Machines That Make America w/ Jamie Roush – DT 340

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Machines That Make America w/ Jamie Roush – DT 340"

Introduction In episode DT 340 of Dirt Talk hosted by BuildWitt, Aaron engages in a comprehensive conversation with industry veteran Jamie Roush. The discussion delves deep into the intricacies of the American manufacturing landscape, focusing on infrastructure needs, the challenges of manufacturing in the United States, and innovative solutions in bridge inspection equipment. Released on May 22, 2025, this episode offers valuable insights for professionals in the dirt world and beyond.

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Workforce Dynamics and Leadership in Manufacturing

The episode opens with Aaron sharing a story about a friend who took over an existing business and made the tough decision to part ways with a valuable employee who realized he wasn't ready to advance further in his career. This anecdote sets the stage for a broader discussion on leadership and team dynamics.

Jamie emphasizes the importance of self-aware leadership, stating,

“I would much rather have that as a leader because you have that level of communication as opposed to guessing, like, is it a performance issue, is it a desire? Like, what is it?” (01:15).

They discuss the delicate balance between prioritizing the business and valuing the team. Aaron reflects on his own struggles with this balance, advocating for the necessity of building a sustainable business foundation:

“You have to have like...we could have the best team the best culture. Everybody is so happy, they're so motivated. But if I go, hey, we just can't pay you, but would you mind just hanging out? Who's going to be hanging out? Nobody. Everybody's gone.” (02:08).

Jamie relates this philosophy to personal relationships, highlighting the necessity of a strong foundational partnership:

“The best engineer was once a physicist.” (15:28), pointing out that foundational skills are crucial for long-term success.

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Career Journeys and the Value of Education

Jamie shares his unconventional career path, transitioning from a physics degree to sales, and eventually climbing the ranks at Swagelok and Dynapac. He recounts an interview experience that underscores the mismatch often seen between educational backgrounds and career expectations:

“You're not what I expected... glasses with the tape and the pocket protector.” (12:15).

Aaron reflects on his own challenging experiences with engineering education, emphasizing the importance of problem-solving over rote memorization:

“You can't memorize your way through engineering.” (16:28).

They both agree on the unparalleled value of engineering degrees in fostering problem-solving skills essential for business success.

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Operational Insights and Lessons Learned

Jamie recounts his early leadership experiences at Swagelok, particularly his role as a 5S facilitator. He candidly discusses his initial failure and the subsequent realization that empowering teams leads to better ownership and outcomes:

“One of the biggest lessons of my entire career is, you know, you come in from a change perspective and... you just have to get out of their way to let it happen.” (22:23).

Aaron adds his perspective on the positive potential of assuming a more trustful and open view of team capabilities:

“People are actually quite smart and quite clever and quite intuitive.” (23:16).

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Manufacturing in America: Challenges and Opportunities

A significant portion of the episode focuses on Jamie’s current venture with Anderson Ventures, where he leads the development of advanced bridge inspection equipment. He draws parallels between his previous experience at Dynapac and his current role, emphasizing the importance of specialization and strategic dealer partnerships:

“With Dynapack, we literally just became Dynapack. So we literally just became compaction and paving.” (33:58).

Jamie narrates a memorable interaction at the National Mall construction site, highlighting the lack of brand awareness and the need for specialization:

“She goes, how come I've never heard of you?... I've heard of those guys.” (35:35).

Aaron praises the nimbleness of smaller companies like Anderson Ventures in maintaining close connections with customers and the ground-level operations:

“The bigger you get, the harder it is because you have all these other things that pull you away from it.” (45:38).

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Innovations in Bridge Inspection and Infrastructure Needs

The conversation shifts to the specifics of bridge inspection equipment developed by Anderson Ventures. Jamie details the technological advancements that allow for rapid deployment and increased efficiency:

“It deploys in 10 minutes... platform can fit five people.” (53:54).

Aaron underscores the critical nature of infrastructure maintenance, citing alarming statistics about bridge conditions in the United States:

“Over 600,000 bridges. Average age is 47 years old.” (52:17).

They discuss the multifaceted challenges of bridge maintenance, including safety, time sensitivity, and the impact of prolonged closures on traffic and local economies.

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Economic Perspectives: Tariffs and Manufacturing Costs

Aaron and Jamie delve into the complexities of manufacturing in the U.S., particularly the impact of tariffs on production costs. Jamie explains the intricate process of determining tariff applicability on various components and the subsequent financial implications:

“If you're manufactured in Germany or manufactured in Sweden... it's still becoming very interesting to manage, at a margin level.” (80:15).

Aaron shares his concerns about the broader economic implications of tariffs, including consumer behavior and corporate pricing strategies:

“If I work hard, I can achieve anything. It's like, bullshit.” (14:24).

They debate the sustainability of global trade models, the potential for increased domestic manufacturing, and the long-term benefits of producing American-made products despite higher costs.

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Future Outlook and Optimism for American Manufacturing

Despite the challenges, both Aaron and Jamie express optimism about the future of American manufacturing. Jamie highlights the strategic positioning of Anderson Ventures in the bridge inspection market, leveraging government funds and building strong dealer relationships:

“We're all in on it. We're leaning in on this.” (78:33).

Aaron admires the dedication of leaders who remain connected to ground-level operations, which he believes is crucial for success:

“You have to make it here, it's still Good.” (88:27).

They conclude with a forward-looking perspective, emphasizing the importance of infrastructure in sustaining economic growth and the pivotal role manufacturers like Anderson Ventures play in this ecosystem.

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Conclusion

Episode DT 340 of Dirt Talk offers a rich exploration of the American manufacturing sector, highlighting the interplay between leadership, workforce dynamics, technological innovation, and economic challenges. Through the experiences and insights of Jamie Roush, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the current landscape and the opportunities that lie ahead for those committed to building and sustaining essential infrastructure.

Notable Quotes:

• Aaron: “You can't memorize your way through engineering.” (16:28)
• Jamie: “I would much rather have that as a leader because you have that level of communication as opposed to guessing, like, is it a performance issue, is it a desire? Like, what is it?” (01:15)
• Jamie: “One of the biggest lessons of my entire career is... you just have to get out of their way to let it happen.” (22:23)
• Jamie: “It deploys in 10 minutes... platform can fit five people.” (53:54)
• Aaron: “Over 600,000 bridges. Average age is 47 years old.” (52:17)

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Timestamp Guide:

• 01:15: Leadership and employee communication
• 02:08: Business vs. team prioritization
• 12:15: Interview expectations and career transitions
• 14:24: Value of engineering education
• 15:28: Importance of physics in engineering
• 16:28: Problem-solving in engineering education
• 22:23: Lessons from leadership roles
• 23:16: Trusting team intelligence
• 33:58: Specialization in manufacturing
• 35:35: Brand awareness in construction
• 45:38: Nimbleness of smaller companies
• 52:17: Bridge infrastructure statistics
• 53:54: Bridge inspection equipment
• 78:33: Commitment to domestic manufacturing
• 80:15: Tariff impact on manufacturing
• 88:27: Importance of manufacturing sustainability

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This episode serves as an essential listen for professionals interested in the crossroads of manufacturing, infrastructure, and economic policy, providing actionable insights and fostering a deeper appreciation for the machines that build America.

Transcript

[Aaron]

I was talking with somebody else, a friend of mine who took over an existing business and has, I mean, he's now maybe a year or two into it, so a little ways in, but that was part of it was he came into the business. There's some people that do want to do better and do want to work harder, but there's a lot of people that don't. They just want to keep doing their thing. And he said he had one. He came to him and said, hey, I just, I don't really want to do this. I'm going to go, I'm going to leave. He was a, you know, great, great individual and delivered, but just didn't want to go to that next level. Said, I'm going to leave, I'm going to a different company because frankly I, you know, I'm later in my career. I don't really want to do this. And it's like, I feel like that's, I respect that a lot too.

[Jamie]

That's right.

[Aaron]

It's those people that are that self aware to be like, you know, I, I know what I want. This isn't it.

[Jamie]

And I'm not in for it. I appreciate what's happening, you know.

[Aaron]

Yeah, I understand what's going on here. I just don't want to be a part of it. And it's like that, that makes perfect sense. Yeah, perfect sense.

[Jamie]

I would much rather have that as a leader because you have that level of communication as opposed to guessing, like, is it a performance issue, is it a desire? Like, what is it? Right. And so then you're like trying to coach it and.

[Aaron]

Yeah, well, and then sometimes you have to make the decision for them a lot of times. Often. Yeah, you just, it gets to a point where, hey, this just. We can't keep doing this anymore because you. And that goes back to the whole team dynamic is like your response, your loyalty is to the team and to the business. Cause that like the business, it has to be number one. Because without the business, no people, I struggle.

[Jamie]

You don't need the team.

[Aaron]

Yeah, I struggle a little bit with like, you know, our people are number one. We're all family or safety first, this and that. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. That's not actually what's happening here. The priority is building a business that delivers for its customers, for, for its people, for its community, et cetera. You have to have like. Because we didn't have our fundamentals squared away for a long time. I really appreciate that now because we could have the best team the best culture. Everybody is so happy, they're so motivated. But if I go, hey, we just can't pay you, but would you mind just hanging out? Who's going to be hanging out? Nobody. Everybody's gone. All the stuff goes away. Everything else dissolves. If I can't meet that one obligation, that is I need to pay you every week, every other week. So you have to. For me, I've had to. You have to put that first. It's also. I feel like I've seen this with families, too. It's been. I'm not married, I don't have children, so what do I know? But I feel like the most successful people I've seen in relationships have always said you have to prioritize the relationship, not the children and family. If you don't have that partnership at the top, everything else starts to erode. Everything else dissolves if you don't have that squared away, first and foremost.

[Jamie]

Yeah, I could see that. I mean, in my case, I guess we don't really talk about or think about that often. It's sort of a natural progression because Alison's my best friend, so it has been that way. She's a college sweetheart. We met my sophomore year, her freshman year. And so we've been best friends ever since. So that. That's there. It just is there for us.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

Right. And so it hasn't been your. You said yesterday your parents are divorced, so are mine. I think there's so many people who have that and deal with that. And we spent a lot of time making sure that we were right for each other to build that. What you're talk. Talking about that foundational relationship.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

And so you're right. It is a lot like family. Right. It is a lot like family in that you have to take that, you know, that foundational piece to have and to. Everybody can rally around, and then you build all the other components right on it. Right. That's sort of your foundational building block. And the rest of it goes with it.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It. I just think some things get conflated with corporate speak and this and that. This is really, you know, it's just. And I think Mike Rowe pointed this one out perfectly. It's like, safety can't be first, because if safety was first, there would be no business. We wouldn't be building something. Like, why would we be risking everybody here? Yeah. If it really was the absolute priority.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

The business would not exist. And it's like.

[Jamie]

But as a manufacturer of equipment is very important.

[Aaron]

No, no, it's, it's very important. But it's like. But again, right, if there isn't, if the business doesn't work, the people aren't there.

[Jamie]

But Aaron, I think it's a, it's a mindset though, right? It's a. You need to have that as a mindset for the people to go out. Right? I mean, you can have, and we're going through this, you can have all the policies in the world that you want, but if they don't wear safety glasses, if they don't wear steel toed shoes, if they don't follow protocol, if they don't stay between the lines when they're supposed to, you know, if you're not always kind of first of mind of that kind of thing, then it slips. So that's when you, you know, so I get. It's like anything else when you're trying change a pattern, right. Oftentimes, you know, you take the pendulum that's over here and in order to end up here, you have to swing it to here for a while and then it kind of, you know, sets back out. So. So I get the safety first and I think it's just really sort of a mindset shift and then you kind of settle into where is safety really. Yeah, maybe it's not so first, but it's still very important.

[Aaron]

No, I, Yeah, I understand, I understand. How have you always been in equipment? Did you have other ventures early on?

[Jamie]

Yeah, sort of. Yeah. So I actually I started with a company called Great Lakes Power Products. We sold like marine transmissions and things like that. I was a sale outside sales guy.

[Aaron]

So.

[Jamie]

Yeah, aftermarket sort of, you know, but it was still, you know, accessories related to equipment.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jamie]

So I've, you know, that was my first kind of four. I had Michigan, the up, Northern Indiana, Northwest Ohio.

[Aaron]

Where did you, where did you go to school?

[Jamie]

I went to school at Muskingum College, actually now Musking University, about an hour east of Columbus.

[Aaron]

Okay. All right. So you were from that region?

[Jamie]

Yeah, yeah. So born and raised in Columbus. Went to college at Muskingum and then graduated from there. Start. I actually started there. I didn't know what I wanted to be in school. I was a great student. I don't know. Have we started? Yeah, I don't know. I was a great student. I had nhs. Didn't have a particularly great, you know, time in any school, but great good grades. NHS all four years or three years or whatever it is, and then went to Muskingham when I, when I left High school. The question was, what did you want to do? And so I remember my. My math professor, Dr. Mazzarelli, said, hey, you should go to Muskim. What's that? He said, here's a fee waiver. Great, I'll apply.

