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Aaron Witt
For the first time ever, I am thrilled to say we have an official sponsor for the Dirt Talk podcast, and that's Ariat. I've worn Ariat boots on every job site I visited over the years, traveling in them across five continents. More importantly, I have yet to find a single project where working folks, unlike me, are not wearing Ariat boots and workwear in every condition imaginable. And there's really good reason for that, and that's because it's phenomenal stuff. And the more I've learned about Ariat and the company, the more I've loved their brand. So with this, Ariat is offering any dirt talk listener 10% off their next Ariat order at ariat.com dirttalk that's 10% off boots, jeans, and workwear@arianiat.com dirttalk or at the link in this episode's description. With that, let's get to the show. All right. Hi there, everybody. Welcome back. We've got another Monday Dirt Talk episode for you all. We're going to answer more questions. You sick of my questions yet? Hope not. I enjoy this. If you have, before we get into it, questions for me to answer, you can send them directly to either dirt talkillwhat.com or just send them to me. Aaron A a r o nildwit.com Would love to hear from you. Would love to hear anything from you. So if you ever have feedback, thoughts, concerns, whatever you want, send it our way and we will get back to you as quickly as possible. So I have, from the list via social media and the email, picked five questions today. Number one, question one, what is your favorite job site that you have visited? I get this all the time and I don't have a good answer. I have been fortunate enough to visit hundreds and maybe thousands of job sites. At this point, I don't know. I have visited sites in Asia, Europe, South America, North America, Australia, will soon have visited Africa. So I've gotten to see a lot of just amazing stuff around the world across the United States. I love every site is my stupid answer. I give people first and foremost. There are cooler sites, obviously. Like, if you're moving 10 million yards, it's cooler than your backyard project. But I got into this world because of the equipment. I feel like I've stayed because of the people. So what's cooler to me is the skill that the people in this world have. I could not be a bigger fan of people running equipment, pouring concrete, laying pipe, working on equipment, doing the work. It's, it's, it's spectacular to me. And I think watching somebody skilled with a skid steer is just as cool as watching somebody skilled with a 800 ton mining shovel. Skill is skill. It's the people that really make this world. And watching people work and create within the world is what, what gets me going. So I love, I love everything I get to go do and, and I don't really have to go anywhere I go, I go where I go because I want to be there. So every side I go to, I want to, I want to see, I want to visit. That said, when I have to give somebody a legitimate, tangible answer, my mind always first goes to some of the work. Out in the Middle east right now, especially in Saudi Arabia, it's, it's, it's spectacular. I've talked about it, I think on the podcast before, but it's just different, man. They're spending a trillion dollars on infrastructure within Saudi Arabia. They're building brand new cities from scratch. A lot of people, they know of the line, that's been the one that's, that's most publicized. But there is so much work beyond the line, it's not even funny. We went to the Line project. I've been there twice. It's called neom. Overall project. I've seen a lot of neom. You can drive six hours and you're still within the project area. It's just, it's, it's spectacular. The line itself is spectacular. There's a hundred thousand people, thousands, tens of thousands of machines across this area working on it right now. It's as legitimate as any other construction project I've ever seen. It's funny how many people will say things about it when they've never seen it. It's just based on what they've seen on the Internet. When it's like, no, I've been there, I've seen it. I know people working on it. I've been there multiple times. I know exactly where it is. I know how they're putting it together, so on and so forth. Is it going to be successful? I think that's for them to determine. Future state. The project is incomplete. Any project that's incomplete has a question mark over it. But based on what I've seen, I don't see why they wouldn't do what they say they're going to do. I've seen every indication that they're going to do what they say they're going to do. So I, I picked NEOM as the most spectacular project I've seen. And just Saudi Arabia probably the most spectacular country I've visited from a construction and mining standpoint. Because one, when I first went out there I was just very naive, especially from an American perspective. You have a very tainted perspective of the Middle east based on our, I don't know, our, the pandemonium that we've largely been responsible for out there. You go out there, it's I think a beautiful place, beautiful culture, beautiful people. Everything's extraordinary. So one, just the setting itself is so surprising in a good way that it's very enjoyable to be there and the food is just delicious. Two, the work is, is really spectacular. You go out there and again because of that ignorant American perspective that I and many others have, you go in thinking it's going to be like third world mining and construction. But it's, it's not, it's, it's, it's as good as anywhere I've seen. There's some things to be desired in some places, but most operations are, are very buttoned up. They're using modern equipment, big equipment and they're using a lot of it. So just the scale of everything is, is mind boggling. I mean you drive through Neom and like over to the right would be the biggest earth moving project in America and then over to the left would also be the biggest earth moving project in America. And you drive