Selling Tractors Since 1914 w/ William Hoeft of Ziegler Cat – DT 304

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dirt Talk by BuildWitt
Episode: Selling Tractors Since 1914 w/ William Hoeft of Ziegler Cat – DT 304
Release Date: January 16, 2025

---

Introduction

In Episode DT 304 of Dirt Talk by BuildWitt, host Aaron engages in an insightful conversation with William Hoeft, the owner of Ziegler Cat. This episode delves deep into the rich history of Ziegler Cat, its enduring relationship with Caterpillar, and the company's commitment to innovation, customer service, and employee culture.

---

Ziegler Cat: A Century-Long Legacy

Historical Foundations (00:55 - 02:26)
William Hoeft proudly shares that Ziegler Cat is celebrating 110 years since its inception in December 1914, founded by William Ziegler. Aaron remarks, “We're currently in our 110 years of existence” (00:55), highlighting Ziegler Cat as one of the oldest Caterpillar dealers. Hoeft explains that Ziegler Cat initially focused on distributing quality products to the construction, mining, and railroad industries, emphasizing “quality products and efficient and prompt service” as the company's core values (01:08).

Pre-Caterpillar Era (02:08 - 02:46)
Ziegler Cat predates the formation of Caterpillar in 1925, which was a merger between Best Tractor and Holt Manufacturing. Hoeft notes, “we're actually the oldest dealer that started off as a Best Tractor dealer” (02:26), underscoring the dealership’s foundational role even before Caterpillar became a household name in the industry.

---

The Ziegler Family and Leadership Transition

Generational Leadership (08:25 - 11:25)
Aaron inquires about the family's involvement, to which Hoeft recounts how his grandpa took over the business in the 1960s after serving as a district manager for Caterpillar. Hoeft shares, “he brought a lot of professionalism to the business” (08:25), leading to significant growth and a strong commitment to customer satisfaction. The leadership transition continued to his father in 1979, who emphasized culture and vision, further expanding Ziegler Cat’s footprint with multiple stores and hundreds of employees (10:20).

---

Caterpillar and Dealer Relationships

Unique Partnership (11:25 - 14:53)
Aaron asks Hoeft to elucidate the relationship between Caterpillar and its dealers. Hoeft passionately explains, “we’re more than car dealers; we create partnerships with customers” (13:25). He references a 1996 Harvard Business Review article titled "Making Dealers Your Partners," emphasizing the collaborative and supportive nature of the Caterpillar dealer network. Unlike typical car dealerships, Ziegler Cat focuses on a deep partnership that ensures customer success regardless of the number of machines they purchase.

Dealer Independence and Territory (14:53 - 15:40)
The discussion highlights that while dealers like Ziegler Cat are independent businesses, they operate within defined territories. Hoeft mentions, “there are only about 40 Caterpillar dealers in North America” (15:00), making each dealer's role critical in maintaining the brand’s strength and customer trust.

---

Innovation in Shop Management and Workwear

True Work Uniforms (24:03 - 31:49)
A significant portion of the conversation centers on Ziegler Cat’s initiative to introduce “True Work” uniforms in collaboration with Helly Hansen. Hoeft explains the importance of professional appearance in enhancing the dignity and confidence of technicians. “We want our people to feel confident and have that dignity” (25:41). They discuss the challenges of transitioning to new workwear, particularly in harsh weather conditions, and the positive reception of the new uniforms, especially the pants and winter gear designed for comfort and flexibility (29:13).

Shop Standards and Continuous Improvement (51:31 - 55:54)
Hoeft emphasizes the foundational importance of maintaining high standards in shop cleanliness and organization. “When you walk in our shop, it's gotta be totally clean and orderly” (51:40). This meticulous attention to detail not only reflects professionalism but also instills confidence in customers. Furthermore, Ziegler Cat has adopted a “continuous innovation” mindset, aiming for incremental improvements daily to enhance customer service and operational efficiency.

---

Culture, People, and Workforce Development

Employee Engagement and Culture (37:16 - 51:31)
Hoeft underscores that Ziegler Cat’s greatest asset is its people. He shares anecdotes about his experiences growing up in the company and the enduring influence of family leadership in fostering a culture of service and excellence. “Our biggest asset and our most important thing in our company is our people” (29:41). The company invests heavily in employee training, ensuring that every team member understands and embodies the mission: “to maximize uptime for our customers” (62:12).

Addressing Generational Challenges (63:02 - 75:53)
The conversation shifts to workforce development, particularly addressing the skills gap and the differing expectations of newer generations. Hoeft and Aaron discuss the necessity of training employees not just in technical abilities but also in essential soft skills like effective communication and customer interaction. Hoeft states, “every employee’s job contributes to maximizing uptime for the customer” (62:12), highlighting the integrated approach to employee roles and company objectives.

---

Balancing Tradition and Modernization

Maintaining Historical Values While Embracing Innovation (03:24 - 20:37)
Throughout the episode, Hoeft and Aaron discuss the delicate balance between preserving the company's century-old traditions and embracing modern innovations. Hoeft compares the company's evolution to historical shifts from horses to tractors and from manual hydraulics to automated systems, illustrating a consistent theme of innovation enhancing efficiency (03:24). They also explore how learning from other industries, such as automotive, informs their strategies for continuous improvement.

Future Outlook and Competitive Advantage (69:32 - 87:11)
Looking ahead, Hoeft elaborates on Ziegler Cat’s strategies to maintain a competitive edge. This includes expanding into diverse sectors like mining, power generation, forestry, and agriculture, ensuring stability despite market fluctuations. “Our territory is diversified, where you can handle the ups and downs” (70:30). Additionally, the emphasis on exceptional customer service and leveraging technology to enhance communication and efficiency remains central to their growth plans.

---

Personal Insights and Leadership Philosophy

Aaron and William’s Personal Journeys (37:24 - 86:35)
The latter part of the episode delves into the personal experiences of both Aaron and William. They discuss the importance of finding one's passion, the impact of mentorship, and the value of maintaining work-life balance while striving for professional excellence. Aaron reflects on his early connection to machinery and tools, while Hoeft shares his journey from summer jobs to leading Ziegler Cat, emphasizing the importance of employee satisfaction and high standards.

Mentorship and Employee Development (78:55 - 86:35)
Hoeft highlights the role of mentorship in developing a skilled and motivated workforce. “Creating an environment for employees to succeed, to use their God-given talents and to grow” (80:14). He stresses that investing in employees’ strengths while addressing their weaknesses is crucial for both individual and company success.

---

Conclusion

In this comprehensive discussion, William Hoeft of Ziegler Cat provides a profound look into the company's storied history, unwavering commitment to customer service, and innovative approaches to maintaining a motivated and skilled workforce. The episode underscores the importance of balancing tradition with modernization, fostering a strong company culture, and continuously striving for excellence. For anyone interested in the inner workings of a leading Caterpillar dealer and the principles that drive its success, Episode DT 304 of Dirt Talk offers invaluable insights.

---

Notable Quotes:

• 00:55 – Aaron: “We're currently in our 110 years of existence”
• 01:08 – William Hoeft: “quality products and efficient and prompt service”
• 13:25 – William Hoeft: “we’re more than car dealers; we create partnerships with customers”
• 25:41 – William Hoeft: “We want our people to feel confident and have that dignity”
• 51:40 – William Hoeft: “When you walk in our shop, it's gotta be totally clean and orderly”
• 62:12 – William Hoeft: “to maximize uptime for our customers”
• 70:30 – William Hoeft: “Our territory is diversified, where you can handle the ups and downs”

---

This episode serves as a testament to Ziegler Cat’s enduring legacy and its continuous evolution in the ever-changing Dirt World. Listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the intricate balance between maintaining heritage and embracing innovation, all while prioritizing people and customer success.

Transcript

[A]

As you know, Ariat is the official Dirt Talk podcast sponsor. And at this point, we've talked plenty about their footwear, their workwear. But now it is winter, and boy, is it cold. It was 17 degrees this morning. I had to warm the truck up. But just because it's cold does not mean the work stops. So to get the job done, you need the best, warmest workwear possible. And Ariat has a long list of outerwear, amazing jackets, pants and other goods available now. You can shop at their website, ariat.comdirttalk that is ariat.com Dirttalk is Ziegler1 of the older cat dealers?

[B]

Yeah, we're currently in our 110 years of existence.

[A]

So that's 1914.

[B]

Yeah. And then was that World War I right after. Right after, yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that's crazy to think. Yeah, we got a pretty neat history. The most interesting thing is the company was founded in December of 1914, so right before the year was over. But, yeah, it was founded by William Zigler, and we have no affiliation to him other than, you know, my grandpa knew him, worked for him. But he essentially started the company and saw a big opportunity to just basically become a distributor for products in the construction and mining industry and the railroad. At that time, things were factory direct, so the OEMs had their own sales teams that go out. But it was just a really slow process and then the service piece wasn't there. So he just saw a big opportunity not only to cater to the industries that had a lot of needs for these products, but also to be a distributor for them. But his big thing was quality products and efficient and prompt service and put customer satisfaction over profits. So, like, that kind of laid the foundation for us.

[A]

So how many. There's not that many cat dealers that are that. What, Yancy Quinn, maybe there's only a handful.

[B]

There are. And we're actually the oldest dealer that started off as a Best Tractor dealer. And so Best and Holt joined in 1925, create Cat. So we're kind of.

[A]

So you're around before Caterpillar?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. So it's some cool history. And then the other thing weird to think about, people don't really talk about this is we used to take horses in on trade, you know, because machines are trade, you know, they're replacing horses at the time, so. And we had a glue factory that.

[A]

Was pretty profitable for us that you still have to this day. Yeah.

