Michele & Mike O’Rourke of O’Rourke Wrecking — DT 400

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dirt Talk by BuildWitt – Episode 400

Guests: Michelle & Mike O’Rourke, O’Rourke Wrecking
Host: Aaron Witt
Release Date: December 18, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this landmark 400th episode of Dirt Talk, Aaron Witt sits down with Michelle and Mike O’Rourke, the husband-and-wife team at the helm of Cincinnati-based O’Rourke Wrecking Company. The conversation spans the company’s roots, their succession story, the dynamics of leading a demolition business as a couple, evolving roles, the underestimated power of women in construction, workforce development, and the art and business of demolition. The O’Rourkes speak candidly about challenges, lessons learned, and the significance of grit, adaptability, and mentorship in the Dirt World.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Company Origins and Demolition Roots

• Founding Story:
  • O’Rourke Wrecking was founded in 1962 by Mike’s father, Pat, at age 20.
    • “He founded the company in 1962 at the ripe old age of 20.” — Mike (01:14)
  • Pat’s impetus: hardship after the family homebuilding business failed. He left school at 16 to support his siblings, eventually buying a front-end loader and starting out charging $11/hour for excavation work.
  • Transitioned from residential excavation to demolition after seeing opportunity in the redevelopment of Cincinnati’s riverfront.

2. Taking Over the Business: A Season of Crisis and Adaptation

• Sudden Succession:

  • Pat O’Rourke passed away unexpectedly in 1994 at age 52.
  • Mike (age 26) had always worked at the family company; Michelle was in pharmaceutical sales.
  • No succession plan existed, and the couple was suddenly running the business together, newly married and under pressure.
    • “We were fighting for our life, so to speak, because my dad had a lot of other business interests... we divested... except for the construction and demolition business.” — Mike (08:21)
    • “I saw the writing on the wall with Mike... either we were going to be divorced or this man needs help.” — Michelle (11:06)

• Michelle’s Transition:

  • Left her sales career, brought analytical and sales skills to the firm, and quickly took over billing and collections—a crucial need.
    • “They weren’t collecting money... I can do this. And so I just took it over.” — Michelle (13:23)

3. Leadership & Evolving Roles: Partnership in Life and Business

• Division of Labor & Respect:

  • Michelle gradually became an indispensable operational leader, especially managing cash flow and administration in tough years following Pat’s death.
  • She faced challenges being the “new wife” in a traditional business setting; respect was earned by doing “whatever it took” and learning on the job.
  • The couple worked side-by-side, with Michelle handling the “back of the house” and Mike focusing on bidding and operations.
    • “That's how you earn respect.” — Michelle (16:29)

• Rising to Leadership:

  • Michelle formally took on the CEO role in 2019, though she had already shouldered many responsibilities.
  • Title change increased visibility and influence, allowing her to join external boards and advocate for industry causes.
    • “Internally, all we said was, hey, we're gonna make this little tweak... You are now the face of the business.” — Mike (28:16)
    • “By having a title, allowed me to get on boards and I'm a big advocate for workforce development and community service.” — Michelle (27:51)

4. Women in Demolition and Construction

• Breaking Barriers:

  • Michelle notes the industry’s slow pace accepting women, especially in leadership—even in administrative or client-facing roles.
    • “There’s a need for strong mentorship of women. There's just not a lot of women C-suite leaders.” — Michelle (33:10)
  • Michelle mentors younger women, stressing authenticity and leveraging being underestimated:
    • “Being underestimated is a good thing... Use it to your advantage.” — Michelle (38:55)
  • Discussion of the evolving culture: from openly sexist environments to gradual acceptance and the importance of representation.

• Workforce Diversity:

  • O’Rourke Wrecking has mentored and advanced female project managers and co-ops.
  • Women bring vital detail orientation and emotional intelligence to the office and workplace.
    • “The social intelligence of Michelle and the other women we have is just different.” — Mike (20:26)

5. Sustainability & Community Impact

• Sustainable Demolition Practices:

  • Michelle described community service tied to demolition projects, such as tire amnesty days in under-served neighborhoods.
    • “We removed 2,500 tires… The biggest thing was a grassroots organization called and said, ‘How did you do that? Can you help us?’” — Michelle (46:22)
  • Spillover effects: O’Rourke’s efforts inspired monthly community clean-up events and broadened impact beyond traditional fundraising.

• Wellbeing Initiatives:

  • Proactive health measures, like placing a blood pressure kiosk on projects, have directly affected workers’ lives (identifying high blood pressure, connecting employees to doctors).
    • “We've helped five trades people identified with high blood pressure and they're getting help.” — Michelle (51:06)
  • Commitment to holistic sustainability—physical health, mental health, and community engagement.
    • “If you want to sustain your workforce, you got [to]… biggest asset.” — Michelle (55:06)

6. Changing Industry and Company Culture

• Demolition as Both Art and Science:

  • Every site is unique, with unknowns and constraints, requiring creative problem-solving—what the O’Rourkes call “demolition as art.”
    • “It's more of an art than a science. That's what makes it so interesting and challenging every day.” — Mike (43:01)
  • Projects highlighted: Demolition of Riverfront Stadium and the upcoming Crossley Tower project.

• Labor, Mentorship, and Generational Shift:

  • Emphasis on mentorship for new employees (“the O’Rourke way”), teaching reliability and work ethic.
    • “When you mentor someone that's teaching them a skill set, teaching them a trade.” — Mike (77:05)
  • Labor market is more competitive; treating teams exceptionally well and building camaraderie are priorities.
    • “I don't want to be known as the guy who treats people fair. I want to be known as the guy who treats people well.” — Mike (71:54)

• Adapting to Technology and Market Change:

  • Rise of rental equipment and new tech has lowered barriers to entry, which the O’Rourkes feel has “watered down the talent pool” and posed insurance and quality concerns.
    • “The invention of the High Reach excavator has watered down the talent pool because… it is much safer... But… now all of a sudden, you get people who are chasing projects.” — Mike (70:03)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On sudden responsibility:

  • "When my dad passed away, it was obviously a pretty tough time. I was 26 years old. There was no succession planning." — Mike (06:29; 07:22)

• On grit and humility:

  • "There was nothing that we wouldn't do... That's how you build respect with people. And, quite frankly, that's how you get the job done." — Mike (16:26)

• On being underestimated as a woman:

  • "Being underestimated is a good thing. Don't get insulted. Use it to your advantage." — Michelle (38:55)

• On mentorship:

  • "When you mentor someone, that's teaching them a skill set, teaching them a trade... And they have to be coachable." — Mike (77:05)

• On leadership transition:

  • “Internally, all we said was, hey, we're gonna make this little tweak... You are now the face of the business... she did so much behind the scenes.” — Mike (28:16)

• On couple dynamics in business:

  • “It grew organically... we've known each other… since we were kids and we've been through a ton together.” — Mike (63:20, 67:34)
  • "We're really best friends. I know that's a cliché, but we really are." — Mike (67:11)
  • "We couldn't have children. So, you know, we wound up burying ourselves in work." — Mike (63:17)

• On the evolving role of demolition:

  • "It's more of an art than a science... Every project is different." — Mike (43:01)

• On workforce challenges:

  • "If you don't have the people, you are going nowhere... you can buy all the equipment in the world." — Mike (72:48)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:11] – Founding of O'Rourke Wrecking, family history
• [06:23] – Pat O'Rourke's passing; succession crisis
• [08:49] – Michelle’s entry into the business
• [13:36] – Michelle’s transition and initial challenges
• [24:36] – Riverfront Stadium implosion, company milestone
• [26:02] – Michelle's growing leadership role (2012, then 2019, CEO)
• [32:10] – Mentorship, women in demolition and evolving industry
• [38:39] – The power of being underestimated
• [46:19] – Community sustainability efforts (Tire Amnesty event)
• [51:06] – Health initiatives on demolition sites
• [55:06] – Prioritizing and sustaining the workforce
• [61:11] – Working together as a couple: challenges and rewards
• [69:16] – Sacrifice and competitiveness in the demolition business
• [70:03] – Technology’s impact on the industry
• [71:54] – Culture: treating people well, not just fairly
• [74:15] – Mentorship and generational integration
• [81:17] – Upcoming project: Crossley Tower at UC

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Tone and Style

The conversation is candid, direct, and often humorous, trading stories with authenticity and a clear sense of teamwork and humility. Both O’Rourkes emphasize resilience, ethics, and continual learning—while openly acknowledging ongoing challenges in both business and culture. Aaron’s tone is curious and affirming, drawing out advice and insight to benefit leaders and young professionals alike in the Dirt World.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a detailed, human perspective on family business transition, leadership, and advancing diversity in construction. The O’Rourkes embody grit and adaptability, showing that strong partnership, adaptability, transparency, and humility are essential—in demolition, in business, and in life. From surviving sudden tragedy to reshaping a legacy company for the future, their story is a template and inspiration for the next generation.

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Listen to the full episode for rich stories of the Dirt World, the art of demolition, and how true partnership makes all the difference.

Transcript

[Aaron]

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Dirt Talk podcast. This episode, Dirt Talk 400, is with Michelle and Mike O' Rourke of O' Rourke Wrecking. Michelle and Mike lead O' Rourke Wrecking Company, a Cincinnati based demolition operation with a long history of challenging projects across Ohio and beyond. As a husband and wife who took over the business unexpectedly, decades ago, they've worked together to not only grow the company, but the demolition industry as a whole. I have been hounding Michelle to come on the podcast for maybe two years now, and I have also been hounding Michelle to bring Mike along, but it's tricky. They're hard to pin down. However, fortunately, they were both here for a recent demolition event in Nashville, and I got them both in the room to talk about their story with, which is fantastic. So sit back, enjoy. Here is Michel and Mike o'. Rourke. When did. When did the company start?

[Mike O'Rourke]

He founded the company in 1962.

[Aaron]

Okay, 62.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yes. At the ripe old age of 20 years old.

[Aaron]

Okay.

[Mike O'Rourke]

My dad did. Yeah.

[Aaron]

And with like a pickup truck.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Not even a pickup truck. He. Well, his story is an interesting one, actually, if you would like me to.

