Hour 1: A Bad Sign

Summary

Episode Summary: "Hour 1: A Bad Sign"

Podcast Information
Title: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg
Hosts/Authors: Don LaGreca, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg
Episode: Hour 1: A Bad Sign
Release Date: April 11, 2025

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Introduction to the Weekend Sports Landscape

The episode begins with Bart Scott setting the stage for the weekend's sports events. He expresses frustration over the NFL draft delays, emphasizing the fans' impatience:

"Can we get the draft going already?" – Bart Scott [01:28]

He compares the intense anticipation for the draft to a sugar addiction, highlighting the widespread hunger and speculation surrounding the event.

Deep Dive into the New York Knicks' Performance

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the New York Knicks' disappointing season. Don LaGreca critiques the team's inconsistency and defensive shortcomings:

"I have been consistent. This guy's a top 10 quarterback. There you go. Fool to pass on him." – Don LaGreca [02:08]

Peter Rosenberg adds his concerns about the team's defensive lapses, particularly in clutch moments:

"I've just lost confidence in this team down the stretch of a game." – Peter Rosenberg [05:44]

The hosts analyze a pivotal game where the Knicks held a substantial lead but faltered in the second half, allowing the Detroit Pistons to overcome them. Don highlights the lack of toughness and grit displayed by the team:

"This was a bad sign because it shows the team can disappear when needed." – Don LaGreca [04:17]

Coaching Strategies and Defensive Issues

Tom Thibodeau's coaching decisions come under scrutiny, especially his handling of key players during critical game moments. Don emphasizes the defensive deficiencies:

"Towns will see a lot of times in drop coverage where he just yields a 15 footer." – Don LaGreca [37:52]

Alan Hahn questions the team's defensive strategies and their ability to maintain pressure throughout the game:

"We have to get better on the defensive end." – Alan Hahn [Some Timestamp]

Player Performances and Team Dynamics

The discussion delves into individual performances, particularly focusing on Jalen Brunson and Julius Randle. Alan praises Randle's effort despite mixed feelings from fans:

"Julius Randle put up 31 points and had 10 boards with five or six assists. That's what Julius Randle brought to the team." – Alan Hahn [24:22]

Don contrasts this with concerns about Brunson's ability to sustain performance under pressure:

"He does not give up. Now, Towns on the bench and Mitchell Robinson out there." – Don LaGreca [37:52]

Listener Calls and Fan Sentiment

Listener engagement reveals a divided fan base. Some fans are vehemently dissatisfied, calling for coaching changes and expressing doubts about the team's playoff prospects:

"Are you seriously going to tell me you think this team is going to be competitive against Boston? Why would you think that?" – Bart Scott [14:13]

Others defend the team's efforts, pointing out the challenges they've faced with injuries and roster changes:

"Why does everybody put their eggs in one season?" – Bart Scott [22:23]

Potential Offseason Moves and Future Prospects

The hosts speculate on possible offseason acquisitions to bolster the team's defense and overall performance. Don mentions Kevin Durant as a potential trade target:

"Kevin Durant will be in a conversation, and the Knicks will be one of the teams in that conversation." – Don LaGreca [23:05]

Peter Rosenberg discusses how acquiring high-caliber players could address the team's defensive woes:

"Milwaukee is becoming more and more realistic if this team can't win a game." – Peter Rosenberg [10:52]

Strategic Adjustments and Lineup Concerns

Alan Hahn brings up tactical adjustments, questioning the viability of benching key players during critical moments:

"Are we ever going to play like a team? Jalen Brunson leads the league in dribbles per possession." – Alan Hahn [35:47]

Don responds by highlighting the complexities of coaching decisions, such as balancing player minutes and maintaining defensive integrity:

"If you have a lead and you're protecting it, you want to make sure your best defensive group is on the floor." – Don LaGreca [37:52]

Conclusion: Balancing Expectations and Reality

As the episode nears its end, the hosts reflect on the dissonance between fan expectations and the team's actual performance. Don acknowledges the frustration but emphasizes the need for patience and strategic planning:

"The offense is not the problem, the defense is the problem." – Don LaGreca [40:45]

Peter Rosenberg underscores the importance of allowing the team to develop and gel over time, despite the current setbacks:

"It's a team that's a work in progress and anything can happen." – Bart Scott [19:07]

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This episode provides an in-depth analysis of the New York Knicks' struggles, exploring defensive issues, coaching strategies, and player performances. The hosts engage in a robust discussion, enriched by listener feedback, highlighting the complexities of building a competitive team amidst high expectations and ongoing challenges.

Transcript

[Don LaGreca]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Don LaGreca]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Don LaGreca]

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[Alan Hahn]

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[Bart Scott]

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[Don LaGreca]

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[Bart Scott]

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[Don LaGreca]

It's lame. It needs Viagra. And Rosenberg.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm gonna lift my shirt up, take my pants down, and shake it all around.

[Bart Scott]

This is in North Dakota. This is New York.

[Don LaGreca]

This is Don Han and Rosenberg on 8 80, ESPN and the ESPN New York app.

[Bart Scott]

All right, the weekend is finally here, boys. It doesn't feel like the spring. It's rainy, it's cold. Actually feels like football weather. But basketball playoffs are on the horizon. We've got the draft coming up in less than two weeks. And please, if there's a God in heaven, can we get the draft going already? People are just making stuff up now, getting irritated with it. But there people are just so hungry. It's almost like it's a drug. And you know, it's not heroin, it's sugar. But you know what it looks like it give it to me, put it in my veins. I need it. But I need the draft to happen quickly because pretty much there's going to be a mock draft that's going to pick Joe Pisarcik to go third.

[Don LaGreca]

The problem with the NFL draft is it starts the day after the Super Bowl.

[Bart Scott]

Right?

[Don LaGreca]

And it really does, honestly, like the coverage and the speculation and the talk. It all starts after the super bowl. And that's in February. And this thing's not until late April.

[Bart Scott]

No, it's.

