Bonus Episode: Disgraceland Q1 2026 Preview

Summary

DISGRACELAND – Bonus Episode: Q1 2026 Preview

Release Date: January 6, 2026 | Host: Jake Brennan & Zeth Lundy

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Episode Overview

This special bonus episode offers a behind-the-scenes, quarterly preview of what’s to come on DISGRACELAND in early 2026. Host Jake Brennan, with fellow producer and writer Zeth Lundy, discusses the upcoming slate of true crime–infused music stories, with a special focus on amplifying the narratives of women artists and digging deep into conspiracies, unsolved mysteries, and notorious legends. The episode blends production insight with raw storytelling—offering both sneak peeks into future subjects (like Lady Gaga, the Runaways, Johnny Thunders, and Mia Zapata) and reflections on the research process and ethical storytelling.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Format and Purpose of the Quarterly Preview

• Jake reintroduces the concept of seasons: With DISGRACELAND now on an “always on” release cycle (rather than set seasons), these quarterly behind-the-scenes episodes will act as informal “season launches” and open forums for discussing upcoming subjects and listener feedback.
• Listeners can participate in episode selection, especially through Patreon, reflecting a deepening of community involvement in the creative process.
• Focus on transparency: The team shares challenges, thought processes, and ethical considerations behind subject choice and episode production.

(Timestamp: 01:02–05:30)

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2. Preview: The Runaways & Kim Fowley

• Excerpt Reading (Live script preview dramatizing the 1970s glam scene and The Runaways’ formation).

• Key Themes:

  • Exploitation and transformation in the music industry: “This is a story about the transformative power of rock and roll… but also about the flip side of that, the price that you have to pay for that kind of escape—the manipulation and exploitation that is often at the center of the music business.” (Zeth Lundy, 09:38)
  • The Runaways’ legacy as one of the first all-female rock groups and the darkness surrounding their tale.
  • Sensitive subject matter: Jake discusses the difficulty of approaching The Runaways and Kim Fowley’s story ethically due to its real-life darkness, exploitation, and sex crimes.

• Revelatory Moments:

  • Runaways’ notorious UK arrest, with Joan Jett allegedly blaming Robert Plant for their misfortune—a wild, lesser-known connection.
  • Challenge of retelling history: “If I were writing this script for a Hollywood movie…to depict a skeevy rock guy from the 1970s, it would get rejected because it’s too over the top.” (Jake Brennan, 10:08)

(Timestamp: 05:30–14:33)

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3. Conspiracy Theories in Music: Lady Gaga & Lena Morgana

• Subject: Exploring the wild conspiracy theory that Lady Gaga stole her persona from her deceased peer Lena Morgana, and salacious claims pushed by Lena’s mother.
• Jake’s critical take: Emphasizes interest not in confirming conspiracies, but in understanding why they arise, their cultural roots, and how they persist online. “What’s more interesting to me is why did these conspiracy theories take root? Is it just for clicks, or is it based in some sort of cultural insecurity or fear?” (Jake Brennan, 18:23)
• A balanced, critical approach—exploring both the fascination and the dangers of shallow internet theorizing.

Notable Quotes:

• “There are people who don't believe that Lina Morgana killed herself. They actually believe that Lady Gaga killed Lena Morgana. And to be clear, I don't think that happened.” (Jake Brennan, 21:49)
• “The theory is rooted in some truths. That does not mean that the theory is true. There are two different things, and I want to objectively look at this and find out why this type of theory could even take root.” (Jake Brennan, 23:37)
• Lady Gaga as “incredibly talented beyond, I mean, as an entertainer…” furthering the show’s appreciation for its subjects, even while investigating dark or bizarre narratives.

(Timestamp: 16:15–25:12)

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4. Investigative Approach to Music Myths: Nirvana, Mamas & the Papas, Wu-Tang Clan, Johnny Thunders

• Jake and Zeth reflect on how their research sometimes changes their own opinions—debunking (e.g., the Courtney Love/Kurt Cobain theory) or affirming (e.g., Charles Manson’s CIA connections) long-standing music world rumors.
  Jake: “I don’t believe Courtney Love killed Kurt Cobain. And if I did believe it, I would say it, but the research doesn’t point to that.” (25:45)
• Zeth’s experience writing the Wu-Tang Clan season: Shock at how deeply the FBI classified them as a “major criminal organization” (281F)—more than just standard musician surveillance.
• Announcement: The Johnny Thunders episode will explore the “myth vs. murder” controversy—was his death an overdue case of addiction, or possibly homicide? Zeth promises a surprising, twisty narrative.
• Inside production talk: Challenges of scoring punk/metal subjects and the “Massive Attack” filter for creating the show’s signature tone.

Notable Quotes:

• “Johnny Thunders is just quite literally the most rock and roll guy of all time. And the myth around his death—he should have a myth surrounding his death.” (Jake Brennan, 32:07)

(Timestamp: 25:12–34:31)

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5. Mia Zapata & The Gits: Balancing True Crime and Memorial

• Behind-the-scenes writer’s room session—Jake and Zeth work through how to respectfully approach the story of Mia Zapata, murdered lead singer of The Gits.
• Blending music history, social impact, and sensitivity:
  • Zapata’s murder deeply scarred the Seattle music community at the grunge era’s peak.
  • Importance of not sensationalizing the crime and memorializing Mia first as an artist.
  • Influence of Zapata’s background (upper-middle class, New York upbringing, moving to Seattle) on her story.
  • Listener engagement: They invite feedback from fans and those personally touched by the scene.

Key Research Notes & Plans:

• Exploration of the challenges of being a woman in a male-dominated scene.
• The impact of new forensic DNA methods on solving the case a decade later.
• The unique moment when a fan working at the medical examiner’s office helped identify Zapata’s body—potentially an opening scene.
• Innovative audio ideas: Using the “headphone bleed” effect to add tension and immersion during the crime reenactment, without dramatizing violence.

