Why Construction Is Losing the Next Generation - Fred Mills (DT 448)

Summary

Dirt Talk by BuildWitt

Episode 448: Why Construction Is Losing the Next Generation – with Fred Mills (B1M)
Air Date: June 4, 2026
Host: Aaron Witt (A)
Guest: Fred Mills, Founder of B1M (B)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Dirt Talk brings together Aaron Witt and Fred Mills—two construction storytellers whose online efforts have shifted public perception of the industry. The conversation focuses on why construction is losing the next generation, the challenges with mental health, the disconnect between construction’s actual impact and its public image, and what both men have learned through their industry-defining media journeys. Fred discusses his origin story, the making of the B1M, the release of his new book "Mega Builds," and the deeper, system-level issues influencing construction's talent and culture crisis.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Fred Mills’ Origins and Breaking Away from Tradition

• Fred’s family legacy was in waste recycling, but he forged his own path into construction after early love for building things (01:30-03:03).
• The stigma attached to construction as a “dead end” career, even for professionals, and his realization of the industry’s societal importance.

  “The disconnect between how people saw construction and what it actually does just became starker than ever.” — Fred (03:22)

• Making DIY construction tech YouTube videos in 2012–2015, finding initial traction by explaining complex subjects simply (04:35-05:26).

2. Building B1M from the Ground Up

• Fred quit his job in 2015 (just as his son was born) to focus fully on B1M—a risky leap that he managed thanks to his wife’s unwavering support (07:17-09:47).

  “My wife loves the story. My wife is asleep in the hospital bed… I’m sitting there in the room, they’re both asleep. I’m like, great. Jumped on the laptop, was sorting out getting the website going live because we had a new website going live that morning.” — Fred (08:30)

• The difficulty of delegating as a perfectionist, with the first hire in 2017, then major growth through assembling a team (10:28-12:01).
• Hitting B1M’s first million-view video (2018) and exponential growth after the pandemic (12:01-13:17).

3. Travel, Serendipity, and the Power of Storytelling

• Aaron and Fred share stories of international travel, the sometimes-glamorous, often-exhausting reality, and their most unforgettable site visits (13:13-23:14).
• Memorable Moment: Aaron’s unplanned attendance at the Pope’s funeral in Vatican City while in running clothes (15:14-18:57).

  “I think this is the viewing of the Pope. Five minutes later, I was standing a meter from the Pope in my running clothes.” — Aaron (18:24)

• The “small world” effect of building a global audience, where strangers recognize them in unexpected places (94:25-95:39).

4. What Makes a Construction Project Exciting

• Fred is most inspired by projects with the potential to better humanity, not just commercial ventures. The ITER nuclear fusion reactor (France) is a favorite example:

  “They’re building our sun, a new star here on Earth in a chamber contained by the construction industry.” — Fred (23:27-24:18)

• Aaron and Fred reflect on mind-blowing infrastructure unseen by the public (Hyundai’s shipyard, copper smelters), and the foundational role such projects play globally (27:53-29:47).

5. The Missing Story—and Its Cost to the Next Generation

• Both criticize the construction industry's lack of compelling, genuine storytelling:

  “You are sitting on a content gold mine here… And you’ve got like one or two posts a year on Facebook. I’m like, come on. Just give it to me.” — Fred (33:33)

• Legacy marketing focuses on print journalists, neglecting new media despite YouTube's far greater reach (34:01-35:19).
• Insights on authenticity, fighting AI-driven content, and why having a real, recognizable voice matters now more than ever (31:49-32:35).

6. Politics, Procurement, Systemic Barriers

• Bureaucracy and politics are fundamental hurdles: the "death by a thousand cuts" that plagues long-term, big-ticket projects in the US/UK (36:34-38:18).
• Using the example of HS2 and U.S. high-speed rail, Fred and Aaron stress how four-year political cycles clash with the decades-long nature of infrastructure (37:45-38:18).
• Cautiously addressing political or controversial subjects in project coverage—walking the line to avoid losing access, but not ignoring accountability (38:18-41:53).

7. Big Audience = Responsibility

• With audience power comes the risk of manipulation by politicians, large corporations, and international entities (41:24-43:14).
• Both have made a point of prioritizing integrity—even if it means walking away from lucrative (but controlling) clients (43:02-44:14).

8. Mental Health in Construction: Not a ‘People’ Problem—a Systems Problem

• The construction industry, through its culture, procurement, and systemic practices, makes it uniquely hard on people, not the other way around (46:45-49:45).

  “There is nothing wrong with people in construction. We have amazing people in this industry. What we've done is put them into a set of conditions where it's little wonder their mental health struggles.” — Fred (48:16)

• Payment delays, job insecurity, and dehumanizing rules drive much of the crisis. Fred speaks about negotiating fairer terms, being assertive about payment (49:45-50:07).
• Swearing, camaraderie, and sharing hard work are part of construction culture—sterilizing environments can be counterproductive to well-being (51:05-52:47).

9. Attracting and Retaining the Next Generation

• “If we want better talent, we have to tell a better story.”
• The retention problem is as urgent as the recruitment problem; even those interested in construction leave after confronting outdated, frustrating site culture (52:47-53:56).
• In developed economies, the skills crisis is acute; automation/AI cannot close the looming labor gap (61:17).

10. Comparing Construction Globally: What’s Broken?

• U.S. and U.K. infrastructure projects suffer from cost, delay, and red tape.
• Other places—Spain, India, China—are able to deliver quickly and affordably, but with caveats around labor standards and political systems (54:43-60:43).
• The U.S. Infrastructure Act ($1.2T) only a fraction of the real need; much of the money may not directly reach “bricks and mortar” (62:51-66:25).

11. The Universal Human Element

• Whether working in the U.S., India, or the Middle East, the fundamental needs and motivations of people are strikingly similar.

  “People are just people.” — Aaron (79:03)

• Fred emphasizes the unique positive role construction can play in reshaping countries and economies:

  “Investing in infrastructure projects is an incredible vehicle for nudging the direction of your country in a different, better direction.” (71:48)

12. Mental Health: The Power of Personal Story and Actionable Advice

• Fred’s own struggles, the importance of leaders “walking the walk,” and why tick-the-box approaches are not enough (74:31-78:45).

  “When I opened up and started talking about it, there was a huge amount of acceptance, which was an incredible huge sense of relief… there’s a lot of people saying, thanks for doing that, because I feel the same way.” (77:57-78:45)

• Actionable steps for companies: build cultures where discussion and support are normalized—not just on ‘World Mental Health Day.’ (73:47-74:31)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• The Early Days of B1M:

  “I remember one day… my phone was just… flashing all day. And the views had gone crazy for me. Like, I got a thousand views in a day. At the time I was like, I am famous.” — Fred (05:27)

• Perspective on Mega Projects:

  “For me, the stuff where it really connects and gets goosebumps on my skin is when it is changing the world for the better…” — Fred (26:16)

• On the Power of Storytelling:

  “For the first time we've lifted the curtain on this stuff and shown the world what's happening, how it's built, and why it matters.” — Fred (29:52)

• On Authenticity in Media:

  “Being genuine and authentic and yourself and just talking about something you are passionate about cuts through so much more… because of this polarizing, fake AI-driven content world we're kind of living in now.” — Fred (31:49)

• Politics and Infrastructure:

  “Big infrastructure projects demand normally minimum a decade commitment. And... what we need is the money on the table, the commitment… and then to be left alone for 10 years to go and make it happen.” — Fred (36:49)

• Mental Health:

  “What we've done is put [people] into a set of conditions where it's little wonder their mental health struggles.” — Fred (48:16)

• Universal Lessons From Global Travel:

  “The most incredible thing is how similar I am… to pick your person on the side of the road in Zambia… Identical in so many ways.” — Aaron (79:37)

• The Importance and Purpose of Construction:

  “Construction is the best industry in the world… If we got all that stuff sorted, not just… in the construction industry… our tax dollars would go further. You know, it's conversations like this, I think, that really help highlight to people why it matters to your life sitting at home.” — Fred (70:34-71:18)

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Key Timestamps

• [01:30-06:56] – Fred’s background, family, early construction career, and B1M’s humble beginnings
• [07:16-12:01] – Quitting his job; risks, early growth, assembling a team
• [13:13-19:00] – Travel, international recognition, and the Pope’s funeral serendipity
• [23:27-27:53] – Projects that inspire, from nuclear fusion to world-shaping infrastructure
• [33:32-36:49] – Construction storytelling’s failures and opportunities
• [36:49-41:53] – Politics, project delivery challenges, and journalistic neutrality
• [45:45-52:47] – Culture, mental health, rigid systems, and ‘burnout architecture’
• [52:47-61:17] – Skills crises, AI, attracting/retaining the next generation
• [62:51-66:25] – Where does the U.S. infrastructure money actually go?
• [73:47-78:45] – Mental health: real change, personal story, tangible steps
• [79:03-82:20] – Universality of human experience in construction
• [84:05-88:29] – Writing the book, creative process, British vs. American attitudes toward success
• [103:33-110:32] – Fitness, mental resilience, and making wellness non-negotiable
• [110:58-113:43] – Hopes for the book, contemporary construction literature, and where to find "Mega Builds"

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Final Thoughts

This free-flowing episode reveals why construction is missing out on the next generation—as much due to system-level issues and failures in storytelling as to broader cultural and economic tides. Fred Mills offers hope that with better stories, deeper attention to human needs (including mental health), and more transparency, the industry can reclaim its future. Both he and Aaron Witt stand as evidence that authentic voices and relentless effort can change how the world sees construction.

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Where to Find Fred Mills & B1M

• YouTube: The B1M
• Book: Mega Builds (Available in the UK May 21, 2026; U.S. release August 2026. Backstory Books for signed copies; major retail chains in both countries.)

Closing Note:

“The work you do and the work we do is so important because it helps people understand construction. And when they understand construction, they value it. And when they value it, everything changes.” — Fred Mills (73:03)

Transcript

[A]

This episode of the Dirt Talk podcast is with Fred Mills, who's the founder of the B1M, the world's largest YouTube channel dedicated to construction and infrastructure. He's also a construction media pioneer and author of the new book Mega Builds. He quit his job in construction the same week his son was born to build a media company no one believed in, editing videos in the hospital while his wife slept after giving birth. He reveals why the construction industry's mental health crisis isn't people problem, it's a systems problem. And why the stories being left untold about the world's greatest projects are costing the industry an entire generation of talent. If you haven't seen Fred's videos on YouTube or the B1M content in general online, you have been under a rock. I have seen his videos for years now. I really admire what he's built. He's one of the few people in the world that can relate to what we're doing here from a media standpoint better than just about anybody. And when he said he was going to be in Nashville, I was like, boy, I am excited to sit down and talk with this guy. First time we spent time together, but certainly not the last. So with that, here's the episode with Fred mills of the B1M. What was your job before all of this?

[B]

See, I used to work in construction. Started out working for a general contractor. So kind of like I followed construction through school. I always loved building things. I loved playing with lego, building pillow forts, building dens in my backyard. I kind of loved construction before I really knew it was called construction.

[A]

Were your parents in it at all?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. What'd your dad do?

[B]

My dad runs his own, like, waste recycling company. Very successful, like skips and waste transfer stations.

[A]

And very cool.

[B]

That's what his dad did. So there was this kind of expectation on me to either be entrepreneurial or do the same thing. So I'm kind of the first in a bit of a line, my family to do something different.

[A]

It's a family business.

[B]

It was a family business, yeah. I'm not in it. I've taken my own path, sure, but been successful outside of my dad's. My dad's amazing because quite a big shadow. I've built my own empire outside of his.

[A]

So I don't. I mean, you know how this world is, at least in the States especially. It's very family business oriented. I don't envy anybody that comes up in a family business. I've seen it too many times. It works out sometimes, but it is so hard to be your own individual. Like growing up under a father that's built something significant. Oh man, that's a delicate line and I've seen a few do it really well, but I've seen it go horribly wrong so many times over.

[B]

I'm always closer to my dad now for not having gone the same way as him. Like I used to go to work with him on Saturday mornings and that's where I really, I guess I think got the bug for wanting to run my own business and do my own thing.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And yeah, I've got massive respect for him, what he's built, but we almost like respect each other more because we've built our own thing and we must know each other better because of that. It's got very deep very quickly. But that's kind of runs issues with my father.

[A]

Yeah, well if you want to talk issues with your father, I could fill a few hours.

[B]

This is good therapy. Hadn't really realized that, but yeah, that's where, that's where it all started out. So yeah, loved building stuff at school, came through it, pursued it, did design technology class that kind of stuff. Went on to study architectural engineering and design management at uni, graduated, joined the industry. And then my friends and family were like, what are you doing? This is a dead end career. Because my people I'd been to school with who also went to university, were then going on to be like working in banks and finance and law and doctors and the proper jobs and they're like, oh, you've gone to, you've gone to lay bricks on a construction site? No, no, I was working with a, with a design team. It's a team of architects, engineers, specialists. We were on the, the pre construction team that was literally shaping how a set of schools, about £150 million worth of schools was going to be developed and built in South London. Literally shaping how thousands of kids are going to get their start in life. And for me, the kind of the disconnect between how people saw construction and what it actually does just became starker than ever. So yeah, I started to change that. Started making some videos myself. Pop up on YouTube. They were self made, self edited, absolutely terrible.

