J.I.D. dissects 'God Does Like Ugly' track by track

Summary

Dissect Podcast: J.I.D. Dissects "God Does Like Ugly" Track-by-Track

Host: Cole Cuchna
Guest: JID
Date: December 16, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Dissect host Cole Cuchna sits down with Grammy-nominated rapper JID to delve deeply into his new album, God Does Like Ugly. They break down the meaning, lyrics, production, and personal stories behind several key tracks, revealing the album’s themes around individuality, struggle, cycles, and the shifting definitions of "ugly" and "beautiful." This episode is rich with musical analysis, wordplay explanations, and insightful discussions about family, community, faith, and overcoming adversity.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

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The Album Title and Theme

• Origin of Title: Inspired by JID’s grandmother, who once said, “If God's letting that happen, he got must like ugly or something like that.” (02:41)
  • JID explains how flipping the commonly heard “God doesn’t like ugly” became a framework for the album’s themes.
  • Quote: “Just her being creative enough to flip that on its head...it kind of sent me for a loop.” — JID [02:41]
• Meaning of "Ugly":
  • For JID, "ugly" is about perception, embracing individuality, and owning what makes you different—what outsiders may call ugly. (04:54)
  • Quote: “It’s really just your own perception... it's kind of individuality...being whatever you are, even if it stands outside the norms.” — JID [05:10]
• Album’s Grit and Darkness:
  • JID intentionally created a more gritty, unpolished, and emotionally dark album compared to his previous polished work, The Forever Story. (08:13)
  • Quote: “I just wanted to feel like a constant dark cloud until damn near the end.” — JID [08:13]

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Track 1: "You Ugly" – Setting the Stage

• Westside Gunn’s Narration:
  • Westside Gunn curates the intro, subverting "ugly" by using it as a term of endearment and celebration. (06:16)
  • The track intentionally lacks samples after legal hurdles, emphasizing production crafted for the album’s tone. (07:18)
• Directness of Writing:
  • JID aimed for more overt, direct wordplay and storytelling, contrasting with the dense metaphors in his earlier work. (07:19)
• Gospel Elements:
  • The first verse transitions into a gospel bridge, underscoring the album’s interplay of darkness and hope. (08:33)
  • Memorable lyrics performed live:

    “Tears in my eyes I know
    Tomorrow will bring sunny skies and
    I will look back and smile
    Cause it’s just a moment in time…” — JID [08:48]

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Family Ties and Recurring Themes

• Brother’s Story:
  • JID’s older brother, a recurring figure on multiple tracks, is a thematic touchstone for exploring cycles of incarceration, hope, and redemption. (12:35)
  • Quote: “All of y'all in there with them, especially like my mother…So God does like ugly, it's just his story as well.” — JID [12:46]
  • “Glory” is wholly dedicated to this brother’s narrative and struggles.
• Empathy for Family:
  • The album reflects on how family offers a deeper perspective beyond surface judgments. (15:05)

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Bars, Wordplay, and Easter Eggs

• Lewis & Clark / Carl Lewis Bar:
  • Complex puns connecting track and field references to JID’s own family—his father and brother share the name Carl Lewis. (16:03)
  • Quote: “I do this for family, right?...I'm glad you caught that.” — JID [16:18], [16:29]
• Fibonacci Sequence Bar:
  • Playful numeric wordplay (“I’m top five, pop the Glock two times might be top three and I don’t know the Fibonacci sequence”), using 5, 2, and 3 (all Fibonacci numbers but out of order). (16:50)
  • Quote: “I flip stuff all the time. I always say it one way and I'll say it back.” — JID [17:13]
• Everything is Intentional:
  • JID confirms obsessive attention to detail in his lyrics, intentionally planting wordplay and hidden references for attentive listeners. (17:35)

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Production Stories & Sample Clearances

• "Glory" and the Memphis Choir Sample:
  • Deep emotional connection: JID fought for a gospel choir sample, even enlisting his mother to convince the original arranger’s daughter to clear it after initially being denied. (18:12)
  • The conversation led to the sample being cleared, after the rights-holder researched JID’s music and felt his intention. She prayed over him, affirming the album’s spiritual direction. (19:57)
  • “She said, this project’s going to be huge...she just wanted to pray over me and my team.” — JID [19:57]
• Industry Satire with Skits:
  • A humorous “zoom call” skit follows the “Glory” beat switch, parodying how industry accolades bring potential problems (“more money, more problems”). (21:57)
• Historical Samples on "Work":
  • Song samples a 1948 prison work song sung by Black men in Mississippi—tying in the themes of resilience amid forced labor, mirroring the broader Black American struggle. (26:40)
  • Quote: "Even if you didn't hear it all the way, you could kind of feel it." — JID [27:08]

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Layers of Meaning in Specific Lines

• "Work" – The 1952 Dodge Drive Bar:
  • Wordplay connecting civil rights history (Montgomery bus boycotts), Atlanta’s Interstate 85, vintage car performance, and JID’s ambition.
  • Quote: “You couldn’t even stop my drive if it were 1955 and I’m on 85 doin’ 95 in a 1952 Dodge.” — JID [28:24]
  • JID confirms the intention, explaining the research and history behind the details. (30:06–31:25)

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Community, Violence, and Empathy

• "Community" — Low-Income Living and Violence:
  • JID explores how cycles of poverty and violence affect Black communities, especially in Atlanta, weaving imagery of apartment complexes and generational struggle. (33:46)
  • Beautifully frames hardship through poetic lines:

    “The rain couldn’t understand it. The pain made them understand. The sun tried to understand. The gun made me understand.” — JID [31:45]

• Bob the Builder Line:
  • Uses children’s TV to highlight gentrification and displacement, immediately followed by a commentary on children dying in global and local conflicts. (36:18)
  • Quote: “I’ll put a bullet in Bob the fuckin’ builder before they try to kick us out the building. What about the children?” — JID [36:18]

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Legendary Features and Song Construction

• Clips Feature and Generational Batons:
  • JID crafts his verse to pass off seamlessly to Clipse, specifically requesting both Pusha T and Malice, reflecting his Virginia college experience and respect for their legacy. (37:56)
  • Malice’s verse is described as perfection, and JID relishes the chance to engage legends authentically. (39:06)
• Importance of Authenticity:
  • JID wants his stories to inspire those with similar upbringings, “I rap like I’m trying to get the slaves free.” (41:36)

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Empathy for "Thugs" and Self-Reflection

• "GS" — The Car Break-In Story:
  • JID flips the classic “angry rapper gets robbed” story, showing empathy for the person who broke into his car, reflecting on systems that lead to such acts, and connecting with his own youthful mistakes. (43:21)
  • Quote: “If I got killed by, robbed and killed by a black man... first question I asked: what did he go through all his life? What the fuck did he deal with?” — JID [43:53]

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Melodic Act of the Album

• R&B Stretch:
  • JID intentionally places a batch of melodic, R&B-influenced tracks together as a contrast to his denser, more rap-heavy work. He praises his vocal teacher and says the choice is selfish and deliberate. (48:23–49:41)
• Performance and Grammy Nominations:
  • “Wholeheartedly,” featuring Ty Dolla $ign and 6lack, is the oldest song on the album and nominated for Best Melodic Rap Song at the Grammys. (51:29)
  • The stretch marks a mood switch and reflects JID’s love for vocal and genre-blending music.

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Act 3: Complex Storytelling

• "McAfee":
  • A rapid-fire narrative with numerous flows, allegories, and direct storytelling, painting vignettes of Atlanta life, both dark and resilient. (52:43–56:12)

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Cycles and Resolution: "Of Blue" and "K Word"

• Cycles as a Core Theme:
  • "Of Blue" references Pastor Troy’s song “Vice Versa,” using cycles of good/evil, faith, and renewal as narrative devices.
  • Quote: “This whole song is a callback...but at the end of the song, literally the last words, I say, 'I think I found it.' And that place is love.” — JID [58:51]
• Redemption and Karma:
  • On "K Word," karma is personified as a woman, but the focus is on good karma that comes from acting with integrity. The outro (by Jessie Reyez) warns against vengeance and urges faith in a higher power. (64:41)
  • Quote from Jessie Reyez (translation): “Be careful with revenge. You don't have to go and collect from everyone and their mother. God takes care of it. Have faith that God takes care of it.” [64:40]
  • The cycle can end: “If I do it right, then I can end the cycle here tonight / Cause I saw the light.” — JID [65:12]
• Final Message:
  • JID encourages listeners to be themselves, live with good intentions, and eschew the herd mentality. (65:41)
  • Quote: "Live your life with your best intentions...just see the world how you see it. Don't try to be like anybody else." — JID [66:39]

