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Divergent Conversations
Episode 142: FLASHBACK — AuDHD Burnout City: How Autistic and ADHD Burnout Collide and Compensate
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Just as you are always learning and improving, Jane is too. The team at Jane values customer feedback and uses it to design even more helpful features so you can think of Jane as a software that grows with you.
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If you're curious to see Jane in action, head to Jane app mentalhealth Us to book a free one on one demo. You can also mention the Code DC Pod at signup for a two month free grace period on your new Jane account. Hey everyone, you are listening to the Divergent Conversations podcast. We are two neurodivergent mental health professionals in a neurotypical world. I'm Patrick cassell. And I'm Dr. Neff and during these episodes we do talk about sensitive subjects mental health and there are some conversations that can certainly feel a bit overwhelming. So we do just want to use that disclosure and disclaimer before jumping in. And thanks for listening. Hey everyone, it's Patrick from Divergent Conversations. Megan, Anna and I are embarking upon our seasonal break. It has been a long year for both of us, as it has for all of you. We've decided to take our end of the year break a little bit early and re release some of our favorite episodes from 2025. We really appreciate all of your support. We appreciate all of you who listen, download, share and continuously send us feedback. We really appreciate our sponsors, Landmark College and Jane App for Healthcare. You two have been in our corners basically the entire year. We will see you on the other side. We hope everyone has a healthy, safe, happy New Year. Foreign. Welcome back to Divergent Conversations. As we get closer and closer to wrapping up this season on Burnout, we want to do an episode on Audi HD Burnout because it's something that's not talked about a lot but I know for a lot of us who do identify as Audi HD or autistic and adhd, it's a real experience. And I know for me I go through seems like a daily occurrence if not like constantly being in this space. So we wanted to just really start to introduce this conversation.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear. And outside of Audi HD, I also hear like more ADHDers talk about ADHD burnout. And we don't have, as far as I'm aware, we don't have the same kind of robust peer reviewed articles that have looked at ADHD burnout in the same way that we've been that folks have looked at autistic burnout. But it's one of those things we definitely hear from the community as a very real thing. Yeah, I kind of. Okay. I think it could be a helpful or interesting starting point. I'd be curious your thoughts. I have a few thoughts, but I'm always intrigued by this. How would you differentiate or would you between ADHD burnout and autistic burnout? And maybe that's hard when we're both.
- [03:45]
B
Right, I was going to say it's hard because we are both adhd and I think that makes it hard to differentiate between experience. Right. Like clearly neither of us have just the ADHD side of the experience or the autistic side of the experience. So it's really hard for me to say how can I differentiate? I think I see a lot of ADHDers who are obviously experiencing burnout, not just typical burnout, right? Like workplace burnout, stress, etc, because they're experiencing that as well as most of us are. But they are really struggling with their executive functioning. They're struggling with maintaining relationships. They're struggling with maybe their ability to have their attention focused somewhere. They're struggling with some of their own sensory stuff. And you do such a wonderful job of painting the picture of the overlap. And I think that when you're having all those experiences, it's got to be hard as hell to feel like how do I get out of this? Or how do I get back to baseline or homeostasis?
- [04:50]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The piece you said that I feel like is so core to ADHD burnout of what I hear. But also experience is like executive functioning is that just goes kind of out the window. So like forgetting more appointments than would be baseline. And that's such a hard one because that creates so much stress in our bodies because when our executive functioning struggles, then I know for me everything gets harder because I'm missing things and I've got shame about it. And so I've got hyper arousal in my body because I'm like, oh my gosh, I just, you know, forgot this thing. And so that becomes such a rugged beast is when the executive Functioning part is in burnout and I'm just forgetting things more.
- [05:37]
B
Yeah. And I think one thing to highlight, like you said, is the shame component and how, how intense that becomes because my, you know, I know for myself and for a lot of colleagues and friends of mine who are ADHDers, that fear of like dropping all the balls or plates that are spinning and how much energy goes into the executive functioning just to constantly feel like you're coming up short as is or like people telling you how you are. And I think once that starts to intensify, that's really, that's a hellacious place to be mentally because it's just constantly this feeling and thought of like I can't get anything right or nothing is like working out in this way.
