The TDE Song Draft

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dissect - "The TDE Song Draft"

Episode Information:

• Title: The TDE Song Draft
• Release Date: May 13, 2025
• Host: Cole Kushna
• Guest(s): Curtis King (King Green) and Kendrick Lamar

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Introduction and Overview (00:00 - 04:11)

Cole Kushna opens the episode by welcoming listeners to "Dissect," introducing the focus on Top Dawg Entertainment (TDE), one of the most influential hip-hop labels of the 21st century. He highlights the episode's structure—a song draft where he and his guests select their favorite tracks from TDE's extensive catalog. Joining him is Curtis King, known as King Green, a rapper and producer who co-hosts the Rap Latte podcast.

Kendrick Lamar shares an emotional anecdote at the very start, reflecting on creating a beat the same day as his grandfather's funeral, emphasizing the deep emotional connection behind his music (00:00).

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TDE's Dominance in the Music Industry (04:11 - 07:14)

Cole Kushna presents impressive statistics about TDE's impact over the past 15 years, citing:

• 41 total projects on Spotify with 58 billion streams.
• Seven number one albums and 11 top five albums.
• 30 projects charted on Billboard 200, representing 73% of their output.

He underscores TDE's evolution beyond hip-hop, noting artists like SZA and Ray Vaughan who are branching into new genres, solidifying TDE's reputation as a versatile and enduring label.

Curtis King attributes TDE's success to their structured approach and genuine care for music quality:

"They have a structure in place and a care. ... This lasts long because they have been consistently promoting high quality." (04:11)

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Understanding TDE's Consistency and Authenticity (07:14 - 15:03)

Curtis King discusses TDE's strategic planning and authentic brand, comparing it to trusted indie labels like Epitaph Records. He emphasizes the trust listeners place in TDE, knowing any new artist they sign will deliver quality music.

Kendrick Lamar elaborates on TDE's disciplined environment, likening the label's operation to a well-coordinated football team even in their early independent days:

"From the very first invitation into the studio... they moved like a football team." (07:14)

This disciplined approach, combined with authenticity, ensures that TDE remains a respected name in the music industry, consistently producing influential and high-quality projects.

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Setting Up the Song Draft (15:03 - 22:43)

Cole Kushna introduces the draft format, explaining that each participant will select a "starting five" of their favorite TDE songs across four categories:

1. Hit Song (Platinum or higher)
2. Collaborative Track (featuring two or more TDE artists)
3. Deep Cut (released between 2004-2012, excluding "Good Kid, M.A.A.D City")
4. Free Space (personal favorites outside the above categories)

Rules:

• Only one song per artist, excluding featured appearances.
• No duplicate selections.
• Snake order draft with Cole drafting third.

The draft kicks off with TDE trivia to determine the initial pick order, showcasing the hosts' deep knowledge of TDE's history.

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TDE Trivia and Draft Order (10:36 - 15:03)

Cole Kushna challenges Curtis King and Kendrick Lamar with TDE-related trivia:

1. First TDE Mixtape (May 2006):

   • Question: What was the name of J. Cole's first mixtape?
   • Options: A) No Sleep Till NYC, B) Watts Finest Volume One, C) The Nickerson Files
   • Answer: B) Watts Finest Volume One (11:24)

2. How Kendrick Lamar was Discovered by TDE:

   • Options: A) Rapped for Punch on the street, B) Dave Free played his mixtape to Top Dawg, C) Top Dawg heard him at a local cipher
   • Answer: B) Dave Free played his mixtape for Top Dawg (12:22)

3. TDE's First Number One Album on Billboard 200:

   • Options: A) Oxymoron, B) Good Kid, M.A.A.D City, C) To Pimp a Butterfly
   • Answer: A) Oxymoron (13:36)

Curtis King correctly answers the first two questions, earning the first pick in the draft.

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Draft Selections and Discussions (22:43 - 89:18)

1. Curtis King's First Pick: "Collard Greens" by Schoolboy Q ft. Kendrick Lamar (14:32 - 16:46)

Curtis selects "Collard Greens," a collaborative track between Schoolboy Q and Kendrick Lamar, highlighting its unique beat and originality. He praises Schoolboy Q's authentic artistry and his ability to create something fresh without following mainstream trends.

"This day, that's one of the most unique, popular songs I've ever heard... Schoolboy Q is the most authentically original rapper." (15:03)

Kendrick Lamar concurs, mentioning that "Collard Greens" was his choice and plans to delve deeper into the song's nuances.

2. Curtis King's Second Pick: "Get Out the Way" by J. Cole (16:22 - 19:00)

Curtis chooses "Get Out the Way" as a hit song, appreciating its high quality and production. He emphasizes how the song celebrates J. Cole's journey without forcing mainstream appeal, maintaining TDE's authentic sound.

"They didn't try to make J. Cole go mainstream. Mainstream went J. Cole." (17:53)

3. Curtis King's Third Pick: "Black Lip Bastard" Remix by Absol ft. Black Hippy (18:52 - 24:06)

Curtis selects a deep cut remix of "Black Lip Bastard," appreciating its Wu-Tang-inspired flavor and lyrical complexity. He highlights the chemistry between Absol and other artists, such as Schoolboy Q, and discusses the song's intricate wordplay and storytelling.

"It's just back to back verses and everyone's rapping their ass off and just kind of elevating each other." (19:00)

Kendrick Lamar adds context about the song's creation, noting the disciplined approach TDE fosters among its artists.

4. Curtis King's Fourth Pick: "Flat Shasta" by Ray Vaughan (24:46 - 30:15)

Curtis opts for "Flat Shasta," praising Ray Vaughan's vulnerability and storytelling. He discusses the song's metaphorical depth, addressing themes like mental health and familial relationships with emotional resonance.

"Mama, you need meds for schizo, but you won't take it... A black woman who's crying for help." (26:15)

Kendrick Lamar agrees, highlighting the album's thematic consistency and production quality, reinforcing TDE's commitment to authentic and impactful music.

5. Curtis King's Fifth Pick: "Do Better" by Absol (45:25 - 48:25)

Curtis selects "Do Better," a personal favorite that combines lyrical depth with a hit-worthy chorus. He admires Absol's ability to convey vulnerability and growth without alienating his core audience.

"It's about doing better in all ways... it's a perfect mid-range song for Absol." (45:25)

Cole Kushna adds insights into the song's wordplay and how it balances personal narrative with broad appeal, emphasizing the emotional honesty embedded in the lyrics.

6. Curtis King's Sixth Pick: "No More Hiding" by Scissor (78:02 - 84:33)

Curtis chooses "No More Hiding" by Scissor, celebrating her artistic maturity and emotional depth. He contrasts this track with her previous work, highlighting her growth and ability to authentically express her desires and vulnerabilities.

"No more hiding... I'm not gonna hide myself from wanting somebody." (79:42)

Cole Kushna praises the song's storytelling and musical authenticity, noting its seamless blend of old-school vibes with modern production.

7. Curtis King's Final Pick: "Rigam Mortis" by Schoolboy Q (79:52 - 82:24)

Curtis selects "Rigam Mortis," appreciating Schoolboy Q's exceptional rapping skills and the song's complex production. He commends the track for showcasing Schoolboy Q's dedication to elevating his craft beyond mere technical prowess.

"Very few rappers actually make it... Takes actual patience more than anything." (80:20)

Kendrick Lamar echoes the sentiment, lauding the song's instrumental complexity and Schoolboy Q's lyrical mastery.

8. Curtis King's Last Pick: "Broken Clocks" by SZA (85:46 - 89:18)

Curtis picks "Broken Clocks" as his final selection, admiring SZA's ability to blend personal storytelling with mainstream appeal. He emphasizes the song's emotional depth and SZA's unique vocal improvisation, which sets her apart in the music industry.

"It's about being busy, working two jobs, and not having time for love... Nothing but love for you." (84:25)

Kendrick Lamar and Cole Kushna both praise the track's authentic emotion and seamless production, highlighting its representation of TDE's versatile and impactful artistry.

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Final Thoughts and Reflections on TDE (89:18 - End)

As the draft concludes, Cole Kushna and Curtis King reflect on TDE's enduring legacy and the strong familial bonds within the label. They commend TDE's ability to maintain authenticity while adapting to industry changes, ensuring sustained relevance and influence.

Curtis King draws parallels between TDE and legendary labels like Motown, foreseeing TDE's place in music history due to their consistent quality and strategic growth.

Kendrick Lamar expresses gratitude for being part of the podcast, emphasizing TDE's disciplined work ethic and the protective, brotherly relationships that have kept the label unified despite external pressures and challenges.

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Notable Quotes:

• Kendrick Lamar (00:00):

  "I made that particular beat the same day as my grandfather's funeral... no idea it would land as a song that is like a fan favorite of souls."

• Curtis King (04:11):

  "Even if I'm completely outside of TDE and all I know is that I'm going to get quality music from this label... [it] comes from 15 years of you consistently promoting high quality."

• Kendrick Lamar (07:14):

  "From the very first invitation into the studio... they moved like a football team."

• Curtis King (15:03):

  "This day, that's one of the most unique, popular songs I've ever heard... Schoolboy Q is the most authentically original rapper."

• Curtis King (45:25):

  "It's about doing better in all ways... it's a perfect mid-range song for Absol."

• Curtis King (78:47):

  "Trying to hide myself from wanting somebody... It's leaps and bounds beyond control."

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Conclusion

In "The TDE Song Draft," Cole Kushna, along with Curtis King and Kendrick Lamar, delves deep into Top Dawg Entertainment's rich catalog, celebrating its diverse and impactful music. Through thoughtful selections and insightful discussions, the episode highlights TDE's unwavering commitment to authenticity, quality, and strategic growth, cementing its status as a powerhouse in the modern music landscape. The collaborative spirit and familial bonds within the label not only fostered legendary projects but also continue to inspire and influence the broader hip-hop community.

Transcript

[Kendrick Lamar]

I made that particular beat the same day as my grandfather's funeral. And so I came home with the intent of literally allowing emotion to change the decision making on that production. Everything from the soul, the sample that I chose to the drums, to the bass line, to all that stuff and had no idea it would land as a song that is like a fan favorite of souls.

[Cole Kushna]

Welcome everyone to Dissect. I'm your host, Cole Kushna. Our Mr. Morale season will be returning next week for the Count Me out episode. Thank you everyone for your patience, but I am very excited about today's episode, a TDE song draft where we're celebrating the most consequential hip hop music label of the 21st century by drafting our favorite songs from their incredibly deep catalog. Joining me for today's draft is rapper, producer and one half of the rap latte podcast, King Green. Welcome back to the show, Green.

