Paving Louisville w/ Hunter Strickler of Louisville Paving – DT 360

Summary

Dirt Talk Podcast Summary: "Paving Louisville with Hunter Strickler of Louisville Paving – DT 360"

Episode Title: Paving Louisville w/ Hunter Strickler of Louisville Paving – DT 360
Release Date: July 31, 2025
Host: Aaron Witt, Founder of BuildWitt
Guest: Hunter Strickler, President of Louisville Paving

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1. Introduction to Guests and Topics

In this engaging episode of Dirt Talk, host Aaron Witt welcomes Hunter Strickler, President of Louisville Paving, to discuss the intricacies of managing a family-owned construction business in a competitive metropolitan area. The conversation delves into safety culture, leadership dynamics, industry collaborations, and the evolving landscape of construction in Louisville, Kentucky.

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2. Emphasizing Safety Culture in Construction

Aaron and Hunter kick off the discussion by underscoring the importance of an authentic safety culture within construction companies. Hunter emphasizes that safety must be ingrained at every leadership level rather than relying solely on the safety department.

Hunter Strickler (00:00): "It has to be authentic all the way through. So, like, I can say we're going to think about safety first on everything we do. But, like, it has to mean something. I have to show it, and it has to show through every level of leadership."

Aaron agrees, highlighting the necessity of empowering field leaders like superintendents and foremen to take charge of safety initiatives.

Aaron Witt (02:15): "If you're trying to really, like, change something in what we do... you have to repeat it over and over... and explore the 'whys'."

The conversation transitions into effective communication strategies, stressing the need for repetition and varied messaging to ensure safety practices are understood and embraced by all team members.

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3. Personal Backgrounds and Family Business

Hunter shares his early experiences working in the family business, Tenatrac Sports Surfaces, building tennis courts and running tracks. He reflects on how these formative years provided a solid foundation, although he initially pursued a degree in liberal arts with aspirations for law school.

Hunter Strickler (10:59): "My first job actually we had a company called Tenatrac Sports Surfaces that built tennis courts and running tracks... It was a pretty successful business for 30, 40 years."

Aaron recounts his own early involvement in the family’s asphalt business, detailing the challenges faced during his initial management role and the critical decision to pivot the company’s focus.

Aaron Witt (16:15): "I was, your first job... working with crews that were much older than me... It was a great learning experience."

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4. Navigating Challenges in the Family-Owned Construction Business

The dialogue delves into the complexities of managing a family business, particularly the balance between maintaining tradition and embracing necessary change. Hunter discusses the pivotal moment when he recognized the need to close the struggling tennis court division to focus on the more profitable asphalt paving sector.

Hunter Strickler (16:23): "It was a tough realization and a tough conversation to have. But we ended up closing that part of our business."

Aaron credits his mentorship from outside the family, which was instrumental in his decision to stay and lead the asphalt division. This mentorship provided him with accountability and practical leadership skills that were crucial for his development.

Hunter Strickler (17:16): "He held me accountable, and he put his arm around me, and he said... we're gonna get you up. I want you to be the lead sales guy by the time I get done with you."

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5. Industry Trends and Collaborations in Louisville

Aaron and Hunter explore the competitive nature of the construction industry in Louisville, emphasizing the shift towards collaboration among contractors. They discuss how large-scale projects, such as data centers and infrastructure developments, have necessitated partnerships rather than cutthroat competition.

Hunter Strickler (35:19): "I think part of the future of the industry is more contractors working together."

They highlight specific local projects, including a new maintenance hangar for UPS and collaborations with major civil construction firms like Kiewit. These partnerships have not only expanded their operational capabilities but also enhanced their reputation within the industry.

Aaron Witt (47:31): "We're working alongside them, so it's been impressive. I think there's a few more of those in the works in our area. There's more of those everywhere."

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6. The Rise of Data Centers and Infrastructure Demands

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on the burgeoning demand for data centers and the associated infrastructure challenges. Aaron discusses the immense energy requirements of modern data centers and the strain they place on existing power grids.

Aaron Witt (55:00): "The large-scale infrastructure is a saving grace right now."

Hunter shares insights from a project in the Netherlands, where steel-plated haul roads were implemented to combat wet soil conditions, showcasing innovative solutions adopted globally.

Hunter Strickler (45:34): "Everything... their haul roads were steel plated, like giant steel plates. They ran the numbers, and it was brilliant."

They also touch upon the environmental and logistical implications of expanding power capacity to support these massive projects, pondering the sustainability of such growth.

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7. Leadership and Company Growth: Balancing Tradition and Innovation

Discussing leadership within a growing company, Hunter and Aaron emphasize the importance of promotion from within and fostering a culture of mentorship. Hunter praises Kevin, their COO, for mentoring the next generation of leaders and maintaining the company’s growth trajectory.

Hunter Strickler (25:03): "He's mentored all of us and has been really important in our growth and success."

Aaron reflects on the challenges of balancing operational efficiency with maintaining a family-oriented culture, advocating for a people-first approach that fosters trust and collaboration.

Aaron Witt (120:03): "We've been very intentional about promotion from within, developing people, and just that's what we're going to do."

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8. Building a Unified Company Culture and Emphasizing Collaboration

The conversation highlights the transition from siloed business segments to a unified, collaborative culture. Hunter discusses the implementation of integrated project management and estimating systems to streamline operations and enhance data sharing across departments.

Hunter Strickler (85:14): "We use Innate, developed by Kiewit, for our project management and estimating on the Louisville paving side, and Procore for our wastewater treatment projects."

Aaron shares the benefits of fostering interdepartmental collaboration, which has led to more efficient bid reviews and project execution.

Aaron Witt (75:18): "Sharing that knowledge is priceless. It's fun because I'm the least technically minded person in our entire business, so I get to observe and ask the obvious questions that sometimes get ignored."

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9. Conclusion and Key Takeaways

The episode concludes with Aaron and Hunter reaffirming the importance of continuous learning, humility, and adapting to industry changes. They advocate for a safety-first mindset that is culturally embedded rather than solely rule-based, emphasizing that authentic leadership and trust are pivotal in fostering a successful, family-owned construction business.

Hunter Strickler (122:20): "If you think the safety department's gonna come out and save your ass, then you're crazy."

Aaron Witt (132:14): "Empowering people to lead safety efforts is crucial for a genuine safety culture."

Key Takeaways:

• Authentic Safety Culture: Safety must be a core value demonstrated by all leadership levels and empowered field leaders.
• Mentorship and Leadership Development: External mentors can provide essential accountability and skills for managing family businesses.
• Industry Collaboration: Partnering with other contractors on large-scale projects enhances operational capabilities and industry standing.
• Adaptation to Trends: Embracing technological advancements and innovative infrastructure solutions is vital for staying competitive.
• Unified Company Culture: Integrating business segments and fostering collaboration leads to more efficient operations and better project outcomes.
• Continuous Learning and Humility: Leaders must remain open to learning and humble, recognizing that no one knows everything and collaboration leads to success.

This episode of Dirt Talk offers valuable insights into managing growth, fostering a strong safety culture, and leading a family-owned business in the dynamic construction industry of Louisville, Kentucky.

Transcript

[A]

It has to be authentic all the way through. So, like, I can say we're going to think about safety first on everything we do. But, like, it has to mean something. I have to show it, and it has to show through every level of leadership. And then you also just have to empower your field leadership. Like the superintendents and foremen. They should be leading your safety effort, not the safety department.

[B]

No, they're.

[A]

They're like, if you think. If you think the safety department's going to come out and save your ass.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Then you're crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you need to take pride in the fact that you operate safely at a field leadership level.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, that has to mean something to you. And it's. I mean, it's a behavioral change because. No, people don't like rules.

[B]

We have, like, a monthly book club going right now for. For leadership.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Than anybody who wants to be involved.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And so we're reading one book a quarter. Meet for an hour once a quarter. Like, it's. It's very low lift. We're leading. We're reading Extreme Ownership right now. Because that's a pretty good one.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

It's a. It's a good. I mean, it's. I've read it at least five times. It's. It's just a great, great.

[A]

Way different every time.

[B]

Yeah. And one of the chapters we just read week or two ago was about how you, as a leader, like, it's your responsibility to ensure people have the information and understand the information.

[A]

Right.

[B]

If they don't, that's not their fault. It's your fault. It's like, that's a very good reminder.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Very good reminder.

[A]

And we talk about this with our leadership team all the time, more frequently than ever. But it's. It sounds like you're being repetitive. Yeah. Like, hey, I already heard that from you, Hunter. Like, you don't need to say that again. But it's like. No, but if we're trying to really, like, change something in what we do. I don't know. I think one time I heard is like, a rule of seven. Like, people need to hear it seven times for it to really sink in. And you don't want to, like, belittle that. People, like, don't understand what you're saying. Sure. But if you really want it to stick, you have to repeat it over and over and over again. And, like, the whys, not like, this is what we're doing. See you tomorrow. But it's like, why are we doing it? And why do we believe in it. And how's it going to change their day?

[B]

Oh, it's. But a great example. A great. Something very powerful that totally does away with that. That notion of being repetitive is church. Like, it's the same thing.

[A]

It's the exact same thing.

[B]

It's the same thing every Sunday.

[A]

Like, you're absolutely right.

[B]

One of my favorite sayings is spoiled as repetition doesn't spoil the prayer. It's like you say the same thing every week for a reason.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

This is foundational.

[A]

We need to.

[B]

Even if we understand it, to repeat things and repeat things and repeat things, and then it's not. It's. It's. You also have to say things in different ways and work things into. Into language. So, yeah, like, I don't think a podcast for a construction company is by any stretch of the imagination. The. The end all, be all magic bullet. But it's a. It's a really nice tool. That's totally different.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

When it comes to communicating, especially for the field.

[A]

Yeah. It's funny you use the church example, because it is. It's like every week, and it's a calendar, and they do it every year over and over and over again.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm reminding myself of that currently because I have three kids that are five and under, and we try to take them to church every Sunday and I don't hear anything. Yeah. I'm there, like, for the ceremonial piece of it, but I don't get the message. But I'm like, I've heard it before. I'll get bits and pieces to put it back together. But it's Easter, you know.

[B]

He's risen again. Exactly. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, yeah. They're kneeling again. I guess that's where we are. Chase my kid down the hallway. Sure.

[B]

With kids, it's just a total, total mess.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, you're. You're trying to have something sink in, but it's more like get them in the rhythm.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it all. Is it all one wherever you go? Like, are the kids in the. Is it just one Mass?

[A]

So my wife is Catholic. I am. I'm not Catholic. But we are. We've chosen to raise our kids in that church. And we call ourselves kind of roaming Catholics at this point, we haven't settled into a parish. Our oldest is five. And so we go where we can make it depending on.

[B]

But this is like Mass.

[A]

It's Mass. Okay. Some have Sunday school, some don't. Yeah. And my oldest is just now getting to the age of Sunday school. I think I had pretty emphatically told him this Sunday he will be going to Sunday school next week because I just can't. I just can't chase him and keep him behaved the whole time and get any purpose out of it.

[B]

How was like an hour and a half? Yeah. An hour.

[A]

Hour, usually. Yeah.

[B]

But that, that's, that's a long time for fire.

[A]

It is, absolutely. And his sister's three and the youngest is one and so, yeah, him, it's. And he'd get more out of going and doing the kids portion and I mean, yeah, everyone who's gone through that in life, there's the, the Sunday school part is fun. Like you make friends and you learn a little bit about why you're there.

[B]

And I honestly, I haven't been good at going to church as an adult, but when as a kid. And I really enjoyed Sunday school. Yeah, we had a great Sunday school.

[A]

That's, that's like before you're really questioning anything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're there to like enjoy it and.

[B]

Like meet people and you know, there's goldfish at the.

[A]

Exactly. I remember eliminating cookies was my. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Lemonade. Yeah, yeah. Every Sunday school has their snack.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

I really enjoyed it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Does he come around the business much?

[A]

My five year old? Yeah, I try to. Yeah, we try. Not as much as I'd probably like. And it's funny, like, I didn't really grow up that way, so it's like my step family's business. My stepdad was in my household since I was 6 years old and he didn't really like thrust it on us. I'm trying to like, he's at that age where like heavy equipment is like the coolest thing in the world. So I'm trying to expose him to it a little bit more. And on a weekend when we need to go to the house, we'll just go drive through the yard and hopefully there's not too much equipment sitting, but there's always something and we can go touch it and play on it. Exactly. I'm like, why is this here? At least my son will have fun on it.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So I try to do that. And he loves coming to the office. The office is fun. There's snacks everywhere. Yeah. There's toys everywhere. So like. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

I love my. My d. Dad worked at like one of the world's most unexciting companies for a child, Deloitte.

[A]

I mean, like, it's been boring for most adults. Yeah, but.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but, but I loved it because they like you. Once I found the office supply room because, I mean, it was a serious office. So they had a whole room with office supplies. And he was a partner. You could kind of get away with.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And so you could go raid that with the highlighters and all the stuff. You didn't need anything else.

[A]

Yeah, they don't need to be toys. Kids just want to play with anything.

[B]

Yeah. It's funny on the yard thing too. I. When I. When I. I got a job at a construction company while I was in college and they had their yard attached to the office, which I was so excited about because that's where all the equipment was. And I was under the assumption that, like, I don't know, I didn't think they like brought the equipment home every night.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I thought it was a construction company. So they'd have a lot of machines out back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That was not at all. Not a good model.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No.

[A]

If it's there, it's usually in some pieces.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Or just junk. Yeah. To get rid of. Yeah. I. So, yeah, that. That went out the window. It was. It was a huge bummer because. Yeah.

[A]

It was totally.

[B]

Maybe a skip, you know, skid steer in the back.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Everything else.

[A]

Right.

[B]

In the field.

[A]

No.

[B]

So you didn't. I think your background is interesting because you didn't. You kind of grew up around the business.

[A]

How old is the company? The company started in 1949, so it's been around a little over 75 years.

[B]

Been around a while.

[A]

It has.

[B]

And then your stepdad came in your life, really?

[A]

When I was six. I'm late 30s now, so. Really early. Yeah. So second dad, like totally blessed to have another father figure and all those things.

[B]

And it's. It was his family's business.

[A]

His family's business. So it was always. So they started construction in 1949, but before that they delivered coal to people's homes to heat their homes for their furnaces. So all the old buildings you go to. And there's a coal chute going down to the basement. That's where they'd go. They'd pull up someone's house and rake the coal out and drop it down the chute.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So they had our old office for over 100 years. Was right outside, like right on the edge of downtown Louisville and had a railroad stint. And they'd drop the coal, that is, and take it places.

[B]

But then from probably Kentucky coal, too.

[A]

Probably. Yeah. And I think there was a Daugherty Coal company at some point where they actually maybe Had a mine somewhere. I need to know my history better, but no one really talks.

