Hour 1: Giant Collapse

Summary

Podcast Summary: Don, Hahn & Rosenberg – Hour 1: Giant Collapse

Date: October 20, 2025
Hosts: Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, Peter Rosenberg
Podcast: ESPN New York

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Episode Overview

This episode of Don, Hahn & Rosenberg focuses on the devastating collapse of the New York Giants in their game against the Denver Broncos. The hosts dissect the historic loss, assigning blame, debating the direction of the franchise, and fielding fan reactions. It’s an hour of intense emotion, deep analysis, and classic New York sports radio energy—serving both as group therapy and sharp critique for fans in shock.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Historic Collapse: Setting the Scene

• Unprecedented Loss:
  The hosts express disbelief at the Giants’ historic collapse—blowing an 18-point lead with five minutes remaining and conceding 33 points in the fourth quarter, something that "literally hasn't happened in 1,602 games" (Rosenberg, 02:04).
• Comparisons Across Sports:
  Don tries to find a parallel in other sports, likening it to “blowing a seven-goal lead with three minutes to play” in hockey (Don, 01:16), but concludes this is almost unimaginable.

Where It All Went Wrong

• Critical Mistakes & Coaching Decisions:
  The hosts debate the "fateful choice" to pass the ball up 10 under five minutes, rather than running out the clock:

  "As great as the kid played, that decision to throw right was the fateful decision...That’s what happens with the rookie quarterback." (Rosenberg, 02:46)

  • The conversation critiques Head Coach Brian Daboll for mismanagement, arguing he should have protected his rookie rather than going for the kill shot.
• Rookie Quarterback Management:

  “A head coach with a clue would know: I can't put my rookie quarterback in that situation...If the defense gives it up, they give it up, but...make them go 70, 75 yards, not 30.” (Don, 03:38)

• Kicker Woes:
  The lack of a competent kicker and continued faith in injured veteran Graham Gano are cited as fundamental operational failures.

  “How do you go into a game in the NFL without a kicker?...That’s on Shane.” (Don, 10:04)

Organizational Accountability & The Case for Overhaul

• Blame Spread Wide:
  Don and Rosenberg argue the collapse is organizational—a "sloppy operation" reflective of deep flaws in game management, talent acquisition, and coaching leadership.

  “This isn't a one thing. This falls on everybody. There’s a lot of people that have blood on their hands for a loss like that, an embarrassing loss like that.” (Rosenberg, 13:40)

• Daboll’s Emotions and Leadership:
  The hosts critique Daboll for being too emotional (“he loses his...ish against his own coaching staff in front of everybody”—Rosenberg, 06:45), and lacking the CEO leadership necessary for a New York franchise.
• Parallel to Giants’ Past
  Don recalls previous humiliating Giants’ losses—Miracle at the Meadowlands, San Francisco collapse—and highlights how past debacles triggered regime changes:

  “If you want to spin this as a positive...this will be the undoing of this regime.” (Don, 07:59)

Silver Linings & Hope for the Future

• Quarterback Bright Spot:
  Even amid disaster, the hosts celebrate the potential of rookie Jackson Dart:

  “Despite the mistake, you got a quarterback, man. Like Donnie, you got a quarterback...When you see him in the post-game, that’s not an act. I think this killed him. That tells you: you got one. And I don't care who's coaching him, you're going to win with this kid.” (Rosenberg, 12:49)

• Necessity of Staff Overhaul:
  The hosts agree that, painful as it is, the loss may ultimately “be what finally moves this organization into the right direction,” opening the way for better leadership (Don, 24:06).

Listener Calls: Fan Therapy and Frustration

• Vinnie from Staten Island:
  Echoes the hosts’ criticism of Daboll, adds that "if I hear anybody say Kayvon Thibodeau is a good player, I'm gonna lose my mind because he absolutely stinks." (Vinnie, 27:31)
• Tessa in West Caldwell:
  Delivers an emotional “top five” list of “bums” responsible for the loss (herself for believing, the coaching staff, the kicker, the team in the final 5 minutes, and ownership). She delivers a passionate fan perspective and ultimately sees the loss as “the dagger we needed...to finally get rid of them” (Tessa, 31:21-34:54).
• Mike from Orlando:
  Calls for a “clear house” of the entire coaching staff, including GM Joe Shane, for repeated failures to address obvious roster deficiencies (Mike, 45:00).

Deeper Analysis: Conditioning, Defensive Play, and Lack of Preparation

• Altitude and Conditioning:
  The collapse is partially attributed to the Giants’ potential lack of physical conditioning—blamed on Daboll’s light training camps and illustrated by the defense “sucking wind” in the altitude of Denver (Rosenberg, 28:24; Don, 29:07).
• Coaching Panics and Playcalls:
  The hosts cite poor decision-making leading to unnecessary risk, missed opportunities to run down the clock, and a tendency to "look for the home run" instead of steady play (Rosenberg, 20:46).

  “It just felt like panic. It just felt like he got a little too emotional.” (Rosenberg, 20:51)

• Leadership in Adversity:
  The Giants’ lack of a steadying force is contrasted with Sean Payton, “a really good coach who’s won a Super Bowl,” keeping his team focused and prepared for opportunity (Don, 17:17).

Big-Picture Takeaway: The Need for a Real CEO Head Coach

• The Coordinator-to-Head-Coach Trap:
  Don retells a lesson about head coaches—the need to be organizational CEOs, not just play-callers or “quarterback whisperers” (Don, 50:26).

  “It doesn’t matter what you’re good at as a head coach. You have coordinators for that. You have to handle the media, motivate, be a CEO.” (Don, 50:26)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You saw something that has never been seen before...no team has ever lost worse than that. Ever, ever.”
  — Don Hahn (01:14)

• “This is a rookie quarterback, as we know...horribly mismanaged. This just feels—again, if you wanted to make the case...against Shane Bowen...Brian Daboll made the choice to fire Wink Martindale.”
  — Rosenberg (06:07)

• “The Giants entire season is a suitcase without a handle. It’s right there. They just can’t pick it up.”
  — Don Hahn (23:48-23:54)

• “This is the dagger that we finally needed. Like the dagger that we needed in our side and pulled it back out. And now we’re bleeding out.”
  — Tessa, Caller (34:44)

• “You don’t blow a game like that and give up 33 points in the fourth quarter because of one reason.”
  — Don Hahn (09:59)

• “All you want as a fan is to know that your team week after week has a chance to win. And they did. In fact, they not only had a chance to win, they had a chance to blow out this team on the road.”
  — Rosenberg (48:15)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:55 – Opening monologue, theme of Giants’ loss
• 01:14 – Hosts react with disbelief to unprecedented nature of the loss
• 02:46 – Breakdown of the turning point: the choice to throw, not run out the clock
• 06:07 – Debate on coaching decisions, leadership, and staff drama
• 07:59 – Big-picture historical comparison, why this loss could spark change
• 12:49 – Discussion on rookie QB Jackson Dart’s leadership and potential
• 17:47 – Critique of prevent defense, missed extra point, and final defensive series
• 28:24 – Fan call: conditioning, altitude, and defensive fatigue
• 31:21 – Emotional "top five bums" call from Tessa, encapsulating fan despair
• 45:00 – Mike from Orlando: calls for mass firing
• 47:29 – Discussion of ongoing roster issues, especially at kicker and receiver
• 49:46 – Comparing “sloppy operation” as a phrase for the whole Giants organization
• 50:26 – Don’s lesson on head coaching: leadership over X’s and O’s

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Tone and Energy

The episode moves between exasperation (“How do you go into a game in the NFL without a kicker?”), gallows humor (Don’s story about eating a peach during the Miracle at the Meadowlands), and rare optimism (recognizing the flashes of promise from their rookie quarterback). The trio’s deep New York sports knowledge and emotional investment drive candid, sometimes raw assessments—offering catharsis for fellow suffering Giants fans.

