Hour 1: 21st Century NY Sports Mt. Rushmore

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 1: 21st Century NY Sports Mt. Rushmore

Date: June 16, 2026
Hosts: Alan Hahn, Don La Greca, Peter Rosenberg
Theme: Debating the “Mount Rushmore” of New York athletes in the 21st century, prompted by the Knicks winning their first NBA title in 53 years and Jalen Brunson’s ascendance.

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Episode Overview

The hosts dive into a spirited, wide-ranging debate: Who are the four most defining New York sports figures since 2001? The Knicks’ championship run and Jalen Brunson’s performance spark this “Mount Rushmore” conversation. The trio set strict twenty-first-century parameters while exploring the importance of championships, individual greatness, citywide impact, and recency bias. Alongside sports analysis, they riff on media etiquette, A-list encounters, and New York’s unique sports culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Knicks’ Championship & The Parade Weather Worries

(00:54 – 04:53)

• Celebration Mood: The city feels like “a town of champions,” poised for the long-awaited Knicks parade.
• Weather Jokes: Hahn and La Greca joke about obsessing over potential rain, noting, “If I told you at a 15% chance to live, you’re calling funeral parlors, right? So be optimistic. Everything broke the Knicks way.” (Don, 01:56)
• Humor in Adversity: Even if the parade gets rained on, “If I told the Knick fan that you are going to win the title… but at the parade…it’s going to be a monstrous rain… You’ll be like, sign me up, right?” (Don, 04:14)
• Privilege & Perspective: The hosts lampoon their own privilege: “We haven’t had a parade in 50 years and we’re all, look at us. How privileged we are with our parades.” (Alan, 03:35)

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2. Peter at Jalen Brunson’s Knicks Championship Party

(07:00 – 12:20)

• A-list Access: Rosenberg recounts receiving an invite from actor Skylar Astin to Brunson’s party, reflecting on how, as a media member but also a genuine fan, he could blend in without “soiling himself.”
• Media Etiquette: The hosts stress you don’t use party access to book guests:

  “If you want to literally be thought of as a narc and be escorted out, you go, ‘Hey, Jalen, I know you’re really tired…would you call the program tomorrow?’ You can’t do it.” (Michael, 09:39)

• On Brunson: “He just literally is exactly who you think he is—even in that moment, sunglasses on in the club…polite to everyone, kind, present.” (Michael, 08:43)

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3. Defining the 21st Century NY Sports Mount Rushmore

(13:08 – 22:32)

• Parameters Established: Only achievements from 2001 onwards count—no DiMaggio, Mantle, Lawrence Taylor, Mark Messier, etc.

  “21st century. So for people that don’t know, that’s 2001 to today…So it excludes 2000 because that technically was still the 20th century.” (Don, 13:53)

• Standouts & Debate Starters:
  • Jalen Brunson (NBA champ, Finals dominance): “The sheer significance of what he accomplished puts him on there.” (Don, 18:12)
  • Eli Manning (2 Super Bowls): “His NFC championship performances are legendary…beating an undefeated legendary Patriots…one of the most epic moments you can think of.” (Alan, 18:43)
  • Derek Jeter (2001–2014): Debate if his 21st-century Yankee career outshines Mariano Rivera’s or Aaron Judge’s.
  • Mariano Rivera: “Mo had no peer. Mo was in a suite and everybody else was the floor below…No one was a comp to Mo in the history of baseball.” (Don, 36:11)
  • Aaron Judge: Noted for historic regular seasons, but still seeking a championship.
  • Henrik Lundqvist: “He really has become sports royalty in New York…He was their best player. He was the reason they were good.” (Alan, 27:21; Don, 33:21)
• Championship Requirement? Is a title needed to be included? The city’s long drought complicates this: “There’s not going to be a lot to choose from if we make ‘you must have won a championship’ part of the equation right now.” (Don, 24:16)

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4. What Makes a NY Athlete Iconic?

(26:09 – 33:21)

• Buzz Factor:

  “There’s got to be a buzz about you in the city…the ‘walk through Penn Station’ test—how many would recognize you?” (Don, 27:19)

• Lundqvist’s Appeal: “When they put Henrik up [at Knicks games], they go crazy.” (Alan, 27:21)
• Recency Bias & City Impact: “Brunson…will be interesting how that ages. Because right now it seems like complete folly…Fast forward 20 years…there’s work to be done.” (Don, 28:00)
• Legacy vs. Longevity: “If 20 years from now someone comes along who helps the Knicks win three titles…that could be something that could knock Brunson off.” (Don, 30:29)

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5. Callers’ Mount Rushmore Lists and Additional Candidates

(33:31 – 46:15)

• Listener Dan’s List:
  • Jeter
  • Brunson
  • Judge
  • A-Rod (with justification for A-Rod’s peak)
  • Eli just outside: “He definitely was helped by the defenses…but rose past a Rod, Judge.”
• Hosts’ Responses:
  • The mutual dependency of Jeter and Mo: “Jeter doesn't have five championships without Mo.” (Don, 35:38)
  • A-Rod: “He did take the attention of the city. Negative or positive, he captured the city.” (Caller, 36:48)
• Callers debate whether you can have two Yankees: “Don't want to punish the Yankees for having multiple guys…but if you put both on, now you're limiting us to just two spots.” (Caller, 44:50)
• Historical Perspective: Championships can quickly change how athletes (even owners, like Dolan) are remembered:

  “We don’t even know how people will talk about Dolan in 20 years…Championships change everything.” (Michael, 38:06)

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6. Mount Rushmore, Symbolism, and All-Time Greats

(46:15 – 50:32)

• Mount Rushmore’s Purpose: Alan notes, “Washington represents birth…Jefferson, growth and expansion…Lincoln, preservation…Roosevelt, development of the US in the 20th century. If we did that, birth is Ruth.” (46:53)
• Old vs. Modern Bias: The hosts compare Mantle vs. DiMaggio, cultural impact, and how pop culture influences enduring legacy.
• Generational Shifts: “It’s generational, right? We all love Paul Simon. Mickey Mantle’s his idol. We all love Billy Crystal. Mickey Mantle’s his idol…Your dad worshipped Mickey Mantle.” (Don, 50:02)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “We had our first title in 53 years, but it rained during the parade.” (Alan, 03:41)
• “He just literally is exactly who you think he is—even in that moment…polite to everyone, kind, present.” (Michael on Brunson, 08:43)
• On Mo vs. Jeter: “Mo had no peer. Mo was in a suite and everybody else was the floor below…No one was a comp to Mo in the history of baseball. I can’t not put somebody out there.” (Don, 36:11)
• Testing citywide fame: “If they walk through Penn Station, how many people would recognize them?” (Don, 27:19)
• “This is not a moment, it’s a movement. That’s what it felt like because it really moved the whole city.” (Alan, 31:49)
• On predicting the future: “Let’s stay where our feet are and do it from right now…If this is what we’re putting together, it’s not about what’s coming.” (Alan, 31:58)

