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- [00:00]
A
Foreign to Last Song Standing, I'm Cole Kushna.
- [00:08]
B
And I'm Charles Holmes. And in this fourth season of Last Song Standing, Cole and I are debating our way through some of the best albums of the 21st century in order to crown the greatest album of the last 25 years, aka the Last Album Standing.
- [00:24]
A
Last episode, Eminem's Marshall Mathers LP went against Tyler the Creator's Igor. Ultimately, Eminem came out on top.
- [00:31]
B
Yes, he did. Yes, he did. But on today, first win of the season. All right, first of all, it's been rigged for a while. Let's not get into it, all right? Let's. Let's keep this friendship intact. But on today's episode, we've got two more classic albums going head to head. But first, Cole, how are we feeling about things right now? On the board, we have Kanye West, My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, Beyonce's Lemonade, and last but not least, Eminem's Marshall Mathers lp. I'm kind of feeling good about this.
- [01:04]
A
I feel pretty good too. I mean, as much as it is hard for me to stomach Igor losing, I understand why. I think it's. It's kind of balanced right now, and I think today's episode is going to give it present some more balance, some more genre. I. I mean, this is our first remote episode of the season. The distance between us is going to come together with my excitement for this episode because I. I don't know if I've ever been as excited to record an epis as I am for today's episode.
- [01:30]
B
This was the most fun I've ever had prepping for a last song standing. Like two albums that were. I don't know if we knew how amazing they would be paired together, but I literally just. Even the research for this, for this episode was I just kept reading and watching documentaries and watching videos.
- [01:50]
A
Same with me. I literally had two back to back dreams about Daft Punk last night and the night before. Like, I've been just. Especially the Daft Puck and I don't know. Well, let's reveal our albums and then we'll get into it. Because I'm picking my favorite album of all time, Gun to the Head. I think Kid A by Radiohead. My selection today is my favorite album of all time. I am so excited to talk about it with you specifically.
- [02:12]
B
And I am picking Daft Punk's Discovery, which is probably the album that as an adult is top five. I listen to the most and is one of the most impactful albums as a kid. Like, I remember where I was when I heard this album and one of the songs for the first time, and it just transformed me and is probably the reason that I became a music critic. Before we get too down the rabbit hole of dad punk radio head Cole, let's recap the show premise, the rules, the structure for anybody who might have forgotten.
- [03:12]
A
Yeah. So remember, every episode, Charles and I are going to nominate one album we think should be in contention for the 21st century's best. Each album gets its own half of the episode where we'll make a case for why it's one of the best albums in the last 25 years. Then at the end of the episode, the two albums go head to head, and Charles and I will debate until we can agree on one winner.
- [03:31]
B
The winning album from each episode advances to the season finale, Royal Rumble. That's where Cole and I will face off one last time, eliminating albums one by one until we can crown the greatest album of the 21st century, aka the last album standing. All right, Cole, now that we got all of that out of the way, let's discuss why we paired Discovery with Kid A. Because to let the listeners behind the curtain a little bit, we've actually been very, very malleable with this season. I feel like the albums have always kind of been the albums once we settled on it, but we've been doing a little bit of chess moves to figure out thematically, historically, what are the best pairings.
- [04:17]
A
Yeah, I think for this one specifically, I think both of these albums come out early 2000s. Right. I mean, Kid A is the year 2000. Daft Punk shortly after. And I think these two albums as a pair really can really tell the story of the 21st century and where things kind of giving you definitive markers about where exactly you can point to both of these albums and say, this changed something.
- [04:43]
B
Yeah.
- [04:44]
A
Um, and specific. And they're all kind of. They're both calling to electronic music. Right. Each in their own way. Um, but these are definitive marker points that set the trajectory of music in the 21st century on a whole new path. You know, with Radiohead, which we'll get into probably a little bit more later. You know, they are obviously a rock band that decided to go more in electronic lane. It's. It's. It's funny listening to the Kid A going back to it. It's not as ambitious or innovative as it probably felt back then in terms of, like, it's not really an electronic album, but it was this rock band that decided to essentially change the trajectory of their own career. By abandoning rock music and incorporating more electronic elements. On the other side of this coin, we have Daft Punk, who is a traditional coming. They come from the electronic kind of the underground scene in France and really bring it to the forefront in a way that no other duo or artist has since. Or back then, certainly. So I think, again, these are definitive marker points. I'll toss the same question to you. What. What's interesting about these pairings of what do you see in them?
- [05:57]
B
Symbolically doing more research on both and going back and reading interviews for that time. It's hilarious how both, I would say Thom York specifically and then Daft Punk were both at this inflection point, not only in their careers, but in popular music, where I think that there was a sense in the early 2000s of where else is there to go in rock music? Thom York had even talked about after the. The success of OK Computer, being almost disgusted with the rock mythology and everything that we had been told through the 20th century of, like, what it means to be a rock and roll star. And I think Daft Punk in a very, very similar way. This is their second album. They start to crystallize what they are in terms of, like, coming up with the origin story, the Robot Heads. But there was still this in both groups. There's this tension of people forget, like, Daft Punk started in rock and roll as well. They are very, very talented rock musicians. I think their first band, Darling, was the two of them, with one of the guitarists, I believe, from Phoenix. Another great band. And it's just interesting to see in interviews from that time how both of these artists are almost feeling like trapped in by just classic rock music and these two albums just blowing the doors wide open. And even some of the reviews that I was reading from that time were not as glowing as you would think they are, especially for Kid A. A lot of them, I was like.
- [07:43]
A
Oh, well, even Discovery. Discovery got a 6.4 on Pitchfork.
- [07:46]
B
Yes.
- [07:47]
A
Which is like, crazy. They have since, you know, revise the score to a perfect 10. But it does show you. Like we take for granted the sound of Kid Aid today. And to our modern ears, it doesn't sound, I don't think, like if I played it for a younger generation or even my kids, I don't think they would understand the magnitude of Radiohead going that way. Same with Daft Punk. We kind of take their contributions for granted now. But back then, the reviews are great. I love that they both had mixed reviews at the time because it just shows you where we were in music and what was acceptable, what was palatable and and how fresh and innovative and forward thinking these albums truly were. Even if our modern years kind of like, I mean this Discovery registers as a pop record to me. Yeah, I was surprised about how poppy it really is not to step on too much about Discovery, but yeah, let's, let's get into today because I think we can continue this conversation about the of a really a definitive inflection point in the history of music. So let's start with just I'll give you some basic album facts and then we can continue our conversation. This episode is brought to you by Bleacher Report Football is back and downloading the Bleacher Report app puts you in the middle of the action. Make Bleacher Report your Go to this season for the fastest breaking news alerts covering NFL and college football and don't miss a moment with highlights, scores and live reactions in the app. Get expert analysis on your favorite teams and the news that you want this season. Download the Bleacher Report app today. This episode is brought to you by Prime Prime Delivery is fast. How fast are we talking? We're talking a cooler for your snacks, a folding chair, a Bluetooth speaker, and a six pack of your favorite seltzer delivered by tomorrow. Fast. Oh yeah, extra napkins, last minute guac bowls, backup phone chargers, even a replacement remote. Fast. I feel like I've ordered all of those things. We're talking everything you need for game day. Fast, fast, free delivery. It's on Prem. Released on October 2, 2000, it's Radiohead's fourth studio album and a huge departure from the previous work in OK Computer. Notably, the album did not produce any official singles. However, it still debuted at number one on the US Billboard 200, selling approximately 200 700,000 copies in its first week. Fans and critics were divided as we discussed about the electronic sound, but Kid A is now recognized as one of the best and most influential albums of all time. It was named Best album of the 2000s by Pitchfork and ranked number 20 on Rolling Stones 500 best albums of All Time list. I think, you know, when we're kind of setting this album up, I think it's two things are important. One, were the expectations placed on Radiohead at this time. You know, we've had 50 years of rock music as as you you kind of mentioned there was a question about where, where is rock going to go next and who is going to take us there. And Radiohead with OK Computer were crowned as the future of rock music and they were seen as the kind of the innovators that would usher in a new era of rock music and present a new frontier. And these were going to be the leaders that everyone followed. That still remained true. But the direction that they took specifically after OK Computer was not the direction anyone was expecting. However, it did influence specifically rock music and how rock music musicians approached music. It forever changed that. I can speak to that personally. There is, for me as a musician, there is a before and after Kid A. The band that I was. I was in in at the time was an indie rock band, more traditional rock band. As soon as Kid A came out, we were experimenting with piano. We were bringing in samplers. We were having our parents come and play like abstract horns and trumpets all over our album. That was a direct correlation to Kid A. And I am one of millions of white suburban kids that did the same exact thing. So there is a definitive inflection point. And so in. In rock music and. And rock musicians, I think you pair that with what Radiohead and specifically Tom York was going through, which informed so much of the sound and approach of Kirei, which was. He got essentially like all this weight that dropped on him after OK Computer essentially sent him into like a panic, existential kind of crisis about who he was as an artist, where he wanted his music to go. And to your point, he was kind of sick of rock music. He was sick of being crowned the new kind of Kurt Cobain or whatever. And so, well, before I kind of just turn this into a one man show, Speak to speak to continue the conversation about where you see Kid A and the transition point at the turn of the century.
- [12:34]
B
So I think what's interesting about doing this exercise is that I'm a little younger than you, so I came in towards the end of Radiohead's career Within Rainbows, where I think they had kind of fleshed out the latter half of their career in terms of just being a strict rock band to a rock band that is very much known for experimenting with a lot of different instruments. And going back to Kid A, what was interesting is how it literally sounds like a group developing a new way to construct an album where you can. Even when you're reading how they made the album, I'm like, oh, electronic or how we know how to create a record now was not really prevalent to them. Where it's like, of course the Internet is starting to become a thing, but everything is still like, whether you're talking about the synthesizers or the samplers. To have a bunch of people who are going from a genre that is very guitar forward and basically telling them, sometimes there's not gonna be guitar on this. Sometimes we are going to just have one clip of a sound or we are going to have five minutes of sou sounds. And we are going to have to figure out where the song is in this. And then just kind of the ego management that an album like this takes, where it's like, oh, I'm not going to be part of this, or I'm going to have to completely change how I know how to play my instrument, what it means. And this record sounds like that. And that tension, and when you find that tension breaks and you finally get the harmony is when this album started to make sense for me. This is Kid A To Me is almost an album where you have to, like, surrender yourself to the journey. You have to surrender yourself to the abrasive nature of this where it takes you emotionally. And once you do that, you're like, oh, I understand this. But that is why I do think the. The mixed reactions in the moment don't actually surprise me. Because if you're not used, like, we're. Our ears, to your point, are used to hearing this. Like, Frank Ocean's Blonde is a perfect example of this. It does something similar in R B where it's like, if your ears aren't used to something so abstract, where you have horns and then jazz and then synths and then guitars, you're just like, what the fuck is. This is the most pretentious bullshit I've ever. I've ever heard. But yes, Kid A D. This exercise, I just. My love for this album just blossomed tfold.
- [15:24]
A
Yeah. I think your point about the ego is really. I mean, for Radiohood specifically, you know, they were on the edge of breakup after. After okay, computer and just the. What seemed like studio hell for about a year of them just trying, essentially, Tom not wanting, like, just forcing the band to be like, I'm not writing. Oh, he had writer's block, for one thing. Like, he didn't want to pick up guitar. It made him sick. And so he's basically forcing these four other guys to go on this journey with him. Which I think, aside from Johnny, I think all three of the other members kind of had reservations about it. And to their credit, like, they. It's kind of like the Beatles and sergeant Pepper, you know, like when you had the famous quote, I learned how to play chess during that recording session because it was kind of Paul. Paul and John Lennon's thing, you know, And. And to all the secondary members of Radiohead and the Beatles, to their credit, they adapted. They found ways to contribute. Whether that was by reinventing how Ed played guitar, for instance, he became much more atmospheric and really got into effects pedals, and that's how he adapted to the sound. Or whether it was by subtraction, where a song like Everything In Its Right Place, like only Johnny and Tom are on that song. I think there is one kick drum, but that might be electronic, so technically the other guys aren't even on that song. And that take the ego. The ego death of that, I think, is so important. And in terms of, like, yeah, Kid A would not exist if those members of the band hadn't sacrificed their. You know, it's kind of like recording podcasts. I'm like, charles, actually, you're kind of just not needed on this episode.
- [17:01]
B
Yeah, you know, that's.
