Alan Hahn (2:49)

Well, it doesn't matter, you know, if Juan Soto has a difficult spring. Listen, the guy's back of his baseball card tells you, don't worry about it. He's. He's going out once. It. Once it means something. These players that have established jobs, that have been able to build up their credentials. But when you get a Clay Holmes, who the Mets acquire during the off season to convert a closer into a starter, you're damn right I got to pay attention to what he's doing in spring training because these games matter. So when I look at him in his last tune up before the regular season, he is their opening day starter, by the way, And I see five and a third, two hits, no runs, three walks, eight strikeouts this spring. He's got a 0.93 earned run average. I pay attention to that. Does that mean he's going to go out when the Cy Young? No, but it tells me that he's acclimated himself to a starting role, and I'm. I'm intrigued to see what he's going to bring the Mets in the regular season. Listen, Sang is their best pitcher, there's no question. But with the injuries that they've had Clay Holmes converted closer to starter, the. I'm paying attention to this and I like what I see.

Don LaGreca (3:54)

It's amazing that they saw something. Well, I guess again, Holmes was converted into a reliever. Right. Isn't that how it actually works?

Alan Hahn (4:03)

Right. Yeah.

Don LaGreca (4:03)

Which most pitchers, I guess most.

Alan Hahn (4:05)

Most relief pitchers are failed starters. Right?

Don LaGreca (4:09)

Right. Yeah. Usually you get to that, but we're talking about a guy who's a Closer, you know, you know, like, like that's. To me this is amazing. He was not a, he was a failed starter who became a reliever who became a closer, but he was, it felt like a failed closer because he had good stuff. Everybody said he had good stuff. Right. But I always felt with Holmes it was. And it's. Look, closing is not easy because it's the pressure that also you add to it. That's what makes closer so special. Some of them just have a swagger about them that they can step into these moments and the heart rate does not go up, that they have ice water in the veins. They have something about them, a presence. All those things that every time I watch Clay Holmes as a Yankee go to the mound with a lead, I never felt he possessed any of that had nothing to do with his talent. It was more of all the other stuff around it that as you watch, you're like that. You know, we've seen it, by the way, in this city, we've seen the best of it. And so there's, there's a standard that you compare it to. But you know, even Aralda's Chapman, like there was something there that, that you could tell, you know, David Robertson didn't have presence. He was not a big man, but he had like, like a comfortability in these moments. He never looked rattled. So with Holmes it's like this guy's just not a closer. But he does have good stuff. And it's interesting that the Mets saw it and said he's got good stuff and he could be a starter like that. We really don't see that.

Alan Hahn (5:32)

No.

Don LaGreca (5:33)

Usually once you're a closer or once you're a really like, you kind of stay in that role. This is going to be a really interesting. Is it an experiment that the Mets are going to have this year? But you're right, a good outing here, his last one in spring training before he's going to start the season for the Mets, before he's going to open the season for the Mets. And this is going to be a very interesting experiment that the Mets have with this player because he's not old and yet he's a guy that is making a transition that you don't often see.

Alan Hahn (6:03)

And I think it's fascinating just to see how the Mets have approached starting pitching. You see it, they don't sink a ton of money into guys. They try to get guys on one year contracts. Kind of what you saw with Severino last year, try to tap into something and then when it came Time to give him a contract. A's gave it to him, the Mets didn't because they felt like, all right, we got what we needed from him. We're not going to lock ourselves long term unless we get somebody like a Cole. But there's only a handful of guys that are like that and it seems that that's the strategy. Stearns is going to try to get reclamation projects, try to get players on one or two year contracts that are going to have a chip on their shoulder, motivated to go out there and pitch. So they don't want to invest a ton of money in it because take a look around the landscape of baseball. You invest a ton of money in a starting pitcher, they go down, shoulders, elbows, Tommy John, you're seeing it all over. It's happened to the Mets, you know, it's happened certainly to the Yankees losing, you know, possibly having three starting pitchers on the ill when the season begins. Cole's done for the year. We're not going to see heel for a couple of months. Doesn't look like Schmidt's going to start the season. He might be on IL as well. And that's the. I think that they're trying to tap into something here where I'm not investing a ton of money and a ton of years on pitching, not doing it. And maybe they catch some lightning in a bottle work last year. We'll see if it works this year. But I'm intrigued by what Clay Holmes is bringing to the table here. And if he pitches anywhere near the way he's pitched in the spring, you got to like it a lot.

