Hour 1: Giants Big Day

Summary

Don, Hahn & Rosenberg Podcast Summary
Episode: Hour 1: Giants Big Day
Release Date: April 25, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Don, Hahn & Rosenberg, the hosts—Don La Greca, Alan Hahn, and Peter Rosenberg—delve into the recent developments surrounding the New York Giants' draft day, alongside updates from the Knicks and Jets. The discussion is lively, filled with insights, debates, and listener interactions, providing a comprehensive analysis for fans eager to understand the implications of the Giants' recent moves.

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Giants' Successful Draft Moves

Don La Greca opens the conversation by highlighting the positive sentiment among fans of the Knicks, Giants, and Jets due to their recent performances and draft decisions. He remarks, "If you are a fan of the Knicks, the Giants and the Jets, you had a pretty, pretty, pretty good day yesterday" (00:49). However, he brings attention to the inherent uncertainties of draft picks, emphasizing the need to evaluate their long-term impact.

Alan Hahn commends the Giants' management decisions, stating, "I thought the Giants had a fantastic night. I'm going to end up tearing it down and fighting with you, I'm sure" (02:09). Despite anticipating disagreements, he acknowledges the strategic moves made by the Giants, particularly the selection of Jackson Dart as their quarterback.

Don La Greca further supports the Giants' picks, arguing that the organization made calculated decisions to secure a quarterback without sacrificing their position in the first round. He points out, "They traded up into back into the first round... they got a quarterback they think they can work with" (03:37). This move, according to him, reduces the immediate pressure to play the new quarterback and provides flexibility with their existing roster.

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Quarterback Situation: Jackson Dart vs. Shador Sanders

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the Giants' choice of Jackson Dart over other quarterback prospects like Shador Sanders. Peter Rosenberg expresses skepticism about the Giants' decision-making process, questioning the compatibility between the general manager and the head coach. He muses, "I think you cannot overreact yet... keep the pressure on" (05:07), suggesting that continuous performance evaluation is crucial for the Giants' management.

Alan Hahn and Don La Greca engage in a detailed analysis of the quarterback room, debating the merits of having multiple quarterbacks and the potential impact on team dynamics. La Greca argues for patience in developing Jackson Dart, stating, "I'm gonna make sure I have that stability within your organization" (06:46). He emphasizes the importance of assessing Dart's progress through practice and preseason performance before making any hasty decisions.

Peter Rosenberg adds to the debate by drawing parallels between Dart's situation and other NFL quarterbacks who were given time to develop, highlighting the Giants' strategic approach. He notes, "But don't you think their teams start to get off of one and get onto another" (33:27), indicating the fluctuating nature of quarterback evaluations in the NFL.

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Listener Interactions and Opinions

The episode features engaging interactions with listeners, notably Matt and Jake, who provide their perspectives on the Giants' draft choices. Matt expresses confidence in the Giants' selection of Jackson Dart, comparing his decision to basketball choices where reliability and potential outweigh immediate popularity. He states, "if you want to make that comparison to basketball, it would almost be like back in the day when Marbury, Sebastian, Telfair, Rod Strickland... you know what you're getting" (28:08).

Conversely, Jake criticizes the Jets' draft strategy, pointing out perceived flaws in their selections. He comments, "The Jets had a stud tight end, a stud wide receiver staring in them in the face, and they pick a right tackle as a number three pick" (35:18). This highlights the varied opinions among fans regarding team strategies and draft outcomes.

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Strategic Analysis and Future Implications

The hosts delve deeper into the strategic implications of the Giants' draft choices. Don La Greca defends the decision to draft Jackson Dart, asserting that the Giants' management saw potential in his ability to evolve within the team's system. He mentions, "Dable didn't look like a guy that felt like any lack of confidence that this is a quarterback he thinks he can finally get a chance to work with that'll listen to him" (15:19), suggesting that Dart's work ethic and adaptability were key factors in his selection.

Alan Hahn compares the Giants' approach to that of other successful teams, emphasizing the importance of having a solid game plan. He remarks, "What guard is going to be doing that" (18:05), referencing the necessity of aligning quarterback development with the team's overall strategy to ensure long-term success.

The discussion also touches on the broader NFL landscape, with comparisons to other quarterbacks and their developmental paths. Peter Rosenberg questions the competitiveness of opponents faced by Dart, asking, "Are his numbers skewed because he's not really playing against anybody good?" (48:12), highlighting the need to consider external factors when evaluating player performance.

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Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up

As the episode concludes, the hosts reflect on the day's events and the potential future of the Giants. Don La Greca emphasizes optimism while acknowledging the uncertainties ahead, stating, "Nobody wins the draft until you find out how these guys play" (37:23). The trio reiterates their support for the Giants' strategic moves while remaining vigilant about the outcomes of the draft and subsequent performances.

Alan Hahn and Peter Rosenberg wrap up the discussion by reiterating the importance of staying informed and engaged with the team's progress, ensuring that fans remain hopeful yet realistic about the Giants' prospects for the season.

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Notable Quotes

• Peter Rosenberg: "If you are a fan of the Knicks, the Giants and the Jets, you had a pretty, pretty, pretty good day yesterday" (00:49).
• Alan Hahn: "I thought the Giants had a fantastic night. I'm going to end up tearing it down and fighting with you, I'm sure" (02:09).
• Don La Greca: "They traded up into back into the first round... they got a quarterback they think they can work with" (03:37).
• Peter Rosenberg: "I think you cannot overreact yet... keep the pressure on" (05:07).
• Don La Greca: "Nobody wins the draft until you find out how these guys play" (37:23).

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Conclusion

This episode of Don, Hahn & Rosenberg offers a thorough examination of the New York Giants' recent draft decisions, particularly focusing on the selection of quarterback Jackson Dart. Through a blend of expert analysis, lively debate, and listener interactions, the hosts provide valuable insights into the strategic considerations that shape NFL team-building. Whether you're a die-hard Giants fan or just interested in the dynamics of NFL drafts, this episode delivers a nuanced exploration of the challenges and triumphs faced by one of the league's most storied franchises.