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Approximate Timestamps for Major Segments

• Parade weather debates & Knicks joy: 00:54–04:53
• Rosenberg at Brunson’s celebration – media etiquette: 07:00–12:20
• Setting the 21st century Mount Rushmore rules: 13:08–16:27
• Brunson/Eli/Jeter/Rivera/Judge/Lundqvist eligibility debate: 16:43–24:28
• Icon status, buzz, Penn Station test: 26:09–28:37
• Recency bias & legacy, what keeps you on Rushmore: 28:37–33:21
• Callers’ arguments and additional candidates: 33:31–46:15
• Mount Rushmore as American symbolism & all-time legends: 46:15–50:32

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Final Takeaways

• The hosts all agree: Jalen Brunson and Eli Manning are near-locks for New York’s 21st-century sports Mt. Rushmore.
• The last two spots are fiercely debated between Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Aaron Judge, and Henrik Lundqvist. Championship rings, citywide star power, individual greatness, and era-defining moments shape the discussion.
• Listeners are invited to join the debate—recency bias may influence Brunson’s current spot, but his breaking of the Knicks’ title drought is undeniably historic.
• There’s no fully objective answer, but the journey through citywide sports memories and what it means to “move the needle” in New York proves entertaining, contentious, and fun.

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Engaging Moments

• Humorous parade rain riffs: “Sign me up. Where do I get the urine?” (Alan, 04:29) (lighthearted, irreverent tone)
• Media-access humility: “We walk a weird line being in the world with these people—but you can’t ask them to come on the show.” (Michael, 09:39)
• Self-aware nostalgia: “For old guys like me and you, Alan, and soon to be Peter, 2001 feels like it’s five minutes ago.” (Don, 14:13)

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Summary captures the energy, wit, and sports insight of the episode—making it an ideal primer for anyone wanting to dive into the debate or simply relive the excitement of a championship summer in New York.

Transcript

[Alan Hahn]

This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability various 18 plus Todd.

[Don La Greca]

This isn't Vietnam.

[Michael Kay]

It's Radio Hanh.

[Alan Hahn]

I mean, he had a handful of twig and berries and Rosenberg.

[Michael Kay]

Everything about it was pure, unadulterated ass.

[Don La Greca]

This isn't North Dakota. This is New York.

[Alan Hahn]

This is Don Hahn and Rosenberg.

[Don La Greca]

The best threesome I've ever heard on

[Michael Kay]

ESPN New York and streaming live on YouTube. Oh, yeah, baby. You feel that, Alan?

[Alan Hahn]

I feel it.

[Michael Kay]

It's feeling like a town of champions. Two days away from a parade in with perfect weather outside. It's feeling like everything's happening.

[Alan Hahn]

Mm, it is nice out, but it's not gonna like what I'm hoping. And I'm watching the weather carefully because we're supposed to get some rain now, Thursday, Friday and that. Like this apartment. It's like no rain could ruin this parade.

[Michael Kay]

But literally nobody ever wants rain on their parade.

[Alan Hahn]

Nobody wants rain.

[Don La Greca]

Nobody wants. That's gonna just destroy everything.

[Alan Hahn]

First, I'm looking at Thursday. Oh, boy. 9am 15%.

[Michael Kay]

Okay.

[Alan Hahn]

All the way to noon.

[Michael Kay]

All the way to noon.

[Alan Hahn]

15%.

[Don La Greca]

Oh, that's not 15%. It's light. Dude, when I see 15%, it's like the party's on, man.

[Alan Hahn]

Is that a likelihood? What is the percentage?

[Michael Kay]

Dude, if 50 means it's 100% chance

[Alan Hahn]

of rain in 50% of the area.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, you're talking about 15 of the area.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, okay.

[Don La Greca]

If I told you at a 15% chance to live, you're calling funeral parlors, right? Come on, just be optimistic. Everything is broke the Knicks way. I'm going to present it to you in two different facets, okay? Number one, everything is broken the Knicks way, right? Whenever they needed the other team to lose, they lost. When they needed a bucket, they got a bucket, right? When they needed to catch a break, they caught a break. It's not going to rain. Or, hey, you caught every break. Guess what? The one thing, one break you don't get is rain on the parade. You take it, right?

[Alan Hahn]

And you know what? But it might actually, might be better. I would take. I would take light rain or just kind of overcast versus 90 degrees with humidity. Because then it just ruins it. Right? That's how I feel.

[Michael Kay]

Like I'm great.

[Don La Greca]

You know what?

[Alan Hahn]

Let it rain, baby.

[Michael Kay]

It's a great take from Alan. Like 9, no, 90 degrees with terrible humidity. I kind of like the madness of the rain. Perhaps more. No, at least like crisp and cool. Like, not like nasty and muggy.

[Don La Greca]

So, so basically what you're getting in instead of a ticker tape parade, you're getting a spitball parade. All the paper that's coming down is now going to rain down on you like wet toilet paper.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, no, that would suck. Whatever.

[Don La Greca]

You live with the community.

[Michael Kay]

Honestly, it truthfully doesn't matter at all.

[Alan Hahn]

Humidity is going to stick to you too. Whatever.

[Don La Greca]

There's going to be a parade. Worried about. Come on, man.

[Alan Hahn]

Look at, look at us. Look at us. Look at us. Worried about how our parade's going to go.

[Don La Greca]

But it rained.

[Alan Hahn]

Look at us, right? Look what we've become.

[Don La Greca]

Look what we've become.

[Michael Kay]

We haven't had a parade 50 years

[Alan Hahn]

and we're all, look at us. How privileged we are with our parades.

[Don La Greca]

We had our first title in 53

[Alan Hahn]

years, but it rained during the parade.

[Michael Kay]

I mean, sure, sure, it was a historic run where literally records were set. The world was shocked. We dominated the next best player in basketball. But that rain on the parade, it's like, why didn't bother, bro.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

If I even a real title. If I told the Knick fan that you are going to win the title, you're going to go 16 and three. You are going to have a 13 game winning streak of the postseason.

[Alan Hahn]

Damn.

