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I I am going to answer some questions, some submitted on social media, some submitted on the email. If you have questions for future episodes, you can drop us a line dirtttalkillwood.com we would love to hear from you. With that, we've got a question. First question from Jesse saying I'll graduate next week with a Bachelor's in economics and a minor in Mathematics. I worked full time throughout my time in college having opened two restaurants with an owner. I believe my experience gives me a solid foundation going into this career even though I do not have direct career experience in construction. I've been listening to your podcast for a few months now and watching your YouTube. I was wondering if you had any career advice for somebody who is entering as a project engineer for a general contractor in the San Francisco Bay Area. I know that this role requires me to be a sponge and absorb information to learn as much as possible. It's a very exciting time to be with your first job in the construction industry. I didn't make it as far as I'd hoped in construction before landing into this bill with thing, but I remember driving out to Texas my it was the fifth company I'd worked for at the time because I bounced around quite a bit in college to figure out what I liked as I've previously discussed, but went to work for a mid size construction company in Texas on a road construction project that I had helped estimate. It was a semar, I believe so it was alternative delivery. We had won the project and then as the plans became more and more complete, we then priced everything out. I was in the estimating department while I was in school at the company, working there during my classes on Fridays and some afternoons that didn't have classes. And I was able to study this job intently, help put it together from a pricing estimating standpoint. Which is then why I wanted to go help build it. Because what cooler opportunity than to see a 15ish million dollar job from the very beginning, from, from the pre construction part of things all the way through the construction process, it was gonna be best case scenario for me as a young engineer before that too. I think I was able to do really well because I knew I didn't know what I was doing. And I really leaned on those around me to teach me and, and to guide me. I, I never wanted to be the one that knew what I was doing. I sure, I'm sure I had my moments where I was overconfident like any young male. But I tried to make those few and far between to absorb as much as possible. So I know it's one thing to know you need to be a sponge, but it's another thing to actually act upon it. And I would encourage anybody newer to the industry to really act upon it, to leverage your, your lack of knowledge as an asset rather than a liability. I think a lot of people, they assume lack of knowledge is just immediately a liability. I've used it as a tremendous asset throughout my 20s. That's how I've gotten access to a lot of places. A lot of people are always like, how do you get onto these mind sites, construction projects? And it's like, because, largely because of humility, largely because I don't know a lot. And I admit I'm ignorant and I'm curious and I'm inexperienced and I'm not really a threat to anybody. So they let me in and they show me around, which is awesome. And so rather than being all afraid of what you don't know, you can wield that as an advantage. It's not an excuse. You still have to do your best, you still have to do your job to the best of your abilities. But you don't need to know everything, especially as an engineer. If you go in young engineer, try to know things, try to tell the people out in the field that are doing the actual work what to do or how to do their jobs. It's going to be bad news, it's going to be bad news for you. It's going to be bad news for everybody. So the having the utmost humility is, is essential. You know nothing, you are nothing. You are overhead to the project. You're not actually contributing to the, to the, to the big picture project. You're not performing any line items that are being built upon. And having that understanding at least served me really, really well. Now that's, that's an oversimplification. I think being an engineer, a young engineer, having a can do attitude is also great. Being willing to hop in and help people where possible is extremely valuable. And so look for opportunities to help people. Don't just stay in the office, get out, build relationships, try to make life for those around you easier. If you make life for them easier, they're going to make your life easier. You're going to end up with a, a better project. So I tried to always lend a hand where possible out in the field with those that I was serving. It's, it's. If you have a mindset of service that's going to take you a long way. From a management standpoint, I think where a lot of general contractors get lost is they start to believe that they're the ones making the project happen and they're the ones making the project successful. But they're overhead. They're not actually building a single thing on that project. They don't know how a single wire goes or I'm not super familiar on buildings, honestly, but they don't know how, in the civil, in civil terms, they don't know how to put asphalt down, they don't know how to put pipe in the ground, they don't know how to move dirt. They're managing all of that, which is very important. It's, it's necessary for the process to work, but they're not the ones doing it. So anybody in management, don't ever forget that you're not the one doing the work. You're there to serve those doing the work. And the more you serve them, the better off you'll be. So I would spend a lot of time in the field, I would build relationships, I would serve others. I would wield your ignorance as an asset. And finally, I would work. I would work. I would work. I would work. Especially while you're young, putting in your hours is really important. And so I would be the first one there, I'd be the last one home. I would be working as much, if not more than anybody else, because you can, you have that freedom right now. And you will get further and you will move faster than anybody else, your age and your position. If you are putting in more