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- [00:01]
A
The civil construction industry, they've got a real big pickle right now because the whole previous generation like it, the whole safety thing happened pretty quick. And what I mean by that is the construction industry now has this zero tolerance for accidents, incidents, whoopsies, near misses even. There's no tolerance for anything. But ironically, that's how the whole previous generation learned. Like the whole previous generation, that wasn't like, not even that long ago. They learned through whoopsies.
- [00:38]
B
Yeah.
- [00:38]
A
Like, did they not, I mean, 100%.
- [00:40]
B
Trial and error, everybody. They were farm kids. I mean, that's, that's what. Right. I mean, Yeah. I was 8 years old when I, when I got to drive a skid loader. Now I look at an 8 year old kid and I would never trust you in my skid loader.
- [00:51]
A
Yeah, but, but you know, and how many whoopsies did you do?
- [00:54]
B
There was a few situations. I could tell you one time where I had a hay bale up real high and you realize the tipping point on a skid loader. Yep.
- [01:01]
A
You know, I've put it, I've put a skid steer on its roof. Yeah. And put it on the Internet. But, but when I did, everybody, everybody was like, I've been there. A lot of company owners even like, yep, been there. That's how I learned. But now that's not an option at ins. Like the industry's changing, but then there's still. It is, but it isn't like there's still these incumbents that control a majority of the market. They're the old school guys, whatever it is. But I love it when a McCoy comes into play because then it forces everybody else to, oh shit, we've got a, we've got a boogie too.
- [01:49]
B
Yeah.
- [01:49]
A
And even like somebody like you, like newer company, you're just, you're doing things. You're not constrained by how your, how your dad did it or whatever it is, or you don't have to feed this big like backlog, this big monster that is a thousand plus people that needs to just chew through X amount of dollars every month. Like you're not as constrained. So you can just, you can question things like, do we need to do it this way? No. Okay, well let's do it a different way. Yeah. And I think that fresh air, like, I just think that alone is gonna like, I think construction is great as a career, but I think construction is also its own worst enemy in that like this next generation, even people like me, you like, you don't want to work for some big Stuffy company.
- [02:41]
B
Yeah.
- [02:41]
A
Like you want to do things differently.
- [02:43]
B
You want to be a big fish in a little pond.
- [02:45]
A
Yeah.
- [02:45]
B
You want to have a part, you want to have a play, you know, you want to be part of the growth, you want to be part of the opportunity. Yeah. And, and I truly think that's even as for us as a company, that's why we've been able to track some talent. And just like you just were saying earlier, you know, thinking outside the box, you know, you know, when you're a fresh company and you're coming up through the ranks, you have the ability to try new technology, try new pieces of equipment, try new things. Whereas big corporation, you know, construction companies, they have a, they have a set way and don't run. They're very smart. Like they, they are the best at the best. They, there's a reason that they're big. They've done it right. They have stuff dialed in. But for on a new style company, like a prime example, like the cat HCS or the oil quicks that we run on our demolition side, we're one of the few guys I know, we're the only ones in town locally here that are running it. It's something that I've talked to a lot of people in regards to that and they're like, well, we can't afford to convert our whole fleet. It would cost millions of dollars to convert our fleet to that. But, but if you're consistently buying equipment and you keep adding, you know, you take the Delta between a regular quick coupler versus an oil quick or HCS quick coupler, the Delta is very minimal.
- [03:54]
A
Sure.
- [03:55]
B
So it's just another opportunity where it costs you a little bit more on the front end, but now it might give you a bigger opportunity on the back end or, you know, the longevity of that piece of equipment.
- [04:04]
A
Yeah. Well, and even as it just gives you opportunity as an individual at the company, I'm sure you have plenty of people that have moved up the ranks quickly just, just because that's the nature of a small company growing company. As you grow, you just need to, hey, can you do this too? And at the older school companies, it's like you need to do your time. You need to do 12 years in the ditch before you can even think about forming this and that. And it's like, maybe I do, but I don't want to. It's like, sue me. I don't want to. I want to grow. I want to move. I want to, I want to shake shit up. Like I'm Young, I'm hungry. Now's the time to work. I want to get after it. And there, there is something to be said for, for patience. Like I understand doing your time, but then there's this over emphasis, I think, on doing your time as well. Like 10 years is not for you. Is different now, especially with how information moves, how things move. Like there's value in experience, but you can compress experience as well.
- [05:04]
B
Yeah.
- [05:06]
A
And so I just again, companies like, like you guys, I just see it's more attractive to me a lot of times, like the bigger jobs, I tell people, like, I'm a huge advocate of people that are young. Go work for a big company for a little bit.
- [05:21]
B
Understand it.
- [05:21]
A
Yeah. And go work on like a big sexy job away from home, like something crazy. Go find the biggest, most badass job you can find, figure out who's doing the work and go beg to get in however the hell you want and however the hell you can. That'll be a great experience. But then you know, that's probably not going to be sustainable way of living.
- [05:42]
B
Right.
- [05:42]
A
And then you can bring that back to a local contractor and be way more effective.
- [05:47]
B
Yeah. Because when you're on the road, all you do is work. And so you, you instill those work ethic and that those values of driving the project home and the level of accuracy and just really put all your. Pouring your heart and soul into that when you're on the road. I was on the road for a couple of years and I mean, actually it was with Blattner Energy.
- [06:06]
A
Oh, no kidding.
- [06:07]
B
Yeah, doing wind farms. So I did one in Walla Walla, Washington and one in Athena, Oregon.
- [06:12]
A
Oh, wow.
- [06:13]
B
It was some of the funnest projects I've ever. And it started out as being on the earthwork side one year and then it was. I was on structures, actually I was on foundations and then I was on structures, you know, the stacking and climbing. So that was always, you know, climbing a turbine a day was always my goal every day. But I mean, we were working, you know, in the summer. Blattner just took amazing care of the employees. I mean, just. Just phenomenal family. Phenomenal. Phenomenal group. But, you know, it was always just fun to be out there with a group of people. And it was a big project and it was. But you're working. I mean, there were weeks I worked 110 hours. I mean, just. That was your life. But you loved it. You didn't even think that it was a big deal.
- [06:55]
A
Well, how old were you at the.
- [06:56]
B
Time I would have been, must have been 21 because I was old enough to go out with everybody.
- [07:00]
A
But that's what you should be doing in your 20s. Every time somebody talks to me or I hear a 20 year old, 20 something year old talk about work, life, balance, I'm like, you shut the fuck up. Like, what are we doing? Like, no, yeah, you go work, man. And go work like and doing, doing those weeks. You are stacking up the money.
- [07:22]
B
Yes, as well.
- [07:22]
A
But, but Blattner, they're a great example. Boy, do they run a tight ship.
- [07:27]
B
I mean, I look at it in that summer. So it was internships when I was out there doing it and I thought I was. That was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I was making 17 bucks an hour. Yeah, I mean, you were getting overtime after 40 and here you are working. Yeah. Per diem, Right. You live in a hotel. The safety guy drove me. Safety guy drove me to the jobs every day. So I never had any fuel, didn't have anything. You know, you had your hotels paid for. I mean, you'd go out for lunches, they were always buying you the beer and pizza every night, you know. You know, it was just, it was the best experience. And I think it really boiled down to. And that's where I wish these younger guys would just go back and like, like take a step back and like, you gotta, like you said, you gotta, you gotta lace your boots up, you gotta put your pants on. You gotta put the effort into busting your butt and working hard and like listening and. But everybody wants something tomorrow and not like, like, I agree. I don't think you need to give it. This isn't something to give 10 years. But I do think that you need to find a. I look at applications, you know, every few days or whatever it is. You know, we're always, we're always hiring, we're always growing. But honestly, looking at applicants, it stresses me out to no end because these people, I mean, I had a gentleman yesterday and I had to ask him and you know, and he worked, he worked at nine companies in the last seven years. Nine companies in the last seven years. And I'm like, why, you know, you want to come work for me? Why me? Like, what, what am I going to do? What can I do different for you to keep you here? Because it, it's, it's not a benefit to bring people in and have people go, sure. So what can I do to change your life to make you stay here longer, to make you be a better person, you know? What things can I give you or what things can I do for you that you can change your outlook on and make this a place to stay so you're not hopping around, you know.
- [09:14]
A
But it's a, it's, it's definitely a dichotomy. I intentionally hopped around while I was in college, but no one gave a shit.
- [09:23]
B
Yeah.
- [09:23]
A
Like you're a college kid, so no one even thought twice.
- [09:27]
B
And you're trying to find your way.
- [09:28]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I honestly, I encourage, especially when they're young, I do encourage people to hop around.
- [09:36]
B
I agree.
- [09:36]
A
Because in your 20s, like me as an employer, and I say that as an employer, I want the people that are here. I want it to be in their best interest to be here. Yes, but in your 20s, it's hard to know when you're young, in your career, or maybe, you know, even 30, starting a different career, whatever it is, it's hard to know what's in your best interest. Like, there's. You, you have to.
- [10:00]
B
You don't know what you don't know. And so until you put yourself out there, and then when you do put yourself out there, you can see the good and the bad. And then you may think, because, you know, I was. I use this analogy, and I'm like, grass is only, you know, once one guy told me, he said, you know, Tyler, grass is only green, greener on side of the fence because it was fertilized with shit. So you don't know until you don't know. And so sometimes it looks the, you know, the aspect that it looks good isn't always that it is good. So I, you know, I encourage people to see that and, you know, but not, you know, they're going to build their. They're going to build themselves a better life. Build them to be better people if they put themselves in those experiences.
- [10:41]
A
Yeah, Yeah. I just, it very much is a dichotomy because I also think employers, and I get it again, I'm an employer. Employers are selfish. They don't want people to leave. But it's like. But, but sometimes it's in people's best interest to leave too. Like sometimes. Sometimes. And sometimes, like, especially, you're growing a company. I've grown a company. We're a growing company. People serve you. It's, it's, it's. I used to believe that I could just retain everybody. That is a bullshit concept.
- [11:12]
B
Yeah.
- [11:12]
A
Bullshit concept. As you're growing because, you know, when you're here with 20 people and then here with 60 people and you're doing something totally different. There's just some people that'll come along with you and some people that won't on their, on their. Based on, on their decision making, and then some people that can't. And that's okay. Like, like, as you guys, you know, you said you're doing data center. That's a lot more sophisticated than a site package for Starbucks.
- [11:41]
B
100%.
- [11:42]
A
You just need a different skill set and you need sophistication. And some of your folks may be able to step up to that level, but then some won't and some can't, and some don't want to. Some just listen, I just want to build Starbucks because I don't have to deal with the GC up my ass when I show up to work. I can just move dirt. And that's fine.
- [12:06]
B
That's fine.
- [12:08]
A
And then some people want those, those, those more complicated jobs. Like, man, this is tough. The schedule is tough, the site's tough. These, these standards are tough. But we can rise to the occasion. We can knock this out. It's just different.
- [12:22]
B
And that's where I think it's really important. You know, we are trying to. Because we're coming off of that, right? We're coming off of being the little guy trying to become the, you know, I don't, I won't say we're a big guy, but we've competed on some of the biggest jobs here locally in town. And, and, you know, and I think we've. We've nailed down some, some really good jobs. And, and for us, like, trying to educate the guys that come here and work that, like, we're no different than anybody else. It doesn't matter if you're working for an Ames or a keywit. Like, our standards are the same. Our culture, our safety culture is the same. And so we have that same. So just because that you're not on a keyword job doesn't mean that you're not allowed to wear your seatbelt or you're not allowed to, you know, that you're allowed to have your cell phone. Like, this isn't. That culture applies. Like, this is what the industry is going to. And this is. There's a lot of opportunity here. But just, you know, let's work with us, you know, be part of that and, like, be part of that growth. And so. And that's really where I think, day in and day out, I don't think we always. You're never going to get 100% of people to buy into your mentality. But I think for us, if in my eyes, if I can have 75% of the guys, 75 to 85% of the team buy into that, that fit 10 to 15%, they're going to come and go and we're going to fill those voids. But the people that are following that culture and leading by example, and we've got a big group of guys that have absorbed that, and I think that's what's taken us. Like, those are the guys that have created our growth. You know, we do what we can in the office to help, you know, generate those opportunities and network and, and bid those jobs and be competitive. But ultimately it's the guys in the field that are really executing and, and really, you know, serving our, serving our purpose, you know.