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On Growth and the Future

• JID shares that his next body of work will reflect his ongoing growth as an artist, emphasizing always “unlearning and relearning” to push creative boundaries. (66:52, 68:01)
• Quote: "I'm in love with this album right now...still growing. I feel like even today, I'm still hearing things I wrote." — JID [67:59]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (With Timestamps)

• On Intention:
  “Every single thing is intentional...the fact that you caught little stuff like that, it just means like, I'm doing it right.” — JID [17:35]
• On Community and Empathy:
  “If I got killed by, robbed and killed by a black man...first question I asked: what did he go through all his life?” — JID [43:53]
• On Cycles and Redemption:
  “If I do it right, then I can end the cycle here tonight / Cause I saw the light.” — JID [65:12]
• On Artistic Growth:
  “I'm in love with this album right now...it's still growing. I feel like even today, I'm still hearing things I wrote.” — JID [67:59]
• On Legacy:
  “Being from the South, I rap like I’m trying to get the slaves free.” — JID [41:36]

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Notable Timestamps

• 02:41 – Origin of Album Title
• 05:10 – Defining "Ugly"
• 07:19 – Approach to Direct Writing
• 12:35 – Brother’s Role in Album
• 16:03–17:35 – Lewis & Clark / Fibonacci Bars
• 18:12–19:57 – Story Behind "Glory" Sample
• 21:57 – Meaning of the "Zoom Call" Skit
• 26:40–27:52 – Prison Work Song Sample on "Work"
• 28:24–31:25 – Deconstruction of the "1952 Dodge" Bar
• 33:46–41:36 – Community, Violence, and Bob the Builder Line
• 43:21–47:30 – The Car Break-In and Empathy
• 48:23–51:41 – Melodic Stretch: Vocal Classes & Songwriting Process
• 52:43–56:12 – “McAfee” and Atlanta Stories
• 58:51–65:12 – Cycles, Redemption, and the Role of Karma

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Conclusion

JID’s God Does Like Ugly is a layered, deliberate, and emotionally charged album that embraces the complexity of personal “ugliness,” cycles of hardship, and the quest for redemption. Through storytelling, intricate wordplay, and varied musical approaches, JID challenges listeners to accept themselves, empathize with others, and strive for authenticity and growth. As always, Dissect brings out the intricacies that make the album a living document, open for interpretation and discovery on every listen.

Transcript

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, then I gotta ask you about the Fibonacci line.

[JID]

I'm top five, pop the Glock two times, I be top three and don't know the Fibonacci sequence. Put the numbers together. Some gotta make sense.

[Cole Kushna]

Was it intentional that 5, 2, and 3 are Fibonacci numbers but in the wrong order?

[JID]

What's her name? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did it back. I did it because if you listen to my music, I flip stuff all the time. I always say it one way and I'll say it back.

[Cole Kushna]

Carl Lewis. Lewis and Clark. Yeah.

[JID]

You feel me? So with the Fibonacci, I was like, somebody's going to catch this. Somebody knows it's called. It's the golden rule or something like that. I always mess up.

[Cole Kushna]

Golden mean.

[JID]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Everyone out there, every single thing is. That's what I'm saying.

[JID]

I'm such a jittery person, as you probably think. But the fact that you caught little stuff like that, it just means like, I'm doing it right.

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[JID]

Savory and delicious they are.

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[Cole Kushna]

Oh, yeah.

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[Cole Kushna]

Welcome, everyone, to a special episode of Dissect. I'm your host, Cole Kushna. Today we're very honored to have Jid in the building to dissect his brand new Grammy nominated album. God does like ugly. Jin, thanks for being on Dissect.

[JID]

Thanks for having me, bro.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, yeah. Congratulations on the Grammy nod. How'd it feel?

[JID]

It was cool. Just. That is like actually mine. You know what I'm saying? My nomination opposed to like other projects I've been involved in. So it's a blessed feeling, you know what I'm saying? Having like a group of your peers say, this is what you guys need to listen to, or whatever the case may be.

God does like ugly. And I could tell living check to check, nigga, check the mail. Another bill pimp my brother ain't even get no bell.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, so I want to get into as much as the album as we can. I always like to start with the album title. I know there's a story about your grandma, the origin of the title, but. So maybe for those that haven't heard that yet, you can relay that story. But I'm also interested about how this kind of off the cuff thing that she said to you developed into what feels like the thematic framework of the entire album.

[JID]

Yeah. So initially, my grandmother don't know what, I don't know exactly what the occurrence was going on in the world, but I just remember her saying, if God's letting that happen, he got most like, ugly or something like that. Something in that regard. And it just stuck with me, you know what I'm saying? Because I'm used to hearing the term God doesn't. You know what I'm saying? So just her being creative enough to just flip that on his head and it kind of sent me for a loop. This is around 2019, before she passed. And it stuck with me all those years just where working on the music and trying to find something around that that just felt authentic to the title. Because the title wasn't gonna change.

[Cole Kushna]

Right.

[JID]

All the music, even in the creation of it, bro, it's not the album that I. It didn't come together all the way I thought it did. I had a lot of different samples and stuff that didn't get cleared and just. But it worked out. It turned out to be like a project that I love. I, I, that's the only reason I put it out, is because I like it. I wasn't bashing it off opinions of anybody for the most part, besides, like my team and stuff like that. But I'm sorry, you know, it's show day. Everybody calling like, you trying to get in the LA show. That's actually absol too.

[Cole Kushna]

Oh, sick.

[JID]

Hilarious enough. Just more selfishly, like saying, okay, this is what I think the wave is and this is how I feel about the music. And I'm not even sure, like, people would be. It's an ugly project. It was meant to be like, right. A little uncomfortable in some spaces.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, there's a lot. I mean, just compared to your last work and forever Story. There's a lot. It feels more gritty. Feels like more. You're. I mean, in the opening line, we'll talk about. You're at the depths of hell as the first line on the. You know, there's this really kind of grit to it. I'm wondering. The idea of what. What is Ugly? Seems like to be one of the central questions of the album. How one defines ugly, what the world considers ugly. So I guess, like, as we're talking about the album title, I mean, what does Ugly mean to you in terms of this project?

[JID]

Yeah, in terms of this project is really just your own perception. It's not like being a part of the crowd, you know what I'm saying? That's kind of what it is. It's kind of individuality. And however you see it. And, like, it could be like a one man trash, another man's treasure type situation.

[Cole Kushna]

Right.

[JID]

But in my mind, it just leans right into just like being whatever you are, even if it stands outside of the norms of whatever you may see that as. So that's kind of where, like, I stood with the project.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, it's interesting. We'll talk about Pastor Troy's Vice Versa. But it feels like this idea of how outsiders, what outsiders call ugly, and almost taking pride in ugliness because maybe we can get into the first track. You literally say you Ugly is the title of the first track. And then we hear Westside Gun's voice is the first thing we hear on that. And he right away, like, redefines ugly. He's calling his girl ugly. He's calling his shoes ugly. And like, a positive way.

[JID]

Flyway.

[Cole Kushna]

Right.

[JID]

My Ugly.

[Cole Kushna]

Did west side have a verse or did you always just imagine him as this kind of, like, orator narrator?

[JID]

We started off with him finding some production. I wanted him to curate the song specifically. And he did that amazingly, you know what I'm saying? Came through with the production and the words he was saying. So I really didn't need a verse, but I wasn't opposed to it because I love when he raps. But for the most part, it was really him setting the stage for it. And we went through a bunch of different channels with production because, like, samples and all that stuff. And we got to a place where there's no samples on that record specifically. And then just making it kind of like a jump scare in the middle of the record when you have, like, oh, west side. I'm rapping, ceiling challenge, showing above my peers. And then you have this beautiful melodic breakdown. The words kind of describing the feelings that you just heard a little bit. But it's preparing you for a whole nother journey on the. The back half of it.

[Cole Kushna]

Right.

[JID]

But still going with the same intentions and lines. Just explaining my narrative and explaining how I felt. Sometimes people try to like. I don't know. I don't know what people try to do, but I wasn't trying to like, go too far over your head with the writing or just kind of trying to be more direct. There's a couple of things, metaphors and all that stuff. It's going to be there, but it was more a direct approach to it. So if you listen to that, if you listen to the project with that thought of mine, it's just like directly telling you what it is. It kind of gives you more of an easiness when you listen into it, opposed to like Forever Story. I'm barring you up, giving you all type of similes, metaphors, different stories, and it's all polished. That was the thing about Forever Story. I wanted to make it feel polished and beautiful, bright, you know what I'm saying? You get in this story, you get clouds and fucking stars and all the rainbows and shit.

[Cole Kushna]

Right, right.

