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- [00:00]
A
Don, I had never seen holes like that before.
- [00:03]
B
Han, I'm not comfortable touching it. I'm not, no. And Rosenberg.
- [00:07]
C
I'm not breastfeeding.
- [00:08]
A
No. But I, I, this isn't North Dakota. This is New York.
- [00:12]
B
This is Don, Han and Rosenberg.
- [00:16]
D
The best threesome I've ever heard on.
- [00:18]
B
ESPN New York and streaming live on YouTube on a Friday in New York City with Don Lagreca and Peter Rosenberg. Eventually. I'm Alan Hahn. 800-919-3776 is the number to be part of the conversation on a Friday. We got a lot to talk about with you and a lot of different things. First of all, Don did not get his three pointer last night, these Thursday games. But the Denver Broncos offense, my Lord. So Don's already out when it comes to three. Peter and I have a chance at six points. The best Don can do now is three points this weekend. We'll make our picks a little bit later on in the show. Before the boys join us here, I wanted to just point to something as the Giants have a game this weekend against Chicago and everything's going to be about stopping the run, right? And there's all the talk about Brian Dable now for the rest of the season because we already can establish that they have a quarterback. They have Jackson dart, and that's great. And you're going to watch him develop and you're going to watch him become the quarterback you hope he can be, which is a franchise quarterback. But nothing's going to be decided about him and his future this year. You have no idea what he's going to be. You got to put real talent around him. But one thing you do know is that Brian Dabel's offense looks like it's supposed to look with him at quarterback. In fact, it looks better than it looked with Daniel Jones. Donnie, this, I went back in his six starts, they're averaging 24.1 points per game. And you know why I know that's all offense? Because the Giants defense don't score. They give up points, but they don't get pick sixes. They don't get fumble recoveries for touchdowns. They don't score. It's strictly what the offense does. And this kid's giving you 24.1 in the last four games, 27.5 points a game. So tell me like if I'm Brian Dabel, I'm going, look, the offense is looking the way it's supposed to look because we got my quarterback there. But, but if you're Jackson Dart, you got to say But I hate losing, so I don't want to tether these two. As much as you wanted to believe, the quarterback and the coach are kind of tied together. And Dart has been very complimentary of Dable and appreciative of. He believed in me and all those things. But when you think about this, Don, last year, Dable's offense averaged 16 points a game. The year before that, under 16 points a game. The one year they were good, made the playoffs, 21 points a game. Sure, this kid's doing things with the offense of the Giants. Haven't seen offense scoring at this rate in 10 years, so that could do his first season.
- [03:04]
C
That's really saying something.
- [03:05]
B
I mean, it's unreal. I kept going. They just can't be right. But I kept looking like, no, no, it's right. 26 points a game they scored in 2015. He's scoring 24 a game and 27 over the last four. So I don't think if, like, if I'm Dart and you watch his post games and every time they lose, he's 2 and 4 as a starter, he looks miserable. And I love a quarterback that hates losing, that doesn't try to reason losing. He doesn't try to make anything right or find the positives or the silver linings. No, he hates it. I love that about him. But if I him and people are saying Jackson Dart could save Brian Dable's job, I'm him going, I don't know if I want to save this dude's job because I want to win.
- [03:48]
A
Yeah, you want to win. And also, it's so funny how we just automatically when a quarterback performs well, that it has to be the coach. The reason why. Well, correct me if I'm wrong. The previous three years, Brian Dabel had Daniel Jones as his quarterback. And even in the year they made the playoffs in 22, 15 touchdown passes for Daniel Jones, seven rushing touchdowns. They certainly didn't do it with a tremendous offensive team. They were led by Saquon Barkley. They were opportunistic, and they won nine games and won a playoff game. Now, Daniel Jones couldn't get anything done. So the answer was, well, Daniel Jones isn't any good. Well, now Daniel Jones goes to Indianapolis and might win the mvp. So doesn't Dabel take a hit for that? He had a quarterback. He had a quarterback that had ability. Couldn't get anything out of him. Now Jackson Dart comes in. Now Jackson Dart has improved the offense immensely. It has now become a legitimate threat. They're scoring more Points. They're converting more on third down. Now we give Dable credit. He had a quarterback and Daniel Jones apparently couldn't do anything with him. Now he's able to do it with Dart. So instead of giving Dart the credit and saying, you know what, I think this kid can flat out play and I think this kid could handle a regime change. It's, oh, we can't move it because Dable's the reason why he's performing so well. Well, then how come Daniel Jones didn't perform well?
- [05:09]
C
That's. Well, that's the part I found ridiculous about this conversation all week. I mean, the fact of the matter is we know that Jackson Dart is a player. I mean, Allen used it within the terms, within this offense. Is that, is this his offense or is this him shaping an offense around what he already know works for Jackson Dart? Like, I don't know if this is the mind of Brian Dable doing great things as much as tailoring a plan that works and a pretty simple plan at this point that works for the kid. The kid has shown you that he's got something done. I'm not convinced he has anything to do with it.
- [05:42]
A
And now you bring up something very important, Peter, is that, listen, Daniel Jones wasn't overly impressive in 22, but he was effective. You know, he was responsible for what, 22 touchdowns, 15 in the air and seven on the ground. So that's not awful. And they want, they want a playoff game. And then defenses go to work on them, start figure out the weaknesses, the tendencies, and then doesn't do anything. So eventually there's going to be a book on Jackson Dart. Eventually he's not going to be surprising anybody. So what's going to happen? We're going to bring Dable back because Dart performs so well, and then everybody goes to work on him. And then does it go the same way it went with Daniel Jones where now that there's a book on him and we kind of crack the code, it takes the creativity of the head coach or in this case, the offensive guru to then readjust and make it better. And instead it ended up going the same way that Daniel Jones went. I mean, we've seen this act before, guys. Effective quarterback being completely ineffective in 23, 24. Now, I think Jackson Dart potentially can be better, but I don't know that. And how do we know that bringing Dable back isn't just going to go the exact same way it went with Daniel Jones in years two and three once defenses kind of figure them out? So I Understand giving credit to the head coach and the coach in this case. But guys, I don't want to sound like a broken record. It can't be the end all, be all of bringing Dable back. It just can't.
