Strengthening America’s Railroads w/ Jeremy Pyler – DT 342

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Strengthening America’s Railroads w/ Jeremy Pyler – DT 342"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Dirt Talk by BuildWitt
• Host: Aaron (BuildWitt)
• Episode: Strengthening America’s Railroads w/ Jeremy Pyler – DT 342
• Release Date: May 29, 2025
• Guest: Zach (Note: Although the episode title mentions Jeremy Pyler, the transcript provided features a guest named Zach. This summary is based on the provided transcript.)

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1. Introduction

In Episode DT 342 of Dirt Talk by BuildWitt, host Aaron engages in a deep and candid conversation with Zach, a seasoned professional in the railroad industry. The discussion delves into the current state of America’s railroads, the challenges they face, leadership dynamics, and the critical role railroads play in sustaining the nation’s economy.

---

2. The Digital Shift in the Railroad Industry

Aaron opens the conversation by highlighting Zach's unique approach to leveraging the internet for industry communication, noting that many leaders still hesitate to share valuable insights online.

• Aaron: "What's unique though, is you. You're one of the few people doing that still in 2025. [...] You're sharing what the heck you guys are doing, which I think is awesome." ([00:17])

Zach explains his motivation to use online platforms to highlight the people around him, emphasizing the importance of community and support.

• Zach: "I wanted people to succeed. [...] It's about the people around me." ([01:54])

This digital transparency sets Zach apart in an industry where most communications are either infrequent or heavily polished, often perceived as mere PR.

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3. The Role and Impact of Railroads in America

Aaron and Zach discuss the indispensable role railroads play in America's infrastructure, likening them to the main arteries that keep the nation’s economy flowing.

• Aaron: "In railroad, it's so cool what you guys do and what the heck goes on to keep [...] If that shuts down, the economy shuts down pretty quickly." ([03:14])

Zach emphasizes that every product consumed in the United States has, in some form, passed through the railroads, underscoring their pervasive influence.

• Zach: "Everything you consume at some point has been on a train." ([04:02])

They also touch upon the limited public visibility of railroad operations, likening it to the misunderstood and often negatively perceived nature of law enforcement.

---

4. Personal Journeys and Backgrounds

Zach shares his personal journey, detailing his upbringing in Alabama, early work experiences, and the pivotal moments that led him to the railroad industry.

• Zach: "My grandfather helped build the paper mill [...] I decided, yeah, I'm done with this. Just today's my two day notice." ([08:57])

Aaron relates by sharing his own experience with investing in Union Pacific, initially driven by financial data before fully understanding the railroad's significance.

• Aaron: "When I found out that UP was making proportionally as much cash as Apple was, it was like, all right, sign me up." ([06:00])

These narratives highlight the personal sacrifices and motivations behind their dedication to the railroad sector.

---

5. The Cowboy Mentality and Leadership in Railroads

The conversation delves into the inherent "cowboy" mentality prevalent among railroad workers and leaders, characterized by resilience, hands-on involvement, and a willingness to tackle daunting challenges head-on.

• Aaron: "You have to be cowboy, I think to do it, you have to be a little. Little nuts." ([12:37])

Zach recounts his time working with power subsidiaries, illustrating the tough, yet hearted nature of his supervisors.

• Zach: "He had a history, but had a very good heart. [...] Hard, ruthless guys, but they had heart." ([12:13])

They discuss how such leadership fosters respect and camaraderie within the workforce, contrasting it with more detached leadership styles seen in larger corporations.

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6. Challenges and Safety in the Railroad Industry

Aaron and Zach address the critical issues of safety and accidents within the railroad industry, sharing harrowing experiences and the emotional toll of derailments and fatalities.

• Zach: "I could see the rescue people and different officials there. [...] It made me sick to my stomach." ([52:20])

Aaron reflects on public misconceptions about railroads, emphasizing the rarity of dramatic accidents compared to routine maintenance and minor incidents.

• Aaron: "It's supporting our entire society. [...] Or railroads bad." ([75:58])

They advocate for greater transparency and public appreciation of railroad operations, arguing that the good work often goes unnoticed.

---

7. Growing and Running a Railroad Services Business

Zach discusses the evolution of his business, HG Railroad Services, from its inception to becoming a nimble contractor that handles both minor and major railroad projects.

• Zach: "We joined forces with Hydrogreen [...] It was our first job. [...] We worked hard." ([63:48])

Aaron notes the logistical challenges of running a railroad services business, including the unpredictability of projects and the necessity for constant problem-solving.

• Aaron: "You don’t know when you’re going to solve the problem, where you’re going to solve the problem and what kind of problem it’s going to be." ([66:25])

They highlight the importance of adaptability and a strong work ethic in sustaining and growing within the competitive railroad contracting industry.

---

8. The Importance of People and Culture

Both speakers emphasize that the backbone of the railroad industry is its people. They argue that fostering a positive culture, investing in employee development, and recognizing hard work are crucial for the industry's success.

• Aaron: "There’s a, is a lot to be said there. Like those that I feel like the best in class, [...] they really make a deliberate effort to truly understand and recognize who is making everything work." ([24:02])

Zach echoes this sentiment, stressing the value of hiring the right people and allowing them autonomy to excel.

• Zach: "Hire the right people and let them go. [...] They are the ones that are making it happen." ([28:36])

They both advocate for leadership styles that prioritize trust, appreciation, and genuine interaction over rigid, detached management.

---

9. The American Spirit and Optimism for Railroads

Aaron and Zach conclude the discussion by reflecting on the enduring American spirit of resilience and innovation. They express optimism about the future of railroads, driven by a commitment to building America and adapting to modern challenges.

• Aaron: "This is the American dream. [...] You just have to be nuts." ([78:29])

Zach adds that despite setbacks like the COVID-19 pandemic, the railroad industry is poised to bounce back and continue its vital role in the nation's infrastructure.

• Zach: "Americans are resilient. [...] America bounces back." ([79:47])

Their shared enthusiasm underscores a belief that with the right leadership and cultural focus, America's railroads can thrive and continue to support the nation's growth.

---

10. Conclusion

Episode DT 342 of Dirt Talk by BuildWitt offers an insightful exploration into the complexities and significance of America's railroads. Through the candid narratives of Zach and Aaron, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the industry's challenges, the people who drive it forward, and the potential pathways to strengthening this critical backbone of the American economy.

Notable Quotes:

• Aaron on Digital Transparency:

  "You're sharing what the heck you guys are doing, which I think is awesome." ([00:17])

• Zach on Helping Others:

  "I wanted people to succeed. [...] It's about the people around me." ([01:54])

• Aaron on Railroad Impact:

  "If that shuts down, the economy shuts down pretty quickly." ([03:14])

• Zach on Personal Motivation:

  "My grandfather helped build the paper mill [...] Just today's my two day notice." ([08:57])

• Aaron on Leadership Style:

  "You have to be cowboy, I think to do it, you have to be a little. Little nuts." ([12:37])

• Zach on Safety and Accidents:

  "I was 100%. They haven't told me yet. I don't have a job anymore." ([52:20])

• Aaron on Industry Culture:

  "If you're not the guy that is getting in the work, you don't need to be the guy to get in the work." ([24:12])

• Zach on Hiring Right People:

  "Hire the right people and let them go. [...] They are the ones that are making it happen." ([28:36])

• Aaron on American Resilience:

  "We're building America. [...] That's the heart of business and the heart of this world." ([78:29])

• Zach on Optimism:

  "Americans are resilient. [...] America bounces back." ([79:47])

These quotes encapsulate the episode's core themes of transparency, resilience, leadership, and the indispensable role of railroads in America's economic and infrastructural landscape.

Transcript

[Aaron]

It was funny. I found you because of LinkedIn.

[Zach]

Right.

[Aaron]

A lot of people ask, like, how'd you meet this guy? Or how'd you go there? I'm like, Internet, Internet, Internet. Internet's been great for me. What's unique though, is you. You're one of the. So it's 2025 and the industry is still coming around to the Internet thing.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

They're still like, I don't know, you know, the Internet, maybe there's something there, but I don't know. We're gonna. Maybe, maybe not. And you see very few leaders in any capacity sharing anything of legitimate value online frequently. And so sometimes people share and sometimes it's good stuff, but it's either infrequent or it's just really polished nonsense. You can tell they didn't even write it came from a PR department, Whatever it is. Mostly with the big companies, it's just junk. It's. It's not worth the my time to even look at it. But you're. It's like every day you're just sharing what the heck you guys are doing, which I think is awesome. You're one of the few people doing that still in 2025. You'd think that would be everywhere. It's not like you're just like. Nothing's dressed up, nothing's fan. It's probably all from your phone or from your guys. Phones. Yeah. Yeah. So it's.

[Zach]

There's no computer involved.

[Aaron]

No. There's no, like, no fancy production, no fancy editing, nothing. It's just like, here's what the heck's going on.

[Zach]

Grammar train wreck skews upon.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but how, like, you came up in a world that is so anti that. How did you even come to do that in the first place, man?

[Zach]

You know, every once in a while you find the acorn, right? Yeah, I seen it. I seen the deficit there. There was not a big focus on the small businesses, just highlighting what they're doing. I think, moreover, and maybe it was by accident, was just trying to highlight the people around me. Yeah, people. I want people to succeed. Right. I want success for people. And I've shared with you kind of my upbringing. I wanted people to succeed. And it was more just let me just do this to highlight them. And it kind of caught on. It's like our slogan, that one call solves it all slogan. That's like the worst slogan in the world. Right. In some people's eyes. But it works. It catches and we solve everything. The guys, when I told them, they were like oh my God. No, that's terrible. Trust me, just try it. Yeah, but it's, yes, it's created a lot of business, a lot of clients, a lot of friendships, but it's highlighted our people.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Zach]

And that's what I want to continue to do. This is what we're doing.

[Aaron]

Well, I talk to a lot of executives about that because they think, well, I don't want to post on social media because I don't want a bunch of pictures of me on there. But it's like I don't even think I knew what the hell you looked like before I met you.

[Zach]

Right.

[Aaron]

And I'm seeing your post every day because it's all just the work you're doing, customers you're serving and the people doing the work.

[Zach]

It's not about me.

[Aaron]

No.

[Zach]

It's about the people around me.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which, but I mean, that's what caught, caught my attention. That's how I gave you a shout. It's like. Yeah, because in railroad, it's so cool what you guys do and what the heck goes on to keep. Like the railroads are really one of the like main arteries of America. If the railroads stop, we're in trouble. We're in deep shit. Yeah. I mean that's what like the whole railroad strike thing, that's why the sitting United States president had to come in the last time and say, we're actually not going to do this. That's really cool you guys think you're going to do this. We're not doing this. Because if that shuts down, the economy shuts down pretty quickly.