- [14:04]
A
Yeah, while you were here, I had to bring this up. You're gonna have to change your company name at some point. It's just, it's just a matter of time.
- [14:14]
B
It is just a matter of time.
- [14:18]
A
We don't do branding anymore. But hey, I'm like, you're gonna have to do it at some point. I know. Yeah. Because it seems like site work is, it's only more and more.
- [14:27]
B
It is only more and more. You know, I joke and I say, you know, and I've even told my competitors this. I said, we're gonna be the only, the only company with demo in our name that doesn't do demo.
- [14:37]
A
Yeah, well, I mean, and if you do it, good for you.
- [14:40]
B
But here's the thing, what our, our focus is truly we want to be. You know, one thing I will say, you know, growing up in Minnesota, working for contractors in Minnesota, the group up there, the groups up there, you know, there's lots of A class players up there.
- [14:55]
A
Minnesota, that's one of the toughest markets, toughest markets.
- [14:58]
B
All great players.
- [14:59]
A
You got like McCross and Blattner, Ames Veit.
- [15:02]
B
Yeah, you got, you got frat alone Rachel. I mean, you got Rachel, you got, you got lots of just really good players up there that I think are just class A contractors. Just do good work, have a great culture, a lot of respect for those boys up there. But the one thing that I think the takeaway from up there to down here is, you know, from me coming down here was bringing up being a one stop shop. You know, one thing that you look at, you look at the Vites or the Rachel or, you know, the guys, that would be basically what I would say in our same class that I would, that I look up to or that I Admire and respect is that they come in, they do demo, they do earth, they do earth utilities, Earth retention. Right. They are a one stop shop in that. And I think that's really what we've brought to the market here in Nashville that Nashville didn't have. And I think that that's something that we've created and we're doing a really good job at it and that's what we're striving to be the best and at being that one stop shop to give our clients what they want. And obviously every job there's going to be jobs where people want you just for the demo or people want you just for the earthwork. But I am proving time and time again that my team is really good at executing a full, full gamut scope that we can come in, do your demo, do your earthwork, do your utilities under one umbrella, be that, be that guy to lead that charge and have no delay, you know, no, no, you know, delays in between, you know, this work scopes and whatnot.
- [16:33]
A
So own the schedule.
- [16:34]
B
Yeah, you own the schedule. You can. And, and it's really improved and the guys that have, have bought into it are so happy. And so I think that that's one thing that the boys do good up north and that's something that I think you're going to see people following suit in the, you know, other parts of the US in the near future.
- [16:52]
A
Yeah. And I, I love the model. I'm very pro that model. I still think you're going to have to change your name. I still think it's going to have to happen to support that model. Like I say, I say that in support of that model. But like a, like a veit is one of my favorite examples there. It is nuts just how diverse that company is, 100%. It's almost silly. It's like how, what do you, what do you mean? You demolish power plants and have a very successful landfill and do commercial diving and do, you know, million yard site packages. Like I remember.
- [17:35]
B
You know what's funny is I remember doing a job in Turtle Lake, North Dakota. I think the guy's name was Aaron as well. And he owned Adventure Divers before Vite Bottom. And we were doing, I don't remember exactly what we're doing, if he was doing some underwater welding, if he was doing some underwater torching for us on a job. But at the time I was actually working for S.J. lewis. But yeah, Turtle Lake, North Dakota. And so, but yeah, I mean, and that's the thing. It's all about alliances and allegiance. Right. And creating those partnerships. And that's exactly what veit's done. You know, they've done a great job in my opinion of. And that's a model that I think is something to be super proud of. You know, that's, that's the culture. You know, that's a, you know, I think that's something that's really cool.
- [18:24]
A
Yeah, there's, there's some European companies that are similar that do that. Like, like I've talked to you about Eberhard, one of my favorite. I mean they'll, they'll do these crazy complex basements. Like make that basement look like kids camp.
- [18:37]
B
Yeah.
- [18:37]
A
Just crazy shit. And then, and it's very restrictive since it's Switzerland. Like, I mean they've got rules on rules. Like Nashville is the wild west compared to interesting. And then they'll do very complex demolition. And then they'll do, I mean there's, there's nothing they, they'll do an airport, you know, there's nothing they won't do. If you're looking for another industry event that is a snooze fest, this is definitely not for you. But if you're a leader looking to elevate yourself, your team, looking for like minded individuals that are hungry, then look no further than the Ariat Dirt World Summit November 5th through the 7th in Dallas, Texas. In our third year, we'll have about 1500 hungry industry leaders from about 500 companies looking to learn, grow, teach. It's going to be fantastic. We also have a world class lineup. We've got Jesse Cole from the Savannah Bananas, James Clear, Atomic Habits, Kim Scott, Radical Candor, Mark Miller, Chick Fil A leadership. Tim Grover who is Michael Jordan's trainer. You will not hear from a lineup like this anywhere else. So check out details now dirtworld.com you can use code AARON10 for 10% off any registrations and we'll see you November 5th through the 7th in Dallas, Texas.
- [20:00]
B
And that's why I think like you and I talked. You know, I was hoping to go out to, to Bama this year. Obviously little guy decided that that was his time to come, come to the world. But so the next Bama trip we're, we're definitely all hands on deck and going but you know, that's really why I think it's really important to understand, you know, just because what we do in Nashville doesn't mean make it right, it doesn't make it wrong, but it doesn't make it right. And so one of the big I'll.
- [20:26]
A
Say it's not right.
- [20:27]
B
Yeah, a lot of times. And that's really the goal. Right. And that's where I think that that's what gives me a little bit of an edge, is that I've had a. I won't say that I've not seen it all. I want to say I would love to see it all. Right? You, especially someone of your nature, you get to see all these construction companies, and everybody has a different way of how they just. How they start their morning off, right, Just how they conduct business, how they close out the end of their day, how they park their equipment, right? What does. How they. How their fuel trucks, fuel equipment. I mean, just every little. All these little things, every company does it a little different, and there's efficiencies and inefficiencies in it. And I think that that's where watching and seeing what other people do in other parts of, whether it's the US or in the world, whether it's overseas or not, I think that's where I want to continue to broaden our goal to hopefully bring that back home, to bring that energy, to bring that kind of atmosphere to Demo plus and to see, hey, what can we do different here locally in Nashville, to give our clients a better. A better product, a better, you know, how can we deliver the project faster? How can we give you better tools? Or what can we do? Or maybe it's even our people, you know, what can we do?
- [21:39]
A
Yeah. And like, it's. It's. And sometimes I'm overly critical of the south, but the South, I would say, is like on the sophistication scale towards the bottom. And I think it's. I think it's just a cultural thing as well. I mean, but I mean, some of the demolition projects I've seen around town, it's like, what the fuck are those guys doing? Like, I'm not a demo guy, but I know. I know something's wrong here. Or some of the site work stuff, it's like, yes, what is going. It's just a mess.
- [22:10]
B
And that's the thing. And so, you know, you. You sit back and you think about it, because I drive through town and I see these. These competitors of ours, and I'm just like, what do you have going on? You know, why are you doing it this way? And it's like, okay, now I know why you're the cheapest, you know?
- [22:25]
A
Yeah.
- [22:26]
B
And. And that' you almost gotta take a step back, and that's where you gotta sell yourself as. And that's really where, like our aspect of things, like, we want to be known for the guy that when we, when it comes to be a demo job, we're gonna be the guy to move in six to 10 excavators. Like, we're gonna be. We're gonna get this thing down quick and fast. And my guys know that. And sometimes it's maybe, maybe on a aspect of, you know, financial ability, maybe that's a foolish move into some people's eyes. Cause they're saying, okay, well, you come in like a brick shithouse and you get this down and you get it done in two to three weeks, versus if you put a smaller machine there, you could sit there for six months and you got consistent work. Or, or do you look at. We come in there and do that, but then we might have a leg in there for a week where my guys might not, you know, might be doing other things. But then we go in. But it's. But to the client, they look at that and they now know us. And I think that that's one thing that, I mean, I just had a conversation with, with a project executive on a job this week, and she's like, you know, I'm so impressed on how you guys have tackled this job. You're on every corner, you got, you got multiple crews going. You're tackling this thing from every angle. Like, it is truly, truly impressive. And she's like, I've been On, you know, 50100 acre sites and nobody seems to tackle a job like the way that you guys are.
- [23:44]
A
Yeah, it's. And you know, there are good companies in Nashville, like, like a Jones, for example.
- [23:49]
B
Yeah.
- [23:49]
A
You put them on a site work job. It's like they're.
- [23:52]
B
They're stout. They're stout. They're gonna get.
- [23:54]
A
After you can move like Rosso. You know, we've worked with them a lot. Srm. They're obviously a national monster. Now civil, you know, actually civil's been great for us as well, but it's just, it's. It's like, it's not a criticism of even any of the companies here. It's just like this market's just not sophisticated and even demolition, I mean, a lot of demo, it'll be like a. Oh, fuck. It'll be like a clapped out John Deere 350, just pile of shit. Like not a, not a square inch of paint on that counterweight, you know, with a bucket and a thumb. And it'll be like parked on a pile of shit after demolishing the building. And they're, like, trying to sort it, but it's just like, what are these guys doing? This is crazy. I don't even. I don't even really shoot anything in Nashville. I can't even tell you the last time I actually, like, shot something in Nashville.
- [24:43]
B
We might need to make that happen soon.
- [24:45]
A
Oh, I know. And.
- [24:47]
B
But then I might have a couple really good ones for you actually coming up.
- [24:49]
A
Good. I. But I saw you guys tear down the technical school down the street from my house. Drive by it every day.
- [24:58]
B
Yeah.
- [24:59]
A
Way to work. And you did exactly what you like. You're not bullshitting right now.
- [25:03]
B
Yeah, we had six machines in there and we took that building down in 13 days.
- [25:07]
A
Yeah, I texted. I texted you. I was like, your boys kick the shit out of this one. I mean, they.
- [25:12]
B
I mean, that was. And it was in spic and span when they left. Was. It was. They did a. They did a. I mean, maybe they did it because it was next to our houses, but I mean, because I live down the street as well, so, you know, you get to check up on the boys. Yeah, you get to check up on them. But no, the boys did a. Did a great job. And that was a difficult job. You know, I mean, it was a, you know, two, three story buildings, and there was just a lot of trash just the way that. That it was. So it was really mixed in and just really sorting the concrete from the trash, you know, took a lot of effort. And they did a great job. And they did it fast, they did it efficient. And it was one of those things that we had a lot of work on the books. And so we're like, let's. We didn't need to. I mean, it didn't. We could have sat there for three, four months if we truly wanted to.
- [25:55]
A
Yeah.
- [25:56]
B
But. But we. But we got in there and we're like, let's get after this thing. Let's knock it out. And it made that client so happy. That client to this day is. Is tickled pink. And was. Was like, before they even knew what was going on, the building was down and almost gone.
- [26:10]
A
Sure.
- [26:10]
B
So. And that to them is, you know, a thing that they want a powerhouse. You know, people want people that they can trust that, you know, are going to take buildings down, you know, safely. I mean, I mean, like you say, it's. There's not a lot of technical demo here in Nashville, but the stuff that, you know, when you. There are certain jobs that are. And they do play a big role in who you're going to use when you.
- [26:33]
A
Yeah. And I think the technical stuff is. I mean it's, it's. It's only growing, I would say.
- [26:43]
B
Yeah.
- [26:43]
A
Like even, you know, the stadium demo. Yeah, that's. Yeah. I mean I. I stay. Any stadium is pretty technical. I think as. As far as stadiums go, it's actually pretty straightforward. I've heard that one is since there's not a whole lot to it.
- [26:57]
B
A lot of room. You got real estate.
- [26:58]
A
Yeah, it's kind of like a house cards too. You just kind of fold it in. Unfortunately. I wanted something like real dramatic. I didn't even. And we were talking about site package for the new stadium. It's like I wanted something serious, you know.
- [27:10]
B
And honestly, I look back at, you know, DH Griffin.
- [27:14]
A
They're.
- [27:14]
B
They're an amazing demo contractor. Look. Look up highly of them, you know, and they've. They've obviously tried to come to town and they've A few times and they've realized that the margins just aren't there. I mean that's really truly.
- [27:24]
A
It's.
