← DNA: ID
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Doe ID: 'Dumpster Jane Doe' Laurie Potter
00:57:19
Episode 147 Doe ID: 'Dumpster Jane Doe' Laurie Potter On October 5th, 2003, a maintenance worker at at the Country Hills Apartment complex in Rancho San Diego, made a horrific discovery in a dumpster when he found a set of severed legs. It was...
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Does treatment for opioid addiction leave a bad taste? Visit rethinkyourrecovery.com to learn more and find a doctor. You're listening to dnaid brought to you by abjack Entertainment. Be sure to check out some of the other great true crime podcasts from this network, including the Murder in My Family, Missing Persons, Scene of the Crime, Zodiac Speaking Beyond Bizarre True Crime, Citizen Detective and Campus Killings. All of these podcasts are available for you to binge on right now. Wherever you listen to podcasts, subscribe where you're listening to this podcast so you don't miss an episode. Just after Lunchtime on Sunday, October 5, 2003, Fernando Padilla, a maintenance worker at the Country Hills apartment complex in the east county neighborhood of Rancho San Diego, California, was cleaning up after doing renovation work on a vacant apartment. Fernando brought a bag of trash down to the dumpster behind the building the renovated apartment was in. The large blue metal bin was tucked into a small white stucco walled area with a brown wood door designed to improve the aesthetics of the garbage area of the complex. Country Hills was a cluster of two story condo style buildings. The complex was not what you're thinking. This was not the projects or a dreary high rise. The upscale 675 unit complex made for a very nice neighborhood with BMWs parked on the street, several pools, tennis courts, manicured grass, common areas and pruned bushes. When Fernando opened the top of the bin to deposit the trash, he noted a new looking army green canvas duffel bag in the dumpster with something bulky zipped inside. The bag did not look like it belonged in the trash. Fernando couldn't help himself. He looked. In the bag were two nude Severed human legs. Fernando hustled to the apartment management office where two female managers looked at him askance when he came in, asking them to come look. This could be a Halloween prop, he said. After all, it was October. But he didn't think so. The women followed Fernando and then called the police. At 1:25pm the San Diego County Sheriff's Office sent some deputies over to check out the report of finding severed human limbs. The address given to the first responders was 2450 Hilton Head Place in the 1600 block of Hilton Head Court near Jamancha Road in Rancho San Diego. Fire department personnel were dispatched as well. When they all saw what Fernando had seen, they shut down the area. Crime scene tape went up around the dumpster enclosure and surrounding areas. Deputies, CSIS and homicide investigators swarmed the complex. When all was said and done, the legs were the only body parts located. San Diego County Sheriff's Office field evidence technician John Farrell arrived and was briefed by a deputy Shimmin. He then photographed the crime scene and the contents of the dumpster, aside from the legs, was searched and inventoried. So were the contents of every trash receptacle at the complex and surrounding areas. CSI Farrell also dusted the dumpster looking for latent prints, but found none. Video footage from 2003 shows quiet, worried residents of the complex standing back from the crime scene tape, trying to learn whether there was a threat to the public. Children were kept inside. As one neighbor told NBC San Diego, this is a nice neighborhood, but I guess crime happens everywhere. Although they were by far the most impactful evidence, the severed legs were not the only pieces of evidence collected at the crime scene. CSI Farrell also collected swabs of suspected blood. The green duffel bag, three empty black plastic trash bags that were near the legs in the dumpster, a swab of a red stain on a white trash bag under the legs, a clump of hair on the north side of the dumpster area wall near the door hinge, and latent prints recovered from the hood of a Chevy Suburban parked next to the dumpster. None of these pieces of evidence ended up leading anywhere, although the empty black trash bags would come to detectives minds years later. A splotch of blood on the sidewalk elsewhere in the complex stirred up interest, which was quashed when the blood turned out to have come from an animal. Residents of the complex, completely unused to such violence and gore, were horrified and spooked. Canvases of the residents failed to turn up anyone who noted anything suspicious at all. It seemed likely that the killer was a Non resident who had pulled up outside the dumpster in a vehicle, checked to make sure no one was around, popped out and deposited the bag and driven off. The whole thing would take less than 10 seconds and if done under cover of night, just hours before the legs were found, would easily have been done undetected. At the medical Examiner's office, CSI Farrell observed the pathologist's examination of the legs and illuminated the legs with alternative light sources, searching for any biological evidence, such as bodily fluids or tissues belonging to someone else. But nothing was found. Paper lifts from the legs, designed to recover latent prints on skin, were used, but no prints were found either. This was because, very intriguingly, the legs had been cleaned, most likely with isopropyl alcohol. They were pristine except for the bottoms of the feet, which did have blood on them. This was not believed to have been from the feet standing in blood as much as just collateral blood from the whole messy dismemberment. Farrell also collected into evidence the body sheet that the legs were wrapped in. Two femur bone samples to preserve the tool marks, another femur bone sample for DNA collection, photos of both legs, and a film strip documenting the tool marks on the leg bone. Speaking of the toolmarks, sorry to get a little graphic here, but details matter. From a distance, the legs appeared to have been completely cleanly cut from the body. The wounds were uniform and smooth, as if severed in one fell swoop by something like a machete. But closer inspection revealed that the skin was ragged. It had been cut with a toothed blade. San Diego County Cold Case Detective Troy Dugall, who solved this case, told me he suspects the dismemberment was done by a portable Sawzall blade. I didn't know what that was, since, despite what you may think, I don't hang out at Home Depot, but a quick Google search showed me a small electric saw. This was considered a likely tool since the legs had almost certainly been removed by an electric power blade that moved easily and cleanly the flesh and bone. Rather than being sawed clumsily with a serrated blade like a hacksaw, each leg was whole and nearly complete, meaning that the dismemberment had occurred at the top of the upper thigh. At the groin. They were determined to belong to a white female who had very recently been alive and who wore chipped pink toenail polish. Her time of death was estimated at October 4th or 5th, possibly the very same day on which her still wet legs were found. Unfortunately, an age estimate couldn't really be made based on the legs Alone, the medical examiner settled on a wide range of 15 to 30 years. The woman who had previously been attached to the legs was between 5 foot and 5 foot 3 inches tall, and her death was