Why Your Construction Company Needs a Brand Not Just a Logo w/ Chase Harris (DT 461)

Summary

Dirt Talk Podcast – Episode 461

Why Your Construction Company Needs a Brand, Not Just a Logo w/ Chase Harris (Fieldwork)

Date: July 16, 2026
Host: Aaron Witt (BuildWitt)
Guest: Chase Harris (Founder, Fieldwork)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the real meaning and impact of branding for construction and trade companies, moving far beyond the idea of brand as “just a logo or a website.” Aaron Witt chats with Chase Harris, founder of Fieldwork and former creative lead at BuildWitt, about the journey of building brands in the Dirt World, what culture truly looks like in contractor businesses, and why leaving culture to chance is no longer an option. The discussion is open, personal, and packed with lessons for business leaders of all sizes seeking to attract top talent, foster engagement, and create enduring legacies.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Brand vs. Logo: Brand Is a System

• Brand is not a logo or a website; it's a living system.
  "Brand comes back to leadership. It's who you are, what you stand for, your values, how you show up. It starts at the top." – Chase (45:11)

• Consistent action, not pretty visuals, is what constitutes brand.
  “A value that sounds great and is just on a website or on the wall doesn’t mean shit. It doesn’t matter if you don’t actually believe it and you’re not acting on it.” – Chase (51:21)

• Brand as an 'Operating System' for Culture:
  "It should be treated as an operating system in a way to help drive cultural change." – Chase (46:04)

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2. The Real Stakes: Why Brand Matters in Construction

• Attracting Top Talent
  “I went to work [at certain companies] purely because of their reputation, purely because of their brand, purely because they just looked badass.” – Aaron (22:06)

• Brand = Identity + Reputation:
  "It's two things. It's identity—who you are, what you stand for, how you show up in the world. But it's also reputation—it's who others say you are." – Chase (23:45)

• Early Adopters vs. The Industry:
  The most successful and admired companies in the Dirt World have invested in their brands and cultures for years, making them industry leaders while others play catch-up (20:57-21:22).

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3. Brand Workshops: The Origin & Evolution

• Facilitators, Not Dictators
  “I was not there to dictate or to tell this company what they should stand for, who they are. That is not my role. We are facilitators. We’re there to ask the questions, we’re there to help pull out what is already there...” – Chase (13:57)

• From Fumbling Steps to Industry Leaders
  Harris and Witt reflect on starting with “no idea what we were doing” (09:09) to having run over 100+ brand workshops nationwide, refining a unique approach specifically for contractors (10:07-10:34).

• Creating Alignment
  Fieldwork's process creates space for organizations to articulate (often for the first time) their real values, purpose, and what they stand for – and to make those things actionable and communicable to their teams (15:16, 80:26).

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4. Leading Through Change: BuildWitt, Fieldwork & the Power of Focus

• Business Split and Leadership Growth
  Both discuss how the split between BuildWitt (focusing on software/training) and Fieldwork (dedicated to branding/creative) was difficult but ultimately gave both sides the clarity and focus needed to thrive (29:10-33:35).

• Building a Brand—As a Business Owner and a Person
  “You’re trying to figure out where the business is going while you’re trying to figure out you as an individual.” – Aaron (34:45)
  “That’s been one of the biggest parts of my journey this past year—what do I stand for? How do I show up in the world?” – Chase (33:48)

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5. The Human Side of Brand and Culture

• Authenticity and Consistency
  “If you don’t tell your story, somebody else will. Own the narrative and shine the light on the people doing it. Make it human.” – Chase (83:59)

• Hire for Heart, Build for Purpose
  “You can’t fake care. People sniff it out, especially in this industry.” – Chase (97:35)

• Trust and Values
  “I would argue it’s worse to go put the aspirational stuff on the wall and not follow through with it... That’s the quickest way to erode trust.” – Aaron (51:26, 52:20)

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6. Branding as an Ongoing, Company-Wide Effort

• Brand Is for Every Employee, Not Just the C-Suite
  “If it’s not actually driving behavior or helping people align with how they should be acting, we haven’t done our jobs right.” – Chase (90:13)

• Investing in Brand = Investing in People
  “Our mission, our why is to help hardworking people reach their full potential. That starts with our team.” – Chase (75:07)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We just came off five years of fucking up everything we could have. Every single thing. And we've touched every stove we've come across, and we've learned that they're all fucking hot.” – Aaron (02:53)
• “Brand is a mix of identity and reputation. Identity—it’s who you are, what you stand for, it’s your beliefs… Reputation—it’s who others say you are.” – Chase (15:16 & 23:45)
• “If you don’t tell your story, somebody else will.” – Chase (83:59)
• “I think brand is one of the coolest things about business. It’s such a weapon.” – Aaron (45:03)
• “You can’t fake care. People sniff it out, especially in this industry.” – Chase (97:35)
• [On companies with bulldozers in their logo:] “If you’ve got a bulldozer in your logo, you hire Fieldwork… It’s gone. Watch out. You’ve been warned.” – Aaron & Chase (86:44–86:54)
• “It’s not about you… What they care about is really facilitating what they do, building their team… The outcome isn’t a new website.” – Aaron (96:34)
• “Every time I go on the Internet, there's a new blue collar marketing company now. That’s marketing. There’s a difference between brands.” – Aaron & Chase (91:49–91:54)

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Important Timestamps

• What Brand Really Means: 13:45–16:20, 23:45–24:53, 45:11–46:09, 90:09–91:15
• BuildWitt/Fieldwork Origin and Split: 25:05–34:45, 54:46–65:10
• Workshops & Process Evolution: 09:33–11:25, 80:26–84:16, 92:08–92:54
• Culture & Values in Practice: 15:16–17:30, 51:04–53:59, 75:07–77:34
• Hiring & Talent War Stories: 22:06–23:34, 40:57–43:57
• Handling Change & Leadership Growth: 29:10–35:17, 65:42–76:25
• BRAND as Operator/Field-level Influence: 89:03–91:15
• Differentiation: Brand vs. Marketing: 91:49–92:54, 101:24–102:13

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Flow & Takeaways for Listeners New to the Podcast

• The hosts break down branding not as a cosmetic afterthought but as an operating system that underpins culture, alignment, and team performance in construction/trades companies.
• Building a real brand requires honest introspection, not marketing jargon—clear articulation of values and stick-to-itiveness from leadership down to the field level.
• The episode is both autobiographical (highlighting BuildWitt and Fieldwork’s development) and a practical roadmap for leaders who want to take brand and culture from abstract concepts to action.
• Not everyone needs to be a brand “genius," but everyone needs to show up, care consistently, and bring their team along for the journey.
• Real branding requires time, humility, and the willingness to address uncomfortable realities about leadership, culture, and growth.

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Episode Summary in a Nutshell

This episode offers an unvarnished look at why brand is not a side project but the source code for business culture, growth, and reputation in construction and the trades. Aaron Witt and Chase Harris serve up hard-won lessons on leadership, company identity, and why the companies that ignore brand leave culture—and ultimately their future—up to chance. Fieldwork and BuildWitt’s journeys mirror the industry’s wider evolution, revealing that when you invest in brand and people, you build a foundation for lasting impact far beyond a fancy new logo.

Transcript

[Aaron]

This episode of the Dirt Talk podcast is with Chase Harris of Fieldwork. Chase is the founder of Fieldwork, a branding and marketing agency built exclusively for the trades. He's also a former creative lead at BuildWit who helped shape the brands of some of the most recognized contractors in America. He bought the creative side of the business he helped build, becoming an overnight business owner. And then he spent a year figuring out who he was as a leader before figuring out where the company was going. In this episode, he reveals why brand is not a logo or a website, it's really a system. And why the contractors ignoring it aren't just losing talent, they're leaving their culture to chance. Chase started at buildwit with a message on LinkedIn asking if I needed some design help. To say I am incapable as a designer is putting it lightly. So of course I said, come on down. We started with some part time work, then he started to do a little bit more and then was like, well, I'm going off to fancy design, so on and so forth here in New York. And I said, wait a minute, there's an opportunity here. And fortunately for both of us, he trusted me on that. He took the bull by the horns. He then spent years rebranding top notch companies in the construction industry like and Emory, Sapp and Sons, like Sargent Corporation, like C.W. matthews, like Veit. You can go down the list. He's had his paws on them all. And then when it got time for us to sell the business, he became the clear, only natural choice of a buyer and it has worked fantastically. So funny enough, he has never been on the podcast before. We've never sat down in this room and have talked a little bit more about that story and have gotten his perspective on brand, but we finally made it happen. I had a blast. Here's the episode. Again. I'm glad we struggled when we did. Like, I still don't look at it with a happy face on, but there we learned some really good lessons that I think are gonna stick with with us now. And now it's just like, it's actually the timing is crazy because we just one. I think the dirt world is starting to actually get ready for this, is starting to actually be open. I think we've been early to the market the entire time, but now they're like, wait a minute, we might need to do something different here. What we're doing is not working. What else is out there? So you've got that. Driven partially by historic demand for infrastructure, which I don't necessarily think is a good thing, but it's there regardless.

[Chase Harris]

By that, you're talking about. We're talking about training in general, the

[Aaron]

need for just people. Like, a different approach for people. Yeah. It's culture, training, all of the things. So there's that. There's. We just came off five years of fucking up everything we could have. We could have every single thing. And we've touched every stove we've come across, and we've learned that they're all fucking hot.

[Chase Harris]

So many lessons learned.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And not that we're gonna stop learning. Like, not that there's not lessons to learn going forward, but we've learned some, like, really big ones, I think. So there's. That. There's, like.

[Chase Harris]

Instead of putting your hand in the oven, you'll just touch.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Or we'll look at it first and do, like, a visual inspection. And, like, well, it's growing. It's glowing red hot. And when we've touched it the other 43 times, it has been hot. So maybe it's hot. At least have a conversation first. So there's that. The brand is bigger than ever, which is incredible. And then there's these new development tools that allow you to go faster than ever. So it's like, holy smokes. We've got all of these really tasty ingredients in this mixing bowl. I think we can actually make something pretty neat now.

[Chase Harris]

I think another piece of that, too, is the focus.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

Just. Well, the focus is like, the past year or two for. For you guys and for us, it's just been incredible.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

And I think it's allowed us to grow, do better work, like, get clear on how we serve. And I think I've seen that just with y', all, too.

[Aaron]

Yeah. I. Yeah, I'm. I'm. I'm. Trust me, I've. Since we. Since we split apart, I'm like, every. Every month, I'm like, thank God we did it when we did it, because I don't. I think we were headed in a. Like, it would have become a big. Had we not done it when we did it would have become a major problem is how I look at it.

[Chase Harris]

So.

[Aaron]

I agree. Not that I'm just. I'm.

[Chase Harris]

That's just.

[Aaron]

The fun thing about business is, like, you do look on the. You look at all the mistakes you've made, but then there's also, like. It also just works out.

[Chase Harris]

There's a path.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chase Harris]

And, I mean, it's cliche, but hindsight's 20 20. Like, oh, we were supposed to be Here. Ultimately it didn't feel like it at the time.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

But it worked out.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Yeah. That was one of those things. It's like that just worked out. It couldn't have worked out more perfect looking back.