[Curtis King]

Thank you for having me. Always down to talk hip hop and.

[Cole Kushna]

Joining Dissect for the first time is rapper, creator and producer who has worked with a handful of TD artists directly, Curtis King. What's up Curtis, man, What's up?

[Kendrick Lamar]

How you doing? Thank you so much for the invitation. Honored to be here.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, thanks for both of you guys joining the show. Going to do the draft in a, in a second. But I wanted to start the conversation off just talking about TDE a little bit in general and to kind of tee up that conversation. I wanted to start with some kind of just some bullet point facts to just kind of convey how dominant they have been for the past, what, 15 years. I had my friend over at Hip Hop by the Numbers accumulate some stats for us. Hip Hop by the Numbers is a great social media account, does all kinds of cool stats statistics around music and albums and, and labels. And so here's how, just how dominant they've been for the past 15 years. They have 41 total projects and on Spotify alone they have a generated 58 billion streams. That is 1.4 billion across 40, an average of 1.4 billion. That's just on Spotify. That's not Apple, that's not YouTube. That's just Spotify. They have seven number one albums, they have 11 top five albums. They have 30 projects that have charted on the two Billboard 200 chart which is 73% of their total output has charted, which is insane. And they're not going anywhere anytime soon. They have the number. SZA's SOS is back on number, the number one album again. The time of recording this. SZA and Kendrick are on this huge stadium tour, doi just won a Grammy for rap album of the year, One of the most exciting new artists that we have across all genres. And Ray Vaughan just dropped what is my personal rap album of the year so far in the Good, the Bad and the dollar menu. So we are just witnessing an incredible run across hip hop. And I mean, with Dochi, with sza, with, you know, some of these, they're kind of branching out into. Into new genres. This is just a music label. They're no longer just a hip hop label. So, Green, I want to start with you. What is it about. What do you see from a. A distance with TDE that has made them this dominant for this long?

[Curtis King]

It seems like they have a structure in place and a care. So when I say structures, like a consistency, like, that can't happen without, like, strategy and plan. Like, you just can't. You can't be consistent without, like a plan and strategy and then the care, it feels like they care about the music before they put it out. So that brand being translated to us, it's completely. Has been translated. I'm completely outside of tde and all I know is that I'm going to get quality music from this label, even if I don't even like, like, I might never heard of this artist before. I'm like, this guy must be quality, I assume. And that comes from 15 years of you consistently promoting high quality. Just been like that.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. For me, it's like I remember when I was like in middle school and I was like, really? I was in my like, punk rock phase. And this is pre streaming. This is pre, like, this is when you had to spend money to, you know, buy albums. So every album that you purchased actually counted. You know, you had to really, like, pick and choose. Especially when you.

[Curtis King]

Oh, my God, you buy albums.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. So, but I remember you would get. I would get these catalogs from like, Epitaph Records or like Lookout Records. These like, indie punk SCA labels. And like, because they were signed to these labels you trusted and just giving them, you know, you would just buy Blind. Okay. This new artist is on Lookout Records. And I love all every other artist on Lookout records. Let me pay 15. I've never even heard a song by this band before. But I. I just expect a certain quality level with this record label. And it feels like TDE is like really the only. The really the only label that I can think of in the. In the modern day that I have the same kind of affinity and trust in. To your point, Green, about just like, anyone they sign, I'm like, okay, I'm in. I'm in. Until they prove me differently. Right. Just because they have that history. Curtis, I'm wondering, since you were and maybe give a little bit of background about your workings with some of the TDU artists, particularly in those early days, I'm wondering along with that, was there anything when you're working with them so, so closely in those early days that you saw that kind of told you before they were proven on a mass scale, you know, that. That kind of showed you, okay, these guys are a little bit different than what I'm used to.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Right. So my initial introduction to TDE was working as a producer with an artist named Absolutely. And I remember when he first got signed over there, you know, he told me that things were going to be very different for him and in turn, anybody who worked with him. But I could just say this. From the very first invitation into the studio, one thing that I saw there that I did not see in probably 95% of the environments that I went to, was the type of discipline they established. Right. Even in those very early years, it was almost as if. Even if they couldn't tell you the specifics of where they would be, they knew they would be somewhere. Right. And this is before the Draco sign is before Interscope, before all of that stuff as an independent brand, they moved like a football team. And that was something that, even as I was an artist and a producer on an independent label, we would. We would try our best to kind of follow suit and mirror that, because I just had never saw anything like that. So some of this is very surprising to see. I mean, I guess this brand of hip hop that usually is very niche and very, you know, to hip hop heads be embraced by the rest of the world is surprising at times. But then at the same time, when I think about how hard they worked, it's not really a surprise. They. The catalog, before the rest of the world knew. Kendrick, his catalog is absolutely ridiculous. But that goes for the majority of them, is that they really use that environment to work.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, I love that. It's. They're so successful, yet they. They've remained authentic through every iteration of new music trends. Right. They have just stuck to their own formula, played the game here and there like as you should and as you need to to survive, but more or less like feels like the same kind of grassroots. There's still that core. You can feel it in the artists that they sign and the projects that they put out. That core never has at least from afar, has just never left the imprint. And to not cash out, as you've seen so many artists and labels do with their brand to remain authentic, I think goes a long way into how they've lasted this long. But let's jump into the draft because I think the draft will facilitate a lot of discussion around specific artists, specific eras, albums, etc. So let me lay out the. The rules of the draft for the listeners, and then we're going to do a little bit of trivia. I'm going to surprise you guys with some tde trivia to. To determine our draft order. So this is a song draft, if you've not heard one of these before, is essentially, we're going to be picking a starting five. So think of like a basketball team starting five. And so each of us is going to draft a quote unquote team of five songs from the tde catalog. And there's five different categories, or actually four categories that we're going to draft from. So we're each required to draft from one category each of these categories at least once. So the categories are hit song, so platinum song or bigger one. Collaborative tracks, meaning two or more TD artists on the same track record. One deep cut, which is I'm defining as released between 2004-2012, but not good kid mad city. Good kid mad city is kind of the line I'm drawing there. And then we each get two free spaces, meaning just two personal favorites that don't fall into any category. Two rules. We cannot select one song from more than Sorry. We cannot select more than one song from any single artist. For example, you can't have more than two songs. You can't have more than one song from kendrick as the lead artist. However, you can have one kendrick song and one kendrick feature. Rule number two, you can draft from any category at any time, but you can't select a song that someone else has picked. So any questions about the format before we get into draft order?

[Kendrick Lamar]

No?

[Cole Kushna]

All right.

[Curtis King]

Pretty clean.

[Cole Kushna]

We're going to do snake. Snake order draft. You guys know snake order in terms of. It's going to go 1, 2, 3. And then the person with the third pick, the order will reverse. So then I'll go 3, 2, 1, 1, 2, 3. Just snake order draft. And I'm going to go third. I'll just draft third because I want to do a little bit of TDE trivia to see who gets the. The first pick in the draft. So we're going to do the first. I have a handful of questions already. Curtis got a little bit of an advantage here, but I have no idea.

[Kendrick Lamar]

What you're talking about.

[Cole Kushna]

These are all blind questions and they're a little bit tricky. So we're going to go first person to get two questions, right. It's going to get that first pick and I have. We're going to. I'm going to start it with just an open ended question. But then I do have multiple choice if no one just knows the answer outright. And so just call out the call to answer if you know it, first person to call it out will get the point. Okay, so question number one. J Rock released his first mixtape in May of 2006, which was the first TDE release. What was the name of this mixtape? Multiple choice. Okay, A no Sleep Till nyc B Watts Finest Volume one, or C the Nickerson Files.

[Kendrick Lamar]

No Sleep Till nyc.

[Cole Kushna]

Nope, nope. Green, that was number two. The Watts Watts Finest, Volume one. Yeah.

[Curtis King]

Okay.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, okay, point for green. No Sleep till NYC was. I think it's technically his fourth because he did three volumes of Watts Finest.

[Kendrick Lamar]

That's what he was.

[Cole Kushna]

And Nickerson Files was volume two. And for the record, I didn't know this till I looked it up. So.

[Curtis King]

Okay, Curtis basically gave me that one.

[Kendrick Lamar]

I have no idea what you're talking about. Not a strategic plan in any way.

[Cole Kushna]

All right, question number two. How did Kendrick Lamar get discovered by tde? Was it A, Kendrick rapped for punch after seeing him on the street? B Dave Free played Kendrick's mixtape for Top Dog. C Top Dog heard Kendrick at a local cipher.

[Curtis King]

B.

[Cole Kushna]

B. Yep. B. So Dave Free was a High School DJ and he was recruiting young MCs in high school. One being a 16 year old Kendrick Lamar who had a mixtape called Minor of the Year. And Top Dog was like in. In the area was apparently the only kind of in to the music industry at the time in the neighborhood. So Dave pretended to be a computer technician that was going to fix Top Dog's computer, but really he was just there to play Kendrick's mixtape as he was, quote unquote fixing, fixing the laptop or the computer. And Top Dog took debate and the rest is history. So okay, Green, technically you got the first pick. But you guys want to do one more? One more question for fun?

[Kendrick Lamar]

Let's do it.

[Cole Kushna]

All right. All right, this one's good. What was TDE's first number one album on the Billboard 200? Was it a oxymoron, Schoolboy Q B Good Kid, Mad City, or C to Pimp A Butterfly?

[Kendrick Lamar]

I'm Going with Good kid Mad City.

[Curtis King]

Oxymoron.

[Cole Kushna]

Oxymoron, Yep. Good kid Mad City was number two because of Red. Taylor Swift came out the same. The same day. Yeah. So blocked it, but oxymoron number one, which is kind of crazy, right?

[Curtis King]

I remember that. The thing is, I rem. I like oxymoron, like, better, and I like Schoolboy Q better than everybody when he was in his blogger. So I remember that joint being, like, big, Right. So I made that guess just off of that, but.

[Cole Kushna]

All right, Green, we got the first pick. So you can pick from any category, Anything you want. So number one. Number one, pick.

[Curtis King]

Like, I don't know the value of these songs, like, in. You know, in the battle. So I'm just gonna pick the songs I like. But I'm thinking about this should be some strategy behind this, but I'mma go with in any category, correct?