declared a homicide. Cause of death, of course, could not be determined from the legs alone, but seasoned San Diego county medical examiner Glenn Wagner felt that the totality of the circumstances called for a ruling of homicide. After all, the freshly severed body parts were hidden in a dumpster. A tox screen showed that the leg owner had not died of a drug overdose, and the legs had been carefully cleaned with alcohol, presumably to erase evidence. An STR DNA sample from the legs, which confirmed that the owner was a woman, was entered into both the state and federal unidentified human remains databases. But no one was looking for this woman, so her DNA profile sat in the database for years with no head hits. Investigators did all the typical things that they could do to try to identify the unidentified legs. They checked missing persons bulletins from surrounding agencies. They interviewed residents of the complex, checked to see who had recently moved out, and verified that all residents were accounted for. They worked to determine whether the case was linked to a series of sex worker dismemberments that had been plaguing San Diego for a decade. They checked whether the legs could have belonged to a victim of a serial killer, and so on. The leg finder, Fernando Padilla, was interviewed extensively, although it was pretty apparent that if he had been the one to kill the woman in the dumpster, he would have been unlikely to sound the alarm about finding her legs. A voluntary DNA sample was collected from Fernando in the event they needed it to compare to any DNA that might be located and foreign DNA was found. In 2003, DNA testing was conducted on some of the other evidence collected. A DNA sample that did not match the legs was located on the strap of the green military duffel bag the legs were contained in. Then, in 2006, Connie Milton, a criminalist for the San Diego County Sheriff's Department Regional Crime Lab, swabbed the metal loop and clip and strap of the green military bag. This yielded two separate samples, 301A and 301B. Again, she obtained DNA from these samples. All three consistent samples from the bag, the 2003 sample, and the two 2006 samples were compared to Fernando Padilla's DNA, and he was excluded as the contributor. Meanwhile, after the pathologist had examined the legs and done tox screens and collected blood and tissue samples, the legs were buried in a county cemetery in unceremonious fashion. Over the next few years, A cold case investigator named Pat Gardner, who went on to become a captain at the San Diego County Sheriff's Office, invested hours in the case when a tip came in from a prisoner about a woman who had been killed and dismembered and discarded in various locations around town. A lot of investigative work was done, but nothing came of this. The cases were unrelated.
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Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory services by Public Advisors, llc, SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures volatility is hitting retirement accounts and savings across the country. More Americans are exploring physical gold and silver for added diversification during unpredictable economic periods. Preserve Gold offers straightforward education on how precious metals can be included in an IRA. Text IHEART to 50505 for your free wealth protection Guide and with a qualified purchase, you could receive up to $15,000 in free gold or silver. I am from the future and all of this goes horribly wrong. Critics are calling good luck, have fun, don't die. Absolutely. Absolute chaotic perfection.
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In 2018, seasoned San Diego County Sheriff's Office homicide detective Troy Dugall moved over to the Cold case unit and was charged by his captain, Pat Gardner, with making a dent in the 400 unsolved cold cases the agency had on its books. Dugal was well aware of the new IgG technique that had been pioneered by another jurisdiction in the Golden State to catch the eponymous killer in April of that year. So Dugall called up the FBI agents who had been on the GSK task force, the Steves, the Bush and Kramer, and they introduced him to Barbara Ray Venter. She taught the four San Diego County Sheriff's office cold case detectives and senior crime analyst Jeff Vandersip the basics of an IGG investigation. After that, the new in house IGG unit prioritized cases that had DNA to work with that might be conducive to an IGG inquiry. There were about 18 of those. The first case they addressed and solved was was Teresa Solecki, which I covered in season two. They also solved the Michelle Wyatt homicide, which I also covered, and several others. The unit also took on unidentified human remains homicide cases. And at the forefront of their minds was the Dumpster Doe case. Her case was reopened in May of 2020 with hopes that they could now harness the powers of IGD to identify the owner of the legs. The San Diego Sheriff's crime lab sent a physical sample from the legs. I'm not sure whether it was blood tissue or the femur segment out gene by gene for preparation of a SNP profile. Once the SNP profile was obtained, which took only three weeks, analyst Vandersip uploaded it to GEDmatch and Family Tree DNA. The results were underwhelming. The top match was a living male DNA relative who shared just 88 centimorgans of DNA with the Jane Doe. There were additional matches, but they were even less significant. So they started building the tree of the top match, who was a registered sex offender in Wisconsin named David. Because the shared DNA pointed to a relationship along the lines of third or fourth cousins, the investigators had to build the tree out to several generations. And they quickly got stuck. The investigators were unable to figure out who David's biological grandparents were. The ones on paper did not mesh with what the investigators were seeing with genetic relationships in the databases. They decided to contact this top match, David, and ask him some pointed questions about his pedigree. They were upfront with him. They called him up and identified themselves and said, you are related to an unidentified homicide victim in San Diego. Would you help us? I was surprised that David, a registered sex offender, agreed, but he did. David knew who his father was, a man named Charles H. Charles was incarcerated in the California State Prison at Oshkosh for child sex Abuse. An uncle of David's also did 25 years in prison for a similar crime. Charles's mother, David's grandmother, when her identity was finally learned, had been raped by her own father and bore a child out of this rape. This family was a mess. But all signs were pointing to David's father's line being the correct one. The investigators needed to focus on his mother's and maternal grandmother's line did not contain any genetic connections that were helpful. So they needed to identify Charles father. But the investigators were unable to figure out who this incarcerated man's dad was. His heritage appeared shrouded. Eventually they thought, what do we have to lose? And reached out through the warden to this prisoner and asked him to speak with them. He agreed, but told them he didn't know who his father was. He believed his name was Ted H. Same last name as Charles, who had been born in 1928 and died in 2004. So he too took a DNA test and the investigators uploaded the results. Ted H. Had died as a man named John Ainsworth after legally changing his name in Wisconsin. This Ted John guy was indeed Charles's father, but he had