[Aaron]

Fee waiver.

[Jamie]

That's how I got in a fee waiver. It's funny how things work sometimes. But I was going to go to Case, right? So I was going to go to a 3, the binetic grade binary program at 3 2. So you'd get a degree in physics and a degree in engineering from Case. Really went to Case for. It was my junior year. Went to Case.

[Aaron]

And that's pretty heavy duty. Engineering and physics. That's. That's quite.

[Jamie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And physics was a pretty small department at Muskingum, I think I graduated with four kids in physics.

[Aaron]

So you. You went through that program?

[Jamie]

I actually got the physics degree. I did not do the binary program. So I stayed for four years and got a physics degree.

[Aaron]

You got a physics degree?

[Jamie]

Yes.

[Aaron]

No shit.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And then went into sales.

[Jamie]

Sure. Yes. Then I went. Then I went. Then I went to Cleveland State and started grad school for mechanical engineering.

[Aaron]

Really?

[Jamie]

Yeah. So.

[Aaron]

But yes, sales is the opposite career of anybody graduating from physics and mechanical engineers, isn't it? So could not be more opposite.

[Jamie]

I know, I know. People say that all the time. So my first. So after the sales job, though, that reminds me. So I went to interview with a company. They were looking for a technical service engineer. So I went to interview with a company called Swagelok in Northeast Ohio. And so I'm sitting.

[Aaron]

Swagel.

[Jamie]

Yeah, Swagelok. They make valves, right. So like ball valves. I actually was in the high purity gas department.

[Aaron]

I feel like I know the guy that owns the company now.

[Jamie]

Well, that would have been it. Mr. You. What was Mr. F.J. callahan. Now it is boy.

[Aaron]

Who owns it. Who. Who runs it. It's not John Lennon, is it?

[Jamie]

Oh, yeah, that's right.

[Aaron]

Okay. It's John Lennon.

[Jamie]

Yeah. Mr. Lennon is part. He used to be part owner.

[Aaron]

Okay. Yes, yes.

[Jamie]

And his son is in Arizona, so. Did you know John Lennon in Arizona?

[Aaron]

I went to school with the sun.

[Jamie]

No way.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

So you knew John. See, I told you. The more we talk. So I actually almost. So John also took over Albuquerque.

[Aaron]

Okay.

[Jamie]

He had our Albuquerque. I actually almost went to work for John and ran the Albuquerque location when I was like 26.

[Aaron]

Wow.

[Jamie]

Yeah. No, I. Yeah, yeah, you're right, Mr. Lennon.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And I only. Yeah, I. He actually has this. So I. My office, quote, unquote, with this restaurant called the Henry in Arizona. When I was there originally, okay, I didn't have an office. I just wanted to get out of my apartment. It was like this restaurant, coffee shop. They had this table, and he would come in there every once in a while. I recognized him because I went to school with his son Riggs, for nine years when kindergarten, eighth grade. I knew. I knew him very well. And I was like, fuck, I know this guy. And so I started talking to him, and I remember him giving me his business card with that. That's the only reason I know that company, because it was on his business card. And I was very. I was really paying attention to what he was doing because I was starting out in business, young business owner. And he would drive in with this GT3 RS Porsche with shark Works exhaust. So you could hear it coming from, I mean, 15 blocks away. This thing would just roar. And he told me all about it. And he, the guy, he knows, the guy that owns Shark Works or whatever, and gave him the exhaust if he put Shark Works on his license plate. So his license plate is shark works GT3RS. Unbelievable car. I'm just sitting there, you know, 23, 24, just drooling, drool. I mean, I would. Every time he would leave, I would walk outside to. Then just listen to this car tear off. It's just like, oh, man. Anyway, totally random sidebar.

[Jamie]

Yeah, great. Yeah, yeah. John and I got along because at that time, I actually club race BMWs.

[Aaron]

Oh, okay.

[Jamie]

Yeah. So we were like peas in a pot.

[Aaron]

Oh, wow. Yeah.

[Jamie]

Yeah. So, yeah. So I, at that time. So when he offered me that, I was actually the, the, the leader, I guess. What the hell was my title at the time? Technical service manager for the technical service department. But anyway, back to the physics piece. So I, I, I'm sitting in the, in the conference room waiting for the, for the guys to come in and interview me. And I'm sitting there not looking a whole lot different than I am today. But anyway, so I'm sitting there, and this door opens, and this guy peeks his head in, and he closes his door, and le. That was weird. And Sidney comes back in and he goes, jamie? And I'm like, yes, sir. And he goes, hi, I'm Tony. Like, hey, Tony, how are you? And he goes, do I have it right? You have a physics degree? And I'm like, yes, sir. He goes, in grad school at Cleveland State. I said, yes, sir. And he goes, you're not what I expected. And I go, what does that mean? He goes, well, I kind of expected that. Glasses with the tape and the pocket protector. Yeah, that's what you usually get when you hear someone says, oh, he has a physics degree.

[Aaron]

Well, there's a fixed picture of who graduates with the. For good reason, because it's pretty damn accurate. Like that was.

[Jamie]

I told you yesterday, we were nerds together. That's what I meant.

[Aaron]

Physics was nearly the demise of my engineering career. I could not. I. I didn't pass physics the first time, so I had to retake Physics one. And I was getting a civil engineering degree. It was construction engineering, but mostly it's civil with, like, a few construction classes sprinkled in, which is essentially all physics. That's all civil engineering is, is physics. You're just trying to resist gravity, essentially, is what you're doing. And so I get into engineering. Not very good at math, not knowing there was a lot of math, because I'd never met another engineer. I'd never met anybody with an engineering degree. And I get into it. I take physics. I get my ass kicked. I got like a 60 in the class, and it was just demoralizing. Then I go back, I pass the first physics class with a 70.0, which was the minimum I needed to. To grad to pass and go to the next one. And then I go to physics too. And that's when you start to get into magnets and electricity and all the witchcraft of phys. And I passed that one with a 70.0 first try. And then I got into circuits, which is now like the advanced version of physics 2 at my. @ my university. And I got. I'd never worked harder in my life. This is why I don't subscribe to the people that say if you work, you know, if you work hard, you can achieve anything. It's like, bullshit. Because I worked so hard in circuits to pass, I got a D. But fortunately, because I was in the civil program, that wasn't on, like, my. My. I needed to take it, but it wasn't like a core class, so a D was passing. So I said, I'll take the D. I'm going to the next semester. And that was my. That was my physics career.

[Jamie]

Love it.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

Love it. Yeah. I joke all the time. I shouldn't even say this, but I would much rather. In fact, if I go to dinner with Allison, I'll always give her the bill to calculate the tip, because I hate calculating the tip. I hate that kind of math. That kind of math bothers me. I Can see a P and L clearly and identify that's a problem or that's a problem like in a second. But to figure out the percentage on a tip that I want to give. I would rather do a differential equation. It's crazy.

[Aaron]

I think though, I think engineering is one of the most valuable undergraduate degrees, if not the most valuable undergraduate degree regardless of your discipline. Because teaches you problem solving at a totally different level. It makes you solve really hard problems for a long.

[Jamie]

I will upset a lot of people by saying something that my, my physics professor told me one time. The best engineer was once a physicist. Right?

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

And because you actually have to derive the equation that you got to. To solve whatever the problem is.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Jamie]

Right. But the best engineer. So I. So Vijay, I used to tease him all the time. The best engineer was once a physicist.

[Aaron]

No, but it's, it's like you would think none of it translates to what you're doing and your career, but I think it translates better than a business degree.

[Jamie]

But what you said is right. I mean, so I have two kids. One finished college, one going through college. And that has been the mindset for me was okay. There are certain disciplines that teach you better problem solving skills. But most of the technical ones, even the business side teach you the right amount of problem solving skills that you need to have at a sort of a base level, which is what you need to be successful at any business. Right. Is that sort of base level problem solving? Right. And then how, how you can effectively utilize that and apply that on a day to day basis is what starts to separate people.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Because I feel like the difference between when I got into engineering and the rest of school is you can't memorize your way through engineering.

[Jamie]

That's right.

[Aaron]

It doesn't work because it's so complicated. So it was like until that point I'd memorized my way through school, which you don't really learn a lot memorizing. You just put into your head what you need. Take the test.

[Jamie]

If you don't know basic algebra, you can't move to calculus. If you don't know calculus, you can't move to trip. I mean it's all of that builds on each other.

[Aaron]

Absolutely. Right. Yeah. And then they take numbers away from you. And you're not even working with numbers for the most part. You'll have pages of just like. I'll look at my old stuff.

[Jamie]

Partial X, partial Y.

[Aaron]

Hell, is this. Yeah. The whole Greek Alphabet.

[Jamie]

Yes.

[Aaron]

Scribbled out. It makes me look like a genius. And then you plug in the numbers at the end, you get it wrong. It's like it's not within your tolerances. So you're like, shit. So now you're going back through like, where did I screw up one of these Greek letters?

[Jamie]

Which page?

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

When you went to school, did you actually have to write it down on paper or is it some Mathematica?

[Aaron]

You know, it was a lot of still writing on paper. I like paper. I have a notebook, I carry it with me. I like paper. I read paper books. I'm analog.

[Jamie]

All right. Okay.

[Aaron]

I mean, I still do a lot on my phone.

[Jamie]

But that's a, that's a, you know, because just as I was graduating, we had just, you know, our, our computer lab. Right. We had one computer with Mathematica on it. So you could plug in these equations and it would spit out the answer. Yeah, right. That was it. We had one. Now you can do it on your phone.

[Aaron]

Sure, yeah.

[Jamie]

You know.

[Aaron]

Yeah. I mean, the graphing calculators now are like straight up computers that can take you this the moon just about.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

So you get into sales.

[Jamie]

Yeah. You're selling marine stuff and marine transmissions. It was very cool. Like, I would go on Lake Michigan. I had, I would accompany the service guys for, you know, we sold a marine transmission. It needed service. So we'd go out to this 60 foot ocean yacht or, you know, and he would. We're tied off and he's, you know, testing it out and seeing how it goes and stuff. But got to be on very cool vessels doing that kind of stuff for a while. And then got called by a recruiter to go to the, to the Swagelok position and had the interview that I was talking about earlier. And then sort of started my career at Swagelok in various leadership positions. So I started as a technical service engineer, then went out to the shop floor, ran second shift. I'll never forget when I started doing second shift because we had, we had identified from a leadership perspective that it was good. You know, I would go in the program and, you know, kind of go through a series of leadership positions to grow within the company. And so they said, we want to put you in production. I said, great. They said, you have to wait a little bit if you want first shift, because there's a line of people who want to get in first shift.

[Aaron]

First shifts during the day, second shifts.

[Jamie]

At night, evening, and then the third shift piece is like from midnight to seven or something.

[Aaron]

So it'd be three shift. Wow.

[Jamie]

So I was like, they said, which One do you want? And I said, I want second shift. What? Like, no one takes second shift. I said, yeah, but I want second shift is why do you want second shift? And I said, because I feel like it's. It will demonstrate my leadership capabilities. And they're like, yeah, but there's no one here to guide you and lead you. Exactly.

[Aaron]

Yeah, that's the point.

[Jamie]

That's right. And so I wanted to demonstrate that. And so I had. I had a second shift group of man. I want to say it was probably 100 people assembling valves at the old Whitey facility. And it was quite an experience for me as a young kid, you know, going into second shift and not having any production experience otherwise. But it was fun. I mean, I had. I had a great group of people. I had everything from warehouse to assembly. And, you know, you. You. There's all that shift handoff stuff to deal with between the shifts that you don't think about all the time. Right. Because each, you know, each of the shifts has a handoff meeting. Right. And you're checking the KPIs and red, yellow, green. So anyway, so they came to me at one point and they said, hey, we want to assign you as a 5S facilitator. Are you interested? I'm like, I'd love to do that. So I became the 5s facilitator for all night shift events.

[Aaron]

And 5s is sort shine set in.

[Jamie]

Order, standardize and sustain for lean.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

And so we would go to a certain area that wasn't performing as well as we wanted it to, and we would bring that team in. So we'd bring all three shifts in, and you'd go through and highlight the. Here's how it works and here's what we normally do, and then sit back and watch them do it.

[Aaron]

Yeah, it's like manufacturing philosophy.

[Jamie]

Yeah, that's right.

[Aaron]

I mean, that's kind of 101. Yeah. Lean is like. Yeah, the. The 101. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[Jamie]

Yeah. And so the first one ever, I was a hotshot. Hotshot. I knew exactly what we needed to do. Came in guns blazing, taught everybody how to be the best 5s person in the world, and then went out and told them, here's what you should do, and here's what you should do, and here's what you should do. And it was. Generally speaking, it was probably right. Sure was terrible failure. One of the greatest lessons I've ever learned in my entire career. Terrible failure, because then it was Jamie's edict. Right. And so I Came out and you know, like, man, why are these metrics all red all the time? And so we redid it and I stepped back and watched them and we changed a little bit of stuff. Right. But next thing you know, they own it. Probably one of the biggest lessons of my entire career is, is, you know, you come in from a change perspective and generally speaking, the people know what they want to do and how to make it better. Usually we just have to get out of their way to let it happen.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

And aid them and give them the right support and tools to do it. And so it's a huge learning lesson for me. And I carried it forward every position I've had since then.

