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- [00:00]
Tara Davis Woodhull
There's a fire inside you you can't ignore. Stand still. Not a chance. You're a lifelong learner who's come this far. Now we are here to help you keep going further Capella University what can't you do? Visit capella.edu to learn more. Hey, this is US Olympic gold medalist.
- [00:18]
Hunter Woodhull
Tara Davis Woodhull and I'm US Paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.
- [00:21]
Tara Davis Woodhull
As athletes, our lives are about having a clear path and a team that.
- [00:25]
Hunter Woodhull
You can absolutely trust.
- [00:26]
Tara Davis Woodhull
So when it came to getting the best mortgage, we chose PennyMac. PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA and you.
- [00:34]
Hunter Woodhull
Learn more at pennymac.com PennyMac Loan Services, LLC equal housing lender NMLS ID 35953 licensed by the Department of Financial Protection and Innovation under the California Residential Mortgage Lending Act. Conditions and restrictions may apply in early 2020, the Texas Rangers Unsolved Crimes Investigation Program was reviewing cold case homicides to determine which might qualify for IGG analysis under the Sexual Assault Kit initiative known as saki, funded by the Department of Justice and Bureau of Justice Assistance. In February of that year, Texas Ranger Staff Lt. Trampus Gooding, working with the DPS Crime Lab to identify cases with viable DNA, selected Velma's case as one with an unknown suspect DNA profile, which had been unmatched in CODIS for several years. On February 10, 2020, Gooding assigned the NESSET case to Jeff Strain, the Unsolved Crimes Investigation Program Ranger for Ranger Company E. Ranger Strain was tasked with conducting a review of the case to determine if it could be advanced by subjecting the DNA sample in evidence to updated technologies and testing methods. Strain reviewed the case file and evidence and then contacted Odessa Police Department Sgt. Brad Davis and told him DPS sought to submit the sample of semen from Velma's coat to a private lab, BODE Technologies, with the goal of obtaining a SNP profile and then undertaking an IGG investigation. Of course, Odessa police agreed, and a cutting from Velma's coat containing a semen stain was submitted to bode. Meanwhile, Ranger Strain partnered up with Odessa Police Criminal Investigations Division Robbery Homicide Unit Detective Justin Kate. They started a massive review of the case file and entered the case into ViCAP on June 30, 2020. Just before that, on June 24, Ranger Strain received a screening report from BODE Technologies regarding the DNA analysis of the suspect DNA profile developed from the semen stain. The DNA origin report broke down the suspect's admixture, which was 43.26% North Atlantic heritage and 26.45% Baltic heritage and also included smaller percentages of other populations. They were looking for a Caucasian suspect. The sample was then submitted to gene by gene for processing. Using microarray analysis, a call rate of 79% was obtained and was assessed as suitable for upload into Gedmatch. The closest genetic relative to the suspect sample in GEDmatch shared 392 centimorgans with the suspect, which is approximately in the first cousin once removed to second cousin range. With these promising results, Bode recommended proceeding with forensic genealogy. While Bode was conducting its analysis, Ranger's Train reviewed the case file to see if anyone mentioned in it shared the last name of the top match, which was Cox. But that name did not appear in the case file. Boddy identified a potential suspect on July 7. His name was Billy Wayne Ludwigson. Ludwigson was a white male with brown hair and brown eyes, standing 6 foot 2 inches tall. the time of a recent arrest, he weighed 250 pounds. His DNA was not in code. An investigation into Ludwigson quickly revealed that he could be placed in Odessa right around the time of Velma's murder. Remember, Velma had been killed on April 19, 1982. Ludwigson had very conveniently gotten arrested by Odessa PD twice in March of 1982, once on the 13th and once on the 28th. The first arrest was for possession of coke. The second was for possession of marijuana. During both arrests, Ludwigs enlisted 1521 East 52nd street in Odessa, Texas as his home address. A review of the March 1982 booking photos revealed that Ludwigson, who was 20 at the time, generally matched the physical description of the individual described by eyewitness Sally. This from Detective Cade's report. Quote, I retrieved the booking photos from both arrests. I found that Ludwigson had a short mustache and brown medium length wavy hair that was above shoulder length. I found similarities between his physical description and the description of the male individual that the witness Sally observed walking northbound on Tanglewood Lane, which was in the direction of Ludwigson's residence, approximately 1.9 miles away. End quote. Sally had described a young white male with dark puffy hair that didn't quite reach his collar, which is exactly what Ludwigson's mugshot looked like. The only thing quite a bit off was his height. Since Ludwigson was six' two and Sally thought the man she saw was five' four. Ludwigson, though, also had multiple arrests and law enforcement contact and one arrest was for sexual assault. He was looking like a very promising suspect. The next day, July 8, Odessa investigator Justin Cade called Velma's daughter Joyce. He told her that the investigators were actively working her mom's case. They were following up on an investigative lead regarding a potential suspect. Joyce was grateful that the investigators continued to pursue the case after so many years had elapsed. Now In July of 2020, Texas investigators learned that 58 year old Ludwigson was living outside Denver, Colorado. They started looking at his local activities, somewhat sparse work history, known associates, frequented locations and so on. They learned through a pawn shop records check that he had pawned an Element brand television at the pawn shop at 2815 Broadway in Englewood, Colorado eight times between 2016 and 2020. It's funny, it hadn't occurred to me that you could repeatedly pawn and then redeem the same item. Ranger Strain and Odessa Detective Cade traveled to Colorado on July 9, 2020. The next day at 10am they began surveilling their suspect, staking out his home address at 2495 South vine, number 104, where records showed he was the sole occupant of the rental apartment. This was in a three story apartment building. Detective Cade and Ranger Strain parked their unmarked vehicle at a park across the street and Detective Cade got out and walked around the apartment building. Ludwigson's apartment number 104 was on the ground floor and Detective Cade could smell cigarette smoke coming from the open window. The surveilling investigators were armed with photos of Ludwigson taken from Motor Vehicle Registry records from various arrest reports. They also had descriptors of all his tattoos. They knew what he looked like by this point. They were intimately familiar with this multiple arrestee and his loads of mugshots. At 2:10pm they watched a man identical to the man in the photos with all the right tats leave the apartment building and walk east on East Harvard. He was wearing a T shirt and cargo shorts, hiking boots and a Denver Nuggets flat cap. He walked to Wendy's on South University Boulevard, the investigators tailing on foot. They watched as he ordered two full meals, a Coke and a Dr. Pepper. They sat at a table while he waited for his to go order and filled up his sodas. Then he walked back to his apartment, the investigators tailing him the entire way. He entered his apartment around 2:30pm and never left for the remainder of the day. The next day, stuff started to happen. At 9:22am on July 11, Ranger Strain and Detective Cade drove to Ludwigson's neighborhood and happened to see him walking in the 2300 block of East Harvard toward South East University Boulevard. He was wearing the exact same outfit that he'd been wearing the day before. They watched as he approached a bus stop and sat on a bench waiting for the public bus. They knew he didn't own a car as none was registered to him. Here's the fun part. Ludwigson sat there smoking a cigarette he had just hand rolled, licking the paper to seal it with a lot of juicy saliva, while Ranger Strange sat in an unmarked car filming the entire encounter. Detective Cade pretended to be waiting for the bus too. He asked Ludwigson, how often does the bus come? Ludwigson responded, about once an hour. Do they take cash? Yes. How much is it? $1.50. There was a lot of sitting and standing in silence as a bus approached heading southbound at 9:40am Detective Cade asked, is that the bus? Ludwigson said it wasn't. Another bus would come from a different direction. More silence then at 9:53, Ludwigson said, Five more minutes. Cade then said that he might just wait for his car which was being repaired at the auto mechanics shop across the street and he thought it might almost be done by now. He said, where are you headed? Ludwigson replied to the smokers friendly on Broadway. Kate asked, why don't you just go to the gas station down the street here? Ludwigson responded, they don't have the stuff I like. At 9:59am the transit bus arrived and Ludwigson removed a fabric face mask from his pocket and put it on. Detective Cade jokingly asked him if he liked wearing the mask. Ludwigson chuckled