CHROMAKOPIA is here (and it's really good)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dissect Episode - "CHROMACOPIA is here (and it's really good)"

Introduction In this special episode of Dissect, hosted by Cole Kushna from The Ringer, he is joined by longtime friend Camden Ostrander to explore Tyler the Creator's highly anticipated eighth studio album, ChromaCopia. Released on October 28th, 2024, this episode delves into their first impressions, favorite tracks, standout features, and an initial dissection of the album's themes and symbolism.

First Listening Experience Cole and Cam share their initial reactions to ChromaCopia, highlighting the unique release strategy of dropping the album on a Monday morning rather than the traditional Sunday night midnight release.

Cole Kushna explains his personal experience:

“[00:25] I ended up getting up early, like an hour earlier than I usually get up. And I just sat in my living room essentially with the window kind of. It was like the sunrise. So it had kind of a romantic setting. I just sat there listening with headphones on, taking it all in.”

Camden Ostrander recounts a more intense first listen:

“[01:50] It was like almost too much in the morning. You know what I mean? Like, the maximalism of the whole thing, everything going on. I extended my car ride... I almost crashed the car because I, like, I couldn’t believe what was happening.”

Their differing experiences set the stage for a rich discussion about the album's depth and complexity.

The Sonics: Sound and Production The duo praises the album's sonic landscape, noting its maximalist approach and seamless integration of diverse musical elements.

Camden articulates:

“[04:51] It felt like he was throwing everything together sort of like. I keep thinking like maximal, almost like over stimulating... I feel like that's to me that's what the copia copious like all that stuff that's, to me, what the sound is in the title.”

Cole adds his admiration for the production quality:

“[07:09] It's his most complete sounding record, where it's not leaning one way or another. It's just... very organic. It's not like he was trying to reach for a certain sound. It was just kind of him just giving us who he is as an artist and as a producer.”

They highlight Tyler's growth in musicianship, noting his improved technical skills and layered production techniques that reveal new details with each listen.

Themes and Symbolism ChromaCopia delves into profound themes such as aging, vulnerability, and masculinity, all interwoven with rich symbolism.

Camden reflects on the album's existential undertones:

“[11:07] Tyler talking about getting old and being honest about it. I wasn’t expecting or ready for that. It was like time running out, moving past, but in an actual existential sense.”

Cole expands on the album’s central motif of light:

“[15:00] How do you preserve your light as you age? It's kind of manifested as light, as the essential kind of symbol... it’s a powerful theme.”

They discuss how the concept of light represents staying true to oneself amidst societal and personal pressures, tying back to the album's title ChromaCopia, which signifies abundance and purity in color.

Deep Dive into Specific Songs The conversation shifts to analyzing standout tracks, with a particular focus on "Thought I Was Dead" and "Take Your Mask Off."

"Thought I Was Dead"

• Camden appreciates the song's raw energy and guest features:

  “[25:05] ...it’s about why was I not aimed? Did you guys think I was dead?... Schoolboy Q and Sandogold fit the 'Thought I was Dead' idea perfectly.”

• Cole shares his critical yet appreciative view:

  “[28:06] My song was almost like him. But it's my least favorite and a great album. So it's not like I'm hating on it.”

"Take Your Mask Off"

• Cole provides a mini dissection of the song's structure and thematic elements:

  “[30:16] The chorus is 'I hope you find yourself. I hope you take your mask off.'... The juxtaposition of stern verses with an empathetic chorus creates a powerful narrative.”

• Camden adds insights into the song’s emotional depth and symbolism:

  “[35:35] How dare you try to ruin her marriage. Claim you never wore a mask. And how you don't get embarrassed.”

Favorite Timestamps Both hosts share their favorite specific moments within the album, highlighting the meticulous craftsmanship behind each track.

Camden highlights the impact of Childish Gambino’s feature:

“[36:14] I killed you at 2:16. When I hear Gambino’s vocals, it felt almost too intense, pushing me to the brink of crashing my car.”

Cole points out a pivotal moment in the album's closing track:

“[42:06] ...it's like Tyler in his element... this is the musical expression. It's him figuring all of this out.”

Favorite Features The episode spotlights standout collaborations on the album, particularly Childish Gambino and Dochi.

Childish Gambino (Donald Glover)

• Camden marvels at the collaboration’s significance:

  “[58:23] It’s Childish Gambino... It’s so great this whole year, like, they did Tyler perform Coachella and brought Gambino out.”

• Cole discusses the chemistry and historical context:

  “[37:26] Tyler and Gambino have been on parallel tracks for years, and this collaboration feels like the culmination of their mutual respect.”

Dochi

• Camden praises Dochi’s energetic contribution:

  “[63:36] ...she has a legit verse... 'I air this out like a balloon,' which perfectly complements Tyler’s lines.”

• Cole emphasizes her impactful performance:

  “[64:16] ...she nailed it. It’s her most desired collaboration, so she nailed it.”

Sequencing and Album Structure The hosts admire Tyler’s skillful sequencing, which enhances the album's narrative flow.

Camden shares his favorite song sequence:

“[58:09] ...I killed you into Judge Judy and then I get to play sticky. That sequence is so sick.”

Cole discusses the intentional flow between tracks:

“[62:29] The sequencing was very effective... it gives you a little bit of everything that's on this album.”

They also reflect on Tyler’s breaking of traditional album structures, such as extending the release cadence and avoiding the typical double-track format.

Light Dissections In their initial analysis, Cole and Cam explore the album’s overarching themes, particularly the symbolism of light and the concept of masks representing facets of masculinity.

Cole introduces the thesis derived from "St. Chroma":

“[71:05] ...it's like Tyler is figuring himself out... Do I keep the light on or do I gracefully bow out.”

Camden concurs, reinforcing the album’s thematic core:

“[71:05] ...it serves as a blueprint for the album.”

They theorize that ChromaCopia represents a journey of self-discovery and maintaining one’s authenticity amidst external pressures, with the mother figure symbolizing guidance and support.

Final Thoughts and Conclusions Cole and Camden wrap up the episode by expressing their admiration for ChromaCopia and anticipation for future episodes where they will further dissect its intricate layers.

Cole concludes:

“[84:37] I was excited by it. I'm very impressed... Kendrick, you gotta be next.”

Camden adds:

“[85:08] Thank you for having me. This was wonderful.”

They hint at upcoming episodes focusing on their favorite albums of the year and deeper analyses of ChromaCopia in December, promising listeners more in-depth explorations of Tyler the Creator’s evolving artistry.

Conclusion This episode of Dissect offers a comprehensive and engaging exploration of Tyler the Creator’s ChromaCopia, capturing the hosts' thoughtful insights and highlighting the album’s rich production, thematic depth, and collaborative brilliance. Whether you’re a longtime fan or new to Tyler’s work, this summary provides a detailed overview of why ChromaCopia stands out as a significant work in contemporary music.

Transcript

[Cole Kushna]

Foreign to a special episode of Dissect. I'm your host, Cole Kushna. Today we are doing a first impressions episode on Tyler the Creator's new album, Chromacopia, his eighth studio album. Technically, he counts. The Christmas album was released two days ago on Monday, October 28th. We are recording this on Wednesday, October 30th, just about two days after the album came out. I am joined by longtime friend of the show, Camden Ostrander. We are going to talk about chromatopia, first impressions. We are going to talk about our favorite songs, our favorite moments, our favorite features. We're going to try to do some dissecting, some light dissections of some of the themes and symbolism that I got totally wrong on the rollout pre episode. But, Cam, how are you doing? How are we feeling on this Chromacopia week?

[Camden Ostrander]

It is a beautiful week. I'm doing great. Thanks for having me, Cole. This is the best. We got a beautiful Monday for the first time ever in years.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, I know. We're going to talk about the Monday rollout experience in a second. Well, actually, let's just talk about it now, because what I wanted to start with was our first listening experience because obviously a big deal about this album was that it was released on a Monday morning, not even a Sunday night midnight release. And I was very interested to see how that was going to work personally, but also just generally speaking. So walk me through your. Your first listen, how you listened, and kind of your just first impressions on that first listen. We'll get into more detail about, like, nitty gritty stuff, but just give me your general impressions on the first listen.

[Camden Ostrander]

I mean, first listen for me is Monday commute. Like, I had to go to work.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[Camden Ostrander]

It was like almost too much in the morning. You know what I mean? Like, the. The maximalism of the whole thing, everything going on. I extended my car ride. It's like my. My normal ride is, like, not quite long enough. So I extended that so I could get the whole thing in. Very worth it. I almost crashed the car because I, like, I. Because I couldn't believe what was happening. We'll get to when that happens. But, like, it was. It was incredible. Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Oh, I think I might. I might.

[Camden Ostrander]

I'm pretty sure, you know.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. Okay. We'll get there.

[Camden Ostrander]

How about you?

[Cole Kushna]

So I was originally planning on taking a walk, and then my daughter woke up with strep throat.

[Camden Ostrander]

Okay.