work, more hours, more reps. You're going to be in a really good place by the end of your 20s. I think I just wrapped up with my 20s, so I'm in a weird period right now of reflection. I think one of the things I did right, one of the best things I did was that I worked relentlessly because that has gotten me way further now than people my age. You don't really see that when you're 22, 23, 24, because everybody's kind of in the same place. But. But the more time passes, the wider the gap becomes and you start to understand the value of putting in your time, getting those reps while you're young, because then it will serve you the rest of your life. So stay humble, hungry, ask questions, don't be afraid to ask for help, don't be somebody that knows everything, build relationships, serve others, and work, work, work, work, work, work. You'll be in a great place. That is my best advice. Step two. Question two how do you find the right mentor? I feel like I've covered this before, but I'm going to cover it again because I see a lot of it online. I'm asked this a lot. I think the biggest thing for finding great mentors is being somebody worth mentoring. You have to go first. Highly accomplished people in whatever they're accomplished in, maybe it's athletics, maybe it's cooking, maybe it's construction, maybe it's business. I don't know. Whatever it is they want to invest in. People that are worth investing in, they're busy, they have a constrained amount of time. And because they have a constrained amount of time, they're not going to waste their time. Their time is very valuable. They're where they are because they've been very critical about how they spend their time. They're not going to pour into you if you don't already seem worthwhile, if you don't already have momentum. As I've built momentum, as I've done more, as I've become a better person, as I've got further in business, better leader, whatever it is, I have had access to better and better people. It's a direct correlation. And I think better and better people have been willing to invest in me because they, they believe in me, because I have some sort of track record to at least prove I'm headed in the right direction. I have a lot more to go. I'm. I'm really just getting started in my career, I think, but I have some tangible results now to say hey, I'm hungry. I'm serious. I want to go in this direction. I need your help. And they can see. Okay, yeah, he is doing the right things, he is putting in the work, he is asking the right questions and I'm willing to help him out. So I'll say you improving yourself, you doing the things you should be doing, whether it's the hours you're putting in, the books you're reading, getting healthy, I don't know what it is, but you doing those things, you're going to naturally attract by building that momentum, other people that are willing to pour into you. That's at least how it's been for me. And so I think if you take responsibility for yourself, you'll get really far and you'll find great people willing to help you get even further. Now, I will also say the world we live in is spectacular. I write about this a lot, how grateful I am to have incredible access to people, to highly accomplished people. What I mean by that is there's a lot of people that I would say I'm mentored by that I don't know, they don't know me. But I'm able to pick up how they do life and business and other things based on their social media presence. I've met a lot of them now, which is really cool. Thanks to the Ariat Dirt World Summit with those we brought in to speak, like Sal Frisella and Jocko Willink and others. It's been really cool to meet these people. Jesse Itzler it's just, it's pretty surreal. But I had followed them for a very long time before ever shaking their hand, meeting them before they knew who the hell I was. And I've gleaned a lot from them. I've just watched them online. You can see how they live their life. You can see what advice they have, they offer so much. So one, follow the right people on social media. There's a ton of value there. Two books, it's a great place to get a lot of wisdom. In a very condensed period of time, you can read about somebody's entire history within 500 pages, which is crazy. It's just absolutely spectacular. So reading is another thing that I like to do. And then documentaries as well. Like, man, I am eating up all of the sports documentaries now. The stuff Netflix is doing, especially how intimate they can get with some of these world class athletes is just mind boggling. And yeah, some of it's television, a lot of it's television, but you can at least get a glimpse in these people's lives that you couldn't get even just a few years ago. So, like the Formula one series, like the golf series, there's some on football, there's some great, great football ones. I just watched one on Saudi Arabian soccer. It's so cool. And it really gets me fired up to see just how these world class guys even talk, think, act, you can learn a lot and it's really motivating to me. So I've had a lot of benefit from there too. But first and foremost, if you want people to invest in you, invest in yourself. You go first, you be worth investing in and the right people will come along. But I think it starts with you. I think you have to mentor you before anybody else on the outside will mentor you. And maybe that's not always the case. I don't think the way I've done it is the right way. It's been right for me and that's how it's worked out for me is if these people are going to pour into me, I am going to go get results and I'm going to show them that their time is worthwhile with me, which then gets me more time and gets me access to better people, which then helps me get better. So that's how I've seen it. 3. What's your next endurance challenge? Well, last month I was supposed to run the Rocky Raccoon race in Texas. It's a 100 mile race in the woods north of Houston. I've tried it twice now. I tried it once and did 64 miles. My knee then just got to a point where it was so busted up I had to stop. And I was injured for a few months after that, which really sucked. Then I did a hundred mile race. So my goal was to do a hundred mile race. I did it, which is great, in Illinois a few years ago. And then I entered the Rocky Raccoon again last year. The course was a disaster. It was