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Conclusion

“Giant Collapse” captures the pain and bewilderment of an extraordinary football loss—interweaving sharp analysis, fan testimony, and the indispensable chemistry of Don, Hahn, and Rosenberg. Ultimately, the hosts argue that the Giants’ miserable defeat could trigger welcome change for a long-frustrated franchise, especially if their new quarterback is the real deal. For fans reeling from Sunday’s disaster, this episode is a thorough, bracing debrief—and maybe, the first step on the road back.

Transcript

[Don Hahn]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Peter]

Han sauce was everywhere. And Rosenberg, if you want to stay up, he's got the energy that matters.

[Don Hahn]

This isn't North Dakota, this is New York.

[Rosenberg]

This is Don Han and Rosenberg. John Frenchie Fuqua on 8 80, ESPN and the ESPN New York app.

[Don Hahn]

I think I speak for everyone in my listening voice when I say, go New York, go New York. The Knicks, baby. They're starting tomorrow or Wednesday or whenever the hell they're starting, but they're starting soon because football is giving you nothing but Ajita. And yesterday. Oh, dear God in heaven.

[Rosenberg]

Um.

[Don Hahn]

Oh my God. Yeah, you saw that. You saw something that has never been seen before. You know how I know? Because no team has ever lost worse than that. Ever, ever. Think of the sport. What's the equivalent in hockey? What? Blowing a seven goal lead with three minutes to play. What's the equivalent of basketball, Alan? A 50 point lead in the fourth quarter?

[Peter]

No, no, no. Would you say, what is the.

[Rosenberg]

Would you say it's, it's game three? Knicks, Celtics?

[Don Hahn]

No.

[Rosenberg]

If you're in Boston.

[Don Hahn]

No, no.

[Peter]

Yeah, yeah. No, I was 30.

[Don Hahn]

It was 30.

[Peter]

That's, that's, that's that's a lot.

[Don Hahn]

No. What? That, that, that, that, that doesn't happen. What, what you saw in Denver doesn't happen.

[Rosenberg]

Well, literally doesn't happen.

[Don Hahn]

It doesn't happen.

[Rosenberg]

No, no, no, no. But Don, it literally hasn't happened in 1602 games.

[Peter]

That, that's, that's up 18 with five to go. Yeah. Is that what the stat is?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. But just to see the box score in all of its glory. Zero.

[Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Zero.

[Rosenberg]

Yep. Zero, yep. And then 33.

[Peter]

You know what, when you think about it that way, because I'm gonna be honest with you guys, watching it play out for me didn't feel as shocking for me as a non fan. I was like, oh, they got it. They got a good lead. It never felt like it was. The lead was insurmountable. But then you look, it's five minutes left. Yeah, that's an insurmountable lead. That is an insurmountable lead again, up.

[Rosenberg]

10 under five with the ball. That, that to me, felt it was over. And the choice to throw was the fateful choice. There's a, there's a, there's a million other things you can go to. You can go to. Obviously, Shane Bowen playing prevent. And, you know, we can question that late, which was, you know, also a problem. Not having a kicker who's good. That's a bit of a problem. Chasing that extra point, obviously missing that last extra point, which could have at least forced overtime. Those are all things we're going to point to. But as great as the kid played, that decision to throw right was the fateful decision. And that's what happens with the rookie quarterback. If he eats that. You got to feel good about how the clock just kind of keeps ticking.

[Don Hahn]

No, it's.

[Rosenberg]

They have one time out. They got to burn it.

[Don Hahn]

To answer Peter's question, it was on at the pick. It was on at the pick.

[Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

That's when you knew it was turning, swung. They got the ball inside the 30 yard line. The defense was sucking wind. You knew right there they were in all kinds of trouble. And I blame, I blame Dable because what do we say at nauseam over the last couple of weeks? I can live losing games if the kid makes a mistake, because that's what rookies do. I text the thread the second he threw the pick like rookie. That's what they do. They make mistakes like that. And a quarterback, a head coach with a clue would know. I can't put my rookie quarterback in that situation. Right. He's all hyped up. He's had the game of his life. We're about to beat the Denver Broncos. He's going to try to do too much on this play. So let's force the Broncos to use their final timeout. Let's punt it the hell out of there. And listen, if the defense gives it up, they give it up. But I'm going to make them go 70, 75 yards, not 30, and I'm going to make them use one of their timeouts. That was the thing to do. But instead, these coaches all want to be aggressive and they all get worked up and they all want to, they want to go for the kill shot, which I'm fine with. If you got a veteran, if you got a veteran quarterback, if it's Aaron Rodgers out there or, you know, you go back in the day with Eli Manning and you say, all right, listen, we're going to go for the kill shot because our defense is sucking wind here. I want to put this game away right now. But with a kid, you run the ball, maybe you have him scrambled in the backfield, see if he can maybe find a lane, get the first down. If not, hit the ground, make them call the timeout, punt it out of there. And then it all just fell apart from there. Just fell apart. Completely, utterly fell apart. What was an amazing day. And one of the weird things about X guys is that I don't know about you, but I never get my tweets in real time. Oh, Twitter. I flip on my. And there's Mike Greenberg. I think he's gonna be saying, I never seen anything like that before. And he does. I never seen the Giants play this well. How long has it been since the Giants have been this good, Don?

[Peter]

I saw that this morning. I was like, well, this didn't age great.

[Don Hahn]

I'm getting. I'm getting tweets from people. Are you believing in the Giants now?

[Rosenberg]

Don't.

[Don Hahn]

And I'm like, oh, none of these aged well at all. And I'm just sickened by what happened.

[Peter]

But can I tell you what? Can I give you a hot take though? They deserved. They deserved to lose before the field goal. The last drive was. The last Giants touchdown drive was such a like nothing burger.

[Rosenberg]

The pass interference, they didn't even earn that.

[Peter]

They'd already blown the game.

[Rosenberg]

But that, that felt to me like again, a football gods kind of. Now you're supp win this game, you're not going to love it, but you know, you're supposed to win this game. And. And instead, obviously there was an opposite reaction. But I still, I still keep coming back to the same thing. This is a rookie quarterback, as we know. Yes. This is also, though horribly mismanaged. This just feels again, if you wanted to make the case not only against Shane Bowen, which I've been trying to make the case against Shane Bowen for a while now. Brian Daboll made the choice to fire Wink Martindale.

