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- [00:01]
Cole Kushner
This episode is presented by so delicious Dairy Free. We listen to music to free our minds. But are you ready to dairy free your mind? This summer, discover so delicious dairy free frozen desserts with so many next level flavors that are 100% dairy free and unbelievably creamy. Your taste buds will do a double take as you figure out your ultimate flavor. Is it salted caramel cluster or chocolate cookies and cream? Cookie dough or coconut? Vanilla bean or even mint chip or the classic vanilla? Find out at so delicious dairy free.com welcome, everyone, to a special episode of dissect. I'm your host, Cole Kushner, and here to talk about Klipse's new album, Let God Sort him Out, is the most culturally inappropriate guest I could find. Yeah, the push a T to my malice. Charles Holmes. How you doing, buddy?
- [00:51]
Charles Holmes
I'm doing so well. This is like, this is my group. This is my type of music. That negativity, that fucking, that grit, that, ugh, I'm so excited. Also, you are my malice. You are like the heart, the soul. You know what I'm saying? Looking at me in interviews, being like, here you go again, talking that shit.
- [01:15]
Cole Kushner
I'm just quietly put, like, very politely just watching you go off. Yeah, well, yeah. We're here to talk about Clipse's new album. Charles, you're somewhat of a super fan, right? Give the audience a little bit of taste of your Clips fandom. I might have heard you say one time they're your favorite rap group, maybe even above Outkast. Is that true?
- [01:35]
Charles Holmes
Personally, I'm not saying that they're the better group. I'm not ready to have that conversation. But in terms of personally, my taste, Clips is that group for me. It's everything I love about rap. And it's funny, my Clips fandom, like, I can remember watching the grinding music video on. On mtv, but it wasn't until really college where I just became just a super fan. That was around the time that Pusha T was with good music and he was releasing, you know, all those albums. And I don't know what it was about that time in my life, but I Every single album, the mixtapes, to everything, I can't get enough. Were you a Clips fan? Because we've talked about this. On last song Standing, you had that weird time when you went to college where you completely dropped off with pop music and you were super in your classical bag. So were you a fan of Clips?
- [02:29]
Cole Kushner
I was actually. My best friend was a super fan of Pharrell, Neptunes and Clips So he turned. And this was pre college days, so he turned me on to Clips pretty early on. Like, I remember the album's coming out in real time and listening to them with him in real time. It's interesting, though. They're one of the groups, though, when you listen to them when you're young and then you return to them when you're younger. At least for me, I didn't realize everything they were doing, especially lyrically, sonically. I was always drawn to Neptune's production, and it's so obvious how far ahead of their time the Neptunes were in terms of production. But lyrically, going back to those albums and then now with this new album, it's just like, these guys are just fucking masters.
- [03:13]
Charles Holmes
They're so good. And you wanna know what I think also is funny? I think we're now at a time with this album where we're respecting clips as lyricists, where they've all. To your point, they've always been this good, They've always been this lyrical. But I just. If you would've told me back when I heard the Grindin beat that they could release an album in 2025 and. And still sound fresh. That's the. That's. The one's different. Like, this is no shot at Nas. Nas sounds old on this record. You know what I mean? Like, his flow. Like, he. Nas is a. Is a G. He is one of the greatest ever. But struggle sometimes to sound contemporary to me. In my ear, I'm like, oh, Pusha T and Malice still sound contemporary. They still sound fresh. They still like the beats. Pharrell, I was. Before we get into our first impressions, that was one thing where I was like, damn, they're 50, late 40s still rapping. So well, it's pretty incredible.
- [04:12]
Cole Kushner
And yeah, I think we'll talk about a little bit of like, hip hop and its maturation and living with these. Some of these artists and seeing Eminem age one way and seeing maybe clips aging another, seeing an Andre 3000 aging on a whole another sphere and just like, yeah, well, let's. Let's save a little bit because I want to start with we're going to talk about our favorite songs, we're going to talk about the features, we're going to talk about production. But I want to honor the rollout a little bit before we get into the actual album, because I don't know about. For you, this was one of the most enjoyable rollouts in recent memory. For me, it's. I think a lot of it is a product of them having this record recorded for over a year and maybe just having the time to kind of strategically plan it out. But it just seems so tasteful in terms of, like, who they are talking to, you know, the outlets they chose to talk about, what they chose to talk about in those interviews. The way the visuals and the. The. Everything was just this. Obviously the songs were great, the music videos were great, and it just seemed like everything was just the. That even the tempo of, like, we would get something every week, it seems like. But it wasn't. Never felt like it was. It was. They were overdoing it, which you can kind of, you know, like, wasn't. Didn't feel like a big budget rollout, but it did feel very strategic and, like, to me, very effective to the point where, like, nowadays I actually don't like long rollouts because it seems like the artist or the people around them kind of struggle to carry momentums for months in the way that they kind of used to. But this one felt totally, totally great. Are you in agreement on that?
- [05:50]
Charles Holmes
I mean, as someone who came was cut from this cloth, like music, magazines, radio, interviews. I think the funniest thing about this roller is, like, music used to be like this. Like, when you were going to promote a record, you would do an interview with Rolling stone, with Billboard. You go to the New York Times, you would have your radio run. And what I love about this is, I think. And I remember when it started happening in my life with the Weeknd. I think the weeknd was influential in a bad way. Where. Oh, mysterious. We don't know his name we don't know his face. No interviews. Know this, no that. And I think along the way, with social media especially, artists wanted to take back control of their narrative to such an extent. Why should I have to give an interview when I have my own Instagram, when I have my Twitter, when I can have my own TikTok? But what I think this rollout has hopefully taught the industry is that clips were never big sellers. You know, they have hit records, but they've always had a story to tell. And the thing that's so enjoyable going and listening to this record is I can listen to a popcast interview, which was phenomenal, and then I could have a greater understanding of the music. Even songs I don't enjoy, I'm like, but the story behind it was so good. They're painting like, oh, we were out in Paris with pharrell, and this is what it felt like. And everybody who was working on LV was CR and this and that. I think more artists need to. To understand that that only helps the music. Talking to experts, talking to people who love this shit, only makes my appreciation for the product deeper.
- [07:27]
Cole Kushner
Yeah. And also how to get, like, a little bit of everything. Because when the rollout started to happen, it was like the Travis Scott beef and the yay lines, and it was like, you know, we got a taste of, like, some. Some. We got some tea, you know, Was it, you know, enjoyable? Yeah, but then. But then we started getting the more of the quality interviews, the more meaningful interviews, and seeing them together again was just great. And just Push. Push is just such a great interview. Like, he just doesn't give a fuck. He just. He just. He'll just say exactly how he's thinking. It's. It's just. There's an authenticity to both of these guys that is just so enjoyable.
- [08:00]
Charles Holmes
I mean, I'm not the first one to. To notice this. I've almost probably watched, like, every single clips interview and the face that Malice makes when Pusha T gets into that zone of talking his shit. Because in every interview, Pusha T will say something that is so fucking funny, whether it is about Kanye or Travis. He called Travis. He's like, doing his little monkey dance. He was like, Kanye. He's like, I don't respect him as a leader. I only like his music. Every single. Whether it's Jim Jones, whoever, and just Malice being like, all right, you got. You got my little bro going again. All right, here we go. But also what's funny too is, have you noticed in some of the interviews, you can see when Malice is like, this is exactly why I left the industry. When they start bringing up Drake and shit, he's like, God damn. Another. Which is fascinating, I know.
- [08:52]
Cole Kushner
Yeah. He doesn't seem as enthused with the press run. And I mean, to his credit, he kind of just lets Push take over for 90% of it and just drops gems when he feels like it. But and also the fact that this album was made in Paris, the Louis Vuitton headquarters is just. When you think about how they came in the industry with, like, Bape and. And then ice cream and kind of being an icon, early icon of street wear and now the ascension of Pharrell and. And clips alongside them, just the symbolism that of that. Because to your point, like, in 2004, whenever could they. Can you imagine them making a record in 2025 that would sound this good? And if you knew back then that they would be recording it in the literal Louis Vuitton headquarters. There's something so beautiful and poetic about just that symbolism.