[A]

What were the videos about in the early days?

[B]

A few different things really. So I did some stuff around like building information, modeling, construction tech, explaining construction tech terms.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And they kind of ranked quite highly because suddenly people had a way of getting clear, straightforward information about complex technology subjects in construction and they quite liked them. So they'd always kind of come up quite well, in those days they'd rank quite highly in the kind of the Google search results for certain topics. So that's kind of. That kind of helped me get a big footing. And I remember one day I created this video against just in a park in London. But it was me talking about my kind of vision for the industry and where I want to see construction going. And it was very kind of just passionate, off the cuff. And I remember I uploaded on a Friday morning and then I was driving up the country for something, but my phone was just like in the. In the bit of the dashboard in the car and it was just flashing all day.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And the views just had gone crazy for me. Like, I got a thousand views in a day. At the time I was like, I am famous. This is. This is huge. Whereas now we get that, you know, on the. On the bloody refresh. So it's pretty crazy stuff. But at the time, I almost get more of a buzz from those early days than I do now in some ways because you kind of get a bit immune to the numbers, I find.

[A]

I've even noticed that with the business and money, honestly, like a big deal even a few weeks ago came through and even a year or two ago would have been like, holy smokes. And it was more than we did in the first year of business. I mean, far more. And I kind of just looked at it. I'm like, okay. And then I put my phone down, go back to work.

[B]

Yeah. And.

[A]

And then my brain kind of came back to it. Later in that day. I was like, should I be this nonchalant about it? Like, is this, is this the game? I. It's weird about it.

[B]

You fight so hard to get to that place where the business is not in an existential position, where it's going to survive month to month, where it can. Where you carve out a job for yourself that didn't exist, where you can pay yourself and your family, you know, a salary and the means to live and employ people. And then you get to the point where it's all working, like, normally organically, just money coming in, audience growing, team growing, everyone's happy. And you'd like, oh, yeah, it's just, I did it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, here I am. Yeah, yeah. You're looking around and you thought it'd

[B]

be a bit different. And it's like, oh, no, this is. This is cool.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And so you, you said before this, you said you. You were doing videos while working full time. Yeah, for a few years.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you started. You Quit your job in 2015?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How? Like, what was it?

[B]

So that was. That was hard. I. I wanted to have my own company. I wanted it to take off. I was pushing every evening and weekend to make that happen between 2012 and 2015, like burning the candle at every end and in the middle. I was married, but didn't have any kids yet. So I knew that once kids came along, it was going to be harder for me to take the risk. And I wanted to. I wanted to do this when I was younger. I take the risk when I was younger, before I got too old and set in my ways. So I was like 23, 24 around that time.

[A]

How old are you now?

[B]

I'm 40 this year.

[A]

Okay. Okay. Okay.

[B]

Which is. Yeah, I'm very proud of how much I've achieved at this age, which is great.

[A]

Well, good. That means you did it right. Because there's a lot of people that go into 30 and 40 and realize they're like, I can't believe it. I'm like, I don't know, maybe you should have done a little bit more with your years.

[B]

Yeah, sorry. So, yeah, came through. Sorry, I've lost my track. I have to cut this bit out.

[A]

No, you're fine.

[B]

No, yeah. So I got to the point in 2015 where I could go full time. Stepped out of it the same week my son was born.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So the website. I remember the website was going on. My wife loves the story. My wife is asleep in the hospital bed. She gave birth last night. I managed to get my son, my newborn son asleep. And I'm sort of sitting there in the room. They're both asleep. I'm like, great. Jumped on the laptop, was sorting out, getting the website going live because we had a new website going live that morning.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Madness.

[A]

That was a madness. What was the conversation with your wife like from a timing perspective?

[B]

She. She's. Joe, she's incredible. She's actually my kind of closest advisor and ally and supporter and also critic, which has been priceless the whole way through. So we got married 2011, and I started doing this 2012. So she didn't know what she was signing up for when she took the vows, but she's in it now. And genuinely, we've built it together. She has guided me, enabled me, had the kids for me while I worked evenings and wrote a book. And we really have collaborated and, yeah, worked together to make this happen. So she's an unsung hero. She hates the Internet, never wants to be online. She'll hate. I'M talking about her right now. But yeah, she's been a massive part of making it happen. So, yeah, she has forgiven me just about for putting a website live on the morning our son was born when.

[A]

I'm glad I haven't crossed that bridge yet, but I'm sure I'll have a similar story one day. Um, but honestly, that's what I tell people, that's why I work so much right now is because I don't have a family yet and I know it's going to change significantly and so I don't want to take the free time I have right now for granted.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'm just. And when somebody says like, oh, you need, you know, slow down this. And I'm like, that's terrible advice. I'm going to go even harder because right now I like, I can just go. I can burn the candle at both ends.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so why not to me? Like, why wouldn't I be working as much as I am?

[B]

Yeah. I still, I still burn the candle both ends. I have to just plan when I'm burning it.

[A]

Sure, sure, sure.

[B]

Which is just part of the game, I guess.

[A]

Yeah. When did you. So you got on your own? When did you hire somebody?

[B]

That was terrifying. First hire, I hired a video editor to work with me 2017. So I was on my own for a couple of years.

[A]

So you did it? Yeah, a few years.

[B]

I know I'm a control freak kind of perfectionist, so letting stuff go is really hard for me. Delegating is really hard for me. I. I've got way better at that. And the B1M is only where it is now because I did that. I still, I still am across quite a lot of stuff. I still like to have my, my head in things, but I've got a lot better at letting go see it. Hired a video editor. That was huge for me because suddenly the video editing was done by someone else and I could write more, better quality videos, basically. And then we hired a writer and then from there it's just kind of basically grown and grown. We hired. Yeah, we had a sales guy, Liam. Liam Marsh, my kind of deputy guy who's more or less built the business with me, is now our chief revenue officer. He's based in our Sydney team. But yeah, hiring Liam was transformational. He likes to tell the story that it was all going badly. Then he joined and it all took off. So shout out to Liam if he's listening. But yeah, those, those hires are what really blew it up. And then 2018 we had our first million view video. Up to then, we'd had sort of videos that were doing 100,000 views a week. And that was. I was like, wow, this is, this is big time. This is massive. I'm famous. And then I remember we put one up in August 2018 and it got a million. We put out on the Wednesday, had a million views by Sunday.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And I was like, okay, this is. And then from there. 2019 was a big year. We were going into 2020 with like loads of physical events planned. It was a. Loads of travel books. Obviously 2020 was a different year than many people anticipated, but that made us so much stronger, 2020 because we became, well, we became really good at making videos remotely, bringing our costs down. The audience exploded. And I remember my first trip out after Covid was New York. November 2021 was actually the day after the US opened travel from Europe. In November 2021 came to New York and it was amazing because New York was kind of still quiet. So you could see New York without being, you know, overwhelmed with the business. I was walking down the street and everybody was stopping to talk to me. That is great. People in coffee shop. I was like, I'd never had that before.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

It's like I'd left my house after 18 months of lockdown and then was just met with people who'd been watching me online at home. And it was. And then, yeah. I think from early 2000s onwards, it's just been a. It's been hard, but it's been a really kind of upward curve to the point where 24, 25, 26 have been record breaking for us. I have to pinch myself. It's amazing.

[A]

And you've traveled a lot along the way?

[B]

Yeah. Too much. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

How's it, how's the travel for you? Do you enjoy it?

[B]

Yeah, I do. I get to see the world, which I like.

[A]

Yeah. Had you seen the world much before?

[B]

A bit, but not like, not to the extent that I would doing this.

[A]

I guess it's a little bit different for somebody in Europe than it is in the States. Like most people in America don't get out much like growing up. I think by the time I graduated university, I had been to maybe five countries. So I didn't. I traveled a ton in the U.S. i think that's what we like to do because even in Europe, like Europeans travel in Europe for the most part for summer vacation, holiday, so on and so forth. We, we, we do the same thing, but it's all in the Same country. Cause the place is so damn big. Um, but yeah, I'd only been to, like, five different countries. One of them was Mexico. One of them was Canada. One of them was the Bahamas. One of them was Costa Rica. And then I. The furthest I'd been was Peru when I was 22 years old. So I just hadn't really seen the world at all.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When I was an adult, I don't

[B]

know if by EB you find the. The kind of glamour and the buzz of it kind of wear off, and it gets more like a mission now.

[A]

Exactly where you have to go, like, 100%.

[B]

Okay, I'm going to New York for five days. I'm coming back again. I can't be too jet lags. I've got this, this, this when I land. So I need to be sensible about where I'm sleeping, what I'm eating, what I'm drinking. When I'm training, Like, all that's got to be factored in. So it's good. Like, I get to see the world. I love it. Often we're there to do quite a lot of work and keep a business running back at base in London. So, yeah, there's a. There's a lot that goes with it, but I'm kind of mastering that now, which is cool. And I've done. I think we're sitting here early May 2026. I've been to eight countries so far. Eight different countries so far this year across 12 trips. One of those was Vatican City, I should say.

[A]

Oh, okay. All right. Well, that still counts. Yeah, I've been to that country, too.

[B]

I'm counting it.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I. So we were there. It was my first time in Italy, in Rome.

[B]

Were you at the Pope's funeral?

[A]

Yeah, I was at the Pope's funeral, yes.

[B]

Tell me, how did this happen?

[A]

I didn't. So we were coincidentally in Rome a few days after the Pope had passed. And I saw on the Internet, I was like, well, maybe I'll go to the. I wanted. I just wanted to go to the Vatican so I could say I'd been to the Vatican. Honestly, I just wanted to see it. But then I was looking on the Internet, I was like, oh, man. Like, it's gonna be closed. And then I saw the lines and the reporters. Like, the lines, like, seven hours long, this and that. So I'm like, man, I don't think I'm gonna be able to go to the Vatican. I think the whole place is shut up. And I ran there one morning, the whole place was shut. So I was like, ah. And we went out and we saw a job site that morning that came back in the afternoon. We had the afternoon free. Beautiful day. So I was like, I'll go to another run and I'll just, I'll run down there and I'll just kind of see. And so I kind of, I run, I run down to kind of where the Vatican is, and I just get in like the sea of people, kind of like the, you know, just the salmon following the other salmon. And we start. You kind of see the Vatican way, way, way down there. And we go through one security checkpoint. And I'm kind of getting closer and closer. I'm like, okay. Like, I can kind of at least see it.

[B]

You in your running gear?

[A]

I'm in my running. My running clothes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Like short shorts, tennis shoes, and like a Boston Marathon shirt. And so I kind of get to the outside of the Vatican and I'm like, well, all these people are going in. I think I can get in. And so I, I wait a little bit and I go through like another security checkpoint. And then I walk in. And I'm in. It's St. Peter's Square, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. So then I walk in and I'm standing in St. Peter's Square, and I'm like, I can't believe I'm here. This is incredible. And so I look across the square, and in the middle, they're setting up for the proper funeral. So it's all blocked off, but there's like a line of people kind of moving around on the other side. And I'm like, I might be able to go inside. And so I get in the line and I kind of stand there and 20 minutes later, I'm walking into the basilica. And you were just. Was it your first time being.

[B]

No, I've been loads of times. I was there in January.

[A]

Yeah, but walking into the basilica. Yeah, it's. I've been in very few buildings or seen very few things that just take your breath away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you're just like a five year

[B]

old favorite building in the world. It's because when you walk in, you just. It's designed to humble you.

[A]

Oh, my.

[B]

And make you feel like you're in the presence of God.

[A]

And when you walk in, you just go, whoa. Yes.

[B]

But to do it during the Pope's funeral with every world leader there, but

[A]

I don't know that's where I'm going. And so I get in the basilica and I'm just like, wow. And the line is kind of continuing to move into the Basilica and about halfway to the front, I realize, I think this is the viewing of the Pope. Like, I, I think, I think I'm in line to see the Pope and five minutes later, I was standing a meter from the Pope in my running clothes.

[B]

Because they say you're supposed to be like, very respectfully dressed. Long sleeves. Yes, I.

[A]

But no one said anything. I didn't know where I was going. Like, I, I quite. And people are probably like, you're just playing dumb. I'm like, I swear it was a total accident. And. And then I saw him. And then I kind of. They're kind of ushering you along. But I just, I went to an area where I could stand and I just, I stood there for probably 15 minutes. Like, I cannot believe this just happened.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

It was so.

[B]

Your Strava from that run must have been like, pretty, pretty wild, right?

[A]

I wonder what I put. Yeah, I wonder what.

[B]

I think.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, that's a great. That is, I think, the best Pope story I've heard.

[A]

But that. The as Pope story. It would have never.

[B]

But the.

[A]

It's like. I'm sure you have. Not that experience, but all these weird experiences.

[B]

I haven't accidentally walked into world leaders funeral. No, that is.

[A]

But you probably have something that's like, this would have never happened had I not started making videos and traveled the

[B]

world, you know, Definitely. I mean, I think one of the. And I write about this in my, in my book. Sorry, that wasn't meant. I wasn't trying to flog the book.

