Divergent Conversations — Episode 138 Summary
FLASHBACK — Neurodivergent Realities, Rupture & Repair, and Podcast Updates
Released: December 26, 2025
Hosts: Dr. Megan Anna Neff & Patrick Casale

Episode Overview

This episode marks the launch of a new season for Divergent Conversations, returning after an extended break with a candid, vulnerable discussion on neurodivergent wellness, community, interdependence, and the hosts' evolving approach to the podcast. Dr. Megan Anna Neff and Patrick Casale reflect on their personal and professional experiences as AuDHD (Autistic + ADHD) mental health professionals, emphasizing the realities of neurodivergence, the importance of repair after relational rupture, and setting up more sustainable, affirming structures for their work. The conversation is marked by authentic self-disclosure and practical insight into living well as neurodivergent adults.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Seasonal Breaks and Podcast Format Changes

• The hosts explain that after a challenging year, they decided to take a seasonal break and re-release favorite episodes. This was motivated by burnout, shifting priorities, and a desire to model the wellness and boundaries they promote.
  • Patrick: "We want to be more intentional. We want to take more breaks. You mentioned having more feminine energy in the podcast..." (05:00)
• Podcast moving to a season-based format: ~12 episodes per season with a few seasons per year, aiming for intentional, sustainable production.

2. Wellness as a Launch Point

• The first collection of episodes focuses on “wellness,” chosen specifically due to the strain and stress both hosts experienced.
  • Megan Anna: "We wanted to set the tone with wellness, because that's partly why we took the break..." (05:56)
• Emphasis on holistic wellness: considering neurological, psychological, community, and societal levels.

3. Burnout and the Fragility of Digital Existence

• Megan Anna shares a deeply personal story about her website migration going wrong, nearly leading her to consider closing her business—a moment of “fragility.”
  • Megan Anna: "I encountered fragility in a way that, I, that...I hate that feeling." (08:07)
  • Patrick: "To see that come, like, crumbling down at something that wasn't your fault is really frustrating..." (07:34)
• Discusses the ripple effects for a small neurodivergent business owner and the stress of being highly visible in online spaces.

4. Interdependence over Hyper-Independence

• Megan Anna reflects on how deep digital boundaries to protect her nervous system also kept her from receiving community support.
  • "I realized...I'd also blocked out people's kindness and appreciation and I needed community support...as someone who's very hyper independent, it was such a beautiful breakthrough moment for me..." (09:27)
• Both hosts explore the tension and need for community among neurodivergent individuals, how mutual support is not just desirable but necessary.

5. Rupture and Repair in Relationships

• The centerpiece of the episode is the hosts' unflinching recounting of their own “rupture and repair” moment—a miscommunication about taking a break from the podcast sparks intense attachment responses for Patrick.
  • Patrick: "My immediate reaction...was like attachment wound, abandonment stuff. Insecurity. Right. What I was experiencing was like...Megan Anna doesn't want to do this with me and doesn't like me. That is what happens so viscerally for me..." (13:15)
  • Megan Anna: "I have this pervasive narrative that, like, I'm not that important. So...it would not even occur to me that I could activate an attachment wound in you." (16:41)
• They breakdown how unspoken narratives can escalate, reiterating the value of getting “to the conversation underneath.”
  • Megan Anna: "So wellness tip number one, get to the like, catch. Catch it when your attachment system is activated. Get to the conversation underneath." (25:52)
  • Patrick: "If we would have stayed in that content, we never really would have gotten to the real meat of the issue..." (26:36)
• Quick repair via phone (not just text) deepened their relationship and modeled the rupture-repair cycle for listeners.

6. Navigating Community and Critique in Neurodivergent Spaces

• They touch on the fracturing within online neurodivergent communities, especially around identity development and public discourse, and challenge the audience (and themselves) to respond with self-compassion and accountability.
  • Megan Anna: "Have self compassion for wherever you are in the developmental arc..." (32:01)
  • Patrick: "That ties directly into wellness...If you're in that shame space, you're much less likely to be involved in community..." (32:31)

7. Self-Soothing vs. Self-Nourishment

• Introduce a helpful framework from a fellow autistic psychologist: distinguish between self-soothing (what’s comforting in the moment) and self-nourishment (what’s good for us in the long run).
  • Megan Anna: "They're self soothing...Then there's self nourishment— which we have a little bit more friction around..." (36:55)
  • Patrick: "That self soothing piece comes much more naturally for me, for sure...that self nourishment piece, really trying to keep that in perspective..." (38:33-39:54)
• Encourage listeners to balance the two, to avoid falling into patterns of avoidance or self-neglect.