- [27:24]
B
You know, there's a lot of. Everybody and their brother wants to be a demo contractor, it feels like around here. And so that's kind of why we've even kind of lost our are fit and it's just tough to compete with that level, if that's what you're looking for. But you know, we've done DH Did a. Did the Lifeway implosion here in town, but other than that, the only other implosions that have been done in town or what Demo plus did in 21 for the Vanderbilt. So it was a double implosion and.
- [27:50]
A
Oh, you guys.
- [27:51]
B
So like that one. Yeah.
- [27:52]
A
Who did the explosives?
- [27:54]
B
Cdi.
- [27:55]
A
Cd.
- [27:55]
B
Okay. So great. If you ever get a chance to look up the clip.
- [28:00]
A
It's.
- [28:00]
B
It's amazing. It's a great.
- [28:01]
A
I wanted to see that.
- [28:02]
B
It's a great blast. Yeah, it was. It was. It was very impressive.
- [28:09]
A
Why. Why did they include implode that one? Did they have to?
- [28:12]
B
I don't know. I'll be honest. It was before. Truth be told, it was before my time at Demo plus, before my. My involvement.
- [28:19]
A
Okay.
- [28:20]
B
But it was in the, you know, the earlier years of Demo plus and.
- [28:23]
A
So did you not start Demo Boss?
- [28:25]
B
No. No.
- [28:26]
A
So when did. When did you get involved?
- [28:28]
B
I got involved. I bought Demo plus in 23.
- [28:31]
A
In 23. So that's not that long ago.
- [28:33]
B
No. So two and a half years. We've. We've changed the market tremendously.
- [28:38]
A
Interesting. Okay.
- [28:41]
B
Huh. That Makes so time flies when you're having fun.
- [28:44]
A
Yeah.
- [28:44]
B
So.
- [28:45]
A
Because I. Because we haven't talked that much. Ironically, like you live very close to me.
- [28:53]
B
Yeah.
- [28:54]
A
Yet we. I haven't spent a lot of time with you, but I first got involved with demo. Not involved, but I first came became aware of Demo plus. Like the what I told you that plant next door that they demolished. I think you still have it like this white. Just tired.
- [29:13]
B
Oh yeah, yeah. Man.
- [29:16]
A
That thing is like that girl started her really.
- [29:19]
B
Oh, I gave her some fresh love. I gave her some fresh love on the outside.
- [29:22]
A
She had no love when she was next door here. And so I think that was when I first saw Demo Plus. And then, you know, just driving around if there's a demo company, I'm like nearly running my truck off the road, looking at it as I'm driving by. And then I met you through McCoy, I think. Yeah, I know we had chatted a little bit, but through McCoy funny enough. And so you bought it. And how'd you buy it?
- [29:46]
B
So how that all kind of came to be not to get too far in the weeds. So I actually ended up helping demo plus. You know, demo plus used to do probably 80% demo, 20% earthwork. Now we do about 80% earthwork, 20% demo. So we're pretty much a flip.
- [30:03]
A
Tonya.
- [30:08]
B
And so the. The cool thing was. So basically it's. And this is where I encourage. I had this conversation with a couple people here recently and I encourage people because truth be told, you know, it's all about really working hard. And you. And people are like, well how you know, was it family, was it whatever, you know, that would bought this company? No, it really wasn't. It was working hard. And we ended up partnering with Demo Plus. I helped them bid some Earthwork jobs before my time did not come work for them. Ended up was approached again was actually, you know, a couple times was talking about potentially even buying Demo Plus.
- [30:45]
A
Were you living here?
- [30:46]
B
I was living here. I was working for Summit at the time and. And so I was involved. I was building the Four Seasons downtown. Actually. I remember the first time I met Demo Plus. You know, I was down. We were building the Four Seasons, which.
- [30:59]
A
A pretty good sized basement on that one.
- [31:00]
B
Which table? That portion of it. Are you all familiar with the. The transcontinental communication line that goes through.
- [31:07]
A
No.
- [31:08]
B
So the, the basically what does it go from like the White House to la? The transcontinental communication line goes right through second Avenue on Nashville, right downtown. I think it's Like a million dollars a minute if you hit it.
- [31:19]
A
Is that why that AT&T building is downtown?
- [31:21]
B
You got it. And that's where the bomber. Yes, that's where he parked his. Which ended up crazy enough was our IT guy at Summit. Holy shit. So, like, this man's worked on my computer a few times. But anyways, crazy. So we were down there at that time. We were actually. We were down building the Four Seasons and Demo plus was on the other side of the Shelby Bridge tearing down a brick building similar to. Now it's a parking lot across from Barstool. Yep.
- [31:49]
A
See my point? And as we were walking through here, Nashville, no respect rolled.
- [31:55]
B
And. And so at that time, you know, I met Demo Plus. And. And at the time, I was actually. I was talking with Summit. You know, we were looking. I was actually looking at buying a company out of Minnesota, and I was actually going to move them down here. Was looking for some opportunity. I see. I could see opportunity in Nashville. I saw ways. I just saw inefficiencies. I saw things that I don't maybe know that everybody else saw. I just saw opportunity, felt something alive in Nashville. Didn't really know what it was, but there was definitely something there. Had a conversation with them and asked if they'd be interested in selling. Right off the cusp, you know, I'm very transparent person. And said matter of fact, might be. So we had some lunch and whatnot. And that really started the relationship. And that was in 20. Probably would have been around 2120, something like that.
- [32:44]
A
And this was like.
- [32:45]
B
This was before COVID It was right.
- [32:46]
A
At Covid, but like on the side. So you're working full time at a construction company. Yep. That's since been sold.
- [32:53]
B
Yep.
- [32:55]
A
So you're working there, but then you're calling the owner of a company.
- [32:58]
B
Well, he was outside. He was. He was actually. He was out on the street and yeah, he was working next to us. Like, we had to kind of work side by side with each other and, you know, you're just picking someone's brain.
- [33:07]
A
Yeah, that's where you have a job.
- [33:08]
B
Yeah.
- [33:08]
A
At this point.
- [33:09]
B
Yeah, yeah, I'm working. Yeah, I'm working. I'm doing earthwork.
- [33:12]
A
I'm as like. Like a project.
- [33:14]
B
Yep. A project manager. And. And so the, you know, the opportunity kind of presented itself. You know, it just kind of evolved from there. So at time goes on. I ended up. Covid happened. I had some people reaching out to me. I was doing a little bit of like, consulting, you know, bidding some stuff at that time I wasn't with Summit anymore.
- [33:35]
A
Yeah.
- [33:36]
B
And when did they sell?
- [33:38]
A
Maybe 23.
- [33:39]
B
23. It was the same time I bought demo plus.
- [33:41]
A
Yeah.
- [33:42]
B
Would if, if those stars would align, that have been a. They would have been a great merger as well. But that's Jones's.
- [33:48]
A
Yeah. So that was a good buy.
- [33:50]
B
It was. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, so at that time, you know, was. Was kind of consulting. Some people talked me into going off on my own. And I'll never forget it. Actually, the very first job that I got was Matt Weathers Midstate Mobile Concrete. You know, that do the. The mobile concrete for all the flow fill in town. You see their TR over. He had a little job doing some concrete at Vanderbilt, doing a frat house. And he threw me a bone. I tell him that this thing I tell him all the time, you know, appreciate him, you know, throwing me that first bone. And it since evolved from there to get in a couple hotels, getting a couple industrial buildings, got a car wash.
- [34:30]
A
You got your start of the frat house?
- [34:32]
B
I got my start with the frat house. Can you just not drinking?
- [34:36]
A
That's pretty funny. You could make that into something, but can you. You don't have to get into like the details, but just like big picture mechanics. How does a project manager buy a company?
- [34:48]
B
So at that time, I ended up starting from scratch. Bare bones, me, boots on the ground, doing the work. I ended up.
- [34:55]
A
But do you have to. Do you like go through a bank or something like.
- [35:01]
B
So at that time it was. Not that it was. I mean, that's why seller finance. My allegiance. Well, we'll get into that. So my allegiance right now. That's why I do a lot of. I mean, I give Thompson Machinery probably 99% of my business. And I credit that because on that frat house, right? Very first job, it was probably $30,000 job. I don't remember what it was. I think it's about what it was. It was like a 30k job. And I didn't, you know, I never rented equipment before, you know, barely even had insurance. You had to get, you know, get insurance locked up, you know, and called Thompson and not a problem, gave me a single axle. Didn't even. I don't remember if they even asked me for a driver's license. I'm sure they probably do now, but no, they don'.
- [35:43]
A
Like when I got my skid steer, I'm like, I mean, when you go buy a truck, it's like you need to, I don't know, give them all Personal information ever. And it's a whole process. Whereas, like, you buy a piece of machinery or rent a piece of machinery and you're like, do I need to sign something? Like, is there paperwork or. Yeah, they're like, no, no, no.
- [36:03]
B
Yeah, we'll send you the bill. We'll send you the bill in 30 days. And it's net 30 from there. So, you know, I mean, you. So you think about that. You know, you do take the. You take the machinery. I say it's on the 1st, they send you the bill on the 30th, you got 30 days to pay that bill. That's 60 days from the time you took that machine. And so they allowed you. And so like I said, they gave me that opportunity and I'm very thankful for it. Right. And I remember Matt even. Matt even paid me after I did the job. And like a week or two weeks later, he even paid me because I know what it's like to get started. And he paid me. He paid. And so I got to pay everything, you know, put a little cash in my pocket, and then I rolled that to the next one and did another job and then picked up some more work and just kept rolling that and then added a couple guys and it was really just me and two to three guys. And next thing you know, we're building car washes and these little 30,000 square foot industrial buildings. Did a hotel downtown. We ended up doing. And that eventually evolved into me doing a joint venture with Demo plus and we built. So this was all pre Demo plus.
- [37:06]
A
Pre Demo plus you had created a company.
- [37:08]
B
Yes.
- [37:09]
A
You go out and file for an LLC or whatever.
- [37:11]
B
Yep. Got my business license, did the llc, did my business license. Right. Got. Got. Put the bond up for Nashville, for the city. Right. Went through all. Jumped through all the hoops to be, you know, to do what I needed to do within the confinements of. Of the law. Right.
- [37:25]
A
Okay.
- [37:26]
B
And so then Demo plus had backside of the property that I now own. There was a Tesla project. And so Demo plus approached me and said, hey, would you be interested in partnering on this project? And I said, I'd be willing to work with you, not for you. And so we ended up doing a JV agreement on this job and we built this Tesla, I want to say it was around a 50,000 square foot industrial building. It was a great job. So we managed it. My guys did it. And so after that project got done, Demo plus, you know, had had some of their own internal struggles. I mean, the demo market is a very tough market. And as you see, it's just in construction in general. I mean, there's some guys that, that, you know, they, they go through ups and downs and, and so they needed, they needed some assistance. And so that was really where I kind of came into play. And, and we were able to kind of put some deals together and, and I really wanted the real estate I needed to lay down. My, My side of the business was growing, but. And so. Which was called Service Industries. And. And so we were, we were growing.
- [38:35]
A
Your company name, right?
- [38:38]
B
It does still exist. It's one of the six. Yeah. And so, you know, Demo plus, it just. We looked at it as an opportunity to say, and what would happen if Demo plus closed the doors? Where would these guys go? And so I could continue to create what I'm keep building what I, what I've created, or I can take this opportunity and let's transform this, let's take this, this group to the next level. And that's really what I looked at. And there were great people. I liked the people. They were great. And I think that I saw the vision behind it. And so that's really what we put into play. And, and so, and a lot of people, and I'm not really that bashful to say it, but, you know, I was able to muster all, like, there is potential in life for people to belittle and grow to be something big. And you don't have to come from a pile of money. I was making less than 100 grand a year. You know, I want to say when I was working In Nashville, maybe 90 grand a year. And you know, but what I did is I used everything that I worked for I put back into the business. And to this day, I still put it back in the business. You know, I do things for our employees. Like we. One of the only companies, you know, I think you and I maybe talked a little bit briefly at the McCoy event about like an ESOP. And you know, and you know, we have created instead of an esop, we do a pension plan. Same thing that firefighters, you know, you know, police officers, teachers, same type of pension plan. And you know, we put in 8% of our employees gross earnings into a pension plan with a guaranteed 6% return. And obviously that comes at a huge cost to us, but in the return of it, it's hopefully that's retaining these employees. And so that's where I keep trying to put that money back, reinvest that into the growth of the business and to keep pushing the element, you know, to the next Level.
- [40:25]
A
So is it 8% on top of their earnings? You contribute?