[Aaron]

Yeah. I think, like, I don't know, there's people that have this very negative worldview with people and especially in leadership and employment positions, which I've always found strange because it, I think becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. If you have this negative worldview about people, if you think they're not very smart, you end up with a people that aren't very smart. But I found people are actually quite smart and quite clever and quite intuitive. You just have to, they just have to be within the right environment to allow for it. But if you allow for it, it's pretty spectacular what people can do with little, with little guidance. They know. Yeah, they know.

[Jamie]

Yeah. And I think more to that is actually taking the chance to give them feedback or for them to give you feedback on what it would take. Right. Like there's a lot of people who know. Right. But are just not. Jermaine, to our discussion earlier, you're like, I didn't even listen. Like, I didn't give them a chance to say, here's what, you know, we should. Because I mean, every one of those people are watching it going, yeah, that might be right. Yeah, that might be right. Well, I'm telling them what to do.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Jamie]

But at the end they're just not feeling it, they're just not buying it. And so when it becomes my thing, then, okay, then I got to go out and do it too. So, you know, you just have to listen.

[Aaron]

How old were you at this point?

[Jamie]

27, 26.

[Aaron]

Like later twenties. Full of piss and vinegar.

[Jamie]

That's right.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

And somewhere. That's a fine line. So. So I had plenty of people who used to say that about me and somewhere that changed and it seemed like overnight where I went from full of piss and vinegar to the old dude in the room, like, what happened? Like, where did that go? But yes, that's Right.

[Aaron]

I'm like, yeah, I just turned 30 and I'm really enjoying where I am right now because I'm. I know. I'm aware that I'm still dumb, but I'm not as dumb, so. And it's like, I. You make a lot of great mistakes in your 20s. And I feel like now I can finally, like, I understand wisdom in a very small way now. Like, I understand life experience in a very small way. Like, oh, wow, all right. I have this little bit of life experience now that I can lean on to inform my decision making rather than just kick in every door I come to and deal with the consequences, which is what I did for a very long time.

[Jamie]

Sometimes that still works, by the way. Just saying.

[Aaron]

And sometimes it's necessary, but other than.

[Jamie]

There's a lot of people listening who will laugh at the comment when I said it.

[Aaron]

Trust me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jamie]

Because I still do that sometimes.

[Aaron]

It's. It's. Sometimes it is necessary. Yeah. I still do it, too, but it's also nice to have, like. I don't know, I feel like my toolbox is a little bit bigger.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Like, I don't just have a hammer anymore. I think that's the better way of explaining it. I have, like, I don't know, maybe like two screwdrivers and a pair of pliers. Right. And like, some tape now. So I have a few other. A few other tools I can apply to each situation. Right. I still use the hammer quite a bit, but it's. Yeah. I feel like your late 20s, early 30s, where I'm at right now is actually quite. Quite a fun place to be.

[Jamie]

Yeah. I wouldn't go back. No, me personally, yeah, I wouldn't.

[Aaron]

But that. But I think that's the goal. I think. I think I try to stay away from people that are always talking about the past because it's like, all right, you don't. You're probably not doing what you should be doing right now. Like, I do. I really admire my dad for always on his birthday or New Year's, he'd be like, this is going to be the best year ever. And he genuinely meant it. This is going to be the best year ever. And it's such a great mentality. It's like, why wouldn't you want. All right, just turned 30. Why wouldn't I want my 30th year to be my best year ever? And then when I go to 31, why wouldn't I want 31 to be back? Like, I don't. I don't want to be, I don't want 28 to be best. I want, I want now to be the best. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna work to make that happen.

[Jamie]

Right.

[Aaron]

And I feel like it's largely just a mentality.

[Jamie]

Absolutely.

[Aaron]

Like I, even if bad stuff's going on or whatever, it's just what you make of it and it's such a, a great mentality to have. Like, as you go through life, you're trying to make each part of your life the best ever, which is at least what I'm trying to do.

[Jamie]

But it's to what we were talking about earlier with the running stuff. Right. That's how it starts. It's. I tried this and then, well, okay, then let's try that. And then you continue. And next thing you know, you're like, oh, I'm doing a 40 hour race, 48 hour race this weekend.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

People are like, do what? And you're like, yeah. Have you ever done that before? Like, no. How are you going to do it? You're like, well, I, generally speaking have an idea what I'm going to do. I want to execute this. I have a goal, what I want to achieve, you know, the min and a max what I think it will be. And you know, but it's that, it's exactly that, Right. It's like, you know, can you continue? And it also becomes sort of a metric for you. Right. So Chad, Chad Wright does that. I forget it's called his fitness test. It's four miles under a certain time. I forget I want to say 30 minutes or something like that. That's his fitness test. He does it like once every quarter or once every half or something like that. That's his fitness test. He says that's my baseline. If I can't do it under that, then I need to change and work on speed or something like that. I feel like that, you know, it becomes sort of your baseline. And so every year the baseline moves a little bit up.

[Aaron]

Yeah, up. Or it can move side to side as well. Or it could move down to a different category because like hard over here might be different than hard over here because you don't have the skill. So just starting out is just as hard, quote unquote, as this other skill that you're much better at.

[Jamie]

Like moving from asphalt to bridges.

[Aaron]

Like moving from asphalt. Exactly. Yes, exactly. Yes. How. So you were at Dynapac, Atlas Copco for quite a while.

[Jamie]

Yeah, Yeah. I want to say it was the late 2000. I left Swagelok to go to Atlas. Yeah. So it's probably the late 2000. And then I was with Atlas for 10ish years and then we acquired Dynapac during that time and then divested Atlas. Divested Dynapac defy group in 17. So I went with that divestiture under Fiat Group for the last seven years.

[Aaron]

And then you led Dynapac within North America.

[Jamie]

That's right, yeah. I was the GM president for Dynapac in North America, which was Canada, US and the Caribbean. And Dynapac rollers, pavers, light compaction, compactors, all of that. That's right, yeah.

[Aaron]

Yeah, it's. And that's where I came across you within the Dynapack universe.

[Jamie]

Yep.

[Aaron]

I don't know when I first met you. Maybe AG1.

[Jamie]

Yes. Yep.

[Aaron]

Yeah. AG1 or Con Expo. You guys got involved at the summit. The Dynapack thing is quite interesting because like you said, you were able to grow it substantially, which is pretty, pretty cool. And it's pretty hard to do Dynapac when you, when you came in pretty small in the grand scheme of things. I mean, in the equipment manufacturing world.

[Jamie]

Sure.

[Aaron]

Not in, in fairness.

[Jamie]

Yeah, I mean, that's a good point.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jamie]

Considered. Considered a. What in the industry would refer to it as a short liner or I forget something, you know, it's basically a, you know, it's not a core brand.

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Jamie]

You know, that's usually someone who has something else.

[Aaron]

Right.

[Jamie]

So you have a main line and then you have this also. Right. So a lot of dirt people have, have a mainline dirt excavator, whatever, Komatsu, whatever it could be. And then they also have Dynafect.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but you, I mean, you were going up against some of the biggest industrial brands in the United States. In the world.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

How do you do that? How do you, how do you grow market share in a very competitive market against people that don't want you to grow market share?

[Jamie]

It was all me.

[Aaron]

No, yeah, yeah.

[Jamie]

The cool thing about Dynapack is that they have a 90 year brand recognition. So if you looked back historically about rollers, there was a point in time where Dynapac actually manufactured rollers. Right. In San Antonio. And so. But at one time it was actually referred to as the Kleenex of compaction. So it didn't matter whose roller it was, they would say, hey, go get the Dynapac.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Jamie]

And so there was this mentality of, I mean, you know, and it was a, it was a weird time where you have this kind of what we're Talking to last night, you have this transition of generational companies where kids actually grew up from their parents company as little kids on Dynapacks. And then it went away for a period of time because the market share continued to fall over the years due to a series of things. But, but when we started under the Fiat group, you know, you start building relationships one at a time. So I actually carved out. My first position was the VP of aftermarket. And so that was probably, I would say our biggest challenge or hurdle at the time was to bridge the gap on the, on the aftermarket piece. And aftermarket means service and support parts, all of that stuff. Right. And so you need to shore up the ability to keep machines running. I mean we talked about it last night. It's a whole different scheme of things. If you're thinking about a random piece of dirt equipment, usually if that piece of dirty equipment goes down, you probably have two or three more of them. As I'm staring at all the dirty equipment here, there's two or three of them sitting around that can be used in a pinch.

[Aaron]

Or you call United round holes or.

[Jamie]

You call United and they pull another 185 compressor out or whatever it might be. You have a paver out there and it goes down in the middle of the night. You got six loads of hot asphalt. Requires a whole different level of support.

[Aaron]

Well, yeah, and it's, it's the time sensitive component of paving to one. Yeah. You've got your closure for only so long. You've got your asphalt. You know, the plants already made you another. How many hundred tons then you've already got 100 something tons on the road coming to you.

[Jamie]

And, and, and as an oem, it's hard to understand sometimes or hard to digest. That's actually real money. I mean, I know that sounds crazy to us. It's a piece of equipment that's out there and the customer, you know, the customer obviously matters and what we're doing job matters. But at the same time you're like, I need to get this X hundred thousand dollar piece of equipment up and running. In the meantime, it's a whole different component. To your point. You've got someone's paid for all this hot asphalt, the mix is going, you know, we got to get it up and running. And so anyway, we're able to kind of focus on that. And in all fairness giving us the, because we became the specialist, instead of being having a team focus on a lot of different segments within the industry, within the construction industry, we literally just became Dynapack. So we literally just became compaction and paving.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

Which reminds me of a story. So we did AEM construction on National Mall two years ago. It's coming up again. Which Anderson will be in. Anyway, so construction on National Mall. And it happened to be during Mother's Day, and it was one of the coolest things I've ever done in this industry. And so, you know, all these kids are climbing around the machines, taking pictures and whatever. And so one of the moms came up, and she goes, oh, what's. What's Dynapac? I've never heard of it. And I'm like, oh, yeah, we. You know, our specialists in compaction and paving. And she goes, oh, you're the cause of all the orange barrels. And I said, probably, yes. I'd like to be the cause of all the orange barrels. And. And she laughed and she goes, yeah, but why can't you do it faster? I said, that's a great question. I said, we can. We just need to get more people using Dynapack. And she goes, well, she goes, I don't understand. She goes. And she looks. And she's like, I've heard of those guys. And I've heard of those guys. And she's talking about the big guys, right? She's talking about all those guys. And she's like, how come I've never heard of you? And I said, well, I said, in fairness. I said, those guys are all great. I said, but if you looked at it from the standpoint of from a medical perspective, I said, I have a primary care physician. I said, I like to run. He said, one time after I ran, my knee bothered me. So I went to my PCP and I said, hey, doc, my knee's bothering me. And she goes, okay. And I said, what did he do? He wiggled it around, checked it out, and said, oh, okay, great. He goes, yeah, I think it's such and such, and you should probably go see a specialist. And he sent me to an actual knee doctor, a specialist that looked at knees, said, dynapac is the knee doctor.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

A lot of these other guys are the primary care physician.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

And so it gave us the flexibility or the focus, if you will, the focus to actually focus on what matters, which was compaction and paving, which is super.

[Aaron]

Probably super valuable. Just folk. I mean, we've. We've focused as a business this year for the first time ever, and it's been so nice, so. Because it just gives you this lane, no pun intended here. We're talking about roads and Highways. But it gives you this lane to run in this clear permission. This is all you have to do. And you can become that true specialist, which gives you like, I feel like you can the. There's a. It's a Malcolm Gladwell book. David and Goliath. You know, the story everybody knows is you have Goliath, who's perceived to be the mightiest warrior in the land, is going to go whoop everybody's ass. And everybody's afraid to fight him because they're like, well, there's no way I'm going to win up against him. This kid comes around, hurls a rock at his head, kills him somehow because he came into it like, well, all right, if I, if I go head to head with them, I'm toast. I just don't have the armor, the size, the skill. But because I'm smaller, because I have this different perspective, why don't I just play a different game? Why don't I just do it differently? And so you can look at it like, well, how would you compete against the big players, especially with the dealer networks that they have? I mean, that's what's most impressive about those big operations. Their dealer networks are unmatched. The ability, their ability to service based just based on sheer numbers. The more the, the amount of parts they have that are available, the speed in which they can dispatch parts, the amount of technicians they have in any one geographic area at any one time, like it's. The numbers are really impressive. So you can look at that like, well, how can we even compete?

[Jamie]

Just shrug your shoulders and give up.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah. And give or give up or be like, well, maybe there's advantages to being more nimble, small. Being a specialist.