[Aaron]

Tell about it, please.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. So it's the kind of the roots of the company. My dad, actually my grandfather was a home builder, and in the 50s, he ran into business problems. And back then, home building, they. They didn't subcontract everything. That was a time where you employed your own bricklayers, your plasterers, concrete people, and home builders, a lot of times own their own heavy equipment. My grandfather was that type of builder. He ran into some business problems in the 50s and wound up losing his business. And my dad would always talk about how they came and repossessed the heavy equipment. And the. That is kind of a scar that he carried with him throughout his life. So when he was 16 years old, he dropped out of high school and went to work to help support his six siblings. He came from a family of seven, so he had a pretty tough start. He ultimately went to work for his cousins, which were some of the largest home builders in Cincinnati. And they're in. The home building company doesn't exist, but they are still in other businesses. So anyway, he was a superintendent building residential homes for his cousins. And then when he was 20 years old, so, I mean, all this happened, he turns 20 years old, and I think everybody in their life who has cousins, he had a cousin that he was close to. A lot of people have the one cousin who's kind of close in age to him. Well, in my dad's Case it was a fellow by the name of Neil Hendy who is actually still alive. And he said to Neil, who he was working for, he was employed by Neil Hendy. He's. He said, Neil, you know, I want to buy that front end loader from you and I want to do all your excavation work. And Neil, who was very close to my dad, said, my dad's name was Pat. He said, patrick, I think you have a hole in your head for wanting to do that, but if you want to buy that loader, I'll sell it to you. And he did. My dad went to the, to a bank and at 20 years old, he lied about his age and told the BANKER he was 21, of course, and which you could do in 1961 or whatever it was. The guy took his word for it. And so he bought an International 175 loader with a four in one bucket, no ROPS. And I remember that loader is a very young kid. We had it a long time. We unfortunately we sold it. I don't know what happened to such a bummer. It is, but it was a, you know, very small loader. And the thing about the story that I find the most fascinating is, is that, you know, my dad was a one man band getting started. And for my father in the seat of that loader, he charged $11 an hour. That's what his first time a material rate was. You know, it's different time.

[Aaron]

It's incredible.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah, it is. It's very humble beginnings. But yeah. So my dad, you know, was doing residential excavation work and then is the 60s drug on in Cincinnati at the time. If you're from Cincinnati, the area right along the river that was developed for, for what was then Riverfront stadium on all that riverfront was called the Bottoms. If you're from Cincinnati in that era, they refer to it as the Bottoms. And it was really full of. Cincinnati is a river town. It was full of buildings that received freight coming from riverboats and flat bottom boats and things like that from a time gone by. They were demolishing all those buildings in the late 60s to make way for Riverfront Stadium. And every Wednesday at noon, the city of Cincinnati had a demolition bid opening. And it was the wintertime and my dad was observing all of what was going on and he thought to himself, wow, that'd be a good way to keep our equipment busy in the wintertime. He said, you know, I think I could probably do that. So he started very, you know, very small, trying to bid demolition work. And you Know, long story short, that became our core business.

[Aaron]

How about that?

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Is it? You all wrecked a stadium at some point, didn't you?

[Mike O'Rourke]

We did. We demolished Riverfront Stadium.

[Aaron]

So you. You did. It was the stadium that they built.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Right, Right. Yeah, we actually plowed that ground twice, as they say now.

[Aaron]

That's.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah, it was a circle. It was, it was. And that, that the interesting thing about that job, you know, Riverfront State, of course, was iconic space, especially if you're a Cincinnati sports fan. You know, the Big Red machine played there and all those, all those great memories. But for us, for Michelle and I being in the demolition business, you know, that was a really. A turning point in our company.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Mike O'Rourke]

My father.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

You should tell the story about when your dad passed.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah, so my dad passed away at the ripe old age of 52.

[Aaron]

Real.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. So I've now outlived him five years.

[Aaron]

What year was this?

[Mike O'Rourke]

So my dad passed in the summer of 1994.

[Aaron]

Okay.

[Mike O'Rourke]

And you know, it was a. It was obviously a very tough time. I was 26 years old.

[Aaron]

Were you working at the business at the time?

[Mike O'Rourke]

I've never worked anywhere else. Yeah. So I. I had been. I graduated from college in 90, so. But I worked, you know, when I was 10 years old, I was on job sites. So all my entire life I've spent at O' Rourke in. And yeah, it's just, you know, now 40 years. More than 40 years. Really. Now I hate to even.

[Aaron]

You've never had a resume, huh?

[Mike O'Rourke]

No, no. Whatever Michelle put together for me, you know, pre qualification. Whatever Michelle put together for me. But yeah. So, you know, when my dad passed away, it was obviously a pretty tough time. I was 26 years old.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

There was no succession planning is.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Right.

[Aaron]

Well that. But you wouldn't know needed at that point. There was no need.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. Well, you know, he had gotten sick. He passed away from a form of leukemia and it was a tough time. And Michelle was a pharmaceutical sales rep and she did that for about a year and a half. Was making great money.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Okay. So you were married at this time?

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah, yeah, we were just newly married. We started dating in high school. So we've been together for a long, long time. Sure.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

And spent my fair share of site visits with you at 16.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Right. I'm a hopeless romantic, Aaron. Those are our dates. I would take her.

[Aaron]

Nothing more romantic. Yeah, I know.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Pater and take you to pizza and. Yeah.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

If we can just estimate this.

[Mike O'Rourke]

You don't mind going to this bad neighborhood with me to look at this building? We have to demolish. Then I'll take you to get the pizza. How about that?

[Aaron]

Well, it worked.

[Mike O'Rourke]

And she fell for.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

It's what got me into demolition.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. Correct.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Can't be.

[Mike O'Rourke]

But yeah. So that, that was a. Obviously a. A time in our life that we were fighting for our life, so to speak, because my dad had a lot of other business interests that he was a serial entrepreneur and got involved in a lot of different things that at 26, I was not prepared to deal with. So we divested ourselves of a lot of business interests except for the construction and demolition business.

[Aaron]

Did you have siblings involved in the business, too?

[Mike O'Rourke]

So I have one older sister and she's really not worked in the business. You know, she's.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

She was the smart one.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Get me out of this.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. She has, you know, two wonderful boys who are nephews, who we're close to. But, you know, it was really Michelle and I sort of.

[Aaron]

So, yeah. It was on your shoulders.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, a lot of. A lot of people looking at me to, you know, to. To make the right decisions and what are we going to do? And, you know, when you're 26, you just don't have all those answers, you know, quite honestly.

[Aaron]

But. And you, Randy, who's CEO of our company now, I think his father passed away at 26. When he was 26. And he. And he took over the business. Yeah.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Randy and I have a really terrible thing in common.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it's terrible, but you don't have time to process it, I guess. I have lived through it, you tell me. But. Yeah, you. You can't really mourn.

[Mike O'Rourke]

No.

[Aaron]

Right.

[Mike O'Rourke]

I mean, you're only 30 years old, so I hope you still have your dad, but. No, you don't.

[Aaron]

But you gotta get. You've got to get on with it.

[Mike O'Rourke]

You. You are, unfortunately, you couldn't be any more correct because I find myself, you know, what has it been now, 32, 32 years? I still find myself processing a little bit. You know what I mean? It's just not something that you can stop and go to grief counseling and all those types of things that you should do because the world is moving fast. And the construction industry, as you know, is extremely dynamic. It never stops. You're worried about getting work or getting work done. The banks, the weather, meeting with the bonding company. You're dealing with an employee issue or someone's got a problem. You know, it's just. It's constant. So Michelle and I have been a great team for a long time, and yeah.

[Aaron]

So you, so you're 26, newly married, and so you've been involved in the business essentially the whole time too, or were you working somewhere else for a while?

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I was working for about a year and a half in pharmaceutical sales. My background is pre med medical. I wanted to be a doctor.

[Aaron]

You went totally wrong.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

But who really plans, right?

[Mike O'Rourke]

You never know where life's going to take you.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

You don't. But I quit my job cold turkey because I saw the writing on the wall with Mike. We were ships passing in the night. I mean, I was entertaining doctors at night, symposiums, traveling a ton, and he was working ungodly hours, as you can imagine. The one thing I wanted to say is Mike's father, Pat, did not like demolition. It was like the redheaded stepchild, but that's the one that paid the bills.

[Aaron]

Okay.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

He was a serial entrepreneur, I would say he. Development.

[Mike O'Rourke]

He liked it, he liked the business. But he, yeah, he, you know, as I mentioned, my grandfather was a builder.

[Aaron]

Yes, he liked the builders and he wanted to build.

[Mike O'Rourke]

He wanted to build and develop and you know, and he really, that, that was kind of where he came from. But thank God. And to his credit, he kept me in the demolition portion of the business. And really that's where I cut my teeth, so to speak. And thank God, because when he passed away, we really, I guess, narrowed the focus of the company down to demolition and environmental work. And we always did site work and utility installation and all those things. But we, we decided, hey, really, I decided that we're going to be a nuts and bolts demolition contractor. For better or for worse, that's what we are. And that was really kind of a game changing decision.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Right. And to your dad's credit, which I thought he was just really hard on Mike. He was just a hardcore old school kind of guy. He made Mike work full time during college, but he had it. Mike's like, why do I need to stay in college if I'm just going to work here? And he's like, nope, you're going to get your degree. I never had that. And you're going to work full time.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

So. And then also dating me. So that's why I spent a lot of time on jobs with Mike if I wanted to see him.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

But I did quit my job. I'm going to circle back. I quit my job cold turkey because I saw the writing on the wall and knew either we were going to be divorced or this man needs help. And so I just started going into the office. I just listened I fought whatever it took, you know, whatever I could hear going on, I did. And one thing I noticed is that they weren't collecting money. And it was over stupid stuff. Like, they didn't. They missed the bill date. They wasn't signed. They didn't fill out the proper lien waivers. Just really, really silly stuff. And I'm like, I can do this. And so I just took it over.

[Aaron]

Was it pretty natural for you to quit? Was it a hard decision?

[Michelle O'Rourke]

It was terribly hard.

[Aaron]

Was it?

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Okay.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Terribly hard.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Agonizing. Because Michelle, you know, it's. It's just so interesting, you know, when I. Again, I'm not the kind of person that reflects on these things very often. I'm usually onto the next job, which is how I was trained by my father. You know, you execute and you move to the next one. But, you know, I think about it, you know, Michelle's been so important to the business, you know, to have her. Her perspective. You know, I mean, just. There's a million things. But the one that springs to mind is the sales training she was given in the pharmaceutical industry and dealing with, you know, she would have to go talk to a brain surgeon about prescribing her drug. Sure. You know, I mean, you talk about a tough, tough client to sell to. And so she brought a lot of that with her to our company. And it was invaluable, you know, just to get someone else's perspective, you know, Again, I haven't worked in there since I, you know, could walk. So to have someone else's perspective really meant a lot.

