Paul Jones w/ Solomon Builders – DT 390

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dirt Talk by BuildWitt

Episode: Paul Jones w/ Solomon Builders – DT 390
Date: November 13, 2025
Host: Aaron Witt
Guest: Paul Jones, President of Solomon Builders

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Episode Overview

This episode of Dirt Talk features a candid, in-depth conversation between Aaron Witt and Paul Jones, President of Nashville-based Solomon Builders. The episode centers on the evolution and resilience of Solomon Builders following the unexpected death of its founder, Ty Osmond, in 2020, and dives into topics of leadership, company culture, personal growth, the construction industry's changing dynamics, and the deeper purpose of building. Aaron and Paul also compare experiences in endurance sports, the importance of stress, and the value of real-life perspective (including memorable stories from mission trips).

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Company Evolution & Growth through Adversity

• Navigating Sudden Leadership Change:
  • Solomon Builders faced a crisis in 2020 when founder Ty Osmond died suddenly. His widow, Nancy, unexpectedly inherited the business.
    • “She came in and basically said, I don’t know anything about construction… I know about people and I know that this was what we were working towards… if you keep showing up, I’ll keep showing up.” — Paul (35:29)
• Succession Planning & Values:
  • Ty empowered his successors with clear, if unwritten, principles: hire good people, focus on mission and values, and trust the team to figure out the details.
  • The “exchange zone” analogy from relay racing: “Companies fail in the exchange zone. You can run all the fastest segments…but if the exchange isn’t right, they lose.” (36:00)
• Codifying Culture:
  • Pre-2020, culture and values were lived, not written. The new leadership made defining and writing down mission, vision, and values a top priority after Ty’s death.
  • Mission: “We build people, relationships, communities, and great buildings.” (32:36)
    • People come first; the lasting impact is on communities and relationships, not just the physical outcome.

2. Personal and Organizational Growth

• Learning from Hardship:
  • Both Aaron and Paul discuss how true growth comes from facing setbacks and discomfort, not just reading or secondhand advice.
  • “There’s no avoiding it…you’ve got to just touch the stove.” — Aaron (04:11)
• Grit, Challenge & Stress:
  • The difference between “distress” and “eustress” (beneficial stress): facing professional hardship can build organizational muscle, if handled right.
  • “That’s how your body builds muscle… we’ve built the muscle and now we’re ready to run.” — Paul (09:36)
  • The company values grit as a pre-requisite for hiring and success—building people who seek excellence through challenge.

3. Culture, Leadership, and Scaling

• Maintaining Culture Beyond the Founder:
  • Real culture can persist if values are authentic and owned at every level, not just emulated from the founder’s personality.
  • “It’s hard to define. But you know it when you see it.” — Paul (44:43)
  • Scaling culture is one of Solomon’s greatest ongoing challenges; becoming bigger can dilute relationships and soul.
• Hiring and People Development:
  • Focus on “hiring adults” and trusting them rather than over-managing or obsessing over rules; embracing common sense and adaptability.
  • Investing in young people and non-traditional career paths (e.g., hiring and advancing a high school grad as an APM, supporting online learning) is a point of pride and excitement. (77:19-80:19)
  • “To have the freedom to give a guy like that a chance…like, no, you don’t need a degree. Come on, dude.” — Paul (80:22)

4. Industry Changes, Challenges, and Observations

• Dynamics in Construction:
  • The local vs. mega-GC split: Local GCs are more connected to their communities, relationships, and the impact of their projects, while national/international GCs have become “soulless” and driven by contracts, litigation, and profit at the cost of relationships. (64:32–66:28)
  • Rapid project inflation is attributed more to market behaviors than macroeconomic policy like tariffs; the real world impact of tariffs on mid-sized GC projects is often overstated. (55:34)
  • “For us, the percent of tariffs on the percent of material, on the percent of total project—usually not that much…so might there be an increase? Maybe. Is it worth sidelining it? I wouldn’t.” — Paul (54:57)
• Purpose-Driven Projects:
  • Solomon focuses on projects with community impact: churches, nonprofits, YMCAs, counseling centers, emphasizing that the firm’s impact is “affiliation to what that building accomplishes.” (62:43, 91:35)

5. Building Perspective through Service and Travel

• Mission Trips & Broadening Worldview:
  • Company-sponsored international mission trips (Honduras) to build houses and offer medical missions—intended to build employee camaraderie and perspective.
  • “You stand in it, smell it, see it, experience it…it is just this perspective you cannot deny, and you cannot get rid of it.” — Paul, describing the dump in Honduras (86:56)
  • The company pays for the trips, reflecting their commitment to building people, not just business outcomes. (88:59)

6. Humor, Humanity, and Memorable Moments

• Frequent banter about “adult business,” the perils of too many rules, wearing hard hats/gloves when not needed, and the “fake” nature of industry “growth awards.”
• Joking about office culture, such as the jackalope trophy instead of a wall of awards (100:07).
• Stories about characters in construction: the superintendent roasting young guys about running or working out, and unexpected moments of seeing people’s humanity in mundane market visits abroad. (112:09–112:51)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “You can’t really separate it. Like, you can’t say, man, I’m so glad I have these lessons…without separating it from the hard lessons along the way. Like, man, I really had to go through that.” — Paul (03:38)
• “I can’t teach it. I just hope that they have to go through hard stuff, because that’s how you get it. There’s only one way to get it.” — Aaron (04:49)
• “Our mission is: we build people, relationships, communities, and great buildings. It was always intentional…your buildings are actually not the most important thing to us.” — Paul (32:36)
• “No one has disrespectful as a value.” — Aaron (32:32)
• “If we get the order wrong (people over projects), the whole thing falls apart.” — Paul (33:35)
• “If I have to tell you all 50 steps to get there, are you the person, are you the team?...Companies fail in the exchange zone.” — Paul (36:00)
• “Individual time…If you eliminate that, that’s a recipe for disaster.” — Aaron (16:17)
• “When you become so big…there’s so many products you have to sell to keep someone happy you’ll never meet in your life…It calls you out of those relationships, out of those things you really need to do to have an impact.” — Paul (68:37)
• “I mean, the only reason what we do is impressive is because it’s affiliated with them. Our people are good at it, but as far as, like, that idea of having an impact, it’s our affiliation to what that building is gonna accomplish.” — Paul (91:35)
• “What’s the hardest part (of Ironman)? …You’re having to orient yourself really fast… you can’t see anything, and there’s not like a lane.” — Aaron (108:48-109:09)
• “Our only trophy in our office is the jackalope…that’s pretty cool.” — Paul (100:08)
• “The only problem we have is if we get to the end of the year, and someone’s not taking their vacation because that’s indicative—hey, you’re burning out…that’s a problem.” — Paul (107:10)

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Timestamps of Important Segments

| Time | Segment/Topic | | ------------ | ----------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–05:13 | Resilience, learning from tragedy, maturity in leadership | | 06:27–09:53 | Stress, eustress vs distress, building grit | | 26:03–38:05 | Story of Ty’s death, succession, mission/values codified | | 49:01–55:34 | Market conditions, project inflation, tariffs | | 62:43–66:28 | Local vs mega-GCs, community impact, relationships | | 77:19–80:22 | Innovative hiring, young talent, degree vs experience | | 88:59–90:21 | Mission trips, perspective, company paying for experiences| |100:07–100:30 | The jackalope trophy & philosophy about “awards” |

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Tone, Language, and Style

The tone is conversational, genuine, and self-deprecating, with plenty of humor and unguarded honesty. Both speakers highlight lessons learned, the importance of humility, and avoiding corporate pretentiousness. The episode is filled with stories and life lessons, offering practical insight for professionals at every level of the construction industry, as well as those interested in leadership, company culture, and personal development.

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Final Takeaways

• Mission and purpose matter most: People and relationships are at the core of Solomon’s mission.
• Culture must be lived, not just written: Surviving leadership transitions requires foundational, shared values.
• Growth is not always good: Relentless expansion can hurt people and culture; “bad revenue is not worth it.”
• Service and discomfort build perspective: Direct experiences, especially outside one's comfort zone, are life’s best teachers.
• Work is about more than widgets: True fulfillment comes from seeing projects as contributions to communities and lives.

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This episode is rich with industry wisdom, leadership insights, and classic construction stories—an essential listen for anyone interested in what it takes to build a lasting company and a meaningful career in construction.

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Transcript

[A]

This Dirt Talk podcast episode is with Paul Jones of Salomon Builders. Paul is president of Salomon Builders, a Nashville based general contractor who's performed notable work like the Ramsey Solutions headquarters and the Nashville Zoo. After a tragic event in 2020 put the company's future in question. They've been on a journey to define who they are and double down on it. Paul, I got to know him as I've moved to Nashville. Salomon is as well respected as it gets in the construction world here. They have had a crazy few years. Freak accident in 2020, as I said, put the company into question. It put people like Paul and the. And the leaders at Salomon somewhat up against the wall and made them really choose what they were going to do or they going to panic or were they going to do what they knew what was right. Do. Do what they knew was right. And they clearly have done that and far more. I have so much respect for Paul, so much respect for Solomon, and it is just a blast catching up with them. Usually it's over coffee this time. I figured, why not just catch up on the podcast. So here we are. I had a lot of fun with this one. I hope you have fun listening to it. And let's get right into it. We're like learning how to be an actual company this year, like an actual software company.

[B]

That's not. I feel like you do that every year and I say. You including me.

[A]

Yeah, you do.

[B]

Like, it's just part of the process.

[A]

That is business. Yeah.

[B]

100%.

[A]

Yeah. But yeah, it's been like, really good to just get focused on like, what are the important numbers for the business, where do we need to be going? How do we track those numbers? How do we stay ahead of the. Like, it's. It's very much like, oh, this is like adult business.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We're not playing business.

[B]

Not the adult business, but yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

That's a different business.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, no, no, that's Vegas.

[B]

Making sure I still understand your business model.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

Yeah. Like, man, you have dirt talk. Is, you know, is there a why up there? I gotta go.

[A]

A real pivot. Yeah.

[B]

Gotta pay the bills.

[A]

I don't know. Real pivot.

[B]

Gotta pay the bills. Yes.

[A]

You know, you see an opportunity to serve the. Right.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

No, it's been. Yeah, it's like we've been. We've been growing up, which is. Which is good. It's the first year of my life where it's like I've. I've noticed the Benefit of life experience, if that makes sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like, you'll just approach a situation with this level of maturity that's like, oh, like, this is what wisdom is. Then it's like, I'm at, like, the very baby stage of that because I'm 30, but it's like, for the first time in my life, I'm benefiting from hard lessons learned.

[B]

No, absolutely.

[A]

Like, you stack them up at this point, like, oh, okay. Like, doesn't make it easier, but it's like, at least I kind of know where to go.

[B]

Well, if you look. I mean, I was thinking about this on the drive here because I was like, man, you and I last sat down in here in 22.

[A]

It's crazy.

[B]

It's. I mean, that's insane.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I was. I looked at the picture, and I was like, I. I literally look like Obama now after his eight years. I was like, man, it took eight years of running the country, three years as a general contractor, and I look like him.

[A]

Ye.

[B]

I was laughing the way here, but you can't really separate it. Like, you can't say, man, I'm so glad I have these lessons and I'm learning and I'm progressing, and, like, I can actually see and feel the maturity and now feel the benefit of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Without separating it from. You don't have the grades, but, like, without separating from the hard lessons along the way. Like, man, I really had to go through that. Like, there was no other way for me to be where I am today without having gone through that. It's just. Yeah, you wish you could do it differently, but you can.

[A]

No. No, you can't. Like, you can't. You cannot. You know, people talk about, like, avoiding, you know, hard lessons by reading books and this, and it's like, the more I've gotten into it, the more I'm like, there's no avoiding. No, you cannot. You've got to just touch the stove.

[B]

You got to.

[A]

It doesn't. I haven't seen anybody else skip that part. There was a. I saw something online today. It was something along the lines of, like, you know, just how somebody. This guy was saying, like, I can't teach somebody grit. I can just hope that they experience hardship.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Something along those lines, like, I can't teach. I can't teach it. I just hope that they have to go through hard stuff because that. That's how you get it. There's only one way to get it.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And that hard is different for everybody. Some people it's growing up in a war zone, some people. It's getting bullied in high school, whatever it is. And in business, there's, like, varying degrees, too. But hard is hard.

