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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. This episode is presented by AT&T. AT Att, the iPhone 17 Pro is your summer essential. Its center stage front camera auto adjusts the frame to fit everyone into group selfies. You don't even have to turn your phone right now. @, at and t ask how you can get an iPhone 17 Pro on them with eligible iPhone trade in any condition requires trade in of iPhone 15 or higher excluding iPhone 16e and 17e requires eligible plan. Terms and restrictions apply, subject to change. Visit att.com iPhone for details. Welcome everyone to a special episode of Dissect. I'm your host, Cole Kushna. We are still on a brief intermission from our Daft Punk season. We will be resuming it next week, but today we are here to talk about not one, not two, but three new Drake albums that somehow all dropped this past Friday. And joining me for the occasion is self proclaimed or once self proclaimed Aubrey's Angel OVO Charles Paul.
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B
Don't do me like that. Don't do me like that.
- [01:14]
A
Are you still a member of the Aubrey's Angels? What's the status of your membership?
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B
Oh, my membership has been revoked. Like, I revoked it. Toronto has revoked it. I no longer feel like I'm welcomed. But there were moments, I would say, where I'm just like, damn, new Drake sounds good. And then there were moments where I was just like, I wish I could get three hours of my life back. Or like, honestly, my whole weekend back.
- [01:41]
A
Justin, Justin, sales producer is here. Justin, what up, man?
- [01:45]
C
My social battery drained. For real, for real, for real. Yeah, Yeah.
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A
I think that's my favorite. We'll talk about it. I think that might be my favorite song on the album now. Okay, but let's set the stage a little bit. We're going to talk about all three albums. I think we're going to talk mostly about Iceman. That is the album that I listen to the most. I think it's the one that we all listen to the most this weekend. I did try to give the other two albums their fair share of listens. That was a little harder to stomach. But we will talk about all three. I wanted to table set the conversation by kind of rehashing just a little bit of Drake post the battle with Kendrick because I think obviously this was first Drake's first solo album since the battle. It's the longest break between solo albums in his career, I think. For all the Dogs came out in October of 2023. So that's almost a thousand days. That's a long time for Drake And I think at one point, the narrative behind this album, I mean, it's been a kind of a two year thing and a formal one year rollout. Actually, he started teasing this almost a year ago, but it seemed like the narrative used to be this would be Drake's kind of comeback album. Post battle, it seemed like there was like some make or break stakes to it. I don't know. I didn't really feel that way recently, but that was once a narrative. Charles, I don't know. Did you feel that there was any stakes to this album for Drake and his career? Did it feel like a make or break moment to you?
- [03:19]
B
I don't know if it felt like a make or break moment, but the stakes did feel high. And to me, this is actually the cycle of Drake across his discography. When you look at a lot of his albums, think about views. And it took a while for him to get to views because when he went into the battle with Meek Mill, people actually thought he was gonna lose. Meek is a battle rapper. He came out on top. He has all these hits. And almost him creating the album became such a big thing that it became the like, what is Drake gonna do post Meek after winning? And he arguably releases one of his most popular albums, if not his best. I think Scorpio followed a similar thing post Pusha T where it's like people, when he lost that battle, it was revealed he had a kid. He drops an overstuffed album that is addressing everything from Kanye to Pusha T to the kid Reveal. And I think, I don't think I know Iceman has that weight. That's bogging it down as well, which is Drake backed into a corner again, having lost the beef with Kendrick. And you can feel it, especially in Iceman, that he is struggling to steer the narrative back into a place where he's the number one guy on top.
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A
Yeah, Justin, I think this is the
- [04:43]
C
first time that a Drake album has been narratively important since maybe Scorpion maybe views. I do have to say you mentioned Scorpion being a very bloated response to the Pusha T album. And this is obviously like a very bloated drop. It is worth noting that this album is, I believe, an hour and nine minutes, which would make it the shortest Drake record since maybe if you're reading this, it's too late.
- [05:14]
B
I mean, but obviously he dropped three records where he floods the zone to such a degree that even having to talk about these albums after a weekend, I still. It's even hard for me to parse what are the different songs. He's sending so many shots. He's trying to, honestly. And this has been a lot of Drake's trajectory in the latter stage of his career. It used to feel like it was so effortless. He would just make a song and it would become a hit. And on Iceman especially, but on all three of them, it seems like he's fishing to find not only a hit, but what people like about him.
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A
Yeah, the three, really. I mean, we can just talk about the three release strategy since we're already here. I mean, I was obviously, I was very baffled when I heard on Friday that it was coming three albums on the same day. You start to hear pretty shortly after that speculation that this was a way for him to get out of his contract with umg. Fulfillment of a contract that we don't know the full details of. But essentially he signed a renewal with UMG in 2022 that was alleged 400 million dollar deal that he did brag about after he signed it. And so I wonder how much of this is to your point. And this is something me and Justin talked about right after the announcement was like this idea of flooding the Zone with so much attention around you and, you know, there's going to be, you know, placed under the microscope and so much scrutiny around what you say. And the narrative behind it is this an. Is this deflection by way of, you know, overwhelming us with content so that it's a little hard to focus in on one thing that he says because he is, he is quote, unquote, saying so much, which is, you know, a political strategy that Trump and Bannon kind of made famous. This idea of flooding the Zone. As sympathetic as I want to be to the UMG contract stuff, I still just feel like this was a, what will amount to a stat padding stunt, a kind of an attempt at creating a viral moment. And that quickly kind of became what I think most. The consensus that I'm hearing is that two of these albums are throwaway albums and that Iceman is the real album. And I just wonder, Charles, do you think this was an effective strategy? What do you think was the point of this?
