Hour 1: Alan's Reaper Powers

Summary

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Don, Hahn & Rosenberg

Episode: Hour 1 - "Alan's Reaper Powers"
Date: November 13, 2025
Hour 1 Summary

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Main Theme

The first hour of this episode is largely a tribute to legendary New York Post hockey writer Larry Brooks, who passed away at 75. The trio—Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, and Peter Rosenberg—reflect on Brooks' profound impact on sports journalism, especially hockey coverage, sharing personal anecdotes and discussing how media consumption is evolving. The episode then turns toward local sports, including the Knicks' recent loss, injury updates, and speculation about coaching futures for the Giants. Lively banter, irreverent humor, and the signature “New York Sports & More” energy set the tone.

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Key Discussion Points

Remembering Larry Brooks

[00:52–15:20]

• Announcement of Larry Brooks’ Passing
  • Don opens the hour with a eulogy for Larry Brooks, emphasizing his unmatched stature in hockey media:

    “No one did it better than he did. No one. And he is certainly gonna be missed.” (Don La Greca, 03:25)

  • Alan and Don share that access to Brooks—him even acknowledging you—was a sign of “making it” in the New York sports media world.
  • Hahn describes Larry as “the gold standard for American hockey writers” (Alan Hahn, 07:10) and recalls Brooks’ mentorship, how he would “nod” his respect rather than offer easy praise.
• Brooks’ Style and Personality
  • Brooks is portrayed as tough, no-nonsense, but deeply passionate and protective of hockey.
  • Don: “He didn't suffer fools. He didn't talk to just everybody...he was somebody of very few words. He did his job better than anybody.”
• Notable Anecdotes
  • Alan recalls Brooks defending his reporting (“so why does Newsday have non hockey foofs doing Rangers when you're available?” – Alan Hahn, 06:20)
  • The viral run-ins with John Tortorella: “He would stand there and continue to ask Torts those questions... and Torts almost respected it.” (Don La Greca, 13:57)
• Brooks as Mentor and Fixture
  • He fostered younger writers, took them under his wing, but “would never give you the easy way.”
  • Michael Kay comments on Brooks’ reach: “It's just not common these days that you have someone who still has that old school feel of completely synonymous with the sport.” (Michael Kay, 08:06)
• Wider Reflection
  • The group discusses how Brooks transcended the authenticity and legacy of the newspaper columnist in modern sports.

The “Reaper” Banter, Alan’s Knicks Mush, and Injury Fallout

[15:20–24:33]

• Alan’s “reaper” or “mush” status is playfully dissected—hinting that his optimism is bad luck for his favorite teams:
  • Don jokes: “If you did and you realize what he did, then you would have bet heavy on Orlando last year...” (15:48)
• Discussion shifts to Jalen Brunson’s ankle injury:
  • Alan breaks down the situation, reporting Brunson’s boot is “standard operating procedure,” with no break, but “it's always about what does it feel like the next day.” (18:03)
  • They debate whether Brunson should have been in the game with under two minutes left, reviewing NBA norms for benching starters during blowouts or likely losses.
  • Michael points out, “In basketball, you're down 15 ... Five minutes left. Doable. Four minutes left. Still doable. Three minutes. It can. And also two. It's basically over.” (20:51)

The Changing Landscape of Sports Media and Journalism

[29:33–38:42]

• Don and Alan reflect on the shifting landscape of sports news—increasingly digital, less tactile, and with shrinking newspaper influence.
  • Don laments: “We joke about it, but...just where we get our information now. Are people reading newspapers the way they did before?” (29:33)
  • Alan regrets modern paywalls, popups, and the loss of print’s tangibility: “I just want to read the frickin story. Right?”
  • Michael Kay: “If you're someone who's in the world of sports and you're a blossoming opinion or tastemaker... you're also gonna be on television and radio, the world of you just being a writer ... If you're younger than 40...” (32:08)
• The group details the nostalgic pleasure of Sunday mornings with a physical paper, united in their belief that the era is fading fast.

Giants Coaching Future, NFL Spin, and Fan Speculation

[38:42–48:49]

• Discussion turns to the uncertain futures of Giants coordinators, especially Shane Bowen and Mike Kafka:
  • Jokes about Tecmo Bowl as “rehab” for bad defensive coordinators, with Michael adding, “they need to go away for a year, spend time, learn. Start from the beginning, play Tecmo Bowl.” (39:16)
  • Don lays out a scenario where Kafka could win the head coaching position if results improve, observing the dynamics between interim coaches, quarterback preference, and owner John Mara’s situation.
  • “They're giving him a Hell of a Runway. Seven games.” (Don La Greca, 47:12)
  • Lively debate over whether this is plausible and if continuity is optimal for the franchise moving forward.
• Conversation ends with a playful challenge to name more obscure NFC East coaches, and laughs over relics like Jim Tomsula and Richie Pettibone.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Don La Greca on Brooks’ influence:

  “But you didn't feel like you were a part of it unless you got the nod or the conversation with Larry Brooks. Then you felt like you arrived.” (03:06)

• Alan Hahn on Brooks’ mentorship:

  “He would show you the way without giving you the easy way.” (08:28)

• Michael Kay on Brooks’ reputation:

  “It's just not common these days that you have someone who still has that old school feel of completely synonymous with the sport.” (08:06)

• Alan Hahn’s “Reaper” moment:

  “Every time I would have enthusiasm about any one of my teams, you'd hear the song [Don’t Fear the Reaper], and I would say, you're right. And so he didn't stop me.” (16:24)

• Listener Call (Manny) on Larry Brooks:

  “Rest in peace for that, that hockey, that hockey reporter Larry, also Mike, also Larry Brooks and also recipes to Lenny Wilkins and Michael Ray Richardson.” (25:01)

• Mike Brown (Kings Coach) soundbite:

  “If we're a no excuse team, we gotta go play the right way best we can and not lay the blame anyplace else except square on us.” (26:42)

• Alan on consuming news:

  “When you grab a newspaper from the newspaper stand, it's actually relaxing, there's no anxiety or pop ups. And I'm wondering ... is the written word almost dead now?” (31:45)

• Michael Kay on continuity and change:

  “Continuity’s better. So if it works with Kafka and it works with Shane and Mara's dealing with his health stuff, we move forward for another year.” (47:44)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:52–15:20]: Larry Brooks tribute, anecdotes, and Brooks' legacy
• [15:20–24:33]: Alan’s “mush” powers, Knicks loss, and Brunson injury debate
• [24:58–29:33]: Callers, more on Brooks, and how Knicks and coaches are covered
• [29:33–38:42]: Changing media landscape: print vs. digital, nostalgia for newspapers
• [38:42–48:49]: Giants coaching carousel, Kafka speculation, NFL jokes, and obscure coach trivia

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Tone & Flow

As always, the show is marked by camaraderie, quick-witted asides, and a mix of reverence and irreverence. The hosts manage to make inside-baseball sports talk accessible—even for non-initiates—by seamlessly blending personal stories, asides on life and media, and listener participation.