- [40:28]
B
That I contribute. It's not like instead of doing like everybody does, like a 4%, 4% match with a 401k, we do a straight 8% over the top goes into their. Goes into their package.
- [40:40]
A
The more I learn about the market, the more I don't believe in 401ks.
- [40:44]
B
I'm right there with it.
- [40:45]
A
And I hate to say that, because that's all we have currently, but. And we do. We do a very generous match for the size of our business. But it's such a. It's like a whole racket. Like, the whole thing's what I found.
- [41:01]
B
So this is when I went and sat down with my people, I said, what can I do? And that's why I have a lot of appreciation, respect for you personally, you know, because how do you enable the young people? How do we get the young group of people to come work for us? Like, what. What can we do different than the next guy down the road? And what can I offer them? And honestly, I go back to this, you know, retainage. I want people to retain. I want to retain people. I want people to want to stay. I don't want them to go to the other side of the fence. If they go, I want them to come back. Right. I want that to. This to be the place that I give them something above and beyond. But I ask for one thing, and this is what I tell my guys. I want. I want hard work, and I want people to take care of the equipment. That's all I care about. Those are the two things. Just work hard, do a good. Do a good job with the. With the work and take care of the equipment. And. But with that. And so we. When we sat down and we talked about all these ideas, and they keep pushing 401k. 401k. Well, that's what people just push on. No, I don't want to do 401k. Yeah, no, no, that. That's. That's what you should do. No, I want something different. And I'm like, what about aesop? Talk to me about esop. Talk to me. And then this financial guy, he goes, well, have you ever thought about a pension plan? No. Talk to me about. Even though you could talk to me about that. Right? Government. Government regulated. It's very highly regulated. You know, it's. It's. And I'm like, okay. He's like, well, let's do a pension plan and a 401k. And I'm like, I don't want the 401k. How about the pension plan? Talk to me more about that. And even before we came and signed the papers and we told everybody about it, he looked me and he goes, are you sure you want to do this? You know, it's a. Employers don't do it because it's a massive, massive cost. Think about it. 8% of your total, your total payroll. It's huge. And it's a big commitment. And once you commit, you commit.
- [42:52]
A
So you put that 8% in annually or monthly or whatever it is, but it's totals 8% every year.
- [42:58]
B
Yes.
- [42:59]
A
Into.
- [42:59]
B
So you can make, you can make contributions throughout the year. So you can make, you know, annually, semiannually, quarterly, which, whatever fits your, your business matrix. But overall. And then it goes to an actuary and actuary is basically monitoring. And then it's all proportionally driven. So Everybody's earnings, that 8% that those dollars are allocated, you know, proportionally to everybody's, you know, basically their overall gross earnings. So then what happens is the people that it's three years vested, anybody that has that leaves in those three years either quits or gets fired in those three years. Those that goes back into a pot and can get redistributed to the individuals that are working for the company. Sure. So he stays.
- [43:45]
A
It was never contributed by them. It was on top of their earnings. You're not taking money from people that quit.
- [43:51]
B
Yep.
- [43:53]
A
But it goes into like in layman terms, you're putting all this money into a pot, then that pot, you can use that pot to in theory, create a return.
- [44:03]
B
Exactly through. And it comes at a guaranteed method. Yep. And it comes at a guaranteed 6% return.
- [44:08]
A
Who guarantees that?
- [44:09]
B
The institution or institution. Okay. So they'll. And this is new inner workings for us as well because this is fresh out of the womb. We're a year in on this program for ourselves.
- [44:21]
A
But you give it to an institution, they take that money to create a return.
- [44:25]
B
Yes.
- [44:25]
A
Whatever it is.
- [44:26]
B
So they'll invest into the Walmarts and the, into whatever, whatever portfolios they.
- [44:32]
A
Well, some pension funds invest in some wild shit.
- [44:36]
B
Very true.
- [44:37]
A
Yeah. But. Yes. Yeah. So their job is to go get a return and then you vest after three years. So after three years, all that you've contributed to date, ongoing. I'm entitled to. Yes. When am I entitled to that?
- [44:51]
B
After three years you could pull out. If you stayed for three years, you could actually pull it out after three years. Obviously the long term play, I will say that is probably the Only pitfall of it is I wish it was more like the union style where you were five years or 10 years vested. Like that's, that's really what I wanted.
- [45:07]
A
I mean, even like police, it's like 20.
- [45:09]
B
I wanted something that was similar to what the unions offered to, to have people be vested. I want people to, you know, to, to take that, to fight through the toughness. Right. It's easy in this day and age, I feel like it's easy for people to get mad with, you know, Billy Bob on the, you know, on the utility crew or whatever it is and say, screw you and I'm out of here. And, you know, whereas I want people to fight through the toughness and say, you know what? Tomorrow's a new day. I got a paycheck to earn. I got a family to provide for. And so, but in this program, the best that we could get was three years, even though it would have been nice to get 10. But anyways, the long term play is it's for those guys. We got a lot of people in our, in their 20s that work for us. And, and you think about that. They work for 20 years at just an average, you know, 30, you know, 28, $30 an hour employee, you know, by the time they go to retire in 20 to 30 years, they're going to have anywhere between three quarters and a million and a half dollars in that retirement account. It cost them nothing, so not a dime.
- [46:13]
A
And then how are they paid out? How does that work?
- [46:16]
B
So they, that they choose? Yep. So they, it's the same as like a 401k. So you can take it and you can take it in lump sum. You can take it, you know, you can take it in, in certain, certain groups.
- [46:27]
A
So are they taxed?
- [46:29]
B
Yep, they will be when they withdraw. Yep. It'll be just like any other earnings, whatever tax bracket they're in at the time.
- [46:35]
A
Okay, so then. But they can take it over time.
- [46:38]
B
Yep.
- [46:39]
A
Too.
- [46:39]
B
Yep.
- [46:40]
A
Interesting.
- [46:41]
B
Wow. So, I mean, it's just another token that's. Like I said, that's. We're just thinking outside the box and, and trying to do something different, so.
- [46:49]
A
Yeah, but 8% significant. I mean, what percent of your overall cost is labor? Would you say like 30% a quarter?
- [46:57]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's probably actually really, that's, that's probably really close.
- [47:03]
A
Well, Randy's, Randy's made me understand numbers for construction companies, but he's, he's the numbers guy. I don't know how he knows this shit. He does. But okay. And so your labor costs, in theory, you know that 30% of your total costs are 8% higher than another guy doing the same things other than this, however.
- [47:28]
B
And that's where everybody's got to know like in our business. And so really, you know, we look at it as, once we hit our, you know, our EBITDA goals, you know, that comes off the. That's all these are bottom line. These are bottom line costs.
- [47:40]
A
Right?
- [47:40]
B
So this is over the top. This is an extra eyes. It's almost like an extra bonus that everybody's get. Everybody gets. Yeah, but, but everybody gets it.
- [47:49]
A
Yeah, but you're. The argument for it obviously is, well, your retention is higher, people are more motivated, you have a higher quality workforce, which then allows you to make more than enough money to pay for it. And you're doing right by your people.
- [48:06]
B
And people just don't. Our generation, and I say our generation, even though sometimes I feel like it's younger than me, but that's where I try to do my part in like, like, guys, you know what you like, you got to thinking about that like when I was these 20, you know, when I was prime example, when I was platinum, you know, at 21, 22, you know, you know, my dad was telling me, you put 10% of your earnings in a 401k, that's what you got to do. That's what you're gonna need. You got to put 10% in in order for you to retire, you know, at 63 years old or whatever, or 65. And you got to put 10% away, you know, And I did that for a little while. And now I'm like, this is a joke. And so now, yeah, so all of our generation, right, we all do that. And so now I see all my peers, they don't have, they don't have a lot. They have nothing there. And so I started asking around like, well, would you guys even. Well, they can't afford in their paycheck to give up that 10% and they don't want to give up that hundred dollars a week or whatever it is into a 401k that they might not ever see. So this was a token that it's like it costs you nothing. All you have to do is show up and perform.
- [49:11]
A
But that's what I really like because I. And again, I'm saying this as an employer with a 401k but I don't want it future state. So the 401k things flawed for a few reasons. One, like our parents generation, especially Our parents, baby boomers, they grew up in the highest period of growth in human history.
- [49:38]
B
Yes.
- [49:39]
A
And mathematically speaking, it cannot continue. Like, it just. It can't. Like, the human population tapers off at a certain, like, indefinite growth is just, it's completely implausible in our lifetime. I just don't believe it. So they have been able to count on this rate of return. And, and not to criticize individuals, but to criticize this generation. Like, they, they just assume, like, they're entitled to that return forever. And, and that's not like, that's just the marketplace. That's not even home prices, for example.
- [50:17]
B
Prime example.
- [50:17]
A
Like, they've bought a house, and now they think they're like Donald Trump, you know, real estate investor, real estate mogul, because they've tripled the value of their house. It's like, no, you just bought a house like everybody else, and you've just ridden this market into this now place. Where I can't buy a house.
- [50:33]
B
Yeah.
- [50:33]
A
Not even possible right now. So. So that, that one, like, it's. It's like the math that everybody talks about is based on this crazy rate of return that the, that the US economy's delivered post World War II, which I don't see as real realistic. It is not realistic into the future. Yeah. And then two, it's putting all of the onus onto the employee. And as you said, especially in a place like the south, like, the wages suck here. The wages are wildly inadequate. It's a market. So I get everybody's within this market. But the wages in the south are the lowest anywhere in America, which makes it in Nashville. It's an expensive place to live.
- [51:15]
B
It is expensive.
- [51:15]
A
Like, it's not cheap, especially like Davidson county. And.
- [51:18]
B
Yes.
- [51:18]
A
And then, you know, let's just keep raising taxes, raising taxes, raising taxes. So it's expensive. So it's like, you know, they're getting lectured by this older generation like, oh, you need to save. You need to save this and that. When they're like, listen, I can't even. I can't afford anything right now. And then if you have children, like, God help you, because I don't know how people do that. I just don't know how it maths. And so they're not contributing to the 401k. And then ironically, they're the biggest loser in that because the sooner you start contributing, the way compounding works, like, yes. If you don't contribute in your 20s, you're essentially just fucked.
- [51:58]
B
Yeah.
- [51:59]
A
Like, if you start when you're 35.
- [52:00]
B
Yeah.
- [52:01]
A
Mathematically, just doesn't work.
- [52:03]
B
Time's not on your side. No, no.
- [52:04]
A
Like you, you. You're supposed to make all your money ironically in your 20s. So I'm, I'm on a soapbox right.
- [52:12]
B
Now.
- [52:14]
A
But I'm a huge believer in those mechanisms that save for people. Like, I'm, I'm very pro pension. I think pensions are great.
- [52:23]
B
Trust me.
- [52:23]
A
I wish I had it in practice. I mean, Yes, I think pensions have also gone way off the rails.
- [52:29]
B
Yes.
- [52:29]
A
Because people have been like, look at that pot of money. What can we do with that pot of money? And so there's a lot of pensions out there that are not solvent. Like, yeah, good luck getting that money. I mean, I, I hope it works out for you, but who knows? But in a case like yours, it's like, if you can't go esop, it's pretty damn.
- [52:54]
B
And that's the thing. You just want to. All you want to do is find ways to enable the. Enable the workers. You know, what can we do to incentivize you? What can we do to enable you? You know, there's only so much nice equipment you can give them. There's only so much tools you can give them. There's only. Everybody wants to work less, make more.
- [53:15]
A
But to argue this, why not just pay people more?
- [53:19]
B
Because in our eyes, it's still a direct correlation of profitability. So I think this is, for us, this is a direct correlation of profitability. It's also a direct correlation of how much energy. So to you, why should one guy, in my eyes, if one guy's making $25 an hour and one guy's making 30, but the guy that's working $25 an hour works his butt off and puts in more hours. Right. It's all prorated based on that time that you invest to the company.
- [53:51]
A
I see.
