Five Days in Switzerland Changed Everything w/ Shay Stutsman – DT 457

Summary

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Dirt Talk Podcast Episode DT 457

Guest: Shay Stutsman (Stutsman Gerbaz Earthmoving)
Host: Aaron Witt, BuildWitt
Date: July 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features a high-energy, deeply insightful conversation between Aaron Witt and Shay Stutsman, the owner of Stutsman Gerbaz Earthmoving, a third-generation excavation and site work contractor based in Aspen, Colorado. Shay shares the remarkable story behind his company’s transformation after learning from European contractors—particularly Switzerland’s Eberhard AG—leading to dramatic operational and cultural shifts. Themes include: rethinking productivity, European equipment methods (especially Oil Quick couplers and attachments), social media’s role in construction, and actionable strategies any contractor can adopt to modernize and thrive.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Meeting & Full Circle Moments

• Background: Aaron and Shay reminisce about their initial meetings, including time spent in Aspen and a transformative joint trip to Switzerland to visit Eberhard AG.
• Full Circle Realization: Aaron reflects on how he admired construction sites in Aspen as a child—possibly even seeing Shay’s family's work. Now, he’s collaborating with them and bringing others to learn from their methods.
  Quote:

  “Here we are. I was like, we were in downtown... just having a moment. I was like, wow, this is pretty full circle.”
  (Aaron, 04:57)

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2. Social Media in Construction

• Rapid Changes: Both recount the shift whereby owner-operators now use Instagram to share stories, connect, and inspire.
• Organic Storytelling: The authenticity of posts resonated—Shay started Instagramming 5-6 years prior, driving connections and curiosity about new practices.
• DM Culture: Initial deals and learning happened in direct messages, shaping collaboration across the country.
  Quote:

  “The power of social media has become such a wild thing in the industry... how many amazing people I’ve been able to meet through social media is just absolutely incredible.”
  (Shay, 05:58)

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3. The Swiss & European Equipment Revelation

• Origin Story: Shay’s “aha” moment happened watching a Belgian operator efficiently use a wheeled excavator loaded with quick couplers and attachments, sparking his interest in European methods.
• Initial Skepticism: Early attempts incorporating European-style excavators met typical American skepticism: “that’ll never work here,” “it’s too expensive,” “oil contamination.”
  Quote:

  “I just stood there and watched this guy for way too long... That was the first time that I really had seen the European style of construction.”
  (Shay, 08:03)

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4. The Oil Quick Transformation

• Implementation: After initial trials and resistance (both technical and cultural), Shay’s company fully standardized on Oil Quick hydraulic couplers and attachments.

• Immediate Efficiency Gains:

  • Machine sharing via standardized attachments
  • Reduced personnel per crew (from 5-6 to 2-3)
  • Fewer machines needed per job site
  • Crews reallocated, not fired

• Return on Investment:

  • 8 months or less for the full payback
  • Down from 3 machines/crew to 1, with output higher than ever
  • Productivity, morale, and profit all increased
    Quote:

  “If I had to put my finger on one single thing that has allowed our growth, it’s Oil Quick.”
  (Shay, 21:16)

  Notable Statistic:

  “Now every single one [of our 31 excavators] has Oil Quick.”
  (Shay, 14:35)

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5. Lessons from Eberhard & Swiss Best Practices

Inspiration Source:

• Eberhard AG sets the gold standard for equipment standardization, organization, and visual branding.
• The Swiss approach is a preview of where the US industry must head: dense, regulated, labor-constrained environments.

What Shay Copied and Why:

• Attachment classification and sharing between machines
• Standardized fencing, branded equipment/jobsite appearance, Conex boxes
• Professionalism in branding and appearance

On Copying without Pride:

“We emulated absolutely everything that they did...down to fence panels.”
(Shay, 32:17)

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6. Cultural & Organizational Outcomes

• Pride in appearance: Employees take greater ownership because machines and personal appearance (uniforms, gear) are a point of pride.
• Happier, More Productive Workforce: Less physical drudgery, more skill-focus, more time invested in safety and organization.
• Talent Attraction: Younger, more ambitious workers gravitate toward companies with superior equipment and visible culture.
• Brand as Recruiting Tool:

  "If I was in the middle of Nebraska, I’d do the exact same thing because it’s important...everyone should pay attention to that.”
  (Shay, 58:10)

Professional Image:

• Cohesive branding (Ford yellow accents; personalized vests)
• Clean, well-maintained equipment signals value to both employees and clients

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7. Deep Dive: The (Hidden) Productivity Crisis in US Construction

• Myth-busting the “Labor Crisis”: The root is not just a lack of people, but:
  • Archaic workflows
  • Poor productivity that drives unsustainable margins
  • Over-fixation on equipment ownership vs. utilization
• Hard Truths and Call-to-Action:
  • US construction productivity has declined over the past 50 years, while manufacturing rose 400%.
  • Companies must invest in becoming truly productive: adopting the attachment/efficiency mentality, not just tech “gimmicks”.
  • Labor and equipment should be managed as two halves of the same team.
  • Higher efficiency = higher wages, less burnout, lower turnover.

Quote:

“What if we don’t actually have a labor problem? What if there’s something else going on?”
(Aaron, 44:05)

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8. Embracing & Exporting Innovation

• Manufacturer Partnerships: Because of willingness to experiment, Shay and his team have beta-tested and even helped design new attachments and machines with companies like Trimble, Cat, AMI, Oil Quick.
• American Adaptation:
  • Took European ideas, made them work for mountainous Aspen, and now innovate their own attachments and methods.
  • Examples: Track loaders with 6-way blades; track loader GPS; universal coupler for backhoes.

Quote:

“Now let’s start focusing on, what are our ideas? How can we make our ideas work for us and what works for our projects?”
(Shay, 64:17)

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9. The “Abundance Mindset” & Industry Impact

• Open-Book Philosophy: Shay publicly shares everything he’s learned, believing it’s not proprietary.
• Benefits of Sharing: Collaboration = more business, more consulting work, reputation gains.
• Brand Reach and Influence:
  • Despite being a small local company, their influence reaches well beyond Colorado—sought after nationwide due to visibility and cultural leadership.
• Payoff for the Industry:
  • Everyone rises together.
  • Competition is not zero-sum: better industry = better talent, better margins, more pride, etc.

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10. Advice & Takeaways for Contractors and Young Leaders

• Invest in Productivity: Attachments, coupling systems, technology—view these as savings, not costs.
• Mindset Shift: Don’t seek reasons “why not”—ask “how could this work here?”
• Pay Attention to Appearance: Brand everything smartly. Clean uniforms and machines matter even in the smallest towns.
• Share Knowledge: You lose nothing by helping others—culture and people are the real differentiators.
• Be Professional and Curious: Show up early, dress well, care for your tools, and ask questions relentlessly.

Quote:

“Look smart, be smart... just work hard and just ask questions.”
(Shay, 54:02)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On seeing European methods:

  “When you see Oil Quick done right, there’s no other way to do it.”
  (Aaron, 22:07)

• On traditional methods:

  “If you told me that I had to start over and go back to doing it the old way, I’m out. Hard out.”
  (Shay, 59:54)

• On realizing US productivity issues:

  “It's taken us 10 years to figure this out... What if we're just not as good as we need to be at building stuff?”
  (Aaron, 45:27)

• On brand and pride:

  “If your machines look good, your people take care of them, and everyone wants to work for you.”
  (Aaron, 55:09)

• On open-source success:

  “Sharing is caring, baby.”
  (Shay, 76:46)

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Segment Timestamps

• [07:45] — Shay’s inspiration from European excavator at a Belgian wedding
• [12:45] — First Oil Quick adoption and fleet transformation
• [15:10–18:45] — Copying Eberhard’s approach; direct outreach, open sharing
• [23:00–30:00] — Zurich Airport project: witnessing world-class coordination
• [32:24] — Full business transformation: from branding to job site layout and technology
• [35:53] — ROI of modernization: financial calculations and hidden social benefits
• [37:25] — Fundamental problems in US construction: labor vs. productivity
• [48:34] — Wage implications: efficiency as the path to higher pay
• [62:00] — Becoming an innovation partner with major OEMs, driving adaptation in the US
• [71:09] — How to choose a company to work for: it's all about brand, pride, and presentation
• [78:24] — Company culture and people as the only real proprietary advantage

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a masterclass on how contractors can leapfrog the status quo by boldly embracing proven global best practices—starting with open eyes, deliberate learning, and a fearless willingness to change. Shay Stutsman’s journey is a perfect, practical blueprint: copy what works, invest in people and efficiency, brand your company with pride, share everything, and watch both influence and margin grow. For anyone in the construction or mining industry—especially owners, operators, and managers—these themes carry transformative potential.

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Listen if you want:

• The real story behind one company’s meteoric rise
• Tactical, proven ways to transform equipment management and productivity
• An inspirational roadmap for becoming a magnet for talent and opportunity in the “Dirt World”

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End of summary. If you want to learn more about the details behind Shay's Switzerland trip, the Zurich Airport demolition blitz, or exactly how Oil Quick changed his bottom line—check the full episode for all the context, humor, and wisdom.

Transcript

[A]

This episode of the Dirt Talk podcast is with my friend Shay Stutzman of Stutzman Gurbaz. Earthmoving. Shay is the owner of Stutzman Gerbaugh's Earthmoving, a third generation excavation and site work company based in Aspen, Colorado, and is one of the most forward thinking contractors in America. Years ago, he flew to Switzerland to spend five days watching Eberhard, a Swiss company, work. And then he came home and changed everything. In this episode, he reveals why American contractors have a productivity problem disguised as a labor problem, and why the companies still doing things the way they did them 10 years ago are running out of time. If you have not seen Shay's stuff online, you are living under a rock. I actually accompanied him on that Switzerland trip. I was there as he was learning from Eberhard, and in Zurich, we had a fantastic time. And then he brought everything that they do back to the States and it has been nothing but good. And the craziest thing about it is that not many other companies have followed suit, even though it's worked really well for him. So hopefully this podcast gives you all a little bit more context on what he's doing. And if you are a business owner, listen up, because there are some brilliant things going on in his business that can benefit yours. So without further ado, here's the episode with Shay. This is. Have you've never been on our podcast?

