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Subscribe where you're listening to this podcast so you don't miss an episode. Sam. On June 29, 2006, an excavation was underway in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada. This was not an archaeological investigation or a law enforcement dig looking for evidence or remains. No, it was simply a construction crew excavating old, leaking underground gas tanks at a former gas station, now Mac's convenience store, located on the east side of the city near Central Avenue and 108th street in the Sutherland area of Saskatoon. Cal Shroyan was the excavation team leader. His team dug a large pit around the gas tanks they were seeking to extract, but in digging, the heavy machinery broke through the wooden cribbing of a long abandoned well. Brackish water and sludge mixed with leached gasoline spilled out and a round object popped from the hole in the side of the well and rolled into the muddy pit. It was a human skull. The excavation team shut down operations and called the police. Homicide Detective Russ Friesen responded to the scene. At first glance, it appeared they might be looking at a First nations burial ground, but that didn't look quite right. Detective Friesen called in an expert, namely Dr. Ernie Walker, forensic archaeologist and professor of anthropology and archaeology at University of Saskatchewan. They spent three days digging. Dr. Walker later described the dig in great detail at a press conference. The well the excavation crew had dug into was deep and filled with a toxic mess of gasoline, groundwater, and other pollutants. Inside the hole in the side of the well, he observed what appeared to be pieces of an old barrel that had apparently gotten stuck about nine feet down in its trajectory down the well and remained suspended high above the well floor. Dr. Walker said, quote, unknown to the individual that dropped it. A piece of cribbing of the well had broken loose and blocked the barrel from going all the way down to the bottom, end quote. The well went deep into the ground, and extricating the pieces of the barrel and its macabre contents was a very delicate operation, Dr. Walker said. My colleagues and I used heavy equipment, did some excavation around the well and took it apart board by board. Once they removed some of the pieces of the barrel, the rounded wooden staves and unusual wooden hoops, they could see a sizable mass that had been inside the barrel. It was basically a soaking solidified toxic bundle, which clearly contained human bone, pieces and pieces of burlap that likely encased the body at one time. The retrieval was very difficult given the conditions and Dr. Walker's team being conscious of preserving evidence and not dropping any items or people to the bottom of the well. Dr. Walker dryly said that the whole thing was unpleasant. When they extricated the bundle, he observed that it was covered with adipocere. Adipocere means corpse wax and is formed by the breakdown of fatty tissue in a water environment. Dr. Walker said that the adipocere was a positive from an evidentiary standpoint because it acts as a natural preservation agent that slows down decomposition. But he said it's pretty nasty stuff. Dr. Walker's team set up a temporary morgue at the dig site because they didn't want to bring the toxic mass removed from the well into the medical examiner's office, given all the pollutants and gasoline it was soaked with. He removed the outer coating of adiposeer and itemized the contents of the now loosened bundle. It included pieces of a burlap sack, garment remnants, hay that had been deposited in the well, both broken and whole glass bottles and and a pair of women's boots. And there was flesh, bone and well preserved body parts, including organs and soft tissue. All the bones had been significantly softened from sitting in the gasoline water mixture, and they had to be handled very carefully. Once Dr. Walker got the bones cleaned of the flesh, he was able to perform an autopsy of sorts on the remains. Dr. Walker concluded that the body, that of a white female, had been wrapped in burlap and deposited into the barrel. The woman's left arm had been sawed off at the shoulder, likely so she would fit inside the barrel, and there was evidence of homicidal violence on her body. What exactly was done to her has not been released, but Detective Russ Friesen said at the time there is no doubt that the woman in the well succumbed to foul play and was placed in the barrel and inside the well in an attempt to hide her murder. I tried to get Saskatoon Police Service Detective sergeant Darren Funk to give me some more information on the cause of the woman's death, but no dice. All he would say is that there were some bones from her neck missing and her mandible was also missing. Now, it's very possible that these items had fallen down into the very bottom of the well as the body decomposed and were just never found. We remain in the dark about the cause of death, but it is attributed to homicidal violence. Very interestingly, some items of men's clothing, specifically a vest and pants, had been folded and placed on top of the body within the confines of the burlap. Police surmised that perhaps these clothing items bore evidence of violence, perhaps blood, and whoever was wearing them had to dispose of them to