- [17:02]
A
It's a little bit hard to stomach. Right. And so to their credit. Yeah. And I think just to paint the picture a little bit more, before we get into trivia and categories, there's a kind of great sequence that kind of tells you just how Mac, like, how huge Radiohead got after the OK Computer almost overnight. So just a month before OK Computers released, the band played to 400 people at their show in Lisbon. Five days after OK Computers released, they were playing into 38,000 people in Dublin. Just a week after that, they headlined Gladstoneberry, performing in front of nearly 100,000 people. So just the, like, the shock of that, like, that, you know, for us, maybe, like, it sounds like a dream come true, which I'm sure it is, but, like, specifically for Tom, this was a really dark time for him. And Kid A is essentially what came out of the darkness. It's. It's. I think it reinvigorated the band. It set them on a totally new trajectory. And I think, historically, we think of. I think OK Computer was enough to cement them as one of the greatest rock bands ever. That and the Bends. But Kid A puts them in a different echelon in terms of, like, innovation really contributing to the. The history of music in a way that you cannot write a history book about popular music in the 21st century without a Radiohead chapter. And I don't think that happens just with OK Computer. I think it's because of Kid A, it's because of Amnesiac. It's because of Eventually In Rainbows. And I guess. I don't know if we want to talk about, like, why Kid A over in Rainbows, but I think for me, at Least it's all this. It's all the historical stuff that we're talking about. We could point to Kid A and have this conversation that we're having about the history of music through this record in a way that I don't think we can within Rainbows.
- [18:52]
B
I think In Rainbows is the more enjoyable listen for me. But to your point, the more ambitious genre defi, like defining and defying record is kidding. Like, this is a record where I was just like, okay, yeah, this is you to your point. With this Discovery, you can point to the moment that it dropped and you're like, okay, nothing ever was the same. And I can point to almost the best and most important music of the 21st century being indebted to both of these albums in. In a way where. In Rainbows is not that.
- [19:25]
A
And I would say the same. It's. It's a parallel analogy to. To me with Discovery versus Random Access Memories. Both in Rainbows and Random Access Memories are capstones on the careers of these great historical musical geniuses. They are specifically to their career. But I think both Discovery and Kid contributed more to the history of music in terms of, like, influence and a specific moment in time. And symbolically, I love the fact that they're both came out in 2000 and 2001. I just, the music nerd in me just loves like it's the literal turn of the century. We get these two century defining albums and again, it's like at all. You could all trace it all back here perfectly.
- [20:10]
B
All right, so are we ready for some trivia? I have two questions for you. I tried to keep them on the easy side since I was attacked by our. Our good friend Justin.
- [20:22]
A
You did good last time.
- [20:22]
B
Justin did good. What's up?
- [20:24]
C
I brought an impartial judge with me today.
- [20:26]
B
Our girl Trina.
- [20:28]
A
Yeah, she's.
- [20:30]
C
She's here.
- [20:30]
B
Trina was barking at me earlier. Look, man, she's got good senses.
- [20:36]
A
Yeah, she.
- [20:36]
C
She was like, oh, no, he's coming in here with some bullshit takes.
- [20:41]
B
I'm not.
- [20:41]
C
I'm not allowing that to happen on my wall Watch. But now Trina's here with us and she's going to be the ultimate arbiter of whether these questions are fair or not.
- [20:52]
A
Oh, some cute.
- [20:53]
B
All right, so my first question.
- [20:55]
A
Okay.
- [20:55]
B
How to Disappear Completely was inspired by a dream where Tom York. Tom York had before the band performed in Dublin. According to York, he was running naked from a tidal wave. Can you name the river he was running next to in his dream?
- [21:10]
A
I can do that. Quite easily, Charles. It's the Liffey Ripper.
- [21:14]
B
All right, you know what? I want to throw you a softball. You got that one right. My next question. I know you're going to get this one right, but I thought it was interesting. Idiotext samples 1976's Emile Dun Lis by Paul Lansky in an essay discussing it. The song being sampled. What famous core did Lansky say inspired his classical computer piece?
- [21:35]
A
Oh, I love that. You like? I was gonna. I'm gonna talk about this. It's the Tristan chord by Rick.
- [21:39]
B
Hell, yes. Can you tell. Can you tell our. Our people what the Tristan chord is?
- [21:43]
A
Well, I'm gonna save. Let me save it because I'm gonna nominate Idiotech. Spoiler alert. And so we'll. I'll save the analysis.
- [21:48]
B
All right. Save the analysis. See, these were things that I.
- [21:51]
A
Two for two, baby.
- [21:52]
B
All right. There was not a lot. Every single time I read something, I'm like, he knows this. He knows this. But without.
- [21:59]
A
Those are good questions. Those are good questions, though. You got if I wasn't such a radiohead nerd, you got two on the board.
- [22:05]
B
With that being said, do you want to get into the categories?
- [22:09]
A
This was really hard for me, but yes, let's go into the categories for.
- [22:13]
B
Each album this season. If y' all ever forgot, we have five categories. Biggest song, Best song, Worst song, Best Deep cut, and best moment. And then at the end of the episode, these five categories from each album will go head to head in order to determine which album wins the episode and earns a spot in the season finale, Royal Rumble. Up first is the biggest song. Where are you going?
- [22:35]
A
Biggest song. I mean, it's actually quite easy because. Because you just look at the streams and it's pretty clear. It's everything in its right. Arguably, it might be the best song, but I love that it's biggest. So I can nominate another best song. This, to me, this song is.
- [23:06]
B
Oh, my God.
- [23:07]
A
The. The intro of this song. Talk about one of the most iconic riffs in music history. That opening piano riff played on the Profit synthesizer is just like. It's like for me, in my mind, it's like that's the moment Bob Dylan goes electric. This is the. This is the first thing people heard post ok Computer. One of the most anticipated albums of all time. They push play. They hear this otherworldly synthesizer and these beautiful piano chords playing in 10, four time. And it's just like. This is. It's just like. People back then are like, what is this? It's. You Know, famously, Bob Dylan goes from a folk acoustic guitar, and at the Newport News or the Newport Music Festival in 1965, he plugs in an electric guitar and people go crazy. He's being called Judas. People are booing, and it's like. It's the same that. To me, the opening piano or profit synthesizer in this song is like. It's the score to the opening of the music documentary on the 21st century music. It's like this is the opening moment of the entire century to me. Am I. Am I being too hyperbolic here?
- [24:18]
B
Yes, because I still have my album to discuss, but keep cooking. Keep going, keep going. Is this your. This is your favorite song off the album?
- [24:29]
A
Probably.
- [24:30]
B
Really?
- [24:30]
A
Probably, yeah.
- [24:31]
B
Because I know you're. I know you already know what mine is, but I like this song as well.
- [24:36]
A
Okay. You do? So, yeah. I mean, just tell me about it. Personally.
- [24:41]
B
This, to me, was a difficult song to get into. And then when I think I watched, like, this documentary that Thom York had discussing the song, and it kind of just opened it up for me. To your point, in terms of just like, weirdly stepping on my stuff. Like, Daft Punk had talked about how, like, One More Time was a bridge between homework and. And discovery. And to your point, this song, to me, is like a bridge between OK Computer and Kid A. And that's what I love about the symmetry of this. To hear the artists, even in the moment, knowing that they needed a track to give us the bridge. Because I'm like, we forget this is the dawn of the Internet, but there's not social media. There's not all of these things that we have to be like, oh, Tyler, the creator, is going in a different route. We know that usually by the time they release, like, the album cover this, you're just like, oh, things are moving more slowly. So it gave me a better appreciation for the song because I was listening to both OK Computer and Kid A kind of at the same time, so I could take myself back to the moment and be like, all right. How jarring of an experience was this when you first hit play?
- [26:08]
A
Yeah. And it was like. To bring up the skeleton key. I think we're gonna try to say that in every episode. This was literally the skeleton key for Radiohead was this song. This was. I think it was the first song they completed for the album. And it ended up being, like, a huge turning point for them, all the band members kind of understanding, okay, we can one, we can do this. We can actually complete a song. After all, like, A Year of Sketches and, and false starts and, and creative differences. Like everyone in the band loved this song even if they weren't playing on it. And so it ended up becoming kind of the window into like this, this whole world that they end up creating with Kid A. I think what's interesting too about we kind of take for granted that it's a piano that's, that is, you know, it's essentially just Tom and piano and electronic effects for the most part on this song. Tom wasn't a piano player at this time, you know, like he was. He was a guitar guy and he barely knew how to play piano, he says. And he bought his first piano in between OK Computer and Kid A. And this was the first thing he wrote on his new piano. And he said that he would just sit there and play this opening riff that we hear on at the start of the song over and over and over. It was kind of like this meditative thing for him. And that meditative quality really translates to me in the song because it does kind of hypnotize you. And it perfectly sets the tone of the entire record. It opens up the world we step into. We hear the iconic Kid A kind of voice effects over the piano. And then, you know, it's funny again, like looking back at this monumental, innovative record and realizing just how many of these songs are still kind of just the foundation of them are still singer songwriter songs. Like, everything in its right place. For how odd it is in terms of time signatures and like not really having a tonal center in a traditional way. Like, it has all the Radiohead like, cool music nerd shit that I love. But when you break it down, it's like they're still kind of a verse, there's still kind of a chorus. Like you could still sing along to it. And I think that's, that's, that's, that's what like electronic people, like, real. Like Aphex Twin famously kind of on Kid A. Aphex Twin being a much more traditional electronic artist and kind of seeing the credit that Cadet was getting, he was kind of like, what's so special about it? I don't get it. Anyone could be doing this because to him, to someone that has a mastery, a true mastery of electronic music, like, he's looking at this and being like, what's the big deal? But, you know, these guys were all new at all of this. This is like they. This is like kids being introduced to a new toy shop and trying to figure out how all the toys work. You know, Tom barely knows how to play piano. Johnny's kind of experimenting with all these weird synthesizers. And again, it all kind of coalesces into this moment, into this song. That, again, is the skeleton key to the entire thing. Not only, I think, for listeners in terms of setting the tone in the entire record, but also for the band.
- [29:02]
B
So I also think what's genius about it is Tom basically opening, which is essentially, to your point, like piano. Like a singer, songwriter piano. He's not good at it. But what I think it does is even subconsciously for the listener is like, at this time, I think electronic music for a lot of people is not cool. It is still. We are still, in terms of this point in music criticism, rock is the center. That is still how we understand popular music. And for Tom to basically be like, I'm going to present you with something that's a little bit different, that has electronic elements, jazz elements, horns, and all this stuff. But before we get to that, the foundation of this is gonna be a man in a piano. I think the caveman in us can understand that, where we're just like it says to a rock audience, even if they don't know it in the moment. Not only is electronic music music, but I can prove it to you in one of the most. When we think of what is just the center of music, I'm like, it's a man at a piano. Like, that's. You know what I mean? If you want to just break it down like that. So that's biggest song. What do you have for best song? If you don't pick the song that I want you to pick, I'm gonna be very mad.
- [30:24]
A
There's. There's kind of just one clear best song to me.
- [30:27]
B
What is it?
- [30:28]
A
It's how to Disappear Completely.
- [30:39]
B
This isn't happening. No. All right.
- [30:47]
A
I know it's not your fit. I know it's not your pick. Idiotech will be talked about Charles in another category, so it's okay.
- [30:56]
B
Okay.
- [30:56]
A
How do you not like that? You don't like how to Disappear Completely? It's one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard.
- [31:00]
B
Oh, I really like this song, actually.
- [31:02]
A
Okay.
- [31:02]
B
I like. I. I really like this song. And what I will say is I relate to this song as a human.
- [31:10]
A
Yeah.
- [31:10]
B
So, so much. But I don't want to snap. I will talk about that later. I want you to go big on this.
- [31:19]
A
Yeah, it's. It's hard to know where to start. I mean, if it does contextualize what a lot of Tom was going through at the Time in terms of, like, the theme of the song is about alienation. It is about this mantra that he was saying to himself. The singer of REM Gave him advice in terms of, like, Tom looking to the singer of R.E.M. what's his. What's his. I'm blanking on. His name is Michael Stipes is his name. Yeah. Tom kind of going to him for advice after kind of panicking about the newfound fame and the magnitude of everything. After okay, Computer, he tells them, you know, go into your hotel room and. And kind of repeat in your mind, I'm not here. This isn't happening. And so that's the mantra of the song. And just to read a quote about the song, he said, Tom said this quote. The song is about the whole period of that time after ok, Computer was happening. We did the Glastonbury Festival and this thing in Ireland. Something snapped in me. I just said, that's it. I can't take it anymore. And more than a year later, we were still on the road, like, so he's already panicking. And, like, he has. I forgot exactly how many shows they played in two years. It was something over, like, 500 shows in two years, which is just, like, insane.
- [32:28]
B
He's even. He's even been real. He's like, we weren't playing well. Like. Like that was the thing. As they're getting bigger and bigger and bigger, they're like, we're playing like, I don't want to be here.