[B]

Never done a podcast, buddy.

[A]

That is.

[B]

Well, actually I did something with Randy.

[A]

Okay. That is wild though. Of all the people I would have had on the podcast, you'd be on like, top of the list yet.

[B]

Thanks, man.

[A]

We've never done it before.

[B]

Here we are.

[A]

Did we first meet? Was that the first time we met? Did I meet you before that? We did when I was in Aspen sometime.

[B]

You came to Aspen prior? Once we hung out, yeah. For a very short stint. You came up.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. We had met one time before that. One Aspen trip before that. And then Switzerland.

[A]

And then Switzerland. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think I came up here one time on my own. Just to get away.

[B]

Yeah. It was just you?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wasn't anybody else. And then the second time, second time after Switzerland, Peter from Trimble was with us, right?

[A]

Yes. Yeah. So that was during the. That was when I stayed. We slept in the parking lot here.

[B]

Yeah. That was your road trip?

[A]

Yeah. So we slept in the parking lot at your shop next to the track loader. I remember brushing my teeth next to the track.

[B]

That's something good to wake up to if you wake up next to a Track letter. You're having a good day.

[A]

That was the. But we went all across the. We did five weeks in that stupid rv. We almost stayed at no RV parks. We just stayed in people's driveways, yards. Like everybody I know has a shop or something like that. So we almost had no problems finding places to park it, which is awesome. It was phenomenal. Yeah, it was actually really fun.

[B]

Did it get old? Did it get, like, tight?

[A]

I, I, it's like one of those things, in hindsight, you look back on it, you're like, no, I was nothing but good. I think, I think we were pretty burned out by the end of it.

[B]

Fair enough.

[A]

And I had Jack and Angel with me. I think they were cooked by the

[B]

end of that because. How many days?

[A]

Five full weeks. And it was like a lot. 15,000 miles.

[B]

That's a lot.

[A]

So just the driving alone, like, I think I, I underestimated the driving. Cause I, I didn't schedule time to drive. Like every day was a work day.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then we were driving Saturdays or Sundays or nights or mornings or So a lot of.

[B]

Yeah, that would, that would add up. Yeah, that would take its toll.

[A]

Yeah, it was, I mean, 30 states. Like, we went all the way around the entire United States. We started in Tennessee, Texas, over to here, California, up into damn near Washington, and then all the way across to Pennsylvania.

[B]

You did New York too, right?

[A]

Yeah, we did New York. Yeah. We slept in Brian and Brian and Tony's backyard.

[B]

That's awesome.

[A]

Yeah, it's, it was. This week was actually a cool full circle moment for me too, because I, like, I remember as a kid, I'd be peering through fences, construction fences in Aspen. Like, I, I remember that. And I have pictures of, of me as a kid in front of. I need to look through them.

[B]

I think you sent me one.

[A]

Yeah, I need, I need to ask my mom for them, cuz I'm like, who's doing the work? Or something like that. Some demolition projects.

[B]

I'd love to know.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, but I'm like, I'm sure as a kid I saw some of your work at some point in time.

[B]

I mean, yeah, if these guys, I mean, the family's been, it's 66 years, so.

[A]

So the good shot, really high.

[B]

Saw something.

[A]

Yeah, saw something growing up. And then here we are. I was like, we were in downtown, we were at one of those basement digs, and we had the group down there looking at some of your equipment. I was just sitting there, having a moment. I was like, wow, this is, this Is pretty full circle.

[B]

Those good full circle, aha moments are pretty special.

[A]

It's really cool.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah, I agree with you.

[A]

Yeah. Life is so silly that way.

[B]

It really is. It's kind of funny how it all shakes out in the end and all works out and how it's all meant to be.

[A]

Yeah, it. It really does work out. Yeah. When did you start posting on Instagram, man? Because I knew you from social media.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. It was funny because I started doing it on, you know, personal. Just work pictures on my personal page. Probably like really started in like five years ago. Five, six years ago. Like, really started.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That sounds maybe just before we like Switzerland or, you know.

[A]

Okay. Because that's how I. That's how I knew of you. Social media.

[B]

Yeah, social media.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's the power of social media has become such a wild thing in, in the industry. Like, how many amazing people been able to meet through social media is just absolutely incredible.

[A]

It's unreal. Yeah, I, I mean, somebody asked me the other day, they're like, how'd you arrange that? I was like, I don't know. Social media?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like almost everybody in my life. Social media.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I just, I don't know.

[B]

DMs, man, slide into the DMS and like, it's like when you start talking to like other companies or you're like, you know, the back and forth and then all of a sudden you've been like 20 messages deep. You're like, okay, it's probably time to go to bed.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But chat, man.

[A]

It was. But that's kind of how I got, I got going was I would just DM construction company pages and, and especially back when I was starting in 2018, which wasn't that long ago, but it was a different world in construction, social media, and for sure, storytelling. Usually it was like the guy who owned the company running the page. There was no, like, person in the office doing marketing or whatever.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Well, that's what I would get right to the decision maker.

[B]

And I mean, that's how I still do mine.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But like, I love that because like all of those people, that was like the most organic posting, right? Like, it's like, hey, this is what I do. I think this is cool and if you like it too, awesome. If not, it's okay too.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that, that was like my initial business was figuring out whatever the owner liked and then tried to give them something. They're like, oh, yeah, I'll post That and some of the, some of the times they would run the page themselves and post the stuff when. So you start sharing stuff and then you found the Swiss contractors through social media or. How did you first figure, figure that out?

[B]

I went to a wedding with Carly when we were not married at the time but went to a wedding with her in Belgium. And we're walking around this like downtown little city center in Belgium and there's a wheel excavator with oil quick on it and this guys running around, he's got hydraulic forworks tilt rotator and he's just running around doing all kinds of, you know, moving pallets of brick, digging up a little bit of stuff, throwing it in the back of his dump trailer. You know, because all those wheeled excavators in Europe have the dump trailers. And I just sat there and like stood there and watched this guy for way too long. I think Carly was questioning her decision making skills at that time.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Because I just was not paying attention to anything.

[A]

Except she did marry you though.

[B]

She did, yeah.

[A]

She knew what she was getting into.

[B]

Definitely. If that was a good indication she, she figured it out there. Uh, so took a bunch of pictures and had never heard of Oil quick. Didn't even know what it, you know, what it was. Um, but I watched him do a bunch of switching of attachments from his tilt rotator to I think a shaker plate and the hydraulic forks and then came back and just started diving into the, into the, into the research of like Oil quick and the European stuff. But that was like the first time that I really had seen the European style of, of construction. Really paid attention to it.

[A]

Yeah. It is incredible the first time you see it, just how much they use attachments and how much they change their

[B]

attachments all the time.

[A]

Non stop.

[B]

Yeah. 100 non stop. And you know it's, it's like a very eye opening thing because I had really only seen wheeled excavators in videos, magazines, you know, social media pictures, but never really seen one in person. And I was, it was, it was a pretty cool machine but so different. Right. When you're not used to something you're like I'm not sure if that would really work.

[A]

Yeah. Here, that's what like I understand the apprehension in construction but I also think it does the industry a huge disservice.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Because everybody's always trying to find why it wouldn't work for them.

[B]

And that's exactly what I did.

[A]

Yeah. Just like, why not ask like what if this could work for me? Or like how can I translate this to what I do?

[B]

Without a doubt.

[A]

It's just everybody so critical. I mean trust like even in the comments, like guys just chill out.

[B]

Yeah, it's okay. Yeah. So, and we can talk about this in a little bit but we now have our, we have our first wheel excavator on its way. We're renting one I know we got from New York.

[A]

But I told you though I'm surprised it took you this long to get one. Well, I would have thought that was the first thing you'd buy.

[B]

So I got one probably like four years ago. And unfortunately we did not have oil quick when we first tried it. So it was an M314 and we were under the assumption that we would be able to share attachments with the Cat 314. The track, the track version. Right. But it had different linkage so all of a sudden it was very one dimensional. Because it only had a bucket that went with it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So it just didn't work as well. And then my, my operator had some apprehension to the, you know that there's a different feel to it, the balance

[A]

is different and it moves a lot

[B]

more, A lot more. Thousand percent. So he was trying to put his blade down, trying to put his outriggers down and trying to use it like a track excavator which you know you, you have to give things a try and allow them to do what they're supposed to do. And it just, it just wasn't the right fit at the time. So you know, shortly after. But it was fun to try like it, we really, we enjoyed it. But shortly after that this is coming back seeing the wheeled excavator in Belgium and then shortly after that reached out to Oilquik and Oil Quick North America. Got in touch with, with those guys and started you know, hey, this is kind of what I'm thinking and I didn't own all of the company at the time. I only had a 25 ownership in it. And there was a lot of apprehension to it because they're like there's no way this is going to work. We're going to get oil contamination, we're going to do all these things.

[A]

And it's not cheap either.

[B]

No, it's, it's not. Absolutely not. We can get into that like, because it, once you like realize how much it saves you, it's, it is actually like it's really inexpensive. But got a hold of them, started going back and forth and finally got talked to everybody onto on board to to trying oil quick. And we traded on four machines. We did two, three, 23 machines. We did two 320s and a 314. Those were the very first machines that we did.

[A]

Was this like what, like 20, 20, 2021.

[B]

2021.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. And like right at December of 2020, going into January 2021.