[JID]

But on this one, I just wanted to feel like a constant dark cloud until damn near the end.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, yeah. I like how that first verse goes into the gospel bridge and you're kind of getting. It feels like you're setting up the world of the album, like where things might be headed. You're kind of. It's like the. The sun peeking through the clouds for.

[JID]

A moment and then literally the words. What you say is literally, tomorrow will bring sunny, sunny skies well, I. I said talking about crying.

[Cole Kushna]

Dear Lord.

[JID]

I think about community leaders.

[Cole Kushna]

There's tears in my eyes I know.

[JID]

Tears in my eyes I know Tomorrow will bring sunny skies and I will look back and smile Cuz it's just a moment in time Know I've been.

Killing this for years it took a silly challenge to show them above my peers these tears.

In my eyes I.

[Nordstrom Ad Voice]

Know.

[JID]

That tomorrow will bring sunny skies.

[Cole Kushna]

So that kind of theme of dark and light, I feel like it runs throughout the entire project. And you kind of. I love the opening line of the project where you say, lie from the depths of hell. So you get this dark imagery, but right away with angel wings that have yet to flail, which I feel like kind of spells out a lot of what the project is talking about. Kind of people coming from these darker places, the potential. They're born pure, born with angel Wings just not giving the opportunities or their circumstances, not allowing them to. To fully blossom into their potential. And I love that second line. And fans argue about record sales like they recorded exact themselves. Just like that's just hilarious. Right? Well, the rhyme schemes are great, by the way.

[JID]

Thank you.

Live from the depths of hell with angel wings that have yet to flail. And fans argue about record like they record execs themselves. It's like we all under spell and still. I hope this message reaches you.

[Cole Kushna]

Well, what is the idea? Like we're focused on the wrong thing.

[JID]

Yeah. 100. That's all it was. Art. It's like we sell art, but at the same time, it's like priceless, you know what I'm saying? The places that it come from. If it's natural and it's organic and beautiful, like if the art makes you feel something, I don't think the consumption or the people, that's. If it's the majority thing, I don't think that's her mentality, you know what I'm saying? And I feel like we've been kind of plagued by that in today's age and stuff like that. So I just wanted to speak to that. But not like diss fans, you know what I'm saying? Not diss them, but also it's like we kind of missing the ball a little bit on what this music could be or the medicine it provides, you know what I'm saying? To some people, and it's medicine to me. So I don't think just the price on it. The numbers and stuff is cool. It's nice when you got the accolades. I would love. I want the biggest accolades in the world. You know what I'm saying? Not saying I don't. I care about. I'm not a numbers guy. But of course, if you about to have a number one on Billboard or you doing, you're gonna lean into it. And there's nothing wrong with that, but it can't be the bottom line, you know what I'm saying? It can't be the talking point of if Mick Jenkins had one of the best projects of the year, I think. You know what I'm saying? I think stuff like that is outside of the. That kind of devalues what we do a little bit. Yeah, because like I said, like, one of my favorite projects this year. I'm not sure how many people heard it, but the Mick Jenkins album is something I just been living with and just loving it because he's just one of those type of artists that Pull that out of you. And it wasn't even like the happiest feelings. It was kind of like, made you feel a little bit aggressive, but to that point. Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. Okay, so. So in the opening verse as well, you introduce your older brother, who feels like a recurring character in the album. Yeah, I guess for those not familiar with the story, maybe convey that if you're comfortable with that. And also, like, why? Because he comes up on this song, comes up on Glory. So I guess. How. How, like, why did you want to use your brother's story? Is there any kind of. Kind of thematic symbolism that you thought his story could represent?

[JID]

Another Bill pimp. My brother ain't getting no bell on his third strike. And if he served life, them crackers probably like, that serves you right. Too real just gave me chill through my life.

This is my soul. I'm. I'm the youngest of seven, but I'm detached by a bunch of years. I feel like my brother's almost. Almost 50, but he been in jail, like, my whole life, you know what I'm saying? In and out. And before this project was another time he went back to jail. So I'm dealing with that and writing the album. He's heavy on my mind. And that was just kind of like the anger and the exhaustion, the stress, like my family's been dealing with. Cause once you got, like a family member in jail, it's kind of like all of y' all in them. Yeah, especially like my mother, so. And that's her. I have a blended family, so that's her son with her ex husband. And I just see the stress and everything she go through dealing with that, and it makes me expressive of it. Even if I'm not telling you, like, the exact. Throughout my timeline, you. You. You probably understand what my brother did through my. My album, my discography. I talk about him every single album but this one specifically. Just because he went back into jail and he didn't get a bail for it. He's been sitting, waiting for three, four years on bail since I dropped the last project. Because if you see the Smigon video, he was in there, I'm saying. And then this three years later, and he's still dealing with what he dealing with. So it would just take me to a place of just questions. Think about his mind state, my mother's mindset, my parents. A lot of things come. A rush of emotions, waterfall of emotions. But I just try to give him love and just like, talk through his. Like, through his life, through my eyes. The way I see it. It's kind of like a. Like a action packed, like, movie, you know what I'm saying? The stories that I hear about him, the conversation we've had, him being one of the first people I've ever seen rap, it just adds a lot to it. So God does like ugly. It's just his story as well. That's why I bring him up in the first two songs. And I refer to him throughout the album all the time. The glory is the whole song. Glory is about him, okay. From top to bottom, the person that I'm talking about got baptized and da da da. All of this. I'm talking about him. And then I just bring it back to the end when I say like, and I really let you know it's him. My brother back inside of cell.

[Cole Kushna]

But yeah, yeah, I think. I mean, it's powerful as a listener because it's like, you know, with family members, it's like you're able to see more than their mistakes. You know, like sometimes when you're looking just from a distance at someone and you just see mistakes they made, but, you know, with family, it's like you see them far beyond those mistakes. Okay, so then we already talked about the gospel bridge. And then verse two, you issue somewhat of a lyrical challenge, so I got to take you up on that. You say you ask about catching a bar, so I got to ask you if I got it right. So the bar is you say jid and friends playing Mario Kart looking at my big brother back in that mid and moving around the city like Lewis and Clark. Hop out the car, turn to Carl.

[JID]

Lewis thinking bad to be in little badass kids Jit and friends playing Mario Kart looking at my big brother bagging at mid moving around the city like Lewis and Clark.

How about the car turned to Carl Lewis?

If you called that bar, you understand why I do this. You don't know me if he knew me when I was little, rude little.

[Cole Kushna]

Piece of r. If you caught that bar, you understand why I do this. So great wordplay with the Lewis and Clark. Carl Lewis being this Olympic athlete.

[JID]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Runs track.

[JID]

That's my dad name, though.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, that's. Yeah, there it is. Father's name, Carl Lewis root. And then do you have an older brother named Carl, too?

[JID]

Yep.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, so the bar is essentially like, I do this for family, right?

[JID]

Yeah, I was a sprint. Yeah. I'm glad you caught that.

[Cole Kushna]

That's sick. Okay. And then you say you don't know me if you know me since little root, which Was your childhood nickname, right?

[JID]

That's my last name.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay. Right.

[JID]

So they always call me Little Root.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay.

[JID]

All right.

[Cole Kushna]

Lyrical challenge. Okay. I got it right.

[JID]

I love that.

I love that.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, then I gotta ask you about the Fibonacci line.

[JID]

I'm sticking to it. Can't nobody stop me. I'm top five. Pop the Glock two times, not be top three and don't know the Fibonacci sequence. Put the numbers together. Some gotta make sense. Put some dis in his beautiful.

[Cole Kushna]

You say I'm top five, pop the clock two times might be top three and I don't know the Fibonacci sequence. Put the numbers together and something's got to make sense. So was it intentional that 5, 2, and 3 are Fibonacci numbers but in the wrong.

[JID]

What's the name? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did it backwards. If you listen to my music, I flip stuff all the time. I always say it one way and I'll say it back.

[Cole Kushna]

Carl Lewis. Lewis and Clark. Yeah.

[JID]

You feel me? So with the Fibonacci, I was like, somebody's going to catch this. Somebody knows. It's called the golden rule or something like that.

[Cole Kushna]

I always go to mean, yeah, that was sick. Okay, cool. It's intentional. Everyone out there, it's.

[JID]

Every single thing is intentional. I know.

[Cole Kushna]

That's what I'm saying.

[JID]

I'm such a jittery person, as you probably think. But the fact that you caught little stuff like that, it just means, like, I'm doing it right.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's. There's some of us that are really paying attention. I love that kind of shit. It's my favorite stuff.

[JID]

Thanks.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, so then let's get into Glory. One of my favorite songs on the. On the entire project.

[JID]

Early in the morning Got sun in my eyes Giving glory to God I'm alert and alive I ain't even sleep. I've been working. I'm tired. But it's not going to deter my assignment at the Lord.