been adopted and raised in Wisconsin by a family with the same H last name that Charles had. But that name was not Ted's birth name and no one knew what it was because the adoption records were sealed. It appeared his biological mother might have been a Viola Ainsworth because the investigators did see some DNA matches that meshed with that family. Viola had several marriages, including to a Julius Zalandec. And just like every genealogist does in similar circumstances, Dugal and Vandersip did a little happy dance that they had a unique, easy to research last name. And sure enough, analyst Vandersip found an article from the January 30, 1930 Milwaukee Journal with this headline, Seeks $15,000 gets $650 in love theft. The article stated 39 year old Julia Zalandec sued Johann Hubert, age 62, of 2304 Juno Avenue for $15,000 for alleged alienation of Mrs. Viola Zalandak's affections. A Circuit Court jury awarded Mr. Zalandek $650. Mr. Zalandek got a divorce in 1927, charging that Viola had deserted him. Okay, so Viola Zalandek had left her husband for Johann Hubert, who lived nearby. The investigator's theory was that a baby came out of that relationship and that baby was Ted H. Who had been adopted out. His birth name in that case would have been Hubert. He was adopted by the family whose last name which starts with H he initially took. Later he legally changed his name to his mother Viola's maiden name, Ainsworth. It all fit. And there were some DNA matches in the databases who were connected to Huberts in Wisconsin. There was only one way to find out if they were on the right track. Detective Dugal set out to pierce the adoption records in Wisconsin. He filed for a search warrant to open the adoption record pertaining to Ted H. Because he was dead and because Dugal argued he needed the information to identify a homicide victim. He got permission of the adoption agency and a Wisconsin Supreme Court judge and accessed the birth records. But the birth record did not reflect the name Hubert but Zalandec. But it confirmed the date of birth, the mother's name Viola Ainsworth Zalandec, and the location. All of which was consistent with the investigators theories about Ted H's origin story. The investigators believed that Ted H's father was Johann Hubert. So it was time to start looking into the Huberts. The Huberts were Russian immigrants who came to the US in the 1800s. And it was a very large family. So the investigators patiently built out the tree and they saw that Johann had a brother named John Peter Hubert who died in 1941. And he stood out because he was the only Hubert family member who had settled in Fresno, California. They were finally in the right geographic ballpark. John Peter Hubert and his wife Sophie had nine children. Of course, building out each of their trees focused the investigators on one of the sons, Henry Hubert. Henry and his wife Sophia Gerber had three sons, all of whom grew up in Fresno County. Using DNA Painter, a DNA relationship prediction tool, analyst Vanderseff found a living person who was at about the same position in this branch of the Hubert family tree as DNA Painter suggested the Jane Doe might be. So they called him up. His name was John Carlson. He confirmed the family relationships. His grandfather Lawrence Hubert was Henry and Sophia Hubert's son and John's mother's father. And speaking of his mother, John said she lived in San Diego and he had not heard from her in years. Her name was Laurie Diane Hubert Potter. So after just seven months of IGG analysis, in December 2020, the investigators had the name of a possible candidate to the Jane Doe found in the dumpster. Needless to say, John Carlson willingly gave DNA to see if he could make an identification. When the test results came in, they showed that the DNA of John Carlson was consistent with a parent child relationship. With the legs, it all fit perfectly. John Hubert was Laurie Hubert's great grandfather and his brother Johan was topmatch, David's great grandfather.
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Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures volatility is hitting retirement accounts and savings across the country. More Americans are exploring physical gold and silver for added diversification during unpredictable economic periods. Preserve Gold offers straightforward education on how precious metals can be included in an IRA. Text IHEART to 50505 for your free wealth Protection Guide and with a qualified purchase, you could receive up to 50, $15,000 in free gold or silver. I am from the future and all of this goes horribly wrong. Critics are calling good luck. Have fun, don't die. Absolute chaotic perfection.
- [23:23]
B
AI. Isn't that a thing already? It gets a lot worse, honey.
- [23:26]
A
Sam Rockwell is electric. Who's joining me? Who's ready to save the future? Five stars.
- [23:33]
B
This is real. Pretty much, yeah.
- [23:35]
A
It's going to be okay.
- [23:36]
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Or it's not. I don't know.
- [23:40]
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Only in theaters February 13th. Tickets on sale now.
- [23:48]
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So who was Lori? Lori Diane Hubert was born on August 22, 1949, in Fresno, California, to parents Lawrence Potter and Meline Grieve. Lori was married four times. Her first marriage, in 1965 to John Carlson, took place when she was just 16. Her son John was a product of this marriage to her first husband, but the couple divorced in 1967. With her second husband, whom she married in 1969, she had a son who was the apple of her eye. This son, Danny, contracted cancer and died at just 10 years old. Apparently, Laurie never got over this. She divorced her second husband in 1974 and then married again in 1977. They divorced in 1981. She married Jack Potter in July of 1983 and moved to San Diego. Laurie was described by her first three ex husbands and her son John as a somewhat challenging person to live with. She was diagnosed bipolar and could be abrasive and withdrawn. She had few friends, was an alcoholic, dabbled in drugs, according to some of her ex husbands, and suffered from agoraphobia, which would become an important piece of evidence later. Her second and third marriages were chaotic and included some domestic violence issues. And, of course, the death of her son contributed greatly to her mental decline. John, her older son, moved out of his mother's house when he was just 15 after clashing with her two subsequent husbands and observing the downward spiral into grief and alcoholism of his mother. He was raised by Laurie's father from that time on, who left him his house when he died in 1993. The investigators were able to obtain a DMV photo of Lori dating from the late 1990s. When she died in October 2003, she was 54 years old and living at the house in Temecula. Lori had last been known to be living there with her husband, Jack Dennis Potter. And then she disappeared. There was no missing persons report filed for Laurie. Her father had died, her son Danny had died, and she was not in touch with her first three husbands. We don't know what her relationship with her mother was like, but her mom didn't report her missing either, and died in 2004, just one year after Laurie did. Laurie's brother Jeffrey told the investigators he had not seen his sister since 1983. Her son John had moved out when he was young. He told the investigators that he wasn't really close with his mom, and they stayed in touch sporadically with a holiday card or a call, once in a blue