Podcast Summary: Landmark College—Neuro-Inclusive College to Career Transitions

Divergent Conversations, Episode 127 (Season 4), October 10, 2025
Host(s): Dr. Megan Anna Neff & Patrick Casale
Guest: Jan Coplan, Senior Director of Employer Relations & Career Connections at Landmark College

Overview

This episode explores the unique challenges and opportunities faced by neurodivergent individuals as they transition from college to the workplace. Dr. Neff and Patrick share personal stories of entering the workforce, reflect on barriers to employment, and discuss best practices for creating neuro-inclusive recruitment, onboarding, and workplace cultures. The episode features a detailed interview with Jan Coplan from Landmark College—a school dedicated to students who learn differently—who shares practical strategies for both job seekers and employers to foster neurodiversity in professional settings.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Experiences: Neurodivergent Entry into the Workforce

Timestamps: 01:17–20:36

• The Daunting Job Market: Both hosts recall entering the workforce during the 2008–2009 recession, amplifying the challenges of neurodivergence in job hunting.
• Application Process Barriers:
  • Executive Function Overload: The process of applying, interviewing, and adapting resumes described as “intimidating” and “overwhelming.”
  • “Application processes are not accessible for the most part... It’s really unbelievably overwhelming.”—Patrick (03:41)
• Interview Struggles:
  • Struggle to “mask” and perform expected social dynamics, difficulty processing questions on the spot, discomfort with embellishment.
  • “In interviews, this worked well in the psychology field, but I would answer really honestly. The more corporate I got, the less that went over well.”—Megan (05:01)
• The Social Side of Work:
  • Networking, workplace socials, and “cultural fit” as major barriers.
  • “I’d go to my little office, I’d avoid lunch hour as much as I could.”—Megan (17:06)

2. Unpacking Neurotypical Norms in Hiring & Workplaces

Timestamps: 06:17–24:59

• Neurotypical Biases in Interviews:
  • Research shows allistic (non-autistic) interviewers often favor likability and sociability, which can disadvantage autistic candidates.
  • “What we know about cross-neurotype studies... if that’s an allistic interviewer interviewing an autistic person, they’re less likely to connect in that way.”—Megan (07:00)
• Masking & Burnout:
  • High cognitive and emotional cost of masking during interviews and on the job.
  • “I can be really charismatic and gregarious... but that just took an enormous amount of energy.”—Patrick (16:25)
• Honesty vs. Expected Performance:
  • Tension between “direct” communication and what interviewers want to hear.
  • “Ambivalence is often honest... but you kind of have to mask that in an interview.”—Megan (15:20)
• Bottom-Up Processing & the Future:
  • Difficulty with hypothetical questions like “Where do you see yourself in five years?”
  • “It’s like until I'm in the system, I’m not going to know what I want.”—Megan (15:51)

3. Creating Neuro-Inclusive Workplaces

Timestamps: 20:36–28:37

• Disclosure:
  • Most neurodivergent employees don’t disclose in traditional workplaces due to fears of bias or being “othered.”
  • “Will the employer be understanding?... Are you discriminated against?”—Patrick (20:51)
• The “Neuro-Humility” Mindset:
  • Megan introduces the term “neurological humility”—akin to cultural humility—encouraging curiosity, openness, and the avoidance of assumptions in cross-neurotype interactions.
  • “I think all of us could benefit from more neurological humility.”—Megan (24:59)
• Universal Accommodations:
  • Many accommodations (clearer expectations, flexible work, alternative communications modes) help all employees, not just neurodivergent ones.
  • “A lot of these things, it’s not just helpful for the neurodivergent person, but it’s helpful all around.”—Megan (26:29)

4. Key Takeaways on Transition Supports

• Explicit Clarity:
  • Job roles, expectations, and responsibilities should be explained explicitly up front.
• Flexible Scheduling:
  • Accommodations like remote work or modified hours benefit neurodivergent employees, especially those with sleep struggles.
• Check-ins and Feedback:
  • Regular, concrete feedback and a clear process for self-advocacy help all parties understand and adjust to workplace culture.

5. The Heart of Inclusion: Curiosity

Memorable Quote
“Curiosity opens space, whereas assumptions close space.”—Megan (28:58)

Interview with Jan Coplan (Landmark College)

Timestamps: 29:22–62:12

Introduction & Landmark’s Mission

• Landmark College:
  • A higher education institution exclusively for students who learn differently (ADHD, autism, dyslexia, etc.)
  • Emphasis on strengths-based advising, individualized coaching, and a robust, affirming transition to employment.
• Jan Coplan’s Work:
  • Over 28 years in the field, focusing on bridging the gap between neurodivergent students and the workplace, and instrumental in Landmark’s designation as the US’s first “neurodiversity hub.”

Landmark’s Approach to Neuro-Inclusive Career Prep

Strengths-Based, Not Deficit-Oriented (32:36)

• Advising and coaching students to understand their diagnosis as a source of strength.
• Building work experiences and self-advocacy skills.