and replied, with all the people on the bus, he didn't have any choice. Cade said, have a good day and Ludwigson said, you too before climbing onto the bus and taking a seat as it drove off. Detective Cade did not get on the bus. As soon as it pulled out of sight, he pulled on a rubber glove, reached down and grabbed the hand rolled cigarette butt that Ludwigson had dropped on the ground at the bus stop. Can I just point out how thankful I am that so many of our suspects are smokers? Ranger strain FedExed the cigarette butt to Bode and returned to Texas while awaiting the results. As they waited for the DNA testing to be completed, the investigators, Detective Cade and Ranger Strain started putting together a statement of probable cause to arrest. On July 15, the two investigators sat down to interview Sally. She was the original witness who had reported seeing a wavy, puffy haired man walking quickly away from the scene. She said she remembered it like it was yesterday. She confirmed she saw a puffy haired white male walking away from the area around 5am that day and she saw no blood on him. The investigators were satisfied that Sally's recollection of the appearance of the suspect was consistent with Ludwigson's description. The height discrepancy was considered insignificant. The statement of probable cause also documented that Ludwigson's arrest reports in March 1982 reflected that he lived near the crime scene and his age at the time 20 was about right. Based on Sally's statement and the suspect profile put together by the FBI on July 16, 2020, Boddy's supplemental forensic case report stated the lab had developed a male DNA profile from the cigarette butt. The DNA profile was submitted to the Texas Department of Public Safety crime lab to be compared to the semen sample from the back of Velma's coat. Testing confirmed that Ludwigson was a contributor to the semen sample. The report says assuming suspect Ludwigson is the source of the profile from the cigarette butt, the probability of obtaining this profile if the DNA came from Suspect Ludwigson and one related unknown individual is 2.67 septillion times greater than the probability of obtaining this profile if the DNA comes from two unknown individuals. I know that sounds like some gobbledygook, but in essence the report says it was him. Detective Cade and Ranger Strain then met with Ector County DA Bobby Bland to go over the evidence. Strain's report said, quote, due to the fact that Detective Cade and I observed Ludwigson deposit his DNA on the cigarette before it was discarded and the DNA profile from the cigarette matches the DNA profile obtained from the semen stain on victim Velma Nesset's coat. Therefore, Ludwigson is the contributor to the DNA profile for found in the semen stain on the coat. Therefore, it is reasonable to believe and Detective Cade and I do believe Billy Ludwigson was present during the murder of Velma Nesset and contributed to her death. Furthermore, Ludwigson ejaculated during the commission of this crime. The DA agreed that there was probable cause to arrest Ludwigson. An arrest warrant was issued by Municipal Court Judge C. Rodriguez and a search warrant for DNA and hair follicles and fingerprints from Ludwigson was issued by District Judge S. Trotter. On July 30, 2020, Ranger Strain and Odessa Police Detective Cade drove to Denver, Colorado. The next day they convened with Sergeant Abel Salas from the Denver PD Cold Case Unit and some Denver patrol officers. At 8:20am they drove over to Ludwigson's place on vine street and knocked on the door. Detective Cade's notes indicate when he answered the door it looked like he'd just woken up. He was wearing camo, cargo shorts and sneakers. He allowed them to come in and agreed to speak with him. They didn't tell him they had multiple warrants. They just told him they were from Texas. If he was shook by that news, he didn't show it. They started to chat with Ludwigson, who did not ask what any of this was about. They asked him for a timeline of his life. He told them that he was from Fort Worth and had been in Texas until seven to ten years ago. He had gotten injured playing football as a freshman in high school and after that he dropped out. He then obtained his commercial driver's license driving transports between Fort Worth and Houston. When he was 18, he moved to Odessa for two years and worked in the oil fields and lived in his mother's garage. Then he went back to Fort Worth, where he lived on 52nd Street. For several years, he worked as a roughneck for Sterling Brown and some other oil companies. While in Fort Worth, he worked as a truck driver and an electrician and doing odds and ends. At this time in 2020, he was unemployed and collecting disability payments. I can't tell you what his exact disability is because it was redacted in my file. But he did say he had heard voices for most of his life and they belonged to his grandmother and his mother. He was on numerous prescription medications for his condition. The Texas officers asked Ludwigson to go with them to the police department to continue the interview. They said this was on a strictly voluntary basis and his freedom was not restricted. In other words, he was not in custody. Ludwigson changed his clothes and then locked his apartment and went with the officers in their car. He was not handcuffed. He said he hadn't eaten breakfast yet. So they stopped by Burger King where he got a Coke and a load of croissant his way. Then they went to Denver police headquarters and escorted Ludwigson into interview room 2A. The door remained open and he was unrestrained. He acknowledged that the interview was voluntary and he was free to leave. He agreed to answer their questions. Note that he had still never asked what this was all about. Basically, Ludwigson sounded like a pretty miserable person. In fact, that's how he described his childhood, miserable. He claimed his mother had been married five or six times and viewed marriage as just like playing the slot machines. Drop a quarter and see what happens. He said that his mother had slept with some of his friends, too. Ludwigson explained he had three sisters, a set of younger twins and one older sister who weren't really a part of his life. He was. He said it sucked living with three girls, so he went to live with his grandparents. But his grandfather was very authoritarian and if Ludwigson failed to do as he was told, he would get a nickel plated.32 to the chest. He said in other words, his grandfather would point a gun at him and threaten him until he agreed to comply. Asked about the tattoo on his arm, Ludwigson explained the name Leann was his former common law wife. He was somewhat frank about his bad choices in life. He said he had done pretty well making $800 a week in the oil fields. But then he started hanging out with associates of a motorcycle gang and frequenting strip clubs and began dealing meth. He himself became addicted to meth and it became a $200 a day habit that he maintained for two years before quitting. After two years in Odessa, he returned to Fort Worth and lived with his grandmother until she died. He eventually sold her house and then lived with his girlfriend who became his common law wife, Leanne. After he was arrested for assaulting her, he became transient for a period of time and Child Protective Services took away his parental rights. He battled them for his two children, but he eventually lost, and that's when he moved to Colorado. After a smoke break outside, Detective Cade questioned Ludwigson about whether he had any violent tendencies. He replied that he did and some of his relationships had turned violent. He cited his relationship with his ex common law wife, Leanne, saying it was really dangerous for the two of them to continue to live together and that he had hurt her shoulder once in a fight at this point. An hour and a half into the interview at 10:48am Ludwigson finally asked why they had traveled all the way from Texas to talk to him. The investigators decided it was time to bring up Odessa. Detective Cade's report says, quote, I asked him about what happened in Odessa that might be interesting. Ludwigson said nothing other than him getting arrested for drug possession. He said that in general, he was a subdued, quiet guy. Then Kate asked him about the Permian Mall. He said, quote, I'm sure I've been there. It was down my street. He said he didn't hang around the mall much, though, because he normally didn't have any money to spend. This was when Detective Cage showed him a photo of Velma Nesset. This from Detective Cade's report, quote, I noticed a slight change in Ludwigson's voice as he replied, I've never seen her before in my life. I explained to Ludwigson that Nesset resided in Odessa. When he did, Ludwigson replied, I don't know the lady. I don't know anything about her. I don't know who she is. I explained to Ludwigson that Nesset was murdered on April 19, 1982. Ludwigson suggested that he had left Odessa and had returned to Fort Worth by the time she was murdered. I proceeded to show Ludwigson his booking photograph from March 13, 1982 and March 28, 1982. Ludwigson confirmed that it was him in the photographs. I never killed anyone. That's against my religion to take a life, ludwigson said. He he continued, my grandmother raised me a little better than that. I'm not crazy like that. Then Detective Cade said he had evidence that Ludwigson was being dishonest and told him they had found his DNA on Velma Nesset's person.