[Aaron]

So was that. Is that kind of what happened with splitting of duties a little bit? You started to take care of office business development, make sure the business.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

We're skipping about two decades in there. A decade in there. I had to overcome some strong personalities. Remember, I'm the new wife.

[Aaron]

I can imagine that is just.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And you're in your 20s, and I'm.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

In my 20s, and I have a, you know, a shiny degree. So think about that. I was.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah, there was a lot of.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

There's a lot of animosity with certain employees, especially women, you know, that had been there a long, long time.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Sure.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

So I just did what I just did. I wasn't allowed to shine until later, but I didn't care. I learned I did anything. Like, I just. I saw little mini fires and I thought, I'm doing. I'm. I became Mike's, like, wall. I just kind of saw.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. I mean, that's the thing about, you know, We, Michelle and I, are not afraid to work. I mean, that's. You know, she is the hardest working person I've ever met. And I've met some hardworking people, and, you know, just. There's not too many. I was. I got lucky. You know, when you meet somebody. I was 17, she was 15. We got lucky that our relationship has lasted and we were able to work together, and we're good business partners. But one of the, you know, is. Don't get me wrong, we have some days, but the one thing that is so good about us is that we have a strong work ethic between us and we're not afraid to do anything. You know, there's a lot of days. I mean, Michelle's cleaning the bathrooms.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Not anymore.

[Aaron]

Not anymore.

[Mike O'Rourke]

But, I mean.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

But, you know, that's whatever it took. You know, whatever it took to get things done. There was no job.

[Mike O'Rourke]

There was nothing that we wouldn't do.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Right.

[Mike O'Rourke]

And I was the same way.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

And that's how you earn respect.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Correct. I mean, if our. If we had a job working and I happened to be on the job, and if, you know, they needed help moving plywood or setting up fence, I'd help them, you know, and that does. That's. That's how you build respect with people. And quite frankly, that's how you get the job done. And Michelle, you know, we both have strong backs and that. That really.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I think we come from backgrounds where we just. Yeah. Didn't have, like, the easiest of childhood. So I think that gives you grit and credibility and. And that's also 30 years ago. And I think times have changed a lot. You know, some of these characters that we had to deal with are. They're. They're. To me, either it's just because I'm older, but they're just easier to deal with. You know, that's more predictable for me. But, you know, navigating that whole political system within side o' Rourke and where my place was, I found it really fast. It was just to do whatever it took, whatever anybody asked me, and just learn along the way, ask questions and support Mike any way I could. Because Mike, I wanted him out in the front bidding work, running the team operations, and I was the back of the house, making sure that money's coming in so we can keep doing what we're doing. Because I think a lot of contractors fail. They are excellent at executing work, but they're terrible at invoicing and collecting money. And that's the biggest downfall. So that's where I really stayed sure. For us in accounting for a solid decade, making sure, you know, that we had everything but that and the pre.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Qualification, that was a critical time period for us because, you know, as I said, my. My dad had passed away. We were, you know, fighting on a lot of fronts, I would say. And, you know, you know, Michelle really managed our cash flow and made sure.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

That we were change orders.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah, we were whatever. Right. Contractually. Contractually that we were covered. We were getting change orders for anything that we were doing extra. We were collecting money. I mean, that's really permits, you know, so jobs weren't being held up, you know, utility shutdowns.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yeah, no one wanted to do utilities.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. So, I mean, Michelle really had pre qualifications.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

It just evolved.

[Mike O'Rourke]

She just did a lot of different things inside the business that was critical, especially during those early days, to keep us moving. And, you know, I don't know. Again, I haven't thought about that stuff in a long time.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I haven't either.

[Aaron]

So the top question I'm asked is, what does Bill Witt do? Our purpose is to build the dirt world's next generation. The dirt world is the companies and people building the critical infrastructure and supporting the those who build our critical infrastructure that we need to live the lives that we do. Our business is much bigger than me. I run around the world building our brand. But the business itself does two things. One, we help develop the next generation through our product called billwhit Improve. It's a daily training and development platform at about 300 civil construction companies are using to not just make their people better workers, but. But better people. And of course, we have the 2026 ARIAT dirtworld summit. The best opportunity to develop yourself and your teams as leaders. So check us out. Billwhit.com, book a meeting with us and we'll talk to you soon. I talk to a lot of people, like about the topic of women in construction, for example, and everybody talks about women in the field. It's like, yeah, that's great. But let's start with women in the office. Because the whole industry doesn't work without women in the office making it happen, making sure everybody's paid, making sure equipment's where it needs to be, permits are where they need to be, lawyers are handled. Insurance is like, thank you, Aaron.

[Mike O'Rourke]

That's the truth. I'll tell you something else.

[Aaron]

It wouldn't work.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

It wouldn't work.

[Mike O'Rourke]

The social intelligence of Michelle and the other women that we have is just different. I have one story I always tell again, we're husband and wife. We work together. We don't have children. You know, the business is like our child. And the people that work.

[Aaron]

You have a lot of children, our.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Family, you know, so, you know, Michelle's very in tune with the people that work there. And she came into my office one morning and said, hey, what's. What's wrong with Joe? I said, he's fine. I don't know. What do you mean? No, no, something's wrong with Joe. Have you talked to him? I said, yeah, just talk to him. He's great. Nothing wrong with him. And she's like, you're such an idiot. You can't tell that there's something wrong with him. I'm like, he's fine. She's like, call him into your office now and talk to him and see what's wrong. I'm like, whatever. Okay, so I came, you know. Hey, come on in here. Hey, buddy. You doing okay? What's going. Oh, man, Mike, I just can't believe it, you know, just break down in my office. He was having some personal issues. Whatever. I was like, yay. Sold pizza. She's like, how did you know that he was having problems? Like, how did you not know? You know, I don't know. I'm just working, you know, it's just.

[Aaron]

Your head's in the sand. Well, you know, you're a man. That's what I do.

[Mike O'Rourke]

You're working on business problems, not emotional, personal things. And that's why you just need.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

You know, women are very good at that.

[Aaron]

Yeah, Very good at that.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Especially for mental health. You know, just. I can read body language like you wouldn't believe. I can tell when someone doesn't feel well, something's off. And I ask them, like, you doing okay? And they're always, yeah, like, I'm like, you sure? And then, you know, usually find out, and then you can help them, you know, before it becomes a big problem.

[Aaron]

So at what point did you become a bigger part of the business?

[Michelle O'Rourke]

So, gosh, you mean in terms of my role evolving?

[Mike O'Rourke]

Sure.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I think I had to do just about every job, including. And I was in the field, like for Synergy Field. I remember it was every man and woman.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Synergy Field is what?

[Michelle O'Rourke]

River, sorry, Riverfront Stadium.

[Aaron]

That was the stadium.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

What year was that? That wasn't. That was a while.

[Mike O'Rourke]

So we were awarded the job late in 99. It was a three phase project. And because I'm, you know, was a big Reds and Bengals fan, of course. So that was like. It was a big deal to get that job for us. But we started in August of 2000. Geez, Pete, I can't believe it's that long. And there was a couple of phases. We took down a portion of the parking garage so they could build what is now Great American Ballpark, which almost butted up against the old stadium that we were demolishing. That was phase one. Phase two, we did the Bite, as they call it, which essentially we took from straightaway center field to the left field foul pole out, which is about 25% because it was a big. We cut a pie piece out of the.

[Aaron]

Sure. Out of it. Yeah.

[Mike O'Rourke]

It was a big circle, right. And then on. I'll never forget it. On December 29, 2002, we imploded Riverfront Stadium. But the key thing about that job was, is that when we got it, my dad had been gone about five years. And, you know, when the. We're a well known company in our area, but my dad was well known. So when a founder passes away really unexpectedly, there's a lot of questions. You know, your clients are like, you know, is it really the same team? Can these people, you know, what. What can these people really do? And, you know, we fought that for five years. And when we got the stadium and executed it in an extremely high level, that was a game changer. It said, hey, not only is there a hell of a group of people left behind there who can really execute work at a high level, they're even better than before. And that's what it said to the construction industry in our area. And it really, I don't know, kind of, I don't know, reset the course of the company in some ways. I don't know, Michelle, do you.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I don't know for sure. When one of our main clients stood next to you and said, you know, Mike, if this implosion doesn't go well, we can never use you. And probably half the world won't either, because everyone's gonna be watching it. Talk about the pressure. So I knew we had made it. When that went down perfectly.

[Aaron]

Yeah, that was. It was by far the biggest job you'd ever done at the time. I mean, a stadium's.

[Mike O'Rourke]

It was certainly the biggest job since my dad had passed. Most high profile, 100%.

[Aaron]

Because that's national news when you're imploding.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Correct.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

But it was better.

[Mike O'Rourke]

It was a little different time then, you know, because, you know, it's not. You know, everybody wasn't walking around with a phone. That news popped up on it every 30 seconds. And everything Else it was, you know, the information didn't travel at the rate of speed that it does today. However, it was a huge deal in our area, and that, you know, we were right in the midst of, you know, a lot of stadia were being demolished during that time period, you know, and you're going to have one here in Nashville very soon. And we've been involved with several of them, but that was in our hometown. And, yeah, to Michelle's point, we had a lot of clients. One particular guy who remained nameless said, hey, Mike, you know, I'd love to come down there and watch that. It'd be a cool thing to see. We love working with you guys, but if something goes wrong, we can never use you. Like, okay, well, come on down. That'd be great.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

No, but you asked me when did I really. My role kind of advanced. And I'm thinking back, because you're just always so busy. I'd say 2012 is when I started really moving into more of a leadership role within o'. Rourke. You know, it's right after one of the main ladies pets. Right hand lady.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. So if you think about that, Michelle, she started in 1993, so 17 years of. You know, she had been in a rook 17 years before she really took a major step. That's crazy. Yeah.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Because I. That's how I've always. That's how I've always known you, because I started doing this in 2017. So you've been in that position, which.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Feels like yesterday to us.

[Aaron]

Yeah, Yeah, I know, I know. I know. I. I know when I. I talk about, yeah, I've been doing this for eight years, everybody's like, wow, congratulations.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

But that's how. That's how I've always known you. And then when I was out there a few years ago, met you.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Right.