hide it. Unfortunately, even though investigators knew they had a homicide on their hands, they had no idea who their victim was. They had several clues to go on, though. One was her physical appearance, which was largely discernible, saskatoon police stated in a release. It was a miracle. According to investigators, the odds of recovering the body of someone in that condition who died so long ago are not good. I used to say that she wanted to be found, said Dr. Ernie Walker. Dr. Walker concluded that the woman in the well was white, between 25 and 35 years old and around 5 foot 1 inches tall, although she could have been as small as 4 foot 11. She had a prominent nose and light brown to reddish hair worn on the shorter side. Her facial features were distinguishable so that sketches and even a clay bust were made with that were believed to capture her image fairly accurately. Dr. Walker said he had to guess at the hairstyle, using contemporary catalogs showing what was in vogue at the time. Speaking of the time, when did the woman in the well date back to the Investigators used the physical items found with the body as well as the historical record of the region to determine when she was likely killed and placed in the well. They started with her teeth. The woman in the well was missing the mandible, which was never found, but her upper jaw exhibited evidence of periodontal disease causing cavities and abscesses and missing teeth. Dr. Walker noted that she had a filling, which was likely a very early example. A lot of information about the timeframe during which the woman in the well lived was gathered from her clothing. Police utilized a clothing and textile historian named Carol Wakabayashi, who assessed the garments found with the woman in the well and determined they were made of all natural fibers. This meant that they likely dated back to the pre 1920s and 30s when synthetics arose. The clothing items were an ornate black high collar fitted cropped jacket which would have been worn over a white high collar cotton lace blouse and paired with a black poplin skirt with ruffled edge and silk bodice. Her underwear was a white cotton pre1920 Corset with stays. The clothing suggested that the weather was cooler but not cold, perhaps autumn or spring. The attire was typical in the 1908-1916 timeframe. Dr. Walker, the forensic anthropologist said, quote, I did learn a lot about women's undergarments. He was referring to corsets and petticoats and the like. The woman in the well also wore ladies black leather stacked heel boots with front lace up and pointed toes circa 1910. Rounded toes on women's footwear came into fashion in 1914, so these boots likely predated that year somewhat. Finally, a broken 18 karat gold 24 inch long cable link necklace was found with the body. 18 Karat gold jewelry was not typical of this area of Canada and the necklace was believed to be of European origin or from an area of European influence such as Montreal. It likely dated to between 1910 and 1920. The necklace was likely missing a pendant or locket that had adorned it. All of this evidence pointed to the woman in the well being placed there between 1900 and about 1920. Her dental work, clothing and gold necklace pointed to her being middle or upper class. Bodies found with the mass in the well believed to have been thrown down the well after the barrel had been hidden. There were also from this time frame. Margaret Kennedy, a glass expert at the archaeology department at University of Saskatchewan, examined the bottles and tried to determine their origin. One bottle was a Gordon's gin bottle. Ms. Kennedy contacted the manufacturer in Europe and learned that the punt or boar's head on the bottle likely dated to around the late 19 teens. The woman in the well's timeframe for being killed and deposited there was narrowed to 1908 to 1920 and more likely about 1915 to 1920. As for the pieces of the barrel, nearly all the pieces of the barrel were recovered. It was noted that the hoops of the barrel were wooden, not the typical metal hoops that hold the staves in place. These types of barrels were used in winemaking, often in Europe. Any markings or labels on the barrel were long ago etched away and the barrel is untraceable. Local historians were instrumental in gathering data about the Sutherland area at the time researching whether a woman had gone missing. Back in the mid-19 teens, Sutherland was a tiny town of just about a thousand people and a Canadian Pacific Railway hub. Many travelers would have passed through the town and stayed in its inns and frequented its pubs. The old well had been on the property of the Shore Hotel, a boarding house owned by William Shore. The Saskatoon City historian Jeff o' Brien learned that the Shore Hotel had stood on that property and closed in 1914 and in 1920 it was seized for tax arrears. It was demolished sometime between 1925 and 1928 and in 1930 the gas station was erected on the property. Dr. Walker told the incredible story that while they were excavating the old well, an older gentleman approached them and said he remembered that there was a well there because there was a livery at the Shore Hotel. A livery was a short term boarding stable where travelers could leave their horses while they stayed at local establishments. Presumably the well was to furnish the horses with water. It was located at the back of the lot near the stable that had existed there. A report I found suggested that the well would likely have been abandoned in 1914 when Sutherland began getting water piped in from the city of Saskatoon. It definitely seems likely to me that whoever put the barrel in the well believed that the well was not being utilized and because the barrel would have blocked the water bucket from being lowered into the well, someone would have discovered the source of the blockage had it been in use. And the well having been abandoned would explain why people were throwing liquor bottles into it as those were not believed to have been placed inside the barrel with the woman in the well. