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- [00:11]
A
What before we get into the leadership stuff, though, what's from a professional standpoint? What's your background? So where did you learn leadership?
- [00:20]
B
Yeah, that's a good question. Well played sports growing up. So part of teams and you know, that. That was the whole team thing probably came from that as much as anything. But then when I got out of school, I actually started teaching school, which I wasn't qualified to do. It was kind of crazy, but I had a principal who was kind of desperate and ended up getting hired. It was wild story. But anyway, ended up teaching school and, you know, you had a classroom and you're trying to keep kids headed toward the right objectives and all that kind of stuff.
- [00:55]
A
What, what age?
- [00:56]
B
Ninth graders to start with. Yeah. So it was like deep into the pool kind of thing. They didn't want to be there any more than I did, you know, but it was good. And. And then did that for a while and. And then. But I started coaching and I was coaching, you know, sports teams, basketball, football, and learning leadership there. And I got. I just got interested in. In leadership. I had a couple of guys that gave me some books to read and I started, you know, John Maxwell, back in the day, you' and you're learning and I thought, this is cool. And just kind of the way I was wired up. My parents were both solid leaders. And I mean, I don't know, I just always knew if you got a good leader, things are really good. And if you don't have a good leader, it's not good. And so I was interested in that. And then I left education and I had lived out in Fort Worth for a while and I met a guy out there who lived down in. End up moving back to Georgia and he had started a church and the church was really growing. And so he calls me up and he said, hey, I need you to come. I need you to come help me with this church. And I'm like, you know, I don't. Basically he was asking me they had a children's ministry. And I'm like, I'm not a children's. I mean, I don't know. But I was passionate about family and I thought if you'll let me be work with families. So I don't care what you do, you got to take care of all these babies that we have coming. And that place, it was really cool. It ended up we got there, they had about 600 people coming, and within three years there were 1700 people. And it was just. It exploded.
- [02:46]
A
How old were you?
- [02:47]
B
I was 30 when I got there.
- [02:49]
A
You're still pretty.
- [02:50]
B
Yeah, I was pretty young, pretty green. I mean, I'd been teaching for about almost 10 years and I honestly felt kind of like a duck out of water. And anyway, long story short, the thing exploded. And when it did, I moved out of that family role into an executive pastor role. And I did that for. Honestly, for how long? 18 years.
- [03:11]
A
Really.
- [03:11]
B
I stayed in that role leading that staff. I mean, I. Staff. We had a staff, about 50 people, and it was a big 3,000 plus, multiple campuses and organized all that and helped with that, helped lead all that and had a great team of people and learned. But that was the leadership thing. It was just like we're constantly. This leader was constantly encouraging us to grow and to learn and to develop, which is not typically what you think of in a ministry, but it was just where we cut our teeth and. And learned so much. And then in 2014, it's been almost. This will be 12 years. April will be. I decided to go and try to help more leaders. And I had actually started a blog back in the day. Everybody's blogging. You know, I started a blog and there wasn't a lot of video stuff going around, but I'd started blogging. Several companies had started reaching out and saying, hey, can you help us with this? And one of the things that happened was Clint Hurtle, who was the manager of the Pittsburgh Pirates, had started reading it and he reached out and I got connected to those guys and started doing some development with their coaches. And I just realized there's a bigger audience out there to the things that I'm talking about and teaching about. And so that, yeah, that's kind of how it started. And so I've just always really focused on how do we help leaders get better? I mean, it's, you know, that's kind of where it started.
- [04:52]
A
Going back to the classroom.
- [04:53]
B
Yeah.
- [04:54]
A
What was like a memorable leadership lesson that you learned at a high school, teaching high schoolers as a 20 something year old.
- [05:04]
B
Yeah, yeah, it was. It was really interesting, to be honest with you. I started out, I got hired at Christmas. It was a teacher had retired and I had gone back up to the summer before. I had gone to this school and I'd asked this principal if I could come and coach. I wanted to coach. I wanted to coach football. And she's like, we've already got our coaches. I moved to Fort Worth in August, went there immediately. She's like, we already got our coaches. Call me at Christmas. And I'm thinking, okay. And you know, we didn't have the calendars back then. It was just a big calendar on the desk. This back in the 1900s, where I come from, it's old school. So I literally put a. Put the Friday before Christmas break, I put a note on the calendar. I'm going to call the school and I'm going to talk to her about a football job in the fall, the following fall. And so I call up and she's like, who is this? And you know, she didn't remember me at all. And it's not football season, you know, you told me to call you today. And here's what she said. She said, do you teach? And I said, no, I don't teach. I want to coach. And she says, do you, do you teach biology? And I'm like, I don't teach. I mean, I just told you, I don't, you know. So I'm thinking, I'm hearing a little desperation, this lady. And she says, and then I knew she was in trouble. When she asked the next question. She says, have you taken biology? And I'm like, well, I have taken biology. And she says, I need you to come to my office at 4 o' clock this afternoon when school's out. And I'm like, okay. So I get down there, Erin, and she's got a big orange textbook on the desk and she pushes it across the thing and she says, I don't know you from anybody, but if you'll take it. I've got two sections of 9th grade biology that start in two weeks and it's Christmas break and I can't find a teacher. I really have to have somebody. Would you be willing to teach biology? You think you could? And I'm like, yeah, I think so. I mean, I was working in a. I was working in a mental hospital, which was another story, which was hard, crazy, wild, you know, all that stuff. And I was driving the van for patients. You know, I wasn't qualified to work there either, but I ended up taking this job teaching biology and natural career progression. Yeah, it was just, you know how it is. And so I was the evolution of a career. I was teaching. And I would read the chapter the night before. You know, I'm going in and trying to teach the next day, and I'm just basically a day ahead of these ninth graders. So the lesson, your question is, at the end of the year, it had gone okay. And so they hired me back for the fall. But she pulls me aside and says, you've got to. We've got to have some lesson plans. And there's this deal called a scope and sequence, which I had no idea what that was. I wasn't. Again, I wasn't trained as an educator. So I'm like, okay. And so they explained to me leader development. Basically, the way I think of it now, it's student development, same thing. We want so many people to be leaders, and yet we just. Our training is, if you need something, let me know. And we send them out and we don't teach them how to lead a meeting or build a team or solve problems. There's no. There's literally no scope and sequence to it. And so I learned through that, through that education that you have to. You can't just have random acts of education going on. There's got to be. Think about it this way. If somebody listening has a first grader, they don't send the first grader to the first day of school and expect them to get a trigonometry book. That doesn't happen. They're going to get some numbers in first grade and then they'll learn to count and they'll add them up and subtract them and they'll get the times tables in third grade and maybe some algebra, fractions, whatever along the way. And I never made it to trig, but you can make it. You just don't start there. And I think sometimes we think leaders are, you know, we put them in a leadership position and just we hope they're going to know what to do. And if we don't train them specifically, you know, and sequentially, we really are going to. We're going to. We're going to set them up to fail. And so we find this everywhere. And so I learned a lot of what we do now. You know, we've created this operating system. Mark Miller and I have, through our Lead Every Day book, we've created an operating system. It's basically just a scope and sequence for leader development. How to become a better leader, how to strengthen your organization ultimately, but improve team performance along the way. And so all that holistically is a lot of it goes back to my education. Background of learning that you can't just have random stuff. You've got to have a sequential way to do. Do training and development. I think so many organizations just hope they'll end up with leaders because they talk about leadership or they give people a book and it just doesn't work because they don't have that process. So that's. That all goes back to that education.
- [10:07]
A
It's well and you're saying, like, it happens often. I think it happens almost always. I think that's almost always the case is. And there are a lot of organizations talking about it. Like, they're talking about culture right now, too. That's the.
- [10:22]
B
Everybody wants to talk about.
- [10:22]
A
Yeah, let's talk about culture. It's. It's like there was a. I forget who. Who the quote was from. It was from some general. Back in the day, but it's like. It's along the lines of if you have to talk about morale and how good it is, that means it's not very, you know.
- [10:39]
B
Yeah.
- [10:40]
A
So the. The more a company's talking about culture and leadership, the more I'm like, they probably. I don't know.
- [10:46]
B
Yeah, that's right.
- [10:47]
A
What's going on? But it's. It's me as a young man. I didn't. I hadn't really. We got plugged in. The first time I started thinking about leadership was from Jocko's book, Extreme Ownership.
- [10:58]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [10:59]
A
I hadn't thought about leadership before. And then we got to spend. I got to spend some time with him, you know, maybe five years ago or something like that now. And that was the first time I started to think about it as a skill, like anything else.
- [11:11]
B
Yeah.
- [11:12]
A
I didn't even conceptualize it as a skill. I thought, you're either a leader or you're not. And that's so far from reality. It's like playing basketball. Don't expect to be able to shoot constant free throws.
- [11:27]
B
That's right.
- [11:27]
A
If you've never practiced free throws.
- [11:29]
B
That's right.
- [11:29]
A
And it takes years to get good in reps, and you need the base skill set.
- [11:35]
B
And it's cumulative over time, too. You just keep putting. Putting in a bank, growing every day. I was talking to a leader on the way up, and, you know, just. I was just encouraging him. You got to grow. I mean, if you grow, you're going to be positioned to have influence. If you don't grow, you really. It's. It's just not going to be good.
- [11:53]
A
Yeah, well. And it starts with you and you growing. Like, that's what I've recognized. And I think a lot of people have a problem with prioritizing themselves. They're always trying to take care of others. But it's like, well, if. If you're not worth anything, though, you can't adequately take care of others. You've got to start with. With you. And with this company, it's like, if I stop growing, the company's gonna Run me over. Like, just because my name's in the company name, that. That. That doesn't mean I'm. I'm. I deserve to be here for sure. I need to deserve to be here by growing, by becoming a better leader.
- [12:28]
B
I heard. I heard a leader say, if you want your company to grow by 10%, then you better personally grow by 10%, because your company never will outgrow the leadership. It just won't happen. No. If you stop growing, if the company has momentum, it might grow for 10 minutes, but it's a very short amount of time until that thing will plateau. If the leader plateaus, because the leader line and the growth line are tied, the business line, they're tied together. I mean, it just. You're exactly right. It won't outgrow your. Your leadership. So we got to be growing.
- [13:01]
A
So I want to get into the book and everything you're doing alongside Mark as well. But I want to talk about ministry for a while.
- [13:09]
B
That's good.
- [13:11]
A
So I'm sure there were, like, a long list of leadership lessons from leading kids, because that's what teaching is. It's leadership.
- [13:20]
B
Totally.
- [13:20]
A
Like, you were trying to influence these kids to learn something that's in their best interest, but you. You need to convince them that it's in their best interest. And some might not, maybe will never buy it.