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B
So to me, when he dropped the three albums, almost the UMG of it all to me wasn't important. Because if I'm thinking historically of what Drake does, Drake loves to brag. So much of his brand is I'm the number one artist, I'm the most streamed artist. If you release three albums, the likelihood that he is going to have the number one, number two, number three, album in the country in a week is very, very high. So no matter if he. If this album produces a hit like Not Like Us or becomes something like GNX became, which is like kind of like a classic overnight, it doesn't matter because he can point to the charts and say, well, look, I have three num. I have the three spots on the Billboard. Hey, Spotify is already saying, I broke this. These amount of records. I'm still just as big, if not bigger than Kendrick. So instead of focusing on the music, we end up, his fans can now say, well, look, see, Kendrick did all of this. All of these people tried to tear him down, but he still as big and as popular as he always was. And I do think that we can. All listeners of music are so smart now, just of culture. All so smart. And I do feel like there is this sense from everyone where we're like, hey, man, we kind of know what you're doing. We've seen this before, and it does seem like a cynical move, but am I being too negative?
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A
Justin, what do you think?
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C
I'm thinking about the Flooding the Zone comment. And I'll come back to the. I do think what you're saying is actually really interesting because I hadn't considered what it's going to look like when the Billboard charts come out in a week. And it's going to say 1, 2, 3. Right?
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B
Same thing with the top 10.
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C
I mean, the top 10, we've seen that before. We've seen him do that before. We've seen Taylor Swift do that. We've seen artists do that. But like the 1, 2, 3 on the billboard, that's never happened. You have artists way back, like Bruce Springsteen, Guns N Roses, releasing albums on the same day, dmx. Dmx. Well, that was in one year, but I'm talking about releasing the album on the same release day. So you see, like, Guns N Roses. I don't know if this actually happened, but I assume it did. But like 1, 2 on the charts right there, never seen a 1, 2, 3. It's gonna be really rough if he gets beat off by like, Morgan Wallen on. On one of these for like, number three. But to the Flooding the Zone,
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B
it.
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C
It does seem to me that he had a narrative that he wanted to push forth with Iceman in particular. The rest of it, it's really. It took me about like a day and a half to really wrap my head around everything that he was doing.
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A
Right?
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C
Like what these three albums were like. Obviously, like, at first you listen like, okay, this one's a dance record. This one's an R B record, this one's a rap record. It's. I wonder how much like the casual listener, someone that doesn't have to listen to all this stuff to make a podcast episode about it. Someone who is like just. I don't know, I. Somebody who just puts Drake on their playlist and goes about their day. Do you think they've even fully wrapped their head around this volume of music?
- [11:13]
B
Not only have they not probably wrapped their head around it, I don't even know if most Drake fans or fans of Drake that are not waiting for the drops, they're probably not sifting through this record. They're probably waiting for one or two of these records to blow up and then put it on their. Their playlist. And the genius to me of Drake in the past was on so Far Gone. And then what he ended up perfecting on Take Care later is that there have been rappers who sang before. He is not 50 Cent was very melodic, Nelly, very melodic. You can go like, you can go, little brother. All these, all these artists. To me, the genius of Drake was how effortless it was. One moment he was rapping, one moment he was singing on the same record. He could have a dance record, but then he could have a half record rap, half R and B or an Afropop record. And it was all seamless. As he's continued on in his career, he segmented his art. So you do get the rap record from Drake and then you'll get the R and B and then you'll get the dance record. But all of them to me are kind of flimsy because he's not a good enough singer to carry a full R and B record. He is not a good enough performer even vocally to carry a lot of these dance records. So when he just has to do it in a silo, you notice more of the edges being cut and like the roughness of it.
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A
Yeah, I mean, that's my main gripe with it. I mean, I think in theory a three album drop could potentially be interesting if there was some kind of artistic reasoning before. You know, you can justify it artistically to me. What A lot of these songs, especially on the other two albums, sound like he's just checking a box. Yeah, it's like I need to make three records to get out of my contract. Let me do a single session tonight and knock out this song. It doesn't have a hook or like so many of these songs. I like, let me say out front, I like Iceman it's my favorite Drake project in a long time. The other two albums, to me, feel like he's checking boxes, feel like he didn't give any effort to develop them. Like, structurally, it's. It's a weird experience to listen to 43 Drake songs and not. And you only remember, like, one or two or three choruses.
- [13:43]
B
Yeah.
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A
Like, sing me a chorus from any of these records. That'll probably be the Janus song, which I think is one of my favorites. But it's a lack of melody. I mean, he's singing a lot, but the lack of hook and melody and song structure and bridge are just. It's lacking across a lot of the projects.
- [14:01]
B
I. I would even say, like, if we're being real, not only do I agree with you, like, I really like Habibti is probably the record where I'm like, I like this version of Drake, but I would say this is about maid of honor 2. This man cannot hit a note where he's always used auto tune. He's always manipulated his voice. But on so many of these records, it feels like, hey, this isn't intent. This doesn't feel intentional. This feels like your voice as instrument has waned, or at least you have not honed in on it. So to your point, if the. If the pop structure is wonky and then your pen, from a lyrical standpoint, but also from a chorus standpoint has waned, and. And then just singing wise, you don't sound good. The things that differentiated you from everyone is no longer there. And I do think that what this suffers from is something that. Something like GNX really worked, which is. GNX was a very honed project. Kendrick did not make you sift through almost three hours of music to find the standout tracks. He was secure enough in the project to be like, hey, I forget. How many songs. How many songs is GNX? Like, 12. 13.
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A
Yeah. 13, 14.