down the highway a little bit and then there's another one. It's like this would be the biggest earth moving project. It's just non stop. We went to the port to see the port expansion. We saw all of the surrounding infrastructure. If you're building a new city, you need water infrastructure, wastewater infrastructure, data infrastructure, transportation, a new airport, a new port. We got to see all of that surrounding infrastructure take place. And it's, I can't say enough good things about the scale, the scope and the ambition of it all. And for me I find a very, I find it very hard to criticize anything they're doing because they're spending their money on their country and their infrastructure and they're going all in on the future of, of, of. Of Saudi Arabia. Whereas the United States, we're spending a lot of our money outside of of the United States for very little if, if not negative value. While our infrastructure only ages and crumbles and doesn't look very good. It's a little disappointing to go to most other foreign cities I've been to and see them just look a lot nicer and function a lot better than our cities do. And that's because they invest A lot more in infrastructure and get a lot more out of it than we have over the past few decades. I think we're behind and that's why I like going abroad to see how other people do it. And the Middle east is one of those regions that I am absolutely in love with. And hopefully we go back later this year. So that answers that number two, what are your thoughts on autonomous equipment? This is another one a lot of people on the Internet have many opinions about. But these opinion, these people on the Internet have never been around autonomous equipment, which I find funny. They know so much about it, but they've never actually seen it. Go figure. I think autonomous equipment, to summarize, is a great tool. I don't think it's the end all be all. I don't think it's a, it's a solution to any kind of labor challenge. I think it's another tool, it's another technology that the industry can utilize to be better. I have seen autonomous operations on the eastern side of Australia, in Queensland, in Western Australia, in Canada, up in Alberta. And then I've seen some smaller scale autonomous operations here or there. Every time I have, I have had my socks knocked off. To see a 400 ton truck hauling oil sand with no driver 24 hours a day, 7 days a week is spectacular. So the technology itself is really remarkable, really dialed in. They've been doing it for over 20 years. So these operations are very well oiled machines. And that is one, the technology is pretty spectacular. Two, it makes the operation more efficient. I think the iron mine was, was, was a great example of this. The trucks based on the drilling knew what kind of or grade. You know, the excavator knew what kind of or grade it was in based on the drilling. Then the trucks would know what kind of or grade the excavator was putting onto the back of it. And then based on what the plant needed at any one time, the or grade necessary for the plant to create the blend that they needed. The trucks would optimize themselves and go to the different shovels based on what shovel was in the right or grade. And so the, the shovels in the right stuff would get more trucks, the shovels with less stuff would get a little less truck. The whole place was optimizing itself. And there is this notion that big companies just extract value and take advantage of people, which they do. There's plenty of that going on in the world. But being on the other side of it, running a company, I also know that the better the company runs the more efficient the company is, the more money we make as a company, the better off our people are. The more tools we can invest in, the further we can invest in other things. The more we can innovate, the more we can do R and D, et cetera. All of it revolves around money. And that's the conversation most people don't want to have. But it's reality. People here, they don't. They're not here because they love being here, first and foremost. They're not here because they're just so passionate about what we're doing, first and foremost. They are here because we pay them money to do a job. And if we stopped paying our people money, no matter how bought in we are, they are. No matter how good our culture is, no matter how good the opportunities are, they would be on to the next one. That's my priority, is making sure our people get paid. That's a company's priorities, making sure people get paid. The more efficient operation can run, the better our margins, the more we can pay people, invest in people, so on and so forth. Now, it doesn't always happen that way, but the best companies, that is how it happens. I see it all the time. And I think autonomous equipment is, is a great, great way for those companies to work more efficiently, effectively and produce the materials our world needs for a little less money. Now, all of that said as well. Another thing I ask, whenever I go to these autonomous operations, I ask the people working around them, what do you think? And I have not heard anything negative on any of these operations from anybody I've talked to, from operators to managers to people doing maintenance. And that is because the trucks just run better autonomously. They are less beat up because they're optimized. They're running exactly how they should. They back in exactly where they should every time, where that excavator operator needs them. They're very predictable. They can run more. There's no brakes, there's no shift change. They can run in theory, 24 hours a day. They just need fuel. They can run in certain situations while there's blasting going on. You don't need to shut your whole fleet down because they don't have people within them. There's all kinds of flexibility and all kinds of advantages that these trucks offer. And just having that, having those wrinkles ironed out, it makes the operation better for everybody else there. It's not cutting jobs, it's