[B]

But you just, you kind of lose sight of, you know, a hundred years ago where things were at that's amazing. Yeah. So these.

[A]

But that. That's what. That's what I always find confusing with people getting angry about certain innovations within the equipment space. Even, like, autonomous equipment, I find pretty fascinating and absolutely incredible. But it's like, this is what we've always done. We've always innovated. We've always done things differently. Like, I don't think people were getting upset at horse. Like, I'm sure the horse guys were upset about the tractor guys.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then the track. It's a better way to do it. So we're just gonna do it this way.

[B]

You didn't have to feed them.

[A]

Yeah. And then, like, when hydraulics came about, it's a better way to do it. And so I find it funny when people resist change going forward, because it's like, well, how do you think we got here? How did we get that machine? We've just. We've iterated for a century plus. Oh, yeah.

[B]

Well, even I'm reading Undaunted Courage right now, and I'm the slowest reader. But the big first portion of the book is about American history, and the way to transport things was through water. It's the only way they knew, and they couldn't even imagine, you know, a machine flying in the air, delivering things or trains and. But it's amazing how we kind of limit ourselves with, you know, what could be just because, you know, you're. You just. You just want to do things the way you've always done them.

[A]

It's interesting you guys are in Minnesota and some other places, but I think one of the most fascinating parts about Minnesota. Fascinating areas is the Mesabi Range.

[B]

So it's not our accent.

[A]

Yeah, no, it is. Like, last night, I was at the convenience store. You want a bag? Yeah, I'm definitely in Minnesota, but the. The Mesabi Range. So that's World War I, but you go to World War II, that. In a grand scheme of things, that little part of America was a large part of how World War II panned out.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Because that was where all the battleships, all the tanks, all the guns, everything. It's all made from steel. And that was where all of the iron ore was coming from for that war effort, which is. And once I connect those dots, I was like, whoa. Without this one little area in Minnesota, the war could have been a very different. Could have had a very different outcome.

[B]

Yeah, there's a lot of pride from that, too, up in that region, especially about that. Yeah, it's a big piece of our history, and I think it's neat. We're blessed in Minnesota with our minerals and the resources we have there. But they say there's the largest copper deposit. But the problem is it's next to the Boundary Waters and it's controversial, but we got some neat mines up there. I think it's one of the largest open pit taconite mines in the. In the world, I guess.

[A]

Yeah. I drove up South Australia. I went to go see that mine that's by the Boundary Waters that they're trying to get opened. It's not new Range. That's the other one.

[B]

Polymet.

[A]

Polymet, yeah. So I went to go see them, which was great. I went to their warehouse where they had all the core samples and it's like Indiana Jones. The lights start going on and it's just rows and I mean, I think they said hundreds of millions of dollars in core drilling, which is wild. But I went up there and then on my way back, I intentionally drove by the iron ore. Iron mines, because I'd never. I'd never been to that area before. And it was like, whoa. This is.

[B]

It's a whole other world.

[A]

It's like a whole different world.

[B]

I remember in high school, I was working summer jobs at Ziegler and mowing the lawns and, you know, we go to branches, do different projects, and we had to go plant some trees up at our mining store. And as you come down 169, the roads change now because Cliffs has moved their mine site. Actually got rid of the highway and built a huge bridge over an old existing mine site. But anyways, I'll never forget coming down the hill and seeing the mines. I was like, holy cow, what are these mountains? What is this place? It's just fascinating. And most people in Minnesota have no idea it's there. And then some older ones are even reclaimed and turned into mountain biking trails. Cool things like that. But people don't realize they're from old mining pits. So it's a. It's a neat part of our history. And, you know, there's, you know, the economy and the people up there really depend on it, but so does the nation. I mean, it's. It does provide a lot of steel for us. So.

[A]

Well, and World War II, going back to water, you just put it all to Duluth, which is. Then you go on to ship these freighters, then sail the Great Lakes to then the steel mills down in, like, Illinois, Indiana. You make the steel and then you take it to the shipbuilding yards on the Great Lakes as well. And then you Just sail it through the lock system out into the Atlantic and there you go, you've got your warship.

[B]

Yeah, it's just that easy. Yeah, it's pretty cool. It's pretty cool. You know another thing, Duluth, where that all that leaves from, on the far western side of Lake Superior. The Caterpillar looked like that to be one of their HQs back in the day. I can't remember the reasons why I didn't fully happen, but I went up.

[A]

There in winter, like.

[B]

Yeah, but that would have been pretty neat to have them in our backyard.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful up there. It's a really special place when it's warm, when it's cold.

[B]

Oh, people surf there in the winter. It's I believe. Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful. The seasons change and you got a lot of different landscape, but it's pretty neat part of our state.

[A]

So the dealer was started by Zigler, William Zigler. When did your family come into the picture?

[B]

So my grandpa served in World War II and then he went back, finished school and then started working for Caterpillar out of Illinois. And then he was a district manager for the Minnesota area. And so he called on Zigler and kind of how the story goes from what I've heard is basically he was enjoying his time at Caterpillar and I think his next assignment was to go overseas. But my grandma really wanted to stay in Minnesota and raise a family. And I think, you know, when you turn down a overseas assignment with Kat, it kind of stifles your career. So he got hired on as a controller at Ziglar. And at that time he and William Zigler didn't really get along or Bill Zigler. And apparently Bill Ziglar said, please tell me you didn't hire Len Hoft. And you know, because, you know, his job was to hold the dealer accountable and you know, all those things. So they kind of have a different type of relationship at that time. But anyways they became really close friends. And Bill Ziegler didn't have any continuity. He had a son in law and I think a daughter. But essentially he didn't have anyone that wanted to work in the business. So my grandpa saw an opportunity to continue to basically take over and buy him out with the support of Caterpillar. And so that period took quite a while. I think in the 60s it really started to ramp up and then the 70s had full control. But there was 120 shareholders at that time leading up to that. And then so my grandpa took over. And, you know, he brought a lot of professionalism to the business. I think we had about four to five stores at that time, 300 some employees. And they brought financial stability and just a strong commitment to the customer. He was known for really engaging with employees and customers, and I think that's a big part of his legacy. And then my dad took over in 79. I think his last. He had a lot of jobs on the service side, and then he actually worked for Barlow World for a couple years. My mom and him moved over to South Africa.

[A]

They're in South Africa?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I thought. Aren't they up in, like, Mongolia, too?

[B]

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. At one point, Wegener's up there, too, in Mongolia, and they must have bought them.

[A]

Yeah, I want to say they're in Mongolia as well.

[B]

Yeah, they're a pretty neat operation. Yeah.

[A]

We go to South Africa in May.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, that'd be a nice go to the mines. Yeah, that's gonna be a pretty neat experience. Yeah. But, you know, my dad learned a lot about. I think we call it job site solutions now, but measuring productivity, equipment and machines. And so he, you know, over there, he really learned how they do that with the mines, and then he brought that back to our dealership, that type of mindset. And obviously that really ties well into the Caterpillar value proposition, but. So that's kind of a neat thing. But my dad was all about culture and vision, and the company saw a lot of growth, not only with Caterpillar, with their products expanding, but also he always had a firm belief that if we're going to serve our customers, we got to give our people and the tools and the resources to serve them well. So as the customers grew in rural areas and communities grew, you know, we grew with them and added our. Expand our footprint with locations and people.

[A]

And can you. Can you explain the relationship in simple terms between Caterpillar and the dealers? Because I don't. I think people are still. They don't quite understand how it works. But I think Caterpillar is Caterpillar because of the dealers. And I think some people in Caterpillar might dispute that, but the dealer network that Caterpillar has is incredible. So how. How does.

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's. That's a great way to say it. It's incredible. I think, just to put it in simple terms, my grandpa said if he was traveling overseas and he got in trouble, he'd go to a fellow cat dealer first before the US Embassy. It's A tight group of people that are like minded. We know we feel we sell the best products and we're all committed to our customers. But if you really want to get a cool perspective on it, there's old article in 1996 it was a Harvard Business Review article with old CEO Don Fietz and it was called making dealers your partners. And it just articulates really well what that partnership is, the competitive advantage of the dealer network. And also it gives a glimpse in the 90s of what they're advertising more as product link but vision link and what connectivity will eventually do for machines and dealers. So it's a neat article, you got to check it out. But essentially some people compare us maybe to car dealers where we sell, you know, machines just like a car dealer will sell cars. But we feel we're more than that. I think you go to a car dealer, you don't always get that full partnership feeling. And with the dealers and the dealer network and our support with Caterpillar, we truly create these partnerships with customers whether they have one machine or 100. So what we do is we essentially help sell what we feel is the best products in the industry to customers. But then it's more than that. We help them get the most value out of it, help them have the most success with their business. So it's a. I like to look at it, it's like we're, we're the conduct between a phenomenal product and the customer success.

[A]

And it's a. And the dealers are all independent businesses. Yes, but within this. And they're all split up by territories within this territory. If I buy a brand new 395 excavator, it comes from you because you're the one that can, you're the only one that can sell that excavator in this territory. Yes, but you're separate from Caterpillar.

[B]

We are, yeah.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It's interesting and I have drawn the parallel between cat dealers and car dealers. But you're completely right. Car dealers are not very solutions focused.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They don't really care unless maybe I buy like a Rolls Royce or something. Maybe then I get a little bit better service. But.