- [32:39]
A
Yeah. And so he's basically said, I didn't have time to address things. The lyrics came from something Michael Stipe from REM Said to me. I rang him and said, I cannot cope with this. And he said, pull the shutters down and keep saying, I'm not here. This isn't happening. And so what I love about Radiohead, I think they're one of the best, if not the best bands to score the emotional and thematic subject of the song. So the song is about alienation. It's about. It's about disassociation, it's about isolation. And all of that is reflected in the music. And the text is heightened so beautifully and emotionally impactful with. With the score, essentially. And so this song starts with these really haunting strings, and I would say just this is kind of a crystallizing moment in Johnny Greenwood's career as a composer. I think when we think about Johnny Greenwood now, we think about not only the guitarist from Radiohead, but we think about him as a legit composer who composes film score, but also standalone Traditional contemporary classical pieces. And I think you can kind of trace it back to this song. This is the first song he scored. And this. And it opens beautifully and hauntingly with these strings. What's. What's really cool about this? I'm gonna, like, try to. To keep my technical musical nerd to a minimum. But, like, there is a. Essentially a. What's called a half sharp being played, which is a note in between your traditional sharp or flat, which essentially means it's like, just think of it as out of tune. And that's what gives it that distant, eerie quality and that sustains throughout the entire, like, first half of the song. On top of that, you get Tom's more traditional kind of just straightforward guitar strums. And then when the bass comes in, the bass is playing in a counter rhythm to the guitar player, to the acoustic guitar. And so you get this kind of rhythmic dissonance between the guitar, the acoustic guitar and the bass guitar. And you have these haunting strings. And so it's just setting like, each instrument is disassociated from one another in the same way that Tom is singing about feeling disassociated from the experiences around him. And so when he comes in and starts to sing about floating down the river, like, we feel like we're floating. And it's like. It's like technically we kind of are because all the disassociation happening in the music. And so, you know, that's just a small example of just Radiohead being so brilliant at what is the heart of this song, what is the emotional heart of this song? And how do we accentuate it? How do we make it an experience that you kind of. To your. Like, it sounds like you have a personal connection to the song. And I think a lot of that has to do with the way they're not only Thomas, just the lyrics he's singing and the melody and, like, what he's actually singing about. It's also equally important how that. That emotional depth of the music, of the. Of the lyrics is being communicated through the music itself. But before I go to my next kind of moment in the song, I wanted to point out, I'm definitely curious to know what your. Your connection to this. This song is.
- [35:59]
B
Hearing Tom talk about. About this moment in his career reminded me of, like, what the music press was like at this time, where we are at the dawn of the Internet, but we are at the height of music news in terms of MTV, BET, VH1, UK Press. And when you think about how much they add to Tour, how many interviews they had to do. There was one interview there that I was watching where you can see how tense Tom is at just the fact of how many people are asking if the group was going to break up and him being telling the group like, yo, don't talk about that. Like, he's very much like, I don't want to talk about this. And why I really connected with this song is. It reminded me that, like, none of this is normal. That fame is incredible and especially Radiohead. You have to think about it. Tom's feeling like this before the social media age. He's just feeling. He's feeling this way when people still tuned into trl, when people still were just like, I'm watching music videos on my tv, oh, my God, Radiohead is the biggest band of all time. And to know that when he's talking about the mythology of rock music and how much this is what you're supposed to want. You're supposed to want the tours, you're supposed to want the groupies. You're supposed. This is everything you work for. And this talented guy being like, I can't take it, I think is such a human. Is such a human emotion. And to turn it into this type of song where I'm like, now, that's all popular music is now. Now popular music is fame, song, whatever. But this to me is a little less naval gazy and a lot more to your point. They are scoring that feeling of, like, being adrift on a river and in the tsunami and not knowing how to hold on and realizing that the thing that you worked for your whole life isn't actually what it was cracked up to be, is something that is just so universal.
- [38:13]
A
Yeah, just. And before we move on, I just got to point out probably, like, if this were a podcast about the my favorite or the best moment musical moments of the 21st century, I think this part of the song I'm about to play is that. So as I played the intro, things start kind of low and murky. When Tom does come in singing, he's singing in his lower register. And over the course of the this what, six minute song, things just build and build and build and build. And there's just kind of this melancholy that kind of just clouds over the entire song and tell this moment that I'm about to play. So it's going to start with an excerpt where kind of the melancholy aspect of the song really comes to climax. And then we're going to hear a switch to a major chord and it's kind of this, like, bright light that kind of shines through the clouds for a second. And then I'll play that part and then we'll play. I'll. I'll set up the next part of the song because it's so cool what they do. So let's hear this part that I just set up. I'm gonna stop it right there. So that was. Did you feel that, like, things kind of opened up and got brighter there. And so it's kind of setting you up to like, for things to resolve maybe. Maybe finally things resolving a little bit more lighter. And it kind of does. It. It resolved into a minor chord. It's a deceptive cadence, but it still resolves. But chord tonally, it resolves. But then listen, at the moment you feel like things should resolve, listen to what Johnny now does with the string arrangement. He has the string players essentially playing all these glissandos on their strings which give it this like, weird microtonal. Essentially this. The moment we think things are going to resolve, it actually disassociates even more. So listen to that disassociation right now. So. So more tension. At the moment we thought there was going to be resolution, we get actually even more tension. Do you feel that dissociation in the strings?
- [40:50]
B
Yeah. If it was. If it felt like it was blooming, like listening to it is almost like someone wringing a towel even tighter and tighter and tighter. Right. It's at the moment where you thought, oh, we can finally relax.
- [41:04]
A
Yeah. Okay, so then that wasn't. That makes what comes next, like, euphucking for it. So after all this tension, after we think to resolve more tension, that same chord comes back and it. It's even more euphoric, more kind of bright. So let's listen to a little bit more of that tension. And then again, watch how things open up. Some of the best music I've ever heard. It brings me to tears almost every time. Like, getting emotional. Just listen to it right now. Like, oh, it's so beautiful. The ascending strings, it's like, oh, it's so gorgeous. Okay.
- [41:59]
B
No, I love this. Keep going. I don't even. I feel bad because our next category is worst song. And I feel like this is gonna. This is gonna really hurt you.
- [42:07]
A
This is gonna be like a three hour episode if I don't control myself. So let's move on. I'm glad you liked the song. I was. I was slightly fearful you're gonna come in and. On one of my favorite songs of all time. Okay, so worst song what are we doing with this category? It shouldn't exist in this album or Discovery, but if forced to choose, I'm going with in limbo. You want to say any? Much more than just, that's my least favorite song on the album. I still like it. I still think, like, kind of like lemonade plucking any song off of this. Like, I could have picked one of the interludes, but everything has a function. Like, it all flows. It's like, if you take in. In limbo out of this record, it kind of doesn't work as well. So I don't know, like, that's my least favorite song. I don't know if you had a least favorite song, but we don't have to spend time.
- [43:01]
B
I'm gonna be honest. I am gonna do the same thing for Discovery, where I was like. When I was picking, I'm like, I feel like an asshole even, like, putting any song in this. I was just like, no, no, I'm not. I'm gonna say the song. I'm gonna be like, it's my least favorite one. It is not bad because to your point, it's just like, these are. To me, these are two perfect albums where it's just like. It's like pointing to, like, a perfect Renaissance painting and being like, it needs one less. I'm like, all right. No, like, fucking move on. So. All right. Deep cut, though.
- [43:32]
A
Okay. Deep cut. I'm kind of cheating. I'm going idiotech.
- [43:50]
B
This is not a deep cut. Justin, can you tell him? This is not a deep cut at all. This is the best song on the album.
- [43:56]
C
How is this a deep cut, Cole? It is. It is, like, one of the three most famous songs on this record, is it not?
- [44:04]
A
But there's technically no singles on this album, so I felt like I could just pick whatever I wanted.
- [44:08]
B
Oh, so I couldn't pick aerodynamic for deep cut. So you can pick idiot. All right, fuck it. Fine. Fine, fine, fine.
- [44:16]
C
Trina's resting right now, so I can't pull her into this. If an album doesn't have singles. And what is the deep? Is that the only requirement that it's that it is not a single?
- [44:28]
B
This is shameful.
- [44:29]
A
I. I 100% cheated. I'm sorry. It's my favorite album all time. I don't give a fuck. I cheated. This is.
- [44:35]
B
This should have been the best. This should have been the best song. This is a top five song of the 21st century. I love Idiotech so much.
- [44:45]
A
If we get to the head to head and you feel like, it's unfair. I'll pick another deep, more traditional deep cut.
- [44:49]
B
All right, all right. But just go cook.
- [44:51]
A
We have. We have to talk about idiotech. This drum beat is one of the. It's probably my favorite drum beat of all time. I don't know. That might be an. Actually, no. This is my. My favorite. I'm allowed to. To like what I want. This. This drum beat is fucking phenomenal. You must agree, Charles, right?
- [45:08]
B
I sent y' all like the. Like, I was like, I was listening to this. I'm like, I have to text someone. I vibing. And when I tell you. When I was doing research for this, there were days where there's. This was the only thing I listened to. Like, I just would, like, put it on repeat. Do the dishes. Go. I just could not. That is how infectious. This is the type of Radiohead shit that sends me up a wall. I love this song.
- [45:34]
A
Yeah, it's like, we'll put the. Let's put it up on the screen now. But Johnny essentially made these drums from scratch on this, like, crazy analog modular synthesizer. It's like the size of a wall. And it's. You know what's impressive that they got sounds like this like on their first attempt. Essentially, like they weren't experimenting with drum machine. I'm trying to think if they had a drum machine, they might have had some, like, some flourishes on ok computer. But I mean, today is the first time they're really steeping themselves into electronic drums. And to produce drums that sound this good on your first at bat is crazy. Like, these drums are so good. I mean, they. The story behind them is that they try to produce them as if they were being played so loud at a club that the speakers were blowing out. So that's like kind of the distortion that you hear was trying to create that effect. And just the pattern of the drums, it's just like. It's one of like Daft Punk is just one of the best at creating loops that you just literally want to hear forever. And Idiotech's drums, the drum loop of Idiotech, to me is just one that I just never wanted to end. On top of that, you get this to your trivia point. This sample of. And what I love about this song symbolically, is that it kind of contains the history of music in it because they sample one of the very, very, very first electronic pieces of music composed by Paul Lansky in 1973. And it's part of this longer, I think, five or six minute piece we'll play the sample, really primitive early computer music that was made on this early IBM computer that only had one megabyte of storage and that they fed the. The. How they programmed the sounds was like cardboard sheets that they would feed the computer with holes in it. And that's how they would. Like, I don't know how it works, but that's how they would program the sounds that you hear. And the whole piece that Paul Lansky wrote that Radiohead sampled is essentially experimentation on the Tristan chord, which is in music history. When I went to college, we talked about this chord a lot. It's like, again, Richard Wagner is coming out up on, I think, every episode of this music and Richard Wagner of this season. And Richard Wagner is the most important composer of the 20th century. So it's. To me, it's very symbolic that the Tristan chord comes up on kind of that inflection point of the 21st century that is being played on a primitive electronic classical piece that is then sampled and a piece that then would go on to influence the next generation, next century of electronic music. And so I love the symbolism of the sample that we get on top of the drums. And then, of course, Tom's voice is otherworldly. He's singing about. I don't. I'm not quite sure what he's singing about. It's like, about the Ice Age, about protecting the women and children first. It's like there's not really a story, but it's like you get the overwhelming feeling of anxiety and panic and, like, it reminds me of Y2K and the panic around that.
- [49:03]
B
I mean, if I could go my Mr. Like, culture brain part of this. Even if I don't think Tom, like, if I don't think Tom was, like, thinking about this. What I think the lyrics actually capture is the fact that the kids were not okay. Like, Tom was not okay. And like, he's kind of locating something that was happening, I think, in popular culture where it's like, okay. Not Only is the 24 news cycle now a thing thing, it's the only thing. It is warping our brains. Everything about culture. All of the inputs are. And that's what, to me, a lot of this record sounds like. It's so many inputs. It's at. We are finally at the dawn of the Internet. Almost all of information at one point, like, is available to us. And sometimes I think because we're. That's just the world we're living in. We're like, that's normal. I'm like, actually, it's not and to have a song to your point that is, like, bridging the gap between 20th century, 21st century, talking about, like, the ice Age and save the women in children, like, that's deep to me. Even if he. Maybe it was. It's a little bit more abstract when I'm listening to the song. That's what it sounds like to me. It sounds like someone like a canary in the coal mine at the beginning of the 2000s being like, hey, yo, y' all are not ready for what is. You are all about to feel like Thom York very, very soon.
- [50:36]
A
Yeah, exactly. And it's like, again, to their credit, about scoring the theme and the heart of the song. Like, again, you feel the sense of panic and the frenetic energy of the. Of the music itself is accentuating that feeling that he's singing about in the. In the lyrics.
- [50:50]
B
All right, what's the. What's the best moment?
- [50:53]
A
Okay. Best moment. A little bit harder with these records, right? Because we're kind of. It's like, not everything's as documented as it is today. Specifically with Kid A, like, they made it a point not to do any press, not to do any interviews. There's a lot of great lore around the record in terms of, like, they were sending for pre listens of the album to their, like, the record label. They would. They would essentially get all the executives on a bus, and they would play the album from start to finish on the bus, and then they would have to leave the bus. So they weren't distributing, like, the. The record beforehand. I think this is the album where they just also distributed it on cassette tape that was glued into the cassette player so you couldn't. You couldn't fast forward. You have to play it from beginning to end. But in terms of, like, moment, at least for me, the one that I think would at least has some kind of national or global impact, or, like, at least a moment that a lot of people could remember that is documented is the performance of National Anthem on Saturday Night Live, which is one of my favorite pieces of, like, hit. Like, just the.
- [51:57]
B
The open.