moon. John had seen his mom and her fourth husband, Jack Potter, and in 1990, and he and his wife and children had visited them in 1998 and again in 2002 after that. John had good reason to believe that she was alive and just living her life somewhere, as we will hear more about later. But she wasn't. And Laurie's husband at the time of her death, Jack Potter, had not reported her missing. And as we all know, that can be a giant red flag. On May 14, 2021, the San Diego County Sheriff's Office held a press conference to announce the identification of the legs found in the Rancho San Diego dumpster. But that was not all. They had made an arrest for her murder. Undersheriff Kelly Martinez said this was the first case in the history of the agency in which an unidentified victim was identified using IgG and an arrest was subsequently made for the murder of that victim. Sheriff's Lt. Thomas Seaver told the assembled media, quote, this case was unlikely the to ever have been solved without the use of investigative genetic genealogy. And that was an understatement because this was one of those cases in which identifying the victim led police straight to her killer. Whoever had killed Lori Potter and dismembered her and put her legs in that dumpster had taken for granted that she would never be identified because he had not been careful and in fact, had engaged in egregious behavior after Laurie was killed that pointed directly to his involvement. The man arrested was Laurie's husband, Jack Potter. At the press conference, the San Diego Sheriff's Office would say only that, quote, the investigation revealed substantial and conclusive evidence that Jack had murdered Laurie, end quote. They didn't at that time reveal the basis for that belief. Lt. Seaver stated that the Sheriff's office investigation into Jack Potter was ongoing and requested that anyone who knew Laurie and jack back in 2003 please contact them. The investigators were working to gather all the evidence they could to put together an airtight case for murder against Potter. One reporter asked the Sheriff's office personnel how Lori Potter's family had reacted to the news that she'd been identified. The answer was her family was happy that they'd identified the suspect, but it was bittersweet to learn that she was dead. So what did they have on Jack Potter? Once they identified Lori through IGG, the investigators launched into a more traditional investigation. Sheriff's Lt. Thomas Seaver explained. Once we identified Laurie, we went back through her life and tried to identify who she was, where she was living, who her friends and family were during that timeframe. In preparation for arrest and an eventual trial, the investigators had done a ton of work to dredge up every bit of evidence they could pointing to Potter for the murder of his wife. Troy Dugall, the seasoned detective who closed this case, told the media at the press conference that his agency worked closely with the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Office to gather information on Laurie and Jack Potter, their relationship, and what had happened both before and after the time Laurie disappeared. This involved interviews with both Potter's friends, family, neighbors, associates, and so on, as well as extensive digging into Jack Potter's life. He had no criminal record. But what the investigators found was shocking. Jack Dennis Potter was born in Santa Barbara county on July 6, 1952, to Father Jack M. Potter and Shirley Steagall. Potter was a software engineer who worked on software programs for Disney, among other things, and was described as intelligent and mild mannered. He had been married young in May 1972 at age 19 to Sally W. And they had two daughters together. They divorced in 1976. Potter was reportedly a welcome, soothing influence on Laurie Hubert, whose other marriages had been tumultuous. The two had spent a lot of time together. As I mentioned, Laurie was reclusive and did not like to go out. You'll hear why later. But the investigators were absolutely not inclined to call up Jack Potter and say, hey, we think your wife might have been found in a dumpster. Will you talk to us? They very quickly suspected, thanks to financial and other records they uncovered, that he was involved in what happened to his wife. They decided to take a different approach. As soon as the San Diego investigators identified Lori and located her last known address in Temecula and started digging around into her husband, Detective Dugall and his partner went right over to that neighborhood and started knocking on doors. The woman who lived across the street from Jack and Lori Potter seemed as though she had been waiting for them. Susie and her husband Dave had lived in the neighborhood for years, including when the Potters lived there, and Susie could not have been a better witness if the detectives had made her up. She was observant, inquisitive, suspicious, and apparently always looking out the window. When Detective Dugall pulled up to Susie and Dave's door and identified himself as a San Diego County Sheriff's Office investigator investigating a missing persons case, Susie burst out with Lori Potter. That fucker cut her up and threw her in the trash. And that was just the beginning. Detective Dugall and his partner went in and sat down with Dave and Susie, who said Dave accused her of watching too many murder shows. Dave stop mansplaining and let Susie watch Dateline in peace. Anyway, Susie had a lot to tell the investigators. She said that Jack Potter was a very nice, calm person who often smoked outside the house. He was amicable and social with her and her husband. However, Susie said that Laurie was a hermit who didn't hang with the neighbors. Susie knew Laurie had a son who had died. Laurie had a cat she worshiped, and she told people her dead son Danny had been reincarnated in the cat whose name I don't know. The cat's meow translated to Laurie as Mommy. She had basically transferred her love for her deceased child to her kitty companion, to the point that the cat slept in a child's crib and Laurie would make her husband get up in the night to feed it like a baby. Susie also said that Laurie was a creature of habit, someone who probably clung to her routines to provide a sense of order and control in her life. She said that every day Laurie would open the curtains in the front windows of her home and her cat would sit in the window looking outside. But one day, the curtains never opened and the cat vanished and Susie never saw Laurie again. Susie remembered specifically that the date around when this happened was in the Latter Half of 2003, based on what she recalled about the timing of of the birth of her daughter and the circumstances her family was in at the time. This meshed with the date on which the investigators knew Laurie had been killed. October 2003. Susie recounted an event on the night before the cat and Laurie disappeared. Jack brought out the trash cans from his garage. She could hear the wheels as he wheeled them down the driveway. She remarked upon this because Jack also liked to maintain routines and he never ever had taken the trash bins out late at night before. This piqued Susie's interest, so she started watching out the window. After placing the bins, Jack brought a clearly heavy black trash bag out over his shoulder and deposited into the bin. He went back inside and came out with another heavy bag and hurled that one into the bin as well. Okay, that was all odd, but the next day, the curtains didn't open and the cat wasn't in the window. And the phone