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B
Yeah. It's like. It's very tight. It's very structured. You know what. You know what this record is about? Let me ask you this, Cole or Eve Justin, what is Iceman about?
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C
It's about victimhood.
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B
Yes. And I.
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A
It's about being a cry bully.
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C
Yeah.
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B
It's.
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C
I do have to say that there is. There have been few artists in the history of recorded music who have been so well situated to play the victim as Drake. And yet here we are with him very, like, very infamously now, in a position where he's the underdog and he just makes it really hard to root for him. I. Cole, you Said that Iceman is one of your favorite Drake records in a while. I agree. I actually think that this Iceman might be the best Drake project since more life, maybe 2017.
- [16:25]
B
But. But that doesn't mean much. When his last projects were so forgettable. I forgot you guys mentioned for all the Dogs. I'm like, oh, yeah, that was a solo project. Certified Lover boy. Yeah, These records mean nothing. Like, nobody brings up Certified Lover Boy or For all the Dogs. I don't even know if there's a song off for all the Dogs that is still being played. But to your point, if we kind of get into the music on the intro, this was so. The intro to me was really, really good. I love the beat. I loved how he was rapping. His pen was sharper than ever. And what stood out to me was when he said, quote, I feel like 40 won't even listen to my words when he knows I'm in a load of trouble I'm in the cut. Just loading rebuttals. And then he goes on to say, 40 says, prove to me that you're still as strong when it's only us two. They know you thorough with the bread, but there's some shit you gotta pony up to. Basically he's saying, I got growing up to do. I gotta dig deep. Feel like 40 won't even listen to my words when he knows I'm in a load of trouble I'm in a cut. Just loading rebuttals. That is the most lucid that we have heard Drake in a while. I was like, I heard that song. And I'm like, okay, you know what the problem is? And then for the rest of the record, he undermines that at every single point. He does not dig deep. He is the victim. Woe is me. He rewrites the beef in real time where I'm like, hey, yo. You were begging for Kendrick to respond. You were begging for these people to respond. It just did not work out in your favor. And now you want to throw a stone and hide your hand. And even though. Even in Iceman's greatest moments, like on Janice, Shut the Fuck Up, I think it's the best song. It's one of my favorite Drake songs in a while. But even some of the lines on that, I'm like, tr. We all saw how the beef unfolded. This is untrue.
- [18:17]
A
Yeah. I mean, yeah, to your point. Like, I was so hopeful when I heard this first track for the first time. Like, when he said, what died back in 2024 was a big piece so it's like, this shit is me, but it isn't me. Y' all keep asking me what it did to me. That's what it did to me. When I. When I dig deep, they say, dig deeper. Tell us how it felt to meet the Grim Reaper. This better. Battleman better, you know, so he's very self aware of this moment. Like, it feels like he's being truly introspective. And I don't think anyone expected him to make a Mr. Morale with this album, but I think a lot of us were hoping for some kind of introspection exactly like this, where it's like we see the human being behind this facade, behind the, The. The walls of his castle. What is this castle called?
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B
The compound. What does he call it? This.
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A
Yeah. Anyways, but, you know, we wanted to see the human being. I thought this was a really unique opportunity to do that. And then I don't know. What I'm trying to figure out is like, does this justify the rest of the album? Because he says, you know, I don't want to dig deep. I'm scared to take Ayahuasca Kendrick because I. I don't want to look that deep into myself. And so here's the rest of the rest of the album of me doing exactly not that. Right. Is that the setup here? Or is this just Drake understanding there are people like us that want to hear this kind of introspection. So he does his best, you know, one, he gives us the one song and puts it first so that, you know, appeases people like us. And then he spends the rest of the time pandering to, you know, the Aiden Ross's of the world?
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B
I.
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A
That's what I can't figure out. Is this genuine? Does this actually set up the rest of the album in an interesting way? Or is it just like, inauthentic and just kind of like he's just checking another box? Justin, I don't know what you think.
- [20:08]
C
I found the introspection to be pretty lacking.
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A
Right.
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C
Like there seems to be, you know, Charles, you. You highlighted that line, but those lines about 40. But outside of that, there doesn't really seem to be grappling with how we arrived at the moment that Drake was in. In 2024. He lost that beef not just because he got his ass kicked. He lost that beef because people wanted him to lose that beef. People were. People were sick of this guy and his whole shtick. And there's no grappling with what. With what this meant for him, how he got There, you know, we've been mostly complimentary. Well, in parts about Iceman to this point. I think the rapping at points is like, really pretty. Like, exemplary. Yeah, he's a great writer. He is a great rapper. Everything just feels so heavy and so serious these days without any real weight behind it. And look to shift gears slightly. I think that this record might have landed a little bit better if everything wasn't so goddamn serious in every. Like, you know, the image of Drake in my mind is always like the COVID of Take Care. You know, the guy in his mansion, you know, looking. Looking sad. And like, that is where he's at on this entire record. My favorite lines on the entire record also, come on, make them cry. Because they are the funniest lines on the entire record. And I, as a Sopranos fan, I think people know where I'm gonna go with this one. But sometimes I only see myself in my therapist glasses. But I'm not taking it serious. Cause she's very attractive. That is funny.
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A
That's funny. And actually, like, really interesting.
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C
Yes, that whole thing is funny. Is interesting. But we don't get a lot of that. Instead, we get lines like, compare, you know, Mugsy Bogues Dunked Once. It's like, okay, Kendrick short. I get it. Like, we're do. We're doing this again. You know, Cole, I sent you the meme the other day of the guy from World War II, the soldier who didn't surrender for 30 years. I can't remember his name, but, like, the famous meme about the. And that's what he sounds like on this record?