- [53:52]
B
And so I look at that as saying, he who provides and works his way up, and he's the one that's there on the Saturdays, given the extra effort, he's gonna make more money throughout the year. And so, yeah, I mean, could you pay more? Pay guys more money? Yeah, you absolutely could. But the problem is everybody comes in, everybody wants to prove themselves for what they are. You know, you get. And sometimes the worst situations are the ones that are paid the most money. And it's the guys that are. That are willing to come in and say, give me that opportunity. Give me the chance to show that I can prove to you that I'm the best there is. And those Are the guys that I think climb up the ladders the best. But it was just trying to put. Put something out there. I think that's different. And, And I think that we'll see. I mean, time will tell, but I mean, I think it also incentivizes people to stay. You got a token, they gotta want it, right? And I'm sorry, but if. If you're getting, you know, six, eight, $10,000 a year put into this. Into this retirement, and after three years, you got $30,000, you know, well, that. $30,000. Well, what if you would stay for 10 years? And what. Just what that. Not even any additional contributions, just what that 30,000 would compound to be at, you know, at a 6% interest. And that's. That's a worthy. Worthy, you know, pot. It's a lot more than. I mean, it's nothing. Like I said, people are starting with zero. It's not like they're contributing something. So I think that's kind of the big benefit.
- [55:19]
A
No, it. And I just asked that as like devil's advocate, but I completely believe.
- [55:24]
B
And sometimes I'm different. Here's the thing. I mean, what do you. What do you. What do you got to lose to try something to, you know, and that's kind of the whole thing. It doesn't matter if it's. If it's internal, you know, financial mechanisms within your organization or if it's. It's equipment side of things, right? Thinking outside the box. Give. Trying new equipment, trying new new technologies, trying new things. And that's where, you know, I'm a big, big advocate of, you know, like I said, trying to be. Be the guy. There's gonna be things that we're gonna try that we may not like or we may fail at, but we learn from those. Those failures. And that's. That's probably the hardest thing about being a business owner. I mean, you. You can attest to that. There's no book that says this is the way you should go. There's no book in our life that say this is how we should go through the steps of life. You got to learn through the hardship. You got to learn who to partner with.
- [56:17]
A
Well, especially when you're innovating. So there is. There is kind of a book on how to make a demolition company or a construction company. Okay, Because. And. And it's. It's different in every market, but a lot of people have done it, and it's. It's not that different. Like it, you know, how you bid work, how you perform work. Everybody uses an excavator. You know, even like there's certain state standards. Like, like, you know, DOT standards are. DOT standards, et cetera. But when you're. It starts to get really chaotic and messy, but also create a lot of opportunity when you're doing what you're. What you're saying you're doing, which is like thinking outside the box. Like doing the stuff no one else is doing. Because then it's like you're really in uncharted waters at that point.
- [57:04]
B
You're.
- [57:04]
A
You're really in the dark. Like there's a lot. I hope it works well.
- [57:08]
B
And that's the thing. Like everybody, like I even look back at from the early days of my life.
- [57:14]
A
There, it's.
- [57:15]
B
It seems simple. Like I could just go get an excavator and be a backhoe Bob, and go do stuff. But what, what. Where it gets. Starts getting difficult is when you start adding payroll to it. Your payroll taxes, your, you know, all your permits and every. Everything that you need. Just keeping everything in check. And that's where I'm so fortunate. Like I would not be here today without the team that I've surrounded myself with internally and you know, just very grateful for, you know, the people that have stuck with me, believed in me. You know, whether it's the employees, whether it's the lead, you know, the cfo, the project managers, you know, the bankers, the tax accountant, every. Everybody. That's all the steps along the way if everybody's got their own little part in it. But that's where, you know, trying to pull everybody together and try to make the best decisions, that's where it's, It's. You know, there's really not a. It's not an easy task to navigate.
- [58:08]
A
No. And I'm. I'm not saying having a construction company is easy. It's a ridiculous business. It's just so jacked up and so terrible in so many ways.
- [58:19]
B
Pay when paid, baby.
- [58:20]
A
But that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't get me started on pay when paid. But, but that's also why like you've got to be all in or else it will kill you.
- [58:29]
B
100.
- [58:29]
A
It's brutal.
- [58:30]
B
Yep. There's. But there's no half in.
- [58:32]
A
Yeah, but if you're all in, it's just like it's the only game you'll ever play in your entire life. Yeah. It's just like you got to have.
- [58:39]
B
The love, you got to have the passion, you got to have the Dr. You really gotta. You really, you really do.
- [58:43]
A
Yeah. Yeah. But you know, there's, there's, there's not that many contractors again, like, there's, there's a lot of. In the industry, like, kind of just this, especially now. Like, everybody's kind of fat, dumb and happy. Like, everybody's made a lot of money. Everybody's making a lot of money. Everybody's just stacking it up, especially post 2020. And there's just. Like, there isn't that much innovation. Like, there isn't that much really questioning convention and asking, how can we do this different? Like, you guys are. It's simple oil quick. It is. Like, once you see it used, well, you're just like, why would. Why? Like, the Europeans, they cannot understand how we even do things without oil. They're like, what do you mean you don't have oil quick? Like what? Like, what do you mean? What else is there? Like, they don't even grasp that you can have any. You can't. You can't have it. Like, they just assume it's, it's just like a standard. Whereas in the States, I can think of, beyond you three other companies off the top of my head with it, out of hundreds, thousands, I don't know. I mean, and it's crazy beneficial. It is, but it's just like.
- [60:10]
B
But it also can be a detriment. I have, I'll be honest, I've invested a lot into it. I've been a big advocate of it. I love it. But also it's employee training. Well, exactly, because if you don't take care of that tool, it's just the little, the dumbest little things just getting out when somebody gets out to go to the bathroom or, you know, you're gonna. Before you hook up an attachment or you're gonna smoke a cigarette or whatever it may be, and they get out, you know, just wiping off the couplers before you hook up. And what they don't realize is that, well, they were clean. Well, just because they were clean doesn't mean they are clean. And I think that's. That those are the things that, like, I really want to go to Europe and truly see. Like, what are the little things? What are the little details that the Europeans are doing to make. To not have those problems? Because that's where we've ran into our, Our own personal struggles is all of a sudden now an O ring is. Is blown, and now we got a leak and now that machine. You know what I mean? But when that tool works, that is the greatest tool in the world. There's nothing better than when you Got a switch from a rock wheel to a hammer to a processor to a grapple, whatever. Whatever you've gotten, you know, for your tool assortment, I say even for downtown Nashville, for the. You know, you see it. We get to work nine to three in the streets. You can. I've always visioned this.
- [61:35]
A
You.
- [61:35]
B
I mean, just like the. I love watching the European stuff, but pulling in with a. With a gooseneck trailer, with your tools on the trailer, you go for the day, you remove your road plates. And if you got a dig and drum cut, a little bit of rock out of the street and dig and drum cut, you can do that with all your tools right there.
- [61:52]
A
Well, they would. What they would do is they would have a trailer hooked up to a wheeled excavator, which is so sweet, with a tilt rotator and oil quick on the wheeled excavator and all the tools for the wheeled excavator within the trailer.
- [62:02]
B
Telling you, I might be that guy in demo in Nashville. Yeah, that's what we need. Yes, you need that.
- [62:08]
A
And like, again, I'm not a contractor. I always say I'm just some asshole in the stands like you guys should. You know what? You can't throw the ball this and that, you know, you know those guys at sports games. I don't go to sports games, but everybody knows those people. Like, oil quick is not the end all be all, but it's just like, it's such a good. That's one of my favorite examples of, like, why aren't more contractors doing this? Like, this is so. And. And. And whenever I talk tilt rotators or oil quick or even see discourse about it, everybody's like, like, oh, I can't afford that. It's like.
- [62:45]
B
But if you'd break down the numbers. And when I first started buying oil quick, this is no joke. It was a cat quick coupler for like a. Like say a 336 or whatever. I want to say at the time was the 13, 14 grand, something like that, maybe even 15 grand was for a quick coupler and that you're going to get no matter what. And to go with an oil quick on it, I want to say was like 18 grand. It was only like three to four, maybe $5,000 more. In the schema, you're talking about a $400,000 unit. So as a growing company like us now, obviously I understand people that have a fleet of iron. And you're going to convert that over now you're spending that 20 grand on it to do that, plus all your Buckets. And that's where it gets dirty is all your attachments and all your tools, they've gotten way, way more expensive in that regards. And trying to find a fabricator and there's, there's definitely a little more cost associated with that.
- [63:38]
A
Yes.
- [63:38]
B
But machine to machine, you know, you're not spending that much more money, you know, to get it. And so as you're, if you're buying a new machine, well, why not just put that on that new machine? So we have incorporated now in our fleet that anything under a 330, we have 336s and 340s with HCs or oil and Oil Quicks. And we've learned that we, we actually run all cats couplings on even the oil cooks. We switch out the fittings just because they're a little bit different, but every, everything below that now. So 330s and under all run the oil quick 80s. And then now the new 336s and 340s, we just get them all with 90 millimeter pins. So they all run the same quick couplers. That's good on, on that size.
- [64:23]
A
Yeah.
- [64:23]
B
And try to keep that way everything from basically from a 320 size machine to a 340 size machine, which is the bulk of our, our units, they all run the same, you know, they can pick up any tool, any hammer. So you know, you can go, you know, you might, it might be a big hammer for it, but maybe we need to put up, you know, an H160 hammer on a three, you know, on a 330 or something like that or 325.
- [64:46]
A
You know, that's how you have to do it. You have to standardize it a little bit. But even, even just the education on how to use the tools and how to use the coupler, like wiping everything off is one thing, but even, I mean, it's just spectacular watching a skilled demolition operator in somewhere like Switzerland because they are switching tools every two minutes. Like they're switching tools sometimes 50 times an hour.
- [65:10]
B
Yeah.
- [65:10]
A
On a, on just a typical demo job. It's incredible. But just that it's like a different skill set though, that you have to learn.
- [65:17]
B
Yeah, no, and I got to give a lot of credit, you know, a little plug, you know, east coast demo. Ricky.
- [65:25]
A
Ricky's the, he was one of the ones I was thinking of with Oil Quick.
- [65:28]
B
He's, he's the bomb. He's one. Got me into it. Met him out at Con Expo at the, at the Oil Quick booth. And Ricky just A great dude. And, and him and I like hit it off and.
- [65:38]
A
But how old do you think Ricky is?
- [65:40]
B
He's my age. Him and I are the same age, so.
- [65:42]
A
Younger guy.
- [65:43]
B
Yeah. Again, that's like same thing. But, but he's an innovator.
- [65:47]
A
He's like questioning, is there a better way to do this? Oh, yes, it's working for a whole continent.
- [65:54]
B
Yes.
- [65:54]
A
So maybe it could work for us too. Maybe not, but maybe let's try it. And yeah, he's got his fleet's. Yeah, his fleet's looking slick.
- [66:03]
B
He does presentation. I mean, he's got the same visual, right? It's all about optics, it's all about presentation quality. You know, you were talking about earlier about just demolition, like cleansliness, right? Him and I, we've talked about that. Just a good, clean looking demo, you know, and training your team to do that. You know, to the dirt world guys, right? We drive by and we look at that and it's funny because I talk to, you know, the marketing guys and I'm like, you know, when you look at, when I see a picture, like that's the things that I'm critiquing, right? You go to a dirt job and if you've seen everything in a disarray, but when, you know, you're questioning, why are, why are the trucks, why are there only two trucks over there and that track hose sitting there? You know, because you've seen efficiency, you've seen quality on operation, on how, how the operation should go. Yeah, and that's the same goes for a lot of other guys, but to the average Joe, like they don't, they don't see that. They just, they just see equipment moving and.
- [66:57]
A
No, but, but, but cleanliness I think is one of. There's no great companies that have shit looking equipment.
- [67:08]
B
Correct.
- [67:08]
A
And shit looking people. I just, I can't think of one. They're all vite, for example, going back to Veit. They are buttoned up, everybody. Their equipment is beautiful, their trucks are beautiful.
- [67:22]
B
They're.
- [67:22]
A
I'm not going to say their people are beautiful, but their people, they look good. Like everybody, everybody looks good. And there's stories of if someone would bring back their pickup truck to the yard, unwashed, Vaughn would threaten to take. I'm taking that truck from you.
- [67:37]
B
I remember a story and this, I've heard this down the road, but there was a job that they had in North Dakota and they bought a couple haul trucks and it was back in the day when Vaughn was painting the stuff. I think Like a little different color. Yellow.
- [67:50]
A
Yeah.
- [67:50]
B
But he had to have flames on the truck. So they needed them. They're like, we need them now. We need them today. And they're like, nope. So they had to go through the paint booth to get the flames put on the side of the truck. I mean, it's just he cared about his equipment.
- [68:01]
A
Ghost flames. Yeah, yeah, he's got ghost flames.
