Hour 4: David Shoemaker joins the show

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg: July 29, 2026 – Why Hulk Hogan Matters (with David Shoemaker)

Episode Overview

This episode features a deep and candid conversation with David Shoemaker, wrestling historian and author of the new book Why Hulk Hogan Matters. The trio – ESPN New York legend Don La Greca, sportswriter Alan Hahn, and hip-hop and WWE personality Peter Rosenberg – dig into Shoemaker’s personal and cultural reflections on Hulk Hogan, the complexity of separating the character from the man, and why Hogan remains a central, contentious figure in wrestling and American pop culture. The tone is reflective, insightful, and at times humorous as the hosts weave in personal anecdotes, wrestling lore, and broader cultural commentary.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Does Hulk Hogan Matter?

• (01:06-02:22)
  • Shoemaker explains that pondering Hogan’s legacy is complex, especially since his death a year prior forced fans to confront mixed emotions: “It's a person who you have such great memories of and a person who you have such terrible memories of at the same time. It's just incredibly difficult to parse through.” (David Shoemaker, 01:21)
  • The book isn’t a linear biography but a meditation on key moments in Hogan’s career and their impact on Shoemaker personally, on wrestling, and on American culture. He uses writing as a way to process his own conflicted feelings about the man and the myth.

2. Personal Impact and Generational Influence

• (02:22-03:21)
  • Shoemaker admits, “He is the reason I watch pro wrestling,” noting that many in his generation became fans because of Hogan's charisma and dominance.
  • Hogan is positioned as a generational touchpoint, a way for wrestling fans to analyze how we reconcile disappointment in heroes: “He's the point of comparison for processing your sort of disappointment in your heroes.” (David Shoemaker, 02:52)

3. The Difficulty of Separating Character and Man

• (03:21-08:15)
  • Don points out the unique challenge for wrestling fans in dealing with the revelations about Hulk Hogan’s racism and problematic behavior: “It really became hard to separate... Hogan was he never seemed to get really comfortable with Terry Bollea, the man… It just never really worked anymore.” (Don Hahn, 03:55)
  • Shoemaker expands on this, comparing Hogan to Ric Flair: where Flair blended his real persona with his wrestling character, Hogan could never quite merge “HH” and Terry Bollea.
  • Memorable analogy: “Like, you got to heel. Got to let us know that this is Hulk tweeting. And we're just like, when does Terry tweet? Or, you know, like, I got to get to know. I want to know Terry a little bit better.” (David Shoemaker, 05:37)
  • The group discusses the nature of wrestling personas and the way fans project expectations onto real people playing larger than life roles.

4. Comparisons to Athletes in Other Sports

• (08:15-10:21)
  • One co-host likens Hogan to football legend Lawrence Taylor, reflecting on fandom and disillusionment: “Where I worshiped him as a football player but had no use for him as a man... But is it easier for you? Because in wrestling Hulk Hogan was supposed to be a character.” (Peter Rosenberg, 08:21)
  • Shoemaker: “Nobody sees Hulk Hogan at the airport and says, that's Terry Bolayo over there... Sometimes I think it's easier in, in sports to say, I hate this dude. But, man, look at the stats. Two sacks a game, you know.” (David Shoemaker, 08:58/09:03)
  • The wrestling business dilemma is unique: fans, media, and even wrestlers blur the lines of kayfabe (fiction) and reality in ways far beyond conventional sports.

5. Writing the Book & Wrestling History’s Unreliability

• (11:39-13:48)
  • Shoemaker describes his research process: “It's a lot more personal... If you read the first chapter, it's all about the unreliability of wrestling history... Everybody tries to put themselves over in the Hulk Hogan origin story.” (David Shoemaker, 12:08)
  • He highlights how narratives around Hogan often shift and overlap depending on perspective, reinforcing the mythic status and the confusion that comes with it.