in Susie and Dave's house rang and the caller was Jack Potter asking Dave to come over and help him move a heavy item of furniture. Dave said, of course, and headed over. Susie said, hell no, you're not going without me. And marched right over there with Dave. Jack opened the door and she immediately noted a large wet spot on the carpet in the foyer at the base of the staircase. It had clearly just been cleaned. Jack asked Dave to help him move a dresser upstairs. They picked it up and it was super heavy. So Susie opened the drawers to empty them and saw they were full of of women's clothing and underwear. Lori's car was in the garage and Lori's purse was sitting there in the house. But there was no sign of Lori. Citizen Detective. Susie said, where's Lori? Jack Potter said she ran off with a man she met on the Internet. Susie knew that this was ridiculous. Laurie had a literal phobia of strangers. Remember I mentioned she was agoraphobic and she would not leave behind her purse and clothes? And there was the weird nocturnal behavior with the trash bins and heavy bags and the wet spot on the rug. And where was the cat? Susie told Jack. She didn't believe him. He said something along the lines of, you know, I was a sniper in Vietnam, right? Do you know how many people I've killed? Susie knew this was a veiled threat. Back at home, she told Dave Jack killed her and cut her up and threw her out with the trash. Dave didn't want to hear it. They didn't call the police, and Susie stored all of that in her memory banks. And to relate to Detective Dugal. Eighteen years later, Detective Dugal drew up a search warrant for Laurie and Jack Potter's Temecula house. It was now occupied by a young female renter. As soon as she learned from the detectives that a woman had gone missing from that house and ended up in parts in a dumpster, she packed up and left. So when Detective Dugall executed a search warrant on the house, it was vacant, which allowed them to shine Bluestar or Luminol and use other evidentiary search methods on the walls and floors and in the bathroom and bedroom, looking for any sign that Laurie had been killed and dismembered. In the home they found nothing. But a look at Potter's financial records and activities was a different story. As soon as Laurie disappeared, Jack noticeably changed his behavior and went on a massive spending spree. Within months, he bought a brand new Chevy Silverado, a new Hummer, a new speedboat, and he had a new female friend, a dancer he met at a strip club. Guess what her name Was? Lori. Laurie 2.0 was easy for Detective Dugall to track down, and she too had a lot to say about Jack Potter. In 2003, she had been a dancer at a strip club in Brea near Los Angeles. Jack Potter traveled to that area for work quite a bit, and he started to become infatuated with Lori number two. It started with over tipping her and seeking her attention. He gave her way more money than any other patrons. This continued for months, and Potter started taking her out to dinner and getting her a hotel room when he was in town. But he always stayed in another room. And according to Laurie number two, their relationship was not a sexual one. As soon as his wife, Laurie number one, had left, as he told the second, Laurie Potter moved to Rancho Cucamonga. He invited Laurie number two to his Temecula home and told her she could have anything of his wife's she wanted. Susie across the street witnessed this. Tatted up Laurie number two at the house, her mind spinning. But the second, Laurie didn't want any of Laurie no. 1's stuff. When Potter offered her his brand new Silverado, though, she did not say no. Potter ended up buying her a brand new Hummer instead when she decided she liked that better. Detective Dugall verified all this information about Laurie no. 2 in interviews with her best friend at the time, who witnessed the situation with Potter and all the gifting and attention. Where was he getting all this money? Let me clarify here that at no time did Jack Potter declare his wife, Laurie, deceased. He did not collect life insurance on her. He did not inherit anything from her that we know of. Although if they had a joint bank account, all that money became his. When Laurie disappeared, Potter, in fact, made sure that he maintained the illusion that she was alive. Over the ensuing months and even years, he used her name and her credit to enrich himself. This is taken from a statement from the San Diego County DA's office. Quote, Potter became obsessed in 2003 with a woman he met at a strip club who shared the same first name as his wife. Within weeks of Lori's legs being discovered, Potter opened multiple credit accounts and made extravagant purchases, including a new pickup truck, a Hummer SUV, and a ski boat. He gifted the Hummer and boat to his new girlfriend, rented her an apartment in Corona Hills, and provided her with a credit card carrying a $30,000 limit. In the years that followed, Potter maintained the deception, opening credit cards in Lori's name and fraudulently filing family court documents claiming he had contacted Laurie about the proceedings. Years after she had been murdered. He utilized the family court to sell their family home in Temecula and pocket all the profits, end quote. So essentially, Potter got rid of his wife so he could be with an exotic dancer. He showered with expensive gifts and added to his amex card account. He funded this despicable and pathetic relationship by maintaining the facade that Laurie, his wife, was still alive, using her credit to pay for gifts for Laurie number two. Now, I mentioned that Laurie 2.0 told Detective Dugall that her relationship with Jack Potter was not a sexual one. Of course, my first thought was, does she think we were born yesterday? What on earth would be in it for Potter if he weren't getting something in return? And it was also hard for Detective Dugall to believe Potter was buying her all this stuff. Boats, cars, lingerie and so on, and not expecting sex. But he told me that in subsequent interviews with Laurie, he started to believe her. She happily accepted all the gifts, money and attention and said Potter didn't expect sex. And in his post arrest interview, when asked about the situation with Lori no. 2, Potter said simply that he just thought she was pretty and she deserved gifts and he never even asked her for sex. Then why the hell did he kill his wife?
- [39:12]
A
Support for the show comes from Public the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETF with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member finra NSIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures volatility is hitting retirement accounts and savings across the country. More Americans are exploring physical gold and silver for added diversification during unpredictable economic periods. Preserve Gold offers straightforward education on how precious metals can be included in an IRA text. Iheart to 50505 for your free wealth Protection Guide and with a qualified purchase, you could receive up to 15 $15,000 in free gold or silver. I am from the future and all of this goes horribly wrong. Critics are calling good luck, have fun, don't die. Absolute chaotic perfection.
- [40:52]
B
AI. Isn't that something already? It gets a lot worse, honey.
- [40:56]
A
Sam Rockwell is electric. Who's joining me? Who's ready to save the future? Five stars.
- [41:03]
B
This is real. Pretty much, yeah.
- [41:05]
A
It's going to be okay.
- [41:06]
B
Or it's not. I don't know.
- [41:10]
A
We did our only theaters February 13th. Tickets on sale now.