[Don La Greca]

You're gonna come back from 29 points down in Game 4 of the NBA Finals. But at the parade, it's gonna be a monstrous rain and the guy sitting next to you is gonna urinate on your shoes. You'll be like, sign me up, right?

[Michael Kay]

Sign me up. Where do I get the urine?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. If you told me this in October. Yeah. Literally, I'd be like, is it cold or warm? You're right.

[Don La Greca]

If I told you before game five, you're like, yeah, I'm gonna roll the dice.

[Michael Kay]

No, you know what it would be? It would be. I don't know, guys. I don't know if I should drink the urine. Like, no, no. No one even said you had to drink the urine. I'm volunteering because that's how good it is.

[Don La Greca]

I'll bring a specimen bottle with me and let's go.

[Alan Hahn]

Look at, look at us whining about

[Michael Kay]

rain by the championship parade, by the way. I want. I want Jacob to prepare the name drop and the flex bomb.

[Alan Hahn]

But here we go. Okay.

[Michael Kay]

Last night, Don, you don't know this yet, but last night when I was leaving the program. Oh, and there's a drop. Anthony, if you're really good, there's a drop, famously about this person of Michael K. Just eviscerating them for no reason. Should you want to play it. I was leaving the program and my. My friend Skyler Aston texted me.

[Don La Greca]

Oh, that's Sean's brother.

[Michael Kay]

He is not related to Sean.

[Don La Greca]

Okay. He is the president of our union, by the way.

[Michael Kay]

By the way. I respect him. All hail the chief. But he is an actor. They are in the same.

[Don La Greca]

Rudy.

[Michael Kay]

Rudy and. And Skyler. Skyler is a great actor and a been a. Him and I have been tight now for like five, six, seven years. One of my LA wrestling friends, we've just. We've become really, really cool. And now he moved here, so now I see him more. And Alan, I'm sure you see him because he is. He sings the anthem at the guard like 10 times a year.

[Alan Hahn]

But I also know him because my kids watch his movies.

[Michael Kay]

Oh, they love Pitch Perfect.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh my God.

[Don La Greca]

More than Ryan Ruko? I doubt it.

[Michael Kay]

You know what? Yeah, exactly.

[Don La Greca]

Travels with Ryan.

[Caller]

Loves it.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah, it's, you know, by the way. Well, hey, by the way, I want to give a shout out.

[Caller]

To whom?

[Michael Kay]

My buddy, Skyler Astin.

[Don La Greca]

What is a dumb name?

[Alan Hahn]

He was in that mood that day.

[Don La Greca]

We haven't heard that. That day. Every day.

[Michael Kay]

That's every day. Anytime I mention the name of anyone who he didn't know, that's what a dumb name.

[Don La Greca]

So first thing, first thing out of the.

[Michael Kay]

By the way, by the way, great salt on earth guy.

[Don La Greca]

So anyways, million dollars of charity, like he's.

[Michael Kay]

It doesn't matter.

[Don La Greca]

God, stupid name.

[Alan Hahn]

I want to meet him one day. Peter, arrange, please, please.

[Michael Kay]

Maybe he comes up tomorrow because he is a. He is a hardcore, hardcore Knicks fan. Like I said, sings the national anthem all the time. Does a lot with the Knicks. He hits me up yesterday and goes, hey, my wife isn't able to go. Any interest in rolling with me tonight to Jalen Brunson's party?

[Alan Hahn]

No drop.

[Don La Greca]

Oh, I drive a Dodge Stratus.

[Michael Kay]

I said, you know, normally on a Monday night I'm a stay at home kind of guy.

[Don La Greca]

Sure.

[Michael Kay]

And I'm going to go ahead and say yes, let's. Let's do this. And guys, this meant not leaving the house. It didn't start till after 10 o'. Clock. So this means, like. And we didn't get there 11. So this is, this is a big commitment for a. A father of a 17 month old at 46 years old. Anyways, what a great time. What a cool thing to get to be a fly on the wall on. And I know there are listeners of ours who hate my guts right now that of all the people who got to hang at the party, it was me. But guess what? I have news for you folks. I'm exactly the person to be there. Because I got to tell you guys, hardcore Knicks fans couldn't handle themselves. They couldn't have done it, Don. You know what I'm saying? There are people who, if they were there, wouldn't have been able to contain themselves. Whereas because I'm just happy and enjoying the whole thing, I can dap them up and say, congrats, Hell of a run without soiling myself.

[Don La Greca]

They say they'd have to wear a hazmat suit to protect the other people at the party, not to protect themselves.

[Michael Kay]

So before you get mad at me, before you get mad at me, listeners, just think about if you would have been able to take it because it was everybody, the entire team was there, all partying, having a great time. You know, I'll say this, Allen, I'd never met Brunson. He put you over, said you're a great guy. He's a big Alan Hahn guy. No surprise there. He. It was the first time I've ever interacted with Brunson in any way. And I. He just literally is exactly who you think he is.

[Don La Greca]

All right.

[Michael Kay]

Even in that moment, sunglasses on in the club at 11 o' clock at night, time of his life, polite to everyone, kind present. All of the things Kat and I spoke. Kat was lovely as well. Exactly what you think.

[Don La Greca]

Can I pretend?

[Michael Kay]

Great group.

[Don La Greca]

I'm gonna pretend to be every program director and producer we've ever had.

[Michael Kay]

Go ahead.

[Don La Greca]

Okay. Did you ask any of them to come on the show? Did you tell them about Don Hydrant Reserve? Did you ask him to come on? And I know the answer, and the answer is no, because that would be the exact opposite of what you should do.

[Michael Kay]

Thank you. Thank you. They asked me at the morning show today, Laura. I don't remember who asked me, but, oh, no. I think my camera guy, Bascom was like, did you tell anyone to come on elr?

[Alan Hahn]

I went, guys, that's not what you do.

[Michael Kay]

We're already people like us media people. We have this weird line we walk of like, we're in the world with these people. But because we're media, we're seen as. Oh, you got to be careful because, like, they're here. If you want to literally be thought of as a narc and be escorted out, you go, hey, Jalen, I know you're really tired, but you're friends with Alan. Do you think you could call the program tomorrow? We'd love to get you on for a segment that will. I mean, you can't do it. You can't do it.

[Don La Greca]

That being said, if he asked.

[Caller]

If he.

[Don La Greca]

If he asked for ELR before us, should we feel away about that, hypothetically?

[Michael Kay]

Well, I didn't. I didn't do either, because I know

[Alan Hahn]

he knows not to do it, and I.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

You.

[Alan Hahn]

You know I know not to do it.

[Michael Kay]

No, he knows.