[Cole Kushna]

Sample is great. I know there's a pretty interesting, compelling story around the production. I don't know if you want to share that.

[JID]

Yeah, just essentially, when I got the production, we started going through the clearing process after I had the song done, and it was a very obscure sample from a choir from Memphis, Tennessee, in. They denied it initially. I had custom words and stuff, and I understand why they denied the sample at first, but just being the type of person I am, growing up the way I am, I did. I wanted to go a little bit further you know what I'm saying? To try and get clear and show the people that like the type of man I am. So I asked, can we speak? I got my mother on the phone because she's just like the most beautiful southern lady. Like she could. She just got. She swag like she know how to speak and she knows how to carry herself. And it's a beautiful southern lady, church, God fearing lady. And that's what she instilled in me. So I just wanted the person on the other end of it to understand that sentiment. And the person who cleared it was very close with the sample because her father arranged the original choir. However they sang that, they arranged that and she's very close to it. So got on the phone, kind of gave her the idea of the type of people we are. Spoke about my faith, spoke to my mother, said, I'll make the changes, whatever needs to be. And we did it. And they cleared it. But before they cleared it, they said, we want to speak to you guys one more time. I'm like, cool. And when we spoke, she says they cleared it and they did some research on me. Listen to my music, listen to Forever Stories at the time. So if you listen to the album, you get to know me. It's like, oh, it's not stick. You know what I'm saying? Great writing, some real life experience. And they enjoyed it specifically, like Swing on and stuff like that.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay.

[JID]

Which is a negro spiritual. Like it's some. Something that's really close to me. So her specifically liking these records. Said she just wanted to pray over me and my team and the family and stuff. Because using that sample specifically verbatim, she said, I'm going into a spiritual battle, spiritual warfare in the industry that doesn't like lean towards that, you know what I'm saying? It's more dark if you would say, in the industry. So when she said it, it kind of like threw me for a loop. I'm like, whoa. Like you understand, like it's something special about it. And she spoke. All this grant, all this stuff that's happening right now, she spoke, she said, this project is going to be huge. It's going to be one of the biggest works in. I mean, it's kind of crazy like that that happened like that. And it's just really just based in faith. And we got together and you know, more than two or three people gathered. That's. That's church. That's what they say in the Bible or whatever. That's like powerful right there.

[Cole Kushna]

So are they saying I can't make out what they're saying. Do you. Do you know what they're saying in the sample?

[JID]

No, sir.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, I was trying to. Listening hard, I was trying to. Yeah, I couldn't make it out, but.

[JID]

It'S a feeling there. Yeah, they're saying glory. Of course.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay. Right.

[JID]

They're saying glory, but, yeah, it's just amazing. I don't even know.

[Cole Kushna]

You guys got some mileage out of it, too. The way the production tweaks with, like, the beat switch, and it goes deeper and, like. That's so sick.

[JID]

It's like three levels to it. Yeah. It starts off how it starts. The second level, you get a little bit darker, and by the time you're at the end of the song, it's just giving you the pure intention, the grit, the. The fight through it. You know what I'm saying?

Odds against me I'm against the odds Trying to get even See the evil in my eyes Vengeance is the Lord so I leave it up to God but if he don't move forward I'mma get me mine as you cleaning out your closet Interesting.

[Cole Kushna]

The zoom call. I was wondering the context around that zoom call. It feels a little like rant. Not random, but, like. It's just, like. Comes out of nowhere. But then it, like, cues up the beat switch. It's like a cool contrast. But I was wondering, like, just the purpose of that zoom call as a skit.

[JID]

So if you listen to it, it sounds like somebody that would represent something from the business side of the music business. And that. That was kind of funny to me because it was. It represents being kind of dark. Like, we're about to get, like. You know what I'm saying? That money hungry.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay. That was okay.

[JID]

Yeah, we can hear you now. Go ahead, Victoria.

Hey, guys. Hey, Jay. Just getting back from a meeting.

[Cole Kushna]

The numbers are looking great, and we're.

[JID]

About to Yap, yap, yap. Look, the numbers and all of that stuff, I just thought it was a funny thing leading to the last verse. Cause it's giving you. It's positive. But at the same time, if you know the industry and how things go and stuff, it could be like, oh, this could be a horrible thing. All the money's coming, so it means, like, more money, more problems type shit. I was thinking about it in that realm, okay. And like I said, I wasn't trying to be too metaphorical. And on this album, I'm literally. If you listen to the words, you understand what I'm getting. I'm not trying to like, beat you over the head. Like the. I'm from the south, so even the way I speak, it has to be direct, you know what I'm saying? Because of the dialogue and the way we use words and stuff like that, you might understand it if I tried to go over. Over the top, so.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The final verse has one of my favorite lines on the project, where you say, open up the Bible and read a chapter. I'm trying to free the shackles my brother back inside a cell so I just said a prayer and the garden of Eden say he couldn't help but.

[JID]

Eat the apple Matter, whatever. So meet the pastor, open the Bible up and read a chapter I'm trying to free the shackles my brother back inside of cell so I just said a prayer in the Garden of Eden say he couldn't help but eat the apple.

[Cole Kushna]

Even after all, contextualizing your brother's story, but then tying it to the story of humanity, like, was really powerful. I don't know what the. I don't even break down some of the intention behind that one.

[JID]

So, you know, Adam and Eve did temptation, right? Essentially. So whatever his vices are or whatever he said, he couldn't help it. Like, whatever he did. And I'm not gonna go into detail, but he couldn't change that, you know what I'm saying? It's just innately who he is as a human. Like, I don't know if you take that as bad or good, but I just wrote it to speak truth, opposed to, like, whatever, however anybody would feel. But I just know the type of man he is, and he, like, is no bs, you know what I'm saying? So when. When I spoke to him about whatever occurred, you know what I'm saying? His sentiment was like, bro, I couldn't even. And it wasn't like, too, like, crazy crazy. He's like, bro, that had to go. I had to run that. You know what I'm saying? I had to do what I had to do. And that's literally me bringing that Bible in actual real life and kind of bring them in so everybody could get where I was going with it. Like I said, it's just very simple. But I just think it's a swag. A way to bring them, like, both together with the writing and stuff, because I try to unlearn and relearn, like, different writing techniques, you know what I'm saying? I don't want to just be the same type of rapper that you say a bar, and it's like, oh, this Is like. You know what I'm saying? When they use like, I hate that. You know what I'm saying? And I try to, like, steer away from that. That's why that line. I don't even know what you would consider that. You know what I'm saying? The writing style of that.

[Cole Kushna]

Right.

[JID]

But that's why it came off like that. I just think it's like, good writing.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[JID]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, so we get the pastor interspersed throughout Glory.

[JID]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Which I read was Christo's dad. Right. Christo as your producer. Long term producer. It's on all your albums. That's kind of wild.

[JID]

Yeah. Right?

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[JID]

He's a piece of pk.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[JID]

Which is cool because. And I also think it's cool because last time my dad was like, on the. On the Forever store, he was all over it. Right. You know what I'm saying? This time, his father's all over this project. So I think it's cool to just being able to add ancestors legacy. Part of the stuff that we're doing.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. Glory ends with the pastor kind of saying, like, what God. The work that God does on. On us. And then we transition into work. So the sample on this is fucking really cool and powerful in the background of the song pretty subtly, but once you hear it, it's like you can't unhear. At least I can't. But there's a literal work song sampled. It's called early in the morning. Recorded in 1948, it was sung by four incarcerated black men in Mississippi penitentiary who are forced to work on these. Essentially extension of slavery.

[JID]

Forced prison labor, specifically.

[Cole Kushna]

You found that. Oh, sick. Okay.

[JID]

For sure. Yes.

I really am the pick of the litter. I'm sipping liquor. Like a leader. Bigger. You need a leader. I can come and deliver the victory.

[Cole Kushna]

Well, tell me the story of that.

[JID]

It just ties back into everything that I'll be speaking about.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay. Did you have the concept work first and then found the sample or did the sample.

[JID]

I did it all together when I was writing the verse. I had the production. Well, we did a production in the studio, and I feel like I went on YouTube or something and just start looking up. Because I use the prison songs, specifically those guys. I've used that before. It could have been on radar. I'm not 100% sure, but something could have been on radar from. From them. But I used that because I knew, like, oh, this makes sense. This is like closer to, like, my roots of what I be talking about. It's like the slavery stuff, the prison, you know, What I'm saying. School, the pipeline thing, that whole little world right there. And yeah, I just thought the essence, even if you didn't hear it all the way, you could kind of feel it. You know what I'm saying? And that's what I was trying to go with.

