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Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.
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hi, I'm Megan McCardell and I'm here to help. I'm the host of a new show from Washington Post Opinion called Reasonably Optimistic and it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling America right now. Every Wednesday I'm going to talk to people who see a path forward.
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It does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together to solve problems where they are.
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You know, I am a believer in
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America and that's worth fighting for.
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Join me Wednesdays on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Okay, skipping ahead seven years the Wisconsin Department of Justice established a cold crimes unit in January of 1998. The Attorney General's office staffed it with DCI agents paired with FBI agents working with local agencies on old, unresolved cases. And one of the first cases they closed was that of Sandra License, thanks to a phone call from a prison in Oshkosh. All this from a criminal complaint filed in Brown county in 1999. In 1998, a man named David Binz was in prison for the sexual assault of a young girl. Two years earlier, he had pled no contest to a charge of sexual assault of a child under the age of 16 and was sentenced to 10 years. On October 4, 1998, a detective Lind at the Green Bay Police Department received a call from an officer at the Oshkosh Correctional Institution where David Binz was housed. He said that an inmate claimed to have some information on the Sandra Lyson homicide. The inmate was named Gary Swendby. Green Bay detectives Robert Hagland and Joe Kaminsky interviewed Gary on April 13, 1998. Gary had shared a cell at Oshkosh with David Binz for about a month. Gary said that in his sleep David started screaming and appeared to wake up. While awake, he continued to scream, bob, Bob, kill her. Make sure she's dead. Make sure she's Dead, so she can't tell. The next morning, Gary said to David, dude, you have some really bad dreams. David responded that he'd been having them ever since the killing. Gary said, what killing? And David said, ever since the bitch ripped me off. He then mentioned some beer that she had sold them, but he didn't specify who she or them was. He said they were going to go back and get the money she owed them and they decided to rob her. He said they got $2,000 off of her, she put up a struggle, so they killed her. He said he kept telling Bob to make sure she was dead, and then they put her in the trunk of the car. Quote, Binz then laughed and told Swenby that the police were looking for a station wagon with wood paneling which had been taken to Illinois and crushed in a scrapyard. End quote. Gary Swenby asked David if they really did this murder. David's reply was, hell, yeah. My brother Bob even killed a guy in Green Bay and threw him on the tracks. Gary asked David if it was the Crawford girl that got killed. He said he just made up a name to see if David would cop to anything. David responded, no, it was Sandy Lyson. David continued to spill that he wasn't really afraid he and Robert would get caught because nobody saw them, the car was destroyed, and they didn't leave any prints. He said they shouldn't have killed her, but they didn't have a choice because she knew them really well. After a month of sharing a cell with David, Gary asked to be moved because David continued to talk and scream. Gary indicated that David would talk about how sorry he was for what he'd done. And then he would turn around and ask if Gary wanted anybody killed out there because he and his brother would do it. Gary stated that David said the name of the bar that was robbed was the Good Times. Well, well, well. It seemed that this guy, David Binz, knew an awful lot about the murder of Sandra Layson. And if you listened closely earlier in the episode, you heard the name David Binz and that he had a very negative interaction with Sandra on the night she died. This was all the cold case investigators on Sandra's case needed to hear. They started to gather information on this David Vince Page, and learned that he had talked to a number of people in prison all about the Lyson case. Wisconsin DCI Cold Case Special Agent Richard Lewell and Special Agent Gregory Eggam interviewed inmate Todd Tantillo in the Dane County Jail. He'd recently been released from the Wisconsin prison system, where he had been a cellmate of David Binz. He said David would have frequent nightmares and scream out in his sleep. He said things like hit her, hold her. He said in the morning he would always ask, but David would tell him he he was dreaming about stuff he didn't want to talk about. When Tantillo continued to push, asking questions about what appeared to be dreams about holding down and beating a struggling woman. David eventually told him his nightmares were about a bar that he had robbed with his brother in Green Bay. There was some sort of confrontation in the bar, and Tantillo got the impression that David had been kicked out of the bar or something aggravated him at the bar. Quote, Binz told Tantillo that he and his brother had gone back to the bar for vengeance. He went back to the bar for payback. David told Tantillo he didn't want to seek psychological counseling for his nightmares because he was afraid the authorities would find out about the robbery and he would have to spend the rest of his life in jail. Tantillo said David told him he used the money obtained from the robbery to buy equipment for his car salvaging business. Tantilo also said that the nightmares tended to occur when David did not take his medication. The investigators confirmed that David had told Tantillo this stuff by finding another inmate who said Tantilo had told him all about it. Green Bay detective Joe Kaminsky interviewed Charles McMillan on April 13, 1998. McMillan confirmed that Tantalo had told him that David said things in his sleep like I told you to kill that bitch. When McMillan brought this up with David, David asked him about the statute of limitations, but would not tell him what crime he'd committed. They had enough to justify a sit down with David Binz. On April 16, 1998, Special Agent Lewell and Detective Hagland used a security office at Oshkosh Prison to interview David for more than six hours. He was read his Miranda rights and questioned about the Sandra Lyson murder. After he agreed to speak with the officers, he admitted that he sometimes screamed out in his sleep while having nightmares, but he didn't recall what he was screaming, although he knew that during one bad dream he had shouted out something like kill the bitch. He said he was referring to his former girlfriend, Mary when he shouted about killing her. As an aside, Mary was the mother of the girl David had been convicted of sexually assaulting, and she had been instrumental in bringing about the charges that got him locked up. The detectives asked David whether the jailhouse informants, Tantillo and Swenby had it out for him. David said that neither of them had a beef against him and that they would not lie in order to get him in trouble. He also said that neither Tantillo nor Swenby was from Green Bay. Neither would have reason to know anything about the Sandra Lyson murder. He admitted he may have said something to his cellmates about his screams. David was then asked about the statement he gave in the initial canvas back in August 1987. He'd been a resident of the home, canvassed by Officer Tochterman because there were Miller beer cans all over the yard. Now, David told them the same thing he said in the statement. He had driven his brother and Vince a to the good times so they wouldn't have to carry the case of beer back to the house. He waited outside while they went inside to buy the beer and a pack of cigarettes. He got angry about the $14 charge for the beer and called the bar and said he was going to come back to the bar and blow it up. But he denied ever actually returning to the bar. But then David did say something that sort of incriminated him. Quote, he stated that Robert had told him that Robert and Vince had put the body of Sandra Lyson into the trunk of Robert's vehicle. Of course, this made no sense since David said he was the one who drove to the bar. But a lot of what David said made no sense. Quote, David was asked if his blood and therefore DNA would be on the body of Lyson. He stated that it would not. He stated that he was never in the bar on the night of the Lyson disappearance and they had never even saw her on the night of the disappearance. He asked if his DNA could be transferred to Sandra Lyson from a beer can. He explained that she had given him beer that night, end quote. After hearing all of this, the investigators basically told David that they didn't believe that he was uninvolved in Sandra's murder. They then read Gary Swenby's statement to him word for word. All the stuff about they went back to the bar to get vengeance and so on. And they asked if Gary's statement about what David had told him was true and correct. David said it was. Quote, when asked if he was present when Sandra was killed, he responded by stating, I wasn't there. I didn't kill anyone. However, he again stated that Gary's statement was true, end quote. Well, the investigators told him he couldn't have it both ways. All of Gary's information could not be true. And at the same time, David not be involved at this time. David began to cry and visibly sweat. He kept wiping his wet palms on his hands. The investigators pressed him to tell them what happened. At first he didn't say anything, but then he finally responded that he didn't want to spend the rest of his life in jail. He asked, if he told the investigators what happened, would he have to spend the rest of his life in jail? And they asked him again what happened, and he said he didn't know. Again, they pushed him to tell them what happened. He pointed to Gary Swenby's statement and said, that's what I said. That's what I did. You got it right there. What more do you need? The police said they wanted details. And he said, quote, you have what happened right there in black and white. You don't need any more. They asked him if his brother Robert had struck Sandra. He responded, quote, if I tell you that he hit her, are you going to arrest him? They said, yes, if he was implicated, he would have to be arrested. David, continuing to cry, said, I don't know if he did anything. They asked him if he knew how Sandra had died, and he said he didn't. They then asked him how she'd been struck, and he said she'd been hit in the stomach and then hit on the head. He was asked if anything else had been done to her, and he said she'd been strangled. When the detectives attempted to ask more specific questions, he just repeated, I was at home. I was at home. But every time they asked him whether Gary Swenby's statement was true and correct, he said it was. It really made no sense. David became increasingly distressed. They gave him water breaks and bathroom breaks and offered him food. But he continued to cry, saying he couldn't sleep because of the nightmares and his stomach was burning up and eating him up. Quote. Detective haglund asked David if the investigators would bring in a jury of 12 inmates and read them Gary's statement, would they find David guilty? He responded by saying, yes, end quote. He then asked, if he answered specific questions about Sandra's death, would he have to spend more time in jail? And they said, yes, probably. And he said, again, well, I was at home. According to the criminal complaint, late in the interview, David said that he went back to the bar that night to rob Sandra, but he did not kill her. And with that, the interview ended. They found