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In Short:
Hour 1 is heartfelt and highly entertaining—a testament to a sports journalism titan, full of color and rich context for today's sports scene, laced with signature DHR humor and New York attitude.

Transcript

[Don La Greca]

Don, give me a piece of wood, I'll eat it.

[Alan Hahn]

Han, Peter, the most used sweat is at a buffet.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And Rosenberg.

[Michael Kay]

I'll be honest, the one thing I miss about having an office is the taste of Steve Hart's nuts.

[Don La Greca]

This isn't North Dakota. This is New York.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is Don, Han and Rosenberg.

[Don La Greca]

The best threesome I've ever heard on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

ESPN New York and streaming live on YouTube.

[Don La Greca]

3 o' clock at the big city. Don, Han and Rosenberg on a Thursday as we get deeper into the month of November. So much to get into. And we'll get into all of it. The basketball as Allen Hahn was a mush for the Knicks last night. A great night of hockey for the Rangers and the Devils. We've got a football game tonight. Jets, Patriots. Jets trying for their first three game winning streak in two years. Are you playing it? Thirteen and a half. Nice and juicy. Big steak dinner right there. What do you think? Thirteen and a half.

[Michael Kay]

I'm gonna ponder it.

[Don La Greca]

All right. While you're figuring out your microphone.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

We'll move on to something else.

[Michael Kay]

Well, my mic's all on. What the hell's the matter with.

[Don La Greca]

Listen, it's not your fault.

[Michael Kay]

It's not.

[Don La Greca]

Oh, it wasn't on. There's a lot going. Apparently. 3 o' clock came as a huge surprise to everybody.

[Alan Hahn]

All of us. We were shocked. We were having delicious trail mix.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, really. It was the good trail mix. Although I don't understand why Alan thinks it was good because there was no raisins. I like a good raisin in the trail mix. Yeah, yeah.

[Michael Kay]

I don't trail mix. I don't mind raisins.

[Don La Greca]

But Alan made it seem like less raisins, better trail mix.

[Alan Hahn]

You're completely misrepresenting. What I was saying was, is on a day like today, that kind of trail mix where it's just simply almonds, cashews and chocolate would get right to the point.

[Don La Greca]

Right to the point.

[Alan Hahn]

Like, why have all the extras in it? I don't need it all. That's all I need. The sweet and the salty.

[Michael Kay]

No, it's a beautiful.

[Alan Hahn]

That's where I am today. I'm sweet, but I'm a little salty.

[Michael Kay]

Solo salty. I get it.

[Don La Greca]

So we'll get into all of it. But we start with a heavy heart today as we lost in my mind, and I believe Alan and Peter will agree, a legend in the journalism business. And that is Larry Brooks. We had gotten word he was not well at the start of the NHL season and he sent out a note that he was not going to be covering the beginning of the year. And Alan and I reached out to him, and he said he was in a fight, but he was up for the fight. So I was a little taken aback today when I had learned that he had passed away at the age of 75. Alan and I got to know him professionally and personally. And as hockey guys, I think, Alan, you'll agree you can get your credential, you can get your job. You belong in the arena, you belong in the game. But you didn't feel like you were a part of it unless you got the nod or the conversation with Larry Brooks. Then you felt like you arrived. And that's how I felt. I'm calling Ranger games. I'm on the charter. And I didn't feel like I was a part of it until I'd walk into the Garden and Larry would nod his head and say, hello, Don. Or on the rare occasion, but appreciated nonetheless, he'd have a question or want to include you in the conversation. Then you felt like, all right, I must be someone. Because Larry didn't suffer fools. He didn't talk to just everybody. He was a great guy, don't get me wrong. But he was somebody of very few words. He did his job better than anybody. And if you were included in a Larry Brooks conversation, you felt privileged to be a part of that conversation. He lived and breathed hockey. And I will. I'll do this where I'll say, one of the best. And when you say one of the best, you're covering your ass just in case somebody says to you, oh, you don't think I'm the best? And I said, one of the best. I'm including you. No, I'm gonna say this with all the confidence in the world. He was the best hockey writer, period. He was the best because he put in the work, he did the time. So no one did it better than he did. No one. And he is certainly gonna be missed. I know he's been missed at the Garden this year. I'm going to miss seeing him. And it's really a shame that we lost him at only 75 years old.

[Alan Hahn]

He's a guy that, when I left the hockey beat to go to basketball, maintained a connection with me that I never expected because, you know, you move on to another sport, you know, you're outside of it, and all that stuff. And he would just consistently reach out, remark on things that I was reporting and all that stuff. And so that. That right away made you feel like, okay, so it's more than Just, you know, business relationship. Right. Like he actually cared. You talk about the nod. I always joke about this, and it's something I'll never forget because I tweeted something earlier today about how when. When I was a young hockey writer and I came in, that was my first beat, first experience. I'm wet behind the ears, can't even pee straight. Yeah. I'm covering an NHL team. He walked in the locker room. And you were intimidated.

[Don La Greca]

Oh, yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Because now you're like, I know he's gonna have something now. And I gotta be on my P's and Q's because, you know, I don't know what he's gonna have. I better be on alert. And there was also times where, you know, as I found my way, I had a couple of still big stories, and I had one I'll never forget that really caused a lot of trouble. Like, I was. I was getting heat in the locker room for it. You know, I was public enemy number one. He happened to show up that day, and he gave me the Boba Fett nod. Star wars fans know what I'm talking about. It's sort of like this is a scene in Empire Strikes Back where. So I know I'm being nerdy, but that's all right. This is emotional, but it's. It's that nod where he just did this. Not. It's all, you call my eye. And just nodded as if to say, like, I respect you. And that right there, I'm like, okay. Like, wow. I got a nod from him. Like, this guy. So it just gave you that kind of vote of confidence? He sent me after I. Again, I'm covering the NBA. The Knicks weren't good. They weren't in the playoffs. The Rangers war. I saved this text. I was going through texts that he and I had over the years, and the one that made me laugh the most, Donnie, he said, so why does Newsday have non hockey foofs doing Rangers when you're available?

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, that's why.

[Alan Hahn]

This news, that's him saying to me, you're more qualified as a basketball guy to be here doing this stuff than the people they're sending to back up whoever wasn't able to go that.

[Michael Kay]

Right, right.

[Alan Hahn]

And it was just, again, it's like, that's Larry. Right? That's Larry.

[Don La Greca]

And I'm just. He would DM the show all the time. Something I said. I'm just looking back, he DM like, DM me about the show.

[Michael Kay]

Oh, yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

He listened.