[Don LaGreca]

So that's what we do. It's an industry, man. But it is annoying that it does. You know, we just keep churning out changes and thoughts and all that stuff. And I'm going to stick to my guns on Chedeur Sanders. I have been maintained it. Everybody has gone up, everybody's gone down. Then they come back up again, then they're down. I have been consistent. This Guy's a top 10 quarterback. There you go. Fool to pass on him. If you need a quarterback. And he's going to be in this league a long time, we're going to.

[Bart Scott]

Have that to talk about. We've got maybe baseball back. Well, we know the Mets will play in Sacramento in front of flies, but at Least here in New York there's a chance we'll see Yankees and Giants, but probably not today. Rain all over the area here, so we'll see. This is just going to be a pretty crappy weekend as far as weather's concerned. Rangers and Islanders are dead. The Nets are dead, but the Knicks. Guys, guys.

[Don LaGreca]

Rangers, Islanders. For just. Just a moment, please.

[Bart Scott]

Sure.

[Don LaGreca]

What the hell was that? And what happened to the rivalry that used to exist in this. In this market? When it comes to hockey, those games always meant something. That was a lunchtime skate is what that was. Embarrassing.

[Bart Scott]

Mall especially.

[Don LaGreca]

We've been killing the Rangers. I'll be done in a minute and then we'll get into the next. Just let me get off my chest. That organization has got to do a thorough, I mean, offseason, thorough from top to bottom, reconsider of everything that they're thinking about. You can't possibly be in your building against that team and let that happen. Like everybody's accountable. And I don't want to. Patrick, I've really liked him for the most part, but I don't want to hear him say, you know, we took 45 shots. That means we did compete. No, everybody. Offense is. Everybody wants to play offense. The other end of the ice is where the joke was. And it's in your bill. That's embarrassing. We know John Ledecky very well. We know how passionate he is as an owner. I think him, that whole ownership group has got to have a real conversation about what the hell direction this franchise is going in. They got a great building. They're going to host the All Star Game. A couple of years ago, they were one of the top teams in the league, one of the most competitive teams in the league. And now they have returned to a joke status after a game like that. And it's a dangerous place to be because when the Islanders reach that kind of a status, joke status, you become ignored. Nobody's buying tickets, nobody's going in the building. Nobody cares. The dangerous place that franchise in right now. Okay, I'm done.

[Bart Scott]

Listen, neither team's making the playoffs. And you know, Ranger fans can get excited about winning 9 to 2. Where were those goals when they actually did need it? But both technically are still mathematically alive. It just shows you how bad everybody they've been chasing after is. And Montreal's finally won six in a row, so it's all but over for those teams. Devils will hook up with Carolina and. And good for them. But you know, the Rangers and the Islanders, their season's over. But, guys, I. It's so interesting watching these Knick games that we build up as opportunities to see our where do we stand? And Allen, how many times do they have to fail before I just get really legitimately concerned at where we are with this team. I know that they're not there yet from a championship caliber standpoint, but the team they may match up with may, because the Pacers may pass the Knicks the way that they're playing, but still, the team that mathematically they might be facing in that first round, they lost three out of four games in the regular season. Two. And I know the regular season doesn't mean Jack. At least that's what I told Knick fans when they beat the Heat 3 out of 4 Way back in the LeBron James days and said, be careful what you wish for, but, you know, this is not an established team yet. It's still trying to find their sea legs as far as being a championship team is concerned. But, Alan, we talk so much about what are they going to do against Boston, what are they going to do against Cleveland, what are they going to do against Detroit? Loss, loss, loss. Yes. Competitive, not embarrassed, but still losing. Should I be concerned about this?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I've been waiting to hear from Alan because I, of course, watched last night, Don, and I've gotten to a point with this team, and obviously they didn't have everybody last night, but whatever combination they've had recently, Alan, I've just lost confidence in this team down the stretch of a game. Like the second it gets away from them in any way. And I don't mean big time. I mean, the second it feels like they get down a couple of possessions, they just seem to sort of turtle and disappear. And I do find that very worrisome. As defensive as I've been, and as much as I feel like fans should remain optimistic, I got to tell you, last night, I'm with Don did not make me feel good. You were doing color on msg. You were sitting courtside looking great. Am I missing something? Because it didn't look good to me.

[Don LaGreca]

So I always ask this question, like, it's a question that we do a lot when we have get up and it's. It's about all kinds of topics and teams and everything else. Especially after a performance, you say, you know, bad sign, a bad game or a bad sign. Right? That's the question you ask. And I felt like last night was a bad sign. You know, some people think it's amazing, too, because I. You. You say what you want to say. You give your opinion, you think it's an educated one. And the reactions are amazing because there are the people that are the doomsday prophets, prophets that just they, they feed off this, they love this and they want to say, told you so. Then there's the other side, which are the rose colored glasses ones that say you're gaslighting and you're just doing it for your show. You just want people to call into your show because you're saying dramatic things and it doesn't matter because they didn't play. They were missing two starters. They didn't, you know, they, they. Did they take the game that seriously? Did they play that hard? All those things. And I don't like any of it either side, guys. This was a bad sign for one reason. The Knicks were in control of the game for the first three quarters. Most of the first three quarters had a 13 point lead cruising. And as I was calling the game, I felt like, you know, as we were talking about this matchup and I said like, this is a good sign because of how they really run their offense. Well, Towns was in foul trouble, but it didn't matter because he had other people that Chua was playing well. Just, it was a good rhythm, good flow. Whatever it was, it wasn't dominated by Brunson, it wasn't dominated by Towns. It was kind of everybody just contributing. Then in the second half, the Pistons suddenly dialed it up. And usually when a building gets like that where the. I mean, there's people courtside, you could tell they're waiting for this series because these fans, they're. They're cr. They're killing Brunson. Trash talking Brunson. He's already become. Now he's their target, right? He is, he's the enemy. And they were on his case. And they were on, on the case of the Knicks and they were firing their team up and you could see the young Pistons was starting to like feed off of it. And they all of a sudden the chests were out a little more, a little more bounce in their step. Couple of buckets by Kate Cunningham was really good. Next thing you know, it's a game. You could feel the whole building turn competitors in that moment, knowing the whole situation go, oh no. Hell no. Like, no, no, you're not doing this. You're not gonna punk us. And instead, like I was waiting for the response. You got a little bit. It was tied, six minutes to go. Andrew Shaman had a nice little run. So you tied. Okay. Still there. Can win this game. It's. It's Jalen Brunson time. Yeah, nothing happened. Nothing happened. And so with that after the game, I was waiting to see what was going to be said. And the guy who said the most poignant thing was P.J. tucker, the 39 year old who got his first real run with the Knicks. You know about P.J. tucker, if you know the NBA tough guy, NBA champ with the Bucks, has been in the league 14 years, he gets it. And he said they out toughed us the whole fourth quarter. It's something we've got to address. That's why I'm concerned, because you would think the stars on this team in that moment realizing, oh, they're trying to send a little message, oh, I see what they're like, let's shut this place down. Instead they just got beat down. And I don't like the looks of that at all. Because it is something that you concern with all year. This Knicks team. How many times we heard callers say they're not tough like last season. They miss Harley Stein and Divincenzo and Randle and their attitude and toughness, all that stuff. And you keep saying they got a different kind of toughness. What you need in the playoffs, toughness I did not see last year and I didn't like it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know what's fascinating about we saw too is that because, because of the way that game played out and the way that the Pistons carried themselves and Alan, you and Kenny referred to this, the way that the Detroit Pistons fans were feeling, it almost made me change my tune from earlier that day on the show and go, you know, maybe Milwaukee would be a better fit here like immediately. Now of course that works out great because you saw how everything played out across the league otherwise with the Knicks, Milwaukee is becoming more and more realistic. If this team can't win a game.