- [17:48]
Tara Davis Woodhull
Hey, this is US Olympic gold medalist.
- [17:50]
Hunter Woodhull
Tara Davis Woodhull and I'm US Paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.
- [17:54]
Tara Davis Woodhull
As athletes, our lives are about having.
- [17:56]
Hunter Woodhull
A clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.
- [17:59]
Tara Davis Woodhull
So when it came to getting the best mortgage, we we chose PennyMac. PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA and you.
- [18:07]
Hunter Woodhull
Learn more at pennymac.com pennymac loan services llc/housing lender nmls id 35953 licensed by the Department of Financial Protection and Innovation under the California Residential Mortgage Lending Act. Conditions and restrictions may apply.
- [18:18]
Tara Davis Woodhull
You've never been one to settle, stand down or standstill. You're a lifelong learner, energized by excellence. There's a fire inside you you can't ignore. You've got competition to outrun, momentum to build on, and your own high standards to meet. Stop now. Not a chance. At Capella University, we help you catch what you're chasing because you've always had the drive. Now go earn the degree. Capella University. What can't you do? Visit capella.edu to learn more.
- [18:48]
Podcast Sponsor/Host
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- [19:51]
Hunter Woodhull
All right, I'm going to summarize all Ludwigson's denials here because they went on for quite some time. Ludwigson said, I couldn't have done it because I was living in Fort Worth. Nope, Detective Cade said, we have you being arrested in Odessa very shortly before Velma was killed. Ludwigson said he didn't know how his DNA got there because he does not know the lady. Detective Cage showed him photos of the culvert. He said he was never there. Ludwigson asked, why would you think I was down there? Again, the DNA. What's DNA? Detective Cade explained, bodily fluids left at the crime scene contain cells that are traceable back to a specific person. And here that person is you. Ludwigson continued to deny any knowledge of the incident. He advised that it would, quote, take a ballsy person. What time did it happen? Detective Cade said, I briefly described how Nesset would walk early in the morning. Ludwigson reiterated, I don't know the lady. The lady wouldn't have done anything to me even if I'd known her. Why would I go and murder someone I don't even know? He later stated, I don't just walk up killing people. I've never killed anybody in my life. But after some time, Ludwigson started to crack. He started to roll another cigarette. They had already let him step outside for more than one and he said, how could you help me if I had done it? Detective Cade said, it depended how much he cooperated. The investigators hauled out a map and pointed out to Ludwigson where exactly Velma had been found in relation to his mother's house. It was a distance of just 1.9 miles. Ludwigson continued to deny knowledge of the incident and stated, man, I can't fucking believe this. I'm just numb. Ludwigson briefly paused and again stated that he wasn't even there. Ludwigson advised that he thought it was about time for him to, quote, get a lawyer because this is not looking good at all. Detective Kate explained to Ludwigson that this was his opportunity to explain everything that about what happened. Ludwigson replied, all right, let me smoke a cigarette. After the smoking, Detective Kate again asked Ludwigson what had happened in Odessa. The suspect pointed at Velma's photo and said, not that. More talking happened. And Ludwigson started to get the picture that this wasn't just going to go away. He said, so with all this stuff, you're not going to let me go, are you? And then this quote. Ludwigson took several sighs for close to a minute. I could see his face become red. He closed his eyes and then looked at the scene photos in front of him. He then sat back in his chair and stated, well, hate to give him up. I do remember that night. There was a guy by the name of B. Moore. He took her, dragged her underneath the culvert. And I was freaked out. I was. I didn't like anything that was going on. He drug her underneath there, and I followed. And he raped her and he stabbed her twice. As soon as he stabbed her the first time, I took off running because I didn't want no part of that. And to this day, I kept my mouth shut about it. I didn't know the lady. I wasn't lying about that. I. I don't know if he knew her or not that I don't know. He never talked to me about it. After that happened. He stabbed her with a butcher knife. And I was like, oh, no way, dude. And I just took off running, got into my car and I left. I left him right there. And I was freaked out. I came back home and that was the last I saw of him. And I don't want to be implicated in this thing because I never killed anybody. I didn't kill anybody or anything. Like I said, I wasn't raised like that. I thought about her sometimes because it freaked me out. I went home and my mom asked, what's the matter? I said nothing. And I went to my room and I cried. And at this point, Ludwigson shed some tears. I couldn't believe I saw that. I don't know how many times he stabbed her, because after the first time, I left and I met up with him like three or four days later. But I was real distant. Ludwigson starts to roll a cigarette here. I didn't really want anything to do with him after that. I don't know what happened to him after that. End quote. Okay, so you heard it. Ludwigson told the investigators that he didn't do it. His buddy Moore did. This from Detective Cade's report. I Told Ludwigson that I wanted to help him out, but he needed to tell me the truth. Ludwigson advised, that is the truth. I wouldn't sit here and cry if it wasn't. I never mentioned it because I wanted to try to forget it. Cade then pointed to Nessa's photo and said, well, no one forgot her. Ludwigson replied, then again, maybe I should have said something. But you know how that goes. You don't rat out your friends. At that point, the investigators read Ludwigson his Miranda rights and he agreed to waive them and give a statement. He said that after the whole thing happened, he went home and laid in bed, but he couldn't sleep and was really freaked out. His mother kept asking him what was going on and he would tell her nothing. She saw him crying and said that he doesn't cry and asked him again what was wrong with him. He said, quote, it ate a hole in me every day, so I guess now maybe I'm a snitch. They started to ask him about this guy B. Moore. He said Moore was an Odessa native who lived in a trailer park with his mother's family. They met while Moore was working at Sonic. Moore had attended Hood Junior High in 1981 or 82 and had flunked some grades. The investigators asked Ludwigson if Moore was a real person and not just a voice in his head. He's a real person, he insisted. Then he said this. If I'm going to be convicted of this murder, then I want to be put to death. I want the chair. From Cade's report, quote, ludwigson requested my promise that that's what will happen, that I'll get put on death row and that I'll be put to death. I don't want to spend my life in prison. What I have left, I'd rather die. Ludwigson asked what would happen from that point forward. I explained to him that he would be going to jail and that he would be entitled to an extradition hearing. During the interview, Ludwigson stated several times that he wanted to waive extradition and travel back to Texas with Detective Cade and me as soon as possible. That all from Ranger Strains report. After a break for a Big Mac, fries and a Coke, they discussed Ludwigson's mental health, most of which is redacted in my file. He claimed to have an alter ego, although he denied that his other personality had had ever done anything bad. They asked Ludwigson about some of his other arrests, which I will get into later. Then they asked him to go over his statements about Velma's murder again. He said he and his buddy Moore were sitting in the mall parking lot smoking pot around 3am When Velma came walking across the bridge. As she walked by the car, Moore jumped out, grabbed her and took her into the culvert. Ludwigson got out of the car and rushed down there just as Moore was wielding a knife and removing Velma's underwear. Moore sexually assaulted her and then asked if Ludwigson wanted to have a turn. Ludwigson stated he believed that Moore was going to stab him if he didn't have sex with Nesset. He stated that in fear for his life, he had sexual intercourse with her. Upon finishing, Ludwigson stood up and Moore stabbed Nesset in the stomach. At that, Ludwigson jumped in his car and got out of there. Okay, so in this iteration of the story, Ludwigson finally admitted to having sex with Velma, although he he implied it was under duress. Why did you not call the police? The modern investigators asked. Ludwigson said he was afraid he would be implicated in Velma's murder. Was this because you had sex with her? His reply was quote, yeah, yeah, yeah. I knew I wasn't in the total right. Even though I felt like my life was being threatened if I didn't. At this time, Detective Cade and Ranger Strain executed the search warrant for Ludwigson's DNA, hair and fingerprints. He readily complied with