[Cole Kushna]

And so she stayed home sick from school. So I wasn't able to take the solo walk that I was Planning on. So I ended up getting up early, like an hour earlier than I usually get up. And I just sat in my living room essentially with the window kind of. It was like the sunrise. So it had kind of a romantic setting. I just sat there listening with headphones on, taking it all in. Yeah, it was a lot on first listen. By the end of it, I wasn't quite sure what I felt, which I have since learned in my many years of listening to music is usually a good sign when I feel like I didn't quite get the album on the first listen. Those usually end up being my favorite albums where I'm just like, what was that exactly? I haven't really experienced anything quite like that. I will say that my expectations of what this album was going to be were not met. Not in a bad or good way. It was just not what I was expecting given all the rollout elements. If you listen to my pre release episode, I did a lot of speculation. I was absolutely wrong about pretty much everything because I in no way was thinking that this was going to be as introspective and vulnerable and honest as it was considering the theatrics of the rollout, which felt very big and alive and colorful. And there's a lot of mysterious symbolism which you know, could apply in a different way than I. What I was expecting. So. But once I kind of got over my own. That hurdle that. That my own that I put on the album, right. I was expecting this one thing and then you have to just kind of let it be what it is and take it for what it is. And so on the second listen I felt it really started to sink in. I really started to have some like emotional moments with songs like. Like him or even like Tomorrow or even like some of Judge Judy. And I was really feeling the album the second time through where the first. The first listen was a little bit overwhelming and just trying to wrap my hands around it. Right.

[Camden Ostrander]

For sure.

[Cole Kushna]

So yeah, I guess let's start with just the sound of the album. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on. Just let's. Let's set aside themes and lyrics for now, but just the sonics of the album. How are you feeling?

[Camden Ostrander]

I mean this was super cool to me. Like it felt like he was throwing everything together sort of like. I keep thinking like maximal, almost like over stimulating like to like there's so many things happening. So I love like the abundance of it. I feel like that's to me that's what the copia copious like all that stuff that's, to me, what the sound is in the title. And it was cool. Like, he's doing a bunch of different things. I was, like, waiting for the hard song, waiting for him to try singing, like, waiting for it on that first listen. And it was great because I feel like he hit everything sometimes. He did it all at once. As far as the sounds go, I loved it. Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. It's interesting. Like, there is a. A cohesiveness. Not that his past albums haven't had cohesion. They certainly do, and it's so. But I guess all the elements of, like, Flower Boy, all the recent albums, they all have a distinct identity and they all kind of leaned toward one direction, giving us, like, the classic Tyler sound, of course, throughout. But it was like, you know, Igor is gonna lean a little bit more melodic, but there's still that raw musicality. Call Me if youf Get Lost was more. Definitely more hip hop leaning, but also had elements of dance and kind of that tropical kind of luxury vibe. But I feel like this is his most, in terms of production, his most complete sounding record, where it's not leaning one way or another. It's just. You're getting all of what he's great at, and he really just kind of gave us everything in one album. Does that make sense where, like, the other ones you can see, like, okay, he's leaning just more in this world, where this one, I feel like, to your point, about copious and abundance, he kind of just put it all together where it feels very, very seamless and cohesive and has a kind of distinct vision. But there's no. Yeah, it's just not leaning heavily in one direction, which I really enjoyed. It feels like it felt just very organic. It's not like he was trying to reach for a certain sound. It was just kind of him just giving us who he is at as an artist and as a producer right.

[Camden Ostrander]

Now you can see a bunch of, like, the recurring elements from, like, if you pick just things out of all the past ones, like his mom's almost DJ drama now. And, like, there's all these things that he's bringing from all the past work, if you could feel it, which was really nice. Yeah, yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Which, yeah, to me has just been so interesting to follow his career just from a musicianship standpoint and just getting to experience him grow as a musician over the last decade, where he comes in very raw and very young and you any. Especially, you know, in A Wolf or A Cherry Bomb, where he's really reaching for this sound and we get to hear him perfect. It's. Especially since Flower Boy, right? Just really polish and polish and polish and just. He's. There are some moments on this album where the musicianship is just so outstanding, not only in the harmony and the arrangements, but even in his keyboard playing. If he's playing those solos. There are multiple solos that are so impressive on this record. Not it. Not. Not just in its like the technical proficiency of him just like doing runs, like fast fills and runs, which it feels like he's just grown technically as a. As a player. And that's great to hear, but just like him really polishing the musicianship of. Of just his taste. That has always been his strength and the T. His taste and his. And his skill seemingly working on equal ground. Whereas I feel like in his past work the taste always outweighed the skill. And so I don't know if. Does that make sense a little bit.

[Camden Ostrander]

Like, he is coming into his own. Like he's singing more himself. Like, I feel like I feel it in that. I think I get what you're saying that if that makes.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, yeah. I'm probably listening a little bit more as a. As a musician myself and like kind of analyzing just his just technical skill level and just being impressed with it getting better and better and him just getting even better. I will talk about a lot of the features, but he's just getting so good at using features. I wouldn't even call them features. He's using different artists as instruments. All a Kanye and just like, okay, who would be great? I need this sound, I need this texture. Who can I bring in to provide that texture? And he's just getting so good at nailing that. So musically I just was. I've been very, very impressed. Every single listen. I'm finding new details, maybe more than ever. He's always been a producer that really layers his songs with just a ton of detail. And you just hear new things all the time. I'm hearing just the smallest of details where I'm just like, okay, that that sound is only in the song once, but it adds, you know, and who knows how long it takes him to find these little sounds and make them right and mix them in.

[Camden Ostrander]

That's something we talked about with Igor, like, all the time, how he had built it that way. But this, like he just had more time and he just. Yeah, it's a lot, right?

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, the time. Yeah. That's interesting because this was a three year album, not a two year album in terms of release cadence. So he seems like he had an extra year to tinker on it, and it feels like it showed to me. Okay, so let's. Let's talk a little bit about the themes. We're gonna save our. I guess we'll call it. I'm heading dissection.

[Camden Ostrander]

Is that possible?

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, I don't think it's possible at this point. So, like, I want up front here. I want to just be transparent about. I in no way feel like I've, quote, unquote, figured this album out. I want to talk first about just the broader themes of the album. And then at the end of the episode, we're going to kind of go through element by element and try to break down the title again, break down some of the rollout symbols. So that'll be at the end of the episode. But right now, just tell me about your first impressions about just the subject matter of the album.

[Camden Ostrander]

I mean, Tyler talking about getting old and being honest about it. I don't know if I was expecting or ready for that. That was, like, time running out, moving past, but in an actual existential sense, and not just this relationship running out of time. Like, that was blowing me away and still does. It's just overwhelming in that sense. As far as the subject, I think he talked about that a little bit. As far as just him getting older. Right. There's the. The concert clip already of him saying, like, this is him seeing he has gray. He's getting a gray hair and stuff like that, which really, I wasn't, like, prepared as far as expectations go. I wasn't. Wasn't ready for that one. It's nice to see him talk directly about love in some different ways, and I think we've seen before less, like, coded or hidden, and also with, like, masculinity. I think some of, like, some of the symbols that we can see. I think. I think one of the common elements is just, like, being a man or engaging with masculinity a little bit differently because he's always been pretty outspoken about it, and he's always played with it and. But now it feels like he's almost analyzed it a bit or is putting more of the analysis into the music, if that makes any sense.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you have any examples?

[Camden Ostrander]

I think we're going to talk about some of the symbols, but, like, the dogs and the military and in him listening to his mother more like, I. You know, and even him, like, voicing women on the project. Like, he is taking on a voice of a woman and, like, doing that, he is examining his masculinity a bit more. More holistically than I think we've seen more maturely that we've seen before.

[Cole Kushna]

Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll definitely talk about the. The father thread when we get to. To talking about, like, him. But yeah, I just wanted to read a quote quickly for those that haven't seen the video clip, but essentially at the. The listening party in Inglewood on Sunday, he says this about the album. Essentially said he wanted to talk. It started as him wanting to talk about his childhood, growing up in Hawthorne and giving us some details that we. We just don't know about his life growing up specifically. And he said that turned into him just taking a bunch of things that his mom had told him as he was growing up and kind of letting those influence or inspire some of the subject matter of the. Of the songs. And then he says this quote, talking about his. What his mom told him. He said, I'm 33. And all this stuff is like, oh, that's what she was talking about. I'm not the guy who I was at 20. People are getting older, folks having kids, starting families, and all I have is a Ferrari. I got a gray hair on my chest. Life is lifing. And I don't know. I just wanted to kind of write about stuff that I think about when I'm Dolo. I'm happy you all got to experience it in my hometown. So, yeah, it's very. It's very much someone approaching middle age, you know. His last album was all about luxury, traveling, spending, eating. And it felt like time is being Is less of a luxury to him now, and him realizing that time is our only luxury, maybe in some sense.

[Camden Ostrander]

Okay.

[Cole Kushna]

And just really. Yeah. I mean, it is kind of a classic existential. He's not midlife, but in the classical sense. But it feels like he. You know, when you grow older, you just don't have, like, the decisions or the. The lack of decisions start to weigh a little bit more heavy. So when you're thinking about should I have kids or not? It's like, when you're 25, that's a different question than when you're 33, you know, and there. There's just a little more weight to that consideration. And it just feels like he was taking a pause and just really kind of reflecting on where he is and where he wants to be and where he's going. We'll talk a little bit more about that as it pertains to the idea of light, I think, is like, the main motif of the album. Obviously, Starts and ends with this idea of light, how to preserve your light. And to me, that kind of meant, at least at this point, it feels like his mom says, don't dim your light for anyone. And there's a purity of your own light when you're a child. And I feel like as you get older, there's. And this is something I. I often think about is how to preserve. I don't think about it as light, but on the album, it's. It's. It's kind of. It manifests as light, as the essential kind of symbol. And how do you preserve your light as you age, as you maybe start making choices? Because you're a certain age and you should have. You feel like you should have kids or you're getting pressure to have kids, you should be at this point in your career and you're not. And. And you start to sacrifice maybe some of yourself because of certain pressures, whether it's familiar or societal. And it's like, how do you stay true to yourself as you age? Was kind of something I've been kind of thinking about actively as I'm listening and considering this album, which is a pretty powerful theme. Right. I mean, it's something. And it goes into this idea of a mask and the roles that we're playing to appease, you know, whoever it may be. And. Yeah. How do you. How do you maintain who you are as you age is. It's pretty powerful question. I feel like the. The album is asking.