[Alan Hahn]

But full disclosure, he knows we have a show.

[Michael Kay]

Of course he does.

[Alan Hahn]

Quite aware of the show.

[Michael Kay]

Goddamn right.

[Alan Hahn]

It's. It's. It's one of those things that you just. He loves that guy. Thursday. These are things you don't do. That's all.

[Don La Greca]

You don't. But there's people that don't realize there's things you don't.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah, they're called program directors. Alan's right. It's every. Don's right. It's every one of them. Well, did you at least talk to them and see if they'll come on?

[Alan Hahn]

No. You and Peter, I think, Don, you probably know this as well. Those things happen organically. It's usually like when you're into a. You get a debate on something, and it's like, show me something. Call in the show. Fight me on it. Like, that's usually how you do it. You do it like a. Show me something.

[Don La Greca]

Call into my show if there's.

[Alan Hahn]

You won't do it, and then you get them to do it.

[Michael Kay]

That's right.

[Don La Greca]

I wanted Jack Hughes on after the Golden Goal. You know what I did? I text the PR director. That's what you do.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. You're supposed to do.

[Don La Greca]

Because Jack and I are cool. We wouldn't be cool anymore if I was angling to get him on.

[Michael Kay]

And I'll tell you what. Even. Even offer.

[Alan Hahn]

They usually have to offer. Then that's what makes.

[Don La Greca]

If he came to me and said, man, I was listening to the show, man, how do you get on that show? Then I'd be an idiot not to say, give him the number.

[Michael Kay]

Even. Even. Even. Like, the artists that I've known, I have some that at this moment, I have artist friends I've known for 15 years. I broke Their records on the radio. We have a great relationship.

[Don La Greca]

You broke the Kendrick Lamar right there.

[Michael Kay]

Well, you know, Kendrick, I can't take credit for breaking, but I was an early adopter. Thank you, Don. But some that I did. L will tell you, oh, first person who, first person ever played my record. I'll never forget it. I was listening to Rosenberg. People like that. I still literally at this moment, as we speak, I am sitting there with text on red because I'm like, hey, want to call on the show? Like there is a thing about getting people to do your show that is just a thing. I don't know why, but I will say again. Awesome. Got to have a nice commander's conversation with Josh Hart. Did all, did all the things command. What, what a cool, what a cool group, man. What a, what a cool group and what a cool moment for this city. It really did. It's a time.

[Alan Hahn]

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[Don La Greca]

delivery well, we are starting to get now to the post mortem part where you bask in the glow. And the analysis is now over. We're not to the point of can they repeat or what they need to do to repeat, but I think it's a fun week of conversations of just placement. Right? Because I'm hearing, I was listening to a lot of the station today, I was out and about and we've got this thing going on ESPN New York of the Mount Rushmore, we do that all the time and where Brunson lies and all that. And I'm up for having that debate. But I think we got to lay some parameters, guys, because if you're going to say in the history of New York sports, then forget Brunson, forget eli, you're putting DiMaggio, mantle. No. Then you take the fun out of it.

[Caller]

Right?

[Don La Greca]

And what we did today, and you probably seen it going around, social media is in the 21st century. So for people that don't know, that's 2001 to today. So it excludes 2000 because that technically was still the 20th century.

[Alan Hahn]

So the dynasty is excluded. The Yankee dynasty excluded.

[Don La Greca]

They're excluded. No, and I don't think purposely, it's just, I think, hey, you gotta go in the century. We're 25 years into. We're a quarter into the 21st century. Yeah. And a lot's happened over the last 25 years. And I think it makes it a lot more fun to see who those four would be. Some big guns are out of there. No Lawrence Taylor. No. No Mark Messier. I mean, there's a lot of guys taken out because you look, you know, for old guys like me and you, Alan, and soon to be Peter, 2001 feels like it's five minutes ago.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, I still think so.

[Don La Greca]

This radio station, here's another part of the symmetry of the Mount Rushmore. You could say, you know, since the station began, we started in 2001. So we've been a lot. We've been alive for all this station, for all of this in the history

[Alan Hahn]

of ESPN New York.

[Michael Kay]

That's a good idea.

[Don La Greca]

There you go. So we started September 3, 2001. So that includes, you know, with the Yankees and you know, going to the World Series. And so it excludes the Giants Super bowl in 2000, but it does include two Super Bowls. Yankees have been to a few World Series and won a title in that span of time. So I. And listen, the Rangers have been to a Stanley cup final in that span of time. The jets have gone two back to back championship games. The Devils, Devils have a cup. A cup in that span, 2000.

[Alan Hahn]

Three appearances or two appearances in the Cup Final.

[Don La Greca]

Three appearances.

[Alan Hahn]

Three. Right.

[Don La Greca]

Well, 2001, 2003, 2012. So three Cup Final appearances. They lost to Colorado because they're. Again, their cup was 2,000. That's right. That's the 20th century. So if we put those kind of parameters on it, I think it's a fun conversation. I like it to have. So you up for this now? We're gonna have to constantly remind everybody because then we're gonna get phone calls from people. Why is it Lawrence Taylor on the list? People don't read and people don't pay attention. But for the people that do and that's the kind of show you want to angle towards the people that understand, smart people, that those should be the parameters. Right. And listen, I'm not even. I'm not here to say you got to win a championship. I don't think you have to. I just think the significance. I think we get a real healthy debate who those four individuals should be in the last 25 years.

[Alan Hahn]

I like it. I've already seen it, too, because I retweeted it because I said maybe. So I did like a future one, because right now, what we have is Brunson, Eli Manning, and Derek Jeter. Then there's an empty space.

[Don La Greca]

Right?

[Alan Hahn]

And my contribution, because I'm thinking of somebody who's next. And my contribution was Matthew Schaefer. Because if you're looking at somebody that could be a league superstar, not just a local one, but somebody that could be somebody that, like, he already has. He's already won the Calder. He's going to be a Norris Trophy winner one day. Norris Trophy, best defenseman in the league. And if the Islanders build right, he could be a Stanley cup champion. He's that good of a player that you want to build around to win a championship with. And so I just submitted him as a potential future name, like a prospect.

[Don La Greca]

That's a whole nother conversation.

[Alan Hahn]

Right, Right.

[Don La Greca]

So the next four, you know, like ESPN had the next conversation every year. Yeah, that could be a fun one. But for the one that exists of the last 25 years, who belongs on that? Mount Rushmore. Now, what was tweeted out is to me, I don't know how you guys feel. We're not looking for one to add to the three. We're going to debate whether those three

[Alan Hahn]

should be on fair.