moving jobs elsewhere and making those jobs more enjoyable for the people doing them. And it also allows these people New to the industry, to move up a little faster. And I know that's a, a controversial thing for some people because it's like, well, I did my seven years in a truck, so you need to do your seven years too. But a lot of people don't want to do seven years in a truck. So they get into a truck, they'll do their time, but then, all right, I'm not moving up. They probably just leave the mining industry and we all suffer as a result. Whereas the autonomous trucks, since they're autonomous, it allows the people that want to get into equipment operation to run other things, like a dozer, like a grader, like support equipment, and then work their way into those production units, loaders, excavators, etc. A little bit faster. It's the same thing on civil applications. I think the first autonomous thing I've seen in a civil application is a roller. Because who the hell wants to be on a roller all day for 8 hours, 10 hours, 12 hours? Anybody? Anybody? Like, I don't know, maybe there's some guy out there that just loves rolling, just loves it, lives for rolling. There's probably that guy out there. But most everybody does not want to do that job. It's a very important job, but people don't want to do it because it's rough, it's repetitive, it's miserable. So if we can have a computer go back and forth, back and forth while optimizing what's happening from a compaction standpoint, why would we not do that? And, and are we in a position to just not do that? And yes, there are downsides. Now somebody doesn't have that entry level position now, that person isn't learning how a fill comes together. That roller is probably the best place to be to understand how compaction works, how fills work, etc, but if we can offer them training elsewhere, we do need to offer, offer them that training in a different way. We can't just remove them from that position and think they're gonna figure out how a fill works without that education. But if we can do that, if we can do things a little differently, why wouldn't we use this additional tool to make things better? And again, I see this a lot. The biggest thing is, well, because I was miserable, you need to be miserable too. But that's a really shitty perspective. It's a losing mentality and that's not gonna get the industry into the future. So I, I'm pro autonomous equipment. I know it's a controversial opinion, but I'm pro autonomous Equipment after learning about it, after seeing it in different applications, and after talking with the people that work around it. And it is, I think, a great thing, but in very specific applications. Will it ever be more than like even a percent of what the heck's going on the industry? Not anytime soon. Am I at threatened as an equipment operator because of autonomous equipment? If I was thinking that I. It's, it's, it's. I understand why, but I don't think it's rational or I must not be a very good operator. I think anybody that's worthwhile on a machine is going to have a very long career ahead of them, whether they're in civil construction, mining, regardless of autonomy. I'll also say before I end here that the equipment manufacturers are talking a lot about autonomy right now. And in some ways I think they're talking too much about it. I think it's a little tone deaf. I think they're acting in some situations that I've seen like it's the solution for a workforce challenge. It's not, it's just another tool and, and positioning it as the solution, I just think is. Is very tone deaf to what the heck actually goes on on job sites. So I would encourage them to go out to a job site and see what the heck's going on before they trumpet it as the solution. It's a solution to a problem, but just a small piece of the puzzle at the end of the day. Next up, how can I find companies to sell equipment to? This is a guy, he is a new equipment salesman trying to build a book of business break into the industry. And whether you're selling equipment, you're selling software, you're selling anything to construction companies. I've sold to construction companies, civil construction companies since I began. I was first selling them photos, then social media, then websites, then branding, then videos, now software and events. With our Ariat Dirt World Summit, step one is building a legitimate relationship. That is all I spend my time on, is building relationships and not to sell people stuff, just to build relationships. Once I have earned people's trust, once I have built that relationship, selling them things naturally becomes part of the conversation. But at that point I view it as helping them. I believe in our products. I believed in the marketing creative work we did back then. I believe in the software, the build it improve software we have now, helping people train and improve their workforce every day, improve their leaders every day. I'm a huge believer in that and I'm a huge believer in the area Dirt World Summit. I think it's the best industry event every year. We're in our third year and I think based on what, what we've done and what I've seen, I think it's the most valuable event of the year. So once I've built that trust, once we've built that relationship, helping that individual or company becomes a lot easier. They're more likely to listen to what I have to say because we have that relationship. They know I have their best interests in mind. I'm not going to sell them a bunch of shit. And I believe what we're selling, what I have to offer will help them and make their business better, make their workforce better, solve their problems, which is why I'm helping to build this business in the first place, and that's that. And you end up with successful sales, successful opportunities as a result. So we've never sold, quote, unquote. We have a sales team. They are cold calling, they are doing sales things, but they are met with, I think, more success than if it was really just cold, cold, cold