[Chase Harris]

Yes. In the thick of it.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

But it was a lot of growth for me personally.

[Aaron]

For you probably more than anybody else. I had it easy on that one. I paid my dues the years prior.

[Chase Harris]

You've been through it before. I actually had a lot of conversations with people. You know, how has it been starting your business? And you know, there's a long list of lessons learned with it. But, you know, one thing is I'd imagine it'd be hard to start your own company from the ground up and build is a different challenge when it's starting your own company and buying it all for the first time and having to make sure it runs smoothly.

[Aaron]

Like you're not starting the race within the starting block. You're starting it like midway.

[Chase Harris]

Flying. Yeah. You're flying. You're like, jump into another plane. Both have to be the same speed.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

You know, but obviously so, so grateful for it and you know, had such. Such support from you, from Kara, from Randy, you know, and some mentors on my side just to help guide and.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

And help me with the transition.

[Aaron]

So you. Yeah. To give people some of the context. You started with us like part time while you were still in school.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

You messaged me on LinkedIn. You're like, hey, if you need help with design, let me know.

[Chase Harris]

That was it. I mean, I'm still biggest advocate for LinkedIn out there. Yeah. Yeah, it was. I saw your posting just these awesome dirt pictures just of a world that I ever saw before, you know, the people in it, but also just these awesome machines and. And obviously knew each other from. From high school. But you know, I said, I don't really know what this is or what he's doing, but it's different. It's cool. There's. There's a story here and, you know, I'm going to reach out and see if he ever needs some help that. And you're happy to.

[Aaron]

I mean, the world you were in at the time could not have been

[Chase Harris]

more, oh, so different.

[Aaron]

You were in New York design land.

[Chase Harris]

Y. Yeah, well, I worked. Yeah. Agencies in Arizona, you know.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

That. Lottery clients, you know, you know, B2C. It was in New York, you know, media. So completely different worlds. And you know, looking back, I think that was actually part of the draw is that it was something new you know, there weren't a lot of agencies or content or marketing around, you know, people who are building our world. And so it drew me in. And here we are seven years later.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And you. It was, it was part time for quite a while. And then you got done with school.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And if memory serves me right, you were looking at other more, you know, fancy businesses. Rightly so. Because we were nothing at the time.

[Chase Harris]

Because it was just you, you, Dan and. And shell.

[Aaron]

Angel.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah, an angel. That's right. Yeah, that's right.

[Aaron]

So it wasn't a whole lot there,

[Chase Harris]

you know, in full transparency. It was, you know, maybe a stopgap. Like, hey, this is interesting. This is neat. You know, started. Started part time, you know, worked out well when I was in school and doing my post grad program in design. But then slowly but surely I kept hearing the mission, you know, spent more time with you, you know, our clients out in the field. To that first workshop with, with Dan.

[Aaron]

What was the first one?

[Chase Harris]

Bemis.

[Aaron]

Oh, Bemis. Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

And it was Bemis. And then Kaylee, I think was next in North Dakota.

[Aaron]

We, we could not have been making that up more than we were.

[Chase Harris]

Oh, we had. I'll say we. But I had no idea what I was doing, so. Yeah, none of us did.

[Aaron]

Good intentions, but we didn't know what you were doing.

[Chase Harris]

Absolutely. Yeah. Evan, if you're listening, the truth comes out here.

[Aaron]

They still. But they still use the branding.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah, yeah. It's still got the website and absolutely

[Aaron]

everything we did for them.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah, we did an anniversary project for them not too long ago.

[Aaron]

Okay. Yeah. So, yeah, Bemis. Kle Reed was an early one.

[Chase Harris]

Mike Reed.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

And you know, one thing we had no idea, or I had no idea what I was doing in the beginning, but every workshop, every engagement just got a little bit better. And I think for me too, recognizing this was the biggest lesson that I can ever learn in a classroom. The brand is not about the website or the logo. It comes back to the people, the culture, the leadership, you know, the buy in and just kept getting better, better and better at it and realizing, hey, maybe we can build a website. Maybe we can support in these other ways.

[Aaron]

Yeah, we, I mean, we came up with the workshop concept, I think, to just get everybody in the same damn room.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And to just talk stuff through to make our jobs easier. Because going back and forth was a pain in the ass. And then since, I mean, how many have you done since like.

[Chase Harris]

So we've total. We've done over a hundred.

[Aaron]

Over a hundred.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah, I was. I figured this would come up. I was thinking for. For me, I want to say it's. It's a little over 50 crazy since we started.

[Aaron]

And I tell people, I mean, there you've been involved in more of these branding projects for civil contractors and dirt world companies than anybody else at this point. You've somehow become.

[Chase Harris]

Somehow.

[Aaron]

Somehow become the expert here. I'm looking around like, why is it me?

[Chase Harris]

Well, I mean, I think that goes back to you and obviously to build with and the mission, but I mean, yeah, there was no one doing it. No, you know, you saw that. You know, this is a critical industry. It's essential to work. That happens. No one was really paying attention to it and no one was serving it in this way. Not just with the storytelling side and, you know, content, but also with branding. You know, how do they have a website to attract great people? How do they, you know, have a website to showcase themselves for in the new business side? And winning. Winning bids and projects and so kind of just figure it out as we went.

[Aaron]

And it was fun, I mean, because we really did just make it up. I mean, it was. We were. We were in a dark room without a flashlight, just kind of feeling around.

[Chase Harris]

I know. Now everybody knows.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah, but that, but that, like that, I think is partially why we are where we are, is because we've never been doing it someone else's way. We've never really been looking to someone else as the blueprint. We've just. We've done it the way we think it should be done, which I think has served us really well long term.

[Chase Harris]

Absolutely well. And I think a big part of that is the humility. Like, hey, we don't have all the answers. Hey, we don't have the perfect formula yet, if you will. So we're going to just keep getting better every time. And I think that mindset which started with you has just helped us get better, not just in our approach, but also the actual impact that we have with these companies that trust us to come in and help them shape their values, their purpose, what they stand for. And hopefully, you know, it's still pride and, you know, excitement with their team.

[Aaron]

What did the brand workshop look like in the early days? Because I wasn't involved in too many of them. You kicked me out pretty quick.

[Chase Harris]

Did I? I guess I did, yeah. I didn't.

[Aaron]

Which was a good call. I don't have the patience to sit

[Chase Harris]

in a room half a day. I think that was it, actually. Dan and I sitting there and you Were over there, you know, twiddling your thumbs or doing something.

[Aaron]

Yeah, I just, I don't know. I mean, not my place.

[Chase Harris]

You would come in with just these great, you know, questions and engagement. But I think that was, yeah, pretty quickly became just Dan and I for a bit. But, you know, it started really with, hey, what are we trying to do here? What's the outcome? And you know, a big part of that was usually the website, but realized that it really came back to their culture. You know, how do you define culture? What does that actually mean? And I would say only recently for myself do we have a very clear point of view and definition for that. But at the time it was pretty simple. It was, hey, why do you get up in the morning and went back to Simon Sinek? You know, start with why and how do you, how do you show up in the world? You know, what do you actually offer? How do you do it differently than anybody else? And what are your values? How does your team act?

[Aaron]

Yeah, it's more of like a treasure hunt than anything else. You're, you're really just teasing out what already exists and clarifying it so they can communicate it to their team and to new people.

[Chase Harris]

And I would say even the first, the first couple of, maybe the first year or the first few workshops, that was a big shift for me that I had to learn. I was not there to dictate or to tell this company what they should stand for, who they are. That is not my role. We are facilitators. We're there to ask the questions. We're there to help pull out what is already there, what's already felt, how the team feels on a job site, what they think of leadership. Capturing that spirit, that was our goal. And in many ways, it's harder than just coming in and saying, hey, this is what I think is going to sound the best. And so that was more for my, you know, my personal growth along the way. And we've gotten better at that.

[Aaron]

That was one of the things I think we had to beat out. Beat out of you from the more traditional design background.

[Chase Harris]

Yep, I had to learn that one.

[Aaron]

Yeah, it's not. I know best, you know, it's, it's, because it's, it's, it's, it's very like a great brand is very personal. It's, it's very intimate. It's it and it really, with these companies, they're still oftentimes founder led, founder driven. And, and so it's really, the company is a representation and manifestation of that one individual, they're typically the key that unlocks a lot of it.

[Chase Harris]

And what gets really fun is what happens when you start to do secession planning, when they start looking at the next generation or it starts to scale. What does the culture look like beyond just the founder? And ultimately, the way I look at that, in the way that we do it at field work is, you know, brand is a mix of identity and reputation. But identity, it's who you are, it's what you stand for, it's your beliefs, it's why you show up. You know, that's, that comes back to a human, that comes back to an individual, that comes back to a leader. And what we found is many ways, you know, companies or leaders have not asked those questions before or considered those questions for themselves. And so having a space, a time to come in and ask that and then say, hey, it's not just me, but this is actually shared by this group of, of people. That's what culture ends up being. You know, the shared set of values, behaviors, you know, a shared mission. Fortunately, that's the good stuff.

[Aaron]

I, I, I think we picked a good world for that, though. It's, you're dealing with, you're kind of dealing with a loaded hand in a way that is, there's this tremendous purpose that all these companies share. So you don't have to go that far to find it. Because it's so obvious within what the work, within the work that they do.

[Chase Harris]

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, running water, you know, lights turning on, like there is such a clear tie there. But also, I think the, the kind of layer, deeper than that is how do they show up for their team. And we've just been so fortunate to work with such incredible leaders and organizations where will go into a workshop. And it's not uncommon for there to be tears. You know, these people who have worked there for, you know, years, decades, in some cases saying, you know, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for this person or this company. And how do you, how do you pull that, you know, that heart and that emotion out? How do you bring that into a brand? How do you communicate that externally? And that's, you know, one of the, you know, our privileges and something that I, I really love about what we do because it's there, it's felt, it's just really hard to articulate that.

[Aaron]

But this has been the cool thing about being able to create this whole process too. Like, if we were serving another industry, most other industries, they kind of come to you and they tell the ad agency, this is what we want and then you just do the work. Whereas we've always been serving these companies. They want a desired outcome that is like, we know we need to do something different from an image standpoint. We know we need to better communicate who we are to new hires. We know we need to transition to another generation, but we don't really know what that means. And so it's almost. I was talking to Dan about this just the other day too. It was, it, it's, it's as much like when you're meeting with these companies first, it's as much of an education process.

[Chase Harris]

Absolutely.

[Aaron]

As it is a sales process. Like you're, you're bringing them through how even works. And to bring them through how this even works, we've had to learn it along the way, which is, it's just, it's really, really unique.

[Chase Harris]

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean and this is something that we said at buildwith and we've continued. But we're the guides.

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Chase Harris]

We are not the heroes, the contractors, the companies, the leaders that we serve, they're the ones doing the hard work. We are the experts when it comes to this process, this, you know, branding, articulating culture, websites. We're there to educate, to facilitate, to be the guides and shine a light on them. And that has served, I'll say me very well, but also, you know, the business and, and our approach, it's, it's,

[Aaron]

and, and it's, it's generated a phenomenal result too. Like there's, I mean most of the industries, top brands I would say, that are not the long standing granites of the world. You've, you've put your fingerprints on in some way at this point. I mean you can go down the list. There's Goodfellow, there's Veit, there's Ess, there's Sargent, there's C.W. massey.