[Don LaGreca]

But they fall the four. Yeah, well, and I think this is the weird thing too is these games, man, like everybody's sitting everybody now. So like Milwaukee tonight plays. They're playing Detroit. Actually they got right, they finished the season with a home and home with Detroit. They play at Detroit tonight, then home on Sunday. And Giannis is just listed as probable, so he's probably going to play. Lillard's of course still out. Here's Detroit. This is what they're doing. Isaiah Stewart's not playing and a couple of other players are questionable, but one guy that is listed as probable is Kate Cunningham. So I'm curious how they play this game because if you're going all in and you win this Game. You set yourself up for the chance, you know, to make that jump, and then you see what Sunday brings. The Pacers could jump as well. They're playing in a back to back in Orlando and they're not playing anybody. Halliburton sitting. They won last night. Halliburton sitting, Nemhardt sitting. Neesmith is sitting. Shepherd's doubtful. So nobody's playing anybody who wants what. What's the strategy? Is everybody trying to play the Bucks? Like, what's going on here?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, in the case of the Knicks, it just feels like. I don't even think they care. They just can't get a win right now. And they. This would be. Don, if they can't grab one of these. I mean, they play Brooklyn, so Brooklyn on Sunday, you would think no matter what, you get that win. But, Don, how good do you feel? And by that I mean not good if you're the Knicks after the last couple of games.

[Bart Scott]

No, you don't feel good about this. You want to be playing at your best. Now, if you're one of those teams that doesn't care, well, then that's on you with whatever. I don't have to care about your situation either. But the Knicks. The great thing about the Knicks is they come to play every night. We were talking about, we want to see how Brunson's playing down the stretch. Now, we didn't get to see Mitch last night, but let's. The Knicks always play hard. They give you a reason to believe because of that, they don't get into the load management. They didn't get into all that garbage. They want to go out there and win. They got a coach that wants to go out there and win. And if you were a Tibbs guy, and I think we were all Tibbs guys, you know, he's. He's ticked off right now the way this team is playing. So if there are teams that are tanking to try to get a better matchup, that's not what the Knicks are supposed to be about. These games mean something to them. And. And they're coming up empty. So whoever they end up matching up with. Guys, tell me you feel good about the way they're playing, that this team that, by the way, hasn't done anything yet. I mean, Boston can play with their food. They just came off winning a championship. All right? But the Knicks are a team that is trying to establish itself. Last year was last year. They've pivoted from that team to this team. This team is presently constituted, hasn't accomplished anything so that's why the Knicks are supposed to be fun, is because they're building through the regular season to take those steps, whether they're gargantuan steps or mini steps all forward to lead us to believe of what this team is going to do come playoff time. And what they've shown me lately looks like a team that's going to be holding their breath no matter who they play in the first round. They may get out of it, most likely will get out of it, but what condition will they be in when they take Boston, who might slap around the playing team they take on, whether it's Orlando or whoever. Are you really right now going to seriously tell me you think this team is going to be competitive against Boston? Why would you think that? Why?

[Don LaGreca]

Can't think that. You can't. And. And I guess the word I was looking for is, like, what they're lacking because toughness is such an arbitrary term. And when it comes to athletes, it's swagger. Like, there was none of that. Like, there was in the third quarter against the Celtics when they could have put them away, when they could have really, you know, taken a hold of that, come out of the half and really take hold. No swagger. And that. That, you know, teams that you feel like they, like I always say this to you walk into a locker room of a good team in the first. First day of training camp, and you look around the room and you could see it. Like, guys look and they, oh, we got some dudes. Like, oh, we got a squad. Like, you could just feel it. Then there's gay. There's seasons. I've covered some bad teams. You walk in and they look around, they're like, you know, I'm going to make a vacation for late April. I almost said it already. Like, you know, like, there's just that feeling about your team and this. This group. Last year's group had a swag. You could just tell this year's group, it just. They've had moments, but they've never had that kind of swagger where they just knew, like, we can come in and smack this team. They just don't have that. Now quickly, because, Don, you mentioned, you know, how much, you know, the Knicks need to win all that stuff, and yet how they're handling this, because you're right to. Through 80 games, Tom Thibodeau has. Or 79. Tom Thibodeau has wanted to win every single game, right? The team has had that plan. Last night, they sit two starters and Mitchell Robinson. Here's the injury list for tonight, Anna, Nobody's questionable. He didn't play last night. Brunson is questionable. He did play last night. Hard is questionable. He didn't play last night. Carl Anthony Towns is questionable. He played last night. It's the last home game of the regular season. It's Fan Appreciation Night. Do we expect a full roster? Just get this thing done. Because the Cavs as good as they are, no Deandre Hunter, no Ty Jerome, no Mitch, no Donovan Mitchell. You know, I think Mobley will play. Garland might play or probably will play, but they're not going to play their whole group either. So what is the plan? Are you going all in tonight? Are you going to sit some guys still and rest and just. You'd rather be healthy than fight for third or fourth? What's the difference? Do you look at it that way? It's very interesting to see what they're going to do tonight.