more informants. On August 29, 1988, Special Agent Lowell and special agent Eggam traveled to Oshkosh Correctional Institution to interview Ralph Thomas Wolfe. Wolf had known David since December 16, 1997, when they were placed in the same housing unit at the prison. Sometime in early 1998, they were playing dominoes and talking about the types of crimes they had committed that got them sent to prison. Per the complaint, quote, Wolf told Binz that he had robbed a tavern. Then David confessed to Wolf that he and his brother had robbed a tavern in Green Bay and they killed the bartender. He said they got a couple of grand out of the robbery. He said it happened a number of years earlier. Next, Special Agent Lewell interviewed Thomas B. Another former cellmate of David. He said that during the summer of 1997, they were in the same segregation unit. And David told them that the Green Bay Police Department was so stupid and that they had questioned David and his brother back in 87, but let them go. After the damaging interview with David, Detective Hagland repeatedly tried to interview his brother Robert Binz, but Robert would never open the door. They told him through the door that his brother David had told them that Robert had been the one who killed Sandra. Detectives were able to find some people who would testify to incriminating things that Robert Binz had told them. A jailhouse informant, whose name is redacted in my files, said Robert told him he and his brother did it and got away with it. Ronald W. Who knew Robert very well for years, said Robert had made repeated but vague statements like his brother did it, he was there, but didn't kill her. A woman named Catherine O. Gave a statement that in about 1998, Robert told her that he and his brother David killed a girl in a bar because she overcharged them for beer. Catherine was scared of Robert and believed him. Finally, Joan A. Recalled driving in a car with Robert and her boyfriend Ron, and they drove past the forest where Sandra was found. Robert started shaking, and Ron said, bobby, you really did kill that girl. And Robert did not deny it. Joan remembered another time Robert told her he was a passenger in David's car and there was a woman in the backseat. David told him she was dead, but she moved, so he strangled her. Ron told Detective Hagland that he asked Robert one time did he kill the barmaid, and Robert said, maybe I did and maybe I didn't. It's pretty clear to me upon reading the reports, that Detective Haglund and DCI Special Agent Lowell very much believed that David Binz had said all those incriminating things to other inmates. And when they questioned him, he did little to assuage their beliefs. In his guilt, his denials were weak and inconsistent. And to the contrary, his statements to many people and the detectives about Sandra's murder were detailed and convincing. And Robert had not helped the brothers cause David Binz had had a hand in Sandra's death and Robert helped him. The district attorney felt the same way. The investigators started trying to find additional proof that the Binz brothers had indeed murdered Sandra. They tracked down and interviewed Barbara Kay, who was at the time David's live in girlfriend. And at the Maple street house in Green Bay. She had a lot of recall about the night Sandra was killed and who was partying at her and David's house. She remembered that David was really mad because the Good Times bartender had overcharged him and he called the bar. She said she went to bed around one and she was very drunk. So she didn't know if and when David had come to bed that night. Not exactly an alibi. The police started collecting blood samples from David and Robert Vince and Robert's buddy Vince protesting against the semen and blood found on Sandra's dress. Now is a good time to state that investigators had always believed, based on the semen on Sandra's clothing and the disarray of her dress and underwear, that she had been raped by her killer. Semen had been found on the lower left bottom of her dress, on her underwear and in her upper vagina. Sandra's dress and shoes both had blood contact and impact spatter on them. On the dress, it was concentrated in the neck area and under the right arm and extended down to the lower left of the dress front. Sandra's right shoe had blood drops and stains on it. Both shoes had diluted blood stains on the toes. In 1987, the Wisconsin State crime Lab had checked the blood spatter on the dress for blood typing. 37 different spots had been cut out of the dress by the crime lab for blood analysis. All the blood was type A Sandra's except for one spot labeled H5 that contained blood from a type A donor and and blood from an unidentified type B donor. There was no other B blood on the dress. But this was indicative that someone with type B blood had possibly dripped blood on a blood stain of Sandra's blood. In the late 1990s, the crime lab attempted RFLP testing of the type B blood but determined the sample was too degraded after being stored at room temperature for 10 years. This language is from a later motion for a new trial. Quote. In 1998, the State Crime lab tested semen that was found on Sandra's dress. On underwear and vaginal swabs. Analysis of the DNA profiles indicated that the same person contributed all three samples. The testing conclusively excluded both David and Robert Binz as the source of the semen. However, the crime lab was not able to obtain a DNA profile from the H5 bloodstain during the 1998 testing. So the H5 bloodstain was sent to a private lab, Cellmark, for further DNA analysis. End quote. Well, per Cellmark's report dated January 30, 1999, the lab was able to identify both male and female DNA in the bloodstain. In a phone conversation with Detective Haglund, Glenn hall of Celmark stated that the source was so faint that he would not be able to do a match even if he had a known source of DNA to match it to. As a result, no comparison was made to the semen profile. Neither Robert nor David Binz had type B blood. But because no results were obtained from the bloodstain, the they were not officially excluded. The Green Bay investigators presented the evidence against the Binz brothers to the Brown County DA's office, and the DA decided to proceed with charges. On July 30, 1999, an arrest warrant was issued for Robert and David Binz for first degree murder. They weren't charged with sexual assault since they had been excluded as the contributors of the semen found on Sandra. David was easy to arrest since he was already in prison, but Laubert had consistently refused to talk to the investigators. So Detective Haglund and Special Agent Lewell went to Robert's apartment and arranged with the apartment manager to use a ruse to get him to open the door. When he did, they said they wanted to talk to him, and he immediately said his brother was lying about what happened. They cuffed him and told him they were arresting him for the murder of Sandra Layson. They took Robert down to the station and read him his rights. They uncuffed him and gave him some water, coffee, and cigarettes. He repeatedly said he didn't do anything and his brother was lying. He said, dave is saying this so we'll be in prison together. They talked about the night of the murder. Robert remembered hanging out at David's house on Maple street that Sunday night with Vince, and he thought David's girlfriend Barbara might have been there too. He said that after drinking, he and Vince went home and went to bed. He slept in his bed and Vince slept on the couch. When the detectives pressed him about the whole episode with David calling the bar, he said, yes, David was very angry because he felt they paid too much for the beer. So he called the bar and said he was going to blow it up. David talked about going to the bar to get his money back. Robert said that David then left the house by himself. He heard the car start and saw Dave driving down the alley in the direction of the bar. He stayed with Vince and drank the beer until it was gone. And then they left. David had not returned. But then after just minutes, Robert changed his story. Now, he said that David had talked a lot about going to the bar to get his money, but he hadn't actually left by the time Robert and Vince went home. In a third iteration of the story, Robert said David said he was going to get his money back and he left the house. Robert heard the car start. Robert then told Barbara he and Vince were going home and they left. So of course, the investigators wanted to know if David had access to a small red car or a big two tone wood grain station wagon in 1987. Robert said he had no idea what kind of car David was driving at the time. Quote, we told him that Dave said that Robert was with him when he robbed the bar and that Robert had been the one that killed Sandra. Robert said Dave was lying, he was home in bed, end quote. The investigators then asked Robert what he knew about Sandra's murder. And he said he read in the paper that she was strangled and she had leaves in her underwear. Then Robert said that his brother told him he wasn't going down on this alone and he was taking others down with him. He said he and David did not get along. The detectives felt he was lying about this as they generally hung out together. They asked him, why would your brother do that to you? And Robert gave an example of when David dragged him down for a robbery and he spent time in prison for it. I asked Robert if he did the robbery and he said yes. The detectives notes say he said it was David's idea and Dave gave him the gun to do the robbery. And Dave waited in the car. They both went to prison for that. So David had set Robert up to rob a business and didn't actually do it himself. While hearing this, Detective Haglin suggested that David maybe also told Robert to rob and kill Sandra and he did his brother's bidding. Robert maintained again that he was at home A very short time later. He said, I'm not speaking anymore until I see an attorney. The conversation after that was short. Robert briefly changed his mind and said that he was okay talking without an attorney. Detective Hagland re entered the room and told him again that his brother David had accused him of robbing the bar with David and that Rob had actually killed Sandra. At this, Robert started crying and he abruptly stopped crying and started talking about the Packers. While that entered the interview, Robert was transported to jail for processing and held without bail. A few days later, on August 2nd, Detective Hagland and Detective Crabb asked Robert if he would be willing to speak with him again and he said yes. They read his rights to him again and he. And they gave him coffee and cigarettes and asked him if there would be any reason they would find his prints on Sandra's purse or the contents. He said, I don't know. They told him where the purse was found and he said, I used to cut the grass out there. I go out there quite a bit. They told him they sent Sandra's purse to the Secret Service to find prints on it and they had found some. They said they'd found a palm print or two overlapping fingerprints on Sandra's ID card. Detective Haglin's notes say Bob immediately started to shake violently. The detective asked him why his brother David would blame him for killing Sandra if he were innocent. He said, I don't know. They then asked him four final questions. Was he in the bar with his brother Dave that night that Sandra was killed? No. Did he kill Sandra? No. Did he help kill Sandra? No. Did he help get rid of the body? No. You guys know I've long been an enthusiast for Masterclass. 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the news been getting you down? I'm Megan McCardell and I'm here to help. I'm the host of a new show from Washington Post Opinion called Reasonably Optimistic and it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling America right now. Every Wednesday I'm going to talk to people who see a path forward.