- [07:11]
B
No. And also what to watch on Sunday in Chicago is a defense that has to stop a run and they can't stop the run. This is a defense that has had many issues this season, many issues last season. And Brian Dable's fingerprints are all over that too. Even though he's an offensive guy who's the one that couldn't get along with with Wink Martindale and sent him on his way and then brought in Shane Bowen and the defense, the Giant defense. The year they made the playoffs was the reason why they made the playoffs. That defense was really good.
- [07:43]
A
Yeah.
- [07:43]
B
The second year when they didn't play, when they were two and seven start Wink was pissed. Why? Because his defense was carrying their weight and they were frustrated with the offense and how God awful it was. Like I told you, it averaged 15.6 points a game. What defense is going to win when your offense is providing you 15.6 points a game?
- [08:03]
A
Not going to work.
- [08:04]
B
So you can understand the frustration. But the head coach supposed to be a CEO. We've talked about this, how important it is to also have the ability to be a leader of men and to understand how to delegate and, and understand also how to handle two sides of the football and make sure that they're all in. They like I got to put out this far. I got to put it this far. He was so focused on the offense. He let Wink do what he wanted defensively because you know, again, Martindale's a, he was a veteran. Like he knows what he's doing. Experienced defensive coordinator. But when they started having animosity and frustration, that's where the emotion came in. And that's all the stuff to me that, that is going to take him down in the end. And if you're John Merritt, that's the stuff you have to look at. You can't look at, wait a minute, we can't do this. They just found their quarterback and you don't want to mess with this kid because look at the team you're playing. They drafted Caleb Williams, then they brought in Ben Johnson in year two. Caleb Williams has looked a lot better. The offense has looked real like you. You can do it early in the player's career. There's no reason to say you can't.
- [09:05]
A
If he's the quarterback of the future, it's not ideal to change regimes. It's not. I'm not going to take it.
- [09:10]
B
No, of course not. Stability.
- [09:12]
A
But it doesn't automatically mean that it's going to lead to failure for the quarterback or tell me that the chances are it's going to be as big a failure as keeping Dable and then hoping it's all of a sudden going to work on a consistent basis. Guys, it's about winning games and you're not winning. Jackson Dart has impressed everyone around the National Football League. They are flat out impressed with the way that he's handled himself, the way that he has played. And they're not winning games, okay, they've won two games. They beat the Chargers and I give them credit for beating the Chargers. But let's face it, the Chargers aren't the Chiefs, they're not the Bills, they're not the Lions, they're not the Eagles. All right, then they beat the Eagles. But were the Eagles the Eagles when they beat them. And okay, you had Denver on the ropes. Denver's proven to you last night. I don't know how great they are but they were good enough to score 36 points in the fourth quarter against your team. It didn't age great, don't you know? And I don't know how they scored 36 points combined since that fourth quarter, since that game. And your response to having the worst regular season loss in franchise history was to get completely throttled by the Eagles and completely embarrassed last week by San Francisco in which they just ran the ball down your throat. And even though I never played and even though there are players that say I'm dead wrong, it looked like that defense quit. And you have your defensive coordinator because of your head coach who said on Hard Knocks, if you remember, get him. They're the. They've got the best run defense in Tennessee. Whatever. He said he had some sort of a quote. He threw some stat out about how well they do against the run. So now we got to hire him. So you run Wink Martindale out the door. He's your hand picked defensive coordinator and he stinks.
- [10:52]
B
Yeah, like bad. Bad.
- [10:54]
A
So guys, honestly, I don't even know why we're having this conversation. They just both have to go, you got to blow it up.
- [11:02]
B
Right.
- [11:02]
A
I'm sorry. You're just going to. And Shane's got to go to. I don't know about that.
- [11:06]
B
I don't know about that.
- [11:07]
A
Well, because undable at this point. No, but listen. All right, so Dable. But the kicking situation is an absolute joke. GNO is not going to go this week. They can't find a damn kicker. Come on, man. You gave Slayton a contract extension. He's done. He's cooked. All right, you take a look at this defense and you could say, all right, well, you know Shane Bowen, but, you know, I'm sorry. Going out and drafting talent. We saw that with the Jets. The jets have let go of Joe Douglas. Joe Douglas drafted talent. He made a great trade. You know where he screwed up? He couldn't get a quarterback, and they didn't win games, and you're out. You know, going out and drafting talented players is half the battle. Getting the right players in the right situation, adding depth, and then having those guys go out there and win for you is the ultimate objective. I'm sorry, we're not handing awards out to who goes to the most Pro Bowls, who has the most talent. We hand awards out at the end of the year for the team that wins the most games and the team that wins the Super Bowl. So give me an average team that wins over a team that's got studs all over the place and can't win. So doesn't the general manager take a hit for that, too? You're bringing in the right people. But I'm with you. If I had to let one go, it would probably be Dable over Shane.
- [12:25]
C
Oh, has to be.
- [12:26]
A
That's not even close. But why are we even trying at this point? Why? You had four years. You had one point.
- [12:32]
C
No, you might as well. I hear you, Don. If you're going to blow one out, blow it all out.
- [12:35]
B
Let's let it go.
- [12:36]
A
Let's stop playing reindeer games here. You're the New York Giants. You got money. It's still a respected franchise. Even though you puked all over yourself over the last decade, you're still the New York Giants. You've got a quarterback that I think everybody's going to want to coach. Go out there and flex and bring in a new general manager to head coach and get it right. Let's do it. And the. And the idea where we just can't keep making changes. Well, you keep making changes until you get the damn thing right.