[Don La Greca]

And we're going to come up with our four.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay?

[Don La Greca]

And it'll be the Don Hanna, Rosenberg. And our listeners will come to a consensus at some point at the end of the show. Who are four in the last 25 years now? Now, maybe Jeter. Here's the thing about Jeter. A lot happened before 2001 for Derek Jeter.

[Alan Hahn]

True.

[Don La Greca]

You know, the 96 championship, the. His MVP came in a 2000 World Series, which we would not count.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Don La Greca]

It's really from 2001 till when his career ended in 2014.

[Alan Hahn]

Now, keep in mind, the bulk of his career was played in this century.

[Don La Greca]

The bulk of his career. But no question, Jeter, the best of his career, if you take his whole career. But if you just took from 2001 on, we can have the debate, because I can make the case that Mo had a better 21st century than Jeter did. Maybe both of them belong. Now this is all based on Brunson. And you know, I think just the sheer significance of what he accomplished puts him on there.

[Alan Hahn]

No, I would think so because it is a championship. It ended a long drought. He played magnificently in the final, averaged over 30 point, 32 points a game. He averaged. And then the 45 point road closeout, like there's too many things to put there to not think. And this guy's been all NBA now for what, three years? Not just all star, all NBA. So with all that in mind, he's already had a hell of a run here. So I do think you put him on that. I think Eli's got two Super Bowls. His, his, his NFC championship performances are, are legendary. He is part of two epic throws that led to beating, you know, winning the Super Bowl. And then on top of it, they also them taking down the Patriots. 2007 to me is still I like right now. I have a hard time putting that even ahead of this year's Nick run. The Nick run was phenomenal. But beating an undefeated legendary Patriots team in the super bowl to end their undefeated season is, to me that's, that's one of the most epic moments you can think of in New York sports. You just can't forget about that. So I think Eli belongs there, I think Brunson belongs there. And now we start kicking around, does Jeter belong there or does someone else belong there? And how much do we put championships into this conversation?

[Don La Greca]

Well, obviously it's going to be a big piece of it, right? But I don't know. And again, I'm just thinking aloud and that's what we're going to be doing and taking calls and stuff. And you know, I don't, I don't see that you can have a Mount Rushmore that doesn't include Aaron Judge. Because whoever the four, if we excluded Aaron Judge, right, because he didn't win a title, he would be better than every player that would be on the Mount Rushmore.

[Michael Kay]

Correct.

[Don La Greca]

So how do you not put them on?

[Alan Hahn]

Well, are you taking Jeter off and putting him on? Jeter has a World Series title in this, in this time frame. We're talking about 2009. We also know that he finished a runner up for MVP and like barely missed it. And you could argue he probably should have won it that year. The voting was ridiculously close and his WAR was high. We can do that whole thing if you want, but like, do you take. Do you take off Jeter and put on Judge? Despite the fact that Judge in his World Series appearance lost, and Jeter's World Series appearance, plus another one in 2003 and 2001, I should say so you got one, three. He got three appearances and one championship versus Judge, who has one appearance, no championship. You get what I'm saying? Like, so we've got to decide. We can't put both on. We've got. We'd have to pick one.

[Don La Greca]

It's so much fun. I mean, listen, I have no problem. You know, there's been a lot of debate recently about, like, where do you put the Devils? Because it's not New York. I put them in. It's the Tri State area. I think Brodeur ends up like Jeter, right? Where he accomplished so much prior to the 21st century, but did was the goaltender on three teams that went to a Stanley Cup. Right. So. But I think he kind of falls into that. Yeah, you probably would consider him, but half of his stuff came prior to the 21st century, so he gets cut in there. But really, Brodeur's a good one.

[Michael Kay]

Well, I mean. I mean, in that era, though, of Jeter, Henrik, too. Don, you're talking about, like, before, you just easily say that Judge is the better, and I guess he would be, you know, better. But Jeter has the ring. Talking about multiple seasons, over 200 hits, batting over.300 almost every year.

[Don La Greca]

Again, Peter, we are excluding everything prior to 2001, so it'll really be.

[Michael Kay]

That's what I mean. Yeah, But I mean, post 01, that's what Jeter's number are. I mean, it's batting.320, batting.330.

[Don La Greca]

I'm not. I'm not taking them out. I'm just saying that that has to be considered because everybody looks at Derek Jeter. Let's be honest. All the people that call up and say, I'd rather have Jeter than Judge are basing it on the fact he's got five rings. Well, guess what? Four of those rings are taken off the board if you're talking about the 21st century. But he still was an amazing player. But where do you put Mo? I mean, listen. All right, Mo came up. He was on the 96 team, but he wasn't the closer. All right, Everybody remembers he was great closer in 97, but he gave up the home run that cost him the series against Cleveland. All right, so 98, 99, 2000. We're talking three years of him being the Best closer in baseball. And oh, by the way, another dozen in the 21st century and he went in unanimous. Hall of Famer. I would put Mo over Jeter. Just talking 21st century.

[Caller]

Right.

[Don La Greca]

Or do you put both?

[Alan Hahn]

That's not crazy. Mo over Jeter is not crazy because of everything you just said.

[Don La Greca]

So do you go Jeter, Moe, Brunson, Manning, and we're done.

[Alan Hahn]

We're done. You put two Yankees.

[Michael Kay]

I mean, it's kind of fitting, right? When you look at the time. I mean, it's, it's. I mean, Revis has had a hell of a run.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, but now, see, and. Right, because now you're doing the. If you're going to include a guy who doesn't have a title, then Judge has to be on that list first.

[Don La Greca]

Right. Because you know, Judge is going to the hall of Fame, but he's not there yet. But we know Lundqvist is in the hall of Fame.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

Reavis is in the hall of Fame.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

So there's so much to this.

[Don La Greca]

How do you explain they're in the hall of Fame?

[Alan Hahn]

That's what I think we've got to figure out.

[Don La Greca]

So much fun.

[Alan Hahn]

And do we agree that it has to? Because we just finished a 15 year span of no titles. So there's not gonna be a lot to choose from if we make. You must have won a championship as part of the equation right now.

[Don La Greca]

This is gonna be, this, this could be fun. Okay.

[Alan Hahn]

This is going to start fights.

[Don La Greca]

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[Alan Hahn]

So good, so good, so good.

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[Alan Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Michael Kay]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Alan Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don La Greca]

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[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Don La Greca]

And I think that's a good game.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm sorry to cut you off. That's why Henrik to me is somebody you have to consider because I've, he comes to a lot of Knicks games and I'm really taken aback by like, because, you know, Rangers will come to games and they'll put him up on garden vision and you'll get it like. But when they put Henrik up, they go crazy. So he, he really has become sports royalty in New York.