Notable Quotes:

• “We want to make this about her.” (Jake Brennan, 42:01)
• “His [Steve Moriarty’s] primary motivation was that he was sick of hearing about Mia’s murder. He was sick of having the tabloid nature of the crime overshadow the excellence of the group and Mia herself.” (Zeth Lundy, 37:28)

(Timestamp: 34:31–42:14)

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6. Other Upcoming Subjects & “Dead Notes” Concept

• In addition to the above, Jake teases upcoming DISGRACELAND stories on:
  • Hunter S. Thompson (last non-music subject),
  • InXS (second episode for un-told storylines),
  • Chrissie Hynde (Pretenders),
  • Pete Doherty (Libertines).
• New “Dead Notes” segment: Each month, the show will look at a murder ballad or song inspired by (or inspiring) true crime—from “Helter Skelter” to “Psycho Killer.” Stories told from the perspective of the song as a new twist.

(Timestamp: 42:14–46:13)

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7. Listener Involvement & Call to Action

• Ongoing listener participation is encouraged—suggest episode subjects via:
  • Voicemail / Text: 617-906-6638
  • Social: @DisgracelandPod
  • Email: [e-mail]
• Patreon supporters at the $10 tier get extra involvement—exclusive roundtable Zooms to help pick episode subjects, plus access to an exclusive video podcast.

(Timestamp: 46:13–End)

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Memorable Quotes (w/Timestamps)

• “I feel like this year I made a conscious effort to really focus on female artists as much as we can…there’s always been this gender imbalance in our story episode subjects, because the best stories that we tell are the ones that are…reckoning stories.” (Jake Brennan, 08:26)
• “If I were writing this script for a Hollywood movie and I turned in this quote to depict a skeevy rock guy from the 1970s, it would get rejected because it’s too over the top.” (Jake Brennan, 10:08)
• “It makes it even skeezier that they were all underage.” (Zeth Lundy, 10:50)
• “What’s more interesting to me is why did these conspiracy theories take root? Is it just for clicks, or is it based in some sort of cultural insecurity or fear or whatever?” (Jake Brennan, 18:23)
• “There’s a middle that we don’t explore enough, where we should be able to look at conspiracies objectively and try to pull apart whether or not they’re true—and damn the shit out of them if they’re false.” (Jake Brennan, 18:32)
• “Johnny Thunders was just quite literally the most rock and roll guy of all time. And the myth around his death—he should have a myth surrounding his death.” (Jake Brennan, 32:07)
• “His [Steve Moriarty] primary motivation was that he was sick of hearing about Mia’s murder. He was sick of having the tabloid nature of the crime overshadow the excellence of the group and Mia herself.” (Zeth Lundy, 37:28)
• “We want to make this about her.” (Jake Brennan, 42:01)

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Key Timestamps by Segment

• 01:02–05:30: Introduction & format changes, importance of community feedback
• 05:30–14:33: The Runaways & Kim Fowley preview, themes of exploitation and 1970s music scene
• 16:15–25:12: Lady Gaga conspiracy episode preview, reflections on the mentality behind conspiracies
• 25:12–34:31: Myths, counter-narratives, and research-driven storytelling—Nirvana, Wu-Tang, Johnny Thunders
• 34:31–42:14: Development session: Mia Zapata and the Gits, research, themes, and production ideas
• 42:14–46:13: Announcements: Next episode topics, new “Dead Notes” concept
• 46:13–End: Listener call-to-action and involvement opportunities

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Tone & Style

Jake and Zeth maintain a candid, irreverent, and thoughtful tone—irreverent about the myths and culture (“I'm not saying this conspiracy theory is true. We're simply looking into the theory...”), sensitive about tragic or criminal material, and unafraid to confront uncomfortable details. They clearly demonstrate a commitment to ethical storytelling and community engagement, reflecting the show’s unique blend of music, history, and true crime.

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For Newcomers & Superfans

This bonus episode is a great entry point for both new and longtime listeners—blending inside baseball on show production with teases of upcoming high-drama stories from rock, punk, hip hop, and pop’s shadowy corners. With spotlights on The Runaways, Lady Gaga, Johnny Thunders, and Mia Zapata, plus new formats and a renewed focus on marginalized artists, Q1 2026 on DISGRACELAND promises wild, raw, and revealing music history.

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Transcript

[Jake Brennan]

Double Elvis.

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This episode is brought to you by Dead Man's Wire, the new film from Roquet Entertainment. Dead Man's Wire is the incredible true story of the 1977 kidnapping that turned an aspiring entrepreneur into an outlaw folk hero. Directed by legendary filmmaker Gus Van Sant, Dead Man's Wire stars Bill Skarsgrd, Dacre Montgomery, Cary Elways and My Halla With Colman Domingo and Al Pacino. In select theaters January 9th everywhere.

[Jake Brennan]