[Don Hahn]

That's right.

[Rosenberg]

Because they couldn't get along because Wink is a brash guy. But Wink's defenses are good. And could you make the argument that if Wink's the dc, they win that game, don't they? Like, you can make the argument that they. But this is the knock against Dable is. He is so emotional. The tent situation where he's running in there. I almost made a joke yesterday. They're like, you know, Fields comes off the field and they got to check him out. And it's like Glenn goes in to go. He's Good, right? He's good. You're going to leave him in here for a while like it's totally opposite feeling. But he wants so bad to have his quarterback out there and he wants so bad to have his quarterback be the hero in the moment, right? Yeah and he does he and he reacts to everything. He's yelling at Bowen on the sideline. He, you know, he had that issue and that made me think of Wink a couple of years ago when Wink was getting frustrated because the offense was garbage and his defense was playing its tail off and they weren't getting wins. And I'm thinking this is the problem when you have a head coach, especially in New York, you got to have a leader of men and a leader of men doesn't lose his, you know, his ish against his own coaching staff in front of everybody. You manage people. And that I think is the issue here. And that I think is going to be his undoing.

[Don Hahn]

Well and that's why I want as a Giant fan who's lived through many of these games, guys I lived through, I'm old enough to remember 78, the miracle of the Meadowlands. They blew that whole team up after that Herman Edwards play Basar Chick to Zonka. Zonka's not paying attention. The Giants blow a game late while the credits are rolling, everybody got blown out. And then you go back to 2002, the trade drunken game and then the no, no pass interference and the blown lead in the playoffs. I lived through that and I lived through the Jackson play with Philadelphia in 2010. This is Way worse than all of them and the only coach to survive all the ones that I listed was Tom because Coughlin had won a Super bowl and Fossil lasted a year after the debacle in San Francisco. But they fell apart in 2003 and that was it. That was Fossil swan song, that game in San Francisco where they blew the big lead. Alright so if you want to spin this as a positive guys is that this will be the undoing of this regime. And the one negative about even though I root for my team to win and I don't want to see losses is that if they, if they pieced it together and they held on and they won and they're respectable against Philadelphia and they play well against San Francisco and they win a couple of games they're not supposed to behind the back of what looks like the future quarterback in Jackson Dark then the rallying cry is to keep everything as is because you don't want to mess with the rookie quarterback and have him have to change regimes. Now the writing may be on the wall that they finally have to blow this up. Because I'm tired of hearing about quarterback whispers. I'm tired of hearing about guys that can find special people in the draft. And I'm not playing fantasy football, guys. What I need my organization to do is win games. Right now you need, you need the quarterback to do that, you need the defense to do that, you need talent to do that. But once you start putting all those things in place, I want to know that I have an organization that knows how to win games. You don't blow a game like that and give up 33 points in the fourth quarter because of one reason.

[Rosenberg]

Right?

[Don Hahn]

And you said it best. It's because of poor coaching, poor management, poor game planning. How do you go into a game in the NFL without a kicker? How do you do it? How do you give Graham Gano contract after contract despite the fact he can't stay on the field? And when you know he can't stay on the field, why don't you find somebody serviceable enough to win you games? How many times are the Giants going to lose games because they can't kick extra points because they don't have a kicker? That's on Shane. And Dable's got to manage what he has. All right? I look at San Francisco last night and I see a team that's debilitated by injuries in San Francisco. And Robert Sala, who couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag as a head coach, is a damn good defensive coordinator and found a way for the team to win on national television. That's great. Find ways to win games. Your defensive coordinator, offensive coordinator, Kafka, the head coach, win games. Yes. You need to develop quarterbacks. Yes. You need to have a game plan. Yes, this. Yes, that. If you're playing fantasy football, yeah, that all works. I win a ton of money, but if I'm trying to win a Super bowl, guys, this ain't it. This guy can't coach in game. We've seen it too many times before. Can't make adjustments to Philadelphia in the playoffs. Right. Can't win games in the regular season. Lost the Saints game, lost this game, lost the Dallas game. I can't help but think if you had a competent coach, this team might be above.500. But what does it matter, guys? So if you're looking for something positive, maybe this is finally the kill shot where they're out the door and we can finally get some competent coaching in here. But if they hang on and win and maybe massage their way through the rest of the regular season, you're going to have to extend them. Peter. I love the take because they're in the last year of their contract.

[Peter]

I love the take.

[Don Hahn]

So that loss might have. Take the loss.

[Peter]

No, you're right.

[Don Hahn]

No, you know what?

[Peter]

Bathe in the loss. Because if you have, you happen to have held on to that one, you're going to lose a bigger one when it matters more. Because of these guys, they could be.

[Rosenberg]

4 and 3 right now very easily. And by the way, the rookie could be undefeated in his starts right now. That's why the silver lining, as much as no one wants to talk about it on a Monday like this, a day after a game like that, and it's totally understandable, but I can do it. Peter can do it. Because we both don't have. We don't have a stake in this thing. Like, we're both kind of on the outside looking in. And I'll tell you what, despite the mistake, you got a quarterback man like Donnie, you got a quarterback. That guy, what I loved was when he does that effort to get that go ahead, touchdown. Yeah. And by the way, spare me the. He scored too soon. Stop it. You get points late in a game like that. You were down 4. There's no given.

[Peter]

You got to get the point.

[Rosenberg]

So you get the points.

[Don Hahn]

You.

[Rosenberg]

And he does it. He makes that extra effort, he gets there. Then he's at the sideline before the kid misses the extra point, which. Oh, my God. But he's on the sideline. You see what he's doing? You know what he's saying? Win the blanking game.

[Peter]

Go win the bleeping game.

[Rosenberg]

Yeah, yeah, go win the blanking game. He's looking at everybody, the defense, he's yelling the whole sideline, and everybody's jacked up. And instead of him just being jacked up about himself, he's turning around to everybody on that sideline and he's sending the message, go win the damn game. We almost gave it away. I got it back. We win this freaking thing. He was all about that. And when you see him in the post game, that's not an act. I don't think he's putting on any type of act. I think this killed him. That tells you, you know what? You got one. And I don't care who's coaching him, you're going to win with this kid. Well, they got to get it right now around him.

[Don Hahn]

Well, that's the thing that I Disagree with that. You got to get the right quarter. You got to get the right head coach.

[Rosenberg]

I said that. No, no, I'm saying. But you got to get the right people around him, Head coach, the general manager, to. To talent.

[Don Hahn]

And these aren't the right people. They're not. And listen, I was a Shane guy because they do have talent. Me, too, but he lost me on the kicker situation.