[Don La Greca]

Well, because he's, he's a really good looking guy.

[Alan Hahn]

Handsome. But. Yeah, but there was something about him when he was, yeah, he was really good. Very fiercely competitive. And then he has.

[Don La Greca]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

He's got the, the je ne sais

[Michael Kay]

quoi, je ne zaequois.

[Don La Greca]

So I Think that does shave off a few, because I think that's also part of it. Because we talk about Kings of New York, who owns New York, who would want to go to a sports Mount Rushmore and see not who's the guy on the left, who's the guy to the right of. Then you're out. Then you're out. And all the guys that we're talking about right now, especially Brunson, will be. Interesting how that ages. Because right now it seems like complete folly. He should not be on the list, right? Or not be on the route rushmore. Fast forward 20 years from now. It really depends on how things go. That moment will always be remembered. But I still think there's work to be done.

[Michael Kay]

I disagree. I think it only matters who else comes along.

[Don La Greca]

I think.

[Michael Kay]

I mean, well, that's part of it. It would require. It would require someone else dethroning. Because, I mean, even if. Listen, okay, first of all, we have to be realistic. Brunson next year is not going to all of a sudden start. He's not turning into John Bagley next year. Okay? Like he is hit strange bull. No, you get strange bulls. It's a problem. It's a good one. Yeah. It's another less athletic, height, deprived point guard. But he's not. That's not going to happen. Right. So we know the kind of player he's going to be, Don. Even if he spent the next eight years just being like this 23 and 8, 21 and 9, you know, sort of a mundane version of Jalen Brunson. Those kind of numbers, plus the championship and the way that it came with what he did in the Finals. Don, he's not getting knocked down.

[Don La Greca]

Well, he could. No, you can't say it's not going

[Michael Kay]

to happen because it can be very, very.

[Don La Greca]

I don't disagree. But it depends on, as Alan said, who's next. Because I'll tell you, a guy that ended a curse, won an MVP and was almost perfect in the Super Bowl, Phil Sims. Where does Phil Sims lie in any conversation? But he went back 50 years. Eli surpassed him with his two MVPs, right?

[Alan Hahn]

Phil Sims, ever the best player on his team.

[Michael Kay]

Never. Not even close.

[Alan Hahn]

Because you had Lawrence Taylor, that defense.

[Don La Greca]

What I'm saying is that Phil Sims was a hell of a. Phil Sims ended up.

[Alan Hahn]

You're making a good point, but I'm just saying, like, I don't know if he's ever was considered the best player on the team. The. Lt was the guy on the team.

[Don La Greca]

But that's not his fault that they happen to have an lt. But again, I'm not saying that he will be knocked off, but. But Phil Sims has been knocked off. Borderline hall of Famer. Remember, Brunson would have a lot more work to do if the Basketball hall of Fame didn't include college. Would you agree just on NBA? He'd have more work to do to get into the hall of Fame.

[Alan Hahn]

I mean, with the title in his pocket. I just feel like still is put some.

[Don La Greca]

And many people believe if Phil Sims doesn't get hurt when the giants won in 90 now maybe they don't win. It's Jeff Hostetler who helped them. But if Phil got that second title, people believe he would be in the hall of fame. He was 21 for 25 in the Super Bowl. Again, I'm not comparing it to brunch. I'm just saying that right now Phil Sims would have no chance because along came Eli Manning, you know, and the giants have won three. And they've won three titles since then. If. If 20 years from now, somebody comes along that helps the Knicks win three titles and is charismatic and he's a baller and he's an MVP in the regular season and in the postseason, that could be something that could knock Brunson off.

[Michael Kay]

I will say this though, first of all, I mean, yeah, these are things that are unlikely but can happen. The thing is though, the title that the 26 Knicks have won has now changed what the next one will be and what the next one will be. This first one in 53 years. I hear what you're saying. That would be the Eli Comp. In theory. Right. But I just think that you can't. This moment, to me guys. And you guys didn't really argue it. I mean, it's really hard to. There's not many New York events that are on the level of which this

[Alan Hahn]

has taken the moment. Like, what is that Hamilton line? This is not a moment, it's a movement. Like, that's what it kind of felt like because it really moved the whole city. But.

[Don La Greca]

Oh, yeah, let's let.

[Alan Hahn]

By the way, let's not overcomplicate this, all right? Because now we're talking about what if this. Yeah, we are in the right now, right, Don, let's stay where our feet are and do it from right now, from this moment. Not worry about the future. But right now, if this is what we're putting together, it's. It's not about what's coming. That's. That was me doing the shaffer thing. He certainly is in the conversation. Not right now. So let's just do it where we are right now. Okay.

[Don La Greca]

That's where we are.

[Alan Hahn]

It just doesn't overcomplicate it. Right. Okay. So Brunson would be there if we, if we are in the right now. Yeah, just Eli is there if we do the right now.

[Don La Greca]

I think those are the two ones that I don't think could be knocked out.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay. And now we're in the Judge vs. Jeter or Rivera conversation when it comes to a Yankee.

[Don La Greca]

Right. And I, and I would vote for Mo over Jeter. If we're talking about 21st century,

[Alan Hahn]

then would you vote for Mo over Jeter? And judge, if we weren't going to put two Yankees on it

[Don La Greca]

then, then who would be?

[Alan Hahn]

So I make it. I would make a case for Henrik Lundquist. Beloved, legendary, got to a cup, wasn't his fault, they lost. And as you said, as you we use the move the needle box office, universally known, can't walk in Times Square by himself. I think Henrik checks all those boxes.

[Don La Greca]

And also, let's not forget too, the Rangers were nowhere coming out of the lockout and he's the reason that they got back. And when you look at all the players to play for the Rangers while Lundqvist was there, he was their best player. He was the reason they were good. He was the reason they were competing for a championship. I still think that means something. 1-800-9193776 let's get the conversation started with Dan in Florida. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Dan?

