Divergent Conversations – Episode 80: Giftedness (Part 1): Defining Giftedness: Beyond High IQs

Release Date: November 15, 2024
Hosts: Dr. Megan Anna Neff & Patrick Casale
Guest: Emily Kircher-Morris, LPC
Episode Theme: Laying the Groundwork on Giftedness – Definitions, Intersection with Neurodivergence, and Lived Experience

Episode Overview

In the first installment of a new series on "Giftedness," Megan Anna Neff and Patrick Casale are joined by Emily Kircher-Morris—host of the Neurodiversity Podcast, author, former educator, and therapist specializing in gifted, twice-exceptional (2e), and neurodivergent individuals. The episode explores the complexities of what "giftedness" means, moving beyond traditional IQ-score definitions and delving into its intersections with neurodivergence, social challenges, and lived experiences in school and society.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Giftedness and Its Place in Neurodiversity

[02:00–06:52]

• Emily Kircher-Morris: Giftedness is commonly understood as high cognitive ability, typically measured by IQ tests, but it’s not a clinical label—it's an educational one.
• Notable Quote:

  “If we think about the bell curve and then if you're diverging from normative in a significant way, then yes, absolutely...I would argue that cognitive giftedness is also a type of neurodivergence. It's just on the other end of that bell curve.”
  — Emily (02:23)

• No universally agreed cutoff for "gifted"—criteria can range from top 10% to top 2% of cognitive ability.
• Giftedness is tied to problem-solving, abstract reasoning, language skills, and brain differences (such as increased brain volume).
• IQ is not the sole indicator, nor does academic success always correlate with giftedness.

2. Influences on Cognitive Ability

[06:09–06:52]

• Brain development and IQ can be influenced by environmental factors, including trauma.
• Trauma increases theta brain waves, potentially reducing cognitive scores, blurring the line between “innate” giftedness and life experience.

3. IQ Testing: Limits, Bias, and Identification

[06:52–12:55]

• IQ testing is rare in a person's life and results are subject to variance ("regression toward the mean").
• School identification of giftedness has historically excluded marginalized groups.
• Universal screening (testing all students, not just teacher-nominated ones) increased both marginalized and 2e (twice-exceptional) identifications.

4. The Expansion & Controversy of the Term ‘Gifted’

[14:03–19:04]

• On social media, "gifted" now sometimes refers to personality traits like existential curiosity or intensity—sometimes divorced from cognitive metrics.
• Overexcitabilities Theory: Five intensified traits (intellectual, emotional, imaginational, psychomotor, sensory) were popularized to describe qualitative differences among gifted individuals.
• However, many of these traits overlap with neurodivergent profiles (autism, ADHD), and research is mixed on their uniqueness to giftedness.
• Gifted education, historically, has been ableist—explaining away behaviors as “quirkiness” rather than considering 2e identities.

5. Overlap with Autism & Twice-Exceptionality

[19:26–22:06]

• Statistically significant overlap exists: Autistic individuals are 1.5 times more likely to be in the superior intelligence range.
• The further one is from the cognitive mean, the more likely neurodivergent traits surface, suggesting deep neurobiological links.
• Notable Quote:

  "Of individuals who are identified as autistic, they're one and a half times more likely than the general population also to have intelligence in the superior range."
  — Emily (21:00)

6. Social Experiences and Struggles

[22:40–28:22]

• Gifted and gifted/2e individuals often face social disconnect, misunderstanding, and the need to "language down" to connect with peers.
• Social skills may lag behind advanced verbal or intellectual abilities, leading to isolation or masking.
• Patrick: Shares his experience of academic ease masking underlying struggles.