- [09:44]
Charles Holmes
I mean, I could not agree more. And it's funny. Do you think that rappers even have that much power to, like, when I was growing up, style, you know, whether it was, like, wanting to wear Rocawear because that was what hov was wearing, or everything that. That the clips did with Pharrell, where it was like, when I was a kid, I could not afford the clothes, but bape, BBC ice cream, like, Pusha T and Mouse were part of that. I would see them on, like, covers and interviews, and I'm like, these are the coolest any rappers ever fucking looked. And that's something that I miss now, where I'm like, it does. It's not that same thing where it's like, you would see what a rapper was wearing. And as a kid, I was 12, just being like, fuck, if I could just get a bape hoodie, I'd be this person.
- [10:33]
Cole Kushner
Did you have an Oliver print hoodie?
- [10:36]
Charles Holmes
No, my parents were not fucking with that shit. They were just not. I had. You know what? I had some Evisu jeans. I had some lrg. You know, I had a little bit. I wasn't, like. I wasn't pulling any of it off. I looked like a dork. But that is something where it's like. You probably remember your friend who was into the clips. I guarantee you he was sold on the entire image, the entire brand that they were selling.
- [10:59]
Cole Kushner
Yeah, we were in. We wanted to be just like them. We didn't have enough money to be, but. And we're white, but so, you know, there's. There's limitations to the imitation. But, yeah, for sure, they were. Pharrell, especially, was just. I mean, still so cool. But back then, oh, my God.
- [11:16]
Charles Holmes
But even because Pharrell, too, like, I've been very, very off Pharrell for a while because it's just like, he. He's always an icon. He's a legend, but I think he's been in a very. Like, I'm above the fray. I'm not gonna beef with Drake or. Or, like, I'm not gonna do all that. And I was watching the complex cover video where they were kind of breaking down all the. The songs, and we finally got to see Pharrell talk his shit. Like, we got, like. We were like, oh, Pharrell, he pays attention. He knows people think he lost it. And he just, like, the look on his face, like, hearing his own beats, listening to the clips, rap. I'm like, oh, this is The Pharrell that I grew up on, this was the, like, in my mind talking shit, a fly as hell Pharrell that I love to see. I want. I wish Pharrell gave us more of that energy more often because it's something we don't get anymore.
- [12:09]
Cole Kushner
Yeah. And you could tell he was. He was genuinely inspired to make this project because one of my worries going into it was like, you know, when you get to be the designer of the head designer of Louis Vuitton, it's like, how much time do you have to make an album?
- [12:24]
Charles Holmes
Yeah.
- [12:24]
Cole Kushner
You know, and it's like, was he going to be spread too thin? And to his credit, I don't know if he's working with other guys and stuff, but, I mean, these beats sound phenomenal. They sound rushed. They sound polished. They sound. I mean, in that interview, he's talking about all the polishing that he did to every single sound, every single beat. I love the fact that the album's 13 songs and 40 minutes long. It's the perfect length in and out. Every song is quality. Not. At least not yet. I'm not reaching for the phone to skip a song. Like, the track list plays beautifully. So, yeah, let's just jump into our first impressions of it. We talked a little bit offline, you know, about it. When? On Friday when it came out, we kind of had similar thoughts. But now we've had the weekend together or the weekend to kind of take it in. I've been playing it non stop. So what do you think now? What are your general thoughts on it now?
- [13:17]
Charles Holmes
I love the album way more than I did first listen, and my first listen wasn't. I think what was happening is what's hard with clips is that so few rappers get to this point where Pusha t is late 40s, Malice is in his 50s, Pharrell is. Is getting up there. And my. My affinity for Lord Willen. Hell hath no fury. Those beats, those rhymes. With any clips record, I'm kind of like, is it gonna get there? Is it gonna get there?
- [13:50]
Cole Kushner
Yeah.
- [13:51]
Charles Holmes
And then I put the song on and, like, I put the album on in my car and it finally washed over. I was like, oh, fuck, yes. This is. This is it. This is what I wanted. It took the car ride to be like, they still fucking have it. They like hearing. So be it. Mike Tyson blow to the face. I roll my windows down. I even felt this excited. I remember I was texting you. I even felt this excited since whatchamacallit Kendrick dropped whatchamacallit Biggest song of the. Of the year.
- [14:21]
Cole Kushner
Not like us.
- [14:22]
Charles Holmes
Yes. Not like us. That was a. Like, I literally was just like. I cranked Mike Tyson up. I rolled down the window. I'm like, everybody in my neighborhood. This is the greatest day of my life. I am very high on the record right now. What about you?
- [14:35]
Cole Kushner
Yeah, same, Same, I think. I mean, you know, one of the catches with a long rollout is that there is all this anticipation and, like, you're putting a lot of pressure on the album to live up to this three months of. Of build up. Yeah. So I think. I mean, I was impressed with the singles for sure. I love the singles. I was, like, wondering if the, you know, the rest of album would live up. I think it does. I think that what was jarring for me actually was the first song, Lost.
- [15:01]
Charles Holmes
In emotion Mama's youngest trying to navigate life without my compass Some experience death and feel numbness but. But not me. I felt it all and couldn't function seeing you that day Birds don't sing.
- [15:14]
Cole Kushner
It was just, you know, you have expectations going into the Clips album. You have expectations after hearing the singles and knowing they're kind of. They've. I think their sound has matured and evolved, but it's still. The core of. Of the clips is still, you know, central to the entire thing. And so you put it on. And I was not expecting this. One of the most powerful, beautiful songs about grief and. And your mother's, you know, your parents passing that I've ever heard. Like, it was. It was just kind of a lot right away at, you know, 7:00am in the morning or whatever. I put it on. It was just not what I was expecting. And so it just, like. I don't know, it just kind of like, threw me off. And then it took me a little bit to, like, sink into the album after that.
- [16:00]
Charles Holmes
Can I ask this? I think both of us were leaning towards, like, this is a beautiful song. I love this song. But was it the right move to put it first? And listening to the record more, I was like, oh, there is this narrative thread of loss of grief. There's lines here and there, and I'm like, I kind of now understand it. I don't know if it 100% works, but it gives me a greater appreciation. Even when they're talking their shit, sometimes they slip. Like, there's a couple of lines where, like, Pusha T's talking about his wife having a miscarriage and the thought of his son growing up not knowing his grandmother or, like, malice talking about like, rolling the sunroof down and pointing to the sky. That's where his father is. And I'm like, those lines wouldn't have hit as hard if you don't really start the album with, this is what's happened in our life. This is the biggest thing that's happened to us in decades.