[A]

But that was like, so five years ago. The fleet was still as standard as it gets.

[B]

Very conventional. I mean, pin on buckets. Some had pin grabbers, pin on buckets with thumbs. I mean. Yeah, like one dimensional. A very few. We had a three. The 314 was really the only one that had a shaker plate attachment and a hydraulic hammer. But it was all pin grabber. So you had to change hoses.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Every time.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so then you get four oil quick setups and that's. That began your whole transformation.

[B]

That's what.

[A]

Caterpillar to butterfly.

[B]

100%. That is like the best. Yeah, that's like the best analogy ever. Because it's 100%, 100 what it is. It's not even the same world anymore, right? No, it's not even the same creature. So like. Yeah, after that, after oil quick, we got the oil quick heads for the shaker plate, for the hammer and the 320C's which was the first 320s that we put them on. You know, they had 42 inch buckets with thumbs. And they were just super one dimensional. Like you couldn't use them to dig trenches. You couldn't use them to do really anything except for foundation work, you know, dig basements. Well, all of a sudden we have these different buckets, we have shaker plates. Now all of a sudden the 320s that were somewhat obsolete are now like everybody wants them because everybody wants oil quick. And then we started just. We just. Then the rabbit hole just, just got bigger and bigger. And we now have absolutely every single one, which is 31 excavators, all with oil quick.

[A]

That is wild. Yes, 31.

[B]

31. And then a backhoe and a backhoe and. And two track loaders and a wheel loader. And the bat, like the rubber tire backhoe has oil quick on the backhoe and on the loader side. So and that one has six attachments for the back, six attachments for the front. So side shift backhoe. I mean we, we threw. We took everything from the European world and implemented it into our business. It was a. It was a direct copy paste.

[A]

When did you, when did you hatch the idea to go over there?

[B]

So after having Oil Quick for a little bit, you sort. I started looking at, you know, there was a lot of research done to what size Oil Quick would be the right size for our excavators. What, what size range? And Eberhard obviously is a favorite. Probably one of the world's best contractors, if not the best, without a doubt, like 100%.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Really had, I think, the best solution of how they used Oil Quick. So looked at what sizes they put on their machines, what spread of size class they were using, and then what Oil Quick size was being used on their excavators.

[A]

So you found them through Oil Clique.

[B]

I had seen them because of Oil Quick. I think there was like a hashtag or a tag of Oil Quick. And then through searching Instagram, found Eberhard.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Huh.

[B]

Yeah. And then started. And then Jason from Oil Quick was saying, like, you should look at Eberhard too, because these, these guys have all this stuff. And I actually met Aki, who was, who created Oil Quick.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He came out to Aspen. Ironically, he didn't know anything about us, but then he was walking around and saw Oil Quick on the backhoe, reached out to Jason, who got me in touch with him and we started walking around. He told me the whole story. The first Oil Quick actually went to Eberhard.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. So this it. That was like a very, again, the full circle thing. Like there's this company that you're like super infatuated with and then you find out that the company that's basically helping transform your entire business started with the company that you're like, that you're trying to, you know, to, to be like. So had a lot of conversations with them and then reached out to Eberhard on social media and started asking them questions. And ERS was the one who answered a lot of the questions. Marco also. Okay. When he was, when he was there, he ran the page. He was so helpful. I mean, those guys were just. I mean, the amount of questions that I asked and how quickly that I got responses from a company of that size was just. Was mind blowing.

[A]

The amount of stuff Urs knows as well, like, I don't think there's a single thing that guy doesn't know about equipment 100.

[B]

He. He will have forgotten more than most people will ever know.

[A]

It's unbelievable. Yes, Unbelievable. Yeah. And you don't even have to ask him some stuff. Like every time I'm messaging him, he just shares with me like a huge amount of information that's really, really cool. I'm like wow, this guy just, it's everywhere you look with this guy and

[B]

he's so gracious and so kind, like. And I found that to be true with everybody over in the eberhard world, right? Like they were just unbelievably gracious, unbelievably kind and then open to sharing, which I thought was tremendous. So we decided on our, on our classifications of size with oil quick. So we from like a 5 ton to an 8 ton, we went with the OQ 45, like the 14 ton to the 25 ton, went with the OQ 65. And then from a 35 ton to a 52 ton class is the OQ 80.

[A]

And the benefit of using, of classifying multiple machines within one range is because you can share attachments 100, which makes it a lot more economical without a doubt.

[B]

Like in all of a sudden, you know, you don't have to have a whole different group of buckets for your 15 ton excavator as you need to have for your 20 ton excavators. You need to have for your 25 ton excavator. So now all of that grouping of buckets, attachments, whatever it may be, you can share through the entire size class. And it's yes, of course putting a 325 hammer on a 314 is probably a little bit too big or vice versa. If you put the 15 ton hammer on the 325, it's a little bit too small, but it works in a pinch. And you're not, we're not like in a production hammering scenario. Right. Most contractors don't typically do that and we definitely don't. So you may only need it for like an hour or two or you know, 45 minutes, whatever it may be. So you can just share all of these attachments and all of a sudden this, this efficiency gain started. And you know, we used to have two to three excavators on a job site. We get into a lot of rock hammering. So usually we would rent a 336 that had a hammer on it and it would just be parked off to the side waiting for the other machine to be digging. Okay, we hit rock, let's stop, get out, go get the three. The other machine, go hammer. Or we'd have an operator in that machine just kind of sitting in there and when he needed to hammer, he would have hammer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then oil quick completely changed in those two to three excavators were one excavator and all the different attachments and so it's, it's.

[A]

When you look at it from dollar standpoint you're like, oh, that's a lot of money for a coupler. But that's where you start to make up the money in a huge way. So fast is eliminating multiple machines and just accelerating what you can do.

[B]

Yeah. With. Without it. I mean like five years ago we would do like 10 projects a day and we would have like five to six guys on every single crew. And now we've reduced that crew size to three, if not two, and one to two machines total. Like just primarily one excavator only. Sure. So we're able to take all of those people. We didn't get rid of them. We just reallocated them into being able to do more work. So that's the growth because of oil quick. We've just been able to take those two to three crews or those two to three extra people on that, on that 10 crew and then just go move them off to start doing other crews, starting building more guys and continuing to like grow the company. But oilquik, without a doubt. I mean if I had to put my, my finger on one single thing that has allowed our growth, it's oil quick. That's crazy.

[A]

The crazy thing too is once you see makes perfect sense. You just have to see it once and you're like. And see it once used correctly without.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then you're like oh, I get this. This is unbelievable. And yet I can tell you two other contractors in America that I know run it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're both demolition contractors. That's it.

[B]

I completely agree.

[A]

And you won't find a single excavator in Europe without it.

[B]

No. I think 90 when we were there and we went to Zeppelin the dealership. Like 95 of all excavators leave. 95 of all expediters leave Zeppelin with oil quick.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is a crazy statistic. But like you said, once you see it, there's no other way to do it except for using oil quick.

[A]

So you, you, you got to know Everhard online and then you're like, well might as well just go there and see what they're doing.

[B]

Yeah, 100%. Because you just go down these rabbit holes. Not only they're doing amazing things with excavators, but they're doing all these cool things with dozers. There's doing. They're doing these, you know, their, their utilization of track loaders I thought was really cool how they did that. They have the wheeled excavators. They have the cabover trucks. I mean whatever direction of or different piece of equipment you wanted to go down, they had like the best example of how to do it correctly. So it was a yes. We need to go over there and see them.

[A]

And they're, they're actually really unique too. Like thinking through bringing a group there, it would be pretty cool because the amount of work you can see within a one hour of one hour of Zurich, the different types of work that they do within that small of a market is insane.

[B]

100%. It's crazy.

[A]

It's like they'll do the biggest basement in Zurich next to a giant demolition

[B]

project and then a huge wetlands restoration project with a long reach 352. Another mile or two away. Yeah, without a doubt. And that's one of the things that kind of drew me to them is that we felt very similar on a much smaller scale. We had a lot of different types of work, but on a much smaller scale than, than they were. So they were just the perfect company to go see.

[A]

There's, there's some, there's, there's some other really good examples. Like Switzerland has a ton of great contractors.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And they're, I mean they're kind of like they're best in class but they're also pretty similar to some of the like key bags. Another one that's. And they're monster. Oregon is another one that's a monster Wallow is another one. Like there's, there's some monster companies there that do incredible work. And then Germany has some pretty top notch contractors.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The Netherlands, Belgium, they do some really good work. Denmark, Sweden loves their wheeled excavators without a doubt. And trailers there are.

[B]

Sweden and the Netherlands are probably next on the list to go visit the Netherlands.

[A]

Yeah, I'm, I'll be there again in a few weeks. And it's, it's amazing seeing like touring Zeppelin there. It's now it was pawn now Zeppelin bought the cat dealer there. But touring their shop like outside of Amsterdam, just seeing the customization on every machine, it's wild. I'm sure every machine is custom made and custom built in some way.

[B]

And then they do like, they're what they do from like a marketing perspective to like all those companies like everything that they do just makes sense. It just makes sense and you get it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know you can just watch from afar and be like wow. Everything that they do. And I agree. I, I mean I have a bias to Eberhard. Right. Because of the closest relationship with them. But when we Went to see a rager. They have an incredible system too. Key bag. Yes. I mean, their. Their color scheme, their company colors. It's just everything that all of those companies do. And you're right, those are all good examples, is pretty impressive.

[A]

So you went out there to just see what they did. What? You spent probably a week out there.

[B]

Five days.

[A]

Five days.

[B]

And we didn't do anything. Like, there was no touristy things to do. We looked at tractors.

[A]

That's overrated day.

