Allen (1:44)

He's judge.

Don Hahn (1:45)

All right. Or if somebody came to the plate.

Allen (1:47)

Without a bat, without hands.

Don Hahn (1:50)

Did you see the at bat?

Allen (1:51)

No. I'm going to go watch it right now.

Rosenberg (1:53)

Oh yeah.

Don Hahn (1:54)

Same pitch, five feet out of the strike zone. Same swing three times. If I showed it to you, be like why you keep showing me the first pitch over and over again. No, no, no, I'm not. It's three different pitches. Talking about having no shot at O2. Allen, I didn't. Nobody ever does this. But I could have just turned the TV off. I knew it was going to happen. Matter of fact, I know what I, it basically happened because God love her, my daughter thinks she's a window and stood right in front of me.

Allen (2:24)

Course.

Don Hahn (2:26)

And I was not surprised when I heard Gary say swing. In a minute. Strike three, game over.

Allen (2:32)

I, I, I gotta tell you guys, I identify with this so much. This was why I was a terrible pinch runner. Yeah. That's why I was a pinch runner, because I was so scared that you swing at anything close. That's what people who don't know how to play baseball.

Don Hahn (2:46)

No, it was, he was.

Rosenberg (2:47)

Look, we know he was guessing.

Don Hahn (2:50)

I was guessing because his hands hurt from the injuries.

Rosenberg (2:52)

Yeah, well, look, that's a terrible at bat. It's a terrible approach. He probably had a scattering report and was guessing the pitch because the previous. I believe the previous at bat was he not like throwing it 102?

Don Hahn (3:08)

Well, no, the strikeout pitch to McNeil was 102.

Rosenberg (3:12)

Yeah.

Don Hahn (3:12)

So he's.

Rosenberg (3:14)

He's got to be thinking, okay, breaking bar. He's going to go back to the fat. He was sitting fastball hoping for it. But that's probably why he was so out ahead. And it was. Look, it was a. You're right to say what you just said. It was a disaster of an at bat in a game where your, your young pitcher kept you in it. Nola had a throwback game because he hasn't, he hasn't been that good in a while. But that was an unbelievable.

Don Hahn (3:39)

Against the Mets too. Yes, he did a great job.

Rosenberg (3:42)

And so again, these are, these are games you can't afford to lose. And that's one, that, That's a painful one, but a painful way to end it. Oh, with. With just literally like surrender swings.

Don Hahn (3:53)

No, I understand it because you're, you're 100% right. He saw the 102 mile power fast. There's only way I'm going to hit that is like he throws it. And they knew that through. Through curveballs and he was done. But we'll get to the Mets and I think it's on the table. And people think I'm crazy that they commit the playoffs. Giants win last night. Their lead is only three. There are three back of the Padres.

Rosenberg (4:17)

Are you serious?

Don Hahn (4:18)

Why not? They got three more games with the Phillies and they all. They own the Phillies, but not necessarily at Citizens Bank. They lost two out of three to Philly earlier this year. They own the Phillies in New York, but the next three games are in Philadelphia. Sanford. The only thing that's going to save them, guys, is that San Francisco's got a beast of a schedule, right? They got the Diamondbacks, Dodgers, Diamondbacks, Dodgers. All right, those are the next series that they play.

Rosenberg (4:41)

And the Dodgers, by the way, are done batting the bunny, right, because they.

Don Hahn (4:45)

Got to get going because the Padres could catch. Yeah, so. So that, that's going to save it. But the Mets are a mess. We'll save them for later.

Rosenberg (4:52)

Okay.

Don Hahn (4:52)

Because last night what you saw if you stayed up because it was kind of Bill's Ravens light in the sense it wasn't as many points and wasn't as entertaining a game from an offensive standpoint. But it was similar in the sense that the fourth quarter told the whole story because the quarterback that couldn't play the first three quarters, they scored 21 points, the Vikings in the fourth. All right. And J.J. mcCarthy's, you know, debut in a regular season game was saved by an amazing fourth quarter and they win the game. But what you saw is a quarterback that isn't really NFL ready yet, didn't play much in Michigan, obviously didn't play last year because of the injuries. But when you got a coach can make things happen. And you know what? And the same thing with the Bears all Caleb Williams looks a lot better. Yeah, well, it's a second year, Donald. Yeah, it's a second year. But you know, now he's. There's some things going on there that are working and that's why it's starting to function. So what you're seeing is if you give me a coach, he can work with a quarterback. McConnell has shown you that by able to take Darnold off the crowd, literally the crap people, let's be honest, he wasn't good. His career wasn't going anywhere and, and he's a borderline mvp. And then they throw him away because it really wasn't about him. And then they'll have the new quarterback come in and make it work because that's what you. When you have coaching guys, it changes the way the quarterback looks. So it all watching that end of that game last night, guys, just accentuated what I said yesterday. The Giants are poorly coached, so you can kill. You can kill Russell Wilson, although Kurt Warner said it wasn't his fault. You can want to rush Jackson Dart in. Is it going to matter guys, if you don't have the right coach?

Rosenberg (6:37)

No, it's not going to matter. And that's the only thing you have left now to find out when Jackson Jackson dart does finally get into the lineup at some point this season. It's too early for it. That's what we're saying. But what, what Kevin o' Connell showed you last night, he said it in the interview, which is to me what stood out the most. He already had his reputation. I mean, what he did with Sam Darnold, the reclamation project that he had there when his original starter, the Rookie who was McCarthy, got hurt. And there's Darnold, just staring, you know, again, seeing ghosts, eyes wide, going, okay, well, you're our guy. We got to coach you up. That was his attitude. It wasn't. It's on the player. It was. No, it's on the coaching staff. It's on all of us. It's on. And what he said in the interview, because they look, he. The kid didn't look great. The offense was doing nothing. They had six points at halftime. And he said, he's doing fine. We have to do better around him, all of us players and coaches. And that's what he said. He didn't put it on the kid. He put it on everyone. And what happened in the second half? Well, number one, they took advantage of a missed field goal. So a 50 yarder misses, they get a little. They have half a field now to go down. And the running game was different in the second half, and that's what he did. Changed a little bit of play calling, got a little more aggressive. The kid got comfortable, threw some beautiful passes downfield, and the whole game flipped quickly because the confidence that he saw around him, suddenly he was feeling too. There was one point in the game where he, in the huddle, looked around, everybody said, would you guys want to be anywhere else right now? Right. And that all the players fed off that. That comes from being comfortable. That comes from great coaching.