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah. Yes. I mean, like, when I'm thinking about what the album's talk, like, as far as these themes, I'm looking at it like, this is like, a couple years ahead of me. So, like, one of my feelings with this album is like, oh, this. I gotta do that.

[Cole Kushna]

It's coming.

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah, I gotta do that soon. In a minute. So that makes a lot of sense. I wonder too, if that deals with the theme of paranoia coming up on the album. Him, like, worried about protecting himself and, like, what he has versus what he could do. Still, like, him talking about, like, protecting himself is a big deal on this album, or how he could. Or if he should be doing it to the extent that he has for so long. All of those things, I think they. They work together. Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. And I think that's in terms of what he said about. You're kind of reflecting on his childhood and sharing a little bit more about that. I'm not sure how much that thread really came through in the end. And it sounded like he. At least what he said about it he kind of pivoted. It started as that and then it kind of ended up being this other thing. But the paranoia of the album, I think he was trying to link it back to growing up in Hawthorne. There's a lot I forgot on what song. There's a line where he says like something about growing up and people ask, like, where are you from? Essentially, like, you know, I'm talking about. Yeah. And that paranoia kind of trans. Like just never leaving him.

[Camden Ostrander]

A bit of him from. Because of where he is from. Yeah. That's like just something that's always been in him. A trauma he's always had to deal with sort of thing.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. And that only kind of. Yeah. Exacerbating once he had more things to protect.

[Camden Ostrander]

Right.

[Cole Kushna]

So, yeah, it's. It's not the album I was expecting. It just. It was such a left turn for me in terms of the role. I mean. And maybe I just was looking. I was looking too much into the rollout. I know that now. Not that I regret it. It was very fun to do that. But yeah, the theatrics of the rollout just. Yeah. As a complete U turn in terms of such a vulnerable album and a vulnerable album throughout one of the. On my first listens, one of the things I was thinking about was there's a version of this album where a lot of the more quote unquote accessible songs are front loaded. And a song like hey Jane, hey Jane is buried towards the back, you know, and it gets. The vulnerable stuff's more towards the end. But I mean, he gets pretty vulnerable almost, you know, within the first four songs we have, you get hey Jane and that. That kind of turns the album in this different direction and I just. And. And so. And then it kind of oscillates between almost one for one vulnerable song with a more bravado, upbeat, traditional rap song. There's a lot of oscillation going on throughout the album, which I thought was cool and interesting in terms of just. Yeah, I think that he could have made a more commercially appealing album had he front loaded it with songs like Sticky and Thought I Was Dead and Thought I Was Dead. All those being more up front, starting with a lot of energy and it letting. Letting it taper towards the end with the vulnerable stuff. But it was very clear he was trying to be very honest. And that was kind of. It seems like that was the main through line.

[Camden Ostrander]

Hey Jane. Being like song five was the moment.

[Cole Kushna]

Crazy.

[Camden Ostrander]

That's the moment where it's like, oh, this was not. This is not A Tyler. This was not a regular Tyler structure. This was not what I was expecting. Like, that was the moment I was like, what's. What's hap. This is very different. Like, that's.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, yeah. And then you get. And it's like, oh, wow. Like, is that the. You know, is that the kind of emotional gem of the album? And it's like, no, there's more. Because Judge. Like Judge Judy, if you understand what's going on in that song, I think. Which is. I think one of his. His. I don't know if it's a fling or whatever you want to call it. Somebody he was in a relationship with or seemingly dies of cancer and is writing to him from beyond the grave. Just very heavy. When I realize. I think that's what's going on. Did you catch that at all?

[Camden Ostrander]

I thought it was like mental health, but I did think that she passed. Right. And like, him talking about a relationship that seems real. He's talked about this last night, which is. This is crazy that it's. We have had no time. He talked about this last night. That, like, this is album. Everything he is saying is true.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[Camden Ostrander]

That's wild. Like, I can see a Tyler in the past making up something like this.

[Cole Kushna]

Right.

[Camden Ostrander]

But doesn't feel made up at all. Like. And that just hits totally differently. Like, you.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. Knowing it's true. And then also him being able to craft. I mean, if we're talking about Judge Judy to craft a song or an emotional musical palette that really delivers that message in a very impactful, you know, meaningful way. The marriage of. And. And something I should just say, because I might forget to say it later. His writing on this album is fucking exceptional. Right. Lyrically, there are some lines. There is the. The storytelling. He's just getting so fluid and organic with his. Not only his flow, but, like, just his lyricism. There's that. The opening line of Tomorrow where he says, my mother's hands don't look the same.

[Camden Ostrander]

Okay. My mother's hands don't look the same these jet black strands are turning gray.

[Cole Kushna]

Which is, like, poetic. That is a perfect line.

[Camden Ostrander]

And then delivering it and, like, a different voice than we've really heard from him before. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

They're just. On the first couple listens, I was just, you know, hey, Jane is a hard song to execute. You could say you want to write a song about getting pregnant with someone and debating in the back and forth.

[Camden Ostrander]

And that being a conversation.

[Cole Kushna]

That's a great concept to execute. That concept is a totally different thing. And he fucking nails it musically, lyrically. Delivery, like the detail of emotion. It's like you're saying, like, everything's true. I believe him. When we hear a song like Dear Jane, some of those details you just can't write. Had you not felt those feelings and him able to articulate those feelings as powerfully as he is on this record. I'm just. Just the lyricism alone I was very impressed with multiple times. There's just certain lines I want to. Actually want to pull up. The opening line on the last verse of St. Chroma, he says, I am just a box with the light of thunder in me.

[Camden Ostrander]

Oh, yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay. I is just a box with a light of thunder in like. Are you kidding?

[Camden Ostrander]

This? The synesthesia. The synesthesia in the line of it being of light and thunder instead of like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

But saying he's just a box also. And that's. That's. That's a lot. That's. That's a crazy line in terms like, that is a great line. And I'm just not used to hearing those kind of lines come from Tyler in this way. And maybe just as consistently. He's always been a great lyricist, but yeah, there's just moments where I was just like, wow. The maturity and the experience all just kind of lining up on this album. Really impressive. Okay, so let's get into. Or did you have anything else on themes that you wanted to hit at this point?

[Camden Ostrander]

We're gonna hit them in the songs. I know we're gonna. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

So let's. Yeah, I did want to. To. I wanted to think of ways where we could talk specifically about certain songs and. And moments and not kind of letting this be a general discussion because on Dissect, we try to get into the nitty gritty as much as we can. Caveat being we're only two days into this record. But I did ask you. And I did the same exercise, which was to pick one song that kind of was interesting. The most interesting to you on know, day two and kind of just unpack a little bit of it. So you picked Thought I was Dead.

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Which I will have to say up front, cuz I'm very curious. This was probably my least favorite song on the album.

[Camden Ostrander]

Oh, I did.

[Cole Kushna]

So when you. When do you pick this? I was like, okay, great. Like, sell me on it.

[Camden Ostrander]

Right?

[Cole Kushna]

So why Thought I was dead?

[Camden Ostrander]

I mean, first off, it rattled my car. Like it just. It was bumped. Like, ooh. It hit really hard. Like it had been like a half single and So I was kind of, like, expecting it, ready for it on that first listen. It's an extended. We got the full version now and it just. It was bumping. I think it's really cool that it is Tyler's statement on the Big three debate. Everybody talking about who the big three are. Nobody was saying Tyler. So I think him saying they thought I was dead was him talking about, why was I not aimed? Did you guys think I was dead? Like, I think to me, that's the framing of the title and the way he does it. He is also doing the bravado, dis rap in the Tyler way that makes sense in his mature state now. Like, when I. When I'm thinking about, like, the masculinity themes on the album. He's dialed back his hatred so much in the last few years. He's not saying things wild, not hating wildly, but he is still waking up at 5 in the morning hating and going to bed 10 in the evening hating. Like, he's still doing it. But because the hatred is now, like, dialed, it's realer. It hits a little harder, which is kind of crazy. I love that we get Schoolboy Q and Sandigold features. I think Sand Gold's used perfectly. I think Schoolboy Q is used perfectly. I think that they both fit the thought I was dead idea. Because Schoolboy, like, we know his return of Blue Loops this year has been awesome, but we know we all thought he would like. We thought that.

[Cole Kushna]

Right? Right.

[Camden Ostrander]

Santa Gold, I think herself, like, she's had some struggles with this as well. There's. We have the mystery cardi feature of this song also. Have you heard?

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, so, like, it's on the. It's on the vinyl.

[Camden Ostrander]

It's on the vinyl. So we have that. Which is really sick. And I just like the. And also, he's barring out T changed. Like, the vic got dirty.

[Cole Kushna]

So sick.

[Camden Ostrander]

Sick. And him talk. And him talking directly about, like, hitting 30, losing youth, but still being able to go like this. I want to set myself up so I can do the same. Like, I would like to be able to go into age and still be able to go as hard as he is and that, like, that's what he's preserving. When we talk about, like, what do you lose as you grow older and stuff. Like, him preserving this spirit and energy within himself, his inner hater.

[Cole Kushna]

Right.

[Camden Ostrander]

This is lethal.

[Cole Kushna]

You want to. You want to be able to hate till you're 60.

[Camden Ostrander]

I do. I. I want to be able to hate. Well, not because it's not hating. Stupid. It's not hating. Like, oh, these kids these days, they don't know what they're doing. No, it's very real and thought through and, like, it makes sense.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. It's okay.