- [13:34]
B
Most. Most students don't show up thinking, oh, I'm excited about learning biology.
- [13:38]
A
Yeah. High school, freshman year biology. I can't wait.
- [13:41]
B
Like, oh, my gosh. Yeah.
- [13:43]
A
So you do that for a while, and then you end up in ministry.
- [13:46]
B
Yeah.
- [13:48]
A
What. What was that like? What was navigating that like, especially as a young man, too, because that's. That's an interesting time of your life.
- [13:56]
B
Yeah, that started out well. I go all the way back. I actually. I was in. I was in Nashville when I. When I felt like I want to use my life to try to help people as much as I can. And, you know, some people would. Would say, that's a call or whatever. I didn't really feel. I just felt like I want to try to. I don't want to just be here and make a living. I'd like to make a difference if I could, you know?
- [14:23]
A
Where did that come from?
- [14:24]
B
I don't know. I mean, maybe God did put that in me. I'm not. I mean, maybe. I think all of us have a responsibility to use our lives to. You get a choice, right? I mean, go back to. You remember Robert Frost, the old poem, the Road Not Taken? He Talks about there's two roads, there's, you know, that diverged in a snowy wood and. And I took the one less traveled by was his line. And I don't remember the poem all, but I know at the end he makes the statement, it has made all the difference. Sure. And I thought about, life is like, you have an option here. You can be self serving or you can try to serve others. And so much of my bent, I think all of us, so much of my bent though is I love me some me. It's easy to be self serving. And I thought, I want to try as best I can to use some of my work or most of my work to try to make a difference and have impact. And so, you know, I look back on my life, how many people had influence on me as a teacher or a coach, and I thought, that's a great way to have impact on the next generation. I didn't really, you know, see that as my end all be all, but I thought, I'm going to teach for a while. And so I did that. And then, and then the ministry thing happened. You know, we were. Laura and I had gotten married, we had a couple of kids, and I was real involved in the family. We were living in Knoxville at the time. I was really involved in the family work in our church there and leading a small group of guys and trying to learn ourselves. And so when we had this opportunity to move to Atlanta with this young church that was going on and they said, hey, can you come help us? I thought, okay, this feels like a good opportunity to go help a bunch of families that are trying to figure it out as well. I mean, there's hundreds of families in this church. And so I was learning, I was trying to teach and trying to help and all that stuff. You know, I just think it was the next step in trying to add value. I mean, at the end of the day, that's really what it was about. And it was, you know, the, the faith part of it was congruent with the way I was thinking about my life. But it was, it was just, I mean, the timing of all that, the people I got to be around, the leaders I got to work with, it was just, yeah, it was really formational for me. And at 30, you know, I mean, it was, I mean, honestly, priceless when I look back on it. It was really. But, but it's pretty obscure. I mean, it was like, you know, I still am. You know, a lot of people will ask me, how did you, you know, how did all this happen. And I think time had more to do with it than anything because I'm, you know, in a lot of ways, nobody from nowhere, you know, but never felt that way. I mean, I always felt like there's. There's a reason for me to be here, and I'm going to try to, you know, add value as best I can, and that's the way I was taught.
- [17:31]
A
So I think part of leadership, too, is, like, rooted in data. And so the more. The more you can deal with people and interact with people and try, you know, a toolbox is worth nothing without something to go work on.
- [17:46]
B
That's right.
- [17:47]
A
And. And so you can get all these leadership tools, but if you're not constantly practicing with them, they're not. They're not worth a whole lot. I'm sure within ministry as well. Like over. I think you said 18 years.
- [17:59]
B
18 years, yeah.
- [18:00]
A
I mean, how many thousands, tens of thousands of people?
- [18:04]
B
The messages you preach and the counseling appointments and meetings with people. One of the things that we had that I really loved is we had a. I mean, the church was really big, and so we had a big staff, but we had a leadership community that we created. And we would have about 300 leaders that would come one night a month, and we would train them on leadership. And so you're not. You got to. If you're going to train them, you got to have. You got to be trained yourself. You got to know what you're going to talk about. And so, you know, working a lot of that content out and thinking about how do we develop these people that are trying to take care of, you know, these thousand volunteers that we had and hundreds. I mean, it was. It was. It's pretty cool. And so it was a different way to think about it than. Than most churches that I'd been a part of. But, you know, again, I learned so much. And I think that was, I'll say it the way I did a minute ago. It was just a formational time, so it was cool.
- [19:00]
A
The top question I'm asked is, what does Bill Witt do? Our purpose is to build the dirt world's next generation. The dirt world is the companies and people building the critical infrastructure and supporting those who build our critical infrastructure that we need to live the lives that we do. Our business is much bigger than me. I run around the world building our brand, but the business itself does two things. One, we help develop the next generation through our product called billwhit Improve. It's a daily training and development platform at about 300 civil construction companies are using to not just make their people better workers, but better people. And of course, we have the 2026 Ariat dirt world Summit, the best opportunity to develop yourself and your teams as, as leaders. So check us out. Billwhit.com, book a meeting with us and we'll talk to you soon. Well, and from a leadership standpoint, this year is the first year I've actually read the New Testament. I read the Old Testament, which was pretty heavy duty. It's a mission.
- [20:11]
B
It's a little bit of a lift, for sure. Yeah.
- [20:12]
A
But then I got to the New Testament, it's like, all right, I, I kind of know, I can kind of conceptualize what's happening here. And it was a really interesting time, my life, because I've, I guess I've been a student of leadership now for maybe 10 years. I'm 30. I started figuring it or going down the path when I was in college, I would say. And so I have, I have some level of skill set now and it's developing. But as I was reading through the New Testament, it's like, this is a great, this is great leadership material. Like, like religion aside, you can, everything else aside, if you just, if you read this strictly based on its leadership merit. Yeah, it's pretty solid. It's hard to argue with.
- [21:04]
B
Yeah. And I love the simplicity of, I say simplicity. It's not simplistic, but it is simple. Just, just the New Testament especially is just simple. If we just love God and love people.
- [21:16]
A
Yes, it's pretty selfish.
- [21:17]
B
And love yourself and love your neighbor as yourself. I always wonder if we get to heaven and we could have a conversation with Jesus. I always wonder. He says, love your neighbor as yourself. I always think, does he know that we love ourselves a whole lot and if we love our neighbors as much as we love ourselves, the world will be a lot better if we thought about others as much as we think about ourselves. I guess that's the way I'm trying to say it. Yeah, I love that. I think it's great. I think looking back, and I'm a student of leadership just like you and probably everybody listening. I think Jesus was the best leader to ever live. I mean, I just look at the. You look at the lasting impact of the way he lived his life and all the ripple effect of that. It's hard to argue with. So. Yeah. And there's so much principle centered leadership truth that's found anywhere really in the Bible. I mean, it's just so much good stuff.
- [22:15]
A
Yes. Yeah.
- [22:16]
B
It gives us something to anchor to or tether to in a world that it's gotten more and more noisy. I've told leaders the last year or two, I've been thinking about this a lot is noise just seems to make it on my schedule. Whether I schedule it or not. It's just, there's just so much noise. It just keeps coming and media noise and social media noise. And I've got noise in my own head noise. I mean, it's just like constant stuff. And yet quiet doesn't make it onto your calendar unless you, unless you calendar it. You got to schedule it. I mean, it won't happen. And there's no, there's no chance that our lives are going to be settled and thoughtful if we don't have any quiet at all. It's like you're talking about a minute ago. We've got to, we got to have some time to take care of ourselves.
- [23:01]
A
Yeah.
- [23:01]
B
I think it becomes more, it's more challenging than it ever has been.
- [23:04]
A
So it's, I've, I've been thinking it, it is more challenging and it is more noisy. But the principles are the same.
- [23:13]
B
They are the same.
- [23:14]
A
It's not that complicated when, when and, and, and it's like, listen, this is a play that's been running for thousands of years.
- [23:21]
B
Well, if you think of, go back, not to interrupt, but if you think about Jesus, he constantly was in the fray of the work and then he would constantly pull away and be quiet. If you read, when you read the New Testament, you just this, that's the rhythm and pattern of the, of his work. And so I think there's a lesson for every leader. If you don't have any stillness in your life. In fact, the Bible says in quietness is your strength. Which means if you don't have any quiet in your life, you're really not as strong as you think you are. Well, so I think that's important.
- [23:50]
A
But this goes back to, yeah, love thy neighbor as thyself. We love ourselves from an ego standpoint. But I don't think, like, I'm thinking about this from the construction industry. And how do we ensure that the construction industry is stronger in the future than it is today? Because if the construction industry is stronger in the future, society will be stronger in the future. And if, and if I don't want to at least try to make society stronger in the future, there's no point. I should just call it a day right now. Like, what's the whole point of life then? If I'M not trying to make life better for those coming after me. That I will never see.
- [24:33]
B
Yeah.
- [24:34]
A
So that's what I'm really like. That's the problem that I've been presented in life to, to dedicate my life to. I'm very, I'm very grateful for that. I've really been thinking about how to break it down and I've always been attacking it from here's what we need to do as companies, but now I'm like actually like dirt world. You were there.
- [24:59]
B
Yeah.
- [25:00]
A
It's not about what we do as companies. It's what each individual here does. It's just us.
- [25:07]
B
Yeah.
- [25:07]
A
It's not our companies, it's not our teams. It's just us as individuals. And like, are we really loving ourselves? And by that I mean doing the work that is required.
- [25:22]
B
The self leadership stuff of us as leaders.
- [25:25]
A
Yes. Like putting time aside to think.
- [25:28]
B
Yeah. And I think that to me, I think that's foundational. And for your listeners who build buildings, they would never walk into a building they knew where the foundation was flawed. I mean, it's just. You wouldn't do that.
- [25:41]
A
Well, our listeners are the ones making the foundation. Exactly. That's what I'm saying.
- [25:45]
B
They understand that there is a value and a strong foundation. And yet how many of us, our lives, we don't really spend very much time at all thinking about stuff at a soul level, at a personal care level, how am I taking care of my body, how am I taking care of my mind, how am I taking care of my family? All those things. So I think you're exactly right. If we don't have any of that built in, we shouldn't be surprised down the road when the whole thing begins to crumble at some point. That's what we are. Exactly. I know so many leaders that are just, they're bottlenecking what could happen because they're not taking care of themselves or they're not letting go of something, letting somebody do what they should. I got to micromanage it all and now I don't have time to take care of me because I'm taking care of everybody else. And again, that's just a matter of time until that thing crumbles.
- [26:41]
A
Well, and I, I mean you can extract it even further. I think that's what the United States is in a lot of ways right now. I think, I think we've been resting, we've been riding the coattails of previous generations and previous leadership and we haven't been developing ourselves as leaders as A nation. I. I just read a book comparing China to the United States. It was really interesting. And, And. And at the. He wrapped it up perfectly. He said, in the United States, we've labeled ourselves as a developed nation. But what I'm arguing for is we need to become again a developing nation.