[Cole Kushna]

No, it's beautiful. And I also like how it ties into the. At least in my perception, ties into the theme of the album because you have these men in this really ugly situation creating beauty, you know, creating. These songs can literally hear their axes on the. That create the rhythm of the song, you know, so blending work with this beauty. Just really cool. Really cool. Details. Okay, I gotta ask you about the opening line of this song.

[JID]

In a 1952 Dodge. I done seen so much with two eyes on.

[Cole Kushna]

So you say you couldn't even stop my drive if it were 1955. And I'm on 85 doing 95 and a 1952 Dodge. Okay, so you said you're pretty direct on this album, but this seems like it's kind of coded some stuff.

[JID]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, so can I give you my breakdown? You can tell me if it's right or wrong. Okay. So couldn't stop my drive. Obviously, your ambition. You're referencing a literal car drive in this metaphor. I also read that this was inspired by your football coach. So I was wondering if there was like a football drive play on.

[JID]

Nah, his thing was just let's go to work. That was his whole little phrase.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, so 1955 was the year of the Montgomery boycotts, tying in this idea of stop my drive. They refused to ride buses. The 85 is the interstate that connects Atlanta to Montgomery. So connecting your home around the same time too, right? Yeah, Exactly. So the 85 was built in 1958, so three years after the boycotts. 52 Dodge, 95 miles an hour. Interesting. I don't know if this might just be, like, crazy reaching, but the fastest Dodge from 1952 only goes like 85 or 90.

[JID]

Yeah, 85. 90.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, so it sounds like this was intentional. So essentially the play is like, even if the buses were down, highway wasn't built yet because you're siding a year before it was built. Yeah, car couldn't go that fast. You still can't drop stop my drive 100%. Okay, but you say you weren't being lyrical. That's like, so sick.

[JID]

Yeah, it's. I feel like it's intention. It's just doing your history and stuff like that. You know what I'm saying? I didn't know all of it. I knew when boycotts and all of that stuff was, but I didn't know when 85 was built, so I had to actually look that up.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay.

[JID]

It didn't be intentional about that.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, so we'll break down. Like, so where does the initial idea come from? Is it just that opening line? Or like, so how do you get into this? Get doing the research? Like, how does that generate.

[JID]

It started with the first line, and I decided I want to go with an. I wanted to go with a number scheme. And it's not really that crazy because this is why I say it's not that complex, because I use fives at the end of everything. I just. And I hate when rappers do that. Sometimes when you rhyme a word with a word you already said before, but I'm like, this is numbers. Suck my dick. But, yeah, it literally started with the initial line. You couldn't even stop my drive. It was 1955. That's where the ideas start coming from. Because it's like, okay, now we talking about this. How can we do more history lessons and try to, like, give little inklings of what I'm talking about? So I looked up when the first Dodge. Dodge rhymes with five a little bit. So I'm like, hey, talking about a car. This one was the first car. What was the fastest? What's the speed? Looked up all of that stuff, and then I went to the dates and try to just make it all correlate to, like, you not being able to stop my intentions, my drive, my focus, all of that stuff.

[Cole Kushna]

So sick. It's really cool.

[JID]

Thank you.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, let's jump to Community.

[JID]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

It's one of the best rap songs I've ever heard. This song is so good. So congratulations on making it. It's a perfect song.

[JID]

Thank you.

[Cole Kushna]

I'm confused by the intro. I'm wondering if you could help me understand. So you go into, like, all these kind of natural elements.

[JID]

The rain couldn't understand it. The pain made them understand. The sun tried to understand.

The gun made me understand.

[Cole Kushna]

Really beautiful line. It all. It kind of culminates this line. All the forces like a portal to a vortex connected to the stars. Just projecting where we part at. And then you do this a bunch on this album where you take a reference to childhood or, like, a reference to, I don't know, something like sweet, and then it flips. And in this case, you flip it to, like, this scene where I think you're talking about guns. Pull up where you park at. Aim a little dark where you Bark at.

[JID]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

So can you break down that intro a little bit for me?

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[Cole Kushna]

Minute to buy my gifts and I've.

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[JID]

Just speaking about, like why things are so fucked up for people in these living situations. People of color in these living situations. So it's like nobody understands it. The rain couldn't understand the pain. Made you understand, son. Tried to understand the gun. Made me understand. It's this. That's right. There is hella violence within those words right there. And just with how I grew up and stuff like this, I know I moved around probably before I was 13. I probably moved to 10 different cribs, you know what I'm saying? Different communities, horrible places. Some middle class, some apartments, all of that stuff. It kind of just added to how I grew up. The visual representation, the black people that I cause. I will say this, I grew up around all black people. I'm from Atlanta, went to a black school, middle school, high school, ended up going to a hbcu. So my real first interaction with a lot of other races and people that's not all black like, were now it's kind of like when I came into this industry and I'm like, oh, this is the world. Traveling the world kind of Opening my eyes to let me know it's not a lot of us out here. You know what I'm saying? So these small sections in the corners of whatever state you say in, like it kind of has the same thing going on. This. It's hoods everywhere. It's a MLK like, and it's gonna be a hood. Like those are two things you can guarantee. So with the words and stuff, I was just really trying to explain in a round, not even a roundabout type of way because you can understand what I'm saying. Rain couldn't understand. These are very simple terms and stuff like that. And. Oh no, I lost a question. I started rambling a little bit.

[Cole Kushna]

That's all good. Yeah, just. Well, I just wrote that. It's just a beautiful way to frame it, I think. And then you go into the apartments. That becomes kind of the main symbol of the song.

[JID]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Is that just got to go back into what you're just saying?

[JID]

Yeah, yeah. Just really trying to unpack and give like the instruction that I was told and give a. It's a true perspective on how I feel about these low income housing neighborhoods and just the places people were placed in without even having to like without an option. You know what I'm saying? No choice.

I'll put a bullet and Bob the fucking building before they try and kick us out the building. What about the children? When I check a news channel, I get a similar feeling. But still we going to make it to heaven high water or hell, but don't take the house.

[Cole Kushna]

Got to ask you about the Bob the Builder line, which seems to be a crowd favorite. Did you know like, when you write a line like that, do you know like, okay, that's going to be like.

[JID]

A. I didn't even think of it as a big deal. I was just like Bob the Builder representing represent someone who like come knock down these buildings or a gentrifier, something like that. That's why. I mean like usually when a rapper or artist thinks they got a bar and they stab it on the head. They probably dropped a beat or some like that. I just kept going because it wasn't even about. It was actually about the. The next line. The next line matters more. You know what I'm saying? What about the children? When I check a news channel now I'm talking about Palestine and gazing. All of these things. When I check a new channel, I get a similar feeling. But still we're gonna make it to Heaven High water, Hell. Ooh. Gave me chills a little bit. I'LL be. But all of this stuff that's going on around the world, and the kids that are dying, the dogs, I mean, we gonna die. But when. When it's the kids, that's when I'm fucked up about it. So when I said, what about the children? And it's. You know what I'm saying, We talking about buildings and what about the children? I think that's just, like, super cool.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[JID]

Because kids watch Bob the Builder and then we talking about true pain and people dying and lives being lost, and it's a lot of different, you know?

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[JID]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, So I gotta ask you about the clips feature. It's a really cool, like, generational baton pass that you set up at the end of the verse.

[JID]

It was after then I took my talents right up to Virginia Heard they said that she for lovers was good her was gritty I could tell you what he was but let brother tell you what I'm missing Pay attention what's missing in my hood I identified Then.

I brought white to my hood did.

[Cole Kushna]

You write your way into the wanting clips to be on the song or did you know they were going to be on the song and you wrote to pass off like that. Does that make sense?

[JID]

I get what you're saying. I wrote it to pass off and to push a verse like that.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay.

[JID]

Because the connection between us, I mean.

[Cole Kushna]

But you knew they were going to be on the song.

[JID]

Yeah, for sure. I had pushed this at first, okay. But I pushed everything back because I was like, yo, I need malice. There's no way I can. You know what I'm saying? Even because he stepped back into the. Back into the light or stepped back into rapping again. It's like, not. I would love to do this then. Because I went to school in Virginia, like I said on the record, and being up there, I heard everything about them. I know. I feel like I've met some of their childhood friends. I met people that went to school with them. Like, oh, I used to go to school night. You know what I'm saying? So it was always a through line of, like, a connection. And it was just perfect, you know what I'm saying? It lined up perfect.

[Cole Kushna]

So when you get that malice verse back, that malice verse, I think is a perfect 16. It's a perfect verse. Like, what's the reaction when he delivers you something that good?

[JID]

My ghetto's not your culture Niggas really die here so hard to say goodbye is the only lullaby here Kilos turning back boys to men Gotta pick a Side here, some with Jesus Shuttle's worth. Some of us were not serious. As time goes by.