6. Personal Anecdotes: Meeting Hogan

• (13:49-16:05)
  • The hosts reminisce about interviewing Hogan for the Cheap Heat podcast about twelve years ago, with Shoemaker sharing a hilarious, humanizing story:
    • “I came out of the stall and Hogan was in the bathroom putting in his hair extensions. And I was like, this is not the time to introduce myself to Hulk Hogan... that was maybe the most Terry Bollea moment I had ever seen.” (David Shoemaker, 15:01)
  • Another memory: after a high-energy interview where they felt they got original answers, they realized Hogan gave those same answers to every outlet on his media tour.
  • Don recounts bumping into Hogan at WrestleMania hotels and witnessing, within seconds, Hogan flipping into “the character,” even in casual conversation.

7. Reflections on Hogan’s Universality & Legacy

• (17:19-21:15)
  • Rosenberg reflects on Hogan’s cultural impact, even on non-wrestling fans: “He transcended wrestling. Everybody knows who he is, and I think there's a lot of interesting things about that.” (Peter Rosenberg, 17:19)
  • They discuss how, at his peak, Hogan’s matches against figures like The Iron Sheik were major cultural events: “That was like an NFL playoff game at our house. Like, my dad is even into it. It was a big deal.” (Peter Rosenberg, 20:48)
  • They highlight that, regardless of wrestling fandom, Hogan represents a shared American pop culture touchstone.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Hogan as Duality:

  “You got to kind of hold two things in your mind at one time, which is never a fun answer... He's the reason I watch wrestling and he's now the reason that I can... process... disappointment in your heroes.”
  — David Shoemaker (02:25)

• On Reality vs. Persona:

  “It was so notable that he would sign his tweets HH... Like, you got to let us know this is Hulk tweeting. When does Terry tweet?”
  — David Shoemaker (05:37)

• On the Impossible Standard of the 'American Hero':

  “Nobody could be the icon that Hogan proclaimed himself to be... But he probably did as well as anybody could do in that position at sort of maintaining it.”
  — David Shoemaker (07:00)

• On Meeting Hogan:

  “I came out of the stall and Hogan was in the bathroom putting in his hair extensions... That was maybe the most Terry Bollea moment I had ever seen.”
  — David Shoemaker (15:01)

• On Contemporary Interest:

  “He transcended wrestling. Everybody knows who he is, and I think there's a lot of interesting things about that.”
  — Peter Rosenberg (17:19)

• On Wrestling’s National Moment:

  “That was like an NFL playoff game at our house. Like, my dad is even into it. It was a big deal.”
  — Peter Rosenberg (20:48)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Book Introduction & Why Hogan Matters: 01:06–02:22
• Shoemaker’s Personal Take & Complexity of Fandom: 02:22–03:21
• Separating Man and Myth; Hogan vs. Ric Flair: 03:21–08:15
• Comparisons with Other Athletes (Lawrence Taylor): 08:15–10:21
• Wrestling History’s Myths & Researching the Book: 11:39–13:48
• Personal Anecdotes: Interviewing & Meeting Hogan: 13:49–16:05
• Hogan’s Pop Culture Impact & Reflections: 17:19–21:15

---

Additional Notes

• The conversation often circles back to the tension between adulation and criticism, how fans process personal failings in celebrity icons, and what can be learned from the dissonance.
• Shoemaker’s book is explicitly inspired by Why Sinatra Matters and seeks to capture not just the highlights, but the entire arc – including the discomfort and disappointments – of Hogan’s life and career.
• The tone of the discussion is conversational, self-aware, and honest, with the hosts gently ribbing each other and sharing personal stories.

---

Takeaway

Even for those with no interest in wrestling, this episode provides a nuanced examination of American celebrity, the merging of persona and identity, and the complex emotions tied to generational heroes fallen from grace. Shoemaker's reflections, grounded in both scholarship and deeply personal experience, offer insights into why larger-than-life figures like Hulk Hogan still matter to so many – even, and especially, when their legacies become complicated.