[Rosenberg]

Yeah, you can't mismanage that. Don't. That's why what you said to me is the headline of the Giants today. This is not a one thing. This falls on everybody. There's a lot of people that have blood on their hands for a loss like that, an embarrassing loss like that. But as I said, and you said it, too, which is the exact thing a Giant fan should be thinking. Winning this game, even if they want it, running away, but even if they held on to win, it puts you in a place that you might not want to go. And sometimes what happens in life is it's sort of like where you. Where you want to go is, no, no, no, you don't want this. There's a better path ahead. And you don't realize. And these losses that are painful right now can lead you there. Because when you have a quarterback like this, and you are the New York Football Giants, you're playing in New York and you have a defense like that, while the jets can't get anybody credible to want to take their job, you're going to get people lining up for that job.

[Don Hahn]

They're going to want. They're going to want to coach this.

[Rosenberg]

Absolutely.

[Don Hahn]

Because the league is littered with it. Guys, is that we always. Well, I'm guilty of it, too, you know, Got to get an offensive coach. Got to get somebody that's going to help my quarterback. Okay, that's all great. You know, we throw roses on o' Connell's feet because of what he's doing in Minnesota. Can you win a damn game? Can you win a big game? Can you won 13 games in the regular season. Spit the bit in the postseason. Right. That was the team that the Giants lined up with to get their one postseason win. Two teams that can't win in the postseason, somebody had to win it. Then the Giants won it in 22 and it overexposed them. He wasn't ready. But he gets Coach of the Year, you gotta keep him. He gets to make decisions. And now you've seen the byproduct of that. Losing season in 23, losing season in 24, on the way to another losing season. In 25. Yeah, he can coach quarterbacks and yeah, he's a hell of an offensive coordinator. I think he, I think he can end up being someplace and turning an offensive round someplace. But in order to win in this league, you've got to be able to have the head coach that could take the bull by the horns and say, this isn't happening, guys, we can't lose this game and here's why we're not going to lose this game. Bowen, you saw what happened to week two against Dallas. Don't do it again. Don't drop eight in coverage. Let's go. Play ball. You got a second year quarterback, let's go after him.

[Rosenberg]

And how about the fact that you have defensive players after the game, veterans Burns and also Dexter Lawrence. They didn't have to say anything to show you how pissed off they were about that last drive defensively. Look, you had injuries in the secondary. He was probably thinking, I've got to drop eight because I've got two guys that are just not, they're not good enough missing people. So I got to help them. I got to stack it as much as I can, make it as clog it up as much as I can. And you got to give it. Bo Nix threw an absolute dime and the cat, the Sutton catch was unreal. That's a great catch. Okay, but still he's probably thinking, I got to protect people. So injuries were also a factor here. But Banks, what was he, a second round pick?

[Don Hahn]

Yeah, he was a first. He's out there as a first round pick. Right. We're complaining about the injuries. Well, you've got Shane, guys out there that could play defense that are not playing defense. And yes, there were certain things that didn't break their way. You're right. If that gets ruled down to the one like originally on that first down, then they probably score on second or third down and take enough time where they don't lose the game. If they had a competent kicker, if ifs and buts were candies and nuts, we'd all have a wonderful Christmas. Right? But instead there was never a moment, there was never a moment where the head coach was able to take the bull by the horns and say, let's get this done. And then you look on the other side of the field where you have a really good coach who has won a Super bowl that has turned programs around and you left the door open a crack. And he eviscerated.

[Rosenberg]

He said, take it down.

[Don Hahn]

He blew it wide open.

[Rosenberg]

He said it after the game too.

[Peter]

And you had to know by the time we're already too. I understand being upset by the last drive. By the time we're there, you knew what's happening.

[Don Hahn]

Once.

[Peter]

Once the extra point was missed. Oh, we all said how. Don, how many times on this show do we say getting into field goal range? The end of the game is a joke. Everyone does it between the pass interferences. You can get. It's just too easy to get into field goal range.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. The only thing you were going to hope for is that the kid was going to throw a pick or something. A break goes your way. Which the breaks went their way on the. What turned out to be what you thought was going to be the game winning touchdown drive.

[Rosenberg]

Yep.

[Don Hahn]

But I felt all along that even if he had made the extra point, Denver was at least going to line up for a field goal.

[Rosenberg]

Yeah, we were going to have overtime.

[Don Hahn]

And probably win the game in overtime. And the way the Giants defense was sucking wind, unless they were going to have a whole halftime before they started that fifth quarter, that they were probably going to lose the game anyway.

[Rosenberg]

Can we also though, talk about right before they got the gift PI. And then of course the extra, you know, couple of inches because of Peyton going on the field. Why were they throwing so much? Like he was just. They were just throwing up heaves at that point.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. I'm looking at him saying they're giving him some running.

[Rosenberg]

Like you've got time and you had a timeout. What was the need to just keep throwing over the top? And he just. They were just doing nine routes. Is it because you don't trust your receivers? Like you didn't know what to do.

[Don Hahn]

It was just like, it was just a panic.

[Rosenberg]

It felt desperate.

[Don Hahn]

I just.

[Rosenberg]

We need a big play right now. Like, like you got lucky because the one of them have turned into something. But my God, here's what bad coaches do.

[Don Hahn]

All right. And here's what good coaches do across the field. You had a great coach in Sean Payton. Right. He's still coaching as. As everything is falling apart around him. His face is in the playbook. He's still coaching. Right. He's still looking for an avenue to try to win this game because he probably senses I got a tired defense out there I can take advantage of. True. I've got a team that's not this good. They're going to give us a chance. Let's be ready. Now on the other side of the field, you've got a team that's obviously thinking, you know, head button, joking around Jumping up and down. It's like, I can't believe we're going to win this game. Instead of, all right, let's close off those avenues in which we can let them back in. Let's start thinking what we're going to do if we have to all of a sudden need points instead of panic, heaves down the field. As you said that maybe with all the time that they had, they might have been able to, as they did throughout the first three quarters of the game, find a way to be able to move downfield, get first downs and be able to win this game. They caught the break with the pass interference, which I thought was bogus. They also caught the break on the fourth and 19 on the pass interference. Because I don't know if they review that. Will that hold up? I mean, it looked really close to not being a first down.

[Peter]

Oh, yeah, it was right on the line. It was a guarantee. They gave it to him right away.

[Don Hahn]

They gave it to him right away, which I think Denver probably reviews. And then. So now they got themselves deep in territory. Even like earlier in the game, guys, there were yards and points they left on the field and you didn't think much about it. I didn't know. Because they're winning the game.

[Rosenberg]

You know, the third, you know the three and out they had right before the drive that had the go ahead touchdown.

[Don Hahn]

Right.

[Rosenberg]

It was a bad three and out. Scatterboard couldn't get anywhere. They were. They wouldn't let him run. Third and eight and they go over the top to Wanda Robinson. And I get it. Like you try to. Because they probably think, you know, you're just going to run. Like you're going to keep it. Like there's like, like there were some plays that like aired it out.

[Peter]

The one that aired it out and he overshot him by like 5.

[Rosenberg]

Yeah, it worked.

[Don Hahn]

But he just overshot him. You know why? Because he's a kid.

[Rosenberg]

Yeah. But it felt like to me that Davel was looking for the homer. He was looking for a knockout punch instead of like, I've got like, we still have the lead. I still have the clock on my side. If I can just keep working at that. Like they were just. It just felt like panic. It just felt like he got a little too emotional. Does his problem.