[A]

Yeah, we'll talk.

[B]

Accidentally said that you're just. Coincidentally just came out.

[A]

But you're. I mean, you're not even here to promote the book. Technically. You're just coincidentally here. We'll talk about the book.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Couldn't. Couldn't come to Nashville without seeing you, mate. So I was filming. We've done loads of stuff now. We've been in all kinds of places, but I remember we were filming on top of Medeka 118, which is the world's second tallest building in Malaysia. We spent a year negotiating access. You have to go through the. The property owners who are kind of tied into the Malaysian royal family. You have to go. We had to go through the Civil Aviation Authority because we wanted to fly two drones. We hired a local drone team. There were security checks, background checks, all of it. Anyway, we get to the point where we finally get ourselves negotiated up on top of this enormous building. And when you're on Top of it, you're looking down at the Patronus Towers, which used to be the world's tallest building. They are down below you. It's wild. I thought there'd be a breeze. There was bugger. Or breeze. Like, it was. It was 100. Humidity, I think 43 degrees Celsius. I don't know. The Fahrenheit.

[A]

Yeah, no, that's. It's really hot.

[B]

It was hot. Yeah. And then they. Obviously, you've got the. Downstairs, the building's kind of being finished, so down in the air conditioning, they put you in the. The harnessing and the hard hats and the PPE and the. The kit and the, you know, the denim jeans and you're fine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you come out onto the roof in the blazing Malaysian sun and the humidity. It was absolutely wild. I was melting. We actually had to kind of like express the shoot because everyone was struggling with the heat. But there was a moment where I was stood on top of that building. I've got two drones buzzing around my head in closed airspace for us. I've got my producer stood underneath me, feeding lines to me. I've got my other videographer on the other side of the roof coordinating with the drone team. And that's right. I was between takes and they were faffing around with something. I just went, this is crazy. I made this happen.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

That little post it note I wrote my idea down on all those years ago has led to this moment.

[A]

That's the. It's like, yeah, I kicked this little snowball down the hill.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And here we are. And people ask all the time, like, are you surprised? And I'm like, I'm not. Because I've worked. I know the effort I've put in. Yeah. But I am completely on the other side. That is like, I would have never called this.

[B]

No. Unless you're like me. You have your head down and you're pushing and pushing and pushing. You're working so hard to try and get it to be what you want to be, to be your vision, that it's only when you have those moments where you lift your head up and you look back and you go, oh, yeah, look at where we are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or you have one of those moments, like at the Pope's funeral, I imagine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where you're just like, oh, this is wild.

[A]

Well, there was a. This year I was. We went to a diamond mine up in northern Canada and the whole experience was extraordinary. But we got to go see the diamonds. So we got to go to their diamond splitting facility. Wow. And my mouth is just wide open the entire time because they take us to this table and there must be, I don't know, like a hundred thousand carats of diamonds sitting on this table. And I don't even know what it's worth or anything like that. And I'm standing there and I'm like, can I hold. Hold a bag of diamonds? I'm like, yeah, sure. So I'm holding a bag of 11,000 carats of diamonds and I'm talking to the guy who's like the diamond guy, he leads the facility. And I'm like, you have such a weird job. Like, this is. You come here every day and you, you work here. This is crazy. And he's like, well, you do too. And I look down, holding the bag of diamonds.

[B]

I'm like, good point.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I guess so, yeah. What, what, what, like, what are your favorite kind of projects? What really gets you going?

[B]

For me, it's the ones that are changing the world for the better. So, I mean, that's a very broad statement, but the kind of like a commercial skyscraper or a commercial housing project or a luxury apartment block somewhere doesn't really do it for me. Sure, a metro line that's going to connect a city and boost an economy is better, but for me, the ones that are going to literally fundamentally change this planet are where I get goosebumps and get really excited. So I talk about a lot, but the nuclear fusion reactor they're building over in France is just wild because what we're talking about there is unlocking limitless clean energy, the end of fossil fuels. These guys are building. They're building our sun, a new star here on Earth in a chamber contained by the construction industry.

[A]

What's the approval process to get in somewhere like that?

[B]

It's difficult, I bet. I'm actually really good mates now with the communications team, which has helped enormously, I should say. Yeah, yeah. Sniffer dogs, security, all background checks, all sorts of stuff. But they're incredibly welcoming and friendly. And that project for me is just, it's just different league in every sense of the word. You've got 35 nations collaborating, collaborating. Different cultures, different contracts, different languages. Everyone's talking in broken English and hand gestures, you know, like it's just an extraordinary undertaking, but it's one of those things that, yeah, isn't, isn't for commercial gain or short term economic gain is to literally change the lives of every single person on this planet. And you feel that when you walk through it, you really do Feel the weight of that kind of ambition around you. It's the only process I've been to where people openly talk about time in denominations of decades, not years. They're like, oh, yeah, by the2030s, we're going to be doing this. I'm like, sorry, you just say. You just talk about something that's happening in a decade's time. Because there's these components they've made from around the world that are so specialist and so carefully engineered that once they're brought to site and welded in to the main reactor they're building, they're basically too complicated and too big to get out again. So they'd have to smash it apart and take, you know, take the whole thing apart. And there's no crane on earth that could lift certain bits of these bits out once they're welded. So for them, making sure that it's right, like properly. Properly right, like checked a thousand times is. Is incredibly important. And for them, it's not like taking a few more years or adding on a decade isn't a problem. Yeah, because they want to get it right. It's crazy stuff.

[A]

Has that always been the uphill or has it evolved over time?

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

The like. Like the purpose behind projects is what gets you going. Now. Has that been an evolution?

[B]

Yeah. So I would say I've always loved construction, I've always loved building things. And don't get me wrong, put me on the roof of a skyscraper, just the feat of engineering is incredible. But for me, the stuff where it really connects and gets goosebumps on my skin is when it is changing the world for the better. And I should say infrastructure projects, I know they're not perhaps as worthy as the ET project I just described, but they're just as impactful. We covered the Northeast corridor last year. In the US that is a railway that something like 20% of US GDP hangs on. And there are tunnels and bridges on that railway railway that are crumbling right now. If they fell over, would cause untold impacts on the US economy. No one sees that or appreciates it. There's teams there working to get it fixed and sorted. Out of sight, out of mind. But their work, their actions, is literally impacting the lives of millions of people. And beyond that, because the northeast of the US is, I think it was a country, it'd be bigger than its economy, be bigger than Germany, so the third biggest economy in the world or something. So what happens there financially tends to impact the rest of the world as well. So, yeah, I had this moment last year where I was in this, filmed in a tunnel in Baltimore at like 2 in the morning because they closed the tunnel for us again. Another wild moment. This was during the polar vortex, so it was properly cold. It's like these ice formations hanging off the wall where drips had frozen. It was like something out of Star Wars Movie. It was crazy. But you're walking through there going, this crumbly little tunnel is all that's holding a huge chunk of the economy together here. And people don't see it.

[A]

Yeah, I. That. That's what hits me over the head a lot of times. Like, we. We toured just for fun. We were coincidentally there, but we toured Hyundai's shipyard in Ulsan earlier this year. And just walk, like, just. Just driving around that place and looking around, it's like, oh, this is how the global economy works. Like seeing LNG carriers get built, container ships get built, they build submarines. Like, all of these ships. And as we now know, because of the whole thing in the Middle east, currently shipping, if that stops, large parts of the whole global economy stop. And so it's just like, the scale is incredible, but it's like, for me, it's, oh, this is how the world works. Or last week I was in a copper smelter and seeing liquid copper, you know, pouring into molds every. Every minute, you know, another anode, another anode, another anode. It's like, whoa, this is how. This is how stuff works. Like, without this, we don't have electricity. And they, like, they talk a lot about EVs and energy transition, this and that, but it's like, hey, guys. But also, it's electricity. It's like lights.

[B]

The fundamentals.

[A]

I get it. It's all future. Exactly.

[B]

We're trying to run. We need to walk.

[A]

It's still pretty foundational to, like, the entirety of humanity. And it just. It starts as, like, it starts as explosives into a hole, shovel, putting it into a truck, but then just this liquid metal pouring out into these molds. That's like, wow, it's so incredible. Yeah, it's so incredible. And no one, no one will ever see it. But that's the cool thing about what we do too, is we get these experiences and then we get to share them. 100 and that is awesome.

[B]

And making it, like, communicating it in a way that it hasn't really been communicated in before.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where you draw that link between cause and effect for people, you actually explains people why this thing that has felt so geeky and abstract to you in the past, Actually is fundamental to the way you live your life. And I think that's been what's made my work and your work so successful, is that for the first time we've lifted the curtain on this stuff and shown the world what's happening, how it's built, and why it matters, you know?

[A]

Yes. Yeah. I think you do a really good job of that. Explaining, like, the why. I think from a story perspective, you guys are, I mean, really buttoned up.

[B]

Oh, sorry to forget that.

[A]

Yeah, really, really buttoned up. Really? Really.

[B]

The feeling's mutual.

[A]

We

[B]

lift each other.

[A]

Yeah. But that's also the fun of it is like you can tell your videos are uniquely you. Like, they're very Fred, you know, it's

[B]

not a good thing.

[A]

No, no, I think it is a good thing. I don't know a lot about you, but I've seen your videos and so I think I can kind of get a grasp of your personality. And that's at least my hope for our stuff as well is I want somebody to meet me and be like,

[B]

oh, yeah, yeah, exactly.

[A]

You know, there's. There's not any.

[B]

The fact you think I have a personality is very complicated now. I see it for your videos, but I think that's. That's a big thing as well. In today's day and age, especially with. Because I was. I was saying to you off air earlier, we have so many channels now trying to be like the B1M or replicate the people literally rip off our stuff and use stuff that our graphics team has spent months making, which is really frustrating. But I think in today's day and age, being genuine and authentic and yourself and just talking about something you are passionate about cuts through so much more. And it shouldn't be the case, but it is the case because of this polarizing, fake AI driven content world we're kind of living in now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When you find someone who is themselves, who is talking from the heart, talking about what they love and why. Why they think it matters, people can't help but be drawn to that.

[A]

I don't think it makes it like. Like anybody now can use AI to make these AI. Oh, we're building the biggest skyscraper in the world. And, you know, and it's probably a ton of your graphics. I bet they're stealing to make it, but it's like it's two dimensional, whereas I feel like you or somebody involved in it, like a consistent personality, it makes it. There's that third dimension to it that allows people to connect with it and makes it human.

[B]

Yeah, 100%.

[A]

And infrastructure ultimately is human infrastructure, when it's done right, serves humanity, furthers humanity.

[B]

You know this from a storytelling, but it can't just be a regurgitation of the facts. You have to take people with you on the journey and present stuff to them in the right way, in the right style so that they get it and grasp it in the same way that you've grasped it. And it's hot. Because sometimes you, you can be scratching around going, where's the story here? How do I make this interesting? Or the people who. And I find this a lot in construction. I think this speaks to how much of a kind of a process orientated industry we are. But often when I visit sites, they're obsessed with little details and bits and bobs and things like this. And they're missing the big fat screaming story at the top of it. And getting to lift a lid on that and bring it to life is incredibly exciting. I think the generally controversial point, but generally the marketing and communications around big infrastructure projects, big construction products worldwide, is pretty terrible. Especially. Especially out of the marketing teams that run it.

[A]

Yeah, I agree.

[B]

Yeah, I'm like, I mean, some places I'm like, yeah, you are sitting on a content gold mine here like this. There's shots everywhere I look. There's stories everywhere I look. And you've got like one or two posts a year on Facebook. And I'm like, come on, just give it to me.

[A]

And then they're like, everybody hates us. Well, it's like, yeah. Cause you're not telling them anything.

[B]

Or they're obsessed with print newspapers and print journalists.

[A]

And journalists.

[B]

And we're like new media. Oh, the YouTube channel. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, come in.

[A]

Yeah, well, I'm sure you're. I've had this. I'm sure you have too. You're invited to like a media day. And it's like, that's the last thing I want. Because it's a dog and pony show. They kind of like take you over here and it's, it's, you know, the cones are here.

[B]

Flat out. Do not do media days.

[A]

I stay so far away from them. Yeah. Because it's like I want to actually see the project.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I actually want to experience it.

[B]

I was invited to 10 Downing street recently in London, which is where the Prime Minister, for those who don't know.

[A]

So I've been to the Pope's funeral. But you've been to the.

[B]

I've been to Downing street down gate. So we're kind of like trading Stories here. I knew where I was going. I wasn't in my running gear but. So there was this new announcement about small modular reactors. It was great to be invited but I realized when I got there that I was the YouTuber influencer they were inviting to make themselves look like they were being progressive and modern. And you have the very prestigious print media, you have the broadcast media. And then I was given a badge that said Fred Mills new media. Really was like, oh yeah, we invited a YouTube channel. Aren't we cool? Aren't we modern? I was like, yeah, this is weird. Yeah, we got more reach than all of you. Yeah.

[A]

It's just.

[B]

Yeah. Say that. We don't say that when you're in Downing Street. I just.