[Aaron]

But I've never really heard the story. I didn't know how it all.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Oh, there's some good stuff.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Oh, yeah, there's. Yeah, right. We'd be here a long time, and we probably could use a couple of cocktails and really get into some stuff for you.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I will tell you, though, Mike had been at the helm as president, CEO for a very long time. And in 19, that's where we kind of divided and conquered. He realized, boy, you have certain skill set that is just great for the company. I have a certain skill set that's great. And that's what we did. And I became CEO, and it really allowed me. It was just a title, honestly, because I was still doing it I was already doing it for so long, you know, just nobody. When you get a title, it's amazing how people are like, oh, you know, it's like, it's been me. I've been doing this.

[Mike O'Rourke]

It's just so funny.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

It is so funny. But it allowed me, you know, by having a title of a CEO, allowed me to get on boards. And I'm a big, you know, big advocate for workforce development and community service.

[Aaron]

And so that was 2019.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And you.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I mean, January 2019, it's.

[Aaron]

It's really made you the face of the business publicly in a lot of ways. Because. Because of that.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

And Mike does not want to be the face of the business.

[Aaron]

I've gathered that.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

He's a true introvert.

[Mike O'Rourke]

I mean, I. Look, I was the face of the business for a long time. And the truth of the matter is that I wish we would, because a lot to Michelle's point, her role didn't change that dramatically. Internally, all we said was, hey, we're gonna make this little tweak, and you are now the face of the business, and you are gonna be doing everything out in front. I mean, she did so much behind the scenes that. That, you know, I was a great.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Prepper, like a great number two.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Right.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Like, I had him prepared. Like, when. I mean, I was like, I wish I had a number two like Michelle, but, you know, if you had a meeting.

[Mike O'Rourke]

I am not a great number two.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

You know, like, presentations. Like, you know, I was always behind the scenes making sure everything flowed smoothly, everything was done, you know, just client relations, just kind of behind the scenes and teeing it up. But at least, you know, Mike acknowledged.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

And appreciated that.

[Aaron]

It seems like though, that it, like how you have it now is fitting of your natural skill sets, though.

[Mike O'Rourke]

110, which.

[Aaron]

Which makes everything so much better. I've learned in business in my short time, once you get someone in the right place. Like, I did this with Randy earlier this year. He became CEO running the company. Then it gave me this lane of founder, build brand, do stuff like this, et cetera, which is my skill set, how I'm most valuable. And he's a much better businessman than me. So it's, of course, give him the business to run, and then it just. It makes so much more sense. And I feel like, too, the demolition industry has changed substantially even in the past decade. We can talk about that sophistication standpoint. So it's. It's a lot less. Put a number on it, knock it down. There's pre qualifications And a lot more business development and a lot more relationships. Relationships, right.

[Mike O'Rourke]

And, you know, look, I'm not going to tell you that I am better if I'm. If I'm with a group of people, a couple people, I'm fine, you know, and I can explain a project and, you know, I've got a lot of industry knowledge. I've been doing this a long time. But going in and working the room and talking to, you know, 50 people and doing all that, yeah, I can do it. I don't love it.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yeah, he's great at it. He just. He just. He does not like it.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah, but I'm with you.

[Aaron]

That's how.

[Mike O'Rourke]

I mean, I can do it if I have to, but, you know, I've got. I always joke I have a face for radio shit a face for tv, so she should be pushed out in the front.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I'll give you an example. Like this morning we were at breakfast and, you know, it's all people from Europe over here for the world demolition Summit. And, you know, Mike is just, like, looking at his plate like, I don't want to run into anybody. Let's just have our breakfast together. And I'm. And I'm saying, oh, look, hey, hi, I'm Michelle o'. Rourke. Where are you from? And Mike's like, why? Like, that's just.

[Mike O'Rourke]

I'm trying to eat here, you know?

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Like, geez.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I just. How I am. You know what I mean? I'm just more extroverted. Mike's introverted. And Mike is very good at estimating in operations, and that's his strong suit. And.

[Aaron]

But that works really nicely.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I'm better at strategic planning.

[Mike O'Rourke]

It does. You know, I wish we would have. I wish we would have made that change, you know, a decade before we did. But, you know, that's the thing about business. And, you know, you're so, so young and you made, you know, you made the change that you did. I applaud you for that. Because, you know, sometimes the old saying, sometimes you're so close to the forest you can't see the trees. And we should have done that long before we did, but I think the.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Timing was right because it was right.

[Mike O'Rourke]

In a lot of ways.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Women in demolition, there's still few. Like, the room I was in today speaking, there were two other women, all men. So 10 years before, like, let's say it happened in 2009. I don't think, you know.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. And I will say, which is a.

[Aaron]

Fair point, there's a different world.

[Mike O'Rourke]

There's so few women. And young women especially are always asking Michelle, hey, can we have lunch? Can we. Can we talk? You know, and it's just like, it's just constant. And, you know, I kind of. I kind of feel for him because I know what Michelle's going through. And when we started, it's not like it is today. Well, you can't say that. No, that is absolutely out of bounds. You. You know it. When we started, I mean, it was not like that.

[Aaron]

Well, yeah, especially in the Rust Belt.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah, I mean, I. I remember Michelle, like her first week, she went to a bid opening on a public project.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

He sent me down and a bunch of beasts.

[Mike O'Rourke]

And these guys are like, hey, how you doing, doll face? What's going on? Who do you work for?

[Aaron]

I'm sure, you know, if you did.

[Mike O'Rourke]

That today, I mean, I can't imagine, right?

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I was like, oh, my God, what am I doing? Why am I in this business?

[Mike O'Rourke]

That was at the hospital last week.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

But no, there's a need for strong mentorship of women. You know, just. They don't. There's just not a lot of women. C suite leaders.

[Aaron]

I mean, really in construction, but yeah, like you said, demolition.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Well, I tell you what it's like to me, workforce development is so important in the trades, and this is a piece of that. You know, you have to have a differing perspective. Like I gave you the emotional intelligence example. You have to have women in this business, too. And there is a. They don't have to be swinging a sledgehammer or running a cutting torch. There is a ton of opportunity for them. We have a young female project manager. Her name is Alex Bamonte. She's unbelievable. Couple of them, you know. Yeah. I mean, you know, like, she's worked really hard. We had her as a co op. She went to Purdue University. She. She co oped with us, I believe, two or three.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Three times.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Three semesters. I can't. Yeah, those are three times. And, you know, she. She came to work and she's been learning a lot. We're putting in her in challenging positions because that's how we were trained. Baptism by fire. That's the heroic way. And, you know, it's just. I've been very impressed to see what she's been able to do. And there's, you know, women are more detail oriented a lot of ways, big time. You know what I mean?

[Aaron]

Like, yeah, we have our event in a few days. I stay out of the way.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah, yeah. Correct.

[Aaron]

We've got some people behind the scenes. They've Got it handled. I just keep out of the way. I don't get involved because they're much better at it than I'll ever be.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. Michelle's paintbrush is, like, you know, 2 millimeters wide. I got a push broom.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Mike O'Rourke]

You know, like, that's. That's about.

[Aaron]

She's. And she's got a whole bunch of different paint brushes.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah, right.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I'm.

[Mike O'Rourke]

You know, I'm broad brushing, like. All right, let's. What is it again? All right, good enough.

[Aaron]

Let's go.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

But I have to say, not having really a mentor when I was young, Mike was my mentor, you know, and he taught me. He gave me some hard advice, but good advice. One thing was, I remember having an issue with somebody at work, and he's like, listen, I can't fight your battles. You got to do it. You got to figure it out, because you'll never get credit, you know, you never get credibility. And that was the best advice he could give me within the company. You know, that was early on. He also said, I remember talking to. I think. I don't know if. Sent an email or talking to you, and you're like, michelle, men are going to glaze over really quick in this business. You need to be direct and to the point. They're not going to listen to anything you say and know what you say. Don't say something you don't know, and if you don't ask questions. So Mike was a really, really good mentor to me.

[Mike O'Rourke]

I learned that from my dad. You know, he always used his line to me, always was, don't try to be something you're not. Yeah.

[Aaron]

No.

[Mike O'Rourke]

If you don't know the answer, tell the guy you don't know the answer, but you'll get him the answer.

[Aaron]

But so many people get caught up in that, though. They. They try to be the smart one, and it's like, correct. There's so much power in being, hey, why are you doing it that way? And if you're genuine about it, like, everybody's always like, man, these. These old crusty. They won't. They won't help me out. I'm like, I haven't.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Are we allowed?

[Aaron]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike O'Rourke]

All right.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mike O'Rourke]

I can't relax. All right, so.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but. But they. They. They're like, I'm having problems with these. These older guys. I'm like, I don't. I. I've never really had that, because I just ask them questions, and they're. They're proud. They want to share what they have.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Dying to share what they have to say, and that's, you know, I will say, no offense to the, to the young folks, but the biggest piece of advice that I can give, you know, I hear the expression all the time, fake it till you make it. That is horseshit.

[Aaron]

Terrible advice.

[Mike O'Rourke]

That is the worst advice, because somebody like me, I can tell you're faking it. So all I think is you're just totally full of shit. Yeah, I'm moving to the next candidate or whatever. You know, if somebody. Oh, you know, it's like, you know, buddy, what I think is when I hear that is you don't have sense enough to tie your own shoes. I'm not hiring you. I have come from a little bit different time. I mean, all this working from home and all that horseshit. Now, that's not the way the construction industry works. You don't build buildings, you don't demolish buildings from home. You have to be. It's a rewarding career. You can be very financially successful and, you know, you can have life balance, but you're not going to have it every day.

[Aaron]

No.

[Mike O'Rourke]

You know, I hear so many. Well, I really want life balance. Well, that's fine. Yeah, you're not going to have life balance every day in this industry. It is. It's a passion that you. You either are born into or you acquire, but it is a passion.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but like, well, balance isn't in abundant supply purposes, and that's quite rare in most other careers. I think. Before we depart too far from the topic, though, have you. I'm sure it's been 30 years of being underestimated. Have you been able. Have you been able to. Well, you have given where you are now. But have you been able to utilize that to your advantage, though? Oh, because I'm sure that's a pretty big asset.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

It's like a lethal weapon.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

There's nothing better. When you walk into a room and they don't expect hardly anything from you, and then when you perform and they're like, whoa, they think I'm way smarter. It's amazing. No, I always tell young women, I'm like, being underestimated is a good thing.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Don't get insulted. Use it to your advantage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just be transparent. Be authentic. Be yourself. Ask questions. They will. If you. If you're authentic, they're happy to share. I've never had a problem when I ask questions.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Sure.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

But, yeah, always underestimate it. Always. And especially in the demolition world with. I am a believer of. I like to dress Nice. I like to wear makeup. I like to wear heels. And where I can, I do. And where I have, you know, proper PPE for my job sites. But I think that's important to attract young women into this. You know, like you said, you don't have to be slinging a sledgehammer, but we need women in our industry. There's so many career paths.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Be authentic, be yourself.