like ankle deep mud for 20 miles. And I wasn't mentally prepared to have my feet wet for 24 hours and a hundred miles. So I did 40 and called it. I just wasn't, I just wasn't mentally there. Um, physically I could have done it, which is a bummer. But I'm not too proud to admit that I just didn't have what it took to have wet feet for that long. This year was a tough call because one of my knees has been nagging me just a little bit. It's been fine, honestly. I've been cycling a Plenty. I've been running plenty. But it wasn't at a place where I could. There was a possibility I could do the a hundred miles, but there was a possibility I was going to get injured and out for a few months if I were to do it again. And I think I'm moving to a different place in life where the competition is important, but what's most important is my overall health and fitness that is paramount. And so finishing this race, but then putting myself out for months would have been, I think, more mentally damaging and taxing and, and physically taxing. To me, I would have figured it out and overcome it, but to me, that just wasn't worthwhile right now with where I'm at in life and in business and my schedule, I'd much rather be maintaining and growing steadily my fitness right now rather than trying to swing for a home run and. And potentially get an injury as a result. So I don't know when I'm gonna go do another a hundred miles. It's. I don't necessarily enjoy it. I don't at all enjoy it, actually. It's not a very fun distance. I've done it, so I can say I've done it. Maybe I'll do it again. I'll have to do Rocky Raccoon some point. But what I found is triathlons. I really enjoy triathlons way more. It's just way more mentally stimulating for me. I like the logistical challenge of having to toggle between multiple sports. I like having to train multiple sports and I like having to fit it all in because it's really time consuming to try to get in all the training. Just the whole thing about it, I think is, is a lot of fun and there's a lot of room for improvement. I've done a few triathlons. I've done a full Ironman, half Ironman, and so this year I've signed up for a half Ironman. I'll probably sign up for another full Ironman and I'll just stay on the triathlon training circuit right now. So that's what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna stick to triathlons. It's a ton of fun. Highly recommend it. There's baby triathlons that are. Are pretty short distances. Even the half Ironman distance, it's a, It's a great, great race. It's. It's half a day. It's not a giant commitment. I think a lot of people can do it. Even if you don't think you can. I think it's a very manageable race, um, and it's a lot of fun, so I'm excited to keep whittling away. I was able to do the half way faster from a pace standpoint than the full. Full was my first triathlon ever, so there was a lot of learning. And then I learned a lot in the most recent half late last year. And so I'm excited to apply those lessons and keep dialing in the whole triathlon game. So that's what I'm doing this year is I'm just gonna focus on daily fitness, working out every day, staying healthy, treating myself like I'm an athlete so that I can travel the way I do and work the way I do, and then do some of these triathlons. And finally, last question, how to get into management. How do you get into management without a construction management degree? I will say construction management, a construction management degree, or an engineering degree. Or a degree. Honestly, any kind of degree is, in a way, a fast pass into construction management. You can hop right into construction management right out of school with no relevant experience. You can find a job pretty easy. There is just about every construction firm in the United States hiring graduates. So I would say, I don't want to say it's the easy button, but that's definitely the fastest way to do that. Now, that said, does that make you an effective manager? Absolutely not. And I think there's a lot of managers in the construction industry that are wildly ineffective, that are terrible because they haven't spent as much time in the field as they should have. They don't have that humility. They don't have the total respect for the people out in the field that they should. They don't have the total understanding of the work that they should. And again, like I said earlier in the podcast, I think they start to believe that they're the ones making the project work, not. Not. And instead of them serving the project and those building the project. So a degree is. Is a good way in. I would say, though, if you get a degree, you get into management and you try to bypass the field component, you will get into trouble at some point your career. So do not bypass the field at all. I would go get as much field experience, I would work as many hours in the field as you possibly could early on. It will serve you throughout your entire career. So all that to say, if you have field experience and you don't have a degree, it's still a tremendous asset. But management is a different skill set. You're going not from Doing the work, but from leading the work. So first and foremost, I would say if you want to make that transition or if you're an operator or laborer, you want to go to a crew leader or a superintendent. If you want to stay out in the field but work your way up to a leadership position, I would start to work on leadership. I would read something like extreme ownership. I would read something like dichotomy of leadership. I would lean into one, acknowledging that I'm a leader, and two, learning how to lead effectively no matter what my position was. That includes building better relationships with those around me. That includes my communication skills. That includes my ability to understand and regulate my emotions better. And a lot of that just takes time and practice. I'm practicing it every day. I lead well every day. I fail as a leader every day. But the faster I can learn those lessons and the more I can reflect upon it, the better off I'll be long term. And right now, I'm. I'm a hell of a lot better at communication and leadership than I was just even a year ago, six months ago. And it's. It's really fun to see that, see the progression. So first and foremost, I would say again, it's. It's