[A]

No.

[B]

Was quiet and drank my tea.

[A]

But, but that, that's the, that's also the, the. That's what makes infrastructure is more complicated than it should be. And it's political, which I hate. It is such a shame that it's political but it's a political football that's kicked back and forth that doesn't serve anybody. And, and so you have. But you have to play with the political process to even, even the like. I can imagine some of the politics that you have to play into for these. Access of, for some of these projects. It's, it's. That's like once I get to site, that's the Easy 100. It's, it's a kick through the door. Right. Yeah. Just getting there. It's 6, 912 months of 173 emails and meetings and calls and forms and it's. But then, yeah, politicians are involved too and, and then they want to be selling infrastructure in their way to probably make them look better in other ways. And it's like from the outside perspective it's interesting to watch all of this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like to kind of see it all because you don't really have a horse in the race but then you're seeing it much closer than the average person would. And for me it's like, oh, this is really interesting. All the politics and I think big

[B]

infrastructure projects demand normally minimum a decade commitment. And for the construction industry what we need is the money on the table, the commitment for it to happen and then to be Left alone for 10 years to go and make it happen as per the brief, as per the budget. Supply chain's got visibility, we know what's happening. The problem is the UK and the US tends to work in four year political cycles or even shorter economic cycles. So we have different leaders and Politicians coming in and going, I'm going to cut this, I'm going to extend this. We're going to go to this place, we're going to go to that place, we're going to change the budget, the budget's over budget, we're going to cancel everything. We're going to stop project. And what you get is a mishmash of like just death by a thousand cuts. These projects where they're pulled about and then it's little wonder for me that they are over budget and late because they've just been meddled with. Best example for that in the UK is HS2, this new high speed rail line.

[A]

I've heard about HS2. Yeah, well you have, we have ours.

[B]

I know you realize but you know that's just an example of where we needed the government to say we're building this from London to Manchester, here's X billion, go make it happen. Instead it's been the start point's been moved, the end points been moved, legs have been canceled, land's been bought and then not used. 800 year old oak trees that Henry VIII had a nap under have been demolished. You know, just. Yeah. Wild.

[A]

How do you, do you ever have to consider like making people mad politically about some things? Do you? Like, because I've had to think about that too. I'm like if I wade into these waters there's a good chance I probably can't go to this country again.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Have you had to just think about that kind of stuff?

[B]

Yeah, definitely. So we, I, we steer clear of politics. I am politically neutral, at least publicly speaking. Obviously politics affects everyone's lives but I'm publicly politically neutral. We don't go into politics at all.

[A]

Yeah but I mean like if you cover a project.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's a cluster.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like which you.

[B]

But you did. We covered HS2.

[A]

Well, you. Okay, okay.

[B]

And I had both sides angry at me, which for me is a sign of good journalism.

[A]

Oh, that's really good.

[B]

I had the Pro HS2 as going, you're not being fair to us. And I had the anti HS2 as going, you're too pro HS2. So like when you've got both sides angry for me that's a sign of a story well told.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

There are countries that we've covered that have taken exception to our content. I wouldn't go to China, I wouldn't go to Saudi Arabia.

[A]

I was. Saudi Arabia was the one that it's like. Yeah. Because I went to the line project twice and it was I mean, everybody was like, oh, it's never going to happen. But when I was there, I was like, I don't know. It looked as legitimate as any other construction project. I've never seen on the scale of Earth moving. I have never. I will never see anything even close to that in my lifetime.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not even. Nothing will ever compare.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To seeing it. But then also, as things have unraveled, it's like, man, yeah. Yeah, that's a tough one.

[B]

I think, like, so we will. We will tell political stories like around human rights issues and delays when it's relevant to the construction project. So we're just going to go and dive into some other political issue in a country just because it happens to be that country. I think if it's related to the project, then for us, we've always taken the approach that that's the fair thing to talk about. So with projects in China and with Saudi Arabia, we've talked about labor issues. Some of the accusations, some of the allegations have been made there. We've given them right of reply. We've always included that right of replies. For me, it's proper, you know, good journalism.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But I know that the approach to a free press is treated very differently in certain countries. So even though I've been invited out very warmly and generously, I would not be to be jumping on a plane to Turkey, Saudi Arabia, China.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Which is. Yeah, yeah. Understandable. But that's. This is the stuff that I just. I never in a million years thought I'd even be considering. Like, it's never a ball. I thought I'd be hitting around in my head of like, all right, what are the geopolitical ramifications?

[B]

Yeah. And it's like, I just. Yeah, it's crazy. I remember we were featured on the news in China, but my, My video, my face was displayed on state television in China.

[A]

Sure. Okay.

[B]

I was. This. We've been on. What was it?

[A]

The.

[B]

The Daily show here in the US they took a clip of our video and we're just playing it on. Like, I don't. Was it on Saturday night TV or something? Or evening TV here? Crazy stuff. Because they, but they're using it as, as part of a political narrative. And you're like, I have a part of this, whether you like it or not. That's what comes with the, Comes with the big audience is a lot of power, but also a lot of responsibility. And you definitely feel the weight of that responsibility.

[A]

Yeah. And it's, it's tough because if you let it in too much, then it starts to erode the foundation.

[B]

You've got to have the integrity.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You got to stand up for yourself.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Even easier when you're a bigger brand.

[A]

Well, yes. Yeah. And that's the way around it. Yeah. Yeah. The bigger you are, the more weight you have, which is. That's exactly it. But, but, but the bigger you get to, the bigger your machine becomes to feed. So then the bigger companies you have to work with, and it's not even. And it's not even politically. A lot of times it's. It's private companies. They want you to craft a message in a certain way or dance in a certain way. And I've also had those challenges that have come up from time to time now, especially the bigger. The bigger the company is, the more politics there are even within that company.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That you have to be aware of. And, and you can't. If they. You can very easily let them. They can very easily push you around, especially at the money they bring to the table.

[B]

You've got to stand up for yourself.

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

You have to.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And we've actually, we've had most success by walking away from stuff. You're like, sorry, we couldn't work. Make it work this time, guys. Hopefully work with you in the future. Lo and behold, a week later. Oh, we've had a few chats internally. We can make this work now.

[A]

Isn't that fine?

[B]

Isn't that fun giving away my tactic on a. Yeah.

[A]

Well. But a lot of times, too, they don't hear. No ever. Because they're this big fancy company.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And even with big fancy companies, a lot of times people within those big fancy companies, they have the brand on their shirt and they're kind of a big deal because they're part of this big fancy company and they don't. They don't even hear. No all that much.

[B]

I actually find it's almost. You have to help guide the tide within that company because there's always. It's so. Some of these companies are so big and so chaotic that by you saying, no, we can only do this date, this location like this to make it work. That's how it's gonna have to happen. Sometimes that helps focus them down and narrow things. I find booking, like once flights and stuff are booked, they can't change stuff. And it gets a lot more locked in, which makes things a lot easier. But yeah, sometimes just getting the Nelly. Getting the jelly nailed to the wall. The Nelly jelly nailed to the wall.

[A]

That's a good Way to put it, though, I also think, like, they don't quite understand. They don't know how to tell their story oftentimes, and they don't know how to make things resonate with the everyday individual. Whereas you do. I have a pretty good grasp on it and so I try not to be an asshole about it. I don't want to be an asshole, and I've done that plenty and it hasn't worked. It's not very effective being the punk kid. Like, surprisingly, people don't appreciate that. But. But you do have to direct them in a productive way, too. And you have to. Especially as I've gotten older, now I start, I'm kind of at the table. Like, I'm a. I'm a peer and I'm actually the subject matter expert here. And so if I defer to them, it's going to end up being something it's not going to be. Right.

[B]

It's a collaboration, though. I find, like, these, these guys, they, they, they know their project, they know the story they're trying to tell. They've got a lot of pressure on their shoulders. Often they know the best places to film, the best angles, what the work schedule is going to be. So it's almost like trying to get yourself at the table going like, actually, I'm one of the world's best construction storytellers. I'm a part of this project too. I can help bring this to life. You need to respect me and I'll respect you. And it's when you get those relationships, that's where the best content comes, when you get that mutual respect. I'll always. Whenever I go on site somewhere quite early on, I try and work out who the gatekeepers are. And I'll work really hard to get a rapport going with them because once you get that rapport going, everything becomes easier. It's about, it's about people and human nature. You know, there's nothing.

[A]

How do you do that quickly? How do you. How do you build rapport with somebody quickly on a site?

[B]

For me, it's about trying to get myself into their shoes. Understanding what their day looks like, what their constraints are, where they've traveled in from, have they got kids, do they know the channel or not? Is often quite helpful. Sometimes if they don't know the channel, it's easier because they think it's just YouTube and doesn't matter too much. So the pressure's off. And then they come out and it gets like 20 million views and they're like, oh, yeah.

[A]

And everybody's talking to them. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Like, yeah, I got that. I got that PR lead. Yeah, you're welcome, guys.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So, yeah, but I think it's just like breaking down the barriers, but humanizing it is the big thing. Often people approach stuff in a very, particularly in construction in a very kind of corporate, serious way and just trying to break the ice and humanize stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And let them know that I'm a person too and I'm coming at this with my own challenges. Let's work together. Well.

[A]

And that I would argue, like, I know you've. You've gotten really deep in on mental health in the construction industry. I think, I think the construction industry is the architect of a lot of the problems that are within the industry in a lot of ways. Because, like, I understand and I've heard it's to a completely different level in Britain. Like from a safety perspective. Health and safety is just like, I feel like that's as strict as it gets anywhere in the world, just about. But it's almost made it sometimes, like, so miserable. Like, you're just, you're treated as purely a number. You're not a human. It's very dehumanizing. Just do your job. Just show up, do your job, and we pay you money. That's all that's happening here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I just. That to me, like, I go to a lot of places. I always try to put myself in their shoes too. And there's. I've visited companies and projects where I was like, this would be an awesome place to work. And then other ones I visited where I was like, I like visiting it, but I would never in a million years work here because I, I'm a human and I, I want to be treated like a human. And that's not, that's not what hap. What's happening here. And it's not their intent, but it's just you put another rule on top of another rule on top of another rule, and you have this agency and that agency and this tri venture and, and, and these folks involved, and then it just becomes this. I don't know what. I don't even know what it is.

[B]

Yeah. I find with that sometimes people end up a very long way from the reason they first got out of bed in the morning and came into construction. Suddenly they're just a cog in a machine and like you say, is miserable. And I think when you look at the mental health statistics around the industry, it's easy to think, you know, what's wrong with People in construction. There is nothing wrong with people in construction. We have amazing people in this industry. What we've done is put them into a set of conditions where it's little wonder their mental health struggles. And because we're seeing it so consistently, like you say, it speaks to the architecture of the industry. This is a fundamental problem with how we operate. We've got the long hours, the long travel distances, the male dominated culture, the stoicism that breeds you're away from home. Away from home. The fact that many people are independent or self employed and rely on getting paid. Frankly, when you've got big companies sometimes who will only pay in 120 days, I'm really proud that we've got a lot more robust about that. We've had people come to us going, we need a video really quickly. We can't pay you for 120 days. I'm like, that's okay. Pay us quickly and we can make it quickly. We can't pay you for a trained way. Okay, we'll make you a video in 120 days. And that's been nice to kind of get more robust about that. We get paid up front now as well. So we had a couple of instances when I was first dying out where a couple of people were like determining whether or not they were going to pay us based on how the video turned out. And I was like, no, that's not going to happen.

[A]

Not how this works or.

[B]

Yeah. People who are like renegotiating after we film or an individual in a company who's a massive fan of the B1M who wants us to do a video but then can't get a contract. I can't get paid for it. It's like, that's great. We're having a contract and you're going to pay us up front, guys.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

That sort of stuff is important.

[A]

Yeah, it's, it's, it is, it is interesting. I've thought a lot about this because construction is hard. Yeah. And it is inherently, it is risky in some ways. And the thought that we can remove risk I think is crazy. It's, it's, it's not actually possible. Even the best, the best way I've explained it is like you're on a road construction crew on the interstate in America. You can be the safest crew in the world. You still have traffic going by you.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

You could still die at any moment. And people do die all the time. Being hit by trucks, cars. They'll hit a cone, the cone will fly up and Hit them and kill them. I mean, all kinds of crazy stuff. It's inherently risky and there's a lot of days that are miserable, but you need people to just work hard and make it happen. So when you're making it even more miserable than it has to be, that's where I think it starts to break. And even like a very simple thing, something like a hill I would die on is swearing in language in the field especially, I'll get. Every once in a while, somebody in the office will kind of chirp at me for swearing. And it's like, okay, when I was a laborer in Phoenix, Arizona, and it was 50 degrees Celsius for you, 115, 120 degrees for Fahrenheit, folks. And I'm in a hole all day. Like sometimes swearing and calling your co workers, whatever, bad word, choose your bad word. Like, that gets you through the day. That's. And that, that actually builds camaraderie. Like, I was more connected with those guys than a lot of other people I've worked very closely with. Because you're in these miserable situations together. Yeah. And you. It's not an office, it's not a comfortable environment, but somebody just has to be in the hole to put that pipe together so that this neighborhood can get water.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, which is it? And I'm not advocating for, like, we need to go back to the wild, wild west and just, just get her done, brother. Like, there's, there's a, there's a middle ground there. But I feel like the pendulum has swung way, way in one direction and now we're sitting around scratching our heads, like, wait a minute, why do we have a mental health problem? Why are so many people unhealthy? Why are so many people drunk? Why are so many people dying by opioids, especially in the States right now? Why can't we get people to work in this industry? Oh, it's all the colleges, it's all the millennials, it's everybody else. It's not us. And it's like, wait a minute. Yeah, wait a minute, hold on. What if we're the problem here? And, and even if all of those things are true, what can we control? We can only control us.