Transcript

[Don La Greca]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

It's lame. It needs Viagra and Rosenberg.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm gonna lift my shirt up, take my pants down and shake it all around.

[Don La Greca]

This isn't North Dakota, this is New York.

[Peter Rosenberg]

This is Don Hahn and Rosenberg on 880 ESPN and the ESPN New York app.

[Don La Greca]

Oh, it's 300 one of the big city on Friday and it's a gorgeous Friday here. And it's a feel good Friday. Not just because it's. It sounds good to say it that way, but if you are a fan of the Knicks, the Giants and the jets, you had a pretty, pretty, pretty good day yesterday. But we also share in common that. Yeah, but with all of this, because with the draft picks you never know, right? You could be happy with the picks, but we'll have to see it play out. And with the Knicks, big win, but there's a lot of things to kind of dissect. But at the end of the day, they're up two games to one. How are you boys?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I'm good. I got in, let's see, I had about three hours sleep. I got in before nine and I couldn't wait to get on the airwaves today.

[Alan Hahn]

Committed. The man's committed. Good job. You hear that?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I was fired up for this though because first of all, we had a blast yesterday on the show. I'm sorry, no soundtrack behind me today though, fellas. Very quiet behind me.

[Alan Hahn]

You know what I want to hear Big Al, what's going on? How can I just listen to you?

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know what though? Here, listen, listen. This is the Pistons crowd.

[Alan Hahn]

Beautiful.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You know.

[Don La Greca]

And they did. They walked right out of the building.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What the hell? Like we fraud alert Fridays today, boys. And I, I'm gonna call out some fraud.

[Don La Greca]

I'm gonna do it.

[Alan Hahn]

I just want to say out of the gate before we get to anything, I, I'm gonna have some moments, I know where I argue with you both related to football excitement. But before we even say a word, particularly with regard to the Giants, I do want to give credit where credit is due. I thought the Giants had a fantastic night. I'm going to end up tearing it down and fighting with you, I'm sure. But I just want to be honest and objective. I did like the moves that they made, so I just want to be clear about that and get that out of the way before we end up digging in and everyone thinks I'm being a bad guy.

[Don La Greca]

Well, I don't know why you would even give the chance to be a bad guy. Clearly. Listen, Carter might be a bust and Dart may be a bust, but we talked about it yesterday at length about. You'd have to feel really good if you were a Giants fan if you walked away with Carter and a quarterback.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

And they did. And they didn't give up really, when you think about it that much, to get back into the first round because they would have probably taken a quarterback with their first pick in the second round anyway. And you know, it's a couple of third round picks. Yeah, sometimes it hurts, but if you saw how excited that room was and obviously Dable and Shane really love Dart and they got a quarterback they think they can work with and they get him late in the first round. So it takes a lot of pressure off having to play him him right away and it's, it's, it's workable with the two quarterbacks they already have for 20, 25. And I'll go as far as to say, guys, I think Joe Shane saved his job yesterday.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think Joe Shane's son saved his father's job.

[Don La Greca]

He might have.

[Peter Rosenberg]

There's no doubt that kid was like all about dart.

[Don La Greca]

Well, but that doesn't mean that Shane wasn't all about Dart too.

[Peter Rosenberg]

No, I know, but just like he.

[Don La Greca]

Was probably all about Daniels last year. Probably all about every. Everybody but the quarterbacks they could have taken with the selection they had last year. But both Shane and Dable are going to be entering the final years of their contract. And so the question is why weren't they extended? They're obviously going to have to really hustle for their work this year to be able to maintain their jobs. When you look at the draft that Shane had last year, when you look at what he's done free agent wise during this offseason and then you look at what he was able to accomplish in the first round. If I'm John Mara, I feel like this is a guy that deserves a contract extension. Now when you decide to do that at the end of the draft during the season, wait to see what the season looks like. But when you look at what people are saying about this Giants team now, especially this defense, that there's talent there now, so Dave will go out and win. So I don't think they're attached to the hip guys. Couldn't there be a world where John Maris says, I've got my gm, let's see if I have my coach instead of let's see if I have both. Because if they don't win this year, if they embarrass themselves this year with the draft, in the free agent class that we saw Shane bring in, isn't it more of a Dable problem than a Shane and Dable problem?

[Peter Rosenberg]

I think you cannot overreact yet. If you're John Mara. I want to keep the heat on a little bit.

[Don La Greca]

Ok, Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Like I get what you're saying because the whole idea of stability, like, I get that, like you want to have stability. And he did, he did mention that. That's one of the things he talked about, why he didn't make the rash decision of blowing the whole thing up. Because he saw a documentary and it got him wishful and nostalgic and he thought, let me be like my dad.

[Don La Greca]

Right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

And so he did. But I think now what you got to do is just make sure like, like we, we have seen this before where you celebrate too soon, where all of a sudden say, oh, it's all good now. No, keep the pressure on, keep them working for their food. And that includes Joe Shane because you know, it's not done. You got to go through training crib, you got to figure out cuts, you got to move, move around. You got to see who becomes available. That always happens, as you know, especially in August. You start finding different players. Your roster can look different from the start of training camp to week one. We all know this. And it's never the main guys, but it's all the peripheral pieces that suddenly you find. And so to me, this is something you could address during the bi week during the season if you like what you see. If the culture and everything else, the roster looks like it had the right way, then maybe that discussion comes up. That's when you get, you know, the, you know, one of the, one of the Post columnists or one of the Daily News columnists decide, you know, when is Shane going to get his contract? That's when you do it right, you get tangible progress that you can then say, I like the direction we're going in. The draft was really, was a launching pad for us. This group deserves more time.

[Don La Greca]

And just to be Straight. They're signed through 26. But. But the reason why I think it's so important to kind of get your ducks in a row before the end of the 25 season is lame duck. Yeah, you don't want the lame duck situation in 26. So you would like to see that there's the confidence in making sure that you have that stability within your organization. And I think a general manager probably more important than a head coach in the sense of that transitional part. Right. Where you can see it's transient. Head coaches in the NFL, right. You do see them kind of go through. But you know, when you start going through general managers in the same clip. But there is this fallacy, I believe that people think they're attached at the hip because they were both signed at the same time and both came from Buffalo. But I do think there's a world where Shane can keep his job and Dable can lose it. And if you believe that there's been a talent that has been accumulated here, then I would think it's undable to use that talent to go out and win.