Don Hahn (8:18)

Now, listen, he hasn't won anything yet. And certainly you need talent. No question, you need talent. And they didn't have enough talent to beat Detroit last year and they lost. Right? Now that's going to come. When we say great coaching. There's great coaching in coaching your players up and getting the most out of your players. And then there's the actual making the right decisions and game planning to beat the other team. You know, we'll see if o' Connell can become a Super bowl coach, but right now we're just looking. Can you be a coach to get the most out of your talent? Because most of the time, and I've been saying this for years, most of the failed draft picks are because they were drafted by the wrong team. All right, now, you do sometimes have the difference between Manning and Ryan Leaf, but maybe Ryan Leaf is in a different situation. Maybe he would have had a better career. And maybe if Manning was drafted by a really bad team, then maybe he wouldn't have had the career that he had. Show me the time where a quarterback is able to overcome bad coaching.

Rosenberg (9:16)

A young quarterback.

Don Hahn (9:17)

A young quarterback. Listen, your veteran quarterback can come in.

Allen (9:20)

For sure, but you can handle it.

Don Hahn (9:22)

But a young kid drafted to a.

Allen (9:23)

Coach that we know turned out to be bad.

Don Hahn (9:25)

Right. Listen, if you can think of one, it's. It's very rare, it's few and far between. But I can give you ton. Tons of examples of quarterbacks that probably weren't all that great, but the coach was able to get the most out of them and win and maybe develop them into what could end up being a star quarterback. So we circle this all around to the Giants because the groundswell. And you knew it was going to happen. We said it yesterday that the outcry is going to be get Jackson Dart in there because you've got a coach trying to save, you know, literally his job, more athleticism. We saw what happened in the preseason. Although Kurt Warner said yesterday, don't blame Russell Wilson, there was nothing there. So I don't know why all of a sudden there'd be something there for the kid. But you know, Marcus Spears was on the K show today and he said starting dart is a viable option.

Jimmy (10:12)

Yeah, it's a viable option. I thought he should have started week one.

Allen (10:15)

Really.

Jimmy (10:15)

You've had training. Yeah. You've had training camp, you've had the preseason and miss me with the nonsense about, well, we want to make the. Make it as as good as possible. If he, if he doesn't know the playbook, if you think he going to struggle getting in and out of the huddle, I understand it. I don't know that. I haven't heard Brian or anybody on the staff say that. But outside of that, it's time to get the kid going. He showed you a lot of flashes, a lot of potential in the preseason. And I get it, young quarterbacks, more quarterbacks are ruined and they are made the right way and all of that. But at this point, man, you know what Russell Wilson is. You know what's on your roster. And if this guy can send you a jolt of action and it permeates throughout the rest of the team, the move to be made. Because if you're gonna lose, you at least want some exciting stuff to happen while you're losing.

Rosenberg (10:59)

I love swago. That's a bad take. I think it's a, it's, it's. For him, it's. That's a general take because generally that can happen. There were a lot of ifs in his statement. If that can do this, if that could do that, like those are the things to me, you can't, you can't deal in ifs when you have a player that Is that important to the franchise? The front office, the head coach, all of them, they're so invested. You just, you cannot have variables right now. It has to be the right time. And that's the question. It's, it's. Do you play him when it's right for him? Not when it's needed or necessary for you. It's not. You can't look at a guy that you, you, you traded into the first round to drafted quarterback as your savior in week two. That's not what you do. That's how you ruin him. Because you know what happens the minute he makes the start, the expectations go up and if he doesn't meet them, what happens then? Now there's frustrating, oh, this guy sucks. Because you know how it goes. This is not the thing to do for this kid. This is. No, this is not about team right now. I know it's a team sport and it's always supposed to be about team.

Jimmy (12:16)

But.

Rosenberg (12:17)

But you got to understand, this is not the time for that. This is the time to make sure he's right and he's ready because, well.

Don Hahn (12:26)

It is kind of about team in the sense that if your reasoning for starting Jackson Dart is that will be more entertaining to watch and the head coach will be able to save his job. Those aren't good reasons. Yeah, because the risks are just far greater than rewards. Because if you start him, if you don't believe in Dable, if you don't think he's the guy, then why do you want him to get his hands all over him this season and possibly mess him up? So when the new regime comes in. Now his rookie year was thrown away by being handled by the wrong coach. And then the new coach comes in and now has to spend another year fixing him. Now you get to year three and oh, by the way, the Giants have a top three pick. You know what, we're going to go in a different direction. And Dart's gone. So that's why all these quarterbacks, the Baker Mayfields of the world, the Sam Darnolds of the world, even going back to the Jim Plunkett's of the world, always find it with another organization. Because the organization that drafts them can't afford to be patient. They can't afford to sacrifice three, four years to get it figured out. The new regime is going to want to bring in their own guy. So if you like Jackson Dart and don't like Brian Dable, then the only opinion I have is just hope that.

Allen (13:36)

This kid doesn't play right. Because the only other scenario I suppose that could play out would be because again, they were without Andrew Thomas this week. Right. They get Thomas back.

Rosenberg (13:46)

Yes.

Allen (13:46)

Over the next month they start to look better. Wilson is still bad, but the protection's better. And then they go, all right, we're going to give the kid a shot and then he plays well. That is a scenario that I guess if you're a dable hater, you don't love. But that's the only one where I could see it making sense to go to him.