- [27:19]
B
Developing.
- [27:20]
A
And it's like, man, that hit me like a ton of bricks. I'm like, that's exactly what we need to do right now. Yeah, we need to become again a developing nation, and we should stay a developing nation. The development, like, I think that's part of the problem is, well, the development's been. Is done. It's like, no, no, no, no, no.
- [27:41]
B
It's never done.
- [27:42]
A
It's never done. And to develop a nation. It's a nation, is just people.
- [27:47]
B
Mark always says, when you think you're done, you're done. That's when you're done. I mean, it's like, yeah, it's so important for us to continue to try to grow and get better. And it reminds me of something I read or I heard, actually, in an interview a few years ago. Nick Saban, who was the coach of Alabama's football team, my wife went to Auburn, so I never liked Alabama. I was like, oh, my gosh, it was just terrible. Tough, you know? Exactly. It was so bad. And. But Auburn had beaten him a couple of times, and. And Georgia had beaten him a couple of times over the previous couple years. And Alabama ends up beating Auburn and Georgia back to back weeks to win the Iron bowl and then to win the SEC championship. And. And the reporter asked Nick Saban, how's it feel to beat your two biggest rivals? And he says, those aren't actually our rivals. Complacency is our rival. It's exactly what you're saying. I mean, when he said that, I'm like, oh, my gosh, please retire, because I knew it's going to be a problem. He's not competing with everybody. He's trying to. How good can we be?
- [28:53]
A
Sure.
- [28:54]
B
And I think your point about being a developing mindset is like, I think leaders always have to be on the edge of, how can I continue to improve our success if we're not careful, really can be our downfall. And we've seen this happen over and over for nations, for leaders, for companies, for whatever. And yet the ones who stay hungry and keep trying to grow, they're the ones, honestly, that make the biggest impact. So it's hard, but I think it's the most important work we do is the work we do to Take care of our own leadership. And if we get that right, then we're going to be positioned to influence a lot of people.
- [29:27]
A
But. But that I think. Yeah, I think that's the root of it. Everybody, including myself, all the time, I'm always looking for something on the outside that's going to make something better. But almost. Not almost every time. Every time. The problem is whoever's in the mirror.
- [29:42]
B
Yeah.
- [29:42]
A
And it's like, oh, yeah. And sometimes I've run from it from a long time. Like, no, it's not me. It's not me. Yeah, it always is me. It. It always me.
- [29:53]
B
I'm my biggest problem. Yes, yes, yes. You're exactly right.
- [29:57]
A
It starts. It starts. Yeah. Everything starts with. So that's where I am. I'm. I'm trying to craft. My message now is like, listen, it's. It's this room. It's you as an individual. That's all there is to it. Yeah, it's me as an individual. Like, if we want to make this entire industry better.
- [30:16]
B
Yeah.
- [30:17]
A
We've just. We just have to make ourselves better. Like, it's not that hard. Yeah, but it's really hard.
- [30:23]
B
Yeah.
- [30:23]
A
Because it means you have to do the work.
- [30:24]
B
Yeah. Well, it starts with that question. I asked this question at the summit in my talk. It's the second question, if you go back, I mean, as old as time. Second question in the history of the world. It's the question that God asked Adam and Eve in the garden when they had eaten the forbidden fruit. They're kicked out, they're in trouble. And he comes with the question, where are you? And he knew exactly where they were. He just needed for them to own it, you know? And he didn't say, where are y'? All? I mean, there's multiple people involved here. But he says, where are you? And I think anybody listening, my question is, where are you right now? Are you? Are you. It's great what you're saying, but if I'm not going to take, you know, the opportunity to do anything about it, or to own my own dysfunction, or I'm bottlenecking our business, or I'm not letting somebody else do what they're supposed to, I'm not spending any time taking care of me. I'm not reading. I'm not going to a conference. You were talking about a conference you'd gone to and learned something from just a couple weeks ago. We're constantly trying to get better, and I think when we do that, it's, you know, we gain wisdom along the way. And it's not enough just to be alone. You can be alone and still be a fool. I mean, you need to be wise as well. You need some think time, but you need to then be able to make wise decisions based on what you're assessing there. And so I think that question, where are you? Is one I ask myself all the time. It's like, I need to make sure that I'm assessing, adjusting, and then I'm going to attack after that. I mean, it's.
- [32:00]
A
It's.
- [32:01]
B
It's. That's kind of the way to think about it at.
- [32:05]
A
At Dirt World, what was the title of your talk?
- [32:08]
B
Winning Begins at Home.
- [32:09]
A
Winning Begins at Home.
- [32:10]
B
Yeah.
- [32:11]
A
And so you didn't. You were in front of a thousand plus construction leaders. Yeah. But you didn't go get up there winning. Here's how to win in business. Right. Why did you, like. Why. Why is that where you are?
- [32:25]
B
Yeah, so. So, you know, we. We have this company that helps people with leadership stuff, culture and engagement and employee, you know, retention and all kind of stuff. And it's a lot of fun, but what we found is lead every day. Yeah, it's. And. And that's, you know, it's kind of what we do. And we work with a bunch of construction companies. It's great. But everything from professional sports teams to Chick Fil A to, I mean, basically companies far and wide, it's fantastic. What I kept hearing was the stuff y' all are teaching us is working. Our company's getting better, more profitable. Turnover's down, engagement's up, culture's better. All that stuff is great, but there's something missing outside of work. And as I start talking to these CEOs, especially, you know, the sentence I came up with was this. If you win at work and you lose at home, I think you still lose. I don't know anybody who's saying I want to build a massive company and yet blow up my family along the way. And we've all seen that. Most of us have felt that what it's like if family doesn't work, but just like, if I have a good leader, things are good for me. If I grow up in a stable family, it makes it more stable for me. And if I'm not in a stable family, it does make. It's not that we can't overcome that, but it does make it more challenging. And so I thought, how can we create a resource that would help leaders? Which nobody seemed to be talking about the outside of work part. And yet most of the leaders I talk to, they're like, that's where I'm struggling most, or that's where I need the most help. And there's really nothing out there. So. Wrote that book last year, Winning Begins at Home. And it's just been so fun to. To teach people. Really, the way I talk about it is I want to give them a blueprint for how to build a great family. And your audience especially will love the blueprint mindset because you're always working off plans. We have these great plans for work. We have these great. We plan for vacation. I mean, it's like we'll spend more time thinking about where we're going on a vacation than we will about our life and our family. And so I wanted to. Can we simplify this? Give them some fundamentals to think about family life and how to build a great family. I always say one of the things Mark and I both say is hope is not a strategy. You know, I think a lot of people just hope's a good thing. But if you're. If you're betting your family life on maybe, you know, maybe something will change, that's. No, I think there's some things we can do to. In the workplace, we say you behave your way to high performance. I think you. I think you behave your way to a great family as well. I think there's some things you can do. So, yeah, we created that resource. I wrote that last year. And just trying to help some leaders win. Outside of win where I say, where it matters most, which is home.
- [35:19]
A
What are those things?
- [35:21]
B
We have two fundamentals that we talk about. The first one is to love first, and the second one is to live last. The love first idea is about. I mean, there's several ways to think about this, but I asked myself the question, how would you live your life in such a way that the people who know you the best actually love you the most? So think about the people that you live with. So many people I know, the people who know them the best actually respect them the least. Dad, you're this way over there. Mom. You act that way, but when you come home, you. You're here, but you're not really here. I was talking to a leader just this morning who said, I feel like I'm home, but I'm never home. You know, I'll go through the motions, but. And I think that part's gotten harder. You know, we look at. You know, you go out to a restaurant now, and you'll see what looks like a mom and dad. Maybe a couple kids sitting around a table. And I was in a restaurant not long ago, and I saw four of them, and they were all four on a device around the table, you know? Yeah. You see that unless they're texting each other across the table, they're not together. And I think. I think sometimes we think proximity makes us a family, but proximity does not guarantee intimacy. When we think about love, it's, you know, you can. I mean, I know people who sleep in the same bed, they drink the same coffee, the whole thing. And they've been together for a long time, but they're really not together. You can drive a kid to school every day for, you know, eight, 10 years and not really be with the kid. You can have your radio going, and they got their device going. You're really not having any kind of connection. So love first is really about making sure that you prioritize the relationship and that while you're there, you're really there. Your tone of voice is another example of this. I think sometimes my wife always says, saying it louder doesn't make you more right. I think I'll just make my point here. And I think it's more important to get it right than to be right. Let's make sure that we're listening to each other. And that goes over into the. To the live last part. This is really about. I mean, it kind of goes back to our servant leadership mindset. And we always talk about thinking others first. And it's almost like an offensive lineman. I think of it like an offensive lineman in a football game. You know, we talk about football. Most people will name a quarterback is, you know, if I say name a football player, they're always thinking about quarterbacks. Nobody's naming the left guard for the Arizona Cardinals. I mean, they don't even know who that is.
- [37:52]
A
Yeah.
- [37:52]
B
And yet those guys show up every day and open up a way for other people to score. And I think that's the leader or the family member, the mom or dad, who really is creating an environment where that family can grow. And just one more second on this. My dad, when I was a kid, he taught me. He was our baseball coach. And in, I GUESS it was mid-70s, I'm going to be 12 years old. And aluminum baseball bats have been invented, and they finally made it to my hometown. And I get one for Christmas. And I'm thinking, this is going to be a cheat code. As I go into my last year of Little League, you know, it's kind of thing. And just a little guy Playing ball. And I'm not very big at the time. And my dad pulls me aside that spring and says, I want to teach you how to bunt. And I'm thinking, bunt? Have you lost your mind? If you're not a baseball person, a bunt is where you just kind of dribble the ball out and everybody else gets to move up on base, but you're making an out basically on purpose so everybody else can advance. And I look back on that now. My dad's, you know, passed away a few years ago, but I look back on it now and I think he knew someday I was going to grow up and need to understand what it means to sacrifice. And so that's what Live Last is about. It's about making sure that everybody. I'm racing to the back of the line, let's say it that way, that everybody is in front of me. And I know so many people when we go, you know, we're walking as a family. Dad's way out in front, or mom may be way out in front. We're just really not all together. And I think that mindset of giving my kids the last word and not trying to make my point, but really trying to understand how can we get where we want to go together. And so all that stuff is. Yeah, it's all in the book. And I wrote it in a parable format. And then there's a 80 page kind of blueprint in the back where people can work through and. And, you know, try to. Try to have a blueprint again to build a. Build a great family. I just think it's just too many people just winging it and hoping that things turn out, you know, I'd rather have a process and a way to think about that.