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It does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together to solve problems where they are.
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You know, I am a believer in America and that's worth fighting for.
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Join me Wednesdays on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.
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The criminal complaint filed by Brown County Assistant District Attorney John Zakowski cited the statement of Duke Jocelyn that Sandra had told him the man who called the bar on the night she was killed had called to complain about the beer price and threatened her and to blow the place away. It also cited the original statement given by David to Inspector Alexander on August 4, 1987, in which David admitted that he was kind of pissed and called the bar. He said he was pretty well under and it was possible he may have said something about blowing up the place. The state's case against the Binz brothers was predicated on the David Binz air quote, sleep confessions and the statements of the other inmates as to his confessions to them. The prosecution's theory of the case was that David and Robert killed Sandra in connection with a robbery attempt at closing time. They shoved her in the trunk and drove her out to the forest where they either walked her into the woods and killed her or deposited her already dead body. They had other circumstantial evidence besides just the statements of David and the informants. David did not have an alibi for the time frame of Sunday night, August two to three from 1:45am on. Remember, in his initial statement, he said he was passed out on the couch. Secondly, the investigators discovered that the brothers, David in particular, had often visited a junkyard very, very close to where Sandra was found. And they also scrapped in the area where the purse was found. Third, David had done prison time for armed robbery. And it also did not look good that he was incarcerated for sexual abuse of a child. Fourth, both David and Robert were regulars at the Good Times bar. And David was known as Crazy Dave to the bartenders, owners and other patrons. Okay, so you can see how all that evidence, whether rock solid or not, could possibly sway a jury that the Binz brothers were guilty. David had made statements to a number of inmates that made it sound like he and his brother were the ones who killed Sandra. He had motive. He had called in a threat to the bar and cursed Sandra out on the very night she was abducted and killed. He had no alibi. His and his brother's stories were all over the place. And he had connections to all three geographic locations involved in the crime. But. And this is a but big enough even for Sir Mixalot. The DNA from the semen on Sandra's dress did not match either David or Robert. Further, Cellmark labs had been unable to obtain a sufficient DNA profile from the type B blood on the dress to match it to anyone. But neither Bin's brother had type B blood. Detective Hagland acknowledged in a letter to the U.S. secret Service in 1999, quote, There is no physical evidence to link in either suspect to the case, end quote. The letter accompanied Sandra's purse being submitted for special fingerprinting methodologies in an attempt to find the prints of either Robert or David, which failed. Robert requested to speak with the detectives again on August 4th. Detective Zettel spoke to him and Robert said he read the complaint and David was lying. He said, I can't believe my brother is putting this on me. He maintained that he and Vince went to the bar to get beer and that's it. David was the one who was mad about the price of the beer and called the bar and threatened to blow it up. Robert went on saying that Dave is crazy and had tried to kill him by pushing him off a cliff. Once Robert requested another audience for Detective Haglund in September of 1999. This one went pretty much the same way as before, with the detective questioning Robert about indiscrepancies in his story and him saying he didn't know he went home and went to bed. Detective Hagland noted that Robert was sweating during this meeting. On October 6th, the detectives interviewed Vince A. He was adamant that after they finished drinking at Dave's place on that Saturday night, he and Robert walked home. He remembered that he slept on the couch. This is from Detective Haglund's notes about the interview. Quote, we asked him if Bob left that night or if he stayed home. And he thought about it and said, there's a strong possibility that Bob may have left after he fell asleep. So Robert did not have an alibi either. At the announcement that police finally had suspects in custody on the Sandra Lyson case, Sandra's brother David McAllister, said he was glad for the closure, but the news didn't bring his sister back. He told the Wisconsin State Journal that Sandra's murder had been very difficult for her family. He said their mother had had a nervous breakdown of Kathy and Tiffany. He said it was traumatic for them. They lost a mom, their house, their friends and surroundings. They lost everything. The Binz brothers both retained attorneys and both pleaded not guilty. They were initially treated as a unit. Just one probable cause hearing was held for both of them, and the judge initially decided to allow the state to try them together. But then the trials were severed because the state wanted David to testify against Robert. Attorneys for both men filed various motions to suppress statements they had made to others, including David's sleep talk statements. But those motions were all denied. David's trial commenced first in the late spring of 2000. Harland Joslin, aka Duke, testified about Sandra answering the phone at the bar and the slamming it down after a short exchange with the caller and what she told him about the caller's threats. Officer Torman testified that back in 87 he had taken a statement from David Binz, who admitted calling the bar and making threats and being drunk and angry. The state then called six jailhouse informants. Gary Swenby testified that David screamed, killed a bitch in his sleep. Charles McMillan testified to the same four men in total. Swenby, Ralph Wolf, Joseph Coppersmith, and Sean Lavock testified that David told them he'd killed someone. Coppersmith, who had shared a cell with David for two years, said the two were watching America's Most Wanted and a case came on of a woman killed in a bar and David said something along the lines of he did something like that. Gary Swenby testified that David told him specifically that he had killed Sandra Lassen. Ralph Wolf and Joseph Coppersmith said David told them he had killed a bartender. A Jeffrey Woodworth testified that David had said he and his brother robbed a tavern because they. They felt ripped off over the price of beer and they went back at closing time and beat up the bartender. The state also argued that details included in the statements of some of the jailhouse informants were not public information as proof of their veracity. This was disputed by the defense, and the defense did their best to cast reasonable doubt. The state could not avoid the jury hearing evidence from the defense that the semen found on Sandra's dress did not match David Bentz. Curtis Knox, a DNA analyst at the Wisconsin State Crime Lab, testified that he found semen on Sandra's dress and underwear and obtained a male DNA profile that excluded David and Robert Bince and Vince A. Knox said he obtained a consistent profile from Sandra's vaginal swabs. Asked what would be the longest period of time that sperm would be found in a human vagina after intercourse, Knox said, the rule of thumb that is put out in literature as well as what we've seen in the lab is the outside window. We would expect to find semen still in the vaginal Vault is approximately 72 hours. Asked if it was possible that Sandra had sexual intercourse 24 hours or longer prior to her death, Knox said, that is a possibility, yes. This set up the state to successfully argue that the semen must have originated from a prior consensual sexual encounter between Sandra and an unknown male and had nothing to do with the murder. This despite the fact that since the very inception of the crime, based on the evidence, the Green Bay Police had treated Sandra's murder as a sexual assault homicide. A write up of the case by one of the original investigators, Inspector Cletus Alexander, says the autopsy and crime scene showed signs of sexual activity. End quote. But the state introduced evidence that Sandra had an iud. While they weren't able to produce the name of any specific boyfriend or lover who might have been the donor of the semen, the existence of the IUD suggested that she was sexually active with someone emitting sperm. The analyst also testified that the lab was unable to extract DNA from the bloodstain on Sandra's dress, but that bloodstain had been typed as B, which the Binz brothers were not. David Binz's attorney told the jury all about the physical evidence clearing his client. The semen and blood on Sandra had not come from David. Further, the condition of Sandra's body with her nylons off, underwear partially removed and dress mostly unbuttoned, along with the leaves and dirt in her underwear and pieces of grass in her pubic hair, the strongly Indicated that she had been sexually assaulted in the woods and then murdered. David was not the source of the bloodstain or semen, meaning he couldn't be the killer. And because his brother and Vince were not the sources either, he contended he couldn't have even been a party to the crime. The state countered that the autopsy revealed no indication of forced intercourse. And did not conclude that a sexual assault occurred. They needed to remove the sexual assault from the equation in order to still point the finger at the Vinces. Pathologist Darryl Scarpel testified for the state that during Sandra's autopsy he observed numerous portions of sperm and several intact sperm. Dr. Scarpel testified that the semen had likely, with 75% probability, been deposited within 24 hours of Sandra's death. And he could not tell one way or the other whether the sexual intercourse had been forced or unforced. The pathologist told the jury his post mortem examination revealed wounds that could be consistent with Sandra's body having been dragged. And the state argued that being dragged could account for the dirt and leaves in her underwear. The state also contended the degraded condition of the bloodstain on her dress indicated it predated and was therefore unrelated to her murder. The state called Detective Hagland as its final witness to talk about the interview with David Binz. In which he said everything in Gary Swenby's statement was true. And as the prosecutor pointed out, never once said Gary Swanby was a liar or that he was mistaken. To the contrary, David had told the detective everything the cellmate related was good as gold. In the state's closing remarks to the jury, Brown County Assistant Attorney Lawrence Lacey argued that, frankly, I don't know what the purpose of the argument is to begin with. Because it's clear that this was not a sexual assault. And whoever the donor was of those spermatozoa is not involved in this murder. There is no evidence to support that. Lesie said the source of the semen on Sander was irrelevant. Quote, her personal life is not on trial here. The evidence from the beginning shows this is a robbery and not a sexual assault. And the person with motive is right there. He said, pointing at David in her opening statements. David's defense attorney, Nyla Robinson, had told the jury that the jailhouse snitches were lying and couldn't be relied on. The defense introduced several witnesses, including Duke Jocelyn, to testify that the unidentified flannel plaid shirt wearing man at the bar at closing time was not David Vince. They pointed out the state was not able to produce Anyone who saw