Episode 130 (Season 4): Intelligence Myths About ADHD and Autism

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: Divergent Conversations
Episode: 130 (Season 4): Intelligence Myths About ADHD and Autism
Hosts: Dr. Megan Anna Neff & Patrick Casale
Release Date: October 31, 2025

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Overview: Main Theme & Purpose

This episode delves into persistent myths around intelligence and neurodivergence, specifically addressing common misconceptions that people with ADHD or autism are either intellectually disabled or, conversely, that all autistic people are “geniuses” or savants. Megan (Dr. Neff) and Patrick—both neurodivergent therapists—unpack how these stereotypes affect individuals’ lives, their self-perception, and their treatment by educational and medical systems. Their discussion is raw, vulnerable, and grounded in both personal experience and clinical knowledge, with a special emphasis on intersectionality and nuance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tackling the Myth: “You Can’t Be Smart and Have ADHD”

• Myth: ADHD is incompatible with intelligence or success.

• Experience: Many ADHDers internalize the belief that struggling in school or work environments means they are not smart. This gets exacerbated by teachers’ perceptions and societal messaging.

• Nuance: Intelligence and executive functioning are often conflated; while someone may struggle with planning/organization, it doesn’t reflect their intelligence.

• Self-Fulfilling Prophecy: Teachers’ low expectations can become a self-fulfilling prophecy for neurodivergent students, impacting performance and self-esteem.

• Intersectionality: Black and brown ADHD children face additional racial biases, often being misdiagnosed or punished instead of supported, fueling systemic injustice such as the school-to-prison pipeline.

  “So, all of these struggles that we have, navigating traditional school environments easily gets translated to ‘you’re not smart’ or, or the other one I hear is ‘you can’t be successful and have ADHD.’” — Dr. Neff, [03:56]

  “It’s always a question of the chicken or the egg. If we had the right accommodations and supports in place, could this person be successful? And how are we defining successful?” — Patrick, [04:52]

Timestamps for Key Segments:

• ADHD & intelligence myth intro: [01:54]
• School challenges and self-belief: [02:57]
• Racial bias & school-to-prison pipeline: [03:55]–[07:19]

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2. Real-Life Experiences: Race and Neurodivergence

• Lived Reality: Both hosts share personal brushes with the law, highlighting how race influenced outcomes.

  “I spent a lot of time in prisons and jails and I want to say like if I was not a cishet white person, man, specifically, I’d probably be in jail or prison.” — Patrick, [06:26]

• Systemic Risk: The risk for black and brown children with ADHD is magnified, especially during meltdowns or impulsive behavior in public.

  “We’ve talked about ... how risky it is to have a sensory meltdown in public when you’re black or brown. We haven’t talked about how risky it is to be an impulsive risk-taking child who’s ADHD when you’re black or brown.” — Dr. Neff, [07:27]

Timestamps:

• Lived experience & race, justice outcomes: [06:26]–[08:13]

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3. Classroom Intersections and Advocacy

• Book Recommendation: It’s Never Just ADHD by Sandra Coral – a resource for understanding intersectionality in education.
• Advocacy: More diverse representation and intersectional understanding is needed in educator training and classroom management.

Timestamps:

• Book recommendation: [08:57]

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4. Dissecting Executive Function vs. Intelligence in ADHD

• Visible Struggles: Executive dysfunction might mask intelligence, both to others and to the individual.

• Giftedness Overlap: ADHDers who are also gifted may not fit anywhere in school—too disorganized for gifted programs, bored in general classrooms.

  “When someone has really good executive functioning, they are perceived as smarter... it’s confusing when someone is, say, smart but then have pretty significant executive functioning struggles.” — Dr. Neff, [10:54]

Timestamps:

• Executive function vs. intelligence: [10:54]–[11:59]

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5. Challenging the Autism = Intellectual Disability/Savant Myth

• Cultural Perception: Many still see autism as synonymous with intellectual disability or, at the opposite extreme, savantism (e.g., “Rain Man” trope).