sales. Because we have an overall brand that I've helped build alongside others here at the business. We have earned some trust within the industry and we have earned the, the right to have that initial conversation. Now, does that mean we're, we've earned the sale? No, we have to have a great product, we have to have a great event offering, whatever it is, but we've at least earned our, our, our seat at the table so we can explain what the heck's going on. And then from there we have to let our product, our offering, our solution for them carry us the rest of the way. And then we have to deliver upon that solution and that then helps with the subsequent sales. Like for the summit, for example. First summit, we had to sell every single ticket individually and we had to sell a vision because the event didn't exist yet. I couldn't say, look at what happened last year, because last year wasn't a thing. It was, here's what you're going to get out of it, one by one by one. And then we delivered upon it. Year two, easier to sell. Now we're into year three. It's been much easier to sell. We've sold more tickets this year. I'm sitting here April 1st. We've sold more tickets for this year's event in November than we did for the entire first event based on what we've delivered. Year one, year two. So we earned trust. So we got into those conversations to begin with. They took my phone calls, texts, emails, they considered coming to our first event. They trusted us enough to then give us money so we could make the sale for them to come to that event. And then based on what I've delivered, what we've delivered in year one, year two, we can sell year three a lot more effectively. So if I was trying to break into the market, I would focus exclusively on building relationships, on understanding these people's problems and then figuring out how I could solve their problems, not how to make a sale. How can I solve their problems? And maybe it's selling them what I have to offer, but maybe it's, hey, actually I don't have the right machine for you, but here's who does. Or hey, I know you want this machine from us, but actually, based on what I've heard from other customers, I've heard this will be better for you on, based on your application that will end up in you making more sales long term. I promise you that. This world is very heavy on trust, on people's word, on handshake, on doing what you say you're going to do. There's not a lot of bullshit in construction in the dirt world. That's why I love it, that's why people stay here. But don't bring your bullshit into here or else you're not going to be all that effective from a sales standpoint. Next one. Why is reclamation in mining rarely shown? I would argue it's because mining is rarely shown. Reclamation is a key part of mining, but mining isn't really shown. So if it's a key part, it doesn't matter if we're not showing mining in general, we're just not going to show reclamation what happens after the mining. So for you that don't know reclamation is a requirement. If I am going to go start a mine tomorrow, I'm going to start Aaron's aggregate mine. I'm going to go mine for rocks. I'm going to make rocks for, for this market. I, to get the permits required for that mine, need to prove that I have a viable plan to reclaim or to utilize that mine in a different way. Future state. So I'm not just leaving behind a hole in the ground. It gets even more advanced with things like coal because of the Clean Air act and some other things that happened many decades ago. Coal mines. If I'm going to go mine coal, I am required to go put money aside for the reclamation so that even if my company goes bankrupt, the government has money there, has a bond that they can use to ensure that land is reclaimed. And that land also has to be continuously reclaimed. So as the coal mine's advancing, reclamation's coming right behind it. And what's happening in reclamation is they're, they're covering up the hole and then they're replacing the subsoil and the topsoil, which is really important because that's the, the nutrients necessary for the vegetation, et cetera, to grow. And then they're replanting whatever was there before, whether it was native or whether it was farmland. And then they're proving that it's viable land, it's growing things as it should be growing things, and then they turn it over. So by the time you've got 10 years down the road from the mining, oftentimes you can't even tell it was mined. It is so amazing, the reclamation done within this industry, not just in the United States, but worldwide. Now that's really becoming the global standard in most markets. And it's a great story, but again, it's just not told because the mining industry is just not really telling its story, which is a huge shame. And so I think there's a lot of people in mining sitting around saying, well, why is everybody so anti mining? It's because the mining industry has said, you know, we're gonna give other people the narrative, and we're gonna give other people the narrative because we're just not gonna control the story whatsoever. We're, we're, we're tired of the litigation, we're tired of the permitting, the environmentalists, so on and so forth. So we're just going to go hide in our hole. We've got our permits, we've got, we're good to go. We're just going to go hide in our hole. It's easier to do that, but by hiding. Now, here you go. Whoever wants the narrative, by all means go run with it. And that's exactly what's happened, is all these other groups have run with these wild narratives that are now believed to be reality. They're not reality. But the mining industry is at fault. At the end of the day, the mining industry has given everybody the ability to go run with the narrative. And now people think, one, mining's terrible, two, mining doesn't exist, especially in a market like the United States. That's not true. Mining is 100% necessary for any human's life right now, just about any human's life in modern society. So if you're in the middle of the