David at the bar that night. The defense also presented evidence that David was mentally challenged. Dr. Steven Kaplan, a psychologist who had assessed the defendant, testified that he was, quote, mildly mentally retarded and that he functioned at or below 98% of the population at about a fourth grade level. In addition, he suffered from an anxiety disorder that resulted in him having a, quote, strong negative emotional reaction to stress. Therefore, he was extremely suggestible and more susceptible to the influence of stress in an interrogation environment, end quote. This was intended to explain the self incriminating statements that David made during the six hour interrogation by the Green Bay police. The defense also got Dr. Kaplan to say that dreams aren't necessarily linked to reality and and presented evidence that if David indeed made those statements, he might have been talking about wanting to kill a former girlfriend. In her closing arguments, David's attorney told the jury there was no evidence at all linking her client to the body or the purse. The only evidence the state had were the statements of jailmates and police. She told the jury that the seminal fluid not matching David could not be ignored and that the state, quote, would like you to disregard the possibility of sexual assault because it doesn't fit with the binses, end quote. She said that while Sandra's murder was a tragedy, it's also a tragedy to convict an innocent man. The jury deliberated for four hours. On May 12, 2000, David was convicted of being a party to first degree murder. He showed no emotion. Kathy Lyson, now well into adulthood, addressed the court saying thank you to the jury, police and prosecutors for rendering what we believe to be justice. David was sentenced to life with the possibility of parole after 13 years as required by the law in effect in 1987. Robert's trial was next. In July, Robert moved for a bench trial, saying he wanted his trier of fact to be governed by facts, not a motion. No doubt in hopes that a judge would not be swayed, as his brother's jury had been about the veracity of statements made by jailhouse informants. The request was granted. The case would be tried by Judge Zuuldmlder, the same man who had presided over David's trial. That seems like a conflict to me since the judge would have heard all the evidence in David's trial. But the trial proceeded before Judge Zuldmulder. David was called as a state witness against his brother, but pleaded the fifth amendment on the stand. Gary Swinby could not take the stand in Robert's trial to testify to the statements David had made about his and Robert's guilt because he had been killed in a car crash between the two trials. The state wanted to introduce his testimony anyway. This is confusing, so I'm quoting directly from the appeals court. Ruling, quote, over Robert's objection, the court admitted Swenby's testimony. From David's trial. And the brother's preliminary hearing. The court also allowed Detective Pampering. To testify about David's 1987 statement. In which he admitted he was angry and threatened to blow up the bar. Because David invoked his Fifth Amendment privilege against testifying. The court found him unavailable and and admitted his statements to Swenby and Pampering. As statements against interest. In addition, the court determined Swenby had become unavailable by his death. And admitted his prior testimony, end quote. Judge Zuidmolder allowed the statements. Reasoning that the police, detectives, prison guard witnesses, and other jailhouse informants. Were available for cross examination. Negating hearsay concerns. So Gary Swenby's testimony at David's trial. Was read into the record at Robert's trial. All this was under the vociferous objection of Robert's attorney. Who said, this is a fundamental denial. Of Robert's right to confront his accuser. Todd Tantillo testified that David told him he and his brother. Had robbed a Green Bay tavern. And gotten a couple grand they used to start an auto salvage business. He also testified that David had nightmares. And would be on his knees punching his pillow, screaming, hold her. Hold her. I'm trying to kill her. On cross examination, though, he said David never mentioned the brothers actually killing anyone. And he never asked what the dreams were about. Joan A. Testified about Robert telling her that he and his brother drove north. Looking for a place to dump Sandra's body. And when he noticed she was moving in the back, he strangled her. Further, she testified that Robert had taken her to the Mashakani Forest. To cut down a Christmas tree. And quote, bob was twitching really bad when we got past there. The defense attorney pointed out that Robert suffered from Tourette's syndrome. Which involves involuntary muscular movements. Vince A. Was called by the defense and testified that he and Robert were home in bed. When Sandra was abducted from the bar. But under cross, he admitted he would not necessarily have known. If Robert left the apartment. Finally, Robert took the stand and said, I'm not taking the blame for something I didn't do. He acknowledged that they had gone to the bar that night. To buy beer and cigarettes. He said he didn't feel they were overcharged. But his brother David got a little wild. David called the bar and threatened to blow it up. But Roberts said he and Vince went home and went to bed. He denied making incriminating statements to Joan A. During the road trip, saying, quote, I never said anything like that. Robert's attorney, Daniel Fay, asked his client directly, what, if any, involvement did you have in the death of Sandra Lyson? I didn't have nothing to do with it, Robert testified. But the prosecutor suggested that Robert was his brother's pawn, saying, dave told you what to do and you followed his direction and he told you to take care of Sandy Lyson. It didn't take long. On July 26, 2000, Judge Zuuldmlder found Robert guilty of being a party to first degree murder. 21 year old Tiffany Lyson, only 8 when her mom was killed, addressed Robert at the sentencing. She said, my mom is dead and it's your fault. She spoke to the court about her mother not being just a bartender, but a friend, cousin, niece, sister, mother and daughter. Her mother taught them to ride bikes and take dance music and swim lessons. She continued, she bought us candy bars from the bar. She would sing to me to sleep with her voice. She won't be there when I get married. She won't be there to hold her granddaughter or grandson. Robert showed no emotion. He was sentenced to life like his brother, with the possibility of parole after 13 years. His attorney, Robert Fay, said he'd appeal because the trial relied on hearsay and uncorroborated evidence from jailhouse informants. Brown County ADA John Zukowski told the media, I'm glad their ordeal is over, referring to the Lyson family. David Binz appealed his conviction, arguing that the court erred in admitting his sleep talk evidence and also arguing that his statements to investigators were coerced. His appeal was denied in 2001. The court's ruling stated, among other things, quote, there was overwhelming evidence of Binz's guilt. Binz told Swenby that both he and his brother killed her and put her in the trunk of a car. They took her body up to the woods somewhere and up north and dumped her. Binz further told Swembee that they destroyed the vehicle afterward and that he kept telling Robert to make sure she was dead. Binz made similar incriminating statements to Haglund and four other inmates. Binz and Hagland went through Swenby's statement line by line, and Binz confirmed to Haglin that it was true and correct and he did not need to give the officers a statement because everything was in Swenby's in black and white, end quote. Then the appeals Court addressed David's contention that the statements to police he had made were coerced. Quote the trial court found that the circumstances surrounding Binz's statement to Hagland and Lowell evinced no coercive or improper police conduct. Hagland and Newell were unarmed and in civilian clothing. The officers questioned Binz in a large, well furnished briefing room. They advised Binz that it was his home and he could leave at any time. Binz agreed to speak without counsel after he was read his Miranda rights. The tone of the interview was conversational and the questioning lasted approximately 5 1/2 hours with a half hour break. After the first three hours of questioning Binz asked for and received antacid tablets and a bathroom break. He he made no other requests even though the officers told him if he needed anything he could ask us and we'll get it. Continuing the quote, Hagland and Lewell employed constitutionally permissible interview techniques. While they plainly intended to move Vince away from his story of non involvement, they acted within entirely permissible bounds. The policeman is not a fiduciary of the suspect. The police are allowed to play on a suspect's ignorance, his anxieties, his fears and his uncertainties. They are just not allowed to magnify those fears, uncertainties and so forth to the point where rational decision becomes impossible. Citing a bunch of precedent there, the police told Binz we don't believe you 12 to 15 times during the interview. Binz relies on this circumstance to argue police misconduct. This however, does not rise to the level of conduct contemplated as improper. Haglund and Lowell allowed Binz breaks and offered him food. They did not threaten him or make promises to him and they did not question him relentlessly in a manner that that controlled or coerced his mind. Although Binz became emotional and cried just before he admitted his guilt, nothing in the record suggests that his crying kept him from making a constitutionally voluntary statement. End quote. I'd like to point out here that no recordings were made of the detectives interview of David Binz in which he sort of confessed. All we have to go on are their handwritten reports of their interaction with him over that five and a half hours. Nonetheless, the the appeals court found that the police interrogation tactics were legally appropriate and David's appeal was denied. Robert appealed his conviction as well arguing that the trial court erred by admitting David's statements to Swenby and Pampering because they were hearsay and their admission violated his rights under the confrontation clause. The appeals court's ruling stated we note Swinby's testimony presents a hearsay within hearsay problem. That is, David's confession to Swenby is hearsay David, as is Swendebee's prior testimony, but both fall under the unavailability exception and were correctly determined by the trial court to be reliable. End quote Robert's guilty verdict was affirmed in 2002. In 2005, he sought habeas corpus relief in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Wisconsin, asserting that the state courts improperly allowed hearsay's statements to be used against him at trial. The Eastern District Court denied the petition for writ of habeas corpus and the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals affirmed the denial. The Binz brothers only remaining hope would be the Wisconsin Innocence Project. This is a not for profit law clinic at the University of Wisconsin, Madison's law school committed to seeking exonerations for the wrongfully convicted. The organization started representing David Binz in 2003 and filed a motion for post conviction DNA testing on his behalf in 2006 and they scored a major win. After a hearing, Judge Donald Zulmulder him again ruled that David had met the requirements of the Wisconsin statute governing convicted felons rights to DNA testing. The Green Bay Police Department was required to deliver all physical evidence in the licensed case to the state crime lab for updated DNA testing. This was to include Sandra's dress, underwear, vaginal swabs and smears and so on. The lab was to test the items but was required to preserve at least half of each sample for for future DNA testing.