[B]

That's right. Yeah. I mean, it's funny. It's like. Like part of the curse of, like, living in the most prosperous nation and the most prosperous time. And when there's, like, there's more ease in life than there ever has been. And that's, like, been totally catapulted, even through Covid. I mean, we were laughing the other day. I was like, man, my kids. My kids are. Now we have four kids, and they're anywhere from like, 7 to 12. They don't really have context anymore for the grocery store, which seems crazy. It's like, I work, my wife works. They're all in school. Like, we kind of live and breathe off instacart and just some of that convenience. But my wife and I were like, man, are we doing. I think we're doing them a disservice to where when we early on in having kids, like, they had to go to the grocery store. They had to just wait. They had. We had to tell them no, like, a thousand times. Like, no, no, no, no, no. And so, like, I think we're gonna, like, get back to that. Like, hey, we can't just do this every week forever. Like, we have to go teach the kids. You walk down the aisles, you say no, you say yes. You make choices, you wait in line, you check out, you pay for it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because they can. Just, like, the amount of convenience is. It's kind of terrifying if you think about raising, like, another generation in that. And so that's kind of been the case. And, like, work has had its stress, too, through Covid, but there's been ease to it. I mean, it's just changed a lot the last. Even since you and I talked last.

[A]

Well, that isn't. But isn't that funny? Like, to raise your kids better, you have to take them to the grocery store.

[B]

Well, it's like, it show what. It shows the level of, like, convenience.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

That we have to, like. We actually have to make a conscious effort to introduce challenge. Because, like, if we're not careful. And we can do it personally, too. It's like, I'm not excluded from this. We can easily just make the decision all the time. Like, well, let's just have someone do that. Let's not do that anymore. Let's order that. And you're like, man, I don't know if we Had a guy come into our office early in Covid, and I'm glad he did, to talk to our team, because it was in that time when. I mean, honestly, it was probably like, 22, 23.

[A]

You were going through it.

[B]

We were going through it as a company. I mean, my life was kind of crazy, just with tiny kids, a lot of them, that. And our people felt it. Like everything was hard, like, Covid was still going on. We had just lost our founder. There's a lot of grief around that. And so. And then work wasn't that fun. It was like you just were going around telling clients bad news all the. And I was like, we have a group of people who get into this industry. They like challenge, but they like to have success. So, like, the challenge isn't that fun without any success. Not that it's gonna be victory all the time, but you want wins. I mean, that's like, winning drive is one of our values. And it's. We say that because, I mean, we want people who seek excellence through challenge because they know they'll be better on the other side, and they know that's what growth. That's what it takes to grow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so we had a guy come into our office, though, because without the success through Covid, it was just, hey, we can't get this. We can't get that. We're delayed. We can't get manpower. You just felt like, man, this is bad news everywhere. And so it was interesting. We had a guy come in and talk about the different types of physiological stress where he's like, there's distress and there's eustress, which is like, eu. I'm not smart enough. But he was like, distress is just bad. There's really no upside to it. The other type of stress that people don't. It all feels the same. It's uncomfortable. But he said the other stress is actually how your body builds muscle. And it was interesting to make that, to call that out for people to see, like, hey, this isn't a forever thing. It's been different than before. I mean, we kind of were spoiled before COVID where there was just. There was endless money, there was endless manpower. It felt like, sure. And then when all that gets pinched, you realize, like, wow, I've actually got to try a lot harder than I thought I ever would.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so by kind of clarifying those two different stresses, it was easier for people to process, like, oh, there's a point to this. And I think that's what we're starting to feel now of. Okay, we, like, we've been doing the work and now we feel like we've built the muscle and now we're ready to run.

[A]

Well, and the more you're, you're under stress, the better you can tolerate it too. Yeah, like, I, that's what I've got with, you know, travel or exercise. Like, I travel a lot and travel, there's just a lot of stress. You can't control all the variables, this and that. And so you can see, like, it's, to me, almost comical watching people lose it at the airport when just one thing goes wrong.

[B]

Yeah. You're like, this is literally all the time.

[A]

Yes, yes. Like, they're, they have such a low tolerance to any kind of stress that they just emotionally don't know how to handle it. Like, oh, my God. He says, like, I can't do this. Well, I don't know. My flight's late. What, what, what do we do? It's like, well, I don't know. You. You get on the flight when it takes off. Yeah, I'm going to miss my next flight. Okay, well, then you.

[B]

Sounds like you're rescheduled on the next one.

[A]

It's. It's not that hard. But the more you subject yourself to stress or even like, you know, in a week I have a full triathlon and full Ironman, full Iron man. And I've, I've. It's still a little scary. It is. It's like I have to respect it. It's a, It's a long day and there's a lot that can go wrong, but it's, it's. To me, it's like kind of normal because I've done it enough now and I've like, adjusted to that. But then to somebody that hasn't been around that, it's insane. And I'm not saying, like, I'm amazing. It's just like I've just subjected myself to this level of stress in the physical sense of it for enough time now where it's like. And even, even how I show up to the race is a little bit different. Like, I don't have the same angst that I once did. Like, I just have a plan. I just do my job. I just like. Because I've been there before and it's like, oh, I've been here and you can almost like you're still under that stress, but you can almost be a little bit more comfortable with it if that makes sense or just know how to handle it a little bit better.

[B]

It's Funny. Like, my, you know, my wife's big runner and she did Boston this year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's. It's like, as a next level non runner, I would be like the 0.0 guy. Sticker on the window.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But my wife, she, like, she started running and she's always running, but it hit a new level. And so she. Right after we had kids, she ran a marathon. It was that one in Nashville. Music City was really hot. And she didn't at that point, training, because she was training by herself. So training was just like, I'm just gonna go keep running further. I'm gonna download some kind of marathon training plan and do it. And so I forget you ran like, it was like four and a half hours. And it was when people were falling out everywhere. It was hot. Well, fast forward another year or two. She got connected with a group of people in Nashville that run all the time, and it's like all walks of life and ages, which is crazy to watch. So it's. You've got men and women probably like 25, probably the youngest, in their mid-20s, all the way to like late 50s, maybe 60s. And what's been. They're super organized. They're on a. It's a wild text thread, but it'll be like, hey, we're starting at 5:15 here. We'll be here at 5:28. We'll be here at. And so people just kind of join in where they can, but they run every day. Every day. And it's interesting to see, like, the accountability. But then all these people now, and like, with watches and like, technology has changed so much in five years and how they understand heart rate and zone training and all this. They'll have speed days, long days, recovery days, all this stuff to where the next marathon she ran, she shaved an hour off. She was just like. And it was four years later. And that's where she qualified for Boston. In Boston. She did really well. Qualified for it again.

[A]

She's qualifying for Boston. I know I've done it once, barely.

[B]

I don't understand.

[A]

And it was the stars aligned. And now I'm like, I don't think I could do it ever again.

[B]

Well, she would say the stars aligned. And dude, it was that group. She's like, if it wasn't for the accountability, the encouragement, the push, and just the confidence that they would give her to say they're old. Like, some of the. It's weird. The women get so much faster. She's like, probably the fastest woman in the group's in her mid to late 50s run Boston a bunch. And, like, she's still getting faster.

[A]

That's incredible.

[B]

So it's wild because, I mean, the male body doesn't do that, but, man, they just keep running faster. But what's interesting, like, she's gotten. And you're probably like this. But she's gotten in that pattern and that habit and that routine. I was like, where? If you were to tell me, hey, you need to go run for me, it'd be like two miles but a long day. I mean, I would be so stressed. Where. Now it's been such a pattern, such a habit. She's reaped and seen the reward of it. Now the stress is totally inversed. It's like, oh, now I get stressed. She literally, like, if she's not running, that's what stresses her.

[A]

Yeah. Yes.

[B]

She's like, I get so stressed if I can't run.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is like.

[A]

But she's probably. If it's like most other people I know, she's like. She's probably more chill just across the board as a result.

[B]

100%.

[A]

Like, if you're. I don't think humans are all that different from dogs.

[B]

No.

[A]

Like, if you don't walk your dog, and especially when they're young with a bunch of energy, they go chew the damn house up. It's like, listen, this is your fault, not mine. I've got this energy. I've got to get it out those shoes, they're mine.

[B]

And she knows it. I mean, she'll say, like, I've got to go run. I can feel.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I'm out of sorts. I'm out of balance, like, because I'm looking at things differently. And then she'll go run, and she'll. And she's like a different person. It's awesome. It's unbelievable.

[A]

But that's an important way to support her.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Like you as a husband. It's like, listen, does this. You know, do I need to now take care of four kids?

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Like, yes. But she needs this. And if she has this time for her, she's now much more effective for not just herself, but the whole family.

[B]

100. Yeah.

[A]

So everybody wins here. Like, I'm such an advocate for. Yeah. Individual time. No matter where you're at in life, if you eliminate that.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

That's a recipe for disaster. I don't know what happens.

[B]

Dude. It's so funny because she runs. The group that they run in is big. And then there's some side groups that run four or five of them. And man, there's some amazing stories that have come out of it. And what I've seen is there, there is a level of mental toughness in that world that I wish I could. Like I've really benefited from. It is like seeing how they can commit and how they, it doesn't matter what happens. They're running and there's parts of it. I look, I'm like, man, there's some of that in our industry, but we could learn a lot of just the practice, the habit that I'm never going to give up, you know, as things get worse, I'm going to keep running harder. Like, man, that, that is an attribute that I think we have some of, but we could use a lot more of.

[A]

It's pretty, it's the endurance space is so cool because yeah, you can't. Interesting thing about mental toughness is you can't see it. Yeah, like everybody looks the same crowd of people. You can't tell me who's more mentally tough. Oh yeah, like maybe, you know, some people are more fit. So it's like, okay, he's maybe, but you don't really know. And then you go out there like the last race I did maybe a month ago, to my left was a guy in his 70s. And we're at the same start line, you know, waiting for the swim and you're a little anxious. So the guy on my left is in his 70s, old teacher who just, he's just by himself. He's told his wife not to come because it's going to be hot. And he's like, don't bother, like I'm just going to go do it, you know, do it on my own. And then to the right of me was a dad, you know, in maybe 40s, maybe, you know, early 50s, with a kid that he was taking to college, 18 year old kid for his first semester, first year of college, right after the race, the week after. And it's just like, wow, the spectrum here is extraordinary. And when I, when I showed up to these races, it was like I was first in my 20s. I'm like, all right, I'm going to be, it's going to be a lot of people in their 20s because that's when you're best. And then maybe Most, you know, 30s and then 40s and 50s, it's going to be kind of graded like that. You show up and it's like I might be the youngest person here and most everybody's probably like late 30s, if not in their 40s. A lot of people, like, I would say that's most everybody between 30 and 50, if not like 35 and 45. Because at that level, I feel like you just need a certain level kind of going back to what we were talking about earlier, like, of life experience as well.

[B]

Totally agree.

[A]

To just grind it out. Like you just don't have the experience oftentimes to even tolerate 12 hours, 24 hours, whatever it is, or a fast marathon, I mean, that's excruciating.

[B]

I mean, and you like, I look at her running group, there are no deadbeats.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

There is not one single person that isn't like extremely successful in leading their family. Extreme. I mean a lot of them are Vanderbilt doctors, heads of schools.

[A]

Go figure.

[B]

I mean, travel the world teaching. I mean it's, it is no coincidence that those people are highly successful. Just they understand. I, if I'm gonna commit, here's the goal, I'm gonna achieve it no matter what. And that just plays out across their whole life. It's awesome, man. I've like, I get so proud talking about Cameron running because it's, it's blown me away to see like, even at this stage of life, being busy with kids, how much she has like become a different person in the best way because of running. And it's running, but it's a lot of, it's the people she's doing it with, just unbelievable peers.

[A]

Did you say you went to Boston?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How was that?

[B]

I mean, it was awesome.

[A]

It's a pretty cool event.

