. Or like, you know, speaking on the quick couplers, like, if you're not switching attachments all the time, and you can do your job with one or two tools or a bucket.

[Aaron]

If you're. If you're Jeff's Demolition llc, right? And you're just doing houses and wrecking homes.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, wrecking homes and stuff. I understand. You don't have to do that. But as you grow into that next level, I mean, you know, like you said, you're. Sometimes you just got to get the building out of the way. But then there's like, you might have to do four weeks of just processing concrete. So you're taking giant chunks of concrete and turning them into small chunks of concrete. It is monotonous. It Is boring. It is, you know, to drive you nuts, you know, so. But the only way I can make people stay, stay and continue to do that work is by innovating in the tools, right? So you give them a machine that has a nice cab, ac, Bluetooth, speakers, all that stuff. But you also give them to where they can swap tools without getting out. Like a tool breaks. And they're not all frustrated and have to get out there in 100 degree weather and you know, do the hoses and clean everything off, drop the pins. Hydraulic oil. Yeah. Then you're getting back in the machine. You can, you got hydraulic oil all over your joysticks. It's just a mess, you know, and you're miserable. I've done it. I get out there and you're just like, man, this sucks. Like, I don't want to do this, you know, I don't get paid enough to do this, you know. But if you give them the. Where if tool breaks, they can just unclip it, stay in their AC cab, clip onto another tool, or call or superintendent and say, hey man, this tool broke. Can you send me another one? Yeah, we'll have you one in an hour. And they take it out there. He just clips onto it. The only thing he has to do is spray some brake clean and grease it. You know, I mean, shoot, we could put the, we're getting auto lubes on the machines now and they don't even have to. You don't have to grease the machines. You have to grease the attachment. So now you've made it to where it's like, okay, I've given the best quality of, of work environment that I can now. Now the hard part comes. Now the old school part comes, which is just get it done. Yeah, this is a job.

[Aaron]

There's still a pile of concrete.

[Ricky Webb]

There's still a pile of concrete there. I've made it as nice and, and, and easy as I can for you, but you still got to sit here for four weeks for eight hours a day and munch and munch. And so that is the old school way, because you can't, you know, I don't want to do this. It's like, well, too bad, you know, I got it has to get done.

[Aaron]

But that, that I, I don't think that should be removed because I feel like that is what creates the pride in the people that do this work to begin with. Because it is tough. Like, I feel like this is where a lot of the messaging with attracting the next generation has gone completely off the rails. There. Everybody's trying to make it for everybody.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

It's not. That's a complete flat out lie. I've been, I've. I spend enough time in airports, I look at society. There's a lot of people that this is just not for and they would not do well out there. But those that, that it is for, you do have to still be a little crazy. You have to have something wrong with you. I feel like to be in this world.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, you gotta be a little. You gotta be a little mad.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're. You're not.

[Ricky Webb]

You operate on a different brain, like brainwave, like. Yeah, yeah. And you gotta love it, man.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

You gotta love equipment. You got to be a little bit just kind of cuckoo about it. Like, you gotta love just being out there every day grinding, just grinding. Just grinding, man. Yeah. I love the grind.

[Aaron]

Like the, the monotony of it. You almost like enjoy it.

[Ricky Webb]

You do.

[Aaron]

Yeah, dude, I'm just, I'm just out here making it happen.

[Ricky Webb]

But you know, like, for me, what happens is that guy does that and then he does it and he does it and he does it and then he gets his one shot to go tear a building down. You know, you stick him out there and he's been munching concrete for like six months to a year, you know, and then you finally, you. One guy, one guy goes on vacation and you're like, hey, listen, you know, Bob went on vacation. I need you to come over here and tear this building down. And he gets a taste of that and. But he's gotten so good with the machine doing the. It's kind of how we train. Like, that's our training in a sense. Right. Like letting guys just get machine a bunch of concrete and then they. Yeah. And then they'll get their one opportunity to tear machine. But they, they've learned through the, the concrete process and things how to swap the tools, how to maintain the equipment, how to troubleshoot, how to, you know, understand that a schedule and, you know, you got the grind. You got to do that. So when they finally get in to tear that building down to stuff like that, they've got all the, the you know, entry level stuff figured out. Sure. There's like something that clicks in their brain and they just love demo and they love being able to reach up there. And. And now they're like, I'll never have to do concrete again. And it's like, no, you still got.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like 80% of the job still. I mean, that's that's the thing with demo is it's mostly processing. It is, majority is yeah, just sorting

[Ricky Webb]

material but you know, like having a bunch of different attachments and being able to have the right tool. When you tear something down, it makes it fun. It's like a video game out there, you know, like if you got to do everything and a lot of times for us it, it saves on our tools and stuff. You're using the wrong tool to tear a building down, it'll cost you. I mean These tools are 100 grand. I mean the excavators, 4 or 500 grand. And then you put a hundred thousand dollar tool on the end of it. So you know, you, you can wipe a tool out by doing, using it the wrong way. Right. Taking a shear and doing concrete structures or doing a, you know, trying to take a bucket and thumb and, and, and pull I beams and stuff down from a building. Like being able to like grab onto the shear and cut the I beams and grab onto a concrete crusher and crush the concrete and stuff like that, it makes it fun because you always have the right tool. So.

[Aaron]

Well, and it, it's deceiving. Like to the untrained eye, it's just somebody smashing a building. But if, if you watch a skilled operator with work tools, it's, it's, it's like watching a chef. It's like watching a skilled mechanic. Like it's no different. The tool is much bigger. Yep. But the skill involved is unbelievable. And then, and then I love having them explain how they're taking the building down and how they're sequencing it and. Well, I can't do this here because this is load bearing over here. And if I do this, it's going to get a bunch of insulation and shit mixed in with my concrete, which then makes sorting a whole lot longer. So I'm actually going to do that and it's going to look a little slower and inefficient, but it's actually making me faster down the road. And it's like this is amazing.

[Ricky Webb]

That right there, like that thought process is what's hard to train people on. You can tell people all day long, this is how you got to take it apart because you don't want to mix these materials. But physically doing it well, if you give them just one tool to do it with, it's really hard. You can't get mad at them if they can't sort them.

[Aaron]

Everything's a nail.

[Ricky Webb]

Right.

[Aaron]

All you have is a hammer. Yeah, yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

So you give them all These tools and say, use these things to take it down so you don't have to sort as much later, sort while you take it down. And then. But a lot of times that's where our older guys, you know, we got, we got one guy that's been with us 25 years, man. He's like a, he's like a wizard on the machine. And we have a group of guys that have been with us like 13, 14 years. And then we have a group of guys that have been with us around five or six years. And even 13, 14 year guys will watch the 25 year guy and be like, I learned, I still learned something. I learned how he did this. And then our next guys down, we'll watch our 13 year guys and, and say, hey, you know, I watched how he took the building apart and I realized that if he did it like this, I don't have to clean all that up at the end of the day like that. And the only way you can get that training is by putting him a large project. And, and you just say, listen man, every time you're not loading a truck or something, you watch that guy, watch how he does it. And at the end of the day, walk around the job and see how organized it is and how your different piles are here.

[Aaron]

And well that, that is how I can, I can tell the skill of a demo operator and, and, and tell the quality of a company by just looking at the piles and the site, how it's organized. Yeah, that's, that's like the easiest and that, that's the most striking thing about the European demolition is the European demolition, that's almost kind of boring to watch. Like, it's not very exciting.

[Ricky Webb]

It's, they're very short every.

[Aaron]

But they're not, they're not just going to town there. Like, I'm thinking of one job in particular. It's like a, it's a 336 with a VA boom. And he's got all his work tools. So he's got a processor, he's got a bucket, he's got a hammer, he's got a rotating grab and it's every 60 seconds, 90 seconds, 120 seconds, you know, pulling the metal out, putting the metal in the, in the bin, pulling the, the wood out, putting it over in the, in the pile concrete, you know, kind of building the pile underneath him with the concrete.

[Ricky Webb]

So he's tracking the masonry, that's processing it as it goes, which is, which is also a benefit. Right? So when he gets done, he doesn't have to process as much.

[Aaron]

Exactly. So they just kind of work their way through the. Like a lot of people will just. Let's just flatten the building and then we'll process. But they're. They just. They kind of work their way methodically through the building, processing as they go. And.

[Ricky Webb]

But see, we can't get away with that. Like, some. Sometimes our schedules just don't dictate it.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Ricky Webb]

Like, sometimes, you know, the clients, you know, you're four weeks behind. He's like, how long are you gonna take to tear this building down? I think about eight weeks. Well, you got four weeks. Yeah. And it's like, okay, well, we gotta drop it. And.

[Aaron]

Or to give it the illusion that you're moving faster, just drop the building.

[Ricky Webb]

Just drop it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

Oh, wow. You got it down in two days. It's like, yeah, but I'm need three weeks to get it cleaned up now, you know, but I think that, like. And in Europe and stuff, you know, the recycling is a lot different. Right.

[Aaron]

They have a way.

[Ricky Webb]

They have a, you know, a place to take everything. We're here.

[Aaron]

It's.

[Ricky Webb]

You're getting the concrete, you're getting the metal, you're getting the steels out. But. But all your wood, aluminum. I mean, all your wood and insulation and things like that, it all just gets landfilled a lot of times.

[Aaron]

No, that rock. But that's why next time you go to Switzerland, you have to tour Eberhard, because they have a central sorting facility. So they don't. They. They sort their metal and then they sort their. Their masonry concrete on site, their heavy stuff. But then everything else just goes in a truck to their sorting facility. And then they feed it into the plant. And from there they. It's like this very elaborate setup with robots and screens and all sort magnets to then sort like 30 different products.

[Ricky Webb]

But they don't have the landfill space and things like that that America does.

[Aaron]

They can't. They can't actually landfill anything.

[Ricky Webb]

So.

[Aaron]

So they. They incinerate all their trash. And the European mind loves to be like, it's so much better for the environment. It's like, dude, you're. You're just burning.

[Ricky Webb]

It's. It's all like.

[Aaron]

I could argue it's way worse. And there's a lot of studies saying it is way worse. But, okay, you're so much better. You're Europe.

[Ricky Webb]

Good for you.

[Aaron]

But, yeah, nothing goes to landfill.

[Ricky Webb]

They.

[Aaron]

They what? They can't recycle. They incinerate, but they Recycle, it's like 95%, maybe more. I mean, they are really getting in there. And that's how you kind of.

[Ricky Webb]

That's our profit. And I mean, that's how we make our profit. The better you can sort and pick is how you so on that spreadsheet, when you're trying to make the numbers all work and stuff like that, it's like, well, you. You invest in the couplers and you invest in all these attachments and stuff like that. Because my recycling rate, growth goes up, you know, so as much concrete and brick and block and aggregate I can get out, and steel I can get out. You know, you tear building down, you might have, you know, you know, two or three loads left over. That's debris, and that's got to go to the landfill. Like, you know, okay, well, I just paid for all these fancy tools I have because I was able to recycle it. It. Well.

[Aaron]

And even, like concrete and steel, if you don't turn it in in the right way, they're just like, yeah, but

[Ricky Webb]

like, luckily in our area. Yeah. I mean, in our area, like, a lot of times in some places, people ask us how we get away with maybe not processing our concrete and getting all the rebar out. Right. And in Europe, you know, they're like, oh, my gosh, you don't get all the rebar out of there. There's a lot of money in that. That rebar that's still in the concrete. But a lot of times our schedule dictates that we can. And there's places where we're at that we can take the concrete with rebar in it and dispose of it. So.

[Aaron]

And then process it.

[Ricky Webb]

They process it and all that stuff. Right. So. But in places like California and things like that, there. There's no yards that will take the concrete with rebar. So everything has to be pulled out on the site. So the. It's all regionally different in the US as well, you know, Very much. Yeah. And you. And it all depends on if you got a yard locally that'll. That'll work with you. And they. They'll take the material and stuff like that.

[Aaron]

And it really depends on landfill rates.

[Ricky Webb]

It all depends on landfill rates. I mean, that's a big thing. A lot of people ask us why we do, why we tear the buildings down sometime with everything still in them. And it's like, well, our landfill rates are low enough that it doesn't make Sense to put 30 guys in to gut it, because that's more expensive than Just. But see, I don't do that because I have all these attachments and tools. So as I tear the building down, I can sort a lot of that material. I don't have to gut it prior to.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Ricky Webb]

And we, you know, if we have time, we will gut it. But it's hard to find labor. It's hard. And that's tough work too, because that's all done by hand. You know, you. There's equipment coming out now that makes interior gutting easier to get. The Brocks and you got all the electric dingoes and the buggies and stuff. I mean, that's fun and all, but it's still manual labor.