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Bring incredible sound into every corner of your home with the new Whimsound Smart Speaker. Get high resolution Audio with a 1.8-inch touchscreen, smart control and modern design in one powerful speaker for just $299. From Quiet Mornings to lively family gatherings, Whimsound makes every moment sound better and feel better too. Create a home for filled with sound you love. Ready to upgrade your sound? Shop now at Amazon and search Whimsound. That's W I M S O u
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n D. Has the news been getting you down? I'm Megan McCardell and I'm here to help. I'm the host of a new show from Washington Post Opinion called Reasonably Optimistic and it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling America right now. Every Wednesday I'm going to talk to people who see a path forward depending
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on it does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together to solve problems where they are.
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You know I am a believer in
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America and that's worth fighting for.
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Join me Wednesdays on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.
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The Global Gaming League is presented by Atlas Earth, the fun cashback app. Hey it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my How We Do It Gaming team take on Gilly the King Wallow 267's million dollars gaming in an epic Global Gaming League video game showdown. Plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match right now@globalgamingleague.com that's globalgamingleague.com in partnership with Level Up Expo.
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In 2006, DNA analyst Linnea Schiffer developed a male STR DNA profile from a vaginal swab taken from Sandra at autopsy. The profile was uploaded into CODIS and did not hit to anyone. Testing on the physical evidence continued in 2008, the Wisconsin innocence Project filed a motion for a new trial for David based on newly discovered evidence. This was the result of the new DNA testing on blood and semen on Sandra's dress. The motion stated, quote, new DNA testing establishes that the H5 bloodstain and the semen came from the same unknown male. This provides strong new evidence that Sandra was sexually assaulted by the same man who killed her. Since David was excluded as a contributor of the blood and the semen, the new DNA evidence creates a reasonable probability that a jury hearing the original trial evidence along with the new evidence would find him not guilty. Accordingly, Binz is entitled to a new trial on the basis of the newly discovered evidence and interest of justice, end quote. The state opposed the motion for new trial and filings flew fast and furious. Ultimately, the Wisconsin Circuit Court and the appeals court sided with the state in 2009, the appeals court ruling stated. As stated, the Circuit Court determined the new evidence added little to what the jury already knew. The jury knew Lyson had sexual intercourse within a day or two of her murder and that Vince had been excluded as a source of the semen. The jury also knew there was a small blood stain on license dress containing blood from an unknown individual. Therefore, the jury could have concluded from the evidence presented at trial exactly what Binz is arguing. It could reasonably conclude now that an unknown assailant responsible for both the bloodstain and the semen sexually assaulted Lyson and then killed her. What Binz ignores is that the evidence presented at trial also supports the opposite theory that Lyson was not sexually assaulted. The medical examiner who conducted Lysen's autopsy, Dr. Scarpol, testified he found no bruises, abrasions, swellings or or lacerations on licensed labia or external vaginal cavity. He also testified he found no evidence of trauma to license internal genitalia. While Scarpole acknowledged his findings did not conclusively prove either that the intercourse was consensual or forced, he testified he found no physical evidence showing it was forced. Scarpole also testified that postmortem injuries to Lyson's body were consistent with her body having been dragged, supporting the inference this was how licensed clothes were partially pulled off and dirt and leaves got into her underwear. Binz's arguments about the integrity of the trial evidence also fail to explain why the new DNA analysis casts doubt on the likelihood a jury would now convict him. While Binz cloaks his argument in the proposition that the new evidence creates a reasonable probability a jury would reach a different result, what he is really arguing is that the original evidence on which he was convicted was flawed. That is not the standard for whether new evidence warrants a new trial. The standard is whether the new evidence, when considered with the old evidence, creates a reasonable probability a jury would reach a different result. The circuit Court determined it did not. We conclude this decision was reasonable based on the relevant facts and the proper legal standard. Accordingly, the court's denial of Binz's request for a new trial was not an erroneous exercise of discretion. It was over. David would spend a long time in prison and there was nothing anyone could do about it. But the Innocence Project was not done. In 2018, the Great North Innocence Project began representing Robert Binz. Basically, they tried to exonerate the brothers using Robert's case, but they needed a different group to represent him to avoid a conflict of interest. So the Great North Innocent Project, based in Minnesota, stepped up and started a push to have their new client exonerated. In September of 2019, the Great North Innocence Project, on behalf of Robert Binz, filed a motion for post conviction scientific testing. The Wisconsin statute governing post conviction DNA testing permits felons convicted on DNA evidence to petition for updated testing if there is a scientific technique that was not available at the time or was not utilized that provides a reasonable likelihood of more accurate and probative results. The gnip motion sought to test the blood and semen from Sandra's dress. Knowing that the Wisconsin statute mandated access to post conviction DNA testing the state stipulated meaning they didn't oppose the testing. A court order was entered on November 1st, 2019 to require the Green Bay Police Department to one search for the fingernail scrapings taken from Sandra at autopsy and two submit the dress, the underwear, the vaginal swabs and smears and all biological evidence samples and extracts derived therefrom to Bode Technologies for testing. The Green Bay Police Department complied. However, the fingernail scrapings were never in their possession and could have been sent to the crime lab or sheriff's office. They are considered lost. The parties submitted a second stipulation for additional DNA testing of blood spatter on Sandra's shoes. Pursuant to the orders the Green Bay Police submitted Sandra's dress and shoes, her pantyhose and slip, underwear, bra, a bloody leaf that was attached to her shoe leaves on her buttocks, hairs from the front of the dress, hairs from her back and buttocks, the body sheet she was transported in, pubic hair combings, the purse and its contents, and a leaf and soil collected from under her body. In short, Bodie's report found that the DNA did not match David or Robert. From the motion to vacate quote defense counsel's extensive additional testing over the past five years found male DNA in blood from the victim's dress, in blood from the victim's shoes, on hairs pulled from her back, on hairs from the front of her dress, and on hairs recovered from her underwear, yet not a shred of it attributable to Robert or David Binz. But lest these efforts be insufficient to exonerate their client, the GNIP took things a step further. They moved for and were awarded a court order to conduct an IGG investigation using the DNA evidence in Sandra's case to identify the source of the consistent blood and semen on her dress. Bode Technologies successfully developed a SNP profile and and it was uploaded to Family Tree DNA and GEDmatch.
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Bring incredible sound into every corner of your home with the new Whimsound smart speaker. Get high resolution Audio with a 1.8-inch touchscreen, smart control and modern design in one powerful speaker for just $299. From Quiet Mornings to lively family gatherings, Whimsound makes every moment sound better and feel better too. Create a home filled with sound you love. Ready to upgrade your sound? Shop now at Amazon and search Whimsound. That's W I I M S O
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U n D the Global Gaming League is presented by Atlas Earth, the fun cashback app. Hey, it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my How We do it gaming team take on Gilly the King Wallow 267's million dollars gaming in an epic Global Gaming League video game showdown plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins in advances to the championship match right now@globalgamingleague.com that's globalgamingleague.com in partnership with Level Up Expo.
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Has the news been getting you down? I'm Megan McArdle and I'm here to help. I'm the host of a new show from Washington Post Opinion called Reasonably Optimistic and it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling America right now. Every Wednesday I'm gonna talk to people who see a path forward.
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It does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together to solve problems where they are.
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You know, I am a believer in America and it's worth fighting for.