- [13:02]
B
That's the reason why I didn't make changes last year. Because he got caught up in the documentary.
- [13:07]
A
He had zero confidence and didn't extend them and said, go out there and win me games and save your job.
- [13:12]
B
Well, guess what?
- [13:13]
A
Third consecutive year, losing seven of your first nine games.
- [13:17]
C
Well, I'm telling you, I think I stumbled onto this two Days ago. Guys, your New York football cheat sheet is you root for the Giants to lose and the jets to win. There's no purpose in the jets really losing out. That's not a big win for the Jets.
- [13:32]
B
The funny thing is, is that even if you root for the jets to win, I don't think they're going to win.
- [13:35]
C
Well, no, they probably won't.
- [13:37]
B
It doesn't matter. It don't matter.
- [13:38]
C
You can't affect the outcome. But I think you would like to see Aaron Glenn accomplished something with this group. Whereas if I'm a Giants fan, I don't want to see Dable accomplish anything with anyone. I've seen enough.
- [13:48]
A
I agree with you, Peter. And you know how I feel about tanking and losing games and all that stuff. I think it's bad for the culture. It eats away, it erodes and ultimately is bad. But you're right in the sense that if you want this to be blown up, the only way to get the blow up is if they lose out, they gotta stumble into a few wins here might convince John to keep it and run it back and God forbid, extend them. Now, if you look at the history of the Giants and I'm reading Jordan Ronan's book and it's tremendous about the history of the Giants and we've had them on about it and I'm just finishing it up, we're reminded that even after winning a Super Bowl, Tom Coughlin was only given a one year contract extension going in to 2010 to a 2011 season because they weren't sure they were going to bring him back. So they extended them by a year. So they could do that. They could say, all right, we're going to give Shane and Dable another year. So they're not 100% lame duck, but doesn't everybody look at that as a lame duck? Good job there.
- [14:48]
B
Jordan.
- [14:48]
A
His lady.
- [14:49]
B
It's really good.
- [14:49]
A
It is very well written.
- [14:51]
B
I'm into it as well.
- [14:52]
A
So they could do that. But, but here's the, here's the other thing. And we just, we had, we had Damian Woody on. We've had Booger McFarland on this Week and they both had the same answer. There's still nine weeks left in the season. Let's see what those nine weeks look like. So as a Giant fan, all right, go 09 the rest of the way. Finish with two wins, they'll blow it up. But if you do find a way to win, well, then maybe I was wrong. Maybe Dable deserves to come back. And Dart won You some games. I mean, there's still value in winning though, isn't there? Maybe this team goes out, wins seven of their last. I think, no, that's not going to happen. Well then, then I think everything, I think everything's hunky dory, right? Like you got your quarterback, your coach got off the mat, place the defensive coordinator and you move on. But what's, what, what's, how realistic is something like that?
- [15:39]
B
It's not, it's not when you consider how many injured players they have on the offensive side and just how bad the defense has been. It's as simple as that. I just, I, I, the only thing I, I am watching for the Giants now is how Dart handles this. Like this is for him. I, I am curious to see like two, three years from now where he's talking about the dark days. My rookie season, man, we couldn't win a damn game. And the frustration he was dealing with because like I said, when you see him at the podium now, we were kind of, you know, we held him accountable for putting, you know, doing the cartoon character stuff post game where he shows up like his, his walk in outfit which has, you know, it's, it's, he's trying to be cool, I guess. It's, it doesn't look good at a podium when you lose. And we were, remember we were, we were taking him to task about that. Like you don't need the glasses and all that stuff when you're talking about losing. But what doesn't change is what he wears on his face, which is the expression of frustration. And so these are things that the more this team loses, remember there's still freaking, what is it, nine games left like, or eight games left?
- [16:50]
A
He, like nine weeks.
- [16:53]
B
Like if they, if they won't, don't win another game. Or if they win one game and he has to go through seven more losses, it's going to wear on him, man. You know, like you could see that he definitely carries these losses and it frustrates the hell out of him.
- [17:07]
A
See, that's why it's not, it's, it's, it's too easy. It's, it's such a lazy analysis. Just say I'm rooting for the Giants to lose because you bring up an excellent point. If Dark goes out there and continues to play well and just loses every, you're going to, you're to going. You just got to shake this kid. You just, it's not good, it's not good to wear it every single Sunday to sit there Prepare, ball out. Work your tail off just to see the team lose. Yeah, you got to see some wins here, guys. I mean, honestly make the decision beyond the wins and the losses. That's why I always said to you, how many wins does Dable and Shane have to have to come back? It was going to be hard anyway with how difficult the schedule is. What does it look like? It's not just the fact they're 2 and 7. Look how it's looked non competitive against the 49ers having one of the worst losses in the history of any regular season game by any team in Denver. You know, humiliated, blowing, you know, blowing leads and having winnable games slip through your fingers. It has not looked good. So whatever the record is, it has not looked good. But you're not going to make a change now. Let's see how it rides out. I can't. I guess the final analysis is, guys, I can't kill a caller to say I want the Giants to lose out. I can't kill that opinion because there is value to that. But at the same time, I always see value in winning. And for the Jets, Peter, especially because you want to prove you've got a coach. They're trying to change the culture. They're trying to make this organization attractive for a veteran quarterback to come here and winning games down the stretch is going to do that. If you've got any hope of Joe Burrow agreeing to a deal to New York or anybody, it's going to have to be for a team that is winning games that, that looks like it's got a bright future and looks like it's got a good general manager and a head coach. And that is not going to look good if The jets finish 2 and 15. No matter what stupid draft pick you're able to get out of that 2 and 15.
- [18:57]
C
And remember, they could win out, they could lose out. They're bringing back Muji and Aaron Glenn next year, right? So you might as well win out. Do the best you can.
- [19:06]
B
Yeah, well, again, it's, it's, it's. I don't know if they have enough on the field to do that.