[Aaron]

Well, and. And you know, like middle of summer, you're not running like ac.

[Ricky Webb]

No. You know, and you're not. And you've already cut all the power.

[Aaron]

All the power is gone. Right.

[Ricky Webb]

So elevators dead. You have to hoof it up, you know, 10 stories.

[Aaron]

So. And you're in your respirator all day.

[Ricky Webb]

Oh, man.

[Aaron]

Maybe you're in a Tyvek suit all day if there's still some garbage in there. Like, that's a.

[Ricky Webb]

And you. So you can't, like, to a certain extent, you know, you could be old school and say, well, it is what it is. It's tough. Just do it. But it. The. The people doing the work now aren't built like they were back in the day. There are options like, oh, I don't

[Aaron]

have to do this Amazon warehouse.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Right down the street that pays a dollar less.

[Ricky Webb]

Right.

[Aaron]

They've got aircraft condition.

[Ricky Webb]

We got a bunch of golf courses around, man. When I was younger, when I was a kid and working at the shop, you know, in high school and stuff, you know, I would just weed, eat and cut grass and sweep floors and wash machines and my dad would make me take a 40 foot Conex box of like, salvaged items from job sites, pull it out in 100 degree weather, snakes and everything in there. He'd say, throw it away. Keep it. Throw away and put it all back in the Conex box. And we would do that all summer long. And I'd have buddies from high school that would come work for me and they'd last like one summer. And they're like, man, I'm gonna go work at the Grand Golf course, you know, moving golf carts around, you know, and then when I get off at 1 o', clock, I get to go play golf for free. And I'm like, oh, that's cool. I don't, you know, yeah, I'm gonna continue to do conex boxes because I, you know, I have no other choice. But yeah, you know, it's. So there are options to go do that. You have to make it fun and interesting and you got to make it easy, you know. And if I think that if the employees don't see that you're reinvesting back in the equipment in them, that I think there is some resentment there that builds, you know, And I think the employee kind of says, like, these guys are making money. You know, he's doing well, but they're making me do it the hard way.

[Aaron]

Well, and I think people think the. And some do. Most don't though. They think the owners of these companies are making just a ridiculous sum of money. Like they're flying around on gulf streams. They've got mcmansions everywhere. Like that's not really this industry. Like go blame the lawyers and the pharmaceutical companies and the finance people and the real estate. Like those are the ones doing all that. Yeah, that's the racket. Like contractors, a lot of these guys are. They're pretty wealthy.

[Ricky Webb]

Right.

[Aaron]

But they've earned the money most of the time. And it's not like they're not that wealthy.

[Ricky Webb]

No. And a lot of it's like an assets or.

[Aaron]

Exactly, exactly. Most of it's an assets.

[Ricky Webb]

It's really debt heavy.

[Aaron]

I mean, you can't.

[Ricky Webb]

Like I said, you got to have a machine and the machine's a half million dollars. Well, you know, it might create you some revenue, but there's debt there, you know, and starting out, a lot of guys have to personally guarantee things and stuff like that.

[Aaron]

A small machine is half a million bucks. Yeah, yeah. Right.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah. And I mean that's just like a baseline, you know, like you, you know, you go buy a baseline dirt digging excavator. Well, you know, that's fine. I wish I could go do that. And I haven't built my business to be that way, but you know, you put a bucket and thumb on it and great. But we buy. Now we're in the zone where we buy demolition specific with straight booms, with demo guarding and all that. And we buy the couplers now and auxiliary. So you're adding extra 100, $150,000 to a baseline machine. Yeah, you know, but you're doing it in the fact that it's like, it's safe. Like, like a lot of times, you know, those straight boom machines we're doing now being able to reach up there on a four story building and control it rather than tripping it on the, you know, being able to reach three floors and tripping the top floor down. You know, it's only a matter of time before someone's going to make a mistake and something's going to hit that cab or something's going to drop on somebody or you're going to do something where someone's going to get hurt. And we've had a great track record and not that. Not happening. And so for me, it's like I'll spend that extra money to make sure that my guys have a safe place to work, you know.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Ricky Webb]

So. And that's, it's just different way to approach it. You know, it's different. You can reinvest that money back in or you can put it all in

[Aaron]

your pocket, but I don't even think you need to reinvest that much to, for the.

[Ricky Webb]

You don't know you're buying it anyways. I mean, you got to have it to do your job. I mean, but you know, the, it takes a lot to reinvest back into the company to be able to get these people to, to understand that you care. And you're not just taking that money off and putting in your pocket and going on, you know, trips and going on your boat and doing all these things, you know, like, you want people to see that, hey, you know, like the money's your, you're making the money.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

Like you're doing the work, you're making the money. I'm just kind of like at the top pulling the levers a little bit,

[Aaron]

but I feel like that's better. And then in theory you make more money doing that. That's my argument. It is.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Like when I, whenever I argue, then

[Ricky Webb]

the spreadsheet starts looking good after about two years.

[Aaron]

Exactly. But it takes some years. But, but not even that. It's not like a ten year plan. It's like two years. But, but I tell everybody, guys, I'm not, I'm not trying to make you less money. This actually makes you more money. It makes your people more money. And like, and then you don't have to go running around like hiding the fact that you have a plane. You know, when, when, when everybody knows that you have a plane. Everybody, everybody knows it. It's like whatever. These guys have stuff. It's like, dude, everybody knows. Yeah, everybody. Like the first guy I worked for, he had some nice cars.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, everybody knew.

[Aaron]

I never saw the cars.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

I never even heard about the cars. But everybody knew that they, that they were.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And then because you're not upfront about it. Then, like, people make up all this crazy shit. Now you have, like. Yeah, now you have a bat cave, and now. Now you don't just have one Ferrari, you actually have 11.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And it's. It's just like this weird narrative forms when in, like, if you just pour into the company, invest in everybody.

[Ricky Webb]

Right.

[Aaron]

Make them more money, and then everybody also is like, yeah, then you. Making money's fine, too. And having nice stuff is fine, too. You're the one taking care of all of this that we don't see. I feel like people are pretty honest or people are pretty fair, like, about that.

[Ricky Webb]

I think so.

[Aaron]

But it's like, when you're not really investing, as you should in the company, then you have this nice shit over there, but then you hide it.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And you don't. That's when it starts to become really weird. And I've seen that a hundred, hundreds of times over.

[Ricky Webb]

You know, I want to do well for myself. I don't want to be this massive company. I don't want to have a bat cave and five Ferraris and stuff like that. You know what I'm saying? But for me, it's like, I want to just be healthy. I want to live a good lifestyle, and I want my employees. And there's nothing, dude, there's nothing more awesome than seeing somebody that's been in a few years at my company. And the next thing you know, they buy a new vehicle for themselves, you know, and they showed up driving a beater, you know, and you just gave them the chance, and they put in the time, they put in the work and stuff like that. And then next thing you know, they pull up in a new car, and you see them out in the parking lot. Hey, man. Dang, that's nice. Where'd you get that? Yeah, I bought it. You know, bought not too long ago. Blah, blah. Yeah, you've been putting it overtime and knock it out. Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Fantastic. Great.

[Aaron]

Like, but that, I feel like that's like. To me, that's like the whole point of business.

[Ricky Webb]

It's like, well, there's nothing more gratifying. That's what I get so much gratification out of that.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

Versus, you know, watching the people struggle, you know, I mean, you want. Now there's. You got to pay your dues and you got to put the work in and stuff like that. But it eventually comes when you do that. But there's a gratification. There's huge.

[Aaron]

I mean, though, it's like a lot of it's like, what do I get? And it's like, people ask me, like, what do I want? It's like, I. Dude, I don't know. Like, do I want a shitload of money one day? Boy, do I. That'd be great. But I'm not, like, I'm not worried about that. I'm not a product of doing a hard work. If it happens, it happens. Yeah, that's. That's fantastic. I don't. I don't spend time on that. Like, it's made perfect sense to me. When I think it. I don't think it was Jobs. I think it was Wozniak. People asked Wozniak, what are you most proud of? And he's like, well, there's this drive into the Apple campus, and it's all these beautiful homes, and it's all the people that have worked for Apple along the way.

[Ricky Webb]

Right?

[Aaron]

And that's what I enjoy most. It's like, all of this that I've been able to help create for all these people. And it's like, yeah, that's. That's the whole. I even had this conversation with somebody the other day. It's like, a lot of people at the company make more than I do. A lot of them, especially historically, if you look at the averages, like, most everybody. And that's fine. Like, I don't say that as, like, oh, I'm like, Mr. Good Guy. I don't care about money. Like, dude, money, sick. I grew up around money. It's coolest thing ever. But I've also learned delayed gratification. The more you delay it, the better it gets long term. And I'm all for that. But somebody was like, doesn't it bother you that these other people are making more and, like, living in a much better way than you? It's like, no, it doesn't at all. I think it's the coolest damn thing in the world, like, to see people living as they do and. And they're in different parts points of their life, too. Like, they have families, they have kids. Like, I want them to have more for their families and their. Me right now, if I had money, I'd be just like, probably buying more guns or something. Like, just. Just don't. Just stuff.

[Ricky Webb]

I don't really know if you travel more.

[Aaron]

Right.

[Ricky Webb]

You could travel more, but then you'd never be here, right?

[Aaron]

Yeah, but I'm scratching the travel age, right?

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, done that. Yeah. But that's what most people.

[Aaron]

Yeah, it like, to me, that's. It's the coolest damn thing to see people like, enjoying their lives partially with what you've helped to create. And a lot of people don't talk about money because we're conditioned not to. Because it's like, no, just trust the finance people this and that so they can keep taking advantage of us and keep affording their three homes.

[Ricky Webb]

Go figure, right?

[Aaron]

But money is how it works. Like, you don't pay your mortgage with like an iou, like, hey, bank, like, yeah, just. Tough month, you know, I'll get you guys. I'll get you guys next month. Yeah, like, they don't give a fuck, dude.

[Ricky Webb]

It doesn't work like that.

[Aaron]

No way. No, they're coming after you if you don't have those, if you don't have money or you go get gas. It's like, hey, could I like, can I pay you in like, I don't know, this watch? It's like they don't fucking care. No, just put the money in the machine or else. And to be, to be able to create something that facilitates that for people, I think is. Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

And then watch them run it and facilitate themselves at some point, right? Yes. And like I've been talking to you last night and stuff like that. I've seen you've done a great job to be able to like, you know, like I said, 30,000 foot view, but let the people below you run that mastering. That is huge, you know, and that's. I hope to get there one day with my, my staff. And we have staff that's been there a long time and they handle their own things. And the more I can retain people within my company, the easier it gets. Right. And so, you know, getting people to stay three years, five years retention is huge for me. So we're constant, like every year we're trying to, you know, we've been around for 45 years, but, you know, it's been up and down. Right. And so, you know, offering all the benefits we can to our employees and stuff, rather than just pay all the time. You know, we're trying to like, put packages together because like you said, there's people in different seasons of life. Yes, right. Some people have kids, so it's more important that their daycare stuff is coming.

[Aaron]

Yeah, Their health insurance.

[Ricky Webb]

Their health insurance. Like a guy comes in, you know, everybody wants this level, but it's like, okay, well, how can I put a package together and offer as much as I can? Like, I mean, even in like retirement and stuff like that, it seems like everybody knows about it, but Getting, like, the young guys to invest in the retirement at 20 years old, you know, and then we match it and stuff like that and getting them motivated. And it's like, you have to be like, in a financial advisor to these people, something kind of get them motivated. So that way when they get to the later years in life, they're like, oh, my gosh, like, I am, I am putting some money away. I am able to do this, you know, and like, so we're always trying to, like, create a, an environment for our employees that we're offering something, and it's, it's a, it's a work in progress, you know, I mean, for us, it's, you know, it's not where I want it to be, but we're getting there, and I think we've made strides. And the biggest thing is just, you know, watching your employees, you know, handle their own business to where you can, you know, pay them well and they're handling everything on their own is like, it's a great feeling to watch them guys do that.

[Aaron]

It's the coolest thing.

[Ricky Webb]

It's the coolest thing. It really is when they, and when it's finally clicks in, some of them, you know, and they just turn into different people, you know, but it's, it's training the people and leadership and hiring and all that stuff. It is a, it's a process, man. We spend a lot of time on it.