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A
Yeah. I mean, I would have loved if he just put it, like, I didn't need a single bar. About the battle. It's been two years. Does anyone care anymore? Jake, you lost. Could you just come back and make some hits? I think that's all anyone wants from him. We don't need to hear about the battle anymore. Charles, am I wrong?
- [22:51]
B
Not only are you not wrong, I think he can't even get out of his own way when he's striving to make the hits. I think two standout tracks for the wrong reason to me are Ran to Atlanta and Too Hard for the Radio. On Ran to Atlanta, you have him appearing with Future. It's supposed to be this club record. Molly Santana's on it. And in the title, in the actual song, he is referencing something that Kendrick said, not like us. So even when he's trying to make a hit, he is trying to say, actually, let me defend myself in too Hard for the Radio. You have this Bay Area type beat and there are lyrics about like, oh, you think Mr. West coast can make a regional record? Let me show you. I can make a regional record better. But he doesn't. It's like when Drake used to make a hit, it used to seem effortless. People did call him a culture vulture, but when you listen to an album like More Life, when he's going to the uk, when it's Afro beats, when. When it's him over the motto over something Bay Area infused, we used to be like, oh, we have almost never seen a rapper or a pop star be this much of a chameleon. And it seemed effortless. So many of the regional records like the Ran to Atlanta Too Hard for the Radio feel sweaty. They feel labored over. And that's Drake for the last couple years, it's felt labored over.
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C
And they also feel like empty provocations too, right? Like he's directly referencing the line from Not Like Us, but doesn't. You know, he's just referencing it for the sake of referencing it.
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A
Or he's trying to get ahead of it, right? Because people are going to say, oh, look, him and Future are back. He ran to Atlanta again, guys, that record's bad.
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C
There's. There's a small. There's a small piece of me that's like, did he just have this Future feature lying around? Or how much did he have to pay Future to get him on this record? Because it, like, you know, between the beat switch and everything, it just. It feels like so disconnect. They've made great music together where they have been like, totally locked in and this did not feel like that well.
- [25:14]
A
Also, the thing where it's like, we don't. We're not really just like, we don't. He doesn't owe us explanation of how they mended that relationship, if they ever did. But on an album so concerned with the narrative and the back, the backstabbing, to just out of the Blue Come Back with a future record that doesn't address what happened or how they amended their relationship feels really weird to me. It feels really transactional to me. And I just. I just. I don't know. It doesn't really sit well to me. It doesn't feel authentic anymore. It just feels really contrived and forced. And, yeah, to Charles's point, I don't think the song actually works. I like Molly Santana the most on that song, but the end of that song might be Drake's worst moments on the entire album.
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B
So but if we're being positive, Janice, Shut the Fuck Up.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Is so electric because it is Drake doing what he does best, which is like, make really catchy hooks. And when I'm listening to Janice Shut the Fuck Up, I think that has become the standout record so far besides the future record, because people are just curious about him and future being back together. When I listen to Janice Shut the Fuck Up, I'm like, the real win of this project. Would you being like, what you doing what some of the greatest rappers have done at their lowest, which is just like, actually, the beef is below me now. I'm just going to make some hit records and make y' all forget. Because I do think Drake is actually that talented that if he came back with 12 songs that were undeniable, most people would be like, oh, fine. Like, yeah, we're having fun again. Drake is back. I do think he has enough goodwill that if he picked the best 12 songs out of this, these 50 song chunks, most of us would have been like, man, we're so. That's so mature of you, turning the page and just make it hits.
- [27:11]
A
Exactly.
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C
Story of Adidon, you know, that would have been a lethal blow for any other rapper, but he came back that summer with Nice for what? And God's Plan and God, I mean, yes. And it's just two of the biggest records of his career. Two undeniable hit records that I can recall in my head. You say, nice for what? And all of a sudden I got the whole song in my head.
- [27:31]
B
Yep.
- [27:32]
C
That's not happening for any of these records. Maybe. Maybe. Janice Shut the. Because as three days after this release, that's the one that I find getting stuck in my head. That's the stickiest one.
- [27:41]
B
Yeah.
- [27:49]
A
And by the way, it's the most structured song on the entire album. Aside from maybe what Did I Miss, which is the other single, which has a well defined chorus. There's a. You know, Janice. Janice has a very defined hook as a very memorable flow in the verses. There's a bridge section where he kind of alters the chorus and takes the vocal melody a different place. And it's like song development, song structure. The things that Drake used to be so good at are all in this. And then, like, the hook is like. It's kind of classic Drake melody. But it's very interesting in the way that he pitches his voice in a way that we. I don't feel like we've heard all that much from him, you know, and there's like a. There's a quality. Like, this is something I really always admired in Drake and in Kanye, where you, like, you're like one or two degrees from it just being so corny and not working at all, which is what I think the hook of Janice is like, especially with the pitch modulation of the voice, where you're just like. The first time I heard, I was like, what? What? It kind of startled me. Like, what is this? Is this actually good? And then second, third time, I'm singing along and I'm loving it. That was. That is classic Drake to me. Just a few degrees away from corny, and all of a sudden you're singing along and having fun.