[Zach]

So everything you consume at some point has been on a train.

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Zach]

Everything in this room at some point in some form has been on the train. People don't realize that.

[Aaron]

It's crazy. I didn't realize that until I was on the railroad and then I was like, oh, this is a really big deal.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

But you never see it ever. So that's what, that's what drew me in with what you guys were doing. It's like, you're not the only contractor working on the railroad out there. There's much bigger fish than you guys that have been doing it long time since the railroads were built. But you don't see any of it anywhere.

[Zach]

No.

[Aaron]

No where.

[Zach]

Closely guarded secret, huh?

[Aaron]

Which for. But in my opinion, for no good reason. It's not top secret stuff that the heck's going on. And I argue that the railroads would get a lot more grace if they did show more of that because there's A lot. It's. It's like cops, you know, It's. It's. You don't see the good. You just see the one bad thing. That's.

[Zach]

Right.

[Aaron]

What do you. Now that you. The only data point you have is the bad stuff. So now what's the perception? It's all bad.

[Zach]

Right.

[Aaron]

What the heck are these guys doing? So that was like, one, you were sharing every day. Two, it's just like. It's stuff I hadn't. I knew was going on but don't see anywhere, which I think is extremely compelling.

[Zach]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think you're talking about the bad. The bad you see in the railroad. There's so much good that the railroad does. Right? Yes. They move freight. Yes. It's logistics. They do, but they do a lot for the communities that people don't see.

[Aaron]

Right.

[Zach]

Investments in communities, the yards they put in. Not only that, every class one that I've seen is doing something outside of railroading to invest in a community. Right. Donations and different things. It's just huge. It affects so much. Even just outside of what they haul.

[Aaron]

And how much they invest in their infrastructure and facilities and the communities they're.

[Zach]

In touches a lot of people.

[Aaron]

It is amazing. And I. So when I was in college, I got into investing. I don't know why I've stopped since, because I've invested in a company and that's put all my eggs in that basket. But I got really into figuring out, you know, what companies were where, and I would. I would buy what I believed in. And one of them is you. You Union Pacific.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And that was around when Berkshire bought bnsf.

[Zach]

Right.

[Aaron]

And everyone. They bought bnsf. Everybody's like, what the hell are they buying a railroad for? Like, that's kind of dumb. Like, what. What's the deal there? And they're paying how much for the railroad? They're buying a. They're buying a railroad. Is that really the best? Like, have they lost their sparkle a little bit? And then you dig into how much money they're throwing off and how much they're reinvesting in this infrastructure.

[Zach]

Huge.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

When I found out that UP was making. Throwing off proportionally as much cash as Apple was, it was like, all right, sign me up. I'll be a part. And this was before I ever worked for up, so it wasn't like I was on the inside. Like, oh, yeah, this is great. It was before I even knew what the heck they did. I was just looking at the numbers. I was like, this is Insane. This is crazy. What the heck's going on here? Because I can't go start a railroad tomorrow. I can't start Aaron's railroad.

[Zach]

I get it, I get it.

[Aaron]

It's just. It's such a unique business.

[Zach]

Just that whole BNSF mindset. You know what they've done? I mean, basically, they have created a pipeline, a mobile pipeline.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And they're laughing in the way of the bank. I've been for a long time.

[Zach]

So we can't build pipelines. All right, we'll make them mobile. Right. I mean, it's genius. Hey, look at. He is what he is for a reason, right? He's super smart.

[Aaron]

Yeah. You're gonna shut down Keystone.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

That's no problem.

[Zach]

No problem.

[Aaron]

The oil's still getting the refinery.

[Zach]

I know, right?

[Aaron]

Yeah. You guys, that's. I think the pipeline stuff's funny. You grew up in Alabama?

[Zach]

Ucla, upper corner of lower Alabama.

[Aaron]

Okay.

[Zach]

Everybody there calls it ucla, right?

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Dump truck Alabama. Middle of nowhere. Prattville, that's where I'm from. Which is a big town now. Spent most of my life there.

[Aaron]

Some would argue most of Alabama's middle of nowhere.

[Zach]

Yeah, it is. Pine trees. I mean, it's, you know, you got your major hubs, your Birminghams, Montgomery's, Mobiles, and. And then pine trees. I mean, that's pretty much it. Born and raised. Their family was from there. Came in from North Carolina. That's originally where all of my ancestors were from. Germany, North Carolina.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And then down to Alabama, war happened and grandfather and all of his brothers fought. There were five of them, and decided, hey, we'll. We'll settle in Alabama.

[Aaron]

Fair enough.

[Zach]

And, you know, long heritage of blue collar workers.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Dad, grandfather, I mean, everybody was, let's work hard and go to sleep when the sun goes down.

[Aaron]

They were at the paper mill.

[Zach]

Dad was at the paper mill. Actually, grandfather was too, for a period. He helped build the paper mill my father worked at. And he was on a survey crew and helped build it. And then dad worked almost 40 years in the same paper mill. Swing shift for 40 years.

[Aaron]

Yeah. So, yeah, you saw it growing up.

[Zach]

It was tough, right?

[Aaron]

It is so tough.

[Zach]

Tinfoil over the window. Trying to sleep, you know, it was. But he never normalized like we talked about earlier. I mean, he just, he hated his life. And then one day decided, yeah, I'm done with this. Just today's my two day notice. I'm done.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

He farmed some cattle. Farmed. And so when he was off work, he was working. He always Worked, sure, yeah. Today he doesn't do too much.

[Aaron]

You didn't want to go to the paper mill?

[Zach]

Oddly enough. So I worked there my senior year of high school. They had a summer help program. So last time they did this. By the way, there's a whole story behind that. Yeah, I worked there during the summer. We painted fire hydrants and washed down pulp decks and sawmills. You know, just manual labor type stuff. And it was fun. I enjoyed it. I got to. That was the first time I got to see my dad in his environment doing what he did, you know, that was pretty cool. But worked that summer and I went into the plant manager and met with him and I said, I'd really like a job here. I'd like to follow in the footsteps of my dad. He said, son, you know what? If you want a job here, you got it. He said, but I'm going to encourage you to do something. What's that? He said, get in your truck, pull out of the gate and never look back. I was like, really? He said, son, don't you see everybody here is miserable. They hate their life. Why do you want a part of this? I was like, legacy of my dad. He said, legacies eventually die. Yeah, I thought about it a minute. All right, I appreciate it. Have a good day. And I rode out the gate and I never looked back. Right. The same stinky paper mill that everybody to this day fusses about, I left behind, you know, and that rest was history.

[Aaron]

But I mean, that was from where you were. That was probably one of the biggest employers, if not that was part of the game in town.

[Zach]

Yeah. There wasn't railroad, paper mill, power company. Okay, that was it.

[Aaron]

All right, so. So then you went to try one of the other ones.

[Zach]

So I did, Yeah, I did. You know, so I worked little odd and end jobs that most people would do. I went to, went to college for about five minutes, you know, and my dad, you know, was helping me out at the time I was working, you know, while I was going to college, working at night. And I was like, yeah, this. I'm wasting his money. I'm having a great time and I'm not learning. So I moved back home and yeah, I went to work. Went to work for a pretty big power subsidiary and transmission line crew. And that was a whole experience I needed in life.

[Aaron]

The power stuff, I didn't realize how wild it is.

[Zach]

Oh, man.

[Aaron]

Like, I mean, railroad can get wild too, but those, those linemen, those power guys, it is, it can get western.

[Zach]

Yes, sir. Even today, old School methods.

[Aaron]

Wow. Yeah.

[Zach]

When I say old school, I mean these guys were, you know, we were taking ladders, transmission line crew. We were on a 115 crew, 115,000kv, and then we would go do 500kv at times. And they were taking buck boards, huge boards, and tying them off, using ropes and pulleys to get up there and change out insulators. I mean, it was nuts.

[Aaron]

And I don't say that as a criticism. I say like they're.

[Zach]

They're cowboys.

[Aaron]

Yeah, they're cowboy. You have to be cowboy, I think to do it, you have to be a little. Little nuts.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Because it is. I mean, it's. It's just different, man. It is.

[Zach]

So men among men. Like, I've seen it in, in the power industry. I've seen it in the rail industry for sure. The cowboy mentality. I think that's something that probably attracted me a little bit to both industries. Yeah, right.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

I left, left UCLA lower, you know, Alabama, and went to the power company. It's first time I'd really left State other than going to the beach occasionally with my dad when I was a kid. And my grandmother, you know, she helped me buy my first pair of boots. It was at Walmart. I wore those boots out first six months, my feet, like every night I'm having a doctor, you know, and one of the old guys on the crew that I thought a lot of, he was like, son, why are you hobbling so much? I'm like, like, man, my feet are hurting. He's like, why don't you buy some real boots? I was like, well, I'm kind of broke, you know, this is new. I'm trying to get into this. Had had a, you know, had a family to look after at that time. I mean, I got married pretty young. And at the end of the day, he said, get in the car. Where are we going? This guy was already questionable, right? He. He had a history, but had a very good heart. Drove me to the boat store, got me a good pair of boots. I don't have the money. He said, son, I didn't ask if you had the money. Get you some boots. Ended up having to pay him back, of course, with the interest kind of deal. But that was just the mentality that these guys had. They were hard, like hard, ruthless guys, but they had heart. And I look back at that, that period of my life, I couldn't figure it out then. It was tough, right? Hard work, but I enjoyed it. I like learning new things. And I look back that was necessary in life. And I'm glad I went through that. I'm glad I went through the hard times of, you know, getting, getting dropped off in the middle of South Georgia with a water keg and a pair of 10 foot post hole diggers. And we'll see it, you know, at the end of the day.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Zach]

Then I was like, man, this is stupid. There's got to be a better way. That was the way I needed.

[Aaron]

I think that's, that's. I, I did that before I got into construction. I did a few summers up in Montana and it was just me working by myself. So you'd get dropped off somewhere or you drive yourself somewhere and yeah, you'd be out there 8, 10, 12 hours. You know, you start in the morning when the sun's up, go to have dinner when the sun goes down. Then it's, you know, you're Montana summer, so the sun's up for quite a while.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And you're just on your own. And that was like, there was no music, there were no podcasts. It's just you.