[Alan Hahn]

Right.

[Don La Greca]

Or at least not embarrass yourself because I think the other fallacy is, oh, you got to win eight games or you got to be a lot. This schedule is not going to dictate a lot of wins. But just don't embarrass yourself like you have the last couple of years.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. It's just an interesting scenario here of separating it out because there's a possibility that both guys could be good and you won't be clear on that at the end of this year. This is why the overall situation of, you know, frankly, being a bad football team is so challenging. Because let's suppose they. They got the quarterback right last night and Jackson Dart is the future. Guys, there's a chance that this guy they really see as a project who's going to learn this year, and they plan on having Jameis Winston as the backup quarterback and they. They don't see him getting a lot of reps even in pract. Like, there is a world in which this guy is really wearing headphones and learning all year long. So at the end of the year, that could still translate to not a very good performance on the field. And you didn't get a look at the quarterback. So it's still hard to read when maybe Don. The next year it would take. It's a tough spot.

[Don La Greca]

See what's so interesting about what you said, because we were in our meeting, John Winthrop, our pinhead suit, said the Same thing. But don't you think NFL organizations look beyond the actual gameplay on whether a player is progressing or not? Like, we won't see it. The media won't see it. Fans won't see it. But is there a world where he never dresses because Winston's the backup all year? They don't dress three quarterbacks, but they just know that in the work that they've seen that he is progressing on a pace that they, like, he had a good camp. He played well in the preseason.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm sorry, Alan, don't you agree with me? Not with quarterbacks. Like, it's. It's. How many times have we seen them get so much tape on a quarterback and then it turns out they're not the one? Like, I feel like you cannot read a lot based on what a quarterback is showing you in the. In the facility, essentially. Like, I just think that's such an un. That's still such an unknown for everybody. You got to see Allen what he does against NFL speed. You have to.

[Don La Greca]

No, I get it. But you also have seen, like, why isn't that guy dressing? Well, the reason he's not dressing is because he's not showing you anything in practice. He's not showing you a reason that he should dress. He's not showing you a reason that he. That we should bench Winston and make him the backup quarterback. Like, so. I would think their educated eyes could see progression now, whether they decide to think that's enough progression or not. You're right, Peter. In order to satisfy us, we've got to see him play, throw touchdowns, do things in an NFL game to be able to say, hey, look at what Dable's been able to do with him. But don't you think inside the room when John Mara is evaluating the progress.

[Alan Hahn]

No, no, I honestly, my personal feeling is, is that owners are a lot closer to fans than general managers.

[Don La Greca]

Well, I'm not, too.

[Alan Hahn]

And they don't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They need to see it for the most part.

[Alan Hahn]

I think it's really hard for John Mayer at the end of the year to go, oh, wait, you guys are saying, I know he hasn't played it all yet, but you're telling me he's going to be good next year. I don't know that it can work that way.

[Don La Greca]

But there's also ways which, you know, he's showing up late for practice. He's not remembering.

[Alan Hahn]

They could show you they're not the one. A lot easier than they are the.

[Don La Greca]

One that goes into it, too. I mean, listen, it's very. I'm not saying it's easy, Peter, but there is. I think there is a scenario where the Giants are not a playoff team. I don't expect them to be a playoff team, not with that schedule. But it looks good. They win a few more games than you expect, and Dart does not get a chance to play. And that could be a world where. Not that he didn't deserve to play, just that there was no scenario in which to play him until maybe he got to week 16, 17. You're mathematically eliminated and you say, all right, we're going to dress him as the backup quarterback, and then Wilson gets hurt and he gets thrown out there and plays a couple of quarters. But don't you think there's a world where they're not a playoff team? But the scenario never presented itself for him to play, but yet he still was progressing in the right direction.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I want to go back to what you said before, though, Don. When it comes to Joe Shane, his job is obviously the draft and building the roster. Right?

[Don La Greca]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And so you judge him on talent, then you judge Dable on what he does with the talent. Can he make it win? And that's how the two of them point fingers if it ever comes to that. Because it's like, well, he thinks it's good, but that wasn't good, or that doesn't fit the way I want to play or whatever it is. But all indications are, number one, they're on the same page. Number two, as we saw when they announced the pick, when they traded up into back into the first round and they took Jackson Dart, did Dable look like a guy that couldn't wait for that name to be announced? He looked like a guy. He looked like. Literally, you know, some of the fans were saying the draft is like Christmas Day. He looked like it was Christmas morning. He couldn't wait for somebody to say, open your gifts. He was fired. You could see the anticipation he had. I think for Dable, that's what it's going to be about. And I want to see, is he going to take his time with this kid? Because he's got to know him. They put a ton of work into all these quarterbacks. Is he going to be the type of guy that knows I am not putting him on the field until he's ready? Because I know that if he doesn't look ready, that's on me and I won't look. That looks like I didn't get him ready. So I think he's. I would think less about rushing him, if that were me, I would make sure I would take my time. I would slow play this and give him, Give him moments where, like, he let him look good, but I would slow play it until I felt like I could get him through a game with the right game plan. So when that game's over, people are at least going, it's pretty impressive.

[Don La Greca]

I just, I didn't see. I didn't see a court. I didn't see a head coach last night celebrating, yes, I got the quarterback that's going to save my job. I saw him like, yes, I got a quarterback I think I can really work with.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

And that tells me that he didn't think he had that in Daniel Jones.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, no doubt he didn't think he.

[Don La Greca]

Had that in JJ McCarthy or Penix or any of the quarterbacks that were available last year.

[Peter Rosenberg]

As Shane was saying that too, by the way, he was, like giving us little Easter eggs. And the things he was saying about taking a player that we, we want, we know we want, like he was giving us those Easter eggs about last year. Remember, they. They have never drafted a quarterback and this is the first time.