• Reality: Autism, like ADHD, spans the full IQ spectrum.

  “Most people, if you took a random person ... and asked what they knew of autism, ... I think would equate it with an intellectual disability.... And then there was that false assumption that all non-speakers have an intellectual disability, which we know is not true.” — Dr. Neff, [16:03]

  “Not all autistic people are savants. A small percentage of us are.” — Dr. Neff, [17:03]

Timestamps:

• Autism = ID myth: [16:03]–[17:15]
• Savantism myth: [17:15]–[17:50]

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6. Nuance, Identity, and Black-and-White Thinking

• Not Binary: Both hosts stress over and over that intelligence, success, and neurodivergent experience are not binary.

• Intersectionality: Autism and ADHD rarely “walk alone”—co-occurring conditions like dyspraxia, OCD, mood disorders, and giftedness create tremendous variability.

• Metaphor: Dr. Neff likens autism to tofu—it takes on the “flavor” of whatever other identities/conditions are present.

• Global Messages: No single book, podcast, or viewpoint can capture every neurodivergent experience.

  “This is not a binary experience. There are going to be common groupings of traits and experiences and struggle areas and there’s going to be very vast differentiation as well.” — Patrick, [18:16]

Timestamps:

• Nuance and variability: [18:16]–[24:41]
• “Tofu” metaphor: [24:41]–[26:06]

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7. Getting Diagnosed with High IQ & ADHD

• Observation: High-IQ ADHDers often get diagnosed later because their compensation strategies mask impairment longer.

  “It does tend to take longer to get diagnosed if you have a higher IQ, partly because you do develop more compensation strategies.” — Dr. Neff, [26:33]

Timestamps:

• High IQ, delayed ADHD diagnosis: [26:33]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “ADHD being ADHD does not equate to having a certain level of intelligence. We want to name that foundationally here.” — Patrick, [10:09]

• “Autism, it rarely walks alone. I have yet to meet an autistic person who’s just autistic. … Sometimes I think about how autism can take on the flavors of whatever’s with it.” — Dr. Neff, [24:41]

• “I just keep thinking nuance, nuance, nuance, like in everything.” — Patrick, [21:17]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro to ADHD/Autism intelligence myths: [01:54]
• Discussion of racial bias in diagnosis & discipline: [03:55]–[07:19]
• Non-binary nature of intelligence and experience: [10:51], [18:16], [24:11]
• “Tofu” metaphor for autism: [24:41]

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Tone and Atmosphere

The tone is conversational, authentic, humorous at times (“Autism and tofu”), and deeply empathetic towards listeners who feel the sting of these myths. Megan and Patrick balance professional insight with personal vulnerability, making the discussion accessible, affirming, and real.

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Final Takeaways

• Both ADHD and autism span the full spectrum of intelligence.
• Executive functioning struggles do not equate to lack of intelligence.
• Cultural, racial, and systemic factors deeply influence the experiences of neurodivergent individuals.
• Myth-busting requires embracing nuance and resisting black-and-white thinking.
• No single narrative fits all—neurodivergent experiences are vastly diverse and intersectional.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

If you're curious to see Jane in action, head to Jane app mentalhealth us to book a free one on one demo. You can also mention the code DCPOD at Signup for a 2 month free grace period on your new Jane account. Hey, everyone. You are listening to the Divergent Conversations podcast. We are two neurodivergent mental health professionals in a neurotypical world. I'm Patrick cassell.

[A]

And I'm Dr. Neff.

[B]

And during these episodes we do talk about sensitive subjects, mental health. And there are some conversations that can certainly feel a bit overwhelming. So we do just want to use that disclosure and disclaimer before jumping in. And thanks for listening. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Divergent Conversations. Today we are tackling the myth of you can't be smart if you are ADHD or if you are autistic. You also have an intellectual disability or all autistic people are geniuses or savants.