[Aaron]

There's, and there's, there's core principles, but, like, like we talked about at dinner as well, I, I don't feel like I have the right to tell people how to do business. And, and I, I, I've definitely waded in those waters a bunch. But, and, and, and, you know, in previous years, but now it's like, I don't really know what I'm doing. And the way that's working for us is not necessarily what's going to work for somebody else. There's, there's a thousand different ways to do it. I think there's like, core principles that's like, care for people. Like, that's a good, solid, human core principle. Yeah, yeah, that's a good, sound business principle. But I also don't want to be the guy like you see it all the time on LinkedIn, some fucking guy. Congratulations. You sold your company for 100 million bucks. So you had this big exit. Great. Congratulations. That's awesome. Good for you. But to think that, you know, how business is done now. No, no, no, no, no. That's not how it works. Like, okay. If there are some things within that realm that you did really well, like that, that I could apply, I might listen to those things. But to then just say, I'm Mr. Businessman and I know best.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, you make a hundred million and now you're doing coaching and now you're telling everybody how to do it.

[Aaron]

It's just like, no, no, no, no,

[Ricky Webb]

it doesn't work like that.

[Aaron]

And maybe, maybe I should be more open minded, but like, I just can't take advice from somebody that hasn't actually built a company. I can't do it. And I, maybe, maybe they are the smartest person ever.

[Ricky Webb]

Trying to figure it out every day, man.

[Aaron]

Dude.

[Ricky Webb]

And I've, I've never had another job. Like, this is the only job I've ever had. So, like, this is the only, this is the only thing I know. Yeah, I've never had to have another job. I was like, when I went to, when high school, that's where I went. When I went to college, I'd come back in the summers and work. And this is all I knew. So I only know one way of doing things. And it's like, you look at that, you're trying to find all these resources. You're looking at LinkedIn, you're reading books and you're doing all of it and stuff. And you know, me and my, you know, upper management, we were constantly just trying to figure out ways, but it's ways that suit us. In our business, there is no textbook.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

And you, and you look at other places and you're like, oh, that sounds like a good idea that works, but it wouldn't work for us. And you know, and someone's like, why wouldn't it work for you? It's like, because our business is dealt this way and this is how our people are and all that stuff. I'd rather cater something to that is more towards my business than using some textbook or something that I'll, you know, listen to on some, you know, program I paid $5,000 for or something like

[Aaron]

that, you know, But I think that's like, everybody's looking for the formula. Yeah, but the whole point is like, no, you have to figure out the formula and you have to figure out your formula.

[Ricky Webb]

I agree.

[Aaron]

But then there's also like along the way. You read this book, that's a great principle. I'm going to take that.

[Ricky Webb]

I'll take two things from that.

[Aaron]

This podcast that was, I liked that. I'm going to take it and put it over here. But you're making Your own recipe. I think that's where, that's where it's really special.

[Ricky Webb]

I agree.

[Aaron]

When you're making your own recipe, people, so many people, it's not even business. It's like, as individuals, I feel like people are a little too. Well, I'm just going to go be like this. It's like, no, no, no, no. You don't need to be like anybody else. You just need to be you.

[Ricky Webb]

Well, when you.

[Aaron]

And that's really hard.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, it is.

[Aaron]

It's really social media.

[Ricky Webb]

All you see is you're supposed to do this. You're supposed to have this lifestyle.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

White picket fence.

[Aaron]

Yeah, like that.

[Ricky Webb]

Like, yeah. People that march their own drum and create their own path. I mean, they're, they're successful people. You can't lose. I mean, like, you know, it's. For me, it's, it's. I get a lot from sitting down with other business owners. And for me, it's not even business owners. I mean, I mean, I learn a lot. I'll go to like, to the job sites. I'll talk to the superintendent, I'll talk to the laborers on the other stuff. Sure. And they, hey, man, how's it going? Hey. Oh, you're the owner. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm the owner. And. And then next thing you know, you start hearing them talk about his business. How do y' all do it here? What do y' all do here? And then they have complaints and stuff like that. You might get a suggestion from a superintendent that works for another company that you're working alongside. And you're like, you know, I've never thought about that. That is a good idea. Is that, you know, and he's like, oh, we love that. We love that. It's like, I want to incorporate that in you. You pick up things like that just from the ground. Talking to somebody who's boots on the ground rather than some, you know, high level executive person and stuff like that.

[Aaron]

But that's what I love about this world is it keeps you grounded like that. I feel like there's a lot of people in business. I've dealt with a lot of them now, especially in big corporations. It's like, have you talked to like, anybody that makes $70,000 a year in the past year?

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah,

[Aaron]

I know, I know you've done. I know you've kicked some ass and beautiful house and golf club this and that. But, like, have you, have you spent time in like, the world?

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And like, that's the rural.

[Ricky Webb]

That's That's. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Aaron]

It's just in the way, the way they even talk. It's like, wait a minute, like you're not really around real people, are you? You're in this make believe world. But then because they're in this higher world. Well, I, I worked hard to get here. I'm smart, which got me here.

[Ricky Webb]

Right?

[Aaron]

So I know more than other people. And those are. I think I know how the world works. And I, I need to help these other people. They don't know how the world works. I do. So let me help them. Yeah, let me help them.

[Ricky Webb]

So you got all the answers now, right? Yeah, yeah.

[Aaron]

Look at our entire government.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah. No, it's, it's that, you know, you wake up every morning and you see the news and you look at social media and there's this like, like you said, there's this like fake curtain that's been put over everything. And. But you go and walk into work and you walk on the job site and you see the guys that are getting there at 6am and putting the work and waking up early every single morning. And it's tough and it's hot and it's dirty and they're tired, you know, and their kid's sick and they're trying to get dropped that kid off and their mom's sick and they're trying to work, work that out and stuff and their car broke down or this. And you're constantly. The struggles, the everyday struggles and stuff like that, man. Like that's the, that's the day to day, that's the real grind. And if you can take and try to, you can't, you know, can't put yourself in those people's shoes because everything's different. But you know, those are the people that, that are really making things happen behind the scenes. Right? But it's like not the people at the top who are.

[Aaron]

No, but that, that's like the antidote to, I think a lot of the hubris in the world nowadays. And it's, it's so weird because I grew up in that crazy fake world and I from time to time, like will, will, will put my toes back into it for some weird reason. Like even the other day I was sitting at a coffee shop in Chicago. I like nice coffee. Sue me. I know this is an industry that's built on gas stations. Shit. Coffee, black. If you have anything else, you're not a man. It's like, yeah, okay. I'm not like, I don't even have any chestnuts, so. No Lattes. It is for me, and I'm gonna love lattes. But I'm sitting in this coffee shop in like, this. In like, the financial area of Chicago, and I'm just kind of looking around. I'm like, damn. Like, this is every day for people. Like, this is nice. This is so comfy and cozy, but this isn't the world. And. But I think you. It's just so tempting to, like, go curl up in that world. Like, oh, this is so nice. And it's so comfortable and so free of any kind of real adversity. This. Yeah, anything.

[Ricky Webb]

Anything hard.

[Aaron]

There's no. Yeah, there's nothing real about it. It's just like this padded room. But then. And then the funniest thing is, like, they feel bad for the people doing the work in a way. Like, man, that's just those poor guys out there. One, well, one. They either look at them with disdain. Like, these guys, they're.

[Ricky Webb]

But the reason that you have.

[Aaron]

What, you're messing up my commute.

[Ricky Webb]

The. These blue collar guys built these buildings. Well, this coffee shop. And you know.

[Aaron]

Yeah, well, it's. But it's like, it's either disdain for them or like, like they feel bad. Oh, yeah. Like, oh, man, I just. If only they could see this world and enjoy this world. But it's like, dude, I go into that world and I feel bad for those people.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah. I'm like, it's almost like they're.

[Aaron]

And maybe that's a very privileged perspective and place to be. And I. I. It is. I'm very, very privileged for the perspective I have.

[Ricky Webb]

I grew up, you know, I grew up and didn't have to want for a lot of things and stuff because my dad ran the business and things like that.

[Aaron]

Yeah. But. But I never sit in that coffee shop and I'm like, wow, I wish I was these people. Like, when I, Whenever I'm like, I don't. I don't spend time wishing I'm somebody else, but when I'm watching, like a talented mechanic, I wish I at least had that skill set. If that made sense like that to me, it prevents me from going too far into this world of total horseshit. That was a really, really roundabout way of getting that point. But I feel like it's just like the spending time in this world, it keeps me grounded and then. Which prevents me from buying into a lot of this nonsense in the world nowadays that I see people just get swept right up into.

[Ricky Webb]

Well, I mean, you know, like, it's, you know, where I grow up it's in country roads and farm fields and like I said, it takes me 45 minutes to get to the first grocery store. So like you, like I said, seven o', clock, I drove in here and you know, everybody's kind of out walking their dogs this morning.

[Aaron]

Oh, everybody has a lab.

[Ricky Webb]

Everybody has a lab. Yeah, everybody's walking their dogs this morning at the coffee shop, doing what they got to do do and stuff. And you know, my guys, I got 45, you know, 45 employees getting to the shop, you know, six o', clock, you know, trucks on the road immediately, like, for me, it's like there's a whole lot happening behind the scenes and it's just like, man, the credit, there's just not enough credit given to these, these guys that just that do it every single day. It's. And those dudes are living the, the real. Even the women, you know, we have 20% of our staff is women and like it. Women in the construction industry is like this taboo thing. It's like, it's like, yeah, you know, it's not talked about enough. And for me, it's like they're. They're grinding out there doing it too. You know, they're not in their boots on the ground or like in the.

[Aaron]

It's in a different. Different way. Yeah, but I think that's what people like. They're grinding in a different way. Typically. Yeah, like every once in a while you'll have one in a machine, but like 9.9 out of 10 times I have a big enough sample size. Yeah, they're making sure trucks are where they need to be. They're making sure permits or where they need to be. They're making sure subs are where they need to be. They're making sure, hey, this, this bids due next Thursday.

[Ricky Webb]

Yep. Making sure. Yeah, making sure the spreadsheets are right. Making sure, you know, our shop manager, I mean, she makes sure that the parts are order and things come in at a time or overnight in this and getting it there, you know, and making sure the mechanics are where everything is, supporting this, that staff, you know, but they're making those phone calls, they're making, you know, they're. They're doing with clients, they're dealing with clients a lot of times, you know, not getting the respect that they deserve, you know, and for me, it's like, you know, the respect that, that needs to be given to the, to our staff and the people that do our kind of work is they shouldn't be looked down with disdain and Things like that, you know what I'm saying? It's a, it's a whole nother world out there and they're making it happen, dude, every day. Every day. And it's. I don't know, I'm proud of our people and, you know, I'm proud to be in this industry. I love demolition and I love construction and I love, and I, you know, I get, I get up every day and I just love to see it happen. I love the machine swinging. I love the smell of diesel fuel. My little kids, you know, they come into the shop and my little daughter, she's like, daddy, I love that smell. Like, that's grease and diesel fuel, honey. You know, that's what pays the bills. That's awesome. You know, and so it's, it's cool to like, you know, be a part of that, I guess. It's fun. I enjoy it.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Yeah. Grease on a machine, diesel fuel, just fresh crushed concrete.

[Ricky Webb]

Right, Right. Yeah. There are some days you want to sit in the, in the coffee shop and drink a latte and get away from it all, you know, and I'm sure there's a lot of my employees that wish they could do that and stuff like that as well. But. Yeah, you know, you're just trying to provide, you're providing opportunity any chance you get. And you can't always provide this plush, cozy, comfortable space to work in, you

[Aaron]

know, and like, it shouldn't be that way. It'll never be that way. Like, that's where I'm almost like, I was thinking about it. It's a, it's like a, it's a very, very half baked thought. But I'm almost. And I've been the one facilitating a lot of this, which is why it's like I need to do more thinking about.

[Ricky Webb]

Careful.

[Aaron]

But I'm almost just tired of the conversation about how we, we need more people in the industry.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And we need more respect. This and that. Like, what if all that's wrong? Like, what if we've never gotten respect? What if we never will get respect? But that's the whole, that's the whole point.

[Ricky Webb]

Like, that's what makes the industry what it is.

[Aaron]

That's what makes the world right.

[Ricky Webb]

The world right.

[Aaron]

Just.

[Ricky Webb]

That's the real life. That's the nitty gritty.

[Aaron]

Yeah, I see. And I, I had an experience recently and it was about respect. It was like the, the ego. Aaron was like, you know, I deserve respect for this. Like, because I did this and they should give me the credit that I deserve.

[Ricky Webb]

Right.