- [06:22]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just had a curiosity, you know, depression is one of, if not the most common co occurring condition with adhd. And so, and I'm curious, you know, we talk, we've talked a lot about the autistic burnout to depression pathway, but I would suspect there's a really strong ADHD burnout to depression pathway of that sort of collapse that happens when executive functioning gets harder. And then the shame that you're describing like that just makes so much sense to me that that would then for a lot of us lead to the pathway of depression and that, that's also tricky because it's like what we need. This, this whole paradox we're in of often what we need to help support us getting out of burnout requires energy. So I'm thinking about, well, building in executive functioning accommodations. But that requires like structure and systems and then especially if the adhder isn't also autistic because sometimes I think for some of us who are the autism can kind of help out because we're systematizers, some of us, and so it can kind of help out the executive functioning a little bit.
- [07:36]
B
That's a great point. And I think that overcompensation that you just kind of mentioned where the autistic side, if you are a systemizer that can kind of come in and help out the ADHD's executive functioning struggles, there's almost this like if you're on a seesaw and then that autistic side comes over and is like, okay, I got you. Executive functioning, I'm going to like systemize and organize and we're going to figure out all of the ways to make sure these are not falling through the cracks. Takes an enormous amount of energy from the autistic side and that's where that like push, pull, it's feeling like that rocking motion, if you're watching me, is really what it feels like because it's like back and forth. Okay, I got you. Okay, I got you. Now we're both depleted or one of us is depleted and now here we are. But most importantly, what you were mentioning, like ADHD burnout leading to depression. Because for me what it would be like is the restlessness component, the lack of stimulation and excitement in my life and needing it, but not being able to access it and being in that space where exactly what you said, you know what you need, but it does not feel attainable.
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A
That, like that to me, that is why burnout often leads to depression. Like, and, and I, I mean I've talked in the recent weeks about how I'm in a more depressed state recently. And I was just having this conversation with my spouse last night about how what is so hard for me right now, work is. And this is why, like I have compassion for being a workaholic. Work and monotropic. Monotropic is the main way that I distract from my painful thoughts. And so especially if I'm in a depressed state, that becomes really important. And then when I cannot access work or when work becomes a source of stress, like right now, work just feels, I don't have a deep focus project that's feeling enjoyable. So work just feels stressful. It also feels really hard because I am more fatigued and so executive functioning, task initiation. And so I don't have work to escape to. And so then I'm stuck with these thoughts that are not the most pleasant thoughts. And so that is certainly part of the equation for me is when in burnout I don't have access to the things that I typically rely on to help escape some of the heaviness that I live with.
- [10:16]
B
Yeah, yeah, it's a really hard place to be. And what I hear you saying too, right, is you're still, you're still working, but the stuff you're working on feels not exciting, monotonous routine, like redundant. And it just doesn't give you the spark because we've talked about interest based nervous systems on here for ADHD years. And if the stuff we're working on, you know, is like some of the necessary evils of whatever, that's not exactly going to fulfill us. That's not going to create that enjoyment or that flow state even, or that hyperfocus that we seek in that ADHD side.
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A
Well, and that's the thing for me, I'll often Say, the first sign I'm in burnout is that I lose access to my curiosity.
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B
Yeah. And.
- [11:00]
A
And then once I've lost access to my curiosity, that's a very bad Megan Anna equation for my mental health.
- [11:06]
B
For sure. For sure. I know how you rely so heavily on your mind and your. Your thoughts and your curiosity to feel like this is where I feel best in a lot of ways. And. Yeah, it's so scary when we lose access to the things that we. We rely so heavily on to feel like we get through.
- [11:28]
A
Yeah. And I think the flip side for you, correct me if I'm wrong, would be, like, movement and activity. So things like soccer. So, like, when you lose access to that, which I would think in burnout, you'd lose more access to that, or with chronic pain, then that's your. Like, that's not a good equation for Patrick.
- [11:45]
B
No, no. Like, I don't. I've been talk. I've been joking about this, you know, the last couple episodes, because we were batch recording. So if you're, like, hearing us talk about the same stuff or experiences. I have been sick all week, so I don't do being a patient well. Like, you know, rationally. I know what I need. Tea, salt water, gargling, rest, recovery, stillness, laying down. All the things. My nervous system really doesn't do that well. So when I am struggling mentally or emotionally or I'm in burnout and I can't access movement or getting off of my couch or getting out of my bed, it's not a good place for me to be. I go to a really dark place in those moments.
- [12:37]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. I can imagine.
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B
One of. One of my friends and co workers is listening. She and I were talking about this today, and she's like, you sound like you are in a cry for help place. And I'm like, I'm not. I swear I'm not. But I know it sounds that way. Like darkness.