  "I could get straight A's on everything I've ever done without much effort...you really miss the behind the scenes struggles..." (24:13)

7. The Social Model of Disability and Contextual Struggles

[25:18–30:02]

• Many difficulties attributed to giftedness are contextual—not inherent—manifesting when environments don’t meet unique needs.
• High intelligence generally correlates with positive life outcomes but can cause perfectionism, social issues, and emotional struggles when paired with poor support or fit.
• Notable Quote:

  "It's so hard to be gifted if you don't have some supports. And it's kind of the reverse. It's not like there's something inherent about being gifted that makes things harder..."
  — Emily (27:01)

8. Learning to Learn: The “Curse” of Gifted Ease

[28:22–31:54]

• Lack of academic challenge may prevent development of perseverance, healthy failure, and coping skills—creating transition difficulties in adulthood.
• Megan discusses the difference between her experience as a "hard worker" and those who succeed with ease in school and then struggle with real-world setbacks.

9. Educational Trauma & Adulthood

[33:48–38:49]

• Many “gifted kid burnout” memes reflect the unrecognized trauma of twice-exceptional but undiagnosed youth.
• Long-term effects: internalized pressure, overachievement, avoidance, burnout, and difficulties seeking help.
• Emily’s personal share:

  "I'm also very independent, which again can be a trauma response where it's like I am not going to ask people for help because when I was growing up and I asked for help, I was told that I should be able to do these things and if I wasn't doing them, I was lazy." (37:22)

10. Burnout, Productivity, and Capitalism

[38:54–41:37]

• Societal (especially U.S.) pressure toward productivity and achievement exacerbates burnout, especially for high-achieving or “gifted” individuals.
• Burnout can be masked by overfunctioning and is not always obvious shutdown.
• Discussion includes identity’s link to productivity and self-worth (“You’re more than your productivity”).

11. Language, Identity, and Stigma

[44:09–45:51]

• The use of identity-first language (“gifted kid”) versus person-first (“student with autism”) reflects what society values and normalizes.
• Notable Quote:

  “There's a group of students who we always use identity first language...It’s when we're talking about gifted kids. Why is that? It's because language conveys our values.”
  — Emily (44:09)

• Advocates more consistency and recognition of identity-affirming language for all neurodivergent labels.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the nature of gifted identification:
  “There's not really an agreed upon cutoff score, if that's the only criteria we're looking at.” — Emily (03:57)

• On overexcitabilities and ableism:
  “The gifted ed world has a history of being pretty ableist...a lot of those traits...sound like ADHD or autistic traits.” — Emily (18:06)

• On the impact of educational environment:
  “Viewing the difficulties that sometimes gifted individuals face through the lens of the social model of disability makes more sense.” — Emily (25:50)

• On self-worth and productivity:
  “I have a sticker on my laptop that says something like, you're more than your productivity. Right. But it's so hard to remember that.” — Emily (41:13)

• On language and value:
  “Language conveys our values. It tells you what we approve of and what is okay and what is not.” — Emily (44:13)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Defining giftedness & neurodivergence: 02:00–06:52
• IQ, brain differences, trauma: 06:09–06:52
• Problems with testing & identification: 06:52–12:55
• Expansion of 'gifted' terminology: 14:03–19:04
• Twice exceptionality & overlap with autism: 19:26–22:06
• Social/academic experience & masking: 22:40–28:22
• Social model of disability, privilege, and challenge: 25:18–30:02
• Adulthood, skill deficits, trauma: 33:48–38:49
• Productivity & burnout in capitalism: 38:54–41:37
• Language as value statement: 44:09–45:51

Tone & Style

The conversation is warm, humor-laced, reflective, and gently challenging—encouraging ongoing evolution and self-examination, as summed up by Megan:

"So much is evolving in our world right now...we are evolving. The language we use is evolving."

Emily shares both professional expertise and personal vulnerability, while Patrick and Megan contribute their own lived experiences and thoughtful questions.

Further Resources & Where to Find Emily

• Podcast: The Neurodiversity Podcast
• Upcoming Book (Jan 2025): “Neurodiversity Affirming Schools” (co-author Amanda Morin)
• Contact: Search “Emily Kircher-Morris” on most social platforms

Closing Reflection

This episode thoughtfully deconstructs the traditional notion of “giftedness,” emphasizing its complexity, contextual challenges, intersections with other neurotypes, and the importance of supportive environments and affirming language. It sets up future conversations (and guests) to further unpack the lived experience of gifted and twice-exceptional individuals.