- [28:58]
B
No, I was gonna say one of my favorite songs out of this batch was a rusty intro off Habibty. Cause to me, it is right on the edge of corny. And sometimes when I listen to it, I'm like, this is awful. But it's doing what I think Drake does best, where I'm just like, he's going out on a limb. It's a very simple beat. It's an acoustic guitar strumming, and it's awkward and it's corny, but it's vulnerable. And he's kind of nailing it. And I'm like, this is interesting because most rappers would run away from this, and you're taking a swing, and even if you miss, I go back to it, and I'm just like, fuck, yeah. Sometimes you would just take swings, and you were. It used to feel like Drake was in on the joke and he could laugh at himself. And when a lot of people talk about what is Drake's connection to the manosphere? What is Drake's connection has the lyrics that we once thought he was in on the joke when he was cry, like, almost crying on the COVID of Take Care, like, begging women to stay with him. All of that stuff sounds very different when you're 40 versus when you're in your 30s and 20s. And even on the record, I think he says it on the intro. He's like, Yo, I'm almost 40. I'm aging. And I'm like, wait, so you know it? You know the fact that you're too old for this?
- [30:22]
A
This episode is brought to you by Warby Parker. A family member of mine was trying to buy glasses online recently, and it turned into a whole ordeal. There are so many styles that it's honestly overwhelming, and you're just staring at these tiny pictures trying to guess what'll actually look good on your face. Then the prices hit, and it feels Kind of wild to spend hundreds of dollars on something you're not even sure is going to work. But Warby Parker completely flipped the experience. They've simplified everything, quality, price, selection, all of it. And their virtual try on is surprisingly accurate. Such a game changer right now. Buy one prescription pair and get 20% off any additional prescription pairs@warbyparker.com dissect. That's 20% off additional prescription pairs when you go to warby parker.com dissect to your point. Like the last track on Maid of Honor is super interesting too, where he has that guitar riff and he's like singing about the girl he found in the bathroom. Like, I've never heard this. I've never heard Drake over a production like this. Even if it's not the strongest song it was at least my ears tuned up because it didn't sound like everything else we've heard from Drake for the last 10 years. And I think that's as much as I like this album for a Drake album, my biggest gripe with it is that musically we've heard versions of the every song on this record before. There's not one new. Yeah, there's not one new production style on all three records, aside from the little moments that we just kind of pointed out that is, that stands out from anything he's done for the last 10 years. And so while technically some of these are good songs, it's also not the most exciting thing in the world because we've had 10 of them. We've had 10 like it before. You know, it's like having an in and out burger again. It's like, yeah, it's good, but it's like I've had it before. It's predictable. There's a certain, I think, and I think what he does on this album a lot, especially if you're going to make 40 something songs. He's banking so much on the fact that his seal or his floor is so high that he can get away with kind of doing a single session in one night. Kind of like half ass his way through a verse and maybe, you know, half of a chorus and it's going to be passable. Right? His voice is good enough. He's a veteran making music to the point where he knows, you know, he has his comfort zones and he knows how to hit those things. And so you're left with, you know, 80% of these songs just being kind of good enough. And even the ones that are very strong we've heard before. So it's just Like, I don't know. It's the same place that I've been with Drake for. For the last eight years, where it's. I'm like, can we just try something new? Can we evolve a little bit artistically? And if not artistically, emotionally? Like, tell me how being a dad is. How's that going? Like, that's super interesting to me. I think a lot of people our age would like to hear what that's like for him. I guess one of the questions that I was kind of trying to think about, though, when it comes to this, like, do you think his core fan base now, like, let's use Aiden Ross as maybe a proxy for a certain segment of Drake's fan base. Do you think he can make vulnerable music still? Or would that fan base turn on him if he were to go too far in the direction of make him cry?
- [33:39]
B
I mean, to me, it's the cliche that they say about celebrities, which is, you get stuck in amber the moment you become famous. And there's moments on this record like he brags about, like, flying out porn stars like Cherokee to ass. And then I believe Cherokee got on Twitter and was just like, yo, why are you bringing up shit from 20 years ago? And to me, that was. That was indicative of the problem where I don't know if Drake can really be that vulnerable again because he has too much to lose now. And to me, this is the. Every rapper, especially as they get into their 40s or they've been famous for this long, have two choices to make. I think there's the Drake and the Eminem choice, where you end up becoming a parody of yourself, where your records were so massive, you became such a pop star that it's almost impossible for you not to fall back on bad habits. But those habits used to be the things that made you special. And I think the best rappers and the best musicians, take a Jay Z, for example. At one point, Jay Z was just like, I can't keep chasing hits. Like, I need four. Four, four is not my favorite record. But I think it is important in terms of Jay Z's discography because it buys him so much goodwill. Because you're like, okay, he's showing us something. He's showing us a level of vulnerability that he hadn't. I think Kanye with My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy is very similar where it's like, to me, the Taylor Swift incident is just like the. Is just like the Kendrick and Drake incident, where it's like, at your lowest. That's really where you prove to us, what type of artist you want to be? And to answer your question, if your target demographic are streamers now and you're 40 and you're trying to keep up with them, it's always going to be hollow. And it's always going to be like, how do you do, kids? What are y'? All. What y' all doing over here?
- [35:48]
A
Justin, you got everything.
- [35:49]
C
Well, you. You brought up Aiden Ross, which makes me think of the Make Them Cry, which is, I think, a song that we all really like. The production on that record, I think the rapping on that song.
- [36:03]
A
Are you talking about make them pay?
- [36:05]
C
Make them pay. Sorry, there's make them. There's make them cry. There's make them.
- [36:08]
A
There's five of them.
- [36:09]
B
Yeah.
- [36:09]
C
There's make them remember and then there's make them.
- [36:12]
A
They all sound the same, by the way.
- [36:13]
C
Make them. Make them take their headphones out. Make them pay.
- [36:20]
A
Right?
- [36:20]
C
Is that the one? Make them pay.
- [36:22]
A
Make them pay. Yeah.
- [36:23]
B
And ain't no passes for you, Crip walking. All of that dis talking, kiddo. Beat it. I'm supposed to be my brother.