I loved it. It's very simple when you hear stuff like I. I seen him speaking about me in an interview saying, like, they said, I feel like I'm one of the rappers that came from an era where you had to rap. I said my verse first, so I. I didn't know what was coming. I just know I'm put my best foot forward. I didn't know Bob the Builder. Like, I thought it was pretty funny. Yeah, but hearing somebody that you look up to, respect, I'm saying both of them do their thing and then they men of standards, you know what I'm saying? I. I love like that. You know what I'm saying? That's what I do this for, is to be able to have these conversations for you to say this one of the best hip hop songs you heard. I don't know if you said this year or, you know, ever, ever. That's like, that's what. That's a beautiful thing right there, you know what I'm saying? Because I do it because I like it. I don't do it because like, oh, all the homies in the studio like this. It's like, no, I really think this is a good composition. But when that exudes through the record and you give me that reaction or you say that's how it makes you feel, it's just like, okay, the message is being toward. The stories are being told, and it's done in a real authentic type way. That's authentic to me, you know what I'm saying? And how I feel and how I grew up and stuff like that. Cause, like, my stories are important for, I know, not just for me, but for my little brothers, my little cousins and other little black kids that grew up, how I grew up. You know what I'm saying? And it's kind of like inspiring to show. Like, okay, it's A, A, B, you can go to A, from A to B, you can do your thing. You know what I'm saying? You can make a play, you can, you can grow. You ain't got to be an artist. You can do anything you want, but just, I don't know, I keep a rearview mirror just to look back. Because that's kind of what my music is about. Like, being from the South, I rap like I'm trying to get the slaves free. For sure, for sure. And we f. We F, bro. But that's literally how I rap.

[Cole Kushna]

Right? Right.

[JID]

You know what I'm saying that's what I care about. That's what my father cared about. Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

I just gotta acknowledge Malice's final two bars tying perfectly into this album. Candy lady right there. Zombieland right there. So if we're talking about this album of ugly, dark, light, ugly, beautiful. Him painting that picture of these apartments, giving the candy lady the warmth, the Zombieland and everything that implies. And then, I mean, he knew his assignment because he says them apartments be the perfect backdrop for any nightmare. Tying it all the way full circle. And then. Yeah, you cut the beat out. Assuming just cause it's just like mic drop.

[JID]

I actually rapped after that.

[Cole Kushna]

Oh, you did? After you heard his verse.

[JID]

I already had it. I already had the second part because the beat switch when you hear those keys come in, the beat switch. And I was like, okay, if we don't get this in time, it'll just be me and I'll do two verses.

[Cole Kushna]

Oh, got it.

[JID]

It'd be me and Pusha, and I'll do two verses, one at the end. I mean, one at the beginning, one at the end, half him in the middle. But it worked out perfect. So those bars, like, they were fucking great, but you probably never want to hear.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, all right. Okay, so I want to skip. As much as it pains me to skip over again. Actually, no. I got to ask you about a specific moment on GS. One of the more unique perspectives or stories I've heard in a rap verse before where you tell this story about your car getting broken into. I'm assuming it's a real story. And then you explaining yourself, like checking yourself in real time and contextualizing feeling yourself getting angry and then contextualizing this specific incident within something larger. And then even earlier in the verse, you're talking about when you have your own past of doing similar things in.

[JID]

My car, see some blast by the door and I'm like, what the fuck is this? I knew what it was. The stadium right in the hood. My window was busted. Now I feel like the blood is rushing. Take a second, a minute adjustment. Had a couple things. But if they ain't find my bank, it ain't really get nothing, man. God dang little. Took everything from the spare tires to the spare chains, insurance papers, and some blunt spray. What the would they want with that anyway? But we in Atlanta, you can see the channels, man. That gonna happen every, any day.

[Cole Kushna]

So I'm assuming that's a. A true story. And I just maybe talk about that mind switch because I feel like it's something like really unique in, in song, but also like important for people to like think about.

[JID]

It's super important. And this is gonna be. This is gonna sound kind of crazy to me. It's gonna sound very. Not to me to you. I said it to the home and other day I was like, yo, I have so much like empathy for my brothers, like black people, that it's like if I got killed by, robbed and killed by a black man, I told my homie, I was like, you know what the first question I asked, like, what did he go through all his life? What the fuck did he deal with? You know what I'm saying? Like, why do you look at yourself being me? If you a black man, you look at another black man. It's representative of yourself in a way. It's like, how did you get here to this self hatred place? Now I probably won't. Like, I'm not saying this is actually like how I would do, but we were having a conversation. I just remember having that empathetic thought in my head, like, how the did he get here? It ain't had nothing to do with me. I'm. This is just whatever I'm. I got robbed, blah, blah, blah. But in real life, like that empathy that I spoke in that moment kind of sent me for a loop. It was like, yo, why do you think like this? And it goes back to like my family, my father and he's been in the military and him telling me about his friends that, that passed. And he went to the military when he was like 14. So he just remembers carrying dead bodies from being in this ward, dealing with all the shit he had to deal with. I just, I don't know, I see myself as an empathetic person towards my people. But at the end of the song I say, I ain't tripping cause I know who responsible. It's the motherfuckers that be claiming that we too thugged out. We're just blaming the system. I'm just being one of those type of guys, like, ah, get your foot off my nigga. Like, but let me do that, you know what I'm saying? Because it's just the.

[Cole Kushna]

No, it's Val. I think it's valid.

[JID]

I think it's valid and I think that's one of the more important stories on there that you could miss. You could, you could miss that whole story and just think jizz just rapping again. It's never that. It's literally second verse, I'm telling you a whole story. Get to the. I'm Telling you. I'm telling my real. I'm saying Saints and Falcons, robbery weekend. I'm such a football hit. I'm giving you specific, specific.

[Cole Kushna]

Right.

[JID]

Times, dates, how it happened, glass by the door. And I'm thinking about how, Dang, I used to try to, like, crack cards. Oh, I broke in a car before, too. You know what I'm saying? Why did you do that? Why did you and your homies have that over you? And it's just kind of like adolescence, youth, the situation people placed in. Yeah. Disenfranchised, you know what I'm saying?

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[JID]

Lower circumstances, classes, all of that. So it's like even saying, I think it's funny. My mom hate this line. I'll be thinking, Martin was wrong, Malcolm was right. You know what I'm saying? It's very simple. But at the same time, their ideologies were vastly different. In their approach and stuff like that. So just a contrast of all the, like, how you would assume a person is. And then just getting into their background and how they grew up and all that stuff. Like, again, I wasn't trying to be too metaphorical on here. I just wanted to tell you a story of, like, why I'm empathetic towards people that look like me. It's because I've done the same things, and I see what we're up against or were up against still to this day. And I just try to, like, shine light on the mindset of a young black man from East Atlanta that's grown, you know what I'm saying?

To a man having fun with a bunch of young Trying to feel numb to the pain I ain't tripping Cause I know who responsible it's the they be claiming that we too thugged out Gangster, gangster Everybody bugged out yeah, It's.

[Cole Kushna]

A really powerful story, especially when you understand the context of it. I feel like Kip Hop is more and more giving you that empathetic perspective, you know, I think Kendrick's doing great work there and just, like, really contextualizing it, especially, obviously, for people like me, that just. It's foreign to us, you know, we grew up like that. Okay. I wanted to jump into what I perceive as Act 2 of the album, which is, like, this stretch of more melodic songs. Interesting approach in terms of, like, grouping them all together. I think the more traditional approach would be kind of sparsing out those songs. So I'm wondering what the thinking was kind of making this larger act of these similar types of songs was just.

[JID]

Being a 90s baby and loving like R B in soulful sounds. And I just want like I. I went to vocal classes for this. Like, I want you to really understand. Like I'm. I'm really trying to sing. I'm really singing here.

[Cole Kushna]

I'm really like Grammy nominated singer.

[JID]

Now come on. We attacking these notes like Shout out Ms. Beverly Johnson. Thank you. Appreciate you. Love you.

Play the game by the cold don't.