[B]

Well, it's interesting on that point. You know, my dad also, he, you'll probably hear me talk about him a lot because he's, he's an important person to me. But yeah, he said, you know, always study the automotive industry because they're always a few steps ahead of us, you know, and it's interesting, it's true. Like right now we're big on retail and online sales and you look at the car industry, they're starting to do that. But you know, the competition's increased, there's margin compression. There's a lot of challenges that we're facing today that the automotive industry, if you read about them, what they're up to, faced even five to 10 years ago. There's a publication called the Digital Dealer and it just focuses on the automotive industry and it's pretty neat the things you see in there. And it's a little Isabel ahead of where we're at with stuff. So it was kind of good advice.

[A]

I guess with automotive though, it's far more fragmented. There's only. How many cat dealers are there in North America?

[B]

Like 40? Like 40, 41 I think.

[A]

Yeah. So it's not.

[B]

And we ranked number 41 as far as in line with our. We're the only ones start with a Z. North America. So we go alphabetic. Yeah.

[A]

Well, my last name's Whit obviously. So when it was time for my first name's Aaron. So if we were in grade school going by first name first like that, but if we were by last name, which is the usual thing, I was at the back of the line. No, it is interesting because it's not that many. And then you go abroad and it's like Australia for example. I think they have three dealers in.

[B]

The whole country and those are my favorite dealers. I've never been over there but they're just. You talk about innovation.

[A]

Never been to Australia?

[B]

No, not yet. Not old enough.

[A]

You need to go, you need to go see Westrack and Hastings, Deering and William. Like it's crazy. It's crazy.

[B]

Yeah. I'd love to compare how they do their mining and with what we do. And I think they're remote and I'm fascinated by their field service trucks over there. They got these little, I call them quarter ton trucks. They're little Ford Ranger sized trucks but they go out and work on mining equipment, forestry equipment. They're awesome. And here we got these big F550s running around with big boxes. Couple hundred thousand dollars trucks.

[A]

No. And it doesn't make sense to either group. The Australians are like, what do you drive? Like you have what? I mean, it'll be like. I remember, I distinctly remember we were out of the mine not long ago and it was a 9800 excavator. So 800 ton excavator, as big as hydraulic excavators get. And it's this little ute this like Toyota Hilux with a toolbox on the back. And you open up the toolbox and it has like wrenches. It's not even that like that filled out. It's these small and they're just like, why would we need anything else? It's like, what do you mean, why would you need anything? Like, how do you do anything? But to them it's like, this is everything we need. If we need something bigger, we go get something bigger. But we don't always need something bigger. But then the Americans are like, how do you do anything without a crane?

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You mean you don't have a crane? It just does not.

[B]

We're even more weird. Our service trucks, we have the crane on the driver's side. So if you're on the road, that's how you could tell us apart. Because everyone has them on the passenger side. Yeah, that's another weird thing we do. We don't even need them on our side, but we just did it. Because when you pull up to a machine, it's easier to see.

[A]

Oh, I see.

[B]

But yeah, but it's interesting because they, you know, talk about doing more with less. I have a vision to do the shop bay of the future. And you know, I was talking to one of our technicians, he's pretty sharp. You know, we have these big rooms for tool cribs. And he's like, why don't you get these vertical lift modules you see in the parts department, put all your tools there. And. And then he's like, we only need a handful of tools. Most of the sizes on these machines are pretty consistent across whether it's a320 all the way up to a390. So you start thinking we've kind of grown into just overbuilding our needs to work on these equipment. And what do you really need at the end of day? And what I get frustrated with is you get these big toolboxes because, you know, it's an ego thing.

[A]

Well, then you gotta fill it up.

[B]

Yeah, and then. Yeah, and then also it takes up all your shop base space and then it starts to look clutter, disorderly.

[A]

And it's. Finning's another one. In South America, we went into this finning shop and it's where they're, they're working on some of the newer stuff. So it's one of the cleaner shops, but there's no tools anywhere. So it's like a six bay shop and there's like a 793, a 992, a D11 so there's bigger gear in it. Cause it's all mining class. You don't see any tools. I'm like, I asked him, like, where are the tools? Like, well, they go check out whatever tools they need for the day, go use the tools, and then they put them back. And it's like, that's a different way to do it.

[B]

A little military style almost, too.

[A]

Yeah. But it's like, it just. It's more efficient. It's more cost effective. We don't have clutter everywhere. And you would look around like, wow, they only have the tools they need for that day. And I think that would drive people in America absolutely nuts. Oh, yeah. But it's like, well, they're working on the same gear, so it might not be right or wrong. It's just a different way to do it. And then you go to Europe and they have vans over there.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Seriously, another extreme.

[A]

But everybody's working on the same machines. It's Caterpillar. It's the exact same stuff, but just different approaches.

[B]

It really is. Yeah. So I have a dream to innovate that. But also, it's kind of the phrase I'm trying to use is nascar, the I'll say crap audit for the podcast here. But basically, you look at NASCAR, you look at F1. The time five to 10 years ago it took to basically do a pit stop is they've compressed it significantly. And you look at our shops, we build larger shops, we hold more equipment. And, you know, that's a big expense for us as a dealer. And if you look at. If you could do more with less, so maybe have four shop base, but you turn the job three times as fast, you're NASCAR and the crap out of it. Yeah. You know, you get better efficiency, but also the customer gets their machine back quicker. But it's interesting because that it's a whole mind shift to even start to go down that path. Because, you know, there's fear. All of a sudden you don't have enough work coming in. All of a sudden, your shops will be empty all the time.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And you got safety and different things like that. But if you look at F1 or NASCAR, I mean, it's remarkable what they can do in three seconds.

[A]

Yeah. And I was watching, like, I'm sure you follow Red Bull, but I was watching Red Bull Instagram. They're like, how fast can we do a pit stop in the dark? And it's like, come on. Like, who has this idea? And they filmed it with infrared cameras. They had infrared lighting, but they shut the lights off, and they still did it, like three seconds or three and a half seconds. And they're. And they film the guys, like up close, they're kind of like fumbling around because it's pitch black, but they're that good. They're so dialed in. But then I think that's the struggle, too. Like having a business that's over a century old. There's not that many businesses within the United States that are over a century old. So just that alone is extraordinary, which is great because it builds quite a moat. But then at the same time, it's harder to innovate and change things when you've been doing it for over a hundred years one way. Like I don't have with. With our company. We've been around six or seven. We don't. We're not up against the status quo, because there isn't a status quo. But when you have, like, how many people are at the company now, too?

[B]

2,500.

[A]

2,500 people. 100 years of history. That's a big ship to move around.

[B]

Yeah. I have a. With a team, we're doing a lot of, you know, we do a lot of thought leadership things, and I think bad Photoshop skills here, but I basically took a picture of a cruise ship, a cargo ship, and then I Photoshopped a tail on the back of it. Essentially, we're a big ship that's hard to move. And then when it comes specific to certain elements of change, we let the tail wag the dog, meaning certain people that aren't on board, you know, they can really sway whether you do it or not. So we got some challenges there. So explaining why we do stuff, the vision and articulating that is extremely important. But the analogy I like to use is when a machine's down and a customer is like, we need it now, we jump on it immediately, we figure out a solution, and we get them up and running quickly. And I want to take that same mindset essentially, to just any challenge we have in the organization, treat it like a machine down. And we do that with recruiting, especially with technicians, because one challenge is you get someone hooked, but then it takes a while to get back to them. So it's like, let's treat every application like a machine down. And all of a sudden we're seeing this throughput and hiring in a different pace there that we haven't seen before. I see. So I'm trying to change that mindset. How do we stay true to who we are and what's made us who we are. But innovate and adapt as things evolve. So you know, and we were talking earlier today about this, but people consider like in a dealership, your biggest competitor, like you know, the other oem, whether it's John Deere, case, Komatsu. But in reality our biggest competition now is that experience, that hype and awesome experience that you experience every day in your daily life. That's what customers are comparing us to now. So if you love doing business with Amazon or you love going to a certain restaurant or you love ordering food from doordash, that's the experience customers are comparing us to. Not the John Deere down the street or the other cat dealer or whatever it may be. So that's changing our mind shift too is how do we take these best in class experiences and solutions in the industries around us or just the world around us and bring them in our business. And that's hard to do. But when the customer, if we truly listen to the customer, understand their needs, that motivates us to get it done quicker or it helps enhance that willingness to change.

[A]

One of the coolest things I think you guys have done that I think is brilliant is the true work stuff. Like I walked around with Gary in the, in the shops when I was here a few months ago.

[B]

Awesome.

[A]

It was the first time I'd seen your guys's shops and everything like that. And everybody's wearing the true work stuff which is, it's very European which, which you go out and that's one of my, that's one of my things. Like that's one of my talking points now you go like, why do we think construction or mechanics are construction workers? Mechanics are like second class citizens. A lot of times they look like second class citizens and looks aren't everything, but looks are quite important. Is reality.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

The pilot on the plane, it doesn't matter what they're wearing, but if they show up in like sweatpants and slides and get in the, I'm going to be a little nervous. It could be the most capable pilot in the world. I'm going to be a little nervous. Or like a police officer, they wear a uniform for a reason because they're, they're in a position of authority and that is important. And so I think that's one of the best things the Europeans do is their construction workers, their workers in general, they look like professionals most of the time. They look good and, and the clothing is still very practical for the application. They're still getting dirty and Greasy. And it's still. They're still working on stuff. So, yeah, they're going to get dirty, but they don't. They don't look like a mess. They look put together, which I think is really important. And so seeing the tree work stuff in the shop, it's like, I can't believe this hasn't been done before. This makes perfect sense to me, especially going for being around in Europe.