[Don La Greca]

And he was the one thing we butted heads on is a salary cap. He does not believe in a salary.

[Alan Hahn]

Yep.

[Don La Greca]

And I'm just looking at this one from December 2020. So it's the meat and the pandemic. Come on. With the salary cap, you think NHL players have a partnership with the league. It is destructive on every level. And then my best to you and Michael and Peter, whom I don't know.

[Alan Hahn]

Be safe, guys, whom I don't know. I love that he's known for hockey like he. He is. He is the best. He is the gold standard. American hockey writers. Gold standard. I mean, there's Red Fisher, there's a lot of others that are there as the Canadians, but he is, as an American, the gold standard. But you know what? He loved to moonlight when the season was over. Baseball. Yeah, he loved covering and writing about baseball. Loved being there. I think he liked being in the clubhouse and being part of the comp. Like just. I think it just, you know, got his juices going. But he was a. Just again, a sports writer at heart. He did spend some time doing some broadcasting. He did a lot of stuff with the Devils. He did some pr. So he was in the business a long time. He's a titan and he's going to be missed. And hockey in New York will never be the same without his coverage, by the way.

[Michael Kay]

And of course, it's being written about everywhere. I mean, this isn't just a big deal in the Post, the New York Times, everywhere is writing about Larry Brooks. I mean, it's just not common these days that you have someone who still has that old school feel of completely synonymous with the sport. When this guy says it, it means something. There are a few of them, but he, when it comes to hockey, he's the one.

[Alan Hahn]

The old school bulldog type mentality, but also the passion for the sport some writers are accused of. You hate your sport or you just want the. You're just trying to make headlines for yourself. You don't care what it does to the sport. No one cared more about the sport and the passion that he had for it. But that's why he was such a bulldog, because the truth was important. What he believed in, what was important. And like, I'm one of them. I know Molly Walker is certainly somebody that way more than I am. But he, if he liked you, if he respected you as a young sportswriter, he would take you under his wing and he would. He would show you the way without giving you the easy way. You know, he wasn't telling you secrets. He just would be there to let you Know, like, here's. Here's how it's done or what you did there. I respect it. And that's also something very important as you get older, is you make sure that next generation, each one teach one. And he had that mentality as a mentor later in life. He was the president of the phwa, Professional Hockey Riders association for a couple of years while I was a hockey rider. He wanted me to be the chapter president in New York. And then he said to me, I want you on the executive committee. And I did that for one year. And then they moved him out and they brought in somebody else, and I was like, I'm done. So he cared a lot about his. About the sport he covered, and that's also what makes a great sports show.

[Don La Greca]

And he was the biggest critic of the sport as well, because of the love for that.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Don La Greca]

And for the Rangers. Grew up a Ranger fan and as you said, work for the Devils in their PR department. If you look back at the classic video of Eating of the Donut Fat Boy, the altercation between Jim Schoenfeld and. And Don Kolharski, you see a young, spectacled Larry Brooks kind of in the middle of that whole thing. And then he eventually did color on radio.

[Alan Hahn]

Always be in the right place to hear that.

[Don La Greca]

The thing with.

[Alan Hahn]

With Eisner, you remember the Devil's Game seven when he's planning the parade.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Don La Greca]

And he wrote about it.

[Alan Hahn]

And Eisner denied it. Denied it. And then, of course, the Devil's was it. Who was the Burns who used it as, like, the rally cry of, oh, they're already planning the parade.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

And then the Devils end up winning that. And then someone found audio of Eisner saying it, which proved Larry right.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah. No, he was.

[Alan Hahn]

How is he always in the right.

[Don La Greca]

Place at the right time? Well, he was just. He had the instincts of a really, truly great reporter.

[Alan Hahn]

And, of course, Mark Messier's guarantee. That's his story. Right, Right. Yeah.

[Michael Kay]

Speaking of Messier, I don't know if you guys read the stuff from Gretzky, but, you know, Gretzky's already spoken and poured his heart out about what Larry Brooks meant. He said. He said, we were friends in those days. Players weren't ashamed to call writers friends, and the writers weren't afraid to call the players friends. We all shared the common language. We all wanted to talk about hockey 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and nobody knew more than Larry. And that friendship continued all the way up until recent Times. Shortly before his Passing now, of course.

[Alan Hahn]

All that stuff happened before league started putting limitations on locker room access and all this stuff where you could develop those relationships, because now it's a lot harder to spend that kind of time around the player to get to know them, because the access now is so much more limited to what it used to be.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, for sure. And of course, the other thing that Larry's known for that went viral at the time is his altercations with John Tortorella. But people also need to know that John did reach out to him in the last few days of his life. They reconciled, he stayed in touch with him. So even though they had their battles and they had battles, believe me, they almost came to blows, is that they still connected and towards being the good guy that he is, made sure that he had reached out to Larry in his final days. And I've talked to reporters that are intimidated, like they're afraid. They're like be like, you know, the coach is getting on me. Obviously, you know, the Jet reporters are going through it with how Aaron Glenn's kind of treated them and John Tortorella over the years. And I always tell them, and this is the way Larry was, hey, I'm doing my job. My job is to ask questions you want. You have a problem with it, that's on you. I'm going to still be here. I'm still going to ask the question. I'm not going away. You're not intimidating me from doing my job. You were born to be a coach or a player. I was born to be a journalist. I'm here. I'm asking the questions. If you want to yell at me, if you want to intimidate me, go ahead. But it's my job. Never be intimidated to do your job. So that's what I would say to any young reporter. And Larry was perfect for that because he'd stand there and continue to ask Torts those questions. And Torts almost respected it to a point where it's like, this guy's not going away. And believe me, he got into it. That altercation was not when he was the Rangers coach. That was during the 04 final when he was the Lightning coach. I remember now, now he knew him from when he was the interim coach with the Rangers, you know, but, you know, still every day when. When Torts took the job, he knew, I'm going to have to deal with Larry every day. He's going to be there all the time, you know, and there was this respect that was built there. I'm so happy that in the Penguins run, in the Rangers run in 22, when they went to the conference final against Tampa, I got to go and do games in Pittsburgh, and we had dinner together in Pittsburgh. And then in the most recent run to the conference final, the first round against Washington, I did the last three games, and we had dinner in Washington. And that's where he would kind of let his hair down a little bit, and he'd tell the story, the old stories about the Devils, and he would ask me about the K show because, as you said, big Yankee fan. So he always. Or a big baseball guy. And he always wanted to kind of. He always was fascinated about radio and. And all that stuff. So I'm glad I got to spend the time with him that I did. One of the very few negatives of not covering the Rangers anymore and doing the devil gig was not seeing Larry as much as knowing that I wasn't going to see him until. Rangers are playing the Devils in March.

[Alan Hahn]

For God's sake.