- [40:00]
A
Well, that's. I am. I am not Mr. Family. I'm not the guy to talk about families or relationships. But I feel like my life so far, even from a relationship standpoint, I've definitely. And I feel like men might be in this bucket more than women have. Oh, there's the books right there.
- [40:18]
B
Yeah, I brought one.
- [40:19]
A
Oh, good.
- [40:20]
B
But keep going.
- [40:20]
A
I was going to say I'm going to, because I didn't get one at the. At the summit. They were. They were taken from me. Here's chapter 15, bunting.
- [40:27]
B
There you go.
- [40:31]
A
From a relationship standpoint, though, definitely been winging it and. But you're. I've been winging it too. It's like, it's not my. I want to, like, defend myself because it's like that's just what I'm. That's kind of what society teaches. Like, oh, when you're with the right person, it all, like, you. You'll know when you know. Yeah, it all just works out just fine. And it's just. It's just bliss. Like, that's how it should be.
- [40:56]
B
Yeah.
- [40:57]
A
It doesn't work that way, though. It's like a. It's a very cozy narrative. That's just totally. It's same thing with, like. Well, leaders are born, not made.
- [41:07]
B
Yeah.
- [41:08]
A
No, that's not how it works at all.
- [41:10]
B
Yeah, I think. I think that's great. I mean, I think there. Let's think about it this way. We say a lot of times when we're talking to people about who you're going to hire, make sure there are three things. There's character, there's chemistry, and there's competency. The chemistry piece is very important. You want to work with the people, and in a relationship, there should be a spark. I mean, like, you do want some chemistry. Somebody you have fun with, you enjoy and all that kind of stuff. But the character stuff, you know, when I look back, Laura and I now have been married 38 years and counting, and I always tell her, if you ever leave me, I'm going to go with you. I mean, she's kind of stuck with me at this point, so that's like that deal. But I think what's kept us together, it sounds like. That's great. 38 years. 38 years. I mean, you can. It's. I mean, it's longer than you've been around. I mean, it's like, this is. This is. You stay 38 years. There's a lot of hard days, seasons up and down and this. You know, kids, and we had miscarriages, and I mean, there's all kind of stuff that goes into 38 years. It sounds great, and it's going to be fun to have a 40th anniversary party someday, whatever. But all that stuff is really hard. But the part, again, there is some chemistry. But the part that really has helped was the character part, the values part. Our values were aligned, and that's what we keep coming back to, has rooted us. And then the competency part, I mean, that's where we are trying to learn and get better at communication. And, you know, raising your voice doesn't make you right, Randy. We got to talk about it the right way and, you know, all that stuff. So we both have learned. You know, we come from two different backgrounds. My. My family is much more vocal and loud and, you know, just. Just kind of crazy, wild, you know, fun. And hers was. She'll tell you that hers was. Let's. Let's all just. If we have a problem, we'll just stuff it under the rug. Just don't step on the rug, you know, but it's like we'll just sweep it all under the rug kind of thing. And so we come from these two different backgrounds, and. And it's like, you know, she's bringing this suitcase into the marriage, and I'm bringing this suitcase in. And really, we all have this baggage we bring. And yet if we learn how to unpack that and get to know that, and she's going to be this way and I'm going to be that way, and. Which is really good, because now we've got two different ways to help move the ball down the field versus if we were both the same, you know, so there's. But there's things that we've learned along the way that have. Have helped us. And so I think the. The same thing's true, that we think about character, chemistry, and competency in hiring. I think those things are true in relationships as well. We need to have aligned values. We do need to have a spark. I mean, I'm not against the spark, but if you just, you know, if you're just looking for a spark and you forget this other stuff and we're not committed to improving, I think. I think, you know, it's why so many families struggle along the way. So I think, you know, it's been fun to write about it and talk about it and help leaders think about it. It's just a different side that a lot of people don't give a lot of thought to. And if we don't, then I think, you know, we can end up in trouble.
- [44:26]
A
Well, it's interesting because there wasn't. Like I said, I wanted one of these books, but you. I mean, how many did you bring to the summit? You must have brought a thousand.
- [44:35]
B
I think we brought. Yeah, over a thousand and gave them out.
- [44:37]
A
Over a thousand.
- [44:38]
B
Yeah.
- [44:38]
A
There wasn't. There wasn't one left. Yeah, there was. There wasn't one left.
- [44:42]
B
It was good.
- [44:43]
A
Which. Which. Which I think is because of the title.
- [44:46]
B
Yeah.
- [44:46]
A
And because of the need.
- [44:48]
B
Well, I think people want to get it right. People mean.
- [44:50]
A
People want.
- [44:51]
B
They really don't want to mess up this part.
- [44:53]
A
Yes, but they. But it's also. It's also a tough topic to talk about.
- [45:00]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [45:00]
A
Because you have to admit, I want.
- [45:02]
B
To pretend I got it all together.
- [45:03]
A
And yeah, you have to admit that things are well. Or it's not even pretending like you're pretending to yourself. Yeah. I think a lot of times it's not even externally. It's internally. I'm, oh, no, no, it's fine. It's okay.
- [45:16]
B
For sure. It.
- [45:17]
A
Or it'll get better or whatever. I'm not gonna do anything about it, but it'll get better. It requires you to admit your shortcomings. And oftentimes that's really deep rooted because it's the bat. It's oftentimes rooted in the bag. It is the bag that's not even yours.
- [45:33]
B
Yeah, that's exactly right.
- [45:34]
A
Yeah. You just picked it up along the way.
- [45:36]
B
And I think about. I think about this. I've thought about this a lot. So if you, if you've ever been to a. This is kind of veering off here. But if you've ever been to a track meet, I don't know if you've been to a track meet and watch the relay race. So there's a baton. And the races are typically not won by the fastest runner. They're won by the cleanest exchanges and they're lost. A lot of times when the baton, you know, we've seen teams that were world record teams drop the baton and, you know, forfeit the race. And so I think as parents, if somebody listening is a parent, it's easy to underestimate the exchange. That part is so important how we lead our kids and how we train them and teach them and talk to them and communicate to them. And yet some people listening are probably sitting here. I know so many leaders who would say, nobody ever handed me anything. I mean, I'm just kind of, I want to do what you're talking about, but I don't know how. And that's another reason I wrote the book. I thought this will be a simple way to think about it for somebody who has never been given the baton. But think about it this way, Aaron, if you ever go to one of those races, there will always be a lead runner. There's always going to be somebody who starts a race. And so I don't care whoever's listening. Your parents may have been totally dysfunctional or broken up or is a mess. At some point, somebody's got to start and say, we are going to do something new. We're going to create a functional as best we can. Every family's dysfunctional, but we've got. We're going to try to create a safe place Here, a good place. And I love that lead runner mindset that just says, I'm going to do the best I can with what I have, and I'm going to hand it to the next generation and hope they'll. They'll go even faster and further or farther. And. And so, yeah, that's the goal. I mean, it's. It's been fun, a fun project to work on. And so many people have reached out, actually, in the dirt world, too. It just. So many people have reached out and just talked about how it's encouraged them. And by the way, I know there have been companies who have gotten the book and given it to all their employees and said, let's have a conversation about this. I mean, it's. It starts like you said, just saying, this is. This is important. And what we found is I've had so many leaders who told me when we helped them outside of work, they actually got better at work. Which makes sense.
- [47:56]
A
Yes.
- [47:56]
B
Versus the guy. I had a guy tell me one time, we tell our people to check their hearts at the door. Well, good. I mean, that is not going to work if you expect them to, you know, be on the way to school. They're screaming at each other, they're dropping them off. Little Johnny forgot his math problems. You know, I yelled at my wife on the way out the door. She's. I mean, it's like. And. And then I'm going to come in at work today, and I'm. But I'm gonna. I'm gonna leave all that. That's no way. I can't do that. So it. That's the integration of work and home. You.
- [48:26]
A
You can't do it, but you can. And I've seen it done with a rule book that's this big. And so you don't get anything special. You're gonna get a being doing a job. Yeah, that. Just do it. Just check your brain out at the door. Check your heart out at the door. Follow the rules. This rule book this big. Don't go outside the rules. But it's. But the places with the biggest rule book are the most miserable.
- [48:55]
B
The lack of engagement there is just. Yeah, and that's part of. You know, Gallup says that we're about 70% of the US workforce is disengaged. That's what's going on there. A lot of it. And, you know, Mark and I talked about this. It sounds like an employee problem we have, but it's actually a leadership problem. People don't leave organizations. They leave leaders. And if Our leaders don't understand this holistic approach to people development. I think it's now 30% of people are, are clinically mental health, stress, anxiety, depression, I mean it's gotten worse. And so we as leaders have to a go back to what you said earlier. We got to take care of ourselves and then we've got to create an environment where others can feel safe and cared for and developed. And if we can do that, it becomes such a competitive advantage in the workplace.
- [49:55]
A
It's a huge competitive advantage advantage because most, most people aren't there. Most companies aren't there.
- [49:59]
B
They're not thinking about it at all.
- [50:00]
A
I just, this is what going to construction. This is what I've really been thinking about safety and how to articulate this point. And I, I don't have it ironed out yet. I don't know how to articulate it at all. So this is all just my thought process right now. But all of the safety first stuff, I've just, I've come to resent it more and more and more and more and more. And I'm like, why am I so bothered by how all these companies have such a stress on safety? Like, isn't people going home to their families? Like, shouldn't I be cheering? And I am. But it's like they're using safety to feel and a painting with a very broad brush here to feel like we really are doing. We're really caring for people. We're really caring for people. But it's not at all, it's just wrapped in this. I mean it's all for the sake of compliance. It's not about care.
- [51:05]
B
Yeah.
- [51:06]
A
Because if it was about care, like I would hear divorce mentioned like once in a while. Once in a one year period, I would hear drugs mentioned. Once in a one year period, I'd hear alcohol mentioned once. Like. Yeah, I don't ever see it anywhere.
- [51:23]
B
Yeah, no, no.
- [51:24]
A
Where we're gonna, we're gonna, but we're gonna wear our hard hats and it's like, yeah, there's nothing even overhead. I don't even need a hard hat. But like how many people here in this meeting are divorced or going through.
- [51:35]
B
Divorce or addicted or addicted drinking every night?
- [51:39]
A
No, we don't talk about that.
- [51:41]
B
Yeah, you don't drink your way to high performance and you don't smoke your way to high performance and all that stuff. I mean, it's true. But yeah, it just seems taboo to talk about that. But we're going to talk about the hard hat and the way we Drive the forklift or the dozer or whatever we got going on. Yeah. We seem to have a disconnect there. And so we're just trying to do a little bit here to help people think about it and have a conversation about it. And, you know, we've had people that have come back and said, man, this has been life changing. Which is cool. I mean, that's. That's. That's the part that's fun.