[B]

It is awesome. I mean, they were all nerd now because they know all the professionals and depending on what hotel you stay at, you're right there with them. Like, oh, that's Sarah hall and that's Kipcho. I don't know, he wasn't there. But these are all the people.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

I'm like, I've never heard of these people. But then you see them in the race and you follow them and it's unbelievable. I mean the pace of what they run is incredible.

[A]

It's that, that event is so cool too because it's, it's a holiday. But just for Boston I did, which.

[B]

I didn't really know. Yeah, I didn't like Patriots. I'm like, oh, the whole city shut down.

[A]

Yes. They shut the whole place down.

[B]

I didn't understand like, oh, it's a, it's a basically a one way marathon where you bus out. They were saying like the bus ride was one of the hardest parts.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Of like, you're just on there for an hour going. And she said what was. You basically sit for an hour. And she's like, the way it worked that last year was they got off the bus and it was like, all right, there's your corral. You're gonna go in 15 seconds. All right, see you later.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. She's like, there was no. Because there was traffic, things got messed up. So she like. There was no stretching. There was no. They just had their nutrition on them and their fuel on them. And then it was off the bus. Throw off your sweatshirts and run.

[A]

No kidding.

[B]

So it was weird. But the whole weekend was so awesome.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I mean it was so. I mean, whole city. It's a holiday. Yes.

[A]

Yeah. Everywhere you go in Boston, it's all about the marathon. And a million people are there to watch the marathon.

[B]

When we were at. It was right at the half point, something springs. But it was even like they're like. I mean at every mile it's packed. I mean there's really not a part of the race that it's not.

[A]

No. I, When I, when I went, I drove myself thinking that was the smart way to go because my mom was with me, with me. So she could take the car back or she was going to drive to a few points.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then, and then see me. But the traffic, like they just close everything off around so I couldn't even get close to the start line. And I was kind of freaking out a little bit. I was like, am I even going to make it? But then I finally figure out how to hop on a bus and then. Which then takes me around so on and so forth. And then the corral I was in because you have to run really fast to qualify. But I hadn't trained because I was a little hurt. So I was like, I'm just going to run it. I'm not running it for time. So the whole beginning of the race, I'm just getting nearly run over the whole thing. It was not very fun because it's really narrow.

[B]

I promise. I'm usually super fast.

[A]

I got here on marriage, I swear. And then it opens up a little bit. But after like mile. You know, I usually listen to music in a marathon because they allow you headphones. Ironman doesn't. But that one, I just took my headphones out after like mile 5 cuz it's so loud.

[B]

So loud. I didn't make it to the finish line. But my wife's like, the finish line. She's like, you would have thought you were running out for The Super Bowl? Yeah. I mean, it was. And then I got there, I saw it. I was like, whoa, this is incredible.

[A]

Oh, it's amazing. But my favorite part was, like, you. You're kind of like coming up this hill, and you just. It's like midway, a little after midway, and you're. You're just hearing this scream. Screaming.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like, man, it. Thousands. It sounds like. Like thousands of women are just screaming. And you come up and you go right by Wellesley College, which is a women's college.

[B]

Wellesley Springs.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And they're.

[A]

And so you have the whole women's college standing there screaming.

[B]

You got your phone number?

[A]

Yeah. And me as like a Male in my 20s, I'm like, Man, this is awesome.

[B]

Like, made it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I. Pinnacle. Yeah.

[A]

I wish I could bottle this up and keep it, because I could use it.

[B]

Dude, I will talk about work in a minute, but I had the funniest half marathon. It was the St. Jude in Memphis, and we were running in memory of a friend's son. And I had felt like I didn't know anything about running. I ran with a buddy, and it was just kind of like, hey, let's just keep running further for two months before the race and then see if we can run before. Before the race. Run a half marathon. We did. And so. But we got to. It was in Memphis, and it was in December, so we trained really in kind of cold weather. And it ended up being like. It rained and the sun came out, and it was like this random, like, 84 degree day in December. And I mean, as the kids say now, dude, I was cooked.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, it mild. I mean, we had been running 14, 15 miles, thinking, oh, yeah, you run further. That's how you get ready for it. You run too far. Which I've learned is not how you.

[A]

Yeah, it's not, actually.

[B]

And so, I mean, it was like mile three or four. The two or three guys I trained with were kind of looking at each other like, this is not good. Something is way wrong. And of course, we didn't know about. I mean, we really didn't know about any kind of fuel or hydration. And so, I mean, at 10 or 11, we're all having problems. I mean, it's like, walk in, it's super hot. And there's a part where you run through the campus, St. Jude campus, and it's super emotional because they bring all the kids out, they're there cheering for you. They've got signs. I mean, it is powerful. Well, it's like in this paradoxical powerful moment, these kids who have terminal illness are like cheering for me to keep going and hear me and my buddies are like walking like heel toeing, like, you can do it. I'm like, I really can't run anymore. I have cramps so bad. This is not. It was the opposite of your Wellesley Spring.

[A]

Complete opposite. Yeah.

[B]

The end of my running career. I finished. I finished well.

[A]

Good. Yeah. And it teaches you. Like those are the ones you really remember when it just goes horribly wrong.

[B]

I mean we, yeah, I've done a few halves but like me and my buddies, we talk about that one more than any of them. That was hilarious.

[A]

When it goes well, you're like, ah, yeah. When it goes horribly wrong, that's much better.

[B]

It's hilarious.

[A]

So the last time you were here, we already alluded to. Yeah. You had a very sudden change in leadership.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is it. It's.

[B]

It was Ty.

[A]

Ty.

[B]

Ty Osmond.

[A]

So when, what year did he pass away?

[B]

So he passed away in July of 2020, so 12.

[A]

2020.

[B]

Like that's a lot going on.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that's a lot going on. There's a lot going on. And that was totally suddenly.

[B]

Yeah, it was an accident.

[A]

An accident. Yeah. It was not. Yeah.

[B]

He was 54. He drowned. And as an organization we had, we had at the time, we had. We're coming up on 30 years in business and I had been there four years and it was Ty and a partner named Greg Turner started. They were just good friends. One was in real estate. Ty actually started Subway franchise sandwich shops here. And as he was opening these, he was watching. He had family that did construction, but he was watching these contractors build out his sandwich shops. And he was like, why am I hiring these guys? These are knuckleheads. Like, we could definitely do a better job if I just had some good people. So he started building them out and then he met his partner through the real estate brokerage part of those restaurants. And so they, after a year or two doing those were like, what if we start a construction company? And it was very much a product of two good friends who were just very complementary partners. Different skill sets, different personalities, but worked really well together. And so they started in 91 and just started build outs. Like, let's see how many we can do and hire some superintendents and hire a project manager. And that really kind of progressed till they started doing some new construction. We always joke the first job they got was the backyard burger in Brentwood even. They were like, I mean, by the Time we were done with that. I'm pretty sure the whole thing was a footing we did not know we were doing, but they were like, let's hire some people who do. So they. They really grew, I think, to an unexpected level.

[A]

Well, and. Well, not just like. Like a volume, but just quality standpoint.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like premier general contractor and their whole thing.

[B]

Like, we're just always going to do the right thing, like, and we're going to put people over profits. And they had all these phrases that have lived in our business, in our company, not written down. It's just kind of our daily mantra, as you'd hear it said. You saw it by the way they talked and the way they treated people. And so they grew the business probably to about 70 or 80 million dollars before the recession took a step back, as most people did. But we're really. They actually, interestingly enough, stayed profitable through that. They made some really fast decisions on staff. Kind of like we were saying, hey, when. When the funds tighten, you start to really look at, hey, what is everybody doing? Sure. Hey, why do we have this subscription? Hey, why do we buy this from here? Why is this truck just sitting around? So they made some early decisions to say, let's get skinny really fast. And contractors that didn't do that are out of business. And so they just had the wisdom to do that. So lived through that, grew through the recession. And really, when I started in 2016, the other founder retired shortly after, which kind of surprised people. Two guys who had. That was all people knew. It was like, man, Solomon is the Ty and Greg show. The whole city knew him that way, the company knew him that way, and we'd been in business 25 years. So when Greg retired, it really surprised people. And so it put us on a track, really. In 2018, I started feeling a little bit of just like, man, we carried on the same way with Ty, but I was starting to do a little bit of business development and selling work. And, you know, you get in these interviews and everybody asked, what's your differentiator? You know, and ours was always like, man, we got the best people, and Ty Osmond's the best business owner. He's always gonna do the right thing. And if you have a question, just call him. He's not some guy in another city or at the top of a big organization. Like, it's like, I'll give you my address, you know, come talk to me.

[A]

Where did you come from? Were you at big GCs before?

[B]

Yeah, I was at a big national GC for eight or nine years, which.

[A]

Is a whole different.

[B]

Oh, boy. Yeah. I mean, it. We always joke, man, I had, like, a whole detox program. You can't even put it into words. Going from, like, number one builder in the. To top 20 in Nashville, maybe on a good year. And so there's night and day, almost different industries.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

You can make a case that you can't really compare them.

[A]

I don't think so.

[B]

They're very different. Very different. And so, yeah, it was a whole new sub world. It was new everything when I came over there. So, I mean, we started in 2018 or 19, feeling this pressure of, like, we're probably a little behind on, talking about what's next. Okay, let's get together. Let's put a team together and figure out, how do we do this from here? And at the time, I had brought a lot of people from my old company. I mean, it's the way friendships work. Someone goes somewhere, they pick up the phone. How is it? What's it like? They're a little bit unhappy. They're not feeling aligned with their company, and they make a move. So we hired a lot of people. And I felt this burden of, man, these people have come over here because I've told them it's a great place. We got to make sure we're here in five or 10 years, 20 years, 30 years. So we started sitting down, talking about, hey, this is way more than a company. It's way more than just an average general contractor. People who are here are here for a long time, and you go through life together. I mean, personal tragedies, all kinds of things. That the bond is just so tight. And so we started sitting down and saying, I mean, I bet we had the same mission, vision, values that every single person had in 1991. We probably bought it from some integrity, respect, totally quality relationships. I mean, teamwork, all those things. And it was kind of like, aren't these kind of table stakes? You know, like, if a guy came to doing a renovation at your house and he told you he'd be honest, you'd like, I have to ask some questions. Like, something's off.

[A]

No one has disrespectful as a value.

[B]

What kind of values are these? I mean, they're table stakes is what they are. It's a baseline of operations. So we sat down with a consultant, and we're like, man, we need a new mission, vision, values, everything. So we started doing this in 2019. Redid it to say, our mission is we build people, relationships, communities, and great buildings. And it was always intentional of. And it sounds a little counterintuitive, like your buildings are. Your building's actually not the most important thing to us. It's super important. We're a great builder. We do a lot of awesome projects. We're like really fortunate to be part of some of the coolest, most community benefiting projects in town. But like, someone's gonna come scrape your building one day or someone's gonna renovate it, you might move on to another campus and this turns into something else. So there was that idea of, man, people are always first, always first. And if we get the order wrong, the whole thing falls apart.

[A]

Well, and I think people like buildings. And this is. We were talking about when you walked in. They don't appreciate what space can do for people and behavior. And that the quote that comes to mind is, I think it's attributed to Churchill. We shape our dwellings and our dwellings shape us. And it's like that's 100 true. Your dwelling is shaping you, whether you know it or not. It is. It is determining a lot of who you are, a lot of your actions, a lot of your, especially if your business, a lot of your culture. If you are a company serving customers within that building, a lot of your customer interactions, like that's dictating so much of your business and so much of the interactions between your people. Yeah, like that's it.

[B]

That's it. That's everything.

[A]

That's everything. Yes. But people, it's just amazing to me that they don't really like, they're building a building because they need an office. No, like, why do you need an office?

[B]

Yeah, what do you do? What are you trying to do?

[A]

What are you trying to do? What's your culture? How do you want your people to interact on a daily basis? Like, what's. What's most important to you?

[B]

Yeah, it's interesting. So coming up with our new mission, vision, values, we had basically done it about 75% with Ty. And we were planning towards this 30th anniversary that we were gonna roll it out. We were gonna talk about some new leadership in the company, which was all that was gonna be like a big.

[A]

First because you got 20, 21.