Change on the game. She thinks the performance on wholeheartedly is okay. I think it's really good. But my, she said it's my vocal. She was like, you did okay. She older lady. She's like 80 something dog. Like she don't care. She just go give it to me how it is. Because she probably heard Ella Fitzgerald sing back in the day or something. Like, right? So with that being said, it had to be like that. It just had to be. Even if it. Even if you feel like you lost your vibe and you want more rap, I'm going to rap forever, bro. But you going to get these melodic songs. You gonna get these songs with me and Jesse Reyes, me and Mareeba, me and Don Toliver, whole Harley Mead, Ty Dial Sign in Black. Like you're going to live in that. And if it's just not for you, then I might not even be the artist for you. Like, but my fans appreciated that and I appreciated it and that's more important because I do stuff and I like it. It's not about like, it can't be based off anybody else's visual. You know what I'm saying? It can't be from their viewpoint or it's just not authentic to me. So I did that intentionally. I wanted those to be in that pocket. I wanted the mood to switch. I wanted it to flip the mood on his head. Because I could have did a whole album just full of like communities, right? You know what I'm saying? I could have did more GS and stuff like that, but it didn't feel the time or the place for it. It felt like me doing this selfish moment of like, okay, I really love these. I love this. Who the fuck is this moment on what we own? You know what I'm saying? I love that. Cause fucking Don Toddler is like our Sam Cooke. He's like Sam Cooke to me. I said that to him before and I love the confusion. I love how dark it is. It's vibey. Just listen to it at 3 o' clock in the morning. Tell me that's not like one of the greatest songs you ever heard. You know what I'm saying? 3 o' clock in the morning Coming from a long day or you could lead a club. Any situation like that is one of, like, my favorite moments on the album. Along with the melodic section in itself. I just wanna make it right Knee.

Deep down in that pain Call a.

Holiday to the sink Sipping a whole pint of that drink Smoking a whole house of that Dang. Hey, get over there. That tank.

[Cole Kushna]

I feel like Cody Blue is like one of the biggest, bigger songs off of Forever Story. Does that, which is all melody. Is that seeing the success and the kind of fans taking a liking to that song give you more confidence to do, like, this stretch or you're going to do it anyways.

[JID]

I'm going to do it anyway. I'm going to do it anyway. But I would say that Wholeheartedly was the oldest song on this project. It was made in 2018. Okay, 2018.

[Cole Kushna]

Should I say for the listeners that it was the one that was nominated for Best Melodic Rap Song at the Grammys, so.

[JID]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, definitely best melodic. And it's crazy because it's the oldest one on the project.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[JID]

One of the first songs that brought me into, like, oh, snap. I'm working with Ty Dollar Signs. I'm in the industry. It was one of those moments. So for that to carry over to getting a Grammy on me and my brother Black. Like, me and black men doing this. We used to sleep on each other's couches and, like, we damn near came up together. That and then Ty Doll Signs, one of the first artists that I always like, bought their album. You know what I'm saying? Free TC album was my shit. It's like full circle. Yeah, that's really cool. It's all super full circle. And my career has been like that the whole time. From the people that I love to the people I've been able to work with. And. Oh, no, you just can't. Can't beat it.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, so let's. So we get the Enemy vibe. Interlude, which kind of gets us back into. Transitions into the third act of the album, which is. Well, at least in my framing. I don't know if you thought about that. The element acts, but definitely a switch on McAfee. McAfee, McAfee. McAfee.

[JID]

Sorry.

[Cole Kushna]

There's enough raps in this one song for an entire album. It's so great. The number of flows and the switches. It's like when he wrapped this live. I saw you last week. Wrapped this live. I was like, Jesus Christ.

[JID]

It's a lot of information. It works, though. It works because the crowd is right there with me. I give them little moments to say that, like.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, well, there's a stretch of songs where you rap this. I can't remember exactly the set list or a bunch of songs like this back to back. I was like, how you must be doing cardio or something. Jesus Christ. But there's lots like. I feel like we're getting a lot of stories on the last half of the album.

[JID]

Yeah.

Little dog with a bite in the bark A nice heart abuse and turn to dark A nighthawk looking for food and look at the booty nice off maybe the bougie look good with the lights off. He bust real dope moves 1 dope white, 2 loose screw, 3 bad black little said them you dudes up tough dudes get touched too. Ash to ash and dust to dust. You best to bust a rusty trusty.

[Cole Kushna]

Dusty if you rush McAfee being. I'm not. I'm not sure exactly who they're about, but it feels like you're talking to. Maybe a younger generation gets you open with a little dog with a bite and a bark, a nice heart.

[JID]

I'm talking about the person on his own.

[Cole Kushna]

Oh, baby Keith. Okay. I was wondering if he was symbolic, but it's literally him.

[JID]

It's not literally him, but it's very symbolic of, like, what you might come across in Atlanta.

[Cole Kushna]

Right.

[JID]

And he was, like, the perfect person to, like, help me set that up because he, like, just represents a lot, and he represents talent and intellectual capacity. Being from where he from, he's like 1819 or something. 1819, something like that. And I don't know. I just appreciate this song for what it is and how heavy it is. And then the story, like, you can hear a subject matter, what's going on in there. It's not just, like, randomly thrown together. It's literally like stories that I've compiled through my life and people that I've seen that live that. Those exact words. Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Who's on the outro? There's a guy kind of giving you props and.

[JID]

Oh. Oh, you talking about at the end. At the end.

[Cole Kushna]

At the very end of the song.

[JID]

Oh, that's like.

[Cole Kushna]

Because you talk about someone right before that. A bloodhound. I think he's a blood now. I don't even try to show him a different route.

[JID]

You've been thugging it since.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[JID]

Is that.

[Cole Kushna]

Is that the guy you're talking about?

[JID]

That's not him at the end that's not him at the end, but that's. That's my homie Deion, bro. I remember, like, I'm talking about park ball and stuff like that. And I just remember he was the worst little human bro. He was like 7, 8 years old. I'm like, bro, why are you doing these things? Why are you cussing so much? Why are you talking to this grown man like that? And we just playing park ball. And I was like, oh, this is what you mean by bad apple, mom. This is who you don't want me to hang out. I kind of got that early. So that song, I hate that I said your name, bro. I hate it.

[Cole Kushna]

I said I can bleep it out.

[JID]

No, whatever. But yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just real occurrences and just life that I've seen in Atlanta. Like, just trying to paint ugly, beautiful scenes and just get the energy, you know what I'm saying? Feel that?

The bloodhound. I think that a blood now he bang guns and take crumbs. He bugged out. I don't even try and show him another rowdy. But thugging it since he younger, you know that we seen it come as his park ball days. I done wait Walker Le shot. It was popping off daily. Getting mad fighting, niggas walking off crazy.

[Cole Kushna]

You do feel like you get a portrait of one aspect of Atlanta throughout this project.

[JID]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

You know, painting these stories and not.

[JID]

The happiest side of it. It's not like the funnest. It's not the club going scene of like the dark underworld that you probably wouldn't even, like, want to get into.

[Cole Kushna]

Right? Okay. Of Blue and K Word, I feel like, is where we start to get some of the resolution and there's like, little more hopeful themes interspersed with the ugliness. The Mareeba intro might be my favorite part of the entire album. It's so beautiful.

[JID]

There's a reason for how the scene unfolds.

[Cole Kushna]

Don't stop wishing.

[JID]

Yeah. It's insane.

[Cole Kushna]

It's so good. So when you're working with collaborators like that, how much direction are you giving her? Specifically? Like, do you tell them, like, here's the theme of the song or is the 100%?

[JID]

That's what I did for this one specifically. Usually I wouldn't have to do that, but I just needed a certain tone that she brought. And I wanted it to be simple but, like, heavy. And she played it and sang it.

[Cole Kushna]

She played the piano?

[JID]

No, she played the.

[Cole Kushna]

Oh, the guitar.

[JID]

Yeah, yeah, she played the guitar on it. And then I. I helped her with, like, some backgrounds. I just sang a little bit in the background. I was like, I just wanted to be your moment because I'm about to just wrap my life away and get to the. It's more of a revol revolution resolution type song. Definitely. Definitely.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. It's kind of. I mean, of Blue itself is kind of its own little epic. It's like a subtle epic because there's like three or four parts to the song.

[JID]

It's like a short film.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[JID]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

That's really cool. So something I haven't talked about that seems to come up throughout the album, but really does come up on I blew is this idea of cycles and being stuck in cycles. Like in the core. In your intro, you say, are you following the flames like a tail chasing a dog? Later on in the verse, you talk about. I'm going to ask you about who this is about. But essentially you have that line about writing a line, Sniff a white line. Pure writing a line, sniff a light line. Pier. Like this cycle.

[JID]

I keep that personal.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, yeah.

[JID]

What I was talking about there.

[Cole Kushna]

But thematically, the song seems to be framed by Pastor Troy's vice versa. Because you quote, there's a refrain in the song, what if heaven was hell and vice versa, aversive vices.

[JID]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

I'm assuming that's a callback to Pastor Troy's song 100%.

[JID]

Heaven was hell and vice versa averse of vices. Writing in cursive, the grindable author defining purpose. Talking to himself. Walking, talking in circles in a secluded cabin somewhere cold. No phone service.