the search and buckle swabs from both cheeks were collected. He was then placed under arrest. Ludwigson requested that before being taken to the jail he be allowed to return to his apartment to pick up his medication glasses and upper dentures. I'm not sure how he ate that BK loaded croissant without his teeth, but let's move on. The investigators agreed to this request and had him driven to his apartment by Denver police officer Deal. While at his apartment, Ludwigson came across his neighbor in the next door apartment number 105 and told him that he wouldn't be back. He explained that he was being arrested for murder. His neighbor replied, that'll do it. He told his neighbor to tell Gus, the apartment manager that he wouldn't be back and to just take all my stuff and throw it away. Ludwigson told his neighbor he could have all his furniture and the television in his apartment. Then he locked the apartment and Officer Deal drove him to the Denver county downtown detention center on Colfax Avenue where Ludwigson was booked into jail. At 4:30pm Detective Cade and Ranger Strain placed a phone call to Velma nesset's daughter Joyce and informed her about the arrest of a suspect in her mom's murder. Cade's report says she was elated and thanked us for our perseverance and hard work. I'm not going to go into this in too much detail, but on August 10th, the Denver DA's office notified the Odessa investigators that Ludwigson was after all, contesting his extradition to Texas. They had to commence the process for obtaining a governor's warrant which provides legal grounds for involuntary extraditing a prisoner to the Lone Star State. To that end, an Ector county grand jury indicted Ludwigson for the offense of murder in the first degree on August 18, 2020. While the extradition process was winding its way through the red tape, Detective Cade and Ranger Strain had to look into the allegations made by Ludwigson that a school buddy of his named B. Moore was was the person who had actually killed Velma. A quick records check of Moore revealed that he did indeed have a record including an arrest in October 1984 for possession of a controlled substance and several sexual assault related offenses. His physical characteristics were similar to those described by the witness Sally of the man she had seen walking away from the murder. He was 5 foot 6, 150 pounds. Ludwigson had said Moore was armed with a butcher knife and one had been found ditched at the mall. It was definitely not out of the question that this guy Moore had been the instigator on Velma's murder. Furthermore, Moore indeed had worked at Sonic just as maintained by Ludwigson. And his photo did appear in the Hood Junior High School yearbook just as Ludwigson had said. On September 27, 2020, Ranger Strain and Detective Cade traveled to Newcastle, Pennsylvania armed with a search warrant for Moore's DNA. On the 28th, they knocked on the door of his double wide trailer and spoke with his girlfriend Kimberly. She said that Moore was at a doctor's appointment. The two investigators proceeded to downtown Newcastle and confronted Moore outside his doctor's office. They found him sitting in his car smoking a cigarette. He had just had some injections for pain in his neck from a motorcycle accident he had suffered in the 80s. Detective Cade identified himself and said he wished to speak with him regarding his friend from Texas. Billy Moore said, I'm not friends with a Billy. Under continued questioning, Moore did confirm that he had lived in Odessa and said he traveled around the state a lot with his ex employer Sonic. He agreed to go down to the police station to talk with the investigators. The investigators drove Moore to the police station nearby and placed Moore in an interview room. They left the door open and told him the interview was Strictly voluntary and he could leave at any time. They said they wanted to talk to him about Billy Wayne Ludwigson. They told him that Ludwigson specifically spoke about him mentioning very specific details about them and maintained that that the two knew each other and had spent some time together. Moore acknowledged that he had indeed worked for Sonic. He had also lived in a trailer in Odessa with his parents and four sisters. The officers showed Moore his photo in the Hood Junior High school yearbook and he confirmed it was a photo of himself and said he had attended eighth grade. Twice Ludwigson had told the officers that Moore had repeated eighth grade. Moore said that after the second go round with eighth grade, he dropped out of school. Then they showed Moore a picture of Ludwigson from 1982. He looked at it and said, I don't recognize this guy. They told him that at the time Ludwigson would have been driving a blue Camaro. I'm going to cut to the chase here and tell you that at no point during this or any subsequent interview did Moore ever admit to even knowing who Billy Wayne Ludwigson was. The investigators told him that Ludwigson was involved in a murder in April 1982 in Odessa and that Ludwigson had specifically described Moore as also being involved in the murder. Quote, he stared at me for several seconds before quietly stating, huh? I didn't hurt anybody. Moore then stated, so I'm being accused of murder. The officers explained that Ludwigson said they were together at the time of this murder and that they just wanted to find out what happened. He shook his head and quietly replied, I don't know. He looked at the photo of Ludwigson and again said, I don't recognize him. He said he didn't have too many friends from back at that time. He had dropped out of school at 15 and started working at Sonic. He'd worked there for nearly 30 years. He wondered aloud, why would anybody say like that? Detective Cade said, that's why we're here asking you. Moore did confirm that he remembered the Permian Mall and that the trailer he lived in with his family was fairly close to it. The most they could get out of him was, it must have been somebody I hung out with for a few days because I don't remember him and I definitely didn't kill anybody. Detective Cade told Moore that he had no doubt whatsoever that Ludwigson actually knew him. Moore acknowledged that he probably did. The detective asked how, and he replied, I really don't know. Then the detective showed Moore some photos of the crime scene. The photos depicted the drainage culvert and the mall Surrounding area, but didn't show Velma. Cade told Moore that Velma was a little old lady. Moore said things like, I can't even kill a damn raccoon. That guy's evil, and this guy needs the electric chair. Then they showed him a photo of Velma to try to jog his memory. He said, only, this is really sad. I didn't do this. They asked him if he ever wore a bowler hat, and he said, absolutely not. Quote, during the interview, I asked Moore if there was any reason why his DNA would be on Nesset's person. He replied, my DNA wasn't on her. This has really messed me up. I would never do anything like that, especially to an old lady. I don't have that kind of heart. I have a big heart. Loving, caring, considerate. It takes a monster to do something like that. He's definitely a monster. Investigators asked Moore if he would give a sample of his DNA, and he readily consented, pointing out it's already on record. He said his DNA was on file because he was a convicted felon and did prison time in the Texas Department of Criminal Justice. Nonetheless, they obtained buckle swabs from Moore there and then. Moore continued to say things like, this has really got me messed up. I have to go back and tell my girlfriend about this. He claimed, I murdered an old lady. The investigators asked why Ludwigson would bring his name into the investigation, and Moore stated, I don't know. I can't tell you. Maybe he was stalking me that week and I told him to go away and this was his way of getting back. I have to mention here there is some indication that Moore was bisexual, which was why this statement was not as odd as it otherwise sounds. The investigators continued to press Moore regarding his association with Ludwigson, and he continued to deny it. He finally just said, I don't know what to tell you guys. This from Ranger Strains Report. Both Detective Cade and I recognized, based on our training and experience, that Moore showed indicators of deception during the interview. For strategic reasons, they decided to table the interview until the following day. Then they took Moore back to his vehicle at the doctor's office, agreeing that they would meet him back at the police post at 9 the next morning. I know what you're thinking. There is no way Moore showed up for the morning meeting. Well, he did. The next day, Moore and his sister showed up at the police station as promised. Again, the investigators explained to him that the interview was voluntary and he was free to leave as the door was open. Moore said the night before, he had called his sisters and they had racked their brains and none of them knew Ludwigson. Detective Cade explained to Moore that he couldn't understand how Ludwigson could know Moore so well, but Moore didn't know anything about Ludwigson. Moore agreed. He admitted that his life was very fast back then and he hung out with a lot of different people. But truthfully, I don't remember him.