[Zach]

And I got to know myself real well.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Yeah, you. It was probably like even just that isolation and that work was one of the more foundational things within my life because. Yeah, you've got nothing to do but think and you're working hard and you're like, this kind of, this kind of sucks a little bit. I don't, I don't really want to do this.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

All the time. So is there a better way to figure this out? Like, is right. But then at the same time, like, the lineman thing is just a great example. It's like, thank God for these absolute men that, that build the world and keep everything together that most people don't know about. Like, thank God for these people. And there's, there's women involved too. But you need at. Especially like the other day, the power goes out. I'm just sitting there. I know the guys, they're. They're out in the middle of the storm figuring this shit out while everybody's sitting at home fussing. Nice and warm fussing. We don't have power. And they're out there busting their asses to get it back together with. I mean, they're getting paid good money to do it. But like, you need those people. You need those guys that are crazy enough to be like, yeah, it's, it's all right. It's storming. But people don't have power. That's our job. Keep the power going. If not us, then Who?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

So let's go figure it out.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And without those people, I mean we'd be. Most people would be alive, they wouldn't be able to handle it. But we'd be in caves under rocks.

[Zach]

Sure.

[Aaron]

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[Zach]

I look back, you know, in that experience in life, I think that's where a lot of which I always had as a child had a mindset wanting to figure things out. How does it work? Let me take it apart, right? Let me take everything I got. I had to take it apart, right. Figure out how it works. But I look at the power company side of it, everything was so heavy. I mean you always use multiple pulleys and come alongs and it was just so neat the way all of it worked. Yeah, we went down to Katrina, Hurricane Katrina. We started at where the eye landed in Mississippi and we were a Georgia subsidiary and went over to Mississippi to help them out. And that was the first I'd been on storms, right? You know, a couple poles broke, but nothing to that scale. And just the logistic nightmare that was involved in it. I mean it was just wild. And that was the point, I think in my life when I realized maybe that was the big picture. Like I kind of understood better what we were doing and it made me hungry. Like I loved, you know, that cowboy mentality. Hey, I'm gonna ride in on my horse and we're gonna help, right? And you know, just, just complete devastation and able to go in and help and just, you know, get the necessary stuff. Get that. Actually we're getting power to the hospital.

[Aaron]

That was our first goal right yeah, yeah. But I think that mentality is essential. Like, it doesn't. And I don't mean, like, just ignore safety. I think safety is a big deal. It will continue to be a big deal. I'm all for it, but I feel like this is. It's a Western world and it should remain that way. Like, I think there's a lot of folks in offices trying to make it more sterile than it should be. And it's like, listen, you're. You're fucking with something that should not like you. You're going down a path you should not be going down because you're like, you're forgetting who does the work.

[Zach]

Oh, man, you're.

[Aaron]

And you saw this, especially politically with the unions this past election. It's like, you guys, have you talked to anybody within your union? Have you. And it was so foolish on their part because it's like they just showed their entire hand. And it's like, you guys are like, how. How aren't you supposed to be representing the people? Have you talked to any of the people you're representing? Some. Some were smart enough to, like, like, teamsters did a great job, and some others did a phenomenal job, but others were like, disconnect. What are you guys doing? Yeah, you are going against all the people doing the work.

[Zach]

Right.

[Aaron]

That doesn't, like, that's not productive. And we're sitting around saying, well, how do we get more people here? Well, we need to make it, you know, a place for everybody. It's like, no, but it's not like being. Being a lineman. Not for everybody. Being on the railroad. Not for everybody. Hard work. Yeah, not for everybody. So let's. Why don't we just sing that tune instead? And that's what's impressed me so much with Qanta Services.

[Zach]

Oh, yeah.

[Aaron]

They've done such a nice job with the messaging because they are, you know, biggest craft workforce in the United States. They're very buttoned up, very safe. They build all the big infrastructure, and yet they still really, I feel like, respects the people doing the work and putting America together, which I think is. Is just so important.

[Zach]

Huge disconnect again, a circle back. It's the people.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

They're missing the point. To your point.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Right. I don't. I don't necessarily. I don't know if it's like self importance or what, but, man, there's people that, you know, I can remember being with a railroad even. We'd be awake for days on end. And everybody had the common goal. Like, they didn't want to fail anybody. And I think there was a disconnect in leadership occasionally that didn't realize, like, hey, my people are staying awake two and three days at a time.

[Aaron]

I don't, and I don't think it's, it's rarely is it intentional. You do have the pieces of shit, but you have those people everywhere. You know, that's no different. But I think it's just. They're just so far removed. They just don't know. There's so. There's so many layers in between them and whoever's doing that work, who was ever on that rail gang or whatever it is. And when they do see it, they're driving by in a Suburban or something like that, or they're, you know, standing alongside and they come out for 10 minutes. You've probably seen this. Everybody's seen it. You know, they come out and they've got the, the new vest on. They, they, they don't really talk to anybody. They're talking to some supervisor. You don't know who the hell the supervisor is, but he's from the company. You know, he's. Some higher up, higher ups come out. They might come out in, you know, two rented Suburbans. I'm painting a picture. I know everybody has seen.

[Zach]

Everybody seen it.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And they, and they, you know, sit there and look at it. All right, I've been out to the field. I know what the heck's going on, but they have no idea.

[Zach]

Some of it. Some of it too, Aaron. I think, you know, they're trying to survive, too.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Oh, yeah. They're not. They don't have just that one project that's going away. They've got 65.

[Aaron]

Yeah. I don't blame them. Yeah.

[Zach]

And it's. I, it's probably tough to play that part. Right.

[Aaron]

I don't envy them one bit. And dealing with all the other stuff, no one deals, you know, sees the environmental stuff, the compliance stuff, you've got the SEC shareholder, global trade tariffs, whatever it is. You've got a lot going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there is a, is a lot to be said there. Like those that I feel like the, the best in class, those best in class leaders, they handle all that stuff. They know that's their job, but they don't. They truly, they make a deliberate effort to truly understand and recognize who is making everything work. And on, you know, on a railroad setting, that's those maintaining the tracks, inspecting the tracks, running the trains, maintaining the trains. You know, anybody doing the work, that's the Glue that keeps the whole thing going.

[Zach]

There's caveats out there. Right. We've got, you know, some of the class ones. We work for one in particular, One of the VPs there is on every job. And he's not sitting there in a new vest. He's hands on.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

You know, dogging off road re dump trucks, keep them flipping off the track. He is very. He knows his audience like he knows his people. He wants to be involved. He wants to understand what they're going through every day.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And that's such. That's a unicorn in the industry. Right. He prioritizes it.

[Aaron]

Yeah. But he probably garners way more respect.

[Zach]

Most huge respect.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And it's probably more effective as a result because he's in, he's, he's, hey, I'm here with you guys. And, and I think every leader has their own style. There's not one right way to do it. Like, if you're not the guy that that is, is, is getting in the work, you don't need to be the guy to get in the work.

[Zach]

Probably not like get in the way at that point.

[Aaron]

I would be one of those people. I would be getting in the way. But it's like going out when it's raining, going out when it's cold, going out when there's some emergency situation, or going out at night. You know, when it's, when it's less than ideal. Even just being present in a less than ideal scenario, that says a lot to people. And even just like your intention of coming out. People are really smart. They can read that stuff so well. They know if it's politics or not. They know if you really want to be out there or not. Like just by your demeanor, by how much time you spend, by who you shake hands with, by who you look at, by what questions you ask. That's all very important. Um, and I've been at companies where, yeah, you had those great leaders that would come around. I might not even talk to them, but you knew that. It's like this guy's in it with us.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

It's a damn good feeling. Damn good feeling. And then there's the other situations in which somebody from top brass comes out, maybe he looks at you, maybe not. You don't know who the hell he is, what he does, why he's here. You just know he's important. Everybody's like, yeah, hey, just be on your best P's and Q's, mind your P's and Q's. But it's just, it Leaves you with such this cold feeling, like, all right, maybe I am just a cog in the machine.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Cool.

[Zach]

Yeah. It's real motivating, isn't it?

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Right?

[Aaron]

Yeah. But it's a great. I mean, and I've fallen victim to this. Like, I got so buried with, like, what we were talking about last night, dinner, with all the financial stuff, that I lost track of what the hell we were doing as a business because I'm just in like survival mode. And there's. There's those times, too. But now that I've come out of it, it's like, shit, I need to get back into the business because I have been way too absent for way too long. And there's a cost to that, big time.

[Zach]

It's hard to spread yourself sometimes. Right. Trying to touch everything and everybody. And I see that in what we do. I think the fortunate thing about our business is everybody's so involved. I mean, leadership. Those guys, you know, full send all the time, just let me handle everything. And they're always involved and always doing things. And I think that's what makes a difference. They're just so involved in the teaching aspect and leadership, true leadership. Hey, let me show you. If you don't know how to do that, let me tell you about it, because I've never done it. Let me show you, because I have. Sure. And these guys are just awesome.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Or even just genuine curiosity. Like, I've seen this. You'll have executives come in. You've probably seen it a bunch too. You have executives come in from a different industry.

[Zach]

Right.

[Aaron]

You'll have some and you can tell pretty quick. It's pretty easy to know who has the right intent and who doesn't. Who thinks I'm Mr. Big Executive. I know what the hell I'm doing. I've had a 38 year career business, you know. Yes. I'm a businessman. I've come here to do. And then there's the other guys where it's like, listen, yeah, I have a hell of a resume. I'm here for a reason. However, I have no idea how you guys do what you do. And I'm here to figure it out. I'm here to learn it. And I. Please, like, yeah, I have no idea how a track is built. No idea. But they're not afraid to say that. And it ironically gives them so much more credibility if they come out and just. Can you just explain how you're putting all this together in a genuine way? Immediate respect. Yeah, immediate respect. But the traditional stance Is. Well, I can't. I'm supposed to be one of the guys that knows. I can't let these guys know that I don't know. Yeah. And then it.

[Zach]

Imposter syndrome.

[Aaron]

You come off like an asshole. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Zach]

It's tough. Like, I've seen it so many times, you know, even the rail industry, man, there's some good people, though. There's some really solid people that.

[Aaron]

Phenomenal. This is the minority.

[Zach]

Yeah, yeah. They get hired. You know, they actually, I was over the management training program a little bit for the class ones and really solid people. I mean, a lot of veterans, man, just solid, solid people that had no. Yeah, we give them like two weeks, three weeks. This is a crash course on how to land the plane to railroad. Right. And they'd go out in the field and some of them, like really thrived and some of them just like crash miserably.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Zach]

But it was always ego driven.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Ones that had a huge backpack of ego and they got ate up and swallowed. But it was always the guys that were, man, I don't know what you are doing, just like you're saying, but I'd like to learn. Right. And succeeded hugely.