- [68:04]
B
He cared about his equipment. And I used to joke that, you know, that, that some of the guys I worked for back in the day, like, man, they just really cared about their equipment, you know, and now I'm that guy. Like, I totally understand what they were looking at. Like, I understand what Veid. What Veidt was thinking. Like driving on the road, how you want counterweights facing the, facing the roadside or whatever it is, right? You want that presentation, you want that name recognized. Flying high. You want your flag. Flag flying high.
- [68:30]
A
Yeah.
- [68:31]
B
So, yeah, they do a great job.
- [68:33]
A
There's a demolition company. I don't know what the hell they're doing nowadays, but they would have yelled, they would have cap paint on site. You scratch a counterweight, it's getting painted that day.
- [68:43]
B
My guys have tried to pull that on me a few times, but, you know, every once in a while I go for a little walk and it's like, man, this thing got, got scarred up pretty good.
- [68:50]
A
Yeah, yeah, but, but, but they were a demolition company and it was, it was big equipment. Some of the stuff old. Yeah, but just spotless counterweights.
- [69:00]
B
I think knowing now we have, we've refurbished, we've repainted a lot of our equipment, and truth be told, if you take care of it, you know, and you get to that, you know, four or five thousand hour range, and it's starting to look tough. I mean, a $10,000 paint job goes a long ways. And it's, it's peanuts in the whole scheme of things. And so I think it just goes to show that you care. But even at the end of the day, like even trying to push on to the guys, and I don't know what other companies do, but, you know, we're trying to really implement, you know, making sure the guys. Every machine's got Windex towels, you know, a broom, sweep out the cabs every day, you know.
- [69:35]
A
No, we were in Indonesia. They don't wear boots in the cab. Every cab, spotless. I was in this one. It was a Lee bearer 9350, so 350 ton machine. Pretty big excavator with like 40 or 50,000 hours on it. Walk up to the cab, spotless.
- [69:54]
B
Do all the, A lot of the equipment. When you're over in these other scenes, do they all got radios and not, not like, not like AMF and radios, but like connect like CBs or two way radios?
- [70:05]
A
Well, in mining that's standard, but even.
- [70:08]
B
Like on some of like the other like commercial sites and stuff like that. Is that how they're communicating with their ground guys? Or like, I mean, how do you stay in a cab and keep it clean and not get out?
- [70:19]
A
With radio? Yeah.
- [70:21]
B
Just with what they need.
- [70:22]
A
Yeah. With radio, Yeah. I think radio is a great tool too. I don't understand why companies don't spend more on radio. Especially when you have all your. It's just like, maybe this doesn't make sense. But okay, you have an Earthworks crew, everybody, they get together in the morning, they have a 10 minute meeting that probably is not that effective. I've been to hundreds of them, maybe probably even thousands at this point. Very few are all that effective. So everybody kind of shows up and it's early in the morning and, and it might be dark, especially in winter. Everybody's cold. Nobody wants to talk. You do your thing, you get your machines. That's that if you don't have radios, like, yeah. You're not talking to people all day. Which is just in my opinion inhuman. And like, how do you build camaraderie? How do you build a team?
- [71:11]
B
Where's the communication?
- [71:12]
A
Yeah. When you're not communicating.
- [71:13]
B
Yeah.
- [71:14]
A
And this I have a problem too with like company policies because the safety people, I appreciate the safety thing, but I think they just take it too far sometimes. Like, like chit chatting on the radio is unsafe. It's like, okay, dude, come on. Like you're gonna, you're, you go sit in that machine for 12 hours and not talk to fucking anybody for 12 hours for six days a week. And then you tell me like, oh, you shouldn't do chit chat. Like that's, that's part of it. Like that's, that's, that's actually, I would argue making the operation safer. If some guy on a Monday's shooting the shit with the other guy next to him in a machine, talking to him about the bass he caught on, you know, yesterday and how big it was and like the other guy saying, oh, that's bullshit, there's no way you caught that. He's like, no, I'll show you a picture at lunch. Like, you know that conversation.
- [72:03]
B
Yeah, you got to have the camaraderie.
- [72:04]
A
That'S, yeah, that's building a relationship. And so even beyond just communicating on what's going on with the project, just the overall like enabling that communication with people in cabs because you think like the whole remote work thing is new, but it's like construction has been remote work since day one.
- [72:23]
B
Yeah.
- [72:24]
A
It's either remote from a, you know, how many jobs do you have going at any time? 15. 10.
- [72:29]
B
Yeah. 15. 20.
- [72:30]
A
15, 20. So you don't see your whole workforce.
- [72:34]
B
No.
- [72:34]
A
Ever. You can't see your whole workforce in a whole day unless you shut the company down, bring everybody in. So that's, that's one, just the amount of sites and then two again if you're in a machine all day, you're, you're isolated, you're on your own. And so if you don't have the ability to communicate, then you're on your own.
- [72:53]
B
No, I agree and I think that that's where, that's something that we've definitely been trying to implement more is like I said, having two way radios on the job sites and you know, just you, you got, like you said, you don't get enough dialogue in that morning meeting to know what everybody's doing especially on the bigger operation side of things.
- [73:12]
A
Yeah. And even a 10 acre site, like, like somebody's over in this corner, somebody's over in that corner. That's a lot of space in between two people.
- [73:19]
B
Yes.
- [73:20]
A
And there's you, you know, you don't know what's going on on that side of the site. So I, I, yeah, I'm very, yeah.
- [73:25]
B
We'Re blasting like on that job, you know, we're blasting 2A days right now. So.
- [73:29]
A
Sure.
- [73:30]
B
So you know, you take that, you know, well, it's, you got to stop everything, get everything consolidated to a corner. You got your stand down time or even just you know, lightning stand downs, you know, just weather delays and stuff like that and just following, you know, protocol. So.
- [73:45]
A
And I get the safety thing, but I feel like you can have both agreed. Even when we were in Indonesia, I don't, I don't speak the, the language. It's Bahasa. I don't, I don't speak a lick of Bahasa. But you know, we were in the, in the pickup trucks driving around the light vehicles, driving around these mine sites and they'd always have the radio on because you always, you always have your radio on, especially in a light vehicle. And you could tell the guys were talking shit and because they were laughing like they were having a good Time. I had no idea what they were saying, but you could tell they were enjoying themselves. And it's like, to me, that's a positive indication. And these operations were buttoned up. They were dialed in. Some of the most efficient earthmoving I've seen. Beautiful, beautiful cuts. Every bucket full, trucks backing in where they needed to. It was just spotless, really pretty stuff. But that's part of it. Like, if guys are having fun over the radio, I can probably tell you if that's an efficient operation or not. Like, if they enjoy being there, they're gonna be more efficient. They're gonna be safer. It's gonna be. It's gonna be better. And that's where I was talking with. I haven't said this a lot publicly yet, because I'm still trying to figure out how to frame it, but I was talking with some friends of mine at dinner the other night. That's where I think safety has screwed something. This. This, like, this just insatiable appetite for safety. Like, nothing can be too safe. We. Safety at all costs. This and that. Like, I think it's gone in some cases too far, because making things almost more unsafe, it's like sterilized things, which exactly, I would argue, makes things either less safe or more miserable.
- [75:35]
B
Yes.
- [75:36]
A
Or both. And if it's more miserable, it's probably more. Less safe. And so it's. It's. It's. It's just. It's just sterilized things. And it's like I fell in love with construction, and maybe I'm the only one, but fell in love with it. Because it wasn't sterile.
- [75:50]
B
Yes.
- [75:50]
A
Because it was imperfect. Because it did just suck some days. And because the other people I was working with were talking a bunch of shit. And I was talking a bunch of shit. Like, I could tell my boss to go fuck off, and he would tell me to fuck off, and we would laugh, and it would be 115 degrees out. We'd both be miserable. But, like, that was the point. Like, we. We. We had that. And that's my struggle with some of these safety programs and some of these big companies. It's just like. It makes it so. It's like, guys, this isn't. This isn't law. Like, this isn't a doctor's office. We don't. This isn't. Can we have a little bit of fun while we work?
- [76:31]
B
You got to take a little bit of this. You got to have. You got to find the enjoyment.
- [76:34]
A
Yes. Or else, like, what's the point?
- [76:36]
B
Yeah. I mean, I 100% agree with you. It's kind of like, you know, I was mentioning earlier, you know, like, so I got a farm in central Minnesota and it's like, you know, you create that banter. Well, how many acres did you harvest today? Or how many acres did you, you know, put down? You know, it's, it's, you create a, a level of competition amongst, within. Yeah. You know, or whatever it is. But that's how you do it with like, even though like, you know, you might be, might having that banter with your neighbor and it might not be your own internal operation, but it's like, oh, how many acres did you plant today? Oh, I did this, you know, and, and that's how the construction industry needs to be. It needs to be like good, fun competition to do a better job, to do better quality. Like, hey, you know, this is, you know, whatever it is, you know, I think that plays a big part because if you enjoy it, you're going to stay there longer. You're going to, you know, you got to find enjoyment with what we do.
- [77:30]
A
Well and you're going to legitimately care for the people around you. You're not just going to fucking hate people.
- [77:35]
B
Yes.
- [77:36]
A
It's not going to make it miserable. The safest sites I've been to, the safest operations I've been to, they're either command and control. We will, if I find you without a seatbelt, you will be fired. So like it's, it's rule, it's fear based rules. I've seen that, I've seen it actually quite a bit. That's, that's kind of like where the big companies are going because it's, it culture's hard and caring is hard. It's a lot easier to just threaten people and fire people and rule through fear. So it's either that and it is very safe because they don't allow you to do anything.
- [78:17]
B
Yeah.
- [78:20]
A
So restricted. Which is great. Okay. If that's really the goal. Fantastic. Or they're the companies without these big safety programs and without these big safety departments. You have to have something to qualify even for, you know, these more sophisticated jobs and customers. So you do have to have something. But they have more of like a. Everybody is the safety manager. Like the safety manager is only there to really take care of the paperwork and to support because that's a necessary role within the industry nowadays and it's important. But they're not there to catch you, they're just there to help. But you're in charge of your Safety. And you're in charge of everybody else's safety and they're in charge of their safety and they're in charge of everybody else's safety. And they're actually, it's when you're, you're looking out for everybody and genuinely caring about those around you, it makes it very safe. Which is not groundbreaking.
- [79:15]
B
No.
- [79:16]
A
And those are the sites I love to be at the most. When you can tell. And you can tell it's like pretty easy to tell what kind of site it is. But when everybody's legitimately, when they're enjoying being there, when they're legitimately caring for one another, that is.
- [79:32]
B
Yeah. Because safety should be. Safety is about the culture. Safety is not about dictation. And so I agree that. And that's where we've kind of lost track of what it is. And everybody needs to be accountable for all their actions, you know, and creating that culture around. But yet I do agree that to these bigger, to the bigger environment, to the bigger contractors, you know, it's definitely, I think it's taken a step too far. But obviously we understand, I mean the cost of insurance, the cost of claims.
- [80:01]
A
Yes.
- [80:02]
B
We can't tolerate it. It.
- [80:03]
A
Yeah.
- [80:04]
B
And so how do we mitigate that? And obviously there's, there's proven matrixes that, that show that, you know, you stretch and stretch and flex in the morning, that you have less work comp claims or whatever that may be. You know.
- [80:16]
A
So yeah, I would always, I would also question, question. I, I very much question the stretch and flex thing.
- [80:23]
B
But do you still see, this is maybe random, but do you still see like the old, the back in the day that was a little while they were going through the fit test. Do you see contractors, you ever hear any contractors ever talk about the fit doing a fit test, like a pre hire fit test before they hire employees?
- [80:42]
A
And what is that?
- [80:43]
B
Well, I guess they go through like a physical. And so for a little while there was a group of. This was probably less than 10 years ago, there was like a little transition where a lot of companies were going and they were doing a fit test for their employees. But what they were finding out is that these employees would get through the fit test and oh, I'm perfect, perfect condition. Now suddenly I'm not perfect condition. And so now you had the standard of perfect condition to not perfect condition. Well now the work environment created this not perfect condition. And truth in truth of the reality is, is that the people weren't really, they were buffalo on their way through the fit condition. And exaggerating their unfit condition.
- [81:21]
A
So I've seen.
- [81:22]
B
So it's kind of all gone by the wayside now.