- [34:49]
Tara Davis Woodhull
Hey, this is U.S. olympic gold medalist.
- [34:51]
Hunter Woodhull
Tara Davis Woodhull, and I'm U.S. paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.
- [34:54]
Tara Davis Woodhull
As athletes, our lives are about having.
- [34:56]
Hunter Woodhull
A clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.
- [35:00]
Tara Davis Woodhull
So when it came to getting the best mortgage, we chose PennyMac. PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA and you.
- [35:07]
Hunter Woodhull
Learn more at pennymac.com PennyMac Loan Service, LLC equal housing lender NMLS ID 35953 licensed by the Department of Financial Protection and Innovation under the California Residential Mortgage Lending Act. Conditions and restrictions may apply.
- [35:19]
Tara Davis Woodhull
You've never been one to settle, stand down or stand still. You're a lifelong learner, energized by excellence. There's a fire inside you you can't ignore. You've got competition to outrun, momentum to build on, and your own high standards to meet. Stop now. Not a chance. At Capella University we help you catch what you're chasing because you've always had the drive. Now go earn the degree. Capella University. What can't you do? Visit capella.edu to learn more.
- [35:49]
Podcast Sponsor/Host
Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your product prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment, recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures.
- [36:52]
Hunter Woodhull
Moore's sister was also interviewed. She said none of them knew Ludwigson. Her theory was that Ludwigson had made the whole thing up, perhaps trying to get back at Moore because he was popular and got the girls in high school. At the end of the interview session, Moore agreed to take a polygraph. At a later date. He said, I am innocent. Five days later, on October 2nd, Detective Cade received a report from the Texas DPS Crime Lab. The investigators had requested additional testing on Velma's clothing to see if they could locate DNA from Moore. The report stated that a DNA mixture from three individuals were was found in the waistband area of Velma's pants. The profiles belonged to Velma herself, Danny Wayne Ludwigson and a third unrelated unknown individual. Detective Cade and Ranger Strain then arranged for expediting a DNA comparison from the buccal swab DNA for more that they had collected. On September 14, 2020, Ranger strain and Detective Cade learned that Ludwigson's extradition to Texas had been approved by by the Texas governor's office. On October 8, the two traveled to Denver, Colorado to extradite Ludwigson using a Texas DPS jet. They collected him at the Denver County Jail, cuffed his hands to a belly chain and boarded the private jet back to Texas. This from Ranger Strains report quote, during the flight, I told Ludwigson that I spoke with his children. Ludwigson replied that before he was put to death he hoped to see his children again. Ludwigson explained that he didn't want to rot in jail. Ludwigson then asked, my deal still goes with y', all, correct? I asked what deal he was referring to. Ludwigson replied that if I plead guilty to all this that I get the death penalty. I explained to Ludwigson that the circumstances surrounding a conviction were up to the DA's office. Then Ludwigson asked if they had spoken to Moore. Yes, Detective Cade said Ludwigson wanted to know what Moore had said. Detective Cade reread Ludwigson his Miranda rights and Ludwigson waved them. Detective K then said, what do you think he told us? And Ludwigson responded that I did it. Detective Cade then told Ludwigson that Moore had denied knowing him at all. Ludwigson said, how would I know who he is if he doesn't know me? He again reeled off all the information he knew about Moore, including that his own sister Elaine was friendly with Moore. They all used to hang out together and Moore had stayed with Ludwigson in his grandparents home in Fort Worth for several Weeks after they split town after Velma's murder. It was a question of he said. He said Ludwigson reiterated his same story, that the two had been smoking pot in the mall parking lot when Velma walked along and Moore grabbed her and dragged her into a culvert. That Moore had been the one to rape Velma. And then he shook the knife at Ludwigson and made him rape Velma. And then he stabbed her in the stomach. And Ludwigson fled. He said Moore would never tell him what he did with the knife. But then he shared some new information that Moore had planned the whole thing because he wanted to get back at Velma because she had, quote, snitched him off. The investigators asked about what. And Ludwigson said that Moore had gone into a store in the mall and was going to shoplift. And she caught him and told her supervisor that Moore had been trying to shoplift and he was banned from the store. So this sounds like a stretch. Thelma was the cleaning lady in the mall offices for a few hours each morning. She wasn't patrolling the stores, acting as a security guard. After landing at Midland Airport, the investigators put Ludwigson in a police vehicle and they went to the culvert, which Ludwigson acknowledged was the place where the murder had happened. Quote, ludwigson showed us where he had parked the night nyset was killed. Ludwigson proceeded to describe that Naset had walked across Tanglewood Lane and across the bridge of the drainage culvert. It was dark outside. Ludwigson believed that it was about 4:30 in the morning. Then he said Moore struck after the murder. He heard about the whole thing on the news and he and Moore left Odessa and went to Fort Worth to stay with Ludwigson's grandparents. Investigators noted that Ludwigson's story each time was a little different. Previously, he had said that after Moore had stabbed Velma, he ran to his car and left without his buddy Moore. In this iteration, they both got into his car and went to Ludwigson's house. After this conversation, Ludwigson was booked into the Ector County Law Enforcement Center Jail. He was held on $500,000 bond. Odessa Police Department Public Information Officer Steve Le Sueur announced the arrest, stating, who would have known 30 years ago that this would ever have been possible. This is why we never give up with these cases, specifically these homicides and very serious violent crime type of cases. As with all homicides, there is no statute of limitations. They are always ongoing. So that is why 10, 20, 30, 40, 40 years later, we can make an arrest. End quote. On November 13th, Detective Cade received a critical report from the Texas DPS Crime Lab. I am quoting from his report here. The report indicated that Bea Moore was excluded as a contributor to the DNA sample recovered from Nesset's waistband area of her pants, along with other stains located on Nesset's clothing. End quote. There was no DNA from Moore anywhere on Velma's clothing. And since he was the one who had, quote, unquote, drug her into the culvert and sexually assaulted her first, that was very unlikely. In his interview, Moore had agreed to take a polygraph exam. Now he was contacted and requested to set up the polygraph to definitively rule him out. He initially agreed and the test was set up via the Pennsylvania State Police. And then Moore backed out and refused any further cooperation with the the investigation. Now the Ector county authorities had to decide how to proceed. On January 6, 2021, Detective Cade and Ranger Strain met with prosecutors from the Ector County DA's office and updated them with regard to Ludwigson, the allegations he'd made about Moore and Moore's refusal to cooperate. Further. After