[B]

2021. And so we were planning for that January 21st date. And then his accident was in 20. His wife inherits the business overnight after being a stay at home mom for the whole founding of the business. And she came in and basically said, I mean in not so many words, I don't know anything about Construction. And I really don't know anything about business, but I know about people and I know that this was what we were working towards.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And she. I mean, they think this is the.

[A]

Middle of COVID Yeah.

[B]

What is going to happen? Is there going to be construction? Like, what are we doing here? And she said, if you keep showing up, I'll keep showing up. And I mean, dude, in a second everyone was like, we're in. So, I mean, I think in five years we've had one employee leave, and it was going to leave to do something totally different. It wasn't going to leave to work at a competitor or anything. So that was huge for us because she was able to take. I have a baton in my office that's actually got hit Ty's signature on it. And it was the idea of, like, companies fail in the exchange zone. So it's a relay race analogy of like, you can run all the fastest segments, you can put four of the fastest runners in the world back to running, but if they don't have the exchange zone. Right. They lose a race. And so our whole thing was our exchange zone, we thought went from five to eight years to today. So it's like the way we don't mess this up is that we're crystal clear about our mission, vision and values. And so that's the first thing we did was, hey, we'll figure out structure, company ownership and structure later, leadership. We have to nail this down right now. So we always talk about, this is our benchmark. If we're ever lost or confused, we come back to this. This is our benchmark of why we're doing what we're doing and who we are. And it's funny because it. When you go 25, almost 30 years of not really knowing the mission, vision, values, other than he's a great guy and we've got a great lot of great people. Yeah, it feels a little awkward to talk about, but once you roll it out and it becomes part of your daily language and how you communicate what your company is to people, like, true grit is one of our values. Like, back to grit. You're like, when we're looking to hire people, we want to know, do you have grit? Because honestly, like, I can't afford for you to find it while you're here.

[A]

Do you go make them run a half marathon?

[B]

Yeah, it's like, go run a marathon. I'll let you interview. But yeah, it's like, we people aren't going to have that perfectly refined when you hire them. But nobody Nobody is. You can't start with nothing. Right? Like, and even those ratios of our values, it might change as you grow and evolve as a person. But like playful spirits. Another one. Like, man, if you don't, if you can't laugh at yourself, you better find it not only different place or you better find a different industry.

[A]

Yeah, we have stay scrappy. Yeah, you got. Got us some dog in you. You gotta get scrappy, man, and then lighten up. Yeah. If you. I cannot stand people that take themselves seriously.

[B]

It's horrible.

[A]

It is just. And it's like it's for their sake. Like, this makes life so much harder to just be serious.

[B]

The work is hard enough.

[A]

It's exhausting. Why do that?

[B]

Choose to make it way harder for no benefit. Like, for no reason. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Just a bitter asshole. It's like, what, dude? Just When.

[B]

When's the last time you laughed?

[A]

Like, tell a joke?

[B]

Like, so, you know, looking back on like since you and I last sat down, man, so much of. Because it's. People always ask, like how much was written down, like how much was figured out. And I always said Ty was like the difference in big companies and private companies. I mean he was a huge macro manager. I mean he wasn't, he wasn't asking you a lot about how's it going. Yeah, his whole thing was I hire adults so I don't have to worry about some of this. And so that was true even in our secession. I mean he had basically decided, he had told Nancy, our current CEO of you can keep it, you can sell it to someone else or you can sell it to the people there. I will have run my race at that point and it's yours. And he had put a board of people around her and close trusted friends. We had had the same partnerships and banking, accounting, all these long term relationships. And then there we had the mission, vision, values. And I believe someone has asked me, do you wish you would have written more down? I would have said in 2021 when we were trying to figure all this out after he was gone. I would have said yes in 2025 with a very gray beard and less hair. I think if he would have, I'm not sure we would have made it or we would have handicapped ourselves long term. I think he was of the mindset of if they can't take the basics and run with it, they probably won't be successful long term. So it's interesting. It's like, if I have to tell you all 50 steps to get there, are you the person, are you the team? And so Nancy always says. And I love that she says this, because I don't often think this way. This is even more maturity. She was like, God gave us enough time to figure this stuff out. We always had work. We always had relationships. We never got in a situation that we're like, oh, my gosh, we don't have any money. We always had those things you need to run a business. And so it gave us the Runway to just fight the battles we had in front of us through Covid, figuring out new leadership, making hard decisions with staff, you know, bringing new people on that stretched us in ways we hadn't done before. Dude, I look at now, like, the way I think about things, and I wouldn't be thinking about things the way I do now if you hadn't had to go through the storms and some of those hard decisions of. And I got to let this guy go who's been here a long time, because we got a values conflict. Yeah, you know, we've gotten comfortable, but we do not align. And this is our value. So I can't say it's our value if I let them get away with it.

[A]

Those are the hardest ones.

[B]

Oh, so hard.

[A]

But those are the ones that differentiate great businesses from another business totally. And those are the decisions that a lot of businesses just don't make. I've realized.

[B]

Well, what's been incredible for me to see, and I've learned it from her, is that I think she came in with very fresh eyes, and she honestly didn't have a lot of affiliation or attachment to a ton of our projects. She didn't know a ton of our people. All of her conversation had been, here's what Solomon Builders has done to change people's lives. Paired with, here's this new mission and vision and values. It's important to keep it going. And so for her, being somewhat of a blank slate, everything else is a distraction. She was like, the rest of this is not important. I know this is what's important. And so it has become like a laser focus for us of how we hire people, how we communicate with clients about who we are before we sign up with them, through the process, how we engage our subcontractors. And not a lot of it's new, but I feel like it would have been a really, really easy time to get distracted and not know who we really are and easily get off course. So, man, that has been huge for us in keeping this going. And what's cool now is I was just thinking through the Last few years, probably half of our office never met Ty. Like, one of our other founder, Greg, came into the office the other day, and people were like, who's that guy?

[A]

Really?

[B]

Well, he's actually one of the founders. Maybe we need to do a better job communicating some of this history. But people are just now. I mean, they're more bought in than ever because we've had to prove ourselves. We've had to show like, this is real, our culture's real. The impact we're having is real. And now people who are. They're feeling it and experiencing it first. It's almost like we're beginning to hand the baton off to other people who never knew him. Yeah, it's powerful. I mean, it's unbelievable.

[A]

It's an incredible story. And that's what I think culture is. I think a lot of people miss the point in a way. Or there's a lot of. In the construction industry, there's a lot of ties out there.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The business is them. Like, I think the business is a personification of the founder in a lot of ways, which works really well until the founder is not involved anymore for some reason. If it's sold or if they. You know, whatever happens to them, it's really hard to maintain that because they're like. They're entered. They're pouring their energy into the business, and the business is take. It's hard to explain. I've just seen it so many times now.

[B]

It's not a Winston Churchill quote, but, God, this might just cancel this episode.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When they talk about.

[A]

Well, it's definitely.

[B]

What is culture? What's the old quote? Like, how do you describe pornography? Like, I don't know. But, you know, when you see. That's not Churchill. I don't think it could have been, but yeah, it's like, how do you know what culture is like? Man, it is. It is hard to define. Yeah, but, man, you know it. When you have a good one and you know when you have a bad one, well, you got to live in it. It's.

[A]

It's. It's really hard to scale, too. Yes, it's really hard to scale.

[B]

That's probably now having our feet under us, having our team built out, that's probably our hardest question to answer is how do we want to scale? How far do we want to go? Because in the GC world, man, it changes fast.

[A]

Oh, boy.

[B]

Very fast.

[A]

In the past five years.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The changes in the GC world.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Crazy.

[B]

Crazy.

[A]

Which I want to. Some of the stuff I want to ask you about, but yeah. And probably the temptation, too, to just, like, run with all the opportunities right now. I mean, to just go run off and to go put a whole lot on your plate that maybe you shouldn't. Like, that is kind of like back.

[B]

To those lessons you learned. Probably the first thing that happened to me as a new leader owner was at the beginning of COVID We got committed to a project that for us was big. It was a $55 million job. And at the time, it was like, man, how much work is going to be out here? Here's a good job, local, which is almost all of our work. Let's just go get it. Well, we did that with the wrong team and we didn't buy it. Right. We didn't sign up the right subs. We just made a lot of honestly juvenile decisions where in hindsight I'm like, man, Ty would have probably told us to walk away from this even to the last second. Like, hey, don't be afraid. Like, bad revenue is not worth it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well. And so we sat with three years of bad revenue, and, man, it was just unbelievably hard decisions and consequence. Like, we're gonna lose more money than we thought. It just felt like you're burning your people out. This relationship is strained, but to our credit, like, nobody quit. Nothing ended up in court. It's an amazing project. We just basically took it on the chin. Just like, we made the decision, let's finish the project. Well. So we know we have a good referral. The relationship's intact and the product's awesome. Sure. Because it's not worth losing all that to what, lose less money? It was kind of a lost cause. So let's just handle the best way we can. And, man, have we learned a lot from that. I mean, we look at every project different, every subcontractor different that we consider working with.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it would have been easy to. If we hadn't had that, just continue making bad decisions.

[A]

It is interesting, though, that those decisions, it's like we forget a lot of times that a business is just a bunch of people and we're still dictated to by just, like, basic human emotion and human feelings and so that, like, fear based.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, you're. You're fearful of what might come, and you're. You're.

[B]

You.

[A]

So let's go get this. Or it's kind of the same thing. Like the. The projects, like the desire for just more and more and more is also driven by fear in a way. Like, that's what we used to do back in the day. Hey, if I come up on a tree with a lot of good fruit, I, I could. I can only eat one of these fruits, but I better take them all, because who knows where the next tree is? I better just grab it all. Oh, yeah, we have this tendency to just hoard, like, more, more, more, more, more. And sure, some of that's driven by, like, some of the bigger companies are public.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Or owned offshore, which. That's different for private equity. Different force. You need more, you need more, you need more. They're never happy with enough. But that, that does lead companies to just grow.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Like for the sake of growth. Which then. Like when the music stops, then what. Which is what I'm afraid of is happening right now in some ways.

[B]

It's a weird time, for sure.

[A]

It's a super.

[B]

It's a weird time.

[A]

Like, just what are your thoughts on what's going on in the marketplace? Because it's, it's. It is the. It's. I'm not that old. It's the strangest dynamic I've ever seen, though. On one side, you've got people on eggshells because of tariffs, new administration, economy, I don't know what. And then on the other side, you have like every other day I see, well, this is the biggest project ever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then like the, the next week or the next day, it's like, well, now, now this is the biggest project ever. Ever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then, and then, and then it just keeps it. And these are like. It's chip manufacturing. It's data centers are just off the rails right now. I don't understand how that's working. Medical. Yeah, the whole hospital system. Look at any hospital in the United States, it's under construction.

[B]

Well, they're all tied together.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, yeah, medical centers, data centers. I mean, they're all intermingled.

[A]

Sure. Yeah. So it's, it's. Which. It's just so odd. Like, you have again, on one side of the spectrum, it's like, yeah, I don't know what's going to happen. And then the other side's like, the biggest projects, the most spending ever. Ever, Ever, Ever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know if that's what you're seeing, but that's at least my take on that.

[B]

Our world is. So. I always tell people, man, I'm glad to be a contractor in Middle Tennessee. I mean, for the last even two or three years. You drive. I'm from Cincinnati, but I drive around Cincinnati. You go to other cities. And you're like, where are the tower cranes?

[A]

Yeah. Cincinnati is not exact, but, hey, Cincinnati, it's.

[B]

Oh, it's a great spot.

[A]

Don't sleep on Ohio. That's the next Florida.

[B]

No, it's a great spot. I'm not moving back, but I love growing up there. But it's. Man, we have been so fortunate here. I mean, with everybody coming to Middle Tennessee, it's. There's been no real fear of running out of work. I think what we're going to start feeling is the strain of all those things taking resource, labor, material.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The tariff piece is like, when people are expert on the impact of tariffs, I, like, immediately check out when they're.

[A]

An expert on anything. When they tell me this is how AI is going to play out, I'm like, totally. I know you're not just full of shit on this, but I don't have to listen to you about anything anymore.

