Josh Berg (24:41)

Cocaine is ruthless I know the truth about.

Cole Kushna (24:51)

So this, to me, is very important, and it's one of my central ideas about this album, which is that almost on every song, especially in the first, like, two thirds of the album, Mac is singing directly to or about a woman. And of course, he could just be singing literally about a woman. And I think there are cases where that is true. However, there are certainly cases where that is not true, or at least in my mind, does not make sense really at all when in. In the context of the lyrics that we'll talk about when we get there. So the album essentially opening with a feature, a woman feature, who is talking to and about Mac being up for days, trying to reach her, trying to drive towards her, and then her demanding that he tells the truth about it about us, and then saying, cocaine is ruthless. This, to me, is a very pretty clear marker that the woman on this album is not simply a physical woman, that the woman represents something else. In the case that I'm going to be laying out all episode long with, what hopefully feels like substantial evidence is that the woman is a essentially like something like a hallucination, a face a la faces. A face in his hallucination that he is interacting with that represents a part of him, and specifically the part of him that is addicted to drugs. It could be a representation of the temptation of drugs itself or the part of him that feels sad. So a lot of times we're going to see that this woman is described as being sad and lonely, locking herself in the bathroom, looking for escape. And a lot of the time, Mac is going to be interacting with her, bargaining with her, essentially to use. So the central concept I'm going to be laying out this episode is essentially that the relationship, the strained relationship we hear on the album is the strained relationship Mac has with drugs and addiction. And I don't think I'm reaching here, as you'll see. I. I hope. I hope I make a good case for this, because I do feel like it's a thing. So as it relates to SZA opening the album and what she says to and about Mac on the album, it feels like that is a purposeful setup of this concept to me. And again, I don't know that opening with Sza in this way and not really hearing Mac until. In a real way, until track three feels like a huge creative decision that I just don't know if the folks working posthumously on the album would make if that. That's such a liberty. I just don't see them making that big of a creative decision. So track three, do you have a destination?

Josh Berg (27:38)

Okay. I went sleep faded and I woke up invisible Keep the ingredients but I got the kitchen full Thoughts are cynical actions Unpredictable supermodel bitches hold auditions in.

Cole Kushna (27:49)

My swimming pool so this plays right on with what Sza says about driving, about going across country, being up all night. And it also ties into this idea of balloonism, of floating, of aimlessness. So do you have a destination? Is reinforcing all these ideas. It's also the first time we really hear Mac in a real way. And what is the first line that he says on the album? I went to sleep faded Then I woke up invisible we're going to talk. We're going to hear Mac talking about sleep a lot, about not being able to sleep and trying to obtain sleep, and then kind of loving sleep when he gets into it. And again, this all ties into this dream world, this hallucination, this hot air balloon ride that we're on in this album. The chorus repeats the lines, where are you going? Do you have a destination? So just as I laid out in the idea of balloonerism, there's this idea of aimlessness, feeling empty, feeling directionless in life, not knowing what you're doing. Do you have a destination? Also ties into a drug trip. And again, just like sleeping and waking up, going up and going down, there's a cyclical relationship going on here. So you do drugs to escape a feeling, but doing the drugs While a temporary high, a temporary bliss, also then contributes to. To that feeling of sadness or loneliness. And because then you try to escape with drugs and then the drugs cause you to feel that again. So it's just this cycle. And then he returns to the. A similar variation of the same line on the opening of the second verse where he says, I went to sleep famous and I woke up invisible, rich as and miserable. So this gets me into a kind of secondary layer of what this the idea of a dream. So obviously there's a literal dream, hallucination or whatever when you go to sleep, but also the dream of being famous. The dream of becoming successful, obtaining a goal, thinking that's going to make you happy. And then you realize that it doesn't. This is a struggle that a lot of successful people deal with. We've heard it in the music of, I think about Kendrick Lamar and Tipimpa Butterfly or even Damn. This idea that this thing you've been chasing your entire life, this dream, you obtain it and you're still not happy. And what do you do from there? What in life is going to make you happy if not obtaining your goals? And when you realize that your goals don't solve everything, that there is only so much, that so much fulfillment you can get through chasing goals and obtaining goals, that is becomes an existential question. What the fuck am I doing here? Is happiness possible? If so, what is the means to contentment? And again, this is going to tie into ideas of Eastern religion where all these kinds of things are minimized and other things like presence and being and connection take more prominence than objects than goals. So anyways, secondary layer to this dream that we're in is this idea of an actual dream of success and Mac not being happy after finding fame. Another line that jumps out to me in this verse where he says, I'm not a kid no more. Coming for those residuals. Be asleep in a couple minutes. So this idea of an innocence lost and not being a kid anymore is going to come up a lot on the album, particularly closer to the the end. It is a very important theme that is established here in the opening song or in Mac's opening song. So take note of that. There's also the very potent line where he says, am I okay? No, just nutso. Need to let the drugs go. Trying to find heaven I get high but never come close. So again, this to me ties right into those ideas of balloonerism and all the things we talked about. Let's move on to track four. Five dollar pony rides.

Josh Berg (31:46)

We can take a vacation, go somewhere in the country, turn the radio on him.