- [19:11]
A
They probably don't know, but you want to see.
- [19:13]
B
What you want to see though, is that what, what has been a morgue, right, A locker room that's been a morgue this whole week, that by the end of the year, like we always said that first year with, you know, the biting off kneecaps and everything with Dan Campbell, that first year started out just God awful, like it was Painfully bad. And he was mocked. But towards the end of the year, there was this sense of, okay, like, like we know what they're trying to establish. Then the next year they got off to a slow start, but by the end of that second season, everybody knew something's different in Detroit. Like, no one was laughing anymore. Aaron Glenn's got to get there sooner rather than later. Right to where it's. Nobody's laughing anymore. Nobody's saying, same old jets anymore. They aren't the butt of the jokes anymore. That has to start to show. You need tangible evidence that there is real leadership with the organization and that you can start to feel like, okay, you could see it start to shift then from what it looked like in the first couple of weeks. I just don't know if they have enough talent. Well, they're going to put on the field to do that.
- [20:21]
A
It's two things. Are they going to win? Most likely not. But. But from a rooting interest standpoint, if you're a Jet fan, yeah, you want to. You want it to look as good as it can. And if you, and if you lose because you stripped it down, well, then that's the reason. Not because your coach doesn't know how to handle timeouts. Your coach doesn't know what he's doing. Players quitting, those are all things that are going to reflect poorly on the organization and make it almost impossible to rebuild the way you want to. So go out. It's actually an envious position to be in because it's like there's really no pressure. Like you're not going to sit there stressing whether they win or lose. If you're a Jet fan because you know the score, but to just sit back and just, hey, have fun with it like you did in Cincinnati. And then you followed up. Peter brought up a great point. You know, you had it. You had a great bye week with the Trades coming off a thrilling fourth quarter win against Cincinnati. Go out there and win a home game against Cleveland, which is certainly doable. Hey, that's a hell of a three weeks for them. It's probably the best three weeks they've had in a calendar year.
- [21:23]
B
A win, a big trade deadline, right? Then another win, and then you try.
- [21:28]
A
To play the role of spoiler, right? Go out there and see if you can stop this train that called the New England Patriots. See if you can mess with the Buffalo Bills and just make it look like, hey, you're the fun organization with the bright future, with the hot young coach and offensive coordinator looking for A quarterback. You're out on the town. You're the pretty girl with a brand new dress. Let's go out. Let's go dancing and see what happens.
- [21:55]
B
I don't know if the jets are pretty good.
- [21:57]
A
Well, if, you know, listen, there's a lot. There's a listen.
- [22:00]
C
It's relative.
- [22:00]
A
It's all in the lighting, right? I mean, you got. You gotta hope it's a dark club.
- [22:04]
C
Well, listen, how about this? How about this? If you're gonna dress up and you want to go out, how about you come to msg?
- [22:09]
B
I like it.
- [22:09]
C
With Bud Light and ESPN New York. You just go tap on the Bud Light tile in the ESPN New York app and enter for your chance to win a pair of tickets in the suite with me. We're gonna hang out. You can register through November 7th.
- [22:21]
A
You're a good hang, Peter.
- [22:22]
C
Oh, come on. Of course I am. Listen and enter through the Bud Light tile to score your shot at the Ultimate Fight Night. Bud Light, the official beer of UFC. So make your move now on the ESPN New York app. 21 and over. No purchase necessary, void or prohibited. Rules on the ESPN New York app. Please enjoy Bud Light responsibly. How perfect is it, by the way, guys, that I'm in. I'm in the studio on a Friday and today.
- [22:42]
A
Today's the day.
- [22:43]
C
Couldn't find a parking spot. Why on a Friday?
- [22:46]
A
On a Friday when everybody else is working from home. It's an odd. It's been a strange week for sure. But we're gonna fight through it with a really fun Friday show.
- [22:54]
C
Damn right we are. This is an ad by BetterHelp. Shorter days don't have to be so dismal. It's time to reach out and check in with those you care about and to remind ourselves that we're not alone. As seasons change and days grow darker sooner can be a tough time for many. This November, Better help is encouraging everyone to reach out, check in on friends, reconnect with loved ones and remind the people in your life that you're there. BetterHelp does the initial matching workforce you so you can focus on your therapy goals. Short questionnaire helps you identify your needs and preferences. And our 12 plus years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate means we typically get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist anytime from our tailored recommendations this month. Don't wait to reach out. Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist yourself, BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step. Our listeners get 10% off their first month. Just call pound 250 and say the keyword timeout. That's keyword timeout after calling 250.
- [23:55]
A
Avoiding.
- [23:56]
E
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- [24:54]
B
For listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [24:57]
C
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [24:59]
B
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [25:07]
A
Game Time is brought to you by Telemardu Irish Whiskey. Because when it's game time.
- [25:19]
C
It'S tolly time.
- [25:20]
A
Wow, that caught somebody by surprise, right?
- [25:23]
B
Well, I tried to scream it but.
- [25:26]
A
The mic was the long one's coming later.
- [25:28]
C
Sorry.
- [25:29]
B
Wow.
- [25:29]
A
No, no, it's true.
- [25:31]
B
Listen, I appreciate the warning.
- [25:33]
A
There you go. The Rangers, the Red Wings coverage immediately following us on 880 at 6:30 the Islanders host the Wild. At 7 the NBA cup group play the Nets face the Pistons in Brooklyn. Now the Nets are coming off their first win of the year and that's at 7:30. NYC FC will take on Charlotte in a decisive game three in the MLS playoffs. So that's not nothing. Tullamore do the original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Iris whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the Tullamore Dew. Honey. During today's action, glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew response.
- [26:08]
C
Don what happened?
- [26:09]
A
What happened where?
- [26:10]
B
What happened where?
- [26:11]
C
Your look, the camera angle changed. We had an angle.