January 16th Disgraceland is a production of Double Elvis. This is a story about. Well, it's a story about a bunch of stories. Wild stories, stories too wild for mainstream storytelling. Stories the corporate studios wouldn't dare tell, stories the algorithms will suppress. These are stories about the most interesting musicians from music history. And they're stories about musicians and true crime. These are Disgraceland stories. And this is a revealing look into the lives and transgressions of the musicians that we love. Which means that it's a story about great music. Unlike that music I played for you at the top of the show, that wasn't great music. That was a preset loop from my melotron called Brubackin 6 MK1. I played you that loop because I can't afford the rights to whatever the hell it is that is number one on the charts today. And why would I play you that specific slice of modern cheese if I could afford it? Because today is the day that I take you behind the scenes of the upcoming season of Disgraceland. On this episode, we preview our stories on Lady Gaga, Mia Zapata and the Gits, Johnny Thunders, and more. I'm Jake Brennan and this is a special behind the scenes look into the next season of Disgrace. All right, guys, I'm trying something new today. In the past, we used to only release 24 episodes per year and we could have Seasons of Disgrace Land. And for each season, I'd make an announcement and reveal which artists we were covering and we'd all discuss online all those cases and, you know, which other artists you guys wanted covered in upcoming seasons. But Ever since we evolved our release schedule a couple years ago to being always on, there really aren't any seasons anymore. It's kind of just one big ongoing season, which, if I'm being honest, kind of took from me. One of the things that I really liked about Disgraceland, which was having the space to announce and discuss the upcoming subjects. So that's what we're going to do here today, and we're going to do it four times a year, every quarter. But it's going to be more than an announcement. It's going to be a behind the scenes look at the show, a discussion on the artists and the crimes and the production of the stories that we put together. This conversation is going to happen at first between Szeth and I, and then we're going to bring in all of you as well, and we're going to give you a peek into how we choose these subjects. Now, you can also help be a part of this selection process in more of a formal way on Patreon. And as we get into the formal selection of these artists throughout the year, we'll give you guys who aren't Patreon All Access members. Like I said, we'll give you a peek into that process right here in these behind the Scenes episodes. So let's get started and let me bring you Back to Hollywood. 1975. Down on Sunset Boulevard, latchkey kids from the suburbs were gravitating to Rodney's English Disco ground zero for all things glam and glitter and best of all, transgressive. Carrie Chrome climbed out of the car and slammed the door shut and watched as the strangers who'd given her a lift drove off into the distance. She had no idea how she'd get back home, but who cared? She wasn't going back there. This was the place. And these were her people. The girls who looked like boys and boys who looked like girls. The rooster hair, the rhinestones, the sequins and platform heels. All of its soundtrack not by Captain and Tenille or the Fucking Eagles, but by the New York Dolls, T. Rex the Sweet, and that preeminent badass of leather clad rock and roll, Susie Quatro. Carrie took it all in, and for the first time in a long time, she felt at ease. But it wasn't enough to simply be there in the crowd. Keri Crone would be an active participant. She wanted to be the one to write the songs of tomorrow, the ones local legend DJ Chucky Starr would spin for this glamorous crowd. It was a crowd that on any Given night included everyone from Robert and Bonzo of Led Zeppelin to Ray and Dave of the Kinks, to the once boy King himself, Elvis Presley. Who knows, she could run into Iggy Pop or Elton John and slip them a page of her lyrics. Maybe even David Bowie himself. But it wasn't Bowie or Iggy or Elton that Carrie Crone met when she went to Hollywood. Instead, she was introduced to another songwriter and music producer, a man named Kim Folly. Foley's resume was scattershot but impressive. He'd written for Warren Zevon, Alice Cooper in the Byrds, and produced songs by Gene Vincent and Jonathan Richmond. But what really mattered to Carrie was that he seemed genuinely interested in her songs. He said she had real talent and that with his guidance, she could be somebody, somebody else. And so, on her 14th birthday, Carrie Chrome signed a contract with the 36 year old Kim Foley. All right, that is a live excerpt from our upcoming episode on the Runaways in Kim Folly. The Runaways was of course, Joan Jett and Lita Ford's first band. I mentioned Joan Jett and Lita Ford by name because they went on to have prominent careers after the Runaways. Now covering the Runaways is something that I've been planning on doing since I started Disgrace land back in 2018. But I always shied away from it because of how dark the subject matter is. And I kind of had this, this other idea, a fun way to cover this story. I know people who knew Kim Foley, who worked with him, and I always got this, this weird feedback that he was a vampire. And I thought it would be funny to produce a show that literally cast Kim Foley as some sort of actual real life Hollywood vampire. But the subject matter here is too real, it's too raw, it's too fucked up that taking that tone would have been a mistake. This is one of the first all female rock groups of consequence. And because of that alone, there's a lot to be celebrated in this story. But there's a darkness here that is just gross. It's not something that I necessarily wanted to have my head submerged into during weeks of research. So I, I passed it off to our colleague Zeth Lundy here and had him do it. Seth, you actually researched and wrote this story, so give us a peek into the darkness. But first of all, how you doing, my man?

[Zeth Lundy]

I'm doing great. I'm glad to be out of the darkness and in the light with you right now. And just looking at this slate of subjects we have coming up this year, I'm just really excited for the stories we're going to tell.

[Jake Brennan]

Awesome. Yeah, I'm pumped too. I feel like this year I made a conscious effort to really focus on female artists as much as we can. And there's always been this gender imbalance in our story episode subjects, because the best stories that we tell are the ones that are. They're. They're reckoning stories. They're stories about an artist behaving very badly and doing a bunch of transgressive true crime, etc. Just on balance, from music history, there's not a lot of women who fit that bill. There are some, and we've covered them all, I think, or most of them. But we kind of found a way to tell stories about more female artists that are at least transgressive. They're involved in transgressions. Things have been happened. Things have happened to them, which gets us into the story and it just allowed us to kind of up the quantity of female artists that we can cover. And you're definitely going to see that in 2026. But back to the runaway. Seth, give me a one sentence description on this runaway story.

[Zeth Lundy]

I think this is a story about the transformative power of rock and roll, like how you can use it to literally become somebody else to escape the dullness of everyday life. But it's also about the flip side of that, the price that you have to pay for that kind of escape. The manipulation and exploitation that is often at the center of the music business.

[Jake Brennan]

Like I said when I was teeing this story up, there's a lot of exploitation. You just mentioned exploitation. And we could have focused solely on that and the grossness of it.

[Zeth Lundy]

Right.

[Jake Brennan]

And I'll just say there's a quote in this story from a writer from Rolling, not from Rolling Stone. He goes on to be the editor of Rolling Stone. A real serious dude. I'm not going to burn his name here. And what he says in a review of a live runaway show about the band is, honestly, if. If I were writing this script for a Hollywood movie and I turned in this quote to depict a skeevy rock guy from the 1970s, it would get rejected because it's too over the top. Yeah, it's hard to believe that it was even printed. And it was printed by. Was it printed by Cream at the time, Seth, or was it printed by Crawdaddy? I think it was Crawdaddy, actually, now that I say it.

[Zeth Lundy]

The even grosser thing though, Jake, is that the more you dig into the research on this, that that wasn't like an Exception to the norm. That was like the way that. That. That rock critics wrote at the time and the way that women were. Were looked at and objectified. And it makes it even skeezier that they were all underage.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah, I mean, we haven't mentioned that yet, I don't think. But, you know, she was. Carrie Cron was 14 years old when this was going on, and the other members of the band were like, 15, 16.