[B]

Yeah, sure. Yeah. But yeah, you're a little past the coal business.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. So. And then the gas lines came in in like the 40s and they had to pivot and they had trucks that they hauled coal with and so they started hauling asphalt. That eventually led to paving some driveways and buying an asphalt plant. So our first asphalt plant sat in that same yard. Really, I worked at that asphalt plant in high school. And then finally the neighborhood grew up around it so much that they forced them out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they moved out to the suburbs. And after some time in 2017, we finally moved out to the east side of Louisville. Sure to have a bigger office because we were growing luckily at a pretty good rate. And we had people like buried in janitor closets and tucked away in the basement on this tiny little campus. I mean it really wasn't much. It was the office on part of it like a quonset hut for our equipment shop where they like piece things together. A couple other off buildings where we had like forced some offices into. I mean I probably had four different offices on that campus at some point.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, it's just been an evolution. But it was cool to see.

[B]

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[A]

My first job actually we had a company called Tenatrac Sports Surfaces that built tennis courts and running tracks and and all that sort of thing. My grandfather started in like the 70s. Okay. Before they really had like a USDA that like specified how tennis courts should be built and stuff. And so he was kind of Part of that evolution, I had some family members that were big into tennis and they're like, hey, we have the equipment to do this. Let's go do it. And actually, it was a pretty successful business for 30, 40 years. Built a lot of the complexes around the Midwest and Southeast. University of Kentucky, Louisville, Notre Dame, Alabama, like all these really cool places. By the time I got there, tennis had kind of faded in popularity a little bit. But we traveled all over Kentucky. Yeah, pickleball is the funniest, funniest story. I have a good tidbit on that. Back when I was doing this. And so I started. I was like 15 years old when I first got dropped off. Like, all my friends were starting summer jobs as lifeguards or caddies at the golf course or whatever they're doing, working at McDonald's or coffee shops. And I got dropped off to my flight the first week I was there. We drove to West Virginia to build some tennis courts, like a state park there. It was from Louisville was three and a half hours or so. I thought it was like going to be the coolest thing ever. I remember my mom being in a complete panic, like, you're doing what? You're getting dropped off to travel with who? But it was really neat and I got to work with my hands and. And they didn't let me do a whole lot. I was the edge guy. I painted edges and rolled the wheelbarrow around and mixed paint. But it was a neat experience. And. But I never thought I was going to go the construction route. That was a great job. I made more money in the summers than like any of my friends could dream of at that point, which was super nice, which was really co. But it was also 50 or 60 hour weeks and they were all working like 15. So it was a little different too. But it was a. It was a really good base. Never thought I'd do construction. Went to college, studied, you know, liberal arts.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, Miami University in, In Miami of Ohio. Oh, not, not quite as sexy as the other Miami, but yeah, way different vibe. Way different great college experience. Way different vibe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But yeah, art. I'm like liberal arts. I was a history political science major. Thought I'd go like the law school route. Never thought of going back into the family business, but I never really knew what I wanted to be. It was just like that made the most sense to me. I was always told I was a good arguer and that type of thing. And so, yeah, law school seemed logical and then graduated in 2009, like during the Recession and everyone was going back to school and no one could find a job. And the tennis court business that we had was kind of fledgling. The guy who had ran it for a long time was leaving for a different opportunity because it wasn't doing that well. And so I had the opportunity to go back and manage a business which I'd never done back in the tennis court business. So I was traveling around Kentucky quoting tennis courts. And at that time it was nothing exciting. I mean, no one was building anything new.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I was driving four hours to look at cracks on a tennis court and work up an estimate that took me 15 minutes and then driving back. So I wish I would have had podcasts back then because it was, it was terrible. But it was a really great experience. And I had usually like two or three crews. So like 12 guys, they had to show up to work every day and they needed somewhere to go. So I mean, the pressure of that, like, work, like I controlled all the business development, I worked up all the estimates, I went to all the bid openings and then they'd come in on Monday and they'd be like, what do we got to do this week? And the last thing you want is to tell people they're not going to get their hours. And these guys been doing it for a long time.

[B]

Oh, and you're this kid.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What, you're 22, 23.

[A]

23 years old. And I've got 50 year olds like reporting to me now that I used to work for in the summertime. Like that was a really weird dichotomy. I don't recommend it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it was a great learning experience and I think I gained a lot of respect from them along the way because I think they'd always had like kind of just a strange relationship with the old manager and they, they just did their own thing. And so I had also worked there. I knew what worked and didn't work and the information that they did need. But it was just keeping them busy for like three or four years. And then finally it really just wasn't improving. Like the business wasn't improving, the market wasn't improving. And I finally went to my family and was like, I'm not going to be here any longer if I don't have a change. I don't think these guys are having any fun anymore. And this business is not making any money and no one really cares about it because the rest of our construction business was kind of really taken off and it was growing and we were kind of just off on the Side, and there were no meetings about how our finances were doing. Like, there was nothing. It was just like, okay, keep them busy, and we'll talk to you later if you, like, really mess something up. And so, luckily, we avoided that. But that was a tough, like, realization and a tough conversation to have. But we ended up closing that part of our business. We found other positions in the company as it grew for those people. So that was good. Like, we didn't have to get rid of anybody that didn't want to go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And actually, we still have a few of those guys working in the business today. And that was, man, like, 10 or 11 years ago.

[B]

So was that you that initiated that conversation?

[A]

Yeah, I had to initiate that conversation with my stepdad and uncle.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I guess, like, the good side of a family business is that's where they had, like, started as well, and they kind of understood the dynamic, and they also could tell, obviously, the rest of the business was taking off. And, like, tenantrack at that point was just such a small part of what we did, and there was just no focus on it. I think, luckily, them, as leaders as well, recognized, like, we're not focusing on it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How much can we expect out of it? And Hunter's right. Like, at this point, there aren't even bid opportunities. Like, let's. I got to be brought into the asphalt division, which is, again, kind of the family tradition, was going up the asphalt route. So I got to join the asphalt division as a, like, junior project manager, learn how to bid parking lots and. Yeah, city streets and that sort of thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And for me, like, I had definitely, if one foot out the door, I was, like, two feet out the door, like, being drugged back into the business. I was kind of done with it at that point. But going into the asphalt division, I got my first true mentor, like, outside my family, and that changed everything forever. Like, that is. And I've told this guy, like, you are the reason I'm still in this business. And what did he do? He held me accountable, and he put his arm around me, and he said, like, okay, I get it. Like, you're one of the owner's sons, but, like, you need to be the first person here every morning and the last one to leave. Yeah, like, we're gonna get your. Where. I'm gonna teach you up. But, like, I want you to be, like, the lead sales guy by the time I get done with you. Like, I know you know nothing right now. It was, like, all the right things. Like, I know you know nothing. I have no expectations for you, but I'm gonna hold you accountable. He taught me lessons about how to talk to, you know, customers when there's a problem. Like don't hide it. Like if you're not the first one to call, then it's going to be a much bigger problem. If they're calling you first, then you're part of my French. It's a shit storm at that point. Like if something doesn't go right, just call them and let them know. Like everyone screws up and it's. And things don't go to plan most of the time. Right.

[B]

So when you're the one to catch it, like it typically goes pretty well. Like it's way scarier in your head.

[A]

Like way scarier.

[B]

Like sometimes it does go pretty bad.

[A]

There are always tough people to deal with. But generally like you said, like most of the time they just want whatever they ask you to do to get done.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're gonna pay you a fair price to do it as long as you communicate properly and give them what they asked for. But if they, with the little they know about what you're doing because they're hiring you to do it. Right. They don't how to do it. If they notice there's a problem and they haven't heard from you and they have to like confront you about it. Sure. Then that becomes such a bigger deal.

[B]

Or the, the deadline passes and you're still working. Yeah.

[A]

And you haven't told them why or. Yeah, exactly. It's really not that complicated. But to have somebody that like puts their arm around you and like teaches you those things along the way, is there maybe for like that first hard phone call you have to make. Like let's do it together.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or I'll go to that meeting with you and be the gray haired guy. Like that's, that's one of the things in the construction industry. Like I don't think we always talk about enough. But like, or like any industry is like people with a little bit of, you know, the figurative gray hair just get a little bit more respect. Like there's more lenient. So again, as like a 26 year old trying to manage a job and you're building it for a much older professional.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They just don't treat you quite the same as somebody that's their peer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I think that's probably in every industry.

[B]

But I, but, but, and this is where I think younger people go wrong, is they, they let that hurt their feelings. Yeah. It's like no no, no, it's not about your feelings. Like, like work with that rather than against it. Like, I've never, I've never had. I've never tried to prove that I'm the man because.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

I know I'm a dumb. Dumb. I don't. I don't. I don't need to be the man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm just gonna, I'm gonna go find who the man is and I'm gonna ask them and they're probably gonna help me.

[A]

Yes. I am now truly a professional at saying I don question, but I have a whole building of people that do. So, like, let me connect you with the right person. I don't. I don't have to be the engineer. I don't have to be the subject matter expert.

[B]

No. No.

[A]

So. But that is a lesson you have to learn. Like, I think our generation in particular got us so ground into us in school. Like, you need to go get a college degree and then a professional degree and you need to be a subject matter expert in something. And I think that's where me going to law school came from.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I felt like I knew I didn't want to be a doctor. Okay, so what's the next professional degree where I know everything about what I'm supposed to be doing? Right. And that's a false narrative. Like, even lawyers don't know everything about, like they're, they are subject matter experts in their own little world. So it's like reason we probably don't have a head legal counsel our business yet is because that person would just be subbing out other lawyers. So, I mean, we're just. At some point, I'm sure we'll get to the size where we need somebody in our business every day.

[B]

But you're pretty good sized company.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's still not all that effective.

[A]

You're still just connecting the dots, right?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And so acknowledging the things you don't know is just as important as stuff you do. So.

[B]

Yeah. And it is interesting though, you do have to learn those. Learn those lessons. You need somebody to teach them to you. You're probably not going to get it in school.

[A]

No.

[B]

And then especially from a family business, like, I don't. I've said this 100 times over. I don't envy anybody in a family business growing up in a. That's a hard position to be in.

[A]

It's tough. Yeah.

[B]

Because you do have this shadow following you around that is like, oh, you're using the family. Like, sure. And you have that clear chip on Your shoulder. And so you have to go prove yourself. You have to go work harder than anybody else.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And then. And then, like, you can only learn so many lessons from the family.

[A]

Oftentimes you're usually, in my experience, and this is not, like, to my family's detriment, but you're, like, the first one they're going to neglect.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, figure it out. Like, I don't know how many times I was told, like, I don't know. Just go figure it out. Like, what do you want to do? Find something that you like and you have the opportunity to, like, do something with it. Yeah. When you have no clue what you want to do. No, that's not great advice. So, like, really, for me, it was finding another person outside our family who really was, like, not gonna let me fail. That was huge for me.

[B]

Yeah. Standard. It's just a totally different relationship, different standards, everything. Like, I was. I was able to pick up, like, I had a friend's dad who taught me a lot about business. Not about, like, business day to day, but, like, the mentality of business.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I think is invaluable. I. I was able to pick up a lot more than I. Than my friend, because he wasn't my dad. I feel like.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

It wasn't because I'm smarter. It was just because I'm on the outside, he's on the inside. And then you have this, like, especially with your own family, too, you can have this, like, rebellious dynamic as well. Like, when your parents are telling you to do something, it could be totally right, but you could just feel like, kick rocks. You don't tell me what to do.

[A]

That's exactly.

[B]

Yeah, that. That person on the outside is key.

[A]

What was their position at that time? He led our asphalt paving division. Okay. All right. So now he's our coo. And, yeah, his. His career has grown and blossomed. And I've been able to, like, I was an understudy for probably, gosh, five or six years, and then I got to take over the asphalt division as he moved up. And so I ran our asphalt division for a couple of years. And we've always been, like, probably from his lead. And also my stepdad and uncle is just big on the succession planning part of things. Like, we like to think in construction, it is one of the few industries, like promotion from within is such a big thing, and we really believe in it, but you always got to bring the person up behind you. And so once I realized that opportunity was there and they could trust that I was Actually, on that trajectory, like, I was able to follow him. And it also created. As the company grew and we created, like, this whole nother tier of leadership. Like, we never had a CEO before, but at some point we needed one. And he understood business well enough. He didn't need to understand all the different segments and, like, how things were built, but how to run. Run the business and, like, the metrics that you need to understand whether you're being successful or not. And he's just. He is a. He's a people leader. Like, he's a coach. And so in my generation of leadership now in the business, there's probably like four or five of us that have come up kind of together.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

He's probably mentored all of us.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And so he's just been really important in all of our growth and in the success of the business. And it's. And it's not because. So, again, he was a guy who didn't come up in construction.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

He sold, like, copper metal, I think, for a long time.

[B]

Sure. Yeah.

[A]

And then came into our business as a driveway salesman. But he understood, like, what was important, like, the people aspect, like, bringing people up, coaching them to be the best they can be. Doing the right thing, Looking professional, like, definitely matters, like, how you look out there and how you appear to not only yourself, but the customers. Like, kind of branding yourself. Not necessarily, like, the marketing piece, but, man, does that paver look like it's about to fall apart? Does that crew wear the proper ppe? And this is back when all that stuff didn't necessarily matter as much, but, like, let's take ourselves seriously.

[B]

How does the foreman talk to the inspector? Yeah.

[A]

We're not that far removed, but, like, truly from, like, when you open your truck door that has our brand on the side of it, our beer cans rolling out, like, that's like, yeah, yeah. And we're like, that's definitely, like, not acceptable these days. But within my career, that was not that.

[B]

No. Like, no. Oh, no, no. I talked to this. I talked to. I talked to guys all about. All the time about this that are like, yeah, they're in their, like, 40s. Like. Yeah, that's how I came up. I mean, drinking on the job was common.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, it's still. I was. I was in Europe. We were on a project. Everybody was on break. They were all having beers.

[A]

I'm, like, on break, too. They're going back to work.

[B]

Yeah. And then they go back to work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

But very European.

[B]

That's German.

[A]

A beer, Glass of wine at once. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Very, very. Yeah. Germans are drinking it.

[A]

Like, that's awesome. Yeah.

[B]

But it. It was the first time I'd seen it because I. I had, you know, I started in. What was it, 2013. Yeah, 2013.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that at that point, safety was big.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Trash boxes, hard hats, you know, everything.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

That was all standard.

[A]

It's a good thing. But, yeah, it's. It's a remarkable how fast it's changed.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. But. But to think it's just been in. In less than one career that.

[A]

Oh, absolutely.

[B]

All that has changed, seemingly. Yes.

[A]

And when you think about people, I mean, we have people that have worked for our company for 30, 40, 50 years. Like, they've seen all of that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they've had to come along, and that's just. It's amazing how different it is.

[B]

Well, and. And, And. And just. I mean, this, like, you've alluded to just the size of the company, I'm sure since you started to where it is now, like, you guys do a lot of work.

[A]

We do.

[B]

There's a lot going on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So the growth has been pretty amazing. It's been a lot of fun.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's also kind of unreal that, like, most of it's transpired since I've been around, so I've been able to witness all of it.

[B]

I can't. That's what I mean.