[B]

Some of these things, we have the luxury of the size company. We are to sit back and watch some of it unfold before we have to be 10 years ahead. And so, like, AI is one piece where we've got some ideas. We've got some things already kind of cooking on our end that I'm really excited about. But I'm not gonna go out. I'm not gonna sit here and talk to you for an hour about, like, how I know AI is gonna change our company, much less our industry. Because, like, the guy that we're working with who's really sharp, is openly saying, like, man, I have. We're building this. I have no idea where it's going.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Or it's like, you talk about just the greater economy. It's like, okay. When most economists say, we really don't understand how the national debt's going to affect us.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay, well, Paul Jones, who is a graduate of the University of Tennessee, who doesn't know where his diploma is, he's not going to make a statement on the record about tariffs, the macro economy, or any of these things. So.

[A]

And you're working for really smart people like Dave Ramsey.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

You know, that's like.

[B]

And you hear him say, I don't know how I thought we were gonna fall apart 20 years ago. Okay. I mean, to me, it almost. I wish there was as much pressure or progress on, like, the social fabric of our country as opposed to, like, there's such a focus on all things fiscal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're like, man, is that really the right thing? But then even the narrative about some of the Social stuff, like, there's no progress. You know, it's like this. That's not a great world to live in either. So I'm like, I don't. My wife is. Laughs because she's like, you literally worry about nothing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I really don't worry. I tell her I was like, I don't get stressed or worried about a lot. Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and can't stop thinking about something I've been doing. And she says, that's stress. I'm like, no, not. Which I'm pretty sure it is, but yeah, man. There's some of these other things I worry about. They're like, I think that's good. There's other things that are going to be bigger issues before the tariffs. I mean, I've yet to see someone come with hard evidence in our work. I'm not saying, like, data centers are a whole different world, but for our projects, I mean, we're doing churches, schools. Back when office buildings were a thing, we used to do a lot of those. We're doing public work. But our scale is. I mean, we do anywhere from 100 to $150 million a year. So it's. Our projects are anywhere from 10 to 20 million to 70 or $80 million that we have not been affected to that degree or to a degree that I could communicate. I mean, there's been a lot of fear because, I mean, some of it's. These vendors, I think, have like, PTSD from COVID when stuff did blow up. And so the only action they know to take is, hey, when you hear a rumor about a tariff, send out a letter to all of the people you supply to and tell them that it could be going up 15%. Because I was talking to a developer last night at the kids soccer practice, and he was like, man, we're just. These tariffs are killing us. I was like, on what? He was. I don't know. But we're getting all these letters from vendors. I was like, well, what do they say? It's like, well, that the price might go up. Like, okay, has it in the last 12 months? Well, no, like, okay, well, let's. Yeah, don't throw the whole. Don't throw the baby out. I mean, like, wait, make good decisions. Don't take a letter from someone who's operating out of fear from COVID when lumber tripled. Like, it's probably not that. And like, for us, the percent of tariffs on the percent of material, on the percent of the total project, it's Usually not that much. So it's not like, okay, you hear something's going up 5 or 10%. Well, your project didn't go up 5, 10%. That was a very small component. That's even a smaller percentage of your project. So might there be an increase? Maybe. Is it worth sidelining it? I wouldn't, but I.

[A]

People talk about that increasing project, the cost of things. I think the bigger problem is like, honestly, a lot of these big companies and how much they've increased rates over the past five years kind of just because they can. Like the inflation on a construction project. I'm sure the buildings you're building right now, pricing right now compared to what you were pricing the exact same thing for in 2019.

[B]

Oh, it's horrible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No one would. It's funny being a small company, we don't have tons of which I think this is one of the things AI is going to fix. We've never had a lot of resource or horsepower in the office to like be extremely detailed about historical pricing to where we can say, oh, well, you know, in 20, 2012, a building was this. And I can project. We've been laughing recently because we're like, you know, we used to beat ourselves up all the time of like, I just, I wish that was something we were better at. And I was like, now it doesn't matter. Yeah, like what you're building cost seven years ago, no one cares. Throw it out. It's not worth anything. It's not worth the paper it's written on.

[A]

Not even close. And like that, that what, that's what I'm caught up in is like, everybody's saying about how tariffs are going to go kill the economy because it's going to make everything more expensive. And it's like, we're not going to talk about the past five years and how everything has increased like, oh, it's terrible, to an unbelievable amount. And it's, it's across construction, it's, it's homes, it's buildings, it's infrastructure. Like just the, like the infrastructure projects. I see getting let right now, like the billions of dollars going out for like four miles of road.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Wow. We get like, we don't even get that much for it. Yeah, I'm not that excited. And they publish it. This big number, this big economic activity, so on and so forth. And then I see what I get and I'm like, as a consumer, I'm pissed off. Like, wow, I get a, I get a third lane between mile marker this to mile marker this. And I don't really even care about that stretch of road.

[B]

It's hard for, like, what we do so much. It's funny, too. I'm in a peer group of other. They're GCs about our size around the country and hearing about people's market and what. They're basically what their book's built on. And when I tell people nonprofits and churches are a big part of our book, they're like, what do you mean? I was like, come to Nashville. There's literally a church on every corner, and if there's not, there's going to be one. But the nonprofit piece is interesting because it's like, you see these mega projects that get government money, and they're. They're building in necessary infrastructure.

[A]

That's what they say.

[B]

That's what they say. And then I see, like, we build it. We just built a counseling center, and it's down by Dave's office. It's a little further north, and it's called the Refuge center for Counseling. And this. The founder there, like, this has been her dream for 12 years. She bought the way they found the property. It's a hard piece of land to build on, but it's like, it's the property they were able to get. It's been a really cool story. We partnered with them five years ago to help them walk through the second part of it. And, I mean, she has fought tooth and nail to raise money. Finally got it. Finally got it built. But it was, like, mean. It's an amount of money that the government doesn't even know exists.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

You know, it's like, oh, few million bucks. What's that? But what's been kind of awesome for us to see is, and. And this is where, like, the. The type of work we get to play a part of is so cool because it's. It's a counseling center that turned. They refuse to turn anyone away. And so it's all sliding scale. So it's like, if you can afford $10 an hour for counseling, you pay $10. If you can afford 300, you pay 300. And so that's how their model is built, because they're like, man, so many people struggle with suicide, mental illness, addiction, whatever it is, and they can't get the help they need because they. They literally can't afford it because a good counselor costs $120 an hour.

[A]

And going through the medic. Insurance.

[B]

Going through insurance. Not an option. Yeah. And so, I mean, that's been done for a few years now, but we've been able to see, like firsthand and see firsthand the work that they do and like hear the stories about the lives that they change.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

And you're like, man, this is why it's worth it.

[A]

Well. And you're facilitating that by exactly giving them a place to do it.

[B]

Totally. And so we get to go by after it's done, we get to hear the stories. And I always feel, I tell people, they always ask what kind of projects we like to build. It's always been a hard question because when you're local, I mean, there's a portion of. It's like, we got to keep the lights on. We have to do enough work to pay everybody to grow well. But not much of our work is just bland work.

[A]

It seems like you guys are all over.

[B]

So we tell people our things, like, man, I want to build for people who are passionate and that their project has like, huge purpose.

[A]

Well, didn't you. You've done one YMCA or multiple?

[B]

So we've done all the YMCAs in Middle Tennessee. Really? For the last four, five years.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you did the one downtown.

[B]

So we didn't do the big one. We're doing a build up in it right now.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The big one was like, yeah, you need a big boy for that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, fair enough. Yeah.

[B]

That's when we play the little card.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But like Green Hills, Brentwood, we just got signed up to build one in Dixon. But the outside of town, the Green.

[A]

Hills in Brentwood, I mean there's.

[B]

Yeah, they're great, Huge, great projects. Great.

[A]

Really big.

[B]

Yeah. And so churches, counseling centers, I mean, a lot of like, medical missions. I was just meeting with a guy today from a group that, I mean, they help provide medical missions all around the world. And so you see what, to me, you see what work really matters. And you're like, to a degree, I think our work only matters because we're doing that. Right. It's like that's the higher purpose in our work is that we fortunately get to play a little role. A counseling center in Williamson county that's going to help people not make bad decisions and help not make huge mistakes and get the help that they need or build community to ymca where they build friendships every day for years with people. And so we see it firsthand as we're working with them. Like at the ymca, we go through this project with them and you get to see the old guys that are 75 or 80 years old that have been getting together for a workout and coffee for 30 years and be a part of that to know like, hey, they're still doing that better. And then there's a whole nother generation coming below.

[A]

And then there's like the kids area. Totally. Yeah.

[B]

So I mean, those projects, I mean, it's just coming from a big gc, that was one of the biggest shifts I got to. There was. You could feel a pressure at a big GC and it was easy to get lost in how many hundreds of millions of dollars is your project, how many square feet is it, how many stories is it to this like chess beating competition of who's the best.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you go to a little church renovation, that's all they can muster to do a little million dollar renovation. But arguably has more impact than any of that. And you get a much more intimate role and you get to serve them and build for them in a way that's not. This is where I need my attorney. That's more honest of like, man, I'm not gonna sell you anything you don't need. Like, I know what your goal is. I know what you have. I'm gonna get you there and I'm gonna find a way to do it. And it's not gonna be by selling you products you don't need or putting a certain staff that you don't actually need on the job. I have the freedom as a private organization to get there the way you need to get there without keeping shareholders happy. You're delivering earnings that have to be delivered to someone who lives in another country. That's probably been the biggest, I don't know, blessing to me is to be involved in these projects that we always say. And this was something I've heard Ty say and other people say of you want your impact to be bigger than your imprint. You don't want to just come here and take up space. God's plan for us is to not just consume resource and be done. I mean it. There are good works planned for us and we want to be part of it. And to me that's been the biggest blessing of being at Solomon is to be called in that, like in the.

[A]

Most immediate way, but that and that. And that's what building is about.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

And that's what it used to be. And. And then I think like even the big projects used to be done by more local contractors. Like I remember in Phoenix there's a guy, Channing, you know, Steve Channing, they did the ballpark back in the day.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But now a stadium. No, there's going to be Maybe three names.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

We'll build it big. National, international players, often foreign owned, right? Doing the work. I beat up on GCS all the time. And a lot of it's completely. I'm painting with a broad brush. I'm putting them all into the same category. Like a lot of it's completely undeserved because there's the more local GCs. Like, they build the community, they build like and which builds the economy. That's the whole United States economy is built upon mostly like local GCS building. Good stuff. But then you have, you know, the mega players and there's just more and more consolidation and they're even like every year they're just more mega and more mega and more mega and more mega and there's just no soul at all. And they're so far removed from the actual work, right. That it gives them like they lose all sense of, like you said, what they're actually achieving or what they're actually doing. And then there's this weird, like, that's why I've always gravitated to civil in a lot of ways because they self perform the work, right? And when you're self performing the work or when you're close to the work, like you, you, you can't really be all that arrogant because it beats you down. Like, like you, you. To do the work, you have to have a degree of humility. Like it's, that's like one of those basic requirements, like to just do the project and actually make it work, you have to have a degree of humility. But you start to get too far from that. Now we're gonna talk about like robot dogs building everything. It's like, hey guys, what about the concrete crew out there, like suffering at 2am building your projects? Like, are we not gonna talk about them? But they're a sub, so we don't have to, we don't have to worry about them.

[B]

Man, we're so fortunate to be in a place where we've had like long term relationships with subs for over 30 years. And if you go through enough life with people, even if they're not your employee, they're partners in the work. You get into situations to where it's not even hanging your hat. It's in earnest. Coming to someone for help. I mean, we've had a sub call us to say, hey, we've slowed down a lot, much more than expected because we didn't get these projects. Can you please help us get some work right now? Or we've had sub call and say, we've got a few great employees, could you have a spot for them? Because I'd rather have them go for you who's not a direct competitor and vice versa. I mean, we've had a sub. There was a sub where we self perform concrete a lot, not all the time. Mostly flat work and footings with our guys. And we've had a spot where a sub had priced it the whole way through. And we always say we're not going to price it to subs. If we're going to self perform it, I'm not going to waste their time. And we'd done that on a project where sub had priced it multiple rounds. Probably spent six or eight months, spent a lot of resource on it. We had something else fall through. We got really slow, had to call them and say, hey, I'm sorry, the plans that we had made did not work out. I need a place to put 10 or 15 of my people right now. Is it okay if I pull this project from you that you were. Can you flex for me? You know what I mean? It's like, can you accommodate me? Because I've accommodated. Like that's how it works. That's the relationship side of it. That when you become so big, there are so many things that you have to do and there's so many products you have to sell to keep someone happy that you'll never meet in your life. Yeah, it calls you out of that stuff. It calls you out of those relationships. It calls you out of those things that you really need to do to have an impact.