[B]

Oh, yeah. It's a passion project. It's been the hardest project I've ever been a part of, but it's the most meaningful change that I feel like we've driven in a while. Because our biggest asset and our most important thing in our company is our people. And a majority of those people are the technicians who are actually fixing equipment, our customer's equipment. And when I was a kid, I wanted to be a technician so bad. I saw that Ziggler uniform. I'm like, that is awesome. And then I found out I'm not smart enough to be a technician, but the uniform is so important. And I've always talked to my dad about it and things too. You always want to innovate and change that for safety, comfort, but also image. And, you know, we feel we have the best technicians in the industry. Not even feel we know we do. And. But they, you know, we want them to look the part. And so I was with a friend and I was kind of expressing this frustration, and he's like, well, I know this uniform company, you know, this performance workwear company, and you should put. You should talk to him. And I kind of blew it off. Cause I'm like, there's no one out there. And, you know, I reached out to Helly Hansen. I got blown off by them. And. And so anyways, I finally, like, you know what? It doesn't hurt to reach out to him. And I met the owner, Brian Sikora, and holy cow, he's one of my heroes. What he's doing for the trades and his team under his leadership is just phenomenal. They're bringing dignity to that role, to the trades, you know. And, you know, he. I don't want to talk poorly about Carhartt, because we all loved Carhartt growing up and things like that. But Carhartt just says, work harder, work harder, work harder. And Brian's like, no, it's more about working smarter, too. And you look at our people, they have to be extremely knowledgeable, they're extremely smart, they're well trained, they're hard workers. And so you not only gotta work hard but you gotta work smart. And so they're shaping the image around workwear. And like, you look at Duluth trading, they got funny marketing with the plumber's crack. But how's that bringing dignity to a plumber? Plumbers are super smart, and also they're committed. They show up on Christmas Day when your drain's clogged up. But anyways, so he's changing the perception of the trades and bringing dignity to it. And he kind of related. It's almost like your costume, to your point, people will judge you by how you look. And we want our people to feel confident and have that dignity. When they leave Ziglar and they're wearing their uniform, they go to their kid's soccer game or they go to the grocery that. And I think a testament to it was there was one of our technicians was actually at a sub or Jimmy John's, and this high school kid's like, holy crap. I'm paraphrasing here, but holy crap, that uniform is effing fly. No, no, he's like, it's fly as f. You know, and it's just like, all right, we feel we hit the mark. But I gotta tell you, it's a hard. We're held captive by the laundry piece of it. So if anyone's listening out there knows how to innovate the laundry piece, you know, we're stuck with Cintas. And that customer experience isn't what we. We desire. Yeah, but then secondly, you know, you can't make everyone happy with uniforms. Everyone's got opinions on clothes, but it's got to be better than the 1970s polyester that they've always been wearing. And I know it's kind of a long winded thing. I'm just passionate about this piece. But. But essentially, it's going to evolve just like our normal clothing. You know, get a new jacket, it wears out. There's going to be a better, newer one out there. And. And so I think it's gonna be cool to see where it goes. We're not where we want to be yet, but we got them in it and it's been awesome.

[A]

Is it the whole company now?

[B]

Yes, they have a. I think their biggest innovation is their FR stuff. So the FR piece isn't fully adopted because we're testing some of it out. But, you know, FR is old, clunky, hot, bulky apparel now. We got this FR kind of stretchy stuff that looks like a sweatshirt. And so we're transitioning machinists and welders into that. But if you're a technician doing normal wrenching, you're in the new true work uniform. And I'd say the pants are a hit. The jerseys, you know, people want you to want short sleeves, long shirt, long sleeves. But, but we're, we're just going to evolve it and I'm pretty excited about it.

[A]

No, it's a big deal. I, I've been a big supporter too. And even their fr. I was talking to them about their FR. Stuff, just how far along FR has come. The guys I had on, they were like, yeah, this is fr. I'm like, what are you talking about? It's f. It was like, you know, like that. It's almost like fashionable. Yeah, it's fr. Yeah, it's fr. What? I didn't even know they could do that. But I'm. And that's why we've been involved with Ariat and others is because I think it's so. I think a lot of people would dispute this out in the field, say it doesn't matter what you wear. Completely disagree. Oh yeah. And I don't think they really believe that either. Everybody, it really does matter what you're wearing. And I haven't seen a company in the United States at scale change and think about what their people are wearing like you guys have done. Seriously. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not bullshitting here. I haven't seen it before. And I've, I've actually seen more of the other side of it, which is key leaders saying we don't. It's a waste of money to get our people nice stuff because then they leave and take it with them. And I'm like, oh no, too short sighted. I cannot. This is so like maybe they do leave, but now they're advertising for you if it's nice. Like Randy, he's at our company now, but when he was at Blunt, he would get their people some really nice stuff because he was like, even if they go to another company, it's so nice. It's going to be their favorite sweatshirt or something like that and they're going to be wearing it at the competitor. So why wouldn't I want that for $130?

[B]

Yeah, it's me.

[A]

It's a good investment.

[B]

Yeah. And it's. And I don't know, we're paying way more to transition this direction, but it's.

[A]

I'm sure it's not cheap.

[B]

Yeah. But we believe in it. And I think it's going to meet to see where it evolves and stuff. But it's my favorite brand out there. I've totally bought into their, their mission and who they are.

[A]

So, yeah, I'm. Yeah, like I said, how long has it been going for now? When did you transition everybody?

[B]

I think a year and a half ago.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So. And you know, we got complaints. Like, I disagree with some of them because I wear this stuff personally. I test it out at home and actually I did a motorcycle trip this summer. I wore a new prototype jersey and absolutely loved it. You know, it's. But the cool thing is it's SPF 50. So you're out, you're a technician, you're outside, you're wearing it, you don't have to worry about putting sunscreen on and all that. But the thing that's really hard is talking about the mining earlier. We work in 30 below weather and you're out in the elements in the wind and the snow, and you're changing a big hose on a mining shovel or whatever it is, and it's hard to dress for that warmth. And they have the most comfortable, flexible winter workwear. And that's been our biggest hit. Second to the pants. I mean, the pants are phenomenal. Everyone loves those. And then they're innovating, they're putting knee pads in and, you know, we're talking about, you know, finning down in South America and how they only have a few tools that they're using during the day to work on stuff. Yeah, Truewerk's looking at tooling and how you carry that as well. And I think it's neat to see how they evolve that. But, you know, how we carry our tools onto the machine and work on them, you know, that whole experience needs to evolve.

[A]

Well, and finning, that was one of the other things. So you go into their CRC in an Augusta, which is one of the more impressive CRCs I've ever seen. I would say your guys is up there too, so appreciate it. Yeah, yeah. You guys have pretty nice one better uniforms.

[B]

Nurse.

[A]

Yeah, theirs was extraordinary because there were so many women and I asked them, I'm like, why are there so many women here? This is not. This is not common. How'd you guys figure this one out? And they, they have a technical university that specifically recruits women in the community, even if they're not going to come to work at finning just to give them technical ability, know how. So they, they deliberately engage with women and train women in the community, first and foremost. But then they've rethought their Tooling. And so they realize that women, they're, they're just a different build. It's, it's not the same like a 230 pound man is going to use tooling different than a 140 pound woman. It's, it's just physics. And instead of being out in this fairy world, they said, well, how is it different? And how can we work with it rather than against it? And they've rethought some tooling to be specifically suited for women. It's like that's, yeah, that's, that's pretty straightforward. Like, of course that makes perfect sense. But why is this the first time I've seen this? It's like. But of course, yes, this is, this is exactly it. And so I just get, I get excited about thinking like that. Wow, they're really thinking about how to do things differently, which is again why I get excited about the peril. Like, it seems like this small little thing, but it's a really, really big deal. And it's, to me, it's also, it shows that like, wow, you guys are really thinking about this because I know, like, I know that's an uphill battle.

[B]

Oh yeah, yeah, it's.

[A]

I know, like for you to be the guy, it's become pretty ups and downs to be hated by probably a lot of people for a little bit maybe because people don't like change. Like you put your neck out and that's like. That to me says a lot as well because it is a significant change. But then the other side of it too, I don't think people understand. I struggle when people say their job is hard or they work hard. I don't say that because I know I'm not working like those guys out in these iron mines. You know, it's 30 degrees below and they're out there working because it's like, well, we can't just not work like it.

[B]

Yeah, it's.

[A]

You have to, you have to work. This is, this is just the reality of the situation. And I think people forget that it's people like that that keep the world moving.

[B]

Oh yeah. And that's. And then that's embodied in this true work brand story and brand promise. And I, that's what gets me pumped up. And I love, like, that's why. So my dad never forced us to come into the business. In fact, I wish he told us more about it so we'd be more attracted to it. But like, as I spent summers working here and then did summer jobs other places, I was like, I want to go back to Ziglar and it was the people. And what I love about it is that our people, whether, you know, it doesn't matter what department they work in, but I really saw it first and foremost in the shops. Cause that's where I got most of my early exposure to the company is like their commitment to taking care of the customer, commitment to working hard, commitment to being passionate about what they do and doing it really well. It came through loud and clear. And so when they're so for them, yeah, they may work in these hard environments, elements, but they're so passionate about it because they have a purpose behind it, they're serving the customer. And that's what I love about the trades and what we do. Because it's a different mindset and it's a can do attitude, it's a servant led mindset and it just gets me excited. And anyways, it sucked me in to be a part of that type of culture and environment. And so anyways, that's why I love the trades because it's people that aren't above anyone else. It's people that just want to work hard and they're just committed to serving others.

[A]

When you were growing up, what was your perception of what your dad did when you were younger?