Transcript

[Commercial Announcer]

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[David Shoemaker]

this is the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

That sounds like heaven to me.

[David Shoemaker]

Listen live weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New

[Don Hahn]

York app and your smart speakers. Very excited that my good friend and the brilliant author, one of the great wrestling historians truly out there in the world today, is my good friend David Shoemaker. And today his book why Hulk Hogan Matters is now available for purchase. Shu, congrats on the book. It's Peter and Don. How are you?

[David Shoemaker]

I'm doing great, guys. So much. So grateful for you to have me on today.

[Don Hahn]

So first and foremost, for people out there listening who have heard many different things, positive and negative about Hulk Hogan over the last several years, without giving away the entire book, why does Hulk Hogan matter?

[Commercial Announcer]

Shoe.

[David Shoemaker]

I think that you sort of, in a sense, answer it with the question, right? You're thinking about somebody. And of course, this all stems from his death a year ago, right, where we wrestling fans have to sort of figure out how we feel. It's a person who you have such great memories of and a person who you have such terrible memories of at the same time. It's just incredibly difficult to parse through. And so I wrote his obituary and I said, this feels weird. This is the last time I'm ever gonna write about Hulk Hogan. I don't know if I've really worked through this. And then the idea of doing a book came up and I was like, okay, I should probably do it. It's not like a big, it's not a book of history. It's not a straight biography. It's more of just some big moments in Hulk Hogan's career and sort of processing how I felt about him through those moments and what he means to, to Americans, to the world and to wrestling fans and to me personally. And sort of writing that last chapter was, you know, a real experience.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

So what does he mean to you personally?

[David Shoemaker]

Well, you got to kind of hold two things in your, in your mind at one time, which is never a fun answer, right? I mean, to me, he is the reason I watch pro wrestling. I mean, just, he's Literally the reason a lot of wrestling fans of my age, my generation, have the same experience. It's like one day we were just watching wrestling and Hulk Hogan was the champion. And it's not like we were all like die hard WWF fans before he was there. He just brought in the crowd. And as he progressed with his career, as he turned heel in wcw, started the nwo, he maintained a relevance that was greater than any other pro wrestler. And then his post career is kind of post retirement life took a real left turn. And it's to me, he. What does he mean to me? He. He's the reason I watch wrestling and he's now the reason that I can, like, process. He's the point of comparison for processing your sort of disappointment in your heroes.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, I thought I told you this last time I saw you, but your obit was. Was brilliant. I thought you really did a great job just trying to work through all the emotions we have because it was such a complicated thing. I always said it was obviously a complicated thing for black fans, to wrestling fans to work through, but frankly, it was a complicated thing for all fans who care about and are offended by racism to work through. The end of Hulk's life was so abhorrent. The things that he said or the things that Terry Bollea said that there was. It really became hard to separate. And one of the things Shu that I always thought was fascinating about Hogan was he never seemed to get really comfortable with Terry Bolaya, the man and Ric Flair and Richard Fleer merged into one person, warts and all. And when he goes into a wrestling ring or he shows up at a convention or he does an interview, you get the glamour and glitz of Ric Flair, the character, and you sort of get the insecure guy who struggled with substances and things of that nature. It's all in there. And I think the wrestling world has said, we love you, Ric Flair, including all of those things. Did you get into in the book at all that Hogan never seemed quite comfortable with Terry Bollea, which is why he ended up coming out. And over the last many years, when we saw him kind of became a caricature, still wearing the hairpiece and the gimmick. It just never really worked anymore.