[Don La Greca]

Their first meetings in March. There's only three of them. But then when I saw that he was sick, we had to reach out. We talked about it off the air. You reached out, so I'm glad that we did have those moments. So rest in peace, my friend. You're definitely going to be missed.

[Michael Kay]

And 75, far too young.

[Don La Greca]

It is. And he had so much more to give. And Molly's. Molly has been with him for a long time, doing a tremendous job in the New York Post. So I don't think Post readers and hockey fans are going to miss a beat with Molly, because Molly's tremendous.

[Alan Hahn]

Yes.

[Don La Greca]

But those are big shoes to fill Molly. She knows that. She tweeted out how heartbroken she was over this, but, you know, you'll be covered from a hockey standpoint. But he was the best man, so we're going to miss him. And for people that weren't hockey fans, we still wanted to take that moment to open up. Even Michael talked about it today, saying he's not a hockey fan. But if he saw Larry Brooks on the byline, he's read it because he was such a brilliant rider and he connected with the. With the fans in such a special way. So rest in peace. We've got a mush to our right here, Peter.

[Michael Kay]

Well, yeah, no, no. Fear of the reaper. Fear the reaper.

[Don La Greca]

This is not. This is.

[Michael Kay]

Don't fear the reaper. I say fear the reaper.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, I. I really. I'm mad at myself for not knowing better.

[Michael Kay]

No, I'm mad at myself. I listened to you do the whole thing. And I didn't. I didn't really stop what you. I slowed it down a at the end because Alan was talking about, you want to win big, you want to do this. And I just added at the end, well, you want to win. You want to make sure you win.

[Don La Greca]

But you knew that he was a mush, right?

[Michael Kay]

You know, I wasn't even thinking about.

[Don La Greca]

It for some point, but. But if you did and you realize what he did, then you would have bet heavy on Orlando last year and you would have done it with.

[Michael Kay]

I'll be honest, I did not realize till we started texting today that he has this deep a history as the mo.

[Alan Hahn]

I blame Anthony, right?

[Don La Greca]

But he knows.

[Michael Kay]

He knows deep.

[Alan Hahn]

And when I talk to Anthony and Don when I was going into the Garden yesterday and I was trying to convince them about how this is the time that we should spend on, like, acknowledging what the Knicks are doing right now and how good they are and 30, you know, 130 points these three straight games, blah, blah, blah.

[Michael Kay]

Oh, Anthony should have stopped and Anthony.

[Don La Greca]

We should have put him in the bathroom.

[Alan Hahn]

Anthony's the right. You should have. You right in the bathroom because Anthony's the guy that's. That was with me at night doing those shows at night that knew about this, that would play the Reaper song. Every time I. Every time I would have enthusiasm about any one of my teams, you'd hear the song, and I would say, you're right. And so he didn't stop me.

[Don La Greca]

I blame you, Anthony, and I blame Anthony, and I blame Peter, knowing that you were a mush and yet didn't go to FanDuel and bet the magic.

[Michael Kay]

Well, here's the thing. I could have done that, though, and maybe on Thursday I could do it, because tonight's the night. If you want to hit the jackpot.

[Don La Greca]

On FanDuel, tonight's the night we'll make history.

[Michael Kay]

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[Don La Greca]

467-369 all right, they lose the game. So what in the grand scheme of things. But where do we stand right now? Alan Dead with with Bronson.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm waiting for a team announcement. If there's an announcement, if there's some type of information today that probably doesn't sound good. If we hear nothing today, it might suggest to me that it leads into Coe feels on Friday morning maybe a game time decision which feels a little less serious. Right? He did limp off the court right by me. He did walk down the hall. I was there with the other rest of the media. So everybody saw he had crutches. He had a boot on the right foot which is I think standard operating procedure when you have a leg injury and it, you know is fairly significant is that they want to make sure it's in a boot for the night that you're not putting pressure on it. And they all it's always about what does it feel like, look like the next day. He certainly got treatment immediately. X rays were negative so at least there's no break or anything like that. Which can happen sometimes when it the way that turned was pretty tough. Now remember it's the same ankle that he injured late last season. And so that's also something to keep in mind. But he had said from the off season and at the start of the season the ankle was not an issue. So it's not as if he carried that over. It just happens to be the same ankle. Now there was about, I think it was under two minutes to go as a 16 point game. Do we have an issue with him still being in the game? I'll remind you there was. There were guys at the scorers table and Mike Brown was planning on waving the white flag at that point but Brunson decided he was going to take it all the way to the basket and that's when the injury happened. But do we, you know, is there an issue with that part of it? Because they were really, I think they cut it to 10 like they tried to make a comeback but never really could turn it into a real comeback.

[Don La Greca]

I don't know. What is there? Do coaches have kind of a guide? All right, this is when I call off the dogs. Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Usually when you can see that your team just can't get enough stops. Can't get a stop. And you.

[Don La Greca]

So it isn't, it isn't a matter of points or time. It's just feel that I think we're done.

[Alan Hahn]

We've seen 10 point leads disappear in a minute. We've seen this happen.

[Michael Kay]

When you're, when your best player goes down in a heap, though, that's definitively when you know it's time.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, of course it was at that point, but. But the problem is that should he.

[Don La Greca]

Have been there to fall down?

[Alan Hahn]

There is some school of thought late last night, walking out with some members of the media and some were like, you know, you know, why was he still in the game? You know, they weren't coming back to win this game. And I was like, but in the NBA, like, you're, you're three shots away from it being a two point game.

[Don La Greca]

It's, it's a blurry.

[Michael Kay]

They, they had cut it, I'd say with like seven, six or seven.

[Alan Hahn]

Got it to 10.

[Michael Kay]

Got us like 10.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Michael Kay]

Hit a couple threes, cat. Hit one, you start. It can happen so quick. So this isn't like football. A team's down 21 points late. It's over.

[Alan Hahn]

Yep.

[Michael Kay]

I'm sorry. In basketball, you're down 15 to your point. Five minutes left. Doable. Four minutes left. Still doable. Three minutes. It can. And also two. It's basically over.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, but this was a.

[Michael Kay]

But right above 2. Right.

[Alan Hahn]

So it was, it was right. Yeah, it was. Well, right before. Right. There was. You could have called the time out there.

[Michael Kay]

Right. Under two.

[Alan Hahn]

I think they scored and then he came like it was right under two.

[Michael Kay]

That. The fact that it happened.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. And he, he just, he was. First of all, you could tell he was playing angry because late in that game, like he was doing a lot of, a lot of matching physicality stuff, which was a major problem for the Knicks last night, which is you talk about, by the way, some red flags last night that we'll talk about, but he looked like he was almost like possessed with drawing contact and hitting people and scoring. Like he was pissed off about the way the game was going. And you could see it in his eyes. How, how much. And every time he scored, he looked to the baseline ref who decided it must have left his whistle in the locker room. The guy didn't call a foul the whole game. And he just kept staring at him and he was like yelling. You could just see that he was somewhere else. And that's when, if you're a coach, you just like, all right, we got to calm down.