- [51:58]
A
I don't know if you watch the whole thing, Charles, but, like, they open on a shot of Johnny, like, hunched over this AM FM radio like some, like, prehistoric alien. And he's, like, twisting the knobs on this AM FM radio that he's sampling in real time. And then he. Like, a couple moments later, he's playing the Owens Martineau, this weird keyboard with the. The slider control. Tom's going crazy, and it's like National Anthem is another great song on.
- [52:23]
B
You know, I was mad that you didn't. This is like my National Anthem is my second favorite song off this record after Idiotech. I was like, when we gonna talk about it?
- [52:32]
A
This is the way. This is how I snuck it in. Because not only is it a great song, but like live, you could see all the parts coming to life. So you see them, they brought on a, you know, six piece horn section that plays all the abstract, like Charles Mingus, like free jazz horns that you hear. And Tom's jumping up and down. That's how he cued. Apparently. That's how he cued them in the studio when he wanted to play. Tom would jump up and down and apparently he jumped so high and so crazily that he broke his ankle recording the National Anthem. But you see a piece of that in the SNL performance, him jumping up and down. And I just love the fact that it's like, okay, again, historically, coming off OK Computer. OK Computer being revolutionary and experimental in its own right. But it still has hits like Karma Police. It still has no surprises. It has all these songs you can really singer, songwriter, like great melodies, great hooks. And then that same band, you know, less than a couple years later, come on this national stage giving out this fucking crazy, outlandish performance. It's just like, it's such a moment to me. I don't know. What'd you feel when you were watching it?
- [53:39]
B
I mean, it was funny where it was like, I knew what you wanted me to watch because you had sent a Reddit link. And I was like, I'll watch it on YouTube. And I could not find it on YouTube. I had to go back to Reddit and great, like, phenomenal performance. Fucking York is like, he is fucking going for it. He's just losing his mind. I was also just like, can you imagine being in the audience being like, yo, what the fuck is happening right now? I thought it. What I love about both bands, Radiohead and Daft Punk is I would argue that their live performances almost beat out the recording in terms of just like understanding what they were going for and capturing that energy. Like, I already love National Anthem as a song, but seeing this performance made me love it 10 times more. It was like, I was like, oh. Because I never watched this performance before. It was amazing. It was so good.
- [54:34]
A
Yeah, that to their credit too, they adapted all these songs live. So great. Like, they. They have a live record after Amnesiac. That's really good. Daft Punk has a great live record. It made Kind of made me miss live records because they adapted all these songs for live performance where all the band would play, so they figured out a way to arrange them.
- [54:50]
B
Yeah.
- [54:51]
A
And so National Anthem is one where it gets so climactic. Even idiotech with the layered drums of, like, Johnny's playing those electronic drums, but then the real drummer comes over them, and it's just like. It's so good. Are we already done with Kid A? I feel like we just. We must have been talking for over an hour. It feels like.
- [55:09]
B
Here's the thing. I wasn't gonna. This was your episode. Because I think a lot of the listeners have also been like, oh, with this exercise, will you guys be able to discuss other genres? And I'm just like, let me let my bo boy cold cook. Because I've never seen you spot. I've seen you talk about Kendrick. I haven't seen you smiling like this, though. Radiohead means something to you.
- [55:32]
A
It really does. I mean, it's actually. It's like. Because as much as I love Kendrick, it came out when I was older, you know, like, this came out at the. My neurons were still, like, adapting, you know? It's like, this is like, you cut me open and like, this is in my blood, man. Like, this album in a way that you can't. Like a tip of a butterfly. As. As brilliant as that is, it just came out. I was too old when it came out. It's just. It just can't affect you in the same way as music when you're in your young 20s, man. It's just like, there's something about it. I was actually going to ask you, before we move on to Daft Punk, do you have an album like, today? Like, what is. You see the excitement. You see how it is in my blood. Like, do you have that record?
- [56:10]
B
It. Discovery is one of them, actually.
- [56:13]
A
Oh, really? Okay.
- [56:14]
B
And Kanye West, College Dropout was one that was like. I remember where I was begging my parents for it. I can remember every. Like, the things that I actually miss is like, I miss liner notes. Like, I had the liner notes to some of these records where I would just, like, open and just like, study it and judge the art. It was that. College Dropout is probably the one. And then when I was a teenager, a little bit older, I think I was like. I want to say College Young Thug was that for me. Young Thug was a rapper where I was just like, I remember hating him. I remember hating you. I was like, what the is this? And then literally, within the course of two or three weeks. I was like, this is the future of music. And if anybody ever tells me different, I will kill them.
- [57:01]
C
Guys, when are we doing the Young Thug last song standing?
- [57:04]
A
Cole, Cole, Cole. That might need to be you and Justin Season. And I'll be the producer on that one.
- [57:12]
B
All right, well, you. You're. I don't want to spoil my cultural exchange later, but are we ready to dip into some Daft Punk?
- [57:19]
A
I'm so excited. Yes. Let's do it. Let's take a quick break. We'll come back. Daft Punk's Discovery.
- [57:26]
B
All right, we are back discussing one of my favorite projects of all time. Daft Punk's sophomore album, discovery. Released on March 12, 2001. The 14 song project was held by Tomas and Guy Manuel, with help from Romanthony, New Jersey native D.J. sneak and Todd Edwards, also a New Jersey native. So for any of y' all out there, New Jersey, my home state, we fucking doing this shit. Discovery spawned six singles, One More Time, Aerodynamic, Digital Love, Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger, Face to Face, and Something About Us. The album, surprisingly, was Only nominated for two awards at the 44th annual Gramm Best Dance Recording for One More Time and Best Pop Instrumental Performance for Short Circuit. And the project has sold 2.8 million copies globally. And what I can say about this record is I remember where I was as a kid when I not only heard One More Time, but I saw One More Time. Because if you. If people don't remember, the video is based on this anime, Interstellar 5555. And when I was a kid, kid, we were on vacation at a mall. And I. I want to say, do you remember Sam Goodies? Cole?
- [58:47]
A
Yep. Yeah.
- [58:48]
B
I want to say I was walking by Sam Goody and the One More Time video was playing. So I saw this anime of blue people and I'm hearing the auto tune track or singing. And as a kid, I'm. I'm still very young. I was born in 1992. This album comes out in 2001. So what would that make me? Nine. I was nine. And I was like, wait, music videos can just be anime and it could be blue people. The person singing their voice is allowed to sound like this for the entire. Like it was. That sounds so stupid to like a 2025. Like our sensibilities, because this is all music is now. But as a kid, music for so long to me is like a very linear thing. Like, you brought up Bob Dylan with the electric guitar. People don't know an electric guitar is something that you can Use and manipulate and can be the foundation of a genre until somebody fucking does it. And the same thing, whether we're talking about sampling or auto tune or vocoder. And this record, to me, when I think about the music I love, whether it's 800 waits in Heartbreak future's monster, a bunch of pop music, just this, to me, is the foundation of that, of knowing that you can get so weird and you can use an instrument in the wrong way. And both members of Daft Punk talk about that a lot. Making this record where there was this wave of critical backlash, where critics were like, why are you using shit like this? This is not how music is supposed to sound. But as a kid, what they even said about this record, if I can pull it up, they said to. Tomas said to remix mag. This album has a lot to do with our childhood and the memories of the state we were in at that stage of our life. It's about our personal relationship to that time. It's less of a tribute to the music from 1975 to 1985 as an era, and more about focusing on the time when we were 0 to 10 years old. When you're a child, you don't judge or analyze music. You just like it because you like it. And when I read that like I like, I almost started tearing up because that was how this music. One More Time, Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger, Digital Love. That's what it felt like. As a kid, I had no reference for Chicago House, for. For romance, for Romanthony, for anything that I was hearing. But the nostalgia of it, the. The kid, like, wonder of it, the chops, it just connected me with me in such a way. And it. It opened up just so much of my understanding. What's your relationship with Discovery like?
- [61:38]
A
Yeah, I admittedly came onto Discovery and Daft Punk a little late. Of course, I knew One More Time and around the World, and I'd seen the music videos and stuff, but it wasn't that time, wasn't seeking it out. So I want to. I feel like, I mean, so much going back to the. Studying this album and the history behind it. It was kind of a slow burn. Like they're still releasing singles, like, a few years after it comes out. It feels like it got bigger and bigger and bigger over the. Over the course of a couple years. I feel like I don't remember it coming out aside from One More Time, just kind of being everywhere. But once I went down the rabbit hole, oh, man. I mean, it was this. It was Radiohead, it was then that. That just was great about both of these artists. Kind of putting electronic music the forefront for people like me back then, that didn't really have a gateway into it. It did give you that starting point and through then. Then you can start digging a little deeper into French House. Then you can start digging a little deeper into the Warp Records catalog and all those artists, you know, and so it was definitely a gateway into electronic music. And then from there, I mean, in the same way Radiohead influenced, you know, my band at the time, Daft Punk, I would say. I don't know, I can't really depict Discovery might be the most influential to me personally, but it was just more about Daft Punk. Like, just. Just them, their sound, their approach. And. And I mean, I. I could pull up songs that sound exactly like Daft Punk that I made, you know, in my early 20s, because I was just listening to it so much. And I was studying how they were putting these songs together because, like, musically they're so talented at one. Like, they're kind of Kanye in the way that, like, they just have a fucking great ear for samples. Like, it's just. They.
- [63:25]
B
Not just the samples, how they chop the samples, how they will chop it three, four times and then stitch it back together. And when you see it done, like, there's a lot of, like, we'll, like, I'm sure you'll be showing us your favorites, but guys, I'm telling you, just go on YouTube, type in daft Punk samples, and you will literally see some of the greatest chopping you've ever seen in recorded music.
- [63:48]
A
And it's like. And to their credit, though, too, it's like one they. They recognize catchy, catchy samples. And this is, I think, what contrasts them with electronic music at the time, which was, you know, industrial house music. It can get very, like, cold and kind of gritty and like hypnotic and it, like, I love that stuff. But Daft Punk were so good at, especially with this record, purposefully grabbing samples that were like, catchy, melodic, harmonically rich and warm and maintaining that warmth with the chops in the same way Kanye does. Maintains the warmth of the soul sample, recontextualizes it with a hip hop beat. We're doing the same thing, taking disco samples, recontextualizing it with electronic drums. Yeah, but the warmth and the. Just that feeling that you get, the addictive feeling that you. You just want to hear it. You want to hear one more time. You don't want it to stop, you know, and these, they just create these loops that are, like, hooks, you know, I was so obsessed with, like, how exactly they did that. How do they stack all these sounds together without it sounding chaotic? Which, again, electronic music, it's so easy to make chaos out of loops and layers and blips and effects, and it's like they maintain a purity, a crystallized, like, singular sound that is just like. And it's mixed really well, so it's like, not even though, like, a song like Face to face has, like, 70 samples, it's like, it still feels like a pop record, which is, like, incredibly hard. We take it for granted. But the. The line that they're threading with this record, which is being technically brilliant virtuosos of electronic instruments and synths and. And programming, and a lot of times that can get ugly just like, a guitar solo. Like, we don't want to hear, like, a great guitarist masturbating just to, you know, to get himself off. It's like, it's got to be musical still. And to their credit, they're masters at technical brilliance mixed with pop sensibilities, keeping everything accessible. Like, this record is just like. Again, it's kind of like Kid A in terms of just, like, the music learned. Like, me or even Kevin. I know Kevin really loves this record. It gives us so much to get our music nerd stuff off. But at the same time, my mom likes One more Time, you know, we can put on Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger. That becomes a number one hit with Kanye's sample, and that's for good reason, because, like, they. That essentially is a hook that Kanye then recontextualized. So it's like. I don't know. It's just like. They're just so good at balancing that line, which I think is incredibly hard to do.
- [66:22]
B
And I think it's funny, when I was listening to Kid A, you're like, Kid A is almost Radiohead, surrendering to the fact that they don't need to rely so heavily on traditional song structure and to me, Discovery, an electronic group finding the love in song structure. Because to me, like, this is a pop record. To me, this is. And when I mean a pop record where it's like. It's not just when the guitar solos on Digital Love or Aerodynamic come in. They're not just masturbating to just show you they can shred on the guitar. It feels like it is t. It is taking you on a journey. It is there for a reason. Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger is such a. A perfect pop artifact. And that's what I love of like the jump from homework, which is an incredible record, to discovery is like them being like, all right, we're actually locking in and showing you that, like, electronic is not just the future, it's gonna be the present. But do you have some. Do you have some questions for me? Some album. Album trivia?
- [67:26]
A
I do. I have a few questions. I had some backups in case you went crazy hard on me. So I'm gonna. Since you throw me a softball. We should. We should also remind listeners that this is building up to the season finale. So whoever has the most points, the accumulated points over the course of the season, gets a mystery prize that we haven't got any. Much, much hints on.
- [67:46]
B
Justin has bought them. He told me. He told me off, Mike. He's bought them already.
- [67:49]
C
I have received them. I told Charles I'm not sure if they're good, but they are very funny to me.
- [67:55]
B
Are they cursed? How cursed are they?
- [67:57]
C
I think that they are. Are both very cursed in very specific ways.
- [68:03]
B
I'm so excited for this.
- [68:05]
A
Yeah. Okay.
- [68:07]
B
All right, all right.