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Join me Wednesdays on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts
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in the summer of 2023, the Great North Innocence Project turned to the IGG center at Ramapo College in New Jersey to help identify the source of the unidentified DNA. The Igg center decided to use the case as a test case for its first boot camp for genealogists in training. Six Ramapo IGG center staff and students in the inaugural Ramapo IGG Boot Camp tackled the case over a 10 hour period. Here's what they had to work with. The top matches to the suspect shared 400 centimorgans of DNA with the suspect, likely a first cousin once removed. That was amazing because it meant that the genealogist did not have to build out the top matches tree to beyond the grandparent level to obtain a possible suspect pool. But they also had a number of other great matches to work with on the same side of the suspect's tree, the maternal side. These were 392 centimorgans, approximately a second cousin, and 217 centimorgans, possibly a second cousin once removed. On the paternal side, matches sharing 220 centimorgans, 125 centimorgans and 42 centimorgans ranged from a second cousin twice removed to a third cousin. The genealogists used the matches of matches function to identify which matches were related to each other and which were on the other side of the suspect's tree. The high numbers of shared DNA allowed them to identify the MRCAs, the most recent common ancestors, very quickly. On the maternal side. Many matches exhibited roots in Eastern Europe but had settled in Wisconsin. The Union of Edmund Bartowiak of Wisconsin, whose father was born in Poland, and Marie Anna Wojciek of Wisconsin, whose father was also born in Poland, produced a daughter named Regina Evelyn Bartowiak. She was very likely the suspect's mother. On the suspect's father's side, the union of Wisconsin natives Antone and Minnie Hendrick had produced a son, Norbert Joseph Hendricks. Regina and Norbert had married in 1947, tying together the two family trees, and the couple had three sons, all of whom were the right age to be the suspect who had killed Sandra and all of whom had connections to Green Bay. Ramapo reported the names of all three brothers to the Green Bay investigators, but they put a special asterisk next to the name of one of the brothers. Two of them were deceased and one was living. All called the living one D. Hendricks. His two dead brothers were Gary Hendricks and William Hendricks. It was time to collect some samples. Seasoned Green Bay detective David Groff, with whom I worked on the Lisa Holstead case and my partner Mike Morford, interviewed for our missing persons podcast episode on Amber Wilde, was charged with obtaining DNA from the Hendricks brothers or their immediate descendants. On October 9, 2023, Detective Grof and Detective J. Peters went to the home of Dee Hendricks in De Pere, Wisconsin. They knocked on the door and introduced themselves and explained to Dee Hendricks that they were contacting him about the 1987 murder of Sandra Lyson. They explained that blood and semen had been found on her, and the testing on those items indicated it was possible he was related to the donor of the male DNA. When asked, De Hendricks didn't recognize any of the names of the parties in Sandra's case, hers included. They asked about his deceased brothers, William and Gary. One of the first things Dee Hendricks volunteered was that he remembered his brother William told him that at one time when William went to prison for something somebody else had done, but he couldn't recall who or when. De Hendricks said William was buried in Fort Howard Cemetery. Their other brother, Gary, had been cremated and buried at Holy Cross Cemetery. D. Hendricks agreed to submit a buccal swab for testing. One down. On November 28, 2023, Detective Graf knocked on the door of a man I'm calling Larry Hendricks. Larry was the son of deceased Hendrik's brother Gary. Detective Groff introduced himself, explained what they were doing, and asked Larry for a DNA sample in case he was related to the donor of the male DNA. He agreed, and a buccal swab was collected, two down per a 1-8-2024 court order from now Brown County Circuit Court Judge Donald R. Zuidmulder, who I cannot believe was still involved in this case. The Green Bay police sent the buccal swabs to the crime lab and instructed them to develop STR profiles from Larry and De Hendricks and compare them with to the stains on Sandra's dress. The testing was complete in March 2024. The DNA profiles from Larry and his uncle De Hendricks did not match the suspect STR DNA profile from the stains. Gary and De Hendricks were both eliminated. There was one brother left. They decided to dig up William Hendricks. In April 2024, the court issued an order for disinterment and post conviction scientific testing on on the body of William Hendricks. On May 30, Detective Grof, two Green Bay Police lieutenants and several crime scene techs from the crime lab went to William Hendricks gravesite at Green Bay's Fort Howard Memorial Park, Section MG14, Lot 61, Space 2. Dr. Jordan Kirsten, anthropologist with the University of Wisconsin Oshkosh Chief, Brown County Medical examiner, Dr. Elizabeth Douglas, Crime lab personnel as well as cemetery personnel and and an attorney from the Great North Innocence Project were also in attendance. The cemetery crew dug up the ground and removed the burial vault and transported it to a maintenance shed located in the cemetery. There, the COVID was removed and the casket was extracted and placed for transport into Oblaney's funeral home vehicle. It was driven to the Brown County Medical Examiner's office where in the autopsy suite, Dr. Douglas opened the casket. She and Dr. Carson removed 12 samples for testing. These included the nails from the right and left foot, which for some reason I found particularly revolting. It also included the nails from the left and right hands, molars, head and pubic hair standards, left and right eyebrows and both femurs. The casket was closed and transported back to its resting place in the cemetery. The removed bits of William Hendricks were entered into evidence and transported to the crime lab for testing. Per an Innocence Project report. Due to the age and condition of the remains, the crime lab was unable to develop an STR profile from the disinterred remains. But in July 2024, the Great North Innocence Project got a court order to ship the femurs to Bode Selma work laboratories. And they got it done. When the results were in, they were staggering. It was a match. The report states the probability of randomly selecting the observed profile from a population of unrelated individuals is not more frequent than 1 in 329 trillion. But that wasn't all. On August 28, 2024. Detective Graf sent a letter to the Wisconsin Department of Justice State Crime Lab saying he'd asked by his district attorney to reopen the investigation of the Sandra Lyson homicide. The letter stated, quote, through newer DNA investigative techniques, another person of interest has been identified as William Hendricks. Detective Groff sent several items to the Wisconsin Crime lab for latent police print comparison. These were the unidentified latent print found on glass number three from the Good Times bar and the unidentified latent prints found on the cigar boxes. His report says, quote, according to the details of Green Bay Police Sergeant errand dated August 13, 1987, the glasses were still on the bar waiting to be washed and the two cigar boxes were located in a cabinet in the rear of the bar that money had been taken out from. Detective Graff also submitted fingerprint cards on record from William Hendricks, David Binz and Robert Binz. Absolutely. Shockingly, Detective Graff could find no evidence that the unidentified fingerprints had ever been compared to the Binz brothers. And when the comparison testing was complete, the results showed the prints did not match Robert and David Binz. But according to the lab report, two latent prints that had been developed from one of the cigar boxes matched William Hendrix left ring finger and left middle finger. On the other cigar box, a latent print matched Hendrick's left middle finger. Well, there it was. They had William Hendricks blood and semen on Sandra and they had his fingerprints on a cigar box that had been emptied of cash on the night of Sandra's abduction. Rape and murder. It was over. Except it wasn't. Great North Innocence Project filed the amended motion to vacate conviction and discharged the defendant from custody on September 19th in Brown County's Circuit Court. This motion to vacate Robert Bince's conviction says it is the culmination of more than a year of extraordinary cooperate efforts between defense counsel, The Brown County DA's office, the Green Bay Police Department, the Brown County Medical Examiner's Office and the Wisconsin State Crime Lab, through these joint efforts, a nearly four decades old murder case has finally been solved. The motion states succinctly. DNA testing and analysis by the Wisconsin State Crime Lab has confirmed that the person who sexually assaulted and murdered Sandra Lyson in August 1987 was William Hendricks, a convicted rapist who died in 2000. According to the crime lab, the chances that the semen recovered from Sandra Lyson's body came from someone other than William Hendricks is 1 in 329 trillion. The DNA evidence conclusively points to convicted rapist William Hendricks as the murderer. Accordingly, Defendant Robert Vince hereby moves to vacate his conviction and discharge him from custody. Citing the work of the police prosecution and crime lab, the motion said, quote, through these joint efforts, a nearly four decades old murder case has finally been solved. As you heard, the Great North Innocence Project cited the cooperation of the prosecution in obtaining the evidence exonerating the Binz brothers. It wasn't just because of the DNA and fingerprints. Detective Graff had found more evidence of Hendricks being solely responsible. He hearkened back to some of the original witness reports in Sandra's case. Duke Jocelyn had seen a small red compact car parked by the back door of the bar that he'd never seen there before. Steve C. Had also been at the bar that night and described seeing a small orange or red car parked next to the bar's back door that he didn't know who the owner was. Records showed that Hendricks was living in Green Bay. In August 1987. His brother had put him at an address within a handful of miles from the good times. Detective Grof was able to locate a report from Christmas Day 1988 in which Hendricks was stopped for driving through a red light at the intersection of Broadway and West Walnut in Green Bay. The vehicle was an orange Mazda 2 door that was registered to him at the time. His address was listed as 1230 S. Elmore St. There it was, the small reddish car. Just like his fingerprints. It placed him at the bar on the very night Sandra was killed. On September 25, 2024, Judge Zud Mulder held an expedited hearing on motions filed by Roberts and David's attorneys and to vacate their convictions. In light of all the new evidence of innocence, The Brown County DA's office took the unusual step of joining in the defense team's motion to vacate the Binz brothers convictions. After the hearing, the judge signed an order calling for the brothers immediate release. Judge Zudmlder was the same judge who had found Robert guilty. A quarter century later, he set him free. Judge Zudemolder's comments at the hearing included, quote, today Sandra Lyson will rest in peace because her true murderer is now known. It is therefore my bounded duty to exercise and follow the law. Well satisfied that I will sign judgments vacating the convictions for both of these defendants and set them free, end