[Bart Scott]

I don't know the answer to that. Honestly. You would like to think Fan Appreciation Night last game at the Garden, everybody plays. But at the same time, I mean do you want to go out there where you're full stud lineup and God forbid, lose the game or did you.

[Don LaGreca]

See Brunson rolled the left ankle.

[Bart Scott]

Well, there you go. Somebody gets hurt, everybody freaks out.

[Don LaGreca]

But back in. But still.

[Bart Scott]

So if they lose to Cleveland tonight, so that would be a collective zero and ten against the top three teams in the NBA.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah.

[Bart Scott]

Now does one in nine make you feel any better? Does that change the narrow? At least we got one when it didn't mean anything for Cleveland and we went all out because it was fan Appreciation day. I don't know if there are any style points tonight guys or anything, but it would be something to go into the playoffs as some people thinking this is a team that can make a run and a collective 010 against the top three teams in the NBA.

[Don LaGreca]

Now, now before you guys get to calls, I don't know if you saw last night we got in, it was 2am when I literally got dropped off at my house from the car service. Right. 2:00am and I just said, you know what, I'm gonna set it up for tomorrow because I just was reading social media in the ride home looking at just what fans were saying and you know, a lot of pissed off fans. And I understand it, everybody's tight right now. And I had and I said I'll be there for all your flamethrower takes and rants, you know where to find me. So I do feel like we're going to hear from a lot of Nick fans. I welcome it, and I want to make sure everybody knows. Like, I'm not. I get, like, you guys remind me a lot, like sometimes when Michael would have to take on all the Yankee fans and he would have to explain things and he would say what he had to say. And I want to make sure that I handle it the right way, where I'm not just shutting people down because I disagree with them. And I don't want people to not want to call in because they disagree with me. The whole idea is we've got to get all this stuff out off our chest. But we all can agree that last night did not feel good, and that flight home had me concerned.

[Bart Scott]

And that's all you need to know, because it's all about feel at this point. So I don't think there's anything wrong with being concerned. Now. The thing with the Knicks, and we'll get to the calls in a second at 1-800-919-3776, that frustrates me is you have people that you know are happy about this and want Tibbs fired, so you've got people that want to burn it right to the ground, and then you have other people. And I was listening today because Bart was getting into somebody, because Bart was really flexing today because he's a Piston guy, obviously, so he knows the roster well, was really going at Nick fans, and Nick fans, like, feeling like this team could really compete for a championship. And there doesn't seem to be any in between, but unfortunately, guys, in between is the answer.

[Don LaGreca]

Yep.

[Bart Scott]

You know, nobody wants to own what it is. And that is this is still a team that's a work in progress and anything can happen. They can lose in the first round just as easily as they can maybe beat Boston, but it's starting to feel more like they'll lose in the first round way easier than they would actually beat Boston. But it's the answer in the middle. But it seems like they're, like, divided in half, too. I don't care. Playoffs are a different piece, man. We got a bunch of dogs. We're going to win the whole thing. And then you got people that want tips fired today. So I want to hear from you. 1-800-919-3776. What are you feeling? You don't care. Just get the playoffs started. Are you legitimately concerned about where this team is right now? Let's dive in with Justin and Brooklyn. You're on espn, New York. What's up, Justin?

[Alan Hahn]

What's up, boys. Happy Friday. It's almost telly. Tom, I called in yesterday and asked the question about the seven game series with this season's team and last season scene. You guys kind of gave me a hard time afterwards and I feel like I got to defend myself here, especially Mr. Rosenberg, the Celtics fan. If you think back to last year, Don, correct me if I'm wrong, Peter was a. Was on the bandwagon with the Knicks, right. So the energy again, like I said yesterday, within the city, everybody felt much better about that team. This year's team does not have that same level of grit. And you guys just opened up saying that, opened the show saying that same thing today. And so my point yesterday wasn't about instant gratification, especially with the Bridges trade. It was more so really just putting together a team that fits the identity of a Tib system and we don't have that right now. So that I just wanted to call back in, defend myself. I love you guys.

[Don LaGreca]

Justin, that was the right. That was the right point you made. I think what I was. What I. If I remember right, what I said after it was that they wouldn't have Karl Anthony Towns if Isaiah Hartenstein was able to resign or if he chose to resign for less like that. That. So, so the. The idea of the two teams, it's really just. You can bring it to there why they're so different, but one team is incredibly offensively gifted. The other team had a little more of that grit, physicality and all the things that fans seem to love. And that's something that again, this offseason is a lot to think about.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But it aged well for Justin yesterday, there's no question.

[Don LaGreca]

Oh, it certainly did. You're right about that, Peter.

[Bart Scott]

But again, look. Right, but the point that I made after that call yesterday was that why does everybody put their eggs in one season? You were not winning a title with that Nick team. All right, I know you thought you were going to beat Boston. You weren't going to be Boston. You would have beaten the Pacers, I'll give you that. If you were healthy, you would have beaten the Pacers. But they obviously felt like as presently constituted, it wasn't going to happen. Maybe they took a little bit of a step back, but please don't judge this all in one season because I think as a Knick fan, Alan, you would take a step back if you knew it was going to lead to something really special. But if you looked at the roster and said, I think this is as far as we can go. So let's make some changes. All right. Maybe we'll take a little bit of a step back, but in the. In the end, you're gonna be glad that we did it. And I think that's where they're in transition right now, but fans don't want to see that. Fans wanted the instant gratification of the move, that we are better now. We're gonna go out there, we're gonna win a title after the deal. I don't know if that was ever on the table, Alan, that the team was gonna win this year.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's fair.

[Bart Scott]

It's fair.