- [52:12]
A
It's helpful for me, too, because I grew up. My parents divorced when I was like, 12 or so.
- [52:20]
B
Yeah.
- [52:20]
A
So I don't have a good model to follow.
- [52:24]
B
Yeah.
- [52:24]
A
I don't. I don't have a set of plans at all.
- [52:28]
B
Well, hopefully this will help.
- [52:30]
A
Well, yeah, but that. But that's. As an adult, that's what I've always been seeking. And especially in business, like, man, I almost want these business leaders to talk more about, like, their wives or relationship or kids or whatever, because it's like, all right, cool. That's business, this and that. And I've heard all that stuff before. But, like, you've been married for 38 years.
- [52:52]
B
Yeah.
- [52:53]
A
How have you done that? Like, can you explain that one to me? Because I think that one's more. Way more complicated.
- [52:58]
B
I think she's been really patient, you know, so it's. That's had a lot to do with it. No, I think you're right. I think if you can find people who are. This is true in business. This is true in any. Really any area of your life. Fitness, financially, your family, even your faith, whatever. If you can find somebody who's a little bit further down the road, that's what I've always tried to do is just. Who's a little bit ahead of me. I've learned so much from Mark. It's been great. Dan Webster is another guy that I've had an opportunity to just. He's about 10 years older than me, and I've been able to just continue to learn from these guys who are a little bit further. I remember when we first had kids, you know, we've got little babies. We're finding somebody with preschoolers who survived babies. And then we got preschoolers. We're trying to find somebody who's got them in school, and they seem like they've got it halfway together. Well, it turns out they're struggling, too, but they're able to. You're just able to glean stuff when you hang out with people who are just a little further down the road. So I think. I think you're Right. I love the idea of having, you know, somebody who's, who's been through the battles and, you know, they're still, they're still standing on the other side and they're going, okay. This is actually not. I mean, everybody talks about marriage. It's so hard. And it's, and it is hard, but it's just, it's, it's, it's honestly the best thing. If you get it right, it's just the best. And if you get it wrong, it can be the worst. I mean, it's just like anything else. And, and so I think it's so important to be thoughtful about it. And again, I said a strategy to win beyond work. It's like so many people are just sporadic in the way they think about it. I hope it turns out okay. And they don't really have a strategy to think about it. So that was really. Our heart was just trying to be purposeful in the way we think about it to give us something to focus on. And the love first and live last strategy, those fundamentals really are. They're the blocking and tackling of family life.
- [54:53]
A
Sure. It's interesting, you say you used parables too.
- [54:58]
B
We used. Yeah, it's a fable parable, however you want to say it, about a businessman. He owns a company and he's got three little girls and he ends up getting roped into. I won't give the story away, but his next door neighbor is an older guy who is a little league baseball coach for little guys and he's a volunteer. This is an older guy, but he happens to be the old coach. Has been coaching for about 30 years and he coached the business leader when he was a little boy. And so they're next door neighbors. And so this businessman gets roped into coaching. I want. Again, I won't give the story away, but he gets roped into coaching and he's, he's got his three little girls. He's never been around these little guys. And so anyway, meets another coach who ends up being sort of the guru of the thing and teaches him the principles. And I like the story, the parable because I'm a storyteller and I just love the. It just makes it more readable. It's easier to understand the principles in the context of a real business leader. So hopefully that'll, that'll be helpful.
- [56:06]
A
But you use the parable to teach the principles.
- [56:10]
B
Okay.
- [56:10]
A
Okay.
- [56:10]
B
And in the back again, there's, there's a, there's just 80 page kind of tactical how to, how to build. The blueprint is in the back. So, yeah, after the story, it's, it's all, it's all in the back there. So.
- [56:22]
A
But I've thought. So I have. And I'm reluctant to even say this. I've become a speaker, a public speaker.
- [56:31]
B
Yeah. Yeah, I heard you at Dirt or at Dirt World. Yeah, it was great.
- [56:34]
A
It was. I appreciate that.
- [56:36]
B
I sent you some pictures. It was fantastic.
- [56:37]
A
It wasn't. It's not. I've reluctantly done it. I still reluct. Well, I'm starting to get more.
- [56:45]
B
At your age, man. It's, it's. I mean, you're. It's great.
- [56:47]
A
But it, but it's, it's. It's probably the most complex skill that I've ever practiced.
- [56:56]
B
Yeah.
- [56:56]
A
Because you can't do it on your own.
- [56:58]
B
That's right.
- [56:59]
A
You've got to just do it in front of a bunch of people. You can only do so much on your own, which is hard. It's like speaking comedy. There's just a few things like that.
- [57:08]
B
I can't help you with a comedy. Yeah, yeah.
- [57:10]
A
But. Yeah, I can't help myself with comedy. But I've, I've been like. I'm past the point of just being terrified of it. And I'm into like the. How do I do it more and more effectively?
- [57:27]
B
Yeah.
- [57:27]
A
Part of it now. How do I really craft a message? And the parable concept, like the most effective books I've read, people, stories. People connect with stories. Again, going back to the Dale Carnegie thing. Yeah, that was the, that was. The whole training was using storytelling to teach leadership lessons. And so I've really leaned into that. And going back to New Testament. Mm.
- [57:56]
B
Jesus taught with parables all the time.
- [57:58]
A
That's all Jesus taught.
- [57:58]
B
Modern day stuff.
- [57:59]
A
Yeah, it's all parables.
- [58:01]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [58:02]
A
It's all stories.
- [58:03]
B
I'll say a couple things about the speaking thing, which will probably take us in a different direction. But. And obviously I've spoken a lot. But I tell you something that's really helped me is a couple things that I've run across through the years that have really, I think just. I don't know, they made me a better speaker, but they've made me more aware of what I'm trying to do when I walk into a room. And I would say two things. Number one, I always try to start with the audience is the hero. It's not me, it's the audience. It's about the audience. And so I ask myself the question, what do I want them to know when they leave, what do I want them to do? Because I don't want them just know something, I want them to do something and what I want them to feel. I do want them to feel some things. I want them to feel accountable maybe or challenged or inspired or motivated. I mean I need to decide what do I want them to feel. And I want to make sure I craft that talk to that. But I heard something else that was really, it's really helped me is a talk is not about something. A talk is for someone. It's the same principle but it's the idea of. It's not about what I'm saying, it's who is this for sure. And if I can really focus on that, I think that'll. That always helps us be better. And so yeah, there's nothing. And I think you did great. It was fun. So you'll keep getting better as you go. It's. You'll learn more and more. It's fun. And I think the more you, you know, I. Mark is a big photographer and, and he makes great pictures. And so I was talking to him about how do you make such good pictures? And he said the secret to making good pictures is you got to make a lot of pictures. So I think that, I think the secret to making a good talk is you got to make a lot of talks. You know, at some point it does become less cumbersome on the, you know, the nerves and all that stuff. And you just become like, I'm here to help these people. And if you get there, it's, it's.
- [60:01]
A
So fun like for this, for good pictures. One, it's taking a ton of pictures. I mean I've taken hundreds.
- [60:07]
B
The same thing with the talk man, it's.
- [60:09]
A
But well, but, but two, you have to love what you're taking pictures of.
- [60:12]
B
Yeah, that's good.
- [60:13]
A
I think if you don't, if you're not excited or love what you're pointing a camera at or the story you're.
- [60:20]
B
Telling, well, think about all the videos you've done. I mean you just. Those become second. It's like breathing for you now. You don't have to think about that. And I think the same thing can happen as you continue to speak and.
- [60:30]
A
But even you'll have more and more.
- [60:31]
B
And by the way, I heard you also in when we were at wyotech, you did a little bit of a talk there.
- [60:39]
A
That was ad lib.
- [60:40]
B
It wasn't a big keynote or anything but yeah, it was, but it was good.
- [60:43]
A
I mean it's I haven't done as much of that, but I'm trying to just trust myself.
- [60:49]
B
Yeah, too.
- [60:50]
A
Because you really have to just trust yourself.
- [60:51]
B
You do, you really do.
- [60:53]
A
But, but, but going back to the speaking principles too, it's not about you, it's about the audience. Like again, that's leadership.
- [61:01]
B
No, same thing.
- [61:03]
A
That's, that's, that's.
- [61:04]
B
I was talking, I was talking to a guy who's actually connected. He was at Summit, actually, we were doing a phone call afterwards and he said he was talking about how he had struggled in his career at one point because he was trying to. He said, I felt like there was, I was trying to get across the bridge to the other side and prove myself and all this kind of stuff. And I realized that I had the wrong goal. It wasn't to get the other side. My goal should have been to be the bridge. This idea of, to help other people get to the other side. And I think when we show up that way and we have that mindset in a talk, in a video, in a podcast, whatever we're doing, we keep thinking about who are we potentially going to help here. Sure, it can't do anything but help.
- [61:50]
A
It's, but it's you, you, you have to, at least I, you have to constantly remind yourself of that. I feel like for sure, like I, I might, I might have talked about it before, but we, like even earlier this year or whenever we've got into financial trouble where. And everybody says behind closed doors, oh yeah, we've been there, but no one talks about it. But yeah, we've been in, you know, some periods where it's like, how much do we need for payroll next week?
- [62:20]
B
Exactly.
- [62:21]
A
More times than I would like to admit it sucks. It's not fun at all. But we've always figured it out. We'll continue to figure it out. I have no doubt. We didn't, we're not, we didn't come this far to come as far. But in those periods I'll sometimes find myself wandering off into self preservation mode. Like, well, you know, worst case scenario, this thing does implode and okay, you know, where, where could I live? And who can I call? And oh, I could probably get this job over here. And I've had to like catch myself going down the path. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like you're missing the whole point. And if you're thinking about this, yeah, you deserve for that to happen because you're making it all about you, you dummy. And I'll like Kind of proverb, like mentally, like slap myself around, like, hey, this isn't about you, this is about everybody else. So just focus on everybody else, you'll be fine. But I have to catch myself.
- [63:30]
B
Well, and I think, you know, if I could speak into it just a second, I think it could, obviously, I mean, I can only imagine as a 30. What are you, 30? Yeah, 30. Okay. Just the maturity to even say what you just said and to like understand that. But to carry the mantle of leadership is heavy. I mean, what's the old. Was it Shakespeare who said, heavy is the head that wears the crown? It is heavy. It really is. There's nothing easy about it and I think even Heavier when you're 30, trying to take care of all these families and all this stuff. And so I understand the weightiness of that. But, yeah, I mean, as leaders, at some point we burned the ships and we're like, this is what we're doing. And I'm going to, I'm going to make sure that on my watch, this is, is, is improving and going to a better place, going toward the vision, honestly. And, and, and so I think you're doing a remarkable job to keep, keep all that in perspective as a 30 year old. I just, I remember where I was at 30 and it was, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't, I didn't have the responsibility probably at that point that you do. So I appreciate you're doing great.