[Don La Greca]

Right. And so he didn't think he can work with them because again, I do think that if he ends up being the right guy, there will be moments during the course of the season where he'll be elevated to the backup quarterback and probably get a chance to play. And it may happen. Listen, if he has a great preseason, the fans are going to probably be begging for him to play, of course, but I don't think they should pay attention to that. But I think there, there's a world where he may not necessarily get a lot of reps and they'll still feel like he progressed. But Dable didn't look like a guy that felt like any lack of confidence that this is a quarterback he thinks he can finally get a chance to work with that'll listen to him. The reason he exploded on the sidelines of Daniel Jones was because Daniel Jones was frustrating. It's like, dude, I'm giving you pearls here and you're not executing it on the field. And that frustration because he. Is that a quarter supposed to be a quarterback whisperer, but you can't. You can't blink blank out of shinola, you know, I mean, like so. And that's. And now we'll see. But if we find out bad camp, not. Not dressing, you know, not. Not really doing anything in practice, then that'll look bad on Dable and that'll.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Look bad Accuracy Issues, you know, that's going to be the thing because we know physically and athletically all those things, those are his measurables, right? Like that's what he's supposed to be about. And I don't want to hear about his physique and all that crap because Patrick Mahomes has a dad bot. So don't tell me about what he looks like.

[Don La Greca]

Tom Brady.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Get that out of your system because that's, that's amateur talk. This is not about what he looks like because the kid from the Colts, Richardson, he's an Adonis. Is he any good? So don't, don't, don't worry about what he looks like physically. It's what he's doing on the field. And I also like, let's just look at the past history. Caleb Williams was number one pick. He had to play right away. Jaden Davis, number two pick, he earned his way to play right away. Drake May was their desperate pick. They had to, he didn't start right away but they got him in there as fast as they could. In New England, Pennix was interesting. Remember Atlanta had Kirk Cousins, but Pennix, you knew once they drafted Pennix, Kirk Cousins knew his days were numbered in Atlanta and he had just signed there. And Penix played his way to a point where they were like, we just got to get this kid in. But they, they, they used Cousin to buy time to get Penix who by the way like came into the league at like 45 years old. But he, he was, they, they just used the start of the season in practices and prepping for games and being, you know, holding the clipboard. That was to just get him ready to a point where then they could, they could put him out on the field and they, they couldn't wait. McCarthy was supposed to like the thing about JJ in Minnesota, people forget this guy was the 10th pick. He was the fourth quarterback taken or fifth I should say. And they didn't know if he was going to start. But after an impressive training camp and preseason he was supposed to be QB1 until he had the injury. Bo Nick's another one in Denver. Yeah, they couldn't wait to get him on the field. So like it's not unprecedented to draft a player in the first round quarterback in the first round and use the first quarter of the season as sort of just get you into the rhythm of it until it's then that we know that it's time we can play you. And that probably should be the strategy, which is why you have a Russell Wilson, because Russell Wilson, with all his flaws now at this point of his career, is still a guy, you know, you can plug and play and you'll be competitive because he just has experience and talent. Two things that are just, you know, intangible. And so I think that's really going to be the game plan here. I think for the first time in a long time, Don, the Giants look like they actually have a game plan that might work instead of forcing themselves into some of the things they've done in the past, which included Daniel Jones. You know, what relationship was never there.

[Alan Hahn]

And you know what I'm going to throw in? I'm going to reverse course on. On something that I've said earlier in the week about, you know, the sort of, if you were going to go get a quarterback, why'd you fill the quarterback room? And, you know, I know there are some people arguing that with the full quarterback room, you know, he won't get a lot of reps. The beauty is, though, guys, at this stage of Russell Wilson's career, there's a chance, I mean, even with all the good things Allen just said, I think you'd still agree there's a chance that after six games, people go, all right, we've seen what we need to see from Russell Wilson. The fact that you have Jameis Winston back there means you don't have to go to Jackson Dart too early.

[Don La Greca]

Right.

[Alan Hahn]

And you can just go right to Jameis Winston and then the kid could maybe move up to quarterback two by the end of the year and, you know, put the pressure on him where he joins a bad team mid season when he's not ready.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, he's going to be. Yeah, he's going to be Jackson Clipboard. That's what he's going to be. But I'll tell you what, if you look at Jameis Winston's contract, it's very tradable. And midway through the year, before the deadline, there's always that one team that's got quarterback issues and you can simply move him on.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah. Or you can move on from. From either of the two or injury, just to make sure that there's still a veteran in the room. No matter where you go. Let's hear about or hear from the people that we've been talking about.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's go.

[Don La Greca]

Joe Shane last night on Landing Dart, really excited about adding fired up to to get him. We went through an extensive quarterback process. This started as far back as last May in terms of evaluating the quarterbacks, and Dave's and I have been through this quite a few times and at the end of the day we're fired up to have Jackson Dart part of the organization and look forward to working with him. And Brian Dabel said Dart has what we're looking for. There's a process too when he gets.

[Alan Hahn]

Here of developing this player.

[Don La Greca]

I don't expect him to know everything right off the bat. It's a hard position to play, a.

[Alan Hahn]

Hard position to coach, but he has.

[Don La Greca]

The traits that we look for and covet in a guy to be able to learn and grow. And Brian addressed when he's going to play. Said Dart may be sitting for a little while. Russ will be our starter and that's how it'll be once we get started here in the spring. And look, the process of developing a.

[Alan Hahn]

Quarterback is just that.

[Don La Greca]

So we're going to do everything we can to develop him and bring him along and we have some good quarterbacks in the room relative to playtime experience, medals on the wall if you will, that have done a great job here these first four days. It's really early phase one, but the.

[Alan Hahn]

Two of those guys that we've added.

[Don La Greca]

Have added a lot of value already to the room in terms of leadership and communication. And it's been four days so it's a long way to go with both of those guys. But again, I want to make this about Jackson, his night young player, think he's got a good skill set and look forward to developing it with him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I like Daniel Jones, I really did from the times I've gotten and I'm.

[Alan Hahn]

Sure he loved that audio by the way, to know that they were looking at quarterbacks last.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Maybe about that.

[Don La Greca]

Right.