[B]

Well, he worked hard and it's interesting if you're a kid in your own equipment, you just get excited. And I see it today, I got a five year old and a three year old and we've done birthday parties at work and there's just this excitement about machinery. And so I just felt my dad was a part of that. And I didn't really think much of it. I didn't know he was an owner. I never thought, look at it that context I just looked at. My perception was he's a part of this really cool world of machinery and fixing machines. And part I got excited about, he'd bring us in on Saturdays. It was just seeing people working on machines. I just thought that's the coolest thing, having tools. I think tools are the coolest. I just love tools and gear and being in an environment where people are tearing these things apart and putting them back together and then running them around job sites in the yard. And my perception was he's just a part of this cool little world. But it's interesting because even at a young age, my grandpa and my dad, they would talk what we did and it was always under the umbrella of serving others and taking care of others, taking care of the customer. And it was I can't think of one conversation that ended up resulting in us talking about the customer and their success or the importance of our people. So my perception was he was a leader of people that served other people. I don't know. It's kind of a. I've never been asked that before, but.

[A]

Yeah. Well, it is interesting, too, how your perception of things as a kid, because your reality is just your reality, and you almost think that that's just the world. Yeah, like we would. It's. It's. It's just. It's the reality. My dad. My dad worked for a lot of the sports teams and all of the sports teams in Arizona. All the owners of the sports teams sent their kids to our school. So the reality was, like, one of the crazy things I thought was. Was. Was just how it was, was we. I don't think I ever went to a game where we weren't in a suite, which sounds insane. It sounds so like, oh, fuck you. Like, yeah, okay, Mr. Silver Spoon. It's like, yes. I'm just saying, like, I thought that was normal when I was a kid. I've never been in the suite as an adult. I am under no illusion that's normal. But it's just funny because that's your world and that's all you're exposed to, especially before social media, Internet, everything like that. You're just so constrained to your environment. You think that that's how the world works, or like your neighborhood is the world.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I remember, like, I wouldn't go south of, like, this street. So, like, that's where the world ended when I was a kid. It's. It's. That's. That's the world. There's so much more there. And as you become an adult, you start to realize, like, wow, I can't believe I thought that was reality.

[B]

Yeah. That's kind of funny how that. Yeah. And then your world gets bigger and bigger and bigger and only gets bigger. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you realize the bigger it gets, the smaller it is, too. I mean, it just.

[A]

Yeah, it's bigger and smaller. Like, the more. That's the funny thing about traveling abroad, especially the more I've done it, the smaller it is, but the bigger it is. It's just like, whoa, this is a big place. But what was your first official job?

[B]

Building maintenance. So I mowed the lawns, painted nice, and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I remember my first day, I wore a polo shirt to go Weed Whip. And it was kind of funny. I was like, okay, I'm not Wearing this, but I didn't have a Ziggler uniform at that time and.

[A]

Yeah. You didn't wear shorts at least though.

[B]

Yeah. Were you wearing pants? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I had my car hearts on.

[A]

Yeah. True work existed, but I did shorts the first time. I did. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that was the last time I.

[B]

You know, the biggest deal of my uniform. You know, my dad's like, all right, you're going to drive down to this area in Minneapolis and you're going to buy your Red Wing boots. And, you know, these are your work boots. You're going to have them for a while. They're important. And, you know, Red Wings in our backyard. I've met the owner. She's awesome. We just toured it, actually. But it's. It's another brand I just love because it ties back. Probably it planted a seed of the uniform thing maybe for me, but getting these Red Wing boots was a big deal for me because I was. I was one of the team. You know, I was one of the, you know, I was doing building maintenance at the time, but, um, you know, all the technicians are gonna wore Red Wing boots, so it was like my first step into, like entering their world.

[A]

No, it's. It sounds dumb, but I remember, I distinctly remember getting my first pair of boots and then my first pair of Ariat boots, which. And just you have like this emotional connection to them now. And it's like I'm just emotionally connected to these because they were my first pair of real boots. And then I remember another thing was the first two companies I worked for, I didn't get any company branded stuff, which was a bummer to me. I wanted something branded. And then I went to work for Skanska and I got a Skanska vest. And I thought I was just the coolest cat. Man. I was so stoked because I had Skanska on the back of my total.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

It sounds dumb, but I just. It was special. Yeah. It was a big deal to me. Yeah.

[B]

And that's how I want all our branding to feel when an employee wears it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and I think, you know, we got an online store, zieglerstore.com if anyone's listening. No, but I'm big on hats. I remember another part of that uniform was, I'm gonna go in the front and I'm buying my cat trucker hat. And I wish they still made them like they did or I wish I collected them more. So, like the Red Wing boots, the hat, it was a big deal for me, but, yeah, that was my first job. And it's interesting because people would say, oh, that's just grunt work that you. You just got to do it to go through the paces. And actually, I couldn't be further from the truth. For us, we have high standards at Zigler. Our image, our facilities, how we maintain that is extremely important. So my dad wanted us to get exposed to that, to understand the standard. But then, secondly, we're going out to different branches. We're meeting people. So it was a pretty impactful job for me. And then, you know, we have a thing, a cultural training at Ziggler that we run every employee through. It's called the Ziggler Way. And in retrospect, that's when I really learned what the Ziglar Way was. And, you know, we don't cut corners. You do it right the first time. In fact, I remember building a wall. It was with our VPs sales son and I were building this wall with an older gentleman named Bud, and the wall is just not level. And Andy and I are looking at each other like, we're gonna get in trouble for this. This isn't. This is just. This isn't right. And Bud's like the senior guy there. He's like, nope, we're going to keep doing it. Keep going. And he was a former truck driver for us. And then, sure enough, our boss, my first boss, Tom Faschetti, came up, and he's just like, well, we got to redo this. This is not the Zigaway. This is not, you know, it's not level. And it was cool because, you know, the Zigaway goes beyond just serving customers and the machinery. It embodies our facilities, our standards and everything. And I. It was a good lesson that even though you're halfway done with something and it's not right, start over. Do it right. So I learned all these things through these summer jobs that really instilled me our culture and our high standards and expectations that I like to think I embody and lead with today.

[A]

Have you worked anywhere else?

[B]

Just summer jobs. So I worked for a construction company. I did retail spaces and malls. That was pretty cool to see the behind the scenes. And then I worked for a motorcycle guide company called Ayres Adventures. I was. They call it the bag bitch, but I basically drove a van in South Africa with a spare motorcycle in the back, and I. You know, I'd pass the customers in a day with their luggage and deliver to the rooms. And that job was phenomenal for me because you learn customer hospitality you're with them from, you know, 7:00am till midnight. And you gotta anticipate their needs, you gotta make sure they're having a good time. Someone will get sick, someone's bike won't work. And you got these just different dynamics of, you know, essentially customers and your job is make sure they're having an awesome time. And so I learned a lot from that that I brought into our business because we're here to serve our customers and you're gonna have different personalities, things aren't gonna go to plan. And it's how you respond to them and make them feel special, make them feel cared for. But that was kind of extent of it. I knew since high school I wanna work at Zigler. I distinctly remember I was mowing the lawn and you look back at your work and you're like, wow, this looks great. And I just, I'm like, this is where I want to be. But I never told anyone. I just kind of kept it quiet because it's. But I just knew. I just feel called. You know, my dad says, you know, we all have our God given talents and you got to figure out what they are and develop them. But I knew this is a place I wanted to use those at and I.

[A]

That's what makes being like, I'm grateful, I'm not multi generational because it can put you in a box. And I've seen a lot of people struggle with this because they feel like it's not like they're being ungrateful in a way if they don't go that path. And I've seen a lot of people go the family business path that shouldn't necessarily be in the family business. That's just not their thing. But then there's other people like you that's just like, this is it. I don't need to go anywhere else. Like I found it and I'm gonna go run in this direction. And I think that's so important to ensuring that it goes forward because I think problem happens when the next generation takes over. But it's not their thing. Oh yeah, they try to make it their thing, but you can't outrun it. Oh yeah, it will catch up with you. And it's just, it can be a miserable existence.

[B]

I think that's well said. And you know, life's too short. Why waste time doing something you're not passionate or love? And I think, you know, I remember talking to my dad at younger age too. I'm like, well, I want to create something. He's like, well, he's like. Well, he calls me Willie. He's like, willie, you can do that at Ziglar. The business needs to evolve and change. If you just keep doing what's. Leave it the way it is, it's, you know, it's not going to be around for a long time.

[A]

Then when you went to college.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you go to college. You've been here since.

[B]

You've been here since.

[A]

Did you get Cat Finance at all?

[B]

No, my younger brother worked there for a while.

[A]

Okay. But it's a. It's a pretty. If you go on the path that you've been on, it's pretty rigorous.

[B]

Yeah, it's. And I say, you know, back to, you know, multi generational. Cat is phenomenal at protecting that and making sure that that continuity is strong and that the right people are taking over the dealership. And the only other brand I know that does that is Toyota. They're very strict on that. The family has to work in the business and have that experience, and I think that protects the brand and honestly protects the employees and your customer base as well.

[A]

No, I think it's. I honestly think it's one of the best systems I've ever seen, which is. Which is frustrating to me because no one talks about it, but it's like, that's one of the things that makes Cat cat. Oh, yeah. Is because they have the dealer network and then they've been really deliberate with who runs the dealer network.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Like that. That is the secret sauce. I honestly. And people may dispute this, but even at mine Expo, I was talking with a lot, they're like, yeah, you know, look at this machine. It's like they're all good machines. You go to Conexpo, they're all good tractors. And yeah, this one might be a little bit better than that one, but they're all really, really good. And when somebody asks me, which is a bad move on their part, what kind of machine they should buy, I always say, go with whatever dealer is strongest in your territory. That is the brand I would buy. I've seen enough of it now. If Kat's strong, then go with Kat. If this dealer, other dealer's strong, go with that. That's all that matters. And then I. But I think CAT is the strongest dealer network because they've been so deliberate with who leads the network.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

But yet it's like I've had to really work to even understand how it works, because they keep it under lock and key. And I know that's by design, but it makes Me more invested in the dealer network because I know how hard it, like how hard you've had to work to get to the position you're in. It's not handed to you.