talking the whole thing over and assessing whether they had any evidence on Moore, it was determined that no charges were appropriate for Moore. Without further evidence of his involvement in the murder of Velma Nesset, The Ector County DA's office decided to prosecute Billy Wayne Ludwigson alone for Velma's murder. Okay, we already heard a lot about Ludwigson from the man himself in his interviews with the investigators. Billy Wayne Ludwigson was born on January 26, 1962 to Gary and Carolyn Ludwigson. Ludwigson's father wasn't really a part of his son's life. He was a military man and he and Carolyn divorced when Ludwigson was very young and Gary moved away. Ludwigson was a very hyperactive child and was sent to a special school. He finally dropped out of public school when he was old enough. He followed his mother and sisters to Odessa from Fort Worth in 1979 or 1980 and then returned to Fort Worth living with his grandparents. This sounds nice, but it wasn't. Ludwigson abused and terrorized his grandparents. As we will hear. Ludwigson had told the investigators, he was basically estranged from his sisters. Detective Cade and Ranger Strain traveled to Fort Worth. Sit down with one of them, Thelma. They met with her and her husband at an Arby's. She said she hadn't spoken to her brother in over a decade. She had cut him off because he was someone who used people. She had allowed him to live with her for a time until he butted heads with her husband. So then she got him a fully furnished trailer for him to live in with his kids. However, Child Protective Services had taken the kids away and requested that Thelma take them. She had to decline because Ludwigson had threatened her that if she ever took his kids away from him, he. He would kill her. She remained scared of him and said she wasn't the only one. When Thelma learned from the investigators that her brother was involved in a murder from when they lived in Odessa, she said that he was evil and capable of anything. She remembered that he used to, quote, beat the shit out of their grandmother when he lived with her. He also had beaten up her grandfather until he was bloody. Their mother, Carolyn, had finally taken Ludwigson to a psychiatric institution to be evaluated. She said he believed that he tricked the psychiatrist by lying and. And that that was a very typical thing for him. He was a habitual liar and could convince people of anything. He had the mentality that everybody owed him something. She described her brother as mean and someone who has always had a mean personality. Their mother had always believed that he was mentally off, as she put it. This is why she had him evaluated by a mental health professional. Once when Len and his mother got into an argument, he shoved her and she fell and broke her wrist. They asked Thelma about Ludwigson's friends and she said he really didn't have very many. They then asked her if she recognized the name of the man named by Ludwigson as the killer of Thelma Nesset B. Moore. She did not remember him. When she saw a photo of him, she said she believed that he might have gone to school with her and she'd seen him around quite a bit. But she never remembered him hanging out with her brother at all. Thelma denied having any knowledge of her brother being involved in Velma's murder, but she said she knew he was violent. Besides beating up his grandparents and their mother, he used to, beat the crap out of the mother of his children. Next, the investigators tracked down Leanne E. Ludwigson's ex girlfriend. As soon as they told her they wished to speak with her regarding Ludwigson, she replied, oh, my God, what's he done now? She described him as very abusive during the two years that they had lived together. In 2013, she had him arrested after a domestic violence incident and she hadn't seen him since. She said he was someone who likes to get high a lot. His lifelong goal was to move to Colorado where weed was legal. She said when he got angry, he got really violent. He threatened to kill his ex wife a number of times. Leann described Ludwigson as the worst mistake of her whole life. Then they tracked down Leanne B. Ludwigson's ex wife. Yes, the two predominant romantic relationships in Ludwigson's life were both with women named Leanne. This Leanne said she hadn't heard from Ludwigson in years. She called him a complete idiot. She confirmed that they had two children together and described her relationship with him as abusive, both mentally and physically. He would beat the crap out of her when they were together, punching her, hitting her, and even trying to drown her in their pool. She called him psycho and evil and said his drug of choice at the time they were together was meth. She said he was abusive to his grandparents, too, even though they gave him $1,000 a month to live on. Leanne denied knowing anything about a murder, although she was all too aware of many arrests her ex had on his record. Leanne B. Suggested that the investigators talk to Ludwigson's stepbrother, a guy I'm calling Boone. Boone's father, Jack, was married to Carolyn for 20 years. As soon as the investigators asked Boone if he knew Ludwigson, he replied, yes, yes, I do. What do you want to know? He's a fucking piece of shit. They explained they were investigating a homicide out of Odessa that occurred in the 1980s, and Boone seemed genuinely surprised. Although he said Ludwigson told him about doing some bad stuff. He had always wondered why Ludwigson left Odessa and returned to Fort Worth. Boone knew Ludwigson very well, having lived with him for several years. He did not have nice things to say. He called Ludwigson evil and said he had a prison mentality and a nasty bad attitude. If he didn't get what he wanted, he would punch someone to get it. He frequented sex workers and made Boone go along with him. In fact, he lost his virginity to a sex worker whom Ludwigson was holding at gunpoint while he forced Boone to have sex with her. This occurred in a trailer that the two were living in. Ludwigson was carrying a.357 revolver at the time. On another occasion, after Ludwigson had picked up a sex worker, he held a gun on her and threatened to shoot her. He said to Boone, should I do it? Boone, horrified, said, no, please don't, and Ludwigson put the gun away. Another time, Ludwigson got naked and demanded that Boone touch his penis. He was scared that Ludwigson might rape him. He never actually did, but Boone was clearly terrified. He said Ludwigson had no friends and was inept with women, only being able to get with them if they were nasty, which is the best quote ever. He recalled an incident where Ludwigson kidnapped a sex worker, which I will come back to. He also deliberately dropped a tool on a co worker's head at the oil rig. Boone said Lubwigson absolutely belonged in jail. However, he didn't know anything about an actual murder.
- [48:47]
Tara Davis Woodhull
Hey, this is US Olympic gold medalist.
- [48:49]
Hunter Woodhull
Tara Davis Woodhull and I'm US Paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.
- [48:52]
Tara Davis Woodhull
As athletes, our lives are about having.
- [48:54]
Hunter Woodhull
A clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.
- [48:57]
Tara Davis Woodhull
So when it came to getting the best mortgage, we chose PennyMac. PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA and you.
- [49:05]
Hunter Woodhull
Learn more at pennymac.com PennyMac Loan Services, LLC equal housing lender NMLS ID 35953 licensed by the Department of Financial Protection and Innovation under the California Residential Mortgage Lending Act. Conditions and restrictions may apply.