[Caller]

Gentlemen, thank you for taking my call. Man, I love this show and I love the debate today. And this just shows what the Knicks championship did because now we're having fun.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Talking about sports. So I have my list. I'm going to address this to you. Don, you mess my list up. I had it set and then you mentioned Mo, my man. So this is my list. And then I'll address the mole factor afterwards. So I have Jeter as number one. Now I'm taking into account regular season and what they did in the postseason. Okay. Jeter was clutch throughout. Brunson is next. His game didn't change much from regular season to postseason. Matter of fact, maybe he elevated. Yes, sir, Judge is number three. And because he's such a great player, I don't care about those Yankee so called fans and haters that he doesn't have a ring. But come on, look what he's done in the regular season after Judge A Rod. I mean, he was an amazing player, also won a ring. And we're talking about New York sports and athletes now. I have Eli, because you know what? He rose past the level of a Rod judge, but still, he definitely was helped out by the defenses and other factors. The reason I leave Mo out, the only reason Mo has an opportunity to be great, is because more than likely, Jeter had to do something to get him the ball for the save. I love Mo and all those guys on the list. What do you think, guys?

[Don La Greca]

You know, that's interesting the way I'd retort that, you know, Jeter and his teammates had to put Mo in that situation. Jeter doesn't have five championships without Mo.

[Alan Hahn]

That's right.

[Caller]

Mo. Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

Because you know what? As much as you sound. This may sound crazy. Jeter had Pierce, right? Alex Rodriguez, Miguel Tejada, like there were there. What's his name? Why can't I think of his name? From the Reds. No more Garcia. Apparently he was better than them. But they were in the room. Mo was in a suite and everybody else was the floor below. Because if you're telling me Trevor Hoffman was the second best closer during the Mo era, he's not even in the house. My famous line about him is, I wouldn't allow.

[Michael Kay]

I would.

[Don La Greca]

I wouldn't trust him to close a door. All right? And he's in the hall of Fame. Like, Mo had no peer. No one was a cop to Mo in the history of baseball. I can't not put somebody out there.

[Alan Hahn]

But wait, did Dan. Did Daniel mention a rod? Yes, I thought I heard you mention.

[Caller]

I did mention a rod.

[Don La Greca]

Yes, sir.

[Alan Hahn]

Somebody on Twitter also, David Tavares said, same thing. A rod, two MVPs, and was huge in the Yankee 2009 World Series.

[Don La Greca]

He wasn't the MVP, but he was big.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, but he also won MVPs, so.

[Don La Greca]

Right.

[Caller]

And like you guys mentioned, he did take the attention of the city. Negative or positive? He captured the city then.

[Alan Hahn]

He can't walk in Times Square. You know that now.

[Don La Greca]

But there was a time. And Dan, thanks for the call.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, thanks, Dan. That's good.

[Don La Greca]

The thing with a rod, there was a buzz about him for like 80% of the time he was here was negative. Poor guy takes his shirt off at Central park and everybody's destroying. Right? I mean, so the bus, he got it after he won. Peter, you weren't here, but.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah, but I was alive.

[Don La Greca]

No, but I'm saying on the K show before you got here, like, people that despised him, he sued his own team. But now he's complete. It's one of he's risen like a phoenix. But there was a time where Yankee fans hated him. He knocked the ball out of Bronson Arroyo's hand. Yankee fans were killing him. Meanwhile, Jeter faked getting hit. And everybody said that's what winners do.

[Michael Kay]

It's so true.

[Don La Greca]

Could not never win. Oh, crazy.

[Michael Kay]

These things change very quickly, guys. I mean, we talk about it with George all the time. The version of George that people know now. And now I'm watching this week, guys. We don't even know how people talk about Dolan in 20 years.

[Alan Hahn]

That's a great.

[Michael Kay]

Titles change a lot.

[Alan Hahn]

Know the comp there right now, the

[Michael Kay]

titles change a lot.

[Alan Hahn]

People are being Jim going through his older George phase. All of a sudden.

[Michael Kay]

Now people think the level they're seeing, the speech, they think it's pretty funny. Listen, the whole 10 weeks, no sleeping with your wife. It's a really funny story. If they don't win a championship, if they get bounced in the first round and that comes out, doesn't play the same way, guys. It's stay out of the locker room. Why are you talking to players? Mind your business. Instead they want a championship. Everything's duckies and bunnies. So we don't know how this thing goes. The championships change everything.

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[Alan Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg Podcast.

[Michael Kay]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Alan Hahn]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Michael Kay]

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[Don La Greca]

Now Cece Sabathia has a podcast that's still the one with Ruko. Or does he have a No, I

[Michael Kay]

think it's something else.

[Don La Greca]

All right, well he tweeted out. Got another one for the show. Now that Jalen Brunson and The Knicks are NBA champs. It got me thinking, who is on the Mount Rushmore of NYC athletes? And it was tweeted at 3:30. So we didn't steal it from him. He didn't steal it from us either.

[Alan Hahn]

But a lot of people are thinking, everybody's doing this. It's fine.

[Don La Greca]

This is fun.

[Alan Hahn]

This is always the good. Like, you know, we're gonna argue, we're gonna make cases. But because of Brunson's, you know, success here, it does open this up again. Remember we used to do the mural at the old studios that had Mari and Melo and Jeter and Eli. And as they all retired, I remember doing a show at night and I said, we gotta put a new mural up. So right now, who would you put up? And then there was all, you know, like, it was such a fun conversation. And I don't think anybody's wrong.

[Don La Greca]

No, there's no wrong. And also, there's going to be complete bias in this. Like, the last caller that gave his list obviously is a Yankee and Giant fan. Yeah, Yankees. He had a Giant and he was a Nick fan. Everybody's going to have Brunson on it for the recency bias of it. Not saying he doesn't belong, but we're doing this because the Knicks won because of Brunson's performance. There's people that aren't hockey fans that would even consider Lundqvist. There are people that maybe aren't that big of baseball fans, or they're Met fans and aren't going to consider Yankees. We understand all that, but it's a fun conversation. They're going to continue with Pat in Maine. You're on ESPN New York. What's up, Pat?

[Caller]

Hey, guys.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

How you doing?

[Don La Greca]

Good. Oh, good, man. Hey, first of all, what an epic. Who you taking out?

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Don La Greca]

And I, I, I think it's a little straightforward, but I'll share it after. I got a couple of points though, if we're thinking Hank. And I hope I'm not stepping on hockey, folks, because I'm, I'm really not one. Are you considering Patrick too? No, because he's not in the 21st century.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, yeah. Ewing was before. This is, this is in 2000, remember?

[Don La Greca]

Every.

[Caller]

My fault.

[Don La Greca]

Don't yell at me. We knew this was gonna happen. But no, it wasn't even that I wasn't listening. I've been listening, but I just dumped anyway. We got 21st century, otherwise it gets crazy, right? No, I got you, I got you. Sorry about that, fellas, but Dan had

[Sponsor/Announcer]

a good point, too.