[B]

Every day we drove. I mean, Urs put so many miles on his car. And we just drove around to all the different job sites. We saw demolition, we saw deep basements, we saw the airport. Hands down to this day, one of the best construction experiences, if not one of the best just general experiences of my life.

[A]

I agree. I wish I, like, really appreciated what I was looking at at the time, because I feel like I'd appreciate it more now 100%, but it was just unbelievable. And I didn't think we were going to see it like ers. So for whatever reason, I coordinated my trip with yours.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And we spent like. We kind of went our separate ways at a certain point because we had a different agenda. But we spent maybe two days with you guys.

[B]

Two? Yeah. We were there for two. Two days.

[A]

Yeah. And it was me and angel. And I had arranged stuff through Hugo.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Thanks to Instagram. Because, like, I didn't even know. I didn't even know what you go looked like. And I just. I meet the guy at the airport and he's like some kid. Yeah, for sure. Wearing like Air Force ones.

[B]

The exact same impression. And he's there and he was so gracious. He had like a box of chocolates.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Swiss chocolates from me and all my guys. And I'm like, I don't know, it was just. Yes. And he was just a wonderful guy too.

[A]

Yeah. And he arranged all sorts of stuff for us as well. But I remember Urge saying, like, yeah, the airport thing's just not gonna work out. And then the next day he's like, you guys want to go to the airport? I'm like, does a bear in the woods?

[B]

Of course.

[A]

Yeah, let's go, let's go. So I remember, like, had a full day, and then I think we napped a little bit. But then I remember having like a espresso at the hotel bar at 6 or 7pm Because I'm like, we're in it for the long haul tonight.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And we went out there maybe like 10, 9:30, 10:00pm Yep.

[B]

I would say, yeah, exactly.

[A]

Yeah. Go through airport security.

[B]

You know, we had to get our passports out. I mean like it was the whole, it was the whole deal. I was like, wow, this is like kind of a thing. But you look back and it all makes sense.

[A]

No, it makes. Yeah, it makes perfect sense now. But then, and, and then we're kind of driving through the airport and it's at night. You have all these Zurich International. You have all these big planes everywhere.

[B]

All the Swiss, Swiss planes like, and you're driving by. I'm like wow, this is, this is wild. And then we get to that staging area and all the. Everybody's out there having their like cup of coffee before they get hanging out. Yeah, just hanging out. So casual.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think that's what for me was like at the time. Everybody was so casual about what they were doing that I feel like I'm with you. I didn't necessarily know if like I truly appreciated it because you know, you see the machines, you're like, oh, you know, this is awesome. Everybody's like getting their coffee break, kind of getting ready to go. But go time was wild.

[A]

Unbelievable. Yeah. Because we were. I remember we were kind of at like one side of there, the, the Runway and we're just, we're just tearing down the Runway all of a sudden. Like it's like go time and it's like someone kicked an ant pile and everybody's just out.

[B]

That last plane landed, made it to the taxiway and it was like, let's go full send.

[A]

And we're, we're tearing down the. Tearing down the way. And there's like articulated trucks passing us. Yeah.

[B]

Like Volvo 40 ton haul trucks passing us with excavators pulling all kinds of stuff. Those, those massive trucks with the sound

[A]

panels, Huge sound panels and light plants and.

[B]

And I thought we were going pretty fast.

[A]

I thought we were going fast. But then by the time we got there they already had the two 90 ton excavators there.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

With the hammers on.

[B]

Yeah. Full send straight up. They're just, they're just going for it. Yeah. And how they, how they got Those like that 395, that special 395 and the other 390 out there with those wheel dollies in the back just like. Yeah. I, I have such fond, vivid memories of that. And I've one of the times where time itself went so fast. It felt like 15 minutes.

[A]

It did. Yeah.

[B]

For like three hours and it felt like 15 minutes.

[A]

Yeah. It was just the coordination. And 150 people working all in this one little area with all of these machines.

[B]

700ft, right.

[A]

Is what they. No, they. It was only a few hundred feet per night. I think it was, I think it was like 780 meters per night or something like that.

[B]

You're right.

[A]

You're right. So. So it wasn't, it wasn't that much because they, ah, maybe it was more than that. But yeah, I think it was only a few hundred feet.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because they did. I think it was almost 80 sections down a 10,000 foot Runway.

[B]

So that would.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Someone else can do the math. I'm not good at mental math. That's why I need Randy.

[B]

It was, it was a minute.

[A]

It was unbelievable. Yeah, yeah, it was unbelievable. You had the two 90 ton excavators with the enormous slab buckets.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Like those slab buckets, Hugh, had to

[B]

be at least eight feet wide.

[A]

Giant. Just ripping up the concrete, putting it in articulated trucks. And then you had all the wheeled excavators. Tons of wheeled excavators.

[B]

There was probably 10 wheeled excavators.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just zooming around, just working in that little area.

[A]

Huh.

[B]

All with different like attachments. They had hammers, they had that really cool cutting wheel that had like the trencher.

[A]

Oh yeah. For the, for the power.

[B]

For the electric.

[A]

Electric work.

[B]

Yeah. And then I just remember that, that, that female surveyor that was just. She was like running the show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Pointing. Get out of my way. She's setting up her toll station. I was like, wow, this. She's boss. Yeah, she was a boss.

[A]

Yeah. But, but yeah, that was. And then the paving was with the dozer.

[B]

Yeah. The, the trip. That's triple gausser pads. The wings. And so then. Yeah. All those, all the ideas that came from that night. All the things that saw from that night. And then yeah, just an incredible, the whole, the whole trip though was absolutely incredible.

[A]

But after that trip you went like full sand on everything, Europe methodology.

[B]

And we got back. I was there with Jake Kenny, who's my vice president, Adam48, who's my CFO. And then my dad came with. With us too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so it was just the four of us. And I remember like looking at Jake and Adam and being like, we're not very good at what we do after, after saying this. I mean we're good. We were good at our job for what we had or what we thought we knew what we were doing, but we're like, these guys are incredible. Let's try to emulate this. So we just we went after that trip, everything got completely changed. We started doing everything a hundred percent just like they did.

[A]

I mean down to how your machines look, how they're branded.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Down to your fences 100%. Yep.

[B]

The fence panels, the conexes on job sites.

[A]

Conexes, yeah.

[B]

We emulated absolutely everything that they did without it. Like you're 100 like down two fence panels.

[A]

Yeah. But that like, to me it makes sense. Again, I think you had the benefit of actually seeing it and so you can, you can believe it. I think a lot more. But you weren't, you weren't really going out on a limb. Like it wasn't like, ooh, I don't know, no one's ever done this before. It was like, well, I just saw it working super well. Yes, let's just do it here.

[B]

And, and they had been doing it for like 20 years with, with Oil Quick. I mean Eberhard is second gen, third, third generation, second generation company.

[A]

I mean they've been pretty, it's pretty 40.

[B]

They've been around a minute.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Because I mean they were no, maybe older than that. Because in their museum it goes way back.

[B]

Yeah, it has to, it's been a while. At least 50 years. Yeah.

[A]

They have a museum by the way,

[B]

they have incredible music.

[A]

Incredible.

[B]

Yeah. I'm so jealous of that One day we're going to emulate that hopefully too. But. Because yeah, I remember like 235 when they went to Saudi Arabia for a while with like the D11s, you know, when things got kind of slow y for them. That was a really interesting story. Their, their whole story is just unbelievable. But they had done it well for at least with Oil Quick. I know that's at least a 20 year old system. So they had been implementing that. So there was, it didn't seem like there was much risk to what we were going to try to do because they had done it so well, so successfully. And Aspen's very similar in like from a geographical perspective to what Switzerland is. Tall, steep mountains, tight mountain town.

[A]

Lots of rules.

[B]

Yeah, lots of rules, lots of regulations. So it just made perfect sense for us to just dive headfirst.

[A]

Yeah, but that, that's what's cool is so you've done it within really a five year period now. There's not a single machine in your fleet that's not touched at this point.

[B]

No.

[A]

In some way. There's not a single job site. That's the way it used to be.

[B]

No.

[A]

Everything within the business is different.

[B]

Everything. Mindset mentality. Equipment, job sites. Yeah, absolutely. Everything is different.

[A]

And it's the most interesting thing I think about it is like it's works really well for you guys. You wouldn't, you wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't working.

[B]

Without a doubt.

[A]

Like if you bought the four oil quick setups and it didn't work out, you wouldn't have then converted 35 machines to oil quick.

[B]

Definitely not.

[A]

If something wasn't working, if it wasn't making you more money in the business better, you wouldn't be doing more of it like that. I think people don't understand that.

[B]

Without a doubt. And you like. And if you look at the, the metrics on the financial side, you know our Adam is just, he's, he's brilliant when it comes to that. You know he said worse. He's like, let's just, let's just say that worst case scenario, oil quick. All the attachments, the variable angle booms, everything is minimum of a eight month return on investment. So anybody that does this knows like anything under a year or one year or less is kind of a no brainer.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So you know, he crunched the numbers. So then now the, we see it working in the field financially, it's starting to working, starting to work. And then there's all the intrinsic value of. You don't even know the benefits that you're getting. The benefits the crews are getting, the benefits the people are getting.

[A]

You can't put that on a spreadsheet. You can't necessarily.

[B]

Yeah, the, the happiness, the joy of the crews being able to come to work, how much happier they were because they're not having to do all of the, the mundane tasks that they used to have to do. So there's so much value that you can't account for.

[A]

Even your reputation.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like dramatically different.

[B]

I bet, 100%.

[A]

But, but it's, it's so it's worked out really well and then you haven't kept it to yourself. You've put the whole thing on social media for five years now, non stop without a doubt. And yet still no one's done it.

[B]

No.

[A]

Which is just mind, mind boggling.