[Zeth Lundy]

Yeah.

[Jake Brennan]

Just. Just. It's unbelievable. It's truly shocking. It's truly revealing and revelatory and gross and just disgusting. So there's. There's that. Which is criminal enough.

[Zeth Lundy]

Right.

[Jake Brennan]

And we get into those crimes. Sex crimes. Yep. But it's not the whole story. Give me more of the true crime backstory here to the Runaways.

[Zeth Lundy]

I mean, you touched on another aspect of it in the. In that reading from the script, which is this, you know, the transgressive, slash, like, illegal nature of the scene that they came out of, which was a scene where teenagers were partying with adult rock stars at clubs in LA all the time. And then there's a. There's a major bust in England when the entire band is arrested and thrown in jail. And then there's the life of crime that one member of the Runaways was forced to live later on when the band broke up.

[Jake Brennan]

Which is really sad.

[Zeth Lundy]

It is very sad because all she wanted was for the band to continue on forever and for that to be her thing, and then it was taken away from her and she had a really hard time coping with that.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah. Yeah, it's a fucking bummer. We're sort of unintentional music historians. We never really set out for this job, and we have. We come to these stories with a ton of knowledge, both specific and general. And I knew the Runaways story loosely. I'd never read a book on the Runaways. I haven't seen the movie with.

[Zeth Lundy]

I didn't. I didn't watch it either.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah, sometimes it's good to not watch the biopics because you don't want to fall in the same storytelling way. But I knew enough. I knew enough about the Runaways. I knew a lot about the Runaways. But as is always the case, we try in our episodes to dig revealing facts out of the research that you guys might not know, even if you are music historians yourself or music fans. So, Zeth, give us. Give us one sort of like, truly revealing kind of. Oh, man, I didn't know that fact or anecdote from this story.

[Zeth Lundy]

This one's Kind of funny, actually. The fact that Robert Plant of Led Zeppelin was responsible for this arrest in England. I mean, he was responsible in a way. I won't burn it here, but Joan Jett definitely blamed him for what happened. And you can hear all about that in the episode.

[Jake Brennan]

And you gotta take the context. I'm not gonna burn the story here either, but the context is super rich because the Runaways, you know, even though they had a moment, they're still. They're still an obscure band and they're palling around with Robert Plant, who's literally the biggest rock star on the planet at the time. So the sort of like fame and power imbalance here, and to think that Robert Plant is responsible for what happens to them in this situation is super annoying from Joan Jett's perspective.

[Zeth Lundy]

Absolutely.

[Jake Brennan]

All right, so check that out.

[Sponsor Announcer]

That's.

[Jake Brennan]

This Runaways episode is one of the first ones we're going to be releasing in 2026. I'm excited for you guys to hear it. I'm excited for you to hear all the episodes we're releasing. We're, you know, kind of looking at this seasonally, even though we're always on. So, you know, seasonally we're talking about, I guess, you know, 10, 12 episodes per season. I don't even know what season we're on right now. It's like a 27 or something insane like that.

[Zeth Lundy]

Something like that, yeah.

[Jake Brennan]

Anyhow, we're going to get back with the rest of the episodes and talk more about it and dive a little bit more behind the scenes right after this.

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[Zeth Lundy]

Same extra value meals at McDonald's, so now get two snack wraps plus fries.

[Jake Brennan]

And a medium soft drink for just.

[Zeth Lundy]

$8 for a limited time. Prices and participation May vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California. And for delivery.

[Jake Brennan]

Okay, Zeth Lundy, if I were to ask you which modern day female artist is the subject of one of the most batshit crazy conspiracy theories that you could actually conjure up, which female artist would you guess that was?

[Zeth Lundy]

There's one in the upcoming mini episode of the Runaways. The Runaways mini episode about Joan Jett and a church that worships her, supposedly. But even better than that, maybe that one about Beyonce and Jay Z being like, leaders of the Illuminati. There's all kinds of hidden symbolism in her work.

[Jake Brennan]

That's not a conspiracy theory. That's actually true.

[Zeth Lundy]

So I'm glad we settled that here.

[Jake Brennan]

No need to even talk about that. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Don't clip that. No, it's not Beyonce, though. That is crazy. And that. That would actually make for a good episode.

[Zeth Lundy]

Yeah, for sure.

[Jake Brennan]

I have a hard time with conspiracy theorists who are just like, I have friends like this. There's obviously you can't avoid these folks online who are just. They're just always diving deeper into whatever the fucking YouTube portal wormhole is, but they're really like at. At most an inch deep on the actual research. You know what I mean?

[Zeth Lundy]

Right.

[Jake Brennan]

You know what I'm saying?

[Zeth Lundy]

Yeah, I do.

[Jake Brennan]

One crazy source does not make for a legitimate conspiracy theory. So on the one hand, I'm super annoyed by that. On the other hand, I'm equally annoyed by people who are just like, who won't entertain any conspiracies because the pattern from history is so obvious that yesterday's conspiracies end up being today's historical record. It's happened over and over again, and I've talked about it so much, so I'm not going to do more of that. So I have these, like, twin annoyances, Right. On the one hand, the conspiracy theorists annoy the shit out of me. On the other hand, the people who just dismiss conspiracies annoy the shit out of me almost. Even more. So. Those people are almost more annoying to me.

[Zeth Lundy]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jake Brennan]

Because it indicates a, a lack of curiosity, which to me is. Is right up there with like, one of the most unattractive qualities a person can have is to just be. To. To not be curious. I can't stand that. It's so boring. It's like, what are we going to do? Just make small talk at the kids football game? You know what I mean? Like, what are we doing? I can't stand it. So, okay, so hold On. I have a point here. There's a middle. There is a middle that we don't explore enough, where we should be able to look at conspiracies objectively and try to pull apart whether or not they're true and damn the shit out of them if they're false. And to me, what is more interesting than the reckoning piece of it, than the judgment piece of it? What's more interesting to me is why did these conspiracy theories take root? What is the root of it? Is it just for clicks, or is it based in some sort of cultural insecurity or fear or whatever? So the why of the conspiracy, even if the conspiracy is false, is as interesting to me, almost as interesting as if the conspiracy were true. Okay, so that's where I'm coming from with this story that we're going to do on one of the biggest female artists in pop music history who's still rocking right now. And my dog Dusty is a big fan, as you can hear, she's a big fan of Lady Gaga.