Don Hahn (14:02)

See, because. Because this is. This is what we have here. Because another thing Marcus Spears said on TMKS is that Wilson is no longer a starting caliber quarterback.

Jimmy (14:09)

I think Russ is relegated to a career backup now. Man, I don't think he's a guy that you're going to bring in and think that you can win games with. You know, he'll have his moments because we all. Look, Russell Wilson was a very talented quarterback. He is good enough to be on the roster. But to be your starter and feel like you're going to win anything, I think that ship for sale.

Don Hahn (14:28)

All right, so he didn't go that in depth in his play on Sunday, but he thinks that, you know, Wilson's cooked okay. But we had Kurt Warner on yesterday who said, don't blame Russell Wilson for the loss. So there seems to be a discrepancy on how much of this is quarterback play and how much of this is coaching. So you're right, Peter. If all of a sudden it looks good against Dallas, well, then you judge it from there. And at some point if you go, I think we'd win with a better quarterback, well, then maybe you could think about putting Dart in. But if the consensus is this isn't the quarterback's fault, this is the offensive line, this is coaching, this is the talent around him, then why would you want to put a kid in that situation? To just be programmed to fail. If you believe it's quarterback play and quarterback play only, then it's a viable option to start Jackson Dart or Jameis Winston. But if it's not about the quarterback, then let the veteran get beat up. He's not your future.

Allen (15:24)

Now, if that is the situation is that someone's getting beat up, then it should never be Jackson Dart wouldn't make sense. But I still almost feel it's almost a tough spot though, because that doesn't. Let's say that's what happens. They make the right choice. Wilson's getting beat up, Winston plays some Dart, never sees the field they blow out Dable at years, at year end, if I know that you guys tend to think Shane is safer. If they were to blow out Dable and Shane, it could still not end up behaving the kid. You still don't know that whoever comes in next is then in love with Jackson Dart. The only thing that anyone's ever seen of him then is a productive preseason look.

Rosenberg (16:04)

Yeah.

Allen (16:04)

You know, so that ends up still.

Rosenberg (16:06)

What you hope that's your problem is that you have a head coach who was part of the process in drafting him. And I'm telling you from knowledge, okay, they put a lot of time in on this kid. And so they have a working knowledge of him and what he can and can't do and what they've done so far to test him and push him and get him ready or as ready as they possibly could while also protecting him. With two veterans that are basically, let's be honest, Russell Wilson and Jameis Winston are basically. They're, they're the. What would be the word to describe. They're just stand ins right now, guys. There's there, they're placeholders. They're there to just get beat up until the kid's ready. Then the franchise moves on and, and Winston's probably around because they know here's a guy that'll be. Probably be happy to be the backup and that's exactly the kind of backup we need and whatever. So, like Russell Wilson's time here is not long term, it's short term. He probably knows it, but they know it too. But for them, it's like we throw him out. Those first four weeks are brutal. Throw him out there as a sacrificial lamb. Let him take all the hits and take the beat. He's a pro. Maybe we'll get a game out of him. That'd be great. But it's better than putting the kid, throwing the kid right into the fire. The baptism by fire I always talk about it's just not the right move. So we can get, as fans, they can get hysterical about demanding now, but this is not the. If there's ever a time for this franchise to not listen to its fan base, we always say the team should listen to their fan base when it comes to certain things. This is not the time. This is not the time. This is the time. The fan base is not right. Those that are calling for it and they need to just chill and the fan and the franchise has to know no matter how much pushback you're going to get over the next Four weeks. And it's going to get louder and louder. Guys, Monday Night Football against the Chiefs is not the time. So this is the time that you have to plug your ears and just get through it.

Don Hahn (18:07)

Because fans are going to be motivated by. I want to be entertained. I watch this team every week. I want to see the kid play.

Rosenberg (18:13)

Yeah.

Don Hahn (18:13)

Because they know Russell Wilson doesn't have any future here. They know Jameis Winston doesn't have any future here. And the motivation for the Dable supporters is I want to. I want this guy to save his job. And I think Jackson Dart's got the best chance to do that. That's not the motivation here. And that's why you wish there was a grown up in the room. Because this is the problem. You have by at least not extending Shane. Cause Shane's in the same boat. This is his guy. So he might be like, I want to save my job. I traded back into the first round for this kid. I need him to be on display that I got it right so they don't fire me.

Rosenberg (18:43)

I don't think Shane's on the chopping block as much as Dable would be.

Don Hahn (18:48)

I wouldn't think so. But you know, their contracts coincide with each other.

Rosenberg (18:51)

I understand.

Don Hahn (18:51)

So they're both going to go in the next year. In the last year of their deals.

Rosenberg (18:54)

They could, but I don't think that's the case. I think they. I think they have a pretty stable front office. I do think the Barclay thing was, was a bad look for Shane. It was not handled the right way. Kind of fumbled it a bit. You know, the owner wasn't happy. But if that didn't cause it, if that didn't make the owner say you're out because what did he say? I'll throw. I won't be able to sleep if he's on the Eagles. Right. And then where do you end up? So if that didn't do it, I think he's a little bit safer because I don't think you want to blow it all out. Look, the roster's getting better.

Don Hahn (19:30)

You can't argue it.

Rosenberg (19:31)

I agree that the roster is getting better. It's just they're not there yet.

Don Hahn (19:34)

Right. The safer place to be is with Dave. With Shane getting a chance to hire another head coach. I agree with you there. But we don't know what John Maris thinking. I don't think they're attached to the hip and maybe they are. I don't know. John. John's the wild card here. Right. So he's going to ultimately make the decision on who stays and who goes. And he obviously feels that they're both auditioning because he said they were both back. But even though their last year of their contracts are 26, he didn't extend either of them.