[A]

And they'll say relationships are everything. But they just. It's all about the contract.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

The contract is everything. That's right, actually. And then you can just see it and how. I mean, just go look at a contract nowadays with. With one of these big projects. Just look at it.

[B]

I remember when I check it out when I quit or I moved on from my. And it was a. It was. I learned so much from my first. I mean that's one thing. They will teach you how to do it. And I will say they have attributes where it's like, yeah, there's never a no, you can always figure something out. You learn some of those perspectives that are true when you have kind of endless resource. Yeah.

[A]

I worked for a company like that.

[B]

And I remember pretty, pretty vividly we were beating a guy and I grew up my dad's landscapers, very small company. It's like him and four other guys. And it's Been like that forever. And I was talking to me yesterday and he's like 72, he's like, yeah, I'm gonna keep doing a few more years. I'm just enjoying it. I like these guys. Like, why would I not? So that was my growing up. Then I went from, to mega company. And I remember towards the end of that stint, we were beating up a guy about installing some doors. And it was like a thirty thousand dollar contract. And I was like, man, sign your contract. I gotta have you out here. I'm like beating the, beating the drum, you know, making stuff happen. He walks in with what looked like several bibles and he slides it across the table. I mean, it was like 600 pages with all the attachments. And he goes, would you sign this for $30,000? I mean, at the time I was like, that's our contract. No, I would not actually. And I don't think you should either. I mean, you start some of those things become normal. You're like, wait, what? That's not. Should be normal.

[A]

And what are we doing?

[B]

For us, it's like we have a master agreement with people that's like eight pages. That's kind of like this stuff, which is to have to be legal. And then we do basically work orders. Hey, here's, here's the drawings and specs for this job. Here's your number. It was tied to this bid. Let's go. So it's just so much more relational based.

[A]

But like, but, but it's also. An eight page master services agreement is also more effective.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Because you know what's in it and you know what you're signing. That's, that's the crazy thing about these big obscure contracts is no one knows them. No one knows them except the lawyers.

[B]

So if the only ones winning too.

[A]

They have the key and they're the only ones that win. And everybody plays their game and it's like, why do we all play their game? Like this is. I remember like early on in business. So my dad's a lawyer. So it wasn't like the most dynamic conversation growing up being raised by a tax lawyer because I. Riveting. Yeah. Never paid taxes, you know, as an 8 year old.

[B]

Still don't. That's a joke. That's a joke.

[A]

Well, no, our business is a nonprofit.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, it's. But it's the other kind of nonprofit.

[B]

So.

[A]

Yeah, he. At least I got like, I kind of got the tricks, like the bag of tricks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That I learned in business. And I remember I was going back and forth with, with this contractor on a contract. And I had a one page contract. It was one page, and I was going to take some photos. Like, this wasn't. This wasn't in a, you know, for like three grand or whatever. This is not life. Life or death kind of stuff.

[B]

Like, he could have this money on him. Yeah. Yes.

[A]

Yeah. But I send him the contract and because he's a contractor that's been burned a bunch, it goes right to the attorney and anything. Right to the attorney. And it comes back the attorney. And he's just redlined the whole thing and added, you know, pages. Just, just the whole thing's a disaster. And I, I kind of freak out. I'm like, oh, like, I'm gonna have to. Now I have to sign this. Like, this is. This is. This doesn't work. And I go back to my dad. I'm like, well, look at all these changes. Like, what do I do about all these changes? Do I just sign it? And he's like, no, just tell him you're not gonna change anything.

[B]

That's right. Yeah.

[A]

Like, I can do that. I can just say no. And he's like, yes, you can just say no. And I tell the attorney, no, we're not gonna do that. You know, And I probably explain why and this and that, you know, long drawn out. And he just comes back, okay.

[B]

Oh, so much.

[A]

And I'm like, I cannot believe that. Like this whole thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Was it.

[B]

Someone paid him a thousand bucks to do that and some.

[A]

And he got paid regardless. And I just could not believe, like, that, that. I know it's not that simple, but like, that.

[B]

It's not far off.

[A]

It's not that far off. That showed me the whole game. And it's like, oh, my gosh. So. But. And that's where it's. That's the shame really, to go like bigger pictures. Like, they're dictating a lot of the industry right now. Like, it's like people like that that are messing with the fabric of our country. Like, the fabric of our country is our info structure.

[B]

It's like everything's so litigious. Like, if you just. If you get signed up with the wrong client or the wrong subs and you're not aligned culturally. I mean, it can get off the tracks fast.

[A]

Well, but I know a lot of contractors that haven't been that, that involved in litigation. Like, they'll litigate when they have to.

[B]

I mean, our thing is, like, we've never done it. We never will.

[A]

You know, there's going to be issues here or there. It doesn't not going after people doesn't prevent you from people not coming after you. But. And then I know contractors, and they are in litigation. That's just their job.

[B]

When we. It's like, oh, my wife's always like, how do you not stress out more? Because, I mean, we were allowed. When you get certified mail, you're like, oh, I know what this is. And you'll get. I mean, we had one the other day, and it was like a car wreck that happened two miles from the job, and they wanted to sue the client. I mean, they just named everybody.

[A]

Sure, why not?

[B]

It ended up being some public project that was affecting signalization, but they just thought, oh, there's a construction project down the road. Let's just, you know, for 500 bucks, let's just lob something over there for a million dollars.

[A]

And they use, like, the big scary words.

[B]

Exactly. But we. I mean, but it's in. It's just indicative of, like, man, this is kind of where people have gotten.

[A]

Yeah, it's such a bummer.

[B]

Such a bummer.

[A]

But it is exciting to see, like, how you all are going about it, because I'm. I believe in it so much.

[B]

It's been fun.

[A]

It should be.

[B]

I was thinking about just even, like, driving over here a little bit. I was like, man, I think what makes me most excited is hiring people. And it's like, I love getting projects. Like, I think one thing people like about our industry is there's still this, like, raw competition of just you get in the trenches with your people, you battle out for projects. You, like, think how. What's our approach? Who's our team? What's our advantage? How do we really engage this client? Well, and there's camaraderie in that. And so the highs are high and the lows are low. I mean, we lose jobs, and you're, like, devastated, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then the sun comes up and you go back to work, and then you get a job you didn't expect to get, and it turns out to be great. And I think that is probably one of the most enjoyable parts of our business is the pursuit and delivery of projects. Just the emotion that comes with it, the challenge that comes with it. But I. To me in my position now is like, hiring is incredible. Like, it's so tedious. I don't use. I never use recruiters. And so I will only talk to people I know, like, and trust to find people.

[A]

And you're not replacing everybody with robot Dogs yet.

[B]

We're not doing robot dogs. Promise.

[A]

I'm telling you, it's promise. It's the next big thing thing.

[B]

And. But the freedom of a small business. Like, I was thinking about the two people. I've gotten really excited about the last little bit. And one was. One's a high school kid.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

And he came to me through a friend who's in commercial real estate and was just like, man, I don't know if I want to go to college. Not that I don't want to. I don't know if I need to. Here's the. And his parents were successful. Like, they easily could have stroked a check, but they were like, you need to work for it and to a degree will support you, but you have to do some on your own. So he thought, man, I'm interested in construction. I want to take a gap year between high school and college and see if this is really what I like.

[A]

That's very wise.

[B]

And he said, can I work for you for free? I was like, you can work for me, dude. But like, let's start negotiating.

[A]

Legally, I have to pay.

[B]

Legally I have to pay you. So I was like, man, come as an intern. Like, just come. We'll put you in the field for a little bit. I mean, he had no construction experience. It's like, man, go out in the field for five or six months, like, swing a hammer, pull concrete. Like, let's see what it's really like. And then if you want, let's come in the office and see what that next step looks like. Well, he started doing that and then, I mean, he's been with us three years now, and he's now he's like an assistant project manager. So we have a group that just does interiors. So like a build out like this, if it came in the door, I would go walk the job with him. Or someone walk the job with him. He would do all the bidding, he'd deliver the project, he'd close it out. I mean, we always joke because he's not even 20.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So like, well, if you go to a happy hour, can't drink with anyone. If we go. You don't realize there's a lot that a 19 year old really can't do socially. But I mean, when you go back to fabric and character and grit and all these like, the dude has it. And I said, man, he. And he's gonna be with us four years in a. Probably another. So another year too. He would be like, technically finishing college. And to his credit, man, he's like, stayed engaged with his buddies. He's visiting him at campus. But, man, there's a real trade off. Like, he's sacrificing this, whatever the social experiment of college is. But I encourage him all the time. I'm like, man, when you're 21, you're going to be making good money down the road on a career with a company you know, like, and trust that you've built an incredible reputation with here. You've proven yourself. You'll have no debt. I was like, dude, you're probably going to be on your way to buying a house.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was like, there's an argument to be made that you're 10 years ahead of your friends, without a doubt. I mean, but it's been cool to have the, like, because part of that process was he came to me and said his original plan was, I'll do this for a little bit and then I'm gonna go to college to make sure I like it. Well, as a small business, I don't really care what your degree is, to be honest. I don't care if you have a degree. And he came to me and said, hey, would working here long term, Would getting a degree be a prerequisite? And I was like, man, that is a personal decision. You are of the quality that if you want to do that, I will hire you in a second when you come back, if that's what you want to go do or if you want to work while you're there, I'll figure anything out with you. You're such a great person. But, dude, he thought about it. He talked to people he trusted. He said, man, I'm just going to get an online degree and work full time, if that's all right with you. Of course. We're, like, loving it because, like, man, I don't want you to leave. You proven yourself and become this awesome employee. He just, dude, like, he didn't stumble anywhere, but, like, he just came out of high school.

[A]

It's cool.

[B]

And it's. To have the freedom to give a guy like that a chance.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Like, no, you don't need a degree. Come on, dude. Yeah, jump in the party with dude. He's awesome.

[A]

Well, that. And that's the fun of it, is watching somebody grow totally and change and develop. Like, watching people develop is so much.

[B]

Fun, dude, it's the best part of the job. I mean, I. It's almost like the biggest blessing for me is to get to, like, be a bystander, to see this happen. I mean, we. We Took a trip. We had done one at our 25th anniversary, and we wanted to do one to some degree after that. But Covid really became a challenge because we took a trip in 2017 to Honduras. We took all of our salary, employees, which was a big deal to say, hey, we're going to leave. The whole company's going to leave the country for a week.

[A]

It's a big deal.

[B]

And we're going to go build houses in Honduras, do medical missions, do all kinds of stuff. I mean, I remember the first time. I mean, it was profoundly impactful. I mean, perspective that I'd never had in my life. I mean, you know this from traveling. You go see the rest of the world, you learn a lot.

[A]

Boy, do you.

[B]

And to see, like, about, as. I mean, it's about the lowest level of poverty you can really see down in Honduras. But the camaraderie built, the perspective gained was, like, incredible for me. Well, we did that again this past year. We did it in. Was that February, took the same trip, but half the people weren't on the first trip. So we had this neat perspective of people who'd done it before, new employees, and this young guy was one of them. And I was like, man, look at. Look at what's happening. Like, you want to talk about a life lesson? Like, look at this guy at 19 years old, traveling to a third world country to do medical missions with people that he's not just working with. I mean, he's sitting in staff meetings where people are sharing about a terminal illness or losing a loved one or. Because that's really what our Monday staff meetings are. Are those and prayer time. And so for him to see that. I mean, you talk about. That's life. I mean, I hate to tell the college kids that, but, like, life's not just having fun and going to class 18 hours a week.

[A]

No. And it's.

[B]

That's about as far as life as you can get, actually.

[A]

Like, I. I live pretty close to town in a neighborhood that's, like. Most of the neighborhoods around here actually are not all that reflective of, like, real life.