[Zeth Lundy]

All right, okay, okay.

[Jake Brennan]

This conspiracy theory is completely messed up. And again, let's. Let's just be super clear. I'm not saying that this conspiracy theory about Lady Gaga is true. We are simply looking into the theory in this episode. We're looking into why it sprung up. We're looking into what the backstory is, and the backstory is incredible. And I'm a little shocked at how underreported this story is. I think if Lady Gaga was, like, 20% less famous, this would be a much bigger story.

[Zeth Lundy]

Okay, but wait, wait a minute. Hold on. I don't even know what this is all about. What's the story? What's the theory here?

[Jake Brennan]

All right, okay, all right. I don't even know where to start.

[Zeth Lundy]

You're like Joe Pesci in Lethal Weapon 3 or 2. Okay, okay, okay, all right, all right, okay.

[Jake Brennan]

There have been online always, these rumors about. About Lady Gaga's origin story, where she came from as an artist. Okay? There's a woman named Yana Morgana, and she had a daughter, Lena Morgana. And Lena Morgana was friends with Lady Gaga back when Lady Gaga was starting out. And Yana Morgana claims that Gaga stole her whole trip from her daughter, Lena Morgana. Lady Gaga stole her musical style, her fashion, basically her entire artistic Persona is the claim, not my claim, not my claim to be clear. But I'm interested in this claim because back in 2008, at just 19 years old, Lena Morgana killed herself. Lady Gaga's friend.

[Zeth Lundy]

Okay?

[Jake Brennan]

Now, there are people who don't believe that Lina Morgana killed herself. They actually believe that Lady Gaga killed Lena Morgana. And to be clear, I don't think that happened.

[Zeth Lundy]

Right.

[Jake Brennan]

I do not believe that. But this story won't die. It's a Reddit circus. There's a ton of wormholes. They're very big, and I'm fascinated.

[Blue Apron Announcer]

I.

[Jake Brennan]

Again, I don't believe Lady Gaga killed anybody, but I remain open to the possibility that anything is possible. And I'm going to dive into the subject and see where it leads me, and we're either going to find out if it's true. Again, I don't think we're going to find out that it's true.

[Zeth Lundy]

Right.

[Jake Brennan]

Or we're going to reveal. We're going to reveal why the conspiracy is a conspiracy and where it came from. And the fascinating details around the conspiracy are what's honestly most interesting to me. There are some crazy similarities here and there are. You know, when you look at what these people are claiming, they're actually not just. It's not like. This isn't like flat earth stuff, you know, it's actually. It's rooted in. How do I say this without sounding like a conspiracy theorist? See, this is difficult, which is in part why I like it. The theory is rooted in some truths. Okay? That does not mean that the theory is true. There are two different things, and I want to objectively look at this and find out why this. This type of theory could even take root. And we're going to do it all, of course, by doing what we do, while giving our own biographical take on Lady Gaga as an artist. Lady Gaga is fascinating to me as an artist, for sure. There's a lot of her music that I like. I don't. I don't consider myself a fan. I'm not. But, you know, I hear stuff now and then I'm like, that's fucking great. Yeah. As a person, she's always interested me because she's incredibly talented beyond. I mean, as an entertainer. You know what I'm saying?

[Zeth Lundy]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Jake Brennan]

Of course, I don't like Barbra Streisand's music, but Barbra Streisand comes on screen and I just go, oh, shit. Yeah, I'm watching this. This is great. You know what I mean? And then I spend 20 minutes trying to figure out if it's Barbra Streisand or Bette Midler, because I was confused. The two in my head. You have those things from when you're a kid where you just, like, you mix people up. You mix them up when you were five years old, and you can't stop mixing them up.

[Zeth Lundy]

Yeah, of course. Of course.

[Jake Brennan]

I had a theory when I was a little kid. I remember I went to a new school in the fourth grade, and it was connected to this Barbra Streisand and Bette Midler thing. I would group celebrities in my head. I would get them confused because they were similar to me for whatever reason. And then I went to this new school, and I started to notice that these. These kids look just like kids at my old school. This is fourth grade. And I started to think, like, maybe we're just like breeds of dogs, you know? Or maybe we're just like, you know, we're all kind of like, you know, you get your boxers and then you get your cocker spaniels.

[Zeth Lundy]

Sure.

[Jake Brennan]

And they're different dogs. They're different people. They all kind of look alike. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know, and then it kind of evolved into, like, well, maybe that's what our. That's. That's. You know, what the. The supreme being who runs the algorithm has created. Just little. Little cohorts of people who all look the same and do the same thing anyhow.

[Zeth Lundy]

Conspiracy theories.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah. Way, way off track. I don't actually believe that people. Um, Zeff, this story, the Gaga story, reminds me of a couple of our past episodes, like the Nirvana episode. You know, talk about behind the scenes. That's the purpose of this. The Nirvana episode. When I went into the research, I went into the research thinking, yeah, okay, there's a possibility that the soaked in bleach stuff and Courtney Love had something to do with his. You know, I was open to it.

[Zeth Lundy]

Right, Right.

[Jake Brennan]

And then I did the research, and I was completely closed to. Just didn't happen. People. I'm sorry. I saw. Soaked in bleach. I've seen. We have. We have literally a dossier of. Of supposedly incriminating evidence on Courtney Love that isn't actually incriminating. There's too. There's too much. And I. Every time I talk about this, it pisses people off, and I get angry letters, but I don't care. I believe it in my court. I don't believe Courtney Love kill Kurt Cobain. And if. And if I did believe it, I would say it, but the research doesn't point to that.