[Aaron]

But then I, like, slapped myself. You know, the other guy on my shoulder was like, no, you asshole. Like, you don't get the respect. You won't get the respect. But you changed their lives. That's all you need to know.

[Ricky Webb]

That's it. Yeah.

[Aaron]

And they. They will never respect you for that, but you know that you did it and that's it. That. That should be enough. That should be enough. And it's like maybe we're framing this wrong. Maybe, like, we're trying to get respect from people. We're not. I don't think we're gonna get it. And, and, and, and. And maybe one day if, like, the power shuts, but I don't think we're ever gonna get it. But that's. That's the point.

[Ricky Webb]

Well, there's respect within the industry.

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Ricky Webb]

You know what I'm saying? And really, for me, I don't need respect outside of that. I know what I do. I know what my people do. I know what my people are good at. And our work speaks for itself. Himself. So, you know, when you drive by and there's that building today, and then you drive by and then there's building. But a lot of times people like, oh, another demo. Oh, they're putting another gas station. Oh, gosh, you know, they're. It's dusty. It's a mess. It's so dirty. Oh, you know, why are they. Oh, they're putting in another apartment complex. Oh, they're doing this. It's, like, so negative, like, in the process of what we're doing. But then at the same time, they put a coffee shop at the bottom of that apartment complex. And that person rides by six months from now, and they're sitting like, this is nice. I really like this. I'm glad they put this here. But the whole time, they got no. We got no respect for the process of what we were doing to get there, you know, and it fed so many people in their families. And we have 50 employees. And I'm like, I don't take care of 50 employees. I take care of. I'm assuming that most has a spouse and two kids. It's feeding 200 people, 150 people is what it's providing for. And that's like, the industry, you know, it's changing. You know, there's all this talk with AI and stuff, and, like, the plumbers and the electricians and the construction workers are going to be the next millionaires because AI is going to take away all the white jobs and stuff.

[Aaron]

And I subscribe to that.

[Ricky Webb]

No, and I.

[Aaron]

That's a bullshit.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah. And I think they're just trying to justify AI and, you know, money that they're spending on it, right? Which the blue collar guys are building the billion dollar, you know, data centers and things like that and stuff, right? It is, you know, as long as.

[Aaron]

But they're not making millions of dollars.

[Ricky Webb]

No,

[Aaron]

they're building it, but they're not

[Ricky Webb]

making millions of dollars.

[Aaron]

I just haven't seen it.

[Ricky Webb]

No, I don't see that happen anytime soon. But it is providing, you know, a lifestyle that they, that they can live and that's what they like to do. You know, they want to do. Like, there's people who grow up. Like, my kids. My little boy is like two and a half years old, and I don't know what he's going to want to do when he gets older, but he loves excavators and dump trucks and stuff now. And the fact that I own a company that maybe he could go and fulfill his dream one day to run machines and do it for the rest of his life is awesome, you know, and there's no shame in that. There's no disrespect in that. A lot of guys, man, they do really well for themselves, you know.

[Aaron]

They do. Yeah. And it just like.

[Ricky Webb]

But you're like, oh, you want to grow up and do that? Like, oh, you, you know, you didn't go to college. You know, oh, you didn't go to college. And you're like, you have to go to college. You know, like.

[Aaron]

But there I'm just struggling more and more with all these talk tracks because, like, when something starts to get repeated a lot, it's like I almost back up. Like, wait a minute. Something about this is drawing people in, which, like, I need to think about this more. Anybody. Like, the AI thing has been. That's been one of those talking points. It's like, wait a minute. But it's mostly people not even in the trade saying that, which is the one thing that I'm like, how many job sites have you been out to in the past month? Zero.

[Ricky Webb]

Right.

[Aaron]

So where, where's this information coming from? Like, I.

[Ricky Webb]

A lot of it's just like, you know, I'm repeating what I've seen. Like, I've seen baked into my head, like social media and Instagram and stuff, like these little short video clips. And it's like, okay, I'm repeating what I've seen now. It's like, you know, I'm not making my own opinion and stuff. But again, like, I don't believe it,

[Aaron]

but maybe, like, like, but you are bringing.

[Ricky Webb]

You are bringing recognition to the industry.

[Aaron]

Like, I think they should be recognized.

[Ricky Webb]

Right. And so, like, you know, putting it out there, like, I don't know, social media, it's a tool for me in a sense. Right. Like, I just, like I said, I started kind of like you. Like, I just, I've always been in the demolition industry, but I love, like, just taking pictures of equipment and things like that and stuff. And so I'm just bringing awareness to what we do and making it look beautiful and realizing it's not dirty and. And nasty and stuff all the time. Like, it does provide opportunity for new things in the area. And demolition is, you know, it's progress, man. You know, and it's a part of it. And it's like. But yeah, trying to find that it does get, you know, the same things just get talked about a lot. Yeah.

[Aaron]

I'm almost just like, I'm just tired of all this. Can we just build shit? Yeah, like. Like, can we just build shit? I don't know. And maybe we're appealing to the wrong things. Like, I don't ever want to be speaking. I don't want to be putting words in the mouth of people that build stuff because I am very aware that I don't build stuff. And people are like, no, no, no, but you are. It's like, okay, yeah, I am, but I'm not. That's not. That's not taking me down. That's just acknowledging, like, I don't work hard. Like, these guys like that they. It's a different level of work. It's a different level. Could I do it? Yes. I have done it. I could do it for a career. I know that for sure. But I was put on a different path. It's not doing that. I have. Which is fine, fine. Everybody has their place. I didn't really choose where I'm at. It's just like, hey, you're going over here instead. Okay, fine. But I don't want to put words in their mouth. And I think that's what's a lot of. That's a lot of what's happening is like you have a bunch of people in the office saying, like, well, here's what. Here's what we need to do for all these people. Like, here's what they have to say. And it's like, well, do they have to say that?

[Ricky Webb]

Well, I guess. And what you like the fact that you're the big thing. You're like this podcast, right? Like, you're getting it from the horse's mouth. Like, you're allowing guys in this industry to come in and kind of not necessarily. Necessarily defend themselves, but talk about their business and stuff like that. And that's why it's so popular, because you're hearing it from. You're not hearing it from this platform everywhere else. Like, your platform's good, but you get like, a lot of. It's just like this. It's just white noise. Right. But be this platform here, being able to get people in here and talk about their business. I mean, I get a lot of valuable listening from other guys and how they. How they. And they get to say, hey, it's tough, but it's great. You know, it's good. And people love this stuff, man. It's not this, like, this bad place to be in a. In a bad environment, in a bad industry, you know? So, I mean, you are providing, like, a platform for. For people to do that, which is awesome.

[Aaron]

We're trying.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, yeah.

[Aaron]

With this, with. With social media, with Dirt World, like, and, and. And I, I have to be a part of it because I have to, like, facilitate it in a way. But I. When someone comes at me for like, oh, it's all about him, it's like, dude, this is the last thing I want to be doing. Like, be the star of the show.

[Ricky Webb]

Right.

[Aaron]

I couldn't. I couldn't want to be the face of anything less. I am so happy.

[Ricky Webb]

Well, you're not doing a very good job.

[Aaron]

And that's why I. It's like a joke, but not like something went horribly wrong along the way.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And for whatever reason, I'm the guy, but it's like, I don't want to be the guy. I don't. I don't have any interest in being the guy. Like, well, me, like, I don't have

[Ricky Webb]

my face, my social media and stuff. I don't put me on there. Right. It's my equipment and stuff, and a lot of my guys don't want their face on there. Like, some people run their social media and it's like the people and they show their people and their people and they like pictures and like, my employees did this. I'll mention my employees. They do it. But I'm. Do we just show the equipment and our jobs that we do? Because our guys don't. I don't want to be the face of it. I'm kind of let the work do. Do itself and stuff like that. But, you know, but Then I'm here on this podcast and I get value in it, right? There's value. Value, yeah.

[Aaron]

From the horse's mouth, right? Which is why, like, I have tried to, to, to get people out there a little bit more because it's like, and, and I've tried to. I still, I was wrestling with this like yesterday, like last week. The. When you're in this position, a leadership position, it is, it's a privilege. And like, there's some stuff about it that you won't be comfortable with that you don't want to do, that you don't like, but no one fucking cares. It's your job. Like, that's the position. If you don't want the position, if you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen, then don't run the company if you don't want to be, you know, the, the face of it in some ways. And I think, like, and it's, it's. I, like guys almost let their ego get in the way of it.

[Ricky Webb]

Like, humility is like the biggest, like stoicism, like, humility.

[Aaron]

But they, but they, but that's how they avoid it, is they, they put it in this humility wrapper. Like, well, I don't want to be talking about me, this and that. I don't want to be the center of attention. But then it's like in that process, you're starving your people of leadership, of vision, of knowing who you are. And I put myself back in like the 18, 19, 20 year old Aaron, 17 year old Aaron, 16 year old. When I started working, it's like I wanted nothing more than to know who I was working for and know them and why they were doing what they were doing and where they're going, where we're going, what. I'm okay, I'm getting on this ship. Where, where's point B? Like, okay, I'm, I'll get on.

[Ricky Webb]

And I struggle with that too. Like, do I do enough of that? Am I giving my guys like that leadership and that? Like, hey, I'm steering the ship. I mean, they know the ship's going in the right direction. And I tell them, hey, listen, we got two or three years work backlog. It's great job security. You don't have to stick it out, you know, you just keep sticking out. You do. But like, you know, I'm constantly struggling with, am I doing more? Should I be doing more? Should I be boots on the ground in the field? Should I be in the office looking at spreadsheets? Like, where is My time, most valuable. And a lot of times for me, it's just. You could talk about. You don't ever sit down and really talk about it. Never really sit down and think about it, because you just get up in the morning, and then you go, here. Sure. This is where you need it.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

This is what you have to do, and this is the demand.

[Aaron]

And then, like, two years can go by, and you're like, what just happened?

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah. And I don't. I mean. I mean, maybe there's nothing wrong with that. Maybe that's just what it is, you know? As long as you do it well and you do it successful and you bring people along with you, then, hey, what's wrong with that? Yeah, I mean, it's. It's. It's a tough thing to. You get, like. And then you get successful and you do well, then you have, like, this imposter syndrome that maybe you shouldn't be here and you shouldn't be doing well, and maybe it's just all luck.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

You know, but you realize that, like, your people have worked their ass off to get you here.

[Aaron]

But. But also, a lot of it is luck. Like, there's also a lot of guys patting themselves on the back a little too much. I've been guilty 100 times over. But the more I get into it, the more I'm like, yo, like, there's

[Ricky Webb]

jobs that we've won. That's like a phone call. I just got lucky. Right. At the right time, right place. I went to a meeting, and someone's like, hey, I got this job. You want to look at it? You're like, sure. Next thing you know, it's a huge job. You know, just. I called. I've called a sign on a fence before. Just say, hey, you know, I saw. You're gonna. You're gonna be tearing this building down. Like, yeah, as a matter of fact, we are. We don't have a demo guy yet. You want to do it? Sure. I'll give you a number. Lucky. Boom. Half a million dollar job.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

I called a sign on a fence.

[Aaron]

I think, like, you know, like, luck

[Ricky Webb]

has a lot to do with it.

[Aaron]

Has a lot to do with it. If you're putting the. If the game plan is based on luck, that's a bad. You got to work. Like, you have to work.

[Ricky Webb]

You have to follow up. Yeah. You got to follow up with the look.

[Aaron]

Yeah. But. But to think that you control outcomes is so crazy and that. I think, like, the fundraising process, it's been one of the more miserable Things I've ever done in my life. I mean, I would maybe put it next to like, engineering school on, like, because it's been like four years, five years. Like, it's been this long duration of just. Just wait. And. And I've had to process a lot as I've gone on. And when I got into it, it's like, I'm gonna make this happen. I'm gonna do everything to make this happen. And it's like, yeah, I can do my best, but I can't make it happen. I can't. And along the way, I've had to be like, listen, I am going to give this my best. I know. If it's my best or not. I know. And that's just between me and the guy in the mirror.

[Ricky Webb]

That's it.

[Aaron]

Like, yeah, that's it.

[Ricky Webb]

You have to be honest with yourself. Yeah. A lot of times, you know, in this position, you have to, like, look in the mirror. It's lonely at the top.

[Aaron]

That's it. But all I can do is just go flat out, do my best. Whatever happens, happens. And it's like, that's kind of how it works.