- [68:07]
A
So question number one. You're gonna think it's easy, but then it gets a little twist. Question 1. Daft Punk claims they transformed into robots after a virus called the9999 bug attacked their hardware. Quote, we did not choose to become robots. There was an incident in our studio. We were working on our sampler, Sampler. And exactly 9:09am On September 9, 1999, it exploded. When we regained consciousness, we discovered that we had become robots. I love this. Like this. And the story changes. Like, there's like a few interviews that they mentioned this story and it's always a little bit different, which I. It's. I love it. In reality, the robot helmets were created by a special effects expert named Tony Gardner. Daft Punk were introduced to Gardner through a now famous film director. Do you know the famous film director who introduced Tony Gardner, the special effects person to Daft Punk to create the helmets?
- [69:02]
B
This is good. This is a good fucking question.
- [69:06]
A
For a half point reduction, I'll give you a hint.
- [69:09]
B
No, because I think I want to say it's Gondry. No.
- [69:14]
A
You're so close.
- [69:15]
B
Oh, fuck. It's not.
- [69:17]
A
It's not. It's. You're so close.
- [69:19]
B
It's.
- [69:20]
A
What's one degree, one degree away from, From Gondry. Not French American.
- [69:28]
B
Fuck. This is a really good question.
- [69:30]
C
When Charles is going to give up, can I guess?
- [69:33]
A
Do you want the hint?
- [69:34]
B
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
- [69:35]
C
No, I don't want the hint.
- [69:35]
A
Oh, no.
- [69:36]
B
No.
- [69:36]
A
Google search.
- [69:37]
B
No, no, no, I'm not. Google Search.
- [69:38]
C
Laptop open right over him.
- [69:40]
B
What is that? No, no, no, no. Spike Jones.
- [69:43]
A
Yes. But you just.
- [69:45]
B
I literally. Because I literally typed in. And we can. I can show you the history. I typed in her, but I was just like. The name was not there, and I had to type in the first. I was like her. It was Spike Jonze. If it wasn't Gonja, it was Spike Jones.
- [69:59]
C
Okay, well, wait, wait, wait, wait. You were like, oh, I definitely know this one. But you had to type in her to get the name.
- [70:09]
B
Justin, I have been in fucking San Diego talking about comic books and then in the fucking Poconos playing with monkeys and fucking pigs. My mind is like her was the first movie I remember. Relax, Cole.
- [70:25]
C
Do you feel okay with this?
- [70:27]
A
I'll give him the point. Hell, should it be a half? Should it be a half point? I. Look, you're the judge.
- [70:34]
C
I am. I'm kind of considering playground rules on this. You call a file if you want to fall. So do you want that? You want to take half point away.
- [70:42]
A
From him for that? No, it's fine.
- [70:45]
C
It's fine.
- [70:45]
B
Okay. Hell, yeah.
- [70:46]
A
So question number two for you is. And it's anime related. In Discovery's companion anime film, Interstella 5555, an alien band is kidnapped from their planet and brought to Earth. Their minds are erased and they are programmed to be an American band that immediately becomes extremely popular. What is the name of this band in the film Crescendos. Nice job. Two for two.
- [71:10]
B
Come on, give me. I don't even need a point on the next one. Just give me the last one. Come on, bro. I love Daft Punk.
- [71:19]
A
All right. Okay. I think you're still in the lead by a hair in our. In the tally overall season tally. Great job, though. Two for two.
- [71:27]
B
All right, we ready to get into the categories?
- [71:29]
A
I'm so ready to. I'm so curious to know what you picked and see if it overlaps with my picks, because what's the best song on this? It's not.
- [71:37]
B
That song is actually. I have the one that I. I think I'm gonna go with, but I might go to you and. And Justin if I have to change my mind. Fine. All right.
- [71:45]
A
Okay.
- [71:45]
B
So biggest song was Easy lead single from Discovery, One More Time. The song features Romanthony and a sample of the 1979 song More Spell on youn by. By Eddie Jones. Daft Punk considered this a bridge from their previous album, Homework. They said Homework was A way to say to the rock kids that electronic music is cool, while Discovery was the opposite. It was a way of saying to the electronic kids, rock is cool. Which I think is like, once you kind of unlock that, you're just like, oh, the guitar solos make sense. The anime makes sense. And to their credit, like, Daft Punk had rock bonafides. Like, these are guys who can play their instruments. They know them very fucking well. And one more time, to me is something that. Before this. This episode, I took it for granted. And I don't.
- [72:48]
A
Exact same feeling. Exact same feeling continue.
- [72:51]
B
Because I. Because I heard it so much as a child. And then I don't know if you had this experience with Go, like, listening to Kid A, where I'm like, okay, let me do. The thing that I try to do is, like, take away everything and just try to listen to this. Like you were an alien who just came here. And. And it reminded me of when I heard it as a child, where the vocals on this are so lush and it's like liquid. And it is. It reminded me of hearing vocals tampered with in this way. Because Tomas said to DJ Chimes like people were coming at. At them. I had forgotten, like, this had kind of gotten mixed reviews in terms of the whole album. And he said, quote, criticize the. Of criticizing the vocoder is like asking bands in the 60s, why do you use an electric guitar? It's just a tool. The healthy thing is that people either loved it or hated it. At least people were not neutral. And to my kid brain, I thought that this was the coolest thing that I. I had ever heard. And I think, once again, we take for granted that at this point in the Daft Punk legend, this is only their second project. They're still new to the Helmets. To your point. There's a lot of their origin story that they're, like, tweaking into the moment. And they're still new enough as a band where sometimes they're acting like they're the robots in interviews, and other times they're just. They're just themselves. They're just Omaz and. And whatchamacalli guy. But there was something about this song, kind of like hearing it that it's so beautiful. The lyrics are so simple. And in the same way that Kid A puts you in a trance one more, one more time, it just puts you in a trance where it's undeniable and you're almost like, okay, I'm transported back into this nostalgic feeling. I'm gonna Go on this intergalactic ride with these weird fucking robots and you surrender to it. And One More Time is actually a song where I write to this album a lot like I put on this album when just need to zone out. Usually I skip One More time because I just heard it too much. And One More Time was the song off this project where this last. The last two or three weeks where I was like, oh, this was always genius. This was always a genius record. What is it about One More Time that you kind of, like, fell in love with again, Cole?
- [75:23]
A
Yeah, it was the same exact experience. You know, it's just one of those songs that, yeah, you do take it for granted. You are kind of sick of hearing it. But I will say even. And even before this exercise, the true mark of this song is, like, when you hear it out. When you hear it, like, at a club or, you know, at a. It always works. It always works. I remember the dance club I used to go to in the early 2000s around this time. The DJ that we'd always go see, he would always close with this song every single time. We knew it was coming and it worked.
- [75:54]
B
And, yeah, I was gonna ask, was there ever a time where it didn't work? Or every single time people like. Like, hell, yeah. Still fucking rips.
- [76:00]
A
Yeah, it's. I mean, Justin, was this in your DJ repertoire? Was this. Is this something you went to? Or was it too obvious by then?
- [76:07]
C
What you have to consider is in the 2007, 2008, and this is like post the pyramid performance, which I think will probably come up right. Like, Daft Punk has this rebirth or this rediscovery period that ends up kicking off the whole, like, hipster house movement. And, like, this song just stays in rotation. Daft Punk stays in rotation. And then Daft Punk gets even bigger in, like, 2013 with, like, more normie crowds with, you know, random access memories and everything on that Pharrell song and everything. So this song, while it might have gotten tired to DJs at a certain point, just kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger with different kinds of audiences for basically my entire DJ career. I no longer dj. I don't know if I. Maybe if I go put it on. If you put me in front of turntables and I have to play it in the club right now, maybe they just start throwing cans of tomatoes at me. I don't know how it works. But up until at least, like, 2015, 2016, when I stepped out of the game, the song will still go off.
- [77:16]
A
Yeah.
- [77:17]
B
All Right.
- [77:17]
A
Do you want me to. Do you want me to break down the sample really quick? Because this was another thing that, like, it's. It's being broken down a lot. It won't. Won't take that long. But I think for anyone that hasn't heard the chops, it does. It gives you. It's a really good piece of evidence of just how one, like, their ear for just specific chords and just, like, simple but, like, technically brilliant. So let me just. I'll play.
- [77:39]
B
I will say this. If you weren't gonna play it, I was like, yo, can we go in and post and play it? When I say what it samples, I'm ready. Because literally, I smoke a lot of weed. I was smoking weed and just watching Daft Punk sample videos where, like, the DJs would just, like. I was just, like, watching the chops, and I was mesmerized. Play it for the people. It's fucking genius.
- [78:00]
A
Yeah. I will say, like, this whole exercise has got me thinking, like, is Daft Punk the next season of Dissect? Like, next season of Last Song Standing would be so fun. Okay. Okay. So like you said, original sample source is more Spell on youn by Eddie Jones, 1979. What's interesting about this album, I look through basically every sample that's on here, and it's like, with just like, one or two exceptions, it is in. Every single sample is from 1975 to 1985. Like, they are really true to that.
- [78:31]
B
Concept of the nostalgia of when they were kids. This is what we were. We were listening to. And I don't know if they were, like, around. I read some where it's like, a lot of their collaborators were, like, one of their collaborators. I forget who, like, actually, like, posted. After a bunch of years, I found, like, the disc, the floppy with all my samples. But I was reading Daft Punk was saying that they played, they replayed a lot of the samples, and I was just like, oh, interesting. So I'm just like, when I have more time, I want to do more research on, like, what was an actual. Just sample sample. And what did they actually, like, just replay and then sample what they replayed?
- [79:12]
A
Yeah, it's hard to tell. And, you know, like, you go on, like, who sampled? And they'll give you the actual samples. But then there's so many little blips and, like, glitches that could be samples or could be them recreating samples. Like, it's so unclear. That's part of the, like. The myth of this album is, like, is the guitar is the guitar solo, quote unquote, on Digital Love. A guitar or a synth? Like, it's not. It's not actually clear. I think it's a synth, but I think, like, it sounds so much like a guitar that you actually, there's debate on Reddit if it's a guitar or not. And there's. There's just so much lore around the album, partly because they didn't explain it much. They didn't do much interviews. And so there is like, it's so technically brilliant that people.
- [79:50]
B
Years for people to find all of the samples on Face to Face. Like, I. That was going to. Spoiler alert was going to be like my best deep cut, but it can't because it was a single. But like, yeah, there were like years where people, like, were debating what. Where all of the samples were.
- [80:04]
A
Yeah.
- [80:05]
B
All right, so. All right, let's play this.
- [80:07]
A
Yeah. Yeah. All right, so here's the original. The original. I'll just play it straight as it is on the vinyl. Okay, so good. So good on its own, right? But. And it's like this really high. It's climbing, it's climbing. And so they just take three chords from that ascending chord sequence. Here's the three chords and they pitch them down. So here's the first chord, okay, so just those three. Exactly how they just kind of cut in and out is exactly how they're. They're sampled. And so it's like, again, this is like, these are tools now. What do you do? What do you do with the chops? Like, this is where the magic happens, right? It's not only identifying those three chords. Anyone can do that. How do you put them together? How do you rearrange them? And here's how they do that. So they essentially take the second chord that they sample and they play that as the tonic. They play that as the first chord. And it's this two chord sequence that goes back and forth that has a really brilliant detail that I'm going to point out after I play the whole chord sequence. It's us, like, so. Because it's like. Yeah, that was the loop. I played the loop and then it transitions into the actual song and you hear. You hear the filtering they put on it and then of course, the drum beat that they put behind it. But I did want to point out, like one detail because these are the kind of details that separate Daft Punk from everyone else in terms of, like, sampling, understanding what makes a good sample, what makes a good loop is that the way that they sample the second chord in this loop here. So that chord, that second chord that just comes in for. For that, that one measure, that one beat, they. It's not played on the downbeat. They sample a little bit before the chord hit. So that the chord hit happens on the upbeat. And so it's essentially just this little moment of syncopation. Let me play you the. The. The chord sequence without that little moment of syncopation on that second chord. And you'll just. It'll. It'll instantly change how the loop feels. Do you. Can you hear the difference there?
- [82:59]
B
Yeah.
- [83:00]
A
On that, that last chord, if it's played just on the downbeat, it's not as. It's not as rhythmic. It doesn't give you that kind of hypnotic, sensible, that loop. And then let me just play it back to back with the syncopation of that last chord. It's just that one little detail, that one little detail that changes the. The entire kind of feeling of the entire group. You hear the difference of that?
- [83:30]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [83:31]
A
It's just genius Call.
- [83:32]
B
You're a genius.
- [83:33]
A
Well, that Daft Punk's a genius. Like that. It's just like. That's. Again, it's just like. Like there's millions of those little. Those little choices that they make that this is what separates Daft Punk from everyone else. This is why they're the best.
- [83:46]
C
Cole, I don't want to hijack this, but could you play that other one again?
- [83:51]
A
The non syncopated one?
- [83:53]
C
Yeah, the one they didn't do.
- [83:56]
A
Yeah.
- [84:05]
C
No, no.
- [84:06]
B
It sounds so wrong.