- [36:29]
C
So he references Aiden Ross on that song. And at first I was like, oh, he did a stream with Aiden Ross. And at first I was like, okay, the Rick Ross diss on that line, that was. That was clever enough. You know, though, Rick Ross answering back on Instagram immediately was just, you know, much better then he. I think the best way to sum up Drake in the context of this world is what happens a few bars after that where he goes at DJ Khaled and he says, we can't even get a free Palestine, or they're waiting on a free Palestine. Then he rhymes it with, like, red, black, green.
- [37:17]
A
And then later, Big Booty Ebony.
- [37:19]
C
Yeah, Then he rhymes with Big Booty. And that's the thing. When he rhymes it with Big Booty, Ebony's, uh. Which is not a set of words I know, I think I should be saying on this podcast, but Drake said it first. Um, this is a man that really doesn't stand for anything beyond his ego. So even when he's saying Free Palestine on this record, he is saying it simply to get some shots off a DJ Khaled, who he's upset with for what? Like, for not being public enough about, like, his support for. I don't even know what he's upset about. Um, Drake almost is just an empty avatar for anything except for the Drake experience. This man actually stands for nothing.
- [38:06]
B
I mean, there were lines on this where he sends a shot At Kendrick, where he's just like, oh, white. White fan. He says something to the effect of, like, white fans only listen to you because they feel guilty. Or you'll say something like, y' all tried to tear me down because you can't. You can't handle, like, a Jewish man being on top or this or that. And to Justin's point, I'm like, you're saying all of these naughty things, but I'm like, if you really believed in any of this, why are you only bringing this up in the. In the terms of this beef where it's like, it like, yeah, Free Palestine. Yeah. Yes. Why aren't you just saying that in a song that does not have to do with how mad you are at with another grown man because he didn't take your side. If you really think that the whole industry either turned against you because you were Jewish or Kendrick fans, only some white Kendrick fans support him and the naughtiness of that. I was like, hey, you weren't complaining when those same white fans made you one of the most successful pop stars of all time.
- [39:15]
C
Charles. He only brings up his Jewish roots so we can get off a cheap punchline so they can not see me on top, like, on the mountaintop. Like, I do the Dew, right?
- [39:28]
B
He. The do the dew line, the Mountain Dew punchline. That's a perfect example. That's some Big Sean shit that we do not let.
- [39:38]
C
But specifically brings up the Jewish roots so he can make the. The Nazi. I'm saying all types of stuff I should not be saying on a podcast, but he. So he can make the Nazi punchline. Like, he's not making a statement. He's trying to get off, like, some cheap punch lines, right?
- [39:56]
A
And the Kendrick stuff, I just got to say, like, leave it alone. He should not have talked. I. I get maybe having some resentment for people you thought were friends and taking some shots at them. If you're going to take shots when you don't reference. What is it? The braids on this album. I'm sorry, but what is that doing? What is it? The braids. Even when I cut them, I could never fade. I mean, it's Drizzy Drake. What are we doing? It's been two years. And the Kendrick stuff, I just. You got your ass kicked. Move on. It's fine.
- [40:28]
B
You know, he's sending shots at, like, ASAP Rocky, questioning why Rihanna won't post his single. He's like, there's DJ Khaled bars and Ross bars, and it's like, he's going through a checklist of everybody who wronged him. And you do get to the end of the album and you wonder for the future of Drake, is there a future for him as rapper and pop star where the central spine of his narrative is not rooted in him being the underdog? Cuz I'm like, you're not the underdog. Like, Kendrick didn't destroy you. Like, technically, he destroyed you in terms of, like, lyrically and who had the most hits and you getting embarrassed at the super bowl and all of this. But I'm like, you're fine. You're still a millionaire. You're going to sign another lucrative deal. Everything will be fine with you. So there is a level of, like, first world problems where I'm like, yeah, I agree with you. Where I would like to see Drake. It was interesting to me on this record when he's talking about his father having cancer, because a few bars later he's talking about feeling like he has to raise his father. Like his father is more like his brother. I'm like, that's super fascinating. That string is just like, I want to hear that across this album. That's something that makes you special.
- [41:49]
A
There's another line in that same song where he says, I put the man in manipulation when I pay your rent, and that's an obligation to our attachment. Then I sprinkle in a little Mercedes and fashion. So it's like he's admitting to, like, using his wealth to essentially buy a relationship with a woman. Saying I put the man in manipulation to me is super interesting. That's much more interesting than you saying girls from Atlanta call me Santa on the very fucking next song, by the way. I'm just like. And so there's so many of these songs where to Justin's point about the production of, like, Make Him Pay and that sample, the I want to be free sample. That beat is so sick that there's so many good beats like that on this record. What's the one produced by Conductor near the end?
- [42:35]
C
Firm Friends. Firm Friends.
- [42:37]
A
And they get just wasted on all of these. Make them pay, make them whatever. I think the vast majority of them, except for the first track on the album, they're all in the same vein of just taking shots at the same people where I'm just like, these could have been really great songs. You're rapping like. There's moments where you're rapping great and there's great wordplay is on entendres. But the con, like, what you say does matter, you know, to a Certain extent, not always. But when you're going to be this lyrical, you can't be so redundant on the same beat, talking about the same people, talking about the same shots you took two years ago. It's just kind of like, yeah, I would have loved to love these songs. I would have loved to love this album. And I think I would have loved it a lot more and returned to it a lot more than I probably planned to. Had the content, the lyrical content be interesting or doesn't even have to be introspective. Just like say something, something. I don't know.