Cole Kushna (31:58)

So this is one of those songs that feels like it's about a girl describing a relationship, about getting away, taking a vacation. But let's look at the title before we get into the lyrics, because Five Dollar Pony Rides is one. Something that you do as a child. But also riding the white pony is a reference to cocaine. SZA mentioned cocaine on the start. And a lot of these titles, as we'll see, refers directly or indirectly through illusion or metaphor, to drugs. So we have to denote that in our interpretation of the song itself. So we can read this as him describing a literal relationship, or we can really read this as his. A description of his relationship with drugs and addiction. So he says, we can take a vacation, go somewhere in the country, turn on the radio, hear my song, say whooo oh oh. My favorite song. Saying whooo oh oh. This is kind of a cool detail because he said whooo on both DJs court organ and do youo have a Destination. So both of the songs that we've heard so far, he says, whoa oh. Just like he sings it in Five Dollar Pony Rides, which to me just kind of adds to the surrealism of this entire thing of Mac taking a trip while being in the studio, listening to his own music, essentially. And then later he goes on to say, she don't know she slept through the future Missed it, it was yesterday. So we write back where we started again, cyclical. She's still trying to get away. Girl, you're wasting my time and I'm wasting your time but that's okay. I said that's okay. So again, could be a real relationship, but it could also be his relationship with drugs, right? She's still trying to get away. You're wasting my time. We're right back where we started. High low. It feels all right there, especially given the song title. Especially given that SZA directly said Tell me the truth about Cocaine. Like, literally, literally said that. Track five, Friendly Hallucinations.

Josh Berg (34:00)

There's no one on the other end of that telephone. Let's fall asleep to the metronome. No, no.

Cole Kushna (34:06)

I love this song. This is a great song. Both of the verses are really, really good. And it's another song about a quote unquote girl. The chorus says she fallen for her hallucinations. What's love without imagination? Don't let them tell you what's real and what's not. There's a paradise waiting on the other side of the dock. Mac is bargaining here, right? This feels like bargaining with your addiction. He's saying, what's love without imagination? There's paradise on the other side of the dock. Just use one more time. He also talks about the girl sleeping again. He says, pray that the landscapers don't wake her up. I'm a slave to the baseline. Very clever line here. Slave to the baseline, meaning the literal bass, musical bass, but also bass line. Bass is cocaine. A line of cocaine again, bonding the ideas of this woman of sleep, of bass, of music and of cocaine. It's all. All tied together right there. He goes on to say, still wide awake. I'm a stranger to the daytime vampire. Higher than a hang glider. Look around and all I see is gray skies. So this ties directly into this idea of taking a trip, taking a hot air balloon ride. Looking around, being high. It's all right there. Very key line at the end of verse one. I repeat, very key line at the end of verse one. He says to the woman, there's help inside of that medicine cabinet. Talking about drugs. Came in for the answers, but she left with a habit. Here's the key line. There's no one on the other end of that telephone. Let's fall asleep to the metronome. I'll repeat it one more time. There's no one on the other end of that telephone. Let's fall asleep to the metronome. He just referenced a medicine cabinet. She's looking for answers. Left with a habit. So this again, to me feels like bargaining. There's no one on the. On the. We're disconnected. There's no one on that telephone. You're lonely. Let's fall asleep to the music. We also know music and the baseline. These are bonded with drugs. Let's fall asleep. Let's do drugs. Let's fall asleep and listen to music. Is essentially what she's. He's saying, I think. And again, that's where the chorus comes in. She's falling for her hallucinations. Was love without imagination. If we're trying to make the case that this woman is a hallucination, literally, that Mac is interacting with. It's the part of himself that is drawn to drugs. I mean, he says, says it right here. Falling for her hallucinations. That to me feels very clear. That's just me, though there's some clever wordplay in verse two, I should probably just point out. Very quickly. He says, had a plan to burn her pass, but it backfired. So burn. Backfired. Play there. But also he says, hold on and be strong. That's a Reference to Outcast song of the same name. Kneel before your king the land you put your knees on it won't be long till your path finds you. So this is a play on a Nissan Pathfinder, right? Put your knees on path Find you Nissan Pathfinder. Pretty cool. He also then follows by saying, and if love is just a fantasy, then what's the problem if you fall in love with a fantasy? To me, this supports the idea that he's falling in love with his own hallucination, which is what he says in the chorus, which is, again, we just know his drugs, right? And again, to this same point, he closes this verse by saying, she doesn't have the patience to be treated like a patient. It'll be okay if you just swallow this pill. Then we get a very cool bridge where we hear Sza again, and together they're singing, having conversations with friendly hallucinations. So in my mind, I just don't know how much more obvious this now can get. We hear Sza again directly singing with Mac, saying, having conversations with friendly hallucinations. That might be the strongest point of evidence, direct evidence that we're going to get the return of Sza singing this duet about conversing with hallucinations. To me, it's obvious. All right, moving on to track six, Mrs. Deborah Downer. So a lot in this title, it is a woman, a literal woman. Once again, it's a play on Debbie Downer, which is sadness, which is loneliness, which is. Which is what I've been saying. This woman, the characteristics of this woman is that part of Mac. And downer, of course, is a type of drug, right? You say upper or downer. And this whole track to me is denoting the descent of a drug trip and the desire to float again, to go back up in the sky, to get high again. And this idea of every high eventually finding a low is, I think, implied in the hook where he says, even pills turn to powder, baby Again, baby. He's talking to the woman. The world want to crush him down. Even pills turn to powder, baby, can you sit next to me and crush him down again? Feels like bargaining. He's once again inviting this girl to do drugs with him. Tellingly, at the outro, he repeats, what you gonna do when the money come in slow and you left out on your own and you left out in the cold again. If we're thinking about this idea of coming down, the money coming slow, the idea that the drugs are running out and that the real me is coming back to the surface, and this Desire to get high again, which again, to me is so very clearly addressed by the feature that comes in. We hear another woman, her name is Ashley, all day. Someone that just happened to be in the studio that day, but she places a drug order. Can I get four narcos, two oxys, two Roxies, two meth, three methadone. And then her voice starts to morph, denoting some kind of trip, of course. But at the end of this song that's all about to me, coming down from a high, we get a re up, we get a reorder, and the voice is a woman's. So I think more evidence there. And this is followed by the track Stoned, where we actually hear him fire up a lighter and get stoned on the track in the beginning. So this is another song where he's talking directly to the quote unquote girl. The opening verse, she breaks down the pain she rolls up the weed Far from a saint that's all that I need she's all that I need Also in the chorus, Mac is asking her to get stoned and listen to a record, listen to music. So again, the idea of getting high and listening to music together is bonded in this chorus. And just keep that in mind for the final song. Okay, Moving on to track eight. Shangri La. I'll generally say that it's around this part of the album we start to approach death or sleep or the end of the high or the end of the trip, so to speak. A little bit more overtly, we're going to start to hear a little bit more direct references to death again until we get the culmination into the final song. The track title here, Shangri La, is very telling. It represents, in my mind, two things. Shangri La, traditionally is a fictional place, a symbol of essentially, of like a mystical or harmonious valley. Originated in a book in the, what, 1933 book. Essentially, it's become. It's been adopted as this symbol of earthly paradise. And it's usually secluded from the outside world. It's this place of euphoria and paradise. The idea of Shangri La from this fictional book was actually based on ancient Tibetan scripture, which mentioned like seven of these places of these utopic places. And essentially they are these sacred places of refuge. So obviously this has connotations within the context of this album, of this chasing this high, which is an escape through drugs, but also a desire for happiness, a desire to find out the meaning of life, all these kinds of things. The title also doubles as a reference to Rick Rubin's studio in Malibu. His studio in Malibu is called Shangri La, which itself is a play on the law. And Shangri La, Los Angeles studio. Get it? Malibu. But Rick Rubin, I think most fans of Mac know Rick Rubin and Max Mind was kind of this guru figure, this kind of Dalai Lama, personal Dalai Lama or something. Mac looked to him for advice. There's this kind of infamous story of Mac calling Rick Rubin while he was drunk and asking him for help. I guess subsequently he went and spent time with Rick Rubin where he taught him Transcendental meditation. And also, given Rick's kind of prominence and influence in music, having this kind of aura about him, you know, it feels very much symbolic. And I know we all know that Mac really looked up to him. And so I think that's important to denote about this song is that relationship, I guess, between what Max on Rick Rubin and his studio and how it relates to the traditional idea of Shangri La being this paradise, being this, this hap. Achieving happiness and fulfillment in this life. And maybe maxing Rick Rubin as a kind of conduit, someone that could help him achieve that. But also in this song we get direct references to death. A few times he says it's the house of the rising sun a village of unusual. If I'm dying young Promise you'll smile at my funeral Live today because you can lose tomorrow. He also says in verse two, I'm getting ready to sign my life away the weather's nice today what a perfect day to die. So, yeah, pretty heavy. We're going to move on though to track nine, Funny Papers, which is a beautiful song, absolutely gorgeous. It's up there with 2009. To me, it's up there with Good news. This, this, this type of song that Mac is so gifted at, which is I. The only way I can think about it is smiling or laughing after you've cried I know you know what I'm talking about There's a unique euphoric feeling of laughing or. Or smiling after you've just cried. And that's what songs like funny papers 2009 good news capture for me is that that perfect balance of melancholy and warmth.