- [64:41]
A
Well, even, even that though, I don't, I don't view like, sure, do it, do it. I do the work. Yes, I do the work. I, I read every day, I write every day. I schedule time. Like, I'll have another week coming up, end of the year or it's just me.
- [64:57]
B
Yeah.
- [64:57]
A
In Savannah, Georgia. I just walk around.
- [64:59]
B
That's good.
- [65:00]
A
And I just think I, so I have done the work, but, but also I very much believe that I've been put in this position for a reason.
- [65:08]
B
Yeah.
- [65:08]
A
Like I, it's not me. At the same time, like, I'm doing my part, I'm fulfilling my obligation. But I don't believe for a moment I'm here because of me, if that makes sense.
- [65:22]
B
Yeah.
- [65:23]
A
And so I like the quote that always comes back to my mind is Abraham Maslow, A painter must paint, a writer must write. You know, something along those lines.
- [65:33]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [65:33]
A
What a man can be, he must be.
- [65:35]
B
Yeah.
- [65:36]
A
I think, I think that's the job of everybody. You have to become what you can become. Most people don't do that because it's it's hard, but I have this real strong conviction that, like, I am on the path that I should be on. I just need to have the. I just need to just stay on it.
- [66:02]
B
Yeah.
- [66:03]
A
That's all I need to do.
- [66:04]
B
Yeah.
- [66:05]
A
Which again, some days are easier than others.
- [66:07]
B
Oh, yeah, that's right.
- [66:08]
A
But that's. I feel like that's just my job.
- [66:11]
B
Yeah, I love that mindset. I think that's cool.
- [66:17]
A
You. You've mentioned Mark a few times as well.
- [66:20]
B
Yeah.
- [66:21]
A
So you have this book and then you have the lead every day.
- [66:24]
B
Yeah, we did. We did lead every day alongside Mark. Yeah, Mark was. I think he's been on your show before. Yeah, he's been. Been a guest and he spoke at Dirt World as well. But Mark was. He did leadership development at Chick Fil A for. He was there 40 something years. We started out in the mailroom and ended up in leadership development over all that. And so about 15 years ago, we partnered together. I started doing events and training and all kinds of stuff to help their team and that organization. And then Mark and I started writing together. And so our Lead Every Day book here is really a culmination of all that work we've done over the last 10 years anyway. And we basically go back to the scope and sequence where we started. We said there needs to be a. We're calling it an operating system, trying to modernize the language. If you think about your phone, it's got an OS in it. It's working behind the scenes all the time. That OS keeps your phone updated. It helps it handle the apps, the phone calls, the text, whatever comes in, it's all there happening. And the way we thought about the leadership operating system is most people just really don't have a way. I mean, they know leadership's important, but they don't know how. Nobody's ever taught them. They're really good at moving dirt. But they'll call us and say, we've got now 100 employees and how do we organize all this? And how do we, you know, hold people accountable and manage people and all that stuff? And so we. We spend our time really working with those kind of companies. And so we thought, well, let's put this in. Let's put it into a book form. And basically there are three disciplines, we think that we say, three essential disciplines to unleash the passion and performance of everyone around you. These three disciplines become a better leader, to improve team performance and to strengthen the organization. And those really, as simple as we can say, it's how do you get better? How do you build better teams? And then ultimately how do you build an aligned high performance organization that is executing at its potential? And when we define execution, it's not just like let's make sure we're making more money or whatever. It's everybody on the payroll. We commit to doing the right thing the right way every time. And, and I think that mindset is, is, and, and you think about high performance organizations, this is what happens.
- [69:01]
A
But the order of operations, like you said, is important. I want a high performing organization. Well, you need high performing teams. How do I get high performing teams?
- [69:11]
B
You be a high performing leader.
- [69:13]
A
You.
- [69:13]
B
Yes. It goes back to what we talked about earlier. And most leaders want to just talk about the organization. And we say, Mark and I talk about this in the book. We say that's like the gymnast who says, I just want to do the dismount. You know, I'm sure it's fun to fly through the air and stick the landing, but if she doesn't understand that the energy and momentum of the entire routine is what propels her to stick the landing, she'll leave points on the table. And in the same way, if we don't understand the importance of leadership and alignment and engagement and all those things that the team that precede the execution, we will never reach our potential as an organization either. So we'll pause there. But we want to make sure that we're not just focused on executing. We got to have all that stuff in place. It really does start with you as a leader.
- [70:04]
A
So when it comes from a leadership standpoint, you go to work with a company. See, construction is really interesting because I think it's one of the only places with the American dream still alive and somewhat. Well, you can have a guy that buys a dump truck, buys a backhoe, is really good at digging holes, end up with 200 people within a five to 10 year period, you know, 250 people or whatever it is. I've seen it happen many times over. The problem for them becomes though that they have become, they've, they've grown because they're the best at digging holes. And I'm using holes as like the example, but paving roads, putting pipe in the ground, etc. But now their job, they don't, they haven't done, they don't dig a single hole anymore. They just manage an organization. Ideally they could lead an organization, but it's a skill set that they don't have and it's not their fault, but they better develop it. Or else it's going to wallop or they're just going to have a miserable existence. And I know those people too. So where. When you come into an organization, one them bringing you in is already an indication that they want to get better.
- [71:21]
B
That's right.
- [71:21]
A
That their mindset's already. So you're not like, at least from the top, you have buy in typically.
- [71:28]
B
Typically, yeah. Typically the owner or the president or somebody in that company. HR sometimes. But they'll say, we need to have a development process for people. But really what they're saying is we need more leaders. You know, if you have enough leaders, you can do pretty much anything. If you don't have a leader, though, you're just going to end up with an extra job. And most people are already overworked. And so you got to have leaders to help you be able to scale what it is you're trying to do.
- [71:56]
A
So where do you start with a company like that?
- [71:58]
B
Well, it's interesting. I was having a conversation with a plumbing company. We were doing some work with a plumbing company. And this company, it's a great company now, I mean, they're doing multi millions of dollars and got about 50 people on the team. And I was talking to the guy, I said, how did you get to where you are? How do you get to 50? Go back to your scenario. You're good at digging a hole. And then next thing you know, you got 50 people, 100 people, 200 people. How did this happen? And this was great. This leader said, I made a decision one day, basically. He said, I had three of my buddies that were helping me, and my wife was taking orders and the phone calls. And there were four of us that were, you know, putting toilets in and cleaning pipes, you know, all that kind of fixing pipes. And he said, and it was just driving us crazy. We couldn't grow beyond every year. Just kind of. We were stuck. And he said, I made a decision to empty my truck. And I said, tell me more about that. And he said, I literally went home one day and I. And I love my work truck. It was great. And he said, but I. But I just. I just basically got to a point where I thought, I'm going to have to work on my business, not in my business. Somebody's got to lead this. We're never going to get past four of us if we can't, you know, have some leadership here. And he said, so I literally packed a little emergency bag. I gave myself permission. If there's an emergency, I can have my favorite Three or four tools, my wrench or whatever, you know, and I put it in my, in my car. He said, I'm not even gonna drive the truck, I'm driving the car. And I had to, I had to literally not drive the truck for a few weeks just to, you know, make myself reminded I'm a leader here. And this was very early on in his business. And he, he said it just, the thing just began to explode when I did that. He said, we started, we started having more people call us and we put on another technician. And the next thing you know, he said, we started doing all these job sites that were bigger. And he said it just happened because I was willing to let go of some stuff. And so I think what happens for us is people get to that point where they realize I can either lead it myself, build all the leadership, all that stuff, or we can partner with somebody who specializes in this. And so that's what we do. I mean, it's like if somebody's listening and they're passionate about leadership development and that's what they love, that's great. But if they're really good at dirt and they're really good at all the stuff that they've known for a long time and they need a partner that they can outsource some of that to, they call us and we end up doing. Typically we'll start out with just a meeting with their leaders or a workshop for a day, and then that most of the time turns into a year long agreement or multi year agreement. We've got a company, we've got an exterminator company that we work with, I think we're in year 11 with. And so we do one or two events for them a year. It's nothing crazy, but we have companies that we work with every month. And so again, it's based on what the client needs, not what we're. If we can add value, we'll do that. And if they're willing to invest in their people, we think it's the best money they ever spend. A lot of them tell us this is, I mean, we're obviously we're not real cheap, but it's it. We have so many people tell us this is the best money we've ever spent. Our people are getting better, which means our business gets better. And so I want anybody that works with us to think that that is the best money we ever spent.
- [75:35]
A
Well, I don't doubt that at all. I think though, where, like in that situation, where my mind goes, is the guy quote Unquote, thinks there's only one. There's also this myth that there's all always. There's. There's also this one direction that I'm the one. I'm the plumber. I'm doing best. So to grow, I can't do it anymore. And it's like, well, I. I feel like oftentimes, too, people don't ask themselves why they want to go do something or why they want to grow. They just end up like, well, I have to grow. It's like, I've also seen it where these are some of the leaders I respect the most. There's a guy in. I talk about him all the time. I want to get him. He's one of the guys I want to get on the podcast next year. Probably gonna have to go travel to him, though. He's not gonna come to me. Larry Ames, for example, he's in the field every day. He's got hundreds of people working at the company, but he's brought in people to lead the company.
- [76:34]
B
That's great.
- [76:34]
A
So he's not. He's not sitting there. He's never tried to make himself into something he's not. At the same time, he's. He started a business to move dirt. That was it. And he's always done that, which I have a lot of respect for. And then he's. He's brought other more talented people on in different ways, from a leadership standpoint and operations standpoint to lead the company. And he's out in the field every. Every day. So. But that only works if you allow others to lead as well. But that. That makes him a great leader, because that's right. He's leading in the way he should, by example, by, like, from the front lines, which I think is the coolest damn thing.
- [77:15]
B
Yeah, that's cool. I like also maybe a hybrid of those two, you know, where you either do it or you delegate it. I think it's also. There's. There's the person who's. The technician at heart. They love to get in the field. They love to get in the dirt. That's great. But I don't have to take off my leader hat when I do that. I can come and help you on the job site and be checking in with everybody and all that stuff, and I can even get on the dozer some. That's fantastic. No problem there. But if all I'm doing is doing work and nobody's leading now, we're going to be struggling at some point. It's not going to happen. And so I just want to make sure that if I'm helping my team, that I can still be coaching and training and reminding them and holding them accountable and challenging them. And all the stuff that we need to be talking about, casting, vision, talking about culture, all those things can be a part of our conversation as opposed to just talking about the dirt. If I'm the leader, I can't take off the leader hat, even when I get in a technical situation.