[A]

Yeah, basically there's a lot of misunderstandings around how IQ and neurology intersect. And what we know is that for both ADHD and autism, it spans the whole intellectual spectrum. And that is a big misunderstanding within popular culture.

[B]

The end.

[A]

The end. Episode. Episode. Done.

[B]

Yeah, so, I mean, we hear this a lot. Right? So let's. Let's tackle the ADHD side first, because I think we both know that we're going to diverge more into the autistic side. So you can't be smart and be adhd. Complete and utter bullshit. Right. Like, ultimately, where does this myth and misunderstanding come from? Because ADHDers struggle with executive functioning, distractibility, impulsivity, the whole gamut. Right. So what does that ultimately look like in scholastic and workplace environments?

[A]

Yeah, so it looks like struggle, and then a lot of us will internalize. Oh, well, I'm not smart.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Or that's how the teacher perceives us. And then we also know there's this relationship of how people perceive us kind of can become a self fulfilling prophecy. So if there's a young child who's ADHD and the teacher, especially if the teacher knows it and they start relating to them in that way, then that child, it kind of sets them up for a long struggle with school environments on top of the adhd, just the experience of how the teacher's perceiving them. And then even more so for black and brown ADHD children because there's also potential for racial bias to be in the mix as well. So there's also just, there's the ADHD aspect, but then there's also the social aspect of being an ADHD child, navigating that system. And then same thing in college. Like there's lots of research we know ADHDers are more likely to drop out of college. On average, it takes us longer to finish college. So all of these struggles that we have, navigating traditional school environments easily gets translated to you're not smart or, or the other one I hear is you can't be successful and have adhd.

[B]

Yeah. And it, that's a painful one. The, you know, you're not smart, you can't be successful. And of course there are. And I just want to say, like with everything we've talked about, there's nuance and it's a paradox and it's, it's not binary. So there are obviously going to be ADHDers who do struggle with their intelligence that, that are not successful and it's not like a end all be all of. If you're adhd, you are not smart, you can't be successful. I know so many ADHD entrepreneurs who are so unbelievably successful and then there's.

[A]

So many ADHDers who really struggle to be successful. Both, exactly. Yeah, both are true.

[B]

And it's always like a question of the chicken or the egg. If it's like if we had the right accommodations and supports in place, could this person be successful? And how are we defining successful? Right. I think that's important to think about. But what you mentioned about scholastic environments in schools, I mean, especially for black and brown kids, it's going to be labeled as behavioral challenges. It's going to be labeled as like, defined.

[A]

Yeah. Odd, oppositional, defined disorder, conduct disorders. Are we, we know that they're much more frequently diagnosed among black and brown ADHD children. And then especially in the school environment. And that becomes a pipeline, like it becomes a pipeline for school to, you know, detentions, to prison. And yeah, that's another thing. We haven't talked about that but the population of ADHDers in prisons is, is much higher than the general population. Which makes sense again back to that idea that, that we talked about in a recent episode of undiagnosed ADHD is, is destructive. Like it'd be really interesting how many folks in prisons like it was unsupported, unsupported adhd, undiagnosed. And then especially if you're throwing on top of that other, other identities that are, are leading to systemic injustice. And I mean that, that could tree branch into a whole conversation on our incarceration system in the states and how messed up that is on that.

[B]

I was a criminal justice major by the way in college and I spent a lot of time in prisons and jails and I want to say like if I was not a cishet white person, man, specifically, I'm probably be in jail or prison. I did a lot of destructive illegal as a kid and a teenager and a young adult and I got caught for it all by both law enforcement and parents and I never got in trouble.

[A]

Dang. We should talk about that. Yeah, I mean, I mean yeah, I got, I got arrested when I was 13 and yeah, that experience would have been really different if I wasn't white.

[B]

Absolutely. 100 I've been thrown in cop cars, I've been driven by cops to my house for doing illegal destructive stuff for them to give my dad.