- [84:07]
C
It sounds so wrong.
- [84:09]
B
It's like feeling of just like a deflated balloon almost. When you hear the other version, where I'm just like, oh, they're. That's. That's genius work.
- [84:19]
A
Let me just tell you. 99 out of 100 producers do the non syncopated version. Like, because that's where the. Like when you're getting chops, like you look for the start of a chord hit, because that's like. It keeps you on beat in the same way that. That first chord, that's what gives you the groove is because it's hitting the downbeat and that. And even if you're doing automated chops, like, if you're asking the sampler to, like, identify the beats, it's always, usually going to always give you the start of the beat. Never halfway, you know? Never halfway. So again, it's just like that. Just. Just literally like a half measure, little tweak, half beat tweak. And it's like. It Makes the loop like, it makes the loop.
- [85:02]
B
All right, guys, now we have to talk about best song. And this is where I might need some help, okay? Because I could make the argument that Discovery has, like, the best first five songs run of almost any album. Like, One More Time. Aerodynamic, Digital Love, Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger. Chris Chandolls is insane. It is, like, perfect. Like, think about that. Seemed to me in the category of, like, when you look at Thriller, like, Thriller is. Want to be starting something. Baby be Mine, the girl is Mine, Thriller is like. And then you have beat it. It's just. You're like, oh, they did. So me having to pick my. It was gonna be between. Digital Love was in the running. Digital Love, like, at any given time, I think is my favorite song off this album.
- [86:03]
A
Okay.
- [86:03]
B
Aerodynamic or Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger.
- [86:09]
A
See, my. It might be your deep cut, but, like, my best song out of this exercise was Face to Face.
- [86:15]
B
I couldn't. I wanted to pick Face to Face in deep cut, but I can't because it is not a deep cut.
- [86:22]
A
It's so good, though. We have to talk about it.
- [86:24]
B
We have to. We're gonna talk about Face to Face.
- [86:26]
A
Yeah. Now, Justin, do you have a clear.
- [86:30]
B
Do you have a clear best song? My heart wants to say Digital Love, but I don't want to go with my heart because I want to win this exercise.
- [86:42]
C
It's not. Yeah. I mean, look, I have to say that every time I put on this record and another song comes on, I think that the next song is maybe the best song I've ever heard.
- [86:55]
A
Yeah.
- [86:56]
C
And then that's it. The next song is maybe the best song I've ever heard. Like, Something About Us is not going to get picked in this category, but when Something About Us is on, like, you're thinking that might be one of the best songs you could ever possibly listen to.
- [87:13]
B
I. Before I pick, I'm gonna, like. I want to talk to Cole about something because can we decide what guitar solo do you like more? Aerodynamic or Digital Love? Because I'm an aerodynamic boy, but Digital Love's guitar solo, they're both so fucking good.
- [87:35]
A
What I love about Digital, Digital Love, like, to me, the moment I picked out in how to Disappear Completely the strings and all that, like, Digital Love, guitar, synth, solo, whatever you want to call it, is just as euphoric. That is the best moment on the entire album to me, by a mile. That is transcendent in a way that is so rare to reach in pop music. And it's unexpected because you're not Ever expecting a guitar. Guitar in quotes, solo and not that good on a Daft Punk record. It's like. It. It functions like a legit guitar solo, even though it's, like, on a song that shouldn't really have a guitar solo. It's kind of like the Kanye Dell in a new dress where it's like, only Daft Punk would think to put a synth guitar solo on this kind of a ballad and just transcend it, take it to a whole nother dimension, like SpongeBob transcendent me, like, just. It's. I mean, in my heart. Digital Love. Just that moment alone edges it out over anything else. Although I will say, if you're trying to debate between that or Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger, the Talk Box solo, I can. I can just play it for you. The Talk Box solo on Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger is phenomenal.
- [88:48]
B
All right, before we talk about that, let's play a little bit of the guitar solo from Digital. Can you play that for us really, really quick? Because I just need to hear. Great.
- [88:56]
A
I'm going to learn this. I. I didn't have enough time to learn it, but I'm. I'm definitely learning this solo. It's so good. Let me pick it out real quick. Oh, there is this.
- [89:24]
B
So can you play a little bit of aerodynamic? I'm. I'm so stuck between these three.
- [89:39]
A
Those parts do not make sense together.
- [89:41]
B
They don't.
- [89:42]
A
They don't make. I mean, it's like a live DJ mix on the actual song, and it's like. It's perfect. Like, it's so perfect.
- [89:50]
B
All right. They are perfect. I'm so sorry, guys. I'm not gonna. Like, in my heart, I think if I had, like, gun to my head, it would probably be Digital Love. Digital Love actually makes me cry sometimes. In terms of just, like, what I love in music in my heart, I would probably pick Digital love, I think, just for the culture. One more Time and Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger are two sides of the same coin. In terms of, like, I think because of the Kanye song, I think because of the resurgence that. The resurgence that Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger has, we take it for granted. But in terms of just, like, I can, like, listen to Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger and be like, all right, 90% of pop music sounds like this. We take it for granted. There's a reason why Kanye sampled it. I think the sample that this is based on 1979's Cola Bottle Baby by Edwin Birdsong. Do you have it for, like, if people hear the sample of this, I'm Just like. Oh. When you were talking about the warmth of the samples that they were picking in terms of, like, this genre of. I believe Tomas was talking about. What was interesting about this record is, like, they're taking samples from when disco was not at its height anymore, when it was almost on its way out, and they were in love with Chicago house and talking about, like, going back to that feeling of when they didn't. Like, these creators and these house producers did not have a lot to work with and the innovation that comes through that. And honestly, we could put this in post if we could play a little bit of Cola Bottle baby, just to show you just, like, how genius these guys are making this type of.
- [91:43]
A
Yeah, it's interesting because the loop is pretty much verbatim. It's. Except for speeding it up a little bit, but then with how they develop the song with the low quarter, how it.
- [91:53]
B
Like, not Crushette, but, like, how they develop it in terms of just like. Then they add the Talk box. Then they like the Talk Box solo. Incredible. The.
- [92:03]
A
Let me. Can we. I got it queued up. You want to hear it?
- [92:05]
B
I want to hear. Play it.
- [92:06]
A
Okay.
- [92:24]
B
And then the breakdown.
- [92:28]
A
That's so good.
- [92:29]
B
Because once again. Because I feel like the Kanye Stronger is so at the forefront of my mind sometimes. Once again, I skip past Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger that I forget about the Talk Box solo. I forget about the breakdown. I forget about how they are using a very. Just a simple loop. And almost like for other producers, they would probably be like, this is too many elements. This is very, like the. Once you take the loop, once you take the. The lyrics and the performance, and then you take the process. Vocals. And then you're breaking it down and rebuilding it back up. This is a very complex song, but it works in it. When it hits your ears, it's so simple. I wrote down in my notes, I'm like, something about the Talk Box cuts through your ears like butter. It's, like, so smooth. I love Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger. I'm gonna pick it for best song. Even though I want to pick Digital.
- [93:27]
A
Love.
- [93:40]
B
I'm going to. To Super Super Skate by worst song. Like, I had it written down. Like, this is like choosing one of. Like, this is like killing off one of my kids. I think I'm gonna go with Night Vision. And not because Night Vision is bad. It's just more so like a transition record to me. And it's just coming off the high of. Of those first couple songs. It is not a bad song. Do not attack me if you Love Night Vision.
- [94:17]
A
It is. Okay. It is the perfect. I get why you're picking it because it's kind of a. You're just. It's. It's a technicality, essentially. But I don't think the sequence of Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger, Crescendo Doll, Crescendo Dolls, which is fucking phenomenal. I want to point something out about that song when we get to Deep Cut. That song is so high energy and essentially, like, you need Night Vision in the sequence of the album. You, like, absolutely need it. In the same way the interludes on. On Kid A unique. Like, after National Anthem, after. You know, there's songs on the album where you actually need a breather. You need those interludes. If this is a world they're creating. And the sequencing is just as important as the individual song to the experience of the record. They can't take Night Vision out of.
- [95:03]
B
The record into Superheroes without the gap of Night Vision. Because, like, both of those are very intense. Not intense, but they are, like, very high octane. Like, oh, my God, like, you feel the adrenaline. Night Vision does give you a very, very, like, clean segue. And that is. Before I get to my best deep cut, let's use this time to, like, talk about what. What could it make it? The first Arrow dynamic we already talked about. That is the second song. It's a single. I couldn't choose. Now, Face to face is the 13th song, but it is also a single. And I think if we can even have two or three minutes to talk about Face to Face as a song. Like, this is actually what I wanted to pick in Deep Cut, but I just. According to our rules, even though you cheated with ediotech, I can't pick Face to Face. But this was actually gonna be my.
- [95:59]
A
You could pick it. I bent the rules, if you want.
- [96:02]
B
Face to Fucking Face is so good. The amount I think they're. How many samples are on this song.
- [96:22]
A
Like, I kept reading different stories. It's what. It's one. It's one of the. I actually don't want to name a number because it could be anywhere from, like, 40 to 70. From what?
- [96:30]
B
I. I couldn't get a clear number, but there's a video online where it's just like, they. They play each sample, and it's like, Cole, if we want to play just, like, a few of them and then, like, play the song. It is a level of where, if. If Radiohead was searching and learning how to reform, quote, unquote, a rock song with all these new instruments. Face To Face to Me is just like a perfect example of how electronic musicians and producers and DJs think about music differently and how they can. Can use chopping and use sampling and reconstitute something into one of. I think Face to Face is one of the greatest songs and greatest accomplishments of the 21st century. I cannot gush about this song enough. Why do you love it so much, Cole?
- [97:24]
A
It's like maybe the. It's maybe the one song that is. Shows that. That balance that I'm talking about with them, which is like, this is a technical masterpiece. It is a masterwork of, if you want to know, like, virtuosic. What does it mean to be a virtuoso of electronic music, which is a little more abstract than, like, you know, guitar? You can watch a player just shred and you get it. It's like I see the. The visual of, like, your fingers moving really fast. What is the equivalent of that in electronic music? Well, it's this song because the. The amount of. I'll dissect a little bit of the chops that they do, but it's like. Like there is the. Again, the ear for sampling, the technical ability to know how to chop it, how to affect it correctly, and then to assemble, let's say 40 to 70. Let's say 40. Let's just say 40. 40 different sample clips into something into a mosaic that makes sense, that still registers as a pop song. That is one of the hardest things you can do in music is like that much technical mumbo jumbo. Like, like, again, master masturbatory stuff doesn't always make the most palatable music that you want to hear. Yet this song does both. Brilliant.
- [98:35]
B
You know, who's a producer who does something similar? Do you remember when Girl Talk, like, first started popping where. I actually like Girl Talk as a producer, like a very talented producer. But to your point, a lot of his early, early music does, to me, doesn't achieve what Face to Face does, where it's like a lot like almost. It was showing you. It was a showy version of this, of picking like 20, 30, 40 fucking songs. And you can tell where Face to Face to me is like, if you're not concentrating, it. It just like you sometimes won't even notice that they've introduced another sample into it.
- [99:12]
A
Right? Yeah. Okay, so one. And what I love about this song too, is that Todd Edwards is a co producer on the song, and Todd Edwards is kind of the architect of this style. Let me just play you a quick, quick clip of a Todd Edwards song from 1996. So this is, you know, predates discovery by five years or so. And you'll hear the same kind of like small sample chops assembled into like a melody essentially. So let me just play a small clip of that. Right. So you hear the little, the really small half a second chops and then a second assembled into a mosaic. Not quite as catchy, but you could still see the foundation of what they end up doing on Face to Face. They bring in Todd Edwards for this song and they do a similar thing.
- [100:05]
B
And I think they tried to get him on homework, didn't they? Yeah, like earlier they were trying to collaborate with them and it wasn't until this record where they, and I think Romanthony might have been this a similar thing where it was like they weren't established enough yet. And by the second record they are literally bringing in the people that they had like name dropped on teachers to like come help them. Them with this transformational project.
- [100:28]
A
Yeah. So let me just run through. I, I picked just a few samples and I, I didn't do these chops myself. You know, I'll, I'll link the video that I shared to you that goes through every single chop on the, on the song. But the, the foundation, the, the really traditional sample is the, the electric, electric light orchestra sample that. Let me just play it right here. So that little, they take that moment here. So let's play that here. So that's the like the traditional kind of foundation. It's a longer sample, it's rhythmic. You can kind of define the beats there. And so that becomes the foundation. But then this is where they start to get crazy. So I have two examples. But then we're going to just use our imagination in terms of like they did what I'm about to do with these two sample examples like 40 different times. So here is a sample of Carrie Lewis Sometimes Love goes wrong from 1982. Okay, so from this sample, here's what they took from it. That's it. Let me play it one more time. That's all. Same, same thing with this next one. So Rocky Robbins, 1981. Nothing like love. Okay, here's what they sample from it. That's all. And so use your imagination. Times this by 20, 40 times. All these little bloop, boop, boop, become assembled into a mosaic that ends up sounding like this. It's like when you're listening to that, you don't register.
- [102:31]
B
No.