[Peter Rosenberg]

But, but, but not only, not only that, like it does feel like there's some shade being thrown about the lack of leadership, the lack of a voice. Like because we know Daniel Jones was a quiet guy. He wasn't a big voice kind of guy. He wasn't a, a command the offense kind of guy. He, he at his best. He had moments but you know, he just didn't have that presence. You could tell D wants that and that's why he's kind of happy to have a, an overcon uber confident Russell Wilson who has a resume, whether you whatever you want to say about him and Jameis who probably never shuts up and is a big voice guy that players are drawn to because he does have that magnetic personality. So this is clearly what he's looking for. And darts kind of. You know, I would love to know if there was a follow up to when he said he's got all the things we like and what we were looking for. Okay, what are those things? I want him to list them for me. Like they tell me, Dave, so tell me about him. What do you love about this kid that you couldn't pass on him like you passed on quarterbacks in the last two drafts? I'd love to hear that explanation.

[Alan Hahn]

I will say this, Don. I just, you know me, you know all the intense draft research that I do, and that includes just right now watching a full highlight video of Jackson Dart. To me, and I know Allen was we'll get more into Shador later. And to me jumps off the page way more than Shador Sanders does.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I mean, different quarterbacks.

[Alan Hahn]

But I'm just saying when you watch him, you can immediately see how the NFL game would look on him. I struggle with that, with Shador. I just didn't quite see it when I watched him. He does jump off the page. I get it.

[Don La Greca]

We have to get into that because he is still on the board. When the second round begins at 6:00 today, we'll dive into that. What the jets did wasn't sexy, but it was necessary. So just get your thoughts on what the Giants and the jets did. I thought it was a big day for the Giants. We'll see what it is for the Jets. But I think both feel really good about their first rounds. How do you feel? 1-800-9193776 also how Nick fans feel about what was a win and crazy if they had lost that game. Oh, it would definitely have a nickname. It certainly would. And over the last couple of games you start to wonder, would it be a gate?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Would it be like, oh, it would be a game.

[Alan Hahn]

No, no, it would be a game. It would be a game.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What would you.

[Alan Hahn]

What. What gate? It would be the something game.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, the clock game.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, you'd call it the A game. Yeah, like deflate gate. There's always that. That gate. Like I thought it'd be a gate kind of game.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, but it would be game.

[Don La Greca]

It'd be something. But there's still a lot to dive into. But the Knicks do win by two eventually. That game took a while to get over the last few seconds for sure. Well, when you keep putting time on the clock, anything can happen. And they are up two games to one. So we got all that to dive into to. It's Don Hahn and Rosenberg hanging out with you until 6:00. And then our coverage of the Mets and the Nationals. You want to get the most for your money, right? Well, that's why more Mazda buyers choose Ramsey Mazda lease a new 2025 Mazda CX5 all wheel drive just 229amonth or buying at 0.9% APR financing for 36 months. Start shopping now at Ramsey Mazda.com or at Ramsey Mazda Route 17 north in Ramsey. Choose wisely. Choose Ramsey Mazda. Call 833-853-2970 for details. Excludes tax title registration 0 Security Deposit VIN S0555872 MSRP30585 ENDS 43025 does it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

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[Don La Greca]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Alan Hahn]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don La Greca]

Don Rosenberg hang with you until six and then an early game for Mets Nationals. Mets have a chance to go on a bit of a toot here. They won seven in a row and then having a four game wraparound series. That's right Peter. Another one of those baseball terms. Wraparound series that'll end on Monday.

[Alan Hahn]

Wrap around the weekend is what they afternoon.

[Peter Rosenberg]

I love that term.

[Alan Hahn]

That one's not Bad. It makes sense.

[Don La Greca]

Well, I like it when it's a goal in hockey. Because you're describing something.

[Alan Hahn]

Well, they're describing the weekend. You're wrapping around the weekend.

[Don La Greca]

I guess.

[Alan Hahn]

I mean, it's still stupid. Don, I'll argue with one thing you said, though. They said, you said, could go on a toot. I'm not a fan of the phrase toot at all.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You don't think it toot?

[Alan Hahn]

No, but if we are using it, they're already on one.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They're on a toot?

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. They're in the middle of it right now.

[Don La Greca]

I think I told the story. Every time I. Every time I hear the word toot, and I don't care for it either. I just. That's what popped into my head is I think of the now late Mike language. I was like, when he's.

[Alan Hahn]

Oh, yeah, I remember the story.

[Don La Greca]

I've told you that story, Alan. Right. I was like, listen, I'm gonna go get something to eat. Mike, you want me to bring you up some? He's like, no, they got tacos tonight. Give me the toots. It kind of stuck with me when the legend says it, you know, you don't, you know.

[Alan Hahn]

And by the way, perfectly speaks to why I don't like it to refer to a witch.

[Don La Greca]

That's exactly why. It's so weird that it describes two completely opposite things.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, well, just. Just say they're, you know, like that. The kids use it now they say, you know, like, they're a wagon. Right. Like that's the whole thing now.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't even know that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, yeah.

[Don La Greca]

Give me the toots. I don't want to give Mike Lang the toots.

[Alan Hahn]

Wait, wait. What? How do you say it, Alan? Now I'm washed.

[Peter Rosenberg]

The Mets are a wagon.

[Alan Hahn]

They're a wagon.

[Peter Rosenberg]

They're a wagon.

[Alan Hahn]

W, a G, O, N. Yeah, like a wagon.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

Well, you can understand what that means, right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, they gotta control it. Just.

[Don La Greca]

Just hop it on the bandwagon and it's moving, man.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah.

[Alan Hahn]

Again, I think we still can do better. I'm gonna keep working on this.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Work on it.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah, I gotta have a project.

[Peter Rosenberg]

We got calls to work on. That's what I think, because it's. Finally Giants fans have something to react to. And that might have been. They haven't had many good nights, but last night was a good one.

[Don La Greca]

Well, let's do it, David. And Elizabeth gets us started here on Don Han and Rosenberg. What's up, man?

[Alan Hahn]

What up, Don?

[Don La Greca]

What up, Hollywood Hans? What up, Peter?

[D]

How Are you guys.

[Alan Hahn]

Hey, man.