Josh Berg (44:34)

Did no one ever teach you how to dance? Nobody ever taught you how to dance?

Cole Kushna (44:42)

So we get this really angelic, beautiful, dreamy piano and Mac doing what feels like to me very John Lennon influenced introduction where he's putting on this accent, kind of being silly about teaching someone to dance, teaching everyone knows how to dance. There's only so much time. It's so charming. Just like A lot of these moments, these kind of looser moments on the album really capture his personality and the environment in the studio that he created. But once we get into the song proper, each verse kind of tells a story that he read in a newspaper. The first one starts with, yeah, somebody died today. I saw his picture in the funny papers. Don't think anybody died on a Friday. And then he tells this story about this angry banker, recently divorced, drunk, driving down the highway, ends up driving off a bridge to his wedding song. And because he's reading this story from a newspaper, kind of interesting connotations in that one's man's life is summarized in the funny papers, kind of expressing the lightness of life, the lightness of being. Ultimately, our stories can be whittled down in just a few sentences, and we move on, people move on. And once again, it's Mac kind of looking at life and trying to make sense of it. Right. The song overall definitely feels like an homage to the Beatles pretty clearly. I think there's a song on the end of sergeant Pepper, the very. The final song of that album, which Mac has stated is one of his favorite albums of all time. There's a song called A Day in the Life. If you haven't listened to the song, it's historic, literally, so definitely listen to it if somehow you haven't. But essentially it's the same kind of format where John Lennon opens the song saying, I read the news today about a lucky man who made the grade, then goes on to say he saw a photograph of someone's mind blown out in a car. So same kind of tragic story he's reading about in the newspaper. Second verse, he's talking about a film he saw and relates another story so very clearly seems to be homage to A Day in the Life, which, again, is on Mac's favorite album. It's not the last time on this album that he's going to reference the Beatles directly, so keep that in mind. But there are moments also outside of these stories where he relates his own feelings. A couple of specific lines that stuck out to me thematically. He says recently, I only meet peace when in deep sleep Been the same dream world Safe smile on her face Waiting on the other side. I wonder if he'll take me to the other side. Once again, this amalgamation of peace within a deep sleep, talking about dreaming, talking and wondering about death all in the same breath. These. These themes are bonded throughout the entire project. In the second verse, he talks about seeing a newborn baby in the funny papers, and this marks the beginning of this theme of childhood innocence, which really kind of exponentially becomes more focused and important in these last couple of songs. So he says, why'd she bring these bright eyes into this dark place? Oh, sweet oblivion Way before the information gets settled in. He then continues, I swear to God, I never want to sin again But I fear that trouble's on its way. And then he closes out the verse, saying, baby, there's a little vacation in the dresser. Take one for depression and two for your temper. This is another one of those moments where he is not talking about a woman. But as soon as he references drugs, he says, baby, baby, there's a little vacation in the dresser. That happens a number of times. I didn't track it exactly, but be aware of that little detail because it definitely happens a handful of times on the album. And again, in my mind at least, it really relates that idea of this baby, this. This woman being something other than an actual woman. And then the chorus of the song is just gorgeous. If I could just pay my rent by Tuesday, I bet I'd be rich by April Fool's Day. Which is just a really clever way to relate, you know, the emptiness of money, the fallacy of money. Thinking that we can just do this one thing and then we'd be happy. But the irony of April Fool's being cited there is that that kind of thinking is a fallacy he knows firsthand. Again talking about his dream. What happened after he obtained his dream. And within the dream that is this album, kind of looking beyond that. Looking for something beyond that. To find meaning, to find contentment. So beautiful song. I was floored when I first heard this song. It's my favorite on the album so far. Along with the final song that we'll get to here in a second. But first track 10, Excelsior. So on the introduction of this song and throughout, we hear a sample of kids playing in a schoolyard. And this is where that theme of loss of innocence really is emphasized and will be continued to be emphasized until the end of the album. But before we get to the lyrics, let's analyze the title, because like most of these titles, it has significance. So excelsior means ever upward or ever higher. So within the theme or the concept of balloonerism and floating and getting high, you can see how this fits perfectly. Ever upward, ever higher on this journey that is this dream hallucination. Higher and higher towards the heavens. Higher and higher towards sleep, towards death. Excelsior is also the catchphrase of Stan Lee, the creator of Marvel Comics which evokes this idea of childhood and childhood innocence. So within this, just the song title, Mac is bonding those two ideas. The loss of innocence, the allusions to drugs, the illusion to the journey of life, and this idea of childhood innocence that is talked about in the song. So the song is just one verse, and he starts out by describing children playing in the playground, just like we hear talks about bullies. He talks about the motivations of bullies, Just kind of classic childhood dynamics. And then he provides some insight, saying all of this before the brainwash starts, before they get polluted, start thinking like adults. Life is fantasy and somersaults. Then before the world tear apart imagination. Before there were rules, before there are limits, your only enemies were. Want some Brussels sprouts and spinach? Me, I used to want to be a wizard. When did life get so serious? Whatever happened to apple juice and cartwheels?