[A]

I definitely don't want to take credit by any means for most of it, but it's just fantastic to, like, see and, like, all the. There's so many changes that have to happen, but it's all, like, you just try to make it as positive as you can and you keep going and. And it's really cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I remember we used to, you know, we barely had any sort of safety presence back when I started, but we'd have these safety meetings up in our shop, and we'd unfold, you know, a bunch of chairs enough for our whole company to sit up there at one time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And listen to the same speech from my uncle, probably about wearing hard hats and try to wear your safety vest and if you have to take your shirt off, like, you know, whatever those types of conversations, it was not truly about, like, safety. It was just, like, kind of a reason to get everybody together and, like, talk about common sense a little bit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, yeah, we would all fit in the same tiny shop. I mean, I'm telling you, tiny shop and folding metal chairs. And now we're 630ish people.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I went to your annual meeting this year. It's like, wow, this is just to see. Because that's the only time you see everybody in one place.

[A]

Right. We try to do quarterly meetings, but we have to break it into like seven or eight meetings.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Get in front of everybody.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In our training center, which. Our training center now probably seats more than our shop did. It's just a different world. Yeah, but that matters. Like, you want to get in front of everybody and it goes a long way. Yeah, it does.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That was a lot of money. We were excited to have you up at that event. That was cool. That was our. Our first ever equipment rodeo as well.

[B]

Oh, it was super well done.

[A]

It was fun.

[B]

But even just pulling into the parking lot, like seeing all the trucks in the parking lot, man, this is.

[A]

It's mind boggling. It really is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, I mean, in 15 years, I think this will be my 15th year post college. I don't give myself credits for the summers in high school and college. I guess it'd be 20 plus if I added all that up. But the 15 years of actually being back in the business, I think when I first came back, we were probably like 80 people. And so just that growth has been a local contractor.

[B]

And now you're absolutely the road builder.

[A]

In your area or one of them. Yeah, we are, I guess. But so competitive just being in a large metropolitan. I mean, I don't think the rest of the world would think Louisville, Kentucky's big, but there's a lot of competition.

[B]

But I think Louisville is super underrated. Every time I've been up there, I'm like, I like it up here.

[A]

It's a great place. Everybody kind of battles with their hometown. I mean, that's where I was born and raised. But it's a fantastic place. It's a wonderful place to raise a family. The cost of living is not so bad.

[B]

Oh, it's great.

[A]

It's fun. Yeah, it's beautiful. It's green.

[B]

Well, it's funny, I. Whenever I drive up there, I go, you know, you go, jones brothers.

[A]

That's right. I just drove through one of their job sites coming down.

[B]

Yeah. Jones brothers drops off and Scotty's picks up, picks up, and then Scotty's drops off and then you guys pick up. Yeah, it's all three.

[A]

I drove through one of each job site on my way down here. I 65 every time.

[B]

Every time. Yeah, it's.

[A]

It's funny. Like, I think we all used to, like, Beat our heads against each other all the time too. And I've never worked with Jones brothers because of the Scotty's gap between. Yeah. But now, like Scotty's, we've partnered on a few jobs. It's like, I think that mentality is changing in our industry too. I think it used to be so just like lines drawn and like we're going to battle like tooth and nail for everything. And then now like, maybe it's because some of the jobs have just gotten so much bigger too. But it's like why pour so much risk into making sure you don't get any of it when like maybe we could work together.

[B]

Well, and I think the construction industry, civil construction industry, they, they've picked like the wrong enemy. They've, they've, they've thought because of the way bidding and the whole structure, like you think that these names on the bid lists are, are your competition.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But like, yes, like at face value. Sure. But if you're just beating each other up, that just, that just reduces margins for you both. It just, it just poisons the marketplace and you're the first person to lose. And I think that's where I think part of it's driven by the market because the projects are huge, they're just getting bigger.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, and, and I have mixed feelings about that because likewise, I don't know if that's a very good trend. It's a great trend if I'm kiewit. But Right, right.

[A]

For like the middle sized contractor ourselves, like you scale up to be able to tackle these incredibly huge projects, which is a great opportunity. Like I'm thrilled that we are large enough to even like play in those arenas. But what happens when the economy slows down or you go back to all your eggs in one basket? Exactly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Being diversified is like more important than ever. But you also have to be able to like jump on these mega data center jobs and things like that.

[B]

Yeah. Which, and I like, you got to make hay with the sunshine and. But there's, I mean there's like some monster companies. I know, like biggest companies, biggest dot contractors in certain states have been like, hey, we can't, we're not even going to bid this job. And it's like, what do you mean? That's the biggest job that's ever come to your state. It's like. Right, that's the point.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We're not going to bid it.

[A]

Yeah. Well, how do I serve the customers that are going to be here when it's done?

[B]

Yeah. That's the biggest.

[A]

That is the biggest quandary. It's like, I need to keep crews available for the guys that I've been working for for decades. Right. I can't just be like, all right, we'll see you in five years. That's just, that's not going to work well.

[B]

And, and I've also seen contractors, they've, they've scaled up for these one, you know, these giant projects that have just magically appeared over the past, especially five years.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

Even past 10 years with some of the warehouse stuff. Amazon. Yeah.

[A]

It's not all public. It's not all just like.

[B]

No, a lot of it's been piewhist.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. But they, they scale up and then they're, they're now like, oh, shit, what do we do with 50 trucks? And it's like, that's a great question. I don't know.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And now you're, you know, I just, I don't know what you do.

[A]

No, I mean, we saw that coming out of COVID in our market. There was a design build that got let that we actually didn't bid because it was so big and it would have taken up so many resources. It was in our backyard. I mean, you've driven through it. But it took so many trucks from the market for like three years that, that became not only like post Covid, like trucking companies, I think globally kind of suffered from COVID Yeah. But then having an extremely large job like that kind of come out of the blue because we'd never had anything even close to that scale. It sucked like all the trucks out of the market. And so then you're like, well, do we scale up our internal fleet? But then on the back end, what happened? Yeah. And then still there are no truck drivers. So I can, Sure, I can place an order to get 20 more dump trucks, triaxial dump trucks, like a year and a half from now. Yeah, but what's it. Who am I going to hire? And so that was a. We're luckily on the other side of that now. But that happens all the time.

[B]

Yeah. But I think, I guess going back to the original point, it's great that these contractors are working together. I think it's. I think it's a fantastic thing because I really do think we're all in this together. It's just one market. It's, you know, like we're all bidding on the same projects. We're. We're all working with the same labor market.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

If, if, if And I think that's the future of the industry and that's where we're pushing with like the summit, for example, and other things we're doing is hey, we're going to work with the contractors that want to go into the future. And if you want to keep doing what you're doing, that's fine. I'm not here to tell you what to do with your business, but I do see more of the marketplace than most and I'm. I don't know where the. I don't know what's in the future, but I'm placing a bet that it's more contractors working together.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And so we're going to help facilitate that.

[A]

Well, and going back to our earlier conversation is like you can't be an expert in every part of construction either. So like why try to be everything for everybody, like stick to what you're good at and then partner with people that do things better than you as well. Like why not?

[B]

Well, and you guys like you have the materials business or the trucking business, right? Yeah. You don't go bid this project and sign up, you know, put your name on it.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

You're still, there's still pieces of that that I'm sure you're serving.

[A]

Right. We don't self perform everything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean. Yeah, it'd be impossible.

[B]

Yeah, no, it will, it just. And it would just be dumb.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

And it is impossible now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Especially with like government money. You can't. Because you need to meet the certain MBE requirements. Cbe. Yeah, yeah. All that kind of stuff.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And you just.

[A]

Well, and it's no way to scale a business either. I mean the more you can safely subcontract and lay off risk and all those things helps you scale as well. And the limited, I mean everything's limited. I mean the people, limited resource equipment, limited resource, all of it is. So how do you maximize that? That's what we're always, that's the equation we're always working on.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Even I've only been out to one year projects, but with the amount of subs you had out there. Tons.

[A]

That was a special one. Yeah, that was neat.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. But they like you did the hydro demolition. So you had the hydro demolition sub, you had the concrete cutting, cutting sub. Like there were a bunch of different.

[A]

We had a ton of dump truck subs on that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

There were a lot of dump trucks lined up that day. Yeah, yeah. I mean all that coordination. But that was probably one of the more successful jobs we've ever performed. And yes, we were the prime contractor, but we had so many people that had to come together and work together for. To pull it off. I mean, the constraints, like time constraints are just getting crazy as well.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So, like, coordinating all that and getting the job done on time is. It's just.

[B]

Well, and that's. This is what starts to confuse me too, with just the. And it doesn't confuse me. It's. It's ego. It's human beings. But like the fighting within a project.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's just so silly as well, because it's like, well, wait a minute. We're.

[A]

We're all trying to accomplish the same thing.

[B]

Isn't doing the project on time in everybody's best interest here? Yeah, but it goes back to, like, some of the basic lessons from extreme ownership. It's like, hey, if you're. If you're the prime, like, your job is to make life easier for your subs.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Not the other way. Like, your subs don't serve you. You serve the subs.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And. And the more you can do that, the more successful you can make them, the better they're gonna perform, the better.

[A]

Your project's gonna be. All gonna get along. It's communicating and planning on the front end.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The industry has come a long way in that as well.

[B]

It has.

[A]

I feel like we used to just, like, let every other, I don't know, contractor, utility, everything, like, kind of dictate how the project was gonna go. And it's like, oh, well, we can't go there next week because so and so is going to be there. LG line or yada, yada, yada, like, and we just like, let that be the excuse. And now. Or our subcontractor is not far enough along or whatever it is. But now you try to as best you can. Everything changes based on conditions. Is build a master schedule on the front end, communicate that throughout, and then adjust where you need. And just like you said, if everyone can just put their plan together on the front end, communicate successfully, you're not gonna have those arguments along the way. Like, we're all trying to get done by a certain date. We're all trying to make money. We're all trying to move on to the next job, deliver the best product for the customer.

[B]

I think. And I think a lot of that's been also driven by the more complex projects and then. And more sophisticated owners as well. Like, I actually think I have conflicting opinions about all the private money pouring into the industry right now, because I Think it's kind of like a drug. And it's like, I don't know how. How long this keeps up for. Maybe forever. I'm just a dummy. But.

[A]

Yeah. Which areas do you mean specifically? Like, the data center.

[B]

Data centers, Manufacturing. It's like. Like, I'm talking to a lot of business owners now. They're like, yeah, the market's slowing down. I'm like, it's not slowing down. It's just that the government's no longer spending trillions of dollars. Right, right, exactly.

[A]

No, you're exactly right.

[B]

Hey, like, hey, you're exactly right. Have we forgotten, like, what 2019 was.

[A]

Like, wait, wait, it wasn't that long ago.

[B]

Well, no, but it's like, everybody's just. Just. Yeah, yeah, it's just, you know, trillions of dollars of federal in state spending, like, that's just the. That's just how it is. It's like, no, it's not. No, it's not. But that aside, I was talking with a contractor the other day and they said they went. It was their first time working with a big technology company.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You know, there's only a few of them. Yeah, yeah, big technology company. And they said. We went in and, you know, we weren't sure what to expect because they hadn't worked with them before. And we thought, these are going to be, you know, tech guys. They're not going to know about construction, this and that. And he was like. We walked out of the meeting like, they know how to build this stuff.

[A]

Better than we do with all the resources they have. They're hiring experts that know what they're.

[B]

Doing, and then they apply this sophistication from their overall business as well to these projects. And I do think it's been good for construction as well, because it has forced civil contractors, especially in subs, to level up.

[A]

Oh, absolutely.

[B]

Because if you want to go build a data center, you've got to operate at that level.

[A]

It is absolutely made us a better organization tackling these ginormous jobs. Yeah, I will tell everybody that. I mean, going to work for the Turners and Walshes and like, these mega corporations, Gray from Lexington, building these giant projects that. That we've never seen before. It has made us so much better, like, not only from just job efficiency, but the safety, the planning, like, all the things you have to do to make a project successful. You can't just show up and start moving dirt on something like that. Like, I remember not that long ago, we'd get a job from a private client or Whatever. And we just send equipment out there and a foreman and they just start and they'd have like a piece of the plans and then like two or three weeks later we'd actually have like a pre construction meeting and someone roll the plans out on the hood of the truck. It wasn't even like a true pre construction meeting. Now it's like so much more sophisticated. We're having so many meetings on the front end in the office with all the stakeholders. This is the plan. This is where we need to be. This is where we're going to start. If this goes this way, then we'll have to pivot here. You're talking about all the what ifs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's transformed the way we build things. And I'm probably the least capable of even speaking to that in our organization. But it's so impressive. Like our pre bid meetings now are totally different because of the complexity of the jobs. Like, you can't just have one estimator put a bid together. Let's talk about markup for 5 minutes and send it out. Like, no, no, no, no. We need to get all heads together. Let's bring guys in from the field. Like, what are your production rates? Have you ever seen anything like this before? How would you tackle it? And now it's like, well, let's apply that to everything we do. And it's been a game changer for us. But working for those mega builders and just the standards they have as we've grown has been game changer.

[B]

And I think that's how it's been industry wide. I think it's been really. And it's brought in some, I'll use this term begrudgingly, innovation, I think within the space too. Like even something as simple as like lime stabilization.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

That was not standard, like not that long ago.

[A]

What an incredible tool.

[B]

And what an incredible tool like that that was, man. I mean, I could count on my hand how many times I'd seen it before 2020 or 2018. Like, as before, these big site projects with warehouses really started to ramp up. But then it just. The schedules are just so compressed. It's like we don't have time to wait for the, the soil to dry out.

[A]

We're using those companies every chance we get.

[B]

Now it's standard.

[A]

Every chance we get speeds things up.

[B]

Because it just speeds things up. It's like, well wait, we don't have to wait for everything to dry out.

[A]

Like, and it just gets wetter and wetter every year, it seems like. So something's Happening.

[B]

Yeah. But, yeah, we can just use lime or cement or something to exactly firm everything and then it turns it in.

[A]

Like, how much do you want to keep undercutting? I mean, I'll keep digging holes and putting rock back in before we could keep moving. Like, what? Yeah, it's been incredible.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. But just something as simple as that, like, that's now standard. It is standard even for, like, state projects and for road pro, like, I see everywhere now.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And stabilization contractors, like, let's go. Who do you guys use?

[A]

Mount Carmel. Yeah, Neil Ryan and his whole outfit over there. They're. They're outstanding.

[B]

Yeah, they've done real well.

[A]

They have.

[B]

They're laying it down.

[A]

I'm telling you. We try to put them on almost every project we have. Because, I mean, Kentucky, I can speak. We're having, like, the wettest year we've ever had. If it wasn't for cement stabilization, we're having probably one of the better years we've ever had. We'd be so behind the eight ball right now. And I would have to say that they're a huge part of that. Like.

[B]

Yeah, it is. And even it's a nice tool, too. We went out to a project in the Netherlands, and it was a dike reconstruction project. And it was just wet.