[Chase Harris]

Well, I think that's putting a little, a little bit too much on, on me, but definitely the team.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

But you touch in some way like

[Aaron]

that, that pedigree at this point. Cause that is the tough thing with brand too. You do all this work now, you don't even see it sometimes for years.

[Chase Harris]

Takes years.

[Aaron]

Yeah, years. And so even today I'll see randomly a brand we worked with back in the day and it was like, I'll think all the time, like, damn, wow, that's pretty cool. Like we played a role in that.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah, maybe a small role, but we played some small part in that actually. I think something to maybe call out within that is the common denominator among all of those incredible organizations. It does come back to the leaders behind it. They saw the vision, they had that growth mindset, they knew there was a better way to show up and care for their people, do things in the industry. And obviously a lot of that came back to you and you know what you were sharing. But that's the common denominator. And where we've also figured out where our process really works and where we thrive is when we have that buy in and that engagement from leaders, from those growth minded leaders who want to do better, who want to care for their people, who want to build a high performing organization.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And along the way in many ways you've been working with the early adopters as a result. Yeah, because that's not the norm in the, it's becoming more and more so in this world. But that's also been the cool thing is all these projects have been with the early adopters. It's been with the minority that are on the leading edge that are now, I think driving a big part of the change.

[Chase Harris]

Right. And you can also see that, that difference of where some of these other companies are starting now versus where those early adopters are. They are the industry leaders, they do have that brand presence, they brand presence, they do have that reputation, you know, and does make a difference. And I think the other maybe big, big call out there is because there have been a few where we've come in, help them articulate what they stand for, help them with some branding, but maybe it hasn't been carried through. And that consistency is really important with this as well. You know, it's not just a one and done brand culture. This type of work as something that you're always going to be having to do. And it again goes back to the leadership making it a priority.

[Aaron]

And it makes a huge difference within the business. Like I, I mean look at, look at build with what we've done with brand and shit. But I went to work, I distinctly Remember I chose two very large companies, 100% based on their, 100% based on their brand. I just, I would drive to work one day working for another company. I saw this company working on a bridge. They just looked badass. I'd never heard of them, I knew nothing about them. But at the career fair coming up, first booth I went to, that was the company I worked for the next year. And then there was this other company that's not very friendly to us unfortunately. So I don't want to keep Giving them airtime. But they paint things black and yellow. Everybody knows who they are. I have a ton of respect for the company and what they do, but I don't, for whatever reason, they're just, they're not very friendly folks. Um, but I went to work for them purely because of their reputation, purely because of their brand, purely because they just looked badass. Yep. And when they come into town to do a project, they're not, you know, shy about it. They kick the door and they'd be like, let's fudge go. Let's build a bridge. And I'm like, I wanted to be a part of that.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

Hell yeah. Let's do it.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Yeah. To young Aaron. There's nothing cooler than that.

[Chase Harris]

Right.

[Aaron]

And who doesn't want to be cool, who doesn't want to be part of a winning team, who doesn't want to look good? And it's been, it's been, that's been underappreciated in this world for a very long time. But it's a principle that's time tested.

[Chase Harris]

Yes. All over generations.

[Aaron]

Generations. So it's not what we're doing is not a new concept.

[Chase Harris]

No.

[Aaron]

It's just new within this world.

[Chase Harris]

Well, and that's where it goes back to that definition of brand. It's two things. It's identity, who you are, what you stand for, how you show up in the world. But it's also reputation. It's who others say you are. And so, you know, you have a lot more control over the first part of that. But you can still manage your reputation, your image, how you show up being an awesome looking place. People want to work. You know, you talk about attracting the right talent. You got to compete and not even just within this industry. You're competing with so many other industries out there now.

[Aaron]

Yeah, everybody else. Yeah, everybody else. And there's. You can't put lipstick on a pig that doesn't do well. But there, there's a lot of sound logic to look good, play good. Like any winning team out there, what do they look like? They are put together, they are tidy. They have a very distinct image. Because that is a big part of it.

[Chase Harris]

Absolutely. Well, and that's why it is those, it's both pieces. It's not just the, the image and the reputation. It's. You also have to back it up with the action. It goes back to who you are and following through on that.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

So, yeah, you're absolutely right.

[Aaron]

So that was. You did that for quite a few years. These brand Workshops. What was like your title back in the day? What were you doing?

[Chase Harris]

Oh, gosh, I think it was started as just graphic designer.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

And then creative lead, Creative guy, Director. Creative guy. I don't.

[Aaron]

I don't know what you were doing.

[Chase Harris]

Quite. Quite a few titles.

[Aaron]

But you. You began with us, what, in your early 20s? I was in my early 20s.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah. Yeah, it was. Yeah, I want to say it was 24. 23 or 24.

[Aaron]

Yeah. So, yeah, pretty early. Early 20s. You. I talk you into coming over here full time, and you did not going down the New York, New York pathway. You. You stick with us for as. Like from me, you Chell, Angel Dan, sitting in a Nashville Airbnb and figuring out what our mission is, doing our brand workshop.

[Chase Harris]

I mean, that was still. That's a cool airbnb.

[Aaron]

You were there at our OG Brand workshop. I know where it is.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

That's. I need to buy it and put a plaque out one day. The og. It's like the HP Garage, but less. Less of a big deal. But from. From our brand workshop to doing all of this for companies to. Then over the years, we built a pretty significant team that executed all of this to a degree that we couldn't even dream about.

[Chase Harris]

Way more talented than me.

[Aaron]

Yeah, just.

[Chase Harris]

I mean, the work that.

[Aaron]

I went to a website this morning trying to find a guy and I looked at, I'm like, damn, this is really tidy. I scrolled down to the bottom field work. I'm like, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

[Chase Harris]

Probably wasn't me. That was definitely the team behind.

[Aaron]

Yeah, no, it's, It's, It's. It's an amazing team effort. And then along the way, we started to get into some other stuff. So that was the primary business with the brand side of things being a majority of revenue and web and then media, I think those were kind of the buckets at the time.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah, media. Media was a big part of it. Brand and. And web and then started to have some other areas, but it was really those core. Those Core three.

[Aaron]

Yep. They all worked in concert.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

They were all kind of the same thing. Very few companies went with one or the other. You had to do it all.

[Chase Harris]

And again, we didn't know that time. We kind of just figured it out and that's how it, you know, ended up working. Hey, all of a sudden we have a full service agency.

[Aaron]

It was like, yeah. And I think I started with media, but then it's like, well, what are you gonna do with all of it? Well, first place is a Website. Well, okay, you have to build a website. But then if the website doesn't look very good, like, you have to put more than pictures on a website. You have to explain who the heck you are. And so I think that that naturally just merged all three of them together. And then it's like, well, we don't wanna go build a website with shitty images.

[Chase Harris]

Right.

[Aaron]

We can go, can go do this much better than anyone else, frankly, like, because I, I, I think we could. And I think you guys still can do it better than anyone else.

[Chase Harris]

Best images and content out there. I still feel confident saying that.

[Aaron]

By a mile. By a mile. So I think that was the natural progression. But then we started to get into some other stuff with build, with leaders, with dirt world, with training now improve. And that started to, then that put us on a path. Like, once the toothpaste was out of that tube, it was not going back into the tube.

[Chase Harris]

Nope.

[Aaron]

So we were running those two projects, two experiments in tandem at a certain point in time.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah. In tandem with the agency and kind of the traditional part of the business.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

And I think that was, there were a lot of lessons learned on all sides there. Boy, were there on all sides. You know, looking back, we talked about this a little bit. I think the biggest thing comes back to focus, you know, and it's easy to see it on the flip side. But, you know, when we were able to just focus, hey, this is what we do best. How much it helped us, how much it let us run, how we were able to improve our process. And I know you felt the same thing on your side, but at the time, you also kind of needed to, to figure it out. Is this something worth pursuing?

[Aaron]

Yeah, it was. Yeah. I don't think we could have done it another way because we needed the core business to enable the experimentation in a way. Like, and that was, it was really messy, but that was the only way to do it like that. That is the core of innovation. You go throw stuff against the wall and you see what sticks. And that's why most people don't do it. And I don't blame them. Like, I don't blame most businesses for not really doing new stuff because people

[Chase Harris]

don't like to fail.

[Aaron]

Oh. And it's just painful. It's messy, it hurts people. It just wastes money. I mean, I can go down the list. It's just, it creates a mess, but it's the only way to do it. I haven't seen another way to do it. And so it like that core business did enable us to experiment and, and, and move and shift in some ways gracefully, other ways not so gracefully. But it got us then to a position where we're like, what's the future? Well, it's this. But these two things no longer can really coexist. Like, it's not in either, it's not in either team's best interest here. So then it got to the point where the decision was so obvious to split the two that we then, I mean, we didn't even really deliberate on the decision. Once Randy brought it up, we were just like, yeah.

[Chase Harris]

I remember when I first first heard it, obviously it was a huge, huge shock, you know, being at buildwood for so many years and, you know, playing, you know, a part or watching these other areas with Dirt World and, and with, you know, the software side and training and obviously playing a role in the creative side, it was weird initially to think about how can these things be split up.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

And that shock was a lot for me in the beginning. But as soon as I sat with it, it was so clear, like, oh, this does make sense. It's the right move for the team on the creative side. It's the right move on the Software side and BuildWit and became pretty apparent soon after. So, yeah, I'm not surprised to hear that, you know, in your conversations. But again, it's always right after where it becomes maybe, ah, that makes sense. You know, that clarity comes out.

[Aaron]

Sure. And well, from. And you've learned this, I'm sure too, from a leadership standpoint. You've had the luxury of processing before. You tell people stuff.

[Chase Harris]

Oh, yeah.

[Aaron]

So. And you tell them something, you're like, why is this a big deal? It's like, well, they haven't processed it. You've processed it for weeks now to get to this decision. You have to let them process it too, to get somewhere.

[Chase Harris]

I'm still learning that lesson, Aaron, but you're right. Well, and it's going through this whole process and majority of starting business, figuring out with field work and the transition from BuildWit, how much appreciation now I have for you, for Dan, for, you know, decisions that were made in the past at builtwood and understanding. It's usually not black and white. There's usually a lot more context there. It's usually not an easy decision.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

I think that only comes with having to go through it yourself and starting a business and recognizing. Yeah, it's hard.

[Aaron]

That's leadership, though. Yeah. And I think it's, it's the coolest game you can Play. But it's, it's not for everybody.

[Chase Harris]

No.

[Aaron]

And it is a lot because, yeah, you, and you can sit there and defend your decisions all day. Sometimes people still won't understand them. And that's okay, like, as long as you know you're making the decision that you believe is right for the organization, for the team overall. And sometimes stuff just isn't popular because you're acting on behalf of the team, not an individual. And sometimes, like, there's few scenarios in which everybody wins equally. Some people are going to win more than others, some people are going to lose out in certain decisions. And so you're always going to have this push and pull within, but you as the leader, you've got to be like, I don't know what to tell you. This is where we need to go. And I'd love for you to be along with it, but I'm not here to push you.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah. And I think what you just shared underscores the importance of as leaders and individuals having a very clear compass or North Star.