[Peter]

Does Dable like, not watch football? Does he like, not know that since the dawn of time, what coaches do when you have a big lead is play mind numbing, boring, prevent football, run the clock at every. You know, many times we've all rooted For a team where you're going, oh my God, we're going to run it three times and punt it back.

[Rosenberg]

But there's a reason three yards in a cloud of dust because you gotta.

[Peter]

Get the time off the clock. You cannot stop the clock and give the ball back to a team that has momentum.

[Don Hahn]

He's Tommy boy with that little piece of bread, right? That's a shiny new toy and he pets it, massage it and I kill it.

[Peter]

Well, you know, and I'll tell you, I'll tell you what, what he should do and jets fans already know about this, is get some help and better help. Need some help, you know, because October 10th was world mental Health Day and this year we're saying thank you therapists. Betterhelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. You get a questionnaire, it's easy. You identify your needs and preferences and with all their experience and leading match fulfillment rate, they usually get it right alright. But you can switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailor recommendations. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform having served over 5 million people globally. All right, this World Mental Health Day, we, we're celebrating the therapists who've helped millions of people take a step forward. Now if you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help you start that journey. Our listeners get 10% off their first month. Just call pound 250 and say the keyword timeout. That's keyword timeout. After calling pound two five zero.

[Don Hahn]

Now we want to hear from you at 1-800-919-3776. We got a big Monday. We've got the NFL binge coming up at 4:30, short show because of the Rangers at 6:30. But we will have an Ennis. So we're looking forward to that. We'll get into the Game seven tonight, but between the Blue Jays and the Mariners and historic performance by Ohtani on Friday, we'll get into the jets of it all. Although I don't even know what to say. I mean I, I've taken creative writing courses, of course Allen was amazing turning, you know, blanket to shine Ola with the Islanders all those years on News Day. You know, I, I honestly don't know how we can enjoy ourselves for a segment talking about the jets. But we will, we'll try.

[Rosenberg]

There's no there's no joy.

[Don Hahn]

But I'm saying, but at least have, you know, intelligent conversations.

[Rosenberg]

Do we have to have a conversation? Oh, we gotta have a. Like, this is misery unlike anything we've ever seen.

[Peter]

And it was so, and it was so predictable. I texted the group, like 10 minutes in. I'm like, oh, this is one of those games they'll be able to win. It's going to be sitting right there for right there. And it sat all day long. Who wants to win a game?

[Don Hahn]

The jets entire season is a suitcase without a handle.

[Peter]

It's right there. It's right there.

[Don Hahn]

They just can't pick it up.

[Rosenberg]

No.

[Don Hahn]

They just cannot pick up a win. They're all. And several of them have just been sitting there aching to be picked up.

[Rosenberg]

We'll have to, because I know there's a lot of jets fans that are in a place right now, so we got to give them some time.

[Don Hahn]

Right now. It's we got to be giant therapy. 1-800-919-3776 and do you think, like me, that as embarrassed as you are, as sickened as you are, that there might be light at the end of the tunnel, that maybe this will be what finally moves this organization into the right direction? It's Don Hahn and Rosenberg hang out with you on a Monday here on ESPN New York.

[Peter]

This is an ad by BetterHelp. BetterHelp therapists have helped over 5 million people worldwide on their mental health journeys. That's millions of stories, millions of journeys, and behind everyone is a therapist who showed up, listened, and helped someone take a step forward. Moments in therapy, like the right question, are a safe space to cry or a small win can change lives. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. This World Mental Health Day, we're celebrating the therapists who've helped millions of people take a step forward. If you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help you start that journey. Our listeners get 10% off their first month. Just call two five zero and say the keyword timeout. That's keyword timeout. After calling 250.

[Rosenberg]

When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by State Farm.

[Don Hahn]

Listening to this podcast Smart move Being financially savvy Smart move. Another smart move having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan.

[Caller/Listener]

Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

[Don Hahn]

Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state.

[Caller/Listener]

Coverage options are selected by the customer.

[Don Hahn]

Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.

[Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want to. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

Game Time is brought to you by Telemardu Irish Whiskey because when it's Game time fellas.

[Rosenberg]

I like when he holds it.

[Don Hahn]

The Rangers host the Wild with coverage immediately following us right here on 880 at 6 30. Coverage of the American League Championship Series. Game 7 is on 1050 at 730 and will be on 880 following the conclusion of Rangers coverage. Tullimore to the original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Irish Whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Dew or try the new Tullamore Dew honey during today's action. Glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Dew responsibly. Without further ado, let's get to the busy phone calls at 1-800-919-3776 and let's start it off with Vinnie Staten Island. You're on ESPN New York. What's up Vin?

[Caller/Listener]

Don, you are a thousand percent right. Sean Payton's face was in that phone book. Was in that play calling book. He was looking for ways to win and the Giants just sitting there, just sitting there. Head button, doing all nonsense. This is your 100% right. This is Dable's exit. Thank God. And one more other thing. I gotta make a point. If I hear anybody say Kayvon Thibodeau is a good player, I'm gonna lose my mind because he absolutely stinks. He can't nowhere near the quarterback. He gets manhandled all game long. Thank you guys. I'll talk to you soon.

[Don Hahn]

That was a bad penalty too that he took. So he could be frustrating guys. There are times he can look very dominant as Peter. He had his coming out party in that nationally televised game a couple of years ago, but he's maddening. He is. But again, how much stock do you.

[Rosenberg]

Put into Don, what's being said also when it comes to coaching the defense now they're playing in Denver, Mile High. This happens. We know about it. The thinner air, extra. We all talk about this, but fourth quarter, they were. They were sucking wind. They were. They looked like they were gassed.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Rosenberg]

And is it the altitude or is it. Dable doesn't run a very physical, very demanding training camp, which is why players, you know, seem to always like it and like him. How much stock do you put into that that maybe this defense, you know, has not been conditioned to the point that they need to be if they're going to play the way they play, which is getting after the quarterback and, you know, being an aggressive front seven.

[Don Hahn]

I mean, I don't know enough about their camp and comparing it to other camps to know if that makes a difference or not. I'd have to listen to players and ex players to know. Jordan had mentioned it, I guess, on DNR earlier today that that might be a possibility. You could see guys that, in between plays defensively, kind of tapping out, saying, you know, we needed a break. They were gassed in that fourth quarter. And I think that's a big deal, and I think that's something that maybe we should keep an eye on. Brian Dabel runs a very light training camp. This is now the second time they kind of collapsed on that end late in games. Like it's something that they need to address. And I think that they were totally out of gas there and they couldn't stop anybody.