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra fee full terms@mintmobile.com Saskatoon Police heavily publicized the finding of the woman in the well in hopes that someone might know of a woman in their family history who had gone missing. Of course, investigators had concerns that the woman in the well had come through the town via train and was itinerant, in which case there would be no community records to help identify her. Nonetheless, they used dental records relating to area missing persons reports dating back nearly a century to try to find out who she was. The RCMP also assisted the investigation. The Saskatoon Police Service unveiled a sketch made by RCMP Sgt. Michel Fournier and a Victoria Lywood clay bust that had been constructed to capture the woman in the well's likeness. This clay bust was based on penetrating X rays of the skull and was quite lifelike. As a result of this publicity, Police received about 30 calls from people across Canada and even from Europe, inquiring about missing loved ones, but were never able to make a connection. Dr. Walker presented the case all over Canada, but nothing came of his efforts. But the woman in the well was found in 2006. The investigators had more to go on than just clothing and dentals. They had DNA. The mixture of gasoline and water that the woman in the well was immersed in preserved her remains, including her DNA. In 2006, an STR DNA profile was obtained from two of her teeth, her pubic hair and her armpit hair, and placed in the file for use in comparing to any would be relatives of the woman in the well. Over the next nearly 20 years, over 50 women from near and far were ruled out as being the woman in the well. When all these efforts failed to provide an identity for the woman in the well, she was buried on September 29, 2009 in Woodlawn Cemetery with a concrete grave marker paid for by social services. The woman in the well rested in her grave for 14 years before her case saw significant movement. In 2023, the Saskatoon Police Service worked with Othram to obtain a SNP profile from her teeth. Othram uploaded the SNP profile to the databases and found five genetic relatives living in Alberta, the United States and Ireland. Then a detective with the Saskatoon Police Service began following up with those genetic relatives in an attempt to identify the woman missing from their families. Saskatoon Police Service Detective Sergeant Darren Funk later addressed his involvement in the case in a press conference. He said that for once he was in the right place at the right time. He joined the Saskatoon Police Service's Historical crime unit in January 2025, and his predecessor had already started using IGG for the woman in the well case. The oldest on record in the jurisdiction, Othram had named some genetic relatives of the Jane Doe and the investigator had started contacting some of the relatives to ask if someone was missing a female relative in Saskatoon 100 years ago. When Sgt. Funk took on the case, he too started making calls, trying to lock down the family trees of these genetic relatives by gathering information and DNA samples. I basically became a telemarketer, he said. But no one knew of any missing relatives or even any relatives at all. In Saskatoon, the IGG investigation stalled. The big break came in June 2025, when Sergeant Funk attended a homicide case study at the Canadian Police College in Ottawa. The study was led by the Toronto Police Service's Cold Case Unit in House Genealogy Team, which handled igg analyses for 17 different Ontario law enforcement agencies. Sgt. Funk started talking to the head TPS genealogist about the woman in the well. On July 3, she received the file and eight days later the Toronto police identified her. Katie Crossman of the TPS IGG team reported that when her team started analyzing the case, all they knew was that the woman in the well had to have been born in the 1880-1885 timeframe and that she was of Irish descent. They had a bunch of distant family DNA matches, with the two top matches to the woman in the well being first cousins of Irish heritage who were born in the US in the 1950s and 60s. Both of them were descended from the golden family. They shared 207 and 166 centimorgans of DNA with the woman in the well, respectively. Then a set of sisters from the McPartland family shared 101 and 89 centimorgans of DNA with the woman in the well. Several lesser matches had the surname Flynn. The IG team located an ancestral couple of the two top matches. This was Anne Flynn, born 1838, and Christopher golden, born 1832. Anne Flynn was descended from the marriage between Philip Flynn and