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah. So it's dialed in. I love it.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, I gotta call out one. Because there's one of my favorite moments on the album is on the song. And it's the. So the song kind of builds up for the first, like, 30 seconds, and then when the beat kick, or just before the beat kicks in, there's that, like, trumpet blast where it's like. Like really crazy. You know what I'm talking about? But it's just like, such. Because you hear a little bit of trumpet before kind of playing in the background. But it's just one of those moments that only happens once. And it's like, it's. It functions as, you know, like a drum fill or something that then leads to the. The beat kicking in. But it's just. It's just the most random but awesome, but awesome little detail. Okay. That sells me on it, I guess. My only. My only thing. I just don't really, at this moment, don't really like the chorus because I love the verses. I love. I love the. The beat. I like the song. This is like. It's my least favorite and a great album. So it's not like I'm. I'm definitely not, like, hating on it.

[Camden Ostrander]

Right.

[Cole Kushna]

But brilliant. My song, it was almost like him. But I think we're going to talk about that song enough. Probably.

[Camden Ostrander]

Probably. Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

So one of the one. The standout tracks on, I guess, probably Second listen, even first listen was take your mask off. Intriguing thematically. Right. Because he is wearing a mask on the COVID It's part of the character. So I was definitely just very curious of what the mask would mean. So this one kind of just kind of just explains the concept pretty clearly. And I should caveat this with him saying at last night's Atlanta show, he said, I think I wore mask on the album because that's the only way that I could be this honest and vulnerable.

[Camden Ostrander]

He called the mask a mask of his face. Right?

[Cole Kushna]

Oh, did he specifically say of his face?

[Camden Ostrander]

I think, yeah. Mask of my face.

[Cole Kushna]

Really?

[Camden Ostrander]

Like, that's the phrase?

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. Let me. I'm gonna pull it up because we've.

[Camden Ostrander]

Been talking about what that mask was. I know we've had this conversation, but, like, I think he was saying that I had to put on a mask of my face.

[Cole Kushna]

I know this new album is a little Different. But this is the first album where.

[Camden Ostrander]

Like, everything I said is true.

[Cole Kushna]

And I say that in the sense of. It's no exaggeration.

[Camden Ostrander]

It's no like.

[Cole Kushna]

Like, it's so honest that I think.

[Camden Ostrander]

I had to wear a mask of my own face to get some of that shit out.

[Cole Kushna]

Let's put a pin in that thought. But let me get my. To my little mini dissection of take your mask off. Structured, just really cool. So we get up front, we get three stories about three different types of masks. We have the kind of suburban kid that ends up putting on a mask of bravado and machismo, kind of this fake tough Persona. We get verse two, which is calling out a preacher who is secretly gay. Molest children. Kind of your classic. It's like very dark, but you're. But I mean, that's like the cliche, right? That's the cliche mask. When you think about it. Obviously, it's very fucked up and dark. Then we get the. The. The rich homemaker who settles down, has a rich husband, but is unhappy, lost her identity through motherhood and. And the marriage. All under this umbrella of the chorus, which is. I hope you find yourself. I hope you take your mask off. And one of the interesting things about the song is like, the. The sonics of it, because you could take what he's saying in the verses and he does speak very sternly, I guess. Or you could take it that way about these different characters. Almost like you could potentially feel like he's judging them or looking down on them. But the chorus and the. Just the overall warmth of the beat kind of lends this empathetic lens to these stories where it's like, okay, I'm going hard and I'm pointing out your mask. But at the end of the day, this chorus. I hope you find yourself. I do actually wish that you can end up being your true self. You lost your true self somewhere along the way during or, you know, due to different pressures or stresses. And I. I genuinely wish that you will find your way back home. Find. Take the mask off and find yourself again. So there's like a. A bit of. It's just like a weird dichotomy that I thought was really interesting and effective. But then we get to 2 minutes and 10 seconds into the song.

[Camden Ostrander]

Keep that 100 with you.

[Cole Kushna]

We get this modulation into a bridge. Beautiful, classic Tyler. Wonderful, gorgeous bridge section. And then the mom is introduced into the song for the first time. I think the mom's on every song in some way, even if it's just a very short but. So we get the mom. And she says, keep that 100 with you, with yourself. You don't have to put on no costume. You don't ever have to lie to kick it. And so this sets up the fourth verse, which is Tyler going harder on himself than he did on all three of those first three verses. And it's him looking in the mirror and just. Just criticizing himself, which kind of. This is obviously like the mask off moment or one of the mask off moments of the album, which contrasts some of the more bravado of the album. The last third of the verse is just hits really hard where he says, tell your spirit why you ain't feeling. You're feeling. It's a rap in the booth. How dare you try to ruin her marriage. Claim you never wore a mask. And how you don't get embarrassed. Which to me, like, that is very interesting. Knowing Tyler's personality, or at least like what he shows publicly, which is this kind of. Yeah, you wouldn't think he's the type to get embarrassed. He's like, kind of silly and goofy. And then he says, boy, you selfish as fuck. That's why you really scared. Scared of being a parent. And so I don't know, there's a bunch of these lines where I'm just like, ouch, Ouch. And just being totally, brutally honest with himself. I just thought it's a. It's just a very. The structure of the song combined with the sonics of the song. It's not a. Oh, and by the way, it's not a Drake disc. Like, I got multiple questions about this. People were really thinking this was a Drake. Verse 4 was a Drake disc. The whole thing, I was like, get.

[Camden Ostrander]

That man out your mind. He's not. It doesn't matter. All right.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. So 100% not a Drake disc because. And I. I think that's worth noting because I don't. We shouldn't diminish the impact of that verse, which I feel like is a standout moment right on the album and conceptually feels really important to the album. Yeah. So that. That was my. My single song selection. I feel like I could have picked a ton of songs, but again, we're only two days the album.

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

So next segment, we're going to move on to our Tyler tradition, which is sharing our favorite timestamps. So if you follow Tyler on social media, you know that every album release, he likes to hear people get specific about particular by the second moments of a song. Explain why you like that particular moment? He just this morning posted his thread on. On Twitter about his favorite moments and gave time codes and explanations why. So, Cam, we each picked out three of our favorite moments on the album. So, Cam, why don't you kick it off with your first time code?

[Camden Ostrander]

I want to start. Oh, okay. I'm gonna go with I killed you at 2:16. This. Okay, this is when I almost crashed my car.

[Cole Kushna]

All right.

[Camden Ostrander]

When I listen to this the first time. Look, Gambino comes on the song earlier. He starts at 1:30. He's in the background. He's soft. I couldn't believe it. I didn't know what. I was having an out of body experience. I said, no, is it. Is that really finally, after my whole life of wanting this, what's happened? And it just. He kept building and building and building. And Tyler's putting Gambino in there and he's singing in the back. Oh, and it's so pretty. But you're like, wait, let. Just let him do something a little. Just let him do a little more. Just let him do a little more. And then we get here and the way Gambino sings. Beautiful. And just. I could have. I could have lost it all. I could have crashed.

[Cole Kushna]

Oh, my God. We should. So let's preface this conversation with your. Are you the world's biggest Gambino scholar? I always give you that look, I'm give you that title.

[Camden Ostrander]

That's what, that's what you say. Nobody's taking it. Nobody's taking that from me. Nobody else is saying that about themselves or having that said.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. And okay then also, can you give a little context about their relationship over the years?

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah. So, okay, so Tyler, the creator, Childish Gambino, two of my favorite artists ever. They have been like. They've just been like parallel tracks, I think, in pop culture for so many years. And they were kind of aware of it. Like, they know that each other. They were both occupying similar spaces. A lot of people who are fans of one are fans of the other, but they weren't really like, linking up. There is a super early Donald Glover blog where he's like, I met Tyler. He's crazy. Like, and he's like talking about meeting him for the first time and the odd future guys and being like, man, they're really cool. But I'm not quite like that. Right. So they had like a. Just parallel tracks.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay.

[Camden Ostrander]

There's a little bit of weirdness between them because they were running in the same circles doing all that like you. There's Gotta be. Like, they know they're there, right?

[Cole Kushna]

Right. Yeah.

[Camden Ostrander]

It's a few years before they start talking about how good each other is. Like, Tyler didn't say anything until. Because the Internet, when he loved Earn, like, he freaked out because he loved the song Earn and, like, that was the first time he had said anything. But it's been years of them just kind of operating in the same space. Parallel tracks, but not really getting together. Unless you count an episode of the regular show where they. Where like cartoons. They have, like, cartoons and they're doing, like a battle rap. Right? So it's just like we. It's just a weird space. And I'm like, why are they not holding hands?

[Cole Kushna]

Right?

[Camden Ostrander]

And now they're holding hands, and it's pretty great. This whole year, like, they did Tyler performed Coachella. He brought Gambino out. Gambino on Bando. Stone says, you know, I'm allergic to the drama. You saw me and Tyler, like, they've been getting together. Tyler really talked a lot about Atlanta when Atlanta was finishing up its run. So they've been talking about each other. They've been working together. And we just got Tyler, the creator and Tyler Scambino on a song one.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. It's wild that it took this long. Was there ever friction between them or. Not really.

[Camden Ostrander]

I guess the friction was probably just, like, unspoken and just like the. I guess they. I don't know when you know somebody's doing kind of the same thing as you. Like, they're both doing very similar polymath, like, you know, So I think it was just that.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay.

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah. I couldn't believe it. This happened. And I like.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, okay, so I'll pivot to my first time code. I'm gonna save, like, him for a second because I'm not quite ready for that. So let's go with. I hope you find you'd way home the end of the album. For the record, I will say I've been trying to figure out the album loop. Have you. Have you done the album loop yet?

[Camden Ostrander]

What do you mean? Like, playing it.