[Aaron]

But that, that's. Those people with the big ego, they don't, they don't. They don't work in this world because no one has. They can sniff out the bullshit so fast. Like it really is a meritocracy. It's as close to a meritocracy as I feel like it gets in the United States. There's still politics, there's still nonsense. And I'm talking trades in general, but it's based on work. You do the work, whoever does the work gets the respect. That's how it goes.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And. And so there's just no. And I feel, I feel like that's what drew me in. Like, you go into all these other industries and there's just so much bullshit, so much politics, so much. So many snakes in the grass. Like you can just slither around and say the right things and do what you need to do.

[Zach]

Oh, man. Yeah.

[Aaron]

You know, jockey for this position, that position, play this hand this way, go over here, switch to this company, and you can just game the whole system. But. And I'm not saying you can't do it in the trades, but. But it's a lot harder because there's just the bullshit. The tolerance for bullshit is so you can't focus.

[Zach]

No rubber meets the road, right?

[Aaron]

No, no. And so, yeah, you have these people, these big egos. Come out with these, these folks that have been working their whole lives.

[Zach]

They're not with it.

[Aaron]

They're not with it. No, they're not. They're not just going to sing your tune. They're. You either meet them where they are or you don't. And if you do meet them where they are and you can do that in all different ways, it's going to be great for you. But if not, it's just not going to work. Not. Yeah, yeah. So you power stint for a while. We've already alluded to it a bunch. But then you spent a majority of your career within the railroad.

[Zach]

Yeah, yeah, I did. You know, I spent some years with the power company and man, just again, just a huge life altering experience. I'd never left home, you know, went to work for the power company. And I shared with you my supervisor foreman at the time, he was a non union manager. He would talk to me in third person. I mean just the most bizarre, you know, there'd be three of us in a room, he's not looking at me and hey, tell Junior I was Junior, right? Or Kermit, because I was new, I was green. Yeah, tell him to go do this.

[Aaron]

That's a good one, Kermit. I like that.

[Zach]

That was good. You may have to pull that one back out of my bag and use it. But was just tough. Just rant, raved and cussed and, you know, and here we are, you know, a lot of years later. I still talk to this guy once a month and I asked him, you know, why were you so hard on me? Why were you so brutal? We got a pretty good relationship now. I call him right now, you know, he said, son, because I knew nobody had ever been truly hard on you. And this was a rough industry and life is rough and I wanted someone to be tough on you.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And I respect that, man. I respect that. Now at the end, I hated it. I was like, man, I'm gonna go get a job at Walmart before I keep putting up with this. So, you know, fast forward some time. I think I always kind of had a desire to work for the railroad. My dad's father. We would the railroad run behind their house. Pretty, pretty big railroad. He'd slip back there and chew tobacco he didn't want my grandmother to know and take him a drink here and there. But we'd watch trains all day. I loved it. I don't know, it just was in my blood. And my mom's father, he was a railroader for 40 years. Engineer and I don't know. It just kept calling me and calling me. I was with the power company, had a pretty decent job and kind of got stuck inside during that period in the engineering department. It was good, you know, but I don't like inside too much. Applied for a job, and I was in the newspaper, showed up and they said, hey, if you can pass drug test, you got a job, like, no problem. Got it covered. And. Yeah, that was, you know, almost 20 years ago now. 18, 19, 20 years.

[Aaron]

That's. Yes. Yeah. You spent a while. Yeah. So, I mean, you're still in the world, but.

[Zach]

Oh, yeah. Just in a different capacity. Right.

[Aaron]

It's. I think the further I've gotten into business and the. The more data I've seen with new people coming in. I think that's an important role within an employer. And especially these younger, younger kids, they just. They don't really know how the world works. No one's taught them. No school didn't teach them past employment for if they've had it. Didn't teach them. Parents didn't teach them. They've been so insulated. And it's not their fault, but it's like, all right, we're gonna have to start with the basics here. Like, you don't. This is a. This is a serious game we're playing. This is not Little League anymore. We're not getting participation trophies anymore. You kill or you starve, you starve. That's how it works. And if you figure out how to kill the world, your oyster, because there's not a lot of people doing that nowadays, but that's still how the world works. That's how this goes. So let's teach you to work with it rather than against it. And some don't like that. Some do want. Nah, this is too much. I don't. And I'm still trying to figure out how to do it effectively, but.

[Zach]

I think there's a huge need and I've actually gotten to be able to do some of this. But there's such a disconnect, I think, about young boys and young girls. Nobody's taking the time.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

To show them the basics. Like, let me show you how to change a tire. I got a friend that owns a record business, and it's surprising how many people he picks up off side of the road to go change a tire. With dad sitting in the car and family like, you don't know how to change a tire. And I'm not knocking him. That's not what I'm here for. Yeah, but I think there is such an opportunity in life.

[Aaron]

He should get knocked a little bit for that, probably. So.

[Zach]

Trying to be nice.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

But there's such a huge opportunity, you know, and I think that's kind of, you know, what our business model is, bringing some of these young guys in because nobody's ever showed them. Nobody's ever taken the time. They haven't had anybody there. There's nobody in society that's readily jumping in. Let me show you how sockets work or wrenches or how to check oil.

[Aaron]

Or change oil or shake somebody's hand.

[Zach]

Talk to me, I don't need that dead fish thing, man.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

You know, and then talking like, yeah, you know, they don't.

[Aaron]

The amount of times I've had to say, have you called him?

[Zach]

Oh, I've texted him. Right.

[Aaron]

I've sent him an email text. And I'm like, have you called him? Oh, you haven't called him yet? I don't know, maybe try that. And then 15 minutes later, we got it sorted. I'm like, no shit. How about yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Zach]

It's necessary evil. We text in business. But I hate it. I hate it with a passion. Like, why didn't you just call and tell me that?

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And plus, say I'm from. I'm from Alabama. I'm not as fast as the biggest, you know, fastest gunslinger in the West. So, like, you just pick up the phone and call me instead of trying to text me. I make it figured out a little faster.

[Aaron]

But there's, There's. There's a lot of employers out there complaining or management within employers complaining that, well, these people just aren't. They're just not ready to work. It's like, but that's the opportunity. That's. Think it's the employer's responsibility. Or if I'm working with an employer, it's me as a leader. It's like, it's my responsibility to build that next generation up because no one else is doing it. So it's. I can bitch about it or I can say, no one else is doing it, be about it, so I better do it. Yeah. And if I do it, they're gonna win, and I'm gonna win. Like, it's not a. I'm not gonna lose. I'm not gonna spend all this time. And maybe some of them will leave, but I think most of them will be like, man, no one's ever like that guy. No one's ever done this for me. No one's ever tried to make me better. And they. And they'll be, you know, they'll become a little bit better and they'll be like, wait a minute, this is actually, I like this. I'm making more money or I'm a little bit more effective, or I can talk a little bit better. And that doesn't just help me at work, that helps me in life. Now I can talk to women a little bit better. You know, whatever it is that, like, that's, it's the, it's the basics that are missing. And if a company, if you can create a system that teaches your people the basics, not about how your company does things, that's important, but just the simple stuff, basic life skills, you can print. You can print phenomenal individuals at that point. If you can figure that out.

[Zach]

I think situational awareness, you know, I see it in society so much younger generations, and there's just no situational awareness. They're buried in a phone, they're buried in social media, they're buried in whatever they're doing. And I talk to our kids about it a lot. Look at what's going on around you. Keep your head on a swivel. Comes from the construction industry. Safety, right? Keep your head on a swivel, look.

[Aaron]

Around, see what's going on.

[Zach]

Just trying to instill it. But their friends come over in the same way. Let me walk across four lane looking at my phone. But just the opportunity, like you're talking about with these companies, you have the opportunity to get an employee that has no bad habits. You just gotta invest time in them to teach them a little bit in life.

[Aaron]

Sure, yeah. But it's funny, most everybody would say, yeah, I want the young kid with no bad habits. But they don't have the patience, the time, the system to take those individuals. Like, I think it's harder, it's more work, like hiring somebody experienced. That's the easier thing to do. Sure, you don't have to worry about them, they'll produce well enough. But that, if that's your model, it's gonna create substantial chaos because they're bringing all. Even if what they do over here was the right thing to do, it might not be the right thing to do. Bringing it with them, whether you like it or not. And, and I think those people are important too. But it's, it's the same, like there's no something on my throat here, like for building great team people culture. There's no easy way to do it. It's like anything else. The more time you put in, the harder it is, the better the Results. So even those experienced people, sometimes it takes longer to beat out, for lack of better term, those bad habits. And for them to even unwind, like, they're just so. Especially if they've been in, you know, a bunch of different careers or in this world for a long time. They've been so abused, probably.

[Zach]

Sure.

[Aaron]

I mean, I. It's. It's. It's a form of abuse, I think. I just don't see any other way of. You can call it bad habits or whatever it is, but you can. Like, a lot of people, just have their tail between their legs.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Like, damn, you've been beat.

[Zach]

Beat down.

[Aaron]

Yeah, you've been beat down, man. And it takes a while, like you for them to build the trust because they built so many walls up. And their shell is. Because they've had to just. They've had to survive. And wherever they've been, it takes a lot of time to peel that back layer by layer, because you got to be really consistent. And it's just time, too. It's just like. So they're really. They really do mean what they say. They're really not bullshitting me. I really can say what I think. Like, that sounds obvious, but you don't. To expect them to trust you right away is just. It's just naive. It doesn't work that way. Those experienced folks, too.

[Zach]

I think you had a guest on Vaughn, and something that resonated with me is hire the right people and let them go. Like, just let them do their thing. And that's been something that I've really tried to focus on. Get our people to focus on, you know, give them the training they need. Show them if they don't know, and get out of the way. Yeah, I'm an observist. I'm quiet. I'm gonna take it all in. I'm gonna look at things. But I don't like that helicopter mentality. Let me show you how to do everything. Hey, you're not doing this right. I can't stand that. Okay. If they're not doing it right, show them and get out of the way. Yeah, right. You've hired talent. They're here for a reason. Let them do what they do, but show them, you know, show them the right way. Yeah, it's work. It works.

[Aaron]

It works.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Yeah. So you did a long time in the railroad doing a lot?

[Zach]

Yeah, Yeah. I hired in. In the signal department, and I told you, my brain, you know, just. I've got to figure out how things work. Oddly enough. I, you know, Went out into the field and got on a job. And I was called and said, hey, the job's been abolished. You don't have a job. Like whoa. I just started. What do you mean? So they sent me to Birmingham, Alabama. There was an open position there. They made one and worked in a hump yard up there. And then did that for a pretty good while. And then.

[Aaron]

Explain what a hump yard is.