- [49:16]
Tara Davis Woodhull
You've never been one to settle, stand down or stand still. You're a lifelong learner, energized by excellence. There's a fire inside you you can't ignore. You've got competition to outrun, mammoth momentum to build on, and your own high standards to meet. Stop now. Not a chance. At Capella University we help you catch what you're chasing because you've always had the drive. Now go earn the degree. Capella University. What can't you do? Visit capella.edu to learn more.
- [49:47]
Podcast Sponsor/Host
Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you backtest it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comdisclosures.
- [50:50]
Hunter Woodhull
Okay, I've referred a number of times to multiple previous arrests Ludwigson had on January 13, 1980, he was arrested for trespassing by the Fort Worth Police. On March 13, 1982, he was arrested for cocaine possession by the Odessa police and on 3-28-82, he was again arrested by the Odessa police, this time for marijuana possession. On May 31, 1984, he was arrested by the Arlington PD for marijuana. Then on August 15, 1984, he was arrested for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon by the Fort Worth PD. On January 26, 1999, he was arrested for terroristic threat by the Tarrant County Sheriff's Department. On August 12, 2000, he was arrested for kidnapping by the Fort Worth PD. On August 12, 2000, he was arrested for an offense that took place on April 18 of that year, theft of property over $20 and under $500 by check. On May 6, 2003, he was arrested for obstruction or retaliation by the Tarrant County Sheriff's Department. On April 16, 2013, he was arrested for assault causing bodily injury. Family member, Fort Worth PD and then on January 14, 2014 park curfew violation Denver PD Denver Police Sergeant Salas provided 10 reports about police contact with Ludwigson in Colorado. The reports provided details regarding citations for violating park curfew and public order crimes, including camping on the sidewalk. The reports are mostly in the Latter part of 2013, when Ludwigson was apparently homeless. Ludwigson had been arrested in Fort Worth on October 23, 1983 on a charge of criminal attempted aggravated sexual abuse. On that date, at 4:07am Officers from the Fort Worth Police Department were dispatched to to a female survivor's home. She had called the police reporting an attempted sexual assault. She said that at 2:30am her car broke down on the northbound side of 4900 East Loop 820 South. She left her car there and walked to a nearby store and used the payphone to call her father to pick her up. She walked back to the car and locked herself in the car while she waited for her dad. At 2:50am a yellow 1975 Chevy Camaro drove up. The driver was Ludwigson. He parked his Camaro in front of the survivor's car. He got out and asked if she needed help. She said no through the closed window. He went back to his car and began to drive away and then quickly backed up to within one foot of her vehicle and slammed on the brakes. He then approached her car again and appeared to Be angry. He banged on her window, yelling, unlock this door. I have a gun. She refused. He said again, I have a gun in my pocket and I'm going to shoot you. Open the door. She was unsure if he had a gun. It was dark, so she unlocked the door. He yanked the door open and pulled a Rambo looking knife out of his pocket and opened it with one hand. He then told her, I'm going to fuck you and chop you up into a million little pieces. The survivor noted that Ludwigson appeared to be extremely disturbed. He held the knife to her throat and reached in the window and started fondling her breasts. He told her that she was pretty, but she was a worthless whore and he threatened to slit her throat. Luckily for this survivor, another car drove by, causing her, her assailant, to turn and look at it. She kicked the door open into him, making him drop the knife. And then she slammed the door and locked it. Ludwigson ran to his car and drove off. This badass survivor managed to get a look at his license plate when she reported the terrifying incident. He was arrested and thrown in the Fort Worth Police Department jail under questioning about this incident. Prior to his 2020 arrest, Ludwigson told Detective Cade and Ranger Strain that the survivor was way out there and he had only been trying to help her. He said the reason she freaked out about a gun was he put his hand in his pants pocket because it was, quote, kind of chilly while out on bond for this incident. Just a few Months later, on August 14, 1984, Ludwigson was again arrested for aggravated assault. This time the victims were his grandmother, Thelma Neal, and Ludwigson's stepfather, Clarence Neal. The Neals called the Fort Worth Police Department to report that their grandson was threatening to kill them. When the police pulled up to their house on Forest Avenue in Fort Worth, they saw Clarence running across the front yard flagging down the responding officers. Clarence said they needed help because their grandson had threatened to kill both of them. The officers found Ludwigson asleep in the house. They let him snore while they spoke with Thelma and Clarence. The elderly couple reported that Ludwigson had abruptly begun ranting and raving how he'd been mistreated his whole life. He then grabbed a gun and began threatening them. Quote, he placed the loaded gun beside his grandmother's head with the hammer cocked and threatened to shoot her if they did not start doing what he wanted them to do. He also said, quote, if they told anybody or called the police that not only would he shoot the police officer that arrived on scene, but he would also kill them, end quote. This was not the first time that they had been put in fear by their grandson. Clarence and Thelma reported that in the past few months he had assaulted both of them. During one incident, he pistol whipped Thelma. They told the cops that they had waited for Ludwigson to fall asleep before calling them because they were so afraid of him. Thelma and Clarence said Ludwigson had lived with them for about a year, but he'd been getting in trouble, causing problems and doing drugs for longer than that. Hearing all this, the police woke Ludwigson up and arrested him. He took the officers into his bedroom where they recovered an RG4 pistol and six.22 caliber bullets, both on scene. Officers reported that they felt Ludwigson was capable of doing bodily harm to Clarence and Thelma and the mental and physical damage he was doing to them was a threat on their lives. In fact, some officers remained in a vehicle with Thelma due to her fear of Ludwigson until he was removed. Ludwigson protested that just because he had put a gun to his grandmother's head didn't mean he was going to use it. It's unclear whether this was at a different event, but it sounds like it was. Ludwigson was charged with aggravated assault for putting a gun in his step grandfather's face. For this he was sentenced to two and a half years in prison and was discharged on parole after a year and a half. When the modern investigators asked about this event, Ludwigson said he, quote, got tired one day and put a gun to his grandfather's face like he put in mine. Ludwigson asked his grandfather, how do you like it? Do you like it? I'm just loving it. I got a hard on for this. His grandfather called the police and his step grandson was arrested. Fort Worth police had the delightful experience of arresting Ludwigson again on August 11th of 2000 for kidnapping a sex worker. This is a crazy story. Around 3:15pm two women appeared at the front reception desk of the police department on East Lancaster Avenue. The female witness said she had picked up the other woman, a kidnapping survivor, on the street at Forest and Greenlee. The survivor was distraught. She had a handcuff attached to her ankle and a rope tangled around her arms and legs. She said she had been walking on Meadowbrook around 8am When Ludwigson pulled up in a pickup truck and asked her where she was going. She asked for a ride to the area of Avenue G and Miller and he agreed. But then he started driving eastbound on Meadowbrook going the wrong direction. When she requested that he let her out. He grabbed her by the hair and forced her head onto his lap. Then he handcuffed her arms behind her back. They went to his house at 2709 Forest and he grabbed her, took her into the residence and threw her down. She started screaming and he told her to shut up or he would kill her. He then retrieved rope and additional handcuffs and bound her legs and tied her securely and shoved her in a bedroom closet. I don't know how she managed to escape, but she did and was able to flag down the Good Samaritan who brought her to the police station. When Detective Cade asked about this incident, Ludwigson said that he had stopped to help that girl because she was being chased by a black man. After he picked her up in his truck, she broke into his house and put on the handcuffs that he and his ex wife used. Then I'm sure after