[David Shoemaker]

No, I mean. And part of that was him trying to go back, trying to recapture the glory of the late 80s, you know, trying to rediscover what made Hulk Mania work. And as WWE history since he departed has shown us, it's impossible to recapture that. Right. It would be impossible for him to do it on its own. I think that it's funny that you mentioned he was never comfortable with Terry Bolay. I totally agree. I always think it's so. It was so notable that he would sign his tweets HH the way that, like, Hillary Clinton would sign her initials at the bottom of hers if she really wrote the tweet, as opposed to, you know, it being somebody else's tweet.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[David Shoemaker]

Like, you got to heal. Got to let us know that this is Hulk tweeting. And we're just like, what. When does Terry tweet? Or, you know, like, I got to get to know. I want to know Terry a little bit better. All of the old timers, all of anybody that had a career like, anywhere near the scale of Hulk Hogan deals with this phenomenon that you discuss, where the real and the false sort of, like, become one or become indistinguishable. And that's true even for people like Hogan. I don't know if it's him being uncomfortable with the real man. I think for him, it's just not knowing where the line is. I think Ric Flair, like you said, just embraced it with open arms, like, yeah, I am Ric Flair now. Like, everything. All my. All the negatives about me are part of my character. And it's really difficult for Hulk Hogan, who was the universal icon. He was Mr. America for so long. You know, once you kind of lose your fastball, I don't know how you rediscover that well.

[Don Hahn]

And I also wonder, like, if it just popped into my head as you were saying it. I wonder if it was easier for Flair to become flair, because when his whole thing was being the limousine riding, jet flying, son of a gun kissing all the girls, he was actually also living that. Whereas Hulk Hogan's character of being the perfect role model for kids, I think that was sort of always a lie.

[David Shoemaker]

Say your prayers, eat your vitamins. Yeah, he left a few things out of the.

[Don Hahn]

Exactly. And I wonder if that's the dilemma

[David Shoemaker]

when Rick would get into the ring at local lighthouse shows and say, we're drinking at the Ramada after this, you know, and that was just the truth, you know, I mean, like, everybody went back to the bar, and you're right. Hogan had to be something that nobody could be looking back. Now, you say, was he ever anything close to that? But. But I think it's. I mean, I think it's fair to say that, like, nobody could be the icon that Hogan proclaimed himself to be. And he probably did a lot as. As well as Anybody could do in that position at sort of maintaining it. But, you know, it's, it's, it's just, it's always a tough line to walk. I wrote about in the book my buddy was saw Hogan at an airport during his peak in the late 80s and to. And now, you know, every other wrestlers complain about people stopping them in airports. Well, Hogan had this figured out in like 1988. He just stared at the ceiling as he was walking through and just said Hercules, Hercules over and over again just to act like he was so obsessed with his then house show opponent that he couldn't be bothered and everybody left him alone, you know. But yeah, but it's, it's really, it's tough. The line between reality and, you know, kayfabe or unreality, whatever, is just really. It's a bizarre life that all the wrestlers live.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

You know, David, I'm not a wrestling fan, but my Hulk Hogan was Lawrence Taylor.

[David Shoemaker]

Yeah.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

Where I worshiped him as a football player but had no use for him as a man. He separated by saying there was Lawrence Taylor and there was lt. But in football you knew that was a joke. You knew that was him just trying to separate the two. But I couldn't really separate the two because LT wasn't a character. Football player's not a character. But is it easier for you? Because in wrestling Hulk Hogan was supposed to be a character. So can you separate? Can you, can you still have Hulk Hogan be your hero and just throw all the negative at Terry Belay?

[David Shoemaker]

Yeah, I mean, the thing is nobody sees Hulk Hogan at the airport and says, that's Terry Bolayo over there. Great point. I mean he's always, if you're out in public, you're always Hogan. The football thing is really interesting. I mean, Lawrence Taylor is a great comparison. And there have been a lot of players in the, in the past decade or so who have had various indiscretions in their personal life or cat catastrophes or whatever you want to label it. And the team has to sort of weigh like, is the on field production worth the blowback? You know, and, and every time it's a different calculus. You know, I think there's obviously a lot less of that in the 80s and even in the 90s and stuff. So Hogan, I don't think had to deal with that sort of coming face to face with his, with his sins early on. And his downfall was a very modern situation. Right. I mean, it was a sex tape leaked to a blog, you know, and that began the whole thing. But Yeah, I mean, it's, it's. I don't know. Sometimes I think it's easier in, in sports to say, I hate this dude. But, man, look at the stats. Two stacks, two sacks a game, you