[Aaron]

But I like that. Like, absolutely. That's what you do. Like, you do dress nice, and it's not the norm. You like to dress nice.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

And I tell young women, be yourself. Like, you don't have to wear makeup, or you can if you want, you know, and that. But that gets the attention of people.

[Mike O'Rourke]

I've been in meetings.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

You know what I mean? They're like, I never even considered demolition. I just thought you had to look like a man. I'm like, oh, my God.

[Mike O'Rourke]

I've been in beatings where you can clearly see that Michelle's being under, underestimated.

[Aaron]

And I bet. And I bet still.

[Mike O'Rourke]

And I saw the fact, to be honest, it's a little entertaining because I'm just thinking, oh, man, this guy is gonna get leveled. And that's what happens, you know, it's just like.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Well, especially when you.

[Mike O'Rourke]

You walked into that one when you've.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Prepped everybody for these meetings. Like, I've been the, you know, like, behind the scenes prepping and teeing them up. And then, you know, when I'm in these meetings now, you know, it's just. It's a lot different.

[Aaron]

I bet.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

So is it from an ownership standpoint, you're both are owners of the company then.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yes.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yes.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Which makes sense.

[Mike O'Rourke]

It's.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I have 1% more.

[Aaron]

Well, that's important. Yeah. That is an important technicality. Yeah, it does.

[Mike O'Rourke]

We've been married a long time. I mean, what does it really matter?

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yeah. We're. We're partners. Yeah. Yeah, we're. We're 50. 50 now. But it's been great. And I'm. I'm lucky to work with somebody that's very humble. We have a lot of humble people in our company. I think I'm humble. You know, like I said, no job. You know, just where I started in life, no job is too big or too small for me. And I think Mike and I both are on the same page that we would never make one of our employees do something we wouldn't do. And that includes with looking at work.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Jobs we bid.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. I mean, absolutely. And I think, you know, I didn't know what you were going to ask me, obviously, when I sat in this.

[Aaron]

Chair, I didn't know what I was going to ask.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah, well. But you know what? You haven't really asked me this, but one thing I will say is that we are so fortunate to have the team that we have and the people that work there, they're like family to us. I mean, really, they're just phenomenal. They're phenomenal at what they do. They execute on a daily basis, safely, efficiently, you name it.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Perfectionist.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. I mean, we're just so fortunate to have the. The folks that we do. I mean.

[Aaron]

Yeah. I do you know Peter Banks from National Demolition Association?

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I know of him. I've not met him though.

[Aaron]

So I had him on the podcast not too long ago and we had a conversation about demolition and how demolition, I think, is one of, like the last art forms within this industry. Because when you're in civil construction, it's amazing. There's an art to it, but you're building something on a set of plans. There's a prescription. You're building to a specification.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Exactly.

[Aaron]

Whereas demolition is still. We have this. Make it disappear.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yeah. Sometimes you have as built.

[Aaron]

Yes. Sometimes you have as built. And I mean, like. And maybe they're completely off.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

You know, even renovation drawings are missing.

[Aaron]

Yes. Yeah. And it's like a. It's like a. A puzzle you've got to figure out. Then you've got these constraints. You might have specific work hours or. This building right here, this doesn't go. But it's attached to what does go.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

But don't slice.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah. But don't. But don't mess it up. And there's so much creativity and so much fun to it. Correct.

[Mike O'Rourke]

It's more of an art than a science. That's different ways to more of an art science.

[Aaron]

A lot more art. It's much more creative.

[Mike O'Rourke]

It is. I mean, and you know, that's one thing, quite frankly, that's one thing that I find as long as I've been doing this, that I enjoy it so much because, you know, it's not the same every day. Every project is different. You know, we. Only once or twice in my career have we done exactly the same building because we're in a, you know, a certain complex and doing multiple cookie cutter buildings. But, you know, there's always new challenges. Every day you could be doing the same building and if you put it, you know, if it's in the middle of a cornfield or it's in the middle of a plant, it's a different deal. So, you know, that's what just makes it so, so interesting and so challenging, really, every day. And I think Michelle said it in her speech earlier, if you want to be challenged, this is.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

We were talking about workforce and. Yeah, I mean, just you have to think on your feet. You have problem solving every day. It's not boring. It moves fast. It changes by the second. I mean, it's an awesome career.

[Aaron]

So you were, you were speaking at National Demolition Association.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

The World Demolition Summit.

[Aaron]

World Demolition. Yeah. Excuse me. Okay.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yes.

[Aaron]

World Demolition.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

The EDA too.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Yes. The Europeans.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yes.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And the Europeans are very fancy folks.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yes.

[Aaron]

I say that in like a fun way.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Make them sound.

[Aaron]

They've been really good to me. Yeah.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

But.

[Aaron]

But especially that I've seen the European demolition events too. It's like, wow, they're falling out over there. Yeah, yeah, they are.

[Mike O'Rourke]

We've not gone over there for an event, but kind of thinking I might want to now. They're such, you know, great people. Right. I mean, it's so, so fun to talk to them and have them here in our country.

[Aaron]

Yeah, we. I visited with Brown and Mason. I visited with Eberhard with a regular with actually quite a few. Hagedorn in Germany and Despa in Italy.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Oh, wow.

[Aaron]

Really cool as well. Yeah. And each one of them is just spectacular. I've actually, I've seen quite a bit of demolition now that I'm.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

You have?

[Mike O'Rourke]

You sure have.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

So good, so good, so good.

[Aaron]

Score.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Holiday gifts. Everyone wants for way less at your Nordstrom Rack.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Sales save on Ugg, Nike, Rag and.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Bone, Vince Frame, Kurt Geiger London and more. Because there's always something new.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I'm giving all the gifts this year with that extra 5% off when I use my Nordstrom credit card.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Santa who join the Nordy Club at Nordstrom Rack to unlock our best deals. It's easy.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Big gifts, big perks.

[Mike O'Rourke]

That's why you rack.

[Aaron]

What were you speaking about specifically? You said workforce development.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

The theme is sustainability for this summit. And, you know, typically during these summits, they're very technical. You know, you hear engineering feeds, projects, you know, technically challenging projects, use of AI engineering. I mean, equipment innovation. So I thought, I'm going to put a different twist as a woman on sustainability. So it's just kind of going in, you know, when we roll into sites, it's kind of looking behind the fence line. What is going on in this community or area that as a company we can get behind to help? And I talk about some examples within O' Rourke. One job was our silos. We had that. I think you just missed that implosion. The head house.

[Aaron]

I did, yes, unfortunately. That was pretty cool.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I know. So we had that. That job had a ton of tires on it. Like ungodly. This. There was a gentleman run, a nice fine gentleman running an illegal dump and scrapyard right on the site that he commandeered. And so we decided, let's. In this. This neighborhood was just so forgotten. So we decided as a company, instead of doing another golf outing, gala fundraiser, we're going to do this and have a tire amnesty day for this neighborhood. And so we had everyone bring your tires in. We're going to pay you. We're going to pay $2 a tire. Why $2? Because it was a fun, simple, don't have to make change kind of thing. We did it in December so they could earn some Christmas cash. And lo and behold, it was very successful. I think we removed 2,500 tires, 30 pounds of rubber, recycled. But the good news is that a grassroots organization called and said, hey, that's our mission. How did you do that? Can you help us? We just don't have the equipment, you know, logistics, manpower. So we. So we shared our playbook and had another day with them to show them how to do it. And the biggest thing which you're really good at is they didn't know how to tell their story. They had the mission, but they were the hidden gem. So I took them around to TV stations, radio stations, got billboards for them and social media to get their word out about what they do. And we had another event. We took in 2,000 tires and they didn't want to pay because they wanted to be able sustain it moving forward. And people still came. And now from that one tire event, they have their monthly event every month. We cleared and prepped a site for their monthly events because they didn't. Didn't know how to do that. They are taking in everything now. Trash, scrap metal, which is good for them, E, waste tires, C and D, debris. You name it, they take it.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. And I think, you know, it's. It was been a great event. We've done two of them now in the last about year and a half.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Now they're doing every month.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah, so.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

So we kind of passed the torch.

[Mike O'Rourke]

And we sponsored what Michelle said in her speech. And I never really thought about it this way, but you. And she's correct is, you know, we're all asked to do, hey, can you sponsor this golf outing? Can you, you know, hey, the. The Boy Scouts need, you know, 2,500 bucks for a table for the big gala they're having. You know, all these things. But as a company, we said, what are we doing to make a difference in the neighborhoods that we work in in our city? You know, there's a lot of underserved neighborhoods, and, you know, we. We work in them all the time. And, and in this particular, you know, these silos were, you know, over 100 years old. There was a failed demolition attempt about 15 years ago from a contractor who's lucky he lived to tell about it, what he was trying to do. But they sat in a compromised position for, as I say, about 15 years. And Michelle pulled down. There were YouTube videos of kids climbing up. They were, you know, 10 stories in the air.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

And then they were trying to make TikTok videos.

[Mike O'Rourke]

The fact that no one ever got hurt is. Or worse is amazing. But, you know, so we, we came onto this site and it just, you know, we were talking about it. It's like, look at this mess. I mean, we. We just. Maybe we can help in another way.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

So that's why I call it the ripple effect. And this neighborhood is being revitalized. They're going to put a bike path in soon. They have community gardens, homes were getting rehabbed. I mean, it's exciting. So it just takes one single idea, and you just don't know how it's going to play out. I also, I mean, I gave probably 10 examples of things we've done over the years. But one thing I think is important that we don't do enough as company leaders is health within our own workforces and how to get that drive, that message. And so I gave an example.

[Mike O'Rourke]

What I'm just, you know, we're the typical married couple. She treats her body like a temple. I treat mine like a tent.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yes. Mike's clearly not listening to me.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah, clearly. So just. But what you said. I just have to laugh when you said that. You know, typically people in our industry don't.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Oh, right.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Don't watch what they eat.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

We're notorious for not taking care of ourselves. I mean, our jobs are stressing dirty. We work long hours, and then our family food breaks or a roach coach or convenience store fast food. And so, you know, our hearts suffer blood pressure.