- [78:23]
A
Yeah. It's going back to the data comment I made earlier, too. I think I've been the beneficiary of just a lot of data as well, because of the unique position I occupy. I get to see a lot of leaders, and I get to see leadership done a thousand different ways. And look at each.
- [78:41]
B
You're learning every time you do.
- [78:43]
A
Yeah. And like. And there's. There's pros and cons to each because there's no one. Right style. There's no one. I think that's the. That's the. That's the. Not the complexity of it, but, like, there's core leadership principles. But then it also has to align with who you are as an individual. And so each leader is different, and each effective leader is totally different. There's not like one just Superman leader. This is. This is the model. This will work for everybody. Even with speaking and with cadence. And like, to your point earlier as well, there's. People have different. There's a different cadence. There's. There's different ways people. People speak. And. And it's been really interesting to just study leadership done in so many different ways and so many different applications, because I feel like it's.
- [79:34]
B
You're getting a master's degree in the thing, man. As you go.
- [79:36]
A
Yeah.
- [79:37]
B
Or PhD. Really?
- [79:38]
A
Yes. Yes.
- [79:39]
B
It's so good.
- [79:39]
A
Yeah. It's allowed me to. Yeah. I think progress a little faster than. Than usual.
- [79:43]
B
That's good. That's so good.
- [79:45]
A
But that. I think that's where people struggle, too, is they. They only have. That's what's cool about today's world is even 10 years ago, you only really had the people around you.
- [79:56]
B
Right now. You have so much access.
- [79:58]
A
Oh, the access is amazing.
- [80:00]
B
It is.
- [80:01]
A
It's incredible. It's like I can sit there and listen to you and Mark.
- [80:03]
B
Yeah.
- [80:04]
A
Hundreds of times over.
- [80:05]
B
Yeah. That's great.
- [80:05]
A
I don't ever have to actually talk to you. I don't have to pay you.
- [80:09]
B
That's right.
- [80:09]
A
Nothing.
- [80:10]
B
That's right.
- [80:10]
A
I can just go get it. Or I can buy a book. For 20 bucks or whatever it is.
- [80:14]
B
That's just so. I mean, I read all the time. I'm always looking at those books and listening to podcasts and I mean. Yeah, you're exactly right. It's great.
- [80:22]
A
Yeah.
- [80:22]
B
Going to conferences.
- [80:24]
A
Yes. But when people, it's like, do you read? No, I don't really read. What do you mean you don't read?
- [80:30]
B
Like, how can you not read? How do you, how do you lead a company?
- [80:33]
A
Well, but how do you do anything? Like, without. Yeah. At least educating yourself.
- [80:38]
B
Exactly.
- [80:39]
A
About something. But yeah, the, the access now is, especially as a young leader, too. I think that's another thing. People, when they're young, they're always trying to find a mentor. It's like, no, don't throw all that out the window, dude. You don't need one anymore. Just find people you resonate with. I think.
- [80:55]
B
Yeah. And I think, I think you're better off. Exactly. I think you're better off, though, having a plan than you are. I'm all for mentoring. It's great. But, but a plan is, it helps me identify what are the areas that I want to learn. And, and if I want to learn about communication, then I'm going to go follow this guy who's really great at communication.
- [81:14]
A
Yes.
- [81:14]
B
If I want to learn about planning, find somebody who's really great at playing. I mean, it's like there's a podcast on everything these days. It's like, it's, there's no end to what you do have access to. And that's the one thing if I, you know, it's fun to, it's fun to think about when we were born and where we were born and all that. I mean, I really, you know, I do think if we were supposed to be, you know, 12th century Egyptians, we would have been, but we weren't. We're here now. But that's the thing that I'm, I'm excited for you and the next generation of guys is that you have so much access now. We didn't have that. You know, I don't want to sound like the old guy, but all of a sudden I am the old guy at 60 now. And as I look back, how amazing would it have been to have all that access that you have now? And so it's just going to get better and better. And you're, you're helping create the content now for those future generations as well. That's fun to me. I mean, that, that, that is fun.
- [82:06]
A
Well, it's. But, and it's exciting to See where it's going to go. Because even, like sports, how fast sports have progressed over the past and they're.
- [82:13]
B
Changing 10 to 20 years.
- [82:14]
A
Yeah. But it's largely because of information.
- [82:17]
B
Yeah. No, that's right.
- [82:18]
A
It's crazy.
- [82:19]
B
That's right.
- [82:19]
A
These. And now these kids coming up, they get to see how the best in the world train, train what they eat for breakfast. Amazing how they do recovery. Like the access you have now is, is, is just unbelievable. You can hang out with them at their house via their social media, you know.
- [82:36]
B
Yeah.
- [82:37]
A
Stories or whatever. Their lives, pretty wild. It's incredible.
- [82:40]
B
Yeah, just, just that. But.
- [82:41]
A
But I think the mentor thing too is another way of shirking responsibility. I see that a lot. Like I'm waiting for the right person to find me and then I'm gonna get on with it. Yeah, that's not how it works.
- [82:54]
B
Yeah, that's right. You gotta go seek it out.
- [82:57]
A
That's good. I love that. Yeah. You've got a. And if you're waiting for somebody to give you a plan, good luck. Yeah, you can't wait.
- [83:06]
B
I think you have to own your own growth. I mean, I really do. I just, I mean, yeah, you're, you're responsible for that. And if you, if you take that seriously, it becomes again, such a competitive advantage and separates you from 99% of people who are just kind of going through the motions and, you know, hoping their life will turn out okay.
- [83:25]
A
After working with all these companies. What's like a rookie mistake that you see?
- [83:33]
B
I think one of the things that I see people think is that they can hire away their problem. You know, they can hire us and that'll make all their problems go away. They still have to do the work. You still have to, you know, we're going to be there when we're there, but it's. And we're highly actionable on the things that we teach and talk about is we don't want to just go in and inspire people for a day. That's great. But I'm much more concerned about what's happening 30 days after we leave. And the boots on the ground part. You still got to have people who champion what we talk about. And there has to be that process. We'll give them the framework. But I think if you think just hiring somebody for a day will change our company, it's, you know, it's pop dream. It's. It's gotta, you gotta, you gotta put work in.
- [84:22]
A
We. It's interesting you say that when we were back with the Marketing and branding work we would do, we'd get called by these construction companies. They started to catch on to branding, like, well, to, you know, attract next generation pride. We've got to, we gotta be looking good. But we would always require top brass to be involved in the process. If they weren't involved in the process, we weren't interested. Because if whoever was really calling the shots at the end of the day wasn't involved, there was a high likelihood of it being a total failure. It always started with typically one person and if they weren't all in, sorry, yeah, we can't help you. It's not. You can spend all this money and we can do all this work, but it's just not going to work. And that was. I think we're still learning that with our daily training and development. If. If or Dirt World, like if leadership's not bought in.
- [85:23]
B
Yeah, it doesn't happen.
- [85:25]
A
It doesn't happen.
- [85:25]
B
Not like it could.
- [85:26]
A
Yeah, no, I, the.
- [85:29]
B
Well, it always does go back to the leader. You're exactly right.
- [85:32]
A
It always comes back.
- [85:33]
B
Yes. And, and honestly it's job security for us. I mean we just like there's so much leadership out there. I see that people just don't really value how important it is and then they end up in a bad place. And so it's, you know, it's, I think all of us know and I've said it earlier in the conversation, but when you have good leadership in place, things generally are going to be really good. And when you don't, it's just not going to turn out the way you want it. I mean it really doesn't. So it does come back to, to proper leadership.
- [86:09]
A
How has it been leading children? Is it similar principles?
- [86:17]
B
I think there are principles that are the same. Yeah. I really do. And I think my wife was a fifth grade teacher back in the day and she says we're all just taller fifth graders. I mean really, there's a lot of it. Don't we all need to be held accountable? Don't we all need to be. We know what the rules are. We need, we need to have accountability. We need to have structure. We need to have, you know, the directions a lot of times and I have leaders so many times it's crazy. You'll get with somebody who has 100 million dollar company and they'll literally tell us, just tell us what to do. You know, it's kind of like, how do you not know what to do? You got a hundred million dollar company and yet so many times we are that way. We just need an instruction manual a little bit. And so, yeah, I think, you know, I don't want to. They're not our children. The people that we work with are not our children. But I think in the same way, we need to understand that people aren't looking for some kind of rocket science. They just need a simple down to earth, this works. This is the way you treat people. This is the way you treat business. And if we can explain that and help people have best practices to practice it themselves. Again, Mark and I say all the time, we say in the book, you practice your way to high performance. I believe that. I mean, I just think it's like you're speaking, you're talking about. You just keep getting better because you keep speaking more. And your videos are great because you've done a lot of videos and Mark's pictures are great because he's taken a lot of pictures, all that stuff. There's a principle there that's true. You know, if it's timetables for a third grader or if it's speaking for a 30 year old, it's the same thing. And it really does come back to those reps in that practice.
- [87:58]
A
What I found though, it comes back to the reps, but then it also comes back to grading yourself.
- [88:03]
B
Oh, yeah. And it's evaluated experience. It's not.
- [88:06]
A
Yes, exactly.
- [88:06]
B
It's not just experience, but you're exactly right.
- [88:08]
A
Something. A habit I've picked up now for, since almost probably since I started the company was writing every day.
- [88:16]
B
That's so.
- [88:17]
A
It's not very much though. People hear that. Like, I don't have time for that. No, it takes me five minutes. I have a notebook about the size of like a normal book. And my rule is fill one page.
- [88:27]
B
That's awesome.
- [88:28]
A
And it's like, what do you write about? I have one rule. It's just fill the page.
- [88:34]
B
That's good.
- [88:34]
A
And so it'll be, I had this great conversation today or I traveled so and so.
- [88:40]
B
Or I saw a quote or I've read whatever.
- [88:42]
A
Yeah. It could be simple stuff or it could be, man, I had this conversation and I did a shit job. And this is why X, Y, Z. But it's. It's forced reflection. Yeah. And I think people, you can go day to day to day, week to week to week, month to month, year to year without that mechanism to really grade yourself.
- [89:03]
B
We don't think about our lives.
- [89:04]
A
Yeah.