[A]

Oh, I'm sure. Like, Netherlands. Yeah.

[B]

Just a mess. But they. Everything. All their haul roads were steel plated, like giant steel plate. The biggest steel plates I've ever seen. The whole place. I mean, miles and miles and miles and miles of steel plates. And they just said, we ran the numbers.

[A]

This is what it takes.

[B]

And it's either we don't work or we put steel plates on everything and work. And it's like. I can't argue with that. Absolutely did the math. The money's there. Checks out like. Yeah, this is. This is brilliant.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, you see that here right now, it's not steel plates. I mean, because the cost factor is just exponential. But all these utility contractors that are putting up all the new power lines, basically. I don't know if it's happening here, but in Louisville, it's like every road right now trying to, like, crank up the power grid, but they have, like the railroad tie kind of. I don't even know what you call those.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

The crane put them all together. I mean, miles and miles and miles of them. So it's the same thing. It's trying to stay out of the mud and keep working.

[B]

Yeah, it's. The utility contractors love that stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What's what's the big stuff going on in Louisville? You. You have. Louisville is fascinating because you have UPS there, don't you?

[A]

Yeah, the US UPS World Port.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And then FedEx is Memphis.

[A]

FedEx is Memphis. Yeah. So our airport with UPS, there's always usually stuff going on out there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We helped build a new maintenance hangar a couple years ago, which was a big deal, which is kind of cool because now it's this towering building, and we help do all the grading and site work and utility work and paving and all that went into that. Yeah, you're definitely seeing an uptick in data centers. We got one of the major technology companies building a massive data center that we're working on working alongside Kokosing. So, I mean, another massive. Just civil construction company that we had never worked next to, but they weren't that far away up in Columbus, Ohio.

[B]

Yeah, they're right up the road.

[A]

But, yeah, working alongside them, I mean, you just learn so much stuff bidding against somebody like that. We lost the initial giant site package to them. But those projects are so massive that they need. We're digging, you know, trenches for the utility contractors, for the electrical contractors. We're moving dirt for a side. Another part of it that's not part of Coastings package. It's still become a massive job for us. And even with them on site, so it's been impressive. I think there's a few more of those in the works in our area. There's more of those in the works everywhere. Everywhere.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

And is that like a flash in the pan? Like, what happens when technology blows past that? Like, it seems like we're on this crazy trajectory?

[B]

Well, I. So I was. I was out with a contract. I was looking at this other company, and they said their plan over the next five to 10 years is build more data center capacity than exists currently. And it's like, what? Huh? Like, how? What? How.

[A]

And then all of it's infrastructure. So you can't have these data centers without the power grid. Well, our grid's not big enough where we live to even support them. So now we're talking about, like, multiple power plants and all of that for. So for the contractor, that's amazing. But, like, what does that mean for just taxpayers and, like, the general public and, like, all those things, that's the big question mark.

[B]

Because, you know, as much as I know about infrastructure, like, people don't understand how infrastructure works. And so it's like, I hear data centers. I'm like, all right, you need Power, water, fiber.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Where are those things coming from? And, and especially water and power. I know some states have just had to say, we can't do this anymore.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like no more data centers. We don't have the power, the power capacity.

[A]

No, exactly.

[B]

And if you look at the growth of power in the United States, it's been pretty flatlined for a very long, for decades. Like very consist very small growth in power consumption because while that, while the country has, has grown, we have become a lot more efficient and our power plants are just better nowadays, especially with gas turbine. It's just that has been one of. No one talks about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

One of the biggest transformations to the United States economy ever is the whole fracking thing. Gas thing, gas turbine.

[A]

No one ever hears how it's applied.

[B]

No, no, it's applied like, it's like.

[A]

Oh, there's this field in South Dakota where everybody drove to, to make a bunch of money.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But nobody knows.

[B]

No, it's only like, I don't know, made the whole United States economy boom since it started happening in the early 2000s.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And has been the sharpest decline in our emissions in United States history. But they don't want to talk about that.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

But, but you have this enormous now added demand that we just haven't seen as a country before from a power Absolutely standpoint. And you, you see what the people in Silicon Valley are saying, like, oh, we're just going to go, you know, small nuclear reactors. Like what? Like, huh. Exactly.

[A]

I thought we were doing nuclear. And that technology has come so far. Yeah, but nobody's talked about it in so long that it's just like the most terrifying word.

[B]

No, but, but, but, but then we've, we've tried it recently and it hasn't worked out. Like, look at South Carolina. I feel like, like Vogel's like $15 billion in.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And it's still not, not totally online yet. And it's like, all right, like, is this the best way to go? I don't know, but they're like, no, no, no. Bill Gates hasn't figured out we're just gonna put baby reactors everywhere. It's like, maybe, but I haven't seen it yet.

[A]

I think that's, I'll believe when I see almost like everything. It's like the bluff to get funding elsewhere. Right. Like that's what we're gonna take to Congress and we're going to say if you don't build US Power plants, then we'll just do our own private nuclear. But Nobody wants that to happen. Nobody wants backyard.

[B]

I'm not.

[A]

So then that's just their way of getting money allocated to what they need.

[B]

Sure, yeah. Well, it's working. And again, I'm just, I'm just a dummy, but I want to find somebody that totally understands the data center. Things like, oh, here's exactly what's happening. Because I know everybody, I've talked to a lot of people building them now and everybody's like, yeah, we're not sure how this all works, but like, it's great work. And I'm like, it is great work. This is phenomenal work.

[A]

We love building them, but exactly.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. We have no idea like what goes inside how this works. Not a clue. But it's phenomenal.

[A]

I mean, speaking to the one developer I, that I was, you know, speaking to who's trying to get some of these started because like, you know, the one we went to go work for was already approved. It was already, all those things already happened. Now talking to a guy who's like on the front end of it and is trying to like find the land and find the power and do all this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean the amount of information he's had to learn about the power grid and he's, I mean this is the same person who is building like 500,000 square foot box warehouses for UPS to like hold.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just all the goods that we ship around the world. Like that's not as what he's had to learn on the power grid side. And how that all works was incredible. I was like, man, you're, you're like an expert in this field now.

[B]

It was like the, the whole Amazon warehouse thing was like the warm up. What's going on now?

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Because this. And yeah, that's like, like an Amazon. A warehouse. Just a warehouse. It's pretty straightforward. It is, yeah, it's a, it's a, you know, you build a big pad. Yeah.

[A]

Tilt up some walls.

[B]

Tilt up some walls. Empty box.

[A]

Yeah, whatever you want. Part is all the conveyor belt systems and stuff on the inside.

[B]

Yeah, but that's their thing.

[A]

Yeah, that's their thing.

[B]

It doesn't.

[A]

Contractors point of view. It's just.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I mean it's, it's. You can kind of build them anywhere. Absolutely not. Super power hungry. This and that. But yeah, the data center thing, like even we were in Nevada, I was like, why are they building so many data centers here? I was like, well, two reasons. One, and this could be total nonsense. I have no idea. But they said for this Kind of stuff. It's important to be as close to Silicon Valley as possible without being in California because there's significant tax advantages to being in Nevada.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But Reno is as close to Silicon Valley as it gets without being in California. And they're saying because of the way the information travels, even that small of a delay sure can add up to a lot of money.

[A]

Oh, I'm sure.

[B]

So they want to build it really close. And then along this interstate corridor, there's a huge fiber line that our fiber infrastructure already exists.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So it's like. I guess that makes sense.

[A]

I still can't explain it.

[B]

Yeah, well. Yeah. And there's different ways to cool things.

[A]

Right.

[B]

As well. But I think what people also aren't saying is that without the data center stuff, without the manufacturing stuff going on right now, the site work industry would be hurting.

[A]

Oh, absolutely. Bad. The traditional areas that we always like, made our bread and butter on before, like multifamily and commercial building and commercial way down. Like.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, the warehouse stuff, like, just stopped. I mean, it was just like wild and then just stopped. Like somebody decided, hey, interest rates, this doesn't math anymore.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Park your money and it's just been done. And it's like, that was that. And like multifamily, like what you're saying are big residential, single family.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

That was like carrying the whole market. No one's even said anything because you have these.

[A]

Yeah. The interest rates and the. I mean, everything is a factor in that. But. But Louisville is a. We have a large shortage of homes, large shortage of apartments, and they're still not being built at the rate they need to be just because of the economic situation. So.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where would we be if we weren't doing these giant data centers and things like that? I mean.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The large scale infrastructure is a saving grace right now.

[B]

It's huge. Yeah. Oh, it's. It's. And. And then you still have all the federal dollars in public infrastructure. That's still. The industry's still chewing through, which has been a big deal as well.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't. I'm just. I'm like everybody else looking at the data center stuff like. Yeah, I don't. This is pretty cool though. Some of these projects are really sweet.

[A]

The AI that we all get to benefit from and play around with and gosh, that's a huge learning curve. But it's pretty neat.

[B]

It is.

[A]

When I hear, like, how much energy it takes for me to do a ChatGPT query is kind of crazy.

[B]

Oh, I saw somebody.

[A]

I don't know how accurate that all is, but I'm like, man, if we're burning that much energy for me to ask, like, who has the best french fries or something, what are we doing?

[B]

Somebody. You know how everybody like a month or two ago is making the little like action figures of themselves? Oh, there's this whole. There was this whole article somebody wrote on LinkedIn. Somebody that takes themselves very seriously.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

How we shouldn't be doing that. It's irresponsible because it's a waste of power. Yeah.

[A]

Try and convince everybody of that. Okay. So I can't play with this new shiny toy. Exactly.

[B]

I was, I was losing it. I was like, that's where we are. Everybody's making these fake action figures of themselves. They have this, the most powerful tool that's ever existed in humanity.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I need to make an action figure. Fake action figure myself. Yeah. And then somebody's like on the other.

[A]

Side of it being like high and mighty. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

It's too good anyway. Do you guys work in Indiana as well?

[A]

We do, yeah.

[B]

So that's another interesting thing about Louisville. It's river right there.

[A]

It is across the rivers. Indiana, right there. Yeah. You can basically. I mean, I can see it from my house.

[B]

And a lot of people live on the other side of the river.

[A]

A lot of people do. And a lot of the growth in our, like, area is happening across the river.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Growing up southern Indiana, like was very rural and not a whole lot going on and it has gone through this like renaissance. Actually the data center we're working on is right across the river in Indiana.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

In this development called River Ridge, which is just massive. It was an old, like, I'm going to get this. Not perfectly correct, but like ammunitions plant way back in the day that, I mean it was thousands of acres where they like manufactured and tested munitions for the army and has been nothing for like a super long time. And they finally got it redeveloped and like zoned correctly and now it's like million square foot warehouses, like all next to each other. This data center project, like 600 acres of data center buildings. I mean it's crazy. And it's right across the bridge from our office. Basically.

[B]

The Indian I. When people ask where things are hot, I'm always like, Arizona, Idaho, Utah, Tennessee, Carolinas, Florida, Texas.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Indiana. Yeah, Indiana. Why Indiana? It's like, well, it's like it's very cheap to live there and a lot of people from Illinois Right.

[A]

You have Chicago on the north.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I 65. That goes through the whole state.

[B]

Well. And they're just. They're taxing everybody to death in Illinois. So everybody's like. Like, it's way cheaper to live right next door. Same. Same climate, same vibe. Maybe people are gonna be upset. The Indiana people are like, no, we're not like Illinois. To me, it's pretty similar.

[A]

It's basically.

[B]

Yeah. But just way more affordable.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Tons of people have gone there.

[A]

Yeah. I think people would be shocked if you looked at how many, like, Fortune 500 companies are in Indianapolis, of all places. Yep. It's. It's booming Indiana. They also have. I mean, can't always say this. It seems like they've had some good government policy, and I think.

[B]

I think that's a lot of it.

[A]

They seem to have more funding there. Definitely. Far more funding than Kentucky's had.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's funny, though, that you mentioned that Indiana is right there. We. For the longest time, the Ohio river might as well been like the Great Wall of China for us. For whatever reason, they couldn't figure out how to compete over there. You know, there's a community in southern Indiana, and they've always been there, and they always work together. It's like, how do you crack that code? And finally, we have been able to a little bit. It's still. It's stiff. It's stiff everywhere. But, you know, we're one of the largest paving companies in Louisville, like, right there in, like, the Kentucky region. We could not figure out how to go pave in Indiana for the longest time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We have this, like, nationally renowned testing lab with, like, some of the best minds and, like, asphalt testing and everything. And we'd go to Indiana and we'd, like, fail all of our tests on our asphalt. So, like, how in the world. It's not that different, but it's just a learning curve. You just got to go and you got to do it. And I think we're finally at a place where we have confidence in it, but for the longest time, it was just, oh, there's enough on the Kentucky side. We won't even mess with it.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

The mentality, like, you just had to change everyone's thought process, but it's. It's a great market.

[B]

Well, it is, but it is funny how. Yeah. Just a river can separate you between a totally different market.

[A]

It is.

[B]

And just a different dot and different specifications. Absolutely.

[A]

Culturally, methods. All different. Culturally different. It's. It is. It's wild.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's But I. I love that about the construction industry and the United States. Like, I. I don't know. When I'm abroad especially, people are always asking how it. How it works and this and that. It's like, well, it's all kind of the same. But I go to a lot of states. I'm like, man, it's different here.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

This is just different. And. And especially, like, you could be building a road one. Like, it's always funny, too, when I'm driving to Louisville.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You. How. When you. When you go from one state to the next.

[A]

Yes. I noticed it today.

[B]

And maybe that's just.

[A]

The road looks completely different. I'm like, well, the aggregates didn't really change, right?

[B]

No.

[A]

The liquid asphalt's the same. Like, what.

[B]

No.

[A]

What happened here? It's different mix designs. It's like every. It's just. It's. They connect.

[B]

Like, why. Yeah, yeah, it is. But it cracks. It cracks me up. Like, it's so. Or like I was driving Arizona to California, and Arizona's asphalt, California's concrete.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's just like.

[A]

It's just a very funny how states are.

[B]

Abrupt change.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that is funny.

[B]

Yeah. And Louisville, there's companies there. UPS is there. Then having UPS there, that's a. Probably a huge boom to the economy.

[A]

It is. It is. And all the, like, peripheral companies that are there because UPS is there. And like, there's a ton of conveyor belt type companies because you got to create those systems for UPS and different things like that storage for all the, you know, boxes and everything that comes through the worldport. There's a whole. Yeah, definitely an entire economy that revolves around the UPS World port, which.

[B]

And it's like. I don't know if people. If you haven't been there, like, the Louisville airport's like, oh, it's very small. Yeah. It's this cute little airport over here.

[A]

I mean, there's almost never a line, I'm sure.

[B]

Yeah. But it's like this quaint little airport, and then you have, like, ups, and it's just the whole thing. Just big 747 cargo aircraft have their own runways. Like, just one after the next after the next after the next exact one.

[A]

It's Muhammad Ali International Aircraft Airport. But the only international flights are ups.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Because they're taking off from there and they're going all the way around the world.