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Chase Harris]

And that we'll get to the business side in just a second. But I think, you know, what do you, as Aaron, believe? What is guiding your decisions? What is that right and wrong. And that's something, frankly, you know, I, I've thought about a little bit before, but now with field work has become so important, has been one of the biggest parts of my journey this past year is, hey, what do I stand for? How do I show up in the world? You know, how am I making these decisions? What my, what's my litmus test?

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

And you know, for me, a lot of what I come back to has been the stoics and how they approach leadership and just showing up in the world. But, you know, you have to know that for yourself. And then at the same time, same time or once that's figured out, you also have to know, what is that North Star? What's that vision for the company? Where is build weight going? Where is fields work going? Obviously that could be applied to any organization because that's how you can ultimately decide, hey, is this the right move? Is this aligned where, where we want to be and with our values?

[Aaron]

Well, and it's. I think you've been within the same game I've been playing as well. That is like you're trying to figure out where the business is going while you're trying to figure out you as an individual. And like I had to figure out who I was as a man. I'm still figuring it out. But As I was doing this while I was trying to build a business, I'm trying to figure out who I am. And those two things, they many times clash.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah, it's not the smoothest.

[Aaron]

It's not to make excuses, but it is a weird phenomenon that is trying to figure out who you are think that's foundational. I think I've thought a lot about this, like intuition and feeling within and listening to that intuition and feeling within. Even if you can't really fully articulate why or even if you can't justify it, like, so not everything needs a why. Not everything needs an explanation. You feel strongly for a reason, whatever that is, lean into that. Like that, I think is where it's real, real, real special. And that, thank God, I, I was able to do really effectively early on, I think, focusing on the dirt world, had I not. I mean, I, I look back on stuff that I told people, like from a sales company. Like, I was like, who the fuck did I think I was back? But I was, I, I, I don't know what it was, but I was just. And I, I'm still, I still am in a. More n. Convicted. Like, this is the way. This is how we do it. I'm not doing it another way. And the amazing thing though is when you come in with that degree of confidence and that degree of confidence is aligned with what's in everybody's best interest, it creates something really substantial and really, really special. Like even a small thing is I've always owned my photographs. I'll license them to you. But ownership me? I've never once given away ownership of our photographs, ever. Not mine, not mine, ever. I want to own my work. And that is not traditional. Almost everything else is the opposite way. You, they give you the right to use your shit. But from the very beginning, that didn't make sense to me. And I just, I just told people this is how it is. And it was an argument almost every time. But I was like, I'm not doing it then if it's yours. And it's, it seems stupid, but that was just one of those small things that was really damn important to me. I want to be fully invested in the work that I'm doing. If I'm not fully in, you're not going to get the best fucking product. And that's what's. It's in our best interest here.

[Chase Harris]

Well, I think that intuition is so important, recognizing that. And I think you learned, and I've learned too, when we don't listen to the intuition more Often than not, it's damn, why didn't I trust myself there?

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

I think the thing to watch out for, and this is where I've tried to be more aware, is trust my gut, but also recognizing there are certain things that I don't know best.

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Chase Harris]

How do you pair that with humility? How do you pair that confidence, that, you know, gut instinct, that empathy with also a healthy level of, of humility? If, like, hey, maybe this person does know completely and that's, you know, there's no perfect answer or perfect equation there, but I think the responsibility of every leader to recognize that, and the only way you know that is by being in tune with yourself, your values, you know, being able to try and explain, hey, this is where that gut feeling is coming from. I'm going to stick with it.

[Aaron]

But I think gut feeling and hubris are two different things. Like, I think gut feeling is pretty extraordinary, is pretty highly evolved, is pretty accurate, but I think you can confuse it with ego, hubris with, with delusion, and I think that's where it can lead you astray.

[Chase Harris]

It can be a very thin line between those. Yes, those things.

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Chase Harris]

Especially if you've had a ton of success. If things have been working really well, you know, it can be, you know, that line gets even more narrow. Yeah.

[Aaron]

Well, and, and, and you and I both are strongly opinionated in those things. And we, we were both a pain each other's ass for, for so long, like, just, just an absolute pain. I was, I know I was a pain in your ass and you were pain in my ass.

[Chase Harris]

I feel the same. That's why you're like, hey, maybe you don't go on the workshops anymore.

[Aaron]

Yeah. But ultimately, every time I told Dan, I'm like, why does it. This have to be a discussion? Like, can he just, can he just go with it, man?

[Chase Harris]

Well, I've also, I've definitely learned. Learned along the way there too. But, you know, ultimately I do. I think it helped make. Made us both better, at least. Definitely made me better.

[Aaron]

100%.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And, and, yeah, and, and, and, but, but I think we also, through that, had a healthy respect for what one another did. Like, you really did let me run in my lane, and I, for the most part, let you completely run in your lane because it's like, he's doing stuff I couldn't even dream of, man. This is not my world. But I knew, I knew we needed it. We needed somebody to do it well.

[Chase Harris]

And that's something I just, I really want to say that I'm so grateful for because I think it goes back to that decision. I'm. Do I go the big agency routes or do I join a small little startup, scrappy team? And that ability to actually create change, to influence change in a business with our clients, like, was so much greater here and at. And at BuildWit and an opportunity that, you know, I likely never would have had for many, many years if I went somewhere else. And so that's something that I've reflected on. I'm so, so grateful for and so, so pivotal to who I am now and how I've grown. So just thank you for trusting me and, and through all of that.

[Aaron]

Well, likewise. Thanks for trusting me. I didn't. Wasn't a whole lot to show for it when you jumped in. I had a conversation yesterday with somebody. He called me up and he's like, I need to hire a good project manager. I was like, welcome to the fucking club, dude. Everybody needs to hire a good project.

[Chase Harris]

If you know one, let me know.

[Aaron]

Yeah, like, dive into the haystack. Start looking for that needle, because that's what you're looking for. And we started talking more and more and more. And, you know, he's a small company wanting to grow. And I think the problem is, like, how do I, you know, I'll pay well, but how do I compete with these much bigger companies? Like, of course the bigger companies are going to win. I'm like, well, yes and no ending branding. But I quickly first went to vision and opportunity. Yeah, like, you're not just offering them the ability to be a project manager. You're offering them the ability to go potentially build a division and to go create something. And that's something the big companies can offer. And that, to the right person, is really compelling and really enriching. Like, if they can support their family financially through this, but also really create a difference in the world. There is. There are a few things that actually compete with that. And the ability to make a difference at a big company. Oh, it's really hard. It's really hard. By design. They don't really want you making a big difference. They just want you delivering. Just deliver. Just deliver. Just deliver. And there is some of that within a small business, too. Just blocking and tackling. But within small business, there is so much more opportunity for creativity. Yeah, it's so much fun.

[Chase Harris]

Well, and yeah, you're. You're absolutely right. I mean, that. That is ultimately why and how I ended up at BuildWith. Because of your vision. Yeah. And, you know, it's something that I've. I've firmly believed in. And I don't know, I think you still say making the dirt world a better place. I don't know if we do okay and if the exact mission has changed a little bit with training. But, you know, that is something that always resonated with me and not. Not just me, but the industry. It was so clear, so impactful of, hey, we exist to make this industry better. But it's not just the industry. It's. It starts with the team. It starts with you as an individual.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

And painting that vision for a leader, project manager, whoever it is, is the responsibility, I'd say, of a leader, you know, leadership team, but also the opportunity to show what it is.

[Aaron]

It's a tremendous opportunity for any leader and that it goes to the branding conversation. It's like, if I'm joining as a flagger on a. At a paving company, why am I here? And I know a job is, yeah, I need a job, I need income. But, like, especially this next generation coming up, why am I here? What am I doing here? Where are we going? And if you're not telling me that.

[Chase Harris]

Mm.

[Aaron]

Do I really have a reason to stick around other than money? And do you really. Do you think you're getting the most out of people if they're just there for money? Do you think that's the best business strategy? No, it's not. But that's. That's the strategy. A lot of organizations, like, let's just keep paying people more money, just enough money to keep them, but it's. So you're leaving so much on the table.

[Chase Harris]

So much on the table. There's. I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of studies out there. There was one. I can't remember if it was LinkedIn or Meta, but, you know, the power of investing in culture and brands, and ultimately the result of that is an engaged team. And it was like, leads to 20% increase in profitability and like 25% decrease or improvement in retention. Like, that's the power of it. And like, your team gets excited, they're fired up to go to work, to build some awesome projects, to, like, you know, to show up every day and actually make a difference. But that doesn't just happen. It. You have to be intentional with how you're telling that story, how you're communicating it and what that looks like. Not just in general, you know, for every contractor, hey, you know, helping make sure power stays on and, you know, et cetera. But what does that look like specifically at your company with your team. How do you make that personal to them?

[Aaron]

Yeah, and that. I think that's the fun part about it. Yeah. I think brand is one of the coolest things about business.

[Chase Harris]

Oh, man, I love it.

[Aaron]

Yeah. I think it's phenomenal, man. Like, it's such a weapon.

[Chase Harris]

I've gotten to learn this, and we as a team have gotten to learn this and kind of come back to some core principles with it. And the, you know, the first one that we start with is it comes back to leadership. Brand comes back to leadership. It's who you are, what you stand for, your values, how you show up. It starts at the top. And the second big, you know, big takeaway or piece is that your brand is inherently tied to your culture. It's inherently tied to how people show up for each other, how they show up on job sites, you know, are they keeping, you know, equipment cabs clean. Like, that is the standard. That is, you know, your values. That comes back to your brand or your brand plays a role in influencing that behavior. And that's, you know, that's the big opportunity, and that's where we've shifted, too. And it's not just brand as something that looks pretty. It's not just a logo. We're well past that.

[Aaron]

Yeah. It's.

[Chase Harris]

It should be treated as an operating system in a way to help drive cultural change.

[Aaron]

Oh, and I think our brand, like, at Dirt World, is a great opportunity. The whole team is at Dirt World. The interactions people have with our team at Dirt World, that's our brand. The interactions that they have as. As. As individuals. Like, and so that. That. That is what makes me happiest. And I find most fulfillment in when somebody has a great. When someone on the team does something great for somebody else. It's like, that's the brand right there. It's not what it looks like. It's not buildwit even. It's that interaction that is the manifestation of the brand. And when I had nothing to do with it, it's like, that's it right there. And that is the coolest thing. That's when you know it's really working.

[Chase Harris]

And also. But the reason that happened or the way it happened is because you have also been so intentional at communicating. This is our vision. This is our mission. This is our purpose. These are our values. I saw them on the desk out there. You've reinforced how the team should be showing up, how they should be acting, what good or excellent looks like so you can trust them. To have those conversations and build real relationships. But you've invested in that. That didn't just happen.

[Aaron]

Well, and we've provided guidance. I think people want guidance. They want guardrails. So where are the boundaries? Where do I need to be? They don't just want to be floating out in space. And I see this with leaders all the time. They're frustrated with their people not doing the right shit. It's like, well, have you told them what the right thing is? Have you given them the instructions? No. You're just expecting them to show up day one knowing how to do things. And maybe that should be the expectation. Like in, in the perfect world, sure. Everybody just shows up day one ready to get after it.