Rosenberg (20:03)

No, he didn't. And it was the right thing to do, like assess and see where you're at, you know, midway through the season or anything. But you know, again, Don, what, what didn't look great is the sideline at that game. That, that sideline. There were some moments as we talked about yesterday, those are the things you have to watch down in Miami and with the Giants, that's two sidelines that did not feel like everyone was connected and that there was full fledged belief.

Allen (20:28)

Well, look on the bright side. At least, at least the Giant sideline didn't get fully attacked by Rex Ryan. So, you know, listen, let's say that Mike McDaniels. Mike McDaniel caught that, but not the Giants. So you got that.

Rosenberg (20:41)

Rex definitely got a little personal.

Allen (20:43)

Rex goes. He's out of his sport.

Don Hahn (20:45)

What, just because of the nerd thing?

Allen (20:47)

Strong though. He said the players said no one respect. Well, he called him a nerd, then said no one respects him. It's the combination, the last part.

Don Hahn (20:54)

But, but it's just, it's his observation. I don't think nerd is that pejorative. But here, here's, here's the problem with Mike McGenius.

Allen (21:01)

It's a little childish.

Don Hahn (21:02)

Former coach said about the coach, I.

Rosenberg (21:04)

Don'T get a problem with any of it. What he's paid to do.

Don Hahn (21:06)

Now these guys, these analytic guys, these non player guys come in here and they think they got it all figured out. It's a quick way to lose the room when you start to lose, right? Because now you're like, you're like you're an outsider. You don't know, right?

Rosenberg (21:19)

Like, watch how fast if it ever does turn in Philadelphia, watch how fast Sirianni is like, right? That act wears thin if you're not.

Allen (21:29)

Winning, you know, Alan, I'm sorry, we gotta, we gotta stop the segment. We can't. I can't do it. No, I can't do it.

Don Hahn (21:36)

I usually get mad at Peter for this, but he.

Allen (21:39)

I can't work this way.

Don Hahn (21:40)

I'm on board.

Allen (21:41)

I cannot work this way. We have NBA Today on the tv.

Don Hahn (21:45)

Please sit over here.

Allen (21:47)

I can't wait. Allen, screen him out. You, you have, I need you to get. You have Richard Jefferson on your phone, don't you.

Don Hahn (21:56)

Alan, you've Got it on, don't you?

Allen (21:57)

You got to do something.

Don Hahn (21:58)

What are you doing?

Allen (21:59)

This is too much.

Don Hahn (22:00)

Was it Ron Dugay now standby.

Allen (22:02)

It's too far.

Rosenberg (22:03)

Are we six buttons today?

Don Hahn (22:04)

It's six.

Allen (22:05)

It's. There is any buttons?

Rosenberg (22:07)

No button.

Allen (22:08)

It's just. Take the shirt off.

Don Hahn (22:10)

Yeah.

Jimmy (22:10)

Just.

Don Hahn (22:11)

What is the shirt doing?

Rosenberg (22:12)

What even wear shirts?

Allen (22:14)

Richard, Jeff, what do you do? Just own it, man. Take the shirt off. Wave it like a helicopter. What are we doing?

Rosenberg (22:21)

I'm going to take a picture and text it to him.

Allen (22:23)

Please say. Say our show has spoken. I can't. I'm distracted by this much skin.

Rosenberg (22:29)

You know, Take it off. You know what I figure, you know what you just revealed to me now? That's why I'm never invited on that show.

Allen (22:36)

Too much shirt.

Rosenberg (22:37)

I button it way too much.

Allen (22:39)

Oh, you're up all the way to the top.

Rosenberg (22:40)

Maybe with a tie on, it's just too much button.

Allen (22:43)

You got way too. But no, you cannot get on that.

Rosenberg (22:46)

I got to go on. I got to go on a button strike or maybe snaps so they just pop as the show goes on. Just. Oh, I didn't. By the way.

Allen (22:54)

I want to say something to hear me out. It's sexist.

Rosenberg (22:57)

What do you mean sexist how?

Allen (23:00)

If a woman showed up to work with that many buttons unbuttoned, a supervisor is pulling her aside and saying, hey, in the workplace, you can't. You got to keep it together.

Rosenberg (23:09)

There are. Is it anatomical differences?

Jimmy (23:13)

I understand.

Allen (23:14)

That's that. That's my point. He's taking advantage of the anatomical differences. He should not be showing that much chess on a random Tuesday for no reason.

Don Hahn (23:23)

Actually, he's not showing too much chess to me.

Rosenberg (23:28)

Is he showing? Well, I'm almost there. Is he showing nipple?

Allen (23:31)

It's close.

Don Hahn (23:31)

No, but what he's doing. He's showing too much stomach. That's the problem.

Allen (23:34)

It's stomach.

Don Hahn (23:36)

It's not even chest. Chest is out. It's probably.

Rosenberg (23:38)

We got four pack.

Allen (23:39)

You might see a belly button.

Rosenberg (23:41)

I got replaced out.

Don Hahn (23:42)

The shirt's a rumor. The next button is his belt.

Rosenberg (23:44)

Shirts are rumor.

Don Hahn (23:45)

Next button.

Allen (23:47)

That is a fact.

Rosenberg (23:48)

So sport coat, no shirt. I've seen that. Russell. Russell Westbrook has done that a few times.

Allen (23:52)

It's just the crazy thing is when you have to take that much effort to open the buttons up because, like, before you go on, you just put your shirt. Hold on. Who's putting on their shirt when they get to button two. Go. Yeah, that's good.

Don Hahn (24:04)

That's it.

Rosenberg (24:04)

I'm all set.

Don Hahn (24:05)

I'm all set.

Allen (24:06)

No, you know what that means.

Rosenberg (24:07)

He.

Allen (24:07)

You go up to seven, and then you start working back. Let me take five. Let me take four. You're out. You work backwards.

Rosenberg (24:15)

He's working back.

Allen (24:16)

Richard Jefferson has lost his mind.