[B]

All over the world.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I can get to Atlanta.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. The. Someone told me this could be total nonsense, but they said the Largest lobster distributor is. Is in Louisville.

[A]

It is. Yeah. And you can't do it anymore. But the coolest thing used to be when we were growing up is they had, like, all the saltwater baths or whatever. They kept them in there to keep them alive. You could go down there and buy them at, like, wholesale.

[B]

That would be phenomenal.

[A]

It was pretty cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Unfortunately, I don't think you can do that anymore. Yeah, it was awesome.

[B]

But that's.

[A]

If I go, you're getting, like, main prices in Louisville.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

That quickly went.

[B]

Of all places. But. But if I'm getting a lobster in Phoenix, like, it has to be overnighted. No. And it either goes through Memphis or Louisville. Yeah.

[A]

Our joke in Louisville is that we have, like. Like tremendous sushi because all the fish flies through Kentucky.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. That's stuff you don't think.

[A]

You don't think about it.

[B]

Yeah. And then you have the whole. I think Louisville is really fascinating, too, because there's the whole equestrian scene.

[A]

Equestrian. Right outside of our city is just rolling hills of horses going towards Lexington. Like, we do a lot of work in that area as well. I mean, lots of money. Incredible. Like, Middle Eastern princes coming in and owning these incredible farms and spending unbelievable amounts of money. It's very niche. Like, you don't find that anywhere else, but some of the most beautiful properties you'd ever see. I mean, with all the fence. I mean, the amount of money that's spent on fence in Kentucky would blow your mind. And then we have the bourbon industry, which is.

[B]

And then the bourbon industry.

[A]

Bourbon is huge. It's taken a little bit of a downturn here recently. It scaled up, like, in a massive way through Covid. Because I think that's, you know, the joke is, like, the liquor industry, it's good no matter what in good times and bad. But I think everyone scaled up so much because bourbon took off, like, globally. I think they overdid it a little bit. There's still quite a bit of spending going on, but for a minute there, it was like a gold rush to start a distillery. People were starting them, trading them. I mean, it was just really making multiples upon multiples on these.

[B]

Well, it was kind of like what happened with beer. Like, back in the day, you had the few brands, and that was it. You know, you'd. Amiser, Busch and Coors, so on and so forth.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And then all the microbreweries popped up and all the craft. The whole craft brewing thing.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And I feel like it was.

[A]

That's Bourbon and whiskey distilling has done.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it was the same thing.

[A]

And it's been really cool. I mean there are more bourbons than I could probably even like try in my lifetime. And when I was a kid there was probably like like six, you know what I mean? It was like Jack Daniels here from Tennessee. Maker's Mark is a huge brand, obviously Woodford Reserve and, and all those guys. And now there's just like thousands of little distilleries all over the place. And they're. The cool thing they're trying to do now is build out like the Bardstown Bourbon Trail, like tourism. There's nowhere to stay out there right now. And so they've been looking at California and the model behind wine and everything and saying, hey, if we're gonna have visitors, like so many people coming, let's build out this whole ecosystem.

[B]

Interesting. Yeah, yeah, it's. It always cracks me up when I'm halfway around the world and at the. There's always like a Woodford or something like that at the. Yeah. At the bar. And I'm like, man, that's just right up the road. I'm halfway around the world. Like it's, it's just amazing how, how far that like Kentucky will travel.

[A]

It really is.

[B]

Yeah, it's, it's. I feel like Kentucky's almost forgotten in a lot of ways by a lot of the country.

[A]

It is.

[B]

Maybe it's not a bad.

[A]

It's so central. It is kind of amazing. We have, I think it's three interstates that traverse in Louisville. So you have I 64, I 65 and I 71 that all come through there. So you have a ton of traffic coming through there. You have the UPS World port obviously at the airport.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think the big logistics thing that Kentucky sells is I'm gonna get this. Not perfect, but like within a 600 mile radius of Louisville. So like a eight hour drive is like 90% of the population in our country. It's like a crazy metric. I mean those are, those are going to be slightly off. I should have like chat. GBT'd it before I said that.

[B]

Yeah, I think it's like maybe 75%.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's a crazy metric. And so Kentucky is right there in the middle of it and we've definitely benefited from it, but I think we're still. We haven't experienced the boom like in Nashville, even in Indy.

[B]

It's not a bad thing.

[A]

It's not. I mean it's good and bad.

[B]

There's Pros and cons.

[A]

There are definitely pros and cons.

[B]

Yeah. It's. It is interesting though how fast some of the southern cities have changed.

[A]

It is very interesting. Like a Raleigh. It's happened so fast.

[B]

Way different. Raleigh, Nashville, Atlanta.

[A]

Charlotte.

[B]

Charlotte. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Birmingham.

[B]

Birmingham, Columbia, South Carolina. I mean, they just. Memphis has. Not Memphis, still Memphis, but Bowling Green.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, they're.

[A]

They're booming.

[B]

Yeah, booming. Totally booming.

[A]

Booming.

[B]

There was. That was that big project, that bridge replacement downtown. When did they replace.

[A]

Yeah, so they built two new bridges in downtown. Louisville was back in like 2016. Okay. So Walsh came in and built a new downtown crossing and then an east end crossing. There was never a bridge out on the east end. And so they had to dig a tunnel, which was very controversial. Under just like an old historic property that people went to battle for.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so it's like not a very long tunnel. And they built a brand new bridge that goes over to Indiana on the east end as well. Okay. Yeah. And so that was. They built them at the same time. I think that at the time it was like the largest infrastructure project in the United States as they were being built.

[B]

Because that's, it's. It's also pretty important. Like, a lot of people go back and forth, don't they?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, a lot of people from Indiana work in.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Louisville. Is that it?

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it's also because right there in downtown you have those three interstates converge. And so having. You have to have the capacity. It's such a bottleneck. Sure. So that was a big deal. We got to do the paving for the downtown portion of it. So we worked with Walsh and did all the approaches. We paved the bridge deck in Ross fault. That was a really cool project to be a part of. Yeah.

[B]

I think I've seen pictures of it.

[A]

It was. It was really neat.

[B]

It does look pretty cool.

[A]

It was cool.

[B]

Yeah. Because you're the local asphalt supplier, probably the predominant asphalt supplier.

[A]

Probably the largest. There are plenty. Yeah, there are plenty of other ones. Yeah. It is a competitive, rich environment, but we're probably the largest.

[B]

Yeah. How do you feel about, like the differences between family owned business materials company and the big companies?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I think, like, there's.

[B]

A lot of family businesses selling to the bigger companies right now.

[A]

There are, there are.

[B]

There's a lot of consolidation.

[A]

There is. Yeah.

[B]

So that has to be part of the conversation. Like, I just don't. I don't even.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's just. It's never been our intention to do that. And like right now we're in our own kind of like fun growth like moment.

[B]

It seems like you're really moving.

[A]

We're you know, being 75 years old. We're also kind of in like our own little renaissance ourselves, like generational change and all those things usually promote some like excitement and I think, think just what we're doing. We rebranded with you guys. We took a 75 year old company and totally created a whole new parent company to bring our brands underneath to identify as one. We had gotten pretty segmented and so like there's a lot of momentum behind that. And I think Louisville being that kind of like middle sized town, it's kind of kept some of the big players out permanently. Like they'll come in for large scale projects. Like Louisville's building a new VA hospital for our region. And so you have Turner doing that. We're working for them. You have the cacosing coming in for the big data project. But they don't, they're not coming and staying, knock on wood at this point. And so it allows us to like get a piece of those things but then kind of still be the local like family business. Right. And so having that just influence on our town, you know, providing for so many families, it's just a really neat thing. I think we take a lot of pride in that. So huge.

[B]

Yeah, it is. But I think that's one of the cooler things about the, the construction industry and the civil construction industry is you can still have a family business that is competitive against even the biggest companies.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

In the country.

[A]

Yeah. And I think that we've learned that over the last few years. It's like it's a very intimidating like that first bid against a mega, a mega guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then you're like, wait, we're here. Like we're ingrained. We got a pretty good cost structure. They got to bring everything in. Like we have really qualified people. The people don't look any different. Like that's sometimes what gets forgotten is like just because some giant international brand is coming in, if they get the job, they're going to want to hire our people. Like our people are just as good and a lot of times even better than some of their people. And so we're trading people we're developing them with from within. Like when you realize that you don't have to be at that scale but you can be just as good. Yeah, it's like a kind of a really incredible realization and it's a huge springboard for, like, where you can go. And that's what we're kind of in the middle of right now, I think.

[B]

Well, and I feel like at least this has been, for me as somebody earlier in my career, now getting a little further down the path is that you just realize that, like, even these big companies, like, they're all just people. Yeah, exactly.

[A]

No, exactly.

[B]

You almost get. Or at least I've been all the time as. As young as I've been. Younger. Like, you get caught up in the big names, big brands, and then you go into a meeting with them, you're like, it's just a guy.

[A]

Right? No, it's so intimidating at first, and then you're like. And you get. I'm, like, so jealous of what you get to do, but you get so much exposure to all of this. And you do get to just, like, walk in the door and ask questions and learn. And you're never competing against any of them. No, truly there to just be like, a spongebob. And that's like. I think that's kind of what we've tried to, like, the mindset we've tried to have is like, yes, we want to be a part of your project. Yes, we might not be as sophisticated, but here's what we're really good at. If you do something like that makes more sense than us. Like, we're not afraid to adapt, and, like, let's go do that. But all the people look the same, and to a degree, like, we're all, like, faking it as we go. Like, everything we do. Right. Like, we're. We're applying what we've learned to something we've never done before. So it's not perfect. We're all just trying to figure it out to some degree.

[B]

Yeah. So what's your favorite kind of work? Do you guys do? Do you have a favorite kind of work, or is it all the same to you?

[A]

It's definitely not all the same.

[B]

Well, I think, yeah. From an excitement, like, no satisfaction level.

[A]

You know what? It's funny because we are a very diversified business. Like, I probably geek out on the stuff I know the least about. Like, so the asphalt paving, I know the best because that's the part of the business I grew up in. And so, like, I could answer that question and say, I love paving. Just because it. Like, if you grew up in asphalt, like, the smell of it, just, like, being around it, it's so, like, rewarding to see what you accomplish every day. It's, like, so immediate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. But then there's parts of our business where we do like large scale wastewater treatment plants and pump stations and like large underground utilities. And I couldn't tell you like the first thing from a technical side of things, but the scale of it. And when we're flying drones over these like retention basins and different things we've built, I'm just like agitators and all these. It blows my mind.

[B]

It is my first time going around a wastewater treatment plant was with Garney in Virginia earlier this year. I had never like really gotten in. I kind of understood how they worked, but I'd never really gotten into the weeds of how wastewater treatment works.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they, they took us through the whole process. I'm like, this is like a giant science project. It is like, it's, it's not, it's really complicated, but not that complicated.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But the, but the infrastructure that it takes to make it happen is like.

[A]

Wow, this is, it's incredible.

[B]

Wild.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think it's just neat being in the business, like where we are diversified in the different things we can do. Like, I could like depending on the project, like, I could go geek out on like almost something different every day. Like the amount of like we're moving large scale Earth, like more at a larger scale than we've ever done before. So like going out and seeing like the setups that we have now compared to when I started, like, that's exciting. Flying the drones and like getting the information back from drones now that we can do, like, it's unbelievable. And so like, you put that all together and it's just we're trying to be better also at like the collaborative nature of all those businesses because for the longest time they all just worked completely separately. And so now giving everybody like the exposure to the different business segments and like thinking about bids together, like, let's bring in the estimator from the wastewater treatment portion for this highway job and like, what do you see that we don't see and vice versa. And like, that's been huge. So like sharing that knowledge, it's. It's priceless. So it's, it's fun. I, it's funny because I'm. I'm probably like the least technically minded person in our entire business. So I get to kind of just observe and ask like the obvious questions that sometimes get ignored. That's probably where I contribute in a bid review.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is like everybody gets so in the weeds because that's what they do every single day that I'm 50,000ft. Like, okay, this May seem basic to you, but, like, why did you start there? And, like, every once in a while, I'll stumble upon something most of the time, making sure that they've thought everything through from a risk standpoint.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it's. It all kind of boggles my mind, honestly. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, it's amazing. You could. Yeah. You could be resurfacing an interstate one night, you'd go see mass excavation, because you guys. You guys move through some dirt. We do.

[A]

Yeah, we do. It's. It's impressive.

[B]

Then go to a highly technical wastewater treatment plant the next day. It is pretty. And all. All within a pretty small radius.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Which is amazing.

[A]

And in our building, like, all those operations are on the same floor, so, I mean, they're sitting next to each other, like, hammering out jobs and managing. And, like, that was so intentional about when we did move is like, having a building where they could all be together, because we are also segmented before. And so, like, you can almost not help yourself, but overhear somebody else working through a problem.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's very intentional because we want everybody to work. Work through those issues together and have somebody that they can lean upon. It's just been really neat.

[B]

You. And you're at the point in your career. I mean, you've taken on a lot more responsibility, like, over the past five years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This would be year three is president, I guess. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So. So three years into, it's you and your uncle.

[A]

Yes, my uncle and I are business.

[B]

Partners now that really run.

[A]

Really run the business. So he's our CEO. I'm the president. My stepdad is chairman of our board, but he's basically retired, and I commend him for being able to, like, walk out the door and go enjoy life and check in for board meetings, because not everybody can do that.

[B]

No.

[A]

I still have a great uncle who, for instance, comes to the office almost every single day. He's 92 years old.

[B]

Really.

[A]

He hasn't been in the business in decades, but it's just, like, that's his identity. Right. And so I get to see both sides about. Like, there's an aspect of that that's really cool that, like, he's almost become a mascot.

[B]

It takes a lot of awareness.

[A]

It does take a lot of awareness. Yeah. And just an example that's right down the hall from you that says, okay, I don't want to do that to Hunter on his way up and with our team, and they've allowed me a lot of leeway to, like, kind of Put my spin on things. And I think that that's probably one of the biggest realizations I've had in the short stint in my position is you don't, like, ascend to that seat and have, like, a million ideas of, like, okay, when I get there, I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna do that. You're kind of like, well, how am I gonna put my fingerprint on this? And you kind of just like, stumble in to different things as you start seeing it from a different perspective.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because one day you go from having, like, deliverables every single day, and, like, okay, well, I know what I need to do when I walk in the door on Monday and I gotta check all these boxes to then now you're, like, seeing everything from a overview kind of standpoint.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so, like, the rebranding effort, breaking down the silos was, like, the biggest thing I realized on day one was, man, we have, like, four pretty incredible, like, business segments, but they don't work together at all. Like, what is that about? Sure. And, like, there'd been rumblings about that from different leaders in the building at a high level, but it was just. No one had really done anything about it before because it's the way we'd always been. And so that was my opportunity to come in and say, okay, there's been all these rumblings about this. Like, let's do something about it. And so I was able to do something about it, and I was given, luckily, like, the leeway from my uncle and stepdad to, like, run with it.