[Cole Kushna]

Yep.

[Curtis King]

I'm going Collard Greens and collaborative track. Schoolboy and Kendrick.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Let's get it nice like this I'm a night like this Sword in my hand I fight like this and I'm more than a man I'm a God M God.

[Curtis King]

Beautiful. That is, like, probably. Probably my favorite TDE collaboration of all time. If you duo.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, that's. That's high praise. You want to tell a little bit? Why? A little more specifics. Why? Why that one? Out of all the collaboration track to.

[Curtis King]

This day, that's one of the most unique, popular songs I've ever heard. Think like that beat, the driving beat and the loop of the baseline. It gives you outcast without feeling like you're ripping off outcast. It feels completely new. And that's why I like Schoolboy Q so much. Is like, this. This man's a. But he's like, the most authentically original rapper, like, and beat picker. Like, he just likes things. You could tell that he likes things that feel unique. He's not trying to make what's hot. And most people kind of go with the grain. You know what I'm saying? And he goes completely against it. So that beat is. And then he makes hot out of it. That's the craziest thing about it. It's like I'm gonna make something actually hot out of this weird beat.

[Cole Kushna]

So, yeah, I love his cadence structure on his verse, too. It's like. Like the. Just the rhyme structure is really unique. So unique to Schoolboy. You like this song, Curtis?

[Kendrick Lamar]

Yeah, it was actually my damn choice.

[Cole Kushna]

Oh, that's good strategy from Green, then.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Now I gotta dig into my back.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, so number two is Curtis. Pick any. Any category. What are we going with?

[Kendrick Lamar]

Let's go with a hit song, and I'm gonna check one that I think is going to be a sleeper in this category. Take J Rock. Win. Get out the way get out the.

[Curtis King]

Way get out the way yeah, yeah.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Get out the way get the up.

[Cole Kushna]

On my way up okay, okay yeah.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Yeah I think aside from it just being a song, that it's just high quality in itself. I think the statement it made for it coming full circle after we saw the success of Kendrick, we saw the success of his TDE peers. Being that it's a song that goes right back to the foundation of where most people were introduced to td. My first introduction, even through working with soul, was seeing J Rock really get that push, do his song with Wayne and be one of those artists coming out the west coast that were looked as the next ones coming up and knowing some of the stuff that has been shared about his label issues he was dealing with, I believe, with Warner Brothers and being able to take everything and bring it back full circle. And then they enjoy that with Kendrick on the hook. It just. What I loved about it is that they didn't try to make J Rock go mainstream. Mainstream went J Rock. That could have easily fit on many J Rock projects. So I just love how celebratory that song is, and the production is insane, and it genuinely sounds like a TDE record.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. Just another example of them finding a hit without kind of playing the formula or just finding the line where it's like, yeah, still authentic. Still has a great hook. Great beat. You hear that?

[Kendrick Lamar]

You.

[Cole Kushna]

You. That. That song must get, like, crazy syncs. I hear it. I kind of hear it everywhere. You know, basketball.

[Curtis King]

Like, I know for a fact that song gets a lot. That's great.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, so I'm gonna go third for the. I'm gonna go. Let me go. Let's see. Let me go. I'm gonna go. My posse cut my collaborative track for my first pick. A lot of great choices in this one. Collard greens was on my short list. That part remixes on my short list. King's Dead's on my short list, But I'm gonna have to go a little bit further back. I'm going with Black Lip Bastard remix from Absol featuring Black hippie.

[Curtis King]

Black Lip Bastard.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Pass me you pass words so I can hack inside your brain See, I too have gone insane Before I fall I'm sure to curse you I love.

[Cole Kushna]

This song because it sounds like east. It sounds like a Wu Tang beat. And so it has this different flavor that you're not quite used to from a td, like collaboration track. Um, but you know how much these guys have kind of looked up to Wu Tang even I think did in. In your interview with. With Punch Curtis did. Was that where he talked about them pretending to rap from different perspectives of different members of the Wu Tang Clan? Is that where I heard that?

[Kendrick Lamar]

Yeah, that. Matter of fact, that's one of the first things I heard from them as a collective.

[Cole Kushna]

Oh really?

[Kendrick Lamar]

I was listening to records, you know, when I went into the environment and I heard, I was like, what, what is this? Oh, this is just something that's kind of. To me, it was presented as. This is practice for them, discipline. Again, this was their practice of all playing roles. You take somebody from Wu Tang, I'll be this person. You be this person, you be this person. And we'll address the song punches on that song as well. But ended up being a song that. That came out according to Punch. But yeah, that's. That was. That was from that conversation for sure.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. That's crazy. That's really cool to hear that. Cause you can feel that. I mean that's the stuff that you imagine they would be doing just like for fun and stuff. But then to hear it like confirmed, that's like amazing. So that's one reason why I love this. It's a posse cut with no hooks, which is one of my favorite just formats ever. It's just back to back verses and everyone's rapping their ass off and just kind of elevating each other. And it's early enough. It's May 20, 2012 and so it really captures some of the. Like you think of the remix to that part and it's very polished, not in a bad way, but just it's. It's more. It has a little more sheen on it where this. I feel like it just still has that early chemistry, that early kind of rawness to it. And everyone, again, everyone is going bar for bar and just bringing out the best in each other. Of course, I had to break down a few specific lines. One one that I wanted to call out. So Kendrick opens the song and he says black lip bastard, referring to Absol, which was his nickname at the time. Pass me your password so I can hack inside your brain. See, I too have gone insane. So Gone insane is a play, is a song title off a long term mentality. An Absol song. So he's calling out back to that early record and kind of saying, I've been down from day one. But what I loved about this opening line in retrospect, now, having heard the Heart Part six, when he says. Essentially says, I forgot the bar. Exactly. But says, like, I wanted to rap like Absol. He was the guy that I looked up to in those early days, and I was trying to mimic. And then here you have him essentially saying the same thing. Pass me your password so I can hack inside your brain. Like, literally. Let me see how your brain works as you're writing these raps. So I can try to imitate or do my version of this crazy lyrical wordplay. So I just, you know, that was kind of a cool little full circle thing to. To kind of see in retrospect. Absol has a crazy verse. Of course. One of my favorite lines, he says, wait, we were talking on. We were talking offline about the NBA right before this conversation. But one of my favorite genres, sub genres of hip hop, is like, NBA references, bars with MBA references. And this is a great one. He says, your basic, like cable to a satellite dish. You was running la. Now you out there like fish. So he's saying, like, you're like fish out of water. But at this time, Derek Fisher was just. Was on point guard running the Lakers, but then was traded to Oklahoma City. And so he was out of there like fish, Fish out of water. Derek Fisher. But also when he says, you was run in la, this is a play on Run this Town by Jay Z. Because the very next line he says, what more can I say? A song off the Black Album, he says, I'm a bastard with. With black lips and then black shirt, black shades, long black dick. And so he's playing off of the lyrics in Run this Town, when Jay Z said, get your fatigues on. All black everything. Black cards, black cars, all black everything. So of course, Absol comes in with just like, the. The craziest lyrics. And I can just. I can go through every verse like this. But J Rock has great verse. Schoolboy, great verse. So for all those reasons, I'm going with Blacklet Bastard remix for my first pick, But I also get number three. You guys familiar with the song? I know it's a kind of more of a deep cut.

[Curtis King]

Definitely a deep cut. Yeah, I was. I'm familiar with it, but I was definitely more of a fan. That's why I don't even have too many, like, for the deep cuts. Things other than Schoolboy and Kendrick, because at that time, for my taste, I was only a fan of those two. And then as time Go went on. I started knowing more about like absol and really getting into absol.

[Kendrick Lamar]

So yeah, yeah, it's events anytime you see those names stacked up against or stacked up with each other. So I. I very well remember those sort of the end of blog error energy that. That came along with that where it's like, oh, are we going to get this remix? Oh, is it. Is it possible that. So yeah, that energy all over that is just infectious.

[Cole Kushna]

All right, so I'm going to go. We're Snake ordering. So I get two back to back picks. I'm going to go with Let me mix it up. Let me go. I'm going new. So I'm going to go with one of my free picks. And because I want to talk about this album, I'm gonna go Flat Shasta.

[Curtis King]

By Ray Vaughn Sometimes I wonder if.

[Kendrick Lamar]

The reason I don't treat right is.

[Curtis King]

Cause I never seen you get treated.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Right if you pass me the cycle then I'm so.

[Cole Kushna]

This is more of an excuse just to talk about this record. I'm not sure how familiar you guys are. It just came out, what, a week and a half ago at the time of this recording. And I was. I have been so thoroughly impressed. It's an addictive album to me. Every time I get my car now, I'm just like, let me put that record on. Let me get. I need to keep hearing this thing. Because I heard about Rayvon just through one is tde signing, but also his freestyles like on. On like radio shows and just, just obviously killing it every single time. And viral moments, multiple viral moments just off of freestyles. And so it was like someone I was of course going to keep my eye on and just kind of throw. He was kind of throwing out singles for a couple years now. And so when it. When this new project, the Good, the Bad and the Dollar Menu came out, I was kind of expecting just kind of bangers and more, just like lyrical wordplay and. And more stuff like the freestyle, but very much taken aback with how vulnerable this record is, how much storytelling there is, how much thematic consistency developing this like food motif and this hunger motif and all these different layers that he's developing within that same motif. And Flat Shasta, to me, encapsulates so much of this record. It's about his mother, who is a kind of a recurring figure. We actually hear his mother, I think, a few times on the album directly and just really getting vulnerable about his relationship with his mother on Flat Shasta. And using this metaphor of Shasta Soda and It going flat as being symbolic of struggling, seeing his mother kind of getting overtaken by schizophrenia. In the song, he says, mama, you need meds for schizo, but you won't take it. If you lose all your marbles, you ain't gonna have none to play with. A black woman who's crying for help and I'm trying to save her. The last thing you want to be called in this world is crazy. I'm just praying that your Shasta ain't flat. And so that's just a taste of the kind of vulnerability in not only this song, but across the whole project. It has a few bangers on there, but not as many as you would think in terms of just like upbeat, just wordplay, fun songs. There's just like he's telling a linear story with just really heartfelt themes, showing me a side of him that I was just not expecting. And it is my current rap album of the year. I was. I've been so impressed. And it's just. He's calling it a mixtape, which is crazy. So, Curtis, I'm curious to hear your thoughts just on the project in general.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Right. So we did a album listening or album review of it and same thing that you said was the. The vulnerability was the thing that stood out to me. To me also zooming out of the vulnerability, the. The elite production, the top tier lyricism, it. To me, it kind of showed the audience that that first TDE run was no fluke by. By any nature. Right. And that would work then, works now. And that thing being authenticity. I don't care what's on the radio right now. I don't care what the current climate is right now. Stories that cut through the noise are going to always be ones that we can see a little bit of ourselves inside of. Right. And I think he does it so well where he allows his voice to break, he allows his pitch to go down when it needs to. He allows it to be conversational when it's not something that needs to be, you know, lyrical top, yeah, the top of his lungs does a really good job of just proximity wise talking to his. His subject matter. And yeah, it's. It's something to me that just feels like it could have easily came out in those earlier TDE mixtape years and nobody would have thought that any momentum was lost at all. It's. It's encouraging to hear, especially from a younger artist, that. That that sound is still prevalent.