[B]

Absolutely. And it's not, it's not just a shop front problem. Like, vision is really important. I'm a big believer that if we want better talent, we have to tell a better story, which is where the great work that you do really comes in. But often people are attracted to the industry and join the industry and then leave quite quickly. Because as much as we have an attraction problem, we have a retention problem as well. Because the culture they're coming into is a place where, like you just described, where people are like, on a bad day, what the hell am I in here? And it's often not. It's not the great people who are doing a good job who make these amazing projects happen day in, day out. It's the system and the process and the culture we're working within, which everyone always says it's so hard to change because you have to change the contract types, you have to change procurement processes. But it's like, well, yeah, let's do that. Let's get it changed. Come on. Enough's enough. And I think there is a generation. It's. It's taken time, but I think there is a generational shift happening now where people more our age coming into the industry are less tolerant of those kind of practices and, and things being left as they are because it's the status quo, they're more up for, for changing things. Which is good.

[A]

I think it's really good. I think that's the internal friction, though. And any. It's. It's very different. Like, again, you see the industry like I do on a global scale. And so there are, There are countries that, like, don't struggle for, like, they're, they're not talking about this in India, you know, like, they have all the people they need to build. Build what they need to build. But in, in Britain, in Germany and Australia and Canada, in the United States, any developed nation that's been around for a while that has everything kind of built already, it's, it is the exact same conversation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Exact same conversation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, we, we, we. We need more people. And it's like, well, then are we gonna do something different? And there's that. But it's, it's, it's kind of changing. But yeah, there's that friction between the two generations right now.

[B]

Yeah. Like, I think it's important to recognize there are different cultures as well. Because it's easy, I think, to, to look at places like China, India, the Middle east and go, well, they're building stuff really quickly. Why can't we build as quickly as that with all that labor? The labor is treated very differently. It's procured very differently. So you can't do the apples with apples comparison. But equally, like, I've, I've traveled the world, seen some amazing projects. There is a stark difference between how long it takes something to get built in the US which is relatively simple as compared to the Middle East, China or Europe. I stood on a bridge project again. Part of the Northeast corridor is a simple bridge over a river. And they're talking about $4 billion in 10 years. And I was like, what do you mean 10 years to get across that China would do in 10 months.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not saying that's the right thing to do, but most other countries would do that in years, 18 months.

[A]

But it shows what's possible. And at least in the US we're very arrogant. We think we're the best because that's what we've been told our entire lives. Like we won World War II. We've been, we've, you know, every, you know. Yeah, but, but, but that's like, that's how we're programmed. Like China sucks. You know, we're, we're the best. So on and so forth. And that's what I've had to come to terms with over the past decade. Ish. Traveling the world, seeing the world. And especially like the thing that's pissed me off the most is airports. Because it's kind of a one to one comparison, you know. And I've been told my entire life, America is number one. I just flew back from Mumbai. I go to the Mumbai airport. I'm like, how good is the Mumbai airport going to be? I walk into the Mumbai airport, I'm like, this might be one of the most beautiful buildings.

[B]

I've been in that Navi. Mumbai. You went from the new airport?

[A]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. It's gorgeous. There's plant trees inside. And every gate has, you know, the planted wall behind that.

[B]

That the entire airport, the land reclamation, the land clearance, the runways, the terminals, the gates, the infrastructure. US$2 billion.

[A]

I looked it up.

[B]

The, the Second Avenue subway to go. I think a mile of Subway was $2 billion in New York.

[A]

We've spent four on our airport going on 4 billion for the airport right now in Nashville. And it sucks still, But it's, it's, it's. I go from, I go from that airport to. Then I go through Hong Kong. And Hong Kong is amazing. Unbelievable. Built on this giant reclaimed piece of land and multiple runways and just the infrastructure and the bridge to get the whole thing is unbelievable. And then I fly into Chicago o' Hare and I'm just like.

[B]

That's iconic though. That was in Home Alone.

[A]

Yes, but it wasn't even that terminal. It was, it was, you know, you're just. And, and, and I tried to put myself in the perspective in the shoes of like, I'm an Indian guy flying from Mumbai into Chicago. And this is the first.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is the front door of America.

[B]

Yeah. I've had, come on US Airport, experience the work. Not always. Nashville's not bad.

[A]

It's not. No, it's not bad.

[B]

LAX people are just really mean to me every time. That's just la. I flew to Dali. It's the capital. Yeah. The capital of the United States. I was stunned. They were, they were transferring people from this enormous plane on these little, you know, the little weird airport transfer building things that you sit in and then they kind of drive across the tarmac. They're only at Dalys. Oh, weird things.

[A]

I haven't been on that.

[B]

I think you got like 30 or 40 people in each one. And there was one of them transferring our entire flight of 500 people to the airport. I got there, I waited in a two hour customs queue to get my passport checked. And then because it had taken so long to get through all that stuff, the bag. Belt had finished. Our bags were piled up in a big mountain. I had to fish for my bag.

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

And then work my way to D.C. i was like, I'm in the capital of the U.S. what the fuck is going on?

[A]

Yeah. Which is a very fair, very fair thought. And as an American, that pisses me off that somebody would come from outside of the States and even think that. Because it's like if you looked at, if you looked at everything on a spreadsheet, we should be number one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But we're so like. And it's just proven to be more and more false every time. Like even. I mean, every time, like even, like I'm not even cherry picking here. Last year I was in Jakarta. I'm like, all right, how good is Jakarta airport going to be? I go to Jakarta's airport. I'm like, this is incredible. This is unbo. This place. Guys. Like, look at this place. And again, I fly into some like Dallas Fort Worth or something like that.

[B]

I'm just like.

[A]

And it's not, it's not a one to one, but it is a one to one in a lot of ways.

[B]

I do think US airports are getting better. We're kind of going down a rabbit hole here.

[A]

They are.

[B]

But I think I haven't had universally terrible experiences. They are getting better. Flew to Atlanta last year and our bags for some reason were put on belt one.

[A]

Atlanta is a nightmare.

[B]

And belt six. So your bag might be on belt one or belt six. I was like. And the guy's like, it's okay because you can see belt six, but I've got black bags. So like how the freaking hell am I going to find my bike?

[A]

They want you to get your steps in after the fall.

[B]

But high speed rails, we'll go back to that. Another example. But I feel like the rest of Europe and Asia can build high speed rail very quickly and easily. Well, the UK is appalling. Yeah. Building. I'm, I'm, I'm embarrassed when people come and encounter our trade network.

[A]

But that, but that, that's where the, like you can remove China, you can remove a lot of these countries from the high speed rail conversation. And you still have Spain.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're just out there just blowing and going man. And just, just building rail like crazy for very low cost per kilometer, mile, whatever your metric is. And so it's like kind of just down the road and so it's not that far and, and it's a developed nation like not all that different.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And yet something's just gone completely wrong.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's, I just want to get the world back to like, can we just build stuff to serve people 100%?

[B]

Like because right now the world needs that more than ever. We're under, the industry is under pressure to build things faster at a higher quality, at a faster rate, more sustainably than ever before. At the same time we've got this skills crisis. We've got, I think something like 41% of the existing workforce is going to retire by 2030. 31. So the world needs the buildings, but we haven't got the people. And AI is not going to fill that gap. AI is not going to build a building in the next five years.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So you can quote me on that when it does. But you know, like clip that, like how are we going to solve that problem? You know that, that for me is why the construction industry is so important right now. It's a huge part of most countries gdp. A lot of their economies rely on stuff getting built. So the rubber is going to hit the road in the next couple of years I really think for the construction industry.

[A]

Well, and that is just building new stuff. But all of the stuff we depend on every single day, water, gas, roads, power. It's only getting older.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's only getting more and more corroded.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, and then what, and that, that to me is like at least on this in the States we built a lot of it post World war. World War II. We had all this industrial capacity coming off the War, all these people coming back, we're like, we need to do something with all this stuff.

[B]

The tunnel in Baltimore I went in was opened when Ulysses Grant was president. I'm like, hang on, crazy. That's the guy I saw on a statue sitting on a horse in Washington. What are you talking about? Ulysses Crown?

[A]

Yes. But most everything, like post World War II, 1950s, we're 20, 26, we're 75ish years, which is, and the design life on a lot of this stuff is 50 years, 60 years, 70 years, 75 maybe. And so like we're there and then what do we just let stuff break and put more and more band aids on it and. But then how many band aids is too many band aids?

[B]

And it always struck me that the bipartisan infrastructure bill, the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs act you guys pass 2021 was $1.2 trillion, but it entered Congress at $4 trillion. 4 trillion. I know you could argue that's them going big to try and negotiate down, but most experts were saying, yeah, 4 trillion would do it. That's just to get stuff working.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So you've only spent a quarter of what you guys need to spend.

[A]

Well, and I don't even think a majority of that money went to infrastructure. Okay, I, and I really want to dig into it, but my, one of the, one of the points I've been harping on is yeah, we just spent $1.2 trillion more money than we've ever spent on infrastructure by like a wide margin ever, ever, ever, ever. That was the most money spent on infrastructure in a five to seven year period in human history. Has anybody's life changed in America? I don't know one person, but, but that's what's confusing to me is like, where did the money go? And that I think a lot of the money is not actually going to concrete steel to actually building stuff it's tied up in. Because right now a lot of people don't talk about, even with, in the states for our road system, we have the dots. The Department of Transportations and Tennessee has their dot, Kentucky has their dot, Georgia is their dot. If I'm a, I'm a young engineer, I'm a kid out of school, I might go to work for a DOT for a while because it's, it's a pretty good job. It's government. I'm going to learn how to design stuff, so on and so forth. And then these big engineering firms are going to come in and be like, dude, you can make. I don't know, maybe $95,000 a year, like, and then you can maybe get up to like 110 in 15, 20 years. Come on over here. We'll just pay you 120 right now. You can come into our stock program and you can make even more money. And because labor, it's not just labor building projects, it's all of these. It's the administrators, it's the inspectors, it's the engineers, the consultants. They've started to kind of. And, and, and it's business. I get it. It's capitalism. But they've kind of like, well, we can just take, take, take, take. And now you can't administer the project yourself, so you have to pay us

[B]

to do it within a dollar. How much of it actually goes onto bricks and mortar and concrete?

[A]

That's what I'm wondering. Yes. I don't know.

[B]

I kind of challenge you a bit, though, because I think, I agree the bang for buck isn't great. In the US Generally, like, ST Stuff's very expensive. And we can explore your conspiracy theory around where the funding went. But I, I think that there's been some traction. There's been projects greenlit and stuff's happened.

[A]

Like, I'm being overly.

[B]

It has impacted people's lives.

[A]

I'm being overly critical, like standing up for Amtrak here. We've done. You're one of the few. They're, they're, they're coming along, though. They're coming along. We've done a good job with telecommunications. There's been a lot of upgrades to gas. There's been a lot of upgrades to our wastewater water treatment throughout the United States. So there, there have been some, some major improvements. Airports have been, have done really well, but they're mostly financed themselves with some federal money. But my point is, like, for more money than that's ever been spent on infrastructure and human history.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

I want, I want the world's best infrastructure. You know, I would expect my life to look a lot different.

[B]

Give me 1.2.

[A]

Yeah. Well, you're going to go drive to the airport after this. You tell me that we're good to go in Nashville.

[B]

I've been to Nashville before. I actually quite like Nashville Airport. It's all right.

[A]

No, no, the airport. But driving.

[B]

Oh, drive.

[A]

You're going to sit in traffic from here to there. It's not even that far.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

Because the road system is just a disaster.

[B]

Absolutely. And whenever I go to New York is the worst. Whenever I go to New York, I have to just write the day off because I know that I'm going to do the whole, the whole obstacle of getting to the airport and do a long haul flight at the UK side. And then when I get there, I've got an absolute mission to get from the airport to Manhattan with my son.

[A]

If you're going to. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I had a sky train is quite good. I've mastered the sky train now.

[A]

From which airport?

[B]

From jfk.

[A]

From jfk.

[B]

It's a mission. It's not easy, but it's easier than sitting in two hours of traffic.

[A]

Yeah. I flew through Newark the other day and I was like, I'll go into Manhattan. I layover and I thought about it. I'm like, I'm not going to go to Manhattan. What am I, what, what am I thinking about? That's not how that works.

[B]

I passed Manhattan. Now I stay in the financial district because it's quieter. First time I went, stayed in midtown. Big mistake. Yeah, it was awful.