- [41:16]
B
In 2008, Potter was still whining and dining Lori number two. But she drew the line when he came to her and said, I want to marry you so you can take the name Lori Potter and sign the sale documents on the Tula house as her. You see, Potter had a problem. He wanted to sell the Temecula house he had been renting out. But his wife Lori Potter's name was also on the deed. Laurie number two, wisely refused to do this. Potter was going to have to figure out how to sell the house without his wife. So he went about doing all the things he needed to do to get family court to allow him to proceed. He put legal notices in the papers that he was planning on divorcing Laurie and so on. Eventually, he filed documents with the court that he had divorced his wife and convinced them that he alone had power to sell the house. They went for it, and the house was sold. In 2010, in order to achieve a divorce from his first wife, who had been dead for five years, Potter got Lori number two to do something fraudulent to help his case. She attested in court documents dated November 7, 2008, that she had served Lori Potter with divorce papers at the Rancho Cuncomonga address where Potter was living. I did not understand that at all. After all, Lori no. 2 was an exotic dancer, not a process server. But Detective Dugall told me that in California, any regular citizen can serve court papers as long as the server is not the plaintiff. So it was actually believable that Potter's female friend would serve his wife, and the court bought it. Not only that, but the forged divorce papers established falsely that Laurie no. 1 was alive and living in Rancho Cucamonga, when in reality, she never left Temecula alive. The divorce was finalized in 2009, all without any participation from the dead Lori Potter. Here is a statement from the San Diego county da Summer Stephan. Over the years, Potter continued opening credit cards in Laurie's name and fraudulently filing family court documents claiming he had contacted his wife about the proceedings years after she had been murdered. End quote. Detective Dugall had to prove all this, so he used search warrants to access all the banking, financial, property tax and other records of Jack Potter. He found the purchase and lease documents for the truck and the Hummer and boat. He found the apartment rental for Lori no. 2. And he found out about the Amex card Potter shared with Lori no. 2, the credit cards in Potter's wife Lori's name, and the fraudulent sale of their house. In looking into records about Laurie number one, it was noted there were no records of her being alive since 2003 other than the credit cards that Potter opened and used to fund his obsession with Lori number two and the Forged signature on the divorce papers. Potter's movie was to default on one card and move on to the next. Lori number two's statements about the purchases made hotels and restaurants helped track all these expenses and prove that they were made by Jack Potter, not his wife Lori. And the final proof of that was that DNA proved Lori had been dead since October 5, 2003. Based on the legs in the dumpster, only one person had access to her financial and credit information. Now, in 2021, Potter was still living in Rancho Cucamonga. Lori number two was long gone from his life. When Detective Dugall tracked her down, she admitted that she and her friend suspected Potter had killed his wife. They found it really odd that his wife suddenly left and then Potter offered her all her stuff. He never talked about the first Laurie, except when it became obvious that he was unable to contact her about the sale of their home. Lori number two's friend remembered that in about the second week in October 2003, Potter came into the strip club where they both worked and offered his car to her. Knowing that she needed a new car, he agreed to meet her and sign his Ford Contours registration over to her. When she got into the vehicle, she said it reeked so bad of Pine Sol that she had to leave all the windows open the whole time. When she and Lori number two opened the trunk, they found it was lined with black plastic trash bags. This was when they knew that he had killed his wife and transported at least part of her in the car. Detective Dugall really wanted to find that contour because of the story told by Lori and her friend. He was convinced that that was the car used to transport Lori's legs. Unfortunately, he learned the car had eventually been bought by a young guy who totaled it in a DUI rollover. The car was crushed into a tiny cube and was not searchable for DNA. Detective Dugall and senior crime analyst Vandersip had noted through property records that Jack Potter had a direct connection with to the Country Hills apartments complex where his wife Lori's legs had been found. According to various databases, Potter and Lori had lived together at 1628 Hilton Head Court, Apartment 2236, before moving to Temecula. Detective Dugal was eager to find some evidence to prove that. He tracked down Jack Potter's ex wife, Sally W. And asked her if she had ever visited Potter when he was living in San Diego. A little background here. Sally hated Potter for abandoning her and their two daughters. They had divorced and he had married Lori and was not supporting his prior family. So she brought the girls to the address where they knew he was living to try to collect some money. She said it was in El Cajon Rancho, San Diego, in a big apartment complex. She and her girls, Potter's daughters, were able to describe it perfectly. And everything they described meshed exactly with the Country Hills apartment complex. Sally recounted when she confronted Potter at the apartment complex. When she knocked on the door, Laurie answered it and would not allow them inside. She closed the door on Sally's face. But then Jack came to the door and invited Sally in to talk. He greeted his two little daughters but confused their names. He then left them outside and they had nothing to do but sit and look around. So they were able to perfectly describe the place where Potter and Laurie had lived. The dumpster where Laurie's legs were found was on that very block. So by now the investigators had loads and loads of circumstantial evidence to prove that Jack Potter murdered his wife Lori. It was time to make an arrest. Detective Dugal wanted to arrest Potter himself, but he had to follow his agency's policies about making orchestrated arrests of suspected murderers. He met with members of the San Diego Regional Fugitive Task Force and brought them up to speed on Jack Potter and his current address at the Ironwood apartments in the 11200 block of Fifth street in Rancho Cucamonga. Because the case was nearly 20 years old and Potter was in his 60s, they didn't anticipate a violent shoot em up situation. So on May 12, 2021, members of the task force dressed in flip flops and shorts. And when they saw that Potter's truck was parked outside his condo, they enacted a ruse. One of the task force guys knocked on his door and said, hey, excuse me, is that your Silverado? I accidentally backed into it. Potter said, oh, how bad is it? He stepped outside and was told to put his hands behind his back. What is this about? He asked. The detective will tell you in a minute, the officer said. Potter remained completely calm. They loaded him into a patrol car and he asked no more questions all the way back to San Diego, an 80 mile drive. When they arrived, he was jailed at San Diego Central Jail without bail. He had to know this arrest was coming. He had probably seen the extensive news coverage of his old apartment complex. When the legs were first found back in 2003, it was all over the local news. He probably kicked himself for putting the legs somewhere where they were so easily found. And I like to think he spent the next 18 years waiting for the doorbell to ring.
- [48:30]
A
Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis. Not so someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures volatility is hitting retirement accounts and savings across the country, more Americans are exploring physical gold and silver silver for added diversification during unpredictable economic periods. Preserve Gold offers straightforward education on how precious metals can be included in an IRA. Text IHEART to 50505 for your free wealth protection Guide and with a qualified purchase you could receive up to $15,000 in free gold or silver. I am from the future and all of this goes horribly wrong. Critics are calling good luck. Have fun, don't die. Absolute, absolute chaotic. Perfection.
- [50:10]
B
AI. Isn't that a thing already? It gets a lot worse, honey.
- [50:14]
A
Sam Rockwell is electric. Who's joining me? Who's ready to save the future? Five stars.
- [50:21]
B
This is real. Pretty much, yeah.
- [50:23]
A
It's gonna be okay.
- [50:24]
B
Or it's not. I don't know.
- [50:28]
A
Only in theaters February 13th. Tickets on sale now.