[Rosenberg]

There you go. So Jordan sees it.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah. Well, then if that's the conversation, then we have to address it, Right? He knows Denver's on the schedule. Anybody and their mother that follows sports knows what it's like to go out there. It doesn't bother me, but I don't play professional football. But I remember Doc Emmerich saying whenever he would go to a game in Denver, the second he got off the plane, he got a headache. It was just something about the rarefied error that got to him. And it's been going on forever. Happens. Basketball, hockey, baseball, all of it. You know, we see the ball flying out of Coors Field. They had to get the humidor, remember? So everybody knows it's an issue. You know, you got a Week 7 game in Denver, you got to be prepared for all of it. That's all. That's what being a head coach is. That's why it all falls on his shoulders. He brought Bowen in. Right. He's an offensive guy. It's not just about developing players. It's about in game preparation, in game making the right decisions. That's what makes a coach a coach, guys. And if they get everything together, and I agree with you, I think they got the quarterback, and I do think they've got defensive players. It doesn't matter if you don't coach them, because at some point, if you're going to want to win a championship, guys, you're going to have to make decisions. You're going to have to get your team ready. You're going to know how to coach above the game and see what's developing and what's happening. You can't have what happened yesterday happen and convince me that he's a good coach. Can't do it. Let's go to Tessa in West Caldwell.

[Rosenberg]

Oh, boy.

[Don Hahn]

Are you okay, Tessa? Buckle up.

[Caller/Listener]

I'm not. I'm so not. I'm so not. I even. I couldn't even go to work this morning. I couldn't do it. Guys, thank you so much for taking my call. I just want to say that, and I just want to say this. I think this is the first time. Tell me if I'm wrong. Did all three of our teams play like garbage yesterday? Like, no, it's always one team that wins or something like that. Most time has been the commanders. Well, all three of our teams yesterday was just terrible. So that's just that. That's that statement.

[Peter]

It wasn't good.

[Caller/Listener]

I feel like my Giants just, like they sucked the fandom straight out of my soul. Like, yesterday, like, I. I wasn't around. I wasn't born with the miracle, you know, and desean Jackson. Yeah, that was devastating. But yesterday for me was the worst loss I've ever. I've ever been through. And it's like, you guys come up with such great lists all the time. I came up with a top five list, you know, because I think that's the way to keep me calm so I won't, like, scream and you guys be like, tessa, calm down. I didn't want to do that today. So I came up with a top list. And it's just my opinion, okay? It's the five definitions that I feel are the meaning of the word bum. I have five definitions for it, okay? It's just my opinion. So the first one is this me. I'm the first bum. I'm the first bum because I'm a bum for believing that my team can actually be A little consistent, and my team could just not let me down and just make me just want to, like, just jump out a window. You understand?

[Rosenberg]

I guess so.

[Caller/Listener]

I'm the first number one. I'm the first bum. Number two is the coaching staff bum. They're the definition of it. Okay? Gable, Kafka. People keep forgetting Mike is the one calling the plays. People keep forgetting that, you know, he's the one that just wants to throw, you know, on third and fourth. You know, he forgetting that. So the whole coaching staff, him, Kafka, Shane Bowen, all of them. Bum. Number two, number three, Jude McDonough. Because I don't even know his name. With his spaghetti legs, the. The kicker, I don't even know his name, but he's number three. For the definition of a bum, he's number three. How do you miss? Okay, that's all you get paid to do, guys. That's all you get paid to do. That's all you get paid to do. You had a good week to practice. Really? So you. You made every. Every extra point during the week of practice. I doubt that. Okay, cool. Number four. I'm going to be really honest with you. I'm going to be really honest with you. Number four is until five minutes in the fourth. So anytime five minutes in the fourth after the whole entire Giants team, Offense, defense, special team. Five minutes, though, before that, they were phenomenal. Amazing. But day number four and then number five. Number five is just. I'll be honest with you, it's ownership for me. Because at the end of the day, y' all said y' all was going to get these coaches a chance again. These people can't coach. They can't coach. They don't know how to manage time clock. They don't know how to call. Why are you dropping 8? Why are you doing that? We just got burnt in Dallas with that. They couldn't deal with our front for the whole game. I don't care if they was gassed. I don't care. Put anybody in there. Don't let this sport you like. This man in the back, he burping a baby. This man could have freaking went to the store and came back as long as Bo Nicks had time to throw back there. It's crazy. So that's just my top five guys. I'm trying hard. Don, you know what? You always put a good perspective on it. You're right. At the end of the day, this is the dagger that we finally needed. Like the dagger that we needed in our side and pulled it back Out. And now we're bleeding out. But this is what we need to finally get rid of them. I do feel like something has to happen. The kicker better not come on in. You better put Coy in. Do whatever you got to do. I don't care. But I do feel like this is. You're right, Don. This might be what we need to just finally get rid of Davos. Shane might have a shot to stay, but I'll be honest with you, the kick is on him. Why you keep running without a kick is beyond me, but you're right. Okay, I'm calm guys. I'm alright.

[Don Hahn]

Well, just hang in there. Tessa. I do feel bad for people like you, the die hard fans, because that's embarrassing, man. To see something like that, how you're so proud of the team. Peter. We've all had it happen to us. But I don't know if at this level where you go for so proud of your team and so psyched up. I'm watching that game thinking, you know, maybe look at Washington just got destroyed. You know, we're going to be three and four. Maybe we can go hang with Philadelphia. You start fantasizing just about I got a quarterback, it's an exciting team. And just to have it all go right back to how you felt at the beginning of the year. To go from the exhilaration of winning against Philadelphia. This is what I felt 3/4 I felt the way I did against Philadelphia. Yeah. And in the third quarter, the fourth quarter, I felt like I did against Dallas a couple of years ago when they lost on national television. 40 nothing. I mean it is a complete 180.

[Peter]

And you're seeing the score from Dallas and you're going, all right, so we'll be tied with the Commanders then. You see, I mean, I know this is obviously incredibly unfortunate, particularly for me. Daniels is hurt again, so the commander season may be tanked.

[Rosenberg]

Yep.

[Peter]

Right. And you may now go to three and four.

[Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Peter]

And we said the difference. Not. Not that you're.

[Rosenberg]

Think about it. You had the Eagles next. You already got one on them.

[Peter]

If you somehow get another one.

[Rosenberg]

Do you now you own the tiebreaker. Like there's a lot of little nuances to this that was sitting there waiting for you. And so Don, like again, as. As a non Giants fan, but somebody who like I recognize the importance of the Giants in this market. Right. Like I do feel like this is they're up there with the Yankees when it comes to fan base size and history and all that stuff. And so you pay closer attention to these teams. And I was legitimately thinking to myself as I'm watching this, this shellacking. Number one, Denver clearly did have that issue coming from London going home. They didn't look right, like their defense getting run over, but there was also some magic in this quarterback. Clearly, like something good is happening here and they're making a statement. And then I kept saying if they could have just beaten the Saints, my God, like I thought they were on their way to a win. So you had all these reasons to feel good and unfortunately, like you couldn't finish the day. I'm telling you though, those reasons to feel good are still there, but they come with the caveat of the coach that you didn't really want to be there anyway is now the reason probably why you don't have the, you don't have the 4 and 3 record that you probably should have.