[Chase Harris]

That sounds nice, that sounds great.

[Aaron]

But that is just not the world, man. And I'm frankly, I'm glad it's not. Because that differentiate differentiates us, differentiates you, differentiates any business that is willing to get after it, that is willing to pour that time and energy into people to define what the expectations are, to hold the line when it comes to those expectations and then to bring more people in to grow that over time and again. It takes time, but it's really cool as it comes together. But it's nonstop effort too.

[Chase Harris]

It's consistency, it's non stop effort. Well, and that trust, do it once. And we talk about brands building trust and that's a key reason why you should invest in your brand. It's building trust, yes, with your customers and your reputation, but with your team. And the only way that you do that is through that positive, consistent behavior over time. The kicker there is over time you have to keep doing it. It's not a one and done situation. And especially when you're talking about values, you're talking about how they show up and how they instill that in others. You know, how they start to coach and teach. That's when you really, it gets exciting to see people start adopting it. You know, feeling that sense of pride, taking ownership over it and then sharing that with others. That's when you've, you know, you've hit on something special.

[Aaron]

But with the values, I think that's why you guys spend a lot of time teasing out what they already believe in.

[Chase Harris]

Right?

[Aaron]

It's not really aspirational. You're not like, so what do you hope to achieve? It's, it's, who are you guys today? Like, if the values are already you, you don't have to worry about being consistent or inconsistent because it's just, it's just who you are already. Like, there's a little bit of, we need a little bit more of this. So, so there is some aspiration, but most of it's just like, who are we?

[Chase Harris]

You're right. Well, I will say there's usually maybe one or two values in there that are maybe a little bit more aspirational. But the way to look at that is they're felt, they're there, they're just maybe not being acted on or the accountability isn't there. And so the whole point of values is it makes it clear, hey, this is what your actions should be, this is what good looks like and what it doesn't look like. And so then it's a tool, it's a framework that leaders can use to instill the right behavior to coach and ultimately get to where you want to be.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but this, the consistency thing is critical because humans I think are really intuitive and smart. And I put myself back in the position that is a kid working out in the field. I can still tell you to this day who I felt was bought in, what companies I felt were bought in, what leaders I thought I felt were bought in, and who I wouldn't trust with anything, which was probably a majority, frankly of leadership I was around.

[Chase Harris]

And what were the differentiators between us? Like, what was the difference between the one that was bought in and not like what were some of those core.

[Aaron]

I just think the consistency and the. And you actually felt like they cared for you. You didn't, you felt it, you knew that that's what they were actually after.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah, we're, you know, a value that sounds great and is just on a website or on the wall.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

Doesn't mean shit. It doesn't matter if you don't actually believe it and you're not acting on it.

[Aaron]

And I would argue it's worse to go put the aspirational stuff on the wall and to not follow through with it. I would rather, and I've said this a bunch, like with these really big companies, it's like, I would rather them just tell me, listen, we've got a hundred thousand people. We can't trust anybody, we can't trust anybody. Within that bunch there are just some shitheads. And so to manage our risk because we're this multinational company with lots of lawyers, stock exchange, so on and so forth, we're just going to treat you like a six year old. I would, I would genuinely appreciate that

[Chase Harris]

you know what you're signing up for.

[Aaron]

Yes. Like we just, just, just, here's the rule book so we're understood. And that's how, I'm sorry it has to be this way, but it just has to be that way. But instead it's oftentimes within this wrapper of like, well, we really care about you and it's all doing the right thing to make everybody feel good. But then, but then it builds this resentment within you.

[Chase Harris]

Resentment. And that's the quickest way to erode trust. Yes, you're saying this, but you're not following it through with action. This is bullshit.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah. Or me as the company Chase, I demand you to be trustworthy. But I'm not in this equation. And only until you're trustworthy might I even think about offering you my trust. But you've got to go prove yourself first. It's like, that's not how it works. That's not how it works. But if I day one say, chase, I trust you, you're adult, you're a grown ass man. Just be an adult. Like, here's the guardrails, but just be an adult man. I just, I trust you. And then you start working here for weeks and months and you're like, wow, they actually do just trust me. This is weird, this is new. I haven't experienced this before, but it feels good and it's aligned more so I think with human nature and individualism and you don't want to screw that up. So odds are you're not going to take advantage of it. Odds are it becomes this self fulfilling prophecy in a very positive way that is you acting trusting and every once in a while we will get screwed. Yeah, you get them out, it's just, it's just humanity. You boot them out and then you keep on going. You don't add seven more rules to accommodate how I just got screwed. Because then 13 years down the road now you've got that rulebook.

[Chase Harris]

And I'm glad you share that example because it is, you know what I've heard before, and you probably heard too, is you know, that there was a shithead, there was an incident where that trust was broken or they didn't live out those values. And the response is sometimes we can't trust anybody. We're completely pulling back. And that's not the answer, that's not the solution. It's obviously address that situation, get them out, but continue to invest in what the values should be showing, what they should be communicating. Hey, this is what great looks like. And eventually it's going to be kind of a self healing culture where somebody who's Not a fit is going to become very clear. They're going to be a standout and they're not a good fit. It's not. Not the right path for them, and that's okay.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

But it takes. It takes time to get there.

[Aaron]

It does take time to get there. Yeah. And so it was. When was it? End of 2024. We decided to sell the creative part of the business.

[Chase Harris]

That feels like five years ago. Yeah.

[Aaron]

And then the question then became, like, how? And through. It was a pretty quick process. I. Through like 30 days, maybe 60, maybe

[Chase Harris]

it was about two. Two months.

[Aaron]

Two months?

[Chase Harris]

Yeah, about. Yeah, it's about two months or so.

[Aaron]

We. We. We arrived at the decision to sell it to you, which I don't think. I don't think there was another way to do it in hindsight at all, but to sell it to you, which then, as you've alluded to, made you an overnight business owner, forced you into creating a whole new brand.

[Chase Harris]

Really quickly. We put those skills to the test. It was a brand sprint for sure.

[Aaron]

And we were closed. Yeah. The decision was made in September. We announced it to the team. After Thanksgiving.

[Chase Harris]

No, we announced it to the team. I don't know if you remember, it was after Christmas.

[Aaron]

After Christmas.

[Chase Harris]

So it was. Yeah. Timing. I remember kind of really.

[Aaron]

I was in Australia. Yeah. And I remember talking.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah. You were on vacation the whole time. I'm kidding.

[Aaron]

Yes. Well, weren't you. Weren't you. Weren't you going?

[Chase Harris]

I ended up going. Yeah. I ended up going to Patagonia. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd been playing for like a year.

[Aaron]

We were both out of the country.

[Chase Harris]

Country.

[Aaron]

Okay. So we told the team.

[Chase Harris]

I remember. Yeah, I remember. You know, you. It was, I think around October, but it was the summit where it kind of really fully made the decision. Yeah. And then it was really taking November, December to figure out how the heck. How the heck do I buy business. What does that mean? Yeah. What is. What is an apa? What's an operating agreement? You know, how do you get investors? Yeah.

[Aaron]

How does payroll work?

[Chase Harris]

How does payroll work? I got to register this business with the state. You know, all those things that, you know, you just have to figure out in the span of a few weeks. And was very fortunate to have some incredible mentors and leaders and, you know, you and the Buildwood team.

[Aaron]

Yeah, mostly Dan, Kara, Randy. Yeah, everybody behind the scenes.

[Chase Harris]

Dan and Kara were fantastic. And Randy. But yeah, big shout out to Kara. Systems. Systems there. But, you know, in that process, I, you know, I Met with a few different investors. And this is also where it comes back to intuition. You know, there was some times where, hey, I don't know what I'm doing here, but this doesn't quite feel right. I don't think this is the right path and, you know, continue to trust myself and get other opinions. And ultimately happened the way it was supposed to. And that process was. I said 60 days. That's kind of where I thought you were going. But it was about 60 days for that process to happen. And then we officially closed in February 1st. So, yeah, we told the team early January. You know, it was about three or four weeks of getting all the systems, transitioning, everything, letting clients know, and February 1st.

[Aaron]

And I think it was. I mean, it was a. It was a really big win for everybody, everything considered. Like, everybody. Everybody retained their job. Everybody was still doing what they were doing before with. With that. Within that sale like it was.

[Chase Harris]

There was virtually no, you know, maybe some small. But virtually no hiccups on the client side.

[Aaron]

Yep. With no real turnover.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah, no real turnover. We had, you know, full projects that were in swing that were able to transition over. You know, it was. Looking back, I think, couldn't have gone much smoother. You know, in the thick of. Was a whirlwind. So. Holy, you know, what the heck am I doing here? Is this right? You know, a little bit of just calm on the surface and, you know, frantically paddling underneath. But it worked out and it got easier. Sure. Figured something out. Another thing popped up. Figure it out, you know, and it just gets a little bit easier. Yeah. So, yeah. And again, that goes back to kind of my journey, too, of how I've grown as a leader, you know, as a business owner, and figuring that out and what guides me and what's my compass, as I've, you know, had to figure that out for field work and for myself, you know, and that had to happen pretty quickly. But I would say, you know, it took me a full year to really kind of get that clarity, at least for myself. And more recently, sharing that with the team and our vision and.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Chase Harris]

And where we're heading.

[Aaron]

I mean, it took our business at least a year to even digest the change and really define ourselves as a software company. And the quote I love, and I don't know if he actually said it or not, but apparently in an address, Abraham Lincoln asked the audience if. If you call a dog's tail a leg, how many legs does the dog have? And after, they're like five. He's like, no, just because you call a tail leg doesn't make it so it's still four. And just because we were calling ourselves a software company did not mean we were a software company. And. We were pretty dependent. We were more dependent on the cash flow from the creative side of the business than we anticipated. And the billing structure on the creative side of the business. You bill a lot up front, which is, as you've learned running a business now, cash flow is.

[Chase Harris]

It's important, Eric. I can confirm that.

[Aaron]

And so getting, like, pulling the rip cord on that whole 20, 25. I don't want to do it again.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

But I'm really. I'm really. We needed to do it. That was the only way to do it. So not just for the. It wasn't just for the. The team. I think it was the right call for the team, but it was the right call for both businesses. It wasn't. It wasn't sustainable.

[Chase Harris]

So I'd agree. And I mean, I think some of that is just after the. After the sale, after the transition, kind of talking with the team and just realizing, you know, having that clarity and focus and vision is. That's what people want. Hey, why am I here? How does this help with the bigger picture? And we don't need to go through all of this. But ultimately, it was clear that the path forward for build it was around Dirt World and was around the software.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

And so, hey, you know, if I'm, you know, I'm on this creative team, I'm building these brands, how does this fit in? That lack of clarity led to frustration. Hey, what's my role? What's my purpose here? And I think ultimately, you know, was definitely the right call and another reinforcement for. For me, too, and making sure that's clear. And also in the work that we do for our companies, to make sure

[Aaron]

that's clear on culturally, too, there was a larger and larger chasm. And. And the way I've explained it to people is like, if you have two boats head in the same course and then you vary them by about half a degree, it's not very much to begin with, but as they go, they just get further and further and further apart. And I think that's where we were going. Like, the creative side of the business was going further in one direction, and that was. That was the course we had been on the whole time.