- [50:35]
B
After obtaining a buccal swab from Potter pursuant to a warrant, a criminalist with the San Diego County Sheriff's Regional Crime Lab took cuttings from the bottom and sides of the handle of the green military duffel bag and compared them to Potter's DNA. Approximately 89% of the DNA in that sample came from one male. The report says, quote, Jack Potter best aligns with the 89% contributor of that sample and is included in the mixture with very strong support for inclusion. Jack Potter initially pleaded not guilty to charges of second degree murder because they didn't have her body and could not prove cause of death, they stayed away from charging him with first degree murder. The start of Potter's trial got dragged out for several years. For one thing, it was Covid. Everything got delayed. Potter also did everything he could to delay things himself, claiming he was ill and had dementia, firing his attorneys, trying to represent himself, and so on. Finally, prosecutor Mark Amador decided to take control away from Potter and schedule a grand jury to consider an indictment. Much of the evidence gathered by Detective Dugal was presented to the grand jury and an indictment was handed down on August 14, 2024, charging Jack Potter with one count of murder, stating, quote, on or about and between September 1, 2003 and October 5, 2003, Jack Dennis Potter did unlawfully murder Lori Potter, a human being, in violation of and names the appropriate statute there. In February 2025, facing a looming trial, Potter finally changed his plea to guilty to second degree murder. On Valentine's Day 2025, the perfect date for a man who was pleading guilty to killing his wife, Jack Potter wrote on his plea form, I unlawfully and personally killed my wife, Lori Potter. I acted with implied malice while involved in a physical struggle with my wife. I committed the act of preventing her from breathing, knowing it was dangerous to human life, and proceeded to do it anyway, which resulted in her death. I killed my wife without lawful excuse or justification. So there you heard it in plain English on the plea form. But what exactly had Jack Potter admitted to to the investigators? For the three and a half years since his arrest, he had steadfastly maintained that he did not kill his wife. In his initial interview, he told the investigators that Laurie had left him, leaving town with another man. He never named this man, claiming not to know who he was. He said, how terrible that she turned out murdered. In a later interview, he took ownership of the duffel bag the legs were found in, undermining the DNA evidence that linked him to the bag. He did admit to having done some bad things. The fraudulent credit cards, frequenting strip clubs and giving gifts to strippers, although he denied having sex with any of them. He even admitted to what Detective Dugal referred to as stolen valor, a term I hadn't heard, but which certainly applies here. According to an AI overview on Google, stolen valor refers to the act of falsely claiming military service, rank, medals or other accomplishments to gain respect or benefit from it. The term is often used in connection with the Stolen Valor act of 2013, which criminalizes the false misrepresentation of receiving a military decoration or medal. Can I just say how sad it is that so many people engage in this disrespectful and and reprehensible behavior that they had to pass a law about it anyway? Potter was in the Marine Corps for three years, but his assignment was as a linguist, a foreign language specialist who was stationed at Camp Pendleton in the United States. Although he claimed to have served in Vietnam, he actually saw no combat whatsoever and didn't even go overseas. Not only that, in his home were found several items of stolen valor purportedly issued to Jack Potter that, in fact, he never really earned. Upon his arrest, his home was searched, and in it, Detective Dugall found a Purple Heart hanging on display and framed photos of Vietnam showing men who resembled Potter but were not him. Potter even had an antique Chevy Nova fully wrapped in an American flag wrap with Vietnam Vet emblazoned on it. And he had a sticker on the window of his truck of the sniper company he air quote, belonged to. He also had a military issue jacket with all the patches he, quote, unquote, earned in his sniper unit. It was all faked. He was an imposter. As for the duffel bags his wife's legs were found in, this was not something that had been issued to Potter in connection with his military service. Detectives believe he purchased the military grade duffel bag at an Army Navy store or the equivalent. So, anyway, back to Potter's initial interview. He admitted to a bunch of bad stuff, the credit card fraud, the stolen valor, and so on. But he drew the line at admitting that he killed his wife. That absolutely did not happen, he said. Four years later, with evidence piled up, trial looming, and Potter and his attorneys seeking a plea deal, his tune changed. He didn't give as complete a confession as we would like, but his attorney was authorized to relay to the prosecution that on the night of October 4, 2003, Potter and his wife Laurie argued and he smothered her by placing his hand over her mouth until she stopped breathing. He never used the word killed, and he claimed not to remember what he did after that. He didn't provide any more details, as we heard. In exchange for his confession, he signed a plea agreement on February 14, 2025. On May 2 of this year, a sentencing hearing was held to hand down Potter's sentence. It was largely a formality since his sentence was established by the plea agreement, but it afforded the family a chance to confront Potter in court. And by family, I mean Laurie's son, John Carlson. It's easy to see why John lost touch with his mother and. And didn't know she was missing. He had moved out of the house as a young teen, associating it with trauma and rejection, and emotionally detached himself from his mom. But the tragedy is that he had no chance to repair the relationship when he was ready to do so. In a statement he read in court, John explained that he had lost touch with his mom, but had tried over the years to reestablish contact with her. The only contact person he had was Jack Potter. He last saw his mother in 2002, and then he stopped by the Potter house in temecula and in 2005 and was surprised to hear they moved. A neighbor, clearly not Susie, gave him Lori and Jack's address in Rancho Cucamonga. And so he went over there. Potter told him Lori left with a man and moved to New York. He said, she's fine. I'm still sending her money every month. John gave up on contacting his mom after Potter told him that she, quote, just wanted to be alone, which unfortunately I believed, and that really hurts to this day. This from the San Diego Union Tribune, quote, Carlson said he had trusted Potter, who at the time seemed like the perfect guy for her. He was the last person that I suspected would ever do anything like that. At the conclusion of his statement, Carlson said he forgave Potter in part because of a letter he received from the defendant, which Carlson said included sincere expressions of remorse. End quote. Let me address this letter by way of background. Years earlier, John had spent enough time in several visits with his mother's fourth husband to get to know and and trust him, as he said. According to John, Potter was always nice to him and always quite religious, talking about the Bible and helping him understand its passages. The letter John received from Potter after his arrest purports to express remorse, but uses the passive voice and avoids actually accepting responsibility. For example, it states, Dear John, I just want to say how incredibly sorry I am for all that happened. I honestly tried to do my best to help mom, but it ended up failing her. Just like everyone else in her life, I will now carry the guilt and remorse until I die. I hope and pray that you believe me that I never wanted to hurt her and subsequently you. And I honestly still can't remember all that happened. I pray that you can find it in your heart to forgive me my failure. The letter goes on to say that he knows that Laurie is in heaven and to cite various pieces of scripture to support his next sentence, which says, please take some solace in knowing that she is now far better Off. Potter also says, I pray for you daily and for your family. Remember