[Don La Greca]

If he Said, you know, where is, where is Mo without Jeter? I mean, where's Jeter without Mo? You know, how many, how many saves did Mo have that, you know, made something epic? Jeter did, you know, come through. So that being said, I think Jeter and Mo have to both be on there. And then I think it's Eli and Brunson. Yeah, just, I don't want to punish the Yankees for having multiple guys. I'd like to keep it to one per team just because I think it's hard enough to do. Now you're limiting us to just two spots or three spots. Right. Like it's either Jeter or Mo if you put them both on, man. Now, now you're kind of taking the fun out of a little bit.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Don La Greca]

And I. So now it comes down to remember, you're talking about Jeter. It's hard not to think about Jeter as a five time champion. You have to think of him as a one time champion because it's the 21st century. If you look at Mo's numbers and Jeter's numbers and Peter outlined, Jeter's numbers are fantastic. But Mo stayed consistent. Mozo. Mo was fabulous as a closer from 2001 on. Yes, he blew the save against the Diamondbacks, I get it, but the guy was just phenomenal.

[Alan Hahn]

No, he was. Again, he, like Jeter had still the bulk of his career in the 21st century.

[Don La Greca]

But if we're going to put Mo and Jeter on and Brunson's on, then, then we're having a conversation about one guy.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, then it's Eli. I just think, I think Eli has got to be on this list. I think he's the one guy that he's on with a marker. Don, don't you think, you know, why

[Don La Greca]

did they get late? Why couldn't they put five on the Mount Rushmore?

[Alan Hahn]

Really, why they stop at four is what you say.

[Don La Greca]

I don't get it.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah, it would have been easier if they could have just done a nice even five. When you think about odd. But you get the idea when you

[Alan Hahn]

think about it too, right? Mount Rushmore. Like it. It's the obvious ones is, you know, George Washington and Abraham Lincoln big. Then you have Thomas Jefferson. So you're still in that early. And then there's Teddy Roosevelt. Doesn't that almost feel like. Isn't Roosevelt a little random?

[Don La Greca]

He had a good war.

[Michael Kay]

I love.

[Alan Hahn]

Let's not get into a debate. I'm just saying, like, it just feels like three Founding Fathers and then Teddy.

[Michael Kay]

Well, but they.

[Alan Hahn]

That's all I'm saying.

[Michael Kay]

But they all have. They all have a specific purpose. It's. Washington represents birth of the nation. Jefferson represents the growth and expansion of the nation. Lincoln represents preservation, guiding the country through the Civil War. And Roosevelt represents development of the US in the 20th century. So they're supposed to, like, each specifically refer to a thing. So if we were to do it that way, by the way. Oh, growth, development, preservation changes the conversation.

[Alan Hahn]

You want to do all time, Craig, then we go. I mean, birth is Ruth.

[Caller]

Ruth.

[Alan Hahn]

You think? Birth of New York sports. Legendary New York sports. Babe Ruth was the biggest name in the world at once.

[Michael Kay]

That's right.

[Alan Hahn]

Right. So, all right, so then expansion. What?

[Michael Kay]

No, no, growth. Growth is.

[Alan Hahn]

I thought Jefferson was next.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah, that's. He's growth.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, isn't that expansion. Same thing?

[Don La Greca]

Oh, yeah.

[Michael Kay]

It's both. Sorry, you're right. It actually literally says growth and expansion.

[Alan Hahn]

Okay, so who's somebody that. That turned sports, like, on its ear, like, made it just grow?

[Michael Kay]

Mantle.

[Alan Hahn]

DiMaggio. Because he was.

[Michael Kay]

You know, I always go mantle over DiMaggio.

[Don La Greca]

You do?

[Michael Kay]

But that. It's just like, how it. How it hits.

[Alan Hahn]

DiMaggio became also a national figure.

[Michael Kay]

And totally.

[Don La Greca]

It's so weird because if you're just gonna go New York, you gotta, you know, obviously it's between those two, I guess. But they were just so separated by, you know, decades, kind of when it started.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. And Washington and Jefferson were.

[Don La Greca]

I don't know, Mantle, to me, just seemed to bring. Maybe because they're, you know, with the. The 60s, one movie. And just. It feels like Mantle as gargantuan is. DiMaggio is. Doesn't it feel like maybe. Maybe because there's a lot more people alive that saw Mantle. It feels like Mantle put baseball into, like, the pop culture. Well, for example, to this day, also married Marilyn.

[Alan Hahn]

So say he had Marilyn Monroe. He had a song about him.

[Caller]

Yeah, but.

[Michael Kay]

But I'll say this. If Remove Babe Ruth. If Babe Ruth didn't exist, because obviously he's Kleenex, right?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Michael Kay]

Take Babe Ruth out. If. If I was at the softball game and I shouldn't do this when he's having such a great week, but. And I saw, you know, Ray Santiago grab a bat, the joke would be, oh, watch out, here comes Mantle. That would be the joke before DiMaggio. That is like, Don. You know what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Michael Kay]

Watch out. It's Mickey Mantle. Like, he's the definition of hitting a baseball to a lot.

[Don La Greca]

You were. You were talking about the Simon and Garfunkel song, where have you gone? Joe DiMaggio.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

Paul said he wanted to put mantle. DiMaggio just worked better in the song. Yeah, but he actually had Mantle in mind because that was his idol.

[Alan Hahn]

To be fair, I wasn't talking about that song. Oh, there was a song in the 40s called Jolt and Joe DiMaggio and it was a very famous song at the time. It was like a, you know, pop song.

[Michael Kay]

We were at war.

[Don La Greca]

We didn't drop. You ever heard the song?

[Alan Hahn]

Not a great. Not a great song. Not a great song whatsoever, Mrs. Robinson.

[Don La Greca]

I mean, it is insulted right now. Paul Simon would not talk to you. You might take a bat to your head.

[Alan Hahn]

I was not referencing that, but I said weird.

[Don La Greca]

It's generational, right? Because we all love Paul Simon. Mickey Mantles his idol. We all love Billy Crystal. Mickey Mantle's his idol. You know, we're of a certain age that if you're a Yankee fan of a certain age, your dad worshiped Mickey Mantle.

[Alan Hahn]

Damn it. We got a break. This is too good of a conversation.

[Michael Kay]

Can I tell you one, one thing before we go, one thing before we go to the break? I was today years old when I realized that DiMaggio's last year was Mantle's first year. I did not realize that, that they were literally directly connected, but generationally like that.

[Alan Hahn]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Michael Kay]

I don't want to know how the

[Alan Hahn]

sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

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