Josh Berg (51:09)

All of this before the brainwash starts, before they get polluted, start thinking like adults. Life is fantasy and somersaults. And before the world tear apart imagination.

Cole Kushna (51:20)

So directly talking about loss of innocence here and within the reflections that are happening on this album. As Mac is considering not only his life, but the concept of life itself, he's kind of considering and mulling over when does it actually start to get complicated. Of course, beneath all this, there's kind of a yearning to go back to that state of childlike innocence when things were more pure before you got corrupted and started succumbing to temptations and within the scope of this album. And it's kind of battles with addiction, of course, inherent in that innocence is a time he was not addicted. Right. So kind of tragic, beautiful, nostalgic. It's one of my favorite tracks on the album, and probably more than any other song, really hits this theme of. Of loss of innocence directly and within the context of the album and certainly where it's about to go, we can start to think about innocence and purity and death kind of being a return to that state, right? A return to. To peer, to peer consciousness, to pure being, to pure essence. So keep that in mind as we continue into track 11, transformations featuring delusional Thomas. I'm not going to spend too much time on this track. It's the one track, particularly in this sequence, this last stretch, that I'm the most curious about if this was one of the moves that the. That either Edan or Josh Berg made, because it kind of sticks out to me thematically and conceptually. Essentially Delusional Thomas, for those that don't know Is Max alter ego, kind of a darker devil on the shoulder type character. Anytime Mac's voice is pitched up, it's usually a sign that it's delusional. Thomas talking. I like the character. I like this song. I I curious about the sequencing of it, if that was Max intention or not to put it here, because in terms of the conceptual trajectory. And again, this could all just be my own interpretation, right? I can very well be wrong about all this, but it's the one. It just kind of sticks out. I haven't. And maybe I'll come to some kind of conclusion about it if there is one later. But I haven't figured it out how it relates. I'm kind of just going to skip over it to get to track 12 because it kind of continues the conceptual thread that I really see at the end of this album. So track 12 is Mannequins.

Josh Berg (53:45)

Well, my good days are exactly like the bad ones. My say that I defy the laws of attraction. I've always been terrified of ending up normal.

Cole Kushna (53:56)

Normal Mannequins is another favorite of mine on the album. Super dreamy, super surreal. And it's also where he really starts to bond these, all these themes together. In verse one, he says, God is like the school bell. So school bell is evoking childhood. He going to tell you when your time is up, shit just end up working out. Why did we wonder why it does? Yeah. So I asked God to take me on a perfect day. Later, he evokes childhood again saying, education system. But I feel we only learn from change. Then in the chorus, we get one of the most overt mentions of death. He says, we are what we believe in. There is no such thing as freedom. But what can we do? What can we do? Because I see the light at the end of the tunnel. It feels like I'm dying, dying, dying. I'm dead. So when I hear stuff like this, especially in an album like this, especially as we're nearing towards the final two songs, I hear this as being conceptually very important, especially where we end up on the final song. So we get a direct description of feeling like he's dying. And then the literal statement, I'm dead. Verse two, he says, they tell you that you need sleep and suddenly you do, scared you're going to wake up as someone who isn't you. So this is a direct callback to the first song that we hear, Mack on Destination, when he said, open the album saying, I went to sleep faded, then woke up invisible. Same idea again, relating sleep to Being a cousin of death. He then follows that statement by saying, we've all been down that road before. Poured alcohol on open sores. It's such a brilliant image and metaphor, using the idea that we clean open sores with alcohol, but also emotional sores with drinking alcohol. He then ends this verse saying, nobody can hurt me if I go inside and close the door. So this image of disconnection from the outside world, something we know Max struggled with, not scared of growing old and dying. Feel this. Where the answer lives. You wear the garments. Everyone needs to dress some mannequins. That one, that final line which calls out this, the song title, I haven't really quite figured that out. Mannequins, I think, is evoking being dead and dressing maybe someone for their funeral. And maybe it's something like, you wear the garments at. At some point you're alive, and at some point you're dead, and somebody's going to be dressing you as if you were a mannequin because you're inanimate. But then we get the repetition of the chorus where we once again hear that line, because I see the light at the end of the tunnel. It feels like I'm dying, dying, dying, I'm dead. It's hard to know what to do with that information, because if this is a conceptual project, if this sequencing was intentional, particularly this final three stretches of songs, we can take that literally, conceptually, take it literally. This is the point where Mac dies, quote, unquote, on the album. And that would mean that track 13 and 14 are depictions of the afterlife. Or this is where we're really getting into that liminal space of in between. At the same time, I don't want to take it too literally if that wasn't the interpretation. So we'll just keep both kind of options in mind as we get to track 13. The beautiful song. Rick's piano yeah.