[Jamie]

We leaned into it.

[Aaron]

We can outmaneuver here. Yeah. And we can't outmaneuver them on excavators, but we don't need to.

[Jamie]

That's exactly right.

[Aaron]

Which is. It's pretty cool.

[Jamie]

And so we leaned into it, really. We leaned into it and we, we really went to a different model where we pared down. We pared down the dealer network and we made strategic partnerships with our dealers. Right. Which is very critical. I said it to you last night. This, this business is 20, maybe 30% equipment. Because as much as I want to tell you how fantastic someone's compaction, you know, roller is, it's a compassion roller.

[Aaron]

It's. That's. I've talked about, about this with a lot. I mean, that's what I've noticed with these trade shows is it's like, equipment's kind of a commodity. And I know that's a controversial thing to say, but it's like. And maybe it's not, but, I mean, a roller is a roller. An excavator is an excavator. Like a dump trucks. Dump truck. I mean, they all. Right, this one has different gizmos and gadgets, and this one's X amount more efficient. This one's that. But they all pave roads, they all roll stuff, they all dig holes.

[Jamie]

There are bells and whistles that everybody has. I mean, if you. If you go back to what they have at Dynapack, right. They launched the seismic compaction.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Jamie]

Which was a game changer in the industry and caused a kind of a shift in the way people talk to compaction. But at the end of the day. So I'll never forget, on the rental side, we were at ARA and tactical error on my phone. Anyway, we were at ARA and we had a very good rental customer there. And I was talking to Kurt, and we were walking around this. First we just launched the seismic unit. And so the seismic unit was, you know, state of the art. And, you know, it was fuel savings and it was going to save it from beating itself up. And I mean, there's a whole value proposition. There's actually is a legitimate whole value proposition around it. And Kurt looks me and he goes, okay, can I get it without it? I'm like, why? And he goes, I rent equipment like you do. Yes, you do. And so it kind of caused us to kind of readjust some of the strategic side and go, well, maybe on the rental side. Right. So we came up, came out with a RSM or rental spec machine, and said, yeah, we should not need that. Right. So anyway, it did come. But in general, you're right. I mean, compaction is compaction. And the art of it over time is the art of it over time. It's, you know, running over with a vibratory, you know, that compacts to a certain point, it gets tricky. You know, one of the things that we do talk about is, is that operators are not what operators used to be either. Right. I mean, there's all this artistry. Like, you know, if you talk about asphalt, like, oh, you know, Billy's been doing this for 40 years, and he knows just when the tips of the asphalt turn white that it's just properly compacted. Well, that time has more or less sailed with a lot of this stuff, because now you've got all this, but.

[Aaron]

Now you've got your GPS Compaction and your thermal. Your temperature sensors, all of that. All kinds of. All of that wild stuff out there now that can. I mean, even on the roller front, just the. The intelligent compaction, it's. You're just like coloring essentially, like you literally are. You want to make it all green.

[Jamie]

Yeah. It's like a video game, I was going to say. And so all of that happens. Right. You know, so the controls become video game, like, and the screen that you're looking at becomes video game control and. Absolutely, yes. And so that's kind of what it has evolved into. So while we say compaction is compaction and, you know, paving is paving, there is some artistry to it, you know, 100%. But at the end of the day, the crux of it is it's a vibratory roller that compacts whatever it's compacting.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And I'm speaking about it, like, I think paving is an amazing art. I love watching paving cruise. It is just so. Everything about it is spectacular. The amount, you know, one. The plant side of things, how they're making the mix, and then timing things out to put enough in the silo. And then you've got to get your truck spaced out or try to space your trucks out. They do their best to bunch up somehow every single time, but space your trucks out, you know, feed into the machine at the proper rate, and you got your mill out ahead, and you're. You're cleaning it up, and then you've got your. Your. Your paver. It has to be dialed in at a certain, you know, per whatever specs you're paving to. You've got the guys with the shovels and the rakes getting all the little fine adjustments, the rollers making it nice and smooth at the end. It's just like. And. And just how much they can do in any given night or day. It's. I think it's spectacular. But with machines, a roller, it's like, if I buy your roller, I just need it to work when I need it to work. That's what's important, the quality. Yes.

[Jamie]

You can argue there are certain things, like the need for oscillatory. Right. So around bridge decks.

[Aaron]

Yep.

[Jamie]

Yes. All of that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. But all of that stuff. But at the end of the day, you need to be able to hop on, and we need to compact that to make sure you get a certain density. Very simple.

[Aaron]

I just don't want it. Yeah. And when it's break. When it breaks, it's a problem. I need it fixed.

[Jamie]

It's a big problem. I got to get it fixed quickly. And so that's what I wanted to do. Right. So that was my kind of first foray into that. And so we. We identified at an early stage that we needed to partner with the right dealers, because at one point, at a certain point, we had a thousand dealers in the United States alone. So when you have a thousand dealers, that means you have no dealers, because they're like, I'm not stocking parts for that thing, because Billy down the street has it, too. And so we really created. Started to build strategic partnerships. And that's what I was saying. So to the point of a roller is a roller. Great. But at the same time, the fact that our dealers could call me personally if there was a problem and we had a relationship, many of them have been to my house. They know my kids. You know, we've gone to events together. I mean, it's not just, hey, you know, thanks for buying my equipment. You know, it becomes more of a personal thing like that.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Jamie]

And so that's the same sort of mentality or philosophy that we'll walk forward with Anderson in is partnering with that dealer network. So we'll use a lot of the same sort of strategies there. But. But, yes, that dealer network was key.

[Aaron]

Well, I like how you're talking last night, too, about how you were able, going back to the. The nimbleness that you had and have now with with the Anderson Ventures. You. You, the guy, quote, unquote, can go out and be with the dealer, can go out and be with the machines, can go out and be with the customers on the job sites, understand the product and need and problems you're solving at a very, very intimate level, which I think is really. Is just so crucial because I see that. I think it's. It's just so hard. Like, at a big company, you just. I think by definition, you just get more removed from things, which then, like a big company, you have more resources, but it's harder to stay connected with what's actually going on at that ground level, because you have 27 levels in between you and that customer at the end of the day. And you can kind of tell sometimes, like, ooh, yeah, they. I don't know. This is a little bit of a miss. They. They need to get out a little bit more and see what the heck's going on, because this isn't. They're messaging it this way, but it's actually over here. And I think that's pretty cool that you were able to Spend so much time with those actually using the products as well, which makes a giant difference, I think.

[Jamie]

Yeah. I remember going out to TxDOT and we're with the TxDOT guys and we had one. The TxDOT contract at the time. And so I think we delivered our first round of rollers and. And sent our first paper and tech stack guys. I go there because that was, you know, I wanted to. I wanted to become more, you know, facing and all that. So we're there and I had no idea we had problems. And so it was literally at that moment specifically, I was like, I need to be here, out here, seeing that feeling that, touching that on job sites so that I can have sort of a firsthand experience. Because even at a, at a. At a smaller company like that, it was important because even they don't know because everybody has their own things that they're all working on, you know, so forth. And so when you become the paver guy, you focus on the paver. If you become the compaction guy, you focus on the compaction roller. No one is focusing on all of it together. And so I felt like I wanted to get to a level where kind of what we were talking about is I wanted to understand all of it together because I felt like for us to grow in a good way and make smart decisions about the future, I couldn't just focus on just the roller or just the paver. It was the entire process that needed to be focused on which necessitated me being out there on the jobs doing more, you know, of that.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

And so it became that. And so that's when I consciously made a decision like, look, I need to be out here all the time.

[Aaron]

It sounds so simple, though. But it's quite rare. And that's one of the common threads I've seen between any top performing business anywhere, especially within the dirt world. Like, I can think through. I mean, some of the best companies I've been around, whoever runs the company, they're out and about. You see them like Sergeant Herb. Sergeant Herb, he made sure to be the one to take us around that first time. Dan Garcia. Yeah, that's a big company. He's got a lot going on.

[Jamie]

He does.

[Aaron]

He was the one to take us around. Vaughn Veit, big company, well known. He was the one to take us to the landfill. Spent the whole day with us. Or we were just in Japan with Hitachi. You go out to the quarry. The quarry owners there and all the senior execs for Hitachi in Japan are there. I didn't even. I Knew I didn't know who these people were. And I started talking to them after, like trying to figure out who is who and what positions they were. And there's a language barrier, etc. And I'm there to do a job first and foremost. So I was kind of catching up after, after at lunch. Big time people, like really big time.

[Jamie]

People.

[Aaron]

Very senior, very senior executives at a very large company. They were there at the quarry with the customer because they wanted to be there. And it's just. And the bigger you get, the harder it is because you have all these other things that pull you away from it. But I've found those best in class operations. Whoever's leading, it's not just one person, it's that leadership group. They're maintaining a certain level of awareness with what the heck's going on and what their customers actually do day to day. Which is pretty cool, I think.

[Jamie]

Yeah, it makes me laugh because I am so, that I so want to be out there so much. So I think it was my second week here at Anderson. I told the guys, so we have a test bridge in the back that we test every piece of equipment on. So I told the guys, I said, the next machine, I said, the first machine out this week, I want to get on it. And they're like, what? And I'm like, I want to be on it. They're like, what do you mean? I'm like, I want to get on the machine, climb down, spin the platform over, expand it out. I want to be on it. And they're like, okay. And I said, and I want some pictures of it so I can post it on LinkedIn. And so I did. And it looks so bad because I'm, I don't know what to expect. I, you know, I've been there two weeks and so I'm like, you know, you, you know, so you get on the, on the, it hangs over the side and you go to expand it out, right. And I'm not sure what to expect, right. So I'm not sure how fast, I'm not sure if it's going to kind of suddenly stop or whatever. So I'm holding onto the rails like this. So people are teasing me online. The picture I picked was like this and it looks like I'm white knuckle terrified. It looks like I'm scared to death, which I kind of was. But you know, it's just, that's in my nature though is to want to be in that forward facing role. I wanted, I mean it was, I wanted not only to, to show the industry I had made the change, jumped into it, but also the people and all that stuff. But to your point, I can't wait to see. This is, this is officially week four. I can't wait to actually get out and get on a bridge with an actual crew and talk through, you know, like we're, we're, you know, I think we've got 10, 12 machines up at Hampton Roads at the bridge.

[Aaron]

Oh, really?

[Jamie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Aaron]

Oh, wow. And so we have a video coming out this Saturday.

[Jamie]

Do you.

[Aaron]

Yeah, for the tunnel and expansion project.

[Jamie]

Okay.

[Aaron]

Flatiron. Yeah, yeah.

[Jamie]

Okay. Yeah. And so I can't wait to get up there and see the entire process. Right. And you know, get on a bridge and learn what the guys do and how they do it and all that kind of stuff. Because I, I mean, that stuff matters. That stuff matters.

[Aaron]

It really matters. And it, and it, it allows you to be more effective because you understand what the heck's going on. But it also, I feel like it signals to the rest of the organization like, oh shit, they're along, they're, they're in this with us, which is a really big deal. It's so in. The bigger you get, the more it, I feel like the more meaningful it is for people, for you to be around and present. I, I could sit here and probably recite examples all day of people that I know. They're top notch leaders, top notch companies. They're the ones out in the field talking to people, engaging with their customers, etc. The, the new venture with Andersen, it's these bridge inspection, bridge access equipment. Bridge access?

[Jamie]

Yeah, I spent the last few days, they're filming for the new website. And so I think I'm supposed to say Anderson Underbridge has the most technically advanced bridge access equipment in the world.

[Aaron]

So simply put, United States has a lot of bridges. Yes, a lot of bridges. What, like half a million?

[Jamie]

Over 600,000 bridges.

[Aaron]

600,000 bridges.

[Jamie]

Over 600,000 bridges. Average age is 47 years old.

[Aaron]

Yeah, we've got a bridge problem.

[Jamie]

Over half. So 56% of them are rated in poor or very poor condition.

[Aaron]

Yeah, we'll get to that. Because it's, it's, it's, it's alarming. But these machines. So a bridge, you can inspect the surface, the deck, by walking over it, driving over it.

[Jamie]

That's right.

[Aaron]

Looking at it, etc. But you have this structural component of the bridge underneath that you can't see from the deck because the decks on top of the structural component.

[Jamie]

Right.

[Aaron]

So you've got to get underneath somehow. But typically, the bridges, there's stuff below. That's why you have a bridge.

[Jamie]

Could be water, could be high, could be like this.

[Aaron]

Right.

[Jamie]

Hard to get below.

[Aaron]

Grab your Home Depot ladder and lean it up against there and have at it.

[Jamie]

Yep.

[Aaron]

So you. To explain these trucks, they. They're on the bridge.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

But then they have the ability to put people. They kind of hang over the bridge and then down and then underneath the bridge.

[Jamie]

That's right. Exactly.

[Aaron]

Right, yes.

[Jamie]

Perfect. Perfect explanation.