Sarah McPartlin or McPartley. Sarah's parents were the great great grandparents of the sisters, who shared 89 and 101 centimorgans with the woman in the well. Anne Flynn and her husband, Christopher golden, had emigrated from Ireland to Michigan. They were the great great grandparents of the Top Match cousins. One woman in this tree had moved to Saskatoon, so for a moment the genealogists thought they had it solved. But this woman had died of pneumonia and was publicly acknowledged, so there was no way she was the woman in the well. Staying with the ancestral couple, the genealogists learned that Anne and Christopher had three children. Their son Thomas was the great grandfather of the top DNA match sisters. Their son William had no children. Their daughter Bridget married a man named Thomas Burke when she was 17. That couple and three of their children were documented in the 1880 census in Michigan there was no 1890 census. By the time of the 1900 census, Bridget was widowed and living in Ashland, Wisconsin. Her census entry reflected that she had borne seven children, four of whom were still living. One of these was a daughter named Alice Burke, born to Bridget and her now deceased husband Thomas Burke in 1881. Alice was reflected in local directories as living with her mother Bridget and then with her sister Sarah in Ashland, Wisconsin in the 1901 time frame. The genealogists traced the modern family trees of siblings of this mysterious Alice Burke. Her sister Sarah had four great grandchildren living in California. She reached out to them and learned one had tested with ancestry. So she uploaded her results to Gedmatch and found that she shared 592 centimorgans of autosomal DNA and 114 centimorgans of X DNA with the woman in the well. This was consistent with being her great great niece. But who was she? They had no known women in Thomas and Bridges descendants trees who had any ties to Saskatoon. But they had the name Alice Burke, whose trail petered out in the very early 1900s after being placed in Ashland, Wisconsin. They couldn't place her in Saskatoon, but they located a Duluth, Minnesota newspaper article about her visiting her sister there. So they started concentrating in that area and found that Alice was living in Duluth in the 1901-1903 timeframe. Then they found a 1904 marriage record documenting a union between Alice Burke and Charles Spence in Duluth. Following the trail of Charles and Alice Spence, the genealogist hit paydirt border crossing records reflected that Charles, Alice and their daughter Adela moved to Sutherland, Saskatoon where Charles sister lived in 1913. After 1916, documentary evidence of Alice ceased. The genealogy team presented the theory that the woman in the well was Alice Burke spence, born in 1881. DNA testing of Alice's suspected great granddaughter Cindy confirmed it. Cindy was the daughter of Alice's daughter Idella's son Cindy shared 636 centimorgans of DNA/182 centimorgans of autosomal DNA +182 centimorgans of X DNA with Alice, consistent with a great granddaughter relationship. The top match golden cousins who shared 207 and 186 centimorgans with the woman in the well were first cousins two times removed to Alice. And the other two top matches the McPartlain sisters who shared 89 and 101 centimorgans with her were her third cousins. Alice was identified by the genealogists even though they weren't able to construct Alice's paternal tree. They knew who her father was, but were never able to link some unattached lower level matches to Thomas Burke because he had a very common surname and Irish birth records dating back to the 19th century are sparse. So who was Alice? Alice Burke was born in Nagauni, Michigan in September 1881 to Irish immigrant parents Thomas Burke and Bridget Golden. She had a sister and three brothers. Her father, Thomas Burke died circa 1890 and in 189110 year old Alice moved to Ashland, Wisconsin with her mom, brothers and sister. Tragically, her brother Christopher was killed in a train accident in 1895. As Alice grew older, she worked as a clerk in Ashland and then in 1900 she moved to the home of her grandmother where she was listed as a servant. Then she relocated to Duluth, Minnesota in 1902 with her mother and two brothers where Alice worked as a seamstress and clerk. On August 1, 1904, she married Edinburgh, Scotland native Charles Irvine Spence, who was born sometime around 1883 in Duluth. Their daughter Adela Eleanor Spence was born there in 1905. The small Spence family moved from St. Louis, Minnesota to Sutherland, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan in 1913. Charles sister lived there, which may have been the impetus for the relocation. Border crossing records put the date at July 29, 1913. Newspaper and local records revealed that Alice had an operation in Saskatoon city Hospital in 1915. Then on February 13, 1916 she gave birth to a baby girl who tragically died the same day. She was buried in a grave marked baby girl Spence. 