quote. No mention of his role in the whole thing. Asked how the brothers could have been sentenced to life in prison despite a lack of physical evidence, DA David Lessee told NBC, 26, quote, the prosecutors and the law enforcement officers were handling this case at the outset followed by the evidence that they had at the time and that conviction was sound. End quote. By this I suppose he means that the jury and judge in the Binz trials were informed that the semen on Sandra did not match the Binces and they still voted to convict. Whether the prosecutors had grounds to tell the triers a fact that the semen had absolutely nothing to do with the murder, I think is another issue. The Great North Innocence Project issued a release which stated in part, quote, we are thrilled to see our innocent client Robert Binz released from prison and and returned to his loved ones after a quarter century of wrongful imprisonment. This result could not have been achieved without remarkable cooperation between the defense attorneys, the Investigative Genetic Genealogy center at Ramapo College, Bodie, Selmark Laboratories, The Brown County DA's office, the Green Bay PD and many others. This case began with the brutal and senseless killing of a kind and beloved woman. It ends today with the correction of a 25 year injustice and, and we hope, a measure of closure and healing for the victim's family. End quote. The release of the Binz brothers was heralded as only the third time that IgG has been used to exonerate the wrongfully convicted. But it wasn't all champagne and roses. When they were released in 2024 after almost 25 years in prison, Albert and David were not provided with means, support or resources to help them adapt to life on the outside. The state provides those things for people who serve their full prison terms, but no such system is in place for exonerees. The Green Bay Press Gazette covered the brothers difficult reintegration into Society. In an August 2025 article, Robert was taken in by his sister Cindy, who said he has no money, has mental health and physical ailments, needs 20 daily medications and requires full time care. She told the publication it was really hard and she burned through her savings helping her sibling. As for David, he was no angel. He had a lot of arrests or citations for petty crimes like operating an illegal salvage operation, disorderly conduct, criminal damage and harassment, public nuisance. He was convicted of armed robbery. He was the subject of several reports from his 1980s girlfriend Barbara that he threatened her dogs and purchased guns while being a convicted felon. And of course he was imprisoned in 1996 for a 10 year term for sexual assault of a child. Upon his release, David was dropped off at a motel with just some clothes and toiletries and then found temporary lodging at a men's shelter but needed to find something more long term. So in February 2025, the Binz brothers attorney submitted a claim to the Wisconsin Claims Board requesting compensation for the years they spent in prison for a murder they did not commit. The brothers testified before the board that their lives were shattered by the years they spent incarcerated. The world didn't wait for me. I'm 70 years old and I have nothing, said David Robert told the board. I really broke down in tears today. It really hurts. I can't bring back what I lost. While they were in prison, their mother had died and their sister Cindy's child was killed in a car crash. David's child apparently severed ties with him as well. Per his claims application, David needs significant assistance to function in day to day life and has to somehow pay for lifelong expenses to include provider visits and therapies, psychological counseling and re entry needs, neuropsychological evaluation, medications, diagnostic testing, facility care, legal fiduciary services and case management. David argued that he was incarcerated during prime earning years. He lost 24 years of income earning and savings toward retirement when released from custody. He had no permanent housing, no resources and no plan for successful reintegration into society. He noted that now, given his age, education level and health concerns, he's unable to work. The cap on payouts on wrongful conviction compensation claims in Wisconsin is currently $25,000. In October 2025, the claims board approved the paltry $25,000 payment to each brother plus $130,000 in attorney's fees. 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U N D Has the news been getting you down? I'm Megan McCardell and I'm here to help. I'm the host of a new show from Washington Post Opinion called Reasonably Optimistic and it's an antidote, that pessimism that's riddling America right now. Every Wednesday I'm gonna talk to people who see a path forward.
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Okay, let's talk about the real perpetrator in this case, William Hendricks. William J. Billy Hendricks was born on September 13, 1952 in Green Bay, Wisconsin to parents Norbert Hendricks and Regina Bartowiak. He had two brothers and five sisters. He graduated from West High School. I have no idea what he did for work, his brother David reported. William lived on the east side of Green Bay and held various low level jobs such as working in a meatpacking facility. When he died in 2000, his obituary said he was employed by New Curative Rehabilitation Inc. Which claims to provide professional care services in the home and the community in Brown and Door Counties. According to David, William had some cognitive deficiencies but was able to work and function. He never married and did not date a lot of women. David was not familiar with the Good Times bar, but said that William did frequent bars located on South Broadway, so only a loose connection between William Hendrix and the people and locations in this case. But it turned out Hendrix had quite a record. He'd been arrested a number of times. The first one I found was in December 1972 when he was living on Elmore street in Green Bay and was arrested on shoplifting charges. Then in March 1980, 27 year old Hendricks was sentenced to 40 days in jail on four separate traffic charges, most of which involved operating a vehicle with a revoked license. He was living at the same Elmore street address in September 1980 when he was bound over to Circuit Court on three counts of burglary for incidents that had taken place in Lakewood and Townsend between April 8, 1979 and February 11, 1980. The burglary spree included breaking into multiple businesses, including Ehler's Supermarket in Townsend, where he stole cash, food, beer and cigarettes. Hendricks was housed in the Oconto County Jail pending trial on these burglary charges until he was convicted in October 1980. According to the Green Bay Press Gazette, at his sentencing hearing before Judge Edward Herold Hendricks requested to serve time in jail rather than be placed on probation, his justification was that he wanted to be free to leave oconto county after he served his time. Sure, buddy. No problem. Lock him up. Hendricks was bundled off to jail to serve nine months, but he clearly had a plan up his sleeve the whole time. As soon as he got to the jail, Literally the same day he was sentenced, he escaped by breaking a window and jumping out. He didn't try to flee to mexico or anything. He absconded to the nearest bar, where officers found him within the hour. If hendrix served the full nine months, he would have been released in July 1981. And we know he was out by July 11, 1981, because on that date, he invaded the bond street home of a green bay woman and attacked her in her bed. He bound her hands and tied a sash around her eyes as a blindfold and dragged her off to the kitchen. He used her phone to make a call. I have no idea who was so important to call while in the midst of a kidnapping. And then he dragged his victim into the living room and repeatedly raped her. Afterwards, he told her she was lucky he didn't beat her like he had his other conquests. Yeah, thanks for that. Incredibly, hendricks struck again a month later on August 6, victimizing the very same woman again. He broke into her home, Tied her up, Blindfolded her, Raped her repeatedly, and told her that she should be glad he didn't beat her. But this time, hendricks threatened to choke her to death. According to the criminal complaint filed in that case, Hendricks threatened to harm her and put his hands on her throat and said all he had to do was pinch her windpipe and that would be it. I guess he intended to keep his victim fearful and passive While he slept, because that's what he did. He took a nap. As he snored, the survivor was able to run out of the house and call police. Hendricks woke up to the police pounding on the door and attempted to flee, the survivor shouting to the cops, that's him. Don't let him get away. Hendricks was caught red handed, or should I say red footed, as he had been in such a hurry to escape, he left a sock behind in the survivor's apartment. Hendricks pleaded not guilty and was held on $10,000 bond pending trial. After negotiating away four second degree sexual assault charges in a plea deal, William hendricks pleaded no contest and was convicted on four counts of sexual assault and two counts of false imprisonment. On November 13, 1981, he was sentenced to 10 years in Waupun Correctional Institute. Did he serve all 10 years? What do you think? Of course not. Hendricks Was released on parole on December 20, 1986 after serving half his sentence. Less than eight months later, he abducted, sexually assaulted and murdered Sandra Lyson. He should still have been in prison for his double attacks in the home of the Green Bay rape survivor. Sandra's body was found halfway between the Good Times bar and the location where Hendricks had committed the 1979 and 1980 burglaries in Oconto county where he had extended family. According to his brother David, William was returned to prison in May 1989 and released again on in October 1989. I assume this was because of some unknown parole violation. When William got out of prison, he lived in a halfway house and then an apartment on University Avenue in Green Bay. After that, in the early 1990s, David took William in and William lived with him for a period of time in an apartment at 209 Fort Howard Avenue in De Pere. Then one day he moved out, ditching David with their unpaid rent. They had no contact after that until 1998 when their father died. Detective Grof noted that the address at 209 Fort Howard Avenue was 4.24 miles from the Good Times bar. Other addresses registered to William Hendricks were also on the east side of Green Bay. He was right under their noses the whole time and could even have continued to frequent the Good Times. Yet his name never once appeared in the 3,000 page case file. The next time Hendricks turned up with law enforcement contact was May 1995. This was a really weird incident that illustrated that Hendricks was becoming unhinged. 