[Zeth Lundy]

Yeah.

[Jake Brennan]

And so I came out of that episode just feeling like I felt now, conversely, I went into the Mamas and Papas Charles Manson story, and I was. I I didn't believe that Charles Manson was a CIA asset. And then I came out of that research and I 100% now believe that Charles Manson was a CIA asset. I believe in the MK Ultra theory because the research supports it. That's what I love about this job, you know, is, is, is getting to a new place in our thinking based on the facts. Seth, do you have examples of this from your research? I'm curious. We have literally never asked you this question before and we talk every day.

[Zeth Lundy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sure you do.

[Jake Brennan]

Let me know.

[Zeth Lundy]

Well, the first one that comes to mind is certainly the entire Wu Tang season that I researched and wrote. That 10 episode season I knew a little bit about. I knew that the FBI had a file on them, just like the FBI has files on so many other musicians over history since the days of Jimi Hendrix. Right?

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah.

[Zeth Lundy]

But I was shocked, first of all to find out how deep it went that the feds were literally classifying the Wu Tang Clan as a. What they call a 281F, which is a major criminal organization. Like they were the Mafia, right? And then on top of that, there was this wild reporting from the Village Voice about one of the group's members being an FBI informant during that time. So obviously all that was kind of turned what I knew about this whole thing on its head. And it was incredible fodder for storytelling. And then the second one that comes to mind would be the one that I just recently researched and wrote, which is about how Johnny Thunders died, which is coming out next week.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah, we're going to get to that just in just a second. The Wu Tang thing. I don't want to make this political and I, I hope people don't take this as being political. The file on Wu Tang Clan is, It's ridiculous. The f. The government effort to surveil and watch Wu Tang Clan is ridiculous. Was ridiculous. It was a giant waste of money. Even if they were up to no good, it shouldn't have risen, it shouldn't have rose to the level of the federal government. Right? And this to me is just an example of what happens when you have, you have people in positions of power who are just fucking bored and need something to do, you know what I'm saying? Like, like literally that's what this is, you know, like how about at the time, dude, like looking into, I don't know, the Bin Laden's or some shit you might have, you know what I mean? And it just strikes me as, as what happens when bureaucracy gets too Fucking big. And resources are misallocated because it's not like people sitting around. It's not like the government is sitting around talking about conspiracy theories, the federal government, the FBI sitting around like going, oh, let's get those hip hop guys. You know what I mean? It's some person who's bored trying to make a name for themselves.

[Zeth Lundy]

Right?

[Jake Brennan]

You know, well, you shouldn't have that person bored on payroll in the first place. And this wouldn't happen. And it's just it. It continues to go on, and it's frustrating and aggravating. Unlike the Johnny Thunders story, which we have coming up, which I think is the. Yeah, that's the first episode that's coming up.

[Zeth Lundy]

It's coming up next week.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah, next week. And this one's connected to another. Another. Another myth. I don't want to say conspiracy. I will say myth. And we'll tell you about it in a second right after this. We'll be right back after this. Word. Word. All right, Zeth Lundy, we are back. And listen, there's a large contingent of music history nerds like ourselves who believe that Johnny Thunders from the New York Dolls was murdered. That came out wrong. Music history nerds like ourselves who believe that. Not necessarily saying we believe that, but we heard about this and we wanted to dig into it and we wanted to figure out, okay, is this true? Is this not true? So without giving away the whole story, what can you tell us about the New York Dolls, Johnny Thunders, and number one, number two, about your approach to writing this story?

[Zeth Lundy]

Okay, so Johnny Thunders was found dead in a hotel room in New Orleans in 1991. He was 38. He struggled with addiction his whole life. So the cops basically took one look at the scene and said, dead junkie, case closed. But there were all these other factors surrounding the last day and night of his life. Like, he had literally just flown into town. He. I think he was in Europe or Asia before that, touring. He flew into town that day. He met some local people that he didn't know. They went out, they partied. Some weird shit happened before and after his body was found. And because of this and because the cops refused to look into any of this weird shit, people like Dee Dee Ramon, who knew Johnny well, began disseminating this counter narrative that he was didn't overdose, but that he was in fact murdered. And the cops needed to look into this. And so I went into the research, like, excited to dig into this counter narrative because there's a lot of stuff out There about it from legit sourcing. So that's how I ended up writing this is. I wrote it from the perspective that this counter narrative, this theory could be valid. And of course the fun part is how where it goes and how it ends, which is totally surprising, I think. And I think the listeners will really dig it.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah. This is one of those stories reminded me of a little bit of the Sid and Nancy story where there is always this sort of like burbling in the scene about what action actually happened. Right. And who was responsible. And it wasn't really documented. And I thought, oh, this is similar again, I don't want to burn it here.

[Zeth Lundy]

Yeah.

[Jake Brennan]

But it's, it's fascinating. Johnny Thunders is just quite literally the most rock and roll guy of all time. And the myth around his death. He should have a myth surrounding his death.

[Sponsor Announcer]

For sure.

[Jake Brennan]

He should. Yeah. So we're going to get into that and it's hard to talk about here without burning. And one thing, a little more behind the scenes thing that I'm struggling with with this episode is what we're going with the music. Because when we talk about punk artists or metal artists or even rock or hard rock, there's a tendency, and I learned this in the Guns N Roses episode production to, you know, use music that is. That sounds similar to what the artist was making. And for whatever reason, heavy music or at least like, yeah, just heavy guitar oriented music does not sound good in our production with vo, it just doesn't work. Whereas electronic music, hip hop music, dominated beat type music sounds fantastic. So it's like, guys, we always try to do this thing where we've learned our lesson where we take the artist that we're talking about and we try to put them through the Massive Attack machine, which is, you know, okay, take. So, so take the. The right way to score a Metallica episode is not to try to make music that sounds like Metallica. It's to take Metallica's influence and run it through the influence of Massive Attack. Totally always Massive Attack. Because Massive Attack has this like super vibey electronic menace to it. And it's just served us well. So there's no way we can make New York Dolls Johnny Thunder style music work. And I had this idea like we should do something. We've already kind of taken the New York Dolls music and run it through the Massive Attack thing in the New York Dolls episode. This is gonna be part two, Johnny Thunders. So I was thinking we should take New Orleans music. Cause Johnny Thunders dies in New Orleans. We should take like.