- [43:31]
B
It's just, even if you're not saying anything, perform it well. Like, we haven't talked that much about Maid of Honor. I'm like, maid of Honor is interesting for the production. And then every single time you approach one of these records, it's like, I think we've been saying this the whole podcast. They do sound like sketches. They do sound like first attempts that you didn't go. Instead of like re singing a hook, instead of like structuring a hook and making it tight. Like there's a reason why like Controller or One Dance were these international smashes. Because the structure, the lyrics, everything about them are perfect pop songs. And on like on so many points in this, I'm like, damn, you're getting close.
- [44:13]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [44:13]
B
But you are not. Like, you are not taking another swing at this.
- [44:17]
C
Yeah, I gotta talk about Maid of Honor because I spent probably way too much time with Maid of Honor because I find it to be incredibly baffling as an experience because I think that there is some legitimately interesting, catchy production on there.
- [44:35]
A
Yeah, all over it.
- [44:38]
C
Vocal. And I think like he tried a dance record before with. Honestly, never mind. I actually think the production on this record might be better than the production. And honestly, nevermind. Vocally, this is one of the worst experiences I've ever had listening to something Charles, you brought up the fact that he can't hit that. He's like struggling to find like the melody and can't hit the right notes. And he's like over reliant on Auto Tune in a way that's like. Doesn't even feel stylistic these days. Feels more like a crutch lyrically. This more than anything. More than all the whining on Iceman, more than anything, any of the crooning any of like the teenage emotions that he's feeling on Habibi. There are songs on this record that are so unbecoming for a 40 year old band. Cheetah Print Which I think a lot of people are singling out as a potential hit on this record.
- [45:40]
A
No, really?
- [45:41]
C
Yes, yes.
- [45:43]
A
That song is a. I get that some parts sound good. It is a wreck. Like structurally it is a mess.
- [45:48]
C
No, there's a, there's a Peggy. There's a Peggy Gao. Peggy Goo. I can't remember how to pronounce it, but sample on that. On the record. That sounds very good. Like the production is very good. It is, I find to be one of the most embarrassing songs that I had heard in a while. It cuts to the cha cha slide.
- [46:10]
B
I hate that part.
- [46:12]
C
With Sexyy Red doing the cha cha slide except, you know, a little more explicit. And that would have been like one of the worst songs that I had heard in a long time. Except like three songs later he's doing a song called bbw.
- [46:28]
B
Oh, I forgot and forgot about this.
- [46:31]
C
And I really like the production on BBW again. Another word that I should not be saying that I'm only saying because of Drake. But it's, it is absolutely insane. He's saying things like, if you're gonna bounce up, bounce up on me. I might need a new bed. And it's like, it's absolutely crazy that this is a 40 year old man with like at this point, a 9 year old kid, 8 year old kid. Come on.
- [47:05]
A
What is he doing with his mom on the record cover?
- [47:08]
C
With his mom on the record cover. This is insanity.
- [47:12]
B
This is hookah lounge only fans 40 year old in the club. Why don't you go home to your family ass Singing and raps in a way that to Justin's point, I find not just embarrassing, but there is a level of I think if I'm going to be real love, GNX love, not like us. I could get, I could get behind why Drake is upset where Kendrick made one of the biggest hits of his career, calling a man a pedophile. And do we know if Drake's a pedophile or not? No. Has anything come out about that? No. Basically people are running with, maybe you shouldn't have been texting Millie Bobby Brown like this. Or are you grooming women because we see you with women that are in there are 19, 20, 21, 22, not illegal. But there are moments where we're like, hey, as a society, we have had conversations about what does it mean in a power dynamic for a man that is that old, that wealthy to be seen with younger women. To me you do have to start wondering. I'm like, hey, I get if you feel like everybody tap Danced on your grave for stuff that wasn't true. But there's a lot of stuff that people were bringing up. There's a lot of women who have come forward who are saying, like, yeah, fuck Drake. And I was just like, you have a platform, use it. You keep throwing stones and hiding your hand. How much sympathy can I, like, have for you? I don't want to keep bringing up Kendrick, but because Drake brings him up so much on the record, I think I can. I think Mr. Morale is not a record that I enjoy, but is a record that I find interesting because I'm like, Kendrick is talking about his sex addiction. He's talking about what his father has meant to me, what meant to him, what fatherhood means to have a son. He is talking about all of these knotty issues. And I'm like, at no point on this record do I feel like Drake goes out of his way to do the same thing, which is just like, here's actually the ugly parts of me, the manipulation line that you said. And I'm like, all right, we'll impact that. Cuz that to me is at least interesting.
- [49:36]
A
The thing about it too, you have 43 songs to do it and you did it in literally one song. Like, how does it. At that point, it's like. I mean, even that's so interesting. Like, you would think it would just have to come out with that much content. I mean, how come. How long can you say nothing? You know, at some point you would think that it would just come out because obviously he's feeling real human emotions and you would think that would just come out in the lyrics naturally, but. And then that makes me just kind of. It just undermines the one time that he did do it that he just never, not even for a moment, did it again, which just. Again, you got 43 tracks to. To at least give us another song that's kind of like that, or just maybe a verse, but there's just nothing.
- [50:20]
B
Where do you think Draco's.
- [50:23]
A
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Because I've already seen people online being like, well, he didn't give in. You know, there's no hits on this album. He's saving that for his independent release because he's going to pull a Frank Ocean and so he's so, you know, there's that Cope kind of already coming from some. Well, actually, before we go, I got to. Justin told me he was perusing the. The Reddit subreddit for. For Drake.
- [50:48]
C
I was, I was.
- [50:49]
A
I'm very interested to see, hear what the narrative is there.