[Peter Rosenberg]

David sounds like he's on a 45 record from the 70s.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah.

[Don La Greca]

What's going on?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Clean the needle.

[D]

Oh.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Oh, yeah.

[D]

Oh, yeah. All right, fellas, let's get straight into it.

[Alan Hahn]

The one thing I want to say is this.

[D]

I think that the Giants kind of reach taking dart. I think that I've been on board with Hollywood Han the whole time. I think that Shador is really the pick they should have had. They didn't do it.

[Don La Greca]

That's on them.

[D]

I think that's going to bite the.

[Don La Greca]

Giants in the butt down the line.

[D]

But not for nothing, I'm really happy at all.

[Don La Greca]

What.

[D]

What did.

[Alan Hahn]

Picking Armbar Mimble and hopefully tonight we.

[D]

Make some good selections and Hollywood Han.

[Alan Hahn]

What about my man bodega talents, baby?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, I told you to him yesterday.

[Don La Greca]

Yeah, he took to that.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yeah, we will. Look, can I. Let me just say something about The Shador Sanders vs Jackson dart thing because. And again, I've, I've been unabashedly supportive of Sanders and I think he's going to have a good pro career. We'll see where he gets drafted. I seriously doubt it won't be long. He'll. He'll get picked here tonight.

[Alan Hahn]

Today.

[Peter Rosenberg]

6:00 is, I believe, when the coverage starts on 10:50am here, right?

[Don La Greca]

Yeah.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Here's what. And the. Again being fair and if you know what you know, like I know and I've paid attention. They put a lot of work into him. So it's not like they completely dismissed the idea of bringing in Shador Sanders or drafting him. That was not something that they were. Oh, he. They overlooked him. They put their work in. They did. But when you think about your quarter, your coach and the quarterback and who fits, that's not the kind of quarterback he's looking for. That's not the way he plays. He needs to have a quarterback that's got legs, mobility and all the things that go beyond the typical stuff. Sanders is a lot more as I know he's got a. It's. It's odd to say he's a very vanilla quarterback. Is that weird, right, Peter? Because he has such a big personality.

[Alan Hahn]

Right?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right. Like he, he comes from a big personality family. There's a lot of attention. You would think if there's anybody that's Hollywood, it's him. But his game is so not like everything else that comes with him. He is really a very basic, vanilla, solid. Like he's, he's. He's like having insurance. Well, it's like it's like, it's, it's nice to have, but nobody's celebrating it. You know, it's like getting a new roof on your house. It costs you a lot of money and it does a good job protecting. But it's not like you go out to your neighbors, go, you see this roof? Look at this roof I just got. It's just, it's just stable, necessary, but it's not going to blow you away.

[Don La Greca]

The thing is, is that it really doesn't matter what we think. Mel Kuiper, who we respect more than anybody when it comes to evaluating talent, it's what he does for a living. Had Sanders as the guy, it was flabbergasted every time a team that needed a quarterback passed on him. Like, how do these teams pass on Shador Sanders? He's convinced that he's going to be a star, all right, And David's convinced and you're convinced. But the guys that jobs are on the line weren't, you know, so that's why I kind of respect the position of general manager and head coach in the NFL. As much as we may disagree, it's their jobs on the line. It's their ass conviction, you know, and they decided that Dart's the guy. So anybody that wants to bring up, oh, they just couldn't handle the Sanders situation, think about how ignorant that would be. That if this is the quarterback that can save your job. But you don't want to have to deal with Deon or you don't like this or like that. No, it's all just about they. He didn't think he can work with them and get them to be as good a quarterback as he believes Dart can be. Now ultimately we're going to find out and if David's wrong and if Mel's wrong and Allen's wrong, they'll move on with their lives. If Dable and Shane are wrong, they're out of jobs, all right? So that's where they decided to do so. All this garbage, all these other ancillary reasons why that people are coming up with on social media is not the answer. The answer is they looked at the quarterback and didn't want him. And ultimately they'll look the fool if he becomes the next Patrick Mahomes and Dart becomes the next Browning Nagel. We're going to find that out. But they're the ones that have the job on the line and I saw them high fiving each other and so they feel like they got it right and we're going to find Out.

[Alan Hahn]

And also we've been saying this. I mean, it's lying season, okay? And lying season is all about trends. One person is hot, everyone's talking about them. Five minutes later, everyone's talking about someone else. There was a period early on in lying season when the guy was Shador Sanders. Don. The pace wasn't right. He was hot too early. The trend, everything trended. Jackson Dart. This is not the first time we've seen this, guys, where the name early is not the name at the end. And I'm not saying this isn't based on research and stuff, guys, but I do think that these people at the end of the day are human beings. And when you see the person next to you, you're like, you know, I was gonna get the. I was gonna get the black Benz. And then you get to the dealership and the other couple there, they keep eyeing the white Benz. You're like, you know what? The white Benz is kind of nice. Why is everyone interested in the white Benz?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Very interesting how you used black and white.

[Alan Hahn]

Yeah. By the way, terrible example given the conversation, like doing that on purpose. Hey, well, let's not forget Cam Ward's the number one pick overall. All right? But you know what I'm saying, I think those trends are real and I think their teams start to get off of one and get onto another. That does happen. And I'll say this about Shador Sanders. I think Shador Sanders is a bit of a project. And I think the Dion thing for people is if he was an absolute no brainer, Jaden Daniels, quarterback, people would hold their nose at the Deion thing, no question.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Yep.

[Alan Hahn]

I think it's a little different if you're like, well, he's got some intangibles, but he needs a lot of work. Oh, but during that work, we're going to have his dad talking every Saturday after Colorado games. I think that in combination of. Where Shadors at as a player, Don. I think that combo with Dion is. It doesn't jive.

[Don La Greca]

The only way that that comes into play for me is that if I'm Shane or Dable is. Is that if it's a tie, I like them both the same. But you know what? I think I can work with dart more than having all the ancillary stuff with the. With Dion's son if he's not playing and all that. But obviously, if you take the better quarterback and you deal with everything else, I can't speak for everybody. And that's the way that I would handle it. And I would think with jobs on the line and everybody passed on him, he's. He. We thought it was a Hail Mary and it turned out to be fact. He is. He's still available to be picked in day two. It's pretty incredible. I don't think anybody thought that a couple of weeks ago. Vinnie, Staten island, you're on ESPN New York.