[Chase Harris]

Sure.

[Aaron]

But then I think what's unique about Buildwood is we've always. We haven't served a business necessarily. We haven't served an identity like A type. A category of business. We've served a problem in our mission, which I think it's pretty unique. It's, it's, again, it's. It's caused a lot of the frustration along the way, but it's also made us into what we are, and we couldn't have got here otherwise. And so that, that was like. I understand their frustration because that was the trajectory we were on for a very long time. But then we were like, well, we need to. We need to switch course, but they're still on that course. And so it just gets wider and wider and you can't. Maybe there was a way to bring it together. I don't think there was a way to bring it together. So, yeah, I. And there.

[Chase Harris]

I don't either.

[Aaron]

There was definitely some frustration and Completely justified. Completely justified because it was. It was kind of two in a way, like, only child and then the new baby shows up and the parents are all in on the new baby, and the only child over there is

[Chase Harris]

like, whoa, hey, yeah. What about me?

[Aaron]

What, what, What's. What's going on here?

[Chase Harris]

That's exactly how I was feeling, Aaron. And I'm an only child. So, yeah. Double whammy.

[Aaron]

Yeah. So it's, it's like. I don't know if that's the perfect description, but. But I understand it. Like, it's, It's. You can't. You can't. A business. It is people at the end of the day. Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

Well, and I think through all of that, one thing to call out is that for you, and I'd like to think for me as well, the focus was on how can we do this in the best way for our people, how can we care for the team the best way? And ultimately that was the best call. And I think you actually recommended it. The book Necessary Endings.

[Aaron]

Yeah, it's really good.

[Chase Harris]

It's really good. Sometimes it's best to let go. And ultimately, as I mentioned before, it's helped us both thrive. Both organizations figure out where they're supposed to be and improve. And sometimes it takes that bigger change or transition.

[Aaron]

Yeah, for us, it's the only way we could have gotten here, but it took us 12, 12 months at least to just digest it. And then we've only really become a software company recently, which is. It's really fun, but it's taken some time to get there. So it was same team, same work. Basically, the backlog, just, our creative backlog just went to you all and then you started to sell new work. The major change was the brand. Because that was one of the conditions was, hey, we, we need to keep the billboard brand over here. That's one of, I tell people that's like the moat, the alligator infested moat around the castle. Like, that's, that's a really key part of this. And I think for you guys, too, you had to create your own identity anyway.

[Chase Harris]

I think it was the right, the right call on both sides.

[Aaron]

Yeah, you had to become a teenager and, you know, rebel against parents and figure out who you are.

[Chase Harris]

Yep, Just really quickly.

[Aaron]

Yeah, really quickly. But, but, but, but visually, really quickly. But like you said, it took a year, I think, to really figure it out. So it became field work. What have you figured out along the way? Like, what's changed? Because I, people ask me, do you know what's going on? I'm like, I don't have a single clue. I have no involvement. I have no ownership. I don't know. Like, I see you every few months. I'm like, hey, Chase, how's it going? Otherwise, I couldn't tell you what you guys are doing anymore.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

Intentionally. Because I don't want to be, I don't, I don't want to be around. It's your thing.

[Chase Harris]

Well, I, I, I'll say that, you know, it did take probably about a year for me personally to figure out how do I show up as a leader, as a business owner, my values, you know, my beliefs. And I think I'm going to start there. And then I think that bleeds into field work. And for me, I got really clear on, hey, this is how I show up in the world. These are my values. I mentioned it before, but that stoicism has been such a key part for me and how I show up. And the biggest takeaway there is recognizing and letting go of what I can't control and changing what I can.

[Aaron]

Mm.

[Chase Harris]

And, you know, ultimately, that's gonna happen every single day. But taking that mindset or having that mindset has just been so helpful for me. Sticking with my process, my approach, you know, my habits, and in doing so, has helped me get a lot of clarity for, for field work.

[Aaron]

What's like, an example of that? Something you've had to lay off of,

[Chase Harris]

like, as a takeaway, like kind of a growth area for me.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Like, what is that? How's that materialized?

[Chase Harris]

Yeah, I'll, I'll give you one example. It's very topical for. It was our first year, obviously a lot to figure out. What the heck's an apa? You know, starting Business. So we got all that, got payroll. Hey, this is working. Pretty soon after that, got about 15, I think, or so at the time. Found out that not just one person on our team was pregnant, but three people. Yeah. So it's 20% of our team. We are a small, small, scrappy team. Was. Was pregnant and obviously so happy for them. But, you know, the first thought for me, unfortunately, at the time as a new business owner, was, holy cow, what the heck are we going to do? How is this.

[Aaron]

It's a real concern.

[Chase Harris]

How is this going to work?

[Aaron]

Yeah, it's a real concern.

[Chase Harris]

And. And we got through it. Team rallied, you know, rallied together, made some great hires, and we got through it. But it's a perfect case of I had no control over that. Sure, I can't change that situation of the reality, but I can change how I respond to it, how I show up for the team, how we lead through this, how we communicate with our clients. And so I think that's, you know, that's one example. And there's a lot beyond just that of just curveballs. Shit happens. Things that are out of my control, out of our control. And I could get super upset. I could get really mad, you know, throwing the towel or just recognize, hey, it happened. This is. This could be an opportunity. How do I show up, how do I respond? And so that's, you know, that's been a big part of my growth, and I can get to kind of field work next. But I think it starts there.

[Aaron]

The pregnancy thing is. It's funny in a sense that, like, it's a lot different. It looks a lot different when you're not running things to. Then when you're running things because that it's a legitimate concern or something. I've been thinking about right now is even just cost of living in inflation. It's just like, dude, five years ago, 65, $70,000 was pretty solid, but now it's like, and. And as a business owner, small business owner, it's like, how do you. How do you keep up with this? Like, you've got inflation outpacing wage growth. And I'm doing my best as a small business. Like, I don't have a boat sitting my driveway right now. We're pouring everything back into it, but it's still like you feel underwater sometimes, because it's my responsibility to ensure that they can live the lives that they want. But you've got the overall also have

[Chase Harris]

a profitable business, so it can support

[Aaron]

everything, to support everybody. It's all of these things Pushing and pulling in these different directions.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah, that's something I learned. I don't think you really can learn unless you start a business or you go through that process. And that's where I have a lot more respect and appreciation for you and those decisions that you had made and I don't know all of them, but you had to make before because it's never black and white. But I think also thinking of last year and particularly with, you know, the pregnancy is something that I was so proud of for our first year, is that, you know, we didn't just get through it. You know, we offered 12 weeks paid leave and a four week transition after that.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

You know, for. It was 20% of our team at the time. And we were okay, sure. We got through it. And building an. A business, a place, an organization, a culture where people can build the lives they want, show up the way that they want, it was really important to me. And that's, you know, kind of a personal. More personal why. But it was one of the things I was most proud of last year with the transition.

[Aaron]

But you need the culture to accommodate that in the first place. And then I, like, I haven't had kids, so I don't know. But Jessica, she had, she had a baby two years ago now. It's Nora. Yeah, I think two years ago now. She was just running around the office the other day stealing my, stealing my toys and looking at my fish for free. I need to start charging her, just pay for fish food. But I didn't really fully appreciate too, just as a woman is pregnant, how many appointments that they have leading up to the pregnancy. Like they're in and out all the time for all these different appointments. And then you have the pregnancy for that 12 week duration, whatever it is, the few months after that you offer that leave and then they have a baby. Right. That they have to take care of.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah. It doesn't just stop. No.

[Aaron]

It's not like, oh, got that done, now we can get back to normal. It's like, no, their life is changed forever. They have this small little child that they have to care for. Their body is different, their mental state is different. And not in bad ways, but to act like you just go back to who you were before. No way. And then now you have to, well, what do you do with the child while you're at work? Are they at home? Do you have daycare? Okay, now you have daycare. Daycare is one, hard to get into. To get into a reasonable daycare. Two, it's really Expensive. And so now you have this huge cost of living adjustment for that, for that family. Like there's a lot more to it than even just here's your, here's your leave.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah. And much of what you said, we will never be able to fully appreciate or understand.

[Aaron]

Not at all.

[Chase Harris]

But it is our responsibility as leaders and business owners to try to understand it and to create a culture, a place where there is that flexibility, there is that level of, of care and understanding, hey, it is going to look different. And I think pretending that it isn't going to be or, you know, it's up to the individual to solve that is not the right mindset.

[Aaron]

No, it's insane. And partially, why are birth rates declining so much in the States? It's like we're not, as in business, we're not accommodating people that have families right now. And it's like, that's not good for anybody. That's, that's really not a good trend. But, but I think too, you can appreciate now just how much influence business has on people's lives if for good and for bad. And you can wield it in different ways. And it's so much further than a paycheck. So much. Or it should be. It can be. I want it to be.

[Chase Harris]

Well, I think. And the best people in town want it to be. And those are the organizations that they're going to join. Yes. So, yeah, sure, you don't, you don't have to have that mindset, but you're going to see a clear gap in culture and in talent that you have and the people that you have.

[Aaron]

And it's less about ping pong tables and bullshit as it is just caring for people as a whole individual.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And, and, and, and helping them become the human. Helping them become a better human being. And helping them become the human being, the family that they want to be like that. That's. If that's not the goal. What is the whole point to this? What is the whole point? If I'm just going to ignore people outside of outside the company? Just show up and do your damn job. I pay you money. Whatever you do outside of here, not my problem. That to me is crazy. Like, even, even my brother, he's got, he's got two weeks off a year. Two weeks off a year, which is standard in America. But I'm just like, what a crock of shit, man. What, you get two weeks out of 52 to do anything that you want to do. What? Yeah, it doesn't. And I understand like, especially in construction, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, we just got to get it done. But to think that that's the norm. I don't want to do that now that I've had what I have. No way.

[Chase Harris]

And also, like, it's going to force that change. Like, there are other options out there. And so you're starting to see more flexibility come into the industry. And also, in my mind, it's just the right thing to do.

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Chase Harris]

What would you want? It's pretty simple there. Do the best you can. Not everyone is going to be able to offer unlimited PTO or, you know, eight weeks paid off. But, like, do what you can. Make the effort.

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Chase Harris]

And I think it goes back to caring for not just the employee, but the person, the individual. It's holistic.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

At fieldwork, our, you know, our mission, our why is to help hardworking people reach their full potential. You know, that starts with our team. And I always ask, you know, and question that for myself. What am I doing to help them grow, to develop? And, you know, if we're living out that culture and our values, then ultimately we're going to help other companies do that as well.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

But it starts with us and me.

[Aaron]

It starts with you. Yeah, it starts with you. It starts with me. And that. That's always been my goal here is like, no matter how people come and go, I want them to leave better. That should be the goal. I want everybody, whether they'll admit it or not, I want them to be genuinely better. That's always been my intent. And I feel like we've followed through on that, too. We haven't always hit it dead on, but I do, I do, for all of our mistakes we've made along the way, feel like we have done that. And I want to continue doing that because, again, I just think that's the right thing to do. Like, and I think that's like, you were talking about how you. How you focus on what you can impact. That's the cool thing about business. It's like. And I think this is where we've, like, on a. I don't even know if we would disagree on that much. Like, we come from very different points of view, though, on a lot of things.