Amazon. No, but if you're living in modern society, if you have a car, a Smartphone, electricity, water, food, etc. That's all from mining. It's necessary and we can also do it in a great way. And so things are not going to improve until the mining industry is at scale. Telling this story, showing the reality of mining. Hey, yeah, we dig holes. This is why. Because you need the copper, we're producing the iron, we're producing coal, we're producing aluminum aggregate. You can go down the list, potash down the list, gold. You need this stuff. We're producing what you need. However, not only are we producing what you need, but when we're done here, this is what happens and this is how we are good stewards of the land that's been entrusted to us. Both of those things can be true. One, we can produce what we need. Two, we can be good stewards while we do it. But until we're talk, until we're telling that story, the narrative will not change. And there are some great companies out there telling that story. But in the grand scheme of things, it is still the vast minority. And for our last question, number five, will you expand, build, whip into Europe soon? No, we will not. Funny enough, I'm going to Europe next week. We're going to Bauma, which I'm very excited about. Then we go see some construction operations throughout Germany, we go see some operations up in the Netherlands, and then we finish up in Italy. I'm very excited. I've been working on this trip for a while. We spent quite a while last year in Europe. This will be my fourth visit to Germany and Europe in general. The eu, I think we have a lot to learn from the Europeans when it comes to how we build stuff in America. I think they're further along for a few different reasons, as I've discussed in previous episodes. So I love going over there to see what they do, learn what they do, and then share that with as many people as possible because I think it can help elevate the entire industry. But from a business standpoint. So I'll always be visiting Europe from a video from a content perspective, but from a business standpoint, we're still a very small business. We're now after we've sold the creative business. We're at about a little under 50 people. We're the smallest we've been in quite a few years. I think we're the most effective we've been in quite a few years. I love the size we're at right now. Will we grow over time? Absolutely. As we grow the software business, that's really the future. Opportunity for us. But there's, there's a lot we have to figure out within the US market. We're still refining our product, we're still understanding our product market fit, we're still understanding how to serve smaller customers, medium sized customers, big customers. We're still understanding how to implement effectively what kind of content we need to support the platform. There's all kinds of questions that we need to provide answers to within the United States States before we even think about going abroad. And that's going to take years of work to make our product absolutely remarkable within the current market. Now, is there opportunities abroad? Absolutely. But until we have a phenomenal product here, we have no right to look beyond where we are. It's not productive for our current customers, it's not productive for our business. So say we answer all of those questions. We will at some point. I don't know when that will be. We answer all of those questions. Where, where would the first market be? Where the business would expand into? The EU would not be it, because the EU has too many different cultures, customs and languages. I think the natural first step would be Canada. We've been in Canada a little bit, but I actually think the best market for us outside of the United States is Australia. Culturally, I think it's most similar to America. The way they do work, I think is most similar to America. And the seasons are opposite. So when they're busy there, we're slower here. When they're slower there, we're busy here. So it works quite nicely from a business sense as well. But no matter what country we go to, it's going to require us to build country specific content because their safety standards are different, equipment standards a little bit different, specs are a little bit different. And so it's, it's just a big undertaking. It requires a lot of capital, a lot of investment. We're not in the the place to make that investment. We don't need to make that investment right now. We need to be investing in the product in our current market. And, and that is where our focus lies. I have had my ass kicked for too long now, looking elsewhere, looking for other opportunities. Oh, there's a shiny thing over there. Oh, there's shiny thing over there. I'm tired of getting my ass kicked by running around. I think our business is tired as well. So that's why this year we've said, hey, we're just going to go all in on what's right in front of us and be really fucking good at that. And then we can figure out what's next. So that is where Buildwit is at in a nutshell, and that is why we are not expanding as a business into Europe anytime soon. But that said, you will definitely see me in the EU this year and for many years to come. So that is five Questions I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you have questions, thoughts like I said beginning of the podcast, please send them my way. You can send them to the Dirt Talk email dirt talkillwhit.com you can send them to my email aaronbillwood.com I would love to hear from you. I check my emails. If you're if you're messaging me online, it's me. I promise it's me. I have nothing better to do. I have no kids. I don't even have a fucking dog. I have nothing better than to sit on my couch and respond to your messages. Support Please message me or else I'm very lonely. If you enjoyed the episode, feel free to share it on social media. Share it with others who may enjoy it. It's a huge help and thanks as always for listening. We'll see you on the next one. Stay Dirty.