[B]

And we're pretty open invitations to people that want to come see it. We're like yeah, come check it out. You know like if, if you have a question, if you want to see something. You know we have all these different sizes and classifications of, of excavators, variable like different sizes of VA booms. Come check out anything you want. You know, we've, we've offered that up. Hardly anybody does.

[A]

It's amazing.

[B]

We get a lot of questions about it. But then I think people, you know, they, they look at the cost of it and I think we changed our mindset on to it doesn't really matter how much something costs you. It only matters how much something saves you.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And once we kind of started looking at it from that perspective, it just became a no brainer to change the entire fleet.

[A]

But, but I think one of the core issues is that a, a, a standard construction company, civil construction company, they don't really factor labor in as much as they should. Like they spend so much time on equipment, Equipment, equipment, equipment, equipment, equipment. And then you have this labor component over here and the equipment department's over here. Labor components over here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they don't really talk to one another. But you kind of have to view their. It's all the same thing. Equipment is just the tools that the people are using. So it starts with people and then you're just giving them tools. 100 I think, like, but, but I think the industry is in a lot of ways too wrapped up in equipment.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

From a traditional sense. And I think the Europeans people are like, why are the Europeans better? It's because they've been doing it way longer than us. Most people, like a lot of people live in houses that are older than the United States of America. Like that's not true. Not uncommon to find a building that's older than the whole country that we live in. One, two. It's twice as dense Western Europe as America. So there's a lot more people in one area. And like you go to Zurich. It's tight, man.

[B]

It's tight.

[A]

Yeah. And they have restrictions. You can't just go build wherever you want.

[B]

No.

[A]

They're, you know, Dr. Horton building new subdivision on every street corner. Every, Every empty lot.

[B]

100%.

[A]

And then you have the constraint of labor. Like if you look at the oldest populations in the world, almost all of the top 10 are Western Europe. Which then constrains your labor force, which then raises your rates, which then forces you to then use more equipment. Technology.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

But that's where. See this is also the thing that I find really funny is everybody goes to technology. And we were talking about this yesterday how gimmicky a lot of the tech is. I think most, I think a majority of the tech right now is actually totally. The more I'm learning about it, it's so gimmicky. It's, it's, it's, it's so much is so stupid. And like, I think the main benefits are using equipment better.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, what you've done. Like, sure, you couldn't be doing what you're doing without Trimble and some of the technology.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But I feel like you've seen the bigger benefits through technology. But in, like, wait a minute. What if we use attachments a little bit better?

[B]

And that's. And that being able to do that integrates 100 into the labor.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So you look at a heavy equipment operator that has four laborers with him because he has to do all these different. Even he needs help to change the attachments on it with a pin grabber. He needs to undo the couplers. It's hard for them to manage people. They're focused on operating the machines they need. That's what their main focus should be. And then they have all of these ground guys that they're trying to work with. And the ground guys are struggling because they can't get. You know, it's. They have to shovel a lot more. They have to use more picks and bars, and it's a lot harder of work. So you change to oil quick. You put tilt rotators on. You get all of the right attachments for the right jobs. You reduce the amount of people that are on that single crew. It's not getting rid of people. I think that's a huge misconception, too. Oh, we're just going to get rid of them. It's absolutely not. You want to continue to grow your business, you just put them on a different. You just put them on a different crew. Grow your crew size. Well, all of a sudden, that operator doesn't have to worry about as many labors. So he's in a better headspace. That operator can now do more with his machine, whatever it may be, because he has all the right tools to do everything with. The laborers are substantially happier because they don't have to work. They're working hard. No, I'm not going to say they're working as hard. That's. That's not the right way to say it, but they're still working hard. But they're not just having to, like, completely back break their backs when the machine can do a lot of that work for them. So now they can start helping out with all of the other things that a job site needs to be organized and clean and tidy. And all of a sudden, you have this complete transformation of a job site over attachments and tools and tech and some technology. Trimble, without a doubt.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Is another godsend of transformation for whatever business has been able to, to change.

[A]

Sure, yeah, it's a, it's a part of it.

[B]

It's a part of it.

[A]

But that's, that's what that was. One of the main principles I learned when I, when I was starting as a laborer on a pipe crew was if you can use a machine to do it, use a machine to do it.

[B]

It's way easier.

[A]

Don't go be a tough guy. If you don't need to go shovel, don't shovel. Like is so it's, it's a marathon man. Like, like work, work smart here. But when you have a normal machine, it can only do so much. Without a doubt, you have that gap I know probably to Even on the tilt rotator front, I could give you like a hundred guys that have got quotes for tilt rotators. They see the quote and they're like,

[B]

yeah, this is crazy.

[A]

I'm out, dude. Yeah, yeah. No way. No way. The only guys that I actually know running tilt rotators, for the most part the their owner operators, like in these states.

[B]

Yep, I agree.

[A]

It's, it's still, still most owner operators.

[B]

Most. Maybe one, two, three, machine.

[A]

Yeah, I, I, I, I, I could count on my hand the time I've seen tilt rotators within like a normal civil construction company as just a tool still. Because I, I, but I know at least 100 people that I've got quotes for them. They see the number like 100 grand or whatever it is more sometimes for some of the bigger ones. Yeah, like, I'm just gonna go buy another machine, man. But, but that's like, again, it's, how long can we do that? I think Randy and I, we've really been working on the problem. Like, why is the industry struggling so much in America? And it's, it's really complicated. So there's a hundred different things happening, but without a doubt. But I think the core is like, so everybody right now painting with a broad brush is struggling from a labor standpoint. So they then go to, well, we have a labor problem. But then you start to dig into the numbers. And so most contractors, it's like 85 plus percent are saying they're struggling with labor. You've got the average age in construction as well into the 40s. So we have a labor problem. Okay, so then you go to, well, are we attracting a lot of people? And we actually, we're actually feeding a lot of people in the turnover rate is below age 25 is like 85%.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Horrendous so, okay, we're attracting all these people. They're turning, they're turning over. And now we can sit there and blame them, which gets us nowhere. And that's what we've been doing for a decade. The problem's only gotten worse. Yeah. Or we can be like, wait a minute, there's something else here. So then it's like, well, what is that something else? What if we don't actually have a labor problem? What if there's something else going on? And so then you go into construction productivity In America from 1970, manufacturing has gotten 400% more efficient. Construction in the same time frame has decreased by 30%.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So we've gotten less productive.

[B]

Yep. All, all this is 100% true.

[A]

Yeah. Which then leads to low margins. And so if you're, you're at a 5% margin, which isn't unrealistic.

[B]

No.

[A]

Within this world now, you're making almost no money if it's not tied up in retainage and all kinds of shit. Assuming your jobs are going well.

[B]

Yeah. Really? Your retainage is 90% of the time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Used to be that was profit.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. But, but so now even if you have that money, it's so little dollars that you can't really adequately invest in people and equipment and technology. So then it just becomes this doom loop that is like a continuation of low productivity.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And traditional methods that are just not as efficient anymore and burning people out, which then is. Is where we are.

[B]

So well said. So well said.

[A]

Well, and it's taken us 10 years to figure this out. And it's not like a, it's not a brilliant concept, but it's like, wait a minute, what if we're just not as good as we need to be at building stuff?

[B]

What if we could just do it? Just, just tweak a couple of things

[A]

just a little bit better.

[B]

And all of a sudden you solve all the problems that you just talked about.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. But I think it starts with, it really starts with productivity and efficiency. And now it, it's a complicated thing again. It's not like you flip a switch over like the efficiency switch and were all of a sudden better. No, but like, I think a company like you guys, it's a great example of. Listen, we've invested. We were like a standard construction company five years ago.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We started to do things a little bit better and over a five year period, chipped away. Chipped away, Chipped away. Now we're doing more work. Now our people are happier. They're not Leaving. And we're making more money to invest even further.

[B]

And that's. And that's all, that's all we've done. So we've grown in five years. We've 5x times the size of the company. We've also 5x our profit, which is. Is crazy.

[A]

While spending that much money on machines.

[B]

Yes. And the machines are just. We're just reinvesting. We're taking everything that we're doing and we're just keep reinvesting into the company. Like we reinvest. And all of the sudden we don't have a labor problem, we don't have a people problem, we don't have a turnover problem. Because this environment that's been created and it's, it's all people driven. Right. Like, if you don't have the right people, you don't have anything. So you can. We go out by all the machines and all the tilt rotators and attachments. But we've created this environment in this culture, and we're so blessed and it's truly the only way. Word that I know how to describe it, to have been able to attract this insanely talented and mostly younger group of people that are coming in that want to do this work because they see the different equipment. You know, it's. Our competitors are doing things the exact same way that they've done for a long time. It's not too hard to look over the fence and see how we're trying to do stuff. And for that guy that's looking over the fence to be like, wow, that looks different than what I'm doing over here. And then all of a sudden they decide to make a change and we have happier. I think we have a happier labor market, I think we have a happier operator market, and I think we have a happy, A happier supervision group. Because all of these things are starting to work together and people are, they're working harder and smarter.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's not work harder, you know, you know the saying, right?

[A]

Like, no. Which. It's a dumb.

[B]

It is.

[A]

The more, the more I hear, the further I get. These sayings are dumber and dumber and dumber. So.

[B]

But it's like work harder and smarter.

[A]

Sure. Yeah.

[B]

Do both.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You can do both.

[A]

But your, your guys within this equation, they're also making more money than ever. Like your wages are higher than ever before.

[B]

Yes. Because we, because we have the money now to reinvest into the people and get. And give them more money. Money. So it's just like this progressive loop that just keeps spiraling upward.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is so awesome because we do well. We want them to do well. We want everybody to have a happy life. Because there's no point in coming to work if you're not happy. Like, sure, it's too hard not to

[A]

smile throughout the day or, but, but even within, like, I think wages are a big issue in a lot of. Even in Denver.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I don't think I'd work construction in Denver. The wages just aren't there.