[Don Hahn]

know,

[David Shoemaker]

and, and sometimes as, you know, person by person, we just can't deal with it. There's a lot of other wrestlers who fit into that category. We talk about Chris Benoit at the time. I won't go into it, but it's like some people never speak his name and some people are trying to figure out why. And most people lie somewhere in between. You know, it's always tough.

[Don Hahn]

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[David Shoemaker]

from First Call to final invoice, Servicetitan

[Don Hahn]

is the only integrated intelligence that automates your entire workflow. Built for visionaries ready to stop operating and start automating their success. AI for the trades, we're talking to David Shoemaker, whose book why Hulk Hogan Matters is out today. Did you, did you go out and speak to anyone for new interviews about this book? Or was it based all on interviews you've already done? Conversations with friends, personal memories, et cetera?

[David Shoemaker]

It's a lot more personal. I did actually talk to a lot of people along the way just to sort of. There's A couple of things. A couple of historical facts I tried to clean up. But if you read the first chapter, it's all about the, Like, Hulk Hogan becoming a wrestler and the total unreliability of wrestling history. Right. There are a lot of great writers out there that do a lot of really hard work writing wrestling history. This is not that sort of book. But because it acknowledges that everybody in there, everybody has a different version of Hulk Hogan's origin story. And usually it involves the storyteller being at the center. Right? It was like. Like multiple people are like, I was Hulk Hogan's first opponent, you know, and people are like, oh, I was the one that introduced Hulk Hogan to Hiro Matsuda. Everybody tries to put themselves over in the. In the Hulk Hogan origin story. And so you have five different stories that you sort of. That converge into one, and you try to suss out the truth or you just shrug your shoulders. But I talked to a lot of people as. As in the business, people that knew him, but I generally talk to them as wrestling fans, you know, and. Because that's where. That's where I was really wanting to come from with this. It's a shortish book, you know, like, I wasn't trying to do anything definitive, but, you know, the title is a reference to the great book, why Sinatra Matters. And. And. And that's sort of where I came from. It's like, you know, there's a lot to be learned about from Hulk Hogan, not just as he doesn't just matter because he was the great American hero, you know, he matters in some ways a lot more deeply because of the last act of his life and in the ways that it was that we were supposed to learn in this cartoon fashion about being an upstanding citizen from the early Hogan. I think we can learn a lot more real things about, you know, what Hulk Hogan became.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

Did you.

[Don Hahn]

Did you write about it all? And do you have any memories that I may not remember of our interviewing Hogan together? For people who may not know, Shoemaker, the original iteration of my wrestling podcast, Cheap Heat, was our wrestling podcast, Cheap Heat. Shoemaker now still does his show, the Masked man show, with the ringer. And of course, I now do Cheap Heat as of this week on WWE Radio.

[David Shoemaker]

But congratulations, by the way.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, thank you. Thank you. So did you write about and do you have any recollections I may not have from when we interviewed Hulk Hogan in LA10, 12 years ago, whenever that

[David Shoemaker]

was, which is crazy how long it is. I was wearing my Hulk, a size T Shirt, which was. I remember, Yeah, I think it was his attempt to own the IP when Hulkamania was taking off. And he didn't own it. And the first thing he said to me was, oh, you're the one who bought that shirt. No, the first. But. But I. But I actually encountered him, saw him before that. If you remember. We were sit. I did write about this in the book. We were sitting in the studio waiting and waiting and waiting for Hogan to show up at espn. And I was just sitting there thinking, God, I'm gonna have to pee before this interview's over. And as soon as they said, he's at the door, I made a dash for the bathroom because I was like, I have at least five or at least two minutes. Right. Except we didn't. The game of telephone went too fast. And I came out of the stall and Hogan was in the bathroom putting in his hair extensions. And I was like, this is not the time to introduce myself to Hulk Hogan. Because that was maybe the most Terry Bollea moment I had ever seen.