[Cole Kushna]

Have you? Repeatedly the last song, going back into the first song and how that it's very seamless. And I was like, oh, is there something there in terms of, like, I guess like some coded symbolism or something going on with the chords? Because it feels the experience of it is very smooth and seamless. Like, you don't feel like the album started over. Right, Right. One of the thoughts I was like, oh, does it. Does it kind of begin with the end? Because what Is what are. What his mom says in the very beginning moments of the album is kind of the album. Right. And it would feel like an appropriate ending. So that's one thought I had. Where it's like, oh, that's kind of interesting. Where it's like what she says at the beginning and if you're playing in a loop, ties directly into what she says at the very end of the album. So it is held together thematically as a loop. If there's anything beyond it, just feeling intentional and smooth. I'm working on it. I'll definitely, like, make a video on. On it. If there's something revelatory there.

[Camden Ostrander]

People are waiting. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

I think I have something musical, but I'll save it for when I'm sure.

[Camden Ostrander]

Okay, sweet.

[Cole Kushna]

But I am working on that. But the section that I wanted to point out for this Exercise is at 3 minutes and 8 seconds. Do your thing.

[Camden Ostrander]

Just keep. Keep shining.

[Cole Kushna]

So good.

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah, it's so good.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay. I love this moment because the. The album could have ended with the mom saying, crying, and then saying, keep shining. But then we get this whole extra section after that moment. And what does he do to Keep shining? It's all musical at that point. Like, we don't hear anything else from Tyler at this, except if you count Chromacopia Chan at the very end. But essentially he shines by playing this beautiful, very skilled, very, very musically articulate solo over these beautiful chords. And it's just like, oh, this is like. It feels like Tyler in his element. It feels like if you're going to ask Tyler to shine, like, this is it. It's. It's the musical expression. It's him figuring all of this out. It's him getting better as a musician to be able to execute a moment like this. I just feel like this moment just for me is like one you can really point to as a crystallization of his maturation as a musician, as an artist, as a maturing person. And it's just so impactful the way it's done. And to end the album on that note, the back to back of the mom crying, being proud. Me as a parent, I feel that moment probably a little bit extra. And then we get the thematic, kind of conceptual land of Keep Shining, which kind of ties a nice bow on the whole album. And then to bring it home with this gorgeous solo. Just fucking for me, that kind of moment just really just got me going. It's something I look forward to every time as I'm approaching the end of the album. Just beautifully executed. Like, perfect execution of that. That moment.

[Camden Ostrander]

That's beautiful. No, that's so beautiful. Yeah, yeah. I love it. I do love it. Okay, the next moment, then I want to talk about is. Thought I was dead. We're going back to it.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay.

[Camden Ostrander]

I want to go to, like, the last time a bit of the chorus is played at 3:11.

[Cole Kushna]

I got what it take. I don't want to be found you I don't want to be down your.

[Camden Ostrander]

Ho I don't like coming around all.

[Cole Kushna]

Right, I was wrong. That song's awesome.

[Camden Ostrander]

Sick. The. The thing I love about this, I mean, besides how he ends talking directly to Trav, which is really cool, but that's not the moment. The moment here is when he adds the yoho to the I don't want to be down yo. Like. Yeah, yeah, that swing in that. Yeah, Come on. Like, I wish. I wish that was through the whole song, but it's just at the end. But when it. You can't. You can't hold that back.

[Cole Kushna]

Now. I was going to say that I love it that it's only at the end because that's what he's so great at, is just finding the. That little extra pocket. That little extra.

[Camden Ostrander]

Like, it's incredible.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, that. Just that little. Little more sauce on, you know, the core idea and just getting the most. Extracting the most out of a single idea. I didn't notice that until just now. So that's a great.

[Camden Ostrander]

Great, like, live. Live. I know it. I know it's going to be good. Like, that's it. That's what I know. Yeah, that's the one.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, let me get into then tomorrow. It's. It's kind of similar to my first. My first call out, but it's 2:13 into tomorrow. Let's hear it first, and we'll talk about. So again. Yeah, it is. It's a bit similar to. To my. My first call out, but it's just this contrast between these beautiful strings swelling up with the vocals of the chorus, and it just kind of breaking in this way that you just don't really expect where it goes. It just all of a sudden tapers off into these arpeggiated guitar chords and a synth solo on top. And then. But then you get the dog barks and the. The weird chance, which is just okay. Like, who else is gonna put a dog bark during this beautiful section?

[Camden Ostrander]

And it works.

[Cole Kushna]

And it's just. Yeah, it's just one of those. Particularly, like, the solo and the guitar are great, but it's it's the way that it gets into that and the contrast with that. Just the lushness of the strings and the swell of all these layered voices just creating, like, a. Just a very beautiful, beautiful moment. And it's like, when I'm talking about his maturation as a musician, those are the kind of moments that I'm talking about. It's like Tyler of even, like, four years ago can't do that. Doesn't make those kind of moments. And it's like those kind of moments are all over this thing. So that's. That's one I want to call out, but we're avoiding the inevitable.

[Camden Ostrander]

We know where we're going.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. Okay. So once you. Or actually, let's see who has. So we have a few here, and I think we both called out different sections, and mine is first in the song. So maybe let's try to go through it, like, go through it in the sections and. Yeah, in a kind of linear fashion. Okay, so I'll go first with mine. I technically have two.

[Camden Ostrander]

You have two. So we'll do me in the middle. All right.

[Cole Kushna]

Sweet. So like him is, I think, a standout track in this. It's if Tyler. If this is Tyler's most vulnerable, honest album. It feels like like him is the pinnacle of that expression from start to finish. I'm sure everyone listening knows. But essentially it's him confronting his feelings about his father, kind of. Who has been absent in his life. We've heard him talk about his father throughout his discography. Maybe most famously on Answer, right off of. Off of Wolf. Always been felt like there was some tension there, to say the least. Right. Um. And this. Well, we'll talk about the end of the song, but essentially this song is, like, confronting. Yeah, some of that. And, you know, I think we both grew up with fathers. That's true. Right?

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

So I think there's a. Based on the comments and specifically the one that Tyler shared from a listener on his Instagram, it feels like there's a layer to the song that probably you and I aren't going to be able to really feel. But if I'm getting the sense that, especially for those that might have not grown up as a. With a father, like, this is really hitting home in a way that maybe other songs haven't really articulated this clearly. So let's get into my first moment, which is at 1 minute and 33 seconds. Okay. So the song starts with. Yeah, it's great. The song starts. But this is. It's kind of the same. I'M finding a thread with all my selections here, though. What. Which is the song begins. And I remember thinking of, like this in the. On my first listen to this song, it's just Tyler at the piano. And the piano feels like it's mic'd, as if it's just like in his living room or something. And it's like a very intimate, close, personal song. And he's singing in a voice that we just don't hear him singing often. It's very transparent. And so I remember wondering, like, where is this song gonna go? And then the moment that we just played is when it breaks from that original text, that intimate texture into the fully fleshed out version. There's a drum fill, there's this kind of swell that happens, and you think it's going to just kind of explode into your classic big kind of bombastic version, ballad thing. Right. But then it doesn't like. Then it just kind of just sinks into this groove that I definitely did not expect at all. And it's this like, six, eight feel. There's no more piano, there's just the synthesizer. And then we get this really reverbed out guitar lead, which is just. The groove itself is just spectacular. And it adds this, like, contemplative kind of feeling to it. And then we also hear a theremin, which is interesting because the song is like. The chorus is I'm chasing a ghost. And a theremin is a. Is an instrument that we traditionally think about. It's often used to kind of portray the supernatural, be it UFOs or ghosts. It's the.

[Camden Ostrander]

Is it the handy hand area?

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, you control it with your hand and it's a. Yeah. Frequency. Like it has a very distinct frequency. Oh, that's. Or timbre.

[Camden Ostrander]

That's so cool.

[Cole Kushna]

So that feels intentional, right?

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah. Wait a minute.

[Cole Kushna]

Chasing a ghost. So cool detail there, right?

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

But even beyond that kind of Easter egg, I feel like just the groove is so cool. But do you want to go to now your section?

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah, we're going to skip a little bit ahead. We're going to get to about like three minutes. Three minute. Three minute, two seconds and run through 3:12.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay. Huh.

[Camden Ostrander]

Okay. So the huh from Baby Keem. I don't know if it's officially credited yet or not. I don't care. That's Baby Keem or I'm not who I Am. Like, that's Baby Keem. The huh is I think, in the background a little bit before, like 15 seconds earlier. I don't care. It doesn't Matter. Huh? Like that. Like that breath. That moment is incredible. Cause then I'm like, is Baby Keem about to show up? No, it's about to get into another beautiful instruction taking the song.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[Camden Ostrander]

Like another place. Only Tyler would do that. Like, only Tyler would do that.

[Cole Kushna]

I know that's. Yeah. And then. And then you get the. The dog barks over that. What we just heard as well. Yeah. I don't know what to think about the game. The Baby Keem. Huh. It's.

[Camden Ostrander]

I wonder if it's Baby Keem dealing with similar experiences, I think. But this is off me. Just trying to remember. Melodic blue.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[Camden Ostrander]

But.

[Cole Kushna]

Oh, my God, that was kind of like if there is any. If it's just not an aesthetic thing, because it works. It works for me. It's kind of funny, but it does work. Like, before I knew it was Baby Keem, and I was just not really thinking about that. It works. But, yeah, I had the same thought where it's like, yeah, Baby Keem also, I'm pretty sure grew up without a father.

[Camden Ostrander]

I was waiting for him to come on and do a verse. I'm not going to lie. My first time writing the song, I was like, that's Baby. But that was Baby Keem.