- [81:25]
A
I think it goes back to like caring and not caring. And you can, I mean maybe some old timers in business are like, this guy is a moron. I can't wait for him to learn one day. But I'm just, I'm a believer in if you legitimately care for people, things work out for you. You. And I think the root of that was let me. And I've seen this done even on a country basis, like even going to operations in different countries. Like I had to go, we didn't end up going for, for various reasons, but I had to go get a chest X ray, physical blood test, everything to, to have a baseline before I went to site.
- [82:12]
B
Oh really?
- [82:13]
A
And they require that for everybody. So I have, I have seen that. I just think a lot of times it's like, well, let's do it to avoid liability, to like limit our liability.
- [82:26]
B
Rather than.
- [82:29]
A
Like come at it from a. How do we make our people. Our entire business is based on the, the physical health and well being of people. Like that's. And that's what is missing oftentimes totally missing in safety programs, which drives me nuts. And that's again what drives me nuts about stretch and flex thing is like I don't criticize stretch and flex. I just criticize the fact that everybody is like wildly unhealthy on these sites and we're going to act like stretch and flex is the solution to solving for muscular musculoskeletal issues.
- [83:06]
B
When I'll be honest, I, I love, I actually really. So I get up every. Most days I try to since the data center is not far from where we live. And so I try to go there, you know, get up at five, be the. We start at six. Six is stretch and flex. So. And then I'll go to the office, but I get to kick off. But it's, it's almost like a team building exercise.
- [83:29]
A
I think it's great when done right. I really, I think it's great.
- [83:32]
B
The purpose, I don't know about, but as far as a team building atmosphere, I think it's a little. Like you said, it gets to be a little. I like it because it's almost like what you're talking earlier about the little bit of the banter, right? And you get to, you get to call out, you know, you get, hey, you know, you know, whoever it is, hey Chris, you know you're gonna lead the Pack today, you know, and, and I think that that's kind of, I think kind of the enjoyment behind that aspect of it.
- [84:00]
A
No, I, I, again, I, I, I, I'm not criticizing that. I'm criticizing, like, just the overall approach that is, I just find it fascinating that there's not more talk about people's health and wellness. And especially, even just, like, even just the work hours thing. Like when you're working twelves, six days a week, seven days a week. When you're doing seven days a week, which is, I mean, that's not uncommon right now, especially some seven days a week. Let's go.
- [84:31]
B
We've got a schedule to meet.
- [84:32]
A
Yep. When you're doing that consistently, it is really hard to be healthy.
- [84:40]
B
Yes.
- [84:41]
A
Really hard to be healthy. I mean, like, damn near impossible, I would say, like, just, and I mean, put a family on top of that. No chance. I mean, to, to get, you're supposed to get eight hours sleep. You're supposed to get eight hours sleep. You'Re supposed to eat well, you're supposed to have vitamins, you're supposed to not drink, you're supposed to not smoke. Like, even just those basics, supposed to stay hydrated. Not even close. Not even close. And I just think there's, I'm like, I'm not even, I don't even want to criticize it. I'm just saying, based on what I see, there's so much opportunity there. Like, it's, it's, let's go after all this other safety stuff. But then there's just no discourse there whatsoever. Or the industry is now talking about mental health, but they don't talk about, they don't talk. They're, they talk about it by saying we should talk about it.
- [85:34]
B
Very true.
- [85:35]
A
It's like, very true. Well, one, I don't know how to talk about it, but two, are we gonna act like mental health is not tied to physical health? And are we gonna act like, like, are we not going to talk about alcohol and we're not going to talk about opioids and we're not going to talk about what people are eating and we're not going to talk about sleep? Like, how do you talk about mental health when you're not going to talk about physical health? I just don't. There's, like, inconsistencies there, and I don't have the answers to that. But that's what drives me a little nuts is those inconsistencies.
- [86:08]
B
Yeah, no, I agree with you.
- [86:10]
A
But, but I think if you going back to the Main point, like, very pro. Everybody going home say, I'm on board with that. I think that's like no brainer. I just think there's multiple ways to get there. And I think there's been this one dominant path that is command control, fear based. They won't say it, but it is fear based. And then there's this other path that is this genuine deep sense of caring that is harder but goes a lot further and creates so much more value for everybody and is way more enjoyable and more holistic. Like, I think the path you're going down sounds like you have to, you.
- [86:49]
B
Have to, you have to try to find a middle of the road because you can't run everybody off because of what it is. You gotta, you gotta find some workability within it. And so, but you're right. I mean, you nailed on some really good points. Some points that I've even thought about, I've joked with, with, with within that. I said that we would probably be more efficient than everybody door dashing their, their lunch every day for what they spend to get, you know, get old Sandra to come out with the food truck and.
- [87:16]
A
Yes.
- [87:17]
B
In, you know.
- [87:17]
A
Yes.
- [87:18]
B
You know, make lettuce for the boys. I don't know, make salads.
- [87:21]
A
I don't know.
- [87:21]
B
But even, you know, even like grill some chicken burritos, whatever.
- [87:25]
A
Yes, yes. I mean, it'll be better than gas station.
- [87:29]
B
It absolutely be better than gas station. The problem is it's just hard to break people of those habits. I know we've struggled really hard. You know, we've implemented, you know, I don't allow smoking in any of the vehicles. And in our culture, that's really, really tough. It's probably the toughest thing that I've ever thought I've ever have to endure. My guys are embracing it pretty dang good. But it's a work in progress. And I'm sure other, there's other owners out there, other companies that, that, that feel the same pain that we're in. And it's like, well, I got a really good guy, but, you know, being difficult on, you know, smoking in the seat and, and so. But then you got the next guy that's a really good guy and doesn't smoke. Was it fair for him to get into a, get into a cab? And now he's inhaled a bunch of, you know, secondhand smoke from the, you know, so, so whole another. Yeah, whole nother ball game.
- [88:22]
A
We've all been there.
- [88:23]
B
Yeah.
- [88:23]
A
Just the smell of a cab.
- [88:25]
B
Yeah. Or now the, now the New kids vaping and putting a glaze. So we've, you know, you had to implement, you know. No, no, nothing.
- [88:35]
A
Why does this cab smell like blueberries? Who's been eating this? Blueberries in this 340? Yeah, it's. It's. Again, I don't have the answers. I just. This is the stuff I've been thinking about lately, and I. I so badly want this to be an industry that people want to be in. I just think we're kidding ourselves if we act like it's everybody else's problem and not our problem.
- [89:03]
B
What is. You know, one of the questions I always had, you know, what are the overseas. What are these guys doing for their training? Like, how are they training? Is it on the job training? Is there training schools? There's. That's been a lot of things on my mind here locally is, you know, we. We obviously we host a. You know, I try to do that like I do our day of the Dozer event for. For get kids in construction. And really, I love. I love promoting construction. I mean, I'm. Like I said, I'm. I'm one of your biggest advocates. I love the. The pushing of construction, and I think there's such a. A good opportunity out there to make a good living.
- [89:38]
A
Yeah.
- [89:39]
B
But, you know, it's interesting. We get a lot of people here locally, and they're like, oh, I would love to learn. I love, love seeing what you guys post. Where do I go to do. Do it? And it's like, well, we don't have, you know, you can't be the training grounds for it. And so I'm curious, always curious, what other countries do.
- [89:54]
A
I want to. I want to talk about day of the Dozer. So don't let me lose track of that, because I think that's.
- [89:59]
B
Yeah, the dozer's great.
- [90:00]
A
Damn cool what you do, but I think that's what everybody's trying to figure out. And we're. We're building a business around that right now. I just think every other company or every. A lot of other countries are. There's a lot of training. I would say, like, even in Europe, I mean, there's. There's. It's just like built into the society other than.
- [90:29]
B
Other than union states. Like, I know, like Central. Have you ever been up to Central Lakes Heavy Equipment School in central Minnesota up by Staples?
- [90:37]
A
No, I've been to the 49ers facility up there.
- [90:39]
B
Okay.
- [90:40]
A
And that's very impressive.
- [90:42]
B
Very impressive. Yep. So very similar. So Central Lakes has a heavy equipment operator school up there. And maybe that is the 40, I'm not sure. But you know, truth be told, like that's what I enroll. I started, I was on my way to go do that and then I decided last minute that I was going to go to school to get a, get a construction management degree. Yeah. And but one of the things that I've been thinking about a lot lately, like even here, locally in Nashville, I'm like, that's one of the goals that I have is to put a group of people together to contribute to building some sort of a technical operating school in the earthwork world. Because we need to find ways to train and to educate people. But we don't have the ability when productions are high and you got deadlines to meet and you got, you know what I mean? All those things, the safety, the deadlines, you don't have time to sit out there and train someone.
- [91:38]
A
No. And I think that's where the whole, the civil construction industry, they've got a real big pickle right now because the whole previous generation like it, the whole safety thing happened pretty quick. And what I mean by that is the construction industry now has this zero tolerance for accidents, incidents, whoopsies, near misses even. There's no tolerance for anything. But ironically, that's how the whole previous generation learned. Like the whole previous generation that wasn't like, not even that long ago. They learned through whoopsies.
- [92:21]
B
Yeah.
- [92:21]
A
Like, did they not, I mean, 100.
- [92:23]
B
Trial and error, everybody. They were farm kids. I mean that's, that's what.
- [92:27]
A
Yeah.
- [92:28]
B
Right. I mean. Yeah. I was 8 years old when I, when I got to drive a skid loader. Now I look at an 8 year old kid and I would never trust you in my skid loader. Yeah.
- [92:34]
A
But, but you know, and how many whoopsies did you do?
- [92:37]
B
There was a few situations, I can tell you one time where I had a hay bale up real high and you realize the tipping point on a skid loader. Yeah.
- [92:44]
A
You know, I've put a skid steer on its roof. Yeah. And put it on the Internet. But, but when I did, everybody, everybody was like, I've been there. A lot of company owners even like, yep, been there. That's how I learned. But now that's not an option anymore. And so you had, everybody says there's on the job training. They, they still think on the job training exists, but as you just said, you can't afford on the job training. The schedules are too tight and then the, the standards are too, are too stringent. It just doesn't work. But that, so when people say on the job training, that is how the whole industry came up. But now on the job training doesn't exist. It can exist, it just doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't math anymore. And so there's just this, this black hole. And, and but everybody says no, we have on the job training. They don't have training. No one has training. No. And, and some do, some do. I'm painting with a broad brush. But industry wide, the industry does not train and they still, the industry broad brush again hasn't gotten to the point where they have to value training and they have to do training. There's very little training. Very picture, very little. And so I think and we're building a business within this chasm and I mean that's what build would improve is it's video based training. It doesn't solve the problem but at least tries to shorten that, that knowledge gap a little bit by, by taking that institutional knowledge and putting it in.
- [94:26]
B
So you just need to build with.
- [94:28]
A
School and consumable format. Well, yes, but, but even if we did that, it's just, it doesn't scale.
- [94:35]
B
Yeah.
- [94:35]
A
And so that's what I'm sitting here thinking. Like I, I think the only answer is schools. Sure. But I think the only answer is internal programs at each company.
- [94:46]
B
Company. You got to do something. I mean that's where the, you know, the simulators have played a big role.
- [94:50]
A
Like simulators.
- [94:51]
B
You know, I know there's a handful of guys out there that have them. You know, we've looked at getting them. You know, we, we have plans to eventually be building a new office ourselves. And that's one of the things that, that are, are a must to have in there.
- [95:05]
A
But, but I, I think simulators are great, but I also think it's like Saturday morning in the dirt pile. You know, you've still got to get in the seat, you've still got to run stuff. Like you still.
- [95:18]
B
The big, the big token of that is training. There's a value to training people but it, ultimately it's tough to come at a cost. Right. To the, to the company. That's the difficult part of it is that at how much cost do you invest into that? Right. You need to invest some sort of training into a level of training. But to, and that's where like I am like, like I said, I am being a big advocate. That's one thing about why I think we were talking earlier about the class A players up in Minnesota. Well, you think about it, there are a lot of people that come out of those training schools. They come out of the 49er schools, right? They come from the union, you know, they, they come from, you know, like I said, whether it's Central Lakes Heavy Equipment School. And so those situations, those guys have paid to go there, right? They want to be there, they want to be part of it, and they've learned and now they've, they've got something in return. Whereas sometimes when other people, you don't always, you're not always getting everything that, because you're paying the bill for them to go. They're not putting everything into it that.