Rosenberg (24:18)

You understand? I'm in a commercial, so it's going to take me a minute. You understand, like, how. How much. When you think about when we do tv, how important the tie becomes and all. And now I'm like, what's happening in sports broadcasting? And what I'm seeing stylistically is I'm telling myself I'm overdoing it. You know, Keyshawn Johnson Namedrop used to always make fun of me when it comes to wearing ties. And he would say why. He would do it in his voice. Why are we wearing ties? We're talking sports. Why are we wearing. Like, he would say that all the time. And I was like, you're kind of right.

Allen (24:56)

Yeah, but you know, why we have.

Rosenberg (24:57)

To wear a suit. We're talking. We're just talking sports.

Allen (24:59)

But, you know, but. But here's the thing.

Rosenberg (25:00)

I'm not banking. But here's.

Allen (25:02)

But here's why I'm.

Rosenberg (25:03)

He would argue it all the time.

Allen (25:04)

But here's where I. Here's where Keyshawn is so different than everybody else. Keyshawn. I respect it. He just didn't want to dress up. Keshan's attitude was, I'm rich. I'm good. I'm good at what I do. I wear sweatpants and a sweatshirt. Cam Newton.

Rosenberg (25:21)

Can't all three of us say the same three things?

Allen (25:23)

What do you mean?

Rosenberg (25:25)

What you just said. All three of us can say the same three things.

Allen (25:27)

Not those three things. Some of those things. But Cam Newton, for example, it's not that Cam wants to wear a sweatshirt. He's wearing a hat with his hair.

Rosenberg (25:36)

Through the hat and a scarf and a tie.

Don Hahn (25:40)

It's weird.

Allen (25:41)

It's not good.

Rosenberg (25:42)

That's different. The hat thing and the hair thing. I understand.

Don Hahn (25:45)

You know, listen. I just look away.

Allen (25:48)

You think he's going for the Brad Pitt look, the Leo DiCaprio look?

Rosenberg (25:52)

So can we then agree, though, with Don getting mad at Kevin? Nandi, my good friend, it pales in comparison.

Allen (25:59)

Oh, Gandhi is just. He's just messing with some colors.

Don Hahn (26:02)

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Rosenberg (26:36)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

Allen (26:39)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Rosenberg (26:41)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

Don Hahn (26:48)

Don on Rosenberg with you until 6 o', clock, then it's Mets baseball. Our truth will be in studio coming up at 4 o'. Clock. No belt on the line.

Allen (26:56)

No, no, no. No fight. We're on good terms now.

Don Hahn (26:58)

Yes.

Allen (26:58)

Me and our truth.

Don Hahn (27:00)

So that's all good.

Allen (27:01)

He is a super interesting, funny, charismatic. And Don, when you get a phys, when you see him in person and you know that he's 53 years old.

Don Hahn (27:12)

Your head's gonna explode.

Allen (27:13)

You're not gonna understand what is happening. I mean, Alan looks great for his age.

Rosenberg (27:19)

He does for his age, he said.

Don Hahn (27:20)

But our truth is.

Allen (27:22)

Well, you look great, period.

Rosenberg (27:23)

For his age. Yeah.

Don Hahn (27:24)

Because if you were 17, I think there's an issue.

Rosenberg (27:26)

Yeah.

Allen (27:27)

For 17, I mean, still have a good physique, but I'd say you're, you know, you've seen. It's kind of been tough on you.

Rosenberg (27:32)

By the way, he's. He's three buttons down. I mean, you guys are a little.

Jimmy (27:36)

It's.

Don Hahn (27:36)

Come on. We were on television three buttons down.

Rosenberg (27:39)

Now he's wearing ESPN varsity jacket, which is. Also means he forgot a.

Allen (27:44)

Look how much chess that is, dude. On television.

Rosenberg (27:46)

That much chess?

Allen (27:47)

Yeah. All I see is chest. It makes it to the bottom of the screen.

Rosenberg (27:50)

Okay.

Allen (27:51)

Am I wrong, Don?

Rosenberg (27:52)

I just, I sent him. I said, I said you missed a button.

Don Hahn (27:55)

Thank you. So talk about a Tuesday at 4:30. And then again, we're off at 6 because of the mats. Let's hear from you. 1-800-919-3776. Let's start it off with Jimmy in Connecticut. You're on ESPN, Jimmy.

Jimmy (28:09)

Well, first off, I gotta thank Don McGregor personally because today's my 31st birthday.

Allen (28:15)

Happy birthday.

Jimmy (28:16)

I woke up this morning and I woke up this morning to a gift from my father, which was a cameo video of Don saying Happy birthday to me and talking a little bit. So thank you, Don, for doing that. I appreciate it a lot.

Don Hahn (28:25)

It was my pleasure.

Rosenberg (28:26)

You do cameos?

Don Hahn (28:28)

Yeah, I do. Sometimes I feel like I'm the Only.

Rosenberg (28:30)

One in the world that does.

Don Hahn (28:31)

Oh, you're missing out because people love you and you'll make some money. But I kind of do it just for the love of the people.

Rosenberg (28:37)

Wow, that's awesome.

Don Hahn (28:38)

And that's true, because I get so often I give half of them for free. Anyway, what's up?

Jimmy (28:46)

So that was me. That was. That was my happy moment. The not so happy moment is going to be talking about my beloved New York Giants. And I. I don't even know why I do this to myself on my birthday, but I'm a maniacal fan. What can I say? I watched the Giants play. And look, I agree with you, Don. The biggest issues is at the top for the Giants. It's ownership. And I don't know how you're going to get out from under that until Marisol is the team or retires one day. So that's another discussion. But when I watch them on the field, the same issue has plagued them. The same biggest issue has plagued them for the better part of 15 years. And to me, it's the offensive line. Now, I know the most important position in today's NFL is the quarterback, and it's not close. But you think about a great offensive line, what it can do. I mean, look at what Saquon is able to do when he goes in behind a real offensive line. Look at what. I know it's one game, but look at what Daniel Jones can do. Do you really think that Troy Aikman and Amit Smith would have had a shell of the careers they had if they didn't have the offensive line the Cowboys had in the 90s? I'm not saying it's the end all be all, but they've been through multiple GMs and multiple head coaches and the same issue has always plagued them. It just baffles me.