[Cole Kushna]

When's he. Okay. Do you think that's a. Is that a sample, or did Baby Keem come in the studio to do.

[Camden Ostrander]

I hope he came in the studio.

[Cole Kushna]

Tyler's like, I got to get. I need you on this, but.

[Camden Ostrander]

Yo, Keem, I need you to come in right now. What are you. Stop what you're doing. This is a very important feature right now.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay? So my next Moment is at 4 minutes to. 4 minutes and 20 seconds.

[Camden Ostrander]

It was my fault. Not yours, not his. It was my fault. I'm sorry. You know, it was my. Not him. Cuz he always wanted to be there for you. And I'm sorry. I was young, but he's always wanted.

[Cole Kushna]

To be a father to you.

[Camden Ostrander]

So I. I up.

[Cole Kushna]

Jesus Christ. Okay. God. That. Okay, let me just talk about it musically, because obviously it's. It's maybe the emotional climax of the entire album, that moment. But though, again, it's like you. I want to really emphasize how he is nailing these moments musically to make them as impactful. Because it's one thing to have the concept, right? It's one thing to have this tape of your mom taking her mask off, right? If. If. If this is her mask off moment, if there ever is one, right? And so it's like, okay, you have the tape you have this song. How do I incorporate this into the song in a way that is going to be as effective as possible? And he does it because it's like you have this huge. You think the song's ending it. Song kind of ends right, like a huge climax. There's a really great bass solo. I don't know who's playing bass. Maybe Thundercat on this song. And it's just like. It's your classic bombastic kind of ending to a ballad like this. And then it just. Just cuts out. And then right away you get those. Dong. Kind of ominous, like, dong tom or whatever it is. And then we get the tape, and then the synth comes back in, and it's just like, ugh. Just musically, it's so effective to me. And then we get the sentiment of what's said, which is her admitting, essentially, that she was the one that distanced the father, that the father did want to be there for him, and then asking Tyler for forgiveness, which is. I mean, there's nothing really I could.

[Camden Ostrander]

Say, but I couldn't believe it. I like.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, it's extremely heavy, extremely vulnerable to put it on there. I mean, vulnerable for his mom to allow it on there. Him again, her saying that she was young, her now aging. I think of the. The opening line of tomorrow. My. My mom's hands don't look the same. Living with regrets and all these. Confronting all these things. Taking the mask off. So powerful. We like.

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah. We're all getting older every second. The call of getting older as a call, to be honest, and then actually doing it.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[Camden Ostrander]

How many of us actually do what we should? How many of us actually. Yeah. My God.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[Camden Ostrander]

It's beautiful. Yeah. Jesus.

[Cole Kushna]

I just think, again, this is just. It's so special being able to witness and. Because, I mean, I also think of, like, Tyler's fan base being probably the bulk of it, more or less his age, you know, and growing with him and experiencing these same things and having someone like Tyler, who was like a prankster and a troll, came in as a troll, you know what I mean? And seem like someone like him especially mature.

[Camden Ostrander]

Right. Yes.

[Cole Kushna]

Right. And in the public eye and to do it this grace gracefully and to be a model in a lot of ways, I think it's just his. His trajectory is just so powerful to me.

[Camden Ostrander]

For him to hit this honesty at this moment.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

It's crazy. It's like. It's admirable. It's really cool. Okay, we did it.

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Let's take a. Let's take a Quick break from that. And when we come back, we're going to. We'll lighten it up. We're going to. We're going to share our. Our favorite three song sequence of the album. We're going to share our favorite feature and then we're going to get into some, some light dissections. All right, we are back. It is time now for our favorite three song sequence. Tyler is excellent at sequencing. We've. There's definitely multiple times on the project where the end of one song seamlessly goes into the next. I think of. What is it? Ratata? Is that how you say it?

[Camden Ostrander]

The Pokemon.

[Cole Kushna]

That's the obvious one where he says, you guys are weird and I'm paranoid. And then it goes in the song paranoid. But there's more than. That's the most obvious one. But there's tons of those little sequencing was very intentional on the album. So I'm curious, what was your favorite stretch of the album?

[Camden Ostrander]

So I can go with like, I. I could go with a stretch towards the end or I could go with the one that's for me right now that I still can't believe exists. I'm going back to the Gambino. Whatever. I'm going to. I'm calling it the Childish Gambino. Sweet.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay.

[Camden Ostrander]

I killed you into Judge Judy and then I get to play sticky. I get sticky. Haha. That's. Yeah, that sequence.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[Camden Ostrander]

Oh, it's so sick.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, so okay, put to rest that Judge Judy features Gambino and not Frank Ocean.

[Camden Ostrander]

Okay, so we need to talk about this. So it is Gambino. I think Tyler just tweeted that it was like that he loves the way Donald was having his notes. Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Confirmed it. Yeah.

[Camden Ostrander]

Going with the instrumental. Here's the thing that I haven't seen people talk about yet that I like was the first thing that I thought. Judge Judy, obviously Tyler has his whole concept with it. Judge Judy is a very important symbol for Childish Gambino because it's how he ends the show Atlanta. Darius in the show Atlanta is experiencing like simulation theory. So was the entire show a simulation. The whole like the thesis of the end, the last episode is like if Judge Judy on TV has a large derriere or not, tells you whether or not the world is real or it's the fake simulation. And so like the end of the show is Darius smiling while watching Judge Judy. And you don't know as the audience whether or not it was fat. And so Tyler like loved the end of Atlanta. He talked about the end of Atlanta. When it came out, he was promoted. Like, he thought it was so great. He said he had a lot of nice things to say. So for him to throw Gambino on to the song called Judge Judy, I'm not going to pretend like I know everything that it means, but there is that call, like, that is interesting. I wonder if he just put Gambino on it. Because it's funny, the Judge Judy thing, like, because I don't know, because the feature is so small. But I love it. I can't not point it out. Yeah, yeah, I love it. I also need to point out that both Gambino and Tyler sampled I Wanna Rock by Luke that Don't Stop that sample.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, yeah. Because he did that on Bando, right?

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah. And their 20, 24 albums, they're both sampling the same song, right? How'd that happen, guys? I think it's really cool. And Sticky is very fun.

[Cole Kushna]

I really like.

[Camden Ostrander]

Like Glorilla I think is incredible. Like Glowrilla, Sexy Red, Lil Wayne, Tyler all working on it. Like that one goes. Yeah, that's a hit. That's really cool.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, I really like that. So. And I love that how short each verse is. And I love that Tyler just doesn't have one. He kind of. Because one of my gripes with Posse Cuts. Not a gripe, but like whoever song it is, quote unquote, it never feels like their song Sticky still feels like Tyler song even though there's three features on it. Because he. And he. There's so many parts. He has that whole outro is him. But yeah, I think he has. He has two or three verses on it or it's hard to call them verses because they're so short. But anyways, it's just. It was strategically very cool the way that he did that. Having three guests on it but also making it feel still like a Tyler song. Yeah. And so not feeling like this odd thing out of. Outside of the project. Okay, so I'm gonna go. Noid, darling eye. Hey, Jane. As my current three song sequence, I could easily go like him Balloon. I hope you find your way home. But we talked a lot about like that. So. Noid. I don't want to discredit Noid. Noid's awesome. I played it too much. I tried so hard not to play it too much before the album came out, but it's. It's kind of sticking out of the album for me because I've heard it more than the other songs.

[Camden Ostrander]

Right.

[Cole Kushna]

So I'm like, you know what I mean? But that song is phenomenal. One of my favorite moments on the album is still the Ngozi family sample. We've just never heard anything like that in a Tyler song. And it's impactful every single time it comes on. And then it got that going into Darling Eye, that song is. We haven't talked about that song. One of my favorite songs on the album. Tizo's great on that song. The vibe is just so special. And then going into hey Jane, which is a masterpiece of storytelling. And just so you get, you kind of get the whole project in that little three song run. You gotta get all the elements.

[Camden Ostrander]

True.

[Cole Kushna]

You know what I mean? If you're, you're trying to pick out that, you know, three, three song, the run, that could explain the album. That was the one where I'm like, oh, that kind of gives you a little bit of everything that's on this album. But maybe the most impactful to me is the last stretch. Like him. Balloon, I hope you find your way home is pretty incredible. And it, I, I gotta call out the way that, the way Balloon feels after the emotional intensity of Lichen feels so good, right? When you hear those little, like those bright little chords come in and like, things get upbeat. And he's talking about using this balloon to kind of as a metaphor for keep going higher and, you know, moving on or so. You know what I mean? Like keeping it light, like just true. It's very, the sequencing was very effective right there for me in terms of a mood switch into this more hopeful ending after a pretty intense emotional moment.

[Camden Ostrander]

I think that leads us straight into the features. Right?

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. Let me just go into my favorite feature then. Pretty obvious pick for me. I'm going dochi on Balloon. Aight.

[Camden Ostrander]

What a swamp fist Fly this bitch up in the room I need a cockpit I need some peter for this pussy Want the crop cre I'm finna air these deal at the closet.

[Cole Kushna]

So I was so excited that when I first heard her come on, I was like, yes. Because she had just gotten the co sign from Kendrick on Instagram and then getting the co sign from Tyler here. I, I, I mean, Tyler attended her album release party. So that was cool to see a couple months ago. But then to get this kind of formal stamp that she's on the album with a, you know, it's not just like some vocals that you're like, who is that? It's like, no, she has a legit verse. Maybe the longest guest verse of the album.

[Camden Ostrander]

Oh, maybe true May.

[Cole Kushna]

I don't know Maybe schoolboy.