8. Practical Wellness and Community Initiatives

• They tease a new Substack community for deeper, more manageable engagement (versus “mile-wide inch-deep” communities on social media).
  • Megan Anna: “What if instead of building mile-wide inch-deep communities, we built inch-wide mile-deep communities?” (45:00)
  • Interested listeners are invited to join and help co-create this space.

9. Looking Ahead: No Guests, Just Deep Dives

• The upcoming season will feature primarily host-only episodes—guests, while valuable, added a significant energy and cognitive load.
  • Megan Anna: "We're not going to do guests for the season...it is a heavier, cognitive, energetic lift for both of us." (44:08)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On low-energy and mutual support:
  Patrick: "I'm just going to name that I've saved all of my energy for this next hour and a half." (02:56)
  Megan Anna: "...it's like, okay, here's the one thing I'm going to do today." (03:18)

• Rupture & Repair Summary:
  Patrick: "My immediate reaction...was like attachment wound, abandonment stuff." (13:15)
  Megan Anna: "That's what's so important about, like, attachment wounds...someone expresses a need, attachment injury, defenses come up...then you're off in a rupture that no one understands. And it's so painful." (16:46)
  Megan Anna: "Wellness tip number one, get to the...catch it when your attachment system is activated. Get to the conversation underneath." (25:52)

• On community:
  Megan Anna: "...when I think about all we're navigating, like the way forward is going to be through interdependence. It's going to, through community. It's going to be through building like grassroots movement and connections where it's like, we've got each other..." (11:02)

• On shame and repair:
  Patrick: "If you're in that shame space, you're much less likely to be involved in community because you're probably less, less likely to put opinion or statement or fact or thought out there because you're so concerned about how it is going to be received." (32:31)

• On self-care:
  Megan Anna: "Self-soothing...it's easy to do, it feels good...and then there's self-nourishment which we have a little bit more friction around doing, but it's the things that's good for us." (36:55)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–03:15 – Show sponsor, podcast break announcement, emotional headspaces
• 03:18–07:34 – Acknowledging burnout and energy struggles; decision to take breaks; shifting to wellness
• 07:34–11:04 – Megan’s website crisis; fragility; need for community
• 11:04–12:28 – Interdependence over hyper-independence
• 12:28–20:23 – Rupture and repair: attachment injuries and real-time communication breakdown
• 20:23–23:14 – The repair process; the value of shifting from text to phone; emotions post-repair
• 23:14–27:24 – Advice: Get to the story beneath the content, especially in conflict
• 27:46–30:52 – Heightened threat signals in the current cultural moment and digital spaces
• 30:52–33:49 – Navigating shame, accountability, and developmental arcs in autism/ND identity; community tensions
• 33:49–41:07 – Reflecting on doing what’s good for us even amidst demand avoidance; self-compassion for wellness struggles
• 41:07–44:14 – How the new season will work, intention to avoid guests, focus on deeper conversations
• 44:14–46:35 – Batching and boundaries; energy management for podcasting
• 46:35–47:32 – Plans for Substack as a “mile-deep” community space
• 47:32–End – Closing remarks, resource references, and gratitude

Conclusion

Episode 138 is a masterful blend of behind-the-scenes podcast evolution, neurodivergent lived experience, and relational transparency. It lays the groundwork for a season devoted to authentic, sustainable wellness and community building, modeling the very interdependence, vulnerability, and repair work the hosts wish to see reflected in neurodivergent spaces.

Resources Mentioned:

• Neurodivergent Insights: Burnout Resources
• Substack community coming soon (stay tuned @divergentconversations on Instagram for links)

Listener Invitation:
If this episode resonated or offered insight, reach out for community at the upcoming Substack, and let the hosts know what topics matter most on your own neurodivergent wellness journey.