- [12:59]
A
Yeah, yeah. Which I think that's. And this is something that has shifted in our recording and maybe why. You know, a few episodes ago, I was like, why do people listen to us? I feel like we're being more open about the heaviness that we live with. And I do feel like.
- [13:20]
B
What am.
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A
I trying to say? Like, it's important to be able to kind of zoom up and talk about. I'm saying something that's really heavy and hard and I'm safe versus, like. Like, I love that your friend was able to ask. It kind of sounds like you're in a Cry for help and to do that check in of like, are you okay? Because it is really important to have people in our life that we can comfortably talk about how hard the things are that we live with. And it's also important that we be able to do those check ins of like, are you sharing this in a way that this is connecting and helpful? Or are you like, should we do a more explicit check in here? Like, are you okay?
- [14:08]
B
Yeah, yeah. I think that's unbelievably important and, and necessary. And I appreciate the person who did that. I was actually talking about my Ireland escape for writing and she was like, okay, I hear you saying that you want like dark, gloomy rain, misery, perhaps break it up and go to Spain or Greece in the middle of it and get some sunshine in your life. And I was like, I really want to embrace my inner Edgar Allan Poe slash Anthony Bourdain personality type. And she was like, again, are you okay? Yeah, I'm fine. I'm as fine as I can be.
- [14:50]
A
Because there is something about embracing the melancholy. Yeah. That can be, that can be aligned, that can be supportive. But it's also like in, in what ways are we embracing the melancholy? And.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And yeah, are. How are we doing that? Safely.
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B
Yeah. And you know, I think sometimes when we're in burnout, embracing the melancholy and.
- [15:13]
A
Embracing like embracing slow is what that would be.
- [15:17]
B
Yeah, yeah, it's. It's very helpful. Yeah, I think so often we want to like push through something or get through something or change our circumstance because it's uncomfortable. And a lot of times society says that's what we should be doing. But in reality, like sometimes we do have to embrace the slow and acknowledging that it is going to be a little bit of a bumpy ride for a little bit. But acknowledging also like zooming out. How often do we experience these lows and these periods and how often do we come out of them just to acknowledge that this is not forever, this is not permanent, this is not finite.
- [16:00]
A
I love that you said that because that's again, if depression's also in the mix, that's what depressed mind, that's one of the tricks it will play, is that this is what forever looks like. And so I think if we can contextualize the experience of my body is communicating to me that it's a season of slowdown.
- [16:15]
B
Yeah.
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A
And there will be different seasons, there will be other seasons, but in the season I'm slowing down and being able to remind ourselves that it's a season, I think becomes I know, I know for me that can be hard for me. But when I'm able to do it, it is so helpful because yeah, my catastrophic mind wants to be like, it's always going to be like this. It's always been like this. Which is, is just not true.
- [16:39]
B
Right. Yeah. And I think that's the one of the hardest parts of depression is the kind of the lies that our brain and our body communicates to our, to us. Like this is how life is all the time.
- [16:53]
A
Yeah. No, like, like, no, that's, that's. And that's where I do like, like kind of this, you know, act based therapies where we'll be like, well, okay, that's depressed mind talking. So doing some things that give it a little bit of distance. Yeah. And just naming like okay, I see, I see what you're up to and.
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B
Right.
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A
I understand why you are giving me these thoughts and feel this way. But also I know other things are true too.
- [17:21]
B
Yeah, I like that you mentioned that because I think distance and separation, acknowledging, like hey, this is here, but there's a reason that this is here too. I think burnout can also really be an indication and a. Not an acknowledge. Yeah. An acknowledgement of like I've pushed myself too far for whatever reason or I've, I've been impacted too greatly by something. This is a slowdown message. This is an indication. This is a, like a, an an alarm going off of saying like, okay, something's not working. Yeah. And yeah, sometimes that's helpful in a way to, to zoom out a bit. Get a bit more introspective when you can access it to say like okay, what is not working here and are there things that I can change or adapt or implement going forward even if it's like little things that I can do?