how I gave up my family and my daughters for mom. None of that availed anything. I still failed mom. Don't make the same mistakes I made. Learn from me. Cherish your children and grandchildren. Don't end up alone, especially in your old age. Look at me, John. Who will bury me when I die? Who will mourn my passing? Don't end up like me. After citing some more scripture, he closes the letter with again, I'm so sorry for what happened. Please forgive me. We're all a little suspicious of Potter's motives in writing the letter to John, preaching Bible passages to seek forgiveness for, quote, what happened to his mother seems particularly smarmy and manipulative. And John's wife was also side eyeing Potter. Years earlier, she had also caught wind that something fishy was up with her husband's mother's disappearance. She told Potter she wanted John's mom to see her grandkids and said, where is she? Potter told her and John that his wife had left him for a pastor. John's wife did not believe this story and called Potter out on it. And Potter issued the same subtle threat that he had used with the across the street neighbors Susie and Dave. He said to her, have you seen all my medals that I earned in Vietnam? I was a sniper and I killed a lot of people. I call bs. Before he was formally sentenced, Potter was permitted to make a statement. This from the LA Times. Quote, Potter expressed remorse during Friday's hearing. He said, I just want to apologize for what happened. I let my emotions get the better of me that one time. I don't know why it just happened and I'm sorry. That one time. Do you mean the time that you murdered your wife and chopped her up and put her in the trash? Do you mean that one time when you bought that Hummer for your girlfriend? Or do you mean the time when you sold your wife's house and spent the proceeds on her replacement? Anyway, at the conclusion of all the statements, 72 year old Jack Potter was sentenced pursuant to the plea agreement to 15 to life in state prison plus a $10,000 fine. A press release from the San Diego County DA's office read, quote, this was a brutal, calculated murder that shattered the lives of Lori's loved ones who then had to endure nearly 20 years of unanswered questions and unimaginable grief. DA Summer Steffen said. Thanks to the extraordinary work of law enforcement, our cold case homicide unit and deputy district attorneys Julie Lynn and Mark Amador. Justice has finally been served. Their dedication and refusal to give up on this case, no matter how much time passed, led to this long overdue resolution. DA Stephan continued. This case is a stark reminder that the pursuit of justice never stops. And neither does the grief of those who lose someone to violence. Today we honor Laurie's memory and stand with her family in their long awaited moment of justice. The Potter conviction was an exciting one for the San Diego County Sheriff's Office Cold Case Unit. It was the first case in which they'd used IGG to identify a Doe, resulting in an arrest and conviction. And the suspect's plea agreement called for him to cop to second degree murder, the same thing he was originally charged with. He was not permitted to plead down since the evidence was strong, if largely circumstantial. This is a testament to the incredible work done by the San Diego investigators who left no stone unturned in their quest to nail Jack Potter for what he did to Laurie. Still, Detective Dugall told me it was a relief when Potter ended up confessing and taking a plea. You never know what's going to happen in a trial and what's going to persuade or dissuade a jury. And in this case, although they had a determination of homicide by the original medical examiner, they still didn't know how Laurie was killed or where the rest of her was. They did have Potter's DNA on the duffel bag, but he could have sowed doubt in the minds of the jury by claiming that the bag was his and of course, his DNA would be on it. And he also maintained Laurie had packed it up and taken it with her when she left, raising the possibility that someone else could have killed her and put her legs in it. Would they have enough to get a conviction? No one wanted to find out. So what actually happened to Laurie? I go back and forth as to whether I think this crime was premeditated. If what Jack Potter revealed to his defense attorney and was passed on to the prosecution is to be believed, he smothered his wife in a fit of anger during an argument. Potter claims not to remember any details after that, but I think we know what happened thanks to the neighbor, Susie. After Laurie was dead, Potter cut her up with an electric saw and put some of her in plastic bags, which he took out with the household trash. The legs. For unknown reasons, he decided to drive to Rancho San Diego and put in the dumpster behind the building where he and Laurie had shared an apartment. Who knows what his thinking was with this decision? Perhaps the legs were simply too long to fit in his residential trash bin and he knew there was a dumpster there that was kept unlocked. He lined the trunk of his car with trash bags and put the legs in a military utility duffel bag and drove them to Country Hills apartment complex. He dumped the duffel and a couple of the black trash bags into the dumpster and drove away. Then he went home and cleaned something up in the foyer carpet and possibly killed and disposed of the cat. Or maybe that was the cat. Detective Dugall looked into the whereabouts of this cat in our conversation. I resisted the urge to tease him about being a pet detective like East Ventura Susie. The neighbor, had been told by Jack Potter that after Laurie left him, he took the cat to the vet that it normally went to near where they lived and suggested that the vet adopted it out. But Detective Dugall could never find that vet and has no doubt Potter killed the cat. It might even have been in one of the black trash bags that Susie saw him carrying out of the house. Oddly, when Detective Dugall seized and searched Potter's work computer, not only did it contain search history involving death and how long it takes people to die, it also contained cartoon images of a splattered cat. I asked Detective Dugall how Potter's first wife, Sally and his daughters felt when they learned he had murdered his second wife. They didn't seem particularly surprised. Sally and her daughters had no relationship with Potter since he abandoned them, and when he was arrested, his weird, undefined relationship with Laurie no. 2 was long over. Jack Potter was alone, just as he will be when he very likely dies in prison. Thank you so much to retired Cold Case investigator Troy Dugall and Senior Crime analyst Jeff Vandersip for speaking with me about this case after dropping teasers about their Crazy Legs case since we first worked together four years ago. Congratulations on getting Jack Potter. Recently, I let listeners know about a new benefit available to them called an ABJAC Insider Subscription that's available through Apple Podcasts. An abjak Insider subscription will give listeners ad free access to every bit of DNAID content published both past episodes and future episodes. It will also give you benefits like early access and bonus content. Head over to Apple Podcasts and click on the DNAID show page or the ABJAC Entertainment Channel to start a free trial. Thanks for listening to this episode of dnaid. If you'd like to listen to the show ad free and help support the show in the process, please head over to patreon.com DNAID and if you're interested in some fun. DNAID merch visit the store at customizedgirl.com s DNAIDpodcast. To contact the show, please email us at dnaidpodcastmail.com follow us on social media NAIDpodcast on Instagram, NAIDpodcast on Twitter or on Facebook at facebook.com DNAIDpodcast finally, if you want to visit our website, go to DNAIDpodcast.com you'll be able to get all the episodes of the show, leave comments on episodes that I can respond to, and you can even leave voicemails. You'll get all the latest news about the show and important updates, find links to our social media merch and a lot more. It's really your one stop shop for everything. Dnaid dnaid is written, researched and hosted by me, Jessica Bettencourt. It's produced by me and Mike Morford of abjack Entertainment Music by Connor Bettencourt. Check out our other collaborative podcasts, Scene of the Crime, Missing Persons and Beyond Bizarre True Crime.