[Don Hahn]

Wow.

[David Shoemaker]

Right? It was the most human I'd ever seen. This guy, he was absolutely quiet, almost sad faced, and just very like slow motion putting his costume on, you know, to be Hulk Hogan. And so I snuck out behind him. And then we met him for real, like two minutes later. Thank God he didn't see me. And thank God that now everybody knows I didn't wash my hands. But yeah, I mean, that was a real formative moment. I remember how excited we were. We were high fiving at the end of that interview because we got some questions, we got some answers from him that nobody had ever gotten before. And it felt like we really, really, like we had done something unique. And then he went out on the rest of his media tour and said the exact same things he said to us for the rest of the next day.

[Don Hahn]

By the way, that is. And that is the most quintessential Hogan thing. I mean, he. Don, I'm telling you, I. As the years went on and I would bump into him more, you know, somewhat frequently, he. Just to see how quickly he would go into character. I mean, I'm not kidding. There was a time shoe when I ran into him in the WrestleMania hotel in the hallway near the green room, and we're chatting for a moment and I was, hey, how are you enjoying the weekend? I don't.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

He.

[Don Hahn]

At this point, I think he's kind of like vaguely remembers my face and so is treating me like someone, you know, but without really knowing me.

[David Shoemaker]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

And at some point, within guys, within 90 seconds. So I lifted that big giant above my head, brother. And I'm like, are we really doing this? I was like, hulk, it's cool, man. I was gonna go grab a Diet Coke. Just saying hi, you know, it's just, it was always right there. But that, those are the things that make him so fascinating. That's why I'm so excited to read your book. Thank you for making a few minutes. I can't wait to read it, dude.

[David Shoemaker]

Oh, thank you guys so much for having me on.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

Oh, it was our pleasure.

[Don Hahn]

The great David Shoemaker, why Hulk Hogan matters. Again, a play on the title, Pete Hamill's famous book, why Sinatra Matters. That was fun. Thanks for letting us do that there, Don.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

No, that was really good. I'd be interested in reading the book because even if you're not a wrestling fan, you, you know, he's thunder lips or his what. What channel was his reality show that he transcended wrestling. Everybody knows who he is, and I think there's a lot of interesting things about that.

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[Don Hahn]

Shohei Ohtani's interpreter was fired today.

[David Shoemaker]

Ippei Mitsuhara ran up gambling debts to a Southern California bookmaking operation. The inside story of the biggest scandal in modern baseball.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

He was absolutely bananas.

[Commercial Announcer]

The amount of bets he was making,

[David Shoemaker]

I've never seen him like it. From 30 for 30 podcasts this is the Betrayal of Shohei Ohtani, presented by Gusto.

[Commercial Announcer]

New episodes available now. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[David Shoemaker]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want.

[Don Hahn]

Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. I want to see if I can get why Hulk Hogan matters in the store. I don't have time to order on the old Amazon, so I'd like to have it for my trip on Thursday. Just a really, really great writer, really conversational style, and Hogan is just such a fascinating character.

[David Shoemaker]

You're thinking at the Barnes and Noble.

[Don Hahn]

Well, that's what I was thinking about. Well, they have. There's a little strand up near me on the Upper west side.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

Ah.

[Don Hahn]

Because you never know. Now, when people say their book is out, does that mean you can get where? Yeah. Does that mean everywhere? And if I go to the books, you think if I go to the Strand website, they'll tell me if they have it in store?

[David Shoemaker]

They should.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

No, I'm gonna find out why you're worried.