30 year old Alice was documented in the June 1916 census as living with her husband, 38 year old Charles and their 10 year old daughter Idella in Saskatoon. That census is the last known record of her existence. A February 1918 article in the Saskatoon newspaper reflected that the home of Charles Spence of Sutherland burned down while the family was away from home. Nothing was saved. Idella was attending boarding school at this time. She had recently switched from the Sutherland School to St. Albans College and was accompanied there by her father. There was no mention of Alice at all in connection with either of these events. The 1921 census also does not mention Alice, reflecting that she was no longer in the Spence household. Charles reported himself married and living with his daughter idella and a 35 year old Scottish born woman named Helene Chataway and George Chataway, age 8. Charles died of a heart attack in 1923, leaving Idella an orphan. A newspaper piece about his death described him as a prosperous farmer who was in Sutherland to purchase a load of seed grain from the Quaker Oats Company. He was stricken while driving his load of wheat on 18th street toward his farm two miles outside town. Some passersby found him collapsed over his load and he was DOA at St. Paul's Hospital. His obituary listed him as a widower residing with his daughter, their housekeeper and the housekeeper's son. He was buried alongside baby girl Spence. There is no death record or gravesite for Alice and no mention of her after 1916. A press conference announcing the identification of Alice was held on September 29, 2025, an anniversary of sorts. The woman in the well was buried in an unmarked grave. In September 29, 2009, Saskatoon Police Chief Cameron McBride announced the identification and said as a constable who assisted immediately after Alice's remains were discovered, this is an especially satisfying outcome. End quote Alice's great granddaughter Cindy Camp came up to speak. I didn't think I would be this emotional, she said. She hadn't even known about Alice, cindy said. We first learned of alice's circumstances on July 16, when the genealogist and Toronto police were reached out. Cindy said she and her daughter were at their family's lake house when the phone call came. We were skeptical, she said, and they insisted on calling the police back to ensure the call was not a scam. But they learned that Alice's story was real and was finally coming to light, she said. The investigators asked Cindy for a DNA sample. She complied and learned that she is Alice's closest living relative, a great granddaughter. Her daughters Sarah and Lisa, and her granddaughter Bailey were with her at the press conference. We represent three generations of the family of Alice Burke Spence, cindy said. Cindy said she wished she knew more of her great grandmother. She said my grandmother Idella, who was Alice's daughter, never spoke about her family. She was orphaned at the age of 17 and like so many who have experienced such loss, she chose not to dwell on the past. But for decades, we had no idea of the incredible story that surrounded her mother Alice. Knowing what we know now, I wish I could talk with my grandmother even for an hour to hear her side of the story, cindy continued. Learning about Alice's life and how she'd been hidden from history for so long is both surreal and emotional from our family. And while this has been an emotional journey, we are so grateful to the many individuals who have worked tirelessly over the years to give the woman in the well her name back. She thanked the investigators who never gave up on identifying the woman in the well Today, as we stand here, we feel a deep sense of connection, not only to Alice, but to the generations of women who came before her, women whose stories deserve to be known. Cindy said that once the family was awarded an official death certificate for Alice, they planned to erect a headstone for her, one with her name on it. Now that we know we are genetic matches, it's important for her to have her place, Cindy later told CBC Canada. Detective Sergeant Darren Funk spoke next, discussing the collaborative effort required to solve the case. After two decades, he got visibly choked up. He said Alice was never forgotten about. And against what seemed like impossible odds, investigators persevered. And it paid off. IGG changed everything, he said Alice was given her name and her family was able to learn more about her. Sergeant Funk concluded by saying he always felt that Alice wanted to be found and identified. Now, she had her personal history, she had family. Alice Spence is not invisible anymore. Okay, so we now know who Alice was and the circumstances of her life, but what about her death? Investigators believe she was killed sometime after the 1916 census. So who killed Alice? Cut her arm off, wrapped her in burlap, stuffed her into a barrel and hauled the whole thing to an old well and tipped it down? It sounds to me like someone who knew her and. And needed to make her disappear so as not to be found and linked to him. As I said, the Saskatoon police consider Alice's case to be a homicide, but they won't publicly share theories about who might have killed her. Sergeant Darren Funk said at the press conference. We have circumstantial evidence. We believe we know who did it, but it's 100 years old. That person does not have the right to defend themselves in court. Today we're going to consider the case closed. Well, how very Canadian. I'm American, and I feel very comfortable speculating. When Alice vanished, who would fail to report her missing? Whoever killed her. And whoever killed her was someone who knew her and wanted to hide all evidence