[Zach]

Yeah. Hump yard.

[Aaron]

Because I. I love every time I find a rail car that says no humping on it.

[Zach]

Yeah. Right. You gotta just get a picture, a meme or something.

[Aaron]

Oh yeah. Eight year old Aaron. Like that's hilarious. So funny.

[Zach]

Yeah. So. So unit trains. They bring unit trains into a hump yard. Right. And then they send them over a hill that has brakes that slow the cars down. And they sort them into different class tracks. And then those cars are built into unit trains and are sent out of the yard. You know, the first impression I had the very. It was the first week I went. I'm pulling up. It's still dark in the morning. And I'm driving, you know, beside the train going to my office. And I realize, hey, this train's coming off the track. Wait. All the cars are, you know, they're helping them down the hill. And something, you know, something happened. I don't know what. But stacking trains up everywhere. And that was like first introduction of something that still goes on today. Right. Trains wrecking.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And I thought, man, I'm gonna really like this.

[Aaron]

But that the, the. And the yard, like the mechanics of the yard. It's. It's on a grade.

[Zach]

Yep.

[Aaron]

So that the cars can travel freely because you're not pushing them.

[Zach]

That's right.

[Aaron]

Gravity while I'm over. And then they go from there. And then you're building out different trains essentially. Because each train's going to a different place. And you've got a. That's why these yards have so many tracks. And it all starts with one.

[Zach]

That's right.

[Aaron]

Because you're just sending one by one and then just sorting it to train 1, train 7, train 4. And that's going to Chicago. And this is going to Texas. Whatever it is.

[Zach]

Yeah. What's wild is that technology is so old in those yards.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And there's still solid state relays. I mean some of them are upgrading and getting advanced. But just old technology, you know, old dulce mainframes that build the trains. The consists to take that car to Texas or this one to Ford or Chevrolet or whatever it is. But it's a whole city. It's a beast. It's inner working, but it's on. There's so many people involved making sure it's all working and electronics and there's air. Well, guess what? It freezes sometimes. And air freezes. I mean, It's a nightmare. 24 7.

[Aaron]

It's. But that's. I am not. I'm a very visual person. That's what. That's what's so appealing to me about learning how the world works. Because I can see it like a railroad. I can see it. I mean. And you said you were drawn into the railroad. I mean, it's a. If a locomotive goes by, it's. It's like I'm a moth. And that is the brightest flame in town. I have to just stop whatever I'm doing. And just the. The sound of it just. Yeah, it's just power and. And then how much weight it's pulling behind it. Just. The whole thing is spectacular. But just how it's. It's. It's not very advanced. But I like that. Like, I like that we're still using the same rail that we've been using over set. You know, same building tracks the same way. The tracks are all in the same spot they've been in since we put them there originally. Like, it's. It's like how the United States was built was these railroads. And we're still using same railroads, some of the same bridges. The technology is still pretty similar in the grand scheme of things. You've got a locomotive pulling a bunch of stuff. The cars. Same principle. And I love that. And I love that you can see it all and, and, and really visualize it. And I know there's technology and like, you know, track inspection and this and that. And they have all their wizardry now, like any other world. But I like how at the end of the day, it's very simple. We're moving heavy stuff from point A to point B with a bunch of power.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Great.

[Zach]

That's awesome.

[Aaron]

It's awesome.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Yeah. The first time. Phoenix doesn't have a line that goes through it. So it has a. The sunset route goes underneath Phoenix. It goes through Tucson, but then it goes underneath Phoenix and there's a spur off that'll feed into Phoenix. But not that many cars come into Phoenix really. And so I would see it every once in a while. But I hadn't really been around the railroad until I went out. We were working on Sunset route, but out in California the first time one of those things went by. Me, you know, they were like, all right, you got to stand, you know, 15ft away from the track or something. I was like, all right, 15ft, that's good. 15ft is not very far from a fully loaded double stack. Double stack.

[Zach]

Enough time to watch it coming.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Ripping down the rail at top speed because it's as flat as can be. Middle of the desert. It's terrifying.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Like everything about it just scares the pants off you. Like. All right, I don't. I'm gonna be a little bit further behind back. I know you're saying it's good but.

[Zach]

Recommended, but I'm gonna add a little bit to it.

[Aaron]

This is too much, man. It's just, it's, it's. It's incredible how much power and everything about it boggles my mind every time I see it.

[Zach]

You know, I think with our, with our emergency side of the business, right. The derailments we go on, it makes you look back and think, yeah, maybe that 15, 20ft wasn't enough.

[Aaron]

Yeah, right.

[Zach]

We're pick. You know, those guys are picking up some mangled stuff. Right. And it happens in a second, a nanosecond. Right.

[Aaron]

Uh huh.

[Zach]

That's very unforgiving. Right. I saw some pretty tough stuff in my career where people, you know, took things for granted and didn't work out too good. You know, that's, that's the bad part about it.

[Aaron]

Yeah. I. For that reason, I never got complacent.

[Zach]

You can't.

[Aaron]

No, no, no, no, no. It was just too much going on.

[Zach]

I think that you know, statistically like railroad across the board, they'll say, you know, the employees that. And I'll probably mess the numbers up. One to ten years. Like they're pretty safe. And you get in that 10, 15, 20, they get in that complacency. Man. I'm John Wayne. I've done this before. Nothing can get me.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And those are the ones that get touched.

[Aaron]

Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. And it probably happens quick. I now I'm like going down this, this. I'm going down memory lane here. There was this one time when you said signal. So we were. We're building some siding track to allow, you know, you got the more important trains that let them buy that. Yeah. You pull over. We've got something important coming by. So we're building additional siding track. Middle of nowhere. Tacna, Arizona. Complete hole in the desert. Great burritos though. Gonzo tactimarket. Unbelievable. But we were building this, the siding track. So we were moving the dirt for it to get subgrade squared away. And we're gonna bring in material, impact it, bring it up to grade, bring in the. Bring in base material, ballast, etc. And the. We had a scraper running like a paddle wheel scraper pulling up the material. And I was out there. I was. There was a superintendent, and then I was technically the only salary individual other than that. They just needed somebody there. I didn't need to be there, but they just needed somebody there. So I was just. I was looking for shit to do, and I wanted to be helpful. I didn't want to just hang out in my truck. I wanted to actually help. But railroad has specific rules and union, so on and so forth. So my hands are a little bit bound. So scraper pulls up some of the signal line that was buried. And the signal crew comes over because they're working down the way with the railroad. And they look at it and they're like, oh, this is. We can just pull it out. This is.

[Zach]

We abandoned cable.

[Aaron]

Yeah, we buried it here for some. But it was. It was. It was newer cable. Okay, so, but. But. And it was like a spool, like a hole. They just buried a whole spool of this stuff there. But that's good. Pull it out. So we just yank it out. All right, so then scraper coming around maybe hour or two later, comes around, grab another bite, finds another bit of cable. I'm like, all right, cool. I can help out here. We don't need to. I don't want to bother the signal guys. I don't want to slow us down. I'm just going to go grab our backhoe, pull it out. So I grab our backhoe, I pull it out, scraper go back, goes back to work. No problem. Good. So then I'm standing around. Some of. Some of the other management maybe was in town or something like that. We're all standing on the tailgate, and they come over the radio. Hey, guys, Omaha just called in and they think there might be a break within our. Within our mile marker, whatever. To mile marker, whatever where you guys are working. Do you know of anything out there? And as soon as that call came over the radio, I was just like, son of a. Yeah. And it just. It made me sick to my stomach. I was at that point, I was like, I am 100%. I do not have a job here anymore. There's no way. And so I knew exactly what had happened. And I said, hey, here's. Here's what I think happened. And they just looked at me like, and they didn't say anything. All right, we'll get the signal crew over. So the signal crew comes over, and I have to help them find where I dug this out at.

[Zach]

I think it was here.

[Aaron]

I. I'm the one out there. It's like this. The shittiest treasure hunt in the world, Finding where. Yeah, where the broken line is. And they're sitting there, 115 degrees, middle of the desert, in a hole, repairing the signal line, splicing cable while fully loaded. Freight trains. This is one of the busiest routes in this part of the country. They're going by at 5 mph. We can't exceed that because the line might be broken. It's just like, oh. Oh, no. It was. It was one of the worst days that I've ever had at work. Because that whole day, I'm like, 100%. They haven't told me yet. I don't have a job anymore. But the thing that the signal guys. Coolest guys ever.

[Zach]

Like, all the guys every day.

[Aaron]

Yeah, they were as cool as cucumbers. Like, oh, dude, we. Yeah, every day.

[Zach]

This is not gonna make every time.

[Aaron]

No, yeah, we're good. No problem at all. And it was. It was fine. But they. I think they intentionally let me shit bricks for the whole day.

[Zach]

But he won't do that again, man.

[Aaron]

I learned my lesson big time on that one.

[Zach]

We had a few fiber cuts, fiber optics, you know, and just located the wrong place. And just always a disaster because it was always the big cell phone carriers and Department of Defense, like, helicopters come in, and Suburban's like, hey, Joe, cut cable. Come with us. We need to talk to you. But it was. It was everyday occurrence. Broke cable, cut cable, the technology again. And solid state relays, old, old wiring that deteriorates. You were always cutting and splicing. It was fun. I enjoyed it, right? I went into the signal maintainer, right? We had assigned territory 30, 40 miles, and we would inspect crossings, monthly signals, monthly switches, maintaining the switches. I think the toughest part of that job, because you had crossings, road crossings.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

There's like, one common denominator. People think they can beat a train. Yeah. Can't.

[Aaron]

Oh, yeah.

[Zach]

You never win. And, you know, and something that stands out in my mind, I mean, I was very young, into my career then. I was a maintainer, had my territory. I was calling like, hey, we've had a vehicle strike on your territory. I don't care how good you are as you're driving to it, you know, hope I did everything right. Sure, I Hope I checked everything right. Because I just checked the crossing the day it happened. Right. So I pull up and I look down the tracks probably 3/4amile, and I could see the, you know, rescue people and different officials there. And as I'm walking, I'm seeing kids, toys, records and TVs and furniture. And as I'm getting closer, it was a rental truck. Right. Penske or something. And as a father and son, both deceased in the truck, wasn't something we had done, the railroad had done, I had done. You know, they had a couple cases of beer and, you know, older. Older dad and son and just pulled out in front of a train. But anytime that call came in, you know, hey, we've had a fatality. Right. They would know pretty quick it was a fatality if it was one of your locations. It's like full vacuum, sucked air out of the room, and it just. It would weigh on you. Right. And I don't know what the attraction is with railroad. Well, I do. I mean, people love to take pictures.