[Cole Kushna]

Green, you hear the record yet?

[Curtis King]

Some of it I didn't fully get into it, but when I The first few tracks that I did get into is the same perspective I had. I didn't expect it to be like, oh, I really want to give you the story. And Vul, as well as the number one thing that I got from it is I was just like, wow, these guys really care about giving an audience a story and to. And getting the people who want that, because that's what we want. We want to build you an actual fan base, a core. It seems like they're okay with, hey, strengthen your core before we start. That's why I think it's called a mixtape. Strengthen your core before we start hitting for the fences. Right? Like, make sure you do your. Your weights, get strong. You are a fully formed athlete now. We're. Now, let's get these runs. That's what it seems like they do. And they did that with Dochi, but kind of try to get her a hit, and I feel like they stepped back and let her do her thing, and that's when she actually broke. And that's the beauty of that. This label is that even if they're trying to play the game and they see something maybe not work or anything like that, they go. They can go back to what they know, which is, let's build this core and get you where you need to be.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, I think it's. And I don't know about Ray Vaughan specifically, but I feel like they're really good about. Like, you get signed TDE and it's like, you want to start popping off. You want to release projects, and you want to, like, get your name out there. But it feels like, to me, from a distance, that TDE teaches their artists the value of patience, the value of timing, the value of quality over quantity, and just, yeah, writing for the perfect time with your perfect story. Let's not rush this. You know, I know you're excited. I know you want to get popping off, but like. Like, there's a certain way that we do it, and. And longevity has proved us correctly. So I feel like that, again, I don't know if that was Rayvon. Rayvon's experience, but it feels like, you know, he got signed a few years ago now, at least. Right. And so for his first real mixtape project or something like that to come out two years after, that's. That's kind of a long time, you know, for a new artist that wants to get off the ground. So that's something I really admire about this label. Curtis, anything you want to add, but. Or it's your next pick.

[Kendrick Lamar]

So, yeah, I Mean, once again, going back to that discipline. Keep saying that is that. I do think that that is established from the higher up down, you know, from. From Top Dog, from Punch, that when folks trust in the process, their time will come. And it's. You know, I think listeners sometimes, because they're not as on social media as maybe a lot of the other labels in. In hip hop are, one thing they should not be confused is whether or not these individuals are working right. Even artists who have expressed, you know, their distaste with not releasing music frequently, it's not because they don't have the ability to make music. It's that they can't release what they have already worked on. So that's huge, is that you do a lot of putting up a lot of shots in the gym. For my next pick, I hate to go so the complete opposite of Flat Shasta, but I'm taking my collaborative one with Schoolboy Q, Druggist with Hoes again featuring Absol.

[Curtis King]

I won't pass the weed, but I pass you.

[Kendrick Lamar]

You relax a bit.

[Curtis King]

I'm on activity.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Thought I had a laxative.

[Curtis King]

No, I ain't got some.

[Kendrick Lamar]

It is reckless. It is experimental, it is wild. The production is just insane. And from somebody who doesn't partake in any drugs, it feels like I'm going through an actual episode as I listen to it. To me, this was really interesting because I started to notice that the Friends of Mines that didn't typically listen to rap or anything hip hop started to take notice and wanted to go to the shows they were interested in. What is this energy that I don't necessarily always hear from. From this genre? I love the experimentation, not just with Schoolboy and Absol, which I think had outstanding chemistry, but even the engineering by Ali on that one is just insane. When you're thinking about some of the. The. The. The glitching of the vocals pitching down and then fading in with something else. There's so much going on. Even the ad libs, which is kind of a. A signature of Schoolboy Q, you got these. These crazy chant ad libs that are panning left and right. There's so much going on here that is beyond just the actual title. When the concept of music, it's just to. I compare it to like having Ron Artest on your team, right?

[Cole Kushna]

The wild card you need.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Every championship team has a Draymond Green, right? Has somebody that's like a. Just.

[Curtis King]

Just a little Dennis Rodman. Draymond Dennis Rodman, you know, Exactly. You need it.

[Kendrick Lamar]

I feel like this is the kind of song that makes it to where you can't just call it, oh, they're in the traditional boom bap, classic hip hop. It's like, no, they're all of this and they're innovating along the way. So when I listen to a song like this, just from the production, I think they had another one that was called sopa. Like, there's so many of these that I'm just like, to me, these are the. The ultimate wild cards that win you championships for sure. That people forget about sometimes.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, it's a great analogy. And you bringing up Ali is something I wanted to talk about at some point. So why not now? You know, you hear about them working with these same guys, it's like they have a true team. And Ali Soundwave name kind of these guys that have been producing and working with these guys since day one. Curtis, since you're kind of around since day one, can you just speak a little bit on that? The importance of working and developing alongside your quote unquote teammates like that, like, which seems very unique again to this label.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Right. I think there exists a lot of personalities in rap and a lot of different goals. Right. I've met a lot of different artists who I came in collaborating with, but then time would show that they had other plans, Right. They wanted to kind of work their way up the ladder. And I think a lot of value is missed when I get younger artists that are asking me, you know, how do I kind of level up? And I'm like, your level up exists where you're at right now. There is someone right now for me, there's someone right now that can. That if you work with them and you build the chemistry, you will be an indestructible duo or trio, whatever the case may be. That's what it was with soul. Absol was working at Magic Disc Store, which was the local store that we would all get our DVDs and CDs from, vinyls from and our pro club T shirts and all of that stuff. So I already was going down there. This is a guy that would come over my grandmother's patio and record music. And I saw what to me sounded like a young Jay Z. And I said, I think that it's. This is a very valuable relationship to continue to make music, because one, I love the music that we're making. But two, I feel like as you progress, I'm going to progress. No matter what happens, we're going to progress. So I just say that I think that that's the cheat code is that it's going back to NBA analogy. The teams that are winning right now, the ones that have been together for a few years, I know your habits. I know where you'll be. I know you're going to be out there in the corner. Even if I don't see you, I know to pass the ball out there, and I can trust it. The trust, the chemistry, the. The constant motivation from seeing people that are working, I think all that plays a role. And, you know, with Ali being there with the engineering, it's just something that just made so much sense.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. Wondering, in your experience working with them, did you ever get, like, I'm wondering what the feedback process is in their camp. I. I assume it's very open, and you're allowed to be critical or. Or give your honest opinion. If it's. If it's subpar or you need to push it, you know, it feels like they're. They would be totally comfortable. Did you ever have any.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Yeah, yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Did you have.

[Kendrick Lamar]

I sat there sometimes on a laptop. You know, I was pretty quiet in those rooms. I just kind of look and observe, and I would hear it straight up, and it's like, okay.

[Cole Kushna]

But.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Of course. But you have. The thing is, we can't lie to each other in this room because the rest of the world is not going to lie to us because they don't owe us anything. One thing that we can allow is for the outside world to determine what our standards are going to be. And when you see there was already of kind of a code of conduct on the wall, they had a collective mission statement that, you know, Punch talked about in our interview. When that's established, you know, if you. It's not a matter of winning over the world or the. The point of view. Everybody outside, we need to win inside here.

[Cole Kushna]

Right.

[Kendrick Lamar]

When we do that here, the rest of the world will. Will adjust as it should.

[Cole Kushna]

All right, Beautiful Green, you're up next.

[Curtis King]

All right, I'm gonna go with the hit song, and I'm gonna go with all right by Kendrick Lamar, which is besides. Besides Peekaboo. I think that's like, my favorite Kendrick Lamar song. Because as a songwriter, I just. I just love great songs. I love great songs as far as the songwriting, great production, and great lyrics, as well as great impact. I think all those things matter with a great song, you know, because someone can have a good song that no one ever heard. I'll still. We still know it's great or good, but I feel like it's. We shall overcome what's going on? Fight the power. And then. All right. And to be able to have a song that is in that, like, category, it's incredible. Like, nobody has that. I just named five songs that, like, when you. When I said them, I know people heard them. They know exactly what they mean to that time period, to the culture. And that's how I feel about all.

[Cole Kushna]

Right.

[Kendrick Lamar]

We Gonna Be all right.