[B]

It's. It's pretty cutthroat.

[A]

Dude. If I wanted three kids now. No, no. I might. My spouse would have to work. And even then it would be pretty snug.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If I was working 60 hours a week, like, it's, it's that brutal. And even where I came up in Arizona, I mean, it's, It's, It's. It's tough. In a lot of markets in the states, the industry has to become more efficient. That's the only way to raise wages.

[B]

It's the only way. It's the only way because otherwise, you know, everybody, you know, the companies still need to be profitable in order to be. To. To maintain it. I mean, everything is expensive. Insurance is expensive. I mean, equipment's expensive. All of. Everything that you have to do is expensive. So the only thing that you can do is become more efficient. Yes. And once you do that, you can start to disperse those dollars throughout the company. And again, it just spirals upward.

[A]

If you're smart.

[B]

I mean, I, you know, I have not been. There's a lot of things that we could save. And that. One of the. That's a, That's a kind thing, but, you know, I've definitely been guilty of not being smart before, but paying attention to what works was one of the best things I've ever done. And paying attention to what works in Europe, because they had a similar problem. Right. Not so, not so long ago.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

They had the exact same problem that we're having. And then Earth talked about that too. Is like they had this labor issue. They had this inefficiency issue.

[A]

They figured it out, and that's what's cool. Again, going back to Europe, it's like. It's kind of like looking into the future, you know, 10 years, 15 years.

[B]

Like, I would almost say 20.

[A]

Yeah. Probably in a lot of ways. Yeah.

[B]

It's almost 20 years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because when you look back at some of this, like when you go to certain places in the country, which you've seen way more than I'll ever See, it's. It's gets pretty archaic.

[A]

Yeah, it's pretty rough.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Even there was a comment with some of the guys this week about how good your guys look. It's like everybody's looking good. It's like. Yeah, that's. That's part of it. Yeah. That, to me, is not surprising because again, you go to the European sites, you can. You can be a few blocks away and tell. It's a. Tell what company is doing the work based on the colors and how their people look. But everybody's buttoned up. Like, again, at that airport project, there are three companies out there. All three of them were massive, massive infrastructure companies. They were all wearing different colors. You kind of knew who was who.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Without a doubt what uniform they were wearing.

[B]

Yeah. And I think that comes. I think all of our team members have. That's come from pride in what they do, because all of a sudden, they're starting to take pride, not only in their work, but in themselves. And. Yeah. That. When I heard that they're like, wow, you guys. All your guys really look good, I was like, that is like, one of the best compliments that I could have ever asked for. Because that shows me that everything that we're trying to do is working. Because all of a sudden, our people are taking tremendous pride, not only in their work, but in themselves. And that is one of the best things that I could ever even attempt to ask for.

[A]

But. And they're working hard, but they don't. They're not sitting around looking like slobs, either. Like, they're. Yeah, they're pretty well put together. And also it's partially the Hispanic thing as well. Like the shirts that they. They like to wear.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Because I told them too. Like, when I came up when I was 18, I went and bought a bunch of those shirts to fit in, to try to fit in. I didn't. It didn't work, surprisingly, but I was working with all Mexican guys.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they all were like, the Pearl Snap. The Pearl Snap shirts, for sure. So I went and bought a bunch of them from the thrift store, and that's what I worked in for years, which is.

[B]

Yeah, no, for sure. And they have. They have a tremendous culture. But, you know, I do think people, at least in our team, have really sort of gravitated to that style of, you know, professionalism is one of the most important things that we can do on a job site. So you take the equipment out of it, you take the technologies out of it. You know, being professional is. Is A huge part of the, the culture of the company.

[A]

Like, but as a young guy, like if I was, if some, some younger guy was like, how do I get ahead? Well, show up on time, take care of yourself. Like eat well, read a book every once in a while. You know, think for, develop yourself and then look good.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Like, look put together. Like buy some collared shirts, tuck your shirt in, have a nice belt and clean your truck. Make sure it doesn't look like a bunch of shit. Take, take care of everything around you. Make it look good. Like that is one of the, one of the easiest ways to get way ahead.

[B]

Look smart, be smart.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just without a doubt it goes a long way. Just work hard and just ask questions.

[A]

Well, that's part of it too. Yeah. You have to put the effort in. But there's some simple things that most people don't do. Like if you're the guy that shows up 10 minutes early with like no matter what, that in itself builds a huge amount of trust with those around you.

[B]

And the appearance thing, just like you're talking about, like take two, take two excavators. Take one that's 10 years old, that's painted up super clean. Or take a brand new one that's completely beat to. The cab is dented, glass is missing. That's like five, you know, it's got 25 hours on it but it's beat to hell.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Guarantee you a hundred percent of the time operators are going to want to work in the clean machine that's nice and clean and tidy and they're going

[A]

to keep it clean.

[B]

And it's the same thing as a, as a business owner, if you look at two different people, there's the guy that's not put together and that versus the guy that's over here professional and put together and dressed well, which one do you think you're going to want to hire?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Even. But even with, with your machines, I like how you've done it because you haven't necessarily painted the whole machine. Like you haven't spent really a lot of money on the branding. But you know what, machines are yours because it's, it's, it's done very well, which I like. Like even contractors, if they were to do one thing, it's like brand your stuff in an intelligent way, in a tidy way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You don't have to spend a bunch of money on it. But why do you have cat stickers on your machines?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Take those damn things off and put your name on it.

[B]

You have this giant billboard. Use it.

[A]

Why not use it? Yes. And it makes the guys running it proud. It creates this image that's that you can't, you can't go and buy and that, that, that, that will make your company so much more money and that will bring so many more people into your business.

[B]

Thousand percent. I mean the branding. So in 1960, when they, my grandfather and his brother in law started the company, they bought a Ford dump truck. And that Ford dump truck came yellow from the lot. And that's what our company color is, is a 1960 Ford Yellow. Ironically, Jake was looking it up to get a paint match and somebody said it's champagne yellow. And I was like, well that's perfect. That's very fitting for us. So. But yeah, we just put a little like a little hint of yellow on the cab guards and then you know, our dump trucks and then our pickup hoods are. Have a, our yellow in. We've tried to do it in a, in a tasteful way, but image, especially with our clients is a, is a big deal. Like they, these machines, these job sites, everything needs to look the part for the clients that we work for. It's a big deal.

[A]

It's a big deal here, but I think it's a big deal anywhere.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

I remember like I was a little butthurt because I was the only guy that didn't have a Pearson construction vest. I just had a normal plain vest. And I wanted the company brand. I wanted to be part of the team. And I never got one and I was a little bummed out and I don't think I got one the next summer. But then when I went to Skanska, I got a Skanska vest. Dude, I felt like a million bucks. And if that makes me superficial, then guilty as charged. But seriously, same. I felt better putting on like the company vest.

[B]

Yeah. Rocking company colors of any brand is, is just you make. It makes you feel part of the team, right?

[A]

Yeah, it's human.

[B]

If you're not doing, if you're wearing just a standard safety vest that doesn't have everything else on it, but everybody else that you're working with has like the company branded safety vest, you're not part of the team. Right. So like it's one of the simplest things to do. Get safety vests that are branded your company and give them to everybody hard hats like it making people feel part of the team, part of the culture, part of the process. Agree with you. It's not just for us because of it's it's super important to me because it's important to our clients.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But if I was in the middle of Nebraska, I would do the exact same thing because it's important and I know how important it is. So I agree with you. I think everyone should pay attention to that.

[A]

Yeah, No, I, I just, we've been here so much because I appreciate what you're doing and I want to get the word out to other contractors. Like, can you guys do this too? Because it makes the whole industry better.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, that's where we need to get past the whole, oh, everybody's my competitor. Like, you know, I get it. Like, I get everybody's in this feast or famine mentality in this world. Like, I understand that. I'm in business too, but I think we're at the point where it's like, we all have to get better. And, and if, and if everybody's better, it makes the whole industry better. Without marketplace better, whole labor force better. Like, and, and, and no one is standing up for this industry. I think that's what is lost on people. Too.

[B]

Agree.

[A]

Everybody's like, waiting around for, like, well, who's gonna say we're important? Nobody. That's, that's, that's your job, dude. Like, that's you. That's, that's your responsibility. And if everybody does that, that creates a huge impact. But if you're waiting for somebody to do it, which is where most people are at.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I appreciate you saying that. I mean, we, again, what we're doing is nothing earth shattering. We literally went across an ocean, saw what somebody was doing, and hit the

[A]

copy and paste button which they're putting on Instagram.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You don't even have to go there now.

[B]

No. Yeah. I mean, and we just saw that it worked. And then when you come here and we see other contractors and other competitors, that, man, man, that looks hard. If you told me that I had to start over and go back to doing it the old way, I'm out. Like, hard out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, thank you. I would not do it.

[A]

Was it, was it hard getting your, your, your crews to really understand how to use this stuff in the right way? I mean, because it is, it is a different way of working.

[B]

It's a different way of working. I. No is the answer. Like, they jumped onto it and gravitated to it so quickly because they saw in like, again, if you see oil quick and you see how fast it works and how quickly you can change attachments, it's like a no brainer. As an Operator. It's even better because you're the one that doesn't have to do that work anymore. So you have that then you have the, the Tremble side of it. And we are so blessed to have some of like just some really, really special people, Raul and Jen, who do all of our modeling for us. And Trimble has been like an incredible partner really. They, you know, they reached out to us. We started the subscription process with them very early on which allowed us to take, to just jump in full headfirst and get all of our machines basically to have Trimble on them. So now anytime that a machine is uneven, even before it's unloaded on the, on the job, it's already got the model built into it. And then the operators like they get to just go color inside the lines. But what that does to their confidence too. Like I've been an operator running a piece of equipment and be like, man, I think this is where the corner of the foundation is. But I'm not 100 sure. But I'm also running really behind. So I need to just keep digging. And like not sure that you're always 100% positive that you're doing the exact same thing that you need to. The exact thing that you need to be doing with Tremble. It's a no brainer. You just look on your screen, you're like, yeah, I still need to go down another foot and a half or I'm still, I need to go over here a little bit further to get into this corner. And that's just a simple example. But the amount of confidence that that gives the operators and the whole. That gives me, because I know that they're out there just doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing is like invaluable.