Josh Berg (57:19)

Wonder if the blind mice even want to see I wonder if the deaf father ever hear his daughter scream Is there a heaven? Can you see the God in me? I don't know.

Cole Kushna (57:31)

So, as the title alludes to, this is Rick Rubin's piano that we're here. Apparently, Mac recorded himself playing Rick Rubin's piano when he went to go visit him and was waiting for Mac to receive him. And we know, again, how much Rick Rubin means to Mac, kind of symbolically. And so this is him at Shangri La playing the piano. And it's kind of this dreamy, distant piano, heavy with reverb. I think he probably recorded on his Phone. So it's also kind of like lower in quality in a cool way. And again, this is where my conceptual mind goes. Because if he said. If you just said that he is dead. And now he's kind of in. Now he's in Shangri La, literally. Playing Rick Rubin, his guru's piano. This feels like you could interpret this as some kind of heaven, right? And it's also one of the more dreamy atmospheres on the entire album, this song. And we get this kind of beautiful sentiment of optimism in this song that is interspersed with darker elements. But the refrain is, the best is yet to come. And he repeats it over and over throughout the entire song. And so it's this strange. Again, it's a strange feeling of like, peace, darkness, dreamy drug, haze, floating. Like all. All the kind of thematic motifs are really starting to concentrate here on Rick's piano. And on the last song, a lot of the song is him asking questions. He says, I wonder if the blind mice even want to see I wonder if a deaf father could hear his daughter scream Is there a heaven? Can you see the God in me? I don't know, probably. But for now we'll keep waiting because the best is yet to come. And I wonder if truth come with a song and if it do, will we ever get to sing along? So we get these very direct kind of contemplations of life and what it all means. And he's in this kind of dream, euphoric Shangri La atmosphere, playing Rick Rubin's piano. The final line of the verse is very telling. He says, I shot myself on my birthday, fell into the ocean, listened to their voices. I was lost in the commotion. So again, surrealist, abstract imagery. It all, it makes sense, we can visualize it, but it's. It's very surreal in that mid-60s Dylan esque way. He says, none of us are chosen. I forgive them for their ignorance. But what a man got to do for a little bliss, the best is yet to come. So again, direct juxtaposition of darkness, of desire for bliss, which we know for him definitely, at least in part, evokes drugs. And this optimism of the best is yet to come. The outro is very telling as well. He repeats three questions, starting with what does death feel like? What does death feel like? This morphs into why does death steal life? Which then morphs into why does death steal life? Again, we know what happens to Mac, but this is someone in his young twenties contemplating mortality in a very real way, asking himself deep existential questions and importantly he punctuates every one of these questions with oh, my God. Which in this context is definitely not just a throwaway phrase, right? Evoking. Afterlife. Evoking. Again, we're in Shangri La. All very beautiful, all very interpreted as haunting. I don't know. There's so much beauty in this album. I don't want to minimize it, as this is all very eerie, because we know it happened. There's. There's so much beauty in this art. So many deep questions. And then we get to the final track, track 14, tomorrow will never know. It's 12 minutes long. And like I said earlier, this is one of the more deeper, profound experiences I've had with music. If you haven't listened to this, particularly with headphones on, I would recommend it, just be ready for it. But it's a very emotional, very visceral musical experience if you allow it. If you allow yourself to. What I think he wants us to do is submerge yourself into this world, be a part of this world that he has created. So most of the motifs, if not all of them, all concentrate into this song. We can hear a lot of them in just the opening. We hear the same sample of the kids in the schoolyard from Excelsior Return here. They're more distant, distant than they were in Excelsior. Which to me, again, if we're sinking deeper and deeper into this hallucination, deeper into this dream, this sleep, this trip, this is the evidence for all of that. And if all of this, if the album itself is to encompass a life cycle represented by a drug trip, the high and the low of a drug trip, we are definitely transitioning into death here. I think it's very clear that's what's happening on this song. And so we get these distant schoolyard children, and that is evoking that innocence, that return to purity. The song title we have to talk about before we even talk more about the song itself. Tomorrow We'll Never Know is a direct play on Tomorrow Never Knows by the Beatles. This was the final song on Revolver, my personal favorite Beatles record. It was written by John Lennon. It was very, very influential song, Kind of a groundbreaking experimental song. They're playing with tape loops and trippy sitars and effects and all the more experimental elements that we know the Beatles for. Kind of begin here, begin on Revolver, for sure. But Tomorrow, Never. Tomorrow We'll Never Know was definitely very, very much important to them, important to the history of music. And a lot of these techniques were then kind of more fully developed on sergeant Pepper more integrated throughout the entire project, where Revolver kind of comes and goes. Anyways, it's the final song on Revolver in the same way he cited A Day in the Life, which was the final song on sergeant Pepper. Now we are on the final song of Balloonerism, and it's citing the final song, a Beatles final song. So there's direct correlation there, more direct correlation when you know what Tomorrow Never Knows was inspired by. So this Tomorrow Never Knows was written after an LSD trip, essentially. So John Lennon bought this book, the Psychedelic Experience, a manual based on the Tibetan Book of the Dead. And essentially he took LSD and he used this guide to kind of navigate his trip. And the guide specifically cites passages from the Tibetan Book of the Dead, which is itself a Tibetan Buddhist text that was written for navigating the process of death, the bardo and rebirth into another form. So. So you have a. You have the Tibetan Book of the Dead, which is self a guide to death and