Don Hahn (29:47)

Yeah, because it's not like you could be mad at them, Jimmy. And happy birthday and thanks for the call if they didn't address the issue right. But you know, your center's a second round pick. I mean, Thomas has been hurt, but he used a first round pick. It looked like he was the right pick, but otherwise these guys have come via free agency. So they chose these guys. They thought this would help. And even going back before this regime, I remember you and Rick were doing a draft show when they, when they drafted Flowers. I mean, so they've, they've addressed this offensive line and haven't been able to make it work. So you tell me all those offensive lines stunk. Bad break on all of them, or are they not being coached properly? There's something wrong with the culture that every year it's the same issue all the time.

Rosenberg (30:31)

Don, one thing to point out is two tackles that they took in the top 10 and it's. It's more than one regime now are ending up as guards. Think about that for a minute.

Don Hahn (30:43)

Yeah. Or in the case of Evan Neal, a healthy scratch.

Rosenberg (30:48)

Well, he's. But they're turning him into a guard. Right. They feel like maybe he's better at guards. Right. Like, that's another problem. It's. Assessment is not working out. All those things not working out. Andrew Thomas has turned out right. Like, that's. That's been good, but. Yeah, like, that's always been a problem. But doesn't it always feel like the bad teams have bad offensive lines? It always feels like that the bad.

Don Hahn (31:08)

Teams have bad because games are one on the trenches. And if you can't protect your quarterback, can't open up holes for your running game, you don't have time to throw the football then. Of course. But is it always, we have a bad offensive line or are they just not coached properly? Because we, we just talked about how bad coaching could screw up a quarterback. Can't bad coaching screw up everything else, too?

Allen (31:27)

What about, by the way, let's not leave out. Not a draft pick, but let's not leave out the boatload of money they gave Nate Solder to come here and not be able to play.

Don Hahn (31:34)

Right. So no matter who they put in there, I can't play. At the time, he was the highest paid left tackle in the history of football.

Rosenberg (31:41)

About that. Yeah.

Don Hahn (31:43)

And that's, you know, and that's, you know, that's the previous regime. Let's go to Ted in the truck. You're on espn, New York. What's up, Ted?

Jimmy (31:50)

Hey, guys. How you doing?

Don Hahn (31:51)

Good.

Jimmy (31:52)

Hey, so, you know, listen, I go to all the Giant games. You'll see me at the home opener, you know, when they play the Chiefs, I'll be sitting in the end zone, front row, banging on the wall, going crazy. I've had Giant season tickets my whole life. I've been to a lot of games. And I'm a psychopath to watch the film after the game. And I'm not saying the line played well, because it didn't. But Russell Wilson missed a lot of throws downfield. He missed Slayton on two touchdown passes. Was Slayton at his guy beat?

Rosenberg (32:21)

Right.

Jimmy (32:21)

He's looking at the rush. Okay? He's looking at the rush. And when you're looking at the rush as a quarterback, you're dead. Okay? You're not going to be a good quarterback. And, you know, we won't look at the rush. I really don't think. I think Jameis will not. I'm not saying that they need to play dart because I thought Allen. Allen hit it right on the head. You don't play him because you need to. You play him when it's right for him. And right now it's not right for him. The line's not good. He's going to get killed. So why not play Jameis? Jameis will go downfield. He will make us more exciting, you know, as a Giants. And I don't need to see Russ. We have no allegiance to Russ. He didn't win for us. He's not. He's not a Giant. But play Jameis.

Allen (33:00)

I've been locked.

Jimmy (33:00)

I don't see how the watch.

Don Hahn (33:02)

I don't have a problem.

Allen (33:02)

Jameis is the best choice they have right now.

Rosenberg (33:04)

I think he's the next choice.

Don Hahn (33:06)

Yeah, I think you guys are right. Listen, I'm not defending Russell Wilson. I'm just saying that, you know, we thought Daniel Jones was the problem last year, right? We thought that Eli was cooked. Like we keep saying, the quarterback this, the quarterback that. And I just think sometimes it's the coaching. Now, do I think with the greatest coach in the world, Russell Wilson is getting this team to the playoffs? Of course not.

Rosenberg (33:26)

Again, Sean Payton gave up on him and said, take the money and leave. Keep that in mind.

Don Hahn (33:31)

Right. Well, again, Russell Wilson screwed that up because he was a diva and still thought he was great.

Rosenberg (33:37)

But they saw him play, Right, But. And realized what he does, right?

Don Hahn (33:42)

And Pittsburgh threw him away.

Rosenberg (33:44)

Is not going to work anymore.

Don Hahn (33:45)

But, you know, again, say what you want about the Pro bowl, but in Pittsburgh, you know, he threw 16 touchdown passes, five interceptions in 11 games, right? So if he had played a full season, he's probably throwing close to 4,000 yards and 25 touchdowns, like, so he does have some skill left. He's not an elite quarterback anymore. He's not what he was in Seattle. Denver was just a mess, and Denver was trying to build something and they weren't going to do with Russell Wilson as a stopgap. I think Russell Wilson could be fine, and Russell Wilson could probably win you some games on a functioning team. I'm arguing the team's not functioning right now. It doesn't matter who the quarterback is. And no offense to Winston or Wilson.

Allen (34:21)

Get those guys killed.

Don Hahn (34:22)

They're Not a part of the future. I'm not damaging my young quarterback that I have invested not only a first round pick in, but also equity to move into the first round and have this kid get damaged. Not going to do it. So to me, it's not really about Russell Wilson. Yeah, you probably could do better than Russell Wilson. He was right.