[Ricky Webb]

And that's, you know, getting that. Getting the people below you within your. In the ranks and all the way down to the labor to understand. A lot of times, just give it your best. Like, doing your best sometimes takes you a lot further than you think. You know, not just going through the motions. Not just, you know, looking good, you know, but just doing your best, giving it your all. A lot of times, create your own luck, you know, you create your own opportunity, you create your own position, you create your own thing. Like, you know, and it's, it's. We, we try to, you know, we don't have this, like, plan for this guy. He starts as a laborer and, you know, two years from now, we're going to transfer you to a formation. And then two years from now, we're going to transfer you to this or whatever. A lot of times for ours, it's like, you know, he's a laborer for two years, then all of a sudden the guy quits. He fills in that gap because that's there. And then, you know, it's like the next thing you know, he's running a machine and stuff, and you're like, well, you know, it's a little bit of luck. You were there, you had the right time in the right place. You just. And you worked your ass off the whole entire time to get here. And now hopefully you take it from there. But you can't, you can't. You got to go out every day hard.

[Aaron]

Yeah, you know, that's without a doubt.

[Ricky Webb]

And that's at any level. Yes, any level.

[Aaron]

Yeah. To be successful, that, that's table stakes.

[Ricky Webb]

That's it.

[Aaron]

Yeah, you've got, you've got to go flat out. But then also to think that I can go, like, there's value in visualization and this and that. But also, like, again, all these are half baked thoughts. I'm having a lot of them now. But to think that I can just go say, I'm gonna be here in five years, there's value in that. But then I think that can also do you a grave disservice because I think we talked about dinner. You can get so fixated on this thing that you pass by these other maybe more profitable ventures or turns, but you're just so fixated on, on the objective that you lose track of like, shit, I've just been going straight for two years, three years, and I probably should have taken a left back there.

[Ricky Webb]

Or you were, yeah, you were so fixated on that end goal that you just. Yeah. You know, you missed the whole, you missed the whole left hand.

[Aaron]

And it's like, I got it, but why, Right, but. And there's so many people that's like,

[Ricky Webb]

why do you do what you do? Right? Like, why do you, like, what do you get fulfillment out? Like, and that's what it is, you know, like, it's, it's, it's. But I, I think that process is what you enjoy.

[Aaron]

But. Yeah, yes, but, but this is where, like, this is where the religious piece for me comes into place. Because to think it's just me, I, the further I get is more and more foolish. Like, this is just my life. This is just what I want. It's like, dude, like, how, how arrogant can I be to think that this is me, me, me, me, me. Like, it's not me. I still have to do the work. I have to do my work, but I also have to listen to where I'm supposed to be going in the first place. And that might be very different to what I want today or to what I think I'm going to get. Does that make sense?

[Ricky Webb]

It does, it does. But do you. Like, I would say there's a lot of people who get in this industry and they don't think at that level. Right. They're just like, it's, it's a means to an end. I got to make money. This is a way for me to provide Money. And that's all it is, right? And that's. And a lot of times they look at, you know, maybe us and having this conversation and going, wow, you guys are making this way bigger. It's just demo, man, or it's just construction, dude. Just, you know, just getting the machine and rock and roll. But when you get to a level where you can look back at what you've created, right? And like a legacy, like, I'm third generation, you know, and my dad is doing this for me. It's crazy what we've built. And then I'm like, okay, well, I'm going to do this for 60 years. Are we going to be 60 years in business? Are we going to be 70 years in business? Like, where do we. Where do we go from here? And a lot of me, like, I don't. I don't have this, like, end goal. I don't know where, like you said, I kind of. I don't want to miss that left turn or right turn. It kind of just naturally happens, you know, we're just going to do what we do, and we do it very, very well.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

And we're going to rock and roll at it. And. And if we, you know, if we pick up this job or this type of work or whatever, and a lot of times I'm like, yeah, great, man. If we do this, then we can pick up five more people or something, and then that provides, you know, the spin off. But it's just an entrepreneurial mindset to be like, I don't know, like, you want to open up this business? And you're like, man, I don't need any. I don't really need any more.

[Aaron]

But that. That's my problem. Even with, like, I'm gonna. I'm building this business for my kids, for the next generation to take over. And even that's like, dude, your kid, what you say is like, two.

[Ricky Webb]

Well, Mike, son. Yeah, two and a half.

[Aaron]

Two and a half.

[Ricky Webb]

It's like, how do you know that?

[Aaron]

That's the thing. Partners.

[Ricky Webb]

Like, if they don't want to do it. Yeah.

[Aaron]

Okay. I'm not saying this is what you're doing, but I hear this all the time. Like, that's the rationale. I'm building it for my kids. And it's like, dude, your kids? 5. Like, how do you know? How do you know?

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, how do you know? Like, like, my dad got lucky in a sense that, like, I know no other ways in my blood, right? And my dad was like, you know, you know, it's like, hey, hey dad, what are you doing for retirement? He's like, you. And it's like, you're my retirement, you know, and it's like I joke about it, you know, now, but I mean it's in, in a sense I keep the business running and take care of them and that's what, that's what the plan is. And it was a great plan for second generation type people. That's what they're doing. It was an awesome plan. But it's so different now. The world's so different now for what we do and what our kids do and what they want to do. And who, like you said, who knows what this industry is going to be 10, 15, 20 years from now. Right? I mean I know you're still have to tear buildings down and stuff like that, but I'm not going to force my kids to do if they don't want to do it. But at the same time for me it's like if they do want to do it, awesome, sure, fantastic.

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Ricky Webb]

And I'll give them as much help. There's a lot of people in our business too. Like there's employees of mine that have their kids that work for, for us

[Aaron]

and which is really cool.

[Ricky Webb]

It's cool. Yeah. And it's, it works for some and it doesn't for others, you know, and, and I like it anytime we can, but because there's a different level of, you know, once they get in, there's a different level of, you know, of pride and care that people take. But it's a learning curve as well for that, you know. And so, you know, I would like my kids to do it, but it's tough business too. I kind of going back to like that. It's that you hit on a lot of times like the mental health, the stress, the type of work it is, you know, it can be unhealthy to a certain level if you can't manage it right. And so you can't for your kids. You're like, oh, I'm doing this and I'm working hard so they don't have to have this kind of hard work mentality lifestyle. So they have that, you know, maybe cushier white collar thing, but at the same time for me it builds like a massive amount of character. I think some people that I have in this industry are like the coolest people, the most interesting people you've ever met in your life. They have the greatest stories, you know. But if you could get the, the health and the mindset and the Mental health and all that stuff and the stress reduced in this industry, I think it'd be a lot more attractive.

[Aaron]

But that there's so many. And that's like one of the just greatest ironies in life is so many parents are trying to work so hard to prevent the suffering of their children.

[Ricky Webb]

Right.

[Aaron]

Even though the suffering is what made them. Them in the first place.

[Ricky Webb]

I mean, I, I contribute a lot of my success to how tough my dad was on me, you know what I'm saying?

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

And at that time, which like I said, you know, I didn't. I was, I was raised in very fortunate, but my dad still was tough on me and he made thing and it was hard work and that's what it was. And it molded me who I am. So it's like, as I raise my children, it's like, how tough do I need to be on them? You know what I'm saying? It's a, it's a weird spot. You don't. I don't even know until you have kids.

[Aaron]

I don't have kids.

[Ricky Webb]

And, and the people that work for us and they have kids and stuff, they're tough on them, you know, they're real tough on. They hold them to a higher standard. Yeah. Right. And so for me, it's, it's like. But I want them to be successful in whatever they do, you know, and, and you just want them to, you want to have a good lifestyle and stuff. So it's a, it's a weird place to, to be right now and thinking of like, where I'm at with my business and my children and stuff like that. I'm just thankful that luckily it's all, you know, you just sometimes just gotta look back and just be happy that like the economy is good and think, well, you know, it's relative, I guess whatever you. If whatever news, news you watch, if it's good or not. Right. But yeah, the fact that we're successful in business and we're busy and things like that, sometimes it's like you just got to keep it that simple, man. That's what you got to do.

[Aaron]

That's.

[Ricky Webb]

That's all it is.

[Aaron]

It's all it is.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

It's just your, it's just the world around you and that's. That's it. Yeah, I just.

[Ricky Webb]

The further.

[Aaron]

Yeah, the further I've. I've got, the. More like even for parents to think that they can prevent the suffering of their kids is crazy.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Like, that's. Sure. Maybe you can prevent some acute suffering from Like a financial standpoint. But then I've seen. I mean, I've seen kids get all kinds of money so many times over, and then it just springboards them into this other kind of suffering. That's crazy. Like, I would argue is even worse and more devious because it's not acute. You can't really put your finger on it. It's more of, like, this just dull pain for maybe their whole life. Like, it's. It's so sad. It's so sad.

[Ricky Webb]

I mean, there's all kinds of quotes, but, like, doing hard things is. The. The. The. The benefit you get from it is massive. Right. You can't just, like, coddle people.

[Aaron]

No, you can't. No, no, no, no. And that. That. Yeah, that. That. Yeah. And that. That. Going back to the. My points about the messaging is like, I think that's what a lot of people are doing with the messaging. Messaging. They're. They're manipulating the messaging to serve their purposes, which is we need more people.

[Ricky Webb]

Right.

[Aaron]

So we'll just say whatever we need to say.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

But what we're saying doesn't align with the reality of the work.

[Ricky Webb]

Well, and it's almost like, for me, like, that's, you know, when you put an ad on. You know, put an ad for hiring people, come work in this great team environment and the culture's awesome and all this stuff, which, you know, like, we went through this thing of, like, our culture and try to get it straight and stuff like that, and Covid happened and all this. And really what it comes down to, man, it's just like. Like, we, like our team is we have culture in the sense of, like, they're just, like, tough guys that will get the work done. And sometimes they don't work fantastic as a team, but when you put them together individually, they do get shit done. Yeah. Which is awesome. My guys work, like, we'll go out to a job site, and we have, like, one excavator, one laborer. Right. Lots of times we don't have, like, six guys. We don't have, like, all these superintendents who are constantly coming by, checking on them. High five. And things like that. We send an operator out to the job. He's by himself, and he works for, you know, eight weeks by himself. Right. With one labor, and he gets the truck drivers, and that's all the people he talks to. He talks to our project manager and our general superintendent and things like that. But you put five of those individual working guys together on a job, and sometimes it takes a couple Weeks for them to all get together and work together. But they. They do amazing things when they do. But there's this, you know, I kind of. It's almost like there needs to be this talk about how sometimes it's. It's not all hunky dory. It's not all beautiful. There's not this beautiful package and the culture. And it's on all culture. Sometimes it's just we work and we get things done and we don't have maybe this, like, when I put an ad out to hire people and stuff, it's like, hey, come. Come work for us. If you like to be fulfilled and work by yourself and you're kind of your. Your own boss. Yeah. And your own responsibility and take pride in what you do. You know, that's kind of the place we are when you come work for us.

[Aaron]

Yeah, it's. I. I think I saw, like, an ad. I was maybe in Chicago the other day and saw an ad for like a. Yeah, it was like, bus drivers. Yeah. And just a guy that's, like, stoked out of his mind, like, come join our collaborative culture. I'm like, dude, how many of your bus drivers want to drive off a bridge?

[Ricky Webb]

Dude, my mom was a bus driver my whole childhood, and she actually drove, like, the specials need bus and. And stuff like that. And I, you know, like, and I rode the bus when I grew up. And I can tell you right now, like, it is not this thumbs up, smiling all the time position, kids screaming high school and stuff like that, the disrespect they get and everything, you know? But yeah, I mean, it's so much. But you can't. Can you market it the other way and tell the truth where it's like, come work for us. It's gonna be rough, but, you know, this might suck, but, you know, it's pay. Sure. I would.

[Aaron]

I would argue, like, at least our industry would be better off. Just saying it's not for everybody.

[Ricky Webb]

Right.

[Aaron]

It's probably not for you.

[Ricky Webb]

Well, I mean, when people come into my door, it's the first thing I'm like, listen, you know, you might, you know, if you want to come in and just be a truck driver and hold the steer. Well, you might just be a truck driver. That's great. Yeah. But, like, if you're willing to be a truck driver and then jump in equipment here sometime and then go sweep the parking lot or, like, go do. That's job security. But it's tough. I just tell them, like, listen, like, we have, like, when I hire you, this is kind of what we do. But you could be doing anything. And really, I look at it like, I'll estimate one day I'll jump in the machine. Another day I'll, you know, go look at attachments. Another day I'll buy equipment. One day I'll look at spreadsheets. One day it's like, whatever needs to be done. Whatever needs to be done. And sometimes having that mindset and that's really like, hey, man, this place moves fast. Come work for us. If you like doing something different every single day and kind of running around with your head chopped off, you know, like, yeah, you might enjoy it here,

[Aaron]

you know, but that's what you're looking for. Well, you would then go hire anybody.