- [16:54]
Cole Kushner
And I mean, it's. There is a question of, like, okay, these guys are pushing. You know, malice is 50, whatever. And. And. And pushes right there about to be 50. And it's like, are they just gonna do the coke wrap thing? Are they just gonna do the luxury thing? I think putting it first was in part to answer the question of, like, why are we making this album? Yeah, because we have something to say. Because we have dealt with things like loss and grief. We have lived life for 15 years, and now we're coming back, and we. And we generally have things to talk about, and we have matured. We do have new things to add to our sound. And I think kind of setting that precedent so boldly, not. Not subtly, it's impossible to. Not to hear that song and not be moved by it. I think if you're really listening to it, some of the best lyricism I've ever heard, especially about a subject like that. Just the storytelling and them getting so specific of, you know, Push. And it's. And it's a song that only they can make, really, because they share the same parents. They are brothers, and they each come with their own perspective. 1. Push talks about his mom and, like, his last memories of her and, like, the regrets that he had in the final moments of, like, missing out on the signs that she. It seems like she was clearly preparing herself. Yeah. To leave and. And he was going on vacation or he's going to Elon and. And Kanye to go visit Elon and Kanye instead of visiting her and. And not spending her last Thanksgiving with her, like, that is just crushing. And that. Just the specificity that he's telling story. Telling it. And then Malice comes with the story about his father, and, like, the moment he finds his father dead and goes to his house and knocks and he's not answering. And then you get the. One of the most powerful lines in the entire album, maybe the most powerful line in the entire album, where the final line of Malice's verse, he says, the way you spelled it out. Or. And this is another reason, actually. So Malice kind of tells us why he came back in the final verse. In the final lines of the second verse of this song, he says, I can hear your Voice now talking about his father. I can feel your presence asking, should I rap again? You gave me your blessing. The way you spelled it out. There's an L in every lesson, boy, you owe it to the world. Let your mess become your message. Yeah. So this. This album, we have, you know, their parents to thank. Like, he gave the blessing. He's the one that told him to do it. And then he has that. The final line where he says, I love my two boys was the code to your phone. And if you go on the genius annotation.
- [19:35]
Charles Holmes
I almost started crying when I read that annotation. It was so, like, I got chills. And even to your point.
- [19:40]
Cole Kushner
Well, just for the. For the listeners. So in the annotation, Malice says when he's going through his father's things, he found that all of his passwords to, like, his To. To. His passwords on his computer and his phone were literally, I love my two boys, which is just so sweet, so endearing.
- [19:58]
Charles Holmes
So it. And when we're talking about how the rollout added to. To this album, when Malice, in a lot of interviews, he was like, I went to my dad, who's a deacon in the church, to ask his thoughts about, should I. Should I rap again? And he was like, I was caught off guard because he was like, son, you've been too hard on yourself. And just to, like, just to hear that and then go into the record and see Malice. Malice moving and rapping in a way where I'm like, oh, oh. Part of that hunger is because this man that he loves so much, that was so influential was just like, yo, you gotta share your gift with the world. This is the greatest thing that you do. Like, come on, you're being too hard on yourself. It's so much. I don't know, it's overwhelming. Now, can I ask, does the John Legend hook work? Because I don't know if he does.
- [20:55]
Cole Kushner
Well, I've just never. I'll say up front, I've just never been a big fan of John Legend. It's just not for me. So I think the melody works for me. Understanding, like, the sentiment of the song, it's hard to critique it because it is so personal and.
- [21:13]
Charles Holmes
And.
- [21:14]
Cole Kushner
And, you know, so it's like. But is it for me? Exactly. No. I mean, no.
- [21:19]
Charles Holmes
Well, here's the thing, too. I think what's so jarring for me is a couple things. Things I get why it makes sense. Obviously, there's a good connection. I'm someone who, like, I was also a fan of everything good Music. Did I. I listened to the first John. I listened to a bunch of John Legend records. I was a fan. But what's weird about the clips, if you think about it, most of their, like, big poppy stuff they usually do for other people's records, like Senorita Justin Timberlake, Seniorita wasn't on Eclipse Record. Usually, especially with those first two records, you're not really having singers on that shit. You know, songs like Whamp Wham Virginia, all this stuff. Maybe you'll get a little bit of like a Pharrell melody. But even. Even Pusha T was telling a funny story when. When. Back when the Neptunes were first coming up and they started popping before the clips, when they got the beat for grinding, Pusha T was just like, hey, yo, this ain't this. Like, where's the hook? Like, where are you singing? You. You singing for Hov. You singing for this? For. Like, we want your melodic. They've never been that Clips have always been raps first. And to start your. Your album back with John Legend is a little bit. As a fan, I'm like, this is. Yeah, this is. And it's almost reminiscent of Pusha T's solo career because that's when he started to work with the Dream More and Kanye. And that's also a thing that's kind of running through this record is. I'm like, oh, Pusha T changed as an artist since the last time that they were together. So, yeah, it's. I. I don't want to be an John Legend did do a bad job. It's just.
- [22:48]
Cole Kushner
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [22:49]
Charles Holmes
It was. I was like, oh, John Legends on this. I was like, okay, yeah, it's.
- [22:53]
Cole Kushner
I mean, it's a lot. I mean, it's just a. It's a. It's a. It's a big way to start the album. It's. I mean, will I listen to that song all the time? I'm probably get. Most of the time. I'm probably going to start with chains and Whips. Because when I put on Eclipso album, maybe I'm not looking for that right away. So, you know, so let's. Let's get into chains and whips. Because I. This song is phenomenal.
- [23:14]
Charles Holmes
Uncle said, you must be sick. All you talk about is just get rich, choke my neck, and ice my beat. The system with chains and whips. This is culturally inappropriate.
- [23:27]
Cole Kushner
The beat.
- [23:27]
Charles Holmes
The beat is insane. It is insane.
- [23:32]
Cole Kushner
And then the hook, dude, like, just. So let's just talk about their writing because it's like, I'VE been reading through the lyrics all weekend, trying to pull out some stuff to dissect. And it's like, close your eyes and point your finger. And it's like you're. Every line. It's literally. Every single line is so well written, has doubles internal rhymes. Like, there's just. And like. And the articulation of both of them is unprecedented. These guys, like, the way they just enunciate words is just so beautiful and just, I don't know, so potent because I will say.
- [24:08]
Charles Holmes
But don't. Don't gloss over that, because that's. That's some real shit. The thing that differentiates clips from so many people is that shit is crystal clear. Every word, every line, you can tell what they're saying. And that's honestly why I've always loved them, because that's. If you really go through the history of rap. Name me other rappers who are able to do everything you're saying and still make it crystal clear. Still like. And it almost. Can I ask you this? Does the enunciation almost make what they do seem easy? Where it makes it seem simple, like, it makes it seem more simple than it is. And then you read the lines and you're just like, oh, there's like fucking three fucking dick. Like, like, what is happening?
- [24:54]
Cole Kushner
It does feel easy. I mean, especially at this point in their career, they're just veterans. Kind of like just this is second. You can just tell this is like breathing for them. But then, yeah, you go into it and it's deceptively simple. It sounds. Because it sound. Sounds so effortless when they deliver it. And. But yeah, the enunciation. Well, I think they are able also. They're able to enunciate so well because they are such great writers.
- [25:17]
Charles Holmes
Yeah.
- [25:17]
Cole Kushner
When I started digging into the lyrics, you just. The economy of words in every single bar. It's like there's not. There's no fat in any words. They execute the idea with the minimal amount of words every time. And so when you don't have the fat to try to, you know, all these extra syllables that are kind of clunking up your flow, it's like every once they find the pocket, it's like they are. Every line is going to fit that pocket perfectly or they're gonna, you know, and they don't stay in that pocket for the whole verse, they'll change it to pocket up. But once. Once. Each pocket is just so immaculately and just, like, carefully, every word is just calculated and considered. And then when you, like just the lyricism of like or even like. The concept of chains and whips is like, we've heard that concept in hip hop. Like that there's. How many rappers have, you know, done the slavery flip? But it doesn't feel like recycled. It feels fresh. In this context, for whatever reason, when he said, you know, uncle said, you must be sick. All you talk about is just getting rich. Choke my neck and ice my bitch Beat the system with chains and whips. Chains, it's just like, it just gets the people going.
- [26:28]
Charles Holmes
What is also Pusha T. My favorite line on this is what reality TV is, mug wrestling. Because for people who don't know, this is. This is a dis. Pusha T's Pusha T's first verse is going at Jim Jones, who. They had some. They had a little thing back and forth. And when you know it's about Jim Jones and you go back and read the verse, it's the reposition, whatever.
- [26:50]
Cole Kushner
The opening line, something about repossess. You run from repossession because his house, he got. His house got repoed.