[B]

But it's a. I'm sure it's a delicate balance, though, because you don't want to come in. Like, we need to change things, because.

[A]

It is totally a delicate balance.

[B]

Because it's. It's. It's. I've run into us all the time. Like, this was the first few years of business for me. I was just beating my heads against the wall because it was like, hey, guys, we should do it this way. And they're like, well, I mean, we've been doing this a while, so that's awesome. But no, we're good. Like, the business is 75 years old.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So, like, there are, I'm sure, plenty of things that can be better, but I'm sure, like, it's like, well, we've tried that. Yeah. Like, you know, we tried that 33 years ago, and here's why.

[A]

You're right. But it's like, first of all, it's. We're in the people business, so no matter what level you're at, you always have to be thinking, how is it going to affect the people in the business? Namely, in our, like, world, you should always ask, like, how is this going to affect the field? First? Yeah, it's like, don't do anything that's going to disrupt the field just for the sake of disruption. Like, that makes no sense there. No one's going to come along with you. So you have to be very intentional about that. But then at a leadership level, too, like, you have to have your leadership team aligned. And if they're not aligned with you, like, I couldn't have done any of that if my leadership team wasn't, like, begging for it at that point. Point. And then once you have that momentum, you kind of weed out the folks that are like, no, I've been doing this for long enough. I don't want to change. And that's never your intention. And it's like one of those things that's always been said to me, like, when you inherit a team, you're gonna, like, you're always gonna lose people because, like, no one ever goes into that role thinking, oh, I'm gonna, you know, weed out all these people and change things and make it my own team. Like, that's never. But everyone you have, you think is great until you want to take it in a different direction. And you're like, oh, well, those people don't want to come along. Once we got full alignment and people were basically, like, asking for it, then it just became so much easier. Like, we want to work together. We see. We see how this is valuable. We see how it can make us better. Like, the collaborative nature of all this would take us to another level. It made it, like, exciting and fun. And so, like, now it's a totally different environment. So that's. That was. That was a huge, just opportunity for me. And like you said, it's also. You kind of just stumble into opportunity as well. So here we were as, like, I guess you could consider us a historical company established at that point how much change can really take place. Well, we didn't have a project management system. We didn't have an estimating system. We were kind of just going by, like, we had really talented people that had built their own processes and procedures, and they were. That every estimator had their Excel sheet they worked on, and they had their vendor base and they had their subcontractor base. And like, it was not united at all. And so, like, yes, you had incredibly talented people and it worked like how many efficiencies were you leaving on the table?

[B]

Well, and even if it's completely efficient, it can't. That can't transition to the next generation.

[A]

Exactly. You can't pass that knowledge on. Like, it's lost.

[B]

It's. It's. You exactly have to systematize it at some point.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And that's. And I think that's especially like that just intergenerational change. It's like, great. You've gotten away with this. This is the most perfect spreadsheet imaginable. And you've built all this great work from this spreadsheet. But you're the only person that will ever know how the spreadsheet works.

[A]

You're exactly right.

[B]

So it could be totally right for you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it just does.

[A]

And it works for decades and it works successful and.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's not wrong. No. And it's nothing against them.

[B]

Like, no.

[A]

The last thing you want anybody to feel is like, oh, no, you've been doing it wrong. No, they've been doing it right. We just never gave them the tools to do it any differently. Like, and that was a huge. Like, when that dawned on us as well, it was like, oh, man, we could. We could all be working in the same system and like, it all just by happenstance. Now. It's also like, the data side of it and AI like building that data pool. Like, there's so much data that's collected in construction from estimate to production in the field and how that all comes together. And so we were leaving so much of that information just in people's heads.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And that's still just someone's like, like, best guess on, like, how did it go? Because when the estimator handed the bid to Operations, that estimator was never hearing how the job went later other than from a cost value standpoint. Right.

[B]

Y.

[A]

And so now having that, like, estimating system that communicates with your project management system, that's been a big change we were able to do as a team. No, actually we use Innate. That was developed by Kiewit. So Innate's our project management and estimating system on the. The Louisville paving construction side.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

And then on the PACE side, the wastewater treatment plants and everything, we use Procore.

[B]

Oh, interesting. Yeah.

[A]

We actually. We may get to one system at some point, but it was. They were different enough.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I guess it's an example of, like, give people what they want to some degree. Like, you don't need to pull everybody along kicking and screaming to, like, one destination like, there was a lot of value that Procore could provide. Pace. That was. And their business is different enough from Louisville Pavings. Like, I don't need to force everybody. Like, but that's what I want is, like, I want you on a system.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I want to get you there. So, like, I want you to feel like you won and you're excited about it, and let's just go, like, let's just start collecting the data. Let's. Let's get unified and let's learn from the work we're doing more so than we were.

[B]

It's It. And that's. That's all. That's an interesting point, too, because sometimes, like, you do have to get everybody on the same system, and that's just. It's just how it is. Like, Right. Receipts, for example.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's the stupidest thing in the world, but, like, getting everybody on the same receipt tracking system.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Accounting system.

[A]

So HR system.

[B]

That's really important. And not everybody's going to be happy. There's not going to be one system that's going to be definitively better. I found for everybody, very rare, very rarely.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's usually like a Ford versus Chevy versus Ram.

[A]

Like, just make a. Just pick one.

[B]

Yeah. They're all pickup trucks.

[A]

They're all.

[B]

They're all great. It's kind of personal preference. Some people are going to be happy with this one. Other people aren't.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

But then there's other times where it's like, all right, is it. Is it going to make or break things to force everybody onto this just so we have the same thing across the board, or is this an opportunity to be like, well, what would you want?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, what works best for you?

[A]

What truly applies to your area?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And look, if it would have been like one half dozen or the other, I would have preferred naturally, to have everybody on one system. But you want to give people wins along the way, too. Like, you're asking them to make a big change.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And more so than anything, it's a behavioral change. And so, like, I want to them to be the ones leading it. Like, I don't want it if I can avoid it. Like, as a lead, you don't want to force things.

[B]

No, we. We didn't end up doing this because of cost. Ultimately, we. We thought it was going to be cost advantageous. It wasn't. But we told everybody we were committed to it.

[A]

We were going to go from Google.

[B]

To Microsoft, and it was like somebody died. I mean.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It was. It was There were a lot of people that were not excited.

[A]

When you're in that ecosystem, it's a big change. I mean. Yeah.

[B]

And I was one of them.

[A]

I was like, wait, why are we doing this?

[B]

But it's so, it's so funny how personal it is. Like, people get comfy and cozy in their systems, processes, even, like machines, pickup trucks. Like, it's all like that. Yeah. When you start to change things, like, hey, hey, yeah. No, I don't. I do not want to do something.

[A]

I'm not insulting. The incredible Excel sheet that you've built.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And made better for a decade. Like, it's incredible. Like, if I had a shrine I could, like, put up on the wall, I would. Because you should be very proud of this. But this is just taking it to another level. Like, and like you said, it's so that the knowledge can be passed on. That's a bigger. Can't just live in your environment. That's just. We can't do that anymore.

[B]

That's the bigger thing. And that was like me with, you know, Google Drive and how I have it set up. It works great for me.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But it doesn't work for anybody else and it's frustrating for everybody else. It's like, okay, I see. Like, do I want to keep it? Yes. But this is best for everybody.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm going to go in this direction. I'm going to figure out how to make myself excited because I'm one of the leaders here. I'm not bought in. Nobody gets bought in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it took me a while, but I finally got to that point. And then it was like, oh, it cost too much money. We found out, so we're not going to do it anymore.

[A]

I was like, it's a huge relief to everybody, including yourself.

[B]

Oh. It was a audible side, really. Like, oh, thank goodness.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. The systems and process thing, I think is more important than ever. And it's just, even if your business wasn't transitioning from a generational standpoint, like just the way you've grown.

[A]

Yeah. It's scalability. You can't do it. Yeah. There's no other way.

[B]

No. Like you said, innate Keywit. Like, Keywit is probably the best systems based contractor, period.

[A]

I mean, when you're that size and you can create your own.

[B]

Yeah, but they, I mean, but yeah, they've built their own software. It's like they're. And it's just so dialed in. And that's. But that's why they are why they are. It's like, here's the operating system. Use it. It works great. If you don't want to use it, you don't have a place here.

[A]

Like, this is how we roll.

[B]

Yeah. We've been doing it this way for.

[A]

A long time, but unfortunately, and fortunately, as you grow, you can't. You need that system in place for the next person. You can't train every single person up to do it their own way. Like, there's just not. No, it's impossible.

[B]

Well, and. And you. You now need it. Going back to the initial conversation to work with the bigger GCs. Yes. The bigger customers, all of it private, even DOTs, state organizations now.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Are to throw them a bone. They're getting more sophisticated. They really are. Absolutely. I think there's a lot to be desired in some places, but I think they really are changing some DMT's, ticketing.

[A]

And all that stuff. It's a good thing. I mean, transparency is not a bad thing. No, no, no.

[B]

How's it been in that transition period? You do have a lot of young leaders. I feel like we do.

[A]

Yeah, we've been really good about that.

[B]

It is a pretty. Yeah, you do have a younger Ben.

[A]

Yeah, we've, we've. Like I said earlier, we've been very intentional. And I have to give the generation ahead of me, like, that's what they instilled in us is they were very intentional about making sure we were all empowered to take the next step. My stepdad's always said, like, when you're going up the ladder, always, like, pull the guy up behind you. Like, we're not going to promote somebody unless they've established the person behind them. And that's become like a core culture. Like. Yeah, that's part of who we are. And so I've been very lucky to have incredible leaders to look up to. And then like I said earlier, Kevin, our coo, who like mentored kind of my generation of leaders, like, that's kept people around and he's put his fingerprint on all of us and we've been able to come up together. And so that's been really neat as well. And so we're, we're very well set up for the next 20, 30 years, which is probably not the case in most construction companies. I think it's super unique, but it's been very intentional. It wasn't just like something that we got lucky and happened out of nowhere. Yeah, we've been very intentional about promotion from within, developing people, and just that's what we're going to do you almost.

[B]

Have this like, new class taking over? In a way?

[A]

It is, yeah, it's very much so. Yeah, very much so. I mean, and I guess the, the. We have a couple. Our coo, Kevin will retire in two or three years. Our cpo, Chief People Officer is going to retire the end of next year.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then the rest of us are basically all the same age. We're all late 30s, early 40s.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So it's exciting. And I think you hear a lot about like, the aging demographic construction and it's, it's definitely real, but I feel like we have like so many young, talented people. Like talented young people. Like this wave of talented young people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think, I mean, you guys are on the front end of it with the training programs and everything. It's, it used to always be we have to recruit all these young people from farming communities and that has to be their background. They have to have this like, field working mentality. I've been on a tractor before and that's. Now I know how to operate equipment. Well, like, like those people don't really exist a whole lot anymore, but the technology is kind of like been the new like, pathway. Like all these kids grew up with technology. They all love it. It's part of their lives. And equipment and operating all that stuff is just like an extension of that. So why not harness it that way?

[B]

Yeah, it's. I, I feel like people, they almost like romanticize the farm kid thing and, and, and, and I get it.

[A]

Like, it's real. When you can find them, it's. It's real.

[B]

Yeah, but you can't. They don't exist anymore. No, it's just not a thing. Like, it's just, just mathematically not a thing. Just the way farming's gone. Like, farming is more important than ever before. I'm not, no, I'm not saying farming's not a big deal, but just.

[A]

But how many people different than it did two generations ago?

[B]

Yeah, but that's, that's been, that's been the same. Like, that's been consistent with human history. Like, we're sitting here being upset about, about evolution. That's happened for 10,000 years. Years.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But yeah, there's like this, this romanticism to it, but it's just, it's just not realistic. But that. I feel like I went to lunch with you guys. It was a while back now, but it was like a lot of people there. Everybody was young. Yeah, it was a young, like a very young crowd. I was like, wow, this is this is pretty cool. I mean, it's. Sure it's working out for them.

[A]

Well, I mean, you try to be an intent. You try to be as intentional about that as you. You can, but obviously you can't just, like, snap your fingers and like, oh, we're just a young workplace.

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

But it's a culture thing. Like, you want to be able to, you want to be the, like, preferred employer. And that it does just, it attracts those people. And if you, like, have that mentality of, like, okay, it's all, it's going to be all about our people. It's going to be, like, pretty progressive. Like, we're going to try new technologies. We're not going to be afraid to, like, stub our toe by implementing something new. Like, we don't need to be the first, like, first mover on everything, but, like, what's going on out there? Like, let's test this, let's test that. Like, yeah, that's what young people want to be a part of. I think that's who we're trying to be. And, like, definitely wasn't always who we were.

[B]

But I also think that's a great way to attract a younger workforce.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Younger leadership, which I, I'm not saying all the old guys have to go. Like, I, I, but, but, but if there's younger people in charge at the company. Like, if I go to the About Us page and it's, there's a lot of them in the industry, especially the more, bigger, more established companies. Like, bunch of old white guys, white hair, suits in, like, some, like, very dressed up.

[A]

Yeah. Because they wear suits to work.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. But it's like, yeah, like a school photo shoot. It's like, wow, this is. And not like, that's fine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But me as a young person, I'm looking at them like, I'm not that.

[A]

How many tears do I have to work through before I have an opportunity?

[B]

Man, I only have to do 33.

[A]

Years before I can maybe get there one day. No, you're exactly right. When you have young leaders on your team, it shows, like, opportunity can happen quickly.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And that's a huge thing. And I think we've really, really tried to get away from the. You have to buy your time. Like, that is a ridiculous statement. Like, if you're talented and you're good and like, namely, like, being a leader is about leading people. It's not about, like, I worked on this shovel and then I operated this piece of equipment and then I made like, no, no. Like, you need to know enough. Like, by all means. We're not going to, like, promote anybody that's not. Doesn't have the skill set and the knowledge base. Base. But if you're a skillful leader and you can lead and motivate people, like, you can kind of learn the other things. Sure. Being a people leader is totally different.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Than having, like, the knowledge technical skill set. I'm. I. I am like, maybe the ultimate example of that. Like, you do not want my advice on how something's built.

[B]

But. But.

[A]

But, like, you need to be that person.

[B]

Yeah. You don't need to be that person.

[A]

That was, like, one of the biggest realizations for me in my professional career was I told you, like, earlier, I said, like, like, I thought I needed to be an expert in a field. I needed to go get, like, that professional degree. I eventually went back and got an mba, but that's once I figured out, like, I just needed to know how to, like, lead people and, like, kind of point in the direction. Right. And empower people to do what they're good at. Like, I don't want to micromanage anybody. No.

[B]

But it's a really. It's a. It's. It's. It's such a powerful real. I mean, I was talking with somebody who's 24 yesterday, and I was just like, you know, what would your best piece of advice be? I'm like, I don't know what we were talking about, but I was like, don't act like you know what you're talking about. You're 24.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You don't know shit.

[A]

No.