[Ricky Webb]

That's what I'm looking for. So, like, you can't put this ad out and say, this is what we do. And it. Then the person comes and works for you and they're like, this is not what your ad said. Exactly. You know, So a lot of times when you bring the people in, we kind of be honest with them.

[Aaron]

And especially like this generation and especially post Covid, like, dude, post Covid.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

When everybody's sitting around like, wait a minute. So everything the government says is probably not true. Did we really go to the moon? You know, like, yeah, you're like really starting to question everything because you've been lied to every which way apparently your entire life. Now you're like, wait a minute. So everything's been a lie? Like, everything's been a lie?

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

So when an employer comes to you and says it's gonna be xyz, like, what do you, what do you think they're thinking? Like, oh, yeah, oh yeah, that's right. Or it's like Crocker shit.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Like, that's what I'm thinking when I see that ad. I'm like, bullshit.

[Ricky Webb]

Right? Boo. Right?

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

I mean, believe me, I've contemplated when we, every time we put them out, I was like, I can't package. It's just pretty. Because sometimes it's not pretty. Like, it's not. So, I mean, like our industry, sometimes it's not pretty. Like, you're going to be out there in 100 degree weather and you'd be sweating your ass off and it's going to be hot. You're going to get frustrated and you're going to, you know, you're going to get into it with your guy next to you and stuff. Now he's going to be, you know, the next day, you know, you Might make amends and stuff like that, but you are going to accomplish some. And there's nothing cooler than going and working your ass off for six months on this huge ass building and then you leave and it's a green yard.

[Aaron]

But that's, that's also the reality of just building stuff in harsh conditions as well. It's. Again, it's like one of the things I think about office people. They don't like swearing, but I'm like, dude, you need swearing in the field. I would argue you don't have to swear. Yeah, but that, that was a, that was an essential part of my development as a construction worker back in the day. Talking shit with the people around you and most of the time it's choking every once in a while. You really mean it. Like, fuck these. Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

A little backhanded, you know, at the same time. Completely.

[Aaron]

And they'll say it right back. Yeah, but they're, I think that's what it takes. You gotta actually do something. Yeah. It's not like, it's not like let's all sit around, let's talk about our feelings, let's have some collaboration, right? Let's, let's sit in a circle and let's really talk.

[Ricky Webb]

It's like, oh, we should have probably way more like operators meetings and superintendent meetings and all these things. Get everybody out of there and make sure they all work together. We should have team building and all that stuff. But you know, my group of guys don't, don't thrive on that, you know, like, we'll have our company parties and we'll do like some cookouts and things like that and stuff. And. But you know, they, they want to do their thing, man. They want to get it done. They want to go to work, you know, like, and they appreciate this stuff. I'm sure they would love for us to do it more and everything, but. Yeah, I mean, it's not like this, this just everybody holding hands and singing songs and, you know, we're all good, you know, and the, you know, I, the, the custom thing is always funny because my wife, you know, I got the kids now and she's always like, you know, language, you know, watch, you know, watch it. You know, I never realized how much I cost until, gosh, I got around my kids and now my daughter, like,

[Aaron]

you know, she calls me little, their little parrots.

[Ricky Webb]

Oh, dude, it's crazy. And, but I always, like, I always said that like, man, I could be talking to like an estimator and it's all formal and you're talking to him and stuff and as soon as you like drop the F bomb or around him or something like that, he turned. You've broken through this barrier where now you guys are on a different wavelength. This industry is so funny like that, you know, but you get some young people that come into industry and you're like, hey man, this guy cussed me out. And then you asked the guy what he said and you're like, dude, that wasn't. Yeah, you weren't getting cussed out, man. He was just. Yeah, that's how he talks.

[Aaron]

Well, but, but that's why I, I swear, especially out in the field. One, I enjoy it. I love swearing.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

But two, just immediately breaks that barrier down and it's like, wait a minute, this isn't some asshole from the office. Well, it is some asshole from an office, but, but he, he at least is meeting us where we are.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And I, and I won't go into an executive office and be swearing. Like, I know how to, how to. And, and just be you. Yes. But also, no, that's not how the world works. You do have to read the room a little bit to be effective. But it's, it's, it's essential out the field. Like it's just. And I feel like if people in the office spent even one day doing what the people out in the field did, just a day, a half day.

[Ricky Webb]

Right.

[Aaron]

This industry would be a dramatically better place. Dramatically, dude, if you just made GCS work, like do anything.

[Ricky Webb]

Well, there's a lot of GCs that try to self perform and stuff like that and then they realize that it's not as simple as what it is. And then hopefully they back off their subcontractors and treat them with a little more respect. Because even there's not even respect from the GC to the subcontractor, to be honest.

[Aaron]

Well, because you have all these people in the company that have never worked.

[Ricky Webb]

It's like the best GCs, the best superintendents are the ones that did the work beforehand. Right? Yes. You know, I can relate.

[Aaron]

That was like, that's why civil companies, I think are better.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Because they are the Supers, the PMs.

[Ricky Webb]

Right.

[Aaron]

They've probably gone through the ranks.

[Ricky Webb]

Right.

[Aaron]

And so at one, like, I don't think you need to do it that long. I think, I think a few months in a ditch.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Aaron]

It teaches you.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah. And maybe go back every now and then just to realize that. Like, hey, and make sure it's 100 degrees outside. Like don't go out or go out there when it's 60 or. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't go out there when it's 75 and beautiful. Yeah. Go out there when it sucks or wet. Yeah, exactly, yeah. And then they're like, oh man, why did this guy stop four times for a water break? He's like, cuz he's about to die. Like it's hot, dude. Like, give him a break, you know, Let him get a break, you know, and you know, like, it's. We should probably do it more, you know. Luckily we're not so disconnected from our field and stuff. And the ladies in the office and the guys in the office aren't, you know, it's like you try to get like, hey, when you're out about riding around, swing in there real quick, just take a look at what they're doing and stuff like that, you know. But even I get just, just, you know, sensitized to it for me, like I, I need to get out there more. And every time I get out there and I would love to run equipment more, but every time I do, I go, ah, okay, I see what this guy, he was complaining about this for, you know, a couple months and I kind of put it on the back burner and then I'll like be in the machine and I'll, this is frustrating, this is frustrating. And then I literally make the phone call to like my, you know, general superintendent or my, my shop lady and I'm like, go ahead and get this ordered. Like go ahead and get this done, you know, and then I'm like, damn, I'm an asshole. You know, this guy's like, I'm terrible boss. I should have done this a long time ago. You know, like, oh, no wonder. Maybe that guy quit or something like that because I didn't get to it. But there's so many moving parts and it's hard to hire people. You want to have all these layers and you want, you know, this person to look out for this person, all that stuff, but we don't have all these layers, you know, it's. It's very short stack of, you know, at the top, you know, our people are down below us and you try to listen to them as much as possible and get them what they need. But there's a lot of moving parts and it moves fast, you know, and you can't do everything and be everything at once. And you got to space stuff out and cash flow becomes a problem and you know, some wants and needs, you know, that's really Hard to juggle. Can you do it this month? Can you put it in next month?

[Aaron]

You know, every business owner is playing that game, dude. Yeah, but. But I think that's where again, you just. If you're just honest with people and

[Ricky Webb]

that's the time I try to explain to them. I'm like, listen, man, I hear you. Yeah, I got you. It's coming. It's probably not going to be this month. Probably not. You know, it's probably going to be two months from now when we can actually do it or, hey, listen, I got it. I ordered it. And it's going to take this long to get it in. You just got to be patient.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

It's going to come, I promise. Now, if I don't do it for six months. Okay with it. Maybe you should. Yeah. Then. Then if you leave, I can't get mad at you.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Ricky Webb]

Because I didn't do my part right. But. Yeah.

[Aaron]

How'd you lose your finger?

[Ricky Webb]

All right. That's a good story. Yeah. So I was in maybe seven or eight years ago. I'd have to. I can't remember actually how long ago it was, but was like my. My dad and them were still kind of estimating bidding the jobs. We were kind of coming out of the recession. You know, my dad was big right before the recession. The recession really took us down to our knees, and we shrunk quite a bit. And then that's when I came out of college, was 2010 when I graduated. And it was kind of like, come in. You know, it was either go work somewhere else or come do what I'd always known. And so I was just gung ho, 500 mile an hour. And we were trying to get. We had a repeat customer that we started doing a bunch of gas station demolitions. 711 was coming through and like remodeling, like every gas station in, like, the Hampton Roads area.

[Aaron]

Okay.

[Ricky Webb]

And so we. We kind of teamed up with them and. And there was this one job that they wanted to keep the outside of the building instead of taking it down. And we were moving some beams out of the building, and the building should have been tore down, but they hadn't, you know, had tax credits or something like that. And the. I jumped up on a ladder. You know, we had all the equipment there, everything set up. You know, we were. We were holding it with a. We could have had a crane. We were holding it with an excavator. And I knocked the block out and the beam swung down out of the block. The whole block just Crumbled because it was like. And when I jumped off the ladder and when I did it, my finger got stuck in the bar joist and I fell faster than the beam did and it just yanked my finger off, man.

[Aaron]

And that was that.

[Ricky Webb]

And that was the worst. That's the worst injury we've had in all of East Coast. And it was me.

[Aaron]

Whoa.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, so. And I shattered my shoulder and stuff.

[Aaron]

Oh, yeah. Just the. Because I caught the force to take your finger. Yeah. Like.

[Ricky Webb]

Well, when I landed on the ground, I caught myself.

[Aaron]

Oh.

[Ricky Webb]

So, I mean, you know, it's. It's something that comes up in conversation. Because a lot of times I'll go like this. Yeah.

[Aaron]

I didn't even recognize. A lot of people.

[Ricky Webb]

Don't.

[Aaron]

You made a comment about it then

[Ricky Webb]

I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, it's. It's. I will tell you, it's one for me. Like, I'm so glad it happened to me and nobody else, like. And it completely changed my mindset. I was like, moving. I was just, you know, it was just. I was young.

[Aaron]

I was, yeah, full pisses.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah. I was going. I thought, you know, I thought I had it figured out. And I was trying to do too many things at one time. And like, Like a light switched to me and my dad and my vp and all them were like, listen, like, you got to get. We, you know, you got to get here in the office. We need to sit you down. We need to, you know, we got to. You can't be out there running around like that and stuff. Like, you got to take it, you know, we can't. You can't have this happen again. And so then I. Basically, my mentality moving forward was, I know I stayed in the field, but everything was different. I bid jobs differently. I changed how we approach things differently. And we were safe when we did. It was just one of those kind of one offs. It's not like we didn't. It wasn't safe what we were doing. It was just one of those, you know, you're doing demolition. It's. There's no plan. A lot of times, you know, um, it's a crumbling structure. And a lot of times you get in this position, that's like, oh, shit. And so for me now, when I bid a job or when I talk to my guys, my foreman and stuff like that, they're doing it. That's why I invest actually so heavily into the equipment innovation. I'm trying to remove the people from the physical work as much as possible because it happened to me and I thought I had everything right. And so like you can be very confident in what you're doing and it still go wrong. Yeah, that's demolition. It happens. And so for me it was one of those things where like now I'm like, listen, you get what you need. Whatever you need, you get it. If you need this type of boom, you need this crane, whatever. Even if I lose money, I would rather lose money than somebody get hurt like I did. And I'm so thankful it happened to me and not because I would be, I would feel terrible if it happened to one of my other people. For me, is my fault. Like I'm, that's my, that was my, that was my fault. Sure. You know, and I'm not going anywhere. But yeah, now I'm like the, you know, top safety guy and everything with the missing finger. You know, I got stories to tell and everything. And you never realize how many people have appendages that are missing until you lose something. It's like a common. There's so many people in the industry. Yeah, they're like, oh, you're missing a finger.

[Aaron]

Oh, you know, I'm missing this piece.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, my inventory guy, like I, I would have never noticed and he's missing a finger and stuff. It happens quite a bit. But now it's like every time we do a job, I'm like, listen, you know it, you all feel safe doing it, you got it. We got a plan. We talk it through. We get all the equipment, everything we need. We, you know, we have all that, we do our inspections and all that. But I just make sure that they. Which I think is a big problem with our industry actually is people are trying to cut corners so much and not do it. The expense, they're just trying to cut cost. The lowest dollar wins. And we just don't bid like that. We're not, you know, I'm not going to. If we're going to get the job, we're going to have it. We're going to price it right and have the right equipment and there to do it. Because the last thing I want is for someone to get hurt, man.