rebirth, which is then quoted in this LSD guide, which then is quoted. And Tomorrow Never Knows, which is itself a kind of trip that was written inspired by a drug trip. Are you seeing the connection here to the drug trip that is Balloonerism? So let's read some of the lyrics from Tomorrow Never Knows. John LENNON sings Turn off your mind, Relax and. And float downstream it is not dying Lay down all thoughts Surrender to the void it is shining. So these are direct correlations to balloonarism, to the end of balloonarism, to the end of this experience. Mac Titling this song, I feel like it's an indication for us there's no other reason why he would title the song citing the Beatles record if the Beatles song didn't have some correlation thematically to what's going on here. I think this is very purposeful to me. All the lyrics to Tomorrow Never Knows correlate directly to what's happening on Tomorrow We'll Never Know. And it's talking about resisting or letting go of your resistance. Floating, he continues saying that you may see the meaning of within it is being, returning to that pure essence. He says that love is all and love is everyone. It is knowing that ignorance and hate may mourn the dead. It is believing. But listen to the color of your dreams it is not living. Or play the game existence to the end of the beginning. So, man, I mean, these are just direct correlations to the themes and the concept of balloonism. I am. I'm very much convinced this is all very much purposeful. And I can't remember If I mentioned this before, so sorry if I did. This episode is literally a stream of consciousness. If you haven't kind of picked up on that by now. But John Lennon used to also personify drugs, LSD trips, hallucinations with women. On Revolver, the same album that Tomorrow Never Knows is on. There's a song called she Said and the lyrics read like this. She said, I know it's like what it's like to be dead. I know what it is to be sad. And she's making me feel like I've never been born. That song was also inspired by an LSD drug trip. And again, we get this kind of life death, this surreal imagery and a woman conveying being sad and saying she knows what it's like to feel dead. These things in my mind kind of correlate to what Mac has been doing on Balloonarism with the woman. And we know for sure that Mack was a big fan of specifically John Lennon. He had a tattoo of John Lennon. He also said this about the Beatles to Complex. When he named sergeant Pepper one of his all time favorite records. He said, quote, I love what they represent, I love all the shit. When they started to get really weird, I kind of identify with them not in like it's their massiveness, but like in their journey. So if he's talking about them getting weird and him identifying with the journey, I think for sure he is identifying with the fact that the Beatles came in as these kind of boy band ish, really talented, but boy band ish, not a lot of depth, you might want to say, with their early work, and then got it more experimental, got more deep, experimented with drugs and made some of the best music ever. So Mac's journey, you could say he started out as this frat rapper who was criticized for making kind of hollow music and then started making very deep, profound music correlating with his experiences with drugs. So there's definitely an influence there, a parallel there. So anyways, all that to say that this feels very intentional, him drawing on this favorite song of his, I'm assuming, and titling his own kind of quote unquote version of it. If you listen to Tomorrow Never Knows, it's. It's much faster pace, but there's, there is a entrancing experience because there's this droning sitar that happens throughout the entire song and there's all these weird sounds coming in and out. It feels very hallucinatory. It feels, but just in a different way. And I think we're getting the same entrancing kind of quality. Just a different version of that feeling. With Tomorrow We'll Never Know. Also, I'll just mention here, before I forget to call back to Tambourine Dream. And my instinct, initial kind of thought that that was a play on Tangerine Dream, which was a strain of weed. But also this really influential 60s electronic group from Germany that was directly influenced by the Beatles. By the way, the name Tangerine Dream is a direct reference to Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds, a song that, by the way, Mac sampled before. There's a lyric in there that says Tangerine Dreams. Or. No, sorry, it says Tangerine Trees. And the people in the band misheard it. Thought he said Tangerine Dream. Anyway, that's where the name comes from. And they were influenced by the Beatles experimentation. They're also into psychedelics. They are also into surrealism, which I've been alluding to balloonism having this surreal quality, particularly with the artwork that represented it with. And so I don't know. Again, I don't know if that's a reference. But it kind of all fits into this world of 1960s experimentation, drug influence, Eastern religions or ideas and philosophies influencing these Western artists. I can very much see that inspiration point throughout this entire album. Anyways, let's get back to the this song because, remember, I emphasized friendly hallucinations. There's the line. There's no one on the end of that telephone. Let's fall asleep to the metronome. He's talking to the woman again. It feels like bargaining. He's saying, we're disconnected from the outside world. We might as well do drugs and listen to music and go to sleep, I. E. Trip. So why is that important? Well, we hear the telephone, for one. So throughout this entire song. We're going to talk more about it at the end. But even in the very beginning of this song, we hear the telephone ringing. We hear the phone call going to voicemail. And then we hear what we assume is Mac calling again. And throughout the entire song, or most of it, and definitely the last six minutes of the song is this just ring. This constant telephone ringing, ringing and ringing and ringing with no answer. So that's a correlation. But the second half of the line is, let's fall asleep to the metronome. And what do we hear on tomorrow? We'll never know. We hear a metronome. So I identified the metronome sound pretty much right away. I didn't get the correlation until two listens in to Back to the Friendly Hallucinations. But any musician most Musicians know the metronome sound that I'm talking about. I'm going to play the excerpt here.