[Cole Kushna]

We gonna be all right, yeah. What I love about all right actually is when you actually look at the lyrics on top of everything that you just said and how diverse it is as a song in one, it also fits the narrative of Tibba Butterfly. Like, if you listen to the first verse, when I wake up, I recognize that you look at me for the pay cut. He's talking about Uncle Sam, which is to that point in the album was the villain, the antagonist. And so you get the defeat of Uncle Sam on the opening line. And when he says, when I wake up, he's referring to you where he was drunk in the hotel room and went on that kind of like, really emotional. Those couple verses. And so this is the morning after of that. That drunken kind of tirade on himself. And so you get the narrative. He doesn't sacrifice the narrative function of that song in the track order of the linear story that he's telling across the entire album, yet plucked from out of the album. It works as an anthem. It works as all those things he said. It's like the. And oh, by the way, on verse two, he introduces the new antagonist of Lucy for. And sets that up because the next song is For Free or for Sale. And that. That's dealing with. With Lucy there directly. So it's like the. All the things is he accomplishing in one song, and it's a hit song and. And it's an anthem and it's like going to be the song that we look back to in like 200 years from now. What defined 2015, what was going on in. In America at the time? What's the one song we need to listen to and look to to help us understand the. The grassroots kind of energy during this time. Like, it's going to be all right. And so it's just like incre. It's crazy how much. How complex and layered this song is. Curtis, I'm sure you agree.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Yeah, that song is one of those where immediately it takes you right back to that time. It's like looking at a photo album. Funny, funny inside joke with my wife. For whatever reason, Apple Music kept showing me the edited version of this song. So every time we play it, we just start giggling because all my life I had to. And she's like, which version is this? But no, it just immediately takes me back to that time period. It's one of those songs that, like you said, will live on 100 years, 200 years from now. I love the fact that Pharrell is involved in that. Not just on the production, but also the hook I was watching, I finally watched his. His Lego autobiography or the. The movie that came out and just seeing what he was going through, to me, that's a reoccurring emotion, is that. I love. A reoccurring theme, I should say, is that I love how much their personal emotions filter into the music. And I think a lot of artists at times, as crazy as it sounds, maybe they're not necessarily artists or something, but they kind of use their music to escape from themselves. I love that you always get. Even if it's, you know, little fragments of. You get the DNA of the artist in that and hearing what Pharrell was going through through the time, and it makes sense why a song like that, even if the events weren't occurring with police brutality at the time, would still resonate. Right. Because of what the artists themselves were going through, the DNA that they put into the music. So it's a song that no matter what, immediately strikes up the emotions, the time.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, I think for production wise, too, it's a great song because there's the fabulous version of the song. And one. It just shows you it's fabulous. Right? That did a version of the song. I'm pretty sure it shows one shows you, like, the diversity of, like, how certain one artist will make a totally different song than someone else, Even if they have the same hook. Like, they'll just kind of go at a different angle. But also, what I love about. Almost to my same point about this fits the linear narrative of Tobimba Butterfly, yet it was a pharrell produced song. 1. It doesn't sound totally Pharrellish to me. And that's because Kendrick and his team added on. You hear Kamasi Washington playing the sax over this beat that you don't hear on the fabulous version. And so they put their own touches on it. They took the aesthetics of. And the kind of the. The color scheme, the palette of. Of the sonic palette of to pimp a Butterfly and kind of put it on. Layered it on top of this Pharrell beat so that it does sound seamless when you get to. All right. It doesn't sound like this. This out of sync, out of whack Pharrell beat that's just kind of placed on the album because it's a hit song. No. They took the time to make sure it fit the sonic landscape of the album and would never take you out of the moment of the album, the experience, the linear experience of the album. So, yeah, for so many reasons, this is a great, great pick. Green, you got. You got two back to back. So your pick now, too.

[Curtis King]

I love that point. I love y' all bringing up Pharrell on that. And my next pick. So I did collaborative. I got hit song. Now I'm gonna go with one of my personal picks, and it's going to be do better by absol. Do better today, boys Too late said I do better I gotta the puzzle upon us the I am be honest skin line with my chakras reach for the galaxy for thus after me I absolutely, absolutely love this song. It's just it. It just. If you could tell that, like, he's at a time where he literally wants to do better in all ways, right? And then he's translating that to his. To. To the song into the life and the narrative of the song, as well as it making it feels like a hit song that isn't. That's super personal. Like, it feels like a ballad. Like a rap ballad. You know what I'm saying? Because ballads can be hits as well, and that's the version of hits. And that's why I think it's my favorite absol song, period. Absol verses. Because it just connects. And that chorus is just so good.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[Curtis King]

So good. So simple. And it resonates so well. And that. And that's my favorite absolute project, too, other than now. Yeah, that's probably my favorite absolute project. Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. The chorus reminds me of the thing that got. Now I'm mixing up my sources, but I heard. Was it. It was Punch that told who's the artist and you interviewed him. I'm now blanking on it. Oh, Daylight. Sorry, I'm here. I heard an antidote. Daylight played Punch a song. Punch said, learn how to do the mid range. We're going. Keep going back to NBA. NBA references here, but learn the mid range. Like, apparently the implication was that it was a lot of, like, complexity in the lyrics and that maybe, you know, on first listen, it's not going to translate to. It'll translate to us because we love this kind of. That kind of stuff, but maybe not to everyone. And so this. This chorus specifically, or even a Lot of the bars are not as complex for Absol in this song, but this, to me, is a perfect mid range song for Absol, and it's not surprising that it's also one of his more popular ones. I think it was, it was the single. Right? And so that, to me, again, speaks to this team mentality, this mentorship, this freedom of. Yeah, of course I'm going to be impressed with your lyricism, but let me try to get something else out of you. Let me, let's get, let's try to widen the appeal a little bit. Let's work on this area of the court, so to speak, and let's like, let's broaden your range so that when you do the lyrical miracle stuff, you're going to have an audience, you're going to bring a new audience to that too. So I think that this, to me, is a great pick because if it does show for me, it does show that kind of mid range that a punch that can, can bring out.

[Curtis King]

It also has depth, though. Like, I think it's the second verse where he's like, shade stuck to my face Hoodie glued to my head.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[Curtis King]

Trying to hide to the. From the world who made me who I am. I think that is just so deep to say that, to think about that, because you could talk about the shades from, like hiding yourself from celebrity and, and praise all, all these things, but also hiding yourself from the fact that, you know, because he, he wears shades for actual reason. So that idea, as well as him talking about these people, like you said, who know who I am, know I'm a lyricist. They know that I'm gonna give you this. And it's like I'm, I, I'm hiding from that version of myself. And even in this song, it's like, I'm trying to do better, but I don't want to like, completely alienate these people who made me who I am. But I want to do better. I want to be in a different level. So it's tackling the idea of like getting more success. Does that make me lose the true me as well? And I think that's, I think it's a beautiful concept, especially for him, where he's at when you think of the, the TDA team and everything.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. It's also a thing where it's like, you can hide your vulnerability in wordplay, but can you wear it on your sleeve? You know? And so when I hear Shade, that, that, the line that you just quoted right after he says deep rest. Can't even get out of bed. Too blessed to be so stressed. You know, that that has some wordplay, has some rhyme schemes, of course, but like, we feel that you. Everyone's feeling that on first listen. It doesn't take you time to unpack what he's saying. And I think there's a vulnerability there in the mid range, so to speak, that, yeah. Does require you to be. To go out on a limb where you can hide the vulnerability within the wordplay. And so you feel maybe a little more comfortable expressing yourself but not fully showing, you know, your heart on your sleeve. So, yeah, great pick. Courtesy. If you add anything out or it's your next pick.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Yeah, I. I think King Green can relate to this, is that sometimes things happen in life where you don't have the energy to make them sound cute. You don't have the energy to get cute about them. You know, you're talking about things that are. That have affected him physically, that occurred, that he's talking about for the rest of his life. Yeah. There's a million ways to put this, and this is. It's not like he has to try to color these in creative ways. It's just he. They all are creative beings. Right? This is what they do. But I do think that sometimes life has a really humbling way of just being like, if I was on the receiving end of this and you were writing a song for me, how would I. How would I want you to say it to me so that it resonates? And I feel like he does such a masterful job on that. But Souls always kind of. Kind of did that even. There's a song that. It's not one of my deep cuts, but there's a song called Rush, and it's a very simplified approach that most folks are not used to from hearing, but it was. It was such a local. A song with such a local hit and buzz. But, yeah, I. I think life sometimes kicks you. Kicks your ass so much to the point where it's like, just say it for what it is.

[Cole Kushna]

Right. So beautiful. All right, you got your next pick.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know what? Let me actually go with one of my personal favorites on this one. Actually, let me go to. No, let me go with the deep cut. Let me go with the deep cut. This is going to be just as. Probably just as Heavy Abs A Rebellion featuring the late, great Lori Joe. Not only to have the opportunity to produce this record, but I think the more that I understood where Absol was at as a human, as an artist, the untimely demise of the loss of a Lori Joe, who was a good friend of mine as well. I made that particular beat the same day as my grandfather's funeral. And so I came home with the intent of literally allowing emotion to change the decision making on that production. Everything from the souls or the sample that I chose to the drums, to the bass line, to all that stuff and had no idea it would land as a song that is like a fan favorite of souls. But that song to me immediately when I hear it, I think about that day and think about a Lord. I think about all the stuff that my guy Absolas endorsed. So in terms of just a deep cut, a rebellion which is off of a control system which I believe turned 10 this year. So yeah, that's. That's a heavy, heavy one. That is just a lot of emotions. And then also too, I don't think that I've heard Absol as an artist. Like he levitated above rapper on that one. For me, it was just a matter of. I'm going to say something a certain way that no matter what your preference is in genre, that does not matter if you are a human being capable of emotions, you'll understand what happens when you get to this level.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, I'm interested. So what's the. Is there a conversation? So you make this piece of music that's meaningful to you and has, you know, this emotional resonance with you came from this specific place. When you hand that over to him, is there a conversation about it or is it just all in the music and he just comes back feeling matching that without a conversation.

[Kendrick Lamar]

We to this day have never had that conversation. I. I heard this song when everybody else heard the song. I sent him the. He was. He was at that point in time looking for instrumentals. And at that time I was consistently sending stuff over and I just so happened to have a batch of beats. And this is one that I just. I threw in there because it meant something to me. But a lot of times when I'm making music that means something so near and dear to me, I feel like the rest of the world doesn't always get it. So I don't always share that particular type of music. But this is one where I said, you know what? I just feel like sonically it might fit an idea. And then when the actual project dropped, seeing that Lori was on it and this is after she had passed away, I never brought it up. It was just something I felt like, you know, when it. When it's on that kind of a spiritual level, you just know you don't have to have the conversation about at least not yet to know what that is. So it. When I tell that story so that those who are aspiring artists and producers realize, you know, soul attracts soul.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[Kendrick Lamar]

I don't mean that as a general in that when you put your. Your heart and your decision making into whatever you're going through into that music, it'll find the right place to go to. And I just so happen to be lucky enough for that. To find absol. At that place in. In expression. But then also too, to be able to work with a supremely, supremely talented artist in the Lord.

[Cole Kushna]

Joe, man, that's beautiful. I mean, that's. God, that speaks exactly why I love music, man. It's like you guys are communicating without talking. It was all felt. It was all. I mean, I'm looking at the lyrics now and like, man, I mean, that's just. Yeah, sometimes you don't need to have the words, you don't need to have the conversation. It's all right there in the music. And that's. That's such a testament to exactly why I love music and why it should exist. Why it needs to exist. Exactly. For that kind of stuff. So it always will. Yeah. Okay.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Question I got only question I got why I want to ask. So this one day, every time you get on my beast, he start questioning. He has questions for God. I'm like.

[Curtis King]

You bringing it out of him.