[B]

And you don't have to know shit. Like, that's the coolest thing about it. You can just say, I don't know, or like comments on YouTube especially like, wow, this. This fucking guy doesn't. Always talking about, like, yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's the whole. Well, you're missing the whole point. Yeah. The whole point is that I don't know how this stuff works. So I'm gonna go find people that do know how it works that are doing it, and I'm gonna talk to them and I'm gonna show them how they're doing it.

[A]

Yeah. Don't ever want to be. Also, if you want to be a leader, don't ever stop being a learner.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you never know everything. And what you're doing now is probably not gonna be the best method of doing it, like, five years from now.

[B]

No, but. But I mean, you can probably twist. Attest this to the most accomplished best Performers that I've met in the industry, no matter what position they're in, whether they're CEO or operator or truck driver.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

They're the most curious.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And they're the most. They're all. They'll make fun of themselves. They're. They're very rarely just taking themselves super seriously. And they'll always say how little they know. And it's like, all right. That if they're saying how little they know and they're an older guy, I'm like, that guy probably. He's probably playing dumb. Like, I bet.

[A]

I bet it's a true humbleness.

[B]

Like, you need.

[A]

You need to be humble. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[B]

But anybody playing dumb, like, all right, you know what's. And there's. There's a lot of those guys that I have a ton of respect for. Like, and I'll have to tell people, like, he. He plays dumb, but, like, don't let him fool you.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

He's probably one of the best Earth movers in the entire United States, that.

[A]

Guy, whoever he is. Right. They don't need the spotlight. No good. They don't need to tell you.

[B]

No, no, no, no. But they've been like, the industry and the work has humbled them too. And they're smart enough to understand. Like, listen, no matter how many times I've done something, every project is different. Every crew's different. Every set of conditions is different. Every project, everything we do is different. And if I'm coming in thinking, oh, well, here's the best way to do it, I might.

[A]

I'm probably gonna get my only Seeing it one way.

[B]

Yeah, that's.

[A]

Yeah, that's a trap.

[B]

It is a trap.

[A]

Total trap.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I totally agree with you.

[B]

Fortunately, in civil, there's not that many. I don't think you can really survive in this world with that mentality. I mean, not that much.

[A]

Everything looks different, right? Like, it's all different. There's a different approach to everything thing. And we've all been around the guy who is emphatic that this is the only way something can be built.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're never right.

[B]

No.

[A]

It doesn't mean that. The way they want to build it is wrong. And, like, look, go that course, you'll probably be fine. Like, but the second you stop looking at it from different perspectives, it's a dangerous path. Well, and.

[B]

And they. And it might be perfectly right, but perfectly wrong. Like, the example I used the other day was, like, people, if I post earthmoving in Florida, they're Almost always top loading articulate trucks.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And every dum dum on the Internet, they have to go prove that. Top loading, stupid. Why are you doing that? So much more efficient if they're on a bench. This and this and that's like, wow, very good. Like, you pat them on the head like you're so smart.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But it's like, like, listen, dum dum.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's something called groundwater in Florida.

[A]

And so situational awareness would tell you.

[B]

Yeah, right. Yeah. If you, if you put the truck in the bottom, it gets stuck. So that's why it's up top. Like, do you think they hadn't figured, like, they hadn't thought that one through? They hadn't asked that question.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But that, it's just like, that's one of the, that's like a, it's, it's just people cannot help themselves when they see top loading a truck.

[A]

That is a lesson that my uncle taught me very young. So I. All this, like, these people with experience do teach you, like, so many incredible things and like, I'm so lucky to have, like, these mentors. But this is very simple. But being right is overrated.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Anytime you feel like you have to, like, justify, like, why you're right and win an argument and everything like that, then you're going down the wrong path. Like, have your say, move on.

[B]

I think of the meme, like the guy on the couch, like, sleeping on the couch. Like, I won the argument. Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Like, look where you are. That's great.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yes. Yeah. Yes. You won.

[A]

Had a few of those folks. Yeah. I've, you know what? At home, I'm not as good at the lessons maybe as I am at work. So I get that the couch example probably resonates with, with everyone, including myself.

[B]

Yeah. I, I, Yeah. As hard as this industry is, I don't think any man would say that it's easier than at home.

[A]

And if you could apply all those practices, I mean, honestly, some of like, the best leadership stuff I learn and like vistage or whatever it is that I'm a part of.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you apply it at home first, like, that's almost every example I hear. I'm like, okay, well, maybe that would work at work. But that would definitely working. And if you can kind of use those two, it's a, it's a, It's a good juxtaposition sometimes. Yeah.

[B]

It's so, I think it's so special. Yeah. That, that relationship, father, son, working together, especially in the same place, like Just.

[A]

How unique is how many other industries does that really exist, really?

[B]

I mean, it's nowhere. No, but, but, but, like, not to speak too much about, like, human evolution, but that, that was kind of how it happened for a very long time. And now you oftentimes don't even live in the same place that your parents are.

[A]

Like, I don't.

[B]

My parents are across the United States and. But. But I. You don't see it all the time, but you see it enough. Like, I've got enough photos now of. Or husband and wife or, you know, anybody, family, anybody related out in the field.

[A]

It's a neat part of our industry, the family dynamic and generations working at the same place and people that meet there and get married and then have kids that come work. We've had all that. It's so cool.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I. I do it too, because it's like, I know their family's gonna want this photograph, and maybe this photograph doesn't matter today, but this photograph will matter at some point.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And this will be one of the most. And I'm not talking up myself. I'm just like, they probably don't have a photograph of them together.

[A]

Generations of working there. Like, yeah, our generation is obviously so much better at the photography thing, maybe to, like, a crazy extent. Like, we take pictures of everything.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But the value of, like, you taking the picture of the father and son on the job site, no one's probably ever done that for them.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Think about that. They have the memories, and they get to go home and talk to their family about it and, like, the mom and wife, like, how pride, how proud that would make them, just to see it. Like, they know it exists, but to be able to, like, put it on the wall.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

That's huge.

[B]

Yeah, that's. And that's exactly why I do it, because I know how much that photograph means.

[A]

You know what? That actually, like, inspires me. Like, we always do, like, the photos for, like, branding and, like, dressing up our own office or something, but how often are we doing that and, like, giving it back to people? That's something I think we should do.

[B]

And that's where, like, the marketing stuff has always been a struggle, because I know how important it is. Everybody knows how important it is. But this world really struggles to spend money. And I get it. Like, I understand. To spend money on stuff they can't see. No, I can buy equipment. I can see it. I buy diesel fuel. I see it like, I, I, you know, concrete. I see it like they deal In a very physical world, you're always dealing in stuff that you can see. And that's, I think, why the industry struggles with people.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because it's squishy. Right. See it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But like, some of my favorite comments that I, that I, that I've seen on our stuff is, is always when somebody's saying, that's my dad, that's my mom.

[A]

Like, it's huge. They've never seen them at work before.

[B]

And, and yeah. And like, what does that do for pride and retention? Like over the moon or I've had even like very senior executives be like, I've never been able to show my family what I really do until now.

[A]

And it's like, man, I mean, that.

[B]

Is amazing because you can't, you can't take people on job sites anymore.

[A]

No.

[B]

Like, data center project. You can't be like, hey, we're not.

[A]

Even allowed to share photos.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Projects we work on. One.

[B]

Yeah. But two, it's like, hey, can we have like a family day?

[A]

Yeah, we just like, yeah, yeah. No, no, let's call our lawyers.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But.

[B]

But like the. And again, going back to how things have changed so quickly, like the previous generation, you could just go to job sites.

[A]

Right?

[B]

You could just go to work with your dad. You could just grow up on a job site.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So many people in the previous generation were on job sites as kids. Right.

[A]

And forgotten by necessity.

[B]

By necessity.

[A]

Somebody needs to watch the kid today.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then, and then while they're there, give them a hammer, Give them a shovel.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

What?

[A]

I'm just curious.

[B]

Grease gun.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Let him help out. Because 1. It's nice to have a second, second set of hands to like, the kid wants to. The kid thinks it's fun most of the time.

[A]

No, exactly.

[B]

Or temporary when they're beginning.

[A]

Yeah. It's just supervision. Let him work a little bit. Yeah, but I know where he is.

[B]

But within like just a few decades, that's out of the question. Like, nope. 0. 18 years old. That's it. And then we're like, well, why don't, why don't 18 year olds know how to do anything? Well, so I know. Well, they haven't been working on the family car at home because the family car, it's so complicated now. You can't work on it too. It's just like they're, they're in the suburbs and so they're. They're there just aren't there aren't those opportunities.

[A]

Exactly. Right. Yeah, that's. I was lucky to be a 15 year old that was able to do that in the summertime, which is. That was so uncommon, like, to be able to. And now I don't even know if it was legal. I guess it probably was. I was on the payroll. But, yeah, it wasn't that long ago.

[B]

No, like, yeah, but to that point.

[A]

I mean, it, I guess segueing to like, kind of how we connected and the telling, the story aspect is like, we have been so lousy at telling the story of, like, what we do and why we do it. Like, those photos are like, like a microcosm of, like, the why and like, showing, like, what it means to people. But as an industry, like our company, we were. If you asked me like five years ago, like, what do you guys do? It would have been like the most fumbled, like, statement of all time. I would have had no idea how to explain what or why we do it. And so when we went through our rebranding and all of those things, it was. It was the exploration of, like, why and like, how do we tell this story better? Like, everything we do, we improve. Like, everything we touch, we get to make better. And like, that whole exercise of every day, when our teams, like, touch a job, at the end of the day, they've improved it somehow. Every job they build, they've improved the world. Like, they get water to people's homes, they make roads safer, they provide infrastructure that is people's schools, where they shop. It's all those things. Like, I was just in a meeting on Friday and Pat Nelson, who's like the chairman of Napa right now, he was there and gave us a speech to our state asphalt association.

[B]

Lehman Roberts.

[A]

Yeah, they're owned by Granite. But he talked about how in Memphis, like, part of their story was at some point in time, they've paved, like, every road. And I'm like, well, that's our story too, in Louisville. And how many people every single day? He was like, throughout the stat of like 1.8 million people drive on their roads every single day to get wherever they're going. I'm like, that's our story too. And how many contractors are there around the country in the world that connect people to their lives? Like, that was our kind of like, statement for. For forever as we connect people to their lives. And there's not, there's no truer statement in our industry than, like, we make all those connections happen.

[B]

I mean, there's probably not a single person in Louisville that. That you haven't impacted in some way.

[A]

That's Right. And like, how for seven decades, did we ever even talk about that?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Probably not really.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So now, like, giving people just that concept to go home with. And from, like, a marketing standpoint, like, for the next generation of people coming. It's like our generation feels this way a little bit. The next generation, like, really needs a purpose. Yeah. Like, what's our purpose? Like, man, we have, like, one of the coolest stories to tell of anybody I know. That's what you're all over. And I'm kind of just, like, repeating what build. It's all about. But it's. There's no truer words than that for our industry.

[B]

Well, and that was what was so fun when we did it, like, the whole branding thing, because we weren't coming in and manufacturing anything. It's like, you're. I mean, this is a really stupid analogy, but you're like an archeologist. Like, so you come in with, like, your shovel and, like, your little brushes and stuff, and you're just like.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

You're just there to uncover what's already there. Like, it's already there. You're not. You're not making. Making it up.

[A]

No, you're not.

[B]

You're not. You're just, like, building the story with what exists. And that's. Everybody's always been, like, given me. And a lot of what we've done. I feel like, too much credit because it's like. Well, it's. It's already a great story. Like, it's not even that hard. Yeah.

[A]

But aren't, like, the most. Like, almost all inventions are just, like, a new way of. Like, it's just, like, the easiest. Like, you didn't have to recreate anything. It was always there. You just made it, like, better. You just told the story better. And, like, we should all be telling the same story. Like, that's not unique to me. It's not unique to Lehman Roberts. It's not unique to anybody in our industry. But for all of us to unite, kind of like, that's what this whole industry is about. That moves the needle. That's a big deal.

[B]

And it's what has to happen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's where. And this is. This is just where I start to lose patience with some of the older folks that can't quite get that. And. Or it's like, I'm fine with them doing what they've always done. Who the hell am I? I'm 30 years old. I don't know what the hell's going on, but, like, just don't get in the way?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like when they're in the way, that's when I start to really, that's when I start to get upset because it's like, listen, bud, you've had a great career. You've built a lot of stuff. You've made a ton of money. You have so much money, you're good to go.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Just get the fuck out of the way. Like, like this is, this is a lot bigger than you. And, and we have got to get on.

[A]

And like you said, we're not, it's not, it's not changing anything. It's just telling the story. No, it's like fundamentally nothing's changed. Like, no, you're building the same project.

[B]

And, and, and, and it's just like, I, I get it, you're proud, but you are building like, you're building to Kentucky DOT specifications.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You're building the same road that everybody else in Kentucky's building.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because you legally have to.

[A]

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah. I'm not trademarking that road.

[B]

You're not putting your name on it. Yeah. Like it's, it's, no, it's just a Kentucky dot spec.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

But, but what I've also understood, and it's starting to happen, which is really exciting, is I've always kind of ingest, been like, listen, I have more time than these older people do. I just have to wait. And even the other day I was talking with somebody, I was like, yeah, we tried to get out there, but, you know, so and so in charge was just not having it. And they were like, well, they actually retired not too long ago. I was like, oh, fantastic to take another sleep. Let's try it again. Like, how good is this?

[A]

But like, it's so short sighted too, because what do they think? That there's not somebody else right down the road that's doing the same thing they're doing and now they get the exposure and their stories getting told and.

[B]

Their brands and they think it's top secret because they're not on the Internet. But I'm like, oh, no.

[A]

Like, I, Is that a good thing?

[B]

Let me. You haven't heard of the Internet?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Let me, let me show you how this works. Like, it's, it's wild. But like, everybody knows everything.

[A]

I mean, we used to have some leaders in our organization. It was like, you would have thought my request that like, can we put some branding on our job sites? Like, maybe the job trailer should have our like, logo on.

[B]

Yeah. But that was, that's been blasphemy. For a long time.

[A]

Oh my gosh. Or like the silt fence could have our logo or whatever.

[B]

Or pick up.

[A]

It was like, well, why would we want to do that? Then people will know who to call to complain to. I'm like, that is like a broken mentality. Like, or you could take pride in what you do and be proud of it. And like, man, it's just. And when you push that ethos down to other people, like, how negative is that throughout your organization? Instead of like, oh, I'm not afraid of like the two people are going to complain. What about all the people that think what we're doing is great?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Or like all the people that are like discovering our company from a potential.

[B]

Like, workforce or like, or it's an opportunity to engage with somebody. Yes. Like, listen, wait, wait, wait. I forgot. Our customer is the person using the damp, like living here.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, this is who we. I feel like people forget that too.

[A]

That's who's cleaning the reservoir where our water comes from.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, wow. They're local. That's actually a cool story.

[B]

Yeah. But like, it's like that's an opportunity to engage with the end user. And yes. There are people, like everybody in construction has been around these people that are terrible to deal with.