[Mike O'Rourke]

So you got guys who dip, smoke, smoke, and, you know, all the bad habits. Yeah.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Oh, my gosh. So. So just trying to get messaging out, one thing is, you know, making sure your. Your team has a doctor and they get a yearly physical that's the easiest. And two, for instance, we have a huge convention center project that we just completed.

[Aaron]

I've been following that.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yeah, it's pretty impressive how fast we had to move. And there's three phases all simultaneously. Well, anyway, I am convinced the American Heart Association, I'm a part of the Heart Hats with Heart Committee. And I just said, you know, all we do is talk. But if you really want to drive your mission, you got to get to the boots on the ground folks that need this information. So let's put a blood pressure kiosk down at the convention center. Let's just try it. Let's just do. Just do a trial and error. So we had a big educational event and showed the tradesmen and women how to use this machine. It's going to sit there the whole duration. We educated them on things to eat, what heart attack symptoms are, because heart attacks, I mean, they don't always present as pain in your chest, strokes, and where to get help. Like, if you don't have a doctor, here's the number you call. You can go if you have high blood pressure. So we've helped five trades people identified with high blood pressure and they're getting help. So it's a proactive measure. But that's just kind of the ripple effect that you just don't know how that's going to, you know, impact their life and their families. But so it's going to go into our next job. It's going to follow us and our. The construction manager working for. They're buying three machines for their future job. So it's the ripple effect. That's what I talked about.

[Aaron]

How good is that? No, I. But that, that's sustainability. Like a lot of companies, they like to talk about the big picture stuff.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Correct?

[Aaron]

It's like, that's that congratulations. But honestly, that, that kind of stuff is. Is easy too. It's like, yeah, we'll just throw some money over here. Yeah, I'll throw some money over here. All right, cool. We check the box, we feel good about ourselves.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Right?

[Aaron]

But it doesn't create any value in the world. It doesn't create any kind of change. And so from a sustainability. And that's part of my qualm with a lot of these safety programs because it's like, oh, safety is number one. And so we're gonna do this because safety is number one. And then you look at everybody from a health standpoint, you're like, do you really care about people, though? Because that's what I said today. Yeah, Me, I'm much less likely to get injured than somebody that's 150 pounds overweight. Like we're not the same. Don't treat us the same. We're not.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Right.

[Aaron]

And there's some issues here that we need to take a serious look at because I just had this conversation this morning and I'll have it, I'm a harp on this. It's like if we're trying to convince parents that this is the best place for their children and we take them to the fence and we look out over the workforce and say this is the best place for your 17 year old son or daughter, are they going to believe us?

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Right.

[Aaron]

Based on what they see.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Correct.

[Aaron]

I don't know. Like, like, no, no one's argued with me on that. Like, no. There. This is absolutely.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Because everybody mean fighting machine.

[Aaron]

Well, everybody knows it's like.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

You know.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

So a lot of people are miserable. People aren't sleeping, people are drinking. Yeah. We have by far the, that we're the number one industry for fatality by drug overdose.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yes.

[Aaron]

By a long shot right now.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Absolutely.

[Aaron]

There's some, there's some very startling numbers there that we've got to take care of if we expect the next generation to join us.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. You know, and that's something that, you know, when I started in the business, you never ever talked about the mental health of your workforce.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Mike O'Rourke]

But you know, just like Michelle identifying that, that example I gave earlier, there's.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

So many within our company.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. I mean this just, it's a high stress environment all the time. You know, it's the old saying you're worried about or my old saying you're worried about getting work or getting it done. You know, and that's the world we live in. And it's very rewarding. You get a ton of satisfaction from it. But there is a kind of the dark underbelly that it takes its toll on you and you got to take care of yourself. And to Michelle's credit, she does a good job with that.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

You know, you want to sustain your workforce. You got biggest asset.

[Mike O'Rourke]

You know, you don't have a doctor. I'm gonna find you a doctor by five o'clock today. You call me and I'll have you an appointment of the doctor. And that's, I mean that happens.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

It's just, it's overwhelming for them. Think about it. Some of them never had, you know, a doctor, their dad or parents, you know, they, their doctor or then now they go to the little clinic or the, you Know the local.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah, just show up at the emergency.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Room or whatever, and they don't really have a doctor. They don't understand about being proactive. And so just taking the time and just talk through.

[Aaron]

It's the same thing with mental health. All these construction companies. Oh, we need to talk about it.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Okay. How.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Talk does nothing.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but how, like, where do I even start? How do I approach some? Like, give me something. Like, what. What do I do if somebody is struggling? What do I do if I'm struggling? I just go talk to somebody about it. Like. Yeah, can you give me a little bit more here? Like, what's the plan? What's. How do I make this a little less scary?

[Michelle O'Rourke]

And that's what I feel like I do for o'. Rourke.

[Aaron]

Sure. Yeah.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Because I more approach. I will ask them questions, and then those questions lead to other things, and you find out really what the root cause is.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

It's amazing.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Mike O'Rourke]

And if I. If I can just fly the plane back up to 30,000ft for a second.

[Aaron]

Like, push room out.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. Got the pushburn back out. So she talks about, well, I got involved and got the heart cuff down there and dealing with the top people at our client, the construction manager and the agency that we were working for in that convention center project. The top people there were involved. So the female CEO is quite effective at speaking to the upper echelon of our clients and our clients. Clients. That is not my strong suit. You know, I'm making sure the job's getting done, we have the right people and the right equipment. We're meeting the schedule. So the fact that, you know, in 2019, we made this shift, I mean, that's a perfect example of why it's been so effective, because those types of things are, you know, they're. They're fantastic. But let's be honest, they're outside the bottom box of what typical people in our industry do. But, you know, like I said, I give my. My wife here a lot of credit in that. That area.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

This message may be shocking to many millennials. If you are one, you might want to sit down. Right now, loads of people are searching the following on Depop. Low rise. Jeans, halter top, velour tracksuit, puka shell necklace, disc belt. You likely place these in the dark of your closet in 2004, never to be seen again. But if you can find it in yourself to dust them off, there are a lot of people who will give you money for them. Sell on Depop, where taste recognizes taste.

[Aaron]

What. What prompted that decision, because I know you were already doing it, but the title change for you, it's like, well, I was already doing it, but it does matter.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Externally, it gives you more credibility.

[Aaron]

It definitely matters.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I mean, and I'm just like. And that's what I think that was the hardest part. My first year with the title CEO, I'm like, it just like. I don't know, people just took me more serious. It was just crazy to me because I'm still the same person. I'm still doing the same things, but.

[Mike O'Rourke]

You know, some other things, too.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Hire a people. You know, we're just like, oh, okay, yeah, we want you on our board now. You know, we're going to do a story about you. I'm like, well, where were you 10 years ago when I was really, like, slugging it out and.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah, been here the whole time.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

You've been here the whole time? And why not? You know?

[Mike O'Rourke]

You know, it's. What's so hilarious is, you know, because again, I was in that role for a long time, and I. And, you know, I'm the president of the company. Michelle's the CEO, right. So I handle more operations and estimating, and she handles more strategy and, you know, the face of the company, business development. Yes. So. But all of a sudden, she has the CEO title. And, you know, we're. We're not big on titles at o'. Rourke, even though you have to have them, it's just like, look, we're here. We're all here to work together. And I don't care if you're a laborer or the president or whatever you are, we all need to bust our ass and get the work done. But Michelle's getting all these calls and people reaching out on LinkedIn. I want to meet with you. I need. She's like, wow, you know, I got to meet with this guy. I got to meet with that guy, and this guy needs to have lunch. And I don't know how I'm going to handle all like, why are you doing that? Well, you know, I have to, because he reached out to me. I'm like, you know, here's what you.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Don'T want to do. Really quick.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Mike O'Rourke]

You are never going to be able to meet with everybody who reaches out to you on LinkedIn and who calls the office and it's got a new pencil sharpener to sell you, you know? Well, not that you don't fall into that trap. And I mean. And that was just. It was so funny to me. So I'm sitting back there you know, she's like, you. You don't answer all this people. I'm like, no, no, I don't. It's impossible. There's not enough hours in the day.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yeah, I learned quick.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

But the title was that just kind of. I'm just like, wow. Just this title. But it allowed me to get on some really great boards where I feel like I can do really great work. And that's. And in terms of. It always surprised me how much they talk and they don't. Like you said, people like to talk. They just talk and they don't. You know, it's like, you can talk, but you got to do. You know, you got to find programs that are boots on the ground that really drive the messaging and get this across, and how do you really help people? And so that's why I try to think. That's where I'm creative. Probably a lot like you thinking outside the box. Like, what can we do to get this message to our men and women who are wearing hard hats about heart health? Let's take it to them. You know what I mean? Let's keep having these education events. Let's keep not just one and out, like, hey, here's the day. Let's all take your blood pressure. Bye. And then it's out of sight, out of mind. It sits there, it lives there, and it's going to go on the next project and the next project. And so hopefully everyone in Cincinnati will have one of these on their job sites. It's just issued.

[Aaron]

And it's simple things like that that make a huge difference.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Right.

[Aaron]

How. How do you all do the whole being married, husband and wife thing?

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I knew that.

[Aaron]

Well, well, while running a demo.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Who do you want to go first?

[Aaron]

I, you know, you tell me. Yeah, how does that. How does that logistically work?

[Michelle O'Rourke]

You know, it just kind of grew organically. It was out of probably survival. We were two kids. It was a crazy time. And I knew my husband needed help, and I just kind of took off my power woman hat because I wanted to be. I had this whole power career going, fast track, and I took it off, and I thought, I'm just going to do this temporarily, help him out. I never dreamed I'd still be in the demolition business 30 years later, but if someone asked me if I had to start now working with my husband, I don't think I could do it. But because we were young and we kind of grew up in the business together, and it's almost like we've been, as you say it Mike, we've been to war together. So we're like, we have these great war stories because we have some really good stories. And sometimes we wonder how we survived it, but we did.

[Aaron]

But how do you create time for, like, one another, though? Because it could very. I'm sure it's very easy to just talk about work all the time.

[Mike O'Rourke]

That's what we do. Answer to that question.