Employer Engagement & Building Inclusive Practices

• Demystifying Accommodations:
  • “In order to have an individual in the workplace [with ND diagnosis]... it’s not a huge overhaul... They can be very simple. Noise-cancelling headphones, or frequent breaks, for example.”—Jan (33:33)
• Business Case for Neuro-Inclusion:
  • “When your workforce is diversified and has the elements of neurodivergence within it, your bottom line will just drastically be affected... Companies that have these programs perform at a better rate.” (33:48)
• Wider Neurodivergent Definition:
  • Not limited to autism—includes ADHD, dyslexia, dyscalculia, PTSD, etc.
  • “It’s a social movement right now... neurological difference is not a deficit, it’s a strength.” (36:08)

Adapting the Hiring Process

• Accessible Applications:
  • Job descriptions and online applications should be accessible (not a “sea of words” for dyslexic candidates).
• Flexible Interview Options:
  • Offer choices: video, text/email, getting questions beforehand, skills demonstration instead of “fit”-based chatting.
  • “Our interview process, you have the option of interviewing via email. I’ve hired people without ever speaking to them or seeing their faces.”—Patrick (40:13)
• Reducing Emphasis on Sociability “Fit”:
  • Employers should ask: Is this task relevant to the actual job, or just workplace culture?
  • “Are they going to be on the golf course... and is that relevant to the job?”

Ongoing Dialogue & Advocacy

• Supporting Advocacy:
  • Coaching students on unwritten workplace rules and regular check-ins.
  • “There’s a lot of fear around [being let go without warning]. We’re coaching our students around advocacy and regular check-ins.”—Jan (47:25)
• On Disclosure:
  • There’s no single “right” way or time to disclose—context and personal comfort level matter.
  • “What I tell them is there’s no one hard and fast way. It depends on where you’re applying, your comfort level, the supervisor, and the company culture.”—Jan (49:57)
• Interviewing the Employer:
  • Students are encouraged to ask for environments where they do their best work (“My best work is done when…”) even without explicit disclosure.
  • “You are interviewing the company wherever you are trying to obtain employment, and you want to make sure that it’s a mutual fit.”—Patrick (53:54)

Landmark’s Upcoming Neuro-Inclusive Career Fair

Timestamps: 54:37–59:45

• Intentional Sensory & Social Design:
  • Designed exclusively for Landmark students, with employer training beforehand.
  • “We want employers understanding why the sensory stuff is overwhelming... we want the students to feel comfortable.”
• Success Momentum:
  • Jan highlights the importance of “success momentum,” i.e., giving students chances for positive experiences and progression (internships, gradual growth).

Final Takeaways

• Challenge Your Biases:
  • Jan urges listeners, especially employers, to self-reflect on their own assumptions about neurodivergence and to open their hiring practices.
  • “When I present, I always ask... what assumptions, what biases might you have... and just check in.” (60:38)
• Resources Are Available:
  • Landmark offers trainings and support; there are many resources for businesses wishing to become more neuro-inclusive.

Notable Quotes & Moments (With Timestamps)

• “Application processes are not accessible for the most part... It’s really unbelievably overwhelming.” —Patrick (03:41)
• “Ambivalence is often honest... but you kind of have to mask that in an interview.” —Megan (15:20)
• “I think all of us could benefit from more neurological humility.” —Megan (24:59)
• “Curiosity opens space, whereas assumptions close space.” —Megan (28:58)
• “When your workforce is diversified and has the elements of neurodivergence within it, your bottom line will just drastically be affected…” —Jan Coplan (33:48)
• “Success momentum... our students need little stepping stones of feeling successful.” —Jan Coplan (57:40)
• “What assumptions, what biases might you have that you might not be aware that you have... just check in.” —Jan Coplan (60:38)

Key Takeaways for Listeners

• For Neurodivergent Job Seekers:

  • Seek environments open to flexibility and advocacy.
  • You have strengths—don’t be afraid to ask for what you need to do your best work.
  • Disclosure is personal; do what feels safe and right for you.

• For Employers:

  • Creating an inclusive workplace does not require massive overhaul—small, intentional changes make a big difference.
  • Challenge your assumptions; seek input directly from neurodivergent applicants and employees.
  • Providing different communication and interviewing options is both easy and impactful.
  • Foster “neurological humility” and curiosity for better engagement across all staff.

• For Educators & Institutions:

  • Support doesn’t end at graduation; build bridges to employment emphasizing strengths, advocacy, and ongoing dialogue.

Final Note

This episode powerfully illustrates both the barriers neurodivergent individuals face in workplaces and higher education’s crucial role in facilitating inclusive transitions. Whether you’re a job seeker, employer, or advocate, the message is clear: curiosity, humility, intention, and dialogue are the heart of true inclusion.