- [26:56]
Charles Holmes
It's. But we like so vicious. You know, you go ahead. You are. You are the Kendrick scholar of the world. I need that instant reaction on the verse. What did you think? The two time Gemini with the genocide. I'm generous however you want it Help the gentle kind gentlemen and gangsters connect the agenda her mind move niggas up out of here this get gentrified heavy jeans like gen.
- [27:16]
Cole Kushner
Okay, I'm kind of mad about this verse, to be honest. Okay, so it leaks, right? I do not listen to leaks. And so when it came out, I saw it leaked and I was like, I'm not listening to it. And then of course, the timelines flooded with like the gen. There's Jim, there's like, you know, blah, blah, blah. He's doing the rhyme scheme from nostalgia, but he's flipping it. And so I was like, okay, now I know. Like there's just no surprise. And everyone's building it up. And I still didn't listen to the leak. I was like, I want to hear it within the album. I want to be surprised when he comes in. And that was. It was just ruined for me. And so when I got to his verse, I was so excited, but it was like this. It was just too much buildup. There was no way for it to live up to like the. All the hype that I saw. And so I was just like. I wouldn't say disappointed, but it was just like the experience of it was ruined for me in a way that I just was. I don't know.
- [28:07]
Charles Holmes
You are literally talking about my life for people who don't know. I have another podcast called the Midnight Boys, and there'll be times where I'm just like, you'll just get some room for you. Just like. Oh. Because to your point, I do think the other thing that we're talking about is this song was first premiered at Pharrell's first LV show, if I'm. If I remember correct, where clips were actually. Actually down the. The Runway. So in my mind, I was like, Kendrick is like. I think there was already room. Is like, kendrick is on this. Kendrick is on this. So to your point, this has been months and months and months of being like, where's this? And we didn't talk about the Def.
- [28:45]
Cole Kushner
Jam of it all.
- [28:46]
Charles Holmes
But that was the holdup that Pusha T's. According to Pusha T and Malice, Kendrick did this verse right around when the beef was heating up. And Def Jam essentially, according to them, was censoring their lyrics. They did not want Kendrick and Pusha T on the same record because of their standing beef with Drake because of the lawsuit that Drake is. That Drake has against umg. And I'm like, how can a verse honestly live up to all that drama? If that makes sense, right? There was already lore around it that you're just like, what.
- [29:22]
Cole Kushner
What is this verse?
- [29:23]
Charles Holmes
And once you get it, you're like, this was what got them censored.
- [29:26]
Cole Kushner
Like, so according to. According to clips, you know, this is all allegedly. But it was the last line of Kendrick's feature that they said they didn't. They were uncomfortable with which the last line is trump card told me not to spare your life. So they. They claimed. Clips claimed that Def Jam claimed that they didn't want to. To have any beef with the administration. They didn't want to allude to the assassination. Because I think from my reading on this verse and the story that you just related in terms of this being done at post beef but not. But. But pre gnx essentially my reading out of it because it is so political. He starts off about like, I'm not the candidate to with. And then he talks about Trump and there's all this political stuff. It sounds like it was written right after the Trump assassination in the middle of the election is my. Is my interpretation of it. And so. But like essentially the Trump line was just Def Chimes excuse. But the real thing was the Drake beef and not them wanting these two guys that have now demolished Drake in a. In A rap battle to join up and seem like they're going at UMG's breadwinner. But to their credit, to people that don't know, they bought themselves out of their contract with Def Jam and then now release this independently, which is beautiful. And a distribute.
- [30:48]
Charles Holmes
Yeah, they. And they partner with Roc Nation distribution.
- [30:51]
Cole Kushner
Deal with Roc Nation, but own the masters, which is great. I think that's perfect for them. Seems fitting.
- [30:57]
Charles Holmes
I mean, not. Not spoilers or to step on anything, but I think the fans don't know this yet. You think Tyler had a better showing on this. On this album than Kendrick? Is that true?
- [31:09]
Cole Kushner
I think it is true. I think it is true, but.
- [31:11]
Charles Holmes
Okay, I don't agree. You don't agree? Okay, okay, I don't agree. I actually like the Kendrick verse. That's like. I never thought it happened. I really, really enjoy this guy.
- [31:20]
Cole Kushner
I like it too. I like. Let me like, just state. It's a phenomenal verse. It's a phenomenal. Okay, and I gotta go like, just let me ISO. Because I've gotten ton. Tons of questions about this. So let me just address some of them. Okay. So there's a big. There's a theory going around that Trump or that Kendrick is rapping from Trump's perspective. This was put out by Jeremy Hecht, the Bigger Picture. Great podcast with DJ Head and Elliot Wilson.
- [31:48]
Charles Holmes
Elliot Wilson.
- [31:48]
Cole Kushner
So check that out if you haven't. But he proposed the idea, and I'm not sure how if he was just kind of proposing it or he's really sold on it, but he made some correlations of like, Trump's a Gemini as well the illusion of genocide, saying that he's this candidate. And he kind of pointed at the Pentagon line and like, kind of singled out some of these lines and. And offered the idea that he's rapping from Trump's perspective. I personally, after kind of analyzing the verse, I don't personally subscribe to that interpretation. This. I think he was. It was more about the time in which it was created and seeing a parallel between this kind of election of Drake versus Kendrick being this parallel election with Trump. And I think it was written right after the assassination. And so there is allusions to Trump, but I don't think he's. It doesn't make sense to me why he would be rapping like, as Trump. And it doesn't hold. To me. It doesn't hold up.
- [32:39]
Charles Holmes
Is it just. So is this just your kind of typical rapper State of the Union where this was almost like Kendrick's capstone of Just like, this is why I did everything. Like, this is like this was the state of hip hop and this is why I had to basically be like, not as someone who loves this. Nah.
- [32:57]
Cole Kushner
Let's just think like he wrote this over a year ago thinking that it was going to come out, you know. So he's writing post beef and almost did like a watch the party die like a epilogue type. And it's like it's a part victory lap, part like, here's why I did it, here's this. You know, we've. We're now taking for granted that Kendrick is on this kind of like, I don't know, vindictive kind of, you know, he's on this kind of cutthroat energy that he has since post the beef. But you got to remember, pre beef, post morale, we all thought Kendrick was like either going to leave the industry altogether or he was going to be on this like therapy. I'm healed. Yep. Like, let's lever, you know, love everybody thing. So it's like it is. There is some explaining here that we are taking for granted now that we know kind of what he's been on for the past year. But let me break down. So the famous thing about this verse is that he's doing this gen rhyme scheme where essentially I think it's like eight bars in. He starts the two time Gemini with the genocide. And every line has one gen flip, if not two. Most of them have two, which because he's playing with this idea of two time Gemini with the genocide. And so this is a play on. I think most people are also interpreting it as a play on his nostalgia verse, which is he had the 10 scheme, the 9 and 10 scheme. So it's 10 with Pusha T and nostalgia. And now it's Jen on the Clips album. So there's that connection there.
- [34:26]
Charles Holmes
I like that. So.
- [34:27]
Cole Kushner
And also. Okay, so I gave you my breakdown of the nostalgia beef or nostalgia lyricism where it's like all the nines and tens add up to 87 and 19, 87 and 36 being. There's all these numeric, like really brilliant numerology stuff. Numerology stuff in it. So of course I'm going to like be count. I literally count. Of course I counted all the gens. And I was like, is he doing it again? Here's. Here's my working theory. I wanted to propose it to you because this is the only thing I got. I don't whether he might not just not be doing numerology thing. That could just well be the case. But if he was, here's my best guess so far. I counted. He did. He does a total of 22 gen rhymes starting with Gemini genocide. So there's 15 true gens, like true G E N S's. But the total scheme, there's 22 rhymes and if you look at where that actually starts, the rhyme scheme starts with the 2 time Gemini with the genocide. 2 time 2 2, 22. 22 gens. 2 time gen, 2 time Gemini. You know the duality of Geminis. 22, 2 time Gemini. Are you buying it? I didn't lay it out eloquently there, but I think that I might be onto something. I don't know. What do you think?