[D]

What's up, guys? How are you?

[Peter Rosenberg]

How's everybody doing?

[Don La Greca]

Good.

[D]

I just want to know if the jets and the Giants are both coherent or they were sniffing something in that locker room. What the hell did the jets do? The jets had a stud tight end, a stud wide receiver staring in them in the face, and they pick a right tackle as a number three pick, you can get a right tackle in the third, fourth or fifth round.

[Peter Rosenberg]

You have Teator McMillan and the tight.

[D]

End from Penn State. They haven't had a tight end in.

[Alan Hahn]

I don't know how long.

[D]

They're out of their minds, the jets and what the Giants did. Another pass rusher, please. When do pass rushes? When do pass rushes win games for you? Jackson Garner.

[Don La Greca]

Vinnie. Vinnie. Vinnie. Vinnie. Vinnie. Vinny, if I say it one more time, I'm going to punch this microphone. V, thanks for the call. 1-800-919-3776. Jake in South Brunswick, you're on ESPN.

[Peter Rosenberg]

New York to break down the Vinnie call.

[Don La Greca]

Guys, I'm so happy.

[D]

I'm so happy you took me after that call.

[Alan Hahn]

You can't lose.

[D]

People love being miserable. Don, I thought of you this morning. I'm listening to the morning show.

[Alan Hahn]

I go to bed last night.

[D]

I'm a big Giants fan. I'm born in 1995.

[Alan Hahn]

I'm 29 years old.

[D]

I've been a fan since 05. People love being miserable. I don't understand. We got arguably the best player in the draft with Abdul Carter. He was. Him and Hunter were 1A and 1B, and the Giants got their quarterback. Why are people so miserable? I listened to the morning show this morning, and Dave's going, yeah, but. Yeah, but. Yeah, but, dude, we haven't had anything to celebrate.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Dave wasn't happy.

[D]

God knows it didn't sound like it. I turned him right off. I got so upset because for somebody. Just listen. And I listened to Dave and he said, I like it, but what if the season goes off the rails and then we're calling for Jackson Dart? What does it matter? We got the quarterback that he's not going to play this year.

[Don La Greca]

There's always a what if, right? I mean, Cam Ward may turn out to be a bust, right? All of these guys. Nobody wins the draft until you find out how these guys play. But. But, you know, I had to move on.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Can we just correct something like, guys, play, play. Dave's reaction from this morning, because I don't. I don't think he was negative.

[Don La Greca]

The Giants did what you hope they would. Do you believe that Abdul Carter is going to be an absolute stud. He's now on your team, and you got the quarterback that they wanted, right? Whether you like Shador better. I like Shador better. I liked Art. It doesn't matter. This is who Dable wanted. And you gave up two threes. One of the threes. This year's three is a comp pick, and it wasn't even your better three. And then you gave up a three for next year. So I don't know how you could.

[Alan Hahn]

Be a fan of the Giants and wake up this morning and not be pleased about it, but I think it's.

[Don La Greca]

A great day as a fan of the Giants. And you know what the sad thing is? And the truthful thing is I haven't had a lot of those days recently, so it feels good.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That sounds pretty positive to me.

[Don La Greca]

No, I did not hear that, but I did hear him be positive. But I also heard him being, you know, cautious, which is okay, too, because we don't know they didn't win a game. You know, it's tangible. The Knicks won a game. They're up two games to one. But we don't know who won or lost in this draft until. So I can. And I can understand with the pain that the Giants have put him through in recent years, why he'd be a little apprehensive. But obviously the base of that is. Is joy.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And it should be, I need to break down that Vinnie call. Like, I feel like there's a lot.

[Don La Greca]

Well, there's one thing that he said that might have been the dumbest thing that will be said today. I don't care why, really.

[Alan Hahn]

Honestly, I. After the first one, I went, all right, we could have a conversation about the jets pick. Sure. That is a. I think there is a conversation to be had there. And then he got to the Giants pick and I went, well, you know.

[Don La Greca]

Let'S go ahead and take a break. When we come back, I'm going to tell you. I'm going to tell you what the dumbest thing that was said today. And it's in. It's only quarter to four.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Right.

[Don La Greca]

We're early, but I guarantee you no.

[Peter Rosenberg]

One will say anything Dumber it will.

[Don La Greca]

Be the dumbest thing said on Friday, April 25 oh what a day.

[Alan Hahn]

And remember, we only have till 6 o'clock today.

[Don La Greca]

That's right. Well, I'm saying you can go to places where people are dumb, people hang out and they won't say anything as dumb as what Vinnie said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's see if anybody can outdone that.

[Alan Hahn]

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[Don La Greca]

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[Alan Hahn]

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[Don La Greca]

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[Don La Greca]

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[Peter Rosenberg]

I don't know if you knew this.

[Don La Greca]

But anyone can get the Same premium wireless for 15amonth Plan that I've been enjoying.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It's not just for celebrities, so do.

[Don La Greca]

Like I did and have one of your assistant's Assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for three.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee, full terms at Mint Mob thanks for listening to the Don Han and Rosenberg podcast.

[Alan Hahn]

I didn't listen to anything you just said.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Catch the show on demand whenever you want. Just subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Don La Greca]

Game Time is brought to you by Tell Mordu Irish Whiskey because when it's game time.

[Peter Rosenberg]

It'S.

[Don La Greca]

The Mets start a series with a national with coverage immediately following this show on 880 at 6:05 Yankees are back in action. They're home against the Blue Jays at 7:05. The Devils are home facing the Hurricanes in Game 3 of their series at 8 with Carolina up two games to none. NFL Draft Day 2 coverage on 10:50 will begin at 6:00 and then be on 8:80 after the Mets game. Tullamore do the original triple distilled, triple blended and triple cast matured Irish Whiskey. Be sure to grab a Tullamore Du or try the new Tullamore Dew Honey during tonight's action, glasses up to enjoying Tullamore Du responsibly. I had mentioned to you that the dumbest thing you'll hear today was said just moments ago here on Don Hahn and Rosenberg and in my opinion, this is the dumbest thing said today. The dumbest thing said today is when he said, when was the last time an edge pass rusher won you a game? Yeah, that was like colossally dumb. That's like I never watched football dumb. That's. I never. I've never watched anything dumb. So that's when I had to finally move on from him.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Because yeah, that comment was the I'm just calling in to to yell and scream like whenever I whenever we get a caller that rips both teams, it tells me he's not a fan of.