[Kendrick Lamar]

You know, he knows I'm a God fair man. So I wonder if he does that.

[Curtis King]

Like, you know, so we can have.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Those conversations but no shout out to him.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. All right, well, I'm. This is perfect layup for me for my next pick then, because I'm going to go deep cut. I'm going to go Kendrick Lamar, Faith. This song off of the Kendrick Lamar EP, which is the EP that he released on December 31, 2009. The first project that he put out, not as K Doc, but as Kendrick Lamar kind of announcing himself as an artist. And I love this project for so many reasons because one, and I think Faith does this really well. Is it shows you him beyond a mixtape rapper. This is where I feel like you really start to feel and hear Kendrick Amar as a storyteller, as a lyricist, someone that is working with concepts, that has a theme for a song and is able to tell a beautiful story. Faith is again, probably the best example off of. Off of this project. It's a song with three verses each of them, and it really foreshadows so much of his career because each of them deals with finding faith and then losing faith when something terrible happens in your life. And so the way that he does this across the entire song and the way he sets it all up and resolves it is so beautiful. So verse one is him relaying his being bored in Sunday service and then talking to God directly saying, what's my purpose? And he's surprised that God talks to actually responds to him. And so he gets really enthusiastic. He's full of faith, he's reading the Bible and he's spreading the word to strangers. How great. You know, Jesus is Lord and savior. Yet the final line he says, felt like it felt like I'm free from all my sins. When the service was over, walked out the church, then got a call that my homie was murdered, then lost all my faith again. And you just feel there's this contrast of excitement, of feeling spiritually like excited and. And then just you feel it getting sucked out of him. Then verse two, he, he. So that's a first person account. Verse two is a him telling a story about a woman for a mother of four, raising four children on her own, trying to survive, try to work, try to be a good person and not give in to the temptations of doing scams. And really trying to live this moral life while struggling so hard with raising a family on her own. And again, final line, look to the heavens and asked him to make a better way. Then got a letter in the mail, lost all her Section 8, then lost her faith again. And so again it's just like build up to just sucking the air, sucking that kind of the faith, the spirit from this, this particular woman. And then man, guys, everyone listening to this needs to go and hear this Punch verse. So Punch is the president of Top Dog. And he gets on the track for the third verse and I was, I did a little research and he, he was telling, told a story of like how he got on the song. It just so happened that while Kendrick was working on this song, one of his relatives passed away. And he kind of alludes to the fact that maybe he was murdered. And so he, he, he's having a real life test of faith. And as Kendrick is working on this song and so he asked Kendrick to, to if he can get on the song and he just delivers this really heartfelt. It's. I full of lyrical wordplay. It's really great, like just really, really great writing. But again, it has this undercurrent of like I going through this hardship. And it's interesting because it's a first person account of exactly what Kendrick is talking about in real time. We're hearing it in real time as he's feeling these emotions, this test of fate. There's some great wordplay. He quotes, actually quotes Jay Z on the song Lucifer where Jay Z on the third verse of Lucifer off the Black Album says, I got dreams of holding a nine miller to Bob's killer asking him why as my eyes fill up. Punch opens his verse saying, I got dreams of holding a 9 milla to raise killer asking him why as my eyes fill up and you go back to Lucifer. That song is about exactly the same scenario where one of Jay Z's I forgot who exactly. Someone close to him was killed and Jay Z's contemplating do I get revenge or do I hold my faith? Do I, you know, and it's, you know, so, so him to have that, that callback. There's the layer, the subtext of, of him quoting Lucifer is not a random quote. It actually has a. Brings context and depth to the, to the verse and to the song. And then again we get punches. Punch's final line where he says shadow box in my conscious till my faith start responding and if I get no answer, just know I tried I should have never looked into his son's eyes. Rashan Boyce says the name of the man that was, that was killed. And so man, talk about a powerful, a powerful verse. And then Kendrick comes in with the final verse and kind of does what he does so well. This is like an album, one album in one song. Because Kendrick comes in and kind of ties a bow on, on all of it. It's like, okay, you got my account, you got this woman's account, you got Punch's real life account. And now here's where I give you the, the message. Here's like, what is this song about? Let me tell you. And so the first line, he says, this is for my people that stress in. Whenever times is hard, your mind slipping, wondering is there really a God? Knowing you shouldn't think that way and trying to freeze your brain. But whenever there's pain, that feeling forever remains. And so again he's directly addressing, he's universalizing this theme that probably all of us have felt if you, if you're a person of faith, these times of being tested. And obviously he's speaking to specifically to his community. And so again the final lines of the song become, but what do I. But what I do know is that he's real and he lives forever. So the next time you feel like your world's about to end. I hope you study because he's testing your faith again. And so it's just like man as someone is who has deeply, throughout his entire career, one thought about how he can help his people directly through his music. How to relay themes and morals through his music. This is a great testament of that, but also not exempting himself from those same struggles. I think of a song like XXX off of Damn, where he's. He gets a call from his friend who's. Whose son was just killed over a debt. And Kendrick's like, man, that would test my faith. I would go, you know, I would shoot the blur and put it. You know, and. And so it's like he's been battling his faith every album, it seems like. And to hear all the precursor of this, not only as. Not only thematically, but as Kendrick as a storyteller. This. This song has everything I feel like is such a precursor and foreshadowing exactly who the artist Kendrick would become and just never really leaving these. These thematic areas and his trying to overcome his own issues, but also using his own battle to help others battle too. So I don't know if you guys are familiar with this song, but I think it's the one. If you're gonna listen to any song with the song. Actually, yeah, I don't. I don't get here get talked about enough. It's just why I went on so long. Thanks for indulging me there. But it's if. If you listen to one song on my list, listen to this one because it's. It's really great.

[Curtis King]

I'm definitely. It reminds me of this Can't Be Life, Jay Z, Beanie Siegel and Scarface. When Scarface comes on the third verse and talking about something that happened to him in this moment because they're all talking about their struggles with people they lost. And then Starfish comes and talks about his best friend. Right? There he goes. When I walk into the studio to do this with Jig, I got a phone call from one of my nig, said he just lost his baby boy. And I'm like. When you hearing it, you're like, oh, I was listening to a song and now this person's telling me his real life. So I really want to listen to this song. The feel. Because it seems like the same feeling that you get from it.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kendrick Lamar]

I. I was gonna also mention man Shout out to BJ the Chicago Kid. I think that there's so many amazing collaborations that happen during this ERA with him and TDE artists. I listen for these songs and I feel like, you know, there's a lot of fans who will pick the ones that are the obvious ones. To me, these are like soul food. These are Sunday. Sunday soul food for me. Like, when you. When you hear these on a project, you know that they. You're gonna have to sit with this one in a different way. Right. It's not just a one, two listen experience. This is one of those where it's like I have to really sit and I get to sit and absorb this one. And I think that that's something that, you know, especially when you start going by the numbers of all the TDE song, TD albums that have done so well. It's. It's encouraging to hear that they all have at least one or two of those that are sitting towards the end of the playlist that are just really heavy and you gotta have to really, really sit through them to really get the emotion of what's being written.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, it's like the analogy that use a lot is the vitamin and the brownie. Is that what you say? Right. Every artist on TD has the vitamin and the Brownie. They've found that balance so well. I think of even like Schoolboys, Blue Lips, you know, which showed incredible growth as an artist. His most vulnerable record. And Schoolboy had. It's not like he was not ever vulnerable, but we never really thought about him as that, that, that, that artist. But then he comes with Blue Lips and it changes our perspective. It shows how rappers can age, which I think is really important is like these. These are these rappers that have been along around a long time. Like, yeah, how do you pers. How do you. How are you? How do you just not try to be young? How do you mature as an artist? And we have so many great examples of people doing that now, and a lot of them are TDE artists. So. Okay, so I'm gonna go with my. I got two back to back picks, so I'm gonna lighten the mood a little bit. Well, actually, maybe not really. I'm gonna go Denial is a River as one of my free choices by Dochi.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Remember old dude from 2019? Nice clean did me dirtier than laundry Took a scroll through his IG just to get a DM from his wife.

[Cole Kushna]

You know, I could have picked a lot of songs. I could have picked Catfish off this record. But Denial is the river is like. I mean, one as a song is just great. There's no hook. It's. It's the Hit song off of. Off of Alligator Bites, and there's no hook, which I love, you know, like, it's just pure storytelling, pure lyrical, like, crystal clear. I can follow the story. It's funny. It's got wordplay, it's tragic. It's like. It has this great chemistry of, like, sounds fun, but if you actually listen to what's going on, it's not very fun at all. And so it has that really great dichotomy. I love. It has. It showcases so much. It's maybe the one song off of maybe this and Boom Bat that really showcases off, like, so much of what we love about Dochi. Her versatility, her. Her kind of theatrical intuition and being able to do multiple voices, able to sing and rap. It also showcases her as a student of hip hop, rapping over this kind of 90s sounding beat, calling directly, kind of quoting, quoting, quote, unquote, Dougie Fresh with the. The breathing exercise at the end and how that ties into, like, the theatrics of her seeing a therapist or talking to this therapist or this. This teacher and show. I think out of all the songs that could kind of showcase all the things that we love about doi, Denial is a River is just incredible example. And again, it's just. It's a hit song, which is just crazy, especially this day and age Green. I know this was on your short list. So what do you love about.

[Curtis King]

You stole that?

[Cole Kushna]

Sorry?

[Curtis King]

You stole that. I'mma remember that. But the now, the now is a River is the same reason you like it, that it's like. It's like the Fresh Prince and anthem. Like the theme song. Rather, it's like the theme song in the sense that it's giving you the story of who this character is and in the world that they created. And she did that for her album, and that's her hit song. And I think that's why people resonated with it, because it was so easy to get, because the story was in the word. It's just here, this is it. This is the story. And it gave. And it gave you that feeling of, like, old school vibes while feeling modern. You know what I'm saying?

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[Curtis King]

So. And that's why, because it's. It's so hard to do that. That's the number one thing. It's just I couldn't right now make an old school story and it work in that way. Like, it takes so much to make that work, but it takes the personality, it takes the image, it takes the iconography, it takes the story that you have to be able to relate to people in this modern way with such an old sound. So that's why I thought it was.