- [18:15]
A
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I've had kind of an awakening the last few. Awakening. That sounds so big. That's too big of a word. New insights have arrived to me in the last few months because I've been so. I've brought on a business partner, but it started with kind of who's from the more traditional business space and has helped me kind of zoom out with me and see what I've built over the years. And one of the insights that he's had is Megan Anna, you have so many executive functioning struggles that you are not accommodating. You just overwork. This is why you're working like 80, 90 hour work hours is your accommodation which is not an accommodation for your executive functioning struggles is Just overwork. And so I really. It's been interesting. I would have thought a lot of my burnout was autistic driven, but I'm realizing. I think a lot of the burnouts I've been experiencing are. A huge bit of it is the ADHD and the executive functioning and my. My struggles to, like, appropriately actually accommodate my executive functioning struggles.
- [19:29]
B
So I'm going to get metaphorical here so we can go back to our hellacious burnout city metaphor and what I imagine that to look like in burnout city hell is like a roof that is leaking, and you're constantly trying to patch it, but you're, like, patching it with the wrong material constantly. So you're just making more work for yourself and your time.
- [19:51]
A
I would totally do that, too. Whenever there's a problem, I just jump to, like, whatever's nearest me to try and solve it, and it's typically not the best solution. So I would literally be there just, like, putting up new patches, like, for hours, until someone would come up to me and be like, megan, Anna, do you know that, like, if you go down a level, there's actually a patch that'll work? And then you don't have to stand here for eight hours.
- [20:13]
B
Standing on this roof with, like, a bucket trying to catch the water as it's, like, coming in. But in reality, it's like, hey, maybe if we tried this thing.
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A
I feel like this is kind of an autistic ADHD thing where if I have a solution that works good enough, I just stick with it, even if it's not the most efficient one, and I'll get stuck in this, like. Like, this groove where it's like, but it works. And. And I also think it's. So I think it's partly autism, but I also think it's. I had so many experiences through my life of people being like, well, do it this way. But then I either couldn't understand what they were saying or I would try it that way, and it didn't work for me. So I also think I have the. I get an over. I get overly attached to things that kind of work because I don't trust if someone's like, we'll do it this way. I don't trust that I'll, a, understand or B, that it'll actually work for my brain.
- [21:08]
B
Yeah, I totally relate to that, actually. And I think there's that, like, some of that rigidity in the thinking, too, of like, well, this is good enough. And trying it differently is, like, a task or routine disruption. And this is too impactful. So I'm going to continue down this path. Although I know there's a solution that would probably be a little bit better or easier and really hard. I've even said it out loud to myself sometimes when something is not working and I'm, like, trying to get myself out of that mindset where I'm in either monotropic focus or I just cannot shake it. To be like, hey, shake yourself out of this. And it's really hard to do it is so hard.
- [21:50]
A
And partly because, again, it takes energy to zoom out and be like, are there other solutions? I'm not considering. This has been. So. Yeah, it was partly because of the stress of everything we went through with the website migration. This is where I decided to bring in a business partner, because I was. I was at a point of stress of, like, do I just shut this thing down? Like, I'm. This feels like such a massive thing to be holding on my own. And one of the things. Nick is his name, so I'll. One of the things he's also taught me is the power of, like, the pause. Because he. That was one of the first things he noticed. He's like, megan, you just jump to, like, the quickest solution, but it's often not the best. And I even do it with, like, finishing people's sentences. We'll just, like, jump to what I feel like should be the end of the sentence. Typically, I'm wrong. So he's been helping me to pause and to bring in my team. And he's like, you have a team of people who have good ideas. Cause I was just, like, jumping around doing it in my head. And so that's been so huge for me is to practice the pause and then to get other people's input into it and be like, oh, okay, yeah, that is way better than, like, this patch that I was putting on this leaky roof.
- [23:06]
B
So I think that's another good, like, metaphor for our city situation, where if you were in, like, monotropic manner or that. That more ideal city and scenario, you kind of have this team around you that you delegate to, and you ask for support and accommodation. And you guys. You have each other's backs in that way.
- [23:25]
A
Yeah. And you. And there's the practice of the pause. So it's like, okay, I know I'm doing some. I'm stuck in a rut. I'm gonna. Hands off. I'm gonna pause. And then. And ideally, I've. I've got people I can pause with. And if we Don't. I think we can still do a pause. Um, and I'm ha. I have my hands up. I'm thinking of Grey's Anatomy. Sometimes I do this in surgery when it's like, something's not working. They'll be like. They'll, like, put their. They'll be like, everyone, pause. Hands off. Like, if. If it's, like, a surgical crisis, I don't know how accurate this is for medical stuff. And then it's like, they're just pausing to see what the body's actually doing before they decide what's next. So the metaphorical pause, whether it's alone or with people, I know that's hard for my ADHD brain to do. And so it's been helpful to actually have it as a ritual of, like, okay, I need to do a pause right now. I need to not just react or just stay in whatever I'm doing.