[Don Hahn]

Now. I was alive in 78, so I was only 10. But I definitely knew football. And I remember it. I'll never forget it. The Herman Edwards play. And everybody says I even heard people talking about it earlier today. Oh, well, that, that 78 team was bad. They were six. They were five and six going into that game against Philadelphia. If they win their game, they're 6 and 6 going to Buffalo the next week. And Buffalo was a five win team that year. So I don't know if they would have made the playoffs, but they would have been knocking on the door team that never even finished above.500 and forever. They would have been 6 and 6 at Thanksgiving if they had won that game. And they coughed it up. And I remember I was eating a peach and almost choked on the pit.

[Rosenberg]

Damn.

[Don Hahn]

My father was punching the floor, it was so bad. And they blew it all up. McVay out. Robustelli, General manager out. They, at the end of the season, they blew it all out. And what happened? They hired George Young and the next thing you know, they become what the Giants became. Now I'm. That's what I'm kind of attaching to. I'm just hoping that this colossal embarrassment that'll never be forgotten, that's going to live in Denver forever, guys. And shame on the people that left the building. When you see at the end of how many Giant fans are there because so many Bronco fans left and Giant fans are celebrating because they travel so well. But that's going to live on forever.

[Peter]

I mean, and I can't even be that mad at them. I don't know what the parking situation is there, but if that's A tough parking lot to get out of.

[Rosenberg]

Not terrible.

[Peter]

That's.

[Don Hahn]

That's disgusted with your team. I mean, you're absolutely disgusted with your team. Yeah, you're horrible in London. You're about to get there. They're thinking, oh, we're gonna, that's our get right game against the Giants.

[Peter]

Right. By the way, historically, this has never happened ever. So.

[Don Hahn]

Right. No. So I can't, I can't kill them. But at the same time, they missed it. They're all going to claim they were.

[Peter]

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[Don Hahn]

Interesting.

[Peter]

Go ahead. I know what you want to ask.

[Rosenberg]

Who eats peaches?

[Peter]

Watching football, it's, it's, it's very unique.

[Don Hahn]

At 10:10, there's nothing like a nice peach. It's just.

[Peter]

You don't think of it as, as football food.

[Rosenberg]

All we needed.

[Peter]

No.

[Rosenberg]

Our work is done.

[Don Hahn]

First of all, I. Listen, I don't know, but I need an older person to tell me. Wings weren't a thing in 78. I don't know when they became a.

[Rosenberg]

Thing like the 90s.

[Don Hahn]

What, what was, what was food to eat at a base at a football game in 1970?

[Peter]

Chips still, right?

[Rosenberg]

Were you at a football game?

[Don Hahn]

No, I was, I was in my living room.

[Rosenberg]

Let me grab a peach.

[Don Hahn]

Let me grab a peach.

[Peter]

Yeah, it's, It's.

[Don Hahn]

What's the 70s?

[Rosenberg]

We were, we were eating sugar coated factory manufacturers.

[Peter]

I'm surprised you weren't just Smoking a cigarette.

[Rosenberg]

Like, right. Where was the palm all.

[Peter]

Yeah, this healthy. This man, he's drinking water, eating a peach.

[Don Hahn]

A Picture of Hell Foot 78 smoking a cigarette. Why am I ashamed of eating a peach?

[Rosenberg]

No, there's not. Plum.

[Don Hahn]

You'd be like, really? A plum peach.

[Rosenberg]

No, no. Nobody's shaming you.

[Peter]

First of all, we love a pizza.

[Rosenberg]

It just seems such an odd choice. Like if you said I was eating an apple.

[Peter]

No apple, apple or even banana.

[Rosenberg]

You're not getting a common kid snack. A 10 year old who grabs a peach.

[Peter]

It's like, by the way, it sounds Messy for a 10 year old to eat a peach.

[Rosenberg]

Oh, it's all over the place.

[Peter]

You gotta have mom come by with a paperclip after the wipe.

[Rosenberg]

Oh my God.

[Peter]

You should have seen when he was 11. Eating a mango during.

[Don Hahn]

Almost choked on the peach. Is because what I. What I did, my mom would always get. Thought I was gonna swallow the pit. Is that I. I look like. I look like a 70s baseball player. Like I. I always had it in my cheek.

[Rosenberg]

Oh, yeah.

[Peter]

Oh, I have to tell you guys, by the way, Maya's doing a lot of food right now.

[Rosenberg]

She's.

[Peter]

She's sampling a lot. And Natalie's being very safe. She has a. An app and knows the size of every food. I hate this. There is no joy for me in watching my daughter and just praying she doesn't choke on everything. I. It's very hard to enjoy.

[Rosenberg]

You're not giving her steak? I mean, what is.

[Don Hahn]

What are you.

[Peter]

She's got. She's got some meat, actually, but I'm.

[Rosenberg]

Sure you cut it up.

[Don Hahn]

Really?

[Peter]

Yeah, but it's not even that.

[Don Hahn]

Be careful.

[Peter]

It's just hard. Like a piece of bread, right?

[Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Peter]

And she's supposed to have like a bigger piece of bread and not super soft bread because that could ball up and you could choke on it. Harder bread. Yeah, but like at the end as she starts gnawing and I'm nervous it's gonna break off and then she's gonna swallow it. It's just all very nerve wracking. And also revolting, by the way.

[Don Hahn]

Also cut the grapes. That's very important.

[Peter]

No, no grapes. But also I'm trying to eat dinner at the same time, Don. So I'm sitting there eating my food. I look up at her face and there's just disgusting mushed food from her face to her chest. Just cover it.

[Don Hahn]

It is amazing with. Especially when like pasta, it's just. It's all over. It's amazing.

[Rosenberg]

Eat it or wear it.

[Don Hahn]

It's. It's. It's really adorable.

[Peter]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Peter]

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[Don Hahn]

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[Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg Podcast.

[Peter]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don Hahn]

All right, let's hear from you. 1-800-919-3776. Want to let you know though, celebrate the return of Knicks basketball with us live from Stout, NYC across from Madison Square Garden this Wednesday before the Knicks home opener against the Cavaliers. We'll be broadcasting live starting at three, with special guest appearances by Monica McNutt and Pat O', Keefe brought to you by Sun Cruiser Vodka Ice Tea. Mike Orlando, you're on ESPN New York.

[Caller/Listener]

Hey guys, how you doing?

[Don Hahn]

Good, man.

[Caller/Listener]

So, Don, you are. You're absolutely right. So at least for the first time, I can see a silver lining. And I think Tessa had a great call. Her thumb list was perfect. You just got to add Joe Shane to the list because you can't name a franchise as such a minuscule position of kicker that has gone five, six, seven games over the course of two seasons where they can't even put the roster together properly just to do the little things right. So he's got to go. Gable's got to go.

[Rosenberg]

Coordinators got to go.

[Caller/Listener]

You got a clear house and it has to be very soon. Thank you, guys.