42 year old Hendricks, who was at the time a cook and resident at the New Community Homeless Shelter, called the Brown county courthouse and told a clerk, there's a pipe bomb going off in 15 minutes and hung up. Over 100 people had to be evacuated from the courthouse. But the bomb scare was a hoax. Police traced the call to the homeless shelter and nailed Hendricks, who was arrested. He told police the bomb threat was a joke and he just wanted to see what happened. The presiding judge ordered Hendricks to submit to a mental health evaluation. The charges against him were dropped. When he was found mentally incompetent to stand trial. The judge ordered him committed to the Brown County Medical Health Center. The homeless shelter that Hendricks lived and worked at was at 401 North Broadway, a mile and a half from the Good Times. Speaking of the good times, did William Hendricks resemble either of the two suspects? Sketches that were done by witnesses in this case at the time of his 1995 arrest? Hendrik's combover noticed by the 1987. Witnesses at the Good Times had completely evaporated and his head resembled that of the stereotypical monk with the bald pate and the ring of dark, unruly hair starting at his temples. He had a formidable mustache, too. Based on the two photos I've seen of Hendricks, he did not at all resemble the sketch Marge and Mike contributed to. Hendricks had a long, thin face, not the round, pudgy one they depicted. He did, however, strongly resemble the second sketch. Hendrix did not last long after his 1995 commitment to the mental hospital. He died on Tuesday, April 18, 2000 at age just 47. I don't know his cause of death, although I imagine he did not lead a healthy lifestyle. His obituary encouraged friends to call a Blini funeral home. I'm sure they were lined up around the block. This last bit is from Detective Graf's closing report. Quote, Hendricks is now considered the prime suspect in the sexual assault and homicide of Sandra Lyson. Due to Hendricks death, additional investigation and any potential prosecution is no longer available. Just a quick aside. I have my doubts whether Hendricks was responsible for the Anita Carlson murder. Hendricks was not known to travel from the Green Bay area and Anita was abducted and murdered 450 plus miles away, deep into Minnesota. I'm hopeful that there is DNA in Anita's case and Minnesota investigators will be able to use it to locate her killer. Okay, enough about Hendricks. I wanted to bring the conclusion of this episode back around to the person whom I feel sort of got lost in the morass of this case. Sandra. Of course, I didn't know her, but I really tried to convey who my victims were whenever possible. Sandra's obituary included a poem written by 15 year old Kathy for her mother. I'm going to read some of it here. She had green thumbs. Her cookbook was always at the ready. She could do the twist to shake the plaster off the walls. And her intelligence, warmth, integrity and perception could drive a saint to envy. I miss her touch. I miss her voice. And as my eyes search, they find the air vacant. But even though her body is cold and unmoving, I know she's not dead. The beautiful thing is that my mother has been set free of its earthly cage. It is white, feathery and gentle, and it soars where once it could only walk. I don't grieve that she won't be there to see me graduate or watch my sister grow older, or that my wedding will be missing one very important person. Because I know she will be there, proudly applauding the good things disapproving and probably screaming her head off at the bad. I love her more than anyone in the world, and I know that she loves me as an adult. Kathy wrote a piece about her mom's struggle to provide for her family, and I'm reading some excerpts from it here. It reads, I am the daughter of a single mother, a mother who raised me and my sister with the help of food stamps, visit to the local food pantry, and government subsidized housing. It's true my mother might have bought a few cigarettes. Though she rarely drank, she did smoke. What I remember most, though, is watching her scratch figures on a back page of her calendar, playing that month's cat and mouse game of paying the bills. As a teenager, I didn't know the details of our financial situation, but I knew it wasn't good. It had never been good. Toward the end of every month, my mother never failed to say, I'm broke. She'd been born a farm girl and throughout her life retained a solid Midwestern work ethic, even if farm chores didn't exactly thrill her. Her younger brother was the one who got sent to college while she had to make do with high school. At 18 she married my dad, a nice Catholic boy who turned out to be an abusive drunk. Giving birth to me gave her the courage to finally divorce him, after which she struggled through seven years of making ends meet only to get pregnant again. Another mouth to feed actually meant hope. For a while she went back to school, got a two year degree in accounting. When the economy went sour, however, even her new degree couldn't keep her from getting laid off. After years of trying and failing to get ahead, my scrupulously honest mother did something I'm sure she never thought she'd do. Took a job working for cash in a blue collar tavern owned by an old friend. Income she didn't report to the unemployment office. Mom had done the math. She knew the calculus. There was no other way at that point she could do more than just get by. No other way to stop saying I'm broke. I seem to recall she made about $60 a shift bartending, something she usually did on Sundays. Until the Sunday two men came into the bar, stole what money there was in the register, and strangled her to death. As an aside, this was written before the binces were exonerated. The irony of my mother's murder was that it accomplished what she could not first, it pulled my sister and me firmly into the middle class. We went to live with our uncle and his family. The younger brother, who'd gone to college and had a good earning job. Second, and more important, after my mother's mother, our grandmother from the farm, died, we each got half of a modest inheritance, end quote. All that from Kathy? Kathy used her inheritance to attend college, as did her sister. Something Kathy wrote her mother was determined to make happen for them. She was taken before she could see it through. But it was the goals she implanted in them, the dreams she taught them were attainable, that were her legacy. Sandra was a strong, independent woman who was an incredible example to her girls. People who knew her said she took no shit from anyone. She was fiercely independent and she was not afraid to close down the bar at night alone. But what choice did she have? As Kathy said, she did not have support and she desperately needed the money. For her girls, her own safety and well being were secondary. So what happened on the night Sandra was killed? And how did she cross paths with William Hendricks? The motion to vacate in support of the Vince's release addresses whether Sandra and Hendricks knew each other. It reads, quote, there is no conceivable innocent explanation for the presence of William Hendricks blood and semen in and on her. The notion that Ms. Lyson was having a secret sexual relationship with a recently released convicted rapist is utterly implausible, inconsistent with law enforcement's interviews of various people at the time of the initial investigation and an insult to Ms. Lyson's memory. End quote. Agreed. The notion is absurd. No, instead, I wondered whether Hendricks had been in the bar before and Sandra was comfortable with him. The original reports filed by Marge and her boyfriend Mike said that they had not seen the man at the bar speaking with Sandra at all. But their later statement said they had seen interaction between the two. I'm not sure which is correct. No one is. But clearly Sandra was okay with the guy sitting there. Remember, Duke checked with her as to whether she would be okay closing up alone, and she assured him, yes. Was Hendrik's goal to commit robbery, or was Sandra his target and the robbery secondary? I can't decide. If he was familiar with the bar, then he would know. A female bartender typically closed on Sunday night, but other regulars did not know him. So I wonder if he came in with a plan to rob the place and Sandra was the icing on the cake. I do wonder how Hendricks knew there was money in the cigar boxes. And how he kept Sandra subdued while he stole all the money he could find in the till and the boxes, leaving his prints as he did so. The fact that he sat there until closing time until he was the last one left after last call tells me that he very likely came there that night armed and with a plan. Whether it was to rob the place, regardless of who the bartender was, we will never know. Retired Green Bay Detective David Graf and I compared theories about what happened to Sandra on that fatal night. I leaned toward William Hendricks, the sole patron left sitting at that bar on that Sunday night, pulling a gun on her. She was known to be a scrapper, to break up fights, to bodily throw people out of the bar. I think it would require significant intimidation to get her to be compliant. But Detective Grof pointed out Sandra had a bleeding head injury from being struck or making contact with hard object. She also had at least one blow to the face. Hendricks could have blindsided her, knocked her out, plundered the bar, and then forced her into his small car and driven into the darkness. We know she walked into the woods under her own power, but we also know it was absolutely under duress. Either way the abduction happened, I'm sure Sandra's only thoughts were of staying alive for her girls. I can't imagine the terror she felt as madness came for her as Hendricks robbed the place, forced her into the car, and drove her through the night over miles of dark city and then country roads into the forest. She had to know then that she was doomed. And I'm certain that she did everything in her power to cajole her assailant to let her live. He didn't. And the impact on everyone in Sandra's life and many in Green Bay, was incalculable. Of course, Sandra's family and friends were devastated and were never the same. And the Binz brothers were convicted and sent to prison for life. In 2000, the very same year William Hendricks died. I wondered whether, if he were alive at the time, whether he would have come forward, spoken up to spare them the injustice of their sentence. I think not. The man who was capable of doing what he did to Sandra, abducting her, beating her, raping her, letting her redress, and then choking the life out of her and going about his day demonstrably has no conscience. I wonder how many times after the murder, he sat at the bar at the Good Times, reveling in his unspeakable secret. Thank you so much to retired Green Bay Police Detective David Grof for speaking with me about this case and to Karen Binder and David Gurney at the Ramapo College Igg center for obtaining justice for Sandra. And if you're one of the bad guys, they are coming for you. Thanks for listening to this episode of dnaid. Before you leave, please let me tell you about some important things related to the show. If you'd like to support this podcast and in the process get access to early and ad free episodes as well as bonus content like crime scene photos, you can sign up for a Patreon subscription for only $5 a month by heading over to patreon.com dnaid. Of course, you're welcome to contribute more than $5 a month. We rely on Patreon funds to pay for the original source materials I use to research each episode. If Patreon isn't your thing, you can also show your support with an AbJack Insider subscription through Apple Podcasts. It costs just $4.99 a month or $49.99 a year. Your Abjak Insider subscription will give you the same benefits for not only DNA ID but for all of the shows on the ABJ Network like Killer Communications and Campus Killings. Head over to Apple Podcasts and find the DNAID page or look for the abjak Network to get started. If you're on social media, we'd love to interact with you there. DNAID is on every major social media platform. Search your favorite platforms for DNAID podcasts to find us. We also have a YouTube channel and our website is DNAIDpodcast.com. you can find links to all of these anytime in our show Notes. If you need to reach the show, contact us by emailing dnaid podcastmail.com finally, if you want to pick up some fun DNA ID merch and represent the show, visit the store at www.customedgirl.coms DNAIDpodcast. DNAID is researched, written and hosted by me, Jessica Betancourt. It's produced by me and Mike Morford of abjack Entertainment Music by Connor Bettencourt.
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