[Camden Ostrander]

His is kind of short, too. I don't know.

[Cole Kushna]

Because she has the full verse and then she gets a little extra, like, a little chorus. Yeah. But I just love her energy. She's got great wordplay. Doing the cockpit. Need. One of my favorite lines was, I need PETA for this pussy, because PETA could be the animal rights group, which would make pussy the pussycat play, but then PETA the bread. So we get that play as well, which is great. But then. Okay. It sounds so silly coming from.

[Camden Ostrander]

You're going to say it out loud.

[Cole Kushna]

I'm gonna say it out loud. I air this bitch out like a queef. It's fucking incredible. When I first heard that. Yes, it was a literal spit take. I was like, what the. It's so good. And she's calling back to what Tyler said, which is, I air this out like a balloon, which is what he says before. And the way she flips it is, like, so great. And I also love when she says, I'll spray your. Spray a whole block with the floor, which is, like, super clever. Which is, like, replacing the gun with, like, his fragrance is just cool and very cool that she said that this was her most desired collaboration, so she nailed it. And if you haven't listened to Dochi's interview on Dissect, go listen to it. It's the first artist interview that we did. I think it was a great conversation. So if you missed that. Go. I'm going to use this opportunity to plug it.

[Camden Ostrander]

Sweet.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay. Are you just gonna go back to Gambino for your favorite?

[Camden Ostrander]

First off, I'm gonna point out. It's so funny. Tyler was so scared of having children, and then he has Dochi on his song. Okay. As if Dochi is not a Tyler child. Then. Then I'm gonna wonder, maybe Baby Keem. Was it baby? No. Yeah. I'm gonna say it's childish Gambino. I'm gonna say that, like, the most.

[Cole Kushna]

Your third, Tyler.

[Camden Ostrander]

I'm not. I'm. I'm not even going to have to say anything. Do I have to say anything?

[Cole Kushna]

Cam, all he says, like, one word on this album.

[Camden Ostrander]

This is a victory lap. You understand what this means, Cole?

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, I got it. All right. I'm trying to think of anyone. Other. Other features that we should shout out, though. T. I love Teo. Yeah, if. Like that. If we're talking about Tyler's children, I mean, that's 100% one of them.

[Camden Ostrander]

True.

[Cole Kushna]

Daniel Caesar obviously is all over this thing and seems like he was pretty important. To the. Seems like he was just in the studio a lot with Tyler, so that seems important to at least acknowledge. Yeah, Schoolboy was great. I mean, all the features. Oh, we should talk about, like, okay, why did. Why did Tyler hide the features? So a couple days before the album releases, he puts it. What, does he tweet it or says something? No features. Or he put it in his bio. No features. And so. And then when we get the track list, you open the album up on Spotify the day of. There's no features listed in the credits. That changes on Tuesday. I have a theory about why he did this.

[Camden Ostrander]

Oh, what do you think?

[Cole Kushna]

Which is. I think in this kind of social media culture of, like, album hype and speculation.

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

The features always seem to override the actual album itself. People like, oh, like, it's gonna be featuring Travis Scott. Or it's like, it's gonna blah, blah, blah, feature. And then it's like, but you're getting an entire album from this artist. Like, be excited about the album.

[Camden Ostrander]

That's true.

[Cole Kushna]

I get you're excited, like, someone's gonna have a feature, but I always thought that was strange. And just knowing Tyler, I feel like it's like, okay, you guys are all gonna get excited about all these features. I want you to experience this album without thinking about that. I want you to just experience as a body of work where these artists are. Are on the project. But don't let that distract you from the. Just the totality of the experience of it, at least on day one. And then he. It makes. It makes perfect sense then, that he reveals formally the features the day after.

[Camden Ostrander]

That's true.

[Cole Kushna]

Buying that theory?

[Camden Ostrander]

No, for sure. Because the experience of almost crashing my car when hearing Childish Gambino, like, yeah, if you knew. If I knew, I'd be like, is it going to be a verse? Is it. Is he gonna sing? I'd be worried.

[Cole Kushna]

You might have been dis. You would have been disappointed.

[Camden Ostrander]

I would have been disappointed. You're right. Damn, that's so good. Yeah, that's true.

[Cole Kushna]

That's true. Okay.

[Camden Ostrander]

Sick.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, Time for some light dissections. Caveat.

[Camden Ostrander]

We don't know anything.

[Cole Kushna]

It's 48 hours. There's a lot to unpack. I'm excited about the notion of unpacking it over the next couple months, but we are going to return to some of the main elements of the rollout, some of the motifs that we've noticed on the album, and just kind of see if we can better wrap our head around some of the concept Stuff. So let me start. Let's just start again with the light. So he lays it out very clearly at the. This. The last verse of Saint Chroma. He says, I am just a box with the light of thunder in me. Gratitude sits under the hubris that's on my sleeve, which that line tells so much about that. This oscillation between bravado and vulnerability on the album, where it's like the outward me, there's hubris, there's ego, but underneath that is this gratitude. And I need to show that more. Then he says, mama said I'm special. I was blowing shit up back at home in Chromacopia. So interesting that he names Chromacopia is a place back home. And he. Right after he says, mama said I'm special, I think referring to his childhood. So. So pin in that. I don't like the way that this is looking. Mirror got me thinking about my booking. I just need this time to figure myself out. Do I keep the light on or do I gracefully bow out? And that's the end of St. Chroma, the first song. So he's setting up the album as me figuring out myself looking in the mirror, thinking about my bookend, meaning either the end of my career or the end of my life. I don't think. Do I keep the light on or do I gracefully bow out as, like, a suicide. I don't. I don't read that as suicidal ideation. I took that more as, like. Yeah, theatrical, maybe more about, like, living under the spotlight, that that's how I took it. Or even gracefully bowing out. Meaning, like, do I dim the light? Do I recede? Do I start compromising as I'm getting older? So that, to me, kind of lays out the album. Was that your reading as well?

[Camden Ostrander]

I think so, yeah. I think it serves as a thesis, right? I mean, we got second verse on the first song. I mean, my English teacher brain is telling me that's the thesis, right? Like, sorry, but it kind of does seem like that's, like, the outline and blueprint.

[Cole Kushna]

So if we're tying it to this idea of Chroma. Chromacopia. I mean, it makes sense that he would say back at home in Chromacopia. And so one of the things that maybe I should just lay it out here is that the idea that St. Chroma may actually be his mom and not the military character.

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah, the military character has the horns and they just put out a shirt that has, like, it even emphasized that that face has horns.

[Cole Kushna]

Right.

[Camden Ostrander]

So if that was the saint. That would be like, see, this is what we mean with like, there's. So. It's. So, yeah, there's stuff to do, there's unpackage.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. Saint is like someone the saint would not follow your. You. You devote to you express gratitude for. You know, there's obviously Christian iconography there. But if. If the mother is the guiding light, so to speak, on the album, it would make sense that she is actually the saint and not the Tyler character.

[Camden Ostrander]

Right.

[Cole Kushna]

And if. If it's back home at chromacopia and mama said I'm special, meaning within this house that I grew up in was like this safe space. Because my mother was supportive and always encouraging me, giving me this advice that I'm only now understanding and really feels like the light of his world. The house could be chromocopia if. Especially if his plan was to talk about maybe some of the rougher aspects of his upbringing and this having a space, safe space, and calling it chroma copia, where he was allowed to be himself and not, you know, and so that's kind of where I'm. My mind's going with that. In terms of what is chromucopia but chroma itself? There's. Like I talked about in the. The pre release episode, there's a ton of definitions for it. The base level, simplest explanation is that it just means color, but specifically it refers to a certain aspect of color. And one definition is it represents the, quote, purity of a color related to saturation, with lower chroma being less pure or more washed out. So if the. Now, if the central analogy is mom saying, don't dim your light for anyone, and the temptation to dim your light as you get older. Chroma copia. Copia, meaning abundance, seems to tie into this idea of still trying to burn pure, burn bright as you age. And how you do that.

[Camden Ostrander]

Right.

[Cole Kushna]

Seems. Seems now with the album for me, at this moment, to be the most relevant explanation. You feeling that too?

[Camden Ostrander]

I buy that. It's just there's so much like. I feel like you talk about this one forever.

[Cole Kushna]

I know.

[Camden Ostrander]

Like that. And that's so exciting. I need to see the live show. I need to see the stuff. I need to see what the heck is going on with the cargo bay. Things like, why do they have karma Copia? Like, I need more, but this is so sick. Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

I had a thought about the cargo shipping containers.

[Camden Ostrander]

What's that?

[Cole Kushna]

So could that be cargo shipping container? Isn't that. Could you consider that baggage?

[Camden Ostrander]

Okay. You could Consider baggage.

[Cole Kushna]

That does make sense.

[Camden Ostrander]

But he's blowing it up.

[Cole Kushna]

So he's blowing up his fronting.

[Camden Ostrander]

Confronting his baggage.

[Cole Kushna]

Confronting his baggage. Right. And then that was kind of.

[Camden Ostrander]

That makes sense. Then. The baggage is the shadowy men.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay. The shadow. Okay. That. I have a thought for that.

[Camden Ostrander]

Okay. What's the shadowy men?

[Cole Kushna]

The shadowy men, which. Okay, if you look at the St. Chroma video, you see the Tyler character leading them. He's in the front of the line, but he is in line.

[Camden Ostrander]

Right.