- [35:54]
Charles Holmes
I actually am. Wait, so is he trying to basically do a like also two sides of the clips? The malice, the push. Two, two.
- [36:08]
Cole Kushner
Yeah. And it's. I mean he lays it out right there. I mean this is classic Kendrick. He says two time Gemini with the genocide. I'm generous. However you want it. I'll be the gentle kind. So on one hand, the Gemini is genocide, but also gentle. So you're getting the duality, right? This is good kid. Mad city. This is butterfly, Caterpillar. This is Kendrick. This is what he does. But. So that's what I need to think about it more. But I think that's what it is. 22 playing on the two time gen. That's a good.
- [36:36]
Charles Holmes
I'm dusting.
- [36:37]
Cole Kushner
Okay. Is this a layer? A couple of more possibilities for you. G E N gen G N X.
- [36:48]
Charles Holmes
You're not selling me on that one.
- [36:49]
Cole Kushner
Here's how he ends the verse. God gave me light a good year full of free wheel. Trump card told me not to spare your life. Goodyear tire. Free wheel, spare tire. Alluding to gnx. So the gen gnx. Maybe. I don't know.
- [37:12]
Charles Holmes
I mean, here's the thing. And when it was recorded, potentially, was he thinking, oh, they're going to drop this shit right before gnx and it's a little bit of a teaser before he gets the owl perhaps.
- [37:25]
Cole Kushner
Perhaps. I don't know. The last connection I'll just throw out there. Which I didn't come up with. I saw it on the Internet. But G N Gene is Malice's real name, so. And you know, 10 Terrence, you might make a connection there.
- [37:40]
Charles Holmes
But I don't know, I. I'm not as old on that one, but I'm very impressed. I'm very. Here's the thing. You're making me love the Kendrick verse and I already Love it more than you. So.
- [37:50]
Cole Kushner
Okay. Yeah, okay. So I like the. I love it. It's Kendrick. I love it. I just. I'm still getting over the buildup and the letdown of a pot of a verse that was. Had too high of expectations. But okay, let's. Let's move on though. Let's move on to pov. Next song.
- [38:05]
Charles Holmes
I don't buy back. I've topped all these lists. Where's my prize at 60 day stars and 20 year thousandaires. Not enough shopping. Whole lot of browsing theirs.
- [38:15]
Cole Kushner
20 my reinvention, Tyler gets a feature. But before we get to the Tyler feature. I love this song. I love Pusha T's just like nonchalant, like, just extremely disgusted at just. There's so much broke shaming on this album.
- [38:31]
Charles Holmes
That's why I love.
- [38:32]
Cole Kushner
It's just so disgusted.
- [38:35]
Charles Holmes
But here's the thing. This is why I think Pusha T is great. Because Pusha T, he's disgusted with people with the reality stars on Zeus network. He's disgusted with these streamers out there. I love Pusha T because, like, there is this side of him where he's just like, I need to call out what I feel is corny in the culture. And he does it in such a way where I'm like, yo, what's the thousandaire? What's the.
- [39:03]
Cole Kushner
This actually might be my favorite line of the entire album. All I see is 60 day stars and 20 year thousandaires.
- [39:10]
Charles Holmes
So good.
- [39:11]
Cole Kushner
Not enough shopping, Whole lot of browsing errors.
- [39:15]
Charles Holmes
The only Audi here is driven by my output. Like, dog.
- [39:18]
Cole Kushner
Yeah, Audi is a good car, isn't it?
- [39:23]
Charles Holmes
Like, that's what makes it so funny. Because it was like, yo, I was driving in my Toyota Corolla. I'm like, he ain't say nothing about my car.
- [39:34]
Cole Kushner
My Mazda.
- [39:36]
Charles Holmes
Wait, can I. Can. Can I say what my favorite. One of my favorite Malice lines from this is?
- [39:41]
Cole Kushner
Oh, yeah, okay.
- [39:42]
Charles Holmes
I done sung along with rappers I never believe Came back for the money. That's the devil in me. Had to hide it from the church. That's the Jekyll in me.
- [39:50]
Cole Kushner
Oh, my God.
- [39:51]
Charles Holmes
Like, Malice is spazzing on his record.
- [39:56]
Cole Kushner
Yeah. More often than not, I think Malice has the best verse on.
- [40:00]
Charles Holmes
Well. But also what's interesting to me is even though Pusha T is like a top five rapper to me, if I had to make my top five rapper list, Pusha T's in there. That's how much I love Pusha T. But I find it so fascinating how much he all the Little things he has to do where Malice. I agree with you. I think Malice's Versus he's out rapping Push. But Push is doing a lot of the hooks. He's leading off the songs. He's like. He's kind of setting. You can tell that what it's allowing Malice to do is that there was this interview that he did with Ebro, and Ebro was the only one who brought up that he was still releasing music. Is no Malice. And you could tell at that moment he's just like, finally someone like, people acted like I was. I wasn't here. And you can just feel that edge on. On the record of Malice being like, no, you guys forgot who I am. Because I think even historically, most people would say that Malice was the guy better. The better rapper. And I would say Pusha T was the more entertaining rapper. Is that fair?
- [40:59]
Cole Kushner
I think so. I think so. Yeah. I was going to ask you about you're. You notoriously have a complicated relationship with beat switches and Malice's verse on the pov, it comes after Tyler's and there's a beat switch. He doesn't rap. You know, his entire verse is over a brand new beat at the same tempo. Did you like that? Did you think this beat switch was effective?
- [41:23]
Charles Holmes
Yes.
- [41:23]
Cole Kushner
Yeah.
- [41:24]
Charles Holmes
Because it didn't feel like a gimmick. This beat switch was amazing. Here's what. And this isn't. I love beat switches. I do. I just think they've been used too much where it's like almost a lot of times it doesn't feel like the beat switch is adding to the song. It feels like two separate thoughts. And it just feels like they wanted to show us that they could spend a lot of money and do something where it's like, Pharrell is the type of producer. If he's going to do a beat switch, it's going to be for a reason. It's going to sound good. Malice sounds incredible on this. And if I could be real about Tyler as well. I have a complicated relationship with Tyler, but like, yo, if you can think of any rapper right now that is more indebted to Clips. Pharrell, a child of the Neptunes, a child of that sound. You can tell Tyler's like, y' all are not all right. I'm like, tyler, I hear you like this. That line that Tyler has about dirty white, like mosh Pitz.
- [42:20]
Cole Kushner
Oh, yeah.
- [42:22]
Charles Holmes
Insane. I'm like, tyler, I know you had.
- [42:24]
Cole Kushner
A D. He understood the assignment. It's semi clips cosplay. But I love It.
- [42:30]
Charles Holmes
It is clips, cosplay. But do you expect anything different? And I mean that in a good way. Like, I'm like, he's been waiting his entire life.
- [42:38]
Cole Kushner
Exactly. You know, Tyler's story. Like, he's been. Yeah, this is a. This is a pinnacle moment for him. It has to be right. Like, and he met the moment. I think he blends perfectly in. It also makes me want, like, I love Tyler's production. I think one of the most, you know, unique and standout important things about him is that he produces all his own music. But there is a part of me that wants a Tyler the creator mixtape where he's rapping on other people's beats like this. Just. Just rapping. Nothing deep, just, like, go off. Because, like, can you imagine an album like this or an EP like this? And if I'm going to be real.
- [43:14]
Charles Holmes
What I want is actually different. I think I want the Pharrell produced Tyler record now where Tyler doesn't even touch the. He's just. Because here's the thing. I love Tyler. Like, I think Tyler is a really, really, really good producer. But because he's a producer in his own right, it's very rare that we get to, like, hear him for an extended time over other people's production. Can you imagine if Pharrell was like, all right, I'm going to give you, like, yeah, that shit.