[A]

Sure. There are people in society that just are not happy.

[B]

Yeah. And yeah. And they. And they have nothing better.

[A]

Let's not build a strategy around, but.

[B]

Just be a thorn in your side.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

But there really aren't that many of those people. And a lot of times it's just somebody that's one. They might like. Their frustration might be legitimate.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Like one, your trucks might be too dirty.

[A]

Right. Or your.

[B]

Yeah. Like, like your. Your trackout might bite. Might be a mess off this project and it might be breaking when windows.

[A]

Isn't that an opportunity for us to raise the bar? Like, let's just be better.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Let's give people less to complain about instead of being afraid they're gonna complain.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That was. It was. Yeah. I fought that battle.

[B]

But that, but that. I mean, all the time. But again, you have this class of contractors that's coming up now. Like, I think it's two categories. It's the Louisville paving that, hey, we've been around 75 years, but sure, we want to keep raising the bar.

[A]

How are we here for another 75?

[B]

Yeah. And then there's the contractors that have been around eight years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Some 30 something year old guys started it. That. Yeah. I just is like growing like a weed. Yeah. Because they're just. They don't know any better.

[A]

Well, if there wasn't the this is how he's always done it. This is how we've always done it conversation.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Then we just get to start fresh.

[B]

They're unencumbered.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. And they're. And I mean, and they're starting to chip away. Like they're starting to eat market share.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And I think it's those two. And then you're always going to have the big incumbents that, you know, the typical big, big players. But I don't even know if their model is safe and sound because if they can't figure out the people thing, I don't. I mean, great. Like, you have how many asphalt plants? Good for you.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But if you can't find people to run your asphalt plants, what's an asphalt.

[A]

Plant feel like they're part of the organization they work for at some point? Like, that is, I mean, the battle of growth too is like still feeling like a family business.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Still feeling like we, we kind of use the terminology. Like, do we want to be a small, big business or a big small business? It was kind of like, because we have this growth trajectory and we want to keep growing. Like, I think growing is another way of just like we want to keep evolving. Like, everyone gets hyper focused on the, the revenue line or whatever. It's like, yes, that needs to happen. Like, none of us want to make less. None of us want to like take a step backwards. So like, growth is necessary to a degree. But also like the growth mindset is about just being better too. It's not always about like top level line growth. Yeah. And so how do you do that? But also like, have the same touch with your people. Like, still have the same family mentality. Still think of people first and like, yeah, those like mega companies. Like, how. Who do I connect with? Like, and it's, you get incredible experience. And like we've hired some really talented people from those giant companies because they want to, they want to work with the president, they want to work with the owner. They want to have say in like, like how this place operates. And yeah, and that's. We've benefited from that. But then you don't want to like, outgrow that feeling either.

[B]

And it, and it's really hard.

[A]

It is hard.

[B]

And, and I haven't seen it done too many. Like, you start to, I mean, you're at the size where it's like, it's hard. You start to go past 500 people.

[A]

That's you have to. You've got to really check yourself. You have to really check yourself on the, like, ivory tower mentality.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And be very cautious about, like, is this policy really applicable to our people or is it just like, we're going to help our EMR or like, whatever? Like, are we doing this for the right reason? Yeah. Or is there another way? Maybe there's another way of doing it. There's another way of rolling it out.

[B]

Well. And this is where it starts to get controversial. But it's not. Because this is how I've seen it. It play out. It's. It's. It's really down to culture, but legitimate culture.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it's. But once you get to a certain size, it's so much easier and less risky to just rule by rules.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Listen, here's the rules. And this is where I think safety has gone the complete wrong direction in a lot of ways, because the people that have made safety all about, just follow the rules.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It is what it is. Just follow the damn rules. Here's the book. Follow the rules. And if you don't, you're fired. And that sounds silly, but I would say that's the majority at. At the bigger operations.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But every once in a while, you come around a company that's like. And they're safer than anybody. Go figure.

[A]

Because it's in their culture.

[B]

Because it's cultural. Because it's common sense. Because they trust to people.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because they, like, really care. And their. And their leadership really care. Because they've maintained. And they've not just maintained, but they've grown. What got them there in the first place?

[A]

It has to be authentic. It has to be authentic all the way through. So, like, I can say we're going to think about safety first on everything we do. But, like, it has to mean something. I have to show it. And it has to show through every level of leadership. And then you also just have to empower your field leadership. Like the superintendents and foremen. They should be leading your safety effort, not the safety department.

[B]

No, they're.

[A]

They're like.

[B]

If you think.

[A]

If you think the safety department's gonna come out and save your ass, then you're crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you need to take pride in the fact that you operate safely at a field leadership level.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, that has to mean something to you. And it's. I mean, it's a behavioral change because. No, people don't like rules.

[B]

People are smart. People are intuitive.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I, you know, I don't. Some people are pretty, in this world, they're pretty bitter about people and they'll think everybody's a dumb, dumb. But people are intuitive. And it's like, if you're treating me like a fucking child, I'm gonna act like a child. I don't like that. But if you're, if you're, if you're really caring about me and I can tell the difference, like, I'm, I'm smart enough to know what's going on here, right? I am a way more bought in. And I, I can tell you these experiences I've had where it's like, man. And I'm not saying people don't care. Like, they don't know any better. Or again, it's so much, it's simpler. It's more black and white to just make safety. And I'm picking on safety because that's the, that's the simplest. No, sure, that's, that's, that's where I see it go off the rails. The most absolute. It's simple to just rules, rules, rules, rules, rules, rules. But I can, I can tell you the experiences I've had where it's like, this is different. They legitimately care what the heck's going on, right?

[A]

Like, right.

[B]

They legitimately care, right? And I'm just more bought in. And I can, I can get that feeling in five minutes, right? Which is amazing to me. And I'm fine with all the rule, like, I get. I'm not gonna go kick and scream too. But my, my complaint with the bigger companies is like, I wish they just said, like, listen, we're just this big multinational company, right? We need to have rules and you've just got to follow the rules. It is what it is. And we're just gonna treat you like a six year old because we have to manage to the lowest common denominator and we don't trust you. And it's like, okay, that's fair.

[A]

Yeah, I get it. And we, we work for some of the really big dogs. Like, that's kind of the way it feels like at first. But then you also get to know their people and you're like, well, they are people too. Like, at first, because it's always like, it's brought our whole safety program along, working for them because you pick up all these tidbits on like, really what you should be doing, which is, like, which is really good. But at the same time, they acknowledge, like, they have to do it because, you know, corporate is pushing and that's okay. Like, as long as you Understand that and that's the process. Like, then we can all kind of understand each other and work together. But it's the most common denominator is we just want people to go home safe every day. Right. So like let's just give them the tools to be safe, like self audit jobs. Okay, well how do I do that? Well, here's the way to do it. Like here's our format. But no, like we're not gonna have a safety person. We can't have a safety person on every job every day. And their situational awareness is not yours. Yeah, they've never built a job like this before. You're the one doing it every day. I like it is one of the hardest things to do is build a safety culture and not be as rule based as like you're saying. Because everyone's, I guarantee anybody who's done this for a minute has tried both approaches and it just, it, you're right, it does not work. To be totally rule based, there has to be some gray area. Not every rule broken can be applied the same way to every situation. Is a suspension warranted? Is letting somebody go warranted? Is a near miss? I mean all those things like, gosh, near misses is like one of the, I would say one of the greatest new trends in safety is like, please share your near miss with us. You will never get in trouble for that because there's so much that can be learned. And then not only just like sharing that with the crew that it happened like, okay, well then let's blast that out to the entire company to say, this is what happened on the job site today. Now you don't have to learn from your own mistake, learn from somebody else's. And luckily nobody got hurt.

[B]

But the whole near miss thing only.

[A]

Works if people believe in it and they're not going to get in trouble.

[B]

Exactly. And that is rare.

[A]

Like, it's very rare that I, I.

[B]

I've, I've been in situations getting like better at it.

[A]

But I'm telling you, it's safe. It's hard.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's so hard.

[B]

Yeah, I, oh well, I had, this was long time ago. But I was checking in and they had the board that said, you know, no incidents in like a thousand something days.

[A]

Right? Yeah, we have, we have a similar board.

[B]

Yeah, everybody's seen those. And the guy checking me in was like, you see that? Don't it up. And I was just like, how do I even check?

[A]

How do I even move now?

[B]

Well, I, I just ate doing something this, like this Was a long.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, I just, I ate and I. I tore my. Tore my knee up pretty good.

[A]

You didn't want to be the one to break the.

[B]

There was no way I was saying anything. No way.

[A]

But that's not a great zero. Yeah.

[B]

Zero Chance. Chance. And, and maybe that's my fault, but I don't know, man. Like, I, I.

[A]

No, I get it.

[B]

And so that's where it's like, well, something like that would be great. But then it still comes down to that. Like, it still comes down to people, right? Like, you can have all these. It was a big company, big rules, all these systems, processes, big safety work, you know, so on and so forth. But it still comes down to that one individual. I didn't necessarily feel cared for.

[A]

No, exactly.

[B]

So, like, so I wasn't.

[A]

All those metrics are good in the board with the days without lost time, like, that's really important to us. And like, we've done that to be intentional about being, like, better, about no lost time and workers comp. And all those different things, like keeping people working as much as we possibly can. But, man, resetting that to zero is not the end of the world. Like, yeah, accidents happen. It has to be about the person. Like, you got to take care of the people first. Like, yeah, you should not have feared reporting that you hurt your knee. Like, it's gonna happen.

[B]

But I, But I think I would, I would say that's the majority.

[A]

I know. And it's a razor's ass because you want. Just how do you combat that?

[B]

And it is. And it is tough because again, you're working for these customers that are like, listen, we have a zero. And that's where it works against each other. It's like, totally. You guys not see this. Like, it's, it's saying. And especially now you get into training, it's like, so we have a. So. So your whole generation learned by things up.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But now they're reporting zero tolerance for that. Okay, cool. That's fine.

[A]

I'm on board you want less people to get hurt.

[B]

I'm on board with less rework, less injuries. 10, four.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But we're also not going to give you any kind of training or anything like that.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And it's like, well, yeah.

[A]

And we're not going to have any comments, which is, yeah, we want you.

[B]

To report anything, but if you report something, we're gonna have to shut the job down. You're gonna be in big trouble. You might not be able to do more work.

[A]

Like, Right.

[B]

I Don't know what to do. Like, and you're just in the middle.

[A]

You're like, right.

[B]

You know me as a. Me as a foreman.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Out in the field. Like, hey. And there's, you know, I know that. I'm smart enough to know that.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And there's 65 people, you know, theoretically, 65 other people at my company working on this job site.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

I don't want to be the one to jeopardize the livelihood of all these people and. And never, like, it just. It gets so complicated, so messy. That's why I hate when it's just black and white, because it's like, no, no, no, no. That's not how it works. Yeah, that's not.

[A]

It doesn't.

[B]

But I think a company like. Like you guys going back to the big picture, like, are perfectly positioned to make that a reality from, like, a cultural standpoint. Yeah. I think we're a family business.

[A]

We try our best, and. And we've stubbed our toes on almost any initiative we tried to roll out. But if you have to be, like, humble and acknowledge that, too, along the way, like, yeah, give us benefit of the doubt. We're going to give you benefit of the doubt, too. And that's, like, what our organization needs to be built on is that trust within each other is like, I promise you, we're not going to roll anything out just to roll it out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There is a purpose behind this. But we'll also acknowledge, like, if it's not working, we'll scrap it and throw it away. But, like, let us try, because it's always just in the sense of, like, trying to be better.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. It's not like you're sitting in your office, like, all right, how do I make things harder?

[A]

No.

[B]

How do I make things worse? Yeah.

[A]

And if I'm in my office just, like, shooting things out, then, like, shame on me, too. Right. Because it needs to be vetted at, like, multiple levels. That's never a good recipe for success either. Like, just the. The guy sitting in his office, shooting out all these different things.

[B]

But that. It goes back to the power of just saying, listen, I'm doing my best here.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I am the only person within this business with access to the information that I have, the perspective that I have.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

That doesn't mean I know everything.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That definitely means I don't know everything. I don't need to know everything. Like, even just approaching it from that perspective, I feel like gets you a lot of trust. It does, because it's like, oh, wait, wait, wait. This is the guy saying he doesn't know what's going on. Like, oh, oh, okay. Like, I don't know what's going on either. I'm glad we're on the same page here.

[A]

Right? You hope so. And empowering people, like from the safety aspect and everything to say, like, everyone has a say. Like, if you're uncomfortable on a job site, like, I don't care if you've been here for a week. Like having the, like, power to stop a job.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I try to tell Everybody, like taking five or 10 minutes, I know we're all like, everyone's so dialed into production. That is like just the nature of the beast. Like, construction is never going to change that way. We're always going to be about production because that's what makes the dollar. But you are so much less productive if you have an incident. Like, if something actually does go wrong and they shut the job down, God forbid somebody gets hurt or there's just an. A long investigation. Like, that's way less productive than saying, we're going to have an hour stand down because this just is out of whack right now. Like, that looks bad. That trench isn't set correctly. We're going to just take a step back and plan. This again is so much more productive than having the incident. Right.

[B]

Well. And remove safety from it, even. Just maybe the operation's a disaster. Or it starts raining, it's buttoned up in the morning, it starts raining, site conditions totally change. Or a sub shows up and starts working over there. They weren't working over there. Or the hall route changes and now trucks are coming through here. Like, wait a minute. But you just keep going because production, production, production, like even taking. Let's just. Hey, hey, hey. Take 10 minutes. Take a break. Conditions have changed. What do we got to consider here?

[A]

Yeah, that's why daily huddles and then debriefs at the end of the day. Like, yeah, so important because conditions change all the time and there's so many people working around you at all times. Like, it's such a rare thing to be able to go hit a green. Just a green field and like, go start moving dirt.

[B]

Oh, but that is.

[A]

Every once in a while. It's the best feeling in the world.

[B]

Yeah. There's nothing, nothing better. But. Well, I, I very much appreciate you driving down here.

[A]

Yeah, it's been great. It's an easy drive, you know, great roads between here. It's here, here.

[B]

I'm telling you. Jones brothers, Scotty's Exactly. Yeah.

[A]

These guys know what they're doing.

[B]

Boy, do they? Yeah. I, I, no, I appreciate you coming down. I, I'm glad we, we were able to catch up. I'm excited about what you all are doing.

[A]

I appreciate that. You're like, you've come before. You're welcome to come visit jobs anytime. I'll keep sending you the. Yeah, the neat and different ones, but it's fun watching your journey around the world, man. It's. It's incredible.

[B]

It is fun.

[A]

Yeah. I'm jealous.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. It's. I mean, that's why I do it so much, because it's like, I don't want to take this for granted. I have this cool little thing going. I want to. I just want to squeeze all juice I can out of.

[A]

You should. Absolutely.

[B]

We're right on.

[A]

Yeah, it's been fun.

[B]

Yeah. Well, thanks. And, yeah, hopefully we see you all soon.