[A]

No, Find it like, like, like. Is that Wall Street? Ish.

[B]

Kind of Greenwich. Greenwich street area down there.

[A]

Pretty fancy over there.

[B]

Is it?

[A]

I feel like.

[B]

Well, it's hard roll, mate.

[A]

Nah, I'm talking out of my ass right now. Now I think Soho maybe or West Village.

[B]

Oh no, Greenwich Street.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Sorry. This is down, down in the, near the World Trade Center.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, down there is nice and. Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. Yeah. I'm too old for middle.

[A]

You'll find this interesting. We were, we were just down there visiting a utility contractor one block over from the World Trade center area. And it's like two blocks of line that they're having to replace and it's taking them years because of how many utilities, because they have to hand dig everything and then you, you break and so you can't bid the work. Like you can't bid the project. You can kind of put a price on it and then you just have to open the street up and just kind of see what's there.

[B]

And let me guess, the price goes up, right?

[A]

Boy does it. But, but, but it should because they're. But then it kind of goes to like a negotiated rate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they, the contractor's not making a ton of money. Like I talked to them about their margins, this and that. It's not very good. But you just, you, you open it up and then you start to like. Then you kind of have to figure out what's what. Like whose utility is whose. And then what is abandoned, what's new, what needs to be relocated. Well, you can just cut out of

[B]

the way the movies was like trying to cut the wire on the bottom.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like don't cut that wire.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, but then, but no, no, no. It's like, it's like you have to, you have to cut the right wire but there's another wire in your way but that someone else has to cut. And you call them and, and they're like I'm kind of busy right now, I'll be there kind of whenever I. And you're looking at the timer like I need to cut it. Yeah. Cuz it's a different utility Y. And they work on their schedule, not yours.

[B]

We have that in the uk, UK projects the, the utility companies were always. And sorry if you're listening as a utility company, but utility companies have their own sectional risk register. And trying to get them off the critical path was the most important thing. Because to book a date for one people to come in and open the road and someone else to come in and do their bit in the road and someone else to come back and close the road and then someone else to come and put a sign on the road, all of that could just take six, seven, eight months easily. So getting it out of your way on a project is so important. We actually built, I remember we built our substation energy generator on a hospital project deliberately on the other side of the car park so that they could just do their thing and not slow down our building.

[A]

It was crazy. And I like with all this stuff. I try not to be overly critical. I try to point out some glaring issues with the intent of guys, let's do this better. We're better than this. Society deserves more. Like let's, let's make this. Why isn't this the best industry in the world to work for? Like it should be.

[B]

It's for me it's the best industry in the world. And I will argue with anyone all day long. I agree like, and I will happily argue why it's more important than medicine or food production or supermarkets or any other rubbish you want to bring up. Like, honestly, construction is the best industry in the world. But like you say, talking about this I think reveals why it's so important and why it matters. Because the stuff we're talking about is what, what people are encountering all the time on different projects around the world. And if we got it sorted, not just this isn't just construction industry problem, it's like a, it's like a bureaucracy and political local government problem. If we got all that stuff sorted, we would all live better, more efficient Lives, our tax dollars would go further. You know, it's conversations like this, I think, that really help highlight to people why it matters to your life sitting at home.

[A]

Yeah, and that, that, but, and that's why, though I've, that's why I've struggled in a way when people criticize foreign governments for their spending on infrastructure and, and some of the stuff they're doing, because it's like, I don't know if right or wrong, I don't know if it's gonna succeed or anything like that. I, I don't know. But like, can I go criticize a country for prioritizing themselves and spending money on stuff to hopefully make life better within their countries?

[B]

It's an incredible vehicle for not just obviously dealing with infrastructure and then the economic impact of that infrastructure is well, well documented how good that can be for your economy. But generally investing in infrastructure projects is an incredible vehicle for nudging the tiller of your ship, nudging the direction of your country in a different, better direction. It's the most effective way that governments can really change the narrative is through big infrastructure projects that change whole regions and economies. So. And a lot of countries get that. It's just getting those projects to actually

[A]

go smoothly, which is a whole other can of worms. But that, that, to me, that's my struggle with the. Coming from the US Perspective, it's like, well, we have the trillions for war. The money's there, like, and the ambition is there. We can move heaven and earth to go take over whatever country we want right now or not right now.

[B]

We try the whole other book.

[A]

Yeah, but, but, but it, it's, it's. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's, it's. From a US Perspective, it's very disheartening to see like, oh yeah, how many, how many more trillions do you need? Oh, sure, sure. Have, have all the trillions in need for, for war. But like roads. Ah, this is why I'm into it.

[B]

The work you do and the work we do is so important because it helps people understand construction. And when they understand construction, they value it. And when they value it, everything changes.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

This is, this isn't just you and I sticking up some content.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

It's. Well, we would say this, wouldn't we? But I. From my perspective, we are pretty fundamental to changing the world.

[A]

I agree. I think it's, I think storytelling is foundational to creating, creating the change necessary on the back to the mental health front what have you noticed there? Like, what are the. When a company is like, yeah, our people are struggling, what do we have to do here? Like if they really want to get better, what do you tell them on how to make things better?

[B]

For me is about deep rooted behavioral change, which isn't easy, but it's about building a culture and an environment where you recognize and respect people's mental health. For too many companies, they think that putting out some social media posts on World Mental Health Day, having an employee assistance program or sticking a poster up in the cafeteria is job done. Statement on the website, we, we look after mental health. Great. You have to walk the walk. You can't just talk the talk. And there are. You need a multifaceted approach to create an environment where people feel able to talk about how they're feeling, to recognize they've got mental health issues, to

[A]

reach

[B]

out to people and get support when they, when they think they need it and in a way that isn't going to get them held back or black marked or kind of thought less of by their boss in some way. So it takes a lot of leading by example, which is hard when leaders themselves haven't necessarily experienced mental health. But again, for me the generational shift is helping as well. I think we have grown up in a generation where mental health is much better understood and accepted and is recognized as something that's just as important as physical health. We can all get colds and flu and we can all struggle with our mental health from time to time. It doesn't mean we're not going to make great leaders. What I have found is that this was, I think quite a taboo subject in the industry a couple of years ago. When I first started talking about my own mental health experiences, I was terrified because I was worried that I was going to be seen as weak or doubted in some way. But when I did talk about it, I think on a personal level it enabled me to recognize and acknowledge something I was struggling with that I now own and I recognize and that has made me a thousand times stronger than I ever was before.

[A]

What prompted you to even start talking about it?

[B]

It's a good question. I, I don't mind saying that I kind of hit rock bottom and I hit rock bottom in a very public facing role where no one knew I'd hit rock bottom. So kind of putting a front on and not being seen to have nothing wrong with me every day. I still think I'm deserved a best actor award, to be quite honest, for putting the front on that I did. But, yeah, behind the scenes, out of sight, out of mind, behind the camera, I did hit rock bottom. And I felt that I didn't really have anything to live for anymore, which was scary and lonely because on paper, my life was great. And I realized in that moment that mental health can affect anybody. I didn't want to end my life, so I set out to kind of rebuild my life in a way that I was. I just. I just don't really give a damn anymore about other stuff. I'm not gonna let it get in the way for me. I'm gonna prioritize the things that lift me up and make me happy. I'm gonna take away the things that drag me down. And it's really little stuff. The stuff that makes me happy is like getting a gym session in, Getting my first cup of coffee in the morning, hugging my kids, laughing with my son. A good weather day. Blue skies. Blue skies lift me up massively. It's just little things like that,

[A]

the

[B]

uk, but when the sun's shining right out there, yeah, it's. It's little things, but they're the things that really lift me up. And there are. There are equally some negative things that can really pull me down. But for me, rebuilding in that way, I. I kind of got my priorities straight at last. And I now live a. For me, I think I live a much better life. Also, because I did talk about it publicly, I now feel like I'm a lot more understood. And the big thing that struck me, as I said a moment ago, is that this was quite a taboo subject in the industry. But when I opened up and started talking about it, there was a huge amount of acceptance, which was incredibly huge sense of relief, to be honest.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But also a lot of people saying, thanks for doing that, because I feel the same way. And actually, you don't have to go very far in construction to find people who are struggling with their mental health. Every single talk I do, including the talk I did here in Nashville yesterday, I will talk about mental health. And then afterwards, I'll have people come to me and say they've had their own struggles and talk about what we can do to solve the issue. This is something that affects construction teams everywhere. It doesn't matter. The culture, the country, the continent that you're in. We all as human beings see, feel, and experience things in the same way. And that's sad, because mental health is a. Is an issue that's affecting construction workers worldwide. But it's also an opportunity because if we can get this Sorted worldwide. We can make a huge impact.

[A]

That's. I've talked a lot about this. People always ask, you know, what are the differences when you go to these different places? And I'm always like, honestly, there's some things that are different here or there, like, safety might be a little different, or building method might be a little different, but, like, people are just people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's what's been so striking to me, is how similar somebody I can be. I can be in the uae. It. It's. It's as different as it gets. Or India or Korea, like, completely. Completely different cultures. And yet there is still this human connection that I have with these people, and it's just like, they're just a person like me.

[B]

Makes the world feel smaller. Right.

[A]

It's unbelievable. It is. Amazes me more and more. It only amazes me more.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, everybody's always like, what's the difference? I'm like, the most incredible thing is how similar I am. I was just in Zambia to pick your person on the side of the road in Zambia.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Identical in so many. In so many ways.

[B]

Like, I think some of these big international construction collaborations show what we can achieve when we positively work together, when we come together and collaborate to make the world we all share and live on a better place, rather than bombing the life out of each other for no reason.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Well.

[A]

And that was. That was. Honestly, it was a really. There were a few formative experiences for me. One was the first time I went to China in 2017, because I've been told my entire life, China sucks. And I went there and I was looking around, I was like, I don't. I mean, it has its problems, like the US has its problems, but it seems pretty put together to me. Like, this is a pretty unbelievable society, very different, and. And I like ours, but I have to kind of respect what they've done. And. And then the next one was the Middle east for me. I think I've been there four times now, But Middle east from a reputation standpoint in the US Is like, you're gonna go get bombed on any street corner. I mean, that's straight up what people are like. Do you have your life insurance policy squared away? And the first time I went there, I was like, this is an extraordinary place. This is a beautiful place. It's a beautiful culture. The people are just extremely friendly. There is. I feel safer here than I do in Los Angeles.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Pick your US city. I feel safer in. In. In. In the rural towns I've been In there, the cities I've been in there. And it's just. Yeah, it's, it's. It's so. It's so interesting to actually see it for yourself and, and to. To. To. To. I don't know the point I was trying to make here, but. But to just experience that. A lot of people don't get to experience that. And again, it's just. It's all just humanity. Everybody's out. Like you. Your goal is to ensure that your family's cared for and that your kids have a better life than you have. That's kind of everybody.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Every. Like, you kind of want to be left alone. You kind of want to do your thing. You want to be. You want to have some sense of authority over your life. You don't want to be told what to do.

[B]

You.

[A]

You want. You want to have, like, good food and a safe neighborhood and. And then you want to provide for your family. That's kind of everybody.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny. When push comes to shove, most people are pretty kind and pretty decent. I found no matter what situation, everybody, I, I. Pretty rare for someone to be a genuine art.

[A]

Also so rare. So rare. So rare. Like, I. I mean, the amount of people you probably have interacted with. I've interacted with so many more than somebody would in a lifetime interact with, even on an annual basis. I bet. Just how many people that are in our proximity. So rarely do I see anybody that's just genuinely terrible. Yeah. And yet when I watch tv, which I don't, but when I see it on in the airport or something like that, it's all about how. How much everybody sucks and how just bad everybody is. But then that's why being out in the world and travel is like the antidote to so many of these things. It's like, wait a minute. We're all kind of just in this together, and everybody is like, for the most part, a pretty decent person.

[B]

100%.

[A]

I don't think it's that complicated. What prompted the book because you probably didn't need more work to do.

[B]

Yeah. Penguin Random House reached out to me and said, you want to write a book? And when you get that email, you basically don't say no. So I was like, yeah, sounds great. You write. I don't have a lot of time to write a book. I took every Saturday out my schedule for good five months. And again, my amazing wife looked after our kids while we worked together to make the book happen. I also hunkered down on long Haul flights and stayed in my hotel room when I was visiting cool cities. Yeah, I actually really loved doing it. I really got into it. I think you will be able to tell when you get the book that the second half is better than the first half, which is just what you want in a book, because everyone's gonna keep reading to the second half.

[A]

You're really selling it.

[B]

Yeah, it's my first. My first book. Yeah, I once. I just kind of stopped overthinking it and just let myself write. That's when all the good stuff came out, and I just. Yeah, I couldn't hold myself back some days from writing it. I loved putting it together. I loved embracing the medium. My whole life, I have been trying to condense stuff down into a tweet or an Instagram post or a script or a. A take for a podcast. And then I submitted the first chapter, and my editor's like, oh, this. This here sounds really interesting.

[A]

Just.

[B]

Just expand on that for me. And I'm like, oh, I can write 5,000 words per chapter. This is crazy. So, yeah, it was like learning the fact that I could dive into the medium in a different way was. Was great.