- [50:52]
C
I don't. I don't want to quote because I feel like these are very misguided people. I feel like these are people that are in a cult, and I don't want to pick on victims of a cult, but that cult is Drake fandom. Let me tell you. These people are eating off crumbs and they are obsessed with, you know, who they focus in on. This beef is a thing that I've learned, because there's no way that they can spin that he beat Kendrick. You know, they can always be like, well, UMG help Kendrick. There's like, you know, there's no way that they can really say anything about Rick Ross at this point because it's kind of like, you know, who cares? Like, Rick Ross is kind of Teflon in this whole situation. They have really zeroed in on the Aesop Rocky part. And there were a lot of comments to the. Haha, look how we got them. And they've made like, a meme out of. Have you guys watched any of the videos yet of any of these?
- [51:50]
B
No.
- [51:50]
A
No.
- [51:51]
C
It's very funny. You know, you mentioned when we were talking about, like, this glut of content and finding someone, like, just people, like the average person waiting for some hits to pop off. I was with somebody last night who was like, I was just gonna wait and see if he dropped a video. And I was like, well, buddy, let me tell you, I was 15 now. I thought it was 14. I told him 14. But the people on the Drake subreddit are really. They've made a meme out of the. Your baby mom ain't even post a single. Hey, where's she at? Where's. And that. They. They are just posting that a lot. And they.
- [52:32]
A
So they like the shots. They like the.
- [52:34]
C
They like it. They. They find introspection here. And I think, like, maybe if what you've been primed for is the type of introspection that Drake's been giving since Take Care, then this actually rises to that level, I suppose. But it's really like a dark place. And Cole, I thought about just like reading through some of the quotes on there, but like, yeah, we got to get. We got to pull these people out of the cult. We can't be. We can't be throwing. Throwing dirt on them.
- [53:08]
A
Yeah. I mean, but yeah, Justin, to your question, I do wonder where he goes, because he does seem to be serving that audience as we talked about. There is. I don't know, it'll be interesting to See what hits surface from this album. I think we talked about Janice being a potential one. Is there any other songs from the album you guys feel like is are going to be contention for Song of the Summer or anything like that? You think so? I. I like Shebang. I liked it more on the first day or so. It kind of falls flat after like a minute and a half, unfortunately. And it sounds clearly like Quavo wrote it, but I like that song. I don't know if it's going to go off like that, though.
- [53:48]
B
I don't know if there's a Song of the Summer on any of these projects. There will obviously be hits to me, what I hope for is, I'm like, if I'm. As a fan of Drake and what he's done, I think you can't take away the classic records he had. He has what he's done for music, how he's changed music, his influence. You cannot take that away. And I do get that. Like, yeah, you were backed into a corner where there's a reason Iceman kept getting pushed back. And the rollout was so wonky and the narrative is so just all over the place because I do feel like, how do you address what you went through? You got embarrassed in a way that most celebrities just do not get embarrassed anymore, because there's not really celebrities anymore. So I do have a little bit of grace in terms of just like, yeah, this was the strategy you went with. But now that this is all out of the way, now that you've gotten it all out of your system, whatever
- [54:46]
A
comes next, it can't be this again.
- [54:50]
B
It can't be this. It just can't.
- [54:52]
A
Which is interesting.
- [54:53]
B
I'm.
- [54:54]
A
We'll see what happens next. I mean, history would seem to point to him just keep doing the same thing. But I hope that's not the case. But it will be interesting. And I do. I hope he's independent. I think that that would be really cool. I do wonder if he's gonna pull the Taylor Swift thing and re record some of his old albums. Do you think that's a possibility? Oh, God.
- [55:12]
B
Oh, don't even put that.
- [55:14]
C
Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
- [55:16]
B
Can you. Can you imagine Drake where he is at, vocally trying to redo a controller? Can you imagine him rewrapping Hotline Bling? It's just nightmare shit. Nightmare fuel.
- [55:32]
A
All right, well, this is great. Thank you guys for coming on. I'm very happy to get this episode recorded so I can never listen to these albums again.
- [55:41]
B
Cool.
- [55:42]
A
I will probably listen to Janice.
- [55:43]
B
I will. Janice is in my yearly playlist already. I'm like, hey, credit. Where's Credit's due? You did get one Drake. Like, this is. Hey, it's a hit. It's a. I love it.
- [55:54]
C
Question for you guys. What are you guys gonna do for a psychic cleanse after this? What are you listening to after spending 72 hours listening to two and a half hours of Drake music? Longer than the movie Goodfellas of Bertha
- [56:07]
B
Drake, let's get some ayahuasca. Let's go for a walk. No music. Let me listen to the birds and the trees. Cause as someone who also feels like they're getting old, I'm just like, yeah, I can't be driving around in my whip to Drake. Yeah, we can't do that. That's too much light skin emo ness for to endure.
- [56:29]
A
I'm going back to Daft Punk.
- [56:30]
B
Hell yeah.
- [56:31]
A
Finish the season strong. I'm going to finish it by celebrating a duo that put a lot of thought and intention to every aspect of their career, who only made four solo albums, and every one of them is perfect. So that season is going to resume next week with the episode on Human after all. And then we're going to do three episodes on Random Access Memories.
- [56:53]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [56:54]
A
And then, Charles, you will be back on the pod to do part two of our Daft Punk Last Song Standing.
- [56:59]
B
Let's go.
- [57:01]
A
And then we're not going to reveal it yet. But then last song season. Last. Last Long Standing season. What are we on now? Five. Is this six?
- [57:10]
B
We've done Kendrick. Kendrick, Frank Ocean.
- [57:15]
C
Season five.
- [57:16]
A
Yeah. Season five. Season five of Last Long Standing Summer. All right, guys. Appreciate it.
- [57:21]
B
Appreciate you.