Don LaGreca (7:32)

I guess Seth Lugo's the name that comes to mind. Right? Like Lugo's a guy that was a reliever at best early in his career and you know, the Mets used him and then turned him into a closer. And he, you know, at times, I guess I don't think he was ever like a full time shutdown closer. But you know, he's had those moments where he's closed games and then when he goes to the Padres, he suddenly becomes a starter. And now at Kansas and then Kansas City, he becomes an All Star. Like, like, you know, like that's later in his career and it's a different kind of transition. But, you know, like I said, I don't want to call it. Is experiment the wrong word? It's just so intriguing to me. It really is. It's the way the Mets are doing things. You're absolutely right. Instead of $300 million at a starter and if we lose Them, you know, like, again, the Yankees without Garrett Cole, you know, you feel like you're. You're in big trouble here. It's sort of just our starters are interchangeable, interchangeable parts. We can figure it out. Maybe we can convert a couple of guys. It won't cost us a lot of money. If we lose someone, you just sort of replace them. It's almost like relief pitch, the mentality of relief pitching or middle relief with your starters. And I guess the Rays sort of started doing this when they realized they were going to have to pay some of the guys that they had brought up that, you know, were outstanding there and, like, we'll see if it works. But the homes thing, because it's so close to home, because he was literally a closer and a closer for the Yankees has a different status to it, doesn't it? Like, when you name closer of the Yankees, it's like, yo, like that's, that's a big deal. And they go, we're going to take the closer of the Yankees. We're going to make them our. One of our main starters.

Alan Hahn (9:10)

It's fascinating, and I think there's a lot of Yankee fans, you see it on social media kind of poking fun at the mats, like, you know, why do you want him? He was garbage as a closer. Well, yeah, but they're not using him as a closer, using starting pitcher and as you said, different skill set altogether now. It's a. It's a lot different. You're going to have to now throw a lot more pitches, deal with a lot more innings, but I think there's just a different skill set than you see as a closer. So, yeah, he might have failed as a closer, does not mean he's going to fail as a starter, but certainly the spring is an indication that he seems to be taking to it nicely.

Don LaGreca (9:42)

Yeah. Yeah, we'll see. It was just an interesting little thing to talk about here at the very beginning. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to Mario's Bistro. The special tonight is the beef carpaccio.

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Don LaGreca (10:09)

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Peter Rosenberg (10:17)

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Don LaGreca (11:14)

Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

Alan Hahn (11:18)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Don LaGreca (11:19)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. Do a little tournament update Donnie Brought to you by schweps second seated St. John's they march on after they get their first tournament win in over two decades. They'll face number 10 Arkansas at 2:40 tomorrow in the round of 32. That game's again. You would expect they're going to put them on CBS as much as possible. John Calipari, Rick Pitino, there's your headline. Coaches. This will be a fun matchup between those two again. St. John's moves on the game yesterday. By the way, a quick other aside since we're doing a tournament update, Cooper Flag's ankle is just fine. He's playing for Duke. There was a one. You know, there's a question mark about it after that injury in the ACC tournament. Like he had a monster dunk early in the game. They're they're up 4422 in their first round game. So like I I don't think you have to worry about his ankle. You know, Mount St. Mary's 16 seed. The fact that they're even within 20 I think is just a win right now in the first half. But he's playing, he's fine and this tournament is definitely underway. That's a tournament update presented by Schweppes. Schweppes offers above the rim refreshment and is a proud sponsor of the Big East Conference. Enjoy the madness. Take a break from the hoops Action with the Schweppes Seltzer or schweppes ginger ale. St. John's did what they were supposed to do, Don. Right. Just make it. No doubt. They win by 30 over Omaha last night and it just feels like they're definitely a team to be reckoned with in this tournament.

Alan Hahn (12:58)

Well, they're a two seed, right. And we talked about it earlier in the week that you could be excited all you want about St. John's being back. It's a feel good story. Great regular season, they win the Big east tournament. Well, now you got to conduct yourselves as you are perceived. You are a 2 seed. Now, you went into the tournament ranked 6th in the nation, which means only 5 teams were better than you in the regular season. So Cinderella is over, man. Now you're a two seed and that's what two seeds do. They blow out the 15 seed.

Don LaGreca (13:32)

All right.

Alan Hahn (13:32)

A little dicey, I guess it was 2019 at one point.

Don LaGreca (13:35)

They always start slow. I think they were down five nothing. They always start slow.

Alan Hahn (13:40)

Which, which I, which is going to be a problem as the level of competition gets, gets higher and higher. But you know, yesterday it was like, oh, I'm just happy to be in the tournament. No, you're a two seed. Two seed should at least, at least go to the sweet 16. And now you're going on and you're going to take on Calipari and you're a six and a half point favorite. And now it's time to move on to that sweet 16 so we can assess after it's all over how you want to look at the 24, 25 season. But right now you're a 2 seed. You're one of the best teams in the country. You've got one of the best coaches in the history of college basketball. So ride it, man. Ride the wave.