[A]

Did. Did you know what you were going to write about first thing?

[B]

I. They wanted to be about mega projects. They wanted to kind of bring some of the coolest products to life for people in the book, but also go a bit deeper than that. So it's kind of narrative nonfiction. There is a journey there where I talk about not just the projects, but my experiences visiting them, what it's like. What it's kind of like behind this. Behind the scenes, making this stuff happen. I got to choose the 10 projects that are in there and reshuffle them, overthink them, you know, all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, they kind of. The. The overall concept was penguins, but the book is very much mine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

People like, oh, so you had a ghostwriter, right? Or you used AI to write that? Like, no, I sat on my laptop for five fucking months.

[A]

But I. But I think that it only screws them. Like, you've. You've been in the creative process for so long that you. I don't have to explain the creative process to you, but there are so many people that avoid the creative process, and there are more. More tools than ever to avoid the creative process, and it makes me so sad for them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because there's so much. It's so rich. There's so much magic in sitting down at a laptop when you really don't want to. On A long haul flight, you're kind of dazed, out of your mind and you're like, I've got to fill at least one page.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there's like, effort is what makes anything worthwhile. And for people that try to remove that, like, it doesn't make me feel cheated, it makes me sad for them because they're the ones that lose first. It just, it bums me out.

[B]

You must find this. But people say to me, oh, how did you build this company? How did you write a book?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How did you manage to do that bench press? It's like, well, I worked really hard at it, you know, it takes time. I chipped away at it. And those days where people were telling me to go back and get a real job, this was never going to work. Those people are still sat at the same desks in the same open plan office for a boss that I know for a fact they hate. And you know, if you don't push yourself, if you don't believe in something, if you don't put in the steps and map out the journey between point A and point B, you're never going to get anywhere. You're never going to get to point B.

[A]

But I think to that point, I think it's worse in Britain. The negativity around somebody trying to break away, I've heard.

[B]

Yeah. That is something I've noticed by coming to the US quite a lot. I think in the us, success, business success is really celebrated. Yeah. And I'm sorry to say in the uk, the more successful you become, the more disliked you tend to become. I don't think that's necessarily universally true, but that's certainly the feeling I get. You kind of get more punished for being successful in the uk, I've heard, than you do in the us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's, that's very strange things. When I come to the us, I'm getting a huge pat on the back the whole time. And in the uk it's often, what could you do better? Which is kind of quite nice. Also, like the whole government tax system, running a small company in the UK is horrendously difficult and they just make it more expensive and more tax heavy all the time. And I'm like, I'm, I'm a young entrepreneur. I did this off my own back. I've created 20 jobs that weren't there before in an industry that didn't really exist before. You know, content creation, construction certainly in my country wasn't a thing. And now you just want to make it really difficult for me?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why?

[A]

I mean, it's the same here. Like if you, if you actually do the math in your head, how many months, a year you work for the government.

[B]

Don't look at it that way.

[A]

No. It makes me want to go play in traffic.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I, I, it's, and it, and it only gets more. They're not like, you know, we're actually gonna take less of your money. Like, we're, we're, we've got enough. Like, let's, let's actually make it better for you. It's like now we're just gonna make

[B]

it more because you, you followed your passion to come in and build what you've built. But you, you realize that you have to become the more successful you get at it, the further you get from your passion in a way. Or the further you can get from your passion if you're careful.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because you can end up just in. You have to suddenly become an HR director, a legal director, an accountant expert. You have to become a tax management expert. Like working out how much is good to declare as profit, how much you should reinvest into the business for tax purposes and stuff.

[A]

That.

[B]

I don't want to be doing any of that. I want to go and film cool construction projects.

[A]

Yeah, well, but like I said, being on sites, that's the easiest part. Probably the easiest part of your job. Yeah, like the, by far the most enjoyable.

[B]

Like, you know, Norway. Norway. A couple weeks ago, I said to the guys, we were heading out, we were at the hotel breakfast at some unearthly hour before we went out to shoot. And my head was swirling because I'd woken up in my hotel room early. I was getting my work done earlier in a different time zone. There are so many things happening, so many plates spinning. I said to the guys to go into a tunnel for the day and just focus on filming. This story with you two is so good for me right now because I just need it, I just need to know that's what's happening and that's what I'm doing. Stop worrying about all the other stuff. So I'm shutting out the, the whirring, the white noise is, is good.

[A]

It's, it's, you have to be present in those moments. Like I, we had it the other, the other day. We went out to a mine again in the evening, which is my favorite time to shoot in the evening. And we got down into the pit at like 4:30 and then it was like I snapped my fingers and there we were driving out three hours Later. And I was like, what just happened? Like, because it was so. But it was just so enjoyable. Like, I was just so into it 100 that. But it's almost scary, like, just how quickly it also goes. It's like, wow, I was just in it, man.

[B]

There's moments you're like, I'm. I'm being paid to be here.

[A]

It's crazy.

[B]

This is so. This is my job.

[A]

It's crazy.

[B]

This is so cool. Like, yeah, how was work this week? And I wasn't at work this week.

[A]

Well, everybody's always like, oh, is it a work. Is it a work trip or for fun?

[B]

I'm like, what's the difference?

[A]

To me, that's a dumb question. But. But then to the. To the. To the everyday person, they can't. It's not Almost. Not even worth explaining.

[B]

Their job is something that's a chore.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

They can't get there Sunday night and they feel low.

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

Whenever I get my haircut, the guy's like, oh, what time you finished work today? And I'm like, well, I don't really finish work.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I always just say five, you know, just to end the conversation.

[A]

Sometimes I do that. Exactly.

[B]

I'm an introvert. I don't have. I don't want to chat about it. It's a whole big thing. If I explain to my YouTuber, you know, don't want to cause a scene, but they're like, I know I don't finish. I. I think about it constantly. Yeah. I'm coming up with content ideas and planning stuff constantly.

[A]

Do you just another thing that I'm. I just have come to accept is when I'm called a YouTuber, it's like, yeah, I'm a YouTuber. Like, I don't even try to explain anymore. I'm.

[B]

No. Yeah. And like, it can be said in quite a dismissive way as well.

[A]

Yes. Yes. And it can bother you.

[B]

I've won journalism awards and I'm proud of it. It used to bother me. It doesn't bother me anymore. It used to suck at barbecues. This is before I had my kind of mental health meltdown where people are going in, what do you do? And it's like, oh, yeah. Working PwC or finance. Oh, great. Your fantasy, you'll be a partner next year. You're going to be a partner. Yeah.

[A]

Retired as a partner. Deloitte.

[B]

So sorry.

[A]

Yeah. No, no, no. Trust me.

[B]

I.

[A]

No. Yeah.

[B]

Or like, he doesn't listen to people's parents where they're sort of like, yeah. Looking down at you like, what are you doing? Where's your career going? And when they say you're a YouTuber, they go, oh, what, so what else do you do? What's your, what's your main job?

[A]

Like?

[B]

No, I'm a YouTuber and I have a multi million pound media company that employs several people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they're like, oh, wow. Or people come to me and they're like, so have you gone full time yet? Like, yeah, idiots.

[A]

Yeah, but that, but that. But then you get to a level where it's like, it's kind of fun now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

One, you don't give a shit. And then two, I like to sometimes mess with it a little bit and play it down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And just completely. And. And I'm introverted as well, so sometimes I'm like, I don't have energy to engage here. I'm just gonna. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I'm gonna be on my way.

[B]

Yeah. But I, Yeah, it's the best feeling though, because you, you say you're a YouTuber and people go, oh yeah, not a few. It says you got 4 million. Yeah, it's kind of right, I guess. Yeah. It's just funny. Like, yeah. People that stuck being a partner in a boring job and they'd like get to go one business trip a year and I'm like, oh, yeah, sorry I'm late. I just bit hung over, you know, or bit jet lags. Just flew in business class from X place. I just can't compute that the thing that you created that no one thought was the thing and everyone told you was a stupid idea is now changing your life in a massive way and lifting up and creating jobs for other people. Yeah. And while they're still doing their thing, stuck with someone else, deciding what their salary should be, when they're going to get promoted, what hours they work, what day is it to be in the office.

[A]

Well. And what. In what other job, like construction is so valuable? Because you, you are impacting so many people with everything you do, but you're in the same bucket too. I mean, you're impacting millions of people, tens of millions of people, hundreds of millions of people with the work you're doing.

[B]

Like, how's all you.

[A]

That's crazy. I know. It is crazy to be halfway around the world with somebody showing you one of your videos.

[B]

You're like, whoa, you must get that. It never ceases to amaze me where people will stop me and say, like, are you Fred from the Be all

[A]

now we're just getting coffee and stuff.

[B]

A neighborhood in Tokyo. We were outside the outskirts of Tokyo filming in some random little neighborhood. Sorry if this is your neighborhood, by the way. And this guy stopped me in the stream, was like, oh, I've watched your channel all the time. Watched it last night. What are you talking about? We're in a small town in Japan.

[A]

Yes. Yeah.

[B]

I was at the Grand Canyon a few weeks ago, and the guy serving eggs at the campsite said, so are you here for a video or just on holiday? And I'm like, whoa, No, I am.

[A]

Well, do you have that? Do you have it too? Where, like, they. They're. They trying to play it cool and they. And. And sometimes I'll have it where I'll be like, I'll. I'll talk to somebody for 15 minutes. I. I don't like to assume people know who the hell I am and what I'm doing. So I'll tell them this, this, this, and then they'll say something. They'll say information that I didn't give them that clearly is like, oh, they know exactly what's going on.

[B]

Stalker.

[A]

Yeah, but. But it's like, I wish you would have just said that you know what's going on. Because then we could have avoided all this.

[B]

This charade and we play it cool more often. I tend to get. Is the overwhelmed exciting.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Can I get a picture? Oh, my God, I can't wait for meeting you. You changed my life. But then what. What blows my mind is that people will come up and say hello in all kinds of random locations, like the Grand Canyon, Tokyo, Sydney, London. Underground airplanes. I had one guy wake me up on than airplane ones. Tapped me on the shoulder taking my eye patch off. I'm like, yeah, what do you want? He goes, are you Fred Mills? Like, I think I said, no, I'm not Fred Mills. Off. But like, how many people have spotted you but haven't said hello?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Or actually don't like you?

[A]

Yeah. O. Yeah.

[B]

There's one. One to think about.

[A]

I don't think about that very much. Spend a lot of time on that one. It was. I was in the security line in Johannesburg, and there was like a glass partition around the people on the outside. And there was. I looked over. I'm kind of in the middle of the security line. Somebody's pointing at their phone at me. But I thought it was. I thought it was to somebody else. So I ignored him. And I kind of go around again, and then I end up by the glass and he's there at the glass. And he has one of, one of like on Instagram or something pointing. I'm like, no way.

[B]

Johannesburg.

[A]

In Johannesburg. Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, what?

[A]

This is so silly. Do you spend any time in comments?

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah, I'm sure you have some. Probably a bunch of friendly people. But some of the people on YouTube, the comments so, like, are so funny and, like, I think they're hilarious.

[B]

I have a really good team who keep an eye on that stuff for me. And, like, if there's a general trend in a comment section around something like lots of people saying we've missed the mark on XYZ or that's good X something, then obviously people respond to it. But I, I don't try and have arguments of people on the Internet.

[A]

No, no, you can't. You can't argue with people. Yeah.

[B]

You're never gonna win.

[A]

No.

[B]

And I just don't let it ruin my life, to be honest.

[A]

No, I, I, I think it's because I've taken care of myself mentally and physically. Like, I'm not a train wreck 100%. And so I can. When someone talks shit about me, I don't get all that wound up about it. I actually think it's pretty funny also.

[B]

You've had so much success under your belt now that whatever's happening in that moment or whatever that person is saying isn't going to change the narrative. It's not going to make or break.

[A]

No. No.

[B]

So no. Who cares?

[A]

Like, one guy recently, it was like last week, I thought it was actually kind of funny. I've been thinking about it, but in a funny way, he's, he said I look like I have an autoimmune disorder, like hiv. And it, because I'm thin and it's

[B]

like,

[A]

it's like, dude, if you saw my Strava, you would know it's not hiv. It's called fucking work.

[B]

Going for a run.

[A]

Yeah. It's called being a triathlete.

[B]

That's another term for this triathlon.

[A]

I was just cracking up, man. It was so funny.

[B]

I had a guy, we had a guy making death threats about me because he was. Yeah, it's really nice. Yeah. That's the first time I ever had close protection, security, which was really weird. But he, his thing was that I don't ever want to hear a British accent talking about American projects.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

And just because I was British, he was like, really? How dare you talk about our projects, our country.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So he took.

[A]

We have some of those to an edge.