- [24:21]
B
I noticed that the closer I get into these burnout spaces, the more I want to react immediately, like you're saying. And that could be over communication or jumping into my team's. Whatever they're dealing with and fixing it, because I see the solution, and they do not appreciate that. They're like, I have a job to do. Right. Like, you hired me to do this thing, so schedule sending and, like, typing something out, getting it out of my head, putting it out there, scheduling. It allows me to step back and be like, do I need to delete this? Like, do I need to send this? Are they taking care of it already? And like you said, practicing the pause. Because it's so easy, because I'm more irritated in this state, more frustrated. My distress tolerance is down. I'm like, no, they're not doing it right. See, they're. And then in reality. Yeah, we were handling this behind the scenes. Like, we are doing it the way we need to do it. Okay. I need to step away.
- [25:25]
A
Yeah. I really can see as we're talking about this, how ADHD burnout drives more ADHD burnout. Because, yeah, our, like, emotional fuse is less. Our ability to pause is less.
- [25:34]
B
Yeah.
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A
Our executive functioning is struggling more. So it'd be really easy to, like, do things like that where we're reactively responding, and then we're creating situations that create more stress, more work. Yeah. Yeah. Which goes back to what we were saying about Maybe there's something about honoring the slow and, like, aligning with. Okay, this is the energy my body's in, for sure.
- [25:59]
B
And it's. It's so hard, though. Like, I can say that out loud. And I'm really trying to do it. Like, I have. I know some of you listening might think otherwise based on some of our conversations, but I am trying so hard to, like, step away from things and like, allow myself to just exist and to just be in these moments in this season of my life. It's really freaking hard. But I am doing it. And I have to give myself credit and like, exhibit a word that I hate, self compassion. Because, like, when I noticed, like, okay, you are handing things off, you are saying no to these things. You are like, creating more distance in life and separation in, in your next thing. I think that's important for me, at least personally to acknowledge for myself because it's so hard sometimes to like, feel like I am trying to dig myself out from this, like, massive crater, like burnout hole that I have created over the last few years.
- [27:03]
A
Yeah.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Well, and if it is. And this is, again, this is. I feel like ADHD is great at building craters for burnout.
- [27:11]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [27:11]
A
Like, that's the same thing. And it's why I, again, it's why I'm starting to feel relief from bringing in a partner, is I built a Frankenstein business from my ADHD of like, well, this got boring. So I'm going to now add this wing to neurodivergent Insights.
- [27:26]
B
Right.
- [27:26]
A
And I've, Yeah, for years I've been calling it my Frankenstein business. And a Frankenstein business is a great crater to crawl in for ADHD burnout. And you've done something similar of like, you're like, well, I'm bored now, so I'll start another podcast or I'll do this or I'll do that. So also, like, coming to a sort of reckoning of that. Okay. This is the ADHD tendency to get bored and to go start something new and exciting.
- [27:52]
B
Yep. Yeah. And I think when we have these Frankenstein businesses, which we could also incorporate into our burnout, Hell City is like these Frankenstein creations, so to speak, whether it be your business, whether it be relationships, whether it be, you know, just systems that don't work for you, it's almost like, how do we take this beautiful monster creation and turn it into something that feels more effective and more supportive of what we need? And I think that is, that's the, like, when you step across that bridge that we were talking about, that's like a lot. It takes a lot of self work and insight and deconstruction too. Because what I think for me is ever since I created my business back in 2020, I have created this four and a half, five year journey into this hellacious, like, crater, like experience.
- [28:46]
A
Yeah. Yeah. The folks who I see like doing the best or finding sustainable ways, especially the ADI HD folks, are people who have found a way to let the autism lead in building some kind of structure or frame and then letting the ADHD play within it. So where there's a structure that doesn't change, but there's novelty within it.
- [29:11]
B
Yep.
- [29:12]
A
And folks who can figure out how to do that and build that in their lives, I have found it feels like they've got a bit of sustainability to work with.
- [29:22]
B
So now the million dollar question, how do we do that?
- [29:26]
A
I mean, that's where, like, I think the zooming out helps. I think when, if the person does have access to systematizing thinking, like, that's where that can be really helpful of, okay, what's going to be the structure or the ritual that creates the sameness? The container. And then so I think it's. I think it starts by building the container and making a really sturdy container from which new, exciting, playful things get to exist.