- [96:21]
A
They can have and, and you just can't afford it either. Like, it's, it's just not been built into the economics of the industry, right? Because on the job, training quote unquote's been the standard since the beginning of time. And, and you have more people than ever before. The majority of people showing up on job sites, they've never been on job sites. Now, like, at least, you know, you farm kid. I grew up in Paradise Valley, Arizona. I. The first time I was on a job site was 18 years old. And you could say I'm dumb for that, but it's like, is it my fault? Like, I didn't, I didn't get a choice when I popped out of the womb, like, so how do you want to grow up? Do you want to go to the farm or do you want to go to Paradise Valley? Like, like. No, that wasn't, that wasn't an option. I just, I just, you're just born where you're born. You just grow up how you grow up. And so day one, I walk onto a site with no experience, no knowledge, but does that exclude me from construction? Like, thank goodness it didn't because I wouldn't be here had it. Had it did. A lot of people think it does. And a lot of people, I think, chase these younger people off by making them feel dumb because they don't know how to use a tape measure or how to use a shovel effectively or how to push a broom. But it's like you, you're, you think that you just knew how to push a broom, but you actually learned that as a kid, right? By probably like getting smacked upside the head.
- [97:50]
B
You got shown it once or twice.
- [97:51]
A
You got shown it once or twice. You better learn quick.
- [97:53]
B
Yeah.
- [97:55]
A
And you're thinking that that's like your intelligence, but you learned that too. Yes, you just learned it, you know, you learned it so long ago you forgot when you learned it?
- [98:04]
B
No, I think as you're sitting here talking, you know, I, I'm thinking about the video that you posted when you went to Ames and they were doing the Scrapers, you know, and they were, they had all the new hires, you know, they were in there basically trying the guys out in like whatever it was. I don't know if it was a test cut fill situation and like, yeah, that's a perfect scenario. I wish every project we could do something like that. I wish it was big enough and long enough that we could, you know, go there. But unfortunately, like in our, in our company's world, the projects are small, they are integral and it's really tough for us to, you know, to incorporate that. So.
- [98:44]
A
Yeah, and it's very tough. And like I said, like the economics haven't caught up yet. But that's the only solution.
- [98:52]
B
It is the only solution. I agree with you.
- [98:54]
A
It just, it is like, and I wish I had a better answer. And the unions are doing great work. Like 49, like 150. I would say a lot of the unions are great. I would not say they're all great because I hear the other side of the people employing them and I, there's a big skills gap there. And I'm not afraid to say it like I'm not union, non union. I'm just. They have the same problem everybody else does. Yeah, there are some, some of them are running in a play that is totally outdated. Like some private companies, non union companies are. So there are, there are great organizations out there, but that's a very small percentage of the overall workforce.
- [99:36]
B
Well, that's why I think you got it. And I look at just my experiences. I've given people the opportunity putting, you know, I'll never forget I was on Blattner. I was on, I was out in the Athena, Oregon. Athena, Oregon wind farm. And I think it was called Van Sickle 2, I think was the name of the project. And I've never ran a dozer. And I'll never forget, I mean the guy was like, I was like, do you think you would let me run this, Run a dozer? He's like, absolutely. And we went on this open road, we're out in this massive farm field. Put me in a D8 and I'm telling you, I had like six foot rolling waves going. You know, I didn't understand compensation.
- [100:10]
A
Yeah.
- [100:10]
B
Now, now to this day I honestly, I feel like I'm the, I'm a hell of a dozer hand you know, I mean, just time changes. Like, you know, that guy gave me that opportunity. But you're so afraid to get in the seat. And so some people just pick up that knack. And I have found that with our group that with patience and working with guys side by side, you know, and just getting some seat time in there, the ability that they can pick up. But you just sometimes you just don't always have that. And so that's really.
- [100:37]
A
Yeah, it's again, I wish it was like a, there was an easy button to press. I do think it is though. How do you create those opportunities in a more controlled environment? Even like a Saturday morning.
- [100:48]
B
Yeah.
- [100:48]
A
Somewhere on a lot, you know, you have to rent a piece of property, put some dirt on it or put some crushed concrete on it and let them process shit for, for two hours in the morning. And yeah, you're going to incur this additional cost. But then like your pension program, for example, it's like, well, this is actually an investment in these people and the return I'm going to get for my business. Because if you can crack the nut that is printing effective printing effective people within your business, like if you can create. I think a lot of companies, they've been able to get away with not really creating because there's been enough people within the marketplace. But if you look at it, I've really thought about creation versus consumption. Like a lot of these companies, they're just consuming people, right. They're just trying to, you see it all the time. Hiring experienced blade hand. It's like you and everybody else, good fucking luck. And if you find one that's looking for work right now, I don't know if you want to hire them. Generalization.
- [101:51]
B
But yeah, you're spot on. I mean that's a really good point. I actually, I really agree with you there.
- [101:57]
A
Yeah, but if you look at it from a creation standpoint, listen, the more operators, the more foremen, the more people, effective people laborers. Whatever it is I can create as a business, the better off I will be. And I think that is your competitive advantage. It's not even your equipment, your technology, your process at that point, it's your ability to create.
- [102:18]
B
Yeah, because you know, you know that, that, that 22 year old that maybe didn't have that much seat time, but maybe as a farm kid has been on a skid loader, but he hasn't had the opportunity to sit on that dozer seat. But like you said, you give him that chance, you give him that opportunity, you know, he's probably going to shine. You're right. I mean I agree that if you can enable and, and create that opportunity for them rather than you're trying to find someone.
- [102:40]
A
Yeah. And, and you know, maybe a trade school is a longer term play, but you know this like if you're sitting around waiting for somebody to put a trade school here in middle Tennessee, you're going to be, you're going to be waiting a long time.
- [102:51]
B
Could be a while, could be a while, you know, but never say never. That might be the program.
- [102:59]
A
The event you put on that I keep missing because I'm always out of the country. When you put it on.
- [103:05]
B
Day of the dozer.
- [103:06]
A
Day of the dozer.
- [103:07]
B
Love it.
- [103:08]
A
How did that come to be?
- [103:09]
B
You know, for me, I am, I love. I was the kid that was just obsessed with equipment. I mean I was the sandbox full of Tonka toys. I was the kid that would put a lawn chair out and watch the farmer go round and round in the field next door. You know, just always equipment obsessed. And so this was just always something that. I don't know, I just. Once I bought Demo Plus. I said I wanted to do something to give back to. I want to enable kids to get infatuated about the construction industry. Everybody loves seeing big equipment. And so I decided to put on this event where we invite, we invite about 180 of our customers, basically everybody that's developer, general contractor and we invite them out to a Saturday, you know, the last Saturday in May. And they come out and we got, we got, I mean we'll have demolition machines tearing up cars and got dozers and kids get to run Mini X's. And honestly every year I'm blown away. And so we grill out. Obviously it's Nashville so we got live music going on so we'll have, it's all free to everybody and. But I'm so impressed. I mean I've seen these little four year old kids running like a little 301 mini excavator and, and they're just killing it. I mean they're grabbing them. They'll grab a basketball and dump it in the trash can and it's impressive. Really impressive.
- [104:35]
A
Yeah. How many. I mean you have a lot of machines there. It's not like.
- [104:39]
B
Yeah, we have 1.5.
- [104:40]
A
It's.
- [104:41]
B
We had, we had roughly 30 units this year. I think it was a lot.
- [104:45]
A
It was a lot.
- [104:46]
B
So some static, but I think we had 20. No, we had around 15 stations and it was around 15 static machines.
- [104:53]
A
And it's your Machines. Thompson.
- [104:56]
B
Yep. So we, so. Yep. So early in the early stages when I was growing and you know, there were machines that we didn't own and whatnot. And so we kind of teamed up with Thompson and Cat and they've always been a great partner to ours, to us on this event. And Roger's group here locally provide some aggregate and Pine Bluff for the sand. We do a massive sandbox for the kids. Kids. It's, it's crazy. I had some, some, some, some little kids that came and, and my, my future brother in law was like, wow. We drove nine hours for the kids to just play in the sandbox, you know.
- [105:32]
A
Yeah.
- [105:33]
B
But you know, kids just love a sandbox bouncy house and it's just a good time. I mean, and that's the whole thing just bringing awareness because construction has a stigma that, you know, it's super blue collar that there's not a lot of money to be made. And the truth is that there is a lot of money to be made. It is a great career to get in. There's a lot of opportunity and it's something that's not going to change. I mean you can be a very, very successful person in the construction world and there's a lot of opportunity for growth. There's just the knowledge, just the, the education that you get. And so I just look at this as saying if this is my one thing. So I get little demo plus vests and little hard hats for the kids. And so it's just, I get messages all the time. People just love it. And the kids are, they see our equipment going through town, they see our branding, they know it's our machine. And I think that's what, that's great. I mean it's, there's not a better feeling in the world.
- [106:33]
A
Is it a big money maker for you?
- [106:35]
B
It costs a lot. It's the best thing that I can ever give back. And I look at it as, I'm not the biggest sports guy and I don't get a lot of time to go take out clients and whatnot. And this is my one big event a year that I love to give back to the community, to our partners, to the people that really have helped contribute to our year of success as well as our employees and just, you know, get, I mean, kids love it. So it's really cool.
- [107:06]
A
And I, when people talk about inspiring the next generation, like, I almost think it's as simple as that. Yeah, just get a kid in a bulldozer, like we're overthinking this.
- [107:18]
B
I got kids. I mean, this, this literally a couple weeks ago, I mean, they're already talking about, like, can we go back? Like, they. I mean, I had kids. I had people, general contractors that have. Have called us and said that their kid wants to know if they can have their birthday party at. At our yard. Sure. Unfortunately, we don't have that set up every day.
- [107:36]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [107:37]
B
But, you know, for a special occasion, I'm like, well, maybe we can make this happen.
- [107:41]
A
Yeah. You know, I mean, you get like 30 minute birthday slots for, for a weekend.
- [107:45]
B
Yeah. But it is cool. I mean, and you are seeing people out there in the industry, like, you're seeing this more and more. Right. If you look across the nation, Right. They do a day of the dozer up north. They do it all over. And other people put on their own events.
- [107:59]
A
You know, I think there's another big one here. Maybe August. Yeah. With Nuka Nanooka.
- [108:04]
B
Yep. Yep. And. And so lots of people put it on. At the end of the day, that's what it's about. The more awareness you bring to the industry. That's what it's about. It isn't about the name of what it's called or whatever it is. It's about bringing awareness to construction. You know, it's no different than, than Touch a Truck or, you know, we've done some Touch A Truck events and honestly, Touch of Trucks are really tough. I'll tell you what, if you ever want to. If you ever want to never think about not having kids, go to a Touch of Truck and where everybody just honks horns all day for like six hours straight. It's. But at the end of the day, kids are loving it. And that's what it's about.
- [108:40]
A
Right?
- [108:40]
B
You're doing it for the kids. Yeah. So. But it's cool. It was a. It's a good event. We look forward to it every year.
- [108:47]
A
Year. I will make it one year. I just, I. I want to be there as badly as you need to want to be there.
- [108:53]
B
You need to.
- [108:54]
A
I know it's painful.
- [108:55]
B
You need to wreck a car or two.
- [108:57]
A
I know you send me the. Yeah. You send me the dates and I'm like, damn it again. But hopefully this next year's, I think, May 31st.
- [109:05]
B
This year.
- [109:05]
A
May 31st. All right.
- [109:06]
B
Yep.
- [109:08]
A
Well, I appreciate you coming by.
- [109:11]
B
Yeah.
- [109:12]
A
Appreciate all that you guys are doing. And hopefully we can get out to a site one of these days.
- [109:18]
B
Yeah. We need to make it happen the.
- [109:19]
A
Right side of the fence. I've been on the outside, but maybe on the inside one of these days.
- [109:23]
B
Yes.
- [109:24]
A
Sweet.
- [109:25]
B
All right. Well, we always. We always appreciate all that, you guys. That build wit does, you know, just like being advocates in the dirt world. Yeah. I mean, it's always. It's a lot of people love it. We love it.
- [109:38]
A
So, yeah, it's. I mean, we're just. Just. We're doing our part like you're doing your part, and if everybody does their part, we'll be fine.
- [109:44]
B
It's fun. There's nothing better. So we're. We're definitely. There's nothing better than seeing a good, good job site or even just seeing other job site. Just see how other people do. Build this world, you know, so.
- [109:58]
A
Well, Tyler, thank you.
- [110:00]
B
Appreciate.