[Don Hahn]

Well, I think this is going to be it. Now listen, there's still time, right? If they turn around and go on a huge run here, then I can reserve judgment and say he deserves to stay. If they rattle off five, six wins in a row and save the season. But if this turns out to be, you know, a year, we're going to look back and go, boy, if they beat Dallas, if they had found a way to not turn the ball over against New Orleans, if they had beaten Denver, they could have been a different season. You got to try to do better, Shane. It's a different story because I have seen some good things. But at the end of the day, guys, if you're not putting together a roster that can win you football games and if you can go without a kicker, if you want that to be a fireable defense, I can completely understand that.

[Rosenberg]

It's all about setting your team up for success and setting up especially if you get the quarterback, which you got that right. That's the feather in your cap. But it's also. Now look, nobody foresaw the neighbor's injury, so you can't hold that against them. The second receiver, though is something that you would think, okay, if we really think this kid's a quarter, you know, he's going to be the quarterback of the future. You have neighbors as a one. Is Wanda Robinson like your true number two? Like, do you feel comfortable with him as your number two? Maybe they wanted to see what it looked like. But I still think that's another area that if you're Joe Shane, you've got to attack. And there is a trade deadline coming up. I don't know if what's going to be available, but there's like little things like that building out your roster, a secondary that isn't good enough. Those are all things that I think. But the kicking thing is inexcusable with Graham Gano because it already happened once before last year. Fool me once, obviously, right? You know, that whole thing, listen, he's.

[Don Hahn]

Good, but if you're not healthy, then what good is it? It's too important to go in and you look at some of the numbers. He wasn't even that great a kick kicker at Rutgers. You tell me there's nobody else.

[Rosenberg]

Clearly.

[Don Hahn]

KU obviously is on the practice squad. Apparently he was, you know, hitting linemen in the back. So he had completely lost it. He had the yips, which I don't understand because we was in Atlanta.

[Rosenberg]

He Was unreal bomb.

[Don Hahn]

Yes, but it's like relief pitchers, right? Sometimes they're good, sometimes they're bad. I just lose him to be good. I just need to be competent. Kick an extra point man, you know, if he's missing 50 yard field goals, okay, I get it. But just a simple extra points and they win that game, it's over. And that's on the general manager. Because again, it can't just be about all the nuances, right? At the end of the day, do I have a team that's capable of going out there and winning? Do I have the coaches in place? Do I have the players in place?

[Rosenberg]

Answer your question. Do they have a team that's capable of winning a game?

[Don Hahn]

Yes.

[Peter]

The answer is clearly yes.

[Rosenberg]

Like, I think they've made it abundantly clear there's enough talent on this team to win or be competitive every week. Isn't that the first goal when you're coming from a bad team? When you started out as a bad team, your first goal is to be competitive enough to win games on a weekly basis. They have achieved that. In fact, they might have even overachieved that. They might have surpassed that to where they look like a team that could win every week, not compete to win, could win every week. And by the way, they could have won every game since that kid took over a quarterback. The difference is clear. He's averaging the offense or the team is averaging. I know they got a couple of defensive scores, but 25 points a game since he took over. 25 points a game. You know what they were averaging with Russell Wilson? 17.

[Peter]

And it didn't even feel like that.

[Rosenberg]

Yeah, but so it's clearly you are on your way now to a functioning team that could win every week. All you want as a fan is to know that your team week after week has a chance to win. And they did. In fact, they not only had a chance to win, they had a chance to blow out this team on the road. And like, the problem with this team is can be. You know what? I love the phrase that Davel used when he talked about why the kicking game had struggle. You know what he said? Sloppy operation. And I had to laugh and I wrote it down because, boy, that's a great way to describe the entire organization, is it not?

[Don Hahn]

See, this is not basketball or even hockey or baseball where the players can go out there and just because they're better than the other team, win more times than not.

[Rosenberg]

Yes.

[Don Hahn]

But in football you need to coach them up. So you said, do they have Enough players there to win games? Yes. Do they have the coaching staff to win games? Guys? Too many times. The answer is no.

[Rosenberg]

It doesn't feel like the coordinator on the defensive coordinator is really strong enough with some of his decision making. And Dable definitely has got his hands in on the offense and the offense has been good, but it's what Davel's supposed to be as a. As the CEO. That's what concerns me, the leader of men.

[Don Hahn]

I tell this tale, you know, all the time. When we used to do the show over at Tony Saragus's place and I'd sit down at Tiffany's, it was over on Route 46 in New Jersey before Peter got there. Every Monday we do the show there and I talk to him and I'd say to him that that 2000 team, Brian Billock, man, he was averaging 500 yards a game with Minnesota as the offensive coordinator. He goes to Baltimore and wins a Super bowl with no quarterback and the defense, how did that happen? He goes, because it doesn't matter what you're good at as a head coach. Doesn't matter. That's what you have coordinators for. You got to handle the media. You got a game plan. You got to motivate the players. You've got to be a CEO. You've got to control everything. So whatever your ballywick is, is great. And you might be able to put your fingertips or fingerprints on certain aspects of the offense or defense, whatever your strength is. But at the end of the day, a head coach has too much else to do. When you're the offensive coordinator, you don't have to worry about deciding to go for it on fourth down. Just make sure you got a play when the coach says it's time to do it, you know, but the coach has to decide, do I go for it? Do I kick that? Stabilize things. When you see panic on the sidelines, be the calming influence. All these things have nothing to do with the X's and O's, but then has everything to do with it at the same time. Like, so you've got to find out how many. The laundry list of great coordinators that never were anything as head coaches because it's a completely different skill set.

[Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don Hahn]

Yeah.

[Rosenberg]

And that's. I guess you're going to keep searching for it, but when you have the quarterback like this.

[Don Hahn]

Yes.

[Rosenberg]

You have a defense like this, you have a vibe like that and you have a brand like that, people are going to line up for this job.

[Don Hahn]

So now go find the coach to accentuate the talent that they already have. And maybe this could be the turning point for this franchise. 1-800-919-3776 Wacky week again. I got my three point play. I feel good. But we still can't pick our nose, man. I don't know what's going on with us with football.

[Peter]

Well.

[Don Hahn]

But another wacky. Okay, I got two out of three.

[Rosenberg]

Yeah, I just. My three point play was the, the killer.

[Don Hahn]

Right? And I got my three point play.

[Rosenberg]

I kept you alive.

[Don Hahn]

Balances out my, my, my two losses because boy, the new wing. That was a layup. Peter, I don't know what you were thinking. Yeah, you should have jumped on that. That was.

[Peter]

And boy, did Alan nail the the indie game that you and I got completely wrong. I guess the Chargers are awash.

[Don Hahn]

Maybe the Giants didn't beat a good team that day.

[Peter]

Yeah, you know what? Funny, the Giants and the Commanders beat that team. Maybe they're not that great.

[Rosenberg]

Any dimes though. Oh, what did he find?

[Don Hahn]

Salt wound.

[Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast.

[Peter]

I don't want to know how the.

[Rosenberg]

Sausage is made, but I just want to know. It's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter. Weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.

[Don Hahn]

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[Rosenberg]

The electricity is palpable.

[Don Hahn]

Step up your game with no annual contract required. It's the ultimate fan experience. Level up. For more on the ESPN app or at stream ESPN com sign up now.