[A]

And then it's like let's we'll just give you a ride home. Like that's the response.

[B]

They just told my dad, they're like we're gonna watch until he's 18. And that was it.

[A]

This is, this is interesting because we've talked about, and I know both in our, in our personal like social medias we've talked about this but also probably, I'm sure on the podcast about how risky it is to have a sensory meltdown in public when you're black or brown. We haven't talked about how risky it is to be an impulsive risk taking child who's ADHD when you're black or brown and especially in the state, the United States context.

[B]

In the United States context. And, and just to reference Tiffany Hammond and Fidgets of Fries again, it can very well lead to death. It can lead to police brutality. It can definitely lead to incarceration unnecessarily.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

When you live in A racist society. And you are inherently racist at. Just through development, through. Through the culture that you live in. You're going to have that bias when you see a black or brown kid having a sensory meltdown on the street.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Or when you see a black or brown kid being impulsive or taking risks, shoplifting.

[A]

Right. Like. Like that's what I was arrested for. Yeah. Yeah. And that's. It's going to have a different outcome.

[B]

Yeah, it's really sad.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, we could do a whole episode on that and maybe we will, because I think that's a. That's actually a really important one that we have not touched on.

[A]

Yeah. For this intersectional piece, a huge shout out to Sandra Coral, who we've also had on the podcast. They have a book. It's Never Just adhd. I love the design of the book and it's for educators, but I think a lot of folks can benefit from it. Where it's. Basically, each chapter is different case conceptualizations where it talks about the kind of the. What the teacher might be experiencing based on the different intersections of the different ADHD children in the chapters. But it just. It does such. Such a good job of looking at how these intersections show up in the classroom, but then how it can. How the teacher's reaction to that can shift based on those intersection, intersecting ideas, identities. Words.

[B]

Words. The third. Third podcast in a row today. For those of you who don't know that we're batching and that's why I'm wearing the same cow shirt. You would be inconspicuous because your outfit does not often change.

[A]

So, like, I'm always in black. Yeah. I actually do that on purpose, though, when I record, because, like, when I'm recording courses, I kind of like the videos to be consistent. My hat, though, is different.

[B]

That's true. Different hat. Same. Same view. Okay, so ADHD side for sure. And ADHD being ADHD does not equate to having a certain level of intelligence. I think we just are. We want to name that foundationally here. And for those of you who are adhd, who are in that shame space of, like, this is what I've been told my whole life. This is the messaging that I receive. Here's my internal narration and my internal critic and voice. I can never finish anything. I've dropped out of college. I've had to leave jobs. I've had to do certain things. That does not mean you're not a smart human being. And that. That equate. There's no correlation. There despite the messaging that you're receiving.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it just. Sorry, go ahead.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, I was just gonna say, I think the part that gets confusing is so we do have executive functioning struggles, and that's kind of a forward facing, like, it's a forward facing intelligence. And what I mean by that is how smart a person looks to the outside or to ourselves. I think when someone has really good executive functioning, they are perceived as smarter because. Because they're able to time manage and finish tasks and all of those things. So I think it's confusing when someone is, say they are smart, but then they have pretty significant executive functioning struggles. That's confusing because it's almost like I've got this power, but I don't have a system to channel the power effectively, if that makes sense. Because the executive functioning is the tool, tools, and the skills that would help you to really implement that intelligence in ways that are helpful as we're navigating work or school or just even life.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. That's. That's 100. Correct. And, you know, we're not even. We did a giftedness series, but we're not even gonna throw like, giftedness into the equation either because, like, that, that is an impactful conversation that we've of the intersectionality of autism, adhd, giftedness. And that certainly further complicates things when executive functioning struggles are in play.

[A]

Yep. Well, and these kids also might struggle with placement because they might not be placed in gifted classes because of the executive functioning struggles. But then the kind of typical classroom is too understimulating for them. And so unless they're put in the gifted program with accommodations, they're. They're gonna, they're gonna struggle.