- [26:16]
B
He's way back. He's showing off the Ramapo. You see I had to go I had to go change. I had to get my LIU gear on because, I mean, you're going all Ramapo.
- [26:24]
A
I went ramp. Listen, I'm proud. I'm the first college graduate of my family. And even though Michael would make fun of Ramapo, basically being college of Jason, you know, a rift truck, I. I'm proud to be an alum of Ramapo. I'm proud to be a roadrunner, so, you know, he can do whatever he wants. But I. I was using my phone as the camera, and I'm getting texts, and there's things I need with the phone. So I'm going to try the iPad today, and I think it's a nice look. No, no, no.
- [26:54]
C
It's not the last one, was it? This is much worse.
- [26:57]
A
We do a very fun thing on.
- [26:58]
D
The show where we like to change.
- [27:00]
B
Camera angles and shots in the middle of breaks. If I actually will end up going overboard at some point.
- [27:08]
A
Give me the. Give me the. The one shot.
- [27:10]
B
I think I fixed it, Peter. I think I've adjusted it.
- [27:12]
A
You're not.
- [27:13]
B
You can't see it yet because, you know, it's.
- [27:15]
C
He thinks he fixed it, though. I haven't seen it. Yeah, I'm behind.
- [27:18]
B
Peter. Peter. Does he have any bears in the cave? Because this is the time to check.
- [27:22]
C
All right, this is better. This will work. Anthony made it work.
- [27:24]
A
Okay.
- [27:26]
C
But I specifically commented, Alan is the best he's ever looked not in studio, especially coming off of his couple days of the Garden this week, where it looked like he was appearing from, like, a Mickey Mouse flip book in 1977. It was, like, blurred and horrible. I don't know what's going on over there.
- [27:40]
B
Was it really that bad?
- [27:41]
C
Oh, it was bad, but now there's.
- [27:43]
B
A good angle for Peter. Now you're Wilson.
- [27:47]
A
Crispy.
- [27:48]
C
Everyone looks good now. Don, this will work. We're a little bit up your nose, but not too bad.
- [27:52]
B
Don, we gotta invest in, like, just. Just in a camera, an imac, something. Just something that just sets on the table there. And when you do this, you just sit down, turn it on, you're ready to go. All right, well.
- [28:06]
A
What?
- [28:07]
C
I don't know. Anthony just readjusted me. We're getting all set. We're getting us all even. There we go again. There's a lot of things happening here, but at some point, you're going to see all of us on YouTube. This is why you have to watch us on YouTube. You don't know what you're going to get.
- [28:21]
A
I like this. I think it's fine.
- [28:24]
C
Do you want to. Do you want to talk to some people?
- [28:26]
B
We're here to do.
- [28:26]
A
Oh, no, no.
- [28:27]
C
We're here to be fine.
- [28:30]
B
Put them in.
- [28:31]
A
All right. 1, 2, 3. Let's be good. 1, 2, 3. Let's look fine.
- [28:35]
B
Let's just be fine.
- [28:36]
A
We want to sound good, look fine.
- [28:38]
B
That's all a for here.
- [28:41]
C
You want it? You want to talk to the people at some Giants. Don.
- [28:43]
B
Yeah. Come on, please.
- [28:45]
C
For God's sake. Let's get started here with Big Ted in the truck. What's up, Ted?
- [28:50]
D
Hey, guys.
- [28:51]
B
How you doing today? What's up, Ted?
- [28:54]
D
You know, in the beginning of the show, you guys are talking about how Dable shouldn't be attached to Dart and. And how Daniel Jones didn't have much success. And I couldn't disagree with you more. You know, not for nothing, the only reason why we even had Dart is because Dable loved him and made the Giants pick him. So now when, you know, and when he has success, you're going to get rid of them. I think that's insane.
- [29:15]
A
But there's more than two, I'll give him that. He's done a great job with Dart. Is that enough to be a head coach in the NFL?
- [29:24]
D
Yes, and I'll tell you why.
- [29:25]
A
Why?
- [29:26]
D
Because, okay, they're having offensive success still, even with Neighbors and Scatter Boo out their main options. This guy's got no one to throw to. And let me go back to Daniel Jones era. You guys said that the. That the playoff season was on the back of Saquon Barkley. That couldn't be more untrue.
- [29:43]
B
Okay, Daniel Jones won about eight games.
- [29:46]
A
Let me finish.
- [29:46]
B
Let me finish. It was on the back of the defense. No, no. When you're saying something that isn't accurate, we're going to correct it right in the middle of it. Nobody said it was on the back of Saquon Barkley. What I said was the defense.
- [29:58]
A
That was your exact word. I said that.
- [30:00]
B
Don said that. I. I said it was the defense that carried the season because they averaged 20.
- [30:06]
A
What?
- [30:07]
B
They averaged 21 points a game.
- [30:09]
A
Okay?
- [30:10]
B
The offense was great. It was 21 points a game.
- [30:13]
D
What happened. What happened against the Vikings when they won? Daniel Jones was awesome. And let me just take you back the next year. The guy tears his acl, comes back then the next season in like seven months, and everybody just glosses over that. The guy, like, what? You know, you gotta let somebody, like, get into their knee a little bit after having total reconstruction, you know, Saquon everyone gave him all the patients in the world after his knee surgery. No one gave Daniel Jones any patients.
- [30:41]
B
Daniel Jones, when did we. Yeah, that's enough for that. When did we criticize Daniel Jones?
- [30:45]
A
Now, wait, wait, wait.
- [30:46]
B
I'm very confused, but he's.