like, it's like mentorship or getting a raise. You need to be worth the money. Like, if I want to raise, I'm going to go do more than what I'm getting paid to do. Because that. Then when I go ask for more money, my boss, the company I'm working for, they don't. I have the leverage at that point. I have the legitimate leverage. Because it's like, well, I know I'm worth more. I know I'm delivering more value than what I'm getting paid. So pay me more money. And a good employer, a good leader will then pay you the money. You're not using it as ransom, but you're using it as legitimate leverage to say and for them to acknowledge, yeah, you know, Jeff is doing a lot more than we're paying him right now. He has some great points. He is pointing out that his range is below the average salary range for his position in this area. Yeah, we're gonna have to give him a raise. And maybe we can't do that now because here's where we at as a business. But we're gonna communicate that and, and we're gonna say, hey, over the next three months, we're gonna get you there. Or maybe within the next six months, if you do just X as well, we'll get you there or whatever it is. And if that doesn't happen, you are still winning because now you have those skills, now you have those additional abilities, now you've demonstrated your value here so that you can then go to a great employer if your employer currently isn't valuing you. It's the same thing from a leadership standpoint. If I want to get into a leadership position, I better be developing myself as a leader and proving that I'm a leader before I go ask to be a leader. And one, if I'm at a great, great place from an employment standpoint, I might naturally get promoted because I'm delivering so much value, because I'm being so effective. But two, if I'm not naturally promoted, which is fine, and I go ask for that promotion or express my desire to then be at that level, and I'm already demonstrating I'm working up to that level or I'm at that level. It makes that conversation so much easier. There's a lot of people out there that have a victim mentality. And I understand, I know why. I'm not here to blame anybody for it because there's a lot of really shitty employers and we've been shitty at times to people. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's inevitable. I wish we could have avoided these certain situations, but we've made mistakes as an employer. And when you make mistakes as an employer, you let people down, you fail people. And there's also a lot of employers that are complete shitbags. And there's a lot of companies that just suck. They don't, they don't deliberately suck, but just their structure or, or whatever it is, they're just terrible. There's a lot of them, There's a lot of them, but there's a lot of really great companies as well. And I think because of the shitty companies, there's a lot of people that have been abused and there's a lot of people that, that are down, that do have that victim mindset. But you are the only person that gets hurt if you have that victim mentality. And if you continuously look to make the company you're working for, the project you're working on, the team you're working with, better, you are going to be better in the long run. Maybe that's not with the company or the team or project you're on currently, but if you stick with it, you will be better in the long term. So, one, if you want to be a leader, be a leader, no matter your position, develop your leadership skills so that you're worth that promotion, you're worth elevating. It makes the conversation a lot easier. And then ask, have that conversation. If you're not naturally getting promoted, that's fine. You know, companies are busy, there's a lot going on. But expressing your desire, at least if there's not that position available immediately, it puts your leadership on notice. They know who's on the bench and when that time comes, you're going to be top of mind. When we're looking at promoting somebody within this company, we don't sit around and say, you know, who has potential. We first ask who's already demonstrating their potential and value the people that are doing more. They're top of mind to get that promotion, to get that additional salary, whatever it is. I'm telling you, they're top of mind. So you've got to go first and you will win long term with that mentality. Now, it also goes to the employers. I think there's a lot of employers playing victim right now. Oh, we can't find good leaders, we can't find trustworthy people with. We can't find hard working people. I don't have a ton of patience for that anymore. I mean, it makes it better for us because it allows us to hire those people, develop those people to move faster. But as an employer, our workforce is our responsibility. And if we're blaming our workforce or lazy people, whatever it is, that's just me demonstrating that I don't have. I'm not taking responsibility in my workforce. And the best in class companies in the construction industry, they're being realistic. They're saying, yeah, there's a challenge here to overcome. Yeah, our great people are retiring right now. Yeah, these young people aren't coming in as quickly as possible. But that's not reason to roll over. We better figure it out, we better do something about it. And they're doing something about it and they are benefiting more than they ever have as a result. And that gap will only widen over time. So if you want to get into management without a degree, demonstrate that you are worthwhile of being in management, no matter your position. And if you get a degree, you go into management, don't forget who you're serving. Don't try to skip out on your time in the field because it will hurt you long term. So that's four for getting back from Japan last night. I'm actually pretty sharp today. That was pretty good. Thank you for everybody sending in your questions. If you have future questions, or topics to discuss. You can send them at any time to dirt talk billwhit.com or you can DM me on social media, LinkedIn, Instagram, anywhere. Hopefully I'll see it. I get a lot of messages but I try to get to everybody and we always, always always appreciate appreciate you listening. If you found value here, please share it with somebody else and we will see you on the next one. Stay dirty everybody.