[Aaron]

Yeah. But. But suspended from the.

[Jamie]

From the top deck.

[Aaron]

From the top, yeah.

[Jamie]

Yeah. So the. So the. The. The technological advancement behind this thing is it's not an articulated truck. Right. It's not a bucket with a person, you know, with an articulated joint. Down, down and over that you can see, like with a person or two in a bucket. So this literally the thing for us is it deploys in 10 minutes.

[Aaron]

Okay.

[Jamie]

Right. So you can literally park it on the bridge, push some buttons at the control box, and it will deploy and have you under the bridge in, you know, 10 or 15 minutes. I think we officially say 15 minutes.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Jamie]

We did it yesterday on our test bridge. It was three and a half minutes. I was literally under the bridge, crawled under in for, like, four minutes.

[Aaron]

And so this allows for bridge inspections.

[Jamie]

To figure out bridge maintenance. So bridge maintenance, you know, has the utilities plugged into it. So you can, you know, if you want to get into welding or if you want to get into paint. We have a lot of paint companies who take these. These machines. There's a few other pieces to it. Right. So, like, it's also efficient, meaning that if you think about, I think, a traditional snoper truck or one of those, it. It's two people. One or two people. In our case, you can fit five.

[Aaron]

Wow. Significant platform.

[Jamie]

That's right. Yeah. The platform. We have them in various lengths. You can go up to 66ft, but you can put up to five people on the platform, and they can all be working at the same time doing different things, which, I mean, in the end, reduces man hours by like, 50%.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

Which is really what you're. What you're all about. And then the other cool thing about it is that. So if you think about a traditional bucket truck, you would park it, run out, do what you need to do. And if I need to do something 10ft further, I would take it back, move it forward 10ft, and do it again. In our case, we have a tracking system. So there's a driver, these Guys are deployed. Oh, we need to move 10ft. He drives it 10ft forward. So they're literally deployed and can do it at the same time.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And it seems it is a niche market, a niche piece of equipment. But like you said, there's 600,000 plus bridges in the United States. All need to be inspected, all need to be maintained.

[Jamie]

I'm still learning the industry, but I want to say it's like twice a year requires inspection. I'm sure can put it in the comments. But it's still a lot. I mean, it's still a lot. And there are requirements by the government that they have to have the inspections completed.

[Aaron]

And odds are everybody listening to this uses bridges every day. I mean, I drove over, I drive over bridges to get here. I drove over the river. Then there's some highway bridges and there's a lot of bridges that you don't think twice about.

[Jamie]

And that's a great point. Over the river, it's a hydra platform that's required or some type of something to get under that. You can't. You know, the other option is, is you run a barge out there and try to run a lift from a barge. That's pretty safe, which is another thing we boast 100% safety record.

[Aaron]

Wow. No, it's, it's. Yeah, the whole, the whole bridge. If you get into bridge statistics, it's, it's quite terrifying. It's.

[Jamie]

We. Our bridge infrastructure is failing. It is failing all of us.

[Aaron]

US Infrastructure is failing. And yeah, it's just, just, it's. I mentioned it a little bit last night, dinner. It's, it's. So if I, if I take it at face value, it's a little demoralizing to go to Tokyo or Dubai or most European cities or Santiago. Like you can go down the list and then they come back to American cities because the two are very different. The two are very different from just a quality of infrastructure standpoint. I think the quality of infrastructure I see elsewhere is far beyond where we are right now. On average. There are some places that are better than others, like Texas, for example. They have a phenomenal system, road system and program, but they also have a lot more money from a state standpoint than most others because of oil and gas. So they have, they have the revenue, they have the tens of billions of dollars. They can run this massive program. They've got all these people coming in, property tax, etc. It works. Whereas a lot of other states, it does not work, especially in a lot of these big cities. But then it's also, if I go past the initial emotions like, well, that's the opportunity. Because if we're going to succeed into the future, I know the conversations all about AI and so on and so forth. Data center this, data center that, whatever it is. But we can't succeed without bridges, without roads, without water systems, without a power grid. Like there's, there's so much need for infrastructure. I don't know where the money's going to come from. Not a clue. But there's so much need for infrastructure over the next generation that it just, it creates an enormous amount of opportunity. An enormous amount of opportunity.

[Jamie]

Yeah. And we, we have a unique opportunity in that while there is, you know, the need is about $190 billion to fix the bridges. That's what we think the need is. $190 billion.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

The government has only earmarked 40 billion.

[Aaron]

And the reconstruction of Europe was 130 billion, inflation adjusted after World War II.

[Jamie]

That's telling.

[Aaron]

It's telling. Yeah, yeah. To reconstruct the entirety of Europe after years of bombing campaigns.

[Jamie]

Europe's really small.

[Aaron]

It's, you know, it's, it's, it's not though. It's, it's, it's, it's like, yes, but it's, it's also, and it's apples to oranges, but it's like, yeah, just, just the dollars and cents required to do this. And bridges aren't a nice to have.

[Jamie]

Right.

[Aaron]

And at a certain point, like how long can bridges, how long can we know all these bridges are well past their design life. There's, and just hope, like we just hope we get a few more years.

[Jamie]

That's that. But that's why the government programs of inspection are so crit critical so that you can log and, and there's, you know, FHWA has a, has a website that you can go state by state, city by city, county by county and say, oh look, the bridge I drive over every day is rated very poor.

[Aaron]

Yeah, don't do that though. Odds are the bridge.

[Jamie]

Odds are it's probably not rated very well. That's right. But I think that's where, you know, it's just not a very sexy industry that, you know, people want to tap yet. And so that's why we bring this unique. It's a good cost effective, you know, measure to being able to do it quickly. Right. You can get under the bridge fast. Because the other, the other thing you see is that to do bridge work, it's orange barrels and it's usually shut off one side, move it to the, you know, then the other lane of traffic, so you choke that side down too. You know, in our case, we're single lane deployment, so you can quickly get into the bridge. 10 minutes, do what you need to do, take as long as you need to take and go well.

[Aaron]

And, but, but even the reducing the amount of time is, is important because the more, the more time you have out on that bridge, the more exposure you have. Not just traffic, but from a safety standpoint, because it's, it's not. As anybody working in road construction can tell you, people do not give a single shit about orange barrels, about flashing lights, even when there's a sheriff there. They don't care. They don't. And you want to think they do, but they're. And even if they do care, like, I don't want to hurt these people, they're on their phone or they're taking care of Susie in the back who's throwing Cheerios everywhere, or they're putting their makeup on, going to work, like, seen it all. Just crazy, crazy.

[Jamie]

Seen it all.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

Meanwhile, you're like, I have literally stood there at 3am next to a paving crew, watching cars fly by. Yeah. Who dudes probably had a few pops in him on the way. And you're driving. Yeah. And you're like, you know, or there's.

[Aaron]

A couple in a U Haul that's been driving for 21 hours. They've never driven a box truck in their life.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

They're driving across America. It's like.

[Jamie]

And you got a lane choked off in the middle of the night or whatever. And you know, it's, it's, there's, you know, there's exposure there for sure. So that's why it's quick. Get on single lane, do what you need to do, get off, open the lanes back up. That's what everybody wants. Oh, it's, it's, that's what everybody wants.

[Aaron]

It makes perfect sense, right? I've seen them a bunch. I think they're fascinating. I haven't seen them a close. We can change that.

[Jamie]

We can definitely change that. Absolutely. Yeah. And I didn't really either. It's kind of one of those, you know, you drive by it every day and you're like, oh, yeah, I know we need that, or whatever that is. But you, until you actually get into it, you're like, oh, that's pretty cool. You know, I didn't even know that existed.

[Aaron]

Oh, you just don't even think about how much is involved in building bridges. Either until you see it. Like, I think the best example. Have you driven over the Hoover Dam bypass?

[Jamie]

No.

[Aaron]

So they used to drive across the dam. Then traffic, terrorism, etc. We need to build a new bridge, but it's across this pretty sizable canyon. It's. It's pretty enormous. This, this span. So they created, you've probably seen pictures of it, this concrete arch. Oh yeah, that's, that's self supported. So it's, it's leveraging the canyon walls so there's nothing above. There's nothing above. That's the most important. The whole structure of the bridge is below the deck. And it is. The, the construction process was just magnificent. An absolute feat of engineering. The Hoover Dam feat of engineering this bridge equally so in a lot of regards, just the logistics and the, the crane setup that they needed and they, they met in the middle, so they had to. Just the way they formed the, the whole thing. Absolutely spectacular. It's big, beautiful structure, but you drive over it, there's like a concrete barrier wall that's about 6ft on one side, 6ft on the other. You don't see the dam, you don't see the canyon, you don't see the bridge. It's just concrete with no indication of how complex anything is. So you don't even think. I mean, you blink and you miss it. It's like the best example because I know how much engineering and money and time and human ingenuity went into the structure I'm driving over. And yet 99.9% of people probably don't even think twice about it.

[Jamie]

Just drove through it.

[Aaron]

Like that. I'm listening to my podcast. It's a great podcast. I'm really into it. Go over it. Oh, where was the Hoover Dam? I didn't even notice it because it's. People are doing that again every day. Like, I had to think, have I driven over bridges this morning? It's like, yeah, dumb, dumb. I drove over a lot of bridges every day. Regardless of if you're going over water or not. Like Phoenix, Arizona, we don't have bridges. There are so many highway overpasses. If you, if you go on any of the highways, you're going over bridges and even those bridges to place those girders. Like watching a bridge get built. It's amazing. Watching two cranes tandem pick the big. Watching girders get precast even. Yeah, these enormous precast girders and the, the tensioning that goes into them to, to ensure that they're strong enough of the bridge. And then, and then the trucks that have to drive these girders in because they're way too long to just set on a flatbed. So you need these tricky trailers and then these tandem picks and then you've got, you guys got, got these, these guys like, they're like monkeys, you know, scurrying around on these girders like it's nothing. Putting them in place. Then you're putting the deck on. All that work is completely forgotten about. Just drive across it. Don't think twice.

[Jamie]

It's just a headache when they have to do stuff to fix it.

[Aaron]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Jamie]

It's just all of it. It's a big headache.

[Aaron]

I'm there too. This bridge out here, sometimes they have work on us like, and it just screws everything up.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

I'm sitting there, I'm like, these guys.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

How dare they interrupt my afternoon evening.

[Jamie]

Yeah. Meanwhile, that bridge is rated at like a extremely poor.

[Aaron]

I'm not even, I'm not even looking up what the bridge is rated at.

[Jamie]

Because I know it's appreciation to be like, yeah, they probably, probably should fix that. I should probably take a breather. This extra five minute commute.

[Aaron]

Well, yeah. Tennessee's road budgets, not exactly Texas, the Texas program, I know that much, but.

[Jamie]

I think that's probably a lot of it. Is that communication piece to say or some strategy to say, here's our competent plan. Right. I think that's probably the biggest confusion for, I mean, like, even for us. Right. If you think about. So my, my real competitors are like scaffolding. Well, scaffolding is. It's not like, oh, let's, you know, run a scissor up in five minutes either. It's not the same thing. I mean, you got to set up scaffolding. That takes days to set up scaffolding. And by the way, that means permanent lane closures. That's not like, let's close, you know, a lane for four hours or something. I mean, that's because by the time you take days to set it up, you're not going to tear it back down in days, you know, so that's part of the, you know, there's no plan. Oh yeah. We're going to shut it down for this amount of time. I mean, how many times have you driven by the same bridge with the same barrels at the same time with no one? Oh yeah, it's just closed.

[Aaron]

Plenty of that.

[Jamie]

So I think that's probably the biggest frustration that you see as a general. Speaking as a general public person. Right. You just see that and So I, you know, for me, I felt like this was actually a chance for me to make a difference on that infrastructure piece.

[Aaron]

You can make a huge difference. Yeah. Like at face value, like, why? I don't know. Dynapac, you had a pretty good thing going there.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

You guys, I mean, you guys were.

[Jamie]

Really cooking great, great things happening. There still are.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

Yeah. And, you know, it was. It was a lot of kind of soul searching, so to speak, to do it. But when you realize the opportunity to really address a lot of the infrastructure pieces that we have missing here was like, let's do it. Let's go. Let's go attack it. Let's make a difference in it.

[Aaron]

Yeah. There's few more important things than bridges. Bridges are only in the news when either a ship runs into one or a fuel tanker explodes underneath one and burns the concrete. Like melts the concrete girders and causes a catastrophe.

[Jamie]

Philadelphia, right?

[Aaron]

Philadelphia. Or. Yeah. Something catastrophic. Some terrible thing happens other than that. But when that happens, that is like everything. Everything and that. I mean, shit. The bridge in Baltimore had a construction crew on it that was doing maintenance. That's right when they ran into the bridge. Crazy. So crazy.