[B]

No. Yeah.

[A]

It's like you have to go. I mean, they make you jump through a lot of hoops.

[B]

Oh, yeah. And you know, even beyond that too, like cat has their expectations and process and, you know, I think my dad's had a really strong, very strong expectations with the dealership and that commitment to taking care of the customer. And I. And so it's, you know, you're getting from both personal, personal side and then from the cat side and then, you know, I don't take any of it for granted. And even when you're a cat dealer, things are more established for, you know, say 10 years from now, like, I still won't take it for granted. You gotta, we gotta constantly keep evolving because to your point, our competitive advantage is how we take care of that customer and our service. And there's good machines out there. So how do we continue to differentiate ourselves where it's hard for the customer to go anywhere else? And so we got a lot of neat projects in place. Some are just to help get better at the basics of what's made us who we are with our growth. But then some are more innovative forward thinking that are going to help us differentiate ourselves. So it's interesting to balance all that cats, they expect a lot, they got a lot going on and that puts a lot of stress on resources and us. But I think truthfully, we're very aligned with, with them and their expectations. And when that happens, you know, you're getting a lot of good things done for the customer.

[A]

So what are the basics? Because I feel like in conversations everybody loves talking about the innovation. Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's sexy. This and that, but that isn't. No, it's like almost distracting from what matters most, which are the basics. Like, what are the basics of taking care of the customer? Oh, I love.

[B]

This is my favorite topic. You know, before I get into that, you know, with innovation, we have a. I'm sponsoring the culture of innovation at Ziglair and our VP of It's so.

[A]

You couldn't help yourself. You have to talk about.

[B]

I know, but he's taking over. But innovation for us is. It's not that big crazy idea that, you know, like a startup has and stuff. It's just continuous improvement for us. It's taking what you do today and just making it a little bit Better, you know, even if it's that 1% better every day mentality. But so for us, the things that we can differentiate ourselves are innovating on the basics. So we changed recently our continuous improvement core value to continuous innovation because we just want to get better at what we're currently doing today. So with that said, I just want to establish innovation for us is just getting better at what we're doing every day. So anyways, those core things that the foundational things for us is, for me is our. I call it, like to start the little things, the standards. So when you walk in our shop, it's gotta be totally clean and orderly. And I don't care if it's a 1950 shop or a brand new shop that we built last year, essentially, it's gotta live up to our standards, and things need to be orderly, whether it's how the toolboxes are arranged, how pallets are placed in that service bay. I want the parts department to look like a grocery store. You know, if high schoolers could be at a grocery store and stack things straight with the labels out, we can do that too. And I don't mean that to be demeaning, but so anyways, it's these little basic things like the yard, the equipment lined up perfectly straight. Customers see that, and we've had them come in and they may dispute a bill, but then they see everything's in order and they're like, okay, you guys know what you're doing? So that's one core component of our culture is just these high standards. And so the bigger we get, we gotta be really deliberate and prescriptive of defining what we exactly want from every employee. And then the second part is holding them accountable to it. So defining it's been a challenge because everyone's a different definition of orderly and clean. And then people are so busy taking care of the customers, at times they're like, well, I'm not gonna clean that right now. I gotta get this machine out. So there's a balance you're playing. And then you got your shop supervisors or leaders who are ultimately responsible for making sure they live those standards. And so anyways, that's been a shift where we're not perfect everywhere at that, but it's an expectation I have. And so that's one basic piece that is just a foundational thing to us. The other part is just our culture and a sense of our people. So we have. You're talking about our CRC across the street. It's great. State of the art's brand new. But what's special about it is the people inside of it. And so protecting and maintaining the right employee, bringing them into the organization, making sure we have the right fit people that are willing to serve others, to go the extra mile for the customer, that is paramount. That is our core competitive advantage. And when you have a tough competitive market out there, or even during COVID we probably let some people in that aren't bought into our mission or they're not bought into our culture, or it's just a job and pretty deliberate about saying if this is just a job for you, that's fine, but please find somewhere else to just have a job. We want people that this is, they're all in, they believe in what we're doing. And that is, that's a foundational thing for us. That is just, it's a tremendous effort. But we want high performing employees, we want them engaged. And so, and then basically another foundational thing is just the service side in itself. Are we, are we repairing the equipment efficiently? Are we going to die in a timely manner? Are we doing it right the first time? And are we communicating with the customer effectively? Are we getting the part to them when we say we are, are we getting back to them? All these things are just core things of who we are. And so now we're leveraging new technology to be better at it, to communicate more effectively, to be more efficient. So that's one thing. And then just that whole sales experience, how do we make sure that we're all over our customers and that we're not too big for them or there's these perceptions out there that couldn't be further from the truth. So anyways, crawling all over the customer is a big focus for us. Making sure that everything like obsessed over the customers, Amazon's all about it, having that awesome customer experience. So I don't know if that really helps understand, but it's like these are some basic things that we gotta make sure we're totally dialed in and do really well before we continue to push ourselves to grow further.

[A]

I think those basics allow you to grow further. I think it, one of the things I've identified, and I talked about this at the summit a few weeks ago, is looks are really important. I can, I can walk into a shop, I can walk onto a job site, I can probably tell you if that company is best in class or not, just by the way it looks. Because that, that is foundational. That is really where things are built from. And if it's not tidy, if the Equipment isn't parked up in a deliberate way. If people look like shit, for lack of a better term, if the shop's a disaster, if materials are just scattered, if there's trash on the floor or in the parking lot or whatever it is, that to me is like, they're not dialed in on those. On those basics. And I'm not saying we're dialed in those basics, but that's why you can ask these guys. I am a stickler for those little things because I know that's where everything else stems from. If we can't do that, then who are we to think we can do anything else? But it's quite rare. And like two of the other companies I'm going to be talking to this trip, Veit and Ames, those two companies are some of the biggest sticklers for the details that I've ever seen. But look where they are. It's not by accident that they are where they are.

[B]

It's so true, and it's funny. Dick Ames, when he started Ames, he said, I want you guys to go up to Ziggler's and I want you to park our equipment just like they park theirs. And you look at their stuff now, they do a great job. And even when the job's done, at the end of the day, they park it up nice and straight. There's nothing cooler to drive by. Job site, end of the day, and all their CAT equipment's lined up perfectly straight. I love customers that pride themselves in that because it's.

[A]

But from a recruiting standpoint, I see that that's a company I want to work for. They take pride in how they look, and then that draws me in and it builds. It's so. It's just such a basic thing that I feel like is missing a lot of times, but it's never missing with the great operations. And then the other thing you said with the hiring is, especially now because companies are hurting for people so badly, they're willing to just kind of take anybody. And they even say this stuff. They're like, yeah, we'll just take anybody. Got a heartbeat, you're breathing. Come on down. And it's like, that is the quickest way to erode what you have going. But they're afraid to say, we have a standard. If you don't meet the standard, you don't have a place here. Even. We've been afraid of that. But now, especially this coming year, I'm really trying to lean into it, especially from a hiring standpoint. Like, we almost had a thing where we would have hired this person. Brilliant on interviews, brilliant individual, brilliant skillset, Brilliant for the role we had identified. But we had something. We try to test people out before they come in, oftentimes as contractors, which has been awesome for us. And I know every business can't do that, but we try to put them or give them a real world scenario to see how they do. And they just like, I couldn't put my hands around it. But they just didn't take to it. Like we needed that person in that role to take to it and we didn't hire them for that reason. And it's like, I can't put it down on paper. But they just didn't have what we needed. They just weren't all in on this. And we can't afford to have somebody not all in on this. We need somebody that is just breathing this.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

And they're not that person. And that's fine. That's completely fine. There's probably a better role out there for them. But even that was a decision we wouldn't have made before. We wouldn't have been that. But it's like, all right, if we want to be a world class organization, it starts with our people, starts with who we're letting in here. We need to be. We need to be sticklers on who gets in here and what the standard is here. Where else. Everything else doesn't matter.

[B]

It's you'll be, it's. You can't compromise on it. I mean it.

[A]

No.

[B]

And I think sometimes, hopefully, I think everyone in their careers learn the consequences to it when you do compromise and the amount of work it creates, it's just not worth settling on the front side.

[A]

No. But it's easy to let it slide. And especially it's been hard for us. And we're at 50 people, 60 people. Wherever we're at now.

[B]

That's incredible.

[A]

In the thousands of people, it's probably. You know what the hardest part is.

[B]

About that is someone asked, do you know every employee's name? Or like, how do you. Like, obviously you don't, but that's hard. We're a family business, but it's just some stores you get out to a couple times a year just because of distance or whatever it may be. So we have a big thing. It's like, how do you feel part of a company, the brand and all that. And I want to, there's just for me, I want to know as many employees as I can. They're. They mean a lot to all of us. But that's the hard part too is like you grow a lot too and some things get compromised. And that family feel is something that I'm trying to experiment with. How do we continue to maintain that yet be the size we are? So that's something that's been kind of new for us to navigate. But if any organization, true organization, it's not rocket science. It's all about the people. And when I first got my office job out of working in the shops, my dad threw this book on my desk called 13 Fatal Errors at Managers Make. And it was by Dr. Steven Brown. And it's old school, but it is awesome. It's 13 key points that you shouldn't do as a manager. But there's a thing in there that I remember reading back then that excites me. It pumps me up. I just obsess over it. And it's basically like the CO said, take away all my capital, all my buildings, everything else, but leaving my people and I'll have it back in five years again.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it just shows the power of people and having the right people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So anyways, I just. People underestimate that, but it's, you know, and that overwhelms me thinking and worrying. Does every employee wake up every day thinking about our mission, which is we maximize uptime for our customers in the communities we serve? Do they wake up living and breathing that? And do they know even how their job contributes to that? So that's been the biggest thing the past two years is just living that message, reinforcing it. And if you really think about whether you work in accounting or you work in IT or parts or the shop, we all are in a position to maximize uptime for that customer. And so anyways, it's hard to get everyone on board with that. And I think once you get majority of people living and breathing that that's when the flywheel really continues to hum.