[Chase Harris]

Sure.

[Aaron]

But I actually think most of it's pretty common ground, but especially years ago. And I've always wanted to go change the world, too. It's like, we want to go have this big impact, but that impact really starts with the people within our world, within this little sphere that Is that is ours, that, that we're in charge of for whatever reason. And that starts with the people within our business. Like I can't even think about changing the world or doing anything outside of this, this place if I can't help those, the 40something people within the business now become better. If I can't do that.

[Chase Harris]

Absolutely.

[Aaron]

That's it.

[Chase Harris]

And I think too it's even. I mean there's so much happening in the world. There's always, you know, always a new headline. World's changing quickly and sometimes it can be a little daunting to think about that. Oh, I want it to be better. I want to make a big impact.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

And I've learned to just always come back to, hey, what is in my circle, what can I control at home with my team, with myself, in my neighborhood.

[Aaron]

Yep.

[Chase Harris]

Do what you can.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

You know, make a little. If you're walking, you see some trash on the ground, pick it up, throw it away like a small little action. Now are you. Have you cleaned up the entire city? No. But you have made it a little bit better for your area, you know, your neighborhood. You've controlled what you can.

[Aaron]

But, but I think that's how like what you're doing, what we're doing, what others are doing, that, but that's how you actually create a huge impact as well is if especially through the dirt world and through infrastructure. And you guys have expanded a little bit beyond dirt world, which I think is a great, great call. I was the guy that was the,

[Chase Harris]

the lid on that dirt nerd. I chief dirt nerd.

[Aaron]

You know, I just. People are like, how'd you figure out who to work with? I just wanted to work with companies I thought were cool. And if I didn't think it was cool, I didn't want to do it.

[Chase Harris]

It's that simple.

[Aaron]

Yeah. I don't know why I think it's cool, but I do. So, but just, just, just trades, blue collar people in general. I really think that is the most effective. It's the most effective thing I can dedicate my life to. To create the most change in the world by helping further those that are building the world around us. I don't see a better way to go. Create massive impact. You've got within construction like 8 million people. But within the trades you've got tens of millions of hardworking people, hardworking Americans that are making this whole thing work. Power, water, roads, trucking. Everything, everything in our lives is because of these people. They, if you make them better, not only do they take that home and impact tens of millions of more people, which is incredible. They build the fabric of our society. Like how? What's a better way to control or shape the future than by shaping those that quite literally shape the world around us and thus shape the future?

[Chase Harris]

Right now, I can't think of one. And that, I mean, that comes back to you, Aaron. You know, this is an industry in a world that I didn't think I would end up in, but I couldn't imagine being anywhere else now because of that. And it just made me completely change how I look at the world and the infrastructure, the things I use every day. But also now my team feels that way. And more than that, too. I think helping these companies tell that story for their people, for their communities, you know, the clients that they're serving, people need to hear it.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

And I think that's obviously where it comes back to power, branding and storytelling. But I think it also goes deeper than that, too, of how do you not just tell that story, but how do you help these companies better clarify, tell how they should be acting, operating their values? And that's where culture comes into play as well.

[Aaron]

It's probably been fun for you, too. I've always enjoyed bringing people into the fold that have never seen this world before. And you just kind of. You see them just, like, gradually open their eyes wider and wider and wider. Like, I feel like I remember when we were working naca, I took you out to a coal mine. You've never been to a coal mine before?

[Chase Harris]

Never been to a coal mine. And you definitely had some. Some thoughts around.

[Aaron]

You had some coal mine reservations.

[Chase Harris]

Some reservations, yeah.

[Aaron]

Which is fair. That's fair. But then you went out there and you're like, I think we went to Red Hills, which is a beautiful place.

[Chase Harris]

Well, and it's so cool because you can see them actually mining, but you can see the progression of all their reclamation work. And especially with Naco and that company and the amount of care and investment they put into the environment and protecting, you know, land and minimizing impact. But you could see it. You could see what happened, you know, 10 years, 10, 15 years ago, you had all these trees, you had the grass, you had, you know, this lake, and then you could see the grass, which was, you know, maybe five years of reclamation and then the actual mining site.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

And so it just showed a completely new world for me and obviously goes against what's the common, you know, perception out there around mining. And that's just one example where there is power in storytelling and seeing it firsthand. And so I'm. I'm very grateful for that trip.

[Aaron]

Well, now you also see the people out there, too.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And just, like, just realize after that, like, how you have all these people in these cities telling us what to do with the environment, whereas you have these people out there caring for the land every day that are connected to the environment more so than anybody in a city ever will be. And to think that, like, that the people living in an apartment are the best ones to make that decision. It's like, I know there's corporate interests involved. I know it's complicated, but to me, it's like, why wouldn't I defer to those using the land to feed their families? Because that's like. That's as direct of a link as it gets to the environment. And. And they're. They're the people that care the most about the environment that I've met throughout my travels are those people that depend on the environment to, again, feed their families. Like, that's. If it's putting bread on the table.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

You don't. You don't want to go trash it.

[Chase Harris]

It doesn't get much more personal than that.

[Aaron]

No. Yeah. No, but, yeah, I remember that. I remember that trip because that was one. It was fun for me because it was like, oh, yeah, you can. Like, you could see your eyes open kind of throughout that trip. Like, wow, this is not what I was expecting. I've had those. I've had those experiences, too. Like when I went to the. The oil sands for the first time, I was expecting it to be a disaster because it is not painted in a good light. And they've done. They haven't done themselves very many favors from a storytelling standpoint, but, I mean, they've been really beat up by, like, Leonardo DiCaprio. Like, big time. Big time beat up. But I went up there and I was like, so where's the. Where's the problem? Like, what? This is it? This is what? Like, I'm actually pleasantly. I was expecting this to be a disaster, but this is. You guys are actually thinking this through, and they're like, yeah, we're. We're thinking this through. I'm like, wow, okay, cool.

[Chase Harris]

Well, it goes back to, if you don't tell your story, somebody else will.

[Aaron]

Somebody always will.

[Chase Harris]

And you've shared that before. And, you know, something we bring up often, there's this hesitancy to, you know, share what we do. Sometimes it's secret sauce, you know, and it's like one most of the time, everyone's doing the same thing. At the end of the day, everybody's

[Aaron]

doing the same thing.

[Chase Harris]

But two, if you don't share it, somebody else will. So own the narrative and shine the light on the people doing it. Make it human. Like that's, you've actually nailed it. And that's the piece that was a big kind of light bulb for me is having the conversation with who was actually at Red Hills or. And not just at the Naco project, but any of our partners that we go and see firsthand and talk to in the field. There's this huge sense of pride, emotion in the work that gets done and people want to hear that, people want to see that.

[Aaron]

But I think it's since we started doing this, it is, it really has changed you.

[Chase Harris]

You started it. I mean, I feel like it's safe. Maybe not, not fully, but like you were one of the biggest, you know, catalysts I'd say for the industry to feel comfortable sharing its story.

[Aaron]

Yeah, I mean you're giving me a lot of credit here. I think I was the one that helped kick the snowball down the hill. But it's been, it's been you, it's been Dan, Randy, you know, you go down the list of everybody within both businesses currently within that's, that's been there with all the companies that have trusted us along the way that have, I mean, paid us to do it and trusted us with their brands sometimes that are a hundred years old, like Sargent for example, you know, it's a hundred year old company that we helped shape the image of in a small way.

[Chase Harris]

We have one coming up pretty soon that's one of the oldest and it's, I want to say it's going to run 150 crazy. Yeah, 150 years crazy. And it is, you know, that is, that's not just a project like that is an incredible responsibility for us to honor this legacy, to capture that legacy and to help evolve this brand for the future. And it's not erasing what's been built. No, there's a reason why they've been in business for 150 years. 100 years, whoever it is. 75. You know, there's a reason for that, but also how do we acknowledge, celebrate, honor that legacy and bring it forward into where it needs to be in the future. And that's a really fun challenge for me. And I think what our team does really well, we're not there to bulldoze a brand and say this is how,

[Aaron]

this is how you should get rid of bulldozers out of brands.

[Chase Harris]

I feel strongly about bulldozers as a logo.

[Aaron]

If you've got a bulldozer in your logo, you hire fieldwork. Like, it's.

[Chase Harris]

It's gone. Yeah, it's gone.

[Aaron]

It's gone.

[Chase Harris]

Watch out. You've been warned.

[Aaron]

Yeah. I'm sorry, but he did it to me. He'll do it to you.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah, yeah.

[Aaron]

I'm still bitter about it.

[Chase Harris]

No, bulldozers are safe.

[Aaron]

Yeah. My genius early branding.

[Chase Harris]

Oh, yeah.

[Aaron]

You did away with that so fast.

[Chase Harris]

Go to upwork. Where was that one?

[Aaron]

Upwork. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Upwork.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

What. What are you excited about now into this year, now that you've gotten your feet beneath you?

[Chase Harris]

I am really excited. One just the team is. We've gotten some great, great people, and it's so fun to see. Just see the team start to kind of work together, get it? Our values have been clarified. I, you know, tweaked them a little bit, and so it feels like they're right for us now. We've clarified our vision.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Chase Harris]

And so the team has been really big. Been fortunate to have some great, great partners who have trusted us, some newer partners. But the biggest thing and the thing that I'm most excited about is that we have. We're shifting and we've clarified our approach with brand. And it is something that is not just the logo, it's not just the website. We are treating brand as an operating system. It is a way to influence culture, to drive behavior, to build trust. A lot of that is internal. Obviously, that goes to external as well. But I think a lot of people think of. And in this industry, a lot of contractors think of marketing and brand as the same thing, and they're not. You have to start with brand. Brand is the foundation and a necessity in order to do great marketing. But I think beyond that, too, it is a direct tie and influence to your culture. So as more people start to come in, you're looking to train. As the world is evolving, there's always something happening outside of our control. Your brand gives you parameters. It helps you act. And not just yourself, but your team, your crews in the field, your crews in the office. It helps create that alignment. And we've gotten much better at facilitating some of those conversations, helping companies figure out what that. What that looks like, and actually help them operationalize their brand well.

[Aaron]

And this actually ties really nicely into what we're working on right now. It's taken us a decade to figure it out, and it's not real brilliant, but it's, it creates, it allows for decentralization, which I think has. The traditional contractor is, is a very traditional hierarchy. You've got an owner, you've got vice presidents, you've got superintendents, project managers, foreman, people in the field. And the people in the field are so separated from the decision making ultimately. But the best companies, they have more of like a rich divinity type model. Everybody within the business is equipped to lead when they should be leading. And so if, if, if an operator needs to have an interaction with somebody driving into the work zone, for example, like they're leading in that scenario, you're not calling to the office to figure something out, but they have brand gives them a framework on how to facilitate that interaction and make those decisions in real time rather than just stopping and creating a mess. Yep.

[Chase Harris]

It's a framework. It's a system. Yes, It's a system.