[Don Hahn]

Well, I just want to. I was thinking, could I go buy the book rather than. Wait, there it is. The book pops up on the website.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

Well, if it's released, I'm sure it's in stores.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, the publisher's Harper. That's the real deal. That's no self publishing.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

No, I'm telling you, I'm not just saying it to be performative because we had him on. I would read that book. I told you that. Like when Hulk Hogan, like, wrestled back in the 80s when he took on what's his name? Why is my name escaping me? He's no longer with us. Make you humble.

[Don Hahn]

Sorry.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

Make you iron cheek.

[Don Hahn]

Make you humble.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

That was like an NFL playoff game at our house. Like, my dad is even into it. It was a big deal.

[David Shoemaker]

Excellent question.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

He's right. In the height of everything that was going on with Iran, it was just like. It was the perfect time. Like, Mr. Dunn, Maloney, I don't care how you feel about wrestling. You know who Hulk Hogan is.

[Don Hahn]

That's right.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

And I'd be very interested to read that. Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Apparently it's available at the Barnes and Noble up on the upper side. I might have to go. Stop. Stop and cop.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

He said it's not. It's not, you know, 600 pages. It's not my Cat Stevens book.

[David Shoemaker]

How's that going, by the way?

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

Yeah, how are you doing on that 286 page? 286. I'm about halfway. Lot going on a lot.

[Don Hahn]

It's a lot of book.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

I wanted to get it done before I went down the shore next week because I. Again, I don't know if we got room in the car for it,

[Don Hahn]

but now, will you. Is there a chance that you could read a book while you're down the shore?

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Don Hahn]

You'll have some time.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Okay. On the beach. Now, the kids are now old enough to entertain themselves. You don't have to play with them the whole time.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

Right. And they're also responsible enough that if they're by the water, not that I'd just let them out without watching them, but I could turn my back for a second and not know. Worry they, they're good swimmers and, and they know not to go too far out. But. No, but they'll be. There'll be moments just quietly after the kids go to bed, go on the deck, get a beer.

[Don Hahn]

Oh, like a gentleman. Yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe smoke a cigar. Based on what we saw at the

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

beach bash, you know you saw that attempt, right? I. I took a couple of puffs. I wasn't all in.

[Don Hahn]

I'm just saying it's a, it's a, you know, just be careful. Slippery slope, is it. It's not crack. That's another drop for tomorrow. It happens, right? See, I work hard all day and then Don not even trying at the end of the show.

[David Shoemaker]

That's what makes him him.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

I really don' Maloney

[Don Hahn]

think about that. I'm trying so hard.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

That's the problem. Maybe you shouldn't try so hard.

[Don Hahn]

You know what? You're right.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

Just be yourself and it'll just happen.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. And I'll say things like, it's not crack.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

All right. Yankees play tonight. Mets have the doubleheader tomorrow. So at 3 o' clock, we're going to be on the app and YouTube only then joined by 880. A little bit later on, before game two of the double header between the Mets of the Braves, we'll have another day at camp to talk about. We'll have a list like you read about. It's my last. It's my last list before my vacation down the shore. So we'll have a lot of fun. A couple of ideas rattling around in my head.

[Don Hahn]

Bring it tomorrow.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

Welcome back. See you tomorrow at 3:00'. Clock. Right here, Don Han and Rosenberg on ESPN New York.

[Don Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man.

[David Shoemaker]

I just want to know it's good.

[Don Hahn]

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter. Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8

[David Shoemaker]

80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app.

[Don Hahn]

And your smart speakers. You know when you're locked in, focused and fearless.

[David Shoemaker]

Welcome to the wnba. Your visionary arrows. You can't look away. Every assist, every stop, every logo. Three from beyond the logo. Every. Did you see that moment? You bet. What records are going to be broken this season?

[Don Hahn]

All of it.

[Guest or Co-host (possibly Peter Rosenberg)]

Right here.

[David Shoemaker]

Lock in.

[Don Hahn]

It's the WNBA on ESPN all season long.