[Cole Kushna]

And it feels organic, too. It feels so natural. It doesn't feel like she's trying all that hard at all. It didn't feel like she's. I'm gonna try to make this 90s throwback. It was. It just feels like so fluid out of her personality, you know? Curtis, I'm assuming you like this song.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Yeah, yeah. For someone who just like. Like all of us here who, you know, were familiar with the very early ages or very early stages of tde, I think this also speaks to the evolution of TDE as a label as well. Right. Embracing an artist that is on social media, embracing an artist that did have a YouTube presence. These are things that you didn't. You didn't traditionally see. Right. The. The artists there kind of on a need to know basis. When I have a project, I'll, you know, I'll appear. Not. Not. Not with the nonsense. I'll appear as I should, and you guys will know what you need to know. But they've been very kind of private about the way that they move, and I think that's been part of a huge. Part of their success is being able to not have folks who are going off the rails. But Dochi is such an interesting one because even with the visual on that, I think that was. That was probably one of the. One of the illest music video rollouts.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kendrick Lamar]

The fact that we got these small little snippets where Zack Fox is. Is being featured into it, where all these different folks who are on social. These are things that I didn't. You didn't normally see from TDE artists. It was. It was encouraging to see that. And so it. I think it just shows how willing they are with embracing the time period we're in, but also not buckling so much that they lose who they are. Because Dochi, in every sense of the word, is a TDE traditional artist. It's just that of this age right now. So when I listen to the knowledge of the river, I'm just. I'm encouraged by hearing storytelling. I'm encouraged by hearing something that cuts through all the noise. Like it's. That was something I told Punch. I said, you guys have mastered having artists that go right to the border of performative. And it never feels like you're. Oh, this is my. This is my club song 40. So it's never that. Even when it's emotional, it's not that. And in this. This kind of story that she tells, where's a lot of crazy things that are happening. Her tonality is very conversational, very calm, very well aware of her own emotions and shortcomings. And I think that's once again back to the brand of authenticity they've always had.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, even. I mean, that speaks to, like, more broadly about Alligator Bites. It's like doi had hit records before that mixtape, before that project. And you listen to Alligator bites, and it's like there is not one song on there that is sounding like it's trying to be a hit song. There's no what it is. There's no persuasive. It's like she knows how to. She knows how to write a hit song yet. She. Yeah, I feel like we all know her now. I certainly feel like I know her now more as an artist with a full project. I can see her vision more. Where before with just the singles, it was kind of hard to tell where she was trying to go. And now we just realized, like she said on boom Bap, she's everything. It wouldn't surprise me if her next. Her next album is like an afrobeats album or so. You know, she can go literally any direction anywhere she wants. Yeah, she has that talent. And I think denial is a river is great because it is a hit song again. And it's. But it by no means is trying to. Trying.

[Curtis King]

Trying to be one.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Yeah.

[Curtis King]

Trying to be a hit song by making a 90s throwback song would be a crazy idea to any label. So it couldn't have been tried to be it's song. Like, if you brought that to the label, like, here. Here's my single. They. They will look at you like you're crazy. Yeah, they may have. I think you know what to say say is that I think that TD always has an edge to whatever they are making it. Just something about it feels cutting edge or edgy. Like something about any of the hit songs, even win, win, win. Something about it feels like, oh, this doesn't feel regular. Like, you know, it's. It's like beyond authenticity. Like, so it feels like, oh, this is fresh take on this concept, you know?

[Cole Kushna]

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

[Curtis King]

Which is great.

[Cole Kushna]

All right. So, Curtis, your pick.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Yeah. I'm gonna use one of my open picks right now, and it's going to be Kendrick Lamar cut you off to grow closer.

[Cole Kushna]

All right.

[Kendrick Lamar]

You thirsty?

[Curtis King]

You boo boo. I'm trying to learn something new. I'm trying to find myself from searching.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Deep for Kendrick Lemon You. You turned down. I remember when that song dropped and seeing the conversation pick up just around the intro was. Was hilarious.

[Cole Kushna]

Was he. Who's he called? He calls that Ali, Ali.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Ali on Twitter. Right. And so of course, Twitter is going to be the first place people are. But I remember seeing that song literally go viral when it came out. I. I was just a fan of it because one. The production is one of my mentors. Tay Beast, just phenomenal. Phenomenal producer all the way around. But hearing this kind of like early morning first thoughts that I'm jotting down in the journal type of energy that's on it is what I love. He says, I'm trying to learn something new. I'm trying to find myself I'm searching deep for Kendrick Lamar. I read about Napoleon Hill and try to know God they say he the key to my blessings and if I speak the good into existence then instant my dreams will unlock Money flow like water I'll just wait at the dock and by the way, I'm gonna start finding more light to shed Like a small garage in your backyard. That's so mid range to be able to just kind of get that off. But it's so conversational. I. I love the concept of it too, of, you know, the, The.

[Curtis King]

The.

[Kendrick Lamar]

The more that you kind of rise in life, the more that you got to cut off people that are not aligned with where you're trying to go. And he did it in such a way that I was really relatable to a lot of things I had going on where just putting. And I guess that was kind of the error too, because currency also, I feel like was doing a good job of that. Of putting conversations to things that otherwise would be really casual, but putting a whole song around. It was something that was needed. I think that TD at the time was pushing a brand of hashtag human music. And this felt so human, you know, because everybody has energy they'd like to cut out, especially as they're working on themselves. So he tells these three different storylines of people that, you know, had to get cut off.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[Kendrick Lamar]

But it's a song that once again, as you talked about. All right. Immediately you hear the first few seconds and you go right back to that time. Same thing with this song for me.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, yeah. Again, it's like. It's the same structure. Ish as faith too. He starts at every. Every verse with I want to learn something new. And then kind of goes through a different story and a different person and kind of showcasing. Yeah, I want to. I'm Trying to evolve while these people are maybe not at this moment in their life. And it reminded. It actually reminded me as I returned to. It reminded me of Ain't Got a Lie to kick it off at tipimp a butterfly. It reminds me of Rich spirit off of Mr. Morale and him shooing away the fakes and the snakes on Silent Hill. And it speaks to Kendrick's like, yeah, his circle seems very tight, you know, even as he's. Feels like as he's gotten bigger, his circle is. Even has become even tighter over time and again. It's like, all here in what, overly dedicated? 2010, I think, right? Or 2011. Beautiful pick. Green. You got anything to add or you want to just move on to your next pick?

[Curtis King]

I can move on to the next pick because I feel like you guys said exactly how. What I feel about that a song. But it's my pick right now. That was yours.

[Cole Kushna]

We're reversed right now.

[Curtis King]

Oh, okay.

[Cole Kushna]

So you have your final two picks. Right now.

[Curtis King]

I want to go with no More Hiding by Scissor because I want to get scissor on. And that's. I liked Scissor before. I liked her since she was doing, like, blog stuff. But I love Scissor now. And I have to be honest with that. Like, I'm talking about, like, I listen to her all the time. She is my Sade now. Like, that's where she's at in For Me and SOS and the deluxe did that for me. And the first track off the deluxe made me. And the reason why is because there's such a maturity in her as a woman, as a person, and her music all connecting at the same time. Because I feel like her music was always mature. It was always very different and felt like a mature perspective on how to write music and R and B and soul. Right? But there's no More Hiding track. It's almost like her responding to who she was on control. Like, this woman that's like, I got your man on the weekend. I'm. I'm out here. It doesn't matter. You know, all. All that type of vibe. Like this, like, I'm free. You know what I'm saying? In that space. And now she's like, you know what? No more hiding. I'm not gonna hide myself from wanting somebody and actually wanting to. To have love and not. I. This is what I actually need right now. And I think that's. That's how she opens this album, and I think that's the depth of that and the maturity of that is so great. And then musically, it's just my vibe. It's just. It's just my vibe.

[Cole Kushna]

So are you a SOS over control person?

[Curtis King]

3,000%.

[Cole Kushna]

Oh, really? Wow. Okay.

[Curtis King]

3,000%.

[Cole Kushna]

I've never met one of you in real life.

[Curtis King]

Yeah, control to me feels. Like I said content wise to me just feels. It's not something that I'm resonating with like actual lyrics musically, you know, the song he has. She has with Travis, the opening track that she has the intro, the musically, at the time I liked it, but when I hear it now, it does not resonate at all.

[Cole Kushna]

Oh, wow.

[Curtis King]

At all. With me. Whereas sos I'm gonna be 62 being like, no more hiding, playing it while like making eggs. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm SOS is to me leaps and bounds beyond control. But some people, like Frank Ocean, certain Frank Ocean albums, I think make no damn sense either.

[Cole Kushna]

Well, you want to roll right into your last pick then.

[Curtis King]

Last pick for me. Well.

[Cole Kushna]

I still.

[Curtis King]

I might have to break some rules.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay, yeah, let's break it. It doesn't matter.

[Curtis King]

Yeah, it's all.

[Cole Kushna]

It's all arbitrary anyways.

[Kendrick Lamar]

It's always the Celtic fans want to break rules.

[Curtis King]

Yeah, yeah, I got. I gotta break some. I gotta break some rules.

[Cole Kushna]

I go with deflate the ball a little bit, you know?

[Curtis King]

Yeah, you got to. You got to. Seven championships. You got to do something. But anyways. 6. Kendrick Lamar Rigam mortis.

[Kendrick Lamar]

That'S what they telling me. Aim it at your celebrity this is.

[Curtis King]

Studio felony Ferro got me so many and cool enough for the 70s and the reason why I want to. I have to put that I was going to do there you there he go by Schoolboy Q but I'm G to go RS just because of. Every rapper feels like they could make a rigor mortis, but none of them actually make it. And that's the difference between rigor mortis and Eminem's rap God. Or where it's like, I want to show you the optimum level of my capability. Very few rappers actually do that. And that takes actual patience more than anything. Like, I'm going to sit here and actually do this so people can see me in this way. And. And rigor mortis was when I felt. When I was like, okay, I'll just Kendrick. Oh, I see why they talking about that Kendrick guy that way. I see. I get it. Because it's like it's not just him coming from Compton and him be able to rap and get A few bars off. It's like, if he needs to do this that y' all niggas do, he's going to do it at that level. And I think you need that record to be that person. Like, he has proof. That's number one reason why I put that as a deep cut.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, hard to argue. That's a. One of my favorite Kendrick songs ever. Some of his best rapping ever, and very early on. Curtis, you have anything on. On Rigor Mortis. You want to go into your next pick? Your. Your final pick?