Allen (34:41)

Not all stop gaps are created.

Don Hahn (34:43)

Yes, but they didn't get, they didn't score six points because Russell Wilson stunk. The team stinks, the coaching stinks. And I'm tired of always being about the quarterback. And again, I know it was a different regime and I'm looked upon as an Eli apologist, but this is aged very well for Eli. The way the Giants have been where it's like all Eli's done, what do they do? They made the mistake of thinking they could win more with Eli, but it was just. No, the offensive line stunk, the team wasn't very good, it wasn't very well coached. And that's why Eli looked awful. Because bad coaching is going to make your team look awful.

Allen (35:17)

It's a great point. It has aged well for him. I just pulled the Michael K because I'm wearing the earpiece in.

Don Hahn (35:21)

Oh no, I don't have headphones.

Allen (35:23)

But no, no, it's a great point. Like you really take for granted just how good Eli was. There hasn't been a sniff since Eli. No, I mean the Daniel Jones season. We always talk about it. It wasn't special. It was, it was a good favorable schedule, a great playoff matchup, 15 touchdowns.

Don Hahn (35:41)

Seven and he had additional seven on the ground for a nine, seven and one team that kind of did it with mirrors and wasn't very good.

Allen (35:48)

Played the worst playoff team, who we all knew was the worst playoff team and then got completely just dog walked by the Eagles in historic fashion.

Don Hahn (35:55)

And that opened the door for what has been one of the worst two plus years in the history of the frame.

Allen (36:00)

And I saw other people, you know, other people in our field were also yelling about the frustration of just sort of seeing the same look on, on Dable's face. It's funny how like coaching is so hard, you know, you, you start to lose and whatever your act is just immediately like Don, you were saying it earlier about, you know, Mike McDaniel and his sort of being the outsider, nerdy, outsider analytics guy that starts to seem much less cute when you're not winning. It's the same thing with Dable's sort of, you know, somewhat tough guy, old school football approach. Not cute. Anymore. And now Alan's talked about this. He's in this weird spot where he's practically, you know, begging neighbors to not get frustrated because he's not in a position where he can put his foot down with anyone anymore. Who's the person who we can stand over now?

Don Hahn (36:55)

Yeah, he was. Daniel Jones was his whipping boy. Go rip into him. Yeah, make him see Russell Wilson.

Allen (37:01)

Make him stay face down in the mud. Down 40 in the pouring rain at MetLife Stadium. There's no one left for him to do that with. He can't do it. So it's, he's, he's really in a bad. This could get guys, and I'm not wishing this, this giant season and the coaches have it could get very ugly here very fast. Based on the reaction that I've seen across New York media since Sunday where they lost to, let's be honest, this isn't me being that guy. They lost to a much better football.

Rosenberg (37:28)

Team, lost to a top 10 team.

Allen (37:30)

They lost to a top team in the league. But still they didn't get destroyed. They got beat. And the beating they've taken here in New York makes me feel that if this continues for a few weeks, it is going to get incredibly loud, that bill.

Rosenberg (37:45)

Which is why they can't listen to it.

Don Hahn (37:47)

Yeah, don't listen to it. Shut it down. But we'll see.

Rosenberg (37:51)

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Don Hahn (38:00)

So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills but it.

Allen (38:04)

Turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial.

Don Hahn (38:09)

Give it a try@mintmobile.com switch upfront payment of 45 for 3 month plan equivalent to 15 per month required new customer offer for first 3 months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy taxes and fees extra. C mintmobile.com thanks for listening to the.

Rosenberg (38:23)

Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

Allen (38:26)

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

Rosenberg (38:27)

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. I thought I put something in the group chat that is just an example of why sometimes we cannot overcome overreact to certain things. So as we said, the Giants had five opportunities at the two could not get into the end zone. I just sent you a play that was basically a just a simple little trick play, a little bootleg. It worked to perfection. And Russ, instead of sprinting to the pylon stops because a linebacker was within about five or six feet of him. And rather than just trying to outrun the linebacker, he. And back in his day, of course he could easily do it. I'm stopped and he throws it to the back like there was nothing there. So there are times where we're going to get on the coaching and we're going to get on the offensive line when you sometimes do have to recognize the fact that the guy you have out there either doesn't believe he can do it anymore. Doesn't what? Maybe that was a business decision because he thought if I'm going to run, but I might get caught. Like I, you know, that was not an aggressive play by the quarterback at all and it called for it. So there's a lot of things at play right now when it comes to.

Allen (39:41)

I don't know if I think he can get it.

Don Hahn (39:42)

I'm not.

Rosenberg (39:43)

Come on, man.

Allen (39:45)

I don't think he gets it.

Don Hahn (39:45)

Maybe back. And listen, we all know he's 36 years old. 26 year old Russell Wilson, different story. But the theme of the Dan Snier tweet and he's got a giant podcast is that according to him, this was a play that was not on film. They thought that they were gonna shock the commanders and the commanders had it figured out. They sniffed it out.

Rosenberg (40:08)

Did they?

Don Hahn (40:09)

Well, yeah, there's nothing there.

Allen (40:10)

It looks like they have a called.

Don Hahn (40:11)

Play that is not a play designed for Russell Wilson to run it in. It was a play designed to work and it didn't work. The commanders were not fooled by it whatsoever. Now you're right. The 26 year old Russell Wilson probably figures he's got the legs to beat the linebacker. But I'm looking at the play, I.

Allen (40:27)

Don'T think he's got the angle.

Don Hahn (40:28)

I don't, I don't. The 36 year old doesn't get there. Maybe he can make a miss. But that was a play designed to work and no one was open.

Rosenberg (40:35)

Dude, he. I feel like he had. He left the blinker on the term was so slow. He. The fake handoff and pivot was so slow. Everybody was going right. He had the whole left side turn quick and go. He took his time. I'm telling you, man, like I see it that way.