- [30:00]
B
Yeah, I agree 100%. And I think that if you're in that, if you're already, if you're, if you're moving towards this burnout that we've been talking about, that's. Now's the time, like everything you can do to create that container and to protect yourself, acknowledging that, like, you are getting closer and closer to that, that crevasse almost. And if you're in it, that's a little trickier. But I think it's about trying to, again, zoom out and really think about, okay, here I am in this burnout space going forward, how can I create this container to kind of step into and to kind of create now with the things that I know that I'm going to need in order to protect myself from another cyclical experience like this.
- [30:51]
A
Yeah, yeah. So this is a little bit of a pivot, but I mean, I think it's. We've explored some of the ways that autism and ADHD could exasperate burnout, which, from like sensory stuff to executive functioning stuff to the internal tensions you named of. All right, I want to socialize, but then that drains me.
- [31:13]
B
Yeah.
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A
Are there ways where you see being autistic and ADHD helping you, like, helping you build a life that's a little bit more resilient to burnout? Like the fact that you are both.
- [31:31]
B
Yeah. Right. I hope. Yeah. I think that the more, the more I've zoomed out, the more I've just, the more I've understood, stood both neurotypes and both experiences have allowed for me to start to co create like that container in that world. Because now I acknowledge ADHD wants the novelty, the playfulness. Let's give it space, but let's put, let's try to build in accountability measures, let's try to build in structure, let's try to build in boundaries, let's try to communicate with people who I'm close with about how to do check ins, how to kind of support when things are happening. So for me, I do think I've like future planned in a way that feels more harmonious opposed to ADHD steering the ship directly into the iceberg and the Titanic.
- [32:30]
A
So the autism helps the adhd? Are there ways the ADHD helps the autism?
- [32:35]
B
Yeah, I think that playfulness piece, you know, like allowing me be a little bit more playful, to get a little more excited about certain things in my life, to become more childlike and certain ways with ways that I always used to have such a firm grasp on of like no, this is too silly. No, this is too like I didn't know I was going to enjoy rolling around with giant rat rodent things a couple days ago with my friends and you know, that capybara experience that, you know, acknowledging that the playfulness is so important for me and trying to figure out ways that I do enjoy being playful and excited and allowing myself to embrace that more and more has been really, really, really helpful for me.
- [33:23]
A
So the ADHD kind of helps you find the life sparks.
- [33:27]
B
Yeah.
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A
Or the energy sparks and the life sparks. Yeah. And the autism helps create some like containment. Yeah, that makes sense. I feel like I resonate with that.
- [33:37]
B
I think I also have to have acceptance that the autism side needs like 70 to 80% of, of the container, which the AD HD side doesn't appreciate.
- [33:52]
A
It was, I was just thinking that. Yeah.
- [33:54]
B
But I think that is my reality of like I really need to have control over that environment 80% of the time.
- [34:02]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I can see how the ADHD.
- [34:05]
B
Would be like, nah, yeah, I'm busting out of this thing.
- [34:09]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's part of Burnout City is like in Burnout City they're just like locked in an arm wrestling match constantly.
- [34:20]
B
Yeah.
- [34:20]
A
But in, in the monotropic Manor City they have created this really harmonious structure where they're both content and happy. ADHD feels safe because it ha. Like ADHD feels safe because it actually has a container that feels sturdy and autism Feels, like, appreciative of the life the ADHD contributes to the container. Yeah.
- [34:47]
B
I think in, like, monotropic manner. I've. I vision, like, I have a vision of them, like, skipping, holding hands.
- [34:56]
A
I feel like the autistic part would be, like, no burnout. I am not skipping, holding hands.
- [35:01]
B
Constant arm wrestling. And ADHD's muscles are so much bigger. And just, like, it's one of those situations where it's like, yeah, let's arm wrestle as a joke, and then just, like, immediately slams the arm down.
- [35:15]
A
Yeah, ADHD is definitely winning that arm wrestle.
- [35:17]
B
Yeah.
- [35:18]
A
Okay, so how can we come up with a skipping metaphor that doesn't feel so atrocious to the autistic part?
- [35:24]
B
Yeah, it is atrocious. When I actually say it out loud. I think that maybe a monotropic manner, the autism side is like, oh, I get to, like, curl up and read this book or do this work, and I don't have to worry about the sensory stuff. And the ADHD side is, like, outside playing. And it's okay that they have a.