[Aaron]

Well, maybe that's what you do. I don't know.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Maybe that's the answer. So I tell, you know, I've been. I have a lot of friends who. Who own and run companies and. And I tell them all the time, work with your wife every day. We couldn't have children. Right. That's. That's one personal side of our story that's very difficult. We couldn't have kids, so, you know, we wound up burying ourselves in work. So that's another facet of it that is, you know, kind of, I guess, is interesting or whatever you want to say to our story, but I tell my friends all the time, work with your wife every day. Go home, keep it interesting. No kids to talk about. Try that out.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

You know, that sounds really terrible. Sorry.

[Mike O'Rourke]

But I'm just, you know, it's. Michelle's correct. It grew organically. You know, we're in the country music capital of the world here. So, you know, when I think about our story, I think about, you know, I'm a huge country music fan, right. And I think about the Jamie Johnson song in Color, if you know, the song I'm talking about. And part of what that song says is we were two kids just trying to take care of each other, and that's what we were. And, you know, she was trying to help in any way she could at the beginning, and I was trying to keep the business moving forward, and we just grew into a very formidable team together.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

We're like a tag team. And I would say that I'm blessed to be because I have, you know, friends. You know, we all have people that we know married, and Mike is a very humble man, and he's very respectful of me and anything I do. And not everybody has that, apparently.

[Aaron]

Well. And, yeah, not like, not everybody would make you CEO, the company.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Correct.

[Aaron]

That's.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

That's, you know, that. That's a lot of CEO in this business.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Well, I'm going to tell you, you know, it wasn't. I was president of the company when that happened, but it was an easy decision when we really sat down and walked through it, Michelle and I together.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Her and I Also wanted.

[Aaron]

It's not like you haven't earned it.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Has she earned it? Yes. Can she do it? Yes. Does she want it? Yes. You know, and you got to check all those boxes. You know, it was not a hard decision. And, you know, she's paid her dues, you know, she's earned her stripes. Whatever you want to say.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

No, wait, it doesn't. You know, I think companies get in trouble when they say, well, this guy's or gal has been here. Longevity. They should get the role.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I don't believe in that. Like, I believe you should be allowed to leapfrog. And if you're not, you know, just because you have long.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Merit based. I agree.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Merit based. I'm a big believer in that. So if I'm not the correct person, you know, I certainly wouldn't want this position. But I do at the time right now, I think I am the right person in this role. Will it be forever? No. But there's someone coming. There'll be someone to replace me someday.

[Mike O'Rourke]

And me too. Right. I mean, you know, it's. That's just the natural way of things. And we want to see the company go on beyond us, obviously, and we have a great team there to do that.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Absolutely.

[Mike O'Rourke]

But, you know, I feel very strongly that, you know, she was the right person for the job. Not the right woman. Not my wife.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Mike O'Rourke]

She was there. She paid her dues. She'd been there a long time. She understands the business and she has the skill set to do the job. Do I have the skill set to do the job? Yeah. But she. We complement each other very well. She's better at some things than I am and vice versa, you know, so you got to play to your strengths. Yeah.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

And jokingly, but Mike has the great ability to tune me out at night when I'm talking and I'm like, hey, and another thing.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. At 11 o' clock at night when I'm laying in bed.

[Aaron]

Go to bed. Yeah.

[Mike O'Rourke]

And she turns the lights on. It's like, you know, we need to talk.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Oh, wow.

[Mike O'Rourke]

And I'm like, it's been a while since I've done. Take the rest of the day off. I'm going to bed. You know, like, it's the female. We've got to deal with this immediately right now because the sky is falling and the world's going to blow up if we sleep for eight hours, you know, and it's just like, that's all right. The true side, that's the marriage part of it. It's just like hey, I'm not talking to you. If you want me to go sleep on the couch, I'm happy to do that, but I'm going to sleep. I can promise you that.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

We also have a lot of fun.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. Yeah, we do. I mean, we do laugh at each other a lot.

[Aaron]

I mean, it's.

[Mike O'Rourke]

You have to be. I mean, we're. We're really best friends. I mean, I know that's a cliche, but we really are.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I mean, you know, we've been through so much.

[Mike O'Rourke]

You know, I'm 57. Michelle, stop. But she's. Yeah, she's 56. We've been together.

[Aaron]

I was gonna say 40.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yeah, exactly. I'm your third wife.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. That's what I tell her. Yeah, it's my third.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Your daughter.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Mike O'Rourke]

People have asked me. That's. My daughter said no. It was pretty tough. Yeah. I don't have the young boyish face like you anymore. But yeah, so like, you know, we've. We've known each other, you know, she was 15 and I was 17 when we met and we've been through a ton of stuff together.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

This business isn't for the faint of heart, as you know. Harry.

[Aaron]

No.

[Mike O'Rourke]

And you know what?

[Michelle O'Rourke]

It's brutal.

[Mike O'Rourke]

It is. It's a tough business. And they're just. Isn't too many women who, you know, like, I'm like, hey, you know, I need you to. I remember one example. This happened in 2008. She. She was going. Her mom was having a big birthday. I don't remember what.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

They were going to the Grand Canyon.

[Mike O'Rourke]

They were going to the Grand Canyon with all her nieces. And it was big, this big girls trip that Michelle was going to take them all on. Well, you know, we were working on a job and some things happened and, and we had a huge submittal that had to go in to the client. And if she would have left town, I would have had a lot more than a submittal.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

But. Yes.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah, I'm trying to. I don't know how to. I don't know how to make the story short for.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

But it was critical that I was there for that.

[Mike O'Rourke]

I had to have her there and. And she sent him. Sent him on and you know, it.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Just a lot of sacrifice.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

You know, that's business.

[Mike O'Rourke]

It is business. But you know what? That was one example out of a million that I could give you. But we got the job and we've sacrificed a lot for the business and sacrificed a lot, you know, and people look now and oh, you know, that business was Going before them. Well, I mean you know it. We've been doing this for. You know my dad passed away 30 plus years ago. The business is way different than it was then.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Oh my gosh. In every way.

[Mike O'Rourke]

I give a lot of credit to Michelle. You know, I think I've worked pretty damn hard there and our team is phenomenal.

[Aaron]

Well and it's. It's such a competitive business too. If you're not really good, you wouldn't be here anymore. Like you. You don't. Especially in demolition you're. You, you don't. There's not really a big moat around your business a lot of times. I mean even the biggest.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Less and less every day.

[Aaron]

Less and less every day. So if you're not performing you're. You're going away, right?

[Mike O'Rourke]

Well, I mean you're. You're exactly right. When I started in the business you had to own and maintain your own fleet of equipment. If you wanted to be in the business. That's what you had to do. Now you can pick up the phone and call company wrench or Powertrak. Right.

[Aaron]

I could go get a 390 PI reach tomorrow.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Correct. What if that is done to all the listeners out there. His watered down the talent pool in our industry. In the demolition industry. It is absolutely watered it down. The invention of the High Reach excavator has watered down the talent pool because you know High Reach is much. You know I. When I started we used a crane and a wrecking ball.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Jobs.

[Aaron]

The only time I've ever seen a crane wrecking ball.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Came to see that.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. We still. It was the coolest thing and you know it, it. Don't get me wrong, the High Reach excavator is a phenomenal tool for our business and it is much safer and much more efficient than a crane and a wrecking ball. However, I will tell you that a crane and a wrecking ball still occasionally has a place depending on where the job is, what you're dealing with, all the number of factors. But you know, the fact that you can call a rental house and let me have a 390 with 100 foot of reach, you know. You know now all of a sudden, you know you get people who are chasing projects. And then we wonder why as an industry we're having more insurance issues and why our insurance rates are skyrocketing. You know, it's because the talent pool is dramatically watered down and it just is. I mean I've been doing this a long time. I know what our company is capable Of I know how we have homegrown talent and we've got a ton of it. We are, you know, that's the, the, our bench strength is I would put us up against anybody in the industry. Pound for pound, there's nobody better.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

But, you know, but it's just we, we take care of them, you know, they're like our children.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Well, you just, yeah, I mean, it's, you know what, if you don't treat your good people extremely well, then you're just missing the boat. I tell them all the time, I don't want you to say, oh, this is a good place to work. They treat me really fair here. I don't want to be known as the guy who treats people fair. I want to be known as the guy who treats people well.

[Aaron]

Labor is a very competitive marketplace too. If you don't treat your people well now, they're gonna go and some of the old timers will stick around, but next generation, they're not hanging around. I, I constantly encourage people. I'm like, hey, if your company sucks, go somewhere else. I, I'm telling people, so you're the one, I'm the one. I, I, it's, it's, it's the only way we're going to change.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

That's right.

[Aaron]

Like, you're right. Some of these old school companies, they have to feel some pain and they're starting to, they're really starting to. And it's only beginning.

[Mike O'Rourke]

More, more than starting to. I mean, you know, as I said, I can buy all the equipment in the world, you know, I can buy High Reach excavator, I can buy trucks, you name it. If you don't have the people, you are going nowhere. Yeah, and that's just the case, you know. But I will say it kind of gets me back to the, you know, hey, what's your work from? Home policy. Which when I hear that in an interview, I just want to, oh, you know, hey, I've worked here for two years. You know, I've been here two years, you know, like, it's like, I'm sorry, what? You know, I, I, I, that's like nothing to me.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

You know, it's just the different generations coming together. But I, I, honestly, the younger generation, it's not so much they like money, but it's more about what else is there, you know, the why behind the work they do, you know, just simple things that they're cared about, you know, that they're thought of, you know, just like with having, you know, making sure Everyone has, you know, physicians and getting their physicals. I mean, they like that. They like, you know, that we care about them. Do we have a lot of company events, you know, from a clay shoot to Christmas parties to a summer party, you know, like amusement park. I mean, we do all kind of things throughout the year just to have touched points with them. They need more touch points than like our older crusty generation did. They were just like they would.

[Mike O'Rourke]

You know what? It's. I will say because I am a huge proponent of your. If you think that you're too old to learn, you better hang it up. I learned something every day. If I get to go on a job site, which is like a day off, if I get out of the office and go on a job, I have never, ever gone onto a job where I didn't learn. Learn something. And if you're not learning something, you're not looking hard enough, you're not talking to your people enough. So like all the events that Michelle mentioned, it's the best part about that is it's building camaraderie. You know, you. Because you want the guys who've been there a long time to mentor those younger guys. You know, I was fortunate. My dad mentored me and Michelle worked at the company a long time, and good or bad was mentored in a lot of ways. But there's people in our field who maybe their dad didn't take an interest in them or they didn't have a strong role model in their life to teach them things. And when we get them into our company, what I preach is that's our responsibility to mentor those guys, make them a part of something. Teach them something. You know, teach them. I mean, the first thing you teach them is like, hey, when? Seven o', clock, when we start work. That's not when you get here.