[Aaron]

Pictures.

[Zach]

Right. I love to get up on the track and take pictures and cross the track and get hit. And it just. That's the part that's not fun. Right. You don't want that for anybody. And it weigh on you. I mean, I saw enough of it.

[Aaron]

Yeah. There was a video I saw not too long ago. It happened years ago, though. There was a wind turbine blade.

[Zach]

Yep.

[Aaron]

Gets stuck on the track. Yeah. And a plane, a train just tears right through it. I mean, it. It's fiberglass, so it busts open pretty good. But, you know, one of the top comments was like, why didn't they just stop the train? It's like, all right, let's have a physics lesson. It doesn't work that way. No, it doesn't work that way.

[Zach]

There, you know, there's blue placards, the pscc, the, you know, information at each cross, and just call the number, they can stop the train. Right. But everybody's in full panic. Like, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. We had one in town where car hauler got hit. He was stuck on the tracks, and he had plenty of time to call and. But you see it every day. It happens every day.

[Aaron]

It does. Yeah. The. There was a real dramatic one maybe two years ago. It was a concrete bridge girder.

[Zach]

Big mess.

[Aaron]

Whoa. I mean, it took the train out. Like it derailed, that thing.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Big time.

[Zach]

There's one in Texas here a couple.

[Aaron]

Months ago that was there.

[Zach]

Cause mass Carnage ended up killing engineering conductor. It's just one simple phone call too much.

[Aaron]

Well, or. And especially from a trucking standpoint, situational awareness. Well, plan. Yeah. Planning the route. Situational awareness. Like it's, it's, it's like it happens enough to know that it's just. Yeah. The trucking stuff is even more frustrating because it's like you're professional. This is part of the job. You need to understand your route and understand what the heck's going on here. And that's. Odds are that's probably not the only crossing here that you can be using. And maybe, maybe it is in the very slight off chance, but it's probably not. And it's just never worth it, you.

[Zach]

Know, lack of training. I don't know what it is.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah, it's, you know, I think it's a lot. It's not their. They're not doing intentionally.

[Zach]

Right.

[Aaron]

Like you're not trying to intentionally get something. A lowboy stuck on a crossing.

[Zach]

I see it more now. You know, there's huge campaigns, LinkedIn, you know, television campaigns, just talking about danger of crossings. Right. You see more and more railroads are getting involved because they're the, they're the change makers. Unfortunately, it's not their fault, but they're the change makers that, you know, trying to bring the awareness to the crossings and what's going on with them. And you know, that, that, that was the stuff I didn't like because it was so often, you know, just so often that things would happen and, and just, you know, the fatalities and children involved and I hated it. I hated that part of it.

[Aaron]

Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean, I think that's why law enforcement gets so jacked up.

[Zach]

Oh, man.

[Aaron]

See, all the accidents on the road.

[Zach]

They don't realize it's affecting them, right?

[Aaron]

Oh, no. Yeah, yeah. I don't think you do. Like, I don't think it can affect you to do your job. It's like later that it. It seems to get people because they've just seen so many things. Like it's not unique to the railroad. I mean, it's more. Way more and. Yeah, way more in over the road truck. Like trucking, for example, like the truck accidents. Woof.

[Zach]

It's tough. You know, I've got an uncle that's been in fire service, fire Chief for almost 30 years. Tough, rugged, you know, former, you know, infantry man in the army and just tough dude, right? He told me, he's like, I just realized one day I'm just irritable. All the Time and angry, and I didn't understand why. And then he realized, like, I've been looking at a lot of stuff.

[Aaron]

Yeah. I've seen.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Stuff no one should see.

[Zach]

We've got a director here, Office. Tyler man. And he. He was a firefighter for a long time. Paramedic. And. And he would share with me like it. It weighs on you. Get tired of seeing that stuff.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Zach]

Soldier. That dude's solid, man. Solid safety guy, too.

[Aaron]

So. So you. You did railroad thing for a while, Big railroad thing for a while. Saw a lot. Understand the railroad as good as anybody.

[Zach]

I think so. I mean, probably a lot to learn.

[Aaron]

Yeah, sure. Yeah. But, yeah, you. You've gotten around. Then you took a different path, Started up your own deal. Was. Was being like a railroad services contractor part of the original plan?

[Zach]

No.

[Aaron]

Are you just.

[Zach]

I don't think so. Yeah. So, you know, we had been through so much with the class one I was with. I mean, it was getting so intense and staying awake for days at a time, and I was just. I was tired.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

I could see everybody around me, head down, dragon. They were just tired.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

I didn't have a plan. I didn't know what the plan was. I knew how to run a little bit of equipment. Right. Still not the greatest today. I knew how to work and have a plan. So I left the railroad. There was no intention whatsoever of going into railroad. I started digging ponds. Right. That's a whole different art, man. I'm still. Still learning about that. But digging ponds got in the septic business. I was putting septic tanks in, and I enjoyed it. I mean, I'd work, you know, a friend of mine at the time and a couple people, and we just go work every day, living life. We'd be out in the middle of the country putting a septic tank in for somebody, and there's still something inside of me calling like, hey, I know how to railroad. I need to think about it. I need to think about it. I kept pushing it off, pushing it off, but it just kept calling that locomotive like you're talking about. We go buying it. It's like, man, I miss that. I miss that life. So, partner, vice president, company Zach. You know, I met him at a crawfish bowl. He was working for another contractor. And I told him I was like, man, I really want to. I want to get back into the railroad world. He's, like, interested in subcontracting. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, I'll do that. So we got our very first job. It was a derailment over in west Alabama and we got opportunity to go over there and put ties in. And the day of our truck breaks down, we have a lawnmower trailer. When I say lawnmower trailer, it's like a 4x6 trailer. We've put everything we possibly could scrounge up, tools wise that we're 30, 20, 30 years old that I borrowed from my great uncle who owned a railroad contracting business and a cooler, throwed it on the truck. Didn't really have the money to go do it. And we went to West Alabama and I pulled up on the job site and little old fella jumped out of a Ford Ranger that I recognized. I worked with him at the class one I was with. He was with a different railroad then. And he says, man, what are you doing here? You don't know anything about track. I said, yeah, you're probably right. I don't know a whole lot about it. I'd learned a little bit when I was, you know, with class one in training and stuff.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

I said, let me just, let me see what we can do. Man, we worked hard. It was July. Went at it hard, hard in the paint. Full sin. And at the end of the project, he come up to me, he's like, I owe you an apology. He's. I was, I was partially wrong. You don't know a damn thing about track, but you work hard. And he now works for us. Right. Because he saw the mentality that everybody on our crew has like, we're just going to go hard at it. So I was on my own then and I had a, had a good friend that, you know, I grew up with that was pretty successful in the rose control business. Right. And had built a pretty good, pretty good empire. Done some stuff for Scout, you know, and Landmark. I think you've highlighted some of that, you know, east of Mississippi there. But he kind of had it together and him and I would stay in contact for years and finally went and talked to him like I saw, you know, it's very hard to get into this business. Let me just decide. I'm gonna get a railroad contract because railroads take a while to pay well.

[Aaron]

And it's. It's a pretty tight knit circle.

[Zach]

Sure.

[Aaron]

And it's dominated by a few well known in that world, companies that have been doing it forever. Yeah, like some of these companies have documentaries, right?

[Zach]

Yeah, I wanna.

[Aaron]

That's how long they've been doing it. Like hour long history documentary.

[Zach]

Pretty good.

[Aaron]

That's pretty good.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

I think, you know, the one I'm talking about. And so it's not like it's, it's fraternity. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, it's a hard world to even join. Yeah.

[Zach]

So. So just from that aspect. Yeah, we could, we could do it and we were doing work, but just the amount of capital that it takes to run day to day is give you heartburn. Right. And thought about it and talked to him and a lot of prayer went into it and we decided to join forces. With me, with Hydrogreen at the time, you know, it's hg, that's our brand and HG Railroad Services. And you know, I wouldn't have done it any other way. I mean just, just the amount of. You couldn't ask for a better accommodation. Okay, what is your vision? Well, here's my vision. This is what I would like for us to do. Okay, here's what you need. Here's the keys. Let's go do it. And that's just been the mentality all the time.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Because it is, it's very hard to just go grab a backhoe. You can do it. You just gonna suffer for a long time. When we sped up, probably 10 years in just a minute.

[Aaron]

I gotcha.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Yeah. The. It's, it's, it's really difficult work too because you're not bidding on projects typically you're. You've got equipment on lowboys.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

You try to put it in strategic locations. Kind of the best you can do. Yeah, it's hard to do because you don't know what you're doing tomorrow.

[Zach]

Right.

[Aaron]

In a lot of cases, like there's some longer term track work or whatever it is that you're helping out with or some right away clearing from here to here, that, that we've got to do. But Helene comes through, storm comes through, derailment happens. Like you just, you just don't know where you're going, when you're going. And it's railroads, 24 hour, seven day a week operation. So. So you're not working typical hours. You just, it's like non stop problem solving. And you're oftentimes not building a job. Like you're, you're. Yeah, you're just solving problems is what you're really doing. You just don't know when you're going to solve the problem, where you're going to solve the problem and what kind of problem it's going to be.

[Zach]

I think that's.

[Aaron]

But you have to, you have to run a business on top of it.

[Zach]

It's always hot, it's always cold and it's always at night. You know I say that, I mean it happens all the time. You know that, that the cowboy side of the derailment service. I mean those guys. Wow. I mean they're, they're machines. They never shut down.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Pick up one huge derailment client calls, hey, we've got another one. They amp back up again. Let's go, let's go help them. You know, but that's the mentality across the board is let me help our clients, let me help our customers.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zach]

Sure. It's monetary aspect but there's like this instilled let's do the right thing to help.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And so the, the railroads hire you guys because you're just more nimble. Like their job is running trains day to day. And so they've got track crews etc, but they built, you know, they're working on large scale tire replacement, track replacement, large construction projects. Capital. Capital projects, etc.

[Zach]

Right.

[Aaron]

You, you are more nimble. You do the odds and ends.

[Zach]

Yeah. It's good description.

[Aaron]

Is that the best way to explain it?

[Zach]

Well, yeah, and I think that's kind of how it started, but now it's, it's kind of evolving.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Zach]

We're going in and doing the bigger track projects, bigger tie projects, crossings, because they've seen our capabilities and realize the efficiency of these guys in the field. Like they can get stuff done.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Zach]

Right. They're not taking anybody's jobs. They're hitting those. The low hanging fruit or maybe the jobs that will consume too much of the railroad time. They're shipping out and going and doing it.