[B]

No.

[A]

And. And you. Again, I'm just always. If you're listening to the conversations you're driving around, you're like, these people think this is life totally. And this is so far from the real world. So far. And to have, like, to be that disconnected from reality is, like, that's a scary place to be. I can't be because I travel too much.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But, yeah, like. Like what we do, it's cool for Me to give other people that opportunity to see the world.

[B]

Oh, absolutely.

[A]

And see our country. Because you, I mean, you're an idiot if you're not learning.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Endlessly while you're out and about. It's just. And a place like a Honduras is quite interesting too, because you can go. It goes back to discomfort. You can go to a place and you can be very comfortable.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You can go to Costa Rica and so Costa Rica. I've been to a bunch of. You can go to Costa Rica. You can go to a very comfortable resort.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you can never see Costa Rica. Oh, I've been to Costa Rica. Have you been to Costa Rica? Have you actually been around San Jose?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, you haven't. You flew in and then you went right to the resort. You hung out at the resort. This is great. Everybody's catering to me. Tasty food. That's just like the shit I have at home. Just a little bit more colorful. Totally beach fun. And that's great. If you want that. You're looking for a vacation, great. But you didn't see Costa Rica. I promise you that. Like, I've been to some just wacky ass markets in San Jose. And afterwards it was like, when I was pretty young, it's like, I probably shouldn't have been there. Like, that was actually kind of like irresponsible.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

But that's where you're learning. That's where you're learning. That's, that's, that's the value you're really seeing. Like, oh. Or I was in Indonesia and in July, we saw a lot of, a lot of the country. It was really spectacular. But you're in. You go to Jakarta and you know Jakarta is a city. You're like, okay, that's fine. But then I, because I'm. I am who I am. I looked up aquarium stores in town. I'm going to an aquarium store, dude. So I found some aquarium stores that were like kind of walking distance. I spent the morning at a coffee shop that was really nice. Like a coffee shop here, you know, I needed to get some work done. It was nice. I had a coffee. But it was like any other coffee shop I'd ever been to. It's an experience that'll. It'll go away one day. There was nothing to it. But then I walk from the coffee shop to the aquarium store and I'm just walking through the city and it's just a random day in the city, a random Saturday, and I'm just like seeing Life, like, I'm going through these markets and just these women just, like, lay the fruit out on the ground and then sit there on, like, a little towel or a little cushion and just wait for someone to buy their fruit. And I'm just like, this is their world. Like, this is.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

This is their reality. They come here and they sell their fruit to pay for their family. Like. And I'm going here to go to look at an aquarium store for fun, because I have a fucking corner next to my dad.

[B]

Priorities, obviously.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's, like, you know, worth as much as someone might make there in a year. It's like. But it's. It's just such a. But. But that, like, that's so. There's so much more texture to that. Oh, yeah, it's. It stands out so much more. And that's what you carry. That's what you carry after that experience. And that's what you just can't. Once you see it, you can't see it.

[B]

You can. I mean, one of the things when we did a lot while we were there, but probably the things that stand out the most are. I mean, one day you go to. I mean, it's there what we would call the dump or the landfill. It's their equivalent, but there's no. There's no regulation around it at all. So it ends up being a lot.

[A]

Just more giant pile of trash.

[B]

It's a giant pile of trash, but, like, it's so much more raw than that because, I mean, they have animals dying. There's people living there. And the people. So the industry is that people pick through it to find anything that might be valuable. Plastic, a little bit of metal, and they collect it. And I can't remember the number. It was like, families would do it, and they lived under tarps there, and they would maybe make. The family would make like, 12 or $15 a day. But the majority of that money paid off the gang that ran the dump. And we would go and we had an escort, basically, who knew what we were doing and knew where we were going. And we're handing out little bags of water and Ziploc bags of bologna sandwiches, basically. And the people are coming up to you, like, in such desperation, and they're like. And the guide was like, hey, they only know that meal, and they don't know a single meal past it. So the amount, you understand the desperation. But for us to take our people to do that and see it firsthand, to stand. I mean, it sounds raw, but like to stand in it, to smell it, to see it, to experience it, man, it is just this perspective you cannot deny and you cannot get rid of it. And so when you come back here, it. Naturally, you're in Brentwood. You're in Brentwood or what a Germantown. It. It doesn't prevent you, but it, it helps keep you grounded with the right perspective of like, man, are these problems really problems? Sure. You know, or to a degree, like our blessings, like, do we really appreciate the good things in our lives and the blessings in our lives?

[A]

No.

[B]

And so I kind of come back to. I'm using that one guy as an example, but it's like you're not. I don't really care. You're not learning that in college.

[A]

No.

[B]

And honestly, it's like that will take you a lot further in life.

[A]

So does the company pay for that trip?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So we tell. We told our employees, you just have to show up.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How often does it happen?

[B]

So we've done it twice over the course of seven years. But Covid was it really eliminated three or four of those years. And we're in the process now of determining how realistic is it to do that every other year. Is that in every four years thing. But I mean, we take guys that we've taken. People never left the country.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I mean, it's just. It's those types of things that you're like, this is worth. This is why we do it. This is worth it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's the team building, it's the emotional connection. It's the. I mean, some of it's the laughs. I mean, you know, like when you're traveling in a third world, you're gonna have to laugh at what goes wrong.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Like when that 45 minute bus ride turns into eight hours, we're gonna get to know each other. And so you. You do those things and it's just such a. It's a level of bonding that you just can't get in. An eight hour workday.

[A]

Yeah. Or topgolf.

[B]

Totally. To say the least. Like, maybe the biggest understatement of my life, but it's like when you come back with that, it's so rewarding. And we do service projects through the year, which are also great, but man, there's nothing like that. That's pretty. And to be able to share it with people who otherwise wouldn't have the chance to do it, it's just awesome.

[A]

That's amazing. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, like, that's been awesome. And then I was like, the other side of the spectrum is I hired a guy who'd been another where I used to work. We've been friends for a long time, and he came over and started working for us six months ago now. And he had been there 27 years. And I mean, I thought my detox was a lot coming from a big GC after nine years. I mean, it's been fun to sit firsthand and watch him because I knew he was cultural, I mean, technically and culturally dynamite. I mean, perfect fit, and we needed him. The timing worked out well. But to watch. It's been fun to watch him process what he's stepped in, what he's not, not. Not what he's walked away from in a bad way. He honestly has a great appreciation of, like, the technical training and experience he has makes him unbelievable with us. And so he's like, man, I wouldn't sacrifice that. Like, I'm not. I don't wish this would have happened. Like, it happened at the perfect time for both of us. But to watch him experience all this stuff firsthand of, like, our engagement with nonprofits, what we're allowed to do as a private company, and in a lot of different ways, just with how we allocate our resources and what we do with, like, we give as a company. And so to kind of show him how we do that and the way it allows us to engage non profits and not engage them in, like, look what we have to offer you. I mean, most of the time, when. All the time when I sit with these non profit leaders and you hear about the work that they do versus the work we do, it is very right sizing as far as your pride goes. Like, man, the only reason what we do is impressive is because it's affiliated with them. I mean, that's. We like what we do. Our people are good at it. It's what they're passionate about. But as far as, like, that idea of having an impact, it's like, what we're doing isn't the impact. I think that's where big GCs get caught up of, like, we are the impact. Like, no, it's. Yeah, it's our affiliation to what that building is gonna accomplish. That's our impact.

[A]

Yeah. And there's. Yeah. And that. I feel like that's been lost a little bit in like, like the amount of, like, awards banquets and this and that I see on LinkedIn. It just wants to. I just want to jump out the window.

[B]

The ones you pay for.

[A]

You said it on me.

[B]

Sorry. Yeah. Please forgive me.

[A]

Try to sell me quite often. Or just like awards on revenue.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and this or that. It's just, it's so. So it was interesting. I talked with somebody. They're at a contractor. They had a, a meeting, you know, at some point. And they spend all this money to bring all these people there. You know, you have a company meeting.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know how expensive it is. And it's not just the expense of getting people there. But all your jobs are shut down.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

You know, all that's a lot of salary sitting in one place and company vehicles and whatever it is. So there's all these people at the company and I've seen this happen a lot. This isn't just this one off. They have this company meeting and then it's all kind of about how good they are.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

And it's not that compelling.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the leaders don't know how to speak. And. And it's just like, what's the point? Yeah. Like what? And it upsets me because it's such a missed opportunity. Like it's, it's. You're gonna invest that much and create this opportunity that you have maybe once a year. Maybe.

[B]

Maybe.

[A]

And you're gonna do it like that.

[B]

We go back and forth a lot on this because there's probably things that don't get communicated that we should communicate. Like I'm sure if you pulled all our employees they'd be like, I wish I knew a little bit more about this or that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But we get together really like full staff meetings. Like meetings. We get together probably three or four times a year. Uh huh. That's pretty good. And so two of them are typically like service projects where we're actually gonna go do something but we've got everyone together and so that defaults. There's two other ones that are supposed to be like real staff, what I call real staff meetings where we talk about back. My partner at work always talks about. He makes fun of me because we both worked together at our last company and he's like, let me guess, you're gonna get up there and talk about how backlog is strong and synergy is good.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So we've. Man, we've defaulted to. And this was funny thinking back to that guy we just hired who'd been there for 27 years. His first staff meeting. We go to the gun club in April and just shoot clays and then just eat lunch. And so he was like all prepped up for a meeting and at the end of lunch he was like, all right, so now what? I was like, well, it's Friday. We go home. He's like, but it's only one. I was like, yeah, I know, but, like, we already shot. And then we ate lunch, and then we gave out the new swag. What else do you want? He's like, well, I thought there'd be a meeting. I was like, no, dude. Like, we're literally just getting together to have fun and goof off. Like, that's the point of this. And so there's a downside of that. It's like. But if the downside is that they didn't hear my spiel on backlog. You know what I mean? It's like, okay, they're probably fine. So. I don't know. There's probably things that we're missing out on, but it's been fun. Like, that's a good differentiator. We're like, let's just be different. Not every meeting has to be a ton of information. Like, what if we just got together because we liked it? Hanging out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And doing something fun. Like, it works hard. It's.

[A]

It's interesting. We're a remote group. So it takes money to bring everybody together. A lot of money. And we just haven't had the money for. For years now. But what's cool is we have the summit every year.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And now this year, we're at a size and a position in business. We can bring everybody. And so I think it's now our team meeting. That's awesome as well.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is awesome. And it's not like, there's not a lot of stuff planned for everybody. It's just like, come be a part of this event together. And that's all I feel like we need to do. Yeah. It's not that complicated.

[B]

Well, some of it's. I mean, some of it's me just feeling. I don't know, feeling more confident as a leader or comfortable as a leader to where. It's like, if you feel like you need to say a lot, we might be miscommunicating in other places. Yeah. You know what I mean? If I feel all this pressure, like, I gotta cover a thousand things, you know, while we're trying to have fun, something else is off. So let's find other ways to communicate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The important things. And then not mesh these up if we don't need to.

[A]

Sure. Interesting.

[B]

Well, are we gonna go Joe Rogan style? You wanna go, like, two more hours?

[A]

No, there's. There was some. Man. I saw one the Other day, maybe. Lex Freedman. It was like, 10 hours.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

I don't have that level of focus, man.

[B]

I just know it's.

[A]

It's hard. It's. It's a lot harder than just talking. Have a conversation that long.

[B]

Well, then you get to the end, you're like, well, I hope we covered some good stuff. You're like, yeah, I think we have.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. But that's in the. In the podcast. That's my job is to make sure that we go.

[B]

Yeah, 10 hours. No, thanks.

[A]

It was 10. 10 hours. Yeah.

[B]

It's funny, you talk about those fake awards that you get. Like, well, some of them are just mailed out. And it's just a marketing, you know, like, we got one. 22 is a big year for us. And it's when we had a really tough job. We did have a lot of great stuff going on. We do all the work at the zoo. We do all the zoo.

[A]

Yeah, you do some cool stuff.