Josh Berg (72:31)

Do they dream? Just like.

Cole Kushna (72:38)

So that high pitched digital kind of chime, that's a very common metronome sound. Let me play you a digital Korg metronome sound here and you'll right away notice the correlation. All right. So in my mind very clearly, Tomorrow Will Never Known features a metronome. So we hear both the telephone and the metronome that is mentioned together in friendly hallucinations. That also is bonded to this idea of the girl. Bonded. These ideas of sleep and dream and death all here united on Tomorrow Will Never Know. It gets even more meta, I guess. Like, okay, here's what Max said about this song Tomorrow Will Never Know. Quote, I was just really high and I made this awesome song the other night that was like a 10 minute song. It's just. I've been listening to it to go to sleep every night. I don't even know if it's good. I just like it. It's like a dreamy ambient song. So Mac was literally going to sleep with this song, if my interpretation is correct, in that the woman, at least in some instances on this album, is that representation. Friendly hallucinations. There's no one on the end of that telephone. Let's fall asleep to the metronome. The let's. Mac is talking to himself. Let's fall asleep. He's justifying drug use here, which is exactly what he is saying. This song was to him. He would take drugs, go to sleep listening to the very song we are now listening to that ends this project, that ends this drug trip. Like, are you guys seeing the meta layers that are happening here? It's trippy. Like, literally, literally trippy. So I was kind of mind blown when I discovered that correlation. I think it's. I think it's correct. But let's talk about more. I have more to say about that meta aspect of it, but let's talk about the song a little bit more. So I have more very direct allusions to afterlife, about life, the liminal space in between. He starts verse one saying, do you fear that you'll have no control? Again, this idea of floating, being aimless, having control of your life, in your life, generally speaking, you walk through this world with your head above water, shoes made of copper, just trying to float. So again, floating imagery, we're getting that kind of early precursor to some of the themes and motifs. And swimming, the album swimming. And again, this is all him reckoning with Mortality and the dynamics of life. He ends this verse by saying, you wonder when God will just listen and give you a break. And he says, see, living and dying are one in the same. And this, to me, ties back into the Eastern ideas, that Tibetan Book of the Dead about guiding through life. Life, Bardo, the liminal space and rebirth. And then he has this repeating chorus. Do they dream just like we do? Do they love just like we do? Do they feel just like we do? I think he's talking about, do dead people. Do the people that have passed on, do they dream? Like, are we connected in the dreams? Do we share a dream space? And then again, love and feel again. It has that kind of surreal quality of we're just. We're wondering what. What the. What the. I don't even know how to word it, really. Like, what the essence of. Of whatever we are, you know, when that passes on, when we leave the physical form, do we just go to sleep? Or is that. That sleep, that concept of sleep in that concept of sleep that the living is interpreting as dying in that space on the other side, do we still dream? Are we still that essence? What happens to that essence? And here Mac is singing about these things in this liminal space that we're in, in this particular song, which is the end of this journey, right, that he's been talking about the loss of innocence. He's talking about God and leaving us. And all these things are all culminating. Excuse me. In this final, masterful song, verse two, he starts saying, do you know anything at all? You've been waiting for answers. That's the phone call. You've been waiting for answers. So the phone call that runs throughout this song, I think is. Has a multitude of layers. We can think about it. I think it. I think he's saying one reason, like, pretty blatantly here at the opening. If he's getting no answers, if he's calling, he's asking. We can think about that as him asking questions, looking for answers. Someone answering the phone, God answering the phone, giving him answers. And he's. And he's questioning that here. Do you know anything at all? You've been waiting for answers. So he's saying, you here too, also. Which he could be talking about the girl, which, in my mind, he's talking to himself. So he's. All of this. He's talking to himself and even says in the first verse, he says, the. The lake's frozen over. Look down at yourself. What's staring back doesn't please you. The man don't Believe you, he sees through the lies that you tell. So clearly he's talking to us, but also talking to this woman that is himself, or he's just directly talking to himself. He goes on to say, you can try your best Escaping the universe is breaking. You say you can't take it no more, which is tragic line. She continues by saying, the pressure is building like buildings you've jumped from wishing that wishing could lift this conundrum. The streets that you walk on are shallow but do you feel as big as your shadow? So again, more of these kind of existential questions underpinned with this kind of melancholy, this kind of resignation maybe that's coming through. We get the repetition of the chorus where he is talking about asking if they dream just like we do. And then we get the final outro. The very last things that we hear from Mac on this album. He says, essentially repeats the same phrase, said, if you can make. If you can make, if you can make all building up what you know. When you repeat something, it builds tension because naturally listeners like, well, what is he? How does this end? Because he says it like eight times, nine times. And he says ultimately, he says, if you could make it all go away, give you a chance to start all over. So we're talking about the Tibetan Bukit, dead life, birth, Bardo and rebirth. Talking about childhood innocence, the return to purity. If you had a chance to start over, would you make it all go away? Would you. Would you do that? If you were to start it over with the knowledge that you have now, would you be able to make a better life? Is that possible? Just very, very deep questions. And that is the sentiment he leaves us on verbally, vocally, I guess, because the song does not end there. The song then continues on with a final six minutes that is just. I don't know, just listen to a little bit of it and then maybe I'll try to describe it. Okay, so it's very moving. I don't know if in the clip it really captures the experience of this final six minutes of the album, but it's very, I don't know, profound, deep, moving, all those things. So we hear this droning bass, we hear sounds coming in and out. We hear those childs, the child, the children, the echoing children. And then, of course, just that phone call. Ring after ring after ring after ring after ring. And by the end of the song, Mac has not spoken for six minutes. And essentially, this is where. However we're conceiving of this album, this is where it ends. I think it's all of these things. It's Mac finally getting rest, finally going to sleep, which he has said he struggles with on throughout the album, calling himself a vampire. We think of SZA starting the album, saying, you've been up for three days, etc. Etc. And now he is at rest. So it's. It's the end of the dream. It is into, like a deep sleep. It is. We are now past the purgatory state. And obviously there's a literal death occurring here. And so all those ideas centralize this album. That is a trip up in the air, in a balloon. That is a drug trip. That is a lifetime represented in that drug trip. The ups and downs or the up and then the down all taper here. And just that persistent phone call that, like I talked about, I think represents the lack of answers. It represents what he said specifically on hallucinations, where he says, there's no one on the other end of that telephone. Let's fall asleep to the metronome. So I'm disconnected from the world. I feel perpetually disconnected from the world. We could also interpret as him calling God, I. E. Looking for answers and no one answering those questions that he's been asking through throughout the entire album. And we also have to say, like, he could be calling his dealer, right, Looking for more. And so all these things really culminate. And again, I don't know if I've. I've done justice to the concept of life, liminal state, rebirth. Because this is not just an end, it's also a beginning. This is the swimming in circle moment. Because I'm going to read to you a quote from Mac from npr. And I cited this on season nine, episode one, where we go through some of the connections between the end of Mac Miller's albums and the beginnings of them. And this quote is very important to that concept. He said, for some reason, I'm obsessed with albums ending in death. I don't know why. And I. And it's not even necessarily a negative, sad thing, but I guess to me an album is just a life. It's like a mini lifetime. And then he goes on to describe what happens at the end of Good Am, the song, the festival. So he says the festival is actually supposed to be Eukami from Little Dragon is supposed to be God welcoming me into heaven. So Max albums ending with death. We tracked it since Good AM to define feminine to swimming, and then circles all those albums in their own way, ending pretty clearly with death. Swimming ends with what he described as an ascension into heaven. So this is a concept. He talks about it very clearly here. What balloonism reveals is that he had this concept before Good Am, which is what he was talking about in the interview. Because think about balloonarism. This dream, all this talk of sleep, the dream, the hallucinations and all that encapsulating a lifetime, literally, his words, not mine, ending with this very clear depiction of him falling asleep, literally falling asleep to his own music. But within the song itself, we feel that kind of transition occurring in those last six minutes. And then he goes to sleep, the dream's over. And how does Good Am start? Good am, Good morning. He literally wakes up from the dream.