- [102:31]
A
40 samples, 40 different songs all spliced together. It's just a great Groove. And then when you dissect it, it's like, Jesus. Like, how did they. How did they do this? It's like a master. Master work, work. And so. But here's a really interesting theory I need to just lay out for you quickly that I don't know if I buy, and I want your opinion on. So are you aware that this. The vocal samples for that main loop we just heard actually might say something that actually might have lyrics in them?
- [102:58]
B
Yes.
- [102:59]
A
Oh, you have heard this?
- [103:00]
B
I have. No, I haven't heard this theory. But, like, when I listen to it, it's. I'd never been able to locate what they're saying. I've never looked up the lyrics. I'm just like, is it a funk song? But it's something like. It's the love on. Or something like that. Like. Like.
- [103:17]
A
Yeah. Okay, so you're picking up on the melody.
- [103:18]
B
Yes.
- [103:19]
A
So let me. I'm gonna isolate each of the. The vocal chops, and then we're gonna. I'm gonna tell you what I think they say, what the theory is, what they say, and then when you hear it in context in the actual song. Once I heard the lyrics like that are supposed to be implied. I can't unhear it now. And it's really fucking cool. So. Okay, so here's the first vocal chop. Comes from an Alan Parsons song from the 70s. So just that little chunk is the first vocal chop. Here's the second one from another Alan Parsons song from the 70s. So here's what he grabs from that. That. So that's the one you're identifying. That's the most recognizable one. So those two chops together, when you combine them, how they hear in the song sound like this. So that's one lyric. It doesn't sound like a lyric yet, but stay with me here. Next. Next sample chops, the most recognizable one. So here is a Kenny Loggin song. Shout Out Kenny Loggins from 1971. House of Pooh Corner. Okay, here comes the chop from that. And a second chop. Okay. Does that sound like anything to you yet?
- [104:47]
B
No. Okay, not yet.
- [104:50]
A
Here's the last. The last chop. Electric light Orchestra. Again, 1971. Okay, here's the chop that comes from that. Okay, it doesn't sound like lyrics yet, right?
- [105:07]
B
Not yet.
- [105:08]
A
Okay, here's the All. Here's all the vocal chops lined up together. Sound like lyrics yet?
- [105:20]
B
Starting to. I can't parse what it is, but it's. Yes.
- [105:25]
A
Okay, so the theory is that it's the. The what is being Implied, obviously, this would be Daft Punk kind of mutating these samples that don't say these words in a way that we now register that they say these words. So the theory is that it's. The whole sequence is you are face to face now with me. So listen, with that in mind. You are. You can kind of hear it. Just wait when you hear it in context, But I'm going to isolate it. One more time. You are face to face now. One more time. Face to face now now with me still sounds like a reach, but now in your mind, follow these samples in the context of the song and think about. You are face to face now with me.
- [106:40]
B
I'm gonna be honest, Cole. This is one of my favorite dissections that I've ever been privy to. Like, this is. This is number one. I hear it. I have been dissected. Somebody get the HBO Max app put on the pit. It's a surgery room up in this. Yes, yes, yes. This is why I love doing this. Hell, yeah.
- [107:10]
A
I was like. I was like, is this a thing? And then I did the. I isolated them. I'm like, like, now?
- [107:16]
B
Hell, yes.
- [107:17]
A
And then the actual vocalist comes in singing about Face to Face. I'm like, are they that good? And then you listen to the rest of the album. You listen to the guitar solo on Digital Love. Yeah, they are that good. Like, I'm not putting it past them that this was intentional.
- [107:30]
B
All right. Because we need to. We. We've been going long, so I'm going to rush through. Best moment. Justin, do not get mad at me. I did not pick the pyramid because I felt like, like, too many years later. It's too many years later. It's 2006, right?
- [107:45]
C
It's too many years later. That's fine.
- [107:47]
A
I watched. I watched the full set the other night. I was like, once I turn it on, I, like, could not turn it off. I was like, this is fantastic.
- [107:54]
B
Like, mind. Mind melting. Face melting. Like, amazing. I. People have been jacking that performance for years.
- [108:01]
A
Look at Con, like, every so much. What I realized, too, is, like, how much Conde was influenced by Daft Punk. That. Because all his stage shows after Daft Punk's Pyramid, that's when he really starts to take his stage show in the dark.
- [108:15]
B
Yeezus. Yes. Like, you can see, like, Yeezus the.
- [108:18]
A
Mountain is, to me, like, exactly, like, kind of like a nod to the pyramid.
- [108:22]
B
Same thing with the. The mask that he wore. Like, there's a lot of, like, Daft Punk. But then again, it's the beauty of like Daft Punk is super influenced by Chicago house. And then this kid growing up in Chicago who's in love with sampling is sampling in a different way. But like you could could see the spiritual connection between these French and similarly, my best moment is Interstellar 5555, the story of the secret star system. Because like we said, the theme of this album, the loose theme is that is going back to Da Daft Punk's childhood. And one thing that people might not be aware of is in America, when people say when Americans are like, I'm into anime, nine times out of ten they're into Dragon Ball Z and fucking Naruto. When you go to France, what you have to understand is the connection between the French and the Japanese is very, very strong. They love manga, they love anime. Their animation, French animation, I'm talking about hand drawn animation is still a thing. They are a society that loves aesthetics and loves supporting the arts. And I think it's so cool that on their set you have to think about this on second album, right? They're like, oh, we want to make a live action movie. I'm like, this is your sophomore album. You are not making a live action movie. So what do they decide to do? They settle for making a fucking anime. They are influenced heavily by I'm going to butcher his name Liji Matsumoto. They said to Toonami, quote, we have always been great fans of animation since we were kids. At around the age of five years old, we would watch Captain Harlock. The show was made by Matsumoto, who we are working with 20 years later. So we're finally working with a big source of our inspiration. The music we have been making must have been influenced at some point by the shows we were watching when we were little kids. And what I enjoy about that quote is that there are not just aesthetically in terms of the robot heads, the blowing up, that lore, but when you do listen to Discovery especially, I think of a lot, a lot of the kinetic, childlike wonder. All of the inspirations to me is the feeling of watching 80s anime. They were. It was very funny in the, in the interview, the Tsunami interview there the person asked them like, well, what new anime do you like? They're like, you know, Evangelion and Ghost of the Shell is cool, but now we like that old shit. And as a kid, when I talked about that day when I was walking past that Sam Goody and I saw the video for One More Time, it was yeah, it's just like one of those. Those things, those neurons that as a kid fires on where it sold the music to me. Like the fact that when I was re watching the movie last night and I had forgot, I'm like, oh, there's no words in this movie. It's all just music. I'm just like, these are just music videos that have like a light kind of like narrative. But the music is so good, you don't care. You don't need words.
- [111:31]
A
You.
- [111:31]
B
When you were talking about Radiohead being so good at scoring and the. The Emotions, I think Daft Punk is a. Is a similar way. And Interstellar5555, if you haven't watched it, like one day when you're at the crib, just put it on while you're doing dishes, while you're doing chores. It is something where like every scene you'll like, stop, drop a little bit and you're like, wait, what the is going on? So to recap, my biggest song was One More Time. My best song was Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger. Worst song, Night Vision. Best Deep Cut, Face to Face. Best Moment. The anime Interstellar 5555. Can you go down your categories?
- [112:09]
A
Yeah. Biggest song. Can we just skip the Head to Head? This is gonna be really dreading this. Okay, so biggest song, Everything in Its Right Place. Best song, how to Disappear Completely. Worst song. What did I pick in Limbo? Best Decrepit Idiotech. And Best Moment. SNL National Anthem on SNL stage.
- [112:29]
B
All right, so let's take a little bit of a break and when we back get back, unfortunately, we're going head to head and this is going to be.
- [112:37]
A
Oh, God.
- [112:37]
B
Very, very, very difficult. All right, we are back with the Head To Head. This is when. And both Cole and I pit our five categories against each other to see which album will be crowned and taken into the Royal Rumble. I want to do something a little bit different this time. How about we go to the categories that are super easy first, and then we will go to the ones that are a little bit more difficult. I think Biggest song is probably pretty. Is a pretty easy category. I would say One More Time is if.
- [113:13]
A
Okay, if we're doing just the technicality, what was the bigger song? And just literally, what's the biggest song? Yeah, I would. I just have to.
- [113:20]
B
You can argue. You. You can argue. I would say One More Time is still us is still something where if I walk out of this door and hear it, I would not be surprised. I'm just like, people play that song.
- [113:30]
A
Yeah, it's the biggest song. It's definitely the biggest song. Do I think it's the best song? No, I actually, I. I think. I think everything in the right place is far superior. And I love. I love. But it's. It's two different worlds. But if Just to save us time, like, I'm not going to argue that it's a bigger song. I think it's. You can argue, maybe it's a more important song just symbolically because of the historical stuff that I. That I pointed out. But that's more Kid A. The album itself, not necessarily that song. Although that song kicks off, you know, it's inseparable in my mind. But I'm going to. I'll just stay true to the category to make it easy. I'll concede that, you know, One More Time is the bigger song.
- [114:10]
B
All right, so for best moment, we have Interstellar 555 versus the SNL performance. I think this is also pretty easy. Easy. Those videos are iconic like. Like that. Are they, though? What. Are we being serious, Cole? You can't even find your performance on YouTube. Let me.
- [114:31]
A
Well, that's. Again, this is this. Okay, so you had. You had an archival piece that was like, you know, a legit thing that. That sustained. Like, I'm working with, like, scraps here, like, because I think that was a moment in time. It's just. It's just not documented, so. Rules. I can. I can also. I can also. I can also bring up the fact that they. At Kid A, they streamed it on websites before streaming was a thing. I could bring up the fact that, you know, they. What? What? You didn't.
- [115:00]
B
Oh. First of all, Daft Punk had Daft Club, where literally they were sending out cards that you could literally, like, type in and get different remixes and. So sick. So sick. So you can't use that either. I will just say the video for One More Time, which is taken from this movie, has 569 million views. Harder, better, faster, stronger has 150. 52 million views. Like this. Like.
- [115:27]
A
Okay, but here's the thing with Kid A, The Kid A was the moment. Like, picking a best moment. The. The album was the moment. It's a turning point in the history of music.
- [115:36]
B
And I would argue Daft Punk's discovery and the videos and the visuals where it's like, if I had to ask people who is the more iconic group, they would 100 times out of 100 say it is Daft Punk. Even if you don't listen to Dap Punk, if you point.
- [115:53]
A
What are you talking about? What's your definition of iconic?
- [115:56]
B
When you point at those two helmets, you're like, that's Dap Punk. When you see the little.
- [116:02]
A
Okay. When you point out Tom York's lazy eye, you.
- [116:05]
B
I, I. We'll ask Justin. Justin, do you think more people can recognize the Daft Punk robot helmets or Tom York?
- [116:15]
A
Oh, God. It's clear that helmets are more iconic, but, like, Radiohead was anti. Radiohead was anti image.
- [116:24]
B
Like, Trina is not.
- [116:27]
C
Trina's got thoughts.
- [116:36]
B
My girl. I love Trina so much.
- [116:38]
C
Is this what you envisioned when we set up the studio today? Sorry, Radiohead's a more iconic band.
- [116:48]
A
Yes.
- [116:48]
B
What?
- [116:49]
C
I'm not saying you're gonna win that.
- [116:51]
B
He, that who's gonna win?
- [116:52]
C
I'm just saying that Radiohead's a more iconic band.
- [116:54]
B
This is.
- [116:56]
A
I think that's 100 true. I love Daft Punk. But to who?
- [117:00]
B
To who? All right, if we go back to best moment. Yours is an SNL performance. Mine is in the entire movie, that is.
- [117:11]
A
I thought this was the easy one.
- [117:12]
B
Interstellar 5555 is an iconic piece of pop culture.
- [117:18]
A
Let's move on. Call. Well, just, let's just put a pin in it. Let's keep going.
- [117:21]
B
Okay, where do. Do we want to go? Worst song.
- [117:27]
A
I think that should just be a wash. I'm not going to argue.
- [117:29]
B
That's a tie. It's, It's. We both also picked, like, songs that are not bad, but are very much just like, like, transitional part of the.
- [117:37]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [117:38]
B
All right.
- [117:38]
A
Okay. So best song versus best song. How to disappear completely masterpiece of the 21st century versus harder, bigger, faster, Stronger.
- [117:49]
B
Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger, to me is.
- [117:51]
A
It's really not, though. He's just not even the best. It's not even the best song on the album.
- [117:55]
B
It is a more important song.
- [117:57]
A
If you. No, if you, if you pick Digital Love or Face to Face, I think you'd have a stronger case. I thought it was a strategic misstep to pick Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger. As much as I like the song, I don't even. It's not even in my top five on this record. On this album.
- [118:13]
B
Yes, but we are using, and sometimes I think, as, like, music critics and music fans, we can get very, very in the weeds. But Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger is such an important, important artifact of the 21st century. If you, if this song disappears, so much music is erased. It is just like. It is like the Back to Future where it's just like if we never Hear Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger. There are so many rappers, so many pop stars, so many electronic artists that are no longer the same. And I love, I love Radiohead, but I, I, I, I don't think that this is a contest. I, I literally think Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger is just. Yes. Is it cool to be like we're picking the pop hit? No, but sometimes you just have to be like, yo, this song is like an earthquake. And when you still put it on, you can put it on for a baby, you can put it on for an 80 year old. And you do not have to explain any of it. They will understand why this.