- [30:48]
A
There's a lot of convenient truths there. Okay? Number one, the playoff season. He threw 15 touchdown passes. He ran for seven. Okay, he was not great. He wasn't awful. And I had mentioned Saquon Barkley because he had the weapon in Saquon Barkley. They made that work for them. Didn't have a lot of weapons and I was a Daniel Jones guy. All right, now the caller is saying, well then Daniel Jones got hurt. Alright, fine, but they weren't all in on him. They gave him a four year contract with an out after two and they were quick to get out of that contract because they didn't believe they had a quarterback. You thought they had a quarterback, but the regime didn't because they were quick to let him go. They didn't give him a guaranteed four years. They gave him an out for two years and they decided to cut him loose. And now he goes to Indianapolis and he's having success. So you want to say that Daniel Jones was great. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. But the regime you're defending didn't think so because they let him go. All right, the offense is performing well and I will give Dable credit. But the one thing I will disagree with the caller is the, that that's the end all be all because the offense is performing well and they're still losing games. And you know what? They would have still lost the game against the 49ers if neighbors played because the defense flat out quit. And the reason you've got a horse, as you know what is the defensive coordinator is because of Brian Dable. All right? And he's the one that decided it's a good idea to throw. So the kid makes an interception against Denver that eventually cost you the game. You can't attach it all to just how the quarterback plays. There's other things that are important to win a football game besides your quarterback. Yes, he is very, very, very important, but he's playing well. And they're still losing games because the defense stinks, the special team stink, the decisions that are made stink. There's no adjustments at halftime. Don't you see that? But we're going to let, we're going to ignore all that because the quarterback's playing well.
- [32:50]
B
He.
- [32:50]
A
Is it possible he'd be playing well anyway because he's a really good quarterback. Did Josh Allen blink after he lost Brian Dable? Did he blink? Did he fart anything?
- [33:03]
B
I probably did.
- [33:04]
A
No. All he did was just start continuing to throw touchdown passes and run for 100 yards and be one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. You know why? Because he's good.
- [33:12]
B
Yeah, yeah. It's as simple as that. We're starting to see it. That's the obvious part. But I think what Ted might be missing here, unless he's being the contrarian, which it's Friday, don't do. Don't be that guy. Be that guy yesterday when it's that guy Thursday. But there's more to coaching a team than, hey, he got the quarterback. He knew to pick that guy. Great. He had an eye for a quarterback that he wanted. That's great. The problem is the head coach has to be the CEO. The head coach has to be able to hand. There's a reason why, like, like Peter, you have Cliff Kingsbury. There's a reason why he's with the, the commies right now because he's really not head coach material. We learned that in Arizona. The guy is a offensive genius. We know he understands all that stuff. But when you have to put him in charge of a team, put him, you know, leader of men, it's not in his skill set, it's not in his wheelhouse. It's whatever it is that does happen with some guys. And unfortunately some guys just aren't cut out for the big job, for the big chair, but doesn't make them bad coaches in other areas. And maybe Brian Dabel's really good at coaching offense and understanding quarterback play and understanding how to develop a quarterback. Maybe all that is true. But I see a guy that went into the tent that he gets emotional, got into a fight with the defensive coordinator who was doing a really good job. I saw a guy that does that. I saw a guy, by the way, that verbally abused Daniel Jones a lot on the sideline. He doesn't do that to this kid.
- [34:49]
C
No, no. He bear hugs him. He nearly kisses him on the mouth.
- [34:52]
B
But that's so. So sometimes we have to understand that to say they need to get a head coach or a new head coach. You can't just say, well, but they found the quarterback. You can't change it up. No, you can, because the rest of the team still needs a better leader. Clearly they're losing these games.
- [35:09]
A
Is, was it, was it emotion or is it strategic? Alan, the fact that he berated Daniel Jones. Was that him being emotional or was it performative to say this is the reason we're not winning?
- [35:21]
B
This isn't my guy.
- [35:22]
A
All right? And you lost. So then you bring in Jackson Dart, and you're hugging kissy with him because he's going to be. He's my guy. He's the guy I want to coach. Guess what? Your record's the exact same. 2 and 7. 2 and 7. It doesn't matter. So lose. I'm sorry. At some point, all of this. Am I rooting for my. Rooting for the judge? Do I get a trophy for having a great quarterback, or do I get a trophy for winning? I'd like to win. I'd like to go to the playoffs. I'd like to build something here. It's all about winning. Why do we want a great quarterback? So we could win. Why do I want a great head coach? So we could win. Why do we want a great defense? So we could win. We. Why do we want a bunch of Pro Bowlers? So we could win. That's why. If we can cut all the other and just win, Heck, I'll win with Marco's best friends in second grade. If I could win, fine. I'd have the cheapest roster. I'd make a ton of money. I just want to win. Okay? Get me wins. None of this seems to get any wins.
- [36:18]
B
No. And that's all we're looking for. And you're. By the way, Don, your quarterback feels the same way. It's killing him to lose. He hates losing.
- [36:26]
A
Yeah.
- [36:27]
B
He's not used to this. Doesn't want to get used to it. That's the part where if I'm. Only If I'm the owner, that's the stuff I'm looking at, is this kid hates losing. I don't want him to ever get used to it. I don't want him to be. Get beaten down so much that he's just used to losing that he resigned to it when it's not that good. Like, I don't want that. So I. That's why you assess everything as it's going on. And while he didn't want to disrupt, he saw that documentary about his family. And the fact that, you know, Wellington was all about, like, you know, he had to show some patience. And so John was like, you know, we keep turning over too much. I need to be patient, too. So he gave them one more year. That's it. Now I don't know if I changed the whole thing up because I Do think the front office in place does? Do they? They they deserve more time to continue to build the roster. They took over a team with someone else's roster. They had to make moves. It was going to cost him a full year before they then started to get their own guys. But head coach, I question whether or not you have the right guy to lead a franchise that hasn't won consistently in a long time. That's what made Tom Coughlin so valuable. The guy came in and he got everything organized and they would win and he had to do it with a young quarterback and he still figured it out.
- [37:48]
A
This is a real good story about Bronx and his dad, Ryan. Real United Airlines customers.
- [37:53]
C
We were returning home and one of.
- [37:55]
B
The flight attendants asked Bronx if he.