[Don LaGreca]

I think it was. Yeah. That's hard to answer, because you knew the bench was gonna be the concern. That's what we said from the very beginning, is, do they have enough depth? Can they find it during the season? They were not able to really find anything significant during the season. And, you know, for all the people that's, like, you know, tip should play more players, I think last night showed you. There you go. Like, that's it. Like, there's your. You know, like, it's a lot that you learn. But I. That's why I say one more transaction cycle before you can really decide, okay, this ain't working. But you also have to consider what could be available in the summer. And as I've been just letting people know, the name Kevin Durant will be in a conversation, and the Knicks will be one of the teams in that conversation.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Well, it's. That's not going to help the toughness conversation. You guys want to talk to Al in the Bronx? Who wants to talk about the toughness? Al, what do you got?

[Alan Hahn]

Hey, man. So I watched. Me and my brother watched both those games last night. We watched the Minnesota game and watched the Knicks game. Julius Randle. And I know, as much as people hated Julius Randle here. Julius Randle, you weren't going to come into the Garden and punk him. That's his house. I watched him in Minnesota last night. Granted, Anthony Edwards is great, but Julius Randle put up 31, and I think he had 10 boards with five or six assists. That's what Julius Randle brought to the team. A toughness, a grit. Jabra Randall's boys went on a nice little run. Julius Randle and his team had that heart. And if you notice the difference, Carlson Towns is a great offensive player. I love his double doubles, I love his possible triple doubles, but he ain't got that heart. There's no reason why Draymond Green is telling us all what everyone knows about him around the league. Hey, Carl's cool. He's a nice guy. But a nice guy is not what you need in the playoffs. You need a. You need a killer. Jules Randle was the tough guy. And I would sit there and say if he was healthy last year, that playoff team, we probably would have beat Boston. I know you don't believe that.

[Bart Scott]

Stop it. Stop it. What was Julius Randall dog against the Hawks a couple of years ago, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

He was there.

[Bart Scott]

He was there. And then we forget about the Randall handle. Peter did we forget about that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

They got, they got, they got, they got bullied by a baby face Trae Young in the Garden in that series. The toughness was not there. Don. This is what makes it hard. And there's someone on the line right here who says it. They have. We have that call sitting here that I want to get to about it. Sometimes it's hard being a Knicks fan, Don. Everyone changes their mind. Everyone was over Randall when he was here. And now when you have these moments, you're going to miss them like it's not coming.

[Bart Scott]

Yeah, yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And I guess it's not just a New York thing, right? It's a sport in general.

[Bart Scott]

But we're creating a false narrative of if healthy. Last year they beat the Pacers, they beat the Celtics, they win the title. Yeah, it went wrong. Boy, I wonder if we could have done it to now. We would have done it.

[Don LaGreca]

It's right. It's a definitive, which we know is it was not a definitive, but it also does we also. The one thing that I've always told many Nick players, when you're gone, your career here will be 10 times better than it actually was.

[Bart Scott]

Oh, yeah.

[Don LaGreca]

Because that's just how fans see former players. They just always remember the only the good and they forget the bad. And Nick, there were the times, even last season, Nick fans couldn't wait to move on from Julius Randle. And now that they've done it and they only see the good games because you're not watching every game. You only see the times when he puts up numbers. Everybody. Oh, well, we miss him. I knew this was coming. It's the way it's going to go. And these calls are going to be great. So let's keep getting to them.

[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Don LaGreca]

You probably don't need help filing taxes, but if you get stuck, we have live experts you talk to. And who knows, you could hit it off and become long term tax staying up late at night talking about deductions, refunds, personal exemptions. Heck, you could even fall in love and create a little dependent of your own one day. Or they could just answer your filing questions. Tax act let's get them over with.

[Bart Scott]

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[Don LaGreca]

As a champion partner of the Masters.

[Bart Scott]

Bank of America supports everyone determined to find out what's possible in golf and in life. What would you like the power to do? Bank of America bank of America NA Member FDIC Copyright 2025 bank of America.

[Don LaGreca]

Corporation All Rights reserved. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don LaGreca]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I call out Knicks fans when they're being overly dramatic the last couple of games. Hard not to have a nasty taste in your mouth. Going into fan appreciation tonight at MSG.

[Don LaGreca]

Against Cleveland stuff I saw somebody say last night, I can't even get excited for the playoffs. See that? You know two ways to look at it. One is that think about how far you've come when six years ago it was always about the lottery and all that stuff. But I also could understand it because there isn't the same. Like last year there was an anticipation, you know, it was like there was just something tangible about it. Year before, same thing, right? Going into Cleveland could beat that team. They were the 5 seed. They're like could beat Cleveland. There was just something tangible. This does have a feeling like it's anti climatic. It does not feel like there's a great anticipation because of how this last week is going for this team.

[Bart Scott]

But don't you as everything is true and there is reason to be concerned, but for the people that aren't feeling it, isn't that just based off of false expectations? Like the last caller that we had, oh, we would have won the championship last year. We would have beaten Ball. Like why? So then they make the deal. So you had some people that killed it, but there were some people like, all right, we've taken the next step. Now we're going to go out there, we're going to win. And it was kind of a gut punch, I think early on that you know what, you're still not Boston. And then Cleveland comes out of nowhere, but you're still a three seed. You still have a chance to be a three seed. You're still going to the playoffs. You can be the Rangers right now done. You know, you could, you could be the Giants or Jets done. Before Thanksgiving. You're not. So if you're upset the way they're playing, very fair, very fair. But if you're not feeling the playoffs, that's because you built up false expectations and now you're mad at the team for not living up to them.

[Don LaGreca]

Isn't this very Yankees?

[Bart Scott]

But at least it's based off of something. Allen Even though the Yankees haven't won in a while, it's still based off of something because those fans were spoiled by the four championships in five years. Those fans were spoiled by never finishing under 530 years. A lot of these Knick fans experienced the 17 win season. A lot of these Knick fans experience never really getting a chance to be thought of as an elite team in the NBA. But now you're walking around like, you've got to live up to my expectations or I just. I want to fire everybody. I don't think the Yankee fans have the right to feel that way either. But it's at least a little bit more understandable from where their history is. You think slaying dragons are easy? What? They haven't won a championship since 1973. Like one trade, one move, it just automatically going to mean that you're now just going to be a perennial winner. You got it? You got to take the steps forward and sometimes a marginal step back. Maybe that's what this is. So be frustrated in real time, guys. But at the same time to say I'm not looking forward to the playoffs or wanting tips fired, I mean, that's a little for me.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The happy. The happy thing is you're going to get to at least watch this team in some complete form in the playoffs. To me, I think the ultimate frustration would have been if you're a Knicks fan, is to not have even gotten to watch the complete team play. Now listen, they haven't got a chance to play for very long and that is frustrating. And we're seeing sort of proof of that, that this is not. That they're not fully gelling yet and they're not even fully playing yet, but at least you should get to look at what this team actually is. I teased this before the break. You guys want to talk to Al in the Bronx? What you got, Al?