[B]

Yeah, I struggled mightily because I was so freaking bored all of the time. So I either acted out, disrupted the class, still somehow got straight A's, would not go to class because it was so boring. And I just felt like I was always floating in spaces that didn't. I didn't belong in. Like, I just never felt like I found my, quote, unquote, like, home, so to speak, in school. I didn't work.

[A]

Did you, did you feel smart moving through school?

[B]

I just equated straight A's with being smart. So I just knew, like, I could get hundreds on my tests, I can get hundreds on my papers. I always got straight A's, but I don't know if I felt smart. I just knew that I could do the work very easily. I didn't know if that meant I felt smart, though. I just Knew, like, this is easy. I still don't feel. A lot of the time I'm like, I feel like I'm bumbling and like stumbling through life and like, just somehow piecing it together. That's how I often feel.

[A]

Yeah, I often feel that way, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Which is why I like having notes before we record. So I'm like, can I. Can I actually quote the studies and have the names? Because otherwise I'll just bumble through it. Which I appreciate that. It's important to be able to do that, too, I guess.

[B]

I want to give you a lot of credit from where we started to where we are now, because I think it feels to me, I don't know if it feels like this to you, that these conversations come more naturally now and your guard has gone down quite a bit. Where I think you used to really live up here in your head with your research and your studies and the data.

[A]

I. I think I have. And I still have this. But I think probably just with exposure, it's helped is fear of getting it wrong. Especially because it's like, once I say it, it's out there. And because we don't pre script what we're going to talk about, I don't have a chance to go back and, like, make sure I have the researchers I want to credit. But I'm also have this almost. I have a lot of fear around saying an idea and not crediting the right person. Like, it's a kind of intellectual respect thing. So I think with exposure, I've just gotten more comfortable with it or more comfortable with being like, I know there's a study, but I can't remember the name right now. So.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, fair enough. It's not a very autistic process that we have, huh?

[A]

No. That is interesting. So I was like, well, we always talk about autism, but we have a more ADHD process.

[B]

That's true. That's true. We just kind of say, here's the concept. Let's see where it goes.

[A]

Yeah. Or maybe it's. Maybe it's an intuitive process. I also think of both of us, like, maybe it's not an autistic or ADHD thing. Maybe it's just. It's a. We do an intuitive process. And I think of both of us as pretty intuitive.

[B]

Yeah. Would agree with that.

[A]

Or authentic. Like, we'd rather be authentic than like, here's our bullet list of things.

[B]

Oh, any day of the week for me. But yeah, that's. That's just my. That's Just my personhood.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, we're switching gears now. We were talking about autism being linked to being dis. Intellectually disabled.

[A]

Yeah. So that. And I, I mean, I think this is slowly going away, but I, I think partly there's just most people, if you took a random person off the street of the US or probably in other countries and asked what they knew of autism, they don't know much. But a lot of people I think would equate it with an intellectual disability. And that's a lot of early, kind of early services and early research focused more on autistic people who did have co occurring intellectual disabilities or on autistic people who were non speaking. And then there was that. There was that false assumption that all non speakers have an intellectual disability, which we know is not true.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But so I think that idea is still out there, as is the opposite, which is the savant, the Rain Man. It's like, oh, so you've got some kind of special skill, which savants are more likely to be autistic. But not all autistic people are savants. A small percentage of us are.

[B]

Isn't it fun to unpack these things with like all this nuance and all this complexity? It's like, yeah, this is sometimes true, but sometimes it's not true, and it's not always true. Yeah.

[A]

Mm, yep.

[B]

But yeah, that's an important distinction. And you know, I think that that's probably often where the superpower kryptonite trope comes into play too. When we're thinking about like savant level intelligence or like certain abilities or certain skills that some autistic people possess. Doesn't mean that all autistic people possess them.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that could be another. We were talking about some of the common responses. We get around. Oh, I'm autistic. That can be another one of like, oh, do you have like a special skill? Or what's your secret skill? It's like, oh, no, not a savant.