[B]

It was Pretty wild. And then my holiday in America recently, I did a road trip around Arizona, Utah, Las Vegas. Went to a cowboy ranch. I rode horses there with my family. I took a picture of a stable that had all kinds of. I just felt the picture really conveyed the place I was in. There was like, there was, you know, horse tack and stuff up everywhere. There was a horse eating some grass. There was. And they were in the background against the wall. There was a Trump sign. Because I felt it kind of portrayed it just for me. Told a story about where I was that day and it was a carousel of like 10 pictures. People assumed that I was subtly intimating that I was a massive Trump supporter. And the comments just went crazy. I didn't reply to any of them, but the comments went crazy. Including one guy who had a whole argument with himself about how, Fred, you deserve to give us an answer about whether or not you're a Trump supporter or not. And because I was on holiday, I didn't reply within 12 hours. So he came back and was like, thanks for the non answer, buddy. I'm going to unsubscribe until all my friends unsubscribe as well. You loser. I'm like, that is just. Why don't, just don't go in the comment section. No, it's wild.

[A]

Well, I, I like, I like the people that are upset with watching the video. And it's like, then don't watch the video.

[B]

We had a guy shout at me in San Diego, like properly comp to me and start having a go at me at an event. It was really scary. But he was like, every time I open my phone, your face is there. You just never have a day off. Do. You're just constantly in my face all the time. And I'm like, that's crazy. I was like, really taken aback. How can you get just unsubscribe. Yeah, block me. Like, you don't have to. Yeah, delete the app, mate. Yeah, but he was properly unloading to me. I was in a room full of people, but guys around me kind of helped steer him out of the way. But there's some, there's some scary people in the world that it doesn't always make. The comment section demonstrates that it doesn't always make rational sense. And that's the thing I think scares me. Getting. You must feel this. Well, we're getting ever more profile. Where does that go?

[A]

Yeah, it's like you can't consider it, but you have to consider it in some ways as well. Like even just like I was telling you before, this even kind of sharing, like, where I am physically and especially when I'm in different countries, it's like, well, this is being broadcasted to, like, millions of people.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And like a stadium's like 50,000, so it's like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To conceptualize how it's insane how many people, that it's a city of people that is seeing that every time. And, like, just, just based on numbers, you can have a crazy person in amongst millions. Like. Yeah, it's very realistic.

[B]

I go as far to say one in four. One in two, maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's always. I tend to always share stuff after I've left the location, but I will always share stuff after I've left the location.

[A]

Oh, that's, that's good. Yeah.

[B]

And never my kids or my wife or anything like that. Sure.

[A]

Yeah. That's fair. The more you can understand yourself and what really makes you you, the better. Yeah, it can become.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I'll look at, like, B1M stuff and I'll be like, oh, I like how they did that, or this. But I'm never like, I want to be like B1M, because, again, it's, it's uniquely you and, and I'm uniquely me. And so, like, the further I can go in my direction and, and look around at what others are doing. I like that. I like this.

[B]

I lay in bed most nights wondering how I could be. Be more like you.

[A]

So. Yeah, well, you know, you're not the only one. All right. Yeah, it's just, it's. Yeah, yeah. What can I say? But I think the more you can understand yourself, the better you can start to, to direct your content. And so it's like with the podcast, to bring this one home here. I think this is just the format that I enjoy the most. I don't enjoy. I, I, I, I don't really want to know a lot about you going into it, because then I can just follow.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

Wherever my mind goes. Like, I don't want a roadmap because I just want to sit down and

[B]

have a genuine chat.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think it's the same conversation we'd have at lunch. Yeah, but that's just, that's what I get. That's what I, but that's what I enjoy. But there's a million different ways to do this. There's a million different formats. There's all kinds of different, different ways. Have you always, have you always been good with fitness?

[B]

Yeah, it's always been a Big part of my life. I, again, because this and this. This speaks to how introverted I am and how I like to have control of my own thing. I prefer running, swimming, going to the gym, individual sports rather than team sports.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

Which is a weird thing to say because you're supposed to come across as a team player in this world. But I've had to kind of really learn and master how to build a team and how to empower people. I'm really good at that now. It's what's made the company successful. I wasn't good at that when I started, so I've had to kind of learn that. Yeah. I've realized that. For me, again, going back to what I said about mental health, one of the things that my kind of foundation blocks is making sure I prioritize my training because it always used to be the thing that would get pushed and get slipped out of the schedule. And a few years back I was like, no, I'm going to start taking this really bloody seriously. And it's the non negotiable and I absolutely love it. I, to the point where I come to Nashville, will join a local gym. I joined a gym near my hotel for two days because the hotel gym is rubbish.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'll make sure I fit it in wherever I go. My wife knows that as well, which is amazing because most people's other halves aren't that forgiving with the gym. But my wife will be like, you need a gym session. Go. It's.

[A]

It's your time that makes you better for everybody else.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I think it's. It's like a. It's like a dog that doesn't exercise, that you don't walk. They're just terrible.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like. Well, when you get their energy out, they're better. People are the same way. I'm the same way.

[B]

If I don't get my energy out, my whole. My whole. I just think about everything better. I'm a better person.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For having done my training.

[A]

Do you. And so when you travel, everything, it's. You stay consistent.

[B]

Yeah. Bring everything with me. And it's hard because there are some days where I really don't want to do it or I've burnt the candle at too many ends. And there are some trips where we're in a remote location and it's just not possible. But I will always try and make something happen.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Yeah. It's funny, I used to. A big part of me getting into it was that when I got out of bed in the morning. This is again on the mental health stuff. I was either having to be strong husband, strong dad. When I went to work, I was having to be leader. That set the tone for the day. I was meeting customers, potential customers, people who are fans of the B1M and were meeting me for the first time wanting me to be a certain person. So actually being able to go to the gym and just stick my headphones on for two hours and focus on nothing but lifting weights was a really great thing. I now get in the gym. Sorry, sorry, can I just. Are you fret?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Watch the last video. So what do you think about Vanity High? And I'm like, well, I'm mid set right now, so can you just like leave me alone? Yeah, it's good though. It's good.

[A]

But I think to the, to the mental health point, I don't think you have to have both building blocks. I, and, and, and, and if somebody's struggling mentally, it's not that simple. It's complex. But it's like what are you doing to move your body?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What are you eating? How are you sleeping? Are you drinking water? Like those are pretty, pretty foundational building blocks. And that like, like that's the first place to look is what are your physical habits? Because that is 100% involved in whatever's going on mentally, definitely. And if, but if you have those things squared away, you're still going to be up and down. That's life. But I found it to be so much more manageable.

[B]

100%.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

100%.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I just, I make the argument making it a non negotiable makes it easier, honestly.

[B]

Yeah, it does. It's. For me it's as important as brushing my teeth, drinking water, getting enough sleep. If I do that, then we're all good. Covid was hard because in the UK we had proper lockdowns, but I kind of built myself a mini home gym. The Amazon guy was turning up with these 32 kilogram dumbbells. It's like walking up to the front door like, what the heck have you ordered? So yeah, ordering like little dumbbells every now and then. And then building up my own kind of home gym collection has been quite good. I want to build a gym in my garden. I should be looking at moving breaking news for the world. But I want some land where I can build my own home gym, which

[A]

my wife b1m video it should be.

[B]

My wife doesn't know about this yet. There's no budget or funding or Sign up for this. But I want it to happen. I also want to talk about this with you because I wanted just a bit of land to just like have an excavator on. Just to play around with.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

Because I've got to drive. I've got to drive a few of them. Like just you know just playing around. For me it's as simple as pick stuff up. Put it down again.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Like lift it around. Drop it over there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm like six years old again. So for me and my retirement plan is just to have some land with some big machines on that I can just drive for fun.

[A]

An emotional support excavator.

[B]

Let's call it that.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

You can come over. Visit the uk.

[A]

I'd love to. I really enjoy the uk.

[B]

Like the countryside especially sunny on a sunny day.

[A]

Summer.

[B]

Yeah. A few scones. Cup of tea.

[A]

Yeah. I just. Yesterday we got approval to. They're gonna teach me how to run a 700 ton excavator.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Which I'm very excited about.

[B]

Wow. Yeah.

[A]

At their training facility in Arizona.

[B]

You've been in some big buckets.

[A]

Yeah. I like big machines.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I like. I like.

[B]

We got that. Yeah.

[A]

I'm a big machine.

[B]

But the scale of you when you're standing inside a bucket. I'm like. Because I like big machines. Well whenever I take a video of big machine I'm like Aaron's gonna see this and he's gonna think it's not as big as stuff that he's seen. No.

[A]

But I. I like any machine every.

[B]

I want to come with you in one of these trips.

[A]

That would be fun. That would be fun. That would actually be brilliant. Yeah. We should work on that. I know. I think we'd have a great time. Yeah.

[B]

Great. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I. No I think that'd be a blast. Yeah. We could work out. And alone. Of course not talk to each other but still work out same time.

[B]

Um.

[A]

But I. Yeah I'm. I like those pictures. That's what I try to do is how you started.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah. But I try to because capture like conceptualizing a machine that big. If you just have a photograph of it. You don't really know to everyday person. Like I'm trying to make it make sense to my mom. You know who doesn't really have any context. But if you put a human next to it. Okay. That my brain now understands what I'm looking at.

[B]

That's so funny you say that because it's. When your parents Start talking to you about your content in an engaged way. That's when you know you've broken through.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like my. Yeah, my mom is like very much a litmus test. Whenever my mom's like, you're just so funny. I'm like, that is the best compliment I could get. That's. That's all I'm after. If my mom thinks I'm funny, I'm, I'm, I'm good, man. But there's just, there's. There's nothing better than like, for me, humor making. Like, I'm sure, like for you, your wife. Like, if you make your wife laugh, like, there's nothing better than that.

[B]

It's a rare occasion.

[A]

Yeah. Maybe it's never just loves that. Or, or maybe your.

[B]

Maybe your kids, like, oh, my son thinks I'm hilarious. My jokes are still landing with my 11 year old.

[A]

Perfect. Well, enjoy it while.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. It's like, I lost row. Yeah.

[A]

But yeah, if you can make someone laugh or someone close to you, like, enjoy what you're doing. That's just the best feeling in the world. I love that. To wrap it up, what are, what are your hopes for the book?

[B]

I'm terrified about the book. I'm gonna.

[A]

It's not out yet.

[B]

Technically, no. 21st of May, it lands and then it's coming out in the US In August. So it's gonna be in Target, Walmart, Barnes and Noble.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

Taco Bell, whatever else you guys got

[A]

over here, it's gonna be in Taco Bell.

[B]

It might be in Taco Bell. With that attitude, it's not gonna be in it. I'm terrified. Like, I've been very honest here. It's probably the most open I've been about the book, but I have written it. I thought it was good when I wrote it, and now it's been printed and delivered to my house. I've read it back and I'm like, oh, I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, but it's. The cake is baked.

[B]

The cake is baked. And you cannot change this one. This isn't like a YouTube video where you can do a re upload. This is printed and I just. My head can't imagine the book making contact with the world and being in bookshops and being liked by people. I don't know if I'm setting myself up for disappointment or kind of talking myself into, you know, managing my expectations maybe a little bit, but I've never done it before. I probably won't do it again, because they're not going to give me another book deal after this.

[A]

But it is interesting. Like, there aren't many modern books about infrastructure. Very few. And when it comes to mega projects in the world, you're kind of the guy. Like, you're one of the few, if not the only one, that's been to all of these projects.

[B]

If there were a Mega Builds book chart, I'd be number one on that, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So this is what we should do. We should create a large construction projects book chart that could win that one.

[A]

That could be cool. Well, we have the ability to do that. We can make it ourselves. But I really think it's a compelling. It's a super compelling. I'm excited to read it. I'm 100% reading it.

[B]

To lower your expectations.

[A]

No, I can't wait.

[B]

I think J.K. rowling can sleep easy, basically. Well, yeah, there's a picture section.

[A]

Good. Yeah, yeah. There has to be.

[B]

How many people have been like, are there pictures?

[A]

There has to be a picture.

[B]

Yes, for your intellect. There's a picture section.

[A]

So. But people can find it this summer in the UK and in America.

[B]

Yes. It's available in the UK from the 21st of May in all your favorite bookshops, which is wild. It's also available in the US via Blackwells, which do international shipping. Also a really cool bookshop in London who are doing international signed copies.

[A]

Wow. Very cool.

[B]

Backstory books. Yeah. And then it's gonna be in Taco

[A]

Bell, Starbucks, I can't wait.

[B]

All kinds of places.

[A]

I'll get my signed copy at Taco Bell. All right. Now it's a little. Now it's getting far fetched. Pun intended. And it's called Mega Builds.

[B]

It is.

[A]

Okay. And then for people that haven't seen your videos, they're on YouTube under B1, the number 1M.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You're pretty easy to find nowadays.

[B]

Yeah. How about you? Thank you. Have me. It's been great to be here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Obviously been an honor to talk to you because I followed you for so long and been and admirer for so long that it's. It's weird having. Yeah. It's weird meeting you in person.

[A]

Well, it's. It's like I've looked forward to this because again, there's very few people in the entire world that can relate to what I do in a certain way.

[B]

Therapy, in a way.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm glad. Yeah. That was my intent. Yeah. I'll send you the invoice. But yeah, it's there's not that many folks out there doing this in our world, so it's. It's enjoyable to talk to somebody else about their experiences, but awesome. Yeah. Fred, thanks.

[B]

Thank you.