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Chase Harris]

And I think that's where there does need to be this mindset shift. And I get really excited and fired up about it of thinking about it in those terms. If it's not actually driving behavior or helping people align with how they should be acting, we haven't done our jobs right. Or there's a gap with your brand. We're working with several very large organizations right now and it's really focused internally on safety, culture, on like, how do you create the right culture, mindset, accountability, actions when it comes to safety. And you can fill in the blank here. Brand is a tool in a way to help you communicate that or to reinforce those actions or to provide that system and that framework. So everyone is running in the same direction. And I believe, I think you would agree here that your brand can be a force multiplier or detractor 100%.

[Aaron]

And everybody has a brand.

[Chase Harris]

Everyone. Yeah. Whether you invest in it or not, everyone has a brand.

[Aaron]

Yep.

[Chase Harris]

Absolutely.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Every person, every company, every team.

[Chase Harris]

Now whether you choose to manage it or invest in it, that's your decision.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah, it's. And I think it's a really savvy transition too. Like, I think obviously the, the websites, the media projects, that kind of stuff, it's still important in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, yeah, but that's kind of the, that's on the back end in a way. And I think you guys are being careful in how you go about that too, to continue to differentiate yourself. Because every time I go on the Internet, there's a new blue collar marketing company now.

[Chase Harris]

And that's marketing.

[Aaron]

Yes, exactly.

[Chase Harris]

That's where There's a difference between brands.

[Aaron]

Yeah. And I don't see them as the same at all. And so. And that, like, we've had these discussions all the time of continuing to differentiate the creative work we're doing because. Yeah, you see all these marketing companies, but it's. It's different. It's. It's a completely different conversation.

[Chase Harris]

Well, one of the most important, if not the most important thing that we do is our workshops, our brand and strategy workshops. And it's with executive teams and leadership teams. And it is not just for us to understand their business. It is a way for that team, that organization, to help create alignment.

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Chase Harris]

Of. This is what we stand for. This is how we act. Because many times they haven't done that before. And that it's our job, you know, to take that information, build that into a system, build that into a brand that they are, you know, isn't just going to be effective, but ultimately they're proud of. They want to wear the logo, they want to wear the hat outside of work, you know.

[Aaron]

Sure.

[Chase Harris]

And that's kind of the magic piece, too, is when you start to see that pride and that adoption come in 100%.

[Aaron]

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure there's no better feeling than when you present the revised brand structure and where you're going. And they're over the moon about it because I know it doesn't always work that way because there are.

[Chase Harris]

Sometimes it takes a couple rounds.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There are some feelings, and it's not always rational,

[Chase Harris]

but sometimes people just hate the color blue.

[Aaron]

Sure. Yeah. I. Yeah, blue gets me every time.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah. I'm like, just tell us that earlier.

[Aaron]

But it, but, but, yeah. Even for me on the outside, as. As long as we've been doing it now, just seeing some of those brands we worked on, like I said before, it's. It's. Once you see it and they're. They're all about it, and it's on the side of a truck driving down the highway. You're like, damn, that is so cool.

[Chase Harris]

And that's where it comes back to the adoption, and it comes back to the leadership team.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

They have to be bought in. They have to be excited about it. They have to reinforce it, especially in the beginning, for it to start really being adopted and, and taking it to the field and beyond. And we're also learning, you know, we've gotten a lot better at that process, and we are changing to be able to have those conversations to help roll it out better. So we've been growing and learning over the past years, for sure.

[Aaron]

It's pretty exciting. It's really cool.

[Chase Harris]

Thank you. Yeah, I'm pretty, pretty fired up about it. And I mean, we wouldn't be here, obviously, if it wasn't for you. But also how we grew, evolved to build with. And this transition. Yeah, all part of the process.

[Aaron]

Again, you're giving me a lot of the credit. I, it's, it's really that. It's really your team that's done it. I mean, I, I don't think. I think people, people give me way too much credit. Like, on the creative side of the business, even the business overall, I don't have a lot of influence. Like, I'm not, I'm not really like, in the creative process. I was involved in it very heavily in the early days, but it. Before we sold it, it was years that I had any involvement in it, and it was, it was the team doing it. Like, I, I didn't. And I wasn't really the one that even made the. The brand stuff what it is today because, like, you said, like, like we were joking about. You kicked me out of the brand workshop, like the second one

[Chase Harris]

pulled Dan aside.

[Aaron]

Yeah, I, I think, like, I, I just along the way, I was able to help kind of guide everybody and keep everybody headed focused in one direction. But it's been everybody else that's actually done it. I haven't done shit.

[Chase Harris]

Well, now I'm going to say that as well. I mean, the team's the magic behind it, and they are. You know, Garrett is much, much better facilitator, you know, than me now when it comes to understanding company culture, asking the questions that adoption, you know, same thing on the design side and creative side. So, you know, I couldn't agree more. Um, but I think the thing that I had to learn, and maybe took longer than. Than I wanted to, is you always tied it back to the industry. But hey, is this something that an operator or a labor is going to understand?

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Chase Harris]

Just because it looks good, just because it sounds good, doesn't mean it is good if it's not going to be understood by those people who are going to be using it. Understood by the field. So always having that as a litmus test has been really, really important for me and for us now.

[Aaron]

So I think that's where creative people can struggle. They get. There's an emotional attachment to your work and you can let that get in the way of what the work is really trying to achieve. And I've had to counsel People about this all the time.

[Chase Harris]

Like, it's not about you.

[Aaron]

It's not about you.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah.

[Aaron]

And they don't, they don't really give a shit about the website. They don't give a shit about videos, photos. They don't care. What they care about is really facilitating what they do, building their team. Like, that's not the outcome. The outcome isn't a new website. They want to bring more people into their business. They want to educate the community about what their business does. They want to tell their story to their existing team. Like, that's really what they're after to, to ultimately facilitate building more stuff for the community. And if it doesn't facilitate that, if it gets in the way of that, it's gotta go. And that's what I think you all have done a really good job of, is maintaining that. Like, you, you figured that out early on, like this genuine, heartfelt appreciation for those building stuff. And, and you haven't gotten, you haven't let yourself get in the way or the process get in the way of, of ultimately what, what, what we're trying to do here.

[Chase Harris]

When it comes back to what you said earlier, is you have to care. You can't fake it.

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Chase Harris]

You know what I mean? Like, and that's on our side that, you know, is with any company or leader, you can't fake care. People sniff it out, especially in this industry. Like, and so I think it starts there. But also this comes back to ego, you know, just because I love this logo and you know what it means if it's not the right fit for them. Like, it is my job, my responsibility to let it go, you know, what's best for this organization, this team, for them to be able to adopt it, you know, is it simple, easy for them to use? Is this a repeatable system that they can implement? That's more important.

[Aaron]

Yeah, yeah. And you have to know when to push and pull.

[Chase Harris]

Sure.

[Aaron]

I think there's a, there's a, it's a dichotomy itself too. Like, you do have to. There are some times where you have to lean in and be like, I've done this more than, more than anybody else. Now we need to go in this direction. But this is why. But a lot of times it's. The right answer is okay.

[Chase Harris]

And it's, I think, also on that, it's to bring them along.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

There's this hesitancy, but they may not just know where we're going. They may not understand the process, which is where our role comes in. Is we're guides. We're there to help educate them along the way. So it's not just field work doing the work, but ultimately they can take it after we finish the website or the project and run with it, make it their own. And that's Sargent, I think a great example of that. C.W. matthews. Great examples. ESS. They've taken that, they've adopted it and it's been part of their organization and their operations. But also it started with leadership and it started with a great brand in the beginning and clarity on who they were, what they stand for, their values.

[Aaron]

Yep.

[Chase Harris]

And then they could use it, run with it. Yeah.

[Aaron]

I talked to Brandon Lindsey recently on the podcast from Hoopla. He was talking about their ESOP and it was interesting because he was saying, I think a lot of people are looking at ESOP as in like that's the way to create ownership buy in and team buy in. But it was interesting how he set it up. He was like, ESOP was really the last step of the process. Like we had to build the culture for years and years and years. We had to build this mindset of responsibility and ownership for years before we actually became an esop. I think it's similar with, with, with, with brand. It's, it's in these, in the same vein that is like it has to be built for years and years and years and years.

[Chase Harris]

Consistency, it takes time. It's not going to happen overnight. And that's where I have a lot of conversations with early sales conversations or these leaders where they want the quick fix or they maybe just want the website and having to educate them and show hey, what you're really wanting takes time. You're wanting to strengthen culture, wanting to build a strong employer brand that attracts great talent. It's not going to happen overnight. Sure, a new website can help, but you have to put in the work behind it and making sure you're ultimately, you know, your values, those behaviors are aligned with where you want to go.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but that, I think that's where being a mission driven business, that's like the, that's the North Star. And I don't know how you do it also in another way, like I don't know how you're, how agencies are like, yeah, we do dentist, office and jewelry stores, Toyota dealerships. I couldn't do that. And maybe it works for them, but I don't know how. I just don't know how you stay straight when you're doing everything for everybody and you're not really like, I think you have to be addressing a problem, a core problem within for each business.

[Chase Harris]

And to really, I think, understand the problem, you have to be immersed in it, you have to be focused. And that's one of the biggest, you know, challenges that I hear from companies that have hired other agencies or generalists. They don't get our industry, they don't speak our language. They don't know what's going to resonate in the field. Yeah, I hear it all the time.

[Aaron]

All the time. And it's, it's really, it's the nuances that are, that are most important. It's. Yeah, it's, it's being able to meet people where they are. We still struggle with that. We're bringing in new people our business all the time.

[Chase Harris]

But right there with you.

[Aaron]

Yeah, the faster you can get them to at least appreciate the language and to start picking it up, the better because that will, that turns people off faster than anything else.

[Chase Harris]

We had Caitlin join our team meeting Caitlyn from Emory Sapp and Sons.

[Aaron]

Yes.

[Chase Harris]

And she did a session with us all just on how to contractors win work, but just a deep dive on the different types of bidding competitive versus negotiated. And I knew, you know, I knew a decent amount obviously in sales conversations, but I probably didn't know half of that. And actually what has to happen behind the scenes and that's the stuff where, you know, it takes us actively learning and trying to understand this industry consistently in order to serve them in the best way that we can.

[Aaron]

Well, I, I'm really excited for where you guys are going. It's been great. Yeah, I haven't, I haven't had an ounce of worry for where you're taking things. I think it's what the industry needs. We couldn't have given it to a better person, better team. And so, yeah, I've just part of partially I haven't had any involvement because it's like they're going to do it better than I could. So why the fuck would I be around?

[Chase Harris]

Well, obviously fieldwork wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you and for Buildwit. So I am beyond grateful for all the lessons learned over the past few years showing me, you know, what great leadership values looks like, importance of branding and what it doesn't look like and in some cases what it doesn't look like. But ultimately, you know, we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you and build it. So just very grateful for that. And we're always, always cheering, building on. It's been so cool to see that. I think both of us being able to have our focus, but also being able to complement each other and ultimately make the dirt world a better place.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

Aligned with that vision.

[Aaron]

That's what we're after. And if for all the people calling us for brand stuff, call Chase. Yeah. We haven't done it for a long time now.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah. Keep sending them our way.

[Aaron]

Yeah.

[Chase Harris]

Yeah, you do.

[Aaron]

Toss them over there. Cool. Well, thanks.

[Chase Harris]

Thank you. Appreciate it.