[A]

Well, and it just takes time, dude.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean it just. And you have to say the same thing.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

One of my favorite sayings, repetition doesn't spoil the prayer. You go to church on Sunday, you say the same thing.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

Every Sunday. Why is that? I mean, this is a pretty, pretty good system going on.

[B]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You know, absolutely. And it's like, why is that you need to repeat it over and over and over and over again and with that many people too. It takes years and years and years and years. And that's one thing I've just. It's, it's. It's like the term I've heard is aggressive patience. I have this urgency because I know, hey, we've got to get on with it. We don't like. I'm very aware that time is finite and I only have so much time, so I've got to get on with it. But then you have to know when to get on with it and what to get on with and then when to just fully understand that. This is gonna take years.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's a. For the first few years in business, that was impossible pill for me to swallow because I'm with you, young man, early twenties, full of piss and vinegar. No, no, it doesn't take time. I'm just going to will things. But it's like, hey, all right, take a deep breath, Mr. Big Ego. That's not how the world works. So you can do your best, but you're not in charge outcomes here. And it's been. I think that's been the biggest difference between me at when I started the company at 23 versus now 29, which is not that much time in the grand scheme of things. But I have come to understand the value of time in the big picture.

[B]

You know what I'm learning that this past few years too, I was like, what's taking so long for some stuff? We got some big goals and we're not getting the results we want yet. We're seeing improvement. They're incremental. And so that feels good. But it's not the pace I thought we could hit it at, in my mind. And that's what I'm learning is patience. But if you do the little things well and you show up every day and you make things 1% better, you're going to see those results. But it's hard, especially if you're more of a growth mindset person or you have big expectations and want to grow or pace is hard. But you look at Elon Musk and all these people that are idolized, they drive an incredible pace. I think part of it's because they look at ways. They're ruthless in the sense of cutting out waste and inefficiency of whether it's around meetings to just work. Life balance and it comes with consequences. But I think a more established business like ourselves can't afford to do something like that or treat people that way. But there's people are like, well, I'm a part of a cool startup that's going to change the world, so I'm going to grind it out for three years. So for us, it's hard to compare to these other businesses that drive a different pace and culture. So for me, it's like, how do you. That startup mentality of everyone shows up every day to work. Like we have everything to lose if we don't perform like a startup has, but also a place they don't get burnt out at and they want to be a part of.

[A]

But I think that's what a lot of people want. Like, that's what I think is so cool about cat dealers. Like, man, how are these companies struggling from a workforce development standpoint? Because if I penciled it out on paper, what a lot of people want, what's good for people as human beings, what the next generation wants, these businesses have it. And so that's why I'm so optimistic is because I know tractors aren't going away anytime soon. We can talk all about whatever technology you want to talk about. That's really cool. It's still a very atomic world at the end of the day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's still all I am. It's still all human beings. You and I could go move to the metaverse tomorrow. We still gotta poop, we still gotta eat, we still need water. And how do you do that? You do that with tractors, for lack of better term. And it's not going away. It's very human. And I think it aligns really well with what that next generation wants. Which is why I get frustrated when it's. Everybody's so defeated and poopy pants about the future. The next generation, this. And that's like, what good does that do? And like, to me it's like, all right, if you want to, if you, if you love the status quo, that's fine. You go do the status quo. I don't, I don't have. I have nothing. Nothing. Nope. If I were you, I would probably be doing the status quo too. You know, 63 got a good thing going. I would be riding that thing into the sunset just like you are. But don't be an impediment to the success and to the future of the industry. That's where I get frustrated.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Is when you, when you, when you're in the way, get out of the way at least and let. Let the necessary change that needs to happen happen. Yeah, that's when I get a little wound up.

[B]

Yeah, I'm with you on that. I think it's interesting too. Cause I remember someone talking about a farmer and they're like, let's say they have a 40 year career. They get 40 tries to have the best yield, the best crop. And I look at that with business, too. It's like, okay, there's probably gonna be a period here next 20 years where I'm just gonna be fully motivated, wanna light the world on fire and change things. And then, I don't know, I think it's just part of human nature. You kind of. You accomplish something or you kind of. You ramp down a little bit, whatever the. I don't know what contributes to that yet. But for me, it's like, I got, you know, if I'm 38 now, I got, you know, another 30 years to just make a go of this. I want to 30 tries do something awesome here. So, like, I don't want to waste one minute. So it's interesting. I kind of compare that comment about the farmer to what I'm doing every day as a leader. And I want every employee to feel that same way, where it's like, we have ambitious goals and we have these wins taking care of the customer that make them feel like they win the super bowl every year. And again, you're not going to win it every year, but if we showed up every day and put our best foot forward, that feels pretty darn good too.

[A]

Well, the impact you all have created is substantial. Like, they're like, for example, the iron ore range, you supported the war effort pretty directly. Or the Mayo Clinic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I'm sure you've helped not just build it, but from a power system standpoint.

[B]

Yeah, it's.

[A]

It's, you know, like the Mayo Clinic depends on what you all do to make the Mayo Clinic work. Or Ames, like Dick Ames started with a D8 dozer bought from. Bought from you guys. Yeah, it's pretty remarkable. Remarkable. Just the impact that you can have. It's a modest business. At the grand scheme of things. All you do is serve the customer. You sell tractors. But what those customers and tractors can do or those power systems, whatever it is, can do is extraordinary.

[B]

Yeah. And then we are blessed with our territory. I mean, we got mining, we got power generation, we got forestry, we got, you know, the heavy construction. And then we got egg is in our backyard and that we're. We're in the epicenter of agriculture. And they love cattle. You know, one thing I love about farmer farmers, too, is like, they'll nickel and dime you on a combine or a tractor, but they're like, well, I'll give you cash for that D6.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Because it's just a toy. They're gonna go push around trees and dirt with and I always love that. But it's neat in that, you know, our territory, it's diversified, where you can handle the ups and downs. And we may not have the biggest mining opportunity, but we got a consistent SETI mining opportunity. And same with power. It's like there's a consistent business there. But I think how we interact with our customers is something that I'm excited to continue to evolve and change because our territories consist of this Midwest work ethic, these farmers, these hard workers. And we got a short window of time to get things done from basically your summer season. So from late March, April all the way to November, people are out there working. And it drives this efficiency and this productivity that maybe you don't see everywhere else because of this window of time. But there's a lot of new people getting in the industry and customers and there's more of them. And it's, how do you reach all of them? How do we let them know who we are and, and our commitment to serving them and being their best option? And I think it's gonna be interesting to see how that evolves in our territory because there's a lot more competition, There are different industries and opportunities. But it's neat, you know, like, even our rental industry, like our rental business, we were able to serve all these other people that maybe aren't moving dirt, but they're building buildings. And it's just cool. We had a neat territory. And I just want to make sure that we're position to make sure we're serving all these customers and these opportunities we have.

[A]

It is interesting what you were saying out there earlier this morning too, about how I think the whole next, the whole generational thing is problematic because people then put people into boxes. Well, you're a millennial, so you're in a millennial box. Like. Well, that's the dumbest thing. Yeah, like the dumbest form of categorization. Like, that's ridiculous. But there are also some common themes between generations just based on the realities of the world. And so back in the day, I would grow up working. That was pretty common, especially in a place like this where you do have ag and some other industries where it is more rural. Yeah, I'm not in suburbia. And so the kids worked. You're free labor. You're working like, you don't, you don't get a free lunch around here. But then you go to, you know, the country has, has urbanized. I didn't grow up. I grew up in suburbia. There weren't opportunities to do that. Even if I wanted to do that, I couldn't have a newspaper route.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That wasn't a thing. I couldn't be a landscaper because there were already really good landscapers in the area. It wasn't, it wasn't a thing. And so legally I couldn't get a, I couldn't get a job until I was 16. And some people, 17, 18, some people post college. If you don't get a job, if you don't have a job until you're 22, you are really screwing up. But like just for yourself, it's huge. But that's a lot of people. And so there. When it comes to taking care of the customer, it's interesting because you have to train on technical ability, but you also have to train on these other skills that you haven't previously had to think about. Like how to shake someone's hand.

[B]

Yeah. Oh yeah.

[A]

That's a simple thing that a lot of people haven't learned. How to look someone in the eye, how to tell them your name, how to communicate effectively, how to not get upset, how to not take stuff personally.

[B]

Be self centered.

[A]

Yeah. How to, how to. Yeah. Check your ego. And if you have an upset customer, how to. Because that technician in that service truck out in the middle of nowhere, that's not just the face of your company, but the entire Caterpillar brand.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That one of, you know, Blue Chip Corporation, one of the most American companies out there, that 19 year old kid, 20 year old kid, 21 year old kid. That's the face of the brand. And so it's not even just the technical know how anymore, it's how do we take these. I look at it like how do we take kids and make them adults? Right. If I can figure that out as a business, if I could build a system that does that. We haven't figured that out yet. But if I can figure that out, there's no way we can't be successful. And that sounds, it's, it's not even me minimizing anybody. It's just like, wow, they just don't have these skills because their parents didn't teach them. No. School didn't teach them. If they have a previous employer, they certainly didn't teach them. They probably taught them the opposite. So no one's taught them this stuff. Why am I gonna then go get upset that they don't know how to shake someone's hand instead they don't know how to shake someone's hand. Oh yeah. Wow. We probably ought to figure that out because they're the face of our brand. That's important.