[Zeth Lundy]

He wanted to make a New Orleans record, too.

[Jake Brennan]

He wanted to make a New Orleans record. So take Alan Toussaint, that kind of New Orleans vibe, and treat it with that menacing Massive Attack thing for this. For this episode. I think that could be cool, right?

[Zeth Lundy]

Yeah, for sure.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah. All right, well, maybe we'll fuck with that somehow. Or we could just use Tom Petty and the Heartbreaker's Sound of Music and piss Johnny Thunders off.

[Zeth Lundy]

People will get that joke when they hear the episode.

[Jake Brennan]

Yes. Yeah, there's a heavy Tom Petty vibe in the Johnny Thunders episode. That's not good. All right. Murder is at the heart of all the episodes that we've discussed so far. One of the most requested episodes we've had since the show started was to do something on Mia Zapata from the Gits. I've always shied away from this story similar to the runaway story for a bunch of different reasons. But we decided this year was the year we're going to tell the Mia Zapata story. Now, guys, what often happens is Seth and I aren't being lazy. We'll have editorial meetings around each episode where we'll get together and talk about, you know, what we know, just without any research. What we know of the artists, what we know of the crime, certain themes we might want to explore, things we know we want mentioned. And then we'll go off into the research and we'll pull it all together. And we used to meet after the research before recording. We don't even really do that anymore. We're just kind of. We got it so dialed in. We haven't yet had that meeting on, on Miya Zapata in the Gits. And we figured that we'll do some of the editorial work behind the scenes work here for you guys. Seth. So, you know, we were gonna do a call about this this week and I said, no, wait, let's don't burn it. Let's do it. Let's do it when we. When we tape this thing. So give me your questions on me as a pot and we'll try and work our way through this real quick.

[Zeth Lundy]

Well, this is. I'm just gonna brain dump what I'm thinking here. Based on the research I've done, there's an obvious way to tell the story, right? And that's with Miya Zapata's brutal, shocking murder. You know, it happened right after Stephanie Sargent of Seven Year Bitch died and then right before Kurt Cobain. But in a way, it has this. The bigger Ripple effect in the nucleus of that music scene, the indie scene in Seattle. First of all, it tragically happened right after the Gets went down to la, met with Atlantic Records, and Atlantic was basically like, we're going to give you guys a deal. And then in the wake of this, a lot of bands in their circle broke up. There was a lot of paranoia and suspicion because all these guys in their. In their crews and their bands were being brought in by the cops for questioning.

[Jake Brennan]

Like, yeah, the investigation focused on her friends at first, who are all musicians in the Seattle music scene or connected to the Seattle music scene, that they weren't musicians. And it should be mentioned. This is 1993. This is the height of the grunge explosion. And Mia Zapata from the Gits was not like any. Just any old band. They were like a real band in the scene. They were friends with, you know, Soundgarden, Mud Honey, all those folks. So it's, you know, it's. That's the backdrop here.

[Zeth Lundy]

Yeah, thank you for that context. And so I think everyone kind of thought that it was somebody that they knew. And then when the murderer was. I mean, the murderer was. Was. Wasn't caught for, like, 10 years. And so when he finally was, it took everybody by surprise because they figured it was someone that. That. That Mia had known, someone that they all knew. And there's this random dude who, like, split for Florida after it happened. This takes place in the very early years of DNA helping to solve a crime.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah, that's huge.

[Zeth Lundy]

Yeah, it was taken at the crime scene, stored for years until it was able to be analyzed and added to the FBI's database. Now that that all said, the other thing I wanted to point out, Jake, was that the drummer for the band for the Gets, Steve Moriarty, he just published a new book recently about the band and about Mia. And his primary motivation was that he was sick of hearing about Mia's murder. He was sick of having the tabloid nature of the crime overshadow the excellence of the group and Mia herself. And so he barely even touches on the murder in the book. It's more about her and about them. And so I think what I want to do with this episode, and this is what I wanted to talk to you about, is strike this balance between what is our bread and butter here, which is music, and true crime. But also do it in a way that we're not sensationalizing it and that we're truly memorializing her for who she was, you know, so if, like, any of the guys in the Gits happened to hear this episode, they would be like, oh, yeah, like these guys got it. They got it. Right?

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah, absolutely. Because there is a documentary on her and there's like, you know, three of those sort of like, you know, 48 hours TV, true crime things, IDTV. And I don't want to do anything like any of that. And I haven't seen the doc, but I don't. You have seen the doc. So, you know, we need our own point of view on this that I want to take. And she's a fascinating character and I'm sure this will be in the book you're talking about because she was kind of like a double kid. She was a rich kid who. Or you know, at least, you know, very upper middle class who grew up in that world of, you know, tennis clubs and whatever.

[Zeth Lundy]

And then her mom was like a tv. A high ranking TV executive who lived in like a penthouse apartment overlooking Central Park, I think.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah. And then she ends up going to Seattle and lives sort of the. I don't want to say grunge lifestyle, but the rock and roll kind of like. Like she lived it. I mean, it was real.

[Zeth Lundy]

Yeah.

[Jake Brennan]

And there's a, you know, people will be like, oh, you're faking it, or that's bullshit. That's. You know, people are who they are. Doesn't matter where they come from.

[Zeth Lundy]

Right.

[Jake Brennan]

You can be whoever the fuck you want. I mean, that's the point of this Runaways episode too. But there's an interesting psychology there, which would be cool to. To crack into. Yeah. And to treat the rape and the murder with the sensitivity that it deserves. There's some really interesting things, guys. So normally when we would do this, I would point out to Seth, like, okay, here are some things that I know about this that I want represented in this, if I'm not writing it. The medical examiner. So when she was killed that she was so badly abused that. And just the body, they didn't know who she was. And it took a couple days. And the medical examiner was a fan of the Gitz and that's how the body was recognized. Like, he actually was like, oh, it was somebody who worked in the medical examiner's office. If I. I'm remembering correctly. He was. He was like, oh, oh God, I know who this is.

