Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: Divergent Conversations
Episode: 130 (Season 4): Intelligence Myths About ADHD and Autism
Hosts: Dr. Megan Anna Neff & Patrick Casale
Release Date: October 31, 2025

Overview: Main Theme & Purpose

This episode delves into persistent myths around intelligence and neurodivergence, specifically addressing common misconceptions that people with ADHD or autism are either intellectually disabled or, conversely, that all autistic people are “geniuses” or savants. Megan (Dr. Neff) and Patrick—both neurodivergent therapists—unpack how these stereotypes affect individuals’ lives, their self-perception, and their treatment by educational and medical systems. Their discussion is raw, vulnerable, and grounded in both personal experience and clinical knowledge, with a special emphasis on intersectionality and nuance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tackling the Myth: “You Can’t Be Smart and Have ADHD”

• Myth: ADHD is incompatible with intelligence or success.

• Experience: Many ADHDers internalize the belief that struggling in school or work environments means they are not smart. This gets exacerbated by teachers’ perceptions and societal messaging.

• Nuance: Intelligence and executive functioning are often conflated; while someone may struggle with planning/organization, it doesn’t reflect their intelligence.

• Self-Fulfilling Prophecy: Teachers’ low expectations can become a self-fulfilling prophecy for neurodivergent students, impacting performance and self-esteem.

• Intersectionality: Black and brown ADHD children face additional racial biases, often being misdiagnosed or punished instead of supported, fueling systemic injustice such as the school-to-prison pipeline.

  “So, all of these struggles that we have, navigating traditional school environments easily gets translated to ‘you’re not smart’ or, or the other one I hear is ‘you can’t be successful and have ADHD.’” — Dr. Neff, [03:56]

  “It’s always a question of the chicken or the egg. If we had the right accommodations and supports in place, could this person be successful? And how are we defining successful?” — Patrick, [04:52]

Timestamps for Key Segments:

• ADHD & intelligence myth intro: [01:54]
• School challenges and self-belief: [02:57]
• Racial bias & school-to-prison pipeline: [03:55]–[07:19]

2. Real-Life Experiences: Race and Neurodivergence

• Lived Reality: Both hosts share personal brushes with the law, highlighting how race influenced outcomes.

  “I spent a lot of time in prisons and jails and I want to say like if I was not a cishet white person, man, specifically, I’d probably be in jail or prison.” — Patrick, [06:26]

• Systemic Risk: The risk for black and brown children with ADHD is magnified, especially during meltdowns or impulsive behavior in public.

  “We’ve talked about ... how risky it is to have a sensory meltdown in public when you’re black or brown. We haven’t talked about how risky it is to be an impulsive risk-taking child who’s ADHD when you’re black or brown.” — Dr. Neff, [07:27]

Timestamps:

• Lived experience & race, justice outcomes: [06:26]–[08:13]

3. Classroom Intersections and Advocacy

• Book Recommendation: It’s Never Just ADHD by Sandra Coral – a resource for understanding intersectionality in education.
• Advocacy: More diverse representation and intersectional understanding is needed in educator training and classroom management.

Timestamps:

• Book recommendation: [08:57]

4. Dissecting Executive Function vs. Intelligence in ADHD

• Visible Struggles: Executive dysfunction might mask intelligence, both to others and to the individual.

• Giftedness Overlap: ADHDers who are also gifted may not fit anywhere in school—too disorganized for gifted programs, bored in general classrooms.

  “When someone has really good executive functioning, they are perceived as smarter... it’s confusing when someone is, say, smart but then have pretty significant executive functioning struggles.” — Dr. Neff, [10:54]

Timestamps:

• Executive function vs. intelligence: [10:54]–[11:59]

5. Challenging the Autism = Intellectual Disability/Savant Myth

• Cultural Perception: Many still see autism as synonymous with intellectual disability or, at the opposite extreme, savantism (e.g., “Rain Man” trope).

• Reality: Autism, like ADHD, spans the full IQ spectrum.

  “Most people, if you took a random person ... and asked what they knew of autism, ... I think would equate it with an intellectual disability.... And then there was that false assumption that all non-speakers have an intellectual disability, which we know is not true.” — Dr. Neff, [16:03]

  “Not all autistic people are savants. A small percentage of us are.” — Dr. Neff, [17:03]

Timestamps:

• Autism = ID myth: [16:03]–[17:15]
• Savantism myth: [17:15]–[17:50]

6. Nuance, Identity, and Black-and-White Thinking

• Not Binary: Both hosts stress over and over that intelligence, success, and neurodivergent experience are not binary.

• Intersectionality: Autism and ADHD rarely “walk alone”—co-occurring conditions like dyspraxia, OCD, mood disorders, and giftedness create tremendous variability.

• Metaphor: Dr. Neff likens autism to tofu—it takes on the “flavor” of whatever other identities/conditions are present.

• Global Messages: No single book, podcast, or viewpoint can capture every neurodivergent experience.

  “This is not a binary experience. There are going to be common groupings of traits and experiences and struggle areas and there’s going to be very vast differentiation as well.” — Patrick, [18:16]

Timestamps:

• Nuance and variability: [18:16]–[24:41]
• “Tofu” metaphor: [24:41]–[26:06]

7. Getting Diagnosed with High IQ & ADHD

• Observation: High-IQ ADHDers often get diagnosed later because their compensation strategies mask impairment longer.

  “It does tend to take longer to get diagnosed if you have a higher IQ, partly because you do develop more compensation strategies.” — Dr. Neff, [26:33]

Timestamps:

• High IQ, delayed ADHD diagnosis: [26:33]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “ADHD being ADHD does not equate to having a certain level of intelligence. We want to name that foundationally here.” — Patrick, [10:09]

• “Autism, it rarely walks alone. I have yet to meet an autistic person who’s just autistic. … Sometimes I think about how autism can take on the flavors of whatever’s with it.” — Dr. Neff, [24:41]

• “I just keep thinking nuance, nuance, nuance, like in everything.” — Patrick, [21:17]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro to ADHD/Autism intelligence myths: [01:54]
• Discussion of racial bias in diagnosis & discipline: [03:55]–[07:19]
• Non-binary nature of intelligence and experience: [10:51], [18:16], [24:11]
• “Tofu” metaphor for autism: [24:41]

Tone and Atmosphere

The tone is conversational, authentic, humorous at times (“Autism and tofu”), and deeply empathetic towards listeners who feel the sting of these myths. Megan and Patrick balance professional insight with personal vulnerability, making the discussion accessible, affirming, and real.

Final Takeaways

• Both ADHD and autism span the full spectrum of intelligence.
• Executive functioning struggles do not equate to lack of intelligence.
• Cultural, racial, and systemic factors deeply influence the experiences of neurodivergent individuals.
• Myth-busting requires embracing nuance and resisting black-and-white thinking.
• No single narrative fits all—neurodivergent experiences are vastly diverse and intersectional.