[B]

Oh, absolutely, yeah. And I think it's an opportunity too. I think, you know, first of all, I know this monk, this guy's awesome. And he was telling me, he's like, you know, everyone, you know, we're designed to work. You gotta want to work. And I think that's one societal thing that we gotta make sure people understand is like, you have these talents, these gifts you have, you gotta identify what they are and then put them to use to serve others. And I think, you know, and I just look at how I was raised with my parents, I was blessed with phenomenal parents. And you know, they working hard was important to them. You know, whether it's doing chores around the house and then doing them right, and then also helping others, serving others. And I think so for me, I got a five year old and three year old and I'm all about making sure that they do chores. And also there's studies out there say kids that were assigned chores and had things to do at a young age are likely to be more successful growing up. And it's not rocket science, but, but I think that the thing that's important is people. They see all these people in society that we highlight and idolize that are very wealthy per se, but they're not or they don't work. And people just want to get rich and just sit around and it's like, we're not designed to do that. You get fulfilled by using your talents and using them to serve others. And why I keep saying serving others is I've been to a lot of funerals through my life now, and the good ones I've been at. And what I mean by good is like, I walk away, want to be a better person. There are people that they weren't a president or organization, they weren't super wealthy. They're good people that spent time with other people, they loved others and they serve them, they helped them. And it's like. And they. And you know, every funeral that I walked at where people excelled at that, I walk out and I'm like, that's who I want to be. And I think we got to install younger people. It's like, you know, it's not all about you. You got to use your talents to help others. I guess, I don't know, it's kind of a thing on my mind lately because. And further that too, I think I've been blessed with good mentors in my life and some of them I've sought out and found. And some I just. They kind of fall in your lap. But I think everyone needs to find someone, you know, that they can lean on, they can talk to be their true self and then also check your ego at the door where no one's perfect. And a lot of people spend their time focused on their weaknesses. But my dad always said, especially in the business is like understand your weaknesses but fill them with other people. People with those skills that excel where you're weak and spend time developing your strengths. I think people spend too much time trying to get better at things that aren't a strength and they're wasting time on something versus they take that time, put it towards something they're really good at and let that grow. And I think a good mentor can help identify that. So you gotta invest in yourself. And I think everything else kind of falls into place after that. And don't settle. I think, you know, some people settle too and they. But anyways, I just think like society wise, it's like we need to, you know, I guess we gotta engage and be present with this next generation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know. It's a big topic.

[A]

No, it's a big topic. But one of the best things I've done is just double down on what I'm good at and trust other people, good people to do the other stuff I'm not good at. That they're good at. It's made things a hundred times more fun. It's just so simple.

[B]

That's a good point. You're happier.

[A]

It just makes it so much more fun. So good. I'm not a technician because I'd be a terrible technician. My mind doesn't think that way. And that's why whenever I'm in a shop, I could sit there in a camping chair like a six year old.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

And just.

[B]

I'm with you.

[A]

It's. I don't understand it. I don't know how they can do this stuff. How they can weld so well. How they can take a machine apart without even thinking about it. How they know which hose goes where. How did you know? It's just. But it's a. It's something that I just can't grasp. And I might be able to practice it and get a little bit better, but I just know that's not my thing. That's not my skill set. I'd be a terrible technician. Oh yeah. No one would want me as a technician and I. But that gives me this respect for these people that do it. That is immense. Because it's just such a beautiful skill that I couldn't possibly have myself. So I really appreciate it when I see it. Yeah, I'm with you.

[B]

And I think that's the coolest thing about owning a business is I took a class in college that it was motivational psychology, it was for education and the theme was like, how do you motivate people and students? And what I got was you can't motivate people, but you can create the environment that motivates them. And that aligns with kind of my dad's big theme as a leader here and he instilled it in us, is just creating an environment for employees to succeed, to use their God given talents and to grow. And I think, you know, when you talk about this next generation, identifying those people with those attributes and that skill set and bringing them in and creating that environment for them to shine where they can, that's going to be a big contributor to why we continue to have the best people in the industry. So. But it's cool, you know, and you look at what you're doing, you talk about being good at and we were talking about true work earlier, but like, look what you're doing for our industry in the dirt world. I mean, you know, you got a calling that you're fulfilling and I think driving awareness to one of the coolest industries in the world, it's phenomenal. And I think, I'm sure you're pretty motivated by that. But also it could be a little challenging and draining seeing the missed opportunities or the wrong perceptions out there. But anyways, I just want to thank you for what you're doing because it's a big service to an important part of all of us in the world.

[A]

Yeah, I appreciate it, but yeah, it's. I found my thing early on, which has made me, as the years go by, more and more grateful for finding my thing early on and more and more motivated to just chase it. I've only become more urgent because I'm like, man, this is unique. I've got to go squeeze everything I can out of this.

[B]

Such a good feeling.

[A]

It's such a good feeling. And there might, like I even said, I was talking to our team the other day about it. I was like, I don't, I don't condone working weekends. I'm not sitting here saying we all need to work weekends, but I love working weekends. I love working Saturday and Sunday. I don't have little kids, I don't have a dog, I don't have mortgage. I have nothing else going on, and intentionally, because I love doing this. And I used to get caught up in, like. Well, you know. Oh, they said I need a hobby. Oh, they said I need to slow down. I need to take it a little easy. I need to take time off. I need to have a rest day. I need to have friends. I need to go out and be social. So, like, I would get caught up in all the other stuff, but the further I've gone, the more comfortable I've become. Just doing my thing. Yeah, just doing my thing.

[B]

It's awesome.

[A]

I love it. And so the more I've done my thing, the more fun I've had. And I just want to keep doing it more and more and more and then find other people. Like, Jason was in town. He helps run our company. And I hate doing business dinners. Hate it. It is just not my thing. And it's nothing personal against anybody. I just don't like.

[B]

So you saying we're not getting dinner tonight?

[A]

No, I'll get dinner with, like, a friend. Yeah. But if it's, like, a business thing. Yeah. I am not about it. And I. And maybe I've lost a lot of business as a result. I just don't do it. I was invited to something at Trimble, you know, a week ago. I walk in five minutes, I'm like, I don't want to be here. I just left.

[B]

That's one of my things.

[A]

But it's like, I didn't want to be there. And it's nothing personal. It's just my thing. And I went and had dinner by myself, which I.

[B]

Where'd you go?

[A]

There's this sushi place that I really like in the Venetian or the Palazzo. I forget what it's called.

[B]

Let's get dinner alone.

[A]

I was so happy because I was with people all day. I just needed, like. Because I know I need my time.

[B]

But I think what you're saying is it's perfect advice. It's something I'm working hard at. But you know what drains you, you know, what fills up your gas tank with energy and having the confidence and the discernment to know when to participate, when not to. That's something that we all gotta work on. I think, like, for me, I have certain things that fill up my gas tank, make me who I are, and there's certain things that drain me. And if you're not balanced on that, you're gonna run yourself out. And I think people are really worried about hurting other people's feelings or whatever. But, like, a lot. I just Saw a thing online that posted about six things that made him successful. And one is, if he's not, you know, don't stay in a meeting that you shouldn't be a part of.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I just. I kind of like that. I mean, there's certain things you can't walk, you know, politically or whatever you gotta be a part of.

[A]

But I gotta sing the songs.

[B]

But the fact that you, you know, you're doing that and having the confidence to do it, that's going to pay dividends for you.

[A]

And I. Yeah. I just wish people didn't. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's time for dinner.

[A]

Well, yeah. No, Yeah. I just wish people didn't take it so personally. Hey, this has nothing to do. Oh, yeah. I just don't.

[B]

What about breakfast?

[A]

Yeah, no, but I. But that's what I. That's. That's like. If you were to come to Nashville, I'd have dinner with you. Yeah. Or I've been making people break breakfast in the office. I'm just like, well, I like making breakfast. It's not a bad breakfast. I can make a decent breakfast. So I'll just cook breakfast for us. And everybody enjoys that more. It's like, this is great.

[B]

Well, on that note, I don't want to prolong this, too, but it reminds me something that I've really aspired to. But the founder of Airbnb, he said there's certain things that make you who you are, your gas tank that make you special, and you got to keep filling them up. And finding what those things are is super important. I think that's one thing I've found. Things that give me my creativity, they give me energy, and I try to invest time into that and recharge. And then things that take the energy from you, you gotta identify that and.

[A]

Manage it and cut it out.

[B]

Yeah. And it doesn't matter what your role is or who you are. It's so important. So I think the fact you hit on that, it's personally an important thing to me. And I think hopefully listeners can, you know, relate to that. And. I don't know, but I appreciate sharing that because it's something that a lot of people overlook.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They feel like they got to be a certain person or a certain thing in a role and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Be your true, authentic self.

[A]

And I see other people doing it. Yeah. I was like, oh, if I had to do that full time, man. Oh. Oh.

[B]

This is gonna be my new thing, though. I'm Invite you to dinners all the time.

[A]

Yeah. I just this. Yeah. I just like to go to bed. Yeah. I like to cook my own dinner.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I appreciate you having us.

[B]

Appreciate our time together.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah.

[A]

Thanks for sitting down.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. And have a great Thanksgiving. And thanks for everything you're doing for us and the industry. We appreciate it.

[A]

Yep. Right on. Yeah. That's all.