[A]

It's interesting too though because now that you've been on this journey, you've. I feel like you've gotten a lot more attention from Trimble, from ami, from who else? Oil Quick.

[B]

Yeah, from Caterpillar.

[A]

Like you've, you've. Because you're pushing the limits. I feel like they're more inclined to be working with you as well.

[B]

I mean Caterpillar had a 963 trackler with a dozer Blade at Con Expo.

[A]

Yeah. Did they really? Yeah, I missed that. Really? For the demonstration part.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow. Huh?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. They'll never say it was your idea though. It was a hundred percent Cat's idea. It's only. That's a good idea.

[B]

I don't, I don't. Yeah, I don't need it. I don't need any credit. Just the fact that it's happening is awesome.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I know Trimble has tested stuff with you. I know you've been part of equipment development groups. I know you've been able to build attachments that don't exist.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because these companies, like ami are willing to work with you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, even just that advantage, I think, is significant, for sure.

[B]

And all of the companies that you just listed have been, like, this incredible partner. And again, we're. We're smaller comparatively. You know, we're not that. Not that big. But they all have listened and they all have been like, okay, we'll try this. We'll make this work. I mean, ami with the dozer blade for the track loader was like, I don't know, you know, and all of a sudden they did it, and they've sold one over in Germany. They're getting ready to sell another one in Australia. There's people in the United States that are starting to buy them. The. You know, we put oil quick on the very first track loader. That wasn't a European thing, that was a US thing. We were the first ones to have full 3D GPS on a track loader also. So, yeah, once you. Once you, like, start down the road of the oil quick, the tremble, we start to have our own ideas of how we can make our company better.

[A]

Exactly. But now. Yeah, now you're not just looking to others for inspiration, you're finding it within.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

The machine you've created as well.

[B]

Without a doubt.

[A]

Which is awesome.

[B]

Yeah. And it's so fun to be able to do that type of. That type of work, to be on that level of, like, integration and the thought process and the progressive thinking on how. How can we make our company better? Like, we've seen all of the things that Europe's been able to show us, and, like, now let's start focusing on, like, what are our ideas? How can we make our ideas. Ideas work for us and what works for our projects?

[A]

Yeah, our region, our people. Yeah. That's so much fun.

[B]

It's. It's been unreal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, it's been a really cool journey. And again, every single company that you just listed has been so gracious because, you know, when we first reached out to the Cat for the VA Booms, it was like a hard no. It was like, no, we're not bringing that. It's a. That's a European market machine. It's not coming to the North American market. And it took Some really great people at Caterpillar, some really great people at Wagner Equipment to keep pushing and pushing until we got the first variable angle boom. And now we have like 15 of them.

[A]

It's amazing. Yeah.

[B]

We won't buy an excavator without a variable angle boom. Just won't happen.

[A]

Except for the big one even.

[B]

Well, the 352, but our new 340s, we're getting the first two 340s in the, in the US with VA booms.

[A]

It's pretty cool.

[B]

It's so exciting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

235-3 19s are coming with, with VA booms too. And so all of the things. And then, you know, obviously, you know, it's no secret I geek out on track loaders. But what we've been able to do in that world and how much more efficient we're making those machines for us is it's kind of mind blowing.

[A]

I think there's still a ton of potential with those two with, I mean,

[B]

it's such an untapped, like resource. And it's so funny to me too because that is like the machine that was like the staple on every single job up until like the early 70s.

[A]

And I think it's partially because they do require a lot more skill to run. To run, right? I think they do.

[B]

To run, right?

[A]

Yes. Yeah. Not to run. You can, I could make one go back and forth.

[B]

You can go pick up a scoop of dirt and move it over and dump it.

[A]

Yeah. But to really understand how it works, what you can do with it.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And then to toggle between so many different tasks.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So quickly it's. But again, seeing one of those used properly is just something else for sure.

[B]

And that was the main reason is exactly what you just said is the reason that I wanted to do the six way dozer blade. Because you can do everything with a track loader that you can do with a dozer with a VPAT blade on it. You just have to kind of set yourself up a little bit differently. You have to put a little bit of dirt under your, under your track. If you want to get on a slope, you have to cut at a different angle. But a dozer is so simple because you can just tilt an angle the blade. So it's like, all right, let's take, let's take the operators that don't have the 20 years of experience running a track loader, let's give them this attachment and see if it makes their lives a little bit easier. And all of a sudden it, it did it worked. And they're doing all this finish grading with it and it's again, it was our development so there's some kinks still to work out, but we're working with this really cool company, David's Dozer.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And they're going to have automatics for that six way Dozer blade and like the next two weeks.

[A]

It's amazing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so. And it's not a cheap setup. However, it's cheaper than having a D6N out there as well that you're going

[B]

to use for a couple hours.

[A]

A couple hours?

[B]

Yeah. So if you're like, well, I need a loader, but in order to do some of this I need a Dozer and then, oh, I got to have a track hoe over there because I have to dig because I had to dig. Okay, so you're going to bring three machines over and. Or we can bring one track loader with all these different attachments.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So yeah, it is expensive, but it's a heck of a lot cheaper than putting three machines over there.

[A]

Even the track loader thing though, just how many comment how, how negative people are with track loaders, it's wild. It's so funny. It's, it's so. It's like if traveling has done, if traveling to all these job sites has done one thing, it's forced me to be open minded. And so if I see something that I don't understand, I don't immediately say, that's stupid, which is where most people go. It's like, wait a minute, why are they doing it this way? Because they're incentivized to do things in the best way they think possible. So if they're doing it this way, there's probably a good reason for it. And like 97 out of 100 times there's a pretty good reason for it. I ask, I'm like, why are you doing it this way? They're like, oh, xyz. I'm like, wow, that makes perfect sense. That's brilliant. Good for you guys figuring this out. And then I'm like, well, I just learned something new today.

[B]

Y and there's so many different. The geography across the United States is so different. There's so many different markets. So yes. Is it right for everybody? No, but being open is. I agree with you. Everybody's very close minded.

[A]

But that, that's what I was telling people this this week. It's like, this is a very different market. So I'm not suggesting everybody does what Shay does. That's unrealistic Right. But there are principles here. And the question needs to be how do I apply these principles to my business, to my market it? And that's where I think the real, the real magic is. And that's why I brought this group out, because I'm like, these are the guys that'll actually do it. Which I like.

[B]

Those were the guys that were 100. Like, okay, I'm gonna change some stuff around.

[A]

Huh? Yeah. I mean, Judd was getting quotes for track loaders. Yeah.

[B]

He's got one coming. Well, it's ordered, it's on its way. I was like, wow. Okay. Badass. Good for you, dude. Yeah.

[A]

They don't, they don't mess around when they see something that like, wait a minute, this is a better way to do things. And it's going to look different at each business because each business is different. The kind of work is different. But, but there are common principles that apply everywhere that I believe in. Even from a brand standpoint, it's like, I believe brand works anywhere. I think that's just a common principle.

[B]

Without doubt. Without a doubt.

[A]

And it's just, it's really low hanging fruit. And yet again, still there are more and more contractors getting behind it. But even that still like a. I'm kind of thinking about it, but I don't know, man. It's a lot of money.

[B]

I don't know if I want to spend that much money.

[A]

It's a lot of money.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. What's the roi?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

Yeah, it's. But it's, it's so money well spent. Yeah. And again, you can't look at. So I don't think you should look at something of how. What it, what it costs you. I think you should look at it what it saves you.

[A]

No. And even with, with people getting into the industry, I would suggest, like, what does the company look like? Do they look like shit or do they look good? If they look good, it's probably a pretty good company.

[B]

Without a doubt.

[A]

It's probably a company I'd go to

[B]

work for or a company that I want to hire.

[A]

Yeah. You know, but I think about this all the time. Like, is this a company I'd want to work for? A lot of times it's not for all different reasons, but I don't know if they're just another contractor that doesn't get me all that excited.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I don't really want to go to work for them. I want to go work for the best. And so. But, but the best, they look better. They Perform better. They're better.

[B]

Yeah. And they attract better people.

[A]

And then they attract better people. Go figure. But that's. That's what I want to be a part of. Like, if I ever went back to construction, which I think that ship has sailed. I'm not going to work for most companies. I want one that's world class.

[B]

Yep. Without a doubt.

[A]

Yeah. And a lot of that's just based on what they look like. What does their equipment look like? What are their counterweights look like.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, man. Scratch counterweights are. That's like. That is a. That is a pet peeve.

[A]

Yeah. And even I've known demo contractors that they'll have yellow paint in the crew trucks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If they scratch a counterweight. Dude. And if that's not repainted after you're done for the day, you. You're not there anymore.

[B]

No.

[A]

I've seen companies like that.

[B]

You're not coming back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. It takes five seconds. Like, just look behind you, Pay attention. Like.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

I don't know. It's a. I struggle with. I struggle with that. But these are tools. All of these machines are tools. And if you take care of your tools, they will take care of you.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's a very simple principle.

[A]

Yeah. I just. Again, I think the industry, though, gets caught up in equipment. Like, I think companies are a little too. They're too proud of how they do equipment. Yeah. Like, their pride almost gets in the way of a better way of doing equipment. And I talk to Randy about this all the time. Like, he believes a lot of contractors own equipment that they have no business owning.