the investigators told him this story was not believable, he admitted that he had cuffed and restrained the sex worker because she overcharged him for her services. I can barely bring myself to tell you any more about this lying piece of human garbage. I cannot conceal my utter and complete disdain for his entire existence. But on we go. Next up in Ludwigson's criminal history was his arrest by the Tarrant County Sheriff's office on May 6, 2003. The victim in this case was Ludwigson's own mother, Carolyn, who died later that year. The offense he was arrested for was retaliation with threat to harm. The witness was his stepfather, Jack DeLoach. What happened was that on May 6, investigator R. Thompson of the Tarrant County Sheriff's Office was summoned to the deloaches home on Whiteleaf Court east in Fort Worth. Jack deloach reported a burglary, saying that his stepson had stolen two impact wrenches from his garage. Investigator Thompson rapidly recovered both impact wrenches from a pawn shop in Azle, Texas. That afternoon, Ludwigson called the Sheriff's office and spoke with Investigator Thompson. He angrily demanded to know why they were checking pawn shops for items he had pawned. In the background. The the investigator could hear the voice of a woman crying and whimpering. He demanded to speak to her and it turned out to be Carolyn, whose voice was, quote, shaky and broken. When asked if she felt threatened, she quietly said, I don't know. Thompson asked if Ludwigson might hurt her and she said again, I don't know. Note she could not speak freely as Ludwigson was standing right there. Investigator Thompson promptly dispatched deputies to conduct a welfare check on the deloaches. The deputies who arrived at the Deloittes home Reported later that Carolyn confirmed that she was afraid of her son. He had threatened her and her husband for reporting the burglary, saying things like, if I lose my kids, I'll cut off both your heads. All of you are sorry motherfuckers and you're going to pay if I lose my kids. Police arrested Ludwigson for the crime of retaliation. In his subsequent interview, Ludwigson stated his mother must have misunderstood him. He merely said that he would knock their heads off if they did not stop messing with him and and trying to put him in jail. The next reported law enforcement contact was April 16, 2003, when again Ludwigson was arrested for assault causing bodily injury. This time, the survivor was Leanne E. On that date, Fort Worth Police Department officers were dispatched to 1200 East Seminary Drive, number 416, on a domestic disturbance call. When they got there, Leanne was crying and appeared to be terrified. She had a bruise on her right cheekbone. She reported that she lived with Ludwigson and they had been in an on again, off again sexual relationship for the past two years. They had gotten into a verbal argument about the relationship and she left the home for several hours to cool off. When she got back, he pinned her to the wall and then hit her in the right cheek with a closed fist. He also yelled at her that if she called the police, he would kill her. She then fled the residence and called the police. When the Fort Worth officers interviewed Ludwigson, he denied the assault, saying Leanne was lying. Her ex boyfriend was actually the one who had assaulted her. Police didn't believe him and arrested him again. I don't know how much jail time he did. That's a lot of law enforcement contact with this loser. Fort Worth police were all too familiar with Billy Wayne Ludwigson when they received an inquiry from Odessa PD and the Texas Rangers about this dude. He's all yours, I'm sure they said so. Ludwigson was prosecuted by the State of Texas for Velma's murder. He was represented by Jason Leach. Judge Den wallen of the 70th Ector County District Court presided over the case. I don't know what took so long. Other than Covid and various motions and psychological evaluations of the defendant. There was at least one defense motion for examination recompetency. There were at least three court order psychological evaluations of Ludwigson, and there were all sorts of motions and hearings. Ludwigson must have at one point been found incompetent to stand trial because there was a competency restoration referral form filed in the court materials I reviewed, I suspect just like every other time in his life in which he'd gotten in trouble, he lied and tried to manipulate his assessors into feeling sorry for him. Apparently, he claimed to hear voices and things. Anyway, on December 16, 2023, Ludwigson was deemed by the court to be mentally competent to stand trial and within months he took a guilty plea. On August 9, 2024, now 62 year old, Ludwigson pleaded guilty to first degree murder. Per the agreement his attorney had struck with the state. He was sentenced to 20 years in a Texas Department of Criminal justice prison. He received a credit of 1,470 days for the four years he spent awaiting trial. First Assistant Ector County DA Greg Barber told the Odessa American Online. Quote, The Ector County DA's office worked up the case despite the issues involved in trying to prosecute a homicide that occurred 42 years ago. With the approval of the victim's family, the state and defense agreed to a 20 year plea agreement that was approved by the court. No statement was made by Ludwigson. Texas Ranger Jeff Strains report states that as of April 23, 2025, no further investigation is anticipated and the Department of Public Safety and Odessa police cases are both closed. Okay, so what did happen between Ludwigson and Velma? There is a lot we don't know. We obviously cannot get a straight story out of Ludwigson. I asked Ranger Strain if he felt that Ludwigson was watching Velma, knew her patterns and knew that she walked to the mall alone in the darkness every morning. But the Ranger doesn't believe, and I agree, that Ludwigson was organized and patient enough to essentially stalk Velma. He seems like a very disordered offender who was all over the place with his crimes, victimizing both young and old, both male and female. I think that for whatever reason, a drug deal, stealing something, who knows. Ludwigson found himself outside the Permian Mall at 4:45 in the morning and along came Velma. I cannot for the life of me figure out why Ludwigson was armed with what was described as a steak knife. Unless he was planning a different crime that evening or that's just what he carried. Apparently the smaller knife found at the scene was Velma's own pocket knife. Anyway, Velma walked along the roadway toward the mall and Ludwigson approached her from behind, whacked her on the head with the knife handle and maneuvered her into the ditch and then the culvert. Once they were out of sight and hidden from view of anyone who happened to come by, he stabbed Velma as she was still standing when she went down. He opened her coat and then took off her pants and underwear and opened her blouse. He did whatever he did to her, leaving semen on her coat, and then stood up and perhaps grabbed the side of the culvert, smearing blood on it. He then partially redressed Vilma for reasons unknown and rifled her purse, perhaps finding the pocket knife. Then he left the culvert the way he had come, leaving two drops of blood near the entrance, which would later be found by detectives, but unfortunately not collected. He walked hastily away from the scene and was seen by Sally as she drove to work. When investigators showed up at his door decades later, Ludwigson showed what a pathetic little weasel he is by making up the story about his buddy Moore, quote, making him do it for that is what the investigators believe, that he made it up out of whole cloth. Who knows why his twisted mind went to Moore at that moment? Ranger Strain believes that Ludwigson was doing what he always did when he got caught red handed, deflecting the blame, protesting that he was wronged and and generally acting like a pitiful coward. As is so often the case in these stories, the specter of the elusive killer is so much grander than he turns out to be in reality, a banal loser who victimized a 64 year old woman to boost his ego and get his rocks off. Enjoy Prison Billy wayne Ludwigson After 42 years, Thelma Nesset's case is closed thanks to IGG and if you are one of the bad guys, they are coming for you. Thank you so much to Jeff Strain, the unsolved crimes investigation program Rager for Company E for being so patient with me pestering him about this case. Recently, I let listeners know about a new benefit available to them called an ABJAC Insider Subscription that's available through Apple Podcasts. An ABJAC Insider Subscription will give listeners ad free access to every bit of DNA ID content published both past episodes and future episodes. It will also give you benefits like early access and bonus content. Head over to Apple Podcasts and click on the DNAID show page or the ABJAC Entertainment Channel to start a free trial. Thanks for listening to this episode of dnaid. 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