[Michael Kay]

Too much energy. It's not going the right way.

[Alan Hahn]

We're not going the right way. And I just need to, I need to dial you back. It's second. Yeah, well, so I, I was, I'm just asking that from, again, those who are watching, if there's that sense of why was he still in the game.

[Don La Greca]

At that point, that's always going to be the conversation.

[Alan Hahn]

But you never want to take your best player out when he doesn't want to come out either. No, it's a play.

[Don La Greca]

A little bit of a turnaround from yesterday, but still a bit. We'll keep an eye on it.

[Michael Kay]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don La Greca]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alan Hahn]

So what song is it?

[Don La Greca]

Is it Don't Fear the Reaper or Creeping Death? Because Creeping Death works for Alan, too. Creeping Death.

[Alan Hahn]

Can we not?

[Don La Greca]

I do like this. Oh, it's very good to ride the lightning out.

[Alan Hahn]

This is, this is like the mood I'm in today, too.

[Don La Greca]

Perfect. So let's hear from you. 1-800-919-3776 as we talked up the Knicks 24 hours ago, best team in the Eastern Conference, great start. And there's change. No, that didn't change. Of course not. But you know, a tough loss to Orlando and now Jalen Brunson will see if he can play tomorrow against Miami in the final game of the home stand. It's just the first loss of the year at home. It was just not what you want.

[Alan Hahn]

So 41 and oh, is not possible now.

[Michael Kay]

No.

[Don La Greca]

But you know what? Still get back on the horse against the banged up Miami team. But basically forget about the wins and losses. Just want to hope that Brunson's okay. It's not going to miss any time. It's 15 games because of a similar injury last year. You don't want to have to now wait to see him till Christmas. Would not be ideal again. 1-800-919-3776, Manning and Flushing, you get us started here on Don Hannah Rosenberg.

[Caller Manny]

Hey, guys, how y' all doing?

[Don La Greca]

Good man.

[Caller Manny]

Good man. Listen, rest in peace for that, that hockey, that hockey reporter Larry, also Mike, also Larry Brooks and also recipes to Lenny Wilkins and Michael Ray Richardson.

[Don La Greca]

Yes.

[Caller Manny]

You know, we give, I mean, the last few days we've been watching a lot of great, a lot of old.

[Michael Kay]

Paul Tagliabu in particular.

[Caller Manny]

Yeah, yeah, Paul Tagliabu. Because I think a lot of people don't realize that Lanny Wilkins was a pioneer, one of the first black superstars in the league, as well as one of the first black coaches in the league. That being said about the Knicks loss, listen, I think I just hope that the, the Brussels injury is not this series. When I found out it was the right ankle, I said, oh, Lord, not again what happened last March. But the one thing I get, I get ticked off is like every time when the Knicks lose is you have critics out there, whether social media or even tv, television, always like to get at Mike Brown, whether he's. Because I saw that treat. Ron, by the way, good tweet when he's honest about why they lost. I mean, I just. Listen, I don't care. At the end of the day, I just like when coaches are being honest. You know, I know people may not like Mike Hewitt, but he's an old school guy and that's what it is. I just hope the injury is okay, but I just, I just don't like that every time we lose, they look at Mike Brown and he's like Mike Brown as the fall guy.

[Alan Hahn]

But it's a. Now we, I think we have the sound that man, he's talking about, I think it's the back to back, no excuse line. If I'm right and Manny was talking about this.

[Michael Kay]

I got it.

[Don La Greca]

Here you go.

[Alan Hahn]

He was, he. He is not a coach that's going to like talk around things. He gets right to the point and he almost sends a message here about, oh, you want to say that it's tough to play a back to back and you can't play hard. The next night he says this, listen.

[Mike Brown]

We'Re a no excuse team. If we're a no excuse team, we gotta go play the right way best we can and not lay the blame anyplace else except square on us. So it doesn't matter if we play three games in a row. We gotta go figure it out. If we can't, maybe I need to go deeper into the bench and play guys lesser minutes. Maybe that's where I can help them. We can't sit here and say, well, we played last night and they did this. No, go win the game. Play the right way way. Leave it on the floor. Like, leave it on the floor the right way. You're not going to win them all the harder.

[Alan Hahn]

What he said was, already, you take.

[Mike Brown]

An L, we're going to the next one. I just didn't.

[Alan Hahn]

Because of what he said. I don't want it to get lost in the rest of the conversation. Him saying that's a message he's sending. Now I want to explain it. What he's saying is, oh, I'll have to go deeper to the bench, then play more guys and play you less. Guess what the issue was? What did Mike Brown say? You know, I was playing too many guys. I was, you know, short shifting guys. I had to change up. That was on me. He took the blame for early in the season when some of the players on the team weren't happy with their minutes and how, how frequently they were coming out of the game, right? So he adjusted and he's like, all right, how do you guys want it? Okay, I'll cut it to nine. We're only playing nine and you're going to play more, but you got to be ready. And what he's saying is, oh, well, you know what? If we can't play that way, I'll have to go back to doing it my way. So he's, he, he just right there with that statement, drew a line in the sand at some of the vets on this team that might not have been happy about him saying, I might want to play 10 or 11. So everybody's fresh. No, they don't want to do that because they don't want to lose their minutes. Okay, but then don't tell me you're tired in back to back, because then I'm going back to my way.

[Don La Greca]

But I don't know if the caller's right that there's been a narrative of blaming Mike Brown. Wasn't that the whole Tib?

[Alan Hahn]

That was Tibbs more than it was Mike Brown.

[Don La Greca]

They're playing too many. Oh, believe me, if Tibbs was coaching this team, that would be the first thing. We do have a full bank. Why is Brunson in the game playing him too many minutes? You know, it just shows you the injuries are going to happen. When do you call off the dogs? And also, if player wants to play, you're probably going to err on the side. All right, go out there and play, you know, so I wouldn't get too caught up. I understand it's a great question to ask. Should he have been out there? But hey, listen, game's not over till it's over. He wants to play and he got hurt. What are you gonna do? Let's go to Dan and Bud Lake. You're on espn, New York. What's up, Dan?

[Caller Dan]

Hey, Don. Great. Love your show. Doing a great job calling the Devils really quick with the Larry Brooks. You were right. When I heard your story, he was right in the middle of that whole Schoenfeld, Koharsky. He could even hear him trying to calm Schoenfeld down, saying Shoney, Shoney and whatnot. He did the. The color commentary with Dale Arnold that season and that whole nice playoff run and whatnot. So it's sad to hear him. That he passed today.