[Don LaGreca]

Yes.

[Alan Hahn]

Fellas. Fellas. I said that it was difficult to be a Knick fan because this is ridiculous, the overreaction. Three out of the top four defenders didn't play last night. Everybody. I love what Don said. Don, you got. You hit it right on the head. It's somewhere in the middle. We. The frustration is there because we know that we're not going to beat Boston. But what the heck are we complaining about? Detroit is a five game series. A nice tune up a five game series. OG Anunoby on K. Cunningham is not going to look like that. Then what are they going to depend on? Dennis Schroeder and Tim Hardaway? Come on, guys, let's calm down. The team's going to get knocked out in the second round. One more thing, Peter.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Last year you killed the Knick fans about Hartenstein. For two days. You got on the radio and. What are you talking about? Hartenstein. We miss him. That's the biggest thing we miss from last year, him and Devo. All right. That's all I have to say.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's a good call, Al. You're. You're not. I think both can be true. I thought. I thought it was a little overdone, the, like, the sort of acting as if this team was going to completely fall apart minus Hartenstein. But now you listen, the combo.

[Alan Hahn]

It was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It was the trifecta. You probably lost out. Alan, you correct me, because you're the guy. You could have lost their three toughest players, all three.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah, yeah. Demons. Enzo for sure had a swagger about him, you know, like, you know, somebody was pointing out to, like, you go back throughout the season, you think of certain moments, and the first sign to me was the. Was the dice roll from Trae Young in December and how no one really, like, reacted. And it was just like, oh, I didn't see it, or, oh, I didn't care. You know, that kind of thing. And the talk was, well, if you don't want him to do it, you just got to beat him, which is the right thing, of course. And even last night, Brunson said, you know, yeah, yeah, physical. We have to be better and all that stuff. He said, but, you know, there's a time and a place. You can't overreact either. You know, you feed into it, which is all the right thing, but we all know what it looks like, and that's kind of like what the dice roll thing. Even Isaiah Hardenstein from all the way in Oklahoma City was asked about it, and he said, if I was there, that wouldn't have happened. Like, even he was still going like, what are we doing? Like, so that was the first sign. And I asked that question in the post game. I actually asked Brunson it on camera. And I think I pissed him off because he didn't like it. He didn't like that I asked him that. He gave the right answer. He gave a very, you know, the correct answer to make publicly. But you could tell it bothered him. And that might have been the first sign of it, but then there's been little hints along the way. And last night was. Was another one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Bob on the Island. What do you got, Bob?

[Alan Hahn]

Hey, guys. How are you? Enjoy the show. Love, Alan. I love your work on the Knicks game. Look, I've been a Knicks fan a long time, and I look at this as they have three very good defensive players. And they have two very challenged defensive players, and that's Towns and Brunson. And I wanted to get your thoughts on teams taking advantage of them during the playoffs. I love jalen. He scores 30 points a game. He's clutch. But if the guy he's gone gives up, he gives up 25. It's a concern and I want to get your thoughts.

[Don LaGreca]

It's a. It's a very fair point to make on that. And the Knicks have done a pretty good job trying to hide Brunson a lot. And to Jalen's credit, the way he tries to make sure that he's not a complete liability. He's very good at drawing charges, which takes a lot of guts. He's good at that. He's pretty good with swipes and you know, you've seen him every now and then, he doesn't give up on plays. Like, it's not something he does. He doesn't give up. Now, Towns will see a lot of times in drop coverage where he just yields a 15 footer like that. He will not like his feet, whatever it is, doesn't move. That's the frustrate. I think that's way more concerning than anything that they do to Brunson. They'll try to put Brunson in bad matchups and get him stuck on a post op. That'll happen. You can always find ways to fix that if they start doing it. But the pick and roll, there's nothing you can do. He's there, he's got to be in coverage. He's got to press up. And if the roll man goes, he's got to be quick enough to stay with him. And he. And either one, he either is giving up an easy jumper or he's given up the roll. And that has been all year, a concern, which is why everybody was looking forward to getting Mitchell Robinson back. And they'll look. When you get to the playoffs, the tough, tough decisions begin. And there'll be times late in the game where you need good defense out of your center. It'll be Robinson out there and Towns on the bench. And people will be like, oh my God, he benched Towns for the last five minutes. And Tibbs will say, it's winning time, baby. Like, look, it's not the regular season. I gotta win. That's the lineup to help me win.

[Bart Scott]

Well, come at the expense of offense, though.

[Don LaGreca]

Well, again, if you have a lead and you're protecting it, right? If you're protecting it, then you want to make sure your best Defensive group is on the floor.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Shoot. Don, should we. Let's do it. Let's see. Let's see if the Allen completely loses it talking to Alex in Brooklyn.

[Bart Scott]

Hey, Alex. Oh, no.

[Alan Hahn]

Hey, what's up, fellas? What's up? Yeah, I know. I was listening the other day, and I know Alan is not gonna want to hear this. I'm a die hard fan. I watch every game. I do not overreact. But I gave fibs 50, 60 games of leash to show me improvement on this team. And here we are, and we're still trying to figure things out. It's crazy to me, and I can't seem to fathom it and put it together. And when Brunson got hurt, I said, I told all my friends, I have a Knicks chat with 15 guys that we're all really into this. And I said, this is a blessing in disguise because this team has been depending on Jalen Brunson. Like, if we don't have anybody else that can perform. And you see it in the way guys play, you see it in the results. And it's, we're back almost the same thing again. And it's like, are we ever going to play like a team? Jalen Brunson leads the league in dribbles per possession and holding the ball for possession. And we're supposed to be like a top heavy team that shares the ball. I don't get it. And it's just, are we going to try to start Mitch at least anything, or can we try a change?