[Don La Greca]

Either team or just is a pessimistic just everything disguised.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Which team are you a fan of though? Because why do you like why do you care what the Giants did if you're a Jets fan? Why do you care what the jets did if you're a Giants fan? You don't care.

[Don La Greca]

Shouldn't.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Why would you so fired up?

[Alan Hahn]

You've never he's never watched a football game. Let's just make it very obvious you never watched a football game where your team was Trying to protect a lead. And the edge rusher sacked the quarterback, forced a fumble and ended the game. Never, never seen it before.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Did you miss the Super Bowl a couple of years ago when Aaron Donald said, ring me because he shut the game down in one play or three straight plays?

[Alan Hahn]

He's never seen it.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Logic would tell you. I know nobody watches the Super Bowl.

[Don La Greca]

No, logic would tell you that if the most important thing in the NFL is the play of the quarterback, then you think that the second most important thing or it's equal would be stopping that quarterback from doing his job.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Already put too much air into this. Come on.

[Don La Greca]

But I wanted to point it out because Nancy told a joke like 20 years ago and it's still one of the funniest things I've ever heard. It's not blue, but it's not appropriate, so I'm not gonna repeat it. And it's like I said, it must be nice to know that that's the funniest thing you've ever said. It'll never get funnier than that. And for Vinnie, it'll never get dumber than that. So I guess it's nice to know that you reached your peak on something and he did.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Let's find something more positive because I'll tell you what, for Fraud Friday, like, I'm finding a lot. Like when you said dumb things are being said. I'm running into a lot of dumb things right now. And some of the stuff I'm looking over.

[Don La Greca]

Oh, I like it. Yeah, we got that coming up at 4:30. Fraud Friday. But you want positive, right? Request. You made a request, Matt. And Merrick's positive. You're on espn. You are.

[D]

I appreciate that. Then that makes me feel good. Thanks, guys. What's going on?

[Peter Rosenberg]

Tapping him out.

[D]

Yeah. Good. So, yeah, I'm actually gonna give you guys a hard time. I remember a few months back I called up about that Pete Alonzo, Juan Soto doesn't sound too crazy anymore. Right. I remember I was. I was giving you guys a hard time about the contract and how I thought Alonzo was gonna kind of get off to the hotter start. So I gotta. I gotta get myself some flowers there.

[Peter Rosenberg]

That's a good call by you, Matt. That's a good call.

[D]

Yeah, I just. I had to give myself some love, you know, show myself some confidence. But I wanted to talk about the. The Jackson Dart, you know, edition. I think it's a really good pick and I kind of wanted to make a comparison. I think you guys might enjoy this. Just especially you, Alan, from Being a basketball guy, I kind of almost feel, and I want to, I really want to hear you guys opinion on this. I kind of almost like the SEC to quarterbacks is almost kind of like New York City to really great point guards are really great guards in the NBA. And I think there was so much great marketing and advertising and promotion for Sanders that you really got to give them credit. Like just the whole camp, like Deion Sanders, that whole team. There was so much great advertising and marketing that I think viewers kind of got caught up in the hype. But then when push came to shove, when you looked at dart stats from last year, he literally led the SEC in passing arts. So I think when, you know, push came to shove, I think all the scouts probably got together and they were like, yeah, like there's this really, you know, fancy, you know, player in Shador with all the, you know, the fancy marketing and advertising and all the things that come with it. But on the other hand, this guy led the sec. Like, we would almost be crazy to not draft the quarterback who literally led the best conference in college football. And I think if you want to make that comparison to basketball, it would almost be like back in the day when, you know, Marbury, Sebastian, Telfair, Rod Strickland, like, yeah, maybe those guys aren't hall of Famers, but you know what you're going to get. You know, you're going to get a guy that's going to average, you know, double digits in the NBA. He's going to be a good point guard. Yeah, maybe he won't. Like I said, maybe he won't go to the hall of Fame, but you know what you're getting. And I think that's what ended up happening was like, yeah, we could get Sanders, but we don't really know what we're getting. Or we could draft darts and we know exactly what we're getting. What do you guys.

[Peter Rosenberg]

What do you guys simplify it for you? Matt, the SEC is basically, as Peter would say, the NFL. Ajs, Right. It's like, it's like the G League of the NFL.

[Alan Hahn]

It's close.

[Peter Rosenberg]

And so you're talking about him going up against defensive players who are going to be in the league, and he lit everybody up. And so you could say he, you know, like, this guy's got NFL goods where we've seen some quarterbacks come out of different places, whether it's the pack, which doesn't exist anymore, even in, in some of the, you know, where Josh Allen came from, Wyoming. What the hell's that. So there, there's a lot of who's he going up against? So are his numbers skewed because he's not really playing against anybody good? You know, Daniel Jones was in the acc. There's nobody good in the ACC except for Clemson. So I think that's what you use as sort of your measure of who's he going up against. He's going up against dudes that are.

[Don La Greca]

Going to be in the league, right. But he also has guys on his team that are really good too. Like that balances it out. Like in Wyoming, Josh Allen probably didn't have NFL caliber players on his offense.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Throwing to electricians and plumbers yet still made it work.

[Don La Greca]

So believe me, they're looking at it at a different prism than we're looking at it. But still, I, I definitely get his point and it's good. Good to be positive.

[Peter Rosenberg]

Thanks for listening to the Don Hahn and Rosenberg podcast. I don't want to know how the sausage is made, but I just want to know it's good. Hear more of Don Allen and Peter weekday afternoon starting at 3 on 8 80, ESPN, the ESPN New York app and your smart speakers.