Don Hahn (40:54)

Yeah, but you're one line.

Rosenberg (40:55)

There was one linebacker with two blockers.

Don Hahn (40:57)

But looking at the play, Russell Wilson isn't darting to the pylon. He's. His first instinct is to look for what he thought was going to be somebody Wide open in the end zone.

Rosenberg (41:06)

Yeah.

Don Hahn (41:07)

Like if the play is designed as a bootleg, then he immediately takes off to the pylons. But you know how that works.

Rosenberg (41:14)

No, I get it. But I've seen enough of this to know that when you look and it's not there, go right, not hesitate.

Don Hahn (41:22)

By the time looking at him, by the time he looked and saw no one open, there was cut off.

Rosenberg (41:28)

Okay.

Don Hahn (41:29)

A 26 year old Wilson would have been able to make the adjustment, but at 36.

Rosenberg (41:33)

Okay.

Don Hahn (41:34)

I'm just disturbed by the fact that it was a play that they thought they had the commanders completely fooled and weren't.

Rosenberg (41:42)

Yeah.

Don Hahn (41:42)

Like, so that's to me, a play that was supposed to work and flat out didn't fool anybody.

Rosenberg (41:47)

Yeah, you didn't get a good block on the line on that, that left side. That, that was key to get that block. And that didn't happen either. You got blown up right there.

Don Hahn (41:53)

It's.

Rosenberg (41:54)

I don't see who get, who gets blown up. But yeah, that was, that was, that was the.

Allen (41:58)

Well, but either way, it goes back to what we talked about yesterday with Kurt Warner of just whatever what was once innovative about Dable's offense. It's not surprising anyone these days.

Don Hahn (42:08)

And listen, we look at Dable and when, when they got him, it was, well, he was the quarterback whisperer to Josh Allen. Remember, Josh Allen was what, the third or fourth quarter quarterback taken in that draft. And now he's become one of the best quarterbacks in football. And we were hoping as Giant fans he'd be able to apply that to Daniel Jones. And then the hope was, well, he couldn't apply to Daniel Jones because Daniel Jones stinks. And now some evidence is beginning to pile up that maybe it was.

Rosenberg (42:33)

Give it another week. Give it another week.

Don Hahn (42:35)

I know, that's why I said evidence. It's not. Listen, the jury's still out yet. Right, but, but clearly it didn't work with Daniel Jones here. And we don't know if he was responsible for Josh Allen because it doesn't look like Josh has missed a beat. And even if he was a quarterback whisperer, Allen doesn't make you a great head coach. Well, maybe he does work well with quarterbacks. Maybe he sees something other people don't see. But there's a lot of other responsibilities to being a head coach and a play caller and in designing plays rather than I know how to get something good out of a quarterback. Doesn't make you a great head coach. Does it make it a great play caller?

Rosenberg (43:09)

It Takes us back to the beginning of the. Of the hour and the conversation we had at the very top. What we saw last night with the Vikings, what we saw last night in Chicago was the example of, you know, Kevin o', Connell, one of the bright young coaches in the sport. The stat that just jumps out at me is in his, in his career he's 27 and 10 in one possession games. That is the best winning percentage of his generation of coaches. And there's some great ones, 25 or more games and it's the second best. All time. All time. So this is a guy that not only knows how to develop quarterbacks because he made Kirk Cousins work, he made Sam Darnold work. Out of nowhere, just thin air suddenly turned Sam Darnold into a functioning quarterback. And now he's trying to do it with a rookie or a rookie of Jace in JJ McCarthy. And you saw first half versus second half, what a complete. Actually fourth quarter you saw confidence stay in that kit. But it's play calling, it's preparation and it's also understanding how to make sure that everybody, everybody's where they need to be. Like, like understanding that when J.J. mcCarthy was going south mentally he didn't let it happen. And I think that's important too. That's exactly the kind of coach you need when you're trying to rebuild with a young quarterback. Exactly what they have in Minnesota. And Dable has to prove that with Jackson dart his hand picked quarterback, the one he chose, knowing that Cam Ward was not going to be available to them.

Don Hahn (44:36)

Let's go to Mike in Orlando. You're on espn.

Allen (44:38)

Hey Mike.

Jimmy (44:39)

Hey guys.

Rosenberg (44:40)

I don't.

Don Hahn (44:40)

What's up?

Jimmy (44:42)

So Don's right today. Don was right yesterday. Don was right all last year. It is. It's a coaching problem. It's an ownership problem. Fortunately, yeah, our owner is not a good football owner. Fortunately. He's not Jerry Jones level where he has his hands involved in everything. And you can't see a path where it will ever work. He just needs to get it right one of these times and stick to it like we've seen way in the past. But I'm just so sick of Dabel. I'm so sick of the coaching staff. You can't be bad at the beginning of every single year. You can't never find ways to make things work. Good coaches make things work. It's as simple as that.

Don Hahn (45:17)

Well, that's what, that's why coaching in the NFL is so very important. If this is the NBA, my talented player finds a way to win a game. LeBron James will find a way to win. Steph Curry back in the day finds a way to win. But in football, yeah, you're going to need the horses. But feels like in a cap era, everybody's got the horses. Just a matter of putting them in the right situation. And when it's the same problem over and over again, guys, you point to bad coaching. And here's the thing for Dable, he could feel good about. He's not the first bad coach they've had. Judge was a bad coach, Shermer was a bad coach, McAdoo's a bad coach. And then it circles back to the ownership not being able to find the right people. I hope he found it in Shane. I've seen enough from Shane to give him another opportunity. There is some talent here. If you love Dart and you want Dart to start, well, you have Shane to thank for that. He made that happen. But we'll ultimately see.

Rosenberg (46:15)

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

Allen (46:18)

I don't want to know how this.

Rosenberg (46:19)

Is Sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.