[B]

Oh, nope, don't understand, like complex coding. Definitely don't understand most of math. Definitely failed statistics in college three times. I mean, I just was like, why do I need this in my life? What am I ever going to do with this? I think that's just important. Like it's. This is something I want to highlight in my book over and over and over again is that this is not a binary experience. Like, this is not black and white.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

There are going to be like common groupings of traits and experiences and struggle areas and there's going to be very vast differentiation as well. And I think that's important to hold the both and which I think can be really challenging, especially if we're talking about like autism and black and white thinking.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's like, how do we unpack all this nuance if we also have black and white thinking?

[A]

Because we fall into that. And this is where I've learned a lot from Callie, Black Spectrum Scholar on this is so. And I've put this in my identity development model for neurodivergent folks is one of the ways of thinking, and I fall into this for a little bit, is we can have that rigid thinking of like, oh, all autistic people are hyper empathetic or all autistic people are just as sensitive. It's like, no, that's, that's not true. It might be nice to think that. But that, that gets into that kind of aspie supremacy of like, well, autistic people are better than allistic people or I see the sneaky place. I see it is around the non hierarchical, like, well, we're, we're non hierarchical. So those neurotypicals, they're easy to like, kind of corral into like a herd and they'll just follow the leader. And it's. That's a, like, it's a really demeaning way of talking about LSU people. Not that there's not like some kernel of truth in that, but again, it's that. It's that all or nothing thinking.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That can. And, and I think there's a part of the identity development model where we're kind of feeling a lot of pride in our identity, where it makes sense that a lot of us experience some of that.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And yeah, that cognitive rigidity shows up.

[B]

Yeah. And I think, you know, I think we're going to do an episode in this series of all autistic people are empathetic and really unpack the types of empathy that exist. And I know that kind of correlates to like, highly sensitive personhood and deep feeling and very like, intuitive. And it's just the reality of like, some people don't experience any of that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Bringing all the thymia into the mix and interoceptive struggles. And like, you know, I think this.

[A]

Is what makes autism so confusing is I think of being. You tend to be on an extreme. Is my experience. So a person tends to be like, extremely hyper empathetic or experience hypo empathy. And so there's a lot of ways that we experience the extremes and both can be true. It's just. I think we tend to have more extreme experiences of whatever kind of trait we're talking about. Except iq. Iq, it's full spectrum. We can be anywhere on the spectrum.

[B]

Just to double down on that. You know, it makes writing this book really freaking hard because.

[A]

Yeah, I bet.

[B]

I. I just keep thinking nuance, nuance, nuance, like in everything. And then do you get too much in the weeds of like over explaining the nuance of all the things? That's what I'm trying not to do. It's like.

[A]

Because then is it like a textbook versus So I struggle with the ice and I so self care for autistic people. Most of the reviews are really nice, but of course occasionally go and read the bad ones. But it. Even in reading the bad ones, sometimes that's a helpful learning for me because I do realize some of the feedback there is. Yeah, I was talking from my experience and at times definitely globalized to like autistic people. And it's like, it's really hard to talk from our experience and try to talk to autistic people and then also nuance it and you might experience the opposite of this.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, that's hard to write a book that way.

[B]

It's really hard. And every time we do an episode or every time I consume more information, I'm like, oh no, I have to, I have to change this because this is not what I think anymore or how I experience something. So it's. What a fun experience that this has been. Yeah.

[A]

Yes. Just have a really, really good forward. I really liked Donna Henderson and Sarah Wayland in their Is this Autism book. I really liked their. I don't know if it was their forward or first chapter, but I just thought they did such a good job outlining, like, here's what we know now. Here's the language that's commonly used now. It might change by the time this book is in print. It might. It'll. It will definitely change in five, 10 years. I think building that into your.