[Don La Greca]

Really was. Yeah, he was a great guy. That's what we wanted to open the show with it, because hockey fans get it. And even people that were not hockey fans, if they did dabble in hockey at all, was probably reading Larry Brooks because they trusted him and he always had great angles and great ways of looking at the sport of hockey. And listen, guys like that are going to be missed, man. We joke about it, but it's not really a joking matter as much anymore. Just where we get our information now. Are people reading newspapers the way they did before? Right. I mean, the New York Post right now, if you wanted to read it, if you didn't want to go to the newsstand to buy a post, you know, it's behind a firewall, a paywall on the website. I mean, a lot of people are not getting information from guys like Larry Brooks anymore. It just, it's a different way. You know, they're getting it on social media, they're getting it on television, the commentary that way. But there was a time where, you know, reading the newspaper was the way that you learned about sports, the way you got information. It's different now. So you wonder if somebody like Larry will be replaced now. You know, Molly is gonna do a tremendous job, like I said. But the challenge that she has, like a lot of other newspaper people is are people consuming the product the way they used to, you know, so. And believe me, she's up on all the social media and everything else to be able to get that. But just the straightforward picking up the newspaper, reading, engaging the fan through print is just an art that is, as time goes by, is gonna get lost.

[Alan Hahn]

Is it? Yeah, it's, it's sad to me. But we grew up on this, right? Like we grew up on the idea. I still like, I need a tangible newspaper. Turn the page, read the story. It's a lot harder when you go online, especially on your phone and you're trying to get on one of the websites. First of all, you got to log in because there's a paywall. Second of all, pop ups, another pop up, then a video. It's like, I just want to read the frickin story. Right? But so when you grab a newspaper from the newspaper stand, it's actually relaxing, there's no anxiety or pop ups. And all these videos. And I'm wondering, like, is the generation of fans so used to just scrolling for highlights or quick hit takes or.

[Michael Kay]

A picture with words on the screen that's quote and you don't even read the article, you just see a sentence.

[Alan Hahn]

Like is that the new way to consume sports now? And is the written word almost dead now?

[Michael Kay]

I would say the era, full game.

[Alan Hahn]

Story, written word, columnist take written word. How much longer is it gonna last before it's completely gone? After we're all gone? I would be the last ones.

[Michael Kay]

I would say that already. If you're someone who's in the world of sports and you're a blossoming opinion or tastemaker, whatever writer in sports, you're also gonna be on television and radio, the world of you just being a writer and that's how people know you, as your written word. If you're what you think that's happening. If you're younger than 40.

[Alan Hahn]

You remember the sports reporters.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

All right. I love this show. And it was always there's like four or five columnists, national Columnists, all from different parts of the country, very opinionated guys who are also good at delivering the same opinion on television. But they still had their columns in.

[Michael Kay]

Their newspaper and they stayed primary. Primarily columns.

[Don La Greca]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

But the value of them on national TV was the fact that they also did it all week. It's not just this is all you do and you don't have like that daily connection to the sport, which I think is, it's invaluable. And I just, I wonder, you know, again, I'd love to hear from people listening, how much is the, you know, Larry Brooks passing is one of those things where it does give you that second to stop and say, that's the old school way what he did it, the columns, the way he reported the information, he would keep and wait till slap shots came out in the Post. And he would have like at the bottom and all of a sudden he'd have a couple of one liners that maybe not big stories, but one line could shake a whole locker room.

[Don La Greca]

Oh, yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

You know, and he would hold onto it all week. And I just wonder, like, there was something I felt exciting about that, that, I don't know, are we losing it or are people still hanging on to the fact that, you know what, There is still a value in the newspaper reporter, the beat writer, the columnist, versus, like we said, just scrolling reels that have copy on the screen, or a talking head just saying something that lasts 15 to 30 seconds.

[Don La Greca]

You brought up a great point about how relaxing it was to just pick up the newspaper.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

And if I decide, you know, on a Sunday morning, eating breakfast, that I'm just gonna read the newspaper, I'm committing myself to reading the newspaper. But if I'm reading an article on my phone, well, guess what? A text comes in, I'm gonna see the text, or like you said, a pop up or something's gonna happen that you can't relax reading on the phone. Like, I'm just gonna sit there and relax, looking at my phone, reading an article.

[Alan Hahn]

Can't do it.

[Don La Greca]

No. There's a sense of urgency holding the phone, that the world is at my fingertips. My patience gets exhausted very quickly because of that. Where if I just decide, you know what, for the next half hour, I'm just gonna sit, read the newspaper cover to cover.

[Alan Hahn]

I just tried to go to the Post.

[Michael Kay]

No, so you gotta close that and right away gotta hit close.

[Alan Hahn]

I gotta hit close. So I gotta tap that. Now. Here I go. No, now it's like, use your Google account to sign in. No, I Don't want to do that. I don't want to give you my Google now. I have to X that.

[Don La Greca]

And you're out.

[Alan Hahn]

Now I have to go to sports. So I'm going to click sports now to get to the sports page. Now all of a sudden it's sign up for our Sports plus page. Like, I just want to read a.

[Don La Greca]

Story while you're doing that now into your minds, you know, so, by the.

[Michael Kay]

Way, don't let Alan's boyish good looks for you.

[Don La Greca]

He is an old.

[Michael Kay]

I'm an old man and he is fighting that phone.

[Alan Hahn]

I.

[Michael Kay]

But I get it by the way.

[Don La Greca]

I'm not saying.

[Michael Kay]

But you're asking the question, is it. I'm, I'm telling you it's over already. Like, really, it's over already.

[Alan Hahn]

You don't think we'd ever go back?

[Michael Kay]

Like, you realize our ways is pray. I've been thinking it's gonna end at some point and we're gonna like, start. I always kind of thought this social media thing would at some point slow down and we'd start. Like there'd be some retro movement. It doesn't feel like that's happening. People aren't watching television more, they're watching you. The late night shows are irrelevant. I mean, we can, we can all get into all the different reasons the late night stuff happened. The main reason to happen is there's not enough eyeballs on those channels anymore because people are watching YouTube anyway.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Michael Kay]

So it's just we, all the old things we enjoyed are in trouble and.

[Don La Greca]

We'Ve never taken a step back. It's nothing new. You know, we used to listen to the radio and there would be shows on the radio, not sports shows. There'd be actually dramas, programs on the radio. And then television came. Radio didn't go away. But now I can get all that on television and I'll look at radio in a different way. We never reverted back. It wasn't like, oh, we did, we did TV for like 10 years and then we decided, let's go back and just have everything be on radio again. No, then we slow now. Television went. Radio never died to the fun. No, it never.

[Alan Hahn]

Radio never went away. Newspapers are going to go away.

[Don La Greca]

Well, they're going to go away because they're going to go away in the format. But there's still a purpose to write and for people to read articles. It's just you're consuming it in a different way.

[Michael Kay]

Right.