[Jamie]

Yeah. That is just heartbreaking. Even when I was at dynapac, it was heartbreaking. I mean, I've done some stuff with Christy Raniak for Construction Angels and they did a program for those gu. And yeah. Just to hear about it, you're like, so needless. Anyway. Yeah, it's crazy. And so any. All of those things start to add up to why you want to do something like this. You know, why would you want to get involved in all of that? Stuff starts to add up. If you could have been on the bridge, could you have gotten the crew off faster if they were using our equipment quick, you know, all of that stuff and you're like, all of that and. Yeah. And it's. It's as an oem. Right. You probably had stuff coming in and out of Baltimore. Right.

[Aaron]

And so Big pickle.

[Jamie]

It was. It was more than just some dudes ran a boat into a bridge girder.

[Aaron]

You know, it was also like, that's not the everyday.

[Jamie]

Right.

[Aaron]

Happening. That was a pretty.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Freak thing.

[Jamie]

Sure.

[Aaron]

And they, I think they just announced the replacement. It's like many billions of dollars to replace. Of course.

[Jamie]

Right.

[Aaron]

Because everything is just billions of dollars now.

[Jamie]

We're just stuff for it. So. Yeah, it's okay by me.

[Aaron]

You'll be out there. Yeah. I mean, like a billion dollar job 10 years ago is like, that's a big one. Now it's everything. Yeah. I don't know how many billions.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Three, four. Oh, yeah. Cool. No, but you. You can. With this seemingly small company in. Is it South Carolina? North Carolina.

[Jamie]

York, South Carolina.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Just over the border. Seemingly small manufacturing company, S.C. you can impact tens of millions of people daily in a sense.

[Jamie]

I mean, just think about how many people go across the Hampton Roads bridge.

[Aaron]

Yeah. I feel like it's a hundred thousand a day.

[Jamie]

Yeah. Just that by itself, you know, and, and I don't know the exact count. I've heard anywhere from. From 10 to 15. Someone said we might have 20. I have a friend of mine who's a dealer up there who said, hey, not only did I see him all the way to the, you know, on the bridge, I saw him when I got off at my place at the beach. There's one right there at the, you know, when we went over the overpass at the beach. I feel like all over the place.

[Aaron]

I saw him when I was up there. Is it the. The project where they're expanding it?

[Jamie]

Yes.

[Aaron]

Across from Newport News to Norfolk.

[Jamie]

Yes.

[Aaron]

Flatiron Dragatos.

[Jamie]

Yep. Yes.

[Aaron]

Which I now is, I think, Dragatos. Flatiron or Flatiron Dragatos.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

The other combined now.

[Jamie]

Right.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Because they're, they're, they're working on that new Trussell Bridge across there. Yeah. That's a big one. I mean, the amount of girders on that.

[Jamie]

Yes.

[Aaron]

Job. It's wild. How many are out there.

[Jamie]

Yeah. And I, I will not sit here and pretend like I know about bridges. I've been doing this whole four weeks. Right. I, My, my new thing is, is I want to connect the asphalt with the bridges. Right. That's my new tagline. Because, you know, everyone knows me from asphalt side.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Jamie]

But now the bridges connect the asphalt, so I will learn more, obviously, as it goes. But, yeah, it's a. It's an art. And the connections, though, between the two industries are pretty fantastic. Right. Because we had done work with Regattos in Texas at Dynapack.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

So we knew those guys, too. And so, you know, there's. There's a lot of different connections. Right. So my guys were talking about, oh, we're going to go up and see Champion Asphalt fault. Okay. They're also Dynapack customer, you know, and so anyway, there's a lot of ENB paving. There's a lot of these guys that you, you know, from similar industry, which going in, you're kind of like, ah, I'M sure there'll be some. But it's amazing how tightly connected it is.

[Aaron]

Well, and you have this, like, you have a pretty big name in that world. So people, people are watching you. Oh, you went over here?

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

They know, they're aware.

[Jamie]

And opportunities like this are cool to grow that too. Right. All of a sudden, I don't want to say it like that, but all of a sudden you've got like Iron Markets is like, hey, we also do bridges. And so Brandon Noel will come down. He's going to do some stuff on the bridge. Brandon Williamson from Roads and Bridges is like, hey, you know, we were talking. I called him and said, hey, let's, you know, sync up and do some stuff. So it's, it's, it's. I, look, I think we're on the brink of something very. We're going to lean into it and I think we have, you know, something very cool to start connecting the industry sort of.

[Aaron]

What's it, what's it like to be a American manufacturer? In April of 2025.

[Jamie]

I had longed for that at Dynapack. Right. In fact, we had just bought 35 acres in, in South Charlotte. And that was, that was what I was working toward. But we are already doing that here. It is a great time to be building products in South Carolina in the United States of America.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

With. With it's North American steel, but we're obviously with tariffs and so forth. We're looking at making it all American steel. But it is, it is a fun time. Let's just say that it's exciting to do not have to be as concerned about tariffs.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Because it's. Yeah. It still impacts you.

[Jamie]

Sure.

[Aaron]

It impacts everybody, especially on steel.

[Jamie]

That's right.

[Aaron]

Because it's just like people don't even like to the bridge conversation, just from a commodity standpoint. We don't produce a lot of commodities here in the United States. Like most, A lot of it's imported, not most steel, but. But the American steel industry has just been routed, routed over the past few decades especially. It's just like been dying on the vine.

[Jamie]

I'm originally from Cleveland, so look at.

[Aaron]

Cleveland, look at Ohio, look at the whole rust belt. Gary, Indiana, you know, it's. It's just this hollowed out, this husk of what used to be Pittsburgh. You know, these were some of the wealthiest. Detroit, like some of the wealthiest places in the world at a certain time. And it's just all. It's just slowly. Slow, Slow death. Slow death, slow death. It hasn't Been quick. It's just slow death. I hope you guys are putting this giant made in America flag on every machine. And if you aren't already, you better start. Yes, I would be. So.

[Jamie]

Right. So I joked, I want to put a giant flag pole so that everyone gets this like giant American flag. So when it gets, you know, delivered to the site, this giant flag shows up with this machine.

[Aaron]

Yes, yeah, yeah, I would be American.

[Jamie]

Flag, I said, because I told you we're redoing the website. So, you know, every, every site, every page you pop up, it's going to be American flag waving and. Yes, that's right. It's a big deal.

[Aaron]

It's a really big.

[Jamie]

It's a big deal.

[Aaron]

Do you think, do you think realistically we can manufacture in America though?

[Jamie]

I mean, that's cool. I think the. Yeah. The issue becomes the cost piece, right? Can we, we can do it. The issue becomes, can you do it competitively?

[Aaron]

Right.

[Jamie]

The cost of labor, the cost of everything, you know, the, the accessory component, I mean, all that stuff. But the fabrication, I mean, we have every, I mean we have the skill, we have the, the labor force, the labor pool. We have, you know, all of that. It's just more expensive here than it is elsewhere.

[Aaron]

It's interesting too. You, you see like markets reacting today. The market's open now. I don't know what it's done. I was looking at futures last night. Every headlines like market tanks on tariff news because these are like hyper nationalized giant conglomerates. And everybody takes the S&P 500 as the indicator of the US economy, which it is, but it's not. And so like the big companies, yeah, it's a problem because they're, I mean, they are just pulling stuff from everywhere nowadays, which we've all benefited from in some ways. But most of the smaller companies, like the American companies I've been talking to, they're just like, oh, we're just going to figure it out. This is actually a great thing. And so if you look at it from like the giant corporation standpoint, there's some nervousness. Wall Street's not a super fan of it. The banks, the financialization worlds that we've basically morphed our economy into is not super stoked on it. They love globalization, hyper globalization and just consume, consume, consume, consume, because that's how they've made all their money. But I feel like American businesses, true American businesses that are doing stuff here at the smaller scale, they're actually quite bullish on all of this, which I.

[Jamie]

Think is the point, we're all in. We're leaning all in. We foresee, you know, I said, you've got four years of all in, at least on it. Made in America, manufactured in America, you know, all American stuff. And so we're all in on it. We're going to lean into this. And if you look at, at, you know, aem, I make America. If you look at ira, you know, all the American incentives and all that, I mean, it is. It is. We're all in. We're leaning in on this. And, yeah, it's going to grow even more for us.

[Aaron]

I don't know. You're perfectly positioned. It's just a, It's a very interesting time.

[Jamie]

It is.

[Aaron]

I mean, I'm, and I'm a little behind. I'm really trying to, like, dig in on tariffs and how they work and what the history of tariffs is and like, what. It's.

[Jamie]

Even. Even. We don't know.

[Aaron]

It's very convoluted.

[Jamie]

I mean, I can tell you. So, so I started in the new role March 1, that last week of March, the tariffs were announced and we had to have a strategic meeting with our brokers to try to understand if a part comes in or a piece of whatever comes in with a certain hts, then a percentage of that HTS could be applied towards the tariff. Meaning that. Let's just say you had a fiberglass hood that had steel hinges.

[Aaron]

I see.

[Jamie]

If it was imported on one of the HTS codes that had the tariff on it, they would then have to ask the manufacturer, oh, what percentage of this component is this steel? And you go, it's a fiberglass hood. So 98% of it is. 99% of it is fiberglass. It's the hinges. It's 1%. Okay. Tariff on 1%. Try trying to figure that out. Try, try that math to assess what's the price increase needed to offset that cost? Or frankly, forget that for a second. Forget a price increase. What's the margin impact on that over an entire machine build?

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Jamie]

And, oh, by the way, it's going into effect yesterday, right?

[Aaron]

I mean, last night.

[Jamie]

Yes.

[Aaron]

At midnight.

[Jamie]

And so, you know, as a manufacturer, that's what we're all dealing with. Luckily, in my spot, far less today, other than the steel, than it was.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Jamie]

But if you're, you know, if you're manufactured in Germany or manufactured in Sweden or, you know, which at the beginning we're like, yeah, those are fine. Those are not subject to anything.

[Aaron]

Not anymore. Even Japan.

[Jamie]

It doesn't matter what it is these days. That's right. Yeah. So. And. And by the time this actually airs, you know, this is what we're talking about last night. Who knows what this thing looks like?

[Aaron]

Who knows?

[Jamie]

Right. And so as a manufacturer, that struggle becomes. Okay, so I'm literally buying steel today for machines that will be manufactured in four or five, six months. And so when do you implement a price increase? Or when do you determine you're going to hit the margin on your piano? And so that's where all of this starts to become very interesting to manage, you know, at a. At a margin level.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

In a communication level. Right. So, you know, I. In fact, this week, I will. I will doctor up a letter to our. Our customers that says, hey, you know, we appreciate the business. We love you guys. Just know that we're keeping an eye on margins. We're not going to artificially inflate. But we do want to make note that obviously the tariffs do impact us so forth. But. And I think all of that is a communication. Right. What we can't do is we can't get into Covid, where a lot of the OEMs were just. Just like, oh, by the way, here's a price increase. Oh, by the way, here's another pricing.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And we're only doing it because poor us, like, Right. Supply. Like, we're having it so hard over here. So we have to increase. We have to increase.

[Jamie]

Yes.

[Aaron]

Like, hey, don't look up our record quarterly earnings. Don't. Don't look up our record annual earnings. That's. That's beside the point, guys. Let's not look that up. You don't need to see that. It's all public information. But. But let's just keep ratcheting up prices. And then now these prices are kind of nice. Everybody's still paying them. Let's keep going. And this isn't. It's not just to pick on OEMs. This is like any giant corporation, the whole corporate inflation thing, or whatever it was called. 100% real.

[Jamie]

Yeah. And it's not even just that. I mean, you can. You can look at auction values. You can. I mean, all of that stuff. Nothing has really. I think my friends at. @ Richie and Purple Wave and those guys will tell you that it started to. And they probably again in the comments, I'm sure they'll tell me. But I mean, you still have fairly artificially inflated values on stuff.

[Aaron]

Yeah, right.

[Jamie]

I mean, if you looked pre Covid versus post Covid, you still have values that are. That are not as high as I felt like I wanted as an OEM if I ever had to sell used equipment. But at the same time, you know, you still have values that are, you know, haven't really returned well.

[Aaron]

And I mean they just went up so fast. It was like a hundred thousand dollar piece of equipment. Two years later, it was 18 months later was 150,000, 175. It was like the numbers I was hearing from friends buying machines, I'm like, what did you just buy a skid steer for like a mid sized skit, like right. How much did you just pay? Like a hundred thousand. What?

[Jamie]

So I am interested to follow the used car market because as of yesterday, used car value should have gone up 15%, 20%.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

So all of a sudden you're going to see a flood of cars hit the market just to see the used car values. Because I mean in theory, in theory, if it's so much more expensive. I have a car that I bought pre tariff, now it's post tariff and all these increases are going to be implemented.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

Well, did car values inflate? So I have a car that has 5,000 miles on it. Oh, it's now available. I can sell it for $10,000 more than I bought it for. And then what do you buy, I guess is the next question. Right. Just like the housing boom. Right. Everyone went and sold their houses, made a bunch of money and then turned around and had to buy another house that was also artificially inflated.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Now people like me will never be able to buy a house ever.