[Cole Kushna]

And then he distances himself and starts to direct them into there. So if he's at once part of it and he is wearing a mask, as they're all wearing kind of masks, I guess, like, they're the shrouded, silhouetted fate. Yeah. The silhouetted face. So if he's leading them into the cargo. Okay, this is. Yeah, this is definitely. Maybe just be reaching. But if he's leaning in the cargo and then exploding it, could that just be, like. It's violent, but it's also, like, symbolic of transformation. Could that be him kind of leading these people to confront their own baggage, to take off their mask, to access this light, this color, maybe? Kind maybe. Yeah. I don't know. That's, like, really the only thing. Like, why else? Or. Okay. I should. We should also caveat this with, like, the rollout elements. Could just be a separate thing. Could just be loosely tied. Yeah, they just could look cool.

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

The character just look. Could just look cool.

[Camden Ostrander]

I'm gonna be. I must be so mad at Tyler if that's the case, though. Like.

[Cole Kushna]

Well, you think about, like, Igor. It's like, did the Igor character.

[Camden Ostrander]

I love the ego character.

[Cole Kushna]

I know, but did it really, like, relate to the album?

[Camden Ostrander]

I think.

[Cole Kushna]

How much did the blonde wig and the suit, like, illuminate the album? Like, was it directly tied or was it like. That just looks cool.

[Camden Ostrander]

It was character. It was performance. It also just looked cool. We'll never know. We're never going to know.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. So. But it's like, as we're speculating, it's like there's just a possibility that these world elements are just kind of aesthetic.

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, so a couple other things. Military theme.

[Camden Ostrander]

Mm.

[Cole Kushna]

The only thing I could think about for this was, like, the idea of going to war with yourself.

[Camden Ostrander]

Okay.

[Cole Kushna]

I. Other than that, I don't. I just don't know.

[Camden Ostrander]

Got you. For me, this is part of the crux of the masculinity. But masculinity seems to touch so many of the, like, the motifs and the things we're talking about. Because it's. To me, it's the dogs. It is the military aspect.

[Cole Kushna]

The dog. Yeah. Dog barking throughout the entire album, you should just say, yeah.

[Camden Ostrander]

Unlike him, right after Baby Keem, when the dog's barking, he's talking about his dad. I'm like, yeah, that type of thing. And then the mask. That is masculinity. Like, to me, the military stuff is all encompassing of the masculinity that Tyler is sort of interrogating and engaging with. Right. There's ideas of, like, order. There's ideas of aggression. There's ideas of just falling in line, violence. I also. One of the things that I thought was, like, such an achievement of the album and that is gonna make it so rewarding to spend time with how maximal the sounds are, how there's so much going on. He gets to holistically pack in all the, like, semi stuff, all the stuff that's kind of out exterior noise that we're constantly dealing with. There are these stresses on him. There is thoughts of war, like combat, conflict. And just again, it is masculinity, aggression. Like, that stuff is always making some type of noise in our head.

[Cole Kushna]

Right.

[Camden Ostrander]

That's what it feels like to me.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay.

[Camden Ostrander]

It might even just be, like, a feeling exacerbator. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, it's loaded.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay. Yeah, yeah. And then, like, the devil horns, I just kind of have no clue about, to be honest.

[Camden Ostrander]

Okay. So I'm. I don't know if other people are Also thought that. I thought it was, like, the Gemini rights horns, which initially made me be interested, because Steve. Steve Lacey, the Steve Lacy album. Because one thing that's also interesting is Tyler's taking influences, and we're gonna. We should do this. Tyler is taking influences from things that are happening right now. Like, contemporary art is actually influencing Tyler's work, like, in the moment. Do you want to talk about Kendrick?

[Cole Kushna]

Like, oh, right. Yeah.

[Camden Ostrander]

We might as well.

[Cole Kushna]

We need to.

[Camden Ostrander]

Right? Because he's getting inspired and he's actually doing it instead. Everybody who, like, is getting inspired by stuff from 20 years ago.

[Cole Kushna]

Right, Right. Yeah. He's not afraid to be inspired by his peers. Peers, which is feel definitely feels rare.

[Camden Ostrander]

Um, and that's a masculinity thing too, right?

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, right. Exactly.

[Camden Ostrander]

You don't want to be big dogged by your peers.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, right. But, yeah, I. When I was listening, especially, like, the second, third time, I was like, wow, this really reminds me of Mr. Morale in a lot of ways. And I was just like, am I just so immersed in this album right now. Wink, wink. That. That I'm just. That I'm just making this connection that's not quite there, but. No, it's there, but I saw a lot of people also making that connection. And then there's a few interview clips from maybe last year or two years ago of Tyler just, you know, waxing poetic about that album and specifically saying that a lot of people don't listen to it because it's so honest. And it feels like Kendrick looking you in your eyes. And it gets uncomfortable because it forces you to get as introspective as Kendrick and raw and honest as Kendrick is on the album. And so it feels like Tyler was really excited about. Or, I don't know, maybe inspired by that.

[Camden Ostrander]

Put a battery in his back or something. Like.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, because. And especially coming off of Call me if you get lost, which is, you know, for the most, there's some moments of vulnerability around this relationship, but. And I think, like, the song Will Shire is probably the. The epitome of that on that album, but, you know, for the most part, that. That was a victory lap. That was a lot of bravado and machismo. And I can see where being. Doing the total opposite would be very attracted to him creatively as a challenge, because obviously he's been more comfortable with vulnerability since Flower Boy, showing moments, obviously throughout his career, but it really kind of coming to a head at Flower Boy and then kind of continuing from there. But there is. There definitely does feel like. Like this is a different. This is a deeper layer of that vulnerability on this album. And then I think of the mask being a motif that is. I mean, that is one of the main things on Mr. Morale is this idea of a mask. I don't want to give too much about it away because it's very. It's very central. And the way that Kendrick uses it is brilliant. I think of the end of Take youe Mask off and Tyler looking in the mirror. I think of Mr. Morale ending on the song Mirror and how that was a huge part of Mr. Morale, too. To me, it's not as deep as Kendrick. I think they just have different life experiences and Kendrick is just able to achieve an emotional depth that I just don't feel like a lot of artists in the history of music have been able to achieve. So it's not quite on the. On the level to me, but it feels like Tyler's version of it, you know, and very honorable to go back to your point about. Yeah. Letting your peers inspire you transparently is really cool. And especially in a genre that everyone is influenced by each other, but they try to hide it.

[Camden Ostrander]

They hide it. They just want to say they're better than each other. Like, this is. This was what the thought I was dead when I'm talking. Like his version of it now is a more evolved. Like there is some inspiration happening. This is. We are working together towards something. Like it's really sick. It's a really good attitude that will act. That actually breeds productivity and creativity.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. So much to chew on. Was there any other.

[Camden Ostrander]

I mean, breaking traditions. Are we sad about no double Trek 10 song?

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. So let's lay that out for people that don't know. Traditionally, Tyler has had a double song, so to speak, as his tenth track, dating back to Project one, right?

[Camden Ostrander]

I think so, yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

He also broke his two year release cadence on Odd Years, which has been a thing since day one as well. And he broke the tradition of a Friday release. So I'm not. I'm glad he is getting himself. I don't know why he was sticking to that. Maybe it was just a rhythm thing, maybe it was a deadline thing pushing him to create. But like I said a few times on the pod, I'm excited by the Tyler project that took three years. I'm excited by the notion of a Tyler project that takes four years. Because I think the extra year shows on this album. I don't really care about the 10. I don't know, I mean, at some point it's like arbitrary track 10s, two songs, if it's not adding to this particular project, whatever.

[Camden Ostrander]

Right, Right.

[Cole Kushna]

What do you think?

[Camden Ostrander]

I. I thought it was cool that like it serves the function of him talking about like he's breaking traditions a lot on this album. He's breaking some patterns, some that he doesn't like.

[Cole Kushna]

Right.

[Camden Ostrander]

The. There's a shift in perspective on his dad. There's a shift in perspective on so many of these things. It would make sense for this to be a shift in structure of album. Like, I think it all works together. Really cool that we're getting this. This new phase is awesome.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was excited by it. I'm very impressed. I just want to reiterate how impressed I am with this album. It was not what I expected, but in some ways it's better than what I was expecting. So I'm really grateful for another Tyler album. Kendrick, you gotta be next. Just the end of the year.

[Camden Ostrander]

How can you ask us so much from this year? How can you.

[Cole Kushna]

This year's been great. But come on, cap it off with a Kendrick album. Like, we're getting a Denzel project. We're Getting west side, 2 West side gun albums. We're getting a Corday project. We got a doi album. Like this album has been or this year has been.

[Camden Ostrander]

Shout out this 2024.

[Cole Kushna]

I know.

[Camden Ostrander]

Jesus.

[Cole Kushna]

Pretty amazing. But cap it off with a West Coast Kendrick album, please.

[Camden Ostrander]

There you go.

[Cole Kushna]

All right. Well, Cam, thank you for joining. As always.

[Camden Ostrander]

Thank you for having me. This was wonderful.

[Cole Kushna]

I am. Okay. I am working on the next season of Dissect. If you're still listening. It's taking longer than usual. I'll just say the album is very intense and heavy and deep, and so I want to do it justice.

[Camden Ostrander]

True.

[Cole Kushna]

So we are. So I'm working my best on it. Okay. And there might be an added layer to the content that is also taking some time. So I am working on that. We'll be back for sure, me and Cam, in December to talk about our favorite albums of the year.

[Camden Ostrander]

I wonder what they will be. Okay.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, yeah. I got. I got some other episodes in the clip too, so keep a look on that and I'll talk to you guys soon. Okay. See you.

[Camden Ostrander]

Yeah, we ain't talking to your dumb ass.

[Cole Kushna]

You could be a millionaire. Still be a bum ass boy. I've been in the dream. I've been on the team.

[Camden Ostrander]

Okay, look why I work so hard.

[Cole Kushna]

My soul profit.