[Kendrick Lamar]

Definitely. Well, one. One quick thing. Shout out to my dog Hmond Don. On a production, it's one thing to experience that song as is, but if you ever get a chance to listen to the instrumental, there is nothing about that instrumental that makes any. Any sense from a creator standpoint. When you listen, land it is out of here. When you see. I've seen many BE showcases I've shared with my guy Ichibondon or Willie B, and he'll paint the sounds in real time. It's just a phenomenal production. And, yeah, Kendrick absolutely blacked out on that.

[Cole Kushna]

So even the sample is like, what? Yeah, what?

[Kendrick Lamar]

The whole way through, this is what we're doing.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay.

[Kendrick Lamar]

So my last open pick, and this wasn't easy at all. But don't you stress.

[Cole Kushna]

I had to return to this. I'm so curious. I love this song, but it's not an obvious one. So, yeah, I'm curious.

[Kendrick Lamar]

For me, it was because of how it found me in that I. I heard the song. I think my wife was playing it. I heard the song circulating, and I was just like, who is this? I had. I wasn't familiar with Dochi at this point in time. Then I saw the Colors performance, and I was like, yo, like, who?

[Cole Kushna]

2022.

[Kendrick Lamar]

2022, yeah. Then seeing inevitably that this is a TDE artist, I was like, oh, God, of course. It makes. It makes complete sense. I always point more so sonically to this song in that the. The harmonies that are going on in the chorus and she's doing a. I'm like, that's why when I. When I hear anybody, you know, kind of put out those, you know, industry plant and kind of things like that. I'm like, you guys don't recognize that? This has been a strong songwriting pin from day one.

[Curtis King]

Day one.

[Kendrick Lamar]

And when I hear this song, I'm listening to somebody that it's just only a matter of time. But I love how organically this song found me. It wasn't like you said earlier, where there were certain, you know, rock, rock bands or punk band labels. TDE didn't present this to me. It's organic success and quality found its way to me. And then I found out, oh, this is a TDE artist.

[Cole Kushna]

Of course.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Of course. So I think that's why I put that there. It was either between that or Isaiah Rashaz, I shot you down, but that's the one for me.

[Cole Kushna]

Okay. Yeah. I mean, do's catalog before Alligator Bites is deep in singles. Just singles. But. And she has EP too. But it's like she's been around. Like she had a hit song on. On YouTube five years ago that's just now getting the, you know, it's due time and anxiety, but she's been writing hits for, like, for, you know, over five years now. So, yeah, the industry plan stuff we won't tape, we won't taint this podcast with that talk. But at all. It's like, yeah, you're just proving. Anyone that says that I'm like, okay, you just outed yourself.

[Curtis King]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

The validation of your. Yeah, that's it. Or you just don't know what you're talking about.

[Curtis King]

Like that clearly that 100.

[Cole Kushna]

All right, so my final pick. Let's bring it back to sza. I guess the biggest artist on TDE now, right, is sza. So let's end with sza. I'm going with one of my favorite songs. I'm a control guy. Green. I like sos, don't get me wrong. But control, I. I think that's a perfect album. But I'm gonna go with Broken Clocks, one of my favorite scissors songs. Four times platinum. So this is my hit song. Really cool production. Right. So I didn't know this until prepping for this, but produced by thank God for Cody. And it samples a song called west by river to river to beer and Daniel Caesar from 2016. But that song west samples Ros by Mac Miller off of Good am.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Yeah, you got your stained glass.

[Cole Kushna]

That song Ros was produced by DJ Dahi, who is one of these soundwave tabies, these kind of in house producers, so to speak, at tde. So I thought that kind of sample story is like, really interesting. Going from Dahi's Mac Miller song to this Daniel Caesar song, back to this SZA song within all. All within three years of each other. Two years of each other. Anyways. But it's great, great, really great beat. It showcases everything I love about sza, which is this jazz, like improv improvisation in the verses where it's like you can just feel. You hear that she kind of goes in and just improvs a lot of her stuff, and I love that you can feel that about it. It's so loose and free, like a jazz player playing a saxophone, just up and down and quick. And then she'll contrast it with this slow, beautiful, melodic chorus. There's, like, three choruses on this song, but the main one with All I got is these broken clocks I ain't got no time Just burning daylight Just a beautiful sentiment. I think the song is about just being busy, working two jobs and not really having time for love and realizing this guy was in love with me, but I just was kind of, like, putting him off. I'm not, like, not in this place in my life where I can develop a real relationship, but then does this kind of frank ocean thing where she says, still love. It's still love. Nothing but love for you. So there's no animosity there. It's just, I'm in this certain time of my life, and it's just like. It's not in the cards right now, but I still love you. It's a very frank, ocean kind of sentiment that I love. And I could have. I could have plucked a bunch of songs off control, but this one, I've always had, always gravitated towards for some reason. Broken clocks. Beautiful. Just beautiful. You guys. You guys a fan of this song at all?

[Curtis King]

Very, very much that. It's probably one of my favorites on there because it feels more, like, personal and. And real. So I always enjoyed that one.

[Cole Kushna]

And it's another hit song that's, like, not a hit. Like, it doesn't sound like a hit, hooky record. Even as big as SZA has gotten over the past, you know, decade, she doesn't. I mean, Kill Bill is kind of like a hit song, but not really because it does have a sweeping, kind of grand chorus. That's, like, the only song from SZA who is, like, one of the biggest artists in the world. Like, she doesn't do your traditional poppy hooks for how big she is as an artist. Like, she. Her songwriting has stayed authentic to her. She has a very unique sound, very unique approach to songwriting, and is only getting better. So I'm. I'm very excited to see where her career continues to go because she's only two albums in. Are we? That's crazy. I know. It's crazy. And even, like, the success of S.O.S. you know, there was some drama leading up to that, and, like, in terms of, like, when it was going to be released, blah, blah, blah. But it's like in retrospect to see the numbers that it divine timing. Whenever it was released, they did it right, because I mean, Jesus Christ, it's like one of the best selling records ever now, so. Shouts out to td, do we have any. Is that all the picks or do you have one more? Curtis?

[Kendrick Lamar]

I think that's it.

[Cole Kushna]

That's it.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Okay, I got more backups. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty much what I got.

[Curtis King]

Yeah.

[Cole Kushna]

Cool. Yeah. I mean, was there anything you guys wanted to say about TDE before he signed off? I mean, I feel like we covered a lot. Curtis, do you have any go to like TDE personal stories that, that stick out to you being around them, the early days or anything or even now?

[Kendrick Lamar]

I mean, none that I haven't told a hundred times on my own channel. Right. But I guess, you know, if anything, I'm. I'm grateful to have been able to experience what those early years look like, because you always read about it in, in books. When you see folks who have had massive success, you read their autobiographies and you feel like there's a lot of gaps that are there that never get filled. I'm one of those people that, you know, with the events of last year, I'm looking at all of the stuff that is going on and I'm like, they train, I keep telling myself, they trained for this, they were prepared for this. Every part of this was planned from the beginning to at least to have a solid foundation. But, you know, one thing I can always say is that they have been never afraid of the hard work, no matter what's going on in the personal life. And they've been very protective of one another. And so, you know, to see how much to this day, because you see how many labels and how many folks come together and they can't keep it together. And then all of a sudden we get messy stories on podcasts, things that I wish sometimes I didn't know about. My favorite artists and labels, I really respect how much they have kept whatever, because, you know, it's just natural process, whatever issues in house and they continue to make way for. For newer artists to do what they do. But that's, That's a formula that at some point in time, the same way we talk about Motown, we're gonna have to talk about TDE because they keep doing it and they're doing it. So yeah, if anything, I'm. I'm grateful to have been able to work with those gentlemen and get a glimpse on what it's like to build such a powerhouse because it was, it was that in the making from day one.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah.

[Curtis King]

For another 10 years they're gonna have to combat with Motown because Motown probably had a, what a 25, 30 year run and it's like they're. I feel like TDs what a 17 or something like that.

[Kendrick Lamar]

About 20 next year. Right.

[Cole Kushna]

Is it established in 2006? I don't think they started releasing music for a couple years after that. But yeah, we're more or less 20. And I think one thing, one thing is not that doesn't get talked about enough. I think is like the way that PG Lang and Kendrick has left technically left the label, yet their relationship seems as strong as ever. To, to the, to the point where on your. The podcast you did with Punch recently where he flew from Australia to LA to listen to Euphoria before it came out like that to me was just like, oh, these guys are like brothers. Like this is like, this is beyond, you know, business relationship. But to see how they've coexisted, it didn't seem like there's any bad blood at all With Kendrick branching out. Obviously it's, it's, it's obvious why Kendrick would want to do that and expanding his own creative palette doing movies and etc. But like that could, that's, that's. We. How many times have we seen that go wrong?

[Kendrick Lamar]

Especially on the west coast. Right.

[Curtis King]

Like it's how many times we've seen it go right. I think that's a better question.

[Cole Kushna]

Right.

[Curtis King]

I don't think I've seen that gone. Right.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. And, and to work this closely to where they're now co headlining a tour, a stadium tour together. Yeah. It just tells that to me speaks to like what we've been talking about this whole podcast is that family like core, the authentic core out of the heart of everything. Just like so inspiring. Especially these days where like your incentive. The incentive is not always there to do that and they, they kind of remain this like shining example of like how to do things correctly. Not, not perfect but like remaining authentic throughout it all has been beautiful to witness and we're just going to keep witnessing feels like for the next couple decades. So.

[Curtis King]

Yeah, hopefully.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah. Thank you guys both for, for joining the podcast. You guys got. Why don't you guys plug. Plug your stuff? King. You want to go first? Plug.

[Kendrick Lamar]

Which king?

[Cole Kushna]

Oh yeah, you got kings in the house.

[Curtis King]

Two kings in the house. King. That's why I'm go by Green. You know what I'm saying, but if. If you were talking to me, just Rap latte. Check out rap Latte on YouTube. Me and Tor, we like to talk hip hop, run our mouth about whatever, and break down the song. So. And have Curtis on as much as possible.

[Cole Kushna]

Yeah, yeah, Curtis. What do you want to plug?

[Kendrick Lamar]

Curtis King TV, YouTube. That Punch interview we keep referring to is definitely there on the. On the front page. But Curtis King tv And, man, I absolutely appreciate you having both of us on, because, you know, big fan, big fan of what you do. I love all of your breakdowns. And so when you reached out, it was an honor. So I'm grateful to be here, man.

[Cole Kushna]

Appreciate it. Guys, we'll have to do this again soon.