Don LaGreca (14:16)

Absolutely.

Alan Hahn (14:17)

And, and I, and I think last night was exactly what you want to see. I think tomorrow afternoon is going to be a lot of fun with two legendary coaches going at it. And I think this team can be staring at an elite 8 and then.

Don LaGreca (14:29)

Then we'll assess from there 31 and 4. Like what a season. It's. I guess it just sort of happened right this year where they just started to win game. Like I remember early in the season I was watching them against Baylor and it was one of those, you know, early season tournament games and stuff like that. And it was just a, it was a great game. It went into, I think double overtime and I was watching like, man, they really get after it, you know, they really good. They still made some mistakes. They ended up losing the game. I think if I'm not mistaken, there was also, I think Patino made a mistake in the game, too. He had a guy in who should be in there for free throws. They foul him on purpose. He missed the free throws, like, whole, whole bunch of stuff. But the point is, is you watch and you're just like, you're not used to St. John's being great. You thought, okay, they're going to be competitive because they've got Patino. But you really weren't expecting, I, at least I wasn't expecting anything out of the season other than, you know, we'll see how good they can be. But when I'm sitting there looking at 31 and 4 and I'm watching last night, I got back from the Nick game and I, I, I was able to catch most of the end of that game. They already had taken over. They were already in control. And I'm just watching them play and I'm just thinking to myself, like, it's a really good team. Like, they get after it. RJ Lewis is a stud. You could just see it. They got, you know, they got some bigs that they throw at you. It's just the way they play, how hard they play on defense. And if they shoot threes. And again, I know it's a 15 seed, I know it's Omaha, it's not like you're playing against one of the blue bloods, but if they shoot the three like they did last night, lights out, you hit the three and then play defense, like the way they get after it defensively, who's going to beat them? So I, I am both blown away by just how good, how fast they became this season. And in a blink, you're looking at 30 wins or 31. Now a two seed advancing and now playing a good Arkansas team, but not a great one, a good one. And if you do that, you're talking sweet 16. You're talking now, you know, really start dreaming about dancing all the way to the Final Four. It's a special year.

Alan Hahn (16:32)

Yeah. I mean, it's earlier than expected, but again, they passed every test. I think it was Richard Manhattan who made a really good point yesterday. You know, Patino doesn't look past teams. He's going to have his team ready to play. They may not win every game they play, but they're not going to have a night like the Knicks did last night or a night like the Rangers had back on Tuesday. Where they overlook opponent. Don't, don't show up. He's going to have them showing up and playing and if they lose, it'll be because they just lost to a better team, not because they were daydreaming or not prepared. He will have them prepared and engaged every night.

Don LaGreca (17:05)

Rick Pino after the game was talking because they knew the matchup would be Arkansas. And again, it's a head coaching matchup. Him and John Calipari, two of the legends of, of this generation of coaching guys who certainly know what it's like to coach a Kentucky. So here's Patino just talking about that matchup with California.

D (17:23)

I don't go against coaches, we go against teams. He doesn't have to worry about me. My jump shot's long gone. He's got to prepare for our team. We've got to prepare for his players. He's preparing for our players. So John and I don't play one on one anymore.

Don LaGreca (17:36)

I love that when coaches do that. But the respect factor between the two is certainly there. This is what Pitino said about that.

D (17:42)

He was at Kentucky, he was at Louisville. It's normal. So I've always had great respect for Jon. I've always said it. I told our team we have not seen this type of size and this type of athleticism all year. We have not seen that Creighton has a 72 center, but they have multiple guys athleticism wise. We haven't seen this this year. So we know what we're up against. Obviously they had a lot of injuries. That's why they opened up 05. But they got it together right now. And if they. I don't know where they finished in the sec. 8th, 9th in the sec, but if they finished 8th and 9th, what I watched today, I'm glad we're not in the SEC because. Because that's the talent level in that conference is amazing to me.

Don LaGreca (18:19)

I love how he's throwing flowers, right? Oh, we're not going to. We've never seen a team like this. Oh my God. It's going to be so difficult. It's a really smart thing for him to do. He'll keep his team on edge. But if you don't think. I'll tell you this. If you think for a minute that this is not personal, this is very personal. Patino, Pitino, definitely like this will be a personal thing. He doesn't want to make it that way publicly. He. He doesn't want it to be about him versus Cal. He doesn't want any of that stuff Right. Publicly, privately. He wants this bad. Of course he wants this bad. So this, this could be an epic game. This could be a lot of fun. I'm just glad it's at a time where everybody can see it.

Alan Hahn (18:57)

Yeah, it could be a lot of fun.

Don LaGreca (19:00)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, man. I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN News York app, and your smart speakers.

Peter Rosenberg (19:17)

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