- [119:17]
A
How to disagree, to use your own point against you, how to disappear completely articulates a feeling of alienation in the world. It foreshadows this isolation, alienation of a nation, of us as people, as in a technology age. It's the birth point of one of the best, one of the greatest musical kind of orchestrators, film scores that we have in Johnny Greenwood. This is his birth moment of that, that that side of his career starts here. It's the origin point. It's technically brilliant. It cap. It's a, it's a perfect song. It's a perfect song.
- [119:55]
B
Neotech, I would have been more on your side because that's easily the best song off Kid A. Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger is just like, yo, what the are we doing? Sometimes a Big Mac is a Big Mac and like, you just have to respect it.
- [120:10]
A
But you just conceded it was the not even a top five on the album.
- [120:14]
B
But we're having, we're having different conversations. I'm talking about a song that is so seismic that it is just like, hey, I have to like, go back to when I was 9 years old hearing Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger, and it's just like everything from the sample to the talk to the talk box, little like voc quarter outro. Everything about this song is per. Like, this is a 1010. You can.
- [120:42]
A
We're gonna have to call Justin in. We have to call Justin in because I'm not conceding.
- [120:48]
C
Is this gonna be the. Is this the rest of the season? Is the rest of the season? Me having to make ahead the.
- [120:53]
A
The. I think this is going to be the most contentious. I think this is easily the most.
- [120:57]
B
This is.
- [120:57]
C
Do you think this is more contentious than what we went through with Beyonce.
- [121:01]
B
And J. I still got, I still got cheated. Like, there's, there's also a level of like, I get it, I get it. As music critics, sometimes we like the narrative of the album. We like all of this other shit, but sometimes we do need to go back to when we were cavemen and just be like, when you put on a record, does it make you move your feet? Is there something soul where you don't have to explain it. When you hear it on a dance floor, you just want to dance. It is literally a net positive to the world. And I think Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger is that song.
- [121:35]
A
I. I can see the biggest song with One More Time. We're talking.
- [121:40]
B
You can't see One More Time is a way huger size. Way bigger.
- [121:45]
A
But. But you're now using Harder, Bigger, Faster, Stronger. The. The. The mass appeal of it.
- [121:49]
B
No, no, no. I'm not even using. I'm. I'm using what I think that we underrate as music critics where it's just like, we like songs that have like this quote unquote depth, where it's just like, oh, they're doing all of this. And I'm like, no, no. When you play this on a dance, dance floor, is there something so primal about the beat, about the way it hits your ears?
- [122:13]
A
And you can say the same. You could. You could say the same thing for. For how to discomfort completely and headphones in the dark and think about your life and existence. And it's like, it'll take you places that only music that good can. And it will make you can reflect. It'll. It taps into just like what it is to be human about how existence is. We're just so alone, despite being so together and so connected. Like, it taps into exactly what it feels like to be human. The loneliness we all feel deep, deep, deep down inside. No matter how many friends we have, how many loved ones that we have around us, this song taps into the loneliness of life.
- [122:52]
C
Cole, that was beautiful.
- [122:54]
B
However. However.
- [122:56]
C
However. Only one of these songs had the white girls in the video on YouTube writing the Sharpie on their hands and doing all the. I'm actually both of you guys. The problem with this is you've been doing this for too long, and you're both turning into excellent debaters and you're not willing to concede the point because you want to win the debate, even if you know deep down you might be wrong. So I guess I gotta come. I gotta actually come in on this one.
- [123:21]
A
You do.
- [123:23]
C
Charles has this one. I'm sorry.
- [123:27]
B
Hell fucking yeah.
- [123:28]
A
Right? I'm not even gonna fight. Right. Let's move on.
- [123:31]
B
Best deep cut. We can make this easy. I love face to face. I love face to face.
- [123:40]
A
Idiot.
- [123:40]
B
Idiotech. Is so good, bro.
- [123:43]
A
If you would have gave me the last one, I would have give you this one, but I'm not conceding three.
- [123:47]
B
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Do you like Idio? Do you like Face to Face more than idiotech?
- [123:52]
A
No, I like idiotech.
- [123:53]
B
I like idiotech even though Face to Face, like, it's like, to me, like, both of these are 100 out of 100.
- [124:01]
A
Yeah.
- [124:01]
B
But idiotech is just like.
- [124:04]
A
Oh, it has a dimension that face to. As much as I gushed about Face to Face, idiotech has just a little bit more of the emotional resonance to me. Even though it's just. It's. It's by a hair, though. I'm.
- [124:18]
B
I think so right now. I have one more time. Harder, better, faster, stronger. We said worst song is a wash. You have best deep cut. And we are torn on best moment. I think it's crazy that you're trying to convince me that an SNL performance that most people cannot even see was a bigger cultural moment than a video that literally changed the face of music.
- [124:42]
A
But I could just. No. What? I could have just said. I could have just said kid A. The album.
- [124:47]
B
No, you can't, because I can just say discovery, the album. Album.
- [124:50]
C
No, no, Cole. Cole has a point on this one. Cole.
- [124:54]
A
It really was. Yeah. Like, Discovery came out, and it was like. It what? It just, like, you cannot overstate Radiohead going from a rock band of, okay, computer. Having the weight of rock music history on their shoulders and pivoting. That is a Bob Dylan goes electric moment. It is a crystallization in music history. Like, it is a moment. Like.
- [125:13]
B
No, no, no, I'm not. I'm not saying that is isn't. I'm not saying that it isn't. What I'm arguing is that even if in the moment, radio. Like, all of that is true discovery to me. Just like, as the years progress, like, I couldn't pick the Coachella performance. You know what I'm saying? I can't pick Kanye Sampling. Harder, better, faster, stronger. I can't pick just the. Like. Like, when I was in college, how much of the EDM wave was just reheating dad punks, nachos. Like, I can't pick any of that. Like, when you look at, like, are still gonna argue with you, like, what the best Radiohead album is when you put on Discovery is just like, hey, yo, man. Like, random man's access memories is good. Human, after all, is good. But, like, discovery is the one, bro. Like, what?
- [126:05]
A
No Random access memories. I actually think has A bigger crowd for it, for being their best album. That record is beloved.
- [126:15]
B
I know it's beloved, but also, like, let's. Let's. Let's be real.
- [126:20]
C
Pitchfork also rescored that in the opposite direction.
- [126:24]
A
Oh, really?
- [126:25]
B
I think. And I love Random Access Memories. I think it is a phenomenal album. We gotta relax. Like, I think Random Access Memories is in the lemonade position for me, where I'm just like, come on, y'.
- [126:37]
A
All.
- [126:37]
B
Like, it's just like, y' all are letting fucking random recency bias kick y' all ass. Like. Like, relax.
- [126:43]
A
I would say to those people that haven't returned to Discovery, it's. Yeah, it's. I think Discovery is the better.
- [126:49]
B
Let's. Let's just. You know what? Let's just get to the meat and potatoes. Are we picking Discovery? Are we picking Discovery or Kid A?
- [126:58]
A
I could. I really cannot do this. I don't even. I can't. I can't concede. Like, I just can't concede. But I also, like, can't argue that hard against Discovery. Like. Like, this is just a torturous pairing that I feel like both should be nominated to the finale. Can we have our first draw, Justin, or do we have to. Do we have to decide one of.
- [127:18]
C
They'Re going to have to be eliminated at some point? I. I said this to you about another pairing that actually isn't going to end up happening later in the season. But sometimes the Bills and the Chiefs have to play in the AFC Championship game. The right to go to the Super Bowl. Maybe not the best metafor, considering the Chiefs played the Bills and got their ass kicked in the super bowl, but you get the point. Yeah, you got to pick one, I think.
- [127:41]
A
Well, Justin, what. What would you're entrusted. We really respect your opinion. You know, you're talking about. You've been a music journalist for a very, very long time. You follow all of this stuff, so we at least weigh in. Maybe you don't have to make the decision, but try to sway us one way or the other.
- [128:00]
C
See, I'm a little inclined to kind of split the difference and kind of talk out of both sides of my mouth on this one, because here's what I believe about these two albums. I believe that. And I want to stress we're not doing what's the most important album because we, you know, we could have had that discussion with Take Care versus My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, and it could have gone in the wrong direction.
- [128:25]
B
I mean, we damn near had that fucking conversation with. With Lemonade. And beyond Lemonade's Beyonce and Jay Z's blueprint. Because I won. We want to be real.
- [128:34]
C
So this is not my vote, but I think Kid A in the moment upon release was definitely the more important album. And I think it kind of stands as this really like, monolithic thing at the beginning of the century. I think that Discovery was something of a little bit more of a slow discovery. Forgive me for repeating the name of the album, but I think it was kind of a slower discovery for a lot of people. We're not picking most important album. We're not picking the one that had the biggest impact on upon release. We're also not picking the, I guess, most like, cohesive album. Because if we were doing that, like just listening to the way that Kid A was structured feels that, like, it's just these songs, the way they weave in and out of each other, the way the pieces all fit together, everything in its right place. Not the song, the description of it. But God damn, I've been listening to both these albums for a week and Jesus Christ, if it isn't. When every time I put on Discovery, I'm like, this is the one. For me personally, I'm not making decision, you guys.
- [129:55]
A
Hold on. You know who loves both of these records equally? Is Kevin still here? Kevin's here. What's up? Okay, Kevin, can you quickly weigh in on if you were forced to choose, which one of these would you choose? I also also preface this with Kevin is the most brilliant electronic musician I've ever met. He has a collection of vintage synthesizers. I think he's equally influenced by both radio and Daft Punk. So he knows what he's talking about, like 100% in this.
- [130:24]
B
Well, thanks for the boat of confidence.
- [130:27]
A
Yes.
- [130:28]
B
I'm a big synth nerd, for sure. Fan of electronic music since I think 1990. Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [130:35]
A
Homework definitely changed my life, influenced my.
- [130:38]
B
Whole life music career.
- [130:41]
A
But I think all in all, if I had to choose, I think Kid A single handedly reinvented digital music. So I'm just gonna say that. Yes.
- [130:54]
B
Now, if I can be honest, I.
- [130:57]
A
Also think they pioneered Internet distribution.
- [131:00]
B
They kind of took like, here's an.
- [131:02]
A
Approach to writing music like rock traditionally is written like this. And they reinvented that whole process as well. Well, I really, I. I gotta actually go. I gotta take my. My daughter to gymnastics right now. She's gonna be late. So I. I can't concede. I just, I can't concede.
- [131:18]
B
If we don't pick Discovery, y'. All. Dad Punk Like. Like what? What? Digital love. Digital love.
- [131:26]
A
Everything in its right place.
- [131:28]
B
Digital love. Aerodynamic. Harder.
- [131:29]
A
Better. Faster.
- [131:30]
B
Stronger. One more time. Like what? This ain't the 1990s, y'. All. This is the 2025. And Daft Punk is one of the most important. Radiohead is also important. I get that. But it's that punk.
- [131:43]
A
It's just that. It's just we're talking in circles because, like, you can. You can replace everything I'm saying with radio, with Daft Punk, and I can replace everything you're saying with Radiohead. They're just on parallel. They're just parallel artists in this way. And they. It's the same exact era. They're pointing in the same direction. These are the. These are the guys that together, this. The trajectory is just never the same. And they're the ones that.
- [132:05]
B
Do we just fail this episode and just leave it to the fans?
- [132:09]
A
Oh, that's interesting.
- [132:11]
C
This is fucking insane. Okay, I. You know what? This is a fun experiment. Let the fans decide this one. I know where this is going to end up. I know where this is going to end up.
- [132:23]
A
Maybe we should also do.
- [132:24]
B
I think people are going to pick. I think most people are going to.
- [132:26]
C
Same kid. Same.
- [132:28]
B
Even though it's just. It's. It's. It's. You know what? It's fine.
- [132:33]
A
I actually like this. I love this.
- [132:34]
B
Of course. This is your home crowd. This is your home crowd. So they're going to pick Kid A. Now, if we go to the streets.
- [132:41]
A
I don't think so, actually.
- [132:42]
B
I think if we went to the streets, a lot of people would be like, I can't. Like, come on, come on.
- [132:46]
A
Don't sell yourself short yet. I actually think Daft Punk has a legitimate chance. Just. The real ones know. The real ones know what. What's right here, Charles. All right, we're leaving on a cliffhanger. This is. This was my favorite episode we've ever done.
- [133:03]
B
I think I could talk. I could continue talking about these people.
- [133:05]
A
This could have been three hours. Go. Beautiful. All right, we'll see you next week with the results.
- [133:10]
C
Good luck. Good luck at gymnastics practice.
- [133:13]
B
Hell, yeah.
- [133:14]
C
Trina. Trina has might have a few more things to say next episode. So I think this is a great episode also maybe our most chaotic one.
- [133:22]
A
Yeah. Okay. Beautiful.