[B]

We were doing the work for Dave at the time, but then we had some really hard, kind of like, Covid bought projects that were just really hard to deliver. And it's funny, when you get this plaque in the. In the mail, it's like, hey, congrats. You are the number. I think at the time, it was like, you're the number one fastest growing company.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because we went from like, 100 to $150 million in a year. And it's. We didn't do anything with it. We just, like, basically, I don't know where it is. I'm sure it's thrown away. And someone just saw the business journal and like, oh, man, look, they went from here to here. They're number one. It was our least fun year of work ever. Ever. That is such an ironic award. It was, like, good job for doing too much work and stressing your people out. And now, granted, we were in the middle of transition, but that's what that award felt like. So. So we. We should. I'm like, we should have kept it because, like, we actually come back to that year a lot to say, like, how do we need to build the team? Who do we need to hire? What do we need to change so we don't do that again?

[A]

So you're not. You're not renovating your office to make a bigger awards room.

[B]

No. No words.

[A]

Lobby. It has to be right when people walk in so they know how good you are.

[B]

Yeah. The joke in our office is like, our office feels very, like, residential. I mean, you walk In. It's, like, very warm. It feels kind of like most people like it because, like, man, it doesn't feel like an office.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we were joking up. We had a guy who. He took a RV trip out west for three weeks, and everybody was dogging him about how long he was going. And, like, do you not even care about us? Like, how could you just leave us this long? And he brought us back. Are you familiar with the Jackalope?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Very. I'm from Arizona.

[B]

Oh, yeah? Yeah. You've probably seen a lot of jackalopes.

[A]

Any.

[B]

So he brought back a jackalope, and it's hanging in the front of our. It's like, literally our only trophy to speak of in our office would be the jackalope. That's pretty cool. In the lobby.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was, like, hanging. So it's like massive stone wall. When you walk in, there's like, a little tiny jackalope.

[A]

I kind of want to. Maybe I'll get a jackal up for the office.

[B]

It's pretty good. It's pretty good.

[A]

I like stuff like that. Yeah. I. You know, the one that comes to mind is like, the Ink 5000 or whatever it is. And, you know, years ago, I was just, like. I was seeing people, you know, talking about how fast and I would look, and I was like, we're faster going than that. Like, why aren't we in the 5,000? Like, damn it. Like, what? Why didn't we make the list?

[B]

Right?

[A]

And then I realized, you have to apply for it. And I was like, oh. Oh, this whole thing is a racket.

[B]

Pay to play, baby.

[A]

Yeah. And now I know people are being genuine about it. Like, fine, be proud of what you're doing. But I. Every time someone's talking about how fast growing they are on, like, that list, I'm like, well, I mean, you can't.

[B]

Well, it's. I mean, it's not.

[A]

I mean, beyond it.

[B]

It's not to just dog fast growing companies. I mean, if a company's growing and they're doing great work and their people are happy.

[A]

Yeah. Good for them.

[B]

I mean, look at Ramsay. I mean, they've grown like crazy. Their culture's strong. Their people are. They're either happy or not happy. I mean, he's clear about that. You're in or you're out.

[A]

Very clear.

[B]

And so that's not bad at all. But you're like, man, I think a lot of people on these lists, as you're fast growing and your people are miserable.

[A]

Well, the more relatable ones, the enr. Because just revenue.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

More money. Well, more money.

[B]

I guess all industries are like that. It's like the revenue rankings, like one that's hard for us as a GC that does self perform. It's the number. It's like when people talk about your EMR, like, we get stacked up against these GCs that have. They're just construction managers. They have no employees in the field whatsoever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're like, well, you know, look how low our EMR is. You're like, when was someone gonna get hurt?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Copy machine liking from the truck to the office.

[B]

Yeah, I'm not. And ours might, like, we'll have a year where, like, it might be a little higher. And then, of course, that sticks with you for a while. And it's come up a few times in interviews where clients will say, you know, why is your EMR this? And. And it's. It's almost always at or below one. But we had a year where it was above one. And I was like, you have to.

[A]

Explain it a little.

[B]

You have to explain it. But the explanation, like, well, I have people that work. Yeah, okay. And like, we're not at robot laser dogs yet. And so they're coming. I know they're coming. But in the meantime, it's like, this work is hard. You know, it just is. Like, the work is hard. You can be as safe as you can. But I mean, we've had guys that have. We had a guy who was there for 30 years and, like, he had an injury eventually, and it's like, are we really going to debate over whether his shoulder got hurt at home or at work or did he break down or did something break after 30 years of, like, him being an amazing employee? You know, it's like you can get. That's where you get lost in the numbers where, like, the numb. Whatever the number is, becomes more important than the people. Like, I can't get there.

[A]

Sure. Yeah. I don't think you should be there. I just. It's like I said, I get to see a lot of stuff. And in. The further I get, I think the better I can observe because I've. I. I now have that knowledge base and now kind of know what to look for. And it's amazing watching the same work. I had a situation not too long ago. They're doing the exact same thing. It could not be more identical. But the approach taken, one, you are a kindergartner, and don't even think we just have a rule for Everything. And so if you need to do something, you open up the rule book, you find the rule, you find the sub rule, then you find the sub sub rule, and then that's what you do. Yeah, that's it.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

So just do that. And we're never gonna have problems. But God forbid, if you think for yourself, if you make a decision, you're out. We're going to have major problems here, bucko. And then the other one was like, yeah, we, you know, we're just. We don't do hard hats anymore because we're. We're. There's nothing overhead, so we don't need them. So we got rid of them together.

[B]

Full spec.

[A]

And then when you look around, you're like, everybody enjoys it. Yeah, everybody's happy. They're doing really well.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's for. It's more enjoyable to be there. Like, it's just. It's. It's way better.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's just like, the contrast is. Is amazing. But that. And that's like. That's just rational. It's like. Yeah. Someone pointed out, like, unless we're working around something that has an overhead hazard, we don't need to cover ourselves for an overhead hazard. It's like, oh, yeah, that's pretty reasonable. Or like the whole glove thing with general contractors. It's like, I will wear gloves if I might cut my hands.

[B]

No, no, Aaron, you have to wear gloves even if you can't do your job.

[A]

You have. Yes.

[B]

You'll see an electrician trying to thread, like, the tiniest. They're trying to thread something in leather gloves. Whoever wrote this rule has never worked.

[A]

No, exactly. And. And it just makes it miserable for people. Yeah, but.

[B]

So it's like that. I think the guy that we just hired, I mean, he had built up a tremendous amount of PTO at his last job. And, I mean, we have it written down somewhere what it says about pto. But he was really concentrated on like, hey, I gotta make. I've worked so long to accumulate these five or six weeks. What's your policy? I'm like, dude, I don't know. How much do you want? You know? He goes, well, how much do you start people with? I'm like, I mean, I think we start people here. He's like, well, who would I tell if I'm at office? I'm like, I don't know, man. Just let us know if you're going on vacation. The only problem we have is if we get to the end of the year and Someone's not taking their vacation because that's indicative of like, hey, you're burning out. You're not taking time. That's a problem to what matters. But I was like, dude, I couldn't tell you how much people have when they're taking it. You know, when really when you get more. Because it's like we want people who will come do the job and who are competent and mature enough to know, man, there might be a week I got to work 50 or 60 hours and if I do that, I'll remember that there might be a week I can take off Thursday and Friday. Don't tell anyone. And it's just, that's the more entrepreneurial side of our industry that we want to be of, man. If I'm having to keep up with everyone's vacation, I am. Do we as a company are doing something wrong?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's just like the hard hat thing of just the common sense that's just gone out the window.

[A]

Or me as a employee, if I'm having to like wield my vacation time.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like it's this God given right and I, I need to use it and get away. It's like their vacation's great. Like I think everybody should be doing it. But then it's like, like it's an escape.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like you get into your vacation like, like exasperated almost. Just like, oh. And then, and then when it ends, you're just like, oh no, the storm cloud, like rolling in, back over. Yeah, like you're back in it, buster. That's not good either. Like I feel like that's a red flag for you to maybe think about something else.

[B]

What's the rest of the week look like for you?

[A]

Well, I was out of the country for a month, so I'm your travels. I am.

[B]

Dude.

[A]

I'm paying for it. I'm paying, paying for it. So the rest of the week is working all day Friday, all day Saturday, all day Sunday, but that's what I said.

[B]

And running, obviously.

[A]

Well, a lot of training too. I got a new.

[B]

When's the race week from Sunday. I just got nervous for you on your behalf.

[A]

Just a long day. Oh, it's just. You just get to go swimming, then you get to go for a bike ride and then you go for a run that perspectives.

[B]

What's the hardest part? I've heard this swim can be tough. I'm just the chaos of it.

[A]

I don't struggle with it. Like the swim itself, but I don't enjoy it at all.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because yeah you're, you can't stop if you stop one. I don't swim in open water. So. It's in open water, it's in a river. You can't see shit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is. It's so you're having to like orient yourself really fast.

[B]

I had some buddies who. They didn't do Ironman but they did triathlon to some degree and they were, they had trained in a pool a lot and they were like. I felt like I'd never trained because the open water was so hard. It was so chaotic.

[A]

Yeah. And I do pretty. I like I've done enough of other racing. Like I can, I'm. I don't get uncomfortable and I've been in water a lot. But you could, I could see somebody getting freaked the fuck out with it.

[B]

Yeah. One of them was like borderline not okay.

[A]

Yeah. Oh yeah.

[B]

He was like, man, I was messed up. Just like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what have happened, you know?

[A]

Well, because if you think like you're just, you're People are just running it because you can't see anything like in. And then you're running into people non stop. People are running into you because again you can't see anything and there's not like a lane.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like you're just aiming for a buoy that's like way down there and your goggles are kind of fogged up.

[B]

It's.

[A]

It's so swim. It's like I just get it done with bike is fun for like the first half. Then the back half. You're just like sick.

[B]

Where are you riding to train that far on your bike?

[A]

A lot of it's been indoors on a trainer.

[B]

Oh it has? Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'll say to go it was 112 miles or 100.

[A]

Yeah. 114. 112. I mean I think this one's a little longer.

[B]

I mean to do that not on a trainer, it's like. Well, you can, you'd have to go.

[A]

I mean you can do Huntsville like the. Not just Trace or something like that. There's some pretty good rides. But you don't. I don't, I don't do 100 miles training ride. I don't need to. And then the first 100 mile over 100 mile bike ride I did was an Ironman which wasn't the best play.

[B]

I did it. One of my first superintendents, his name was Eddie Phillips. He's like the. I mean the best guy. I mean the best type of this position. Unbelievable. Builder. He was from right. Right north of town. And he had the best, like, redneck country voice, was kind of high. And I think I was training for a half and I was telling him about it, and it was that look like he was just looking at me when I was telling him. Like, he had no idea why anyone would ever do that. Yeah, because this guy, you know, if he wasn't at work, he was in his way. Wood shop. Those are the only two acceptable hobbies for a man. And I was like, yeah, no, I'm running a half marathon. Like, Paul, how far is that? Right over 13 miles. He goes, paul, I don't even like driving that far. Just like, oh, well, thank you, Eddie. Those are the best parts of this industry.

[A]

Oh, yeah, the characters.

[B]

You could talk all day about them. And then me and another guy, we were at a hospital doing. We'd work there for years and they had a gym there. And so we'd go. We'd work out after hours. So it's like at 4:30, he was going home, but we'd go to the gym and we'd walk by and he'd go, well, but don't you boys look so tough going to get your muscles bigger? Like, oh, man, he's roasting us.

[A]

There was one recently. It was this guy, like, big white beard, trucker for forever, since he was out of the womb, like, since he.

[B]

Got off the ark.

[A]

Yeah, really nice guy. But, like, just like, if I saw him at a bar, I wouldn't talk to him. I'd be a little scared. We put a camera in the truck because we were shooting him driving and he. We get the. We get the footage back and it's like, you know, the music you were thinking was going to be like hard rock or Metallica or something like that. And it's like stuff like I might hear on the radio. I'm like, okay, yeah, whatever works, man. Yeah, good for you, dude.

[B]

It's amazing.

[A]

All right, well, thanks for.

[B]

Thanks for having me.

[A]

Yeah, I figured instead of just catching up somewhere, we'd catch up on the podcast and I feel like it worked out pretty well.

[B]

Awesome. Thanks, man.

[A]

Yeah, enjoy.

[B]

Appreciate it.