And this whole song is a callback because the first words you hear during the hook is, we gotta find a place. You know what I'm saying? And then I start going on with that. But at the end of the song, literally the last words, I say, I think I found it. You know what I'm saying? I think I found a place, and that place is love. Essentially, I go where the love is. I think that's the place that all. Like, that is the opening to the ending. You know what I'm saying? It's all full circle. But also having him on, like, the next song too is like super player. Because I did the same thing on Forever Story with Yasin. We had surround sound, sampled Ms. Fat Booty, and then we actually had him on Stars. And I try to, like, show love to my OGs and everybody that's, like, inspired me. And I've been able to contact and get their same reciprocated love, which is super Great for me. It's just super great. Just being in a position where people that you were inspired by kind of have the same thing.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[JID]

But with that. Yeah, yeah. The Pastor Troy moment was another part that was just like, full reflective of, like, kind of how I grew up. And that song specifically is just like chiseling away, like, chipping away at the ice, trying to figure out, like, what is this all about? Like, we gotta find a place and just not walking it, running in circles, you know what I'm saying?

[Cole Kushna]

Just interested in what your perception or interpretation of that concept of what if heaven was hell and vice versa. Because you end up. In my interpretation, you end up rejecting it later in the song because you say, fuck, if heaven was hell. Never rebel from the sight of God. So I guess what was your interpretation of Pastor Choi's vice versa thematically? And why did you want to use it as kind of the thematic framework of this song?

[JID]

On the opposite? Right.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[JID]

I love that song. Vice versa. One of the most darkest. It's just a dark ass song for real. Even to the point where he reversed and cut out some of the verse on that part. Yeah. And I know what he said.

[Cole Kushna]

Mother Mary stuff. Yeah, yeah. It's crazy.

[JID]

Concubine. He went crazy. Yeah. But I was just trying to go from the other side, like, what. You know what I'm saying? I said the same things, but I'm speaking more towards, like, no, it's only heaven. Like, you know what I'm saying? If that's what you're looking for, if you're looking for love and stuff, it's only heaven. Like, I wasn't really leaning to, like, the. The hell side of it because we already got this guy that's, like, ugly. I'm talking about all of that type of stuff. So with this song, it's more like. It's more of a resolve in it, and it's speaking on respect to, like, honoring God, saying telekinesis, telling God what.

I need I follow my needs to stand on my feet I'm back on the road to send a repentant, repeat descendant Repentant, repeat descendant repent I gotta see it through until it's finished we all gotta sentence we up again, blank period with a parentheses. I've been searching for something with substance I'm clearly coming up with nothing but it I go where the love is I think that's the place.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. So it's interesting because, yeah, you already talked about it, but the song, eventually. It's really cool how you set up with the sin of repent and repeat. The sin of repent and repeat. I gotta finish it through until it's finished. We all got a sentence we up against blank period. That whole wordplay is really cool. But then, yeah, you land on I'll go where the love is. I think that's the place I might have found it. Which feels like, for me at least, that would have been a natural transition into for keeps. But we get K Word, which is definitely more. Gets back to the darker. It's almost like the seduction of K Word being karma.

[JID]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

And you're kind of personifying karma and talking about a relationship with karma. So I'm. Where I'm curious. For me, K word is you've been talking about cycles. Karma to me is like the ultimate cycle. Not only in this lifetime, but if you, you know, research or karma in terms of reincarnation, it's like you'll actually be reborn until you get a life cycle. Right.

[JID]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

So I'm curious one. Like, why did you want to kind of land the album with K Word conceptually? And like, what. Like, what was the idea of personifying karma and how it fits into the larger theme of the album?

[JID]

She come around everybody calling her a she don't give a she not like that.

When she pull up everybody goodbye like a long night kiss.

Karma in itself is. As soon as you hear the word, you get like a bad connotation. You think like, karma, ho. But I think the way I approached it was like, good karma. You know what I'm saying? That's what I'm saying. Who can I call if it's. Who can I call? And all this stuff. Karma got you good. Karma got you beat. Karma got you good is kind of like where I was standing with it in the opposite side. It was like, karma got you beat. I don't care if it cut for me. Cause it's like, I ain't doing nobody wrong, like, you know what I'm saying? I would assume, I would say I've been a good man all my life. You know what I'm saying? And of course not perfect, whatever, Whatever. But my karma has not proved to be. Or maybe not to this point, but it hasn't proved to be evil dwelling in. It could be like. I don't know if it's on the way. It could be sins of the fathers. That's, you know, how that stuff comes. But specifically, when I was speaking to Carmen on this one, it was personifying it again, doubling down on. I don't with the demon all. You know what I'm saying? Say on demon time. I think you sound foolish. Like all of that dark. I was kind of like throwing that under the bus and just trying to like show a brighter side to it. Cuz even at the end of the verse I say nifi in his cycle here tonight because I saw the light. You know what I'm saying? That's the brightness to it. And then you got Jesse coming in and whatever the she said. I always ask her, like, what was you saying? It was, it was. It was simple though. It was just saying.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, she. I have the translation.

[JID]

Okay. Okay, perfect.

[Cole Kushna]

So she said, be careful with revenge. You don't have to go and collect from everyone and their mother. God takes care of it. Have faith that God takes care of it.

[JID]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Which to me, like, for me, for keeps, it feels like more like an epilogue. Like the conclusion of the album feels like what you say, if I do it right, I can end the cycle here tonight because I saw the light. And then Jesse Reyes, who I'm assuming is personifying karma.

[JID]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

100 giving that outro feels like a really natural conclusion to ties up the ugly beautiful motif, the dark lights.

[JID]

I ain't frightened so I fight through it. If I do it right then I can end the cycle here tonight Because I saw the light witness just me.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, What is the resounding message that you would want people to. To take away from the album in terms of. Yeah, I guess just a message is. Is it karma? Is it like good deeds will inspire good life? Or like, what do you.

[JID]

I feel like that's. That's a good point you can make from the album. And just perceiving yourself as like not even perceiving yourself, just being who you are naturally, you know what I'm saying? If you're innately like a bad person, then I'm sorry be that, I guess, you know what I'm saying? You probably couldn't change that. That comes to my empathetic side to. If somebody did something wrong to me, giving them that pass. So this is the conclusion would essentially be just like living your life with your best intentions, putting your best foot forward and just see the world how you see it. Don't try to be like anybody else. The herd mentality, like stuff like that is not important to me. So I try to like cut that off. You know what I'm saying? Gangrene it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay. Well, kind of got throughout the entire album. Now we're coming up on time, I guess. Curious. Do you know, are you been working on the new. Any new projects or. You got anything in mind? You.

[JID]

I got.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[JID]

As far as new music, I mean, it's probably gonna be my best body of work. I'm. I'm 100% sure it's gonna be like, my best body of work just because of things I've learned. And me growing up into this music, like, I didn't always think I was gonna be an artist. So me being in this industry, full man, and I'm trying to understand. And I'm trying to understand the maneuvers, and then I understand it kind of got it. I think it's gonna be like a good. A good on to the next. Whatever chapter this is, but I'm kind of not rushing it, you know what I'm saying? I'm enjoying this Grammy shit. I'm enjoying. Listen, I listened to the project, like, a couple nights, and I was like, this is really good project. Like, and it kind of grew with me, you know what I'm saying? It's still growing. I feel like even today, I'm still. I'm not hearing that I wrote. I know I wrote this. It's not like, oh, you're that smart. You just wrote some that you did, like. Nah, I'm just living with it and. And watching my words just manifest my life kind of. You know what I'm saying? Like, the good karma thing, that song, Karma always, hey, be, like, not force myself to be a good person, but just, like, lead with love, essentially.

[Cole Kushna]

Right?

[JID]

Even songs like Skate and stuff like that, like, that just brings a part of my childhood. Atlanta. Like, it's a super Atlanta project. No, no. I'm in love with this album right now, though. And I'm still thinking forward. Like, I'm. I have stuff that I got plans for with music and just different things that I want to try, but I'm in that place of, like, unlearning, relearning, right. So I can have another writing style for the next project and no working through it, bro. Yeah, we on a roll, so, you know.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, no, you got a busy schedule. Yeah. Well, thank you for this body of work. I mean, we're all still sitting with it. There's a lot to learn from it. I mean, even prepping for this episode, it goes way deeper than I initially thought. So it's just one of those albums, I think. Grows on you. Grows with you. There's, you know, there's more than enough kind of. I always say there's, like, portals can learn, you know, but we didn't talk about the song with Vince, but even like that, even that, that intro, you know, there's a whole history lesson.

[JID]

Oh, brother, that vcr. Yeah, that's one of my favorite records as well.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[JID]

Yeah, it's a hit.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, but there's. There's little stuff like references like that that I've been really enjoying just, like, digging into, so. We appreciate the. The work, and I appreciate your time, man.

[JID]

Anytime, bro.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[JID]

Thank you, brother.