[Don La Greca]

Like radio never went away, but you weren't going to listen to a soap opera on the radio anymore, that became irrelevant. So that's all moved on to television. So radio found its niche, and its niche was, you know, games and sports talk or news talk. That's kind of what it found its niche. And even that, as we know, is dying out. And then television became where I was watching the programs. But now you've got apps and now I can do things on the computer. Like, we've always evolved and what we evolve away from suffers. And the newspaper right now is suffering, but the journalists still exist. It's just you have to find a different way to be able to get your information.

[Alan Hahn]

That's Pablo Torre and what he's been doing, that's true journalism, what he's doing.

[Michael Kay]

So he's taking the modern mediums, but he's flipping in the old school journalism. That's exactly what it is. All we can hope for is that.

[Don La Greca]

But journalism is still journalism.

[Alan Hahn]

But just don't make me a million.

[Don La Greca]

Podcasts the way to attack it. But like you said, slap shots was something that came out once a week. Yeah, but why do I have to wait a week if he's on social media? Give me one of those things every day. Like, I don't want to have to wait a week. And then some of those things, some of those nuggets that on Monday came into Larry's head or shooting from the lip from Mike Lupica that pops into his head on Monday. Well, by Sunday it's not going to hit the same because six days and different things have happened. I just wonder, like, how much, like, change now that I don't have to wait. That's why sports. Nobody buys sports. Why do I got to wait a week? I want it now.

[Michael Kay]

You know what hurts the most, guys? I just want to be able to go see if Phil Mushnick has insulted me for loving wrestling, insulted me for one of my other political take. I can't even know what insults I'm getting from Phil Mushnick. Why? Because it's behind a paywall?

[Alan Hahn]

Well, there are some.

[Michael Kay]

Right?

[Alan Hahn]

There are some things that are a blessing about the payment. Yeah, there are.

[Don La Greca]

There's good and bad and all.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Don La Greca]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don La Greca]

Don han, Rosenberg till 7. That guy. Thursday at 4:30, Enn at 6. We got a full vehicle today. Talk some jets. A little bit later on, Shane Bowen spoke. Talked to him before before he gets fired. For people who know what he sounds like, this could be your last chance to hear. I mean, I don't want to be flipping about it, but honestly, I think they would burn MetLife Stadium to the ground if he kept his job. Right? Honestly, I mean, that's one of the awkward things about, well, we can't fire everybody. Still have to function, but, like, you know, he's gone bizarre.

[Michael Kay]

I brought up Shane Bowen today on my, my D.C. radio hit because they were saying that they asked me, oh, do you think that Dan Quinn taking over defensive duties for Joe Witt will help? I was, well, it certainly can't hurt. I said, but what I think is, I think Joe Whitt Jr. And Shane Bowen need to go on vacation. The two of them need to go away for a year, spend time, learn. Start from the beginning, play Tech Mobile. Just sit back and relearn.

[Alan Hahn]

Go to 3, 4 and just see how it goes.

[Michael Kay]

Feel it out playing the game and just start telling her, oh, could I ever get a stop on the 85 bears when I'm playing as like the 91 bills? What can you do?

[Alan Hahn]

What were the options defensively on Tecmo, right? It was a 3, 4, a 4 3, a nickel and dime, right? Was it diamond? Right?

[Don La Greca]

That's all you got. You got. All right, so if they did that right, if they went to, I don't know, St. Thomas and just played Tech Mobile, right?

[Michael Kay]

I love this plan.

[Don La Greca]

And Shane Bowen, I'm sure there are.

[Michael Kay]

Other ones we don't know about who should go to.

[Don La Greca]

He develops a plan and there's video footage of him shutting down Steve Jackson.

[Alan Hahn]

Steve William.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah. Is that enough to earn a job?

[Michael Kay]

No. If you can call the Bo Jackson play every game.

[Alan Hahn]

Listen, we lost a lot. We give a lot of points in New York, but. But I did some work on me.

[Michael Kay]

I can call. I can call the play every time.

[Alan Hahn]

Watch this with, with Bo Jackson things unstoppable. Look what our defense is doing up in A, stop. Look what I did with the 4.

[Michael Kay]

3 left and B, stop.

[Don La Greca]

Go to YouTube right now and watch Bo Jackson runs. Not. Not in the NFL. Tecma on Tech.

[Alan Hahn]

Tecma.

[Don La Greca]

I stopped that. Yeah.

[Michael Kay]

If you don't know what that looks like, kids, you don't. You don't know what power shut him down in a game.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, he was at negative yards after the game.

[Don La Greca]

It's. It's something special. So we'll get into that, because I do, I do think with opportunity, you know, comes changing attitudes. There's Seven games left for the Giants. All right, so we're joking about Shane Bowen. If all of a sudden the Giants defense clicks, then everything becomes the one guy who got fired, fought. It all becomes Dable's fault.

[Alan Hahn]

Right. It's almost too easy, isn't it?

[Don La Greca]

But what if you play the what if game?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. All right.

[Don La Greca]

If they go out there and beat the Packer now, shutting down the packers doesn't seem like it's any great shakes, Right? Because they're really banged up. They've got no healthy wide receivers that if you shut down the packers and then shut down the Lions and then you shut down the Patriots and you win five or six games here at the end of the season, which is an impossibility. I'm just play along with me for a second. Jobs will be won because of that. All right, so there is the opportunity. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but I'm telling you that if for some reason this all turns around and the Giants start winning games, then the narrative becomes, well, Dable was the problem. He's gone. You look at Kafka differently, you look at Bowen differently, you look at Shane differently.

[Alan Hahn]

How much do you believe it?

[Don La Greca]

That's not going to happen because the schedule's too tough. I'm just saying, if it did, how do you not look at it and go, hey, maybe we run this back with, with Kafka as the head coach. There is that possibility. As slim as it is, it is that possibility. Right? They're given the opportunity to do that. They're going to coach and perform to try to do that.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't think the defense is going to change at all. It's not going to change the way it looks. It's not going to change what it does. Like, none of that's going to differ because the secondary is not very. As we know, they can't stop a run at all. So we know there's not much they could do to change the defense. But if Jameis Winston shows you that he is capable of running an offense, at least, like capable, well, we know. Dart your guy. Then you really got to wonder, why did you waste so much time at Russell Wilson?

[Don La Greca]

I'm telling you, there is a chance. Not for Bowen, because I agree with you. I do think there is a close to 50% chance under 50, but close to 50, 46, that Kafka could win this job. He'll have the opportunity to do it. If you start to win games, Dable gets blamed. You just mentioned one, right? What If Winston goes out there and plays well.

[Alan Hahn]

Plays well.

[Don La Greca]

Well, again, Dable not know what he's doing playing Wilson over Winston. What was he thinking? And then you'll probably hear rumblings. Well, you know, Kafka wanted to play Winston, but they wouldn't let him do it. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, the narrative could swing in that direction.