[Don LaGreca]

Alex? So you want to bench Kar Anthony Towns for Mitchell Robinson as a starter? Is that the first? Is that, Is that what you're suggesting? So take, take the guy who gives you 25 and 15 and puts pressure on the opposing team's defense and you want. Oh, we hung up on him. I wanted to keep them because there were several things I wanted to ask him in this group chat. I want to go in this group chat and talk to everybody because, like, like this is, you know, he said, I'm a reasonable fan. You're not being reasonable. First of all, it's the same thing. And when are they going to get it right? And the offense is supposed to be this, you know, passing up. They are top five in the league in assists for the. They're averaging more assists per game than they ever have in franchise history, but they have, they're scoring more points than they have in like 30, 50 years. Right. The offense is not the problem, guys. It might look it right now because it's been Disjointed with Brunson's injury and everything else. But it just goes back to the defense. The defense, the defense, the defense, the defense. And if you want to say anything about Tom Thibodeau and all the fans that. The fans that want to, you know, say anything. All right. Alex is back. Alex, I don't know if you heard anything I just said there, but I heard something.

[Alan Hahn]

I heard some of it.

[Don LaGreca]

All right, well, you and your group chat. I would love to jump in this group chat because I need to let you guys know offense is not where your, your focus should be. This is a team that for most of the season has been a top three offense and a top five assists. The ball move.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm not, I'm not worried.

[Don LaGreca]

I'm not worried about all your concern. The other end of the floor is your concern. That's your concern. And put any pressure on Tom Thibodeau. That's where you put it. Is, Is it personnel or is it scheme? And I gotta think with the history of this coach, it feels like personnel. That's. That's what I was.

[Alan Hahn]

Now. So now my question is. Because Hart already came out and said I would go on the bench in a second for Mitch. He said it.

[Don LaGreca]

Do you want to start the big one?

[Alan Hahn]

Why has.

[Don LaGreca]

That's an option. But it's an option. I, I don't.

[Alan Hahn]

Why don't we try it? We don't even try it.

[Don LaGreca]

Oh, no. They played together a lot.

[Alan Hahn]

They've played together a little bit. Not a lot. They've had some runs and it's been good.

[Don LaGreca]

But you also have to balance it. I guess you got to balance it. You. It's the only two centers you have. Who's your backup center now?

[Alan Hahn]

You start.

[Don LaGreca]

Mitchell Robinson.

[Alan Hahn]

So here, so here's my theory, right? We know we can't run Mitchell.

[Don LaGreca]

Alex, wait. Alex, stop. I asked you a question. Because you want to start now. Two seven footers, who's your backup center when they go to the bench to get their rest?

[Alan Hahn]

The. The. The only other option we have is precious. And we know that it's not the.

[Don LaGreca]

Greatest, but he's six, eight.

[Alan Hahn]

But Mitch, Mitch isn't playing for eight minutes either, Right. Mitch is only playing for five, six minutes at a time.

[Don LaGreca]

Right?

[Alan Hahn]

So if you. So if you do that and you start Mitch, you can take him out at this at the six minute mark, Right? Right.

[Don LaGreca]

And then run for the full quarter, play the whole.

[Alan Hahn]

Not the full, not the full. Running for 8, 10 minutes. He can do that.

[Don LaGreca]

So he's 8.

[Alan Hahn]

And then bring Mitch back.

[Don LaGreca]

What do you do? This is 12 minutes and a quarter. Then what?

[Alan Hahn]

Then you bring Mitch back in with fresh legs again. He just sat for 10 minutes. 50 minutes. And you can get as much as you can get out of Mitch because you can't run him for long times.

[Don LaGreca]

Okay? So. All right. So, Alex, I know that you are not then a member of the Fraternal Order of Minutes Police, right? You're not one of these guys that worries about minutes. You're all about make them play 38 to 40. Both of them.

[Alan Hahn]

No, not.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Not at all.

[Alan Hahn]

Because if you play Mitch in five minute spurts, that means that you can get 25 max 30 minutes. I'm not counting on 30 minutes.

[Don LaGreca]

Alex, have you ever played basketball? Alex, have you ever played basketball? So. So if. If I was coaching you when there's five minutes on the clock, I took you out and sat you down, sat you for 10 minutes and then sent you back out for another five minutes. You'd love that. You'd be in great rhythm, right?

[Bart Scott]

What are we talking about here? Alex?

[Don LaGreca]

I just. Noel, I. I tried. Like, I, you know, I'm not trying not to nick splain. I'm really, I'm really aware of this, guys. But there are some times when a fan calls in and has the bright idea, right? You gotta like just let them know all the way.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's not. It's a little hairbrained. It's just not all the way through.

[Don LaGreca]

It's the easy way because you just want to think of something, anything better than the this, right? So you think you have the plan, but you, you gotta know how it works. And you're not just dealing with minutes. You're dealing with egos and player rhythm. There's so much more to this than just cinema. It's not CYO basketball where you're telling the fourth grader, come out and Jimmy goes in. Now it doesn't work like that. Lowe's is the destination for EGO outdoor power equipment this spring. See what's new and exclusive like the 17 inch string trimmer with line IQ technology that auto feeds to save you time. And the 22 inch select cut self propelled mowers with a multi blade system for precise cutting. Shop EGO days happening now during Spring fest at Lowe's we help you save. Selection varies by location while supplies last.

[Bart Scott]

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[Don LaGreca]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Don LaGreca]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. Let's give you a Yankees starting lineup brought to you by Certapro Painters. And we hope to get the game in tonight. The weather is not looking great, but still we have the Yankees tonight. Paul Goldschmidt leading off playing first. Ben Rice is the DH batting second and three hole, Aaron Judge and right, Cody Bellinger in the cleanup left field. Anthony Volpe is the shortstop, Jazz Chisholm at second. Austin Wells is catching. Oswald Peraza. The third baseman, Trent Grisham rounds out the lineup. In center field, on the mound, Marcus Stroman. Well, there you go. That is the Yankees starting lineup. It is brought to you by Certapro Painters. When choosing a painting professional for your home or business, the choice is simple. Choose happy. Choose certapro Painters. I don't know boys, if we're getting this one in tonight, it doesn't look.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like it, it doesn't feel like it.