[Zeth Lundy]

Oh, I didn't. Haven't even turned that up in my research yet. That's fascinating. I'll look into that.

[Jake Brennan]

I think that's a scene for sure. Maybe it opens with something like that. And. And there's Just there has to be something like the theme. I don't know what themes we're going to get into, but it could be the theme or just a sub theme of the community rallying around her.

[Zeth Lundy]

Yep.

[Jake Brennan]

Afterward. Because they did.

[Zeth Lundy]

Yes.

[Jake Brennan]

They raised their own money, they hired a private investigator. I'm sure all that is covered, you know, ad nauseam because it's obvious, but it needs to be mentioned. And then the other thing is, I think sonically what I want to do with it. They say what I've read anyways is that she was walking down the street like 2am before she was attacked and she didn't hear the killer coming because she had headphones on. And that's how the killer was able to get the drop on her. I think it would be cool if we do something with the music in this episode where, remember, remember, like old school Sony headphones, like the little orange, you know, cushiony things.

[Zeth Lundy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Brennan]

And it's. Doesn't seem to happen anymore with earbuds, but back then you could really hear when somebody was like pumping music. You know, if you're. Somebody's walking by with headphones, you could like hear them. You hear the bleed.

[Zeth Lundy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jake Brennan]

We should do that in sonically, like make that a audio device. Part of the score is that that headphone bleed and try to do like a Hitchcockian thing with that during the, during the, the lead up to the death. And I don't want to dramatize the death.

[Zeth Lundy]

No, I don't either.

[Jake Brennan]

Beyond that, I really. I think your. Your instincts are dead on. We want to, we want to make this about her. Yep, Yep. All right, so that's going to be the Mia Zapata episode. Great.

[Zeth Lundy]

That's. That's all great for me to go on. Perfect.

[Jake Brennan]

All right, dope, guys. If you have any other thoughts on how we should treat this GITZ episode, get at us because we got a little time before we get into the production and let us know. 617-906-6638. Voicemail and text at Disgraceland Pod on the socials or disgracelandpodgmail.com on email. We'd love your input and we'd love to include some of it if it's. If it's relevant, makes sense for the story we decide we want to tell. All right. Right, we're gonna take a quick break. Back right after this. All right, guys, we are back. Thanks for hanging with us in this sort of. I don't even know, behind the scenes. Look at this. Graceland I don't know what we're calling this, but that sounds good enough to me. I meant to get at us any thoughts you have on any of these episodes as we're in pre production. If you want to lend your voice and lend your take, happy to hear it. In addition to the Runaways, Lady Gaga, Johnny Thunders and Mia Zapata, next season we're also releasing episodes on Hunter S. Thompson, which will be our last public release of a non music subject in Disgraceland. That experiment will officially be over. We're gonna do a second episode on In Excess because there's this way more there that we need to tell. Chrissy Hine from the Pretenders and Pete Daugherty from the Libertines. Those are all coming up in this next season of Disgrace. And finally, we have this new concept that we're gonna try out in Disgraceland as well this year. I've long been obsessed with murder ballads. You guys who know me, you know this. And I wanted to do this show forever. And we're going to look at one. It's a slightly askew look at music in true crime. It's not from the perspective necessarily of the artist, but it's from the perspective of the song. And much like we did in the Derek and the Dominoes episode with the Lawson family murder, we're going to look at in these, you know, at least one Disgraceland episode per month or so, we will look at one song that was either inspired by a true crime or inspired a true crime, and we'll look at the killer connected to that. So think Talking Heads and the Son of Sam or Cockeye Billy Cook and Jim Morrison or Charles Manson and Helter Skelter. We probably won't do that because we've done a lot of Manson content. But just there's. This is endless fodder. This is unofficially being called Dead Notes. And these, these will be like special features in Disgraceland that you guys are going to get. All right, guys, listen. Get us your subjects that you want us to cover. 617-906-6638. Voicemail texts@gracelandpod on the social scrampod gmail.com email, let us know which artists you want us to cover. You guys are good at it. You've been doing it forever. Keep doing it and we'll talk more about it in here. We're also doing this thing over on Patreon, which if you're part of our $10 tier, you're gonna, in addition to getting this film, should be played loud. Our new video podcast every month. You're also going to gain access to sort of these special twice yearly round tables where we get on a zoom together and we formally discuss which episodes we're going to cover and we choose them, select them or select a large handful of them. So that way you will have, you'll be guaranteed to have direct influence on the show. And some of that, we'll take some of that content we create in, during that process and some of it will be reflected in these, in these behind the scenes episodes that we're rolling out for you guys. So that's another way for you to be involved. Appreciate the involvement, love the community we have. Guys. Thank you so much. Z, thanks for your time, man. I know it's a busy time of year.

[Zeth Lundy]

Appreciate you digging in anytime.

[Jake Brennan]

Guys. Thank you so much again. Thanks for supporting us on Patreon on Apple Podcasts, just being fans of the show. Love you guys. Have a great day. Talk soon. All right guys, thanks for rolling with us on a special episode of Disgrace Land. Question of the Week this week is obvious. What artists, which subjects do you want us to cover next? Get out of 617-906-6638 voicemail and text. We'll dive deep into it in this week's afterparty. Get into some specifics, guys. If you're listening on Apple podcasts, make sure you have auto Downloads turned on 617-90-66638 Voicemail text at DisgraceLandPod on the socials, here comes some credits. Disgraceland was created by yours truly and is produced in partnership with with double Elvis. Credits for this episode can be found on the show notes [e-mail] Rate and review the show and follow us on Instagram, Tik Tok, Twitter and Facebook Disgracelandpod and on [e-mail] Disgracelandpod Rocka Rolla He's a bad, bad man.