[Jamie]

That's your own fault because you travel so much.

[Aaron]

Well, no, it's the baby boomers fault actually. Okay, good. Yeah. And they're, you know, oh wow, we're making so much money on our house. Like, oh, cool. Yeah, thanks man. Great. Love that.

[Jamie]

I'm not a baby boomer, by the way.

[Aaron]

I know, that's what, I'm not blaming you. I'm blaming the baby boomers. And they're, they're so proud of how much they're all these like Mr. Real Estate Investor because their home is appreciated like crazy when they haven't done anything. But that's different. Can of worms. No. And the inflation just hasn't been on like consumer goods or equipment or anything like that. It's like we were talking to, it's. The infrastructure itself is way more expensive than it used to be even just a decade ago, which to me is, I don't know if alarming is the right word, but it's like it's Something to watch for. Sure. I mean, I've talked about this. They're building this new Amtrak tunnel and are repairing. Replacing an existing tunnel. So it's not new. They're replacing existing tunnels. They might be expanding it. I don't. I don't totally remember what the scope is, but they announced it, and it's like a 1.5 mile tunnel. 1.5 miles of Amtrak. And they were like, it's $15 billion. And I saw it. I was like, it must be 1.5. They just screwed up. They didn't put the period wrong.

[Jamie]

Decimal.

[Aaron]

Yeah, they screwed up the decimal. And then I looked up another article. $15 billion for 1.5 miles of Amtrak tunnel in New York City. It's like, what. How much.

[Jamie]

What do you think it took them to build it in the first place?

[Aaron]

I would guess not 15 billion. And I understand it's more complicated nowadays because it's New York City and there's all these this and that, but it's.

[Jamie]

Still like, what's the multiplier to make it okay, though?

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I still don't look at that. Like, wow, I'm really getting. You know, we're getting our bang for our buck here. Like, this is great. I feel great. As you know, Mr. Tack. Like, we're. We're just hitting it out of the park here, guys. This is great. And I mean, I even, you know, talking to, like, I'm not even going to name them. A DOT contractor that decided not to bid certain projects because they were too big. They're the biggest DOT contractor in this area by a wide margin. They were just like, we just can't do it. It's just too much risk. Why would we take on that risk? Why would we do it? And then you have these foreign firms coming in. Oh, yeah, we'll do it. Whatever. How's that going to go? I don't know. I mean, historically, not very well. Very well, but. But. But they're just like. It's just. They're the biggest, and it's too big. It's like, what the heck is going on here? I don't know.

[Jamie]

Why do you think that is? Why do you think they're not interested?

[Aaron]

It's just. It's just too much risk to go put that many eggs in one basket. And in fairness, they'll pick up a large portion of it because they're the ones doing a lot of that work.

[Jamie]

Right.

[Aaron]

So why take on the risk of the subbed anyway? They're gonna. They're gonna be Supplying the materials, subbing in any way, so on and so forth. They already have a lot of work going on.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

But it's. And then other projects, like, they've had to rebid a lot of stuff recently because it'll be, you know, billion dollar project with one bidder. One bidder. You know, it's like, wait a minute, hey, we, we might have to rework this. And I know that's been a problem, especially on the west coast, but.

[Jamie]

Yeah, I, I wish I knew that piece of the infrastructure better.

[Aaron]

I wish I did too, you know, wish I understood it. Yeah, I don't think anybody understands it.

[Jamie]

And I think that's the problem.

[Aaron]

They're like, we don't know.

[Jamie]

I think that's the problem is it's kind of renegade and, you know, I'm going to kind of do what I want based on how I want to do it. And I mean, I don't even know who I is, to be honest with you, when you're talking about that stuff. Yeah, how, how did they determine, you know, all of the logistics, when is the timing, when it, you know, how. I don't know. It's just, there's so much to it.

[Aaron]

That there's a lot to it. But I think it's a good time to be an infrastructure. Yes, I think it's a good time to be in American infrastructure. I'm hoping we figure it out. I'm optimistic. I think we'll maybe get our bridges back up to snuff, maybe get our roads back up to snuff. Maybe ensure the next generation will be better off than this generation. At least that's the hope of any nation. And it's people like you and equipment like yours that'll help do that.

[Jamie]

I appreciate that. Yeah, I share the same sentiment and believe that as a country, we will stand behind getting the infrastructure needs that we need met.

[Aaron]

Yeah, I'm optimistic. I think there's some competing, competing things like our trillion dollar defense budget, for example, but other than that, like, that's a footnote. We can figure that one out. Raytheon needs their, they need their money. Boeing, Boeing needs their money.

[Jamie]

Yes.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but it's, it's, it's cool too. I think I was talking about this. I don't know. I don't know when it was. I don't remember my conversations now, but I do feel like the, the winds are shifting as well. From a workforce standpoint, I do think there is a desire from like an American manufacturing standpoint, I think there's A desire for people to do that kind of work now, because I think we've been pushed so far. Like your comments of the pendulum. Your pendulum comment. We used to be an economy that made things. World War II comes about. Post World War II comes about. Wait a minute. We can just be a global empire. And the benefit of a global empire is we can go access new labor that we couldn't access before new resources, couldn't access before new manufacturing bases. We can just do it all elsewhere, which then means we can shift to this, like, financialization information economy, which is. If you look at the S and P, it's mostly not companies that make things. It's technology, it's finance, it's insurance, it's medical, it's. It's all these other information industries, pharmaceuticals, whatever it is, which is great. But is it great? Is it like the whole economy being that. That great. All these people working in these worlds in which they don't really know what they do, they don't know what they provide for society. They don't know. They couldn't explain, like, how are you making the world a better place by what you do? They just saw 2020 that their job's completely irrelevant. Like how like a vast portion of the entire United States working population found out that, wait a minute, my job is actually not that important because I'm not categorized, not essential. I'm not essential. So what does that make it?

[Jamie]

Me.

[Aaron]

Which no one's really talked about. Right. And I think now. And. And then you also have higher education. Like, do I think engineering degree is still a great thing? 100%. But do I think a degree in general's been way oversold? 100%? Absolutely. It's just a statistical fact at this point. You could look at earnings out of school and Absolutely. So on and so forth to be like, nope. It just financially.

[Jamie]

Of education. Yeah. Financial aid. And it's just a.

[Aaron]

Kind of a bad deal now. Agree. It's like, why would I buy that product if I'm going to go into debt to buy this product that doesn't earn me the money to pay off the debt. So what am I doing here? So I think there's a lot of people searching for something different, searching for something more, searching for something tangible, searching for something almost in a world in which we used to occupy. That is building stuff that is working with your hands, working alongside other people, creating, making a real difference in the world, which is quite exciting. It's like the pendulum is swinging back and that that process will cause chaos. Because it's not aligned with a lot of the big power player Wall street companies, but it's very aligned with the American middle class, which has been routed for decades now. And the American middle class is the majority of America. So theoretically it should work.

[Jamie]

Yes. Yeah. You also have in this shift though, because you've. The pendulum has swung so quickly back to the other side. There's not a ton of people who can weld or can do X job, which is.

[Aaron]

Which was my question.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Do you think it's legitimately possible to manufacture.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

At scale in the States.

[Jamie]

And, and these dudes are smart, by the way, when they know, because they know there's not a ton of people who A, want to weld or B, can weld or C, want to make that their life and actually be a dedicated welter welder on their craft. Right. And so at the risk of flaming myself and having my welders come to me and say, hey, we want more money, that's where you're at though, right? Is because all of us who are now manufacturing here or have been manufacturing here want to put more effort to manufacture here. That segment of finding that person now is, it's becoming better. But in general, because that's been something we've lagged in this country for a long time. It's not easy and it's not cheap.

[Aaron]

It's not easy, it's not cheap. But wage growth has not nearly been there. Correct. For that class of individual. So. And when I was talking with another executive in the industry, he made an interesting point. He was like, you know, a lot of people talk about the wage growth thing from a negative standpoint because it's, it's, it's, it's hard on a business. Like, it's, I'm there, I'm, I'm, I've been in that world where people want raises, so on and so forth, and it's like the margin's not there, the money's not there. It's like, I can't make up money. It's just we can't do that right now. So I understand that, that side of the thing, that side of pressure, but he was like, well, but it's like your, your best friend got a great promotion, like, are you going to be bummed out for them or happy for them? It's like, I'm thrilled for these people because now the market is dictating a much higher, they're assigning them a much higher value, which is, is well deserved because the value they're Creating in the world is proportional to what they're getting paid. We have to figure it out on the business side. But it's like, this is great for everybody. And if you look at, I mean, I think that's a big, big problem in manufacturing or construction is just the wages. Like, especially in the South. It's like, no wonder the south is such a big labor challenge within construction or the trades. It's like the wages are, are low, are really low in the south compared to some other regions and across the board too. I just. And more expensive isn't bad either. Like, I think that is immediately assigned to bad. But we're so drunk on consumption. Consume, consume, consume, consume, consume. More, more, more for less, more for less, more for less. And it's like, at what point, you know, we're going to, we've got eight going on 9 billion people, coming up on 10 billion people at some point. At what point can you just endlessly consume? We've been in this period, post World War II of non stop consumption. When does the music stop? Or when do we have to stop the music? And it's like, okay, what if, you know, we built more stuff here? It's going to be more expensive, but it's gonna be better. It's closer to home. We're keeping the money here so it's not going abroad. Like, that's. I was listening to an economist talk about tariffs this morning. It's like that's a big part of the tariff prop. That's a big part of the problem that's being tried to be solved by tariffs. It's like we go buy stuff from other places and then the money stays there. It doesn't come back. It doesn't benefit anybody here. It benefits a very specific class of individual within our country. It benefits, benefits the other countries, doesn't benefit us. So I think it's a lot of short term stuff to work through.

[Jamie]

But do you want to buy an F150 for 100 grand made here or an F150 for 50 grand made partly in Mexico and partly here?

[Aaron]

So that's. And that's the question.

[Jamie]

That's where it gets tricky, right? And as a manufacturer, that's what you're balancing the whole time. You know, that's exactly what you're trying to balance. And so you've had years, 10, 15, 20, arguably more years of cheaper, cheaper, cheaper. To your point, consumption, consumption, consumption. And now all of a sudden, how do you flirt with that today and go, okay, everything's 100% American. And I mean, in my case, you know, we can lean into it, right? We can definitely lean into it because we're niche in what we do and so forth. But as a general consumer, you ask yourself on anything. Okay, so I want a whatever certain size tv and I want Roku or Smart or something built into it. I look in, oh, it's at Walmart for $328. Okay, well, could I buy one made here that's $550. Not gonna happen.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but I would, I would. I've started to buy a lot less and just better stuff, which I'm much prefer. I've really tried to reduce my consumption just because it's like it's in my best interest as a consumer to just buy more expensive, nicer stuff. And I know I'm in that position. I don't. I really don't earn that much in the grand scheme of things. But like, I don't know, even with my kitchen stuff back in the day, you just buy whatever shit's at Target, right? Knives are knives. All right. No, instead I bought a very nice German steel knife set 10 years ago that I still cook with today. As sharp as can be, leaves nothing to be desired. The Target knives, we have them here in the office. They're dog. We need to throw them out and get more knives. I end up spending more money over the long term on this garbage product, wasting more materials, etc. I'd rather just have the nice stuff. It's German steel. I know.

[Jamie]

I was just gonna say sounds like German steel to me.

[Aaron]

It's German steel, yes.

[Jamie]

Yeah. But I think you're in the minority with that.

[Aaron]

I think so, yes.

[Jamie]

I think generally speaking, and I don't want to speak for the American public, but I think in general, everybody wants to do right and feels like they want to do right. But at the end of the day, if the decision becomes $300 TV versus $500 TV, that's nicer. It's a TV. I don't know how long it's going to last anyway.

[Aaron]

It's not like I only have 300 bucks right now.

[Jamie]

I'm going to buy the $300 TV.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

And so I think that's sort of where you are in a shift culturally. And I think that's how politics has gone over the past years. And I think that's kind of why we are where we are today from a politics perspective. That. Yeah, And I get what you're saying. I do think what I was saying earlier though, is, is You've, you've literally kind of overnight sort of have said that as, as a, as an AM member, we've said for a long time trades are very important. We need to really bring back, you know, the, the trade side of things in, into this economy. But you've kind of turned it around overnight where, okay, college degree, four year degree, it's okay if you want to do it. If you don't want to do it, be in a trade. And all of a sudden people are like, I should be in a trade. Yeah, but you went for this law with nothing.

[Aaron]

Sure, yeah. I just, it's like we're a drug addict and we just got checked in abruptly to rehab and it's like, all right, is cold turkey the best way to do it? Is there another option? I don't know. But in a lot of ways, like we're so far gone at this point. I think I was listening to something the other day too, is talking about Australia. I love Australia. Love Australia.

[Jamie]

Never been there.