[Don LaGreca]

I mean the Giants, you know, again this is probably their only, well, I guess they'd be in New York to play the Mets, but still cross country like this, you want to make sure you get these games in and they're really good. This would be a great weekend if we had nice weather. Great weekend of baseball.

[Bart Scott]

Well, I, I you normally I'd be working some angle to kind of get Nancy in there but you know, she doesn't want to sit in in this, in this weather. You know, especially with the kids. I think they'll probably call tonight's game. I think there's still room for two tomorrow because I think it's supposed to clear up like late, like in the afternoon and I think we can definitely get at least one in tomorrow, maybe a double header on Sunday. I don't think there's any chance. I'd rather, wouldn't you rather see that than to see like nobody in the building. Have long rain delays. Was a Phillies, Phillies Braves the other night. 3 hour rain delay. Game ends at 1 o'clock in the morning. What are we doing?

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah yeah it's just got to get the game in. Yeah, you're right by. By noon tomorrow. The. The rain supposed to taper off but still a chance. Still a decent chance of rain throughout the day. But all this going to be tonight into tomorrow morning rain wise anyway here.

[Peter Rosenberg]

In New York it's. It's just been a wonderful time weather.

[Don LaGreca]

Wise just always is. We just got to get to June, then it feels normal again. June baseball like it ought to be. I'm looking forward to talking to CC Sabathia that coming up in the 4 o'clock hour. Hall of Famer and lots to talk to with him not just on. On the Yankees. I'm curious what he thinks about the Knicks. Yeah, he loves. He loves the NBA so he's a. Plenty of talks with him. Let's get going to get a few more calls in here from the Knick people.

[Bart Scott]

Yes, sure.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let me see who's gonna get Don. Who here do you think will get Al the most angry? That's kind of what I'm looking for.

[Don LaGreca]

I'm trying so hard guys to stay calm today. Man, I got in late, I'm tired. I got a game tonight.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's see now this is. How about. How about Rob in Brooklyn? I like Rob's point. Let's hear from Rob. All right, what do you got, buddy?

[Alan Hahn]

Hey guys. All right, thanks for taking my call first of all. All right, so a few things, hearing all these Knicks calls have me fired up. I wish sometimes that I could just sit down with Tibbs after a game for like 45 minutes and have a conversation with him because I'm not even mad at him. I just have questions that I want answers to. So in the third quarter last night, their lineup was Delon Wright, Landry, Shammit, Campaign, PJ Tucker and Press and Precious. That's when Detroit took a big lead. Kind of felt like they just gave up after that. And I'm kind of curious was. Is that. Was that by design? Were we lulling Detroit into a false sense of security, not showing them our full hand or.

[Don LaGreca]

I don't know the point of the game you're talking about. You said they took a big lead, the score was tied, it was 85 all going into the fourth quarter. Right.

[Alan Hahn]

But it. They tied it back up. Not with that lineup. Unless. Am I misremembering?

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah. Campaign was out there. Delon Wright, Precious. Achua went out of the game with a minute to go and that's when Towns came In. But that was all. Yeah, that was. Shamet came in. Yeah. Payne, all those names I just gave you. It was Towns that ended up playing with them. But they were, they were tied. They were tied. And in fact, the Knicks had, I think, a four point lead. I think it was early fourth quarter. It was at least a four point lead at that point. Before then, things really did start to turn. The Pistons offense just started clicking and the Knicks couldn't stop him. Diana, what's the point, though? Yeah, what are you wondering? So you're, you're thinking like, he's empty. He's emptying the bench. Like, all right, we're going to shut this down. We're not really going to try to win this thing.

[Alan Hahn]

No, I'm not even, like, not trying to win necessarily, but just not showing our full hand or just making.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah. Rob, he'll never, you know, if we're gonna play.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. If we're gonna play Detroit, like, I don't know.

[Don LaGreca]

There is some.

[Alan Hahn]

There's some different things at them. Make them think. Throw some curveballs, make them think something.

[Don LaGreca]

I don't know about it. I don't know about that.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't know.

[Don LaGreca]

Yeah, I get it. No, but he'll never say this stuff publicly. So you could say, why didn't the media ask him? Because we. Because when you ask him, you know, he's not going to tell you. He's not going to say it because he doesn't want to. He's not going to say, you know, we kept Jalen under 30 minutes tonight because we really don't want to play him a lot. You know, like. Like we. He played 29 minutes. Towns played 29 minutes. Like, those two guys didn't play as much as they normally would. If they were trying to, you know, if they were really all in on the game, they were controlling minutes. Towns had trouble, but still, so. And you know, you know, of all.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Qualities, Allen, of all. Of all qualities, you know how hard it is for Tibbs to admit he.

[Don LaGreca]

Didn'T want to play someone.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Minutes.

[Don LaGreca]

I was. He was.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's like saying he hates one of his children. He doesn't want to bring it.

[Don LaGreca]

Probably the whole game. There were times he would just turn and look and you would see it. He just wanted to yell, jalen. And it's like all the assistant coaches would just. Nope, nope, it's not happening. They brought him in late to see if he can win it in clutch time. It just, you know, it didn't happen.

[Peter Rosenberg]

By the way, another reason that for the last couple of weeks. We talked about this before Jalen came back, even though it hasn't reaped any benefits so far and he hasn't looked great in those spots. I just think it's important, Allen, that he keeps getting his legs. He keeps getting minutes, keeps getting more comfortable. So you hope that by the time they get to the playoffs, if they end up in a situation like they did yesterday, and it could literally be the same situation against the same team in the same building in the same spot, that all of a sudden he looks like the Jalen Brunson you expected to see in that spot.

[Don LaGreca]

Superstars take it up a level in the playoffs. Brunson has proven that in the past. I don't like it's already there. You've seen it. So I have no doubt in my mind that he'll be at a different level when it's when it's go time in the post season. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.