[Aaron]

Well, and equipment is probably the best way to prevent that. It's just remove people from those scenarios as much as possible. You can't eliminate it.

[Ricky Webb]

It is because you can train, train, train as much as you want, but it's human nature to. You can't pick that person's decision making process through every step. You can train them as much as they want, but a lot of it's experience. Right. And having an experienced guy, there's. But the one thing I can control from my. From where I'm at is giving them the right equipment to do the job. Right. The safety factor is. Is almost eliminated at that point. Then the decision then if something goes wrong and it hits. If it hits a. A lift or a boom or it hits an excavator or something like that, I can. Okay, great. I have to put a new, you know, cab on or a new windshield on it or whatever. Like, that's okay. 10 grand. All right? It is what it is. You can't replace a finger. You can't replace someone's. You know, you can't replace something that thank God that nothing has bad happened and knock on wood. But, you know, it's something I think about daily, you know, because you're trusting the guys that make the right decisions. All right. All the time.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

But safety training is important, but for us, you know, I had. I knew what. What to do there, but if I maybe had some different equipment or something like that, or sometimes it's. You know, the GC will push you into different directions and push you into. Or the owners will push you into unsafe directions or something like that.

[Aaron]

And that happens a lot. And people don't talk about that. But. And even, like, they. A lot of times, it's not you go do this.

[Ricky Webb]

No, it's. No, no, no.

[Aaron]

It's they. It's the schedule that they go create or they say, just make it happen. We're taking the weekend off.

[Ricky Webb]

Right?

[Aaron]

You're gonna work, Wink. Just make it happen. Yeah, I've heard. I've heard about that all the time.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

But a lot of it's just schedule driven.

[Ricky Webb]

A lot of it is. Yeah, a lot of it is. And. And, you know, for me, I try to tell my guys, like, if you don't. If you don't feel safe or you don't feel something's right, just call. I'd rather you call me. And. And we stop and take a look, and I'll come out there and take a look at it. My guys have gotten really good at that. You know, like, hey, this situation popped up. We opened up the building in this wall, and we found out this beam sits in this pocket. It's not attached to this column. What do you want us to do? Okay, well, normally you would go in there and shore it up and, you know, put your guys all around it, rig it with the crane or whatever, but we can go, oh, no, we're Going to just bring that machine in with the shear. He'll come in, chew the wall, do the separation, and cut it with the me. With the shear, and you grab it, and next thing you know, the whole column falls down and everything, and it collapses. And you're like, okay, that's cool, because I didn't have people in there. Sure. You know, so that's why we have all the special again, all the tools and things like that, because it's. You're able to kind of bob and weave and make those decisions. So it's not like you have to worry about the safety factor as much.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but if somebody's not there, if

[Ricky Webb]

someone's not there, if you remove that person as much as possible. That's the beauty of the autonomous stuff to a certain extent. But you still got. People do the work and. Yeah, the schedules sometimes, man, are so. And they're getting worse. They're just getting worse and worse. The schedules are getting so tight, it's insane. I mean, you're working on top of everybody, you know, Hope to God you work, you're teamed up with another subcontractor who's good and works with you, but sometimes you get teamed up with another subcontractor and they're cutting corners and putting you in unsafe conditions. So, you know, it's. It's definitely not talked about enough, but for us, yeah, it was a big. It was a big shift in how we did business. I wouldn't say shift in how we did business. Let me. Let me go back and say we did business the same. It was a shift in my thought process on how I looked at, like, my approach to projects, but in equipment and stuff.

[Aaron]

Even. Even with your guys being able to call you, you still have to have that relationship with them at the baseline for that to even happen. Like, I've. I've heard a lot, like. And I've talked about this, like, the stop work authority thing.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

It only works if there's the relationship there.

[Ricky Webb]

Who are you talking to about that? And they. They had like a. Just take five or something like that.

[Aaron]

Yeah. But I'm like, dude, I'm. If I'm 19 years old and I'm new to the crew and I'm trying to prove myself right. I ain't stopping shit.

[Ricky Webb]

I got you.

[Aaron]

No.

[Ricky Webb]

Well, you tell that to your people. And you heard that your people are telling that to the other people. And then, you know, it's a telephone game. It gets down to the last guy, and he's like, I didn't Know, I could do that, you know, and so, so that, you know, there's that, that gap there.

[Aaron]

Even, like with safety, you hear all the same, same stuff. Stay off your phone, wear your seatbelt, slip strip and falls. PPE I can. I've sat through so many of these meetings now, it's mind numbing. I almost wish, like, like, actually, we're actually getting pretty lucky. We'll sit down with like, the safety guy and he'll be like, you guys know this stuff better than I do, so we don't even have to go through it. I'm like, oh, yeah. But then every once in a while, it's like, all right, here's our safety presentation. And he starts going to it and he's like, on slide three. I'm like, he's gonna make us sit through this entire thing, isn't he? Like, we're.

[Ricky Webb]

Check the box.

[Aaron]

We are by the book right now. Thank. All right, good. I'm glad I know where to. What to do with my hot work equipment when I'm here to take some pictures. I'm glad we've got hot work covered.

[Ricky Webb]

Hey, man, as long as you got that sticker on your hardware hard hat, you are safe as can be out there.

[Aaron]

But, but we, we do get lucky. And, and I don't want to make a joke about it. Like, it's serious. I take it really, really seriously. Yeah, yeah, but, well, like, you don't hear. You don't hear, like, hey, just go a little slower. Well, like, just go a little slower.

[Ricky Webb]

Well, that's how.

[Aaron]

Just take your time. Yeah, you don't hear people saying, take your time.

[Ricky Webb]

There's a lot of times I'll be like, well, well, how did that happen? I was like, oh, man, I was rushing. I was like, why were you rushing? And they were like, I was just trying to get done. And I'm like, who was telling you to get it done that I wasn't. I didn't call you and say like, hey man, get this thing now. There's times I do, right? I mean, I don't want my employees like, dude, come on. But there's times where I'm like, listen, just, you know, you think you'll get it done in a week or so. Okay, cool. Get done. Just be safe. Like, if you get to a point where you think you need something different, call me and I'll get it to you.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

And a lot of times that, again, the beauty of the having the different tools. A lot of times a guy will be like, man, this Shears too heavy. We're doing it right now and taking some silos down in the shears. Heavy. I need a lighter shear. Okay, well, I have the option to bring a lighter sheer. So it's be like, well, that's only shear we got. Get it done. Dude, this isn't safe. I don't care. Get it done. You know, that's not the mentality. It's like, okay, well, hey, we did that one. We got it down. I need to buy a lighter shear. I need to buy a lighter tool. Let me go and start shopping for that because it'll make it easier, it'll make it safer. I'm constantly trying to be like, what can I do to do that? But, you know, our guys in the field, like, yeah, take five. Just take a step back, you know, Call me if you don't. If you don't feel comfortable, just call me. You have to do that in demolition. Maybe other, you know, site work, things like that might be different, but no,

[Aaron]

I. I think it's everything, especially in demolition, because there's just. So. You just don't know what you're getting into.

[Ricky Webb]

You don't know until you start pulling it apart. You do not know.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

I mean, you. There's templates and there's the same buildings types and stuff.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

You start tearing buildings down, you're like, I don't know. I don't even know how this thing was standing. Yeah. And how people were working in here every day. Goodness gracious.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And they're like. And I do have a lot of grace with demo contractors because it's like, when you see something I just saw, I posted it. It was a. It was a pretty good size, actually. Like 349 or 352. That fell through into a base.

[Ricky Webb]

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's like, I saw it.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

Like. But you. We kind of send that out to our guys and we don't talk shit.

[Aaron]

No, no. I would never talk shit.

[Ricky Webb]

Like, listen, dude, this happens.

[Aaron]

Hey, yeah. Don't have your machine.

[Ricky Webb]

Best of them.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Don't put your machine on something that you're not a hundred percent sure. And how quick it happened.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, that's how a lot of it is, how quick it can happen. You think you got everything under control, and it's like that. And that's what happened to me. My finger. I thought I had everything under control until I didn't. And so you have to explain that to them. Like, listen, man, it happens quick, you know, and so it. You know, we spoke last Night, too, about the type of work we do. And I grew up doing a lot of the government, military, government work and the safety there. You basically have your safety and then you have NAFAC safety, or we work at NASA. There's like a whole nother level of safety and a lot of times it can be super inefficient because you're constantly going through safety stuff. But sometimes that's the best training there is because it's boots on the ground training. The safety people there aren't going to stop you from doing what you're doing, but they're going to make sure you think about it and talk about it and talk it through and stuff. So I grew up with that level of safety in mind. And so sometimes when my guys go to these job sites and they run into the safety inspector and they're like, man, this guy's giving us a hard time. And I'm like, just soak it up. That guy's doing you a favor. Like, some of them can be in hindrance and some can be overkill, but most of the time he's calling you out in some stuff that probably should be done. So take advantage of it and try to, like, get on that guy's side, talk to him, and then eventually what's going to happen is he's going to trust what you're doing and you're doing it right, you know, but if, if you're doing something wrong, he should call you out.

[Aaron]

Yeah. I mean, very rarely have I seen it like, this guy just sucks. Like, they're, they're usually. No, they really do care.

[Ricky Webb]

They really do care. Yeah. And a good one cares. That's his job. His job is to make sure you go home safe.

[Aaron]

Yes. Right. And.

[Ricky Webb]

And so why would I argue with that person? Why would I? He's doing me a favor as well, you know, he's making sure my guys go home safe. And so for me, it's like. And hopefully. But it's a. Safety is a big thing, man. I mean, it's. We talk about it all the time and we try to implement it, but. But again, like I said, I try to implement a lot through not just the training, but the equipment that's. That's massive because you could talk about it all day long, but if you give the guy an excavator without a glass in the cab and the AC doesn't work and he's breathing dust all day long and, you know, he doesn't have a quick coupler or something like that, and he's driving pins, and he's taking a sledgehammer and pulling his back or. Yeah.

[Aaron]

Climbing up concrete with a bunch of rebar in it.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

You know, that's the most dangerous thing I do on demolition sites.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Is just the concrete with the rebar sticking out.

[Ricky Webb]

Well, the guy's got his. The job site's a mess. Like. Like. Like, for me, we always say, like, a clean job site's a safe job site.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

You know, like, we're huge about not scratching the equipment up. Like, our equipment's fairly clean. And so if there's a guy who has a. If a guy, like, gets a big gash on the side or smashes a door in, I'm like, dude, basically, you could have killed somebody because you're not paying attention. That could have been a building, a person. You're. Your situational around. This is. Or you're. It's bad. Like, you're not. You're not paying attention. So we try to, like, you know, we don't get as much damage. Now, our guys are really good about making sure what's around them. But, like, every three or four months, I'll bring them in, I'll paint them, touch them all up, get them all back, because that's my mint. I'll take picture. A lot of times I use social media, like my Instagram, as, like, a catalog of when I'd actually fix the machine. And then I'll go back and then three, if I get a new scratch or something on it. Well, three months ago, I went through and painted this machine top to bottom, did the counterweight and everything. So it happened on this job and this job. Then you can go to the guy, because sometimes you hear about it, sometimes you don't.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

And you go, hey, man, what happened? Oh, yeah, yeah, this happened. This happened. Well, do you know why it happened? Yeah, I was working too close. I grabbed a beam, whatever, did this and stuff. It's cool as long as you know how it happened. But the worst response is, I don't know. Yeah, the worst.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

I'm like, okay, well, now it wasn't my fault, Right?

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

Now you have to pull that person to the side and kind of go, listen, I'm not reprimanding you because you don't know. And you tore my machine to. It's more or less the fact that you, like, you have to be aware. Right. Like, you have to make sure you're paying attention. You know, people just randomly walk up on job sites all the time.

[Aaron]

All the time.

[Ricky Webb]

Superintendents things like that, like, they don't have a clue, man. You gotta, you know, we'll have a labor on site to kind of does like the exclusion zone to make sure there's nobody walking around. But yeah, man, people just, they won't try to get your attention, you know, like they should. Yeah, but so that's been like a big thing for us is making sure that like we're tracking that and using that as like a training, like a safety thing as well, you know, like, why do you keep your equipment so clean? Why do you paint it? Well, they're just going to scratch it up again. What does it matter? It's like, it's kind of like it's for them to realize that they scratched it. Like, oh, I did get too close to that building.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

It doesn't make you aware.