- [43:40]
Cole Kushner
Well, that's what I was saying. Like, I want to hear him on other people's beats, not his own.
- [43:44]
Charles Holmes
Oh, I thought you were more so, like, in mixtape. I thought you were just like, hey, yo, I want to hear him on the Grinder beat. I want to hear.
- [43:51]
Cole Kushner
Oh, no. Yeah, you know, yeah, just. Just original production.
- [43:53]
Charles Holmes
Oh, okay. Because I was like, damn, I don't know if I want to hear, like, Todd the Crater over Metro.
- [43:58]
Cole Kushner
Boom.
- [43:59]
Charles Holmes
And I'm like, oh, I can't go sign that one. I was confused.
- [44:03]
Cole Kushner
Yeah, he's. One of my favorite lines on the entire album is the last four lines. I need God to play the lead in my biopic. The Curse of the zeros when you become the devil or the tap dancing negro. I came to terms with I'm a probably. Or I came to terms that I'd probably outgrow my heroes. Like the curse, the zeros, the devil, the God. He's playing into the clips kind of iconography just so perfectly. And it gives you that. Yeah. At the end. So perfect.
- [44:32]
Charles Holmes
So who is this verse directed at? Because Tyler was real quick to be like, hey, yo, he hopped on Twitter. He's like, nah, don't. Don't.
- [44:41]
Cole Kushner
I'm not a Cardi. Right? Yeah. Because there's a line about. Or there's a line about you got sued over a feature.
- [44:47]
Charles Holmes
Yes.
- [44:48]
Cole Kushner
Which sounds like it was Cardi, right?
- [44:51]
Charles Holmes
Cardi.
- [44:53]
Cole Kushner
Yeah. I think that's what he was alluding to on Twitter was like, he had an old friend sued, gave. Essentially. I think it was a cease and desist. And that came out, like, when Chromatopia came out. There's a Cardi verse on the vinyl physical record, the sample pressings of the vinyl has a Cardi verse on one of the songs. And apparently Cardi. This is all allegedly. But, like, apparently Carly sent a cease and desist for it, so people are speculating. It's that.
- [45:22]
Charles Holmes
I'm be honest. I love. I love me some playboy Carti Playboi Carti. Don't need to. To say anything to Tyler. Tyler will pack that up. I love Cardi too. Don't. Don't attack. Dissect people. I love me some Playboi Carti. I never want to hear playboy Cardi in a beef ever.
- [45:40]
Cole Kushner
Yeah. And then, I mean, I came to terms that I'm probably going to outgrow my heroes. I mean, I don't know when this verse was written, but, like, you know, Kanye has been taking shots at Tyler.
- [45:50]
Charles Holmes
That's what I was. That was what I wanted to ask you about. I'm like, I thought that this. A lot of this was some, like. Some Kanye, like. No, I saw. Because Kanye went on that Twitter rant about how Tyler don't have no, like, classic songs or whatever he was fucking saying. And I was just like, hey, I gotta give it to Tyler. Like, shit. And that's also the thing that I love about Clips. They bring out the hate in everyone that touches their record. Kendrick, Tyler, they like, oh, now I can talk.
- [46:20]
Cole Kushner
Hell yeah. Yeah. I've been just thinking, like, you want a Clips record if you're a rapper? Like, just get your hate off. Okay, so be it. So be it.
- [46:33]
Charles Holmes
This is one of my favorite. This is my second favorite song on the entire.
- [46:36]
Cole Kushner
What's your first favorite or have we got there yet? We're gonna go through, I think probably like three more like we just did.
- [46:42]
Charles Holmes
All right, so be it.
- [46:43]
Cole Kushner
Okay.
- [46:44]
Charles Holmes
All right.
- [46:44]
Cole Kushner
So, yeah, go ahead. One of your favorite songs.
- [46:49]
Charles Holmes
This record plays so well. Well, in the whip. Okay. The first night we got to discuss it, you weren't awake. So I played this at, like, 12. That's how much of a fan I am. I'M like, I stayed up till I was just like, all right, Boom, boom, boom, playing it. I hear the beat. Because they hadn't released the CDQ for so Be It. You could only listen to it on, like, YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, whatever. So I was like, I can't wait until this is on Spotify. I hear so Be It Part two. I'm like, oh, we getting a whole verse. No hoe verse. So I'm like, okay, the beat is trash. I'm sorry. I'm trash. I think the so Be it part two beat isn't trash just compared to the original. When I. I'm like, how dare y'?
- [47:30]
Cole Kushner
All?
- [47:30]
Charles Holmes
How dare y'. All. Because I. And then I think within. Within hours, maybe it wasn't even hours they had uploaded it. Have you heard any reason why they switched it?
- [47:42]
Cole Kushner
I have not. And I haven't gone. And I'm sure it's somewhere, but I haven't gone and looked or listened to the part two yet.
- [47:47]
Charles Holmes
So maybe part two will grow on me. But so be it. It's just.
- [47:53]
Cole Kushner
What was different about the beat? Do you remember? Was it like.
- [47:55]
Charles Holmes
It was very, like, just a lot more instrumentation, a lot busier.
- [47:59]
Cole Kushner
But was it. Did it have the same lead and everything? Did it sound like the same sample source, or was it totally different?
- [48:04]
Charles Holmes
I've only listened to it once. So, like, I'm. It's foggy. All I just remember is, like, it still kind of sounds like so Be. It's all the same lyrics and whatever. It was just very orchestral, very ornate, very, very busy in a way that. Like, this so Be It Be. The. The OG One is just crystal clear.
- [48:23]
Cole Kushner
So sparse, but every element is just, like. It hits the. That hook riff is so good that.
- [48:29]
Charles Holmes
That. That. It ain't no secret so be it so be it Smoke. So be it so be it it so be. Wait, wait, wait. I gotta go to some of these lyrics really quick. Give me a sec.
- [48:50]
Cole Kushner
Yeah, and while you're pulling those up, this is. I think this is like, my ideal clips. Hook.
- [48:58]
Charles Holmes
Yes.
- [48:58]
Cole Kushner
I.
- [48:58]
Charles Holmes
Yes.
- [48:59]
Cole Kushner
Like, just give me the. Give me the catchy. The catchy instrumental lead and just push saying, so be it. So be it. Like, just so simple. I think, like, one of my criticisms. Very few criticism of this album is, like, some of the hooks. I'm just, like, not crazy about Pharrell. All due respect to Pharrell, but there are some of the hooks of his. I'm just like. I don't know.
- [49:21]
Charles Holmes
Wait, let's have. Let's have the talk Real quick.
- [49:23]
Cole Kushner
Okay.
- [49:24]
Charles Holmes
Not to get. Not to, not to. All right, I agree. So be it. Is the plot the platonic ideal of a clip song. My problem with this record is that for as good as Pharrell sounds, production wise, the singing voice is. It's tough. And here's the thing. I know what it is. Nobody get mad at me. I've listened to Bill Pharrell music. We all know sometimes that falsetto don't be hitting them notes. That's part of why we love it. Part of what Pharrell sells is a vibe like you. Sometimes you don't like. You listen to a whole referee records with Pharrell, and you just like, you could get a better singer. I wouldn't want a better singer.
- [50:05]
Cole Kushner
Pharrell.
- [50:06]
Charles Holmes
Pharrell, as the producer, knows exactly what the hook needs generally, but I think as he's aged, it's a little spotty. And there are a couple Pharrell hooks on this where I'm like, this isn't it?
- [50:20]
Cole Kushner
Or. Or just for me too is like the hooks just sometimes. Just felt unneeded.
- [50:25]
Charles Holmes
Yes.
- [50:26]
Cole Kushner
Sometimes it's like, do the doom approach. Just two verses in and out and just no hook. No hook. It. I know. I know clips does hooks traditionally, but like some of these songs, I'm just.