[Aaron]

It is a spectacular place and a spectacular culture and I didn't really appreciate it until somebody said it, but it's like Australia has a middle class and it's a middle class culture. It's a working culture. There's still all the other stuff, but a lot of people work. Like there's workwear stores at the mall, there's workwear stores spread out all over the place. People, you go into the supermarket, people are wearing workwear. Like it's a, it's a, it's a working class society and it's, you know, a big percentage of the economy's commodity is, is resources that they're selling abroad, etc. But it's, it's, it's, it has a middle class still, whereas you can tell in a lot of ways that middle class has been routed here, which, and I didn't quite understand it and see it until they had pointed that out, it's like that's it. Like that's exactly it. It, it's this middle class society, it's this working society that I've fallen in love with that used to be here and that is here within the dirt world, but isn't really here otherwise. And if we can bring that back in some regard, which I think has to happen because of, we're starting to go like way off the deep end here, but just because of global population dynamics, there's going to be a lot of countries that start to shrink from a population standpoint over the next 50 years, which is going to be A whole different can of worms. Like, and then they're just in. Globalization is just not sustainable. Like, us being the maritime security force for the world, like, it's already starting to prove. Yeah, pretty shaky. Like, just talk to the Houthis about that right now. And how we're very incapable of taking out a, like a rebel force. World's most powerful navy struggling to figure out retail drones. But it's just. It's just not sustainable. Like, at some point we were gonna. At some point not, we were going to, like, we're gonna have to do more here. We're gonna have to produce more of our resources. We're gonna have to produce more of what we're consuming. We're gonna have to do more closer to home. Maybe that's in Mexico, maybe that's in Canada, maybe that's somewhere in the United States. But having the whole world do everything is just not a good business model is at least my opinion.

[Jamie]

I think it's very complicated. I really do.

[Aaron]

It's extremely complicated. I'm sitting here like a kindergartner with my coloring book. Like, you just have to make it purple.

[Jamie]

Having. Having, you know, having been tied to companies in Sweden and France and in Germany, and it's extremely complicated. I mean.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

And the way they do things is different than the way we do things, you know, and. And even they is. Is different, right?

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

The way that, you know, our guys in Germany would build something versus the way the guys in Sweden would build something versus the way the guys in India builds. I mean, it's all. Until you see a shift in. To your earlier point in, I want to buy the best of something. Right. And then you have to mind shift and go, if it's built here, it's the best. Right. Which I have that right in my mind. If it's built here, it's better than anything. Right. I don't know. I guess I feel like the entire United States feels like that, but I.

[Aaron]

Don'T think it's going to get that way. I think you have to force it, which is what tariffs is doing.

[Jamie]

That's what they're trying to do. Yeah, that's what they're trying to do.

[Aaron]

Trying to do.

[Jamie]

You know, so right. Wrong or indifferent, that is sort of that intent. Yeah, but I think it's, it's, it's, as I said, it's very complicated. The picture is, is, you know, when you think about to your, you know, you said that Australia, they export a lot of mineral stuff, gold and all of that. You Know, exotic materials. If we had that here on our own, what would that do to them?

[Aaron]

Well, they export all to Asia, which we all buy. Which then we buy. But we have all those materials. Like we have not everything we need. But between Mexico, United States and Canada.

[Jamie]

Right.

[Aaron]

We have almost everything.

[Jamie]

So it sounds like you're advocating we buy Mexico and Canada, is that what.

[Aaron]

No, I'm just saying we, we make them great partners and keep working together because they need what we have as much as we need what they have. But no, I, I'm, I'm off. Like, I'm not. There's a lot of people saying, like, we need to make everything American. Like that's. No, it's ridiculous. That just, it doesn't work that way. Like, where the fuck do you think your bananas are coming from? Okay, you think your bananas are coming from Illinois, Right. There's not a lot of banana fields in Illinois, buster. Like we need. There will always be global trade. And like I was telling you, we went see the Hitachi factories in Japan. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. I've been to German factories. Unbelievable. French factories. Unbelievable. Chinese factories. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. I have nothing but respect for what the heck's going on. It's just that also it's like it's not sustainable where it's at. And we wouldn't have the massive. If it was sustainable, we wouldn't have, you know, the almost $30 trillion in debt.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

If something wasn't broken.

[Jamie]

I, a million percent agree with all of that. Right. I just feel like that's a. I was talking to the Uber driver yesterday, which is funny. You get into plenty of conversations with these guys.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

I, not to be too political, but it feels like the issue, a lot of the issue that you have is that it's, it's not a consistent, like you don't, you don't have a consistent vision and then deviate it or alter it one way or another. A few points up or down. Right. You have, I want to go this way or I want to go this way. Like there's no sort of strategic direction moving forward in this space. Right. It's, it's completely the opposite. And so to flip flop that every some number of years is very complicated as an oem. Like for example, I'm leaning into this thing for four years. Right. Who knows whether it's four years or not, by the way.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jamie]

But what happens after that? Then what? So I'm a firm believer that doesn't matter. You know, if you make it here, it's still Good.

[Aaron]

Yeah. But that, I think that's the fun of business. The complexity of business too, is that it's like even okay, you know, covet happens. Like, what are you gonna do about it? It's just, you just have to deal with it. You just have to figure it out or you die. It's. It's survival of the fittest. And there are some games you can play, like lobbying, for example, you know, to start making.

[Jamie]

Not that all which happens, by the way.

[Aaron]

Boy, does it happen. Boy does it happen. But, you know, in, in theory, it's survival of the fittest. And it's those that. Okay, cool. Like check tariffs. That's reality. I can go bitch about it. I can say it's not fair. I can do whatever. I have to figure it out.

[Jamie]

Yeah. But the coolest thing with that is an oem though, especially in the commodity side, which we're not. But in the commodity side, the coolest thing is the flinch test. What happens when everybody sees the tariff? Someone has to jump first.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

And so then you go, wait. So I think everybody's kind of looking at each other. It's like the Spider man meme.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. Yeah.

[Jamie]

Everybody's looking at each other right now going, when is someone going to pull the trigger and start a price increase war? Because that's sort of what, you know, we're all staring at each other going, oh, you know, so. Because that's coming. Yeah. I mean, the tariff is going to do that because you're going to have goods. I mean, if you looked at. Let's just talk about the compaction and paving space for a second. Who actually builds a majority of their stuff here in that segment?

[Aaron]

Almost nobody builds stuff here. It's all assembled here.

[Jamie]

Yep.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And so they have plants here. It's assembly typically.

[Jamie]

Great. So now what means they're all going to get hit with tariffs? Well, I mean, I know the prevailing feeling is that all the OEMs make a ton of money, but having sat on that side and still on that side, but having sat on that side, the margin isn't there to consume a 10%, 10, 20% tariff. It's just not there. And so you have one option. Raise prices. Now what? And so then everybody goes, oh, who's first?

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

And so you're kind of in that zone. As of yesterday. You're kind of in that zone. And I think we've even as from a supplier standpoint, I mean, if you look at the suppliers of electric motors and pumps and all that kind of Stuff. They have foreseen this coming, too. And they've sent out flares, shot flares up, saying this, and that's coming. Anyway, it's an interesting time, right, when you look at this scenario. It's an interesting time as a. As a manufacturer here. So then. So I believe. I believe you're about to see a run, speaking of four years, you're about to see a run of built or manufactured in America.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

And so all of these manufacturers are in a. I believe are in a mode of. Oh, if I'm assembling here, how fast can we start manufacturing here?

[Aaron]

And that. And that's what I'm interested about because, like, regardless of what happens here, from a federal spending, infrastructure, spending standpoint, that money's locked in, it's appropriated. It's being dispersed.

[Jamie]

Is it.

[Aaron]

Well, is it even?

[Jamie]

Iija, they did try to pause it.

[Aaron]

Yes, they did try to pause it. But in theory, it goes through 28, 29 into 30, even, because they're not gonna get the work done in the time they need to get done. Not a fucking chance.

[Jamie]

I towed that line for years, by the way. I agree with you. I'm not sure how much makes it, but there will be a substantial amount of money allocated. It's still earmarked. Yes, I agree with you.

[Aaron]

Going. Yeah, yeah, they just. They just can't. The capacity is not there. They can't. They just can't do the work.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

So. So that's humming along. That's. That's still going. Regardless of what goes on, which is interesting, you still have a shortage in housing in a lot of markets, which is quite interesting. You have this crazy investment in this, in chip plants, AI plants or AI data centers. Data centers just in general, et cetera. That's like just astronomical stuff.

[Jamie]

Amazon data centers going up everywhere.

[Aaron]

Yeah, I mean, but like TSMC, like, yeah, we'll spend $150 billion eventually on this place. Like, what? $150 billion in some patch of desert in Arizona. It's wild. If they had said five, like, 10 years ago, $5 billion. Everybody be like, what? $5 billion? That's crazy. Now, like, no, no. 150 billion. Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah, right on. Everybody's like, yeah, yeah. It's just business as usual. I'm like, and then now you have the whole specter, in some ways, of, like, who starts building manufacturing here? And it's already happening. Automotive's spent a lot of money on some of the wrong things, in my opinion, with the. The experimental things that they've been, they've been working with. But they can retool that manufacturing capacity. You've got Boeing expanding in South Carolina. You've got Airbus expanding in Alabama.

[Jamie]

Like, you've got, you've got the scout facility.

[Aaron]

Scout. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's automotive plant. And you've got, you know, Ford out in Memphis. And you could go down the list these steel plants that have been. That have been coming together over the past five, 10, 15 years. And so I just, I'm really curious to see what kind of like it's possible there's an even bigger demand for infrastructure over the next decade, if this pans out, which is quite interesting.

[Jamie]

If we do it right.

[Aaron]

Yeah, if we do it right.

[Jamie]

Yeah, yeah. It's an interesting time for sure.

[Aaron]

You just need to worry about the bridges, though.

[Jamie]

Well, yeah, sure.

[Aaron]

Bridge money's there, so.

[Jamie]

And it, and it. I mean, it's. Even if they, even if they take it away, it's happening one way or the other.

[Aaron]

Well. And the bridges are there regardless. Yes.

[Jamie]

So it's happening one way or the other. Right. So I do feel like, from what I've heard just anecdotally getting involved in this market, that the government, you know, they've been there is a focused or a concentrated effort on improving the bridge side. Right. And so the infrastructure programs that we have do have segments specifically earmarked for this segment, which is one of the reasons that I've, you know, like, this is great, a great chance, a great opportunity for me to do this because it is tied to all of that. Right. You can, you know, there's literally funds allocated to doing what we do.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

I mean, it's a great spot to be in.

[Aaron]

Oh, it's a phenomenal spot to be in. Yeah. You're making stuff in America.

[Jamie]

Yes.

[Aaron]

You're helping to ensure successful bridges for America. Yeah, that's a good spot to be in.

[Jamie]

Yeah. I met with Governor McMaster a couple months ago and he's pretty happy with us, I bet.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Yeah, I bet.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

You're in a great spot. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to be the darling. The darling here pretty soon.

[Jamie]

Right? Yeah. We need to expand the facility already. You know, we need to add capacity and, you know, planning to expand the facility. You know, and so I think we fall into what they call the. The i77 manufacturing corridor or high tech manufacturing corridor in South Carolina. And, and there's funds earmarked for that kind of stuff, obviously. Right. As part of this, this administration.

[Aaron]

Well, South Carolina has been one of the most bullish states on manufacturing and building stuff. It's crazy how much investment. Investments down there.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And then you've got the port right there.

[Jamie]

But that's. Right.

[Aaron]

That's more, you know, problematic nowadays.

[Jamie]

Yeah, right.

[Aaron]

Stuff coming in, not going out.

[Jamie]

Yes, it works. Yeah, yeah. I. Yes, it. That is its own. We could spend an episode talking about that in general. Just. Just. I told you, one day we. We all showed up in the office and our brokers called us and said, yeah, effective tomorrow, any boat that comes with a container that's actually connected to China, if the main. If the container was actually manufactured in China, it now has a tariff on it. We're like, wait, what? What if the goods aren't from China? They're like, doesn't matter. The boat, the container has a tariff on it. How did that happen? But anyway.

[Aaron]

Well, only time will tell.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Right on. Well, I'm. Yeah, like I said, just super excited about the next venture. I'm excited to follow along. I'm glad you came here when you did. A month into the new.

[Jamie]

Yeah, we'll have you out. We'll schedule some time. I'd like to. If it's good for you to do both, I'd like to have you out to see the place and to hang around on the test bridge just to see how it works there and see what we do, you know, how we test every machine. But then we can have you out to, like, you know, Hampton Road. Hampton Roads or something like that. And.

[Aaron]

Yeah, getting it out and seeing it.

[Jamie]

Have you hang on the side of a bridge.

[Aaron]

No, that'd be. That'd be. That'd be fun. I'd really enjoy that. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thanks for coming. Great to see you.

[Jamie]

You too. I appreciate the time.

[Aaron]

And we'll see you when we're hanging off a bridge.

[Jamie]

Yes. Let me know if you ever want to do it again.

[Aaron]

Sounds good. Sweet.