[Aaron]

Yeah. I got you.

[Zach]

It's very fluid, you know, for us.

[Aaron]

Yeah. It feels, I mean the railroad has a lot of equipment, but it seems like they're. They're really geared up for the bigger stuff.

[Zach]

Sure.

[Aaron]

I mean they've got like when they roll in to do tire replacement or track replacement.

[Zach]

Oh yeah. It's a deal.

[Aaron]

It's no joke.

[Zach]

It's a deal.

[Aaron]

And they, they roll deep.

[Zach]

Huge train rolls in a bunch of equipment. Big production crew.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

You know, we're hauling backhoe and couple pieces of equipment.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zach]

Knocking it out.

[Aaron]

Yeah. But there's a place for everything.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

So it's. And yeah. Just the, and the derailment side too. It's the news likes to show the really dramatic ones that are just absolutely terrible. But that's such a minority. Like a lot of these aren't. There's no drama to them whatsoever. One wheel a grain car yeah. Has a wheel off and you come in, you plop it right back on. All right, we're good to go. Yeah, something like that. I mean, it seems like that's most of them.

[Zach]

A lot of them. We don't, you know, we don't see. I mean, we do obviously see the big ones, but it's. The day to day is just, you know, like you said, one wheel, two wheels, one end of the car. One car.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

But it's daily somewhere. And that's not a reflection of the railroad. That's just the nature of the business.

[Aaron]

It's a business.

[Zach]

Human error, you know, whatever. Whatever causes it.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

But we've. We've created an itch around that. We create, you know, our business. Yes. There's other people doing it. We try to figure out how to do it better.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Zach]

You know, these guys, they're all full send all the time. All about getting the work done. Let me figure it out. Let me Problem solve. And it's fun to sit back and watch. Like, you saw all these cars, you know, the big ones where they're all mangled up. And you sit back wondering, like, what are they going to do? I'm not seeing it a thousand times, Right.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

But there's always a new. Hey, let's try this. Let's try something new.

[Aaron]

Yeah. I wish I could show more of that stuff because the work is so cool. It is. Some of the coolest work I've seen is we did. Went out to this pretty. Pretty bad derailment. I mean, it must have been. It was out. Out. Not this part of the country. And it was. I mean, it must have been like 30 cars. 30 cars carrying iron ore. So they're real heavy. And I think a wheel went out or something like that. It just. Yeah, it just got too. Too hot. Yeah. Bearing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Bearing got too hot and it just threw the train into a pile and shredded. It was. It was double mainline. Shredded both. Both tracks. And it was like one time is money. So the railroad is just like, listen, we'll deal with the whole car thing later. We've just got to get the damn thing open. That's.

[Zach]

Throw them off.

[Aaron]

Well, one safety.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Anything happen? All right, good. It was in the middle of nowhere, but then two. Yeah. Just. Just yeet them over here. Yeah. Get the rail open. Let's get trains going. And then we'll come back and we'll figure out the rest. And that whole process is spectacular.

[Zach]

I see that a lot.

[Aaron]

It is so cool. And I Genuinely believe the railroads would be better off to share that stuff than not. However, I don't think that's happening anytime soon. So I can't get involved in any of that. But it's cool. It's really cool.

[Zach]

I think there's a. Definitely a positive spin the railroads can take. You know, there's so much to your point. We talked about it the whole time that people don't see. They don't understand.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

They see a train going by and I'm mad because it's delayed me.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Right.

[Zach]

But every product I'm touching came on that train. And this is what happens whenever bad things happen.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

You know, I think they're opening up to it more.

[Aaron]

I do. I think you're proof of that. Like, even honestly, the stuff you share, it's like. I mean, the railroads are seeing it. I think it's great for them. I think that's the best thing. They need the PR as bad as anybody else. I mean, boy, do they need the PR. From a workforce standpoint, from just an overall labor standpoint, from an understanding standpoint, from a. The. All you hear about railroads over the past five years. So in modern time is the strikes, Railroads nearly shutting down because the railroads. There was all kinds of stuff that came out with that. It was not a good look for anybody or just terrible derailments. There was the one in Ohio, Ohio. There was the one in Montana that took out that bridge.

[Zach]

Massive ones.

[Aaron]

That was. That was a monster. I mean, there's some. Been some big ones. That's all. But that's all you see. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. It's supporting our entire society. No one could live without it. But, you know, either one railroad's not really a thing anymore. Kind of a niche thing is what I think the general public believes. Or railroads bad.

[Zach]

A lot of good people being sacrificed in that. It's such a bummer that do the hard work. It really, in the leadership does the hard work.

[Aaron]

Yes, everybody does. And it's like a. I know it's not simple, but it is kind of a simple fix. Like, let's just move on. Well, let's just show people what the heck goes on. Let's peel the curtain back. Nothing we do is proprietary. Like, this is not top secret stuff. And you don't. I know you say you have competition. You don't really have competition because. Yeah, your tracks. Your track.

[Zach]

And like, it's kind of in this area. Nobody else.

[Aaron]

I can't start Aaron's railroad tomorrow.

[Zach]

As much As I would.

[Aaron]

Yeah, I would love to have a railroad. Boy, would I like the. The whole BNSF acquisition for Warren Buffett. That is like, one of the coolest power plays I've ever seen.

[Zach]

Flex.

[Aaron]

The guy railroad. It's like, damn, that's cool. Or there's a guy, Dennis Washington, he sold it. He had Montana Rail Link. He had a railroad. He has a heavy equipment dealership. He's got a copper mine. I'm like, this is my kind of guy.

[Zach]

I've got John Boat, you know, I mean, something to look at.

[Aaron]

Yeah. It's like, this is nice, man. I like this. Like, yeah, all the fancy stuff. That's great. But give me a copper mine. Give me a railroad.

[Zach]

You know, the men that built America, right? We look back in history, the oil and the railroad and steel and things like that. It's still going on today.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

In a different way, a different shape, different form, different fashion. I mean, the buffets and rail link, I mean, it's the same thing.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah. Rail Link sold to bnsf.

[Zach]

Yeah, Yeah, I think that's right.

[Aaron]

Yeah. A few years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, you go back to, like, the robber barons, like Cornelius Vanderbilt and, I mean, some of the biggest names in. What was it? Melon wasn't. I feel like Melon was also involved in railroads. I mean, everybody had their hands in railroads. Yeah. Carnegie for. Obviously, he needed railroads. Rockefeller needed railroads for what he was doing. They all. Have you read some of the Rockefeller stuff? Oh, it's pretty wild what they did with the railroads. Some of the sabotage back in the day. Yo.

[Zach]

Pretty. Pretty tough, right?

[Aaron]

Pretty tough. Yeah, yeah. Or like how he tried to outsmart Carnegie, like, well, all right. You're the biggest steel magnate in the world. What's the biggest ingredient? Steel. Iron ore. Where are you getting your iron ore? Minnesota. I'm just gonna buy the iron ore. Then big power place. It's like, whoa. And then Carnegie gets window. Like, hey, hey, hey, hey. No, no, no, no, no. We're not doing that. We're not doing that.

[Zach]

Still see it today in different shape. Forms of.

[Aaron]

Still see it today. It's just. Yeah, it's. It's. I feel like behind a curtain.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Or it's a little bit more obscure. Or they're just like, look over there. Look over there. And while we hear sports, you guys, just sports. We'll keep doing that.

[Zach]

It drives me crazy.

[Aaron]

We're going to be over here running the world. But don't. Don't think about it. We're all Good. Everybody's happy.

[Zach]

You just want to tell everybody, wake up. Yeah, look around.

[Aaron]

No, no, no. Eat your shitty food. Deal with your inflation. Like plastic water bottles. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a weird time, but it's. It's like I said, I'm a huge fan of what you guys do because it's. It's just much needed showing that side of the world like, you guys are helping keep the world moving. The railroads, they are keeping the world like they. They are. What's. Union Pacific's on every locomotive. They have Building America.

[Zach]

Building America. Catchy.

[Aaron]

So damn cool. I like. And they have it trademarked. I'm like, why? I get it. I understand. But, like, why'd you have to take that? Because that's cool. I want. I want that on everything. Like, that should be on every railroad. That should be on every port, steel mill, factory, the company doing telecom, power lines.

[Zach]

Building America.

[Aaron]

Water power plants. Yeah, like, you're building America. And to me, there's nothing cooler like, that's in the railroad workforce thing. It's like, all right, this is, I think, something we can sort out. Because if you go pull 6 year olds and you're like, all right, what are you into, Jimmy? What's what number one. What's number one? They're either gonna say, machines, bulldozers, no doubt. Trucks, cars, Dinosaurs. That's the big one. Dinosaurs really, really have that part of that market cornered. But then trains, they're right there in there, right in the mix.

[Zach]

Channels with millions of followers for kids.

[Aaron]

But trains are, like, very much in the mix. And then what happens? How do we lose that? What, get reprogrammed. You get reprogrammed. But it's like, I think we can work our way in there and, and for. For everybody's sake. Like, for their sake. Because I think it. It is a. It's a great career. You make a ton of money. You get paid. When they told me how much they're making.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

When I was out there, I was like, okay, all right. Yeah, this is not so bad. And you build America.

[Zach]

Exciting times we live in right now.

[Aaron]

Oh, it's so cool.

[Zach]

People can fuss. I don't talk politics. But it's exciting times. There's a lot of unknown.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

But you feel the machine kind of cranking up.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

We're fixing to go do some stuff.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Yeah, that's. That's what's exciting. It's exciting, like, especially. I don't know, regardless of where you are, but, like, even just post Covid, like, the whole world shutting down for a while. Weird it was, but it sucked. It's like, everything coming back. Like, all right, we're. We're going again. There's some momentum. Like, there's some. There's some energy. Like, and right. Wrong or indifferent, there's energy. I like that. I like that companies are getting aggressive. I like that people are getting aggressive. I like, Like, I.

[Zach]

That competition.

[Aaron]

I like that. Like, yes, it's. It's. That's what I get frustrated with some big companies. It's like, God, this is. Why is this. Why is it so boring? Why do you make this so lame? Why is this.

[Zach]

Because it's the way we've done it for 100 years. But I hate that.

[Aaron]

Can we just have a good time? Like, why is it. We don't have to be miserable? Like, nowhere does this job require being miserable. So why do we do that? Like, why don't we have a good time while we're doing this?

[Zach]

You know, I think. I think some of the American spirit. Let me get out of the way and let me show you mentality. During COVID I was afraid. Like, I was afraid it was gone.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

People are just done. They're laying down and you realize, like, Americans are resilient. Think about everything we've been through. We've been through world war, wars and depressions, and just Covid was a huge thing. And, man, America bounces back.