- [37:57]
C
Wanted to see the flight deck and meet Captain Andrew.
- [37:59]
D
I got to sit in the driver's seat.
- [38:01]
B
I grew up in an aviation family and seeing Bronx kind of reminded me.
- [38:04]
D
Of myself when I was that age.
- [38:06]
A
That's Andrew, a real United pilot.
- [38:08]
B
These small interactions can shape a kid's future.
- [38:11]
A
It felt like I was the captain. Allowing my son to see the flight deck will stick with us forever.
- [38:16]
B
That's how good leads the way. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [38:22]
C
I didn't listen to anything you just said.
- [38:24]
B
Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [38:32]
A
All right, let's continue with the phone calls. 1-800-919-3776. Froedler Front Friday is coming up at 4. 30 picks at 5, 45, ENN at 6.
- [38:41]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [38:42]
A
Let's go way out to San Diego and talk to Tim. You're on San Diego. What's up?
- [38:48]
D
Hey, gentlemen. Appreciate you taking the call. I agree. I think it's time to blow it up with the Giants.
- [38:54]
A
And why not take a big swing. Sean McVay. One year left on his deal. Stafford's getting older.
- [39:02]
D
Maybe wants to come in and take a Jackson Dart.
- [39:05]
A
What do you guys think about that?
- [39:06]
D
And I don't know how it works.
- [39:07]
B
Trading for coaches, but whatever.
- [39:09]
D
Just a thought.
- [39:10]
A
Well, I think at this particular stage, if McVeigh couldn't get a contract extension, then you're just talking about compensation. So you'd probably have to give up a pick or something. I would. I would kick the tires.
- [39:23]
C
But he's. Wouldn't they. I mean, they'll obviously offer him an extension.
- [39:28]
A
Well, if he wanted out, like, he's just I. Again, he's creating a scenario where he's got one year left. On his contract, if the Giants were to have a vacancy and he wanted out of la, then I guess we can have a conversation about that. I don't know why the Rams wouldn't extend, by the way.
- [39:44]
C
What's the point? If you're Sean McVay, why do you and your hot wife want to live in Los Angeles with a team that competes every year when you could come to New York and be a part of the Jets? I'm just saying.
- [39:53]
A
Well, no, he's talking about the Giants, I think.
- [39:55]
C
I mean the Giants. Sorry. You come to New York and stuck with the Giants.
- [39:58]
A
Well, he gave a suggestion, all right. You know, Stafford's on his way out, and there's a good young quarterback in New York I think I can work with, I can win with. I don't know why anybody wants to leave anywhere, but that's what you're. You know what, Allen? What you're talking about with the jets trying to find a quarterback. Maybe the Giants would be that way, trying to find a head coach. All right.
- [40:17]
B
Like the Knicks did.
- [40:18]
A
The Knicks tried, right?
- [40:19]
B
Yeah. Yeah. Didn't work out, who would it be? Look again, It's New York. You're the big market. You swing it. Yeah, you got to try find a coach. Find a coach. Like, target a coach that you want. I still think you don't do this stuff publicly. I do know you got to do this stuff through agents, and you just try to figure out who. Is there somebody that's like, you know, I don't love it here. You know, I don't. I don't think we have a chance here.
- [40:41]
A
And Anthony reminds us our fine producer. You know, wasn't that long ago he was flirting with going into broadcasting, retiring from being a head coach right now. Was that because he.
- [40:50]
B
Did he get a contract extension after.
- [40:52]
A
He said that he did, and now that. Now. Now it's happening again. So listen. No, but he's. You. He used the threat to get a contract extension. So could there be a threat? Hey, maybe I'm thinking of going, giants need a head coach, and they. And maybe the Rams blink and give him a contract extension. Or they go, you know, listen, it's.
- [41:11]
C
The caller's not wrong to throw the name out. He's. He's. No, he's a great coach who has one year left on a deal. So.
- [41:17]
A
Yeah, absolutely.
- [41:18]
B
I would. I would throw. I would throw. Let me go around, like, tell me somebody that you wouldn't want. Kyle Shanahan.
- [41:26]
C
You don't. You don't want him.
- [41:27]
A
Yes.
- [41:28]
B
You're right. Right. So. So maybe he's there and he's like, you know what? I can't get over the top here. Can't get, can't get there. Like you, you, you try to find. What about Leflore in Green Bay? Does he want, you know, like, like I would, I would just look everywhere. Is there somebody that just wants a fresh start? Obviously, the Mike Tomlin stuff in Pittsburgh has always been there, but I don't think the Giants are in a place that you're going to find. And I brought up Clint Kubiak. Now again, he's, he's a generational, you know, coach, as far as. Is that the right word? Generational? What do I mean?
- [42:02]
C
Second generation, if that's what you mean. Oh, no, then forget it.
- [42:04]
B
Yes. That's not what I meant.
- [42:05]
C
You meant second generation?
- [42:06]
B
Yeah. What does that mean? Like, whatever. So it's the fact that is that he's inexperienced as a head coach, but obviously there's, there's some history, family name. I, I think the Giants need to stop going on the hamster wheel of the next hot young coach or the next big name coordinator.
- [42:30]
A
Right.
- [42:31]
B
Well, I hate retread, but you know what I mean. You got to bring in somebody that has some experience that can get you back on track. Well, the jets get you organized.
- [42:41]
A
The jets are the ones that go for inexperience because it's cheaper. That's the feeling. Or not just cheap, but also somebody that Woody can have under his thumb. Obviously, the less experience, the more that you're going to have to just listen to what the owner has to say. That's why I always think Woody didn't want to bring in a big name because that's somebody that would ignore Woody and not give Woody the time of day. Because I think Woody wants to be involved. The Giants, their thinking is up until the day bullshane regime to have to have ties to the organization, somebody that they know, somebody that's part of the family that had coached here before. That's how they got Coughlin because he was the wide receivers coach on the 90 Super bowl team. Got to get Gettleman because Gettleman was a scout here, you know. And then they finally broke through it by going to Buffalo and bringing in Shane and Dable. That's their thing. They got to get over that. There's got to be some sort of connection to the family and bring in somebody that's got some experience, somebody that's won before. Unfortunately, all those guys are either cooked or under Contract. Right. I mean, I don't think they're going to go the homegrown route. They're not going to go to get Bill Cower out of television. Bill Parcells is too old, unfortunately. Bill Belichick. I think that ship has sailed.