[B]

Right.

[A]

He's like, I could pencil it out financially. It's a dumb decision to own a lot of machines. Like, if you're not putting certain amount of hours on it, you should not own it anymore.

[B]

Without a doubt. I couldn't agree more with that, too. And they just have it to have it. Or they're going to use it for this. Or just this one little thing when. That's where I believe the attachment game comes into place. Because it makes things a lot more versatile. Yeah. The versatility is just. Okay. Maybe you have one attachment that you only use for a couple of hours or a couple of weeks a year.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Instead of the machine that you have a couple weeks, use the machine all year round. Just use that one attachment for a couple weeks a year.

[A]

And that your utilization is crazy.

[B]

Caterpillar even comments on our utilization because they can see everything that we're doing through vision. Link Trimble has also Been able to see our utilization of how much we use Trimble, how much our machines are always running. Trimble.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They can look at our utilization rates, too, and say, like, that was one of the things that they brought up. They're like, you guys, utilization of Trimble is really high. And I think that was help. That's what helped push them to want to work with us and let us try different. Different things to see what. To see what works. So, yeah, I mean, we put a lot of hours on our equipment, which. Which has also had to change kind of the way we think, too, because these don't last forever. So we have to look at the replacement and rollover a lot sooner than we had thought. But we're using them, and we're using them well, and we're getting a lot of. A lot of work out of them.

[A]

Yeah. That's so cool.

[B]

Yeah, it's super fun.

[A]

It's really exciting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just. Again, I'm. I'm really excited to see where the next six to 12 months goes with some of these guys that came out this week, because it's like, I think they're going to go do a lot of stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's going to be pretty fun to see.

[B]

I'm going to call Jason, be like, hey, you're about to get your phone blown up, huh?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. You need to get some kickback on some of this stuff. You. You and I both need to be smarter about our kickback program because I've sold so much.

[B]

You know, it's funny, I. I got. I get asked about that even from Carly sometimes. Well, there's this dozer blade going to Europe. There's this dozer blade going.

[A]

Well, you.

[B]

You. That was your idea. I was like, it wasn't my idea. Like, yeah, I. I thought of a better way to do something, and, like, all I want to do is just. I'm with you. I just want to see this industry get better. Because if it gets better, we all get better.

[A]

And that. Again, I understand why everybody is so selfish, in a sense, because it is feast or famine, and when you're in this kill or be killed world, it's human nature. Like, I've just. I have to hoard resources.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, we're fucking squirrels. And when we find a stash, acorns, like, dude, I'm not sharing these things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't even need all these acorns. But I don't know. Next year could be tough. So I'm gonna go stash these things. Away, like, let's go. I'm not get away from my acorns. And that's kind of the game everybody's playing, but then it degrades everything over time. Yeah, it's not ultimately in everybody's best

[B]

interest to play that game, but okay, 1,000%. You're, you're right. But at the same time, if you can get to a point where you can start helping people, then you're getting asked by how to do things. Well, that's not lost on like the contracting world. Right. If you're really good, that means you're probably going to get owners or owner's reps or contractors that are going to be like, hey, can you help me work on this project? So that's become a lot of our work as a consulting to work on the projects up front because they've seen how we've been able to be successful on past projects.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So by sharing some of the things that we've been able to do has inherently brought in more business.

[A]

You mean sharing works?

[B]

Sharing is caring, baby.

[A]

Well, because, yeah, they ask, they ask you to come in to consult and then. Oh, by the way, you guys do this work, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, here's the job exactly when, when you design it and help facilitate how they're going to do it, they're not probably not going to go put it out to bit.

[B]

Nope. Yeah, it's, it's, it's weird how that has worked out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So by sharing with what we've been able to do has benefited us tremendously.

[A]

But there, I think this is also something people get caught up in the previous generation is that they think stuff is, is proprietary.

[B]

Yeah. It's not.

[A]

I've almost seen nothing that's proprietary in this world. I can't even think of one thing in the past few years that's legitimately proprietary.

[B]

Yeah, I, Yeah, nothing.

[A]

Essentially nothing, you know, like what you've done. Anybody can buy without a doubt, your tomorrow, your people, they can't buy like that's, that's I think the moat around the business.

[B]

Yes, without a doubt.

[A]

But, but anything you've bought, you've just bought it off the market.

[B]

Anybody could go buy it tomorrow. Like there's a. It's in the price pages. Just go get it, you know. But yes, the culture is the one thing that, that's been cultivated. The people have been cultivated. And that is, you know, that, that is my great. That is my. Our greatest asset. The word mine ever should, should come out. We have, we have an incredible team in that we are only successful because of the people that we have. Yeah, without a doubt. But all the other helps, like, 100. Like, it's all part of it.

[A]

It's all. Exactly.

[B]

It's all part of. Yeah, it's 100%.

[A]

Yeah. But it's not. It's. It's. It's nothing that somebody else can't do is the point. Like, the proprietary thing I think is. Is. Is total bullshit. Based on what I've seen. I've seen more job sites than most everybody in America.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And again, I've. I've almost seen nothing that's. You know, the one thing I did see that's proprietary is Wallow's asphalt core machine Fair. Okay. Like. Like, that's the one thing I can think about recently.

[B]

But I'm sure there's somebody else else could probably go build that. There's a lot of smart people out there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So somebody could go.

[A]

It's not that complicated in the grand scheme of things.

[B]

But they thought. They thought through it. You know, they figured it out. I mean, just before we came, before we came in this morning, I'm texting a gentleman from Australia and he's trying to figure out what size of blade he should get on his track loader for his 953. So, you know, it's a collaborative process. We should all be trying to help each other get better.

[A]

But you're. I think you're the one that wins too. At least for me. Social media, how much more rich it's made my life with the connections and relationships I've built.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

If you weren't sharing this stuff online, like, how many people have you met through this process over the past five years?

[B]

Untold amount of people.

[A]

Crazy amounts of people.

[B]

And such good people.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, this industry has some of the, like, the best salt of the earth, down to earth people. It's got some real shit bags.

[A]

Yeah. But they're really. It's quite rare compared to other worlds. Like, other worlds are full of shit bags for sure. Like, you want to go play in real estate, like, finance, dude, Good luck finding the good people with.

[B]

I know. I 100% agree. Like, most people are amazing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's got, It's. It. It's got its little.

[A]

Everywhere.

[B]

Everywhere. Just like everything. But for the most part, this industry has some of the best people on the planet.

[A]

They're just.

[B]

Most of them just good old boys that want to play in the dirt. Big sandbox.

[A]

But. But also, too, if you have a positive view of people, you Find more good people. I think too.

[B]

That is true too.

[A]

The people that have for some reason have all the bad luck, have all that just a super negative attitude about people and then I think it becomes

[B]

a self fulfilling prophecy without it. Yeah.

[A]

Then they just attract more and more bad people and then they get into more and more lawsuits and then they get burned more and more and then they get more and more bitter and

[B]

it's, it is a vicious cycle. Good people attract good people. Like good people attract good people. Like that's. It's all part of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For sure. Yeah. So we're. I agree. I think you and I are kind of in that way and today, this week was like the perfect way to kind of pull that all together is like everybody that we met was like a great human, just world class. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. But it's funny too how many people like you're not, not. You're not a big company in the construction world in the grand scheme of things at all. Like just. Yeah. Based on, based on just numbers. Like you're not, you're not, you're not a monster.

[B]

No.

[A]

And yet I'll be in like Alabama and somebody talking to me about you guys.

[B]

Which is awesome.

[A]

Which is awesome. It should in no way be happening.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because again, you're a local contractor working in a 30 mile radius in Colorado in a small Colorado town. And yet you're probably one of the people that is brought up most in conversation. Your company, that's pretty cool. But brand social media, just the reach that you have now is, Is unbelievable. Yeah, unbelievable.

[B]

It's really turned into something special. And you know, I couldn't be more grateful for all the opportunities that it's. It's allowed to us to, to have. From the manufacturing side to the equipment side to the people side, to the technology side. It's pretty, it's been really interesting how far reaching it's gone and the people that do reach out, you know, wanting to, to do stuff, it's. It's pretty special.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean it really truly is.

[A]

Sure. Well, right on. I know you have to go catch a flight, so we'll.

[B]

Yeah. Catch flights.

[A]

Call it a day. This is a little faster one, but I'm glad we, I'm glad we caught you. I'm glad we made this happen.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[A]

Thanks to Wyatt for coming out here and helping facilitate the on the road podcast. We don't do many.

[B]

Thank you to putting the group together because what a, what a. I mean there's some companies in there that are truly all stars, rock stars, and they do some amazing things, and they're the

[A]

ones that will push the industry forward. Like, frankly, I didn't invite the old dogs. Right. I didn't even call them. Like, they've. They've. They've. They've had their opportunity. They've got us here. But it's like, okay, cool, guys. Thank you. Thank you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

One. But now it's our. Our turn to do this, and we're gonna go do this whether you're with us or not. I would love for them to be a part of it, but it's on us now. And if you're in the way, get the fuck out of the way because we've got to get on with the program.

[B]

This train's going pretty fast.

[A]

It's only going faster. It is only going faster because it has to. Like, this is. This isn't a nice to have building the United States of America. We've got to figure this out. We've got to be better.

[B]

Yeah. Because we have real problems. This country has real problems, and we need real problems. We need to fix them.

[A]

Yes. Go abroad and then come back and you're like, oh, boy. We have to be better. And I think we can be better. And I think it starts with this industry, but it starts with us getting better first, for sure.

[B]

Yep. And we have a lot. We have a lot of work to. Roads, pipes, utilities, infrastructure. We just have to. We have to. We got to do better. We got to do it faster. Yeah. So we can get it done faster.

[A]

Yeah. Right on. Well, thanks.

[B]

Thank you. Awesome.