- [35:45]
A
Little space, like, healthy differentiation. They're not enmeshed. Yeah. And then they can. When they want to connect, they can parallel play or parallel bodywork.
- [35:57]
B
Yeah. They can body double if they want. Like, and I think it's about the ADHD side knowing and acknowledging I do have the freedom to do. To do things, and the autism side knowing and acknowledging, and they're not going to push it too far. And I think that's, like, the harmonious balance, in a way.
- [36:20]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I like that. I like that.
- [36:26]
B
Look at us being positive. Like, this is why people come and listen for the positivity.
- [36:34]
A
If you want to feel all of the positive vibes, go listen to Divergent.
- [36:39]
B
Conversations on Fridays and some days when we take breaks and on all the platforms. Yeah. No, in all seriousness, I actually am glad we did this episode. Like, kind of makes me feel a little more at peace. And also, there's, like, these aha moments or epiphany moments for me where I'm like, yeah, I think there can be some, like, symbiosis here.
- [37:05]
A
Yeah, for sure. Ooh. I just thought of a framework. So this came up in the Gifted series we did, but this framework is not at all. So the idea of overexcitabilities comes from. It's very much connected to the Gifted idea. But really, the idea of overexcitabilities, if you look at it, it's very neurodivergent. And so Kaylin, who works at Neurodivergent insights. She and I did a workbook last year that I actually love and I feel I've not done a good job explaining this self care model, but this, and this was something that she was already doing. It's this idea of we've got these five overexcitabilities. So there's like sensory, there's physical or motor, there's intellectual, there's emotional, there's one more that I'm forgetting. But it's this idea and the way I see them in my mind is like they're these little crazy critters and you need to feed them. And if, if they're off balance, that's kind of when we're in trouble. And so I think especially when we're Audi, Audi hd. Still struggling to say that, like thinking through, okay, which of my overexcitability little critters, like, could use some nourishment today and which ones are maybe like over, like maybe overbearing or they're. I'm in a like strained relationship to them. But there's something about seeing them as these like cute little critters that I feed that I love as like a self care framework of like, okay. And it's so like this. The physical or the motor? It's like, okay, I need to feed that one because that's where it's lacking. And it's been like when you're sick, it's like your little physical motor critter is not very happy and so it needs the nourishment when you get, get better.
- [38:59]
B
I like that. Yeah, I can get behind that for sure. I think that's a cool framework and I have so many fascinating special interests around animals now. And I could put one of my five favorite animals in each one of those so it works really well.
- [39:16]
A
Oh my gosh. Well, I'll send it to you just so you can see the visuals. And then you. I would actually be curious what animals you made for each of your over oes, your overexcite abilities. And then you could start talking about like feeding the different animals.
- [39:30]
B
See, I like this because then I can have that association.
- [39:33]
A
Yeah.
- [39:34]
B
Yeah. Okay. Cool, cool, cool, cool.
- [39:37]
A
I'll send it to you. Yeah, and then we'll like, we're just building so many metaphors. I feel like in two episodes from now we're going to be like, and then I fed my hedgehog and then I went to Manotra. I was sitting in a manotran the other day feeding my hedgehog.
- [39:53]
B
People are listening and they're like, what the fuck? Thank you for making it all the way through. If you're still with us, I think creating this framework is really useful, especially if you are more visual, which I am typically not. But having like five little animal critters that I can kind of have this association with these overexcitabilities. It's all going to make sense. We're going to link this stuff and then it will make sense. For those of you who are sitting there like, why am I listening to this still? But if you are, thank you for doing so and listening through this entire series of Autistic Burnout and now Audi HD burnout. We still have one more episode to go on all platforms and YouTube on Fridays. Thanks for listening. Goodbye. Foreign.
- [40:51]
A
Hey, it's Dr. Neff here. This season we are clearly talking about autistic burnout, a topic that neurodivergent Insights has covered extensively. So if you would like more resources to supplement your learning, we've put together a page where we've curated all of our autistic burnout resources Freed and paid resources. We have lots of articles on autistic burnout. We have a upcoming free email course. It's going to be released soon. We have workbooks on autistic burnout. So if you'd like to check out our resources again, both free and paid, you can go to neurodivergentinsights.com burnout resources. It's linked below and in the show notes. I hope you don't need these resources, but if you do, they are there for you.