- [89:05]
B
It's like the. So I grew up in a little town in north Georgia and There's a creek behind our house. And you could go and you could take the, you know, you take a glass, like, I've got my glass here. If people are watching online and if you fill that up with that creek water, it would be murky looking, but if you set it down on the table after a few minutes, it would just begin to settle down and there'd be clarity at the top. And I think that writing you're talking about or reading or meditating, whatever, fill in your blank, however you want to do that. But when you have that time, it just lets the river water of your life just settle and there becomes more clarity. And I say to leaders all the time, I think if the vision, by the way, most people's vision does get fuzzy because we're going so fast, it's like driving fast down the road. You can go so fast you can miss your exit because it just gets all fuzzy. I think if the vision is fuzzy to you, it's probably blurry. To the people who are following you, they're not going to see it as clearly as you do. And if you can't see it clearly, they're really going to struggle. So I think there's so much in what you're saying there that just to have that, that process, that discipline in your case where you're saying, I'm going to write every day, what are you writing about? Doesn't matter. It just gives me a chance to let things settle and me to be more purposeful in the way I think and lead. It's just going to set you up for success. So I love that. I think that's great.
- [90:29]
A
But that like going to leadership from a tactical standpoint, I feel like so many leaders are missing the ability to write, the ability to speak, the ability to articulate a thought clearly. Like that's part of the reason why I do this. It's very selfish.
- [90:45]
B
Yeah, no, I think it's great.
- [90:46]
A
It allows me to play with my thoughts, it allows me to have these conversations I wouldn't have otherwise and become a better speaker, become a better question.
- [90:54]
B
Ask well and I'll warn the listeners this will become harder to do because of AI. It's like we'll just let somebody else think for us. No.
- [91:04]
A
Yes.
- [91:04]
B
I think what you're talking about is so important that we put our rear end in a chair and we just go, I'm going to spend five minutes and I'm going to think today I'm going to write today, I'm going to process. Today I'm going to assess today. However, again, you get to cheat. There's 10,000 ways to do it. But I think it's such an important discipline.
- [91:21]
A
Well, even just. I've even thought recently about creating an original thought. That's hard. That's hard.
- [91:30]
B
There's nothing new under the sun.
- [91:32]
A
That's something a lot of people can't do because it. It takes a lot of time and energy and thought.
- [91:40]
B
Yeah.
- [91:41]
A
To think of original thoughts. And so, yeah, if you look back.
- [91:45]
B
At all the people who have made a difference in the world in the past, I mean, this is documented. You can go back to Churchill and I mean Lincoln. I mean, they all had a disciplined approach to the idea of margin. They had time to think and assess and create built into their calendar. And it goes back to what we're talking about. The noise versus the quiet. I think we've got a huge opportunity as leaders to make things better for ourselves, our teams and our organization. Even our family, if we will have some. I'll call it alone time. I hesitate to say that because I have so many leaders that tell me it's lonely at the top. That's not what I'm talking about. It's only lonely, by the way. It's only lonely at the top if you go to the top by yourself. The goal's not to get to the top. The goal is to get to the top together. But there is time when we need to spend alone. And we did a. It's in the book. I can't remember the exact. I think it was 29%. They took a group of. Harvard. Harvard did a study of CEOs, and they followed them, I think, for 12 years. And they found out that they spend about 29% of their time alone. And so we say, because people ask us, well, how much time do I have to spend alone? The bigger your hopes, the bigger your dreams, the bigger your aspirations, the more time you're probably going to need to think and to create and to reflect. And so I can't answer that for you. But we say just start with an hour. I mean, pick an hour sometime in the next month, put it on your schedule and choose your two or three biggest challenges and sit down and think about them or write about them and see what happens. I don't see how we can't get a little bit more purposeful and focused by spending that kind of disciplined time.
- [93:43]
A
Yeah, I schedule it quarterly a week. Typically, I call Think Week, and I go to Savannah, Georgia.
- [93:53]
B
That's awesome.
- [93:54]
A
And it's nice having A place too.
- [93:56]
B
You go to the same place pretty much every day.
- [93:58]
A
Same place. I have the same routine. It's all the same.
- [94:01]
B
That's great.
- [94:01]
A
And when I. Once I get there, I can picture it in my head as I'm in the Uber because I don't rent a car, I have to walk everywhere. But as I'm in the Uber from the airport, since it's far away and I'm getting into town, my body just my.
- [94:16]
B
It's almost like a decompress changes. Yeah.
- [94:18]
A
Yeah. But it. But it takes me the first 24 hours. Pretty uncomfortable. Even 48 hours.
- [94:25]
B
Pretty uncomfortable because it's. We're so rattled out. Right. I mean, it's just stuff just going on all the time and we're traveling everywh and got stuff going on.
- [94:32]
A
Yeah, yeah. I'm just.
- [94:35]
B
It's that creek water settling down and it never goes away. It's still in the bottom. There's going to be that sludge when you do the glass. The way I was describing, we can't completely. By the way, a week probably would help it get even better.
- [94:47]
A
Yes.
- [94:48]
B
But there's still going to be those gnawing things. But I think it's so tempting when we get in that think time to pull my phone out and to scroll my social media or to check my email or who texted me. I'm talking about disconnecting. Maybe a legal pad. Depends all you get. And you can look out a window and other than that, it's just literally you and you. How do you deal with that? And I think if we would do more of that, it would be better.
- [95:13]
A
I think exercise is also that as well. Like, you know, last week I was swimming every day and I'd run in the morning and swim. But you can't. Can't listen to anything when you swim.
- [95:26]
B
Yeah.
- [95:26]
A
I mean you're gonna.
- [95:27]
B
That's right.
- [95:28]
A
Get those stupid underwater headphones now. But that's not the point. Like, the point is I just have to be bored for 30 minutes, 45 minutes, an hour.
- [95:36]
B
Yeah.
- [95:37]
A
Just going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And my mind goes in all these weird places, just random places and it. And I. And I always dread it beforehand. I'm just like, oh, I don't want to do this.
- [95:51]
B
And then afterwards you have, you have. May have some clarity. That's.
- [95:55]
A
Oh, it is so even 30 minutes in the pool.
- [95:58]
B
And I think 30 minutes is. Is an important thing that you just said there. 30 minutes. And I'll. I'll compare the water here. So 30 minutes of swimming, that may not be the best idea for all of our listeners here, but 30 minutes is the point. 30 minutes of just quiet and alone and thinking is you have challenges on your plate right now. I'm guessing everybody listening got a challenge or two that you could just use that 30 minutes. So it'd be so vital for you versus you think you're going to solve it in the shower. Well, that's not going to happen. What's that? Three, four minutes? I mean, you need that half hour. You need that hour. You need that maybe half day. You got something so big, you're going, I need a half a day. Or in your case, you're going, I'm taking a week, and I'm going to just go and I'm going to think about whatever I need to think about. And you say, what do I think about? I don't know. But I'm guessing you probably made a list over the last few weeks and you know what you're going to think about when you get there. And so I need to do some of that. I mean, I need. I need more of that. My wife and I just had an opportunity to be in a place. We traveled for a couple weeks, and we were the last. The last four nights of the thing. We literally just got us a place on the coast. We're looking out over the, you know, Mediterranean, and we just. There's nothing to do. I mean, there's nobody in town. It's just kind of. There's couple restaurants up. We, you know, we had food, but that was about it. And you're just sitting there on your porch. And I wrote and I thought and I read and I just. I just sat and I. And it was just kind of a reset here at what will be the end of the year, going into a new year. And I mean, I feel really great now, you know, but. But it wouldn't have happened if I'd have just, you know, gone with my normal schedule. It's. What is my point here? So huge.
- [97:44]
A
That's where people are always like, well, can you ever chill out? Like, yeah, no, I can. I have no problem. I actually love time on my own. Away. That's the most valuable time I have all year is. Is whenever I have time on my own with nothing going on, man. Some good stuff can. Europe's one of my favorite places because I do a lot of running and walking.
- [98:06]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [98:06]
A
Walking is one of.
- [98:07]
B
I love to walk, too. Yeah.
- [98:09]
A
Because you don't have to just sit there.
- [98:11]
B
That's right.
- [98:11]
A
Stare at a wall.
- [98:12]
B
You can move. And.
- [98:13]
A
Yeah. You know, movement for me is really.
- [98:15]
B
Well, it's good for your body, too, in your mind and your heart and all that stuff. So, I mean. Yeah, I'm all on that as well.
- [98:19]
A
So I do some of my best thinking walking. And so just. Just walking around a foreign city. Yeah, man, there is. There is.
- [98:27]
B
Savannah is a great place to walk, too.
- [98:29]
A
That's why I go there. It's so good because just. Even. Even just seeing life around you. Yeah, you just. You just. You're so busy.
- [98:36]
B
That's right.
- [98:37]
A
That you don't see. You know, I'll walk through the park in Savannah, and it's like, man, there's a dog just playing over there. How good is that? And then, wow, there's some kids just being kids. How good is that?
- [98:47]
B
And then there's Gump on the bench, you know.
- [98:49]
A
Yes.
- [98:50]
B
The whole thing.
- [98:50]
A
But it's. You just start to acknowledge, like, the life happening around you, and it makes you. It almost makes you feel more human. Right.
- [98:58]
B
You're a part of something big. Yeah.
- [98:59]
A
Yes.
- [98:59]
B
Yeah. Yeah. That's good. I love that.
- [99:02]
A
Anyway, well, thanks for coming up here. I'm glad you're able to.
- [99:07]
B
We're able to hang out and. And thanks for lunch, too, by the way. That was good. Sure. We got to hang out there, but, yeah, this is. This is great. Thanks for all you do. And let me just say to first to you, I love your heart for this industry. I think it's so great that you care about, you know, what's going on, what's being built and what's being moved and all that stuff, and how to support the people. It ultimately is not about the dirt. It's about the people moving the dirt and the people who will live in the structures that are built on the dirt. And so I just. I love that. And as a young leader, I love that you are seeking to grow and get better. So I think that's really great. We always say your capacity to grow determines your capacity to lead. And I know you're going to have tremendous influence. And then let me say to the audience here, for everybody listening, I. Let's just commit to trying to make things better. I can't change the world, so to speak, but I can change my world. I can do something for the people around me. And I think if we get better, you know, my experience has been when a leader gets better, the people around that leader benefit. And so I would just encourage your leaders to do everything they can to continue to improve, to continue to be developing. Developing nations are made out of developing leaders. It's, it's just, it's just one by one. We just commit to developing this next year and I hope everybody listening, you know, has an incredible year. If you need anything from us, go to lead everyday.com infoead everyday.com you can, you can email us. Good. And the books are out there. Winning begins at home. If you want to give one to all your employees, you can get those through the, to the site or lead every day. I think it'll give you an operating system to, to unleash the performance of everybody on your team and that ultimately that's what it's about. If we can get everybody working together, we have an opportunity to not just move some dirt but really to move some lives in the right direction.
- [101:03]
A
Awesome. Well, Randy, thank you very much.
- [101:05]
B
Thank you.