[Aaron]

Yeah. That's why I'm optimistic. So I love, like, traveling's been great. You get to see so much, and it's made me understand the world a lot better. And while there's a lot of other beautiful, extraordinary countries and cultures out there, what I really. And as. As frustrated as I am with a lot of America's current state, we have this you mentality that you just don't see anywhere else. And that's the best way I can explain it. Like, we just have this fuck you mentality. Like, oh, tell me I'm not going to do it. Tell me I'm not going to do it. Yeah, I'm. I'm going to either do it or I'm going to die trying. And. And, like, this is the hill I'm dying on. And I love that. I think that's like, the heart of business and the heart of this world. In this. In this industry especially, it's built upon and that, like the American dream. I'm a believer. It's. It's not a thing in most industries anymore. I'm not starting Aaron's phones. I'M not starting Aaron's bank. I'm not starting. Most everything's so consolidated now. And yeah, you can come up and outmaneuver here or there, but not really. The whole system's been somewhat gamed against that now with over regulation. But that's another can of worms. But you can. Some guy in Alabama who grew up in a less than savory world, man, can grab a lawnmower trailer and some tired tools and go to work and create something you gotta have that want to and help build America.

[Zach]

It's like that's been my favorite slogan. Tell me I can't.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

As even from a kid I've shared with you like growing up was tough. Like we were poor, real poor. I knew what we were eating every day. It was chicken, cheese and rice.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And much less air conditioner. A lot of times there wasn't power. I remember my mother's car getting repossessed. Right. But I think that you talk about the necessaries in life again, that was necessary. I had to live through that because I don't know what or how I would be today had I not walked through the fire and been forged. And today, don't tell me I can't. I'm hard headed. I'm quiet. I'm gonna read the room for a long time. But there's a lot going on in my head thinking about it. You're not, you're not gonna out think me, right? And I don't want you to outwork me. Of course I'm getting older. Right. I'm not as fast.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Zach]

Right. But it's just a hard headedness, man. I'm surrounded with people like that.

[Aaron]

Yeah. I think it's more good than bad. But it's almost like I've had to catch myself. Someone will be telling me no on something and I just get fixated on it. It pisses me.

[Zach]

What do you mean off?

[Aaron]

I'm like, I mean it's almost like they, they called my mom ugly or something like that. It's like, why am I so wound up? Yeah, this doesn't even matter. And yet I have people in my head. I'm like, I am gonna get you one day. I don't know how, I don't know when, but I'm gonna run you the fuck over. This is, this is not.

[Zach]

We've all got that list, right? Wrong or indifferent.

[Aaron]

Or someone will be like, no, you can't do that. And it's like, oh, I can't. And it's something so stupid so arbitrary. But there's just something in my mind that's like, all right, let's go. Let's. Let's fucking go. And. But that's. That's so good. It's so potent, especially. I can only come at it from the, like, the young man perspective, but especially like in your. In your teens and your 20s, everybody's talking about being calculated, this and that. I think it's all nonsense. Like, why'd you want to be a contractor? Because I wanted my name on an excavator. That's it?

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

That's the logic. And. And that logic, similarly applied elsewhere, has created. Has changed the world in all different ways. And so I guess. Well, that's not rational. No, that's the point. You don't change the world by being rational. Doesn't happen that way. You don't create anything substantial by being rational. You do have to be. You do have to be nuts. You do have to be irrational. And especially when you're young, when you're naive, you can be really irrational. Yeah.

[Zach]

Been there, done that. Looking back, there were probably a lot of times it should have been over with. Right. That irrational side of things.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

I'll gamble in a minute. You know, as far as maybe less now, but. But, you know, as younger, like, hey, let's try it and see what happens. I think a lot of it was luck and being at the right place at the right time.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Zach]

Mixed with that attitude of, you can't tell me. No.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

I'm so fortunate because I'm surrounded by that same mentality of, you're telling me I can't do this. Sit back and watch.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Let's go.

[Zach]

Every one of them around me, and it's. It's stellar conquering.

[Aaron]

But that's, that's. I mean, that you guys are in that business, though, of like, this can't be done.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Oh, okay. All right.

[Zach]

Yeah. And all railroads are the same. The Class 1 employees are the same way.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Zach]

Just like John Wayne, cowboy. What do you mean? Watch. And there's some talent out there. There's some guys that. That are keeping these railroads held together. Just a few of them that are extremely brilliant, that know how to railroad, that can do it in their sleep. And those guys are undervalued and underappreciated.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Zach]

But they're making it happen.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

They know it. They definitely know that, hey, this is the guy I can call on when the world's on fire. And he's going to handle it, you know?

[Aaron]

Yeah. And Just. Yeah. How many lives they impact on a daily basis.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Is extraordinary.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Like, if you're really holding one of the class ones together.

[Zach]

Sure.

[Aaron]

I mean, you've got pretty good chunk of America, no doubt, on your back.

[Zach]

No doubt.

[Aaron]

In a way, again, I didn't understand any of this until I went to work for the railroad and saw how many containers went by us on a daily basis. And it's just like, this is crazy.

[Zach]

Commodities, chemicals, it's wild.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Lumber, oil, grain, like the glue of our entire society. Everything heavy. And everything heavy is wildly valuable. Whoa.

[Zach]

Getting it off the roads, off of trucks.

[Aaron]

Cement. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a. There's a whole. I know. Trucking. Trucking and rail. They're each other's bigger customers, but they also don't like each other.

[Zach]

That's weird.

[Aaron]

Which is. It's a weird dynamic. But they're like. The railroad does have a good point, saying, listen, you want more by rail, less by truck. If we're moving more, it's safer.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

This is the safer way to do it. And mathematically, I mean, they have. They have numbers and statistics on their side to prove it's like, it's way safer.

[Zach]

Well, some of the trucking companies have figured it out. We'll just put our trucks on trains. The Amazons and ups, JB Hunt, all of them. It's smart, smart thinking. Combine them together.

[Aaron]

Yep.

[Zach]

And I think you know, too. I sit back and think, in the contracting world, like, there's always this strong competition. Right. Railroad contractors, like, I can't even describe to you. It's just preparatory. Let me protect. And I can't believe y' all are doing that. You know what? If we'd all kind of just pull together, we'd get a lot more done. Everybody gets a little bit of pie. Because what you figure out is if you get all the pie, all of a sudden, your pie goes bad.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Zach]

Right.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Well, that's where they've been for a while, and their pie is going to go bad. And this is not railroad. This is just contractors in the form of people.

[Zach]

Cool.

[Aaron]

Yeah. You've been around for 78 years or whatever it is. Cool. Yeah. You've got this monster balance sheet. Cool. Yeah. You've got all these relationships, so on and so forth, but what you don't have is a culture and company with a vision that's worth working for.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And I. People like me just don't want that.

[Zach]

They forget the one common denominator that keeps America going. People. And I see what you do, Aaron, like just the amount of, amount of time you take in. Probably not directly, but influencing people. Like, people are hungry to see what you do. Yeah, the people aspect, you're investing in people, whether by purpose and design or not. And America as a whole and railroads as a whole contract as a whole. We, we're forgetting that common denominators, people.

[Aaron]

Yeah, I, I, well, and again, it's not their fault. It's nothing personal. It's never, they just came up in a different, yeah, they came up in a different era where everything was a nail and all they had was a hammer. Yeah, that's it. That was the game, but that's not the game anymore. And, and I've seen old dogs learn new tricks. Those are the ones, those are the companies that are going to do the best. I think the old dogs that do or that are like, oh, there's a better way to do this, actually. And they are whooping some ass right now. I know some of them, they're having a grand old time because they're one of the only ones that's figured it out. So they're just, let's go, let's run up the score.

[Zach]

I'm gifted to have those partners that see, you know, technology is probably not a bad thing. We're about to get a young guy to run it. Right. But technology is good. And hey, this didn't work. Let's list, you know, in the grassing business, let's, let's redesign this, this cedar and make it do it faster and bigger and better. Right. So there's change where a lot of people are stuck in their ways.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting. But to go back to the people point, like, I think, and we think as a business, we can really change the world. I think we can really, we can be part of where America goes from here, which is really exciting. But as tempting as it is to talk about numbers and software and social media, etc, it's one handshake at a time. Yep, that's it. Yeah, that's it. There's no way to scale it. I mean, yeah, there is a way to scale it. Yeah, it's like using LinkedIn, for example. It's I meet people like you. It's, it facilitates things a lot faster. But it's like, but I want to come out, see what you do. I want to shake your hand. I want to get to know you. I want to get to know what you're about, what your guys are about, what you actually do, what it takes. And Then that you do that enough time. Like, why people are like, why do you travel so much? Like, well, I can't. I can't do this from home.

[Zach]

It's contagious. Yeah.

[Aaron]

And I've got it. I have to shake hands. If I'm not shaking hands, I'm not making a difference.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

It just doesn't. It doesn't work. It's one conversation, one handshake at a time. And I haven't fully appreciated that, but I'm trying to do a better job at it.

[Zach]

Those atta boys, you know, that's kind of stepping to the side a little bit. But, you know, the people around us that work, work with us. Sometimes people just need a, hey, you did a good job.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

They don't need that bonus check. I mean, of course, that's nice, but just. And maybe it's because nobody's taking the time to say, hey, Aaron, you've done a good job, man. You've really knocked it out of the park.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

And those deposits into that. That person's. You know that their bank. Right. Man, it carries water.

[Aaron]

Well, even. There's just a lot of people. I mean, I'm railroad. I know a lot of people, they're busting their asses, but they don't. They don't really know why, because they're not reminded of it. Like, listen, this is one of the most important roles in America.

[Zach]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And you need that reminder. And that's what I try to do with people, especially when they reach out. You know, hey, thanks for. Thanks for doing this. Podcast videos, social, doing what you're doing this and that. I'm like, no, thank you for doing what you do, because you actually do it. I just talk about it, I just show it. I just fuck off. I'm playing a part, and I'm playing my part that I've been given. I didn't choose it. I'm just running the play. But you're. Whoever you are, if you're out in the field, you're making it happen. Or if you're in an office supporting those in the field, you're making it happen. Like, and it's. It's interesting even to, like, remind people of that. Like, you. What you do is really important. I know day to day, it's a slog, it's cold, it's hot, it's wet, miserable night, whatever it is. But that, like, you're the glue that keeps this whole thing going. And you might not get a thank you for it. However, it doesn't change the fact that you're the glue making this whole thing go round.

[Zach]

And there's lots of pieces in that, too.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Zach]

Hold it together.