[Aaron]

No. If you're on time, you're late.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Correct.

[Aaron]

Lesson number one, right?

[Mike O'Rourke]

I mean, if you're not standing, number one.

[Aaron]

Right.

[Mike O'Rourke]

And I mean, you know, don't be looking at your phone. Don't. Don't be hungover from the night before, have your boots tied, your PP on, PPE on, and you're ready to go.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but that's. A lot of people get frustrated with this. Like, oh, no one parented them. It's like, no, no, no. That's the point that you need to do that. And the more you can do that, the more you can create a more productive, loyal workforce.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Correct.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Right.

[Aaron]

If you can fill that.

[Mike O'Rourke]

There's a difference in my mind between parenting Someone and mentoring them, like, because I think I've had guys, you know, but I've had friends who are like, hey, Mike, you know, you think you can hire my son? You know, he's really looking for a job. Like, oh, yeah. How old is he? Ah, you know, he's 25. Oh, what has he done? Well, you know, he. He played baseball. He was a really good baseball player. And then, you know, he's a lifeguard for a while. And, you know, then he. Then he. Then he was just working, delivering pizzas. And I'm just like. But, you know, we've really been having a lot of problems with him. You can't. He's just sleeping in. I'm like, I'm like, so you want me to fucking teach you work ethic when he's 25? You want me to. I said, you know, that ship has sailed, my friend. Like, you teach that when. When he's 10 years old, not when he's 25. And, you know, I just hear all the time, but that's parenting. When you mentor someone that's teaching them a skill set, teaching them a trade.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

And they have the right mindset. Yeah.

[Mike O'Rourke]

And they have. They have to be coachable, you know, that's coachable. I tell our guys all the time, it's like a football team, you know, you got to have young guys coming in, They've got to be mentored in kind of what we refer to as the o' Rourke way when you get here, you know, and we teach you to bleed o' Rourke red.

[Aaron]

But I think that's a misconception with the younger generation, is. I was just asked this the other day. I'm asked it all the time, how do I find a mentor? And I just tell them, get to work. Go bust your ass.

[Mike O'Rourke]

They'll find you.

[Aaron]

They'll find you. Yeah, you need to be worth investing in. Before anybody's going to invest in you, you got to invest in yourself.

[Mike O'Rourke]

That is such great advice because that's how it works. It is absolutely how it works. And you know, too. Too many young people don't understand that. I mean, I just hear this conversation with one of our senior most field superintendents, who, by the way, are the key to any. I don't care what kind of construction you do the field. They're like the master sergeants in the army.

[Aaron]

They're the most influential people at the business.

[Mike O'Rourke]

I believe 100%. They drive all of the revenue in the business, be it people or whatever. So I was talking to one of those Guys, and we've got a lot of good ones. And he said to me, hey, you know, so and so is really doing well. He beats me here every day. He wants to learn, you know, on and on and on. We have those conversations constantly. I don't think young people realize how much that is talked about because we're always looking for talent. We're always looking for, like, hey, we can make something of that guy. Now, his friend who he brought to work with him, you know, that. That guy, he's not cut out for this business, but this guy over here, now, we really want to do something with him, you know, so anyway, it's. It's just. It goes on all the time.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but in that, I think people, they misunderstand, too. It's like when you're thinking of promoting somebody to a different role, you're looking at who the best performer is already. Like, you're not going to be. Oh, who could potentially perform well in that role. It's like, no, who's already performing really well.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Right.

[Aaron]

That's. The hungriest person is going to get that opportunity.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Correct. That's exactly right. Who is the. Who's the guy who's. When you say, hey, we really need to work Saturday and Sunday to get to make this schedule.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Mike O'Rourke]

And you got one guy who's. Who's killing him, say, hey, I'll be here. Can I work? You know, and then you got the other guy who's just like, you know, you're putting him out because he's, you know, got a. Whatever. Play a soccer game on Sunday in the over 25 league.

[Aaron]

Sure. Yeah. Well, if you want to do that, that's fine.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Hang up a sports over there, aren't you.

[Aaron]

That's.

[Mike O'Rourke]

I am, but you have to country music.

[Aaron]

Like, you can do that, but you also have to. You have to manage your expectations if you do. I had this conversation, my brother yesterday, you know, he was saying, oh, yeah, I've been working every Saturday. And I'm like, that's, you know, that's great, Tyler, but understand, like, if you want more, that's just table stakes. You've just got to work more than other people. So if you want to be better than those around you, you just have to, like, work.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Right.

[Aaron]

And that. That just gives you a seat at the table.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

That's right.

[Aaron]

It doesn't guarantee anything, but it's. It is a math equation. If you want more, you've got to do more. If you don't want more, that's fine. You know, if you're going to meet the standard, that's okay. Just don't expect anything above average, because you're not going to get there.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Correct. Yeah. One guy told me, which I always thought was funny, is you have three types of people in a company. You got roses, daisies, and weeds. The roses have thorns. Your toughest, most. Your most talented are always the toughest to deal with. So roses have thorns. The daisies, you got the middle of the road. Guys who. Yeah, they say it, but they don't really want it. But you're trying to make those daisies into roses, if you can, then you got to pull the weeds sometimes, you know, they just aren't going to be anything but weeds.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Mike O'Rourke]

And unfortunately, we don't have too many of those guys. But, you know, it's a constant, constant thing to work on. You never get done with it.

[Aaron]

Never ever. No. No. But that's the lie you tell yourself. Like, oh, next year it'll be better. Or at least that's how I lie to myself.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

What's coming down the road for o'? Rourke?

[Michelle O'Rourke]

So we're going to have to have you at UC Crossley Tower. That brutalism architecture is finally coming down Nice. Yeah, it's a big job.

[Mike O'Rourke]

You're gonna. You're gonna be back pretty cool. Yeah, it's. It's a. It's a.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

It's a unique job.

[Mike O'Rourke]

It's one that we've chased for a long time. And the university is finally 10 years moving forward, which is my alma mater, University of Cincinnati. Go, Cats. But, yeah, it's a. To Michelle's point, is a big job. It's a big environmental job. There's quite an asbestos component to it. Okay. We have crews in there now doing the asbestos abate equipment. And the tower actually has like, a. A cantilever crown on it. It's 16 stories, but it's got a crown that shoots off in four directions.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

So it's like. It's an inverted missile silo.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

That you want to tell the story about.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Go ahead. No, please.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

These were designed during the Cold War, this style of architecture. They were little, literally, missile silos, and it's the second largest concrete pour in the US Behind Hoover Dam. They wanted to see how fast they could pour these all over the country, really, during the Cold War for missiles. So they built them out of the ground, and they were going to build four of them on UC's campus, and they stopped at this one. I don't know why, but it is quite. You either love it or you hate it.

[Aaron]

So it's a 16 story concrete structure.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yes. I'll show you a picture.

[Aaron]

How are you all taking it down?

[Michelle O'Rourke]

We'd love to implode it, but.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Well, yeah, it's not. It's not.

[Aaron]

Can't really do a whole lot of that nowadays.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Well, it's, It's. It's in tight quarters up there, quite frankly. And so it's really a cut and pick operation until we get it down to a safe point. Yeah. That we can put a high reach on it, but.

[Aaron]

Okay.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Ah.

[Aaron]

Oh, wow. Okay. So you'll just, you know, carefully pull it down.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah, yeah, I see. Right. It'll. It'll be saw cut.

[Aaron]

And that's quite big.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah, Enormous. It's a large project.

[Aaron]

Wow. Okay.

[Mike O'Rourke]

But, yeah, like I said, we've been chasing that probably for the better part of 10 years. And we're working with a great client, Skanska, on that. We do.

[Aaron]

I worked for Skanska for a little bit.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Did you? Yeah. We do a lot of work for those folks and they're good people and they. They awarded us that job. And. Yeah. We're just getting started on it. So that's kind of the sweet. That's the focus of the day.

[Aaron]

I guess we'll have to come up and see you all one of these days.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

You're right up the road.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah. Quick.

[Aaron]

I know.

[Mike O'Rourke]

By the way, this is Michelle's first time in Nashville.

[Aaron]

Oh, good. Oh, it'll be. Yeah, you'll have some fun.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I know.

[Aaron]

Awesome.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Get my cowboy hat on. Or cowgirl.

[Aaron]

Yeah, you'll blend right in.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Careful, you get lost in the crowd. Yeah.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Get my big sash.

[Aaron]

The frilly jacket, you know, with the frilly arms.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Aaron]

All right.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

I got my hat, I got my boots.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Perfect.

[Aaron]

Right on. Well, I'm glad this worked. I appreciate you all stopping by. I know it's busy with the event, but this, this was great.

[Mike O'Rourke]

It was great to see you again. It's been a little while.

[Aaron]

Yeah. I'm glad. And I'm glad I got both you all.

[Mike O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Both you on. Because I think that's important.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

And Mr. Introvert, you know, who doesn't like to work a room. Sure. When he's one on one. He talks a lot, doesn't he?

[Aaron]

I wasn't worried about getting him talking. That's my job.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

You do very good.

[Mike O'Rourke]

You know, I will tell you, if she.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Mike O'Rourke]

If Michelle wouldn't set this up, I probably wouldn't have.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

You know what I'm talking. I'M speaking today. I can't.

[Aaron]

Yep, yep, yep.

[Mike O'Rourke]

No, I. I enjoyed meeting you the first time that you came up, and I really am impressed with everything that you guys do. I think you're a great ambassador for our industry, and I thank you for what you do. I appreciate it, because, you know, I think a lot of times this industry needs a better PR agent, and I think you're that guy.

[Aaron]

Thank you. Yeah. Doing our best.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

And you have the grit and the scrappiness because it has not been easy for you either.

[Aaron]

Oh, yeah. But.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

But you've learned a lot like that. You know, you learn a lot when it's not.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

You know, it was easy. We wouldn't learn anything.

[Aaron]

No, no, no. I'm not going anywhere. I'll be a pain in everybody's ass until the day I die. Like, this is good for you, man.

[Michelle O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Mike O'Rourke]

All right. For you. All right, well, thanks for having us on.