of her murder, including his own pieces of clothing, for some reason. Now, of course, it's possible that Alice had left her husband on her own, run off with another man, or went into a tailspin after the death of her daughter on the day she was born in 1916. And her death had nothing to do with Charles, and he didn't report it just because she'd abandoned him. But Alice was found just a block from where she lived with her husband. He would have known where that well was. I asked Detective Sergeant Funk the next obvious question. Have they retained the man's Vest and pants encased with Alice's body in the adipocere so that they could be tested for DNA. The answer was no. The items were destroyed in 2012, deemed to be a biohazard. Whether the fire that destroyed the Spence family home in February 1918 was related to Alice's murder is unknown. It's always possible that the fire was set to destroy evidence. Perhaps a large amount of blood from a murder and a partial dismemberment in that case. That would mean that Alice was alive until 1918 and her murder was what precipitated the fire. It's possible, of course, that the fire was a coincidence and Alice was already dead. And in the well, we will never know. Another interesting point to contemplate is why whoever killed Alice, which I'm flat out postulating was likely her husband, either with or without an accomplice, place her in a barrel before dumping her down the well. A barrel would be bulky, would be much more likely to get stuck, and would be much more unwieldy than the body of a woman who we know was only about 5 foot 1. Why not just place Alice in the well as is? Well, I think the answer is that her body had to be transported to the well somehow and whoever was lugging her did not want to risk her being seen in his wagon or cart. But no one would question a farmer transporting a barrel. I would really love to know what Charles told his and Alice's daughter Idella about where her mom went. Idella was orphaned in 1923 when Charles died of a heart attack. She got married in 1925 and her wedding announcement reported that she was the daughter of the late Mr. And Mrs. Charles Irvine Spence of Sutherland. So it was public knowledge that Alice was deceased. Who told everyone that? I also want to know who the father of eight year old George Chataway was. In 1921, George was living with his mother, Helene Chataway, and Charles Spence. According to that year's census, eight year old George would have been conceived in 1913, the year that Charles, Alice and Idella moved to Saskatoon. When I spoke with Saskatoon Police Service Detective Sergeant Funk, we discussed the theory that Charles Spence killed his wife Alice and put her down the well. Sergeant Funk acknowledged that that is the top theory the police are going on. If that was the case, then Alice met her end at the hands of the man she shared a child with, had been married to for more than a decade and should have been safe with. At least Charles did not get to live a long and happy life. Dying suddenly at around age 40. In happy news, Adela was married for 69 years before passing away in 1995 at age 89. Her uncle A.H. hansen, the husband of her father's sister, gave her away at St. John's Cathedral in Saskatoon. The case of Alice Burke Spence is believed to be the oldest investigation in Canada to be solved by with the assistance of igg, Saskatoon Police have not been able to definitively identify a photograph of Alice. Apparently there were two Alice Spences living in the area at the time, and while a photograph exists, it's unclear which of them it captured. Thank you so much to Saskatoon Police Service Detective Sergeant Darren Funk for speaking with me about this case. Thanks for listening to this episode of dnaid. Before you leave, please let me tell you about some important things related to the show. If you'd like to support this podcast and in the process get access to early and ad free episodes as well as bonus content like crime scene photos, you can sign up for a Patreon subscription for only $5 a month by heading over to patreon.com dnaid of course you're welcome to contribute more than $5 a month. We rely on Patreon funds to pay for the original source materials I use to research each episode. If Patreon isn't your thing, you can also show your support with an ABJAC Insider subscription through Apple Podcasts. It costs just $4.99 a month or $49.99 a year. Your Abjak Insider subscription will give you the same benefits for not only DNA ID but for all of the shows on the ABJ Network like Killer Communications and Campus Killings. Head over to Apple Podcast and find the DNAID page or look for the ABJAC Network to get started. If you're on social media, we'd love to interact with you there. DNAID is on every major social media platform. Search your favorite platforms for DNAID Podcasts to find us. We also have a YouTube channel and our website is DNAID podcast.com you can find links to all of these anytime in our show Notes. If you need to read the show, contact us by emailing dnaid podcastmail.com finally, if you want to pick up some fun DNAID merch and represent the show, visit the store at www.customizedgirl.com s DNAIDpodcast. DNAID is researched, written and hosted by me, Jessica Bettencourt. It's produced by me and Mike Morford of Abjack Entertainment Music by Connor Bettencourt.