[B]

Oh yeah. Writing got it written all over the place. Like, this is just my experience. I am a cishet white man talking about my experiences like, there's so much nuance. I'm not trying to like typecast. I don't want to typecast and say like one size fits all experience. But the reality is there are also going to be people who read it and are like, this is horrible, or this doesn't define my experience. This is terrible. And that's just a reality that I am gonna have to live with and shrink away from.

[A]

Well, and that is. Yeah. I mean, that is part of the reality. And back to the. Because it's not a binary. So they. There will be people that'll read it and not connect with it, but then there'll be a different autistic book that they will connect with. Exactly. I mean, same thing with my work or.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Or our podcast. There's people that listen to this and are probably like, I'm not connecting to this at all. And then there's people who do. Like. So it's so good we have this emerging. Like there really are so many, like autistic ADHD podcasts and books and like creators. And it's good we have so many. Because just because someone's autistic or ADHD doesn't mean we're going to connect with their work or the way they teach or the way they talk about their experience.

[B]

100%. And I think the takeaway from this whole series. Right. Is again, not binary, lots of variation. Because humans are all diverse in some way or form. And not everyone has the same experiences. And whether that be environmental or biological, genetically, socially, economically. Like, not everyone has the same supports in place, like, so it's just important to continue to drill down on that. I think.

[A]

Yeah, I think the, the other piece of it is, and I think this is true of both ADHD and autism, but definitely autism is it. It rarely walks alone. I have yet to meet an autistic person who's just autistic. So it's. This is a weird metaphor, but sometimes I think about autism as like tofu. I don't know if you cook with tofu much. We're vegetarian family, so. And tofu will kind of take on the flavor of whatever, like the seasoning or whatever you're cooking with it. Sometimes. And this metaphor breaks down because autism's more than tofu. But sometimes I think about how autism can take on the flavors of whatever's with it. So if it is autism with a co occurring intellectual disability, that's gonna look very different. Or if it's autism with the gifted spice put on, or if it's autism with dyspraxia and like motor coordination, or autism with bipolar, autism with ocd, it's gonna take on the expression of our autistic traits will take on the flavor of whatever is in the mix with the autism. And typically there's many things in the mix. And so I think that's also part of why it can be so hard to nail down. Well, this is the autistic experience. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, that's really well said. Autism and tofu. I actually think it's a good metaphor. I just despise tofu so much.

[A]

I actually don't like it either, but. But Luke cooks with it a lot, and so I'm familiar.

[B]

All right. Anything else? I think we covered it, you know, the myths in general, so I feel good.

[A]

Oh, I think one thing we could add is, I know for ADHD is it does tend to take longer to get diagnosed if. If you are. If you have a higher iq, partly because you do develop more compensation strategies, and so that can prolong diagnosis or just make it harder to get diagnosed as adhd.

[B]

Well said.

[A]

So, yeah, I love when you end it there.

[B]

It's fun.

[A]

You love when I end. You like seeing me squirm and get awkward, I think.

[B]

Sure. Yeah. I mean, maybe I won't put you in that position. All right, y', all, thanks for listening. All the major platforms, podcasts, YouTube, all the things that we always talk about. On Fridays, make sure to go check out Jane app for mental health and medical care. If you need a new medical record system, two free months with code DC POD at checkout and bye foreign.

[A]

Hey, it's Dr. Neff here. This season, we are clearly talking about autistic burnout, a topic that Neurodivergent Insights has covered extensively. So if you would like more resources to supplement your learning, we've put together a page where we've curated all of our autistic burnout resources. Freed and paid resources. We have lots of articles on autistic burnout. We have a upcoming free email course. It's going to be released soon. We have workbooks on autistic burnout. So if you'd like to check out our resources again, both free and paid, you can go to neurodivergentinsights.com burnout resources. It's linked below and in the show notes. I hope you don't need these resources, but if you do, they are there for you.