Josh Berg (85:25)

Wait, didn't mean to cause your pain that's needed to escape they saying that I'm sober, I'm just in a better place. I'm on my way over I'm just running kind of late and, you know, I've been through all the highs, I seen all the lows Lost track of time, I'm coming home, you know, my mind places it goes and it goes.

Cole Kushna (86:00)

And so in Balloonerism, this unreleased project, I think it's very clear how it connects conceptually to his next project in Good Am, which begins with him literally waking up, depicting a good morning, a fresh start. He talks about being in a better place on the very beginning of that album, an album that ultimately then returns to death at the end, which then connects again. If you want to hear more about this, listen to that episode. But that connects directly to Divine Feminine, which then ends in death, connects directly to Swimming Circles and so on. So I thought that was absolutely very cool. And I can't take total credit for this discovery for sure, because I read it on the Mac Miller subreddit. Someone on Instagram linked me to a post that was like a one paragraph kind of theory that summarized balloonarism being the dream that Mac wakes up from from Good Am. And I 100% agree with this theory because he does it for the next four albums, and it's very clear that he was playing with this idea before. So hopefully your mind is somewhat blown with some of these discoveries, because this is not your typical posthumous release. This is a complete thought. It was made in two weeks. It's a concentrated thought. There wasn't that many themes that we talked about. And I don't think I was, like, skipping over stuff like, he's more or less talking about the same kind of things throughout the entire project. And it does feel like, whether it was just through sequencing or intentional and their individual creations, but the Sequencing, to me, tells a story. Ish. It's not like a linear or I guess it's. It closes the loop of a very conceptual project that feels very much given some thought. How, however much thought, I'm not sure, but it seems very clear. And also like the concept of balloonism just fits so perfectly with this project and ties all these concepts together thematically with these different motifs. And yeah, it just feels like a very thought out project. I'm so appreciative that we got it. I think the final thing I would have to just re. Emphasize in relationship to hearing it after Mac passed. There is a surreal quality to our experience of this album, which itself reflects the surreal experience of the album itself. Mac is talking about wondering about if dead people dream or not, if they feel if they love. And Mac has passed. So technically we're hearing from the dead, right? Like it's. Professor sky on YouTube did a review of this album yesterday or the day before. It's very good. Go check it out. But he made the great point in that our experience of this album is Schrodinger's cat, which is. If you're looking at the cat, he's alive. If you don't look at the cat, he's dead. And it's like this has to do with quantum physics. And I'm not smart enough to truly understand it, but it's the same. It's encapsulating the same idea. And our experience of this album is that because when we listen to Max Art, he's in some sense alive. And there's a meta experience of this album because of the subject matter of the album itself is a reflection of our experience of it. And he couldn't have predicted that is just part of this eerie experience of hearing this music after his passing. But the surreal quality of the dream, of the drug trip and then our experience and it. And that encapsulating a lifetime, our experience of the art is now in my mind, inseparable from the art because we. I don't know if I'm. I'm even articulating this clearly, but I think you. I think you feel it when you listen to it. That's the eerie feeling, particularly with this album. I think more than circles, it's. It's just one of those things, you know, like there's a. The idea that God is the ultimate artist. If you don't believe in God, consciousness, life, existence, the ultimate artist. This is just a. A tragic coincidence that leads to this very surreal experience of a beautiful album that I'M so thankful that we got. And every time we listen to it, we are connected. We're connected to him through the art, and it's beautiful. Thank you, guys for listening. Talk to you next week. Sa go.