- [50:36]
Charles Holmes
Like, some of them don't. I would say a lot of the ones that, like Pharrell is on. To your point, I'm just like, all you need to do is take off this Pharrell hook and the. The song becomes like 25% better. And once again, Pharrell did an amazing job on this.
- [50:50]
Cole Kushner
Yeah.
- [50:50]
Charles Holmes
I just think also what we're. What we're probably talking about a little bit is that Pharrell has kind of been lost at sea in. In recent years in terms of what he does musically. When can you say. What's the last great Pharrell beat that you can remember of like, the last 10 years?
- [51:12]
Cole Kushner
Yeah. Off the top. I don't have to think about it, but yeah, to your point. Yeah.
- [51:16]
Charles Holmes
And that's nothing. Here's the thing. To your point, he's at lv. He's been doing.
- [51:19]
Cole Kushner
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's evolved. He's. Yeah. He's doing movies. He's doing soundtracks. Like. Yeah.
- [51:23]
Charles Holmes
So while the production, I think he locked in on, I think he as like. Because that was a classic thing about. About clips as well. When Pharrell would arrive on their track, it was an event. And sometimes I feel like when he arrives on these tracks. Does it. Does it have that same eventful feeling.
- [51:45]
Cole Kushner
Yeah, maybe it was.
- [51:46]
Charles Holmes
Yeah.
- [51:46]
Cole Kushner
And maybe it is a little oversaturation. Maybe instead of, you know, six tracks or whatever he's on, maybe maybe of those three, they would feel more impactful. But he's, you know, he has a consistent voice across the entire record.
- [51:58]
Charles Holmes
So can I. Can I. Can I tell you what my favorite song is?
- [52:02]
Cole Kushner
Did you want to. Did you want to call out any. So be it lines or you want to move.
- [52:06]
Charles Holmes
Oh, yes, I found it.
- [52:08]
Cole Kushner
Okay, push it.
- [52:09]
Charles Holmes
He has this line and I think is one of the slickest lines. And if you blink, you miss it. Fuck around and get your body trace Trying to test me because that I'm with like to draw what is sketchy.
- [52:21]
Cole Kushner
This is the only line I have pulled out from. So be it. It is exactly that couplet.
- [52:25]
Charles Holmes
That couplet is. And once again, I think clips better than any rapper in the world can do couplets like that where when I say it's like, it's easy. When I first I was listening to Sophie so many times and it took somebody on Twitter like just posting the lyrics and I was like, fuck. And. And that they are just so good at those. Just very. There's one line that malice has that's like very, very simple on one of my favorite songs is you niggas is screenwriters. We dream writers took change, touch change. Like King Midas dog.
- [53:02]
Cole Kushner
I got. I got it. I have a. That's like my one like kind of in depth breakdown. So let's get there.
- [53:09]
Charles Holmes
Mike Tyson, blow to the face.
- [53:12]
Cole Kushner
Well, let me before. Before we get there though. Let me. Because you read it kind of fast. I just want people to understand the word if they didn't catch it. So fuck around get your body traced Trying to test me Traced starts this drawing motif because n words that I'm with like to draw when it's sketchy. So draw like literally drawing a sketch but also drawing guns because there's a sketchy situation. So you get the trace. Draw and sketchy. It's like, it's not overly complicated, but it's just so perfectly written, so perfectly delivered. Again, you got the.
- [53:46]
Charles Holmes
You get the sketchy. Like, oh, shit's getting problematic. Like it's just. It works on so many different.
- [53:52]
Cole Kushner
It's so good. Okay. Mike Tyson blow to the face.
- [53:56]
Charles Holmes
You the screenwriters. We dream writers took chains and touch change like King Midas. Imitation is flattery. They seem like us but only 300 bricks can make you. Leonidas, my old plug.
- [54:08]
Cole Kushner
This was my favorite song on first Listen, it might still be my favorite song. Is it your. Is this your number one?
- [54:14]
Charles Holmes
This is my number one song on this album. I think it's the best rap song of the year. The biggie flow, the beat. I listened to the snippet of this before it came out thousands of times. I was like, where was the snippet?
- [54:33]
Cole Kushner
I missed that.
- [54:34]
Charles Holmes
So they gave. Pusha T's whole verse was posted and I think it was when they were promoting the album. I forget around what time it was, but they have kind of like this music video of this black cowboy running through the streets. And I just like looped it and looped it. It is. We have to kind of like dissect the rapping on this, the flow on this, the economy of it.
- [55:01]
Cole Kushner
Again, one of the all time great clips lyrics. The bezos of the nasals.
- [55:07]
Charles Holmes
I had this as well.
- [55:10]
Cole Kushner
That is. That is five words, but really just two words because it's the and of and the the again is. But it's really just bezos, nasals and like how perfect. Again, economy of words. That is a perfect bar for clips. It explains everything about them.
- [55:28]
Charles Holmes
Also, would you say that this is what you were kind of talking about where they don't need this hook to do too much?
- [55:38]
Cole Kushner
Oh, yeah. This is a. This is another perfect.
- [55:41]
Charles Holmes
This is another perfect.
- [55:42]
Cole Kushner
Because it says it's essentially just like part of the verse they repeat, you know, and that's. That to me is the perfect clips, verse or hook. It's just take. Take the catchiest part of your verse and make it the hook, repeat it. Like that's simple. Like. But the word playing the hook is so good. Like if you want Mike Tyson blow to the face, obviously, like there's just a ton. It's not even just like the blow. Mike Tyson being a boxer, but also Mike Tyson like was a Coke. Was on coke.
- [56:12]
Charles Holmes
Yes.
- [56:12]
Cole Kushner
You know, at his height. So it's like even within that there's like multi layers. But then, you know, you forget, like there's internal rhymes. So it's like they're rhyming tice. The tice and Tyson blow and face. So it's shalom ice. She wants the snow on a plate half price when the blow is in the crates means more ice for the moe's and the ace. So they got a triple rhyme scheme throughout all four bars. There's entendre on entendre. It all is playing on this ice motif with the snow. And it's just like. It's just so perfect. Like such a good and then I mean there's two.
- [56:48]
Charles Holmes
There's some lines. The snow alone fill up a mobile home My nigga's name ring like mobile phones and no one's home. That eternal rhyme, the slickness of it, like it just hits you in the gut, bro. What's the Leonidas line? Mouse's Leonidas line is so good.
- [57:06]
Cole Kushner
Okay, yeah, let me get. I'll get there, but we got it. One of my favorite lines too. White back to back roles at the gates. White slave masters, souls in my safe. Oh my God.
- [57:17]
Charles Holmes
Oh, sorry. Like the fans are just like how excited are they gonna get after episode? And I don't know.
- [57:25]
Cole Kushner
Yeah, I mean it's again, you can just like put on a blindfold point put your finger at a lyric and just. It's gonna be great. It's gonna be perfect. Like every single line. But okay, Malice, this might be like the verse of the album.
- [57:38]
Charles Holmes
Are you gonna break down for us?
- [57:40]
Cole Kushner
Okay, yeah. So it's like the whole like last part of his verse because he keeps going back to these motifs. Okay, so it's you N words as screenwriters, we dream writers. So remember screenwriters as a motif, okay. You took change and touched. We took change and touched chains like King Midas. King Midas being this Greek mythology, everything he touched turns to gold. He's flipping that as their come up story. Rags to riches, all that, you know, took these poor circumstances transcended them touching chains. Imitation is flattery. They seem like us. So that. Remember the imitation motif, okay? Only 300 bricks can make you Leonidas. So that rhyming King Midas with Leonidas. So you have this kind of mythology, like timeless tales and tying into the kind of clips mythology they always play with 300 being obviously a movie about Leonidas and this, what's it, the Trojan. Trojan Army. Sparta Army.