[Aaron]

And. And once there's like a bunch of scratches on it, then it's just another one.

[Ricky Webb]

It doesn't matter. Yeah, you get lost, dude. It's like there's like, that wasn't me. That wasn't me.

[Aaron]

It wasn't me.

[Ricky Webb]

It wasn't me. And you can't keep up with it.

[Aaron]

No.

[Ricky Webb]

You know, then you start blaming somebody for something that they didn't do, which is even more of an issue because then your guy gets completely frustrated with you because you think you know more than he does. So for me, it's just like, okay, well, let's come in and paint it. And then that way when it happens again, we don't argue. There is no. There is no. It was him. He said, she said, you just sure it was you.

[Aaron]

And if. And then there's other effects as well. Like they're gonna take better care of the machine.

[Ricky Webb]

They've gotten so good at it.

[Aaron]

Dude, you're gonna look better on the site. Yeah, there's a bunch of other effects.

[Ricky Webb]

They like, they start holding themselves accountable, like big time. You know, they'll get in the machine, like, man, this thing is scratched up. And then they'll find out who the guy was. And then they might meet that guy and be like, hey, man, you know, like, listen, like, you know, you got to take care of this stuff. Like, he buys us nice stuff and we take care of it. Like, I want to have this machine. This thing was great when I got it and you got a hold of it and tore it all to hell. So they, they hold themselves accountable and stuff like that. We try to clean the cabs and stuff. I mean, you're in and out of the machine a lot you know, obviously you want to have, like, the spotless cab, but my dad was really big on that, was huge about keeping the equipment clean. And he's like, it'll eat you alive and cost if you don't. You know, like, you're every. I mean, you eat your profit up and replacing panels and stuff. A lot of people don't replace panels or doors. No, they just bang them up. They're like, oh, well, I'm gonna do it again. I'm not gonna drop $4,000 in another door.

[Aaron]

And then you go to their site, you're like, what are these guys doing?

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, yeah, we bang a door up. I'm like, what are new doors?

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

And then I tell the guy, like, listen, you get one door. You get one door a year, you know, you get one shield windshield a year. Like, let's take it easy, you know? Yeah. And it's just. It's. I mean, they're good now. I mean, the guys are really good now. When they damage something, it's. It's like it. It was missing, like, okay, I understand. You were in a tight spot. It was one of those uncontrolled things. Like, I mean, I'll get on a piece of equipment myself now and I'll scratch some stuff up, too, you know, so, like, I don't. I don't act like I don't tear stuff up. I made. I've done some of the worst damage we got on the machines and stuff, but that's how I learned.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

You know, every lesson I learned was $10,000.

[Aaron]

But that. But that's also my point. To people in the previous generation, it's like, you learned banging up.

[Ricky Webb]

You did.

[Aaron]

You can't do that now with gcs, with insurance requirements, with the safety app like that. That doesn't work in some places. It still does, but, like, that doesn't math.

[Ricky Webb]

You can't make any mistake. It's like. And that's a big problem, I think, with the industry right now is there's a difference between making a mistake and making a mistake over and over and

[Aaron]

over and over again.

[Ricky Webb]

Okay, now that's just negligence, you know, but, like, you know, a safety guy will kick your guy off because he damages one thing. And you're like, this dude is good all the time. He made a mistake, and now you're going to kick him off the job. And you want me to bring another guy on to run this job? He hasn't. He doesn't know anything about the job. He's not aware at all of like, what's going on? I have to bring him up to speed. And then you don't want him to make a mistake. Like, come on.

[Aaron]

And you've never made a mistake.

[Ricky Webb]

Like, statistically speaking, you're putting me in a bad spot. Right. Like, it's, it's probably going to happen. It's just like, what level was it? You know, like, how bad was it or something? Was it pure negligence or, you know, were they really paying attention? It was kind of just like an oopsie, you know, I mean, and mistakes are like, like you said, it's the best way to learn. The best way to learn it is.

[Aaron]

But we're now in the sterile environment, so we have to figure out how to work through this, like, thing. And it changed really quickly. I think it did. It kind of snuck up on everybody.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And so everybody's still trying to apply that same old model that they came up in to this new world, but it doesn't math. And then even worse is it's people like me. I didn't grow up on a farm.

[Ricky Webb]

No.

[Aaron]

My dad didn't have a demo company.

[Ricky Webb]

Right.

[Aaron]

My dad was a lawyer.

[Ricky Webb]

Right.

[Aaron]

I didn't know how to do anything. I didn't know how to use a ratchet strap.

[Ricky Webb]

Right.

[Aaron]

Like. Yeah. And I felt like an idiot when I tried to use a ratchet strap for the first time. Because they are. You don't know how to use a

[Ricky Webb]

painful thing to watch someone on a binder. Chain binder. Trying to do it. Yeah.

[Aaron]

Or a chain binder.

[Ricky Webb]

Something really hard thing to just stand back and kind of go, okay, let's watch this.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah, But. But if you don't know, they are a kind of a puzzle.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, yeah, they are. Yeah. I mean, I'll give you credit on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyway. But the biggest problem is, like, you know, the guys will talk shit about them not knowing how to do it, rather than saying, like, listen, man, this is how you do it. Real quick. Sure, okay, let's do them together and stuff. And so, like, you're constantly trying to, you know. You know, you're constantly trying to teach. Teach that. And you got to have a couple guys within your organization that are willing to do that. And that goes a long way.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

You know, but. Yeah, I mean, you know, a lot of these guys coming in, these green guys and stuff that, that work for us and gals, you know, they've. They've, They've only. They're coming out of high school, you know, they've had. They Were they worked at a fast food shop. Yeah.

[Aaron]

And they grew up in suburbia.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

You know, in a neighborhood.

[Ricky Webb]

They worked at Food line. That's our grocery store, you know, with the Food Line or something. And it's kind of like as long as they want to come in at a reasonable rate and say hey, I want to try it. And some get in and love it. But the learning curve is huge, you know, and so. And you can watch videos on how to do a chain binder on YouTube.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

But when you go out there to go do that, every two video is not going to help at all. You got to put your hands on it.

[Aaron]

And yeah, you do have to, you know. Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

So that's the big thing. It's kind of like how the safety and all that falls through. Like the best experience is getting your, you're getting out there and getting your ass whooped.

[Aaron]

Or you can use Bluetooth finders.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, I've seen those.

[Aaron]

I saw a lot of those in India.

[Ricky Webb]

Oh, I'm sure you did.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah. I mean gosh, man, the dot around where we're at, they are, they're like hawks, man. I bet mess around. I bet some of our biggest, you know, we've, we've made a couple mistakes hauling some stuff in the past and we do not do that now because it can be very costly, you know, but the, the, the roads change so much. The closures change so much because they're doing so much road construction or where we're at that you're constantly having to put a permit. And we permit like everything now and we over permit people. It's. Social media is a funny thing. People ask, oh, you need two escorts for that 200 size excavator. And it's like, dude, we had to drive an hour in the last five minutes. The city made us have escorts. So we just use escorts the whole time.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Ricky Webb]

You know, like it's just easier.

[Aaron]

Eliminate the question.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, look at that spreadsheet. Doesn't make any sense for those guys to do that. But we're gonna do it. Better safe than sorry. Risk aversion as much as possible.

[Aaron]

Well, and also people online, the dumb ones, which is a lot of them online that comment, they're like, well we don't have to do that here. It's like, yeah, you don't have to do that here. But that's.

[Ricky Webb]

You're not here, you're not here. Right?

[Aaron]

That's. And it's like you're not just doing it to do it. You're not just like, I just feel like running escorts with everything because we feel cool, right? You know, like, there's always a reason for it. There's always a motivation for it. There's, there's. There's probably a financial incentive for it somewhere.

[Ricky Webb]

Somewhere along the line or we made one mistake and it happened and we were like, we'll never do that again. It was a policy we put in place. And it's not a dumb policy that we put in place. It doesn't hurt. The guy gets there, he needs help undoing the chains and all that stuff anyways. And I can tell you right now, the, you know, trying to merge a 85 foot lowboy with a 135, 000 pounds onto the interstate by itself off of a like, you know, a merge lane is almost impossible.

[Aaron]

Nobody lets go breaking for you. They do not.

[Ricky Webb]

And you know, and a lot of times, no. Hell no, man. And so, you know, a lot of times you're just doing it just to give your driver a break and provide like some kind of environment for him to where he's not completely stressed out. You know, he appreciates it because that, that tail truck just comes over, blocks the lane and then he can do what he's got to do and he doesn't have to stress about it. Sure. We went with automatics in our low boys, so that way the guy doesn't have to change the gears because that takes a whole nother. Some guys, you know, I love, you know, I love. I wanna, yeah, I want to get in there and go through all the gears and it's like, preach. Yeah. And I'm just like, yeah. And I'm like, well, yeah. But then you're not paying attention to the road either, you know, or you're taking one more distraction. It's one more thing. Let me just eliminate that. So I buy them with automatics now so they don't have to do that. And you know, they all eventually love it. In time there's preferences. But I look at it like, okay, well that's one less thing that you have to pay attention to. Sure. You know, now you can look in that mirror and merge lanes. But. Yeah.

[Aaron]

Well, one of these days we'll have to get out there once you guys are. You guys are wrecking something. Yeah, we can come see. Yeah, that'd be. It'd be a lot of fun.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, we got, we got some big stuff coming up. Really big stuff coming up. Good. So yeah, we got plenty of work and we're very fortunate. But yeah, I like to get you guys out there and I'd love that.

[Aaron]

Yeah, it's not even that far. I actually, I like that area because it's so fascinating. Just the military presence. Like people don't know this. It's the biggest military base in the world.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Is that area.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And it is huge.

[Ricky Webb]

Well, now it's the deepest port on the east coast too. They just dredged the port of Portsmouth, so. Yep. So now it's the deepest point. Now it's got. And that's where the subsea cables land. The subsea cables from, you know, Europe and other places and stuff land there. So then the data centers are starting to come in. All the logistical warehouses and stuff are getting big and stuff like that, so. And it's not bad because you're right by the beach too, so.

[Aaron]

Well, I love, I love going there over summer too. For crab.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah. Oh, man.

[Aaron]

Oh, yeah. Every time I get to go over there. Yeah. Get like 20 crab, plop them on piece of butcher paper on the table and just go to work. That is one of my favorite meals, period.

[Ricky Webb]

It's hard to beat. We do it a lot. Crab cakes. Oh, crab cakes. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Yeah.

[Aaron]

But the crab cakes are legitimate. It's legitimately crab. It's not a bunch of bullshit.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a good place to be. I love it there and my family loves it there and I would never go anywhere else, to be honest. I love to travel and everything, but it's a good place to be. And there's a lot of. If you're diversified enough like we are, you can stay really busy there, which is good. Yeah. But that's the big thing is just trying to, you know, keep diversified and keep on your toes. And I'm, I'm a sucker for. I don't say no. I'm really bad at saying saying no to a job.

[Aaron]

I think that's, I think that keeps people in business in a lot of ways. You have to say no. But then I think that's just. It is like one of the greatest double edged swords there is.

[Ricky Webb]

There's sometimes that I wish we could just take the cake work, but sometimes we don't. And that's why we are in business because we don't. We do the hard work. And there's sometimes I probably should say no because my staff is completely, you know, booked up and things. But I'm just, I just like. Well, I'm just afraid that the workflow is going to stop and that's my job is to make sure it doesn't stop. Right? Like, so that's the best thing I can do is have a backlog. And for me, it was like, if. And a lot of times I'm like, look, if we don't do it, somebody else is going to do it, so we might as well be the ones that do it, you know?

[Aaron]

Well, I appreciate you coming out.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah, man, it was good.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love this. I didn't. Honestly. Yeah. I hadn't spent nearly any time with you before this.

[Ricky Webb]

No, I know we've talked some, but.

[Aaron]

Yeah, I feel like I saw you. I saw you.

[Ricky Webb]

Yeah. I think it was like NDA, one of the NDAs or something. Real quick.

[Aaron]

Yeah, real real. But that was years ago.

[Ricky Webb]

I know.

[Aaron]

Years ago.

[Ricky Webb]

I appreciate the opportunity. Yeah, thanks.

[Aaron]

Yeah, no, really appreciate you coming.

[Ricky Webb]

Good conversation.

[Aaron]

And that's podcast.

[Ricky Webb]

All right, awesome.