[Alan Hahn]

Can I ask you, though? Let's. Let's pull all that away now.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, all.

[Alan Hahn]

Everything you just said. Just let's.

[Don La Greca]

Let's put it.

[Alan Hahn]

You're a Giants fan, Anthony. You, too. If I told you the end result is Mike Kafka is your head coach next season.

[Don La Greca]

Any movement?

[Alan Hahn]

How you feeling? Are you going, like, all right, I'm good with that? Or you're like, that's the best we could do?

[Michael Kay]

It depends how it looks, right?

[Don La Greca]

They go seven and.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, come on.

[Don La Greca]

No, but I'm just saying, if they go one and six, he's the next Sean McVeigh, and he's the next head coach. It'll be like, what are we doing here? But is there a scenario where it just looks different?

[Michael Kay]

No.

[Don La Greca]

Start winning games.

[Alan Hahn]

No.

[Don La Greca]

You might get to December going, I'd like him to be my guy.

[Alan Hahn]

He's not going to be better. Let's just assume he's not changing.

[Michael Kay]

But that's a Bowen situation, right? So from Don.

[Alan Hahn]

So you can't say seven and, oh.

[Don La Greca]

You got to go.

[Alan Hahn]

The offense just continues to just churn out points. Whether it's. No, that has been good.

[Michael Kay]

Gets even better, though.

[Alan Hahn]

Gets even better.

[Michael Kay]

I think continuing the way it is. And the defense still stinks. So you're losing games. The defense looks pretty good. They're scoring 22 points. I think something needs to look markedly better for him to come. It can't just be the same.

[Don La Greca]

You're killing the defense.

[Michael Kay]

Why?

[Don La Greca]

Because they can't come up with stops late in games. But what if they end up winning the games in which they have a lead going into the fourth quarter? Again, we're playing fantasy land because in all likelihood, it's not going to happen because the schedule is not going to allow it to. You've got home against the Packers. You're at the Lions. You're. You're at the Patriots.

[Michael Kay]

Can I just say something, though, about that? The packers game is interesting.

[Don La Greca]

We don't know.

[Michael Kay]

We know they have a great defense. Right. We don't know exactly who the packers are at this point in the game. Offensively, offensively, we certainly don't know. Love has not been great.

[Alan Hahn]

But they have the potential to, you never know, destroy the Giants defense?

[Michael Kay]

Yes. Oh, totally. And certainly if it was Wilson, obviously, they have no chance. We'll see what Winston looks like. Even the Lions, I mean, the Lions, of course, last week, they played the worst team in the league, the Washington Commanders. So they looked amazing. But I don't know if the Lions are the best version of the Lions they've been the last three years. That might be a game you can compete in. Who knows? So it does matter what it looks like here, moving forward, because to Don's point, the defense was good enough to win four of these games.

[Alan Hahn]

And that's the thing.

[Michael Kay]

They could have won those four games.

[Alan Hahn]

And Anthony said in my ear, I guess he said he's microphone shy, but he said, does Dart like Kafka? That's also probably in consideration because you want that continuity of not bringing in a whole new system.

[Michael Kay]

I'm gonna say this right now. A lot of you people.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, you people.

[Michael Kay]

A lot of used people are giving Dart just a little too much. Don't get me wrong, he was good.

[Alan Hahn]

I was told he's the leader of this team.

[Michael Kay]

That may be so. He may be leader of the team. And other players, they all look up to him and they admire him. I don't think he's. The point where he has his legs up and he's going, not feeling it, guys.

[Don La Greca]

I'm just saying. No, I mean, I like the floor.

[Alan Hahn]

I mean, I mean, if it's working, but that's.

[Michael Kay]

No, if it works, then.

[Don La Greca]

And he seems like he has a relationship with him.

[Alan Hahn]

If the offense looks considerably worse.

[Michael Kay]

No, no, no. But that goes back. Sorry, Don. That goes back to what we were saying about the play you said, does he like him? Him liking him? I'm sorry, he's not calling that way.

[Don La Greca]

You. You heard Carl Banks on Monday. All right? They're giving Kafka a chance to win this job. They wouldn't be giving him this chance if the quarterback didn't like him.

[Michael Kay]

Right.

[Don La Greca]

They didn't think he has some responsibility for making him the quarterback that he is. We give all the credit to Dable. I get it. But Kafka is his offensive coordinator, so he has to be on board again. There are times Ulbricht was made the interim head coach and the vibe was, this is temporary. He's not winning this job. The vibe. I'm getting that Kafka. I'm not saying he's winning the job, but they're giving him a look. They're giving him a Hell of a Runway. Seven games. I'm not saying he's going to win the job.

[Michael Kay]

Can I throw another thing in?

[Don La Greca]

It feels like the Giants are giving him a legitimate chance to try because.

[Alan Hahn]

He'S been interviewed at other places.

[Don La Greca]

They wouldn't do that if Dart wasn't on board.

[Michael Kay]

And we're forgetting another piece here, too. We can't forget the Mara piece. That because of Mara's current situation. I think the more that they can simplify this thing moving forward and not have to make gigantic organizational changing decisions.

[Alan Hahn]

Continuity.

[Michael Kay]

Continuity's better. So if it works with Kafka and it works with Shane and Mara's dealing with his health stuff, we move forward for another year.

[Don La Greca]

There have been interims. I forget there was one other. I forget who wrote the article. I apologize. But like, Tomlin was interim. Like there are interims that win jobs and stick around.

[Michael Kay]

Not everyone's Richie Pettibone with the clipboard hanging from his belly.

[Don La Greca]

You know what I mean, right?

[Michael Kay]

You remember that era, don't you?

[Alan Hahn]

Yes, I do remember.

[Michael Kay]

It was not what you want.

[Don La Greca]

It was one and done.

[Alan Hahn]

Jim Tomsula. Remember that hire? Of course I do remember that hire.

[Michael Kay]

You sure do.

[Alan Hahn]

Same thing.

[Don La Greca]

It's.

[Michael Kay]

Yeah, there's some Tomsula.

[Caller Manny]

Wow.

[Alan Hahn]

Hell of a name, right?

[Michael Kay]

Him and Petty Bone. Those are two great names to pull out.

[Alan Hahn]

Petty Bones.

[Michael Kay]

I dare anyone to call this program and pull out a better random NFC east coaching name than Tom Sula or Pettibone.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, that's. Those are.

[Michael Kay]

Those are a couple of gems.

[Alan Hahn]

NFC west for Tom.

[Michael Kay]

Conversation.

[Don La Greca]

This is a good conversation to have. Do you give Kafka a shot? And can these seven games win over hearts and minds?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don, Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Michael Kay]

I don't want to know how the.

[Alan Hahn]

Sausage is made, but I just want to know. It's good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.