- [58:41]
Charles Holmes
Spartan. No, it was. It was Sparta.
- [58:43]
Cole Kushner
King of sparta. Yeah, but 300 is a movie. Calling back to the screenwriters. Opening bar of the sequence. He says, my old plug asked a new plug to reunite us. D class in my ears. Now let me see you bite it. So ears plays on the next line. She want Mike Tyson blow to the face. So he's talking about D class diamonds in its earring. Let me see you bite it. Calls back to the imitation is flattery motif from two lines before. But also sets up Evander Holyfield and Mike Tyson. The biting of Mike Tyson's ear. So we're getting the imagery of that tying it in setting up the hook that's about to come. And then One of my favorite. Again, super simple and clean. I'm talking 96 HOV with the bass. It's just such the perfect end cap on this. Obviously parallel stories with them. And hove bass being an entendre on bass in your car and bass as in cocaine. Just like perfect. Just perfect. All these threads, the. The screenwriter, the movie motif, the imitation Mike Tyson, the blow. Like, I can do this for every fucking line is the point, though.
- [59:51]
Charles Holmes
I mean, even the line. I love this line, but God only knows my intention. But selling dope is a religion. It's like selling dope is a religion.
- [60:00]
Cole Kushner
Yeah.
- [60:01]
Charles Holmes
Malice, relax. You still gotta go to church, bro.
- [60:05]
Cole Kushner
Relax. Or even, like, push his flow where he. Like, he's doing the white python mulatto with the taste. Mike Tyson blow to the face. But then he switches the flow. Twist and turn these guns.
- [60:17]
Charles Holmes
Whoa. That is my twist and turn these guns. But they're getting like. That is the thing that I think they're also really good at is that they're students of the game. You know what I'm saying? They're taking flows that they grew up on that they like and then twisting it in their own way. That is also what I think sometimes maybe the over excitement about this album where I think that this album is very good. But I think what we're actually celebrating is so few rappers now are this new intentional where it's like they want to give us 20, 25 songs. Yeah, the songs sound rushed, the beats sound rushed. You know, it's just like when they're rapping to your point that you brought up earlier, it's not tight. It's not considered. There's not couplets. There's not all this internal rhyme. This is a song that I like when I say is like deceptively simple to be able to have these flows, switch them in and out. This clean, this enunciated is really, really technical work. Even like when Pusha and Malice were talking about Pharrell producing the record, a lot of times they would hear a beat and they'd be like, fuck, how are we gonna rap on this? How are we gonna find a pocket? That's why I honestly think Clips might be the most talented group able to rap over for lb. Because he can throw his most, like, sparse alien. If you just heard it, you'd be like, what is this? And they can just kind of locate exactly what it needs.
- [61:56]
Cole Kushner
Okay. To that point, I'll just call out the technical nerdy shit on so Far Ahead. Is that so Far ahead? Is that like Gospel.
- [62:03]
Charles Holmes
Yes.
- [62:04]
Cole Kushner
Kind of sounding chorus, and he's talking about being so. Like. It's such a classic Pharrell dichotomy of just, like, stunting. But, like, singing, like, this gospel essentially sounds like it belongs in a church.
- [62:14]
Charles Holmes
Wait, is that the one where he goes. They don't know what it is.
- [62:21]
Cole Kushner
It's, like, comically good and then. But that song is in six, eight time, which Pharrell tries to give. Like, there's not a lot of rap songs in 6, 6, 8 time, which is more of a swingy type kind of a seesaw feel. And it's like, if you don't. If all you're used to is rapping four, four on the beat, like, someone will give you a six, eight, and they just won't know how to rap on it. Yeah, but to the. To your point, like, they find. They find a very unique way to wrap over a 6, 8B in a way that, like, they don't know that they're probably rapping on a 6, 8 beat, but Pharrell just hands them this thing, and they're like, yeah, how am I supposed. Where's the groove? Like, this isn't. You know, it's not. Not entirely with my comfort zone. But then eventually they find the groove, and it's great.
- [63:09]
Charles Holmes
Swerving through the lane serving cane still ain't never hit a pothole if I was Brittany griner Imma need Obama only one to swap his chapel furthest from.
- [63:18]
Cole Kushner
The streets Contrast between the gospel chorus of that song. Like, that song, to me, that chorus works to me as comical and, like, over. Like, it's almost, like, too much. Like, comically, too much. Pharrell's hook. I love the contrast between that gospel sound.
- [63:34]
Charles Holmes
I used to hate this song. And it grew on me.
- [63:36]
Cole Kushner
Okay. Yeah.
- [63:36]
Charles Holmes
The kookiness of it was.
- [63:38]
Cole Kushner
It is kind of goofy.
- [63:39]
Charles Holmes
Yeah, it's goofy. But then once you kind of like, you listen to it, you're like, oh, yeah. And to your point, I love the verses on this. I love the flow that they like, the pocket that they're in. Because to your point, you almost have to surrender to the beat. You know what I mean? Where you almost have to. That you can feel push and malice. Once they find the flow that can work on the six, eight, they're just like. You feel like you're in good hands. And that's what I've always felt like with clips. Is that the other thing we haven't talked about? I think clips have some of the best voices for rapping.
- [64:15]
Cole Kushner
Yeah.
- [64:15]
Charles Holmes
I Think their voices and just, like, the texture of it and the cleanness, it's like cocaine. It's clean. It's basic. It's just. Man, sorry. You've never seen me like.
- [64:27]
Cole Kushner
This is, like, as giddy as I think I've ever seen you. It's beautiful. You're like a notorious cynic, and I'm always the optimistic one. And it's. It's kind of. It's kind of.
- [64:38]
Charles Holmes
I mean, does it. Does it surprise you that one of the most negative groups is my favorite? Yeah. Okay.
- [64:46]
Cole Kushner
Yeah, that makes total sense. Well, on that note, well, thanks for. For. For coming on the show to talk about the clips. I think we covered a lot in an hour. Yeah, I'm going to probably do more dissections, so people that want me to break down more bars, I'll have probably at least some shorts on. On. On TikTok and Instagram come in. But we should plug Last Long Standing. So for those that don't know, me and Charles have a podcast called Last Long Standing that publishes on the dissect feed every year. The premise of the show is that we pick one artist. First season one is Kendrick. Second season was Frank Goshen. Third season was Outkast. And the premise of each episode of each season is that we try to. By going through their entire discography episode by episode, album by album, we try to determine that artist's single greatest song. So it's essentially like a, you know, extended album or song bracket, and we talk through every album, every song, nominate our favorite songs for each album, whittle it down until we, me and Charles have to agree on their greatest song of all time. So we have a new season of Last Long Standing coming. Two weeks, essentially two weeks from when this episode drops. So it's coming right after the morale season. And do we want to reveal we're going to mix up the format? Should I. Is that. Should I. That all I should say? Right?
- [66:06]
Charles Holmes
That's all you should say.
- [66:07]
Cole Kushner
Okay, what.
- [66:08]
Charles Holmes
What I want to tell the audience is I think you're going to love where we landed with this season, because I'm all. I'm in the gym getting, like, texts. Cole being like, yo, what is this? Like, you. There is a certain artist that you complimented where I was like, I never thought I'd make this at a. Cole, I've never actually been going into a season. I've never been more interested in your takes that you're going to have. You know what I mean? For, like, kind of what we're cooking up this year. I was like, oh, we're going to hit some records that I don't think we were ever going to be able to hit.
- [66:44]
Cole Kushner
Yeah, yeah, I'm excited on this. So, yeah, we'll have the trailer a week from today so you'll know what the premise of the next season is. And then it's going to premiere. I'm coming down to LA to record in studio, so it'll be our first video podcast. But thank you, Charles.
- [67:01]
Charles Holmes
Dope. Thank you. It's been an honor, man. Yo, everybody, I'll see you later. Sa.