- [44:00]
B
Yeah.
- [44:01]
A
So those are the guys that. I use it pejoratively, but that are done, cooked, and everybody else is under contract. Unless you want to go halfway with a Mike McCarthy. Is that somebody that, hey, he did win a Super bowl, but he's probably not going to get you there again. He'll clean up the mess.
- [44:21]
B
How'd it go in Dallas?
- [44:22]
A
Well, it went as far as, like, Jerry Jones lets it go. Right. Like, I don't. Again, I don't think he's going to win you a championship anymore, but he's definitely gonna clean up the mess. Right. He'll. He'll. He'll. He'll. What? What's the. What's the place that comes in after you flood the basement and they come in.
- [44:43]
C
The place that comes in when you flood the bit.
- [44:45]
B
You know, serve pro.
- [44:46]
A
Yeah, like a place he'll serve pro.
- [44:49]
C
It.
- [44:50]
A
He'll clean it up. He'll make it presentable again. You go, you can move back in.
- [44:53]
B
Yeah.
- [44:53]
A
You know, he's not. He's not gonna turn water into wine, but he won't embarrass you. But is that something you want to do? I mean, again, the options, it's very similar, guys. Jets trying to find a quarterback, Giants trying to find a head coach. The difference is you can't draft a head coach.
- [45:15]
B
Yeah, but you can. You can pay whatever you want.
- [45:18]
A
You don't have to worry about the cap, Right?
- [45:19]
B
Yeah, you get the best.
- [45:20]
A
Like, pay them whatever you want.
- [45:21]
B
You got to get the best, but you got to get the best fit.
- [45:24]
A
What else we have, Peter, I think there is a Mike McCarthy suggestion on the. On the line.
- [45:28]
C
Let's see.
- [45:29]
B
Ryan.
- [45:30]
C
Here we go. It's Ryan. Yeah. Hey, Ryan.
- [45:32]
D
What's going on, fellas? How y' all doing?
- [45:34]
A
Good, buddy. All good?
- [45:35]
D
Yes. My first time ever being on with you guys. Oh, yeah, man. Shout out to the last caller, too, because that was a really good idea with the Nick Vay, but. Yeah, yeah, I was thinking about Mike McCarthy. Everybody always gives me crap about saying Mike McCarthy, but I don't know, the guy just Wins. He went 12 and five, three straight years with the Colts. I mean, excuse me, with the. With Dallas. And the reason why he lost those playoff games was Dak not the coach. And he. He reminds Me of Tom Coughlin. He's someone that we need. He had the super bowl, he wins games. And I feel like he'll bring a lot of accountability to this team, something that we need. Because I'm really tired of seeing players at the games. Oh, it's okay. It's not that big of a deal. No, it's not okay. It's not okay to lose. We need players like Dart. That's why I love dart and that's why he's our captain already as a rookie. Because it hurts him to lose. It has to hurt when you lose. And I feel like players just don't. We don't have accountability. And I feel like Mark McCarthy will do that. So I think he should be the coach.
- [46:29]
A
Yeah, I really.
- [46:30]
B
I think it'll be considered. Well, you know what, Donnie? I think, I think he definitely would be in consideration. I think he'd want the job first and foremost. Right. But the only issues, of course, and you know, it's the first thing they'll go to media wise, is he was always dragged about his late game time, clock, management and all the other stuff. Like he gets dragged for that. And in Dallas, you know, there were a couple instances where it really, it really showed up in the worst of times, including, I believe a playoff game right. When the clock just ran out on him. So those are things that. Those are things that are always going to be of concern. But you want to get yourself organized. You want to get yourself right. You got to bring in an experienced coach.
- [47:13]
A
You know what's so interesting when we talk about retreads and such a terrible way to.
- [47:20]
B
I hate it, to say it, we.
- [47:22]
A
Can find the holes like we found all the holes of Mike McCarthy. You know, just the one super bowl with Aaron Rodgers and playoff failings and clock running out and all that. But yeah, we're. We're fine to hire somebody with zero experience because we can't find the holes, because we don't know any holes. But we also don't any good either. Right. So we. We're okay with the unknown, but the more we know, we'll find some holes and we'll talk ourselves out of it. I wonder, ultimately, is that why we go with the inexperienced guy? Because it's a clean slate?
- [47:51]
C
It feels like there's a higher ceiling. If you're a football fan, you hear the name Mike McCarthy. Sorry, there's no movement because you already.
- [47:57]
B
Know what it is. You've just seen it to what you're getting.
- [48:00]
C
But if it's a name, you never heard of you.
- [48:02]
A
Go.
- [48:02]
C
Ooh, maybe we found the next Kyle Shanahan or Sean McNally.
- [48:05]
B
That's what you're hoping for.
- [48:06]
C
That's all it is.
- [48:07]
B
But all I could say is this. Mike McCarthy. This would be his third time, right? His first time was pretty. Pretty successful, and then it faded out. Yeah. His second time wasn't great and didn't last as long as it should have. And then his third time, Tom Thibodeau's third time was pretty good. His second time, not so great. His first time, very good.
- [48:25]
A
I am sure the success rate is the same for a retread as it is for somebody that's inexperienced. You just got to find the right guy.
- [48:31]
